LPRC - CrimeScience – The Weekly Review – Episode 144 with Dr. Read Hayes, Tom Meehan & Tony D’Onofrio Ft. Kevin Larson (Kroger)

Episode Date: April 21, 2023

Welcome back to CrimeScience! This week, our hosts discuss tech safety and cyber security, the risk of using public USB charging stations, LPRC segment was shown on CBS Sunday Morning, and our hosts have a conversation with guest Kevin Larson from the Kroger Companies! Listen in to stay updated on hot topics in the industry and more! The post CrimeScience – The Weekly Review – Episode 144 with Dr. Read Hayes, Tom Meehan & Tony D’Onofrio Ft. Kevin Larson (Kroger) appeared first on Loss Prevention Research Council.

Hi, everyone, and welcome to Crime Science. In this podcast, we explore the science of crime and the practical application of this science for loss prevention and asset protection practitioners as well as other professionals. All right. Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Crime Science, a podcast from the LPRC from Gainesville. And today we are joined by Tony D'Onofrio, Tom Meehan, our special guest, Kevin Larson of Kroger Company, as well as our producer, Diego Rodriguez. And we want to welcome everybody here today. What I want to do is just very briefly do a download. I think we've been besieged in a good way by getting some comments uh overwhelmingly favorable i think on the cbs

news sunday morning piece that just ran this past sunday um you know it's one of those things where you have a tv crew in your labs for just about six hours um and you what the result is a two or three minute segment but they did a super job. Um, we did talk about a whole lot of things you can imagine in six hours and a whole lot of filming and taping and things like that. Um, the only comment I saw that was helpful, I thought that wasn't pot that was, uh, not necessarily common. It was, um, well, what about consequences? You know, people, this, the only way to really be smart about this is put people in prison or jail. But we did talk, obviously, about the erosion of consequences in the United States,

at least the perception of that. And so, but again, we don't know and have no control over what's said. But I think overwhelmingly, I believe our team is very pleased with the way CBS handled it. And between that story and now as we speak, we've been approached by numerous other news outlets. And stories were proposed even before the CBS piece hit that we participated in and those that we did not. participated in and those that we did not. And so we're pretty, we try not to get engaged in something that would be a hatchet job or an ambush, clearly. But at the same time, we think our role is to talk a little bit about the issues as the research and our membership are indicating to us the way that life is rolling right now, what they're experiencing, the harm that's created to their people, their customers, their places, the local community, and their overall organizations. And I think that's what's most important. We need to better understand that. We need to explain that

and help people understand the harm that really is created when an individual offender or a crew of offenders makes a series of decisions of conscious choices to harm somebody or harm a place, right, to victimize. So that's really what crime's all about. And for us to talk a little bit about how we're working with real retailers, in fact, 76 retail corporations around the U.S. and the world to help them better safeguard their people and their places, their organizations from ongoing theft, from fraud, and of course, all forms of violence and hybrids of all the above. And so CBS allowed us to talk a little bit about that to showcase the labs. We had Fox 35 News out of Orlando and they want to do a series. We've been contacted by others,

but I just thought we'd talk for a split second about that. And what I'm going to do now is we'll talk later about some of the crime issues in some of our research on upcoming episodes. We've got a lot more in store going forward here on Crime Science, but I wanted to turn it over to Tony D'Onofrio and to our longtime friend and colleague, Kevin Larson from Kroger Company, talk a little bit about how Kroger looks at the world, what they're up to as far as safeguarding their people and their places. Tony, if I could turn it over to you. Thank you very much, Reid. And it is indeed a great pleasure to welcome a really special guest and an industry leader and really a great friend and partner of

the Loss Prevention Research Council, Kevin Larson. So welcome, Kevin. Well, good morning, gentlemen. It's a pleasure to be here. Well, thank you. So let's start by giving the audience a little bit of a background on your career. And as you do that, tell us about any surprises you ran across along the way as you built your career. Yeah. So, you know, I don't think there's been many surprises other than just, you know, as we all know, the ever-changing landscape of the retail asset protection loss prevention sector. But, you know, Tony, this marks my 30th year in the asset protection field. And I have to say it's been an exciting journey. year in the asset protection field. And I have to say it's been an exciting journey.

I started my career as a college intern at a department store called Dayton's, which was based in Minneapolis. Halfway through my internship, I was offered a position at a department store chain called Marshall Fields in Chicago, which is where I had grown up. So my journey has taken me to, you know, such retailers as Venture, which was a Midwest kind of a Target-esque type retailer. I also did work at Target, worked at Lane Bryant, spent many years at L Brands, where I held positions as zone director, director of loss prevention, overseeing the Bath and Body Works brand. And as you mentioned, the past 12 years I've been residing with Kroger, where I'm currently on special assignment as the senior manager of Center Store Product Protection. And, you know, you mentioned the LPRC. It's very near and dear to my heart. I'm honored to

been part of the LPRC for all these years. I currently sit as a vice chair on the board of advisors and I'm truly honored to be here today. So I appreciate it. Thank you. Wow, that's an amazing career. 30 years. Congratulations. That's a major milestone and really we appreciate all your contribution, especially to the Loss Prevention Research Council. But can you tell me a little bit more in terms of your perspective on asset protection today and how do you think it's evolving? Yeah. So, you know, it's funny.

I was speaking to an industry colleague at a conference several weeks ago, and we began to reminisce about the loss prevention asset protection field, what it was like when we started, you know, over 25 years ago. And I think a lot of veterans of the industry remember the days of, you know, having to run our own coax cable through the store. You know, you tie it to a tennis ball, you tie it to a softball, and we had to roll it across the steel beams in the stock rooms. You know, back then our, you know, our budgets were small. You know, I remember actually sitting in the living room of a peer of mine when we worked at Target and we were, you know, putting together covert cameras from the ground up, building our own covert cameras, soldering cables, crimping wires.

Those are really different times. But when I think of the differences of the APLP professional, this is where I see the greatest strides. You know, back in the day, a lot of the APLP professionals were former law enforcement or strictly security professionals. Now, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of outstanding leaders, some very insightful things that were developed. But when I think of the AP personnel, it's not a requirement to have the APLP background. The APLP leader today needs to be more well-rounded, well-educated in all aspects of the business. As Dr. Hayes would always say, it's not just about catching red actors anymore. You have to understand how shrink occurs, how to read a P&L statement, how to truly coach others, how to even put together capital requests. The list goes on and on.

The APLP professional today needs to be more exposure to the brand, to the company executives, and really needs to understand how to communicate and influence them. Yeah, that's very, very interesting. And I would agree with you, though, that there's a lot of changes, especially with COVID and what happened with COVID and where we're at today. But I know you're also heavily involved in data analytics. And from a generic point of view, can you tell us a little bit in terms of how do you think data analytics is evolving and how it's helping loss prevention? Yeah, so, you know, I read this quote once, and it really stands true, is that it's from

W. Edmunds Deming. It reads, without your data, you're just another person with an opinion. And although a simple quote, it holds very true in the business and the retail world. Many, many years ago, you know, APLP teams were consistently reactionary, just responding to what their cameras showed them or what their teams were responding to the thefts that were occurring. As more and more retailers are looking to gain insight to what is causing opportunities from shrink, crime, theft, they're using data that you have within your own organization. It's a very powerful tool. Predictive analytics is one way that, you know, APLP teams do this now. Analyzing historical data and everything from sales, shrink, you know, customer behavior, inventory levels can help retailers identify patterns that indicate theft or fraud. I think recent

advancements of AI and machine learning can look at vast amounts of data and identify outliers, such as suspicious transactions or abnormal purchase patterns. We're never going to have that crystal ball, Tony, but it will provide us a foundation to build a world map on how we might implement various strategies, technologies, or even staffing. And let's not forget about the data you can also get from outside your own organization. I know during this conversation today we're going to talk a little bit about the Walsh Prevention Research research council but what this council brings to our industry in relation to data research can also be utilized within your own organization yeah that's a very good point and in fact let's switch to that topic let's talk a little bit about

the loss prevention uh yeah i know you you're a leader in it and you've done not really some really great things in supporting its growth but how do you think it's evolved from your perspective and what do you think are the areas we need to continuously improve? Yeah. So, you know, as I mentioned earlier, I started with the council about nine years ago and really never looked back. The work that Dr. Hayes and his team of research scientists do for the industry is world-class. And you're right, I observed a lot of change over the years, but it's all been good and much-needed change. You know, I remember going to LPRC impact conferences in the early years of my partnership with them, and there'd be maybe 150 attendees. Last year, I think we set a new record and had 350 plus in attendance and so as the lprc continues on

i think their success will be continuing to listen to their members listen and understand what the needs are of each sector of the retail world our membership numbers are currently an all-time high which is outstanding but the other thing we need to continue to make the lp lprc strong The other thing we need to continue to make the LPRC strong is the participation of its members, right? So just don't pay your membership fee and not participate. I've heard in the past from some retailers, you know, I don't really get anything out of the LPRC. Well, it's a two-way street. You have to put something into it to get something out of it. Have your AP team participate in the working groups, in some of the webinars, the summits. The LPRC also needs lots of data. So your work with your company's data governance teams and see what kind of data you can share with them. There's a lot to get out of the LPRC. You just have to put something into it. Yeah, I totally agree. It is a partnership. And I know we just finished the Integrate program. What are your thoughts on the Integrate program and its relevance to the loss prevention and retail? Yeah, you know, the Integrate program, I've told this to Dr. Hayes and many others. I think,

you know, the Integrate event was well thought out, well planned. It was the first time that we've conducted, I believe, tabletop exercises, you know, that focused on the left of bang, bang, right of bang theory. And in general, tabletop exercises are good for teams as it provides them the opportunity to practice the response to emergency or a crisis situation, but obviously do it in a very low-risk type environment. One of the biggest benefits that comes from such table-top exercises, and even the one that we just did down at LPRC, is the collaboration occurs between the retailers, between the solution providers. It allowed us to maybe, you know, identify gaps in our processes and vulnerabilities. The integrated event had thought-provoking dialogue and really allowed the participants

break down some of the walls that we often have in the retail sector and discuss and learn from each other. Yeah, I totally agree with you. This whole concept of collaboration is becoming more and more. And just the CBS interview that Reid was just talking about, loss prevention is much more in the news. So really many more departments within retailers are talking about loss prevention. And so this collaboration is becoming more and more important. Talk about that a little bit more in terms of how do you see collaboration going forward in retail between loss prevention and other departments? Yeah, well, Tony, as you mentioned, collaboration is key, not just within your organization,

but outside your organizational walls. And, you know, when you think about the ingredients of a successful APLP team, it all starts with how they collaborate and build relationships within their own full walls. Do they work closely with the various departments such as, you know, merchandising, legal, logistics, the planning teams? This may seem like a simple statement, but, you know, maybe not always done effectively for retail and retailer. On the flip side, it's also impaired to collaborate with others in the retail world outside your full wall. So learn about new technologies or processes that other quote unquote like retailers are using. It only helps you build a stronger ecosystem within your own APLP department. And as retailers, we're all fighting the same battle each day.

Where can we, you know, where can we, and let's share some information and perspectives on things so that we can all learn together and fight this battle together. Yeah, I totally agree with you. And in fact, if you look at where things are going, like with computer vision, it's a lot of security technologies that are really helping the rest of retail move forward. So let me close on that note in terms of what do you see the future of asset protection and loss prevention going forward from your perspective? Well, you know, I may have mentioned this earlier, referenced earlier, but I think the future of asset protection and loss prevention is strong. The unfortunate increase in theft and threat price management has really brought to the down shrink, protect our customers and associates, and ultimately, you know, drive sales? Yeah, that's a very good point. So, Kevin, really, really appreciate your great insights.

You're a valued partner of the Loss Prevention Research Council and in the industry with all your work at Kroger. So I want to thank you for joining us. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to Tom. Thanks, Tony. And thank you, Kevin, for joining. Always a pleasure to have you on the podcast and hear your voice. Thank you. Just wanted to cover some current events. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to attend. It's like the first podcast I missed in a long time last week, but there's been just a tremendous amount going on. We'll start with the news on classified leaked documents. When I first saw the documents, I actually saw them. I

did not actually think they were real because they were just very poor photographs of what looked like 1990s PowerPoints. So it was very interesting to see that these were real documents. And then to see how they got leaked and evolved, actually a Washington Post journalist identified the leaker far before the U.S. government did, U.S. government did, which was a airman, so actually a reserve airman in Massachusetts, 21 years old, who leaked the documents on a Discord server. And for those listeners that use the FusionNet here at LPRC, we actually use Discord for the FusionNet, which is a really a collaboration social media tool. And it's a little unclear of the motive behind it, but this was a small private Discord server where there was banter back and forth. This was a gaming group of individuals ranging from 14 to 22 years old. There's somewhere between 9 and 11 individuals

on here. And arguably probably the largest and most damaging classified leak of documents since the Snowden leaks occurred with a group of young individuals that when you read all of the information that's available and look into it, it feels kind of like this individual said he had some information

and actually shared it to boast or prove that he did have the information. And the information started a discord, which was a closed group and then was shared and read it for Chan and then ended up on Twitter. And some of the documents included maps of military movement in the Ukraine. included maps of military movement in the Ukraine. Some of the more damaging documents were related to activities that the government was involved in, which I think if you're in government or in intelligence, you're not surprised where, but I think the general public often is surprised in the sense of how the U.S. government was essentially spying on other governments and gathering information. It's important to note that some of these documents have not been authentic. So if you've looked on the Internet, you may have even seen these documents through the blurb in news media.

They were very widely available. through the blurred in news media, they were very widely available. Some of them are authentic and deemed authentic, and others are considered to be doctored. As a matter of fact, one of the challenges that's occurring right now is that these documents are out in the open. It allows other governments and bad actors to edit these documents. And then you start the misinformation campaign that we're in today. So what does this mean for all of us? It just is a great reminder for all of us the importance of safeguarding confidential information. When we think about loss prevention, security professionals, law enforcement, we do a lot of investigations. And I think we at the surface are always very, very aware of safeguard of investigations, and I think we, at the surface, are always very,

very aware of safeguarding documents. But I think sometimes we forget that in this particular instance, someone just took out their cell phone and took a picture of this document. So it might be a time to, you know, work with your organization to look at what your policies are and make sure that it's very clear and that, you know, just not just taking a photo of a potential document or using it later on could be a violation and also safeguard you from a privacy standpoint. It also shows just how quickly information can spread in social media. And I think one of the lessons that I continue to try to send, and I think this group, especially because we do a lot

of things in closed groups through the LPRC, is understanding that when you're using a document that once it's handed to someone in a digital format, you could in fact lose control of it. So the importance of marketing it confidential, the importance of reminding people not to share it. And in today's day and age with all the geopolitical challenges that we're facing, the timing for the release of these documents couldn't be worse. I think the three kind of main things that, you know, for us here listening is what does it mean for a geopolitical standpoint, what could be the impact for us as retailers from an economic standpoint, as well as a supply chain standpoint. Luckily, it doesn't feel like there's much that is occurring with it, but it's unfortunate that

these events continue to occur. So as we say, I think Tony and I say this all the time and read on the podcast of just how important it is to know what information you're sharing and how you're sharing it and how easily something can get out of one hand into another and change. Just wanted to switch gears a little bit and talk about specific to us as retailers and folks that travel a lot. This is not a new warning. It's a warning that we've talked about here on the podcast before, but the importance of we all travel quite a bit and not using those charging stations at airports. And when you see that little USB plug, the risk of plugging something in there and potentially infecting a device, especially if it's a work device. There are a lot of safeguards that are put in place by software, both on Android and Apple. But unfortunately, there are, in today's day and age, a lot more new ways that people are taking advantage of this.

The FBI released an updated warning. This is not new. There are ways around it. The easiest way is to bring your charging block with you or portable battery and plug it into the wall. I know that I am a consistent traveler. I travel often, and there are times where I leave a charger somewhere or lend someone my charger, so I'm faced with this, how do I charge? So I understand how easy it is and convenient it is to plug into that USB port. But if you have a device that has anything that you are concerned

could be confidential, I highly recommend you don't. There have been a bunch of warnings about that. And I think it's important that you just stay vigilant and try to minimize your exposure as much as possible. I was going to talk about the CBS video, but Reid covered it very well. There was a lot of information around the internet on that. And I think one of the great things here is we had a rash of videos or reports that were either neutral or weighing to one side of the equation. And it's not our say or place to say what, you know, to dispute what people are saying on the news media. This is a fact-based organization. But I

thought that it was a great representation of the Loss Prevention Research Council and retail asset protection professionals in general, because the, while short, the video and interview really talked about some of the challenges that the LPRC is seeing with retailers versus, you know, kind of splitting hairs on surveys and challenging it out. video that came out a few, probably six weeks prior, that was largely driven to create a single-sided narrative. And, you know, I don't think that that's my opinion. I think if you watch that, you'll see that where I thought this really did a good job of talking about what the Los Angeles Research Council is seeing. And the reality there is that that is fact. We are seeing it. We are talking to our members. We are. And I thought it really showed well for the industry. A little short today. And

with that, I will turn it back over to Reid. All right. Well, thank you so much for that, Tom. Great information. You know, it's interesting, the leaks and the ease of those leaks, as you mentioned, just pull out your cell phone, take a few photos and then upload them on your favorite platform. And, you know, and here we go. I just listened to actually this morning to another podcast where they were describing probably some of the death and horror that will result from that posting, where they described the amount of air defense missiles available and the actual date when they might run out, allowing the Russians, particularly in this

case, to maybe take advantage of that kind of deadly leak. So, you know, something for us all to think about. Yet another thing for all of us to think about in this world. I want to thank Kevin, of course, for his insights and point out one thing that Kevin Larson mentioned, and that is we really do need information, data, participation to make things happen for everybody. And we've talked about this before, but the strata that we have to work at, because there's not really any other team like the LPRC or the University of Florida's crime prevention research team in the world that we're aware of. And so on the strategic level, we're out there

working with the National Retail Federation and many, many others, of course, on the National Retail Security Survey to get that corporate level view from that pyramid head level view. What are you experiencing? What's causing your problems based on what you know so far? What are you doing about it? How are you deploying people, programs, and systems, and things like that? You know, Dr. Corey Lowe, our senior research scientist deploying the ARCS program, looking at that, you know, American Retail Survey that he's got going out to supplement the NRSS. And that's very, very deep and granular looks at what's going on at the store level, at the district regional level, but at the market level, so that all the participating retailers can now have insight into what's going on

themselves at that level, but also what are others around you experiencing and how are different places comparing to other places for you to continually get become more and more precise at what and how you do things. So and then finally, working with Chasey on our team and other research scientists on the voice of the victim, getting the voices of store workers, current and recent workers. What have they experienced personally or vicariously as far as crime and aggression? How's that affecting their performance or them working in retail? And so on. I just saw another report where REI, one of our very active LPRC members, is pulling out, closing down their flagship store in Portland, Oregon. And we know that another very active LPRC member, Walmart's closed down stores, their stores in Portland and pulled out both cases and many other cases that

we know of Nike and beyond because of crime, because of burglaries, because of shoplifting, because of harassment and aggression that's creating that fear and that loss, really unsustainable financial loss, as well as the morality of having people work in places that are dangerous. And so, you know, we see an Albuquerque, Walmart pulling out and so on, at least one store. So let's all work together. Please participate, submit your data. I know Kevin had a call to action as far as we've got six very active year round working groups. We've got the best and brightest across 76 retail chains or corporations, plus all their divisions working in those groups with our research scientists, with leading solution partners, with law enforcement agencies to get better and better at reducing theft, at fraud, at violence,

both the high impact, the organized and the opportunistic levels. So a lot going on, a lot we need to get done, as well as experimental research at the ground level. So thank you, Tony. Thank you, Tom. Thank you, Kevin. Thank you, Diego, Wilson, and most of all, you all that are listening. Let us know what you think and need. And from Gainesville, signing off, stay safe. Thanks for listening to the Crime Science Podcast presented by the Loss Prevention Research Council. If you enjoyed today's episode, you can find more crime science episodes and valuable information at lpresearch.org. crime science episodes and valuable information at lpresearch.org. The content provided in the Crime Science Podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for legal, financial, or other advice. Views expressed by guests of the Crime Science Podcast are those of the authors and do not reflect the opinions or positions of the Loss Prevention Research Council.