LPRC - CrimeScience Episode 34 – The Importance of Innovation and Continuous Improvement Ft. Tony D’Onofrio

Episode Date: November 14, 2019

In this episode, Tony D’Onofrio (TD Insights) joins co-hosts Dr. Read Hayes (LPRC) and Tom Meehan (CONTROLTEK) to discuss LP/AP issues and opportunities, how to use and better leverage LPRC, what’s coming up for TD Insights, and more. The post CrimeScience Episode 34 – The Importance of Innovation and Continuous Improvement Ft. Tony D’Onofrio appeared first on Loss Prevention Research Council.

Hi everyone, welcome to Crime Science. In this podcast, we aim to explore the science of crime and the practical application of the science for loss prevention and asset protection practitioners, as well as other professionals. Co-host Dr. Reid Hayes of the Loss Prevention Research Council and Tom Meehan of ControlTech discuss a wide range of topics with industry experts, thought leaders, solution providers, and many more. On today's episode, Tony D'Onofrio of TD Insights joins our co-hosts to discuss LPAP issues and opportunities, how to use and better leverage LPRC membership, what's coming up for TD Insights, and much more. We would like to thank Bosch for making this episode possible. Be a leader in loss prevention by implementing integrated solutions that enhance safety, reduce shrink, and help to improve merchandising, operations, and customer service. Bosch integrated security and communication solutions span zones one through 4 in the LPRC's Zones of Influence, while enriching the customer experience and delivering valuable data to help increase retail profitability.

Learn more by visiting Bosch online at boschsecurity.com. All right, welcome everybody to another episode of Crime Science, the podcast. everybody to another episode of Crime Science the podcast broadcasting here from Gainesville Florida made possible by the LPRC and then the University of Florida team as well today my co-host Tom Meade and I are joined by Tony D'Onofrio and we're gonna spend some quality time today with Tony getting an idea about how he thinks, what he's thinking, and what he's hearing, and then again, what he's thinking about what he's hearing. So with no further ado, thank you, Tony, for joining us today on Crime Science. Thank you very much.

Great pleasure to be here in Florida and spending time with you. So I'm looking forward to another great session here. Fantastic. And by the way, we have spent, well, we spent 90 minutes this morning planning a strategy following what we talked about yesterday afternoon and evening over dinner. So, and we got to spend some quality time on the University of Florida campus visiting some engineering colleagues. And then we're heading back over after this podcast to visit with some more engineering colleagues as well. So let me go over to you, Tom. And what are your sort of initial thoughts?

What do you want to ask Tony D'Onofrio? Well, first, Tony, thanks for joining the podcast. I know the listeners are going to love to hear you speak. Thank you very much, Tom. I appreciate the time. I think I probably have a couple of questions that lead into other questions, but you have a unique background and I've had the pleasure of hearing you speak many times over the years. And, you know, I know that we connect all the time on some future things, but can you give the listeners kind of, you know, I know that we connect all the time on some future things, but can you give the listeners kind of, I know this is a big question, an overview of your career and how you got to where you are. And I'm obviously intrigued by your brand building potential and

the fact that you have 160,000 followers on LinkedIn and you're kind of the innovation voice of retail. So can you give let's just kind of an overview of your history and where you've been and how you got to here? Thank you, Tom. That's an interesting question. So my history has been all about really continuous learning and continuous improvement. I started out my career actually in a retail store working for a retailer and that's how I fell in love with the retail industry. Then moved up to, of all things, selling computers and cash registers in the retail stores at that time with NCR.

And then finally was discovered by Sensormatic and ended up in the security space, initially looking at point-of-sale security. But throughout that journey, I was always looking for ways to differentiate and innovate and how you get clear messages to the market. And I was a big fan of figuring out where that next trend is, what are the disruptive future of retail looks like. And it's all about motivation. So to be candid for this audience, really how I started building a personal brand is because one day I did not get a promotion that I wanted from one of my companies. And I decided that technology really is allowing you to differentiate yourself to where the future is because you really now have your fingertips, all kinds of knowledge and information that you can instantly access and then build a brand around it.

So for me, it started with blogging and then moved on to social media. And what I found out is there is a passionate audience out there and the audience is worldwide that really likes to understand or is looking to understand what are those key trends and where are those trends going. And that's how the journey got going. And actually, I had planned this to be my retirement gig, which is roughly about eight to 10 years from now. And I've decided that that retirement gig needed to start earlier, just based on all the requests that I was getting from the industry to actually focus more on innovation. And now I'm spending time in Silicon Valley and here at the Loss Prevention Research Council

helping guide some of this innovation going forward. Thank you. Thank you for that. I was going to ask Tony, you know, what are some of the issues and opportunities you're seeing right now? What are you hearing from the technology companies now? What are you hearing from the technology companies, but what are you hearing from the retailers themselves, both the operators, the merchants in the business, as well, of course, those that are trying to protect and enable those businesses, the LPAP executives? Well, the key things that I'm hearing is, first of all, retail is being disrupted. It's not going out of business.

All the hype about the retail apocalypse is just that, hype. Retail is not going out of business. And if you look at it on a global scale, it's going to be a $23 trillion market by 2022. And we'll continue to grow primarily because new markets are constantly open everywhere around the world. And it's easier and easier to get to those markets provided you have the right technology and innovation strategy to figure out how to increase the value of your brand. So what retailers are trying to figure out is how do I create a brand loyalty with consumers

and how do I build on that brand loyalty in terms of creating what I call brand ambassadors both on the consumer side and also on the associate side so and that's really what they're trying to figure out and what I'm seeing is technology isn't a labeler and one of the reasons again I'm here at the loss prevention research council one of the reasons, again, I'm here at the Loss Prevention Research Council, one of the ironing of everything that I'm seeing is loss prevention really has had some core technologies that are driving now the future of retail, with video being the greatest example, where the camera today is really a wealth of information that will continue to increase with artificial intelligence and machine learning and will lead to those tight brand

ambassadors between the retailer and the consumer. So for me, it's about figuring out which are the primary technology we need to focus on and how do we help retailers address both the red shoppers and the green shoppers on a go-forward basis. Excellent. So you mentioned the red and green shopper. Tell us a little bit about the concept, how that helps you and others think about the issues that we've got and how we want to handle those issues. So the red and green shopper is an interesting concept for me, and I'm using it more and more after I picked it up actually here at the Loss Prevention Research Council.

And the reason for that is that technology to me is on a collision course with the other, the negative side of technology, which is shrink or people stealing or doing bad things in both physical and online. So there's a collision course that you're seeing in terms of these new technologies allowing consumers to be highly empowered and really shape their own shopping journey as they walk through stores. Whereas on the other side, how do we maintain friction so the red shopper doesn't actually steal from you? And so from my perspective is you actually have to work at both. You actually cannot just focus on the red shoppers

and drive up the friction because that actually is now creating barriers for those green shoppers who actually engage with the brand and buy more for the brand so you got to get to a balance and to me the key variable that gets you that balance is technology and technology is going to allow to do both so the more data, the more IoT connections that you make, the more you link into loyalty apps, the more you actually do tracking with the support of the consumer, and actually the consumer buying into that tracking because they're getting value, the more you're going to create, again, very strong brand loyalty, which is critical for retail to thrive into the future. Excellent. So have you seen any retailers starting to adopt the concepts to think about these things

in that way that a person who's there to do good and a person that's there to do harm, that there is that interaction and that affecting one can affect both and really vice versa. Well, there are actually some very good brands out there, and I've had the pleasure to actually spend quality time with a lot of the leaders, especially in the security space of those brands. Some of the ones that come to mind are big companies like Walmart. Walmart really has turned around their business and is going in the direction of omnichannel. A few years ago, it was all about Amazon really putting Walmart and others and challenging them in terms of the business model.

You don't see that talk anymore because Walmart has really stepped up their digital game and is driving innovation. There's all kinds of other examples. I don't want to leave a lot of retail out, but Nike's another one that comes to mind. If I look at Nike's flagship store in New York, it's all about consumer experience and it's all about how you make it easier for that shopper to engage both digitally and physically, and then having very strong ambassadors engage with that consumer. And those ambassadors, by the way, are doing two things. One, they are giving you value in terms of a positive experience, but at the same time, they're addressing the red side of the business

because all that attention is going to basically allow you to do less opportunity to actually do the bad things in retail stores. And there's all kinds of other examples from around the world. And those are just two that are from the United States. So again, I don't want to leave retailers out. And what I'm seeing by spending quality time with the retailers is that there are opportunities out there. It's really prioritizing where to put the focus to drive the optimal value. That's good stuff. And, you know, maybe, Tony, you could share a little bit about some of our discussions this morning. We talked about it's a fine balance, delicate balance that we're trying to achieve. And that's really what a big part of what we're

doing at UF, doing at the LPRC, to fine-tune this to help the retailer, whether they're a fuel station or a C-store, they're an auto parts retailer, they're a department store, they're an online merchant or whatever, all the different spaces that we work in. But it's that delicate balance between discouraging the red shopper, the bad guy, somebody that's here to hurt or harm somebody or someplace, and delighting the red shopper, the bad guy, somebody that's here to hurt or harm somebody or some place, and delighting the green shopper, the good shopper? How do we apply friction here and reduce friction there? Any thoughts around that? Yeah, actually, very good discussion this morning. And I think it's a good foundation for the new Innovate Center that's been open here at

LPRC at the University of Florida, because I do think that is the future ofate Center that's been opened here at LPRC at the University of Florida, because I do think that is the future of creating modules that can be disseminated to the key individuals within a retail environment to actually drive value. And what we talked about this morning is how do you find those hot areas in the stores, such as examples at the exits and entrances and on the self-checkout area. How do you find those hot areas? And how do you do both attack the red issues in terms of making sure that you actually protect the value of the assets that are being purchased? And by the way, increase safety for the employees and for customers in those key areas. for the employees and for customers in those key areas.

So focus on safety and also making sure that, again, secure transactions are very important in those areas. But on the other hand, those are also areas where you can engage with that green shopper and create the light and, by the way, increase profitability. To me, those two forces are not necessarily opposite to each other. You can increase safety and decrease shrink, while at the same time create these green experiences that drive more brand engagement. And we also explored concepts of, for example, how the new technology can actually be leveraged to engage the new shoppers, the millennials, which are more open to engaging with these new visual technology.

They're not as close to, for example, the whole value to privacy formula, which is very important to retail going forward. No, it's a great discussion. And stay tuned. Some of the projects that we've got underway or planned or are being suggested even here to the LPRC Innovate team and the research team to understand and help retailers and their manufacturer partners, the product partners, the merchandise partners, to do just what you're talking about, to engage both, but have that fine line. But those technologies, those tactics that we deploy to discourage the

red shopper, the bad guy, are there ways that we can make them more palatable and even maybe entertaining or engaging in a positive way, like you said, for the green shoppers so that he or she say, hey, you know what, this is actually kind of cool or this is helpful in another way, or you know what, I appreciate it because of this technology or tactic when I came here what I came for was on the shelf or when I went through self checkout I felt like my data was secure and this was pretty quick easy and actually interesting transaction and then finally myself and my loved ones we we felt pretty safe and secure here and in the parking lot in, in the building space.

We didn't feel like ourselves or our data were going to be compromised or negatively affected. So good discussion. Yeah, those are very good comments, Reid. such as virtual reality, augmented reality, and allow key shareholders or stakeholders within a retail establishment to get knowledge quicker. The key is, and again, why I like the Laws Prevention Research Council is experimenting and fast-failing and figuring out what are the optimal ways to, for example, using technology to create optimal brand ambassadors in the associates, in the store management, so they actually have a deep engagement with that consumer

when they walk into the store. And this is a perfect environment where you can experiment with both the negative and the positive. How do you deal with the red shopper when they come in as a brand ambassador, associate, or store manager, and vice versa? How do you deal with the red shopper when they come in as a brand ambassador, associate or store manager, and vice versa? How do I deal with that same person when it's a VIP customer and a very important customer? How do I make sure that they have that unique experience that allows them to then go online and say, this is the best brand that I've ever shopped at. You really need to know about it. So we're in this world now that the more you can create these experiences that can go viral, the more you're going to build brand value, the more you're going to have loyal followers basically engage with your brand. Yeah, good stuff. And I think today,

as we go through more brainstorming, and then here at LPRC Innovate in our ideation and simulation and MR spaces and so forth. But then on campus, on main campus with engineering colleagues particularly, we'll be working with colleagues that are specialized in eye tracking and shimmer usage to understand what are the eyes and other body, you know, reactions telling us and how does that correlate with what they're verbally telling us or we're seeing on video and things like that to better understand the responses to different tactics and technologies by the green and red shopper. And so we can look at outcome measures like sales changes and by type, by skew and all

that. measures like sales changes and by type by SKU and all that but at the same time what are the responses from these people from the legitimate and illicit place users telling us as well with multiple measures so I'm looking forward to the balance of today and and continue these discussions so you know what are your thoughts on that how do we continue to build but really affect and help our retailer and other brand members here at LPRC? Well, one of the things that excited me when I came here the last couple times is that really what the Loss Prevention Research Council is really part of an ecosystem that's growing here at the University of Florida in terms of focused on innovation. And to me, that's how these big problems get solved. It's not really getting isolated into a small group and into a room,

and all of a sudden you get the eureka moments. It's having a lot of different people. And one of the pleasures for me yesterday was meeting Dr. Eric in the engineering department and actually understanding that he's talking about the same kind of things. He actually has a presentation coming up talking about digital transformation and how digital is really, how do you empower a workforce as all this digital technology gets implemented. So similar issues from different perspectives. So similar issues from different perspectives. Leveraging all that knowledge base and creating unique solutions, accelerating how they get tested, how to figure out which are the top two to three that you need to bubble to the surface.

And then having that wealth of retailers that LPRC has access to really is a magic formula. It's now about execution and getting those retailers really engaged broader. Because I do fully believe exactly what I said a few seconds ago. Loss prevention has had some core technology that really has driven the future of retail. I do think this is an opportunity to transform the loss prevention function and actually have it become much more valuable for a retail organization because they have core technologies that can actually drive a lot what some of that green shopper is doing, and they will continue. And by the way, at the same time, they'll address some of the red shopper issues. Yeah, that's good stuff. And you'll see that in 2020, the impact theme, we've already got it. And that is a community gets results. And the idea of the community you were just describing, and

we've got 70 major retail chains in the United States, Australia, Europe, Canada, and beyond. And we are working together with 80 technology companies, the leading technology companies in this space. And we've got law enforcement executives and we've got transport executives and the shopping center executives. And like you said, key academic researchers, faculty that are focused, that's how we get the results that make a difference. And particularly in these commercial areas that we're working on right now to better protect people in places. And in order to do something that's ethical in that way, it's the right thing to do. But also it enables those businesses to be successful, employ people, serve the community. You know, these things are connected.

Yeah, Drew, just to support what you said, one final comment from me is that to me, it's all about the value to privacy equation. The future is going to be a lot more where I'll know exactly what you're doing but that can get scary but it doesn't get scary if I'm getting a lot of value and I'm allowing you I'm giving up this much privacy because you're giving me a lot of value so that's really the balance that retail has to figure out and I do think it's possible to actually get to a place where I'm getting a lot of brand engagement I'm allowing this much I'm giving up this much privacy but in return I'm getting product customization I'm getting the ability to

participate in special events I had have everyone else I'm getting this special treatment that I get because I perceive a lot of value from you as the retailer. And that's really the balance that we're on. And it's places like this at the LPRC where you can figure out exactly where that balance needs to be and what are the key technologies that are more important going forward. Well, in a quick example there, Tony, let's look at driving an automobile in the United States or anywhere in the world it's that balance the value is i can transport myself or be transported by somebody but in return i'm going to have a license plate on the front and or back of my vehicle that clearly identifies who i am i have a vehicle identification number in the dashboard or you know viewable through the windshield then i've

got a driver's license um and now i've got rfID so I can go through tolls and not have to stop and burn up fuel and pollute the earth and things like that. I'm getting value, but I'm giving up an incredible amount of privacy or at least putting it there. So to us, we're separating two issues that are interconnected, but they're different constructs. And one is, morally, we are obligated to safeguard vulnerable people. We are here to provide an amazing and satisfactory experience. But at the same time, everybody's going to have to give up something here. And so, fine, we're generating new data sets, but let's work on how to protect the data better, but not at the expense of not collecting that data to safeguard and to serve. That's correct. That's exactly where all this is headed.

And really, there are some folks that are really worried about this kind of future, but to me it's exciting because if you shape it right, you actually are going to really almost metamorphose into a new way of doing retail because ultimately to me retail is not going out of business. It's got a ton of opportunities. You just got to play in the right place at the right time. There you go. Well, so it's not the Reed and Tony show totally, Tom. So if I might go over to my valuable colleague, Tommy and Tom, What are some of your thoughts, questions for Tony?

I think most of the key points you guys spoke about, so it was very good. I enjoy listening just as well as the listeners. I do have a question specific to the value and privacy equation. A lot of asset protection technologies are perceived as invasive. So whether it be facial recognition, GPS tracking, MAC address tracking. Tony, can you give the listeners kind of your point of view on how you may go about some tips or advice on how to overcome those things? So I do think those technologies are still in what I call the emerging stage. They need to do a – my point of view is retail needs to do a better job of defining the value proposition of those technologies. Hiding behind the fact that you're using it and not making it public is actually making it worse.

So to me, you actually have to step up and clearly declare what the value proposition is and drive up the value in terms of what I'm going to get out of these technologies going forward. Increasing friction without the consumer on the other side perceiving that they're getting value out of it is a recipe for the negativity. I do think loss prevention has had some challenges in technology that really has not kept up fast enough to the way consumers are changing on a go-forward basis. So, for example, the smartphone now is the third megatrend that is really driving the consumer being in control of the shopping journey. Security interacting with the smartphone still has a lot of work to do

to figure out what those next generation of solutions are going to look like that allows the consumers to engage with that shopper. And some of those solutions will involve the actual consumer giving up more privacy, but loss prevention has got to help the rest of the organization figure out what value I'm going to give you as a consumer for me to let you do more, how we're going to get to the right level. And I think that's possible, but we need to have much more open conversations as industry groups,

including the LPRC and others, to make sure that we all engage to getting that green shopper to accept with us this journey to minimize the red and focus more on the green. And Tom, I'll add, if I could, this morning in discussing just what you brought up, which is great. We talked about, and I won't name the retail chain, but as we were testing these EPVMs, Enhanced Public View Monitors, and of course the enhancement, those long-time listeners we've got will know we're enhancing some crime prevention or suppression treatment. And the enhancement is we're trying to help the would-be offender notice it, recognize it, and positively respond to it, it get it fear it right that it's not

something they want to mess with or they don't want to commit their crime here and now um and so in looking at these epvms uh through time and now it's probably 10 years ago that our team developed those uh that are now commonly in use so in putting them in test in testing we're looking at outcome differences in stores or areas that got them versus those that didn't, but a lot of qualitative insight, looking at video footage of the behavior around these treatments and interviewing people and so on. What we found was the younger the customers that were interacting with them, the more accepting they were. And we saw a lot of interesting behaviors they were using the epms

to fix their makeup to style their hair they were dancing they were taking selfies of selfies with them and they are engaging and interacting with something that's there to dissuade a would-be criminal offender but uh and and it's designed to enable the good shopper because the stuff still there hadn't been stolen so that's an example i, I think, of what you and Tony are talking about. I would agree. And to me, it's all about how do you increase visual returns with technology and address both, provide positives and negatives to red and green. And that's really what you've got to get to going forward.

My other question, similar but a little bit different here, is you spoke a little bit about generations and the way different generations and millennials shop. One of the things I see often is, and I call it the keeping up with the Joneses effect, where retailers are literally throwing technology in to try to keep up with a competitor. And that sometimes, that digital experience for the shopper is not conducive to asset production. It certainly could be conducive to the red shopper making things more available, making it a much more user-friendly experience. What are some of the suggestions? And you alluded a little bit before to some – in some cases, the asset protection being behind.

is the asset protection behind, what are some of the suggestions you have for retail asset protection folks to really get ahead of some of those trends? What are your thoughts there? So to me, key thing for loss prevention is number one, they need to stop looking at just one area like the physical store and start looking holistically in terms of the entire shopping journey, both online and offline, and figuring out how do I add value to both of those. What I've seen from progressive loss prevention folks, they are embracing the omni-channel strategy.

And the omni-channel strategy to me is what retail is all about. It's not about shopping offline or online. It's really how do you blend the two, and there's opportunities for red shoppers in both areas. And so to me, loss prevention, what I've seen, the progressive ones have extended beyond just the physical stores, number one. Number two, I've also seen a lot of experimentation in terms of new technologies that decrease friction but also maintain security. Because I do think this friction, because of the value to privacy equation, is an important factor. How did you let a shopper shop but also create an environment through visual deterrents and other means that actually attack the problem.

So, and the experimentation and figure out where to optimize those tools is another positive area that I've seen progressive retailers doing. And I'll give you one example. Zara, for example, has moved self-checkout inside the fitting room. But in that fitting room, they actually allow the shopper to actually remove the hard tag. So that's a combination where I trust you as the shopper. By the way, you're going to pay before you actually remove the hard tag because they've integrated RFID technology as part of those hard tags.

So there's all kinds of technology ways that you can allow a shopper to engage and actually get to a better value as part of the journey. And then I guess my next question, which is certainly the one that I think is more your opinion, you're working with the LPRC, RILA, the loss prevention founder of the magazine, all of the industry publications and associations. If you had a suggestion about the future, what would be the focus? Someone new coming into the asset protection or someone that's been senior to it. If you could pick one thing of all the things you talk about what would you suggest we focus on so to me it's all about rationalizing introspecting into yourself and then rationalizing what

you're going to focus on going forward and for example my particular case I focus on three technologies right now I'm focusing on artificial intelligence applied to video I'm focused on face recognition. I'm focusing on artificial intelligence applied to video. I'm focused on face recognition. And I'm focused on GPS inside stores because I do think those technologies are going to increase in value in terms of what they're able to do on a go-forward basis, but both the negative and the positive shoppers that go on. I do think the publication and the industry groups that

are out there need to figure out how to step up and support the messaging to the broader industry that they're not just the negative side of retail, they're not just the organization that are trying to step all the red sharp, but they're actually trying to figure out how to add value to that shopping journey, how to help really engage those consumers and allow the retailer to grow profitability and attack some of the other issues. So to me, it's finding really broadening because I can tell you just from my personal experience, if you look at the IT companies and some of the information technologies, technology companies,

they tend to shy away from the red things or the people stealing because they don't fully understand how that works. And it's really the negative side of humanity. I do think the industry groups and the association and LPSC need to show that there is value in addressing the red because by addressing the red you're going to get more green literally more green Yeah, huge point and I think if you look at our at the research agenda, which we're shaping and the reason you're here and that We're talking to but mostly listening to all the parties all the members of this, you know LPRC to all the parties, all the members of this LPRC research and results community is what you're talking about. We want to understand what is important.

And the associates, the employees have been teased out today and part of your counsel, wise counsel here, Tony. We've always paid attention. We've always listened. We've always collected data around the three place users, right? The shopper, customer, of course, the associate employee, and then finally the red shopper, the bad actor. But maybe more and more emphasis on the person that's there to create the atmosphere

and to be efficient but to execute whatever is supposed to be executed there to create that experience, get more data from them, understand how we can enable them much, much more than we are right now. Yeah, just to support, read what you just said. In all my presentations, I state to the audience that the number one most important person in the retail world is the store associate, even more than the store manager. Store manager critical, yes, because they've got to run an efficient operation. But if that moment of truth is really when that store associate meets a consumer,

they can impact both the green and the red shopper when they meet. The more you create, again, this brand ambassador concept where they love your brand and they actually direct, engage, and show value because I'm part of the part I'm in I'm fully in in terms of the experience the more actually you're going to you you're going to again raise brand value and become more profitable going forward. Perfect Tom I know you got a couple more questions what do you got? I have two questions. One is related to I know you travel globally quite a bit. What are you seeing outside the U.S. that is a trend that either we should be following or that we're a little behind on specific to asset protection? So I will talk to both generality and also to asset protection.

So I will talk to both generality and also to asset protection. What I'm seeing is there's one market in the world that's doing really a ton of experimentation in terms of retail in general and where retail is going, and that's China. China has got both the negative and the positives in terms of where they're taking technology next. But on the positive side, they already have, for example, 500 million consumers that shop on a smartphone every month. That's more than the combined population of the U.S., U.K., and Germany combined. So they already have this digital, highly digital consumer. They do a ton of virtual pay, but they also do a ton of tracking. They're also deep into face recognition, and some of that they take to the extreme. So they have not found the right balance, but based on how they're structured, they're able to actually, the government handles

it differently. So I do think some of those trends in some of the parts of the world are going to come to places like the United States. And you're actually seeing, for example, I track every year the global top 250 retailers. What you're starting to see is it's not just Western markets that are contributing. You're starting to see Chinese companies coming into the mix, Russian companies, Eastern Europe. All of them are figuring out how to create these brand values. What I'm seeing is in these markets is that they're experimenting faster with some of these technologies around artificial intelligence, around machine learning, around facial recognition. Again, some of them countries, and it's not just China, I've seen it in the Philippines,

I've seen it in some parts of Europe, they're actually figuring out how to create these experiences where they're actually looking at information, like for example, to computer vision, figuring out where they actually bought that item or not bought that item. The example that I shared recently is that there are 13 or roughly less than 20 Amazon Go's live right now. But if you look at other parts of the world, there's over 500 of those types of stores already open in China. There's 23 in the Philippines. One of the examples that I used, there's multiple examples of those in Europe.

So there's a ton of experimentation. that i use there's multiple examples of those in europe so there's a ton of experimentation and computer vision is being used to go figure out what that shopper is doing from both the negative side and the green side thank you my last question is kind of often left we haven't talked a lot about it a lot today but what are your thoughts on cryptocurrency a fad a trend is it going to come in i know in europe there's a lot of retailers over 20,000 accepted today. What are your thoughts on it? I think cryptocurrency has got a place because I do think we're entering a world where security online or virtual or cybersecurity is going to become even more critical. And I do think cryptocurrencies are going to have a place.

and I do think cryptocurrencies are going to have a place. Still to be determined exactly how they evolve. I know there's a lot of concern, for example, how does a government control those types of currencies when they're virtual and really can cross barriers so easily. So all those things will need to be worked out over time, but I think they just become part of the mix. And the example, again, I'll go back to China. If you look at the way they actually engage with automated paying systems, Alipay, for example, from Alibaba,

extremely popular. And so they're all trying to figure out how to protect and how to encrypt and how to create ways to allow funds and activities to go global. So they'll play a role still early stages in terms of how it's going to finally evolve. Thank you again, Tony. That's all I have, Reed. All right. Well, excellent. I appreciate it, Tom. All right. Well, excellent. I appreciate it, Tom. And Tony, obviously, a very special appreciation for being here today with us, helping us and our community, our listeners think about and help generate the research that we need to get better and better and better at serving those that are choosing to work here and to shop here, and doing that by enabling

those activities so that we can more openly display, make it more interesting, exciting environments, and have the right merchandise ready when they're ready, and get them in and out of the store as rapidly as they might need to be at that time, and so forth. But we've got to do all this by suppressing the red shopper and keeping them away or getting them to do a U-turn if they start to enter the building or work there. So thanks so much for helping us think about this. And we look forward to continue conversation. Thank you, Reid and Tom. Really, I've enjoyed this conversation tremendously. To me, we're really at the beginning of a retail renaissance.

A lot of it driven by technology and the Loss Prevention Research Council, I know, will play a big role in this. And I'm looking forward to contributing. So thank you very much. All right. Thank you, Tony. Thank you, Tom. Thank you to our producer, Kevin Tran. Everybody have a great day.

Signing off from Gainesville, Florida. Thanks for listening to the Crime Science Podcast presented by the Loss Prevention Research Council and sponsored by Bosch Security. If you enjoyed today's episode, you can find more crime science episodes and valuable information at lpresearch.org. The content provided in the Crime Science Podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for legal, financial, or other advice. Views expressed by guests of the Crime Science Podcast are those of the authors and do not reflect the opinions or positions

of the Office of Prevention Research Council.