LPRC - CrimeScience – The Weekly Review – Episode 97 with Dr. Read Hayes, Tom Meehan & Tony D’Onofrio

Episode Date: March 31, 2022

LPRC visitors just keep coming to the labs! The metaverse is creating waves in the retail space! In this week’s episode, our co-hosts discuss children’s immune systems fight against COVID-19, the top celebrities in the metaverse, vaccine quantities are swinging, and PPP loans fraudsters are pursued. Listen in to stay updated on hot topics in the industry and more! The post CrimeScience – The Weekly Review – Episode 97 with Dr. Read Hayes, Tom Meehan & Tony D’Onofrio appeared first on Loss Prevention Research Council.

Hi, everyone, and welcome to Crime Science. In this podcast, we explore the science of crime and the practical application of this science for loss prevention and asset protection practitioners, as well as other professionals. We would like to thank Bosch for making this episode possible. Take advantage of the advanced video capabilities offered by Bosch to help reduce your shrink risk. Integrate video recordings with point-of-s sale data for visual verification of transactions and exception reporting. Use video analytics for immediate notification of important AP related events and leverage analytics metadata for fast forensic searches for evidence and to

improve merchandising and operations. Learn more about extending your video system beyond simple surveillance in zones one through four of LPRC's zones of influence by visiting Bosch online at boschsecurity.com. Welcome everybody to another episode of Crime Science the Podcast from the LPRC. This is the latest in our weekly update series. I'm joined by Tony D'Onofrio and Tom Ian and our producer Diego Rodriguez. We're going to talk a little bit about what's going on around the world that we think might be helpful. And I'll start off as per normal right now, unfortunately, talking a little about the pandemic, just because it has such a critical impact on everything we do. We want to get better at what we're doing now. We want to get better at prevention and suppression in the future,

want to get better at prevention and suppression in the future so we don't have to keep going through this. It looks like there's some good research around why children are not so adversely affected by the COVID-19 disease, by SARS-CoV-2 virus, where we know in the past, like the Spanish flu and others, children have been the most vulnerable and sometimes young people the most seriously affected. And so in this case, though, one hypothesis is just the fact that younger kids are so heavily exposed to viruses all day and every day with friends and at school and other places and just tend to be viral vectors themselves. And so there's probably some more conferred immunity and more preparedness there in your immune systems.

The second again, because the young immune system is just so robust, but just reacts so quickly, so immediately at the antibody and cellular level, evidently is what the research is telling us. So those two are pretty powerful combinations on top of just typically overall general good health and higher levels of fitness in children. So just food for thought on that. Looking around the world a little bit, other research showing things that make sense, and we know this makes sense, I guess, for all of us all the time, but some research around

eating leafy greens or drinking drinks that include leafy greens seems to have a pretty significant effect on how serious the disease could progress in our recovery from that disease itself, COVID-19. Looking at the infection rate, again, we see over in China, Hong Kong, but also we're seeing in the UK some spikes going on right now. So we continue to track that and see what's going to happen. The US just doesn't right now seem to be affected by that. We always know there's some kind of lag and everybody's hoping that that's not going to play out in this case. Looking at FDA, there's word out that they are preparing to okay a second booster for all Americans over the age of 50. In other words, you've gotten the one or the two dose course, gotten a booster, now a second booster. But it's interesting that the U.S.

may not be prepared anymore, have the resources to fund COVID-19 testing and treatments that that funding is now run out or running out. And so they're not sure if they're going to refund that free testing and free treatment going forward, at least at this point. So we'll stay tuned to see what they do about that. Bloomberg reporting that there's now globally switched from a shortage of vaccines available all around the world to an actual glut, which we've seen in the United States for quite a while now, much more vaccine available than demand for the vaccine or vaccine usage. So quite a turnaround globally. And that's probably a testament to ramped up manufacturing, more efficient distribution as we learned how to do that around the world, how to administer vaccines, even in some of the most remote places, particularly the vaccines that were required way below subzero freezing temperatures. That's very difficult in places like the United States, much less in much less urbanized environments or sophisticated transportation and storage environments.

So that's probably good news, though, the fact that clearly that there's a glut of vaccine available around the world. And the fact that so many people have been vaccinated now in the United States, we've talked about over a quarter billion Americans have now been vaccinated. quarter billion Americans have now been vaccinated. Now about 257 million Americans have been vaccinated globally. An astounding 5.1 billion humans have now been vaccinated for this, which is just staggering when you think about that level of vaccination. Again, we talked about there's a glut now of vaccine available. So vaccines continue, but certainly doesn't seem like the rate that we saw the need for. Human clinical trials, still well over 100 different candidates moving through the pipeline, with 53 vaccine candidates in phase one human trials, 47 candidates in phase two human trials, and 50 now in phase three human trials. Just an incredible amount of vaccines going through very rigorous, double-blind, randomized

controlled trials at the large scale that a phase three trial involves. Nineteen vaccines have emergency use authorization. Of course, now a dozen have full approval. Israel continues to do a lot of research and has been on the forefront. Small, very small, but yet very sophisticated, organized, disciplined type of a medical system or a country with a sophisticated medical system doing research. They found that in their country and their sampling, a fourth dose, another what we talked about before, where maybe a second booster for those over 50, in their cases, reduced death risk by COVID-19 or as a result of having COVID-19, reduced it by almost 80%. So still significant effects. We know there are negative effects

to the vaccine. Most are very, very minor. There are some that aren't so minor. But again, we're looking at over 5 billion people and a quarter of a million of a billion Americans. It looks like just very, very, very, very small rate compared to those that have gotten some of the particularly some of the long COVID diseases. We've talked about some of the effects on our brains and other parts of our body. So but now switching over to what we know a little more about on this podcast, this team, and Tom may touch on some of this, but just the theft and fraud, which was tragically inevitable at the PPP level, providing that COVID relief to organizations so they wouldn't have to lay off their employees, but rather continue onward. There's as much as maybe even more than $80 billion in fraud.

And we've seen these stories on the media, people driving around their escalades, buying yachts, all kinds of things for their organizations and some of the organizations that receive the aid that just made no sense. But over $80 billion in fraud is the estimate right now, according to the Washington Post reporting. They're also reporting that on the individual side, the COVID unemployment relief is even more significant, probably over $90 billion in fraud, theft by Americans claiming to have been unemployed by COVID. They really weren't. They may have had other side jobs. They were doing other things. So we can see that we're talking about just almost $200 billion in fraud from the COVID relief. Phenomenal. We'll go over,

finally switch over to, excuse me, a little about LPRC. Chad McIntosh, our COO, just got back from the ISC, ISC West, and International Security Conference and reported large, robust crowds, a lot of participation. And Tony D'Onofrio might mention a little bit about it because he also was there. Tom may have been as well. So I'll leave it to you guys to report a little bit about that. But that gives us probably some indicator as we all kind of come out from under our desk and are getting more and more engaged and involved and trying to be safe about things but still trying to move on with our lives knowing that we've got these viruses are becoming endemic of different types so um we've got the real conference

coming up and again i want to reinforce that at the lpr, we'll be having an open house on April 27th and 28th. So April 27th and 28th. And if you have any thoughts or plans of coming by and sitting down with us, touring, hanging out in Gainesville at our lab complex, more than welcome you again, operations at lpresearch.org that April 27th and 28th. We've recently had quite a few visitors right now. We've got flock safety in our labs looking at how we're going to deploy and test broader ecosystems and partnerships, in this case with license plate readers and other technologies that don't have to have a lot of PII, technologies that don't have to have a lot of PII but then could help us sense and find high-rate high-impact offenders by their vehicles and what places might be more at risk than others mentioned before we had Esriene the largest map

software and technology produces in the world going through and implementing with our team, particularly with Sarah and James and Orion and myself and Corey and Rochelle. We just completed, I mentioned before, advanced auto parts going through with that incredible crew, over 60 of their top asset protection leaders. Continue with communication and follow up with them on some of that program. communication and follow-up with them on some of that program. We've got TJX coming up today, tomorrow, and the next day, working with the TJX asset protection loss prevention teams across their marshals and TJ Maxx and HomeGoods and so on up in Canada, HomeSense and so forth. So we're excited there. I have the opportunity, excited to get up into Canada next week with Loblaw and their chains, but they're a world-class team led by Dean Henrico. So we're really pleased and excited

to work with so many leading retailers, their teams, and working at the different scales. Yesterday, we had the LPRC Board of Advisors chair and vice chair meeting. Excited, a quorum. You know, everybody's out and about. So we had our chair, Scott Zeider, Price Chopper and other chains fame here, as well as Gary Smith from Target and Kevin Larson from Kroger Company. We had Ehab from Party City. and Kevin Larson from Kroger Company. We had Ehab from Party City. We had Fred from Bloomingdale's and so on, and plating out the year, what we need to do, how we're going to do it, and getting some good insights and input. Talked a lot about the 2022 version of the LPRC impact

here in Gainesville that October 3rd, 5th of this year, please budget your time and travel for that. We are already started on the content, the logistics, and so on. Diego and Chad and others on the team are working away on that logistics side. So, on the Innovate side, we are continuing to add sponsors here in the LPRC Innovate program. Again, we've got the five centers of excellence here, the AI Solve, got Safer Places Center of Excellence. We've got Connected Place. We've got Connected Enterprise. And then finally, we've got Connected Community. So with those five centers of excellence, each have five to eight program opportunities under them. So these programs and the sponsorships are allowing the sponsors to get involved. The 16 retailers on our advisory

panel planning out and executing Innovate on a regular basis, they get a lot of branding and exposure and other opportunities. But what it's allowing us to do, the funding, the extra resources, is to bring on and expand our research and development team. And it's allowed us to bring on James Martin and Orion, San Angelo, add two. And as we continue to add sponsors, we'll be able to bring on another researcher

and then another research assistant. So the goal here is to have, in addition to myself, have an eight-person research team that's going to allow us to do just an incredible amount of things here. So with no further ado, I'd like to turn it over to Tony D'Onofrio, and then we'll next go to Tommy and Tony. Thank you very much, Reid. And again, great update, Bolton, LPRC. Good to see all that engagement and also what's going on with COVID. Yes, I was at ISC West, as was Tom, and I guess we were so busy we didn't even see each other. I can tell you that I was surprised by the number

of major retailers that brought multiple members of their teams there that I was able to meet with. So it looks like we're back in terms of regular events, which bodes well for impact and other events that you're planning and that we're planning. So let me jump in into two topics that have been in our news a lot. And this is the metaverse and nfts and i'm going to look at them from the consumer or the buying public point of view and what do they think about them so in other words how did they play in retail so for answers i'm going to turn to the chain storage which i pre which actually published a survey this past week. While only 5% of respondents said they are part of the metaverse,

the survey still reveals the potential for the metaverse as a retail channel. In the metaverse, consumers use augmented and virtual reality technology to digitally engage with each other and their surrounding with crossover into the physical world. And again, some of this has already been experimented at the LTL PRC.

So I would encourage everyone to join for that. But this particular survey revealed that 41% of respondents are interested in connecting with others virtually while 26% reported feeling neutral and 19% were not interested. More than half of respondents have heard of the metaverse, with 42% saying they don't know much about it. Of the respondents who have not heard of the metaverse, 76% are disinterested interested or neutral, while 25% expressed interest. While the 42% have not seen any brands in the metaverse, among those that have, it's interesting which brands

already are active in the metaverse. And they are the one that calls itself meta, which is Facebook. So meta Facebook, Nike and Microsoft, Disney and Coca-Cola. In addition, the survey indicates the Metaverse brand recognition is emerging for Wendy's, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Chipotle, NASCAR, Hyundai and Balachenka. Although they're receiving currently 10% or less customer vaccination. The survey also examined the impact of celebrity influencers in the metaverse, finding that more than half of respondents are not interested in engaging with celebrities.

But for those that are, the top celebrities they want to speak to in the virtual world are lady gaga followed by rihanna snoop dogg and paris hilton so that's who they want to meet in the metaverse also interesting this survey examined nfts or non-fungible tokens which have been in the news a lot more than half of respondents have heard but not acquired NFTs. Of those that have heard of them but not acquired, only 48% are not likely to acquire one at all, and 18% are likely to very likely. Over a third of respondents have not specifically heard of NFTs. And the ones that I've heard about, which is roughly about 9%,

46% acquired them due to the expected increase in value over time. Another 38% acquired them because of they like to design. 28% because they support the artists. And 28% they acquired them because it was exclusive to them. Of note in the article from the experiential e-commerce platform Obsess, it indicates that 70% of all consumers who have shopped online in a virtual store have made a purchase.

So we are starting to buy things in the virtual world. Overall, one quarter of respondents in the OPSA survey have shopped in a 3D virtual store. Among that group, 70%, including 69% of Gen Xers, 77% of Millennials, and 67% of Gen Xers have made a purchase in a virtual store. So those younger generation are starting to engage in the metaverse and also have interest in NFTs. Although I saw recently in the Wall Street Journal that there is a severe decline in interest in NFTs. So we'll have to see where that goes. I do believe the metaverse will play. NFTs still a room to see where that goes. I do believe the metaverse will play. NFTs still a room to see where it goes. This past week, Yenorap also published their version

of the 2020-2022 top 50 global retailers. They partnered with Kandar for the research. The top 10 retailers, top 10 global retailers from the 22 list are Walmart, which is from the USA, of course, Amazon from the USA, the Schwarz Group, which owns Lillostores from Germany, Aldi from Germany, Costco from the US, Aho Delhaize from the Netherlands, Carrefour from France, IKEA from Sweden, Seven and I, which runs 7-Eleven from Japan, and Home Depot from the U.S.A. So summarizing the top 10, four of the top 10 are from the U.S., five are from Europe, and one is from Asia. And then finally this week, the growth of e-commerce is not abating.

And there was some interesting data this week, again, from our chain storage and the growth of e-commerce from a survey of the future of digital store shelf reports from Edge by Essential, by Essential, which stated that online worldwide retail sales will reach $2.4 trillion in gross merchandise value by 2026. This means that e-commerce will account for 40% of global retail sales by 2026, with store-based retail sales dropping from 60% to 60% from 69%. In addition, from 2021 to 2026, e-commerce will make up 63% of all gross merchandise value, uppacing every other store-based retail channel. During the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, e-commerce activity increased by 37% worldwide. The study indicates the majority of shoppers now begin their product searches on digital channels with one in three store purchases beginning online. And when in-store, shoppers are increasingly engaging with digital experiences through mobile apps,

QR codes, and social media and payments. Other interesting findings from the surveys, retailers lose up to more than a fifth of their weekly sales for every day their product is out of stock. Search is the now preferred way to shop, an entry point to product and brand discovery. And for products sold online and a product detail page

and online packaging are critical for promotional material for products displayed on the product shelf. So e-commerce is here. All surveys indicate it's going to continue to grow, but that does not mean stores are not going out of business. E-commerce is a discovery channel in a lot of ways for ultimately a lot of the merchandise still bought in the store. And for that, with that update, let me turn it over to Tom. Well, thank you, Tony. Thank you, Rita. And yes, I was at ISC West. I wanted to just start off by saying it was extremely busy, and Tony and I did miss each other because of

that. But a good crowd, certainly a different vibe at ISC West, because I think everybody was very excited to be out and about. There was a slight difference in vendors, but not enough that I think I would say that it changed the show. There were certainly a lot of international folks at the NRF Big Show, and I think there were some international folks that were missing, if you will, from this event. And I touched base with a couple of couple people and it had more to do with travel and just other things going on than the covid piece so i think we are somewhat out of the woods um i want to start actually with what reed mentioned earlier which was um what arguably could be the biggest fraud in u.s, and the Department of Justice is aggressively going after PPP loan fraudsters. And the numbers are kind of staggering of what is believed. Obviously, this is still in the

estimate phase. But when you think of the $80 billion mark as a potential, it is pretty significant for all intents and purposes. And just to give some context, that is about 10% of the total PPP loans handled out for COVID relief. The Paycheck Protection Program, all these P's are a little bit confusing sometimes, is what it is really referred to. The idea was that businesses would be able to take advantage of this loan during COVID and have forgiveness on it, basically the government giving this money in order to keep employment. So there were criterias that had to be met. And one of the

main criterias was that you had to keep a large percentage of your employees employed in order to get this. And it was based on revenue. So there was a criteria here. But when you think about what we know, the Department of Justice is estimated today is $80 billion. 10% of those were fraud. And we're already starting to see arrests being made and extravagant purchases, sports cars, yachts, all sorts of things that are coming out of this. And it's prevalent in the news today. I think it was in The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, ABC, NBC.

Everybody had a report that went out in the last week or so. And it's been good to see the Department of Justice on it. They're predominantly using the False Claims Act that's been used to pursue the fraud claims. So the False Claims Act allows the Department of Justice really to go after this and enforces it under that. So I think we're going to continue to see cases come out. We're starting to see sentences. And a lot of the sentences, not that I'm minimizing this, are for fraud in the million to $2 million ranges. That's what we're starting to see. We'll is there is, you know, and this is a crazy number, if you think, from $90 billion to $400 billion believed to have been stolen from the unemployment relief program. So the U.S. government issued $900 billion, so nearly a trillion dollars in COVID unemployment relief. And this is still

being heavily investigated. But there is this number between $90 billion and $400 billion of unemployment relief that is fraudulent. So there is a push to go after that as well. There is a little bit of gray in this. And what I mean by that is that there were rules that changed during unemployment benefits from the federal mandate. So for instance, one of the big ones that really opened the door for fraud is pre-COVID, if you were self-employed, you really didn't have any unemployment benefits. During COVID, the federal government opened what would never, never been done before as to this methodology of if you were a self-employed individual or a contract individual that you were able to apply and receive a COVID-related unemployment benefits. So if you were an Uber driver or if you were some of that owned your

own self-employed business, you were able to get unemployment, which hadn't happened before. And where the gray comes into play is there were some folks that had a mix of, there were percentages of you were allowed to collect unemployment and do certain things. So there is some investigative piece here where people took advantage of that while working, basically working that job and then collecting unemployment at the same time. But when you think of the sheer volume of fraud here, taking into consideration the $80 billion on the PPP and then the $90 billion, which is what they're estimating in the minimum, this is a substantial, substantial amount of fraud.

And it really leads to what we talk about often on the podcast here is that, unfortunately, there are a lot of good programs, a lot of good technologies, a lot of good things that nefarious actors take advantage of. And we talk about that all the time. And this is going to be one of those ones that I think we're going to see for some time. that I think we're going to see for some time. And, you know, there's another $80 billion in a separate COVID disaster relief program that we haven't even really scratched the surface of. So I think you'll, you actually will see in the news reports, they're actually starting to call things out. And the one that I remember very vividly is that there was a gentleman in irving irvine california that bought um a ferrari and there's a picture of that person and the ferrari so when

you think about this these are not always this fraud in some cases it's extravagant you know yachts boats houses um and that makes the case easier to solve and easier to go after because the department of justice has a tangible hey you, you bought this $350,000 car. We know that you didn't have the income to do that, and that makes it really easy in some senses for the cases to come to a quicker close. So we'll continue to monitor that, and we'll watch that, and we'll keep the audience here updated. Just real quick on the breach front, we talk about cyber instances all the time. Microsoft did finally confirm that there was a breach and still a lot of information coming out about this. I think as early as Friday, there was even more information.

This breach is a little bit different than some of the other ones we talked about because it leaks their source code being leaked. So this breach affects source code. What Microsoft has publicly stated is that their source code related to Cortana, which is their voice assistant Bing, and then some other programs. Why this is risky is because obviously in a non open source platform, source code is what potentially keeps things safe. Even an open source platform, it does. So the risk for everybody here is we don't necessarily know what information was leaked and what that leads to for potential security holes as well.

You can actually go to the dark web today and purchase Microsoft credentials that were part of this leak. I'm not 100% sure because I haven't actually validated what those credentials do, but basically what the reporting is saying is that there are Microsoft internal credentials. At this point, I don't want to make any assumptions, but I'm sure a lot of that has been addressed. The other thing that was compromised is credentials to access VPN and internal facing devices and systems. So this is a pretty significant breach. And I think all of this information at this point is still not necessarily confirmed. There was another breach recently that was pretty significant too, which was a company called Okta.

And Okta is actually a single sign-on or a middleman for sign-ons. So the concern there is Okta actually manages sign-ons for major organizations. That's what they do. So if you're in the IT space and you ever think here of the terminology or non single sign-on or active directory, Okta actually confirmed that they had a breach in January last week.

And actually, there are screenshots of their internal network and information available on the dark web today. I did actually see some of the screenshots i went out and looked to see what i would see just because um they're the implications of a breach when you have a third-party provider that manages login potential obviously there to me that is just as significant as the microsoft one and it's probably um unknown of what the risk is today. What I saw was really just screenshots, though, screenshots of validating that the breach actually did happen. So I think there's just, you know, continue to talk about the data breach piece, and I'll just touch on one more. And Samsung also had a breach of not, you know, there was about 190 to 300 gigabytes of information that was taken, a lot of code and screenshots here. And it looks at this stage that at least two of those breaches are related to the same hacking group.

So why is that kind of, there's a relationship there. I think that it's still a little bit unknown if that's actually 100% accurate. I think with all these hacking groups, it's very hard to validate exactly who does what. I feel like it's almost like a terrorist where a lot of people take responsibility until you actually see the information. But the hacking group is, whoops, cyber attacks. So they're using a whole bunch of different methodology here. But one of the things I would say is that this is a very significant, significant group. There is some kind of bright side to this, if you will, is that there were seven teenagers arrested last week in

relationship to the group. I believe all of them were in the UK. But so as we've talked about before, this group is responsible for Ubisoft, NVIDIA, Microsoft, and Samsung. So breach, ransomware, cyber incidents. I want to use the word cyber incidents, I forgot to say that at the beginning, because it's not always ransomware or breach. So it's a pretty prolific group. And they're obviously somewhat capable, because if you look at the list there, Nvidia, Samsung, Okta, Microsoft, sort of some substantial technology companies with really, really robust technology capabilities. And seven people were arrested between the ages of 16 and 21 in conjunction with the investigation.

I think it's still a little bit early to know what that means. Were they actually a part of the breaking into the systems or were they perpetrators? Were they delivering information? There'll definitely be more to come. The Verge actually wrote a good piece on it to talk about it. And then just two other kind of cyber incident pieces. And I think there's one thing is there's a serious security ransomware out there today that's called Deadbolt. And one of the things that this has been out since January of 2021, but now we're starting to see this resurface in March. And the interesting part here is this ransomware, not only does it lock up your files, but it is specifically designed to attack backups. So when we talk about backing up your files, that's usually one of the things we

say is that back up your files for ransomware. If do that that's your best line of defense but as we've said all along we continue to see a more intelligent attack vectors um and using the same technologies that we are to thought off attacks they are using artificial intelligence and machine learning and with some of these ransomware attacks they lay dormant and look for the appropriate time to attack or take advantage of the system. And then last, but certainly not least, is if you use the Chrome browser, you want to make sure that you're updated to the most recent version of their software. There was a pretty significant security vulnerability identified. It was a zero-day vulnerability, which means they had no pre-information about this. This was something that happened and then got out. This zero-day was reported back in February, but now has been

patched. And I think the interesting part is they were listed by the CV that the threat analyst groups were listing them as not a serious threat, but the reality here is that these do open you up to a significant vulnerability. The likelihood of it being taken advantage of, it really depends on whose report you read. But if your simple thing here is if you're using um uh chrome today it's just go ahead and make sure you have that updated and we always talk about this on the on the podcast here's update your systems patch early patch often uh your phones your systems everything and i'm constantly seeing people but both personally and

professionally that say they don't want to update their phones until they hear whether the update is okay, whether there's bugs. And what I can tell you is the bugs that you will find in an update will not anywhere near be comparable what will occur if you have your phone with a vulnerability and somebody getting your personal data. So please patch, patch early, patch often and update. And I'll just circle back real quick on ISC West because I thought it was something that Tony and I always talk about. We always talk about digital transformation every time we're together. But one thing I saw at ISC West this year that was different than past years is we've seen the word AI used everywhere for many years, and I often say sometimes it's a buzzword. But what I saw this year at ISC West is a lot of true machine learning, a lot of video analytics solutions, imaging solutions, data analytics solutions. solutions, data analytics solutions, really a lot of things where modeling was being implemented in real fashions, where in the past, I'm not downplaying the AI piece because AI is using

a computer to mimic human behavior. But really, this year, I was pleased and impressed to see the number of solutions out there in the space that really, really were taking advantage of the machine learning aspects and allowing machines to have yes, new human programmed algorithms, but that learned the actual environment they were in and whether that was a physical security application, a data application, or, you know, a video AI or computer vision application, what was really nice was to see that as digital transformation occurs, that the full use of the availability of AI and ML was being taken advantage of. So, with that, I will turn it back over to Reed. Thanks so much again, Tony and Tom, for all the great

information and all the sharing. A lot to think about and get better at. I want to thank Diego Rodriguez, our producer. Most of all, I want to thank you, all the listeners. Stay in touch with us. Let us know what you need. We're always at operations at lpresearch.org. And your ideas, your questions, your thoughts are always, always welcome. episodes and valuable information at lpresearch.org. The content provided in the Crime Science Podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for legal, financial, or other advice. Views expressed by guests of the Crime Science Podcast are those of the authors and do not reflect the opinions or positions of the Loss Prevention Research Council.