LPRC - Episode 4 – The Evolution of Retail LP

Episode Date: March 16, 2018

The post Episode 4 – The Evolution of Retail LP appeared first on Loss Prevention Research Council.

Hi everyone, welcome back to Crime Science. With this podcast, we'll explore helpful topics about preventing crime and loss, the science that's the driving force behind these processes, and we'll also hear about and discuss real-life examples from loss prevention and asset protection practitioners and other crime prevention professionals. Back with us today is co-host Dr. Reid Hayes, Director of the Loss Prevention Research Council, co-host Tom Meehan, Chief Strategy Officer at ControlTech,

and our featured guest today to give his take on the evolution of retail LP is Chad McIntosh, Vice President of Loss Prevention and Risk Management at Bloomingdale's. Welcome everybody again to another issue of Crime Science made possible by the Loss Prevention Research Council. Today, we're going to talk about the evolution, the history, and a little bit about the future of loss prevention or asset protection. And particularly from the standpoint of industry leaders, in this case, we've got a distinguished visitor on this podcast with us, Chad McIntosh. My colleague and co-host Tom Meehan will introduce Chad and talk a little bit about what they've been through together in the trenches of LP and now AP. But I think it's

an important topic. It's hopefully something that helps us all set context and understand where we've been, where we are, and where we're going from all standpoints, from the structure, from the context that we're working in, from technologies and tactics that we use, from the positions, the titles, where we are in the organization, and then what all that means. What do we need to do next to get better and better? So, Tom, if I can, I'd like to go over to you and get your introductions. I appreciate it. Well, thank you, Reid.

And thank you, Chad, for joining us. I'll go ahead and turn over to Chad in just a minute. But Chad is the Vice President of Asset Protection and Risk Management for Bloomingdale's. And full disclosure for anybody who doesn't know my background, Chad and I worked together at Bloomingdale's and Macy's Inc. for just about 14 years. And I worked directly for Chad for several years. So it's both an honor and a pleasure to have Chad on the podcast, Feels Like Home. So super excited to be able to share some of the things that Chad and I experienced. And I know that Chad has over 40 years of asset protection

experience. He's figured out how to have a 40-year career and only be 21 years old, so he'll help us all understand that. Chad, thanks for joining us this afternoon. Do you want to tell the group a little bit about what your role is today at Bloomingdale's? Yeah, thank you, Tom. Thank you, Reed. I appreciate the invitation. that the topic is important for all of us to keep in front of us, not only learning from the past, but also how do we predict where we're going to go in the future. So as Tom said, my title at Bloomingdale

is VP of Asset Protection and Risk Management. So I have the safety and the shortage side of the business, business continuity, crisis management, certainly the job from the time that I started and I've been with Bloomingdale's nine years at this point and the job has changed dramatically in those nine years. So that's really what kind of makes this topic that kind of drives it home for me. In fact, you know, I think our role in the organization has changed so much. When I came back, we called ourselves loss prevention.

And we realized that that no longer really described what we do, not only in Bloomingdale's, but in the industry today. do not only in Bloomingdale's but in the industry today. So we changed the name of our department to asset protection really to kind of dramatize for everybody and explain for everybody what we actually do today. It's gotten bigger than just the shortage aspect, internal and external theft if you will, and the safety aspect of it. So I think about the number of changes, Tom, that you and I have been through in the last nine years. It's very, very dramatic, but it will pale in comparison to the changes that we'll all see in retail in the next five years. Well, thank you, Chad. And that actually leads

right into my first question is, with all of the evolution that has occurred in the last five years, and I would even limit to the last three years, how do you prepare yourself as an asset protection leader for the future? Well, it's interesting. One, you have to go through a continuous learning process, by the way. Everybody should be learning new new information new processes every day when you think about asset protection or loss prevention you know we built a big part of our strategy around a thousand pound register that sat in one place on the floor never moved that's not the norm today everything is mobile POS so you've got to think differently in putting together a strategy you have to anticipate I think if I gave everybody

one word to walk away with from the podcast today it's anticipate how do you figure out where your next big challenge is going to come how do you start learning that those processes that are going on in your store so that you can anticipate where your challenges where your exposures are going on in your store so that you can anticipate where your challenges, where your exposures are going to be. So I think it's a process of continuous learning. I think you have to look, let's take investigations as one element of asset protection today. So you have to look at non-traditional ways of investigating employee dishonesty in the store because it's no longer occurring at a point of sale that's not moving around. So it's moving non-traditional ways of investigating employee dishonesty in the store because

it's no longer occurring at a point of sale that's not moving around so it's moving around or it's merchandise that you're moving from store to store having a customer come in buy online and pick up in store all these variables that five years ago Bloomingdale's did not transfer merchandise period now we're doing it at light speed today. So you've got to look for other ways to find the integrity issues, if you will, or the exposures to shortage in the organization. So it really requires a group of people to think differently in how they approach problem solving. So one of the questions I had was really related to data. I know really in every business, there's this data that's been never available before, whether you have analytics on what customers are doing, marketing data, all of those things. How do you think data plays a role in asset protection today differently than it did three years ago?

it did three years ago. You know, one thing is social media and the amount of information that comes out of social media today. If you're not paying attention to it, you really have to have a process because the volume that you get from social media is unmanageable, by the way. So, you've got to have a process that allows you to look for the exceptions so that you know and can predict if something's coming in your direction. Is somebody talking about theft at Bloomingdale's? Are they planning to come in and take advantage of you and your department store? That's one aspect of the data. And then you really have to kind of put a holistic model together so that you can assign risk by location and really plan your strategy around the risk associated with a particular store.

So we built a model, Tom and one of his team members built a model for me that really took a look at 43 different aspects and bits of information both within the four walls of the Bloomingdale stores and environmentally. So we took a very holistic approach and really took a look at how the numbers factored out, did some regression analysis, and really assigned risk levels to stores. We have four risk levels. I would assume it's probably easier for people to understand if you do a high, medium, and low. But it really helped us define where we were going to make our investments in the future,

where we needed to kind of do some target hardening, if you will, so that we look tougher than the other guy to the bad guys. So, Chad, you've been in LPAP for a while. You've been with different organizations. Can you give us kind of a look back? What have been the titles of the organization that you've been in and now head? What have been sort of the titles of the senior leader of those organizations? How has that changed? And what have you seen over your career? Yeah, I think it's, you know, director of security was my first boss. His name was Lou Sheely. And Lou Sheely, this was in Washington, D.C.

And Lou Sheely at the time was, you know, one of the real voices in asset protection or loss prevention in those days, security, and talking about preventing shoplifting and things like that, especially during the holiday season, and would literally go on a campaign there in a D.C. area that was picked up in several cities. So he got me thinking differently about approaching how to solve the problem and not necessarily apprehend everybody in the world. And then I moved on to an organization where there was a director of loss prevention. And then I reported to Gary Manson at Neiman Marcus, and Gary was the director of loss prevention there.

Gary had, again, a big thinker, had a different approach to loss prevention. But again, he wasn't defined by purely catching bad guys. He wanted to solve the shortage problem at Neiman Marcus and it required to look at things differently, look at the processes that were going on in the store. And then I worked for Ed Wolfe at Home Depot and Ed Wolfe was the first VP of loss prevention that I worked for. And if you know Ed, Ed's a big thinker and thinks differently. Probably where I learned the most about solving shortage was at Home Depot and really analyzing what was going on from a transactional basis that was driving shortage in that environment.

So I've seen security, I've seen loss prevention, and now asset protection, my role as the VP of asset protection. And I think it's important that the top role, depending on the organization, they're all called a little bit differently. Some are directors, some are VPs, certainly some are senior VPs, but it's all the top position. And if you're in the top role in the organization, then you have a responsibility to be the voice of your team, to be out there, to be present, to be driving change in the organization, and really kind of supporting your team as they grow through the process and making things better for them, helping them to achieve more than they thought they could, quite frankly.

No, that's great stuff, Chad. And, um, I do remember, of course, both of those gentlemen very well, um, and had the opportunity to work with, not for, I guess, but, um, with, uh, both of those guys. And, uh, and I, but I really liked the way, um, you had the opportunity to think about prevention more than reaction and apprehension. And we know there are thieves, there are fraudsters, there are violent criminals that do need to be apprehended. They're just not paying attention or they don't care. And so they're creating insurmountable problems sometimes unless we have them incapacitated. In other words, detained by law enforcement but um and you may even remember before my time and yours i believe but guys like bob curtis or you heard the name kirk barefoot and so on these guys back

in the day uh rich laux and so on but the these were guys too that i can recall to your point chad that uh they were really trying to look at things a little differently, barefoot probably via more about investigative-type things and being more sophisticated there to take rings out and make it more likely you're going to get caught. And then Bob Curtis was trying any kind of crazy thing you could think of and put it in the stores to see what would happen. But that's good perspective.

And I thought the other thing to take a look at has been, you know, the focus since I've been in the business has been on reducing loss, reducing shrinkage, what's old is new and new is old and things like that. But I look back at Bob Curtis' book the other day and saw a real focus on what you hear now, total loss prevention. And I saw, I'm trying to remember the other gentleman, there's a 1958 book that I've got in my library here, and the same focus on don't just look at inventory shrinkage. Look at all your threats, all your losses, and try and prioritize those. One thing I was going to ask you about, Chad, as well,

is how has the process changed? Have you seen or implemented, in your case as well, more analytics? What's that look like in the different organizations? It was really neat kind of going back with you with the different organizations you've been with from a leadership standpoint, what you learned. But what about from an analytical and a prioritization type standpoint? Yeah, I think information and knowledge is king. So literally our approach to

asset protection has changed dramatically in the last couple of years. I had an advantage when Tom was part of my team and some of the skills that he has that nobody else on the team has, but we're actually taking a couple of people to develop some of those skills. I don't know that we'll get to Tom's level or not, but that's important. I think that it's really, it's taking a approach, and that's why the Loss Prevention Research Council means so much to me personally, 18 years ago when we started the thought process. And you know, LP, AP guys are very effective at fixing problems. We will throw four or five different things at the problem. We will fix it.

But in the past, we were never quite sure what's the one most important thing that really fixed it. Where do you need to make your investments going forward? So, you know, just using the thought process behind LPRC and the analytics that go into it and the science that goes into it. analytics that go into it and the science that goes into it and really it's it's really from an offender standpoint you know the see it get it fear thought process behind that and making sure that whatever you put in place doesn't impact the customer but impacts the bad guy that kind of thing so what what information can you draw out of a store today that will allow you to to put things in place to to impact profitability so we're taking

a look at using the analytics that we have behind the platform that we use to train associates today with that we started in 2010 just focused on safety it's now sales and service any number of things so we're working on a prediction tool from a shortage standpoint we're working on a prediction tool from a turnover standpoint any number of variables that that you can define we believe that we have enough information that we can start predicting these events occurring in the store. Tell a general manager if you don't correct course, this is what your shortage is going

to look like. A bit like what we did several years ago, Reed, together at Home Depot when we looked at 136 bits of information, came down with a great eight, and were able to predict shortage within two-tenths of a percent with 95% accuracy. Anybody can do that today, by the way. The information is there. You may need somebody that can do some regression analysis for you, but the information is there that will point you in the direction where your challenges are. The information is there that will point you in the direction where your challenges are. There's this perception in the asset protection world that people that have been in the business for more than 30 years can't be progressive.

And I often say that you're one of the most progressive leaders that I've ever worked for, both from a leadership standpoint. And you mentioned learning and the technology and growth. What could you say to some of your peers out there, regardless of how long they've been in the industry, to help them embrace technology, embrace progressive methods? If you had one piece of advice, what would it be? Well, you know, I'm sitting here. I have a glass office that looks out on my team of millennials, by the way. They're driving innovation as much as I am, by the way. They're making me look at things differently than I have traditionally to really kind of anticipate how do I keep them focused,

how do I keep them energized and engaged in the process. And it really is that, I mean, retail has changed so much. If you're not looking at it differently today because of the change then you're going to get left behind and and really in today's world where I think everybody struggles with resources you have to you have to maintain credibility in your organization and you have to do some marketing around what you're doing in the value that you add to your organization and you have to look some marketing around what you're doing and the value that you add to your organization. And you have to look at things differently than you did 10 years ago, 20 years ago, if you're an old timer like me, 30 years ago, that kind of thing.

Because the landscape has changed dramatically. And if you don't change with it, then you're going to you're literally going to become obsolete in the process So I I don't want it that to happen to anybody so Look for ways to improve the process one of the things that we did here at Bloomingdale's Plus we changed the way that we train associates in our stores from from the standpoint of we use a platform that uses brain science and gamification really to train safety in our stores. And it's been a game changer for us. We saved over $10 million in claims reduction.

So it's something that you've got to find ways to engage the store population. And when you look at retail today, there are four generations working in our stores today. So you have to figure out new ways to bring them all together and get them engaged in the message that you want to achieve. And as a senior leader in an organization like Bloomingdale's, and I know that you've worked for many great organizations as a senior leader, And, you know, I know that you've worked for many great organizations as a senior leader. Today, with all of the news and doom and gloom about retail, how do you keep the teams positive and focused on, you know, keep continuing to move forward when there's that constant cloud of the, you know, there's stores are closing, you know, things are going to cut?

How do you keep people positive on that team? So one of the things that we do, and I think the team here does it very, very well, is that from an educational standpoint, we offer up all the certification processes that are outside of Bloomingdale's. We offer that up to anybody that has an interest. So we keep them engaged, we keep them growing. I don't believe we'll hold on to everybody forever, by the way. But my goal in the process is that a stronger them is a better us kind of thought process. So whatever I can get from them in the time that they're with us, that if they're smarter, better, better prepared, then they're going to execute better. They're going to have confidence that anything that comes along, they'll be able to handle. That's how I keep people engaged at Bloomingdale's. And I would say that the landscape has changed.

Everybody has to do more with less, that kind of thing. And we've, you know, we've taken a position in an organization in combining roles in our store from an operation AP perspective. And that's a challenging process. It certainly feels like the, you know, the opportunities are fewer. And I would tell everybody that they have to stop thinking about a linear career. So you need to think broader, by the way. So we've had AP managers go off and become HR managers. We certainly have several that are in this dual role responsibility, picking up operations in the store. So you have to think differently about your career. You also have to have flexibility in it too, by the way. And from the standpoint,

if you want to stay in one location, it may take longer to you achieving your career goals, by the way. The opportunities may not come as quick as they would if you're willing to move or relocate and take on an opportunity someplace else. if you're willing to move or relocate and take on an opportunity someplace else. So today, with all of those dual roles and changes, when you're looking for an asset protection person, are there different qualities that you looked for 20 years ago, or is it the same qualities that you're looking for? I think it's different. We started a program here at Bloomingdale's and we called it APMI, Asset Protection Manager Intensified. And we were looking for decommissioned officers coming out of the military, not really focused on a particular

branch. Most of these folks had gone through one of the service academies. So they were coming into our world with a great deal of leadership. That is the piece that I think would probably take us longest to develop somebody with. I think that we can train the technical aspects of asset protection loss prevention to almost anybody.

And depending on their aptitude, it may take a little bit longer. But certainly having a very structured process that allows them to pick up the basics and then having a support structure for them has been important to us. So I would say that we're looking for good leadership, people that like to work well with others, people that can influence without authority. So you have to be able to work through other people to get things done. We had put a timestamp to the job of an asset protection manager at Bloomingdale's at one point, and I think it was 105 hours in a week to get everything done. So you gotta be able to work through others

to get things done in our environment, and I'm sure it's just like many other environments, quite frankly, influencing without authority. And then being a great communicator, because you have to be the person that's the face and the voice in the store, and stand up in front of the store family or with management to really kind of sell them on the concept and the idea where we want to go from

an asset protection standpoint. One thing I thought too I'd like to ask you, Chad, is, you know, what are some of the cultural changes you've seen in your career and where we are now as far as how LP or AP are viewed by the rest of the organization. I know that varies in place by location as well as in time, but what has been, as far as your position or the LP or AP position, where were you in the pecking order? How well were you able or were you trying to work closely with other counterparts, with your counterparts in your organization? Yeah, I think collaboration and working with the counterparts is critical to be successful today.

Certainly, there are meetings or processes or plans going on throughout the organization on a regular basis, that could impact asset protection or loss prevention. Somebody in one of those meetings could make a decision that's going to impact you and you may not be happy about it. So you've got to be connected with your business partners in your organization to truly be effective. So we moved a couple of years ago to a different

office building. Most of my business partners are all on the same floor now. I think that our relationships and our partnerships have gotten stronger, better. So they think differently now. So I know if they're rolling out a process, they may think, well, we probably need to get Chad involved and talk to him about fraud, whatever the program is, whatever the aspect is, to get his opinion or get his viewpoint on how we make it stronger, better, and more partnerships are critical today. Asset protection really can't be an isolated function in a store today. So much is going on that you need to be a part of. One of the things that I think has led to a successful career for me is that I raise my hand and volunteer for things that nobody else wants to. I want to get involved in other aspects of the organization so that senior management in the organization sees the value that I'm trying to bring to the organization. And something may come along that they'll think about me in a different light and get

me involved in other things. And I know in the last couple of years, they've been involved in sprint committees and big committees that have defined the way that Bloomingdale's will operate in the future. And that's because, you know, I stuck my hand out and I volunteered for things nobody else wanted to do. Yeah, it's interesting, and it does really feel like, and as we interview our members, that things continue to progress. They realize that certainly the LP or AP function are not there to drive the organization, but are to enable the organization to do what they want to achieve their objectives. But I can remember back when I was back in LP 20 years ago, and our company decided that they were going to implement a cosmetics department. We were probably the last department to realize that.

In fact, construction started by the time we got word as to what the construction was going on in our stores. And as you well know, and in many of our listeners as well, cosmetic inventory losses shrink can be several times, which you might be used to in some apparel types. And so essentially, we were called back in a dramatic fashion to brainstorm a series of deterrent measures and implement them retroactively. Unfortunately, after the department opened across the board, losses were double-digit and so on. So it's always heartening to hear that increasingly LPAP decision-makers in departments and key figures are included in the strategy, in the planning, rather than called in after the fact.

To your point, I think it's critical that you're as proactive as possible. I mean, our organization is going down the path of self-checkout. And when you think about self-checkout, there's environments where it works pretty well, drugstores and grocery stores and even Home Depot places like that but when you think about ready-to-wear and having to take a security tag off and the the challenges associated with that if you don't you know stick your nose in the process or get involved in the process then the organization may make the decision, well, we're just going to untag everything and not tag security tag anything

anymore in the store. So it's amazing how much change we're going through in retail today. And again, I think Tom pointed out, we're going to go through a lot more in the next three years, much less five years, so it's exciting. It's exciting. I did want to point out, I think you made a huge call out, Chad, that we don't always want to sit back and earn our way into that inner circle, earn respect and so on. I think that's clearly part of it, but what I think I'm hearing you say as well is, you know, you kind of need to nose your way in there sometimes to raise your hand, to volunteer, to push a little bit, because you

know, we know that we really need to protect the assets. We need to help make these people and places safer. So we've got to be proactive as well. So I have a question that, you know, not meant to be controversial, but I hear a lot of back and forth about violence related to apprehensions. You know, what are your thoughts on that? Do you see an increase in violence? What's causing it from your opinion? What are some of the things that folks can do to kind of control that in their environment? It's a topic that, you know, Reid and I hear pretty much every time we talk to someone that violence has increased, violence has increased. And for a while, I thought it really

was related to convenience stores and, you know, drug stores. But as I continue to talk to people, I hear this upswing in violence, and I know some of the things that we shared together. So what are your thoughts on it? Is it actually increasing, or is the perception that it's increasing because the information is more readily available? And, you know, what are your thoughts on it? Is it actually increasing or is the perception that's increasing because the information is more readily available? And, you know, what are some things that you're doing at Bloomingdale's that are working and what suggestions could you make? Yeah, I think I don't know if it's increasing. I haven't I haven't seen any statistics on a hard, hard statistics on it. But, you know, because everybody's got a smartphone, everybody's a reporter, by the way, so you hear about it a lot more. We took a position a couple of years ago to really provide safe apprehension training for our asset protection detectives, if you will, that was based on a process that police officers in Great Britain go through

in non-escalation, de-escalation training to kind of be aware of the signs when something could escalate beyond your control and actually kind of talk them back into the AP office, if you will, so that you could process things safely. We saw a dramatic reduction in the number of resistance that we saw in our apprehensions based on that training. And there are a couple of great courses out there that anybody can do any research on to find better ways of training your store detectives if you have them today and you're making apprehensions that will arm them with better information to really kind of bring that back safely so we've had a lot of success with the

training process it takes follow-up by the way every time you get a new store detective you got to train them on the process because they could initiate an apprehension and we found there was a very strong relationship between wanting to put handcuffs on people and the resistance that we saw in making an apprehension so we try and balance those those activities along with the training to ensure that our our associates don't get hurt on the job. As an asset protection leader, that's the thing that keeps me awake at night. One of our associates getting hurt trying to make an apprehension for some merchandise that's not worth anybody getting hurt over, quite frankly.

I appreciate that response. Again, it's unfair because I was thinking you were going to say that. So we worked together so closely on that one. So I remember some of the things. And again, I think Bloomingdale's has a world-class program. And I second your notion to research. There's a lot of great programs out there. So the next question is really more of an opinion-based.

And this is something that you and I did together, but I know you have some experience with some of the other companies you worked out related to e-commerce. So the dot-com world, how does an asset protection person define their role in helping reduce fraud and shortage related to dot-com? Yeah, I think it starts with, you know, finding out who the person responsibility is for e-commerce and your environment, and really kind of asking for a seat at the table to really kind of talk about how we can help in the process and improve profitability. When you look at e-commerce and fraud activity, there's a real exposure there for any organization.

There's a real opportunity there for any asset protection leader today and getting involved in that process and then, again, learning, going in and learning to figure out where the exposures are, where your best opportunities are to really kind of add value in the process. And I know there are asset protection teams today that are very involved in e-commerce. Find out who's in charge of it in your organization and go and talk to them about how the process works, where you can add value, and how you can make a contribution to that very important piece of the business today when you think about how fast it's growing. So, and we talk about asset protection, and I started just 20 years ago. And when I started, it was that a lot of companies were going from security to loss prevention, where it was no more cops and robbers. Now there's safety involved.

And as I look at the landscape globally, not just in the U.S., you're starting to see everybody is transitioning from loss prevention to asset protection. And then outside of the U.S., you're starting to see the profit protection, but the same kind of principles. What were some of the challenges you had with that transition? And was it just a name change to keep, you know, just to keep up with it? Or was it more than that for you? No, I think it was a mindset change and a cultural change at Bloomingdale's. We wanted, you know, one of the things that I've always spoken to AP leadership in our

organization, you got to market what you do on a regular basis so that management knows what you're bringing to the table, the value that you're adding in the organization, those things. So it really was explaining exactly what we were doing, monitoring social media, putting together programs on active shooter, any number of things that really took us beyond just catching bad guys in a loss prevention role. That's what the organization's perception was of us. That's what we did. We caught bad guys. That was, you know, that was a

fraction of what we actually did on a regular basis. You just mentioned active shooter. And I know that all of our listeners put safety first and in our environment, our folks get injured more than others. But when you talk about active shooter today, it seems to be a topic that comes up daily, you know, on the news and the media and not getting into the political side of it. Have you had to change the way you've done things with Bloomingdale's as far as an active shooter? And can you share some of the things that you've done at Bloomingdale's and throughout your career and how the evolution has changed? Yeah, I think it, I think it's a, it's a topic for everybody because you're right, you hear about it almost on a daily basis someplace in the news. And really, what we're trying to impart on our

store families is that this is a life lesson. It's not just a Bloomingdale's lesson because an event is more likely to occur in a mall and a food court than it is in a Bloomingdale's lesson because an event is more likely to occur in a mall and a food court than it is in a Bloomingdale's store. So we want them to think bigger about the process. We want them to go home and talk to their kids. We want them to go home and share it with the rest of their family. We had an asset protection associate in Las Vegas when the Las Vegas event occurred. He knew exactly what to do. He knew exactly what to do with his family to get his family to safety. And he shared that with me.

And I got a lot of gratification from that, that we're changing the thinking in our associates to think bigger about that process and those events, knowing not where the primary exit is, but where's the secondary one in case you can't get out that first one. And that's kind of how the process works for us today when we train our store family. We bring them together. We educate them on the types of events that are occurring, give them some of the kind of the FBI statistics on it, and we ask them to go back to their department. We make the announcement that we would make

if an event were occurring in our store, and that prompts them to go and look for their primary exit. And then when they come back to us and say, all right, where was number one? And then we ask them where was number two, and they've got to think about it. So we're making them think differently. And we've had it tested a couple times. Our process tested a couple times in Florida, quite frankly.

And the stores have reacted exactly the way that they've been trained to. So getting people out safely or to a safe position where they can remain unharmed. So I feel good about what we're doing today. Is it a perfect process? I don't know. I don't think it is. I think it's something that you can never walk away from in the discussion. Anytime there's an event, you want to remind those stores in that particular geographic area that the event just occurred. Talk to the store family at the next morning rally. Remind them of the good practices that we have in place to ensure their safety. One other thing I want to ask you about, Chad, what do you see are some of the future needs?

And you and Tom have talked a little bit about this so far on the podcast, but what are some upcoming challenges? I know we're moving merchandise around. We're trying to get merchandise to satisfied customers in a lot of different ways. That continues to evolve. You mentioned in the next three to five years, and we all know in the next three to five months, things are continuing to change or will continue to change here. But what are some future threats, some future needs that you have or that you see that the LPRC and others can help you work on? Yeah, it's really trying to define your program in an omni-channel world and how you be successful. omni-channel world and how you be successful. Taking a look at technology, how can you put technology in place that gives you information

or allows a team to determine what's going on in their environment so they can change their focus or you can point them in the right direction to solve a problem. So it's thinking beyond that original strategy of the 1,000-pound register that didn't move. How do you adopt new processes that will help you through technology? Because you're probably not going to get any more resources to go into the store. So you need technology to do the work for you. What are the things that are coming along that are out there today that can help you with that process? How can you leverage RFID information if your company is involved in RFID? How can you leverage RFID and video together if your company is involved in those processes. And then I think it's looking at things differently.

So I have a theory and we're going to test it on dwell time. So I believe that dwell time for a good customer is X and dwell time for a bad guy is Y. So when you get to Y, how do you send a message to the camera room if you have a camera room or to the radios of a manager or an asset protection detective to tell them that you've reached Y in men's denim? You have somebody down there that you need to pay attention to. if you have teams in your store, to give them better information to react to it instead of just kind of panning around, maybe picking up on somebody in the store

that they need to pay attention to, but how to use technology really to kind of giving them that kind of focus on where the challenges are that they need to address. Okay, that's great feedback. And it's interesting, like you say, Chad, and what you described in that scenario does a lot of things at the same time, not only does it help reduce the merchandise loss and make it available for the good paying customer, but you're doing what you're harnessing technology and tactics to accomplish a mission rather than trying to just do it on your own or put it off on somebody else. So that's a great analogy and case study description. Tom and Chad, what we'll do is we'll kind of wrap here. Tom, did you have a compelling question or anything else you want to make sure we got on tape, if you will? got on tape, if you will. You hit the nail on the head. The question I had was really,

I had two and you hit both of them. One was really about the LPRC and the value that it added. And I think for any of the listeners that are listening, I encourage you to reach out to the members directly, folks like Chad, who I know is always available. One thing working for Chad taught me is that no matter who it is, you always call them back, you always email them back. So I can guarantee you if you ask a question about anything, you'll get a response. And I encourage people to go out because there is still some folks that aren't aware of the LPRC. This podcast is available to the general public, so hopefully if you're involved in retail or law enforcement or science and the research is related to crime, the LPRC is a great resource for you.

And this is one of the member benefits, but we're extending it to the general public so that people learn about it and you know I'd like to thank Chad for joining it's always fun for me to talk to Chad it brings a little bit of warmth to the heart and a tear to the eye because we had some really amazing times and when you talk about the evolution we got to have a ton of fun but we also experienced some of the toughest things in retail that probably could have occurred from store closings to market crashes to silver disturbances that haven't been seen since the 60s to, you know, terrorist events. So really

exciting stuff, but really goes right back to what we talked about today and how quickly and rapidly things are changing and how important it is to continue to learn, continue to reach out. And, you know, the selfish plug for the LPRC is really that this is an organization that helps with all of those things because you have the benefit of getting a hundred people with the same problem together to solve it versus a few. people with the same problem together to solve it versus a few. Excellent. Thanks for all that, Tom. And again, also thank you, Chad, for all your insights, the benefit of your wisdom as well. I'd also like to thank the crime science team, Kevin Tran, our producer, Jordan Burchell, who is our technical director. So until next time, this is Reed Hayes signing off for Crime Science from the LPRC.