LPRC - CrimeScience Episode 35 – NRF and the Responsibility of Retail ft. Bob Moraca

Episode Date: December 5, 2019

In this episode of CrimeScience, Bob Moraca (NRF) talks about the National Retail Federation’s past, present, and future, as well as the responsibilities of retail, and more with co-hosts Dr. Read Hayes (LPRC) and Tom Meehan (CONTROLTEK). The post CrimeScience Episode 35 – NRF and the Responsibility of Retail ft. Bob Moraca appeared first on Loss Prevention Research Council.

Hi everyone, welcome to Crime Science. In this podcast, we aim to explore the science of crime and the practical application of the science for loss prevention and asset protection practitioners, as well as other professionals. Co-host Dr. Reid Hayes of the Loss Prevention Research Council and Tom Meehan of ControlTech discuss a wide range of topics with industry experts, thought leaders, solution providers, and many more. This week, Bob Maranca, NRF Vice President for Loss Prevention, joins us to discuss his role in NRF's research, initiatives, and programs, his thoughts on retail today, and where the industry is headed. We would like to thank Bosch for making this episode possible. Take advantage of the advanced video capabilities offered by Bosch to help reduce your shrink risk. Integrate video recordings with point-of-sale data for visual verification of transactions and exception reporting. Use video analytics for immediate notification of important AP-related events and leverage analytics metadata for fast forensic searches for evidence and to improve merchandising and operations. Learn more about extending your

video system beyond simple surveillance in zones one through four of LPRC's zones of influence by visiting Bosch online at boschsecurity.com. Welcome everybody to another episode of Crime Science the Podcast. Today, as always, I'm joined by my partner in crime here, Tom Meehan of Control Tech, longtime retail asset protection practitioner. And our special guest today is Bob Marocca from the National Retail Federation, NRF. And what we're going to do is spend some quality time with Bob here for the crime science audience talking about what's the NRF up to, where are they now, and where are they going to support the LPAP community in the incredible array of issues that are out there and the incredible speed at which these issues are morphing and changing. So, Bob, let me go to you and welcome to Crime Science. Thank you.

Well, thank you, Reed and team, for the opportunity. And Thomas, nice to talk to you again, too. A lot of exciting things going on. You know, this business, it's never the same day twice. So I'm excited to be part of the podcast and thank you for the opportunity. same day twice. So I'm excited to be part of the podcast and thank you for the opportunity. And I can only imagine, I think some of the things we'll talk about today with Tom and myself and you, and that would include, you know, what are you working on now? And just before we went on the air, you mentioned some of the issues that you're working on. Some of those things, of course, we're conducting some research on to support you all on these things in addition to the efforts that you all are making. But maybe let's go to that.

Let's start there, Bob. What are you mostly working on right now? Because I know you're working on a lot. Yeah, I can give a little rundown of what's kind of hot and what's not. We're here, you know, NRF Protect. 19, we were in Anaheim, California, a very successful event, a little over 2,500 attendees, and it's a great educational conference.

I know, Reed, you guys are there, and actually, I know, Reed, you presented on stage last year. But we already begin planning for 2020. So NRF Protect 2020 is on our radar and we're hopefully to open registration on or about November 1st. So we're getting together with our LP council. We're asking our members what's important, what's hot on their mind, what keeps them up at night. And we're creating, you know, this event is created by the LP professionals and the executives or the LP professionals at every level. And frankly, we're knee-deep in just really beginning

and looking for some brand names and brands to bring to the table. So that's kind of an ongoing thing. But one of the leftovers from last year is our National Retail Security Survey, one of the research tools that we create, was so well-received at Protect that by popular demand, we're going to be doing a webinar. We're going to release it in October. It will be just a half-hour, quick-hit version for those who maybe couldn't attend Protect

or want a different slant. We'll have to have an opening, and we'll have some dialogue there amongst three different vertical markets, executives from three different vertical markets. And so we're excited to kind of put that away. So we're moving forward on that program. You know, LP gets involved in so many different issues, you know, man-made disasters as well as natural disasters. So we're all coming off the first big hurricane of the year, Hurricane Dorian.

And when those things happen, I don't know if people realize how much retail gets involved and engaged with them, but we have a great working relationship with our partners at FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Administration. And they take the lead on these issues. But those storms impact any retailer who has, I call it just anyone in the path. So it's every vertical market, but if you've got, you're in the marketplace this time, you know, up the Florida coast into Georgia and the Carolinas, if you've got retail outlets or operations in those areas, you're going to be impacted. So FEMA does something interesting.

They have a whole lifelines program, and we work with them on these things. They also operate the National Business Emergency Operations Center so when we have a disaster they flip the switch and open that up and what that does that gives a seat at the table to any retailer anyone any of our NRF numbers or retailer who has is going to experience the storm. So of course retailers have their own programs and their own plans, emergency plans to protect as they set up and prepare and then the storm happens but that response is to get back in and re-entry of people and products and electricity and power that then gets turned over to this

partnership between FEMA and the retail, well, not just the retail community, all the business community. And that's where that operations, the National Emergency, the National Business Emergency Operations Center comes in that FEMA operates. They have a dashboard that's 24-7 available where you can post questions and get information. And then they have, like any other incident command, they have either one or two calls a day. Usually, if it's not too bad of a storm or not the storm of the century kind of thing, it's about 3 o'clock every day at Eastern Standard Time. They have a call. They listen, and they deal with things, issues.

So the recovery and reentry into those areas is the critical part you know most people most in most people most deaths and fatalities are caused by the aftermath of the storm not the storm itself it's usually drowning drowning and things like that people may get trapped in an area unfortunately so it's you know there's there's seven different areas that FEMA looks at but retail is paramount in four of those. Food, water, and sheltering, so certainly the food and water piece of it. Energy, we don't do power, but we're certainly in the fuels business, right,

with convenience stores and fuel operations. Transportation and logistics, that's us. And health and medical, I mean, our CVSs of the world and a lot of our grocery stores now have pharmacies in them. So how do you get products and things back into the communities? And we're part of that. It's a very robust program. I don't want to go into any more detail than that, but you can imagine every time there's either a natural disaster or a man-made disaster,

we're on that team. And people always see us that way, but we're there. And then more recent, unfortunately, the mass casualty events we've recently had, just looking at what happened in El Paso, at the Walmart down there, unfortunately, and then the shooting in Dayton, Ohio. You know, when those things take place, those issues themselves this year triggered 14 media requests from the NRF, and I am the spokesperson, the subject matter expert spokesperson,

on loss prevention, asset protection issues in retail. So actually, we did 14 interviews in a day and a half, which was, frankly, the most I've done over the last five years on a specific topic and issue, because I think it's political season and it's just such high-end tragic issues. So, you know, the reporters always want to know, what are retailers doing? So NRF, fortunately for us, I mean, and we've had this for some time now, and I would go back and explain how over a decade ago, NRF and the Department of Homeland Security got together and created emergency response protocols to active shooters based on the information that they have.

And then we helped put kind of this retail-specific supplement for retailers specifically. And it's basically a guideline. Here's the things you could and should be doing. And then each retailer obviously takes that, puts it into their own protocols and into their emergency standard operating procedures. But we talk in generalities about the industry and the things we do, about the training and all those pieces, to let the media folks know that this has been going on for over a decade. I know this emergency just happened, but these are drills going on. We work with the International Council of Shopping Centers because they have the same problems. We work in conjunction with them and all the different things that we do in the law enforcement networking that we do

to help respond and help communities. Remember, and I always tell them, the retailer is a victim too. We are victimized at the same time that we're now trying to empower and respond to the community's needs. So it's a double-edged sword for retailers, and we always answer the call. So, you know, I don't want to – I can go to a couple other things that we're doing, but I don't want to monopolize the time. But, you know, as you can see, we do those things over time. And then, really, just one more thing I wanted to add. We just hosted a – NRF just hosted the Department of Homeland Security here right in D.C. with a commercial facilities meeting for the retailers and what they call commercial facilities. And for them, commercial facilities are entertainment, gambling, lodging,

outdoor events, other public assembly, real estate, and retail and sports venues because those are all areas where people gather. We bring them in, we invite them in, and we don't always have kind of an open piece of that pie. So we had a whole meeting here at NRF. We hosted it for the DHS to talk about everything about terrorism and global risk and the mass violence, the shootings, cybersecurity issues, all kinds of the underbelly of society that we have to deal with as retailers

and keep our facilities secure and safe. That's awesome and very comprehensive. And I think that the way you touched on it, natural versus human-made disasters. Does that make sense? It totally makes sense, Bob. And the way you articulated the difference between natural and human-made disasters is right on target, it seems to me. natural and human-made disasters is right on target, it seems to me. And the fact that at NRF, you all are not only looking at the day-in and day-out things that need to be done with statutes and other legislation that we need to get better and better at protecting our locations and people,

but also looking at these spikes that occur. And a big point, too, that unfortunately, these active assailants or shooters or killers, it's not a brand new phenomenon. We've had this for at least a decade or more, but it just seems to spike. And so we're all trying to get better and better and better at it. And all that you're doing with your conferences. I wanted to ask you a very quick question about the Big Show. You touched on Protect as we wanted to, but Big Show is something that's for everybody in retail, not just APLP. But what's there at the Big Show, Bob, for the AP or LP person? Yeah, that's a great question.

Well, we have our loss prevention council meeting there at Protect, and then we do a nice dinner in conjunction with the D&D Daily right there in New York City because that's where that is. But that show is the largest, frankly, trade show in the nation. I think we sell out 38 hotels. We get over 40,000 attendees. We take over the entire Javits Center and surrounding venues. It's an incredible three and a half days, and frankly, it's been going on for over 50 years. But for LP specific,

you're going to find the technology. Well, Reid, you bring up a good point. You know, loss prevention asset protection professionals, we have to know the business. We have to be able to talk to our senior leadership from our CEO on down about what's important to them. So knowing what's important to them and then understanding enough to be able to converse with them. I always say if you get in the elevator with your CEO and he looks over at you and says, Reed, how are you doing today? And you have about a minute and a half in the elevator with him, you need to be able to talk to him about the things that are important to him and what you're doing to help him succeed overall in the corporation. So we can't just stay in that LP asset protection world. We need to understand business.

And later on in this, we'll talk a little bit about, you know, how loss prevention professionals can, what they can do to get better at that. So I look at the big show as anything and everything that's going on, all the digital new startups, innovative technology, robotics. I've seen 3-D printers there. I've tasted chocolate-covered crickets as a protein. Everything and anything is there at the big show. Any marketing idea, the speakers are always incredible. I know Paul Ryan is going to be speaking this year,

but we've had Bill Clinton himself, and we have every CEO from the major companies that you can imagine speak and talk about success and challenges. So if retail is in your DNA, I mean, that is the show to go to. Frankly, it's in mid-January this year, if you just Googled NRF Big Show, that's what it's been called forever. And this year, the title is 2020 Vision, kind of nice way to use the 2020 modicum. And frankly, it is really about the current and the future. We see the changing retail landscape moving to the digital world.

And frankly, you know, more online, a little less brick and mortar. But that combination is still a winning combination. So to go to that show, you'll see everything. a winning combination. So if you go to that show, you'll see everything. And again, it won't be LP specific, but you can look at it and figure where LP fits in and how you can help, especially on the cybersecurity side. It's an area that we're really growing. I love it, Bob. Know the big ecosystem, understand your business, your business within others, and now you can strategize, you can plan, you can execute. But like you're saying, a really neat point. You know what, if you got a minute or two to describe,

to tell your story, or to at least express your understanding of the company's story, and how you're going to enable and support that. I love it. That's awesome. Let me, Tom, let me go over to you. And what do you got for Bob Marocca of NRF? Well, first, thanks, Bob, for joining. Really great to talk to you. It feels like we only connect during events and these things. So it's always good to hear your voice. I have a question really about retail in general. You mentioned, you know, some of the terrible events that are occurring with after shooters and natural disasters. You also touched a little bit on technology. Can you give the

listeners a little bit of insight on what you're seeing in some of the evolutions that are occurring right now, whether they be technology related, people related? What do you see from the lens that you set behind in retail evolution right now? Yeah, Tom, it's a great question. You know, we're, I mean, we're, you know, LP specific issues, you know, you see some change over time, you know, article surveillance, it gets better, the digital cameras and you know AP cameras now everything's online and then the overlay of analytics video analytics you know I still think we're at the prep the beginning stages of implementing what I think is going to be a great tool for the future in facial recognition.

You know, I've been briefed enough by the companies who are on top of that and some of the companies that are beta testing things but not quite talking, you know, not talking out loud about them yet because of the privacy issues that are still concerns. But more and more you're seeing it used in casinos and the hospitality industry, airports, at the Super Bowl, at major events. And retailers are testing and utilizing it, and frankly, there's so many really good success stories that I'm obviously not going to say who and where, but a simple case of identifying a couple of suspects that are involved in

organized retail crime, hitting the retailer with a quick grab and run, and they identify these faces, they're matched up, and then they run that facial component through their entire system, find out that these cast of characters have been in, you know, 26 of their stores. And it turns out that they've taken this and working with law enforcement. And, you know, in the old days, you'd have to put out Ebola and talk to people. Did anybody see the white van and how about these three characters that look like this and dressed like this? And, you know, that technology, in a moment's notice, you run it, and in 10 seconds, you're getting back, well, look, across our system, these cast of characters have been in our stories so many times, then you can track back forensically and investigate, and the prosecutions are right there.

It's almost magical to see it take place. So I really think that's something on the cutting edge. It's almost magical to see it take place. So I really think that's something on the cutting edge. You know, analytics now, the really smart point-of-sale systems can talk to each other. They can do all that shift analysis and daily analysis right there in the cash register. You know, you can control things with who's using what register now with simple fingerprints so you know every transaction that's taking place, who did it, who's controlling the financials and the money at that time you know

controlling your assets in turn for the internal threat right for the internal misappropriations and things like that retailers have gotten better than at that it's funny the National Retail Security Survey has told us it's been around for 25 years but the last years, and I expect that will happen again next year, external crime has taken the place of internal threat. The first 19 or 20 years, the internal risk and internal threat was the largest cause of shrink. It's now organized retail crime. organized retail crime. And I think that we've gotten better internally with our controls and our training and the logistics as well as some of the technology. I think that's been very, very helpful. Bob, you mentioned the survey and the changeover from internal to external.

What, if any, role do you think some of the decriminalization that's happening in various states plays in it? It's a great question. You know, I stay on top of this. It's about 34 states now over the last six years that have taken that felony threshold and moved it up. And, you know, we knew what was going to happen as practitioners as folks in this piece of the industry we knew we were going to see a rise and sure enough you know when it when it was a 300 or 200 this is a $300 felony limit the individuals come in they steal up to that man there's two hundred fifty dollars in states where it was five hundred people would

steal four hundred something when they moved it up to a thousand sure enough what we saw is even the individual shoplifting incidents you know the lone person coming in not the organized crime stuff they come in and they're stealing up to six and seven hundred dollars per incident well they know what they're doing they're going to take that risk take one bite at the apple and steal from you they're going to just stay under that felony limit. It's a lot harder, unfortunately, to get law enforcement. And if you do get law enforcement to respond, to get the district attorneys to pick up on a case when they decriminalize. And I always find it very interesting. The Pew Foundation has

done a study and their research come back and says, says look we didn't have an increase in crime but what they're not accounting for is the actual volume and the financial loss so they say oh look you know we used to have you know 300 of these a month just to say as if they were still having just 300 of course but you know instead of some stealing 200 they're stealing 800 so the financial loss to the industry is huge. And we see it and we fight it every day when our investigative teams go out and then they work up a case and you can't even get a district attorney to take the case because it's just not high enough, the declamation limit is too high.

So it is a struggle. Unfortunately, it's the trend, the societal trend that we're dealing with. And then add on top of that, Tom, I don't know if you want to talk about it right now, but the more aggressive retail criminal. And it's a tougher job than it ever was. Loss prevention is a more difficult job than ever, along with our friends in law enforcement and our other first responding partners. So I guess I'll ask a two-part question, Bob, because you prompted, I would love to hear your kind of viewpoint and what you're hearing about the more violent or more aggressive shoplifting or ORC event. And then also related to the NRF, what, you know, what can AP and LP professionals do with the NRF? Maybe you

could talk a little bit about the ORC regional calls. I think, I know I'm a part of a few different regional calls when I can be, but maybe you can shed a little bit of light on that as well as talk about the violence aspect. I will, Tom. You know, it's probably been about four years plus that we started, first started to hear, and this is how this works, you know, it's probably been about four years plus that we first started to hear, and this is how this works, you know. This is the beauty of networking. I always say in this industry, your net worth will be determined by your network. If you're around me long enough, you'll hear me say that, but it's so true.

So at the end of the day, we ended up hearing all the rumors about, you know, there's a more aggressive retail person, right? They're pushing people to the floor. They're coming in screaming and yelling. They used to just come in, have their theft and run out the door. Their whole motive to get as much as they could and get away without being caught and or spotted by video and all those things. But it's just we saw this trend, and then we followed up on it,

and then we started to add a question or two to the National Retail Security Survey, you know, are you seeing a more aggressive retail criminal? And to no one's surprise, I mean, the first time we asked the question, 96% of the respondents, you know, which was an outrageously high number, said yes. And I think out of that 96, I'm going to say somewhere in the area of 60 to 65%, it's a, they're very aggressive, you know, versus just more aggressive. So then you start to take individual account of looking at the the statistics that are really out there and then back at matter of fact in 2017 I did a little cross survey with the uniform crime reports for robberies and aggravated assaults and aggravated robberies and assaults and frankly the

trend that we were seeing also appears in the police report, uniform crime report. So it's real. It's unfortunate. And I think societally we're seeing that. You know, I'll age myself here. I lived through the 60s when, you know, never trust anybody over 30, and there were anti-war movements,

over 30 and there were anti-war movements and it was a heavy heavier anti-authority kind of a cultural movement I think we're seeing that again we see this more police officers are being killed every year in the line of duty it's it sickens me because I'm an actual enforcement professional myself and I have a lot of friends in that business but we're seeing I talked to school teachers I talk to coaches, anybody in any kind of authority figure, they're seeing the same thing that we are. Unfortunate, loss prevention is that authority figure in the retail business, and we get targeted even to the point of where we've had a couple of loss prevention asset protection

professionals killed in the line of duty over the last three years. I don't want to go into each individual event, but eight years ago, you might agree with me or not, eight to ten years ago, you wouldn't see that. You might have the assault. There's a fight. You know, people will want to get away. But now they're coming in. They're macing people. They're using stun guns, knocking people to the floor, you know, just unnecessary levels of violence and fear they're putting into people's heads.

And unfortunately, you know, it's a trend that I don't see, you know, moving away from too soon. And then what you talked about, what we're trying to accomplish by our – I'll talk about those calls for a minute. So at NRF Protect, we have a fusion center, and then we have a law enforcement kind of investigators network. It's been a breakfast. Next year we're moving it to a luncheon. It's been so popular. We get a couple of hundred folks in the room. They network. They talk about things that are going on,

the most important things of the industry to them, because, as you know, we have to count on our law enforcement partners and our investigators and our mall operators all to fight the the the purge the scourge of organized retail crime so what NRF has done through two of our executives on the investigators Network it's actually Gabe that's busy let me give them credit Gabe Esposito from Verizon and John Shim from Louis Vuitton they took that mantle and we had to expand that throughout the year, 365 days. So what we've done, we down to quarterly calls, and we took – remember I was talking, we

worked with FEMA. Well, they have the country broken up into seven different regions. We took those same FEMA regions and got some volunteer leads, investigative leads from our retail members, and they coordinate – well, we coordinate the calls for them, but they lead the calls, and they get speakers, and they get the – and you get on these calls, and they're talking about everything from, you know, organized retail crime groups, and they're solving crime on these hour and ten-minute long calls. It doesn't go as long as they have to.

And then DAs come on and do little presentations. Our friends at CLEAR, the Coalition for law enforcement and retail and they're the only nationwide kind of organized retail crime group the workers have gotten engaged with us so anyone who wants more information on that please go to the NRF website and just plug in put put in you know the organized retail crime slash investigators network calls or email me and I'll certainly get back to you. But we'd love to grow those groups. But that's a way that we've found to use the technology to our advantage to keep the spirit. And again, we don't want to take over this.

We want to get all those other groups together and be a force multiplier so that we can open communication and network because that's how we're going to continue to solve crimes. So I think I would love to have you come back on and just talk about the violence and some of the things that you're hearing. I know that we won't have time. I've probably got a dozen more questions just based on that. But I wanted to just circle back into kind of a more holistic question on, you know, you're in a unique position. Actually, I think all three of us get to talk to a lot of AP LP professionals. What do you think, you know, if you had some advice for a newer AP practitioner, what would it be? How could they get better at what they do? There's a lot of young blood, a lot of new folks in the mix. And what advice does Bob have for them?

It's a great question, Tom, because, you know, the emerging leaders are up to, you know, all these changes, they're going to have to take on bigger and stronger and more powerful challenges over the decades. So I will tell you, one of the things you bring up a good point, one of the questions we ask on the National Retail Security Survey, we ask them, what are the executives, what are the employee skills needed for the loss prevention department to be successful? And those things have changed over time. You know, it used to be they're like ex-law enforcement folks and they like this and that, certainly investigative skills. But when you look at the numbers now, it's really interesting. And this is in order of what we were told, analytical skills, right, the ability to

critical think and do those things. Some knowledge base about cybersecurity, which is that's the second skill set now we're looking for. Number three is investigative skills, which makes perfect sense. Computer skills themselves, just to be able to create spreadsheets and put information in, put through an algorithm and perhaps come out the other side with some real details about how crime is taking place this is the fifth the fifth one I'm so excited to see finally emotional intelligence or EQ you know the skill sets that you have in your communication skills how you talk to people right I mean that goes hand-in-hand with investigative skills you know I'm an old police detective when I first got hired said these words to me goes Bob you want to be successful investigator like the

people that you're interviewing force yourself to like that I know they're criminals and they're you know dirtbags and oh yeah kind of really bad individuals they've done some horrific things but force yourself to like and you'll be able to make that human connection and get information. And I'll tell you, it's true. And the W&Z philosophy and the Reed philosophy on the law enforcement side of interviewing all take that into consideration. So I love the fact that the number five issue is EQ, emotional intelligence. Interviewing skills for sure is on that, and then a few other things.

But those are the skill sets that we're now looking for. And frankly, before you get into the LP community, get some life experience, go to college. You know, you take up the law enforcement side of the fence, but I'm also a big believer in taking up business courses. You've got to understand how business works, you know. I mean, I have an MBA, and I'm fortunate in my second degree, I made sure I had a criminal justice manager, but I also got a minor in economics and business. So I'm very fortunate to understand a spreadsheet and a P&L and how this works and what's important to the business units because that's who we're going to be working for.

You know, I always say that every dollar lost is a profit dollar. You've already paid for the transportation of the materials and all the overhead and the lighting, and you've paid your consumers, I mean your employees. That profit dollar, if you save that and avert that loss, it goes right to the bottom line. So it's an important way to look at how the losses take place. So get a degree, then get engaged, and then get involved in the volunteer leadership of your company.

Get involved with organizations like the Wickler, New Zelosky, and the LP Foundation. Go get a professional certification or two, not just one. You know, continuing education is so important. I mean, I'm fortunate enough, I was, back in my day, it was the American Society for Industrial Security, so I've got my CPP there. I worked a little bit in the financial service industry, and so I got my certification as a international, from the International Association of Fraud Examiners, I'm a CFE,

as well as the MBA and then continuing education then you go to events like I'll just blow the horn for us and our F protect where you're going to learn from your peers peer-to-peer learning as well as what's the latest and the greatest what's the technology you know we have 250 the greatest solution providers out on that expo floor and And any problem you have, you can find a solution. Talk to your peers, find out what they're doing, and then go out and educate yourself. So you've got to be constant.

You've got to read everything that you can. You've got to be well-read in this business. LP Magazine is wonderful, the D&D Daily, some of the other things that are out there. And then work with your solution providers because they have your solutions. You've got to communicate with them so they understand your problem

and they'll help you come up with creative solutions. So there's my thoughts on, you know, how to be a better LP professional for the future. So this has been fantastic, Bob. And, you know, we've been able in this 30-minute time period to really get a look at what's coming up, what's here now, how is NRF working to support the retailers, the retail LPAP community, what's going on there, how to improve individually and professionally to have an influence on those around you, those above you, those below you, and so forth, to make a real difference. And we appreciate it. And I think, hopefully, you know, and I want to make it abundantly clear again to everybody in the listening audience, if you will, how much we appreciate our partnership with the National

Retail Federation, with Bob Marocca himself, you know, at the LPRC. And our role, I thought you said it really well, Bob, that you're not trying to own anything. You're trying to be a powerful part and supporter of what these retailers are trying to get done in an amazingly interesting and dangerous world. And I think, you know, that's our role is to support you and support the retailers through research. That's our mission is research and development. And our partnership and exchanging, going to each other's conferences and participating there and so forth. So thank you very much.

And so on behalf of Tom Meehan, the crime science team, and especially producer Kevin Tran, I want to thank everybody out there for listening. We're always looking for your suggestions. For crime science, kevin at lpresearch.org. kevin at lpresearch.org is a great way to give us your thoughts, comments, suggestions, ideas, critiques, and so on. So thank you everybody for listening. Thanks for listening to the Crime Science Podcast presented by the Loss Prevention Research Council and sponsored by Bosch Security. If you enjoyed today's episode, you can find more Crime Science episodes and valuable information at lpresearch.org.

The content provided in the Crime Science Podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for legal, financial, or other advice. Views expressed by guests of the Crime Science Podcast are those of the authors and do not reflect the opinions or positions of the Loss Prevention Research Council.