Macrodosing: Arian Foster and PFT Commenter - Allegedly

Episode Date: March 30, 2021

On today's episode of Macrodosing, you'll hear a breakdown on what the crew thinks are the most "allegedly" wrongfully accused people in history. It is a can't miss show. Buckle up and enjoy!!! 2:20 Hell is hot today 6:35 The Devil gets a bad rap 9:07 Is it legal to sell human blood? 23:00 Allegedly 25:50 I grew up thinking MJ was guilty 42:00 What was a grown man doing with kids all the time? 1:15:00 O.J. and Jason Simpson 1:20:00 Jason Simpson mental illness 1:23:00 Would you take a murder charge for your child? 1:30:45 Is it good or bad that O.J. has PFT blocked on Twitter? 1:33:00 Scott Peterson 1:39:00 The pliers 1:43:45 Satanic cult? 1:47:30 Meringue cookies 1:53:00 Death sentence overturned 1:55:30 Porn channels 2:00:00 More porn channels 2:05:00 The missing phone call 2:12:00 Rank all three from most innocent to most guiltyYou can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/macrodosing

Hey, macro dosing listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Welcome back to another episode of Macro-dosing. It's a pleasure to have you back. We appreciate it. We get a full house again today. The McMahon is Skyped in. We got Arian Foster.

We got Billy in the studio. We got Big T in the studio. We have Avery mastering the controls, producing, doing everything else that you do. don't hear us do on the microphones. This is an episode that I'll be honest. I put my hand up. I was a little chicken shit to do it right off the bat. I, Arian and I discussed this two months ago when we were talking about the concept for the show, different episodes that we wanted to do. And I was like, I don't know about that one. I chickened out a little bit on it, but I feel like now is as good a time as ever to do it. I know that Arian's fired up about it. So what we're

going to do is uh so arian had the idea to do an episode on uh michael jackson because after doing some research uh and i think arian you were telling me that like you thought that michael jackson was guilty as hell like a hundred percent guilty and you dug into a little bit and now you're questioning stuff and i was like you know what i just didn't want i didn't want our first podcast to come out and to say like uh macro dosing episode one michael jackson is innocent you know i would a thousand percent have wanted that to happen that'd have been amazing so this is actually going to be the wrongfully accused episode we've all got some people that we want to talk about that we feel were wrongfully accused wrongfully convicted things

of that nature and michael jackson is going to be one of the three first ones that we get into. But before we do, little current events going on, hell is hot in the streets right now. We're actually talking, we're talking before the episode started. And Big T is actually, Big T is so happy today because he was one of a thousand people that copped the new Lil Nas X sneaker. No. And he can't wait.

He can't wait. He's fired. He's a hype beast. But we were talking. He got some red draws on today, huh? I did. I bought some. I bought some new Jordan ones yesterday.

Those are pretty cool. Okay. Is there any blood on them? No. I'm out then. They're white and gray. Well, they're made by Nike. So yes.

But these shoes, see, these shoes, Nike didn't make these shoes. Some company bought a thousand pairs or whatever Nike show was and then they made them. Right. Exactly. It's like buying, it's like buying a Chevy Silverado and putting truck nuts on it. Sure. And then Chevy is like, hey, you can't sell these trucks with truck nuts on it aftermarket. Yeah.

That's a modification that doesn't align with our brand's values. But yeah. We should probably get into a little bit of Lil Nas X just because I saw you tweeting about him yesterday, Aaron. And I think we kind of agree that Lil Nas X is like a masterful promoter when it comes to this sort of thing. Like he's figured out a way to push all the right buttons. And now he's making a shitload of money. People are talking about his music video. And he's just kind of playing the internet like a fiddle.

There's no better human being at working the internet right now currently than Lil Nas X. He's a child of the internet, and he works that shit. He is a master at that shit. And he's doing exactly what he intended to do. It's to cause controversy and stir up shit and the people to listen to his music. And it's working. Got governors tweeting about his shit. It's wild.

It's wild. Yeah, he's definitely promoting himself. And it's crazy because it couldn't have worked out anymore perfectly for him. Like if nobody was talking about his sneakers and his music videos aren't getting as many clicks, his Spotify streams aren't going up. Really, Lil Nas X took a song. I think he wrote a song as like a soundtrack, a fake, like, fan art soundtrack to Red Dead Redemption. And then he kind of rode that entire wave all the way to being like the most talked about artist on the internet this month.

So like he's, and he did all those like remixes of Old Town Road too. So he knows like how to strike while the iron's hot and he's pretty damn good at it. But I think that we came to the conclusion before the show that we want to do an episode on hell. The entire concept of hell and where it came from, how it's different among different religions. Because a little known fact about hell, hell isn't really, they don't really talk about hell in the Bible that much. Hell is kind of like a concept that is introduced lightly in the Bible. And then everything else that we know about hell or that we think we know about hell, at least if you're coming from like, a Judeo or more of a Christian background is things that people have written just like speculating like 90% of what we think of hell came from a poem came from Dante when he wrote the inferno like and then he just described what he thought and the funny thing about Dante is like in that in that poem he just basically like put all of his enemies on earth in hell in hell. It was just a big fuck you to his friends that didn't really care for. He's like I'm going to put you in hell in my book. And then that's that's what we think hell is now. But I know Billy was doing some.

a little bit of cursory research into hell. Bill, are you a big believer in hell? Oh, I think, you know, the whole idea and imagery used around hell is actually very interesting because mostly it's mostly pagan. So it's very interesting to see how the church sort of used pagan imagery to symbolize evil to be the antithesis to their dogma. Yeah. Well, we can get into that a little bit next week,

But it's one of many examples of how pagans have kind of like made Christianity convert some of their stuff to appeal to pagans to get them into the church. And like a lot of the Christian, like major religions like Christmas, it's basically like copying paganism so that they'll celebrate Christmas too and like kind of going to what's actually written. Take it out like one step further, man. Like it's like you said, there's a precursor. don't get too deep into it. But like, I'm going to sound like a super weirdo saying this, but like, the devil gets a bad rap. Let me tell you why, though.

Let me tell you why. Like, if you do the actual kill count in the Bible of how many people the devil killed versus how many people God killed, bro, the devil is a good person comparatively. This guy literally flooded an entire earth because he was pissed off. Like, that's wild.

And you drown in like babies and shit, right? So, like, in another instance, this is the last one I'll leave, because this is a precursor. We'll get to it. But like, if you think about, like, the Garden of Eden, right? God tempted people. He invented a tree that said, don't eat from the tree. It's like putting, it's like putting candy in a baby's crib and be like,

don't touch the crib and then leaving and coming back surprised. Like, why would you touch the candy? Like, I'm a baby. That's what I do. So regardless of that, this serpent, right? He says, yo, if you eat this, it'll give you knowledge. that's kind of cool, man. Like, God wanted to keep you ignorant.

And the devil was like, you should probably know things. You should probably know things. And they were like, no. The whole concept is wild to me. I don't worship the devil. I should have prefaced it with that. I don't think that whole should exist. But it's interesting who we deem is good and who we deem is bad and the reasons as to why.

Yeah. And so the devil was like a fallen angel. The devil organized a rebellion. The devil was one of the original victims of cancel culture, you might say. God said I smite I smite I smite thee into

a lake of fire and I think there was ice involved that's another thing that we'll have to get into like is hell hot or is a cold

because I've heard it go both ways it's cold as hell yeah bro that was a clip of all clips the devil was the first victim

against peace out it's a real it's a real it's a real Amazon worker versus Bezos situation

he was trying and God Bezos just broke him down Big T is biting the ins sides of

No, I think this is, I think Eric, you want to know, you want to know something else though that's, that's, um, so in the Bible, the serpent,

um, God says something to the effect of like, um, now all serpents I'm going to like, you're going to slither on the ground like something. Uh, and there's fossils of snakes from however many million years ago that have like some hind legs.

And so they, some people surmise that like, if, if you're a believer in, in the, in creation of, and things like that that snakes had legs and then at some point it aligns with the bible that god took legs off of the snakes anyway back to little nazax there was 666 pairs of these shoes

created and there's human blood in them my only problem with the shoe was no the blood's in there is bill is it legal to sell human blood and i looked into it it's not have you have you checked to see if there was actual human blood in yes so i was like where's the blood coming from like is it donated blood like where is this blood coming from turns out the designers just like straight up bled into this like yes shoe designers but they don't say i won't say yeah when they did the jesus version of these three years ago they said they had water from jordan in the soul and that was a lie too oh where they get to where are those i'm unfamiliar with those i'm unfamiliar with those Those came. Yeah, they just Aquafina. They, the same company did it three years ago. It was like the walk on water ones or whatever. And it has like a cross on it. They're white with like the blue. And they took. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to catch up, but 2400. Oh, sorry. You go. You go. Nope, you're reading. They're $2,400 right now on eBay. They look pretty sick. Jesus would love that. His,

is water right they're loudly blasphemous like extremely blasphemous but no one cared like they just didn't make any splash there was no giant pop star helping push them like they just put them out they got memed for a while and they died

these being devil shoes really struck a different chord yeah yeah it did another thing I don't understand about this whole blowup is like how adults in 2021 don't understand that if you get outraged about something,

especially something that an artist does, all you're going to do is make that artist a martyr. And then all of his fandom, subsequently, will use his artistry as, like, the anthem for the counterculture that you're trying to push. It just, if you really care about this, and you're like, this is blasphemous. It's like, just ignore it.

This is not, you can't protest this away. It's like, that's not the age we live in. I mean, in a way, what Little Nas X has done is not, it's not unsimilar from what Dave Porter's, has done over the years. Like every time he'll say something that offends some people and then they talk about him more and then he uses that to like gain popularity and gain eyeballs on the stuff that he's doing. Like this is, it's been, it's been a game plan for a very long time going back throughout history that if you piss people off and offend people and you get them to

pay attention, turns out a lot of those people are attracted to things that could be offensive sometimes. Some people get off on listening to that sort of thing. So like, The marketing engine that he's spun up around himself, Lil Nas X, is, it's incredible to watch. And you can even go back, like, this is not a new concept for popular music even. So, like, I think that's what I was about to say is like, it just hit me when you said, when you're talking about that, Lil Nas X is Kanye on steroids, like the same template. Every time, every time Kanye got a, he wants to sell us something, he does some stupid shit every single time. Yeah.

No, it's a fact. And, like, you can go back to the Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil. That's the first time, I think, in, like, modern popular music where a group, like, Big Jagger used to put fake devil tattoos on himself and come out and sing Sympathy for the devil. And then people are like, oh, the Rolling Stones are Satanist because they had, like, some satanic imagery on the back of their album or whatever. Boom, album sales shot up because every parent was like, don't buy this album. And if your parents tell you not to buy an album, guess what you're going to do? you're going to buy the album you're going to get a rolling stones tattoo you're going to like become wildly obsessed with whatever your parents tell you not to do because it's bad and so like yeah

you can go back to to the rolling stones i mean all throughout the 70s and 80s like kiss did the thing with uh with blood too every band member kiss pricked their finger when they made the kiss comic book in the 70s and they just put like a drop of blood into the red paint that they were making so all the comic books had some of kiss's blood in it and all the parents were like like, oh, this is Satanic, don't buy it. Guess what kids did? They started painting their faces like Kiss, and they started, you know, becoming diehard fan. The Kiss Army was born out of that. And so, yeah, the whole, like, the devil thing is, it's a tried and true method to get people pissed off at you in itself, yes. And interestingly enough, right, just the last thing I'll say

before we can move on is, is when you actually look at what Satanism is, it's fucking dope, dog. And hear me out when I say this, right? Satanism is basically just a religious troll, right? And what they actually do is they congregate and they actually just do a whole bunch of charity. They just do good works across the nation. They actually organized and they just do good deeds. And that whole Satanism worship with the devil's shit is just the guise

to piss people off just to get under religious people's skin. Specifically for things like when Christians want to put like the Ten Commandments on government property, they'll say, well, we want Baphomet. We want our God right next to it. In the Christians' eyes, they're like, that's bullshit. You're not going to put

that devil worship and shit. And they're just saying like, yo, we have a nation of laws, and one of them is the separation of church and state. And so if you're going to put your doctrine on there, by law, we're entitled to do that, too. And so it's basically just a troll and they just do a lot of good works. It's pretty interesting, actually. So they don't actually worship the devil. They don't think God exists. So by that definition, they don't think the devil exists.

It's not a thing. Interesting. Well, who is it? I'm going to get in some French playwright shit right here. I'm on that tip right now. I don't know about that a lot. was it was sartre that said hell is other people right i don't remember that i think the only french playwright i could even yeah that's why that's why i went there hell is other people which it makes

sense because like that's just like canceling plans with somebody makes you feel great right so being by yourself chilling with your thoughts that's heaven on earth right there actually know what hell is hell is looking into a zoom meeting i'm i'm done with zoom meetings man i'm i'm sick of this But like, and don't give me wrong, I love doing this podcast and having you guys here, but there's something about these squares. I call it the kaleidoscope from hell that when it pops up, I just, I don't know, my body has like a visceral reaction to it. I'm like, not again.

Please not again. I can definitely relate to that, man. It's like the majority, like this is necessary, right? It's a podcast, but like the majority of like meetings that you meet with people, 98% of them can be emails, dog. We don't need to be here. We do not need to be here. Could you imagine working in like an office?

job where you have to do like marketing meetings or like accounting meetings and you've got six people on a zoom call all right we have to do that occasionally here with our marketing people or the uh the PR people and man it's tough I don't know how I honestly have to take my hat off to people that are able to survive in that type of office environment and actually be productive when half of their day is zoom calls because that is hell to me um just real quick I wanted I googled this hell as other people thing and it turns out the guy Sartra who said that uh is is very upset that that like the way that we were using it that's not what he meant that's what that's how i interpreted okay well he said um hell as other people has always been misunderstood

it's thought what i meant was that our relations with other people are always poisoned that they are in invariably hellish relations what i really mean is something totally different i mean that if relations with someone else are twisted vitiated what i've never seen that word before and that other person really what's up vitiated what's what's the word bro v i t i at TED, look that up, Billy. Anyway, he's saying that that's not, that's not what he meant. Okay. So, but in, in terms of clarifying himself, he just made me more confused.

Yeah, I don't really get what he's saying either. That's the French. That's the French for you. Videated spoil or impair the quality or efficiency of. Is that how it's pronounced? That it's his definition. Viseate. It's viceiate.

Vizciated. Now we're getting somewhere. Is that how it's pronounced? That is its definition. Yeah. I like my definition better, which is hell is a Zoom meeting. Boom, done. No red.

So, yeah, we'll get into hell. I feel like hell would be a good topic for next week to dive into. I don't know how you guys feel about it. It is, they pointed out to me, it's Easter Sunday coming up. I don't know. Is that, are we pulling a little Naz-X? Put a little Naz-X in the hell episode, right after this? I like it.

I mean, you can't have Easter without hell. It is pivotal to the three days. That's true. you have to how do you feel about that big tea i want to be respectful of of your beliefs well i i said out there i think hell's a great episode okay hell is great yes you heard it no i'm not what i said uh that's so he said before we can't take it back before we get into uh the wrongfully accused episode i want to talk to you guys actually i don't want to talk to you guys about our sponsor i want billy to talk to you guys about our sponsor because billy actually uses a service and i think

we're like four for four in terms of the last two episodes of giving ad reads to people actually use the services. So Billy's very passionate about this one. A few decades ago, private citizens used to be largely that private. What's changed? The internet. Think about everything you've browsed, searched for, watched or tweeted. Now imagine all that data being crawled through collected and aggregated by third parties into a permanent public record, your record. Having your private life exposed for others to see was once something only celebrities worried about, but in an era where everyone is online, everyone is a public figure. To keep my data private when I go online, I turn to ExpressVPN.

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Okay, so it's time for the wrongfully accused portion of this episode. And Arian is going to leave it. So Arian is still hungover from last week, but, but, here physically. Not true. One of the reasons why I do enjoy drinking so much is because I don't get hangover. So that's really the problem. I just wake up drunk.

That's my hangover. I'll just be more drunk the next day. I know. And then I was going to say it honestly pisses me off that every time you say that you don't get hangovers, I'm like, fuck you, man. It's wild, right? So everybody's like, oh, last night killed me. I'm like, what are you all?

I just don't know what you're talking about. Like I just wake up like I still feel amazing. And then my dad told me, like, because I was like, because I was like, I just know, I just Because it was his birthday of February. And he was like, he goes, he's like, have a glass of wine with me, son. I'm like, nah, I drank a lot yesterday. I'm going to chill today. And I don't want to be faded two days in the wrong.

He's like, hair of the dog, little nigger. I said, I said, what? He said, hair of the dog. And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? You're just saying words. And it's like, I guess it's the saying. It's like, it's old saying like, hair of the dog. It's like when you drink the next day, that helps you cure the ailment of the hangover.

I guess it's like a folklore. I don't know. Yeah. Hair of the dog to bitch you. You get a lock of their hair, then you feel good. I don't know if that part actually works. Okay, I make sense. Yeah, but I was a little wavy during the ocean episode, but I'm back, not hung over.

Here we go. All right. All right. So let's get into it. Michael Jett. Big T's wearing his, his Predator's jersey in honor of your topic. I just noticed it. I'm sorry.

Yeah, no. No, that's what it was. We should preface this entire episode by. saying this all falls under the category of allegedly, right? Parody law. Right, because I don't know what Arian is going to come with on MJ. Right now, I'm operating from the standpoint of Michael Jackson is guilty as hell. He was a great musician.

His songs are still cool as shit. I love listening to him. You say the greatest. I'd say probably like, yeah, he's top 10. He's the greatest entertainer. He's the greatest entertainer of all time. It's not even that close, actually. Red Panda, the lady that rides a unicycle.

that flips the bowls at halftime. Okay, okay, okay, you got me there. It's a toss up between those two, maybe peewee, Herman. But other than that, all right, Michael Jackson, right? Now, when I first dug into this, right? And so what I really want to do is I did a two-hour podcast on my previous podcast about this specific time, which is two hours and like 30 minutes, strictly talking about this because that's how deep it goes, right?

And so I'm not going to, I don't know how long I got, maybe I'm going to take like 20, 30 minutes on it. So I'm just going to give you the basics. But maybe we could link it with our episode underneath, you know, the tweets or whatever. Just so y'all can get like a full breakdown of those who are interested. So when I first started digging into this, I grew up thinking Michael Jackson was guilty. It was kind of the folklore around it. It was just kind of everybody knew. That's Mike.

But he makes great music. And so we used to separate the art from the artists. But I was for sure that he used to touch children. We all had jokes about it. But then the Leaving Leverland documentary dropped. And on HBO, and the Leaving Neverland documentary featured two accusers, who was James, Safechuck, and Wade Robson. All right. Now, I already thought he was guilty.

And so I watched it reluctantly because I wanted to, like, have, like, concrete proof. I was like, here it is. Here's the proof. This was my child, one of my childhood heroes is what it is, but I'm going to, I'm going to go ahead and face the music. It's time to put Michael Jackson to bed. and when I watched it I got a feeling that I was being lied to

and it's nothing that I could have proved off top but it's just something didn't sit right with me like I take sexual assaults very seriously I do believe you should believe people in every case is different but in this instance when they were telling me this

I just got the feeling that I was being lied to something didn't sit right with me there were instances of it where I was like that's grotesque and you know you fill for him and and james safe check was the one i really believed and i was like way didn't be a weird feeling wait just didn't i felt like he was acting that was just off top but i was like i was like i'm gonna do my own research i'm gonna dig into the cases because i couldn't sleep literally i was like thinking about this like shit for like days and i was like i can't get this out of my head why michael jackson if he did or he didn't do it i was just thinking

about it day in and day out so i spent the next like month digging in the court cases. And I'm talking about reading depositions. I'm talking about reading testimonies. I'm reading doctors being interviewed, lawyers, judges. I'm reading everything, news articles. I just dug in and there's like a specific timeline. And what I found is it all stems from a initial allegation. And we'll start with the Jordan Chandler case. Is there any questions before I go out? I don't want to go on too long. Y'all got any questions thus far. So you're saying that they're like all the allegations surrounding Michael Jackson. It might just be because I'm not that familiar with the details of everything around

him. I had just always heard that there were like, you know, dozens or, you know, 10 or 20 kids that had made these allegations against them and that it was like just kind of a known fact, but you're saying that it all traces back to like one or two ultimately. Right. So all together, there was four allegations, right? And that is the folklore behind it. It's like, there's a hundred kids that came out.

Not true. There was four kids that came out. One that was so felonious that it's not even worth mentioning, but it's worth mentioning. So four total that they actually like went to court for. And two of them were posthumous. So like not until he was dead. Post-mostly is how you pronounce that. If you listen to part of my take you to understand that this is, Hank has figured out how to pronounce every word correctly.

And that's one of them. But I'm sorry for interrupting. POS mostly. Yep. Got you. So POS mostly, there was two. So while he was alive, there was only two. All right.

And it was Jordan Chandler and, oh, shit, was the other kid's name. I'm blanking. Was it Wade? No, Wade Robertson was the post-Mossily. Gotcha. I just like to interject and say, yeah, too, but that's also two more than most people ever had. it is right it is but um okay so i mean this is this is this is why it was intriguing to me right i even when i started digging into this i was like oh i mean um when there's smoke there's fire

so initially how it all did this start there was a a man by the name of evan chandler which is jordan chanler's father okay who uh okay jordan chanler and and And Michael Jackson, this is how they met. They met randomly, right? The family's car broke down. I'm sorry, Michael Jackson's car broke down by an auto dealer shop. They went inside and said, yo, we have Michael Jackson. Can we use your phone?

This is the day before cell phones was popping like that. And they said, yeah. And they knew that Michael Jackson was like a big fan of children. Like he loved kids, right? Which is a separate conversation, right? but we'll just keep it here for now. So they were like, yo, we have a son who's a fan.

We love to introduce him. And he's like, and this is why I would, when I say I started out thinking Michael Jackson was guilty, and I ended up thinking not only is Michael Jackson innocent, he might be one of the most purest, kindness human beings that have ever walked this earth. And that's a wild claim to make.

But I go into detail, like I said, on that podcast, I'm not going to have time to do it, cover everything here. But so they met, they linked up, and Michael Jackson and him hung out a lot and he hung out with a lot of kids.

It wasn't just like one or two and he had like favorites. He had so many children that he was around and so many people that he influenced and took care of. So Evan Chandler, like there's an audio tape of him plotting this shit from the jump.

He was a script writer. He actually wrote Robin Hood Men in Tights. which is fascinating. And he was trying to get, like, put on, like, by Michael Jackson. And Michael Jackson was like, yo, I don't really got nothing for you. Evan Chandler then is on videotape, right? Because at this time, like, things grew, Jordan's mother and Evan, the kid, would spend a lot of time with Michael Jackson away from the father.

Right. And he started to get, like, upset. And he starts levying accusations so much so that they alert Michael Jackson, like, yo, he's like really wilding right now. And so he's starting to say things like about my son and you. And that alerted Michael Jackson. So they started like recording phone calls, stuff like that just to like cover this basis. And one of the one of the calls was Chandler's stepdad, the little kid's stepdad was on the phone.

And he was like, I'm going to get this fucker. I'm going to get him so bad. I'm going to get him in. And the audio tape will be, like I said, in that podcast. if you're interested, but he's basically saying, I'm going to, I'm going to get him. I'm going to get him. He's going to be, he's going to be sorry. He wishes he never did, yada, yada, yada. And so it began to be just like a plot, like a money plot. And they tried to settle it. And Michael Jackson was like, I'm not paying you no money. Like, they met with him as like, I'm not paying you no money.

Like, it's not going to happen. So one of they ended up doing is they gave, this is when I knew it was bullshit from his father. I'm asking you, PFT, if you say you got a child and you figured out that he got molested, what is your next move? I call the cops. You get the authorities involved, brother. That's a thousand percent. This man figured out, and this is all timeline documented, right, corroborated by his brother that wrote a book, court documents, everything.

When he found out, his first move was he hired a lawyer. Okay? He hired a lawyer, and that lawyer suggested that they go to, a child psychologist to get a quote-unquote confession. So they had Evan tell him what happened, okay? But that wasn't until a month later. So you don't go, you don't do anything for a month when you find out your child has been touched by a grown man.

You wait an entire month. You hire a lawyer. Then you take them to a child psychologist so you don't get the authorities involved. By law, child psychologists have, if they hear something like that, they have to get the authorities involved. Yeah. The authorities didn't get involved. The Santa Monica PD then files an investigation, right?

So can I jump in real quick? Please jump in. Playing devil's advocate, playing Lil Nazek's advocate right now. If I was the parent and I, yeah, I'd probably go to the police like very first thing. That's like the instinctual thing to do. But if you're dealing with somebody who's like the most famous person in the world is the person that you're accusing, you might want to take some time to get your ducks in a row

in terms of like, okay, I am obviously going to need to file a legal battle of some sort. I'm going to need to have like, it's not just a standard case at that point when it's the most popular entertainer in the world. Billy? First question, is this the first accuser we're talking about? This is the very

first one. But yeah, I understand, yes, my instinct would be like, okay, call the cops, get him arrested immediately, you know? you can't you see that or show up at his house and be like hey let's do this i i'm going to take care of you right now got you okay let's say you're right let's see if your that your tomb changes after the subsequent events right let's i'll grant you that i call bullshit but i grant you that all right so after the Santa Monica uh after that county gets involved they then uh get warrants to

search Michael Jackson's home, his, his offices, everything. They strip search him, take pictures of his genitalia, all of this stuff, right? After they do that, the Chandler family then files a lawsuit in criminal court, not, I mean, I'm sorry, in civil court, not criminal court, okay? So for the people that don't know, there's a very big difference between civil court and criminal court civil court is just about money the bar of evidence for standard of proof is very low and it's just about money and for reference i mentioned this in the pod as well as like when when oj was on trial criminally right his criminal trial went first okay uh then the he won the criminal trial but he lost the civil trial the civil trial was just about money he had to pay the

family okay um right so here it's beyond a reasonable doubt in criminal courses and our cases and then it's preponderance of the evidence in civil, which means like 51% to 49% is enough. The standard is just is very low for innocence or guilty in civil cases. And here's where it starts to meet unfold. Okay, this was a money grant. And he got, he got indicted by two grand juries, right? Two different grand juries saw all the evidence. I mean, I'm sorry, he didn't get indicted by two different grand juries.

two different grand juries saw the evidence levied against him and they they didn't they didn't indict they didn't they didn't see enough evidence to even to even give him a charge right um so the so the that's that's the county the county is is filing criminal charges they're trying to get michael jackson prosecuted two grand juries didn't have enough evidence didn't feel like they had enough evidence to indict right um uh on top of that the Chandler's family's lawyers for the civil case filed a motion to the judge that says we want the civil case heard before the criminal case. Think about that. You're saying I want the money before the prosecution. There's no statute of limitations that short. You can get the criminal pushed and then go for the civil. They're saying they filed a motion saying we want to get this one out of the way. Well, Michael Jackson's response is, yo, if I lose the civil case, it's just about money. If I lose the criminal case, I'm going to jail. They then filed a petition that said, no, let's lay off on the civil until after the criminal. Let's take care of the criminal because what do we know about lawsuits? Lawsuits is basically just a game of chess, right? It's like, here's my evidence, here's your evidence.

Now, if I present my evidence in a civil case where it's just about money, the county then has access to that information and now can counteract their argument against it, right? So it makes more sense for Michael Jackson's team to be like, let's put it off. The judge denies it. And subsequently, there's a law now in California, which is why OJ's trial went criminal, then civil. Because of the Michael Jackson trial and how it went, there was a law that was written just specifically because of this that says if it's something like this, then you have to proceed with the criminal and then the civil. Interesting. All right. So wait, what were the exact accusations by the kid?

I feel like we should address that. Sure. What did he accuse Michael Jackson doing? I mean, there's a, there's a, uh, I don't, I'm, I couldn't tell you like the exact, like the charges, the criminal charges, but it was, it was, it was, he was touching him. He made him touch, uh, him. He made the little boy touch him. Uh, he played with him.

Uh, and there was like stuff like, I don't want to get too grotesque. I got you. So it was like, it was molestation. Yes. Yes. Yes. A thousand percent. And, uh,

there's there's I mean there's different like evidences that I could go down and go into and it's it gets really deep that's like so somebody can get a fucking law degree about this shit bro because it gets so deep and that's why it took me so long to research but um so it they they push it as much as they can right uh and the the the Michael Jackson team who then hires Johnny Cochran who's known for settling cases then says the day before that they were going to go into the trial, they were like, all right, let's just settle this. Let's just settle it. Get it out of the way so that we can then focus all of our energy on the criminal case because that's the shit that really matters. They end up settling the case. Now, colloquially, just again, in normal society, in our minds, it's like, oh, you paid them off, right? Because people don't understand the nuances of criminal versus civil, right? And even the lawyer for Evan Chandler was like nobody paid anybody off. The criminal case is still on

going. You can literally find clippings from the LA, LA Times about how the criminal case is still ongoing after the settlement. The settlement was purely because the judge ruled against holding off on the criminal, I mean, on the civil case. So they said, let's just settle. It is what it is. Let's focus on the criminal case. After the civil case is settled, okay, Tom Sneddon, the DA for Santa Barbara, tries to get Evan Chandler, the father, Jordan Chandler, the child, and I think it's Judy, the mother, right, all three of them tries to get them to testify so they can press charges against Michael Jackson. All of them refused. This is the criminal now. This is the criminal cases. Nobody wanted to move forward with the criminal charges

against Michael Jackson. On top of that, after the criminal cases settled and then they won, it's disputed about how much they got from him. It was like anywhere from like 15 to like 25. nobody really knows because it's it's under wraps after they won the the money jordan chandler right files for emancipation from his parents so he no longer wants them to be his legal guardians fucking wild dog they fall out they don't fuck with each other right subsequently and i'll touch on this in a little bit later the FBI is doing a criminal investigation on the on his 2005 accusations right um and they interview jordan chandler and they say will you come forward in defense of this of this of this of this new kid and he said no I'm not testifying if you continue to

pursue me I'm a press legal charges against you and he's talking to the FBI so Jordan Chandler to this day who's alive refuses to remain silent he filed emancipation from his parents and Evan Chandler was was was was um uh pushing for this lobbying for this there's literally videotape of him saying I'm going to get this dude I'm going to ruin his career whoop-de-whoop right even more interestingly after he got found not guilty and I'm sorry After Michael Jackson died, I think it's either after he died, it's been a while to look at it. He's not after he died or after he got found not guilty. Evan Chandler, the father, ended up committing suicide.

Fucking crazy, dog. Now, Arian, I know the answer to this, but for the listeners, what is your reasoning behind Michael Jackson's whole Neverland Ranch, sort of this sort of like Wonderworld for children, like Disneyland, away from Disneyland, all sorts of cool stuff. you know, McCulley Calkin hung out there and stuff. What was this grown man doing with little kids all the time? Right. And so to me, I would never feel comfortable in the bed with another child that wasn't mine, right? I just wouldn't. But I'm also not Michael Jackson.

Okay. And on top of that, when you sleep in Michael Jackson's room, it's not just one bed. Like, it's not 12 kids in one bed with Michael Jackson. Dog's bed, I mean, dog's bedroom was like two stories. He didn't have a regular bedroom, so there's like pinball machines there, games, there's candy, there's fruit. It's just like an amusement park in his room, right? And if you want to understand is Michael Jackson's psyche, right? You really have to listen to him talk and listen to the people that love him, talk to him and about him.

He was a child star, world famous at five years old. Jackson Five was huge, right? He also had an abusive father who used to beat the shit out of him and make sure that they were in alignment, right? And so psychologically, I just messaged you. You never got the experience playing in the park. You never got to experience playing hide-and-go-seek tag. And so when you're Michael Jackson, at five years old, you're thrusting in the superstardom. And then you make one of the most amazing albums of all time from off the wall and then thriller.

And then you're just thrust into this, like, they used to say, like, who's more famous, Michael Jackson or Jesus? Like, people forget how famous Michael Jackson was. He was, like, super famous. And so he never got, like, he wants, this is wild. He once bought out a supermarket, right? Close the supermarket for a day and paid employees to just pretend like they were shopping so he could feel like he can go shopping. Fucking crazy. Like, that's wild.

But to be isolated from your own stardom like that is psychologically damning. And so him, when he explains it, and you listen to him explain it, it's actually, it makes sense to me. Kids didn't give a shit about Michael Jackson being famous. All they cared about was look at all this cool shit he has. and I want to play. And to him, that was the most purest, honest form that human beings were. And so to him, he just wanted to be surrounded by that energy because adults were all conniving. I mean, think about, Will Smith once said that he has a lawyer on retainer because he gets sued so much.

And that's Will Smith. He's famous as shit. Michael Jackson was exponentially more famous than Will Smith. Michael Jackson was getting sued all the time. And so everybody you come across, everybody you meet always wants. something from you except for who children they don't want shit from you and so he he he relished in that energy of like pure joy and so he played with him he jumped and like like you said billy like McCauley Cawken you should talk about all the time is like we would go over there McCauley Cawken defends

him to this day by the way McCauley Cawken would go over there and it was like we would just play squirt guns trampolines like and just all day he was just a bit they would climb trees shit like that I want to do right now but I don't got the energy or the needs for but it's like his psyche was not the normal psyche. And for us and for me, because I used to to judge what he was doing from my vantage point, it's just, it doesn't make any sense because I'm not Michael Jackson. I think it is what it is. He rented out Disney World one time too. But that, I think that was more along the lines if he didn't want to, like, he didn't want to obviously like go out in public and have everybody ruin his time at the amusement park. He just, he wanted to go in all the rides like by himself.

It would, that's, that's such a sick flex, though, is to just like buy an entire supermarket. You're like, just do what you normally do and I'm going to shop and then and then just act like you don't know me. Act like I'm normal. Like I can't even imagine. And you're right. Like if you're Michael Jackson and you're one of the most distinctive looking people in the world, you can't go undercover anywhere. Like for me, if I if I ever want to go to like a Buffalo Wild Wings in Boston, Massachusetts, let's just say and watch football on Sunday and I go undercover. Like I can I can put on like a beanie put my hair up take my glasses off actually and then nobody nobody'll know who the fuck I am and it's great but like you can't escape your Michael Jacksonness if you're Michael Jackson and like obviously like me to Michael Jackson is like not even in comparison like the sun to a greatest sand.

Cole is shaking his head like no that's not true PFT. I appreciate that coley. Yeah. You're going to give yourself some more credit. Yeah. No, but I'm saying like for him like he had no escape. from being Michael Jackson and everybody that he met obviously wanted something from all the time. So I understand, like, don't get me wrong. I get the whole like stuck in. I think psychologists have proven this. Like if you're abused at a certain age in certain ways, you kind of get emotionally stuck in that age. And it's hard for you to advance and to mature past that. And if he's like a five year old who gets fucked with in terms of like obviously his dad beating him, but also just, just

worldwide fame you're going to be you're going to be stunted in your growth a little bit so i i understand that um so i guess that's that's the first part of it big t you have any questions um i not a question so much i do think the way aryan described like you know how much that would fuck with your your your your psyche to be you know thrust into super stardom from a from an age like that and then like kind of use that as it just seemed it is a weird dude i don't know it just having like yeah like it's just it's i can see it both ways what you said makes perfect sense like how that would like regress your mind and you would want to like make children happy and shit like that but i could also see somebody being like any you know did you

have a billion dollar he was probably a billionaire right any close to a billionaire who has like a children's theme park in their home might be a creep i don't know it seems odd to me but the way you described it makes sense. Yeah, no. And like I said, I went into his thinking he was guilty and left thinking like, that was just a good dude, bro, and that hella took an advantage of by pieces of shit people. But so, just, I just

want to move forward because it's a lot to get to. I don't want to take the whole episode on Michael Jackson. I could, though. I'm going to lightly mention the last case of his life, which was Gavin Arvizo. Gavin R. Vizzo. And I'm not going to even talk about it too much because it was so full of shit. Like, if you dig into this case, you'll laugh at it. And that's how,

that's why he got off. If I was to tell you, any of y'all, if I was to be like, yo, listen, man, it's going to be my last macro dose in the episode. I just got hit with 10 felony counts and 14 misdemeanors. What would y'all say? Yikes. I do a lot of tugging on my collar on my shirt.

Bro. So he got hit with 10 felonies, 14 misdemeanors after this accusation, right? He not one of them shit stuck. And the reason why none of one of them shit stuck is because it was a blatant attempt to fuck with him. These people were caught on camera lying. These people were caught on camera twisting their story. None of their stories matched.

The kids' stories didn't match. They all said different things. They were in different times and different places when they said they weren't. I'm just going to leave that one where it is. And if you really want to dig into it, dig into it. But it was so felonious. And this is why Michael Jackson got off. But it was also the most highly viewed because Michael Jackson was really famous by that point, right?

Like extremely. And it was just one of the most biggest publicized cases of all time. And that's the only reason why we remember it. Because when you dig into the details of the case, it is horseshit. And they knew it. Everybody knew it. Their lawyers even knew it too. It was just a money grab and it was nonsense.

When you hear 10 felonies, you're right, it's like double-digit felonies. At that point, I'm not getting off. I'm like that guy's guilty. Something going to stick. And not one of them stuck. The judge, like literally during the trial was like, are you serious like that kind of stuff the mom was over here like talking shit to the judge like it was wild though it was like it was a shit show there was a whole shit was a shit show it was wild

I won't I won't spend too much time on that I want to now get into the the posmosely uh allegations which is James safe chuck and Wade Robson all right so why do I think these dudes are line all right the reason why I think these dudes aligned is because there is just a trail of misinformation and a trail of lies and their provable lies, okay? We'll start with the first one, right? James Safechuk. James Safechuk made a very specific claim in Leaving Neverland. And leaving Neverland, and it was one of the most powerful scenes in the movie, actually, right? One of the most powerful scenes in the movie was when he was talking about, it was very grotesque.

And he said, you know, when it first started, it was like, you know, when you're in a new relationship, you do it all the time and you do it everywhere. And it's like, that's where we were. We were like, we were kind of like in love. and it was just you're doing it everywhere. And we would do it in the Neverland train station, right? Michael Jackson had a very famous train station, right? And he said, we would do it in there.

We did it in there a lot, and he said, and he described in detail what happened and yada, yada, yada. Well, funny thing about that shit is you shouldn't have said that shit. James Safechuck, they didn't mention this in the documentary, but him and Wade Robson are showing the Michael Jackson estate for over, I think it was over a billion dollars, okay? in their lawsuit, James Safechuck claimed that Michael Jackson was molesting him from 1988 to 1992, okay?

That train station didn't get approved for building their documents and his records from the company. They didn't get approved for building until 1993. So I'm not saying that you're misremembering your molestation, but misremembering it in a place that is famous. Like the Michael Jackson train station is very telling to me. There are several instances like that throughout his entire story that this doesn't make any sense, right?

So even afterwards when he was, the entire narrative of James Safechuck's story was that Michael Jackson stopped messing with him because he was older, right? He stopped talking to him, he stopped messing because he was older. So the entire thing was like he only had little boys around him. Well, James Safe Stuck later says that he came back around when he was 16 and he was helping him out and there's video of him holding Michael Jackson's umbrella when he's like 16, 17 years old

and him doing things for him and hanging out Michael Jackson. So it ruins your entire narrative that Michael Jackson stopped messing with you, right? Like I said, there's instances after instance as if it's in it. And I would be here all day going over all those details. I'm just giving you a baseline of mistruth that these dudes have said. Wade Robson, I feel like it's the biggest lie of both of them because

this dude, so one of the dovest parts about this is when I did this podcast, the Michael Jackson family estate, they actually reached out to me. And it was like, this is like a really good breakdown of this and we want to meet you. And so we met and we ended up chopping it up. And they told me

when Michael Jackson died, and I got to confirm by them. I think I said in the podcast too, but when Michael Jackson died, the very next day they got an email from Wade Robson saying he wanted to direct a circus Olai show as a tribute to Michael Jackson

the next day, fam that's fucking career crazy now you're not right so they said no right a few years later he keeps trying they keep telling them no for the record I would I would go see that show

that sounds amazing no question no question absolutely he keeps trying to they say no a few years later he levies the accusation and he said this is my truth this is this is this is what i this is what happened to me and he explains it all right um interestingly enough in that documentary they talk about the the gloves michael jackson gave him the the hat from the um what's that what's that billy teen criminal smooth smooth criminal he got the smooth criminal hat right he has a lot of michael jackson real michael jackson memorabilia he goes to

to auction it off six months before he files his lawsuit against the Michael Jackson estate. He auctions and he tried to, and this is confirmed by Julian's auctions, and they tweeted about this, Julian's auctions actually said, Wade wanted to make it an anonymous, and we said, no, this is the Wade Robson collection. So he tried to pawn off Michael Jackson's memorabilia before he files the lawsuit against Michael Jackson's estate. It's just instance after instance after instance. Another one was in in the in the in the movie joy robson wade's mother says that they all left and they left their five-year-old with michael jackson fucking crazy by the way they just met michael jackson the whole family leaves to the grand canyon and they leave their five-year-old okay when in that

in that earlier case in 1993 joy robinson was actually called by the michael jackson team to defend because they know that their kids spent a lot of time with michael jackson she She was in deposition, and in deposition, she said that we went to the Navalern Ranch family as a family. We all had fun and then we all left and we went to Grand Canyon. She didn't say that she left her son there. And so you're lying and neither one. You prove it. And I mean, you figure it out.

But the issue is you have been, you have been caught in multiple lives. And I'm just, I'm just, this is just light, right? This is just, and it's just, and the deeper you dig, the deeper it goes as to how much. truth that they have said and spread over the years. And recently, that case, I believe it got thrown out, right? Wade Robson and James Safechuck have yet to say a fucking word after the blowback of leaving Navajo. None of them have said anything.

Coley, as a father, how do you feel about leaving your child with, let's say, Bruno Mars while you go to Crater Lake Oregon or something? He's selling that baby for not that much cocaine. I mean. It's not out in my mind So it's going to be a nut job to do that Like I get it was the 90s And it was a different era

But you just can't be doing that Yeah Yeah That is a wild move I mean I'm not a parent But I wouldn't like leave my dog With a stranger for 10 minutes So that's a question I have

How did these kids get to like Go to Michael Jackson's house? Do you know that? There's a whole bunch of it's not Listen, there was a one avenue, right? Well, right, but like, there was, there was charitable foundations. He ran. Like, he used to like, he used to like, like, and this is what I'm saying.

Like, when I, when I, when I, first I was like, yo, he's guilty. And I was like, no, he's fucking one of the greatest human beings ever lived. Because this dude used to just do random acts of kindness dog. And like, hundreds and hundreds of people came out after this. And it was like, yo, he talked to me on the phone for hours and like about nothing. He would just call people who were like a cancer patient. And he would just talk to them and sit and talk to them about their day, things that they're like. movies, jokes, yada, yada.

And so, like, he would, he would, he would, like, run cancer benefits. That's actually how he met Gavin R. Vizal was through a cancer benefit. Chris Tucker was doing a show. They came up to him and said, they're fans of Michael Jackson. They knew Chris Tucker was friends with Michael Jackson. Chris Tucker was like, yo, this family wants to meet you. He was like, bring him up. And they brought him up.

And it's like, that's who Michael Jackson was. So it's like, if he was like this evil conniving, it would have just been more smooth. Like, you're Michael Jackson. If you could run a fucking ring, you could have a spot in Mexico that you fly to and just have a whole fucking, that's what you into. But like, that's not him, dog. Like, it's hard for me to say it because, like, once the doors are closed, like, you never know what actually happens, right?

He could have been the most evil motherfucker on earth. But just all things considered, all the people that have come out, like, there's only been four or five cases and they all have been discredited with, through lies and testimony and audio and all of this stuff. It's just like there would just have been more because the one thing, like if you talk to any child psychologist is pedified. have a trail of this shit. It's not just one kid.

It's multiple kids. And it's a pattern that they have. And they do it. And it's a specific pattern. None of this follows a specific pattern. None of it. So with Safechuck, I remember watching finding Neverland or leaving Neverland. And there was finding Neverland.

There was that one part where was it him where he like recalled talking to a psychiatrist and having all the memories like come back? Is that what he was saying? like he remembered he remembered when he was like in his 30s right like and he had just repressed those well well yeah i think he was saying that like in his head he kind of like normalized it after a while and then after the unwinding he kind of come to grips with what had happened which i don't that's not what i'm discrediting or discounting right because i take i take those of the accusations like very seriously but what but what i what i can see is the manipulation uh

surrounding it, right? You're suing in a state for a billion dollars. You've lied in your claim. You're lied, right? You lied. There's just bold-faced lie. So it's like certain things should match up if that's the case, in my opinion, and they're just not matching up.

And then let's say you lose the case, right? If I'm innocent, if I feel like it happened to me and he's a guilty man, and it's hard for me to say this, but it's just like, I'm still speaking of my truth, I don't care what that judge said. Like, I know what happened. I know my truth. They're silent.

They went radio silent. Three, it's been four years now, three, four years now. And they haven't heard a word from them. And it's like, you had a platform. You should still be doing this. You're not anymore. All right. So that's safe, Chuck.

Who else? Who else we have? Wade Robson. That was it. Those four. Okay, Wade Robson. That's it. That's it.

So again, that kind of goes back to like what I was saying earlier is growing up. I was just always under the impression that there were like, you know, dozens of kids that it all come forward but it's just these four and that's a key element in all of this is the media

and I hate when people pull that nowadays is like the mainstream media right I think it's just like an overused term but it's literally the catalyst

to why this is such a prolific event there was tabloids paying people like $200,000 for a story like this maid got caught lying and they paid

a tabloid paid her $200,000 to say she saw somebody a little boy in her room just to say it like the tabloers just fed off of the shit anything Michael Jackson was selling and so the media was pushing the narrative like literally during the 2005 case um there was a 24 hour news cycle on this case just dedicated to this case and it's like you're not in the courtroom like it was a closed courtroom so you don't know what's going on so the entire day you're just running with narratives and making narratives up that changes everybody's opinion like there's a zeitgeist going on

And I mean, because that guy shift going on. And when the media comes into play like that, it's just a dangerous, it's just a dangerous game. It's like cats out of the bag. You can't put that back in forever. Like people are going to associate Michael Jackson with this. Even though you got off of fucking 10 felony counts, dog, that's insane. Yeah. So I'm reading up about it a little bit when it comes to the Robson case.

So what the blatant lie was he was like, I've only discussed it one time. And then they found thousands of emails where he's working out his story going back and forth after he said that he had only talked about it one time on email with one person. So, yeah, I mean, there's obviously inconsistencies. I don't know, I don't know if I'm ready to be like totally, I think

I need to go listen to your other podcast, Aaron. Listen to it. It's like two hours. Like I, I just levied like accusations or, I mean, I'm sorry, like misinformation, like of each one. But if I go into really big detail and there's a timeline, right? It took me like two hours to get through it, but it's like a timeline. And it's

as to why it all kind of ties together, like from the 93 case all the way to 2005 case, all the way to these new accusations, it all is kind of woven together because they all used the same pattern. And there's even a deeper plot here that there's an actual dude who was facilitating all these kids. Like, there's this one cat. I forget his name. He's also a famous, he was a famous child actor.

They interviewed him, the LAPD interviewed him, right? And this is on record. The LAPD interviewed him saying, did Michael Jackson ever do anything? anything to you. And he was like, no, Michael Jackson never did that anything to me. And he was like, yo, they're like, he went to his mom. It's like, yo, they're, they're pressing me. They're like saying, I know he did. I know he did. They were like aggressive with a whole bunch of kids. And a whole bunch of kids came out and and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, he was, like,

to force these kids into saying something. Like, it was, it was, it got that deep. And Tom Snedden, for who, who actually died, uh, Tom Snedden tried to get this man for 10 years. And he was, like, doing dirty shit, like, like, real dirty shit. So much so Michael Jackson actually wrote a disc track against him, Doug. It's on his, what is that? Whatever album cover, it's like a greatest hit album, but it's like he has that statue. I forget his story.

So it's on history. It's called DS, right? Because he didn't want to get sued by him. So it's called DS. And the hook goes, Tom Sneddon is a cold man. Because Tom Snedder was trying to nail him for 10 years, just lie after lie after lie, though. And it's insane.

Like Michael Jackson, and that's why, and that's why after the 2005 case, He won. All charges drop. Michael Jackson gets out of his car and he's dancing on his car. Yeah. And the song that's playing is Tom Sneddon is a cold man. I had no idea that Michael Jackson got into the disc track band. Yeah.

I have to go listen. Can we put a clip of that in? Yeah. Yeah, we'll put a clip of that in. I kind of blame Jay Leno a little bit. I think that Jay Leno has a part in this because, like, going back to the whole, like, thinking that there were, you know, dozens, dozens of kids, I think a lot of that comes from the fact that Jay Leno was out there making McCauley Colkin jokes, you know, five times a week, thinking that they were fresh every single time when McCulley Culkin was never one of the kids that accused him of doing anything wrong.

And like you said, he actually like stood on the table for him later on and said to this day. To this day. Yeah. And so like Jay Leno, it was like, the best thing that ever happened in Jay Leno was, was the Monica Lewinsky scandal because then he finally got to start writing new. jokes after McCullough's stuff was over. Because if you go back and look at that shit from like the mid-90s, he was just dropping like casual child molestation jokes about McCulloughan on a nightly basis. But yeah, I'm pretty sure that that got into my head somehow. So the other thing that I'm reading is that, so there were descriptions of the sexual assaults that came from the kids.

And it's noted that a lot of the descriptions that came from those kids match. up almost directly with a book that was written about a woman that had an affair or that had a relationship with Michael Jackson, her description of his body. Not only that there was a book written by a guy who infiltrated a group called Nambla. Nambla is the national something like men lovers associations something like that. Big team.

I'm not familiar with their work. Okay. And so he infiltrated that group. It's a disgusting group. It's like it's everything that QAnon accuses the government of being like Namla is actually this group. Let's focus on that. Yeah.

And so he infiltrated this group and he said it took him like three years to actually get invited to the place or whatever. he ended up overhearing that like when the first accusations were going on that they were like you Michael Jackson

it would be great if he came out because it would normalize pedophilia like that's and so he then tried to coerce people into blaming Michael Jackson literally a news a news crew did a story

on this kid who was like I got touched by Michael Jackson they flew out he gave all all the information he fed all this kid the information right and they believed them and they were like holy shit they was like you need to go to the authorities and they ran a story on it and and in interrogation he ended up cracking and saying i'm i'm lying uh somebody told me to do this like that's how deep this shit got it was just from all angles um and another thing about like his description of his genitalias that gets even deeper just more than one no it was it was one it was one kid it was one kid it was

Jordan Chandler, the first kid, they said that he gave a description of his genitalia, right? In one of his descriptions, he described him as being circumcised. Michael Jackson, in his autopsy after he died, he was uncircumcised. He had the flaps. On top of that, the DA, Tom Sneddon, had an opportunity to admit that evidence in and refused to and didn't want to do it. why why would you leave that out i don't know i don't know billy's got a quizzical look on it circumcises when they cut the worst enough anteater anteter versus helmet yeah all of that to say is like like dog at the very

least if you indict michael jackson in your mind you're doing so under the pretences of what you have been told if you actually dig into the cases there's way more gray area than we are led to believe. And when you really dig into it, like, really, you find that not only are they probably lying, like, you can pretty much, I would be willing to bet that they're lying. There's just, there's just too much evidence that says otherwise. Okay. Well, that's, all right, you gave me a lot to think about.

I'm not ready to say that he's innocent. I will. I will. I will. I'll stand on the table, MJ innocent. I know he will. I think, give me a little stamp like a, like a, MJ innocent. I want that.

I think that there's a lot of stuff that I did not. know about the Michael Jackson case is that I just, you know, I didn't follow it that closely when it was happening. It was just, it seemed to me that there were, there was always like a hum of accusations surrounding Michael Jackson for as long as I was alive. So I never really took the time to dig into the actual circumstances of each trial. But yeah, there's definitely some things to think about there. And I do think that in the interest of like, of defending the kids a little bit that, that made these claims, sometimes your memory is going to be hazy, especially if you go through a traumatic experience like that.

And so, right. So when it comes to like describing the train station and all that, I could also buy the fact that like he saw the train station on the news or something, you know, years later. And then that kind of melded into his memory that he had that was repressed from when he was, you know, six years old. I could see. So like that could be something that could happen to a child's brain.

And as they realized what happened in the past, I'm not saying it doesn't do anything to like help prove that my. Jackson's guilty, but I'm just saying, like, in the interest of, like, not, I don't think that we should be so quick to be like, because a kid got his story a little bit wrong, like he was lying, because there are other ways that can affect your memory and what you think is the truth based on how your brain has, like, rolled these events up into one, especially after a traumatic experience. I do agree with that a thousand percent, and I will, I will definitely grant you that I would just

caution you with it wasn't because of the train station that changed my mind, right? It was just when the multiplicity of myth truths add up after while you're like at what point is he telling the truth if all of this shit is wrong. If all of this shit is lies

at what point are you telling the truth? And it's just like it's lie after lie after lie after lie and deceit, deceit like they covered evidence like literally in the documentary like James Safechuck they shot something, realized they fucked up, shot it again, right? And they tried to keep the scenery the same. They tried to keep his shirt the same, but there's little nuances and how they fucked up. And it was like months

later that they came back and redid it. And so like little shit like that dog, it's just like, after a while, it's like, I'm, I don't know. And let's be honest, Michael Jackson is a weird guy or he was a weird guy. He was a strange guy. You can argue like how much of that is through fault of his own and how much is just, you know, him being Michael Jackson and being famous since he was five but with the plastic surgeries uh the the baby incident where he was like holding his kid over a balcony that might be explained through like uh being addicted to painkillers and not being his right mind at the time or whatever but he was just a weird dude and so when you get the combination of all these accusations with a guy that you're already like this is a strange

motherfucker you tend to connect a lot of those dots on your own and you get the presumption of guilt sometimes thousand percent i disagree with it but i i I get how people got there because I was there, a thousand percent. All right. Anybody else have anything to add to the, to the MJ discussion? Billy? Coley? Billy, like you're doing equations in your head again, man.

It's a, it's a tough thing to respond to because either you're like, yeah, Aryan's right. All these kids are lying. Or you're like, no, fuck you, Michael Jackson's guilty of everything. There's a lot of gray area. No, it's a tough, I can hear the dial. I'm publicly, I wouldn't never ask any of y'all to be like, say it, say he's innocent. No, because it's like, now like anybody who has, and this is what I understand is like anybody who has dealt with like molestation or has seen it or know somebody or whatever the case, like in their mind, it's like you're protecting a pedophile. Like that's what you're doing.

And that's not the case. That's not what I'm doing. All I'm saying is I looked at the evidence presented and I saw the lies. I saw the coercion. I saw the deceit. I saw the the manipulation to try to get money. like all of this stuff, and it just doesn't add up for me. I could still be wrong.

I admit that, but I just don't see it. And what I don't want to do is shame other people. If you or anybody, and this is when I'll get the serious part of it, it's like, if you or anybody has seen it, felt it, whatever, like speak your truth, in the time that you want to speak it. I'm not saying that you should do any of this, anybody's way except for your own. This is just my conclusion on the Michael Jackson case, and that's it. And it's a tough hill to stand on, and I've already experienced.

experienced the worst of it when I first came out on my podcast. I was, oh, you're a pedophile sympathizer. Like, whatever, nigga. All right. So, uh, if Aryan's right, like, you can make the argument, Michael Jackson is the most publicly wronged person in the history of the United States. Like, you could, no question. You could honestly say that.

Like, it's, it's pretty fucked up if you're right about all this. Also, fuck those namla guys. Like, it, it blows my mind that they are public and they're like, this dude could be our spokesperson. Like saying, saying if, if he were to come out as like an open. child molest or like get the fuck out those guys should all be arrested no question I'm not a fan

of pedophilia I think it's disgusting I think that they have a mental disorder and I think that it is abhorrent I'm not a fan okay that's another thing that we're against on this podcast why would you say something so controversial to get so brave I mean you know me

so just as the last to wrap it all up it goes into way more detail like I just lightly touch the surface on it You know, we'd be like an hour in, but I just lightly touched the service on it. If you want like a little more detail, we'll link the pop, my old podcast, just to listen to it, just to see that how deep it goes and how long this thing has been going on because people still debate it to this day. All right. All right. You want to move on?

You want to do Big T? On a later note, yeah. OJ. You want to spend to OJ? I think he did that shit. Well, let me convince you. OJ is. Well, I think, I think, I think he knew about it.

And, like, maybe somebody else had a hand. But I think he, he was maybe, he was quarterbacking. So, so this is the one glove episode. So, uh, basically, no, this is all allegedly. I'm not, you know, even 100% convinced, but a, you shouldn't be a hundred percent convinced about anything at this stage in life. I know, I know. I just really shouldn't. Um, anyway, these are, uh, this is a theory proposed by, uh, an author named William Deere, private investigator, which you,

uses a lot of the evidence from the O.J. Simpson case. So O.J. Simpson has a son named Jason Simpson, who at the time of the murders was 24, worked in the restaurant business. And the night of the murder, he had a handwritten time stamp showing when he, you know, the time card going into work, clocking out of work, while the restaurant he worked at had a mechanical stamp that used digital imprinting, like printed it out. um so jason was never considered a uh suspect for the murder but jason had a history of not only threatening his girlfriend with a knife but his boss with a knife okay back up to the timestamp what does that have to do with anything uh saying that his alibi could have been okay so so the alibi was on the

time stamp yeah said you checked in what about do you know anything like the other employees at the restaurant at the time did they they all had stamped cards okay so that so instead of using the machine it would be like taking one of the cards just writing it in all right so when he threatened his girlfriend was there like police report was there yes okay um so also um prior to the murder uh jason was diagnosed with intermittent explosive disorder which does not involve diarrhea it has to do with anger. It involves repeated sudden episodes of impulsive, aggressive, violent behavior or angry verbal outburst in which you react grossly out of proportion to the situation. Real quick, real quick. I can't let you get away with that way that guy's joke. That was

horrible. But go ahead. Okay. I try and. Oh, the diarrhea joke? I actually, I'm actually glad I thought he was being a little bit serious because I thought there was going to be an intermittent explosive anger disorder, but in the notes just said that. Anyway, this would explain some of the partial DNA matches on the crime scene. If OJ's DNA was found at the crime scene, not fully, but of course his son would make a perfect sense of why the DNA matched. Also, Jason was put on this prescription medication called Depakote and had been known to be, you know, because of his sort of mental, but I don't want to say this, like, you know, I don't want to stigmatize mental illness because I think a lot of mentalness is just, you know, psychological deviation, which is like,

you know, it was an evolutionary trait that is now not functional in our current society. So I would like you, I would like you to, I would like you to dig into that. Well, like, for example, like, you know, ADHD, like, you're making these kids sit in chairs all day when they would have been running and doing other stuff like a hundred years ago. Anyway, not all mentalists. Some, some forms of mental illness or abnormality could be explained by that. You know what I've always thought, Doc? Well, like dyslexia.

What, they wrote backwards in ancient Egypt? Well, at some. Actually, they did. In Hebrew, yeah, okay. All right. Oh, boom. Oh, sense. So I always thought, like, so like, one time I was watching a special in Oprah,

and Oprah, and it was on schizophrenia. Yeah. And it was this little girl who had schizophrenia, and she would have people that visited her, and she named them, right? It was like, I think she named them the days. Like, Sundays over here, Wednesday comes and says, whatever. And Oprah was sitting down, she's like, do you understand the disorder that you have? And she's like, yeah, I understand.

She's like, your world and my world aren't the same. Like, we live in the different worlds. And I was like, what if, dog, like schizophrenia? You know how people always say like there's ghosts and spirits? And, like, I'm I'm not religious at all, but like, what if, like, schizophrenia is, like, you just have access to that. And you, like, that's, unless it's an intriguing thought. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but it's always true.

It is. So, um, two weeks before the murder, he ran, he stopped taking his medication. Um, he used to have these rambling thoughts. And this is, um, multiple personalities. Like, this is something that Jason Simpson wrote. Dear Jason, there are three of us here that I know about. I want solace, work was solace, was a question mark, question mark, now I am a failure. I cannot do anything right.

I cannot learn from it all. I cannot remember alcohol. Alcohol is the root of all my shortcomings. I know I'm a good guy somewhere, but I cannot find him. My innocence is lost. My eagerness is gone most of all. And most my will and integrity absent, I do not know what to do. No, I do know what to do, but I don't have the will to do it.

I'm short. I'm fucked. I've had so many plans. Now what? I cannot exercise as simple as deeds, sober, walking on broken grass. This guy is very troubled. It sounds like a my chemical romance. Yeah. Like the entire thing just sounds like a banger of a pop punk song.

So six months before the killings, Jason went to the emergency room because he heard voices of people who weren't there and felt like he was going to rage because he ran out of his medication. His Navy hat, there was a Navy hat found at the crime scene, which is called a Navy watch cap, which he's pictured. wearing and one was found that the cry I've seen of the exact same description he had much smaller hands than OJ Simpson so if you were to wear a glove but also he was trained in combat knife uh hand-to-hand combat at the Army Navy Academy he was probably sent to because he was you know such a problem at home due to his apparent mental illness um he was also a third degree black belt this guy was dangerous so you know uh there was a Mark's defensive wound sustained by Ron Goldman while fighting for his life, but O.J. Simpson had

zero scuffs, bruises or anything on him. So, you know, his own psychologist actually said that it would be impossible to convict Jason Simpson if he was accused of the murders because of his psychological state. What makes this all interesting is that, you know, he also wrote about defending his loved ones and people who hurt his loved ones how he would like use his rage to sort it out i'll find the exact quote um but you know at the end of the day there was bad alibi he had a history of violence and usage of a knife to try to cause physical harm and he had uh you know mental problems which cause anger and rage and probably carried out violence do you have anything like a motive to you said like hurt his family was he mad at his mom well that wasn't his mother

this jason's i should have prefaced this yeah jason's mother was not um uh his second uh j uh j's second was who was murdered his first wife was the mother of jason simpson okay so if you loved your father and you saw uh your stepmother maybe cheating caught in the act that would be motive enough for murder. But anyway, this is all allegedly... Billy's just asking questions, guys. I'm just asking questions, but... I've never heard the theory before, but it's definitely interesting.

But the thing is, if you were O.J. Simpson, and you came home to see that your son had gone on a rampage, snapped, and killed your wife, would you help cover it up and take the heat off of him? It's like, that's the premise of your honor. I wouldn't. But you love your son You're like the kid did that Love him to death But you can't kill people

I'm sorry You gotta go You gotta pay your dues man I'm not going to jail for you What? Yeah That's I got I got other kids Like I can't just

I'm sorry I haven't heard that theory Billy And there was like a lot of stuff That OJ did after the fact too That was Well if you were trying to take heed off Of your son

I don't know You wrote a book said If I did do it Yeah No but the thing is That's insane But come on this guy was trained in knife using knives in hand-to-hand combat and like there was stab marks

all over the two uh murder but i mean i don't think you have to be trained in knife combat to kill a woman with a knife i was going to say killing an unarmed person with a knife doesn't take particular training was there like was there was there was there was there like specific like puncture wounds where it was like you know what he was he threatened he threatened his boss and his girlfriend with a knife before and his black watch cap was found at the scene of the crime one that he's pictured wearing and that's that's intriguing i do think he had this aggressive like if anyone was prone to snap like that and kill somebody it would be someone with intermittent explosive disorder i do think the the taking the rap for your son and it kind of goes along with what you said with

michael jackson like if that's true i don't think it is but if that's really what happened then o j simpson is kind of like Michael Jackson where he's actually like one of the most noble people of all time like he was willing to go to prison for murder for a murder he didn't commit for his son like that's unreal well i think we're watching naked gun movies again yeah well i'm just saying if that's what happened i think his defense team was like they there's no way they can pin it on you because we have so much evidence against you being there and being at the scene of the murders like you know we should go with this and well they didn't know there was evidence that he was there no his DNA right but his DNA was there because he lived there sure but anyway I think this

this is a very convincing argument to me I mean you had a I would I would like to pour over the because I mean the OJ case was so publicizing it was like years ago I don't remember like all the details but i would like to kind of like revisit that and kind of that would be interesting to just in this guy he owned a multitude of knives and actually this was the one thing i forgot to say at a storage container in jason's name there was a knife found that matched the perceived description of the murder weapon hmm because he collected knives he had a lot of knives and where and where is it now that knife i discarded by now huh probably didn't this could be uh billy look this up it somebody at a house i've it may have been in

texas three or four years ago like found a knife in their buried underneath their yard or something and it had something to do with the oj case uh deer bought so so william deer the person who wrote this book bought contents of a storage locker owned by jason around the time of the murders and found a knife that matched the description of the murder weapon. After examination of Jason's knife by a world-renowned forensic scientist, the butt of the knife appears to be the match, it appears to match the blow injury to Nicole Simpson suffered at the top of her head, whereas OJ's Swiss Army knife and Stiletto working conclusively ruled out as the murder weapon

because there was no butt with a... It's a very interesting thing to delve into. There was no DNA on the knife? They didn't check for that? Probably was washed. you can't you know i'm just asking look just i'm just i'm just proposing an argument yeah no it's interesting this shit that's for sure i never i never heard about i heard his son might have done it before just from people but i mean i don't know i always thought oj did it or

had something to do with it just because i'm not sure i think i think oj definitely tried to throw everyone off the scent but you know and the thing is the subsequent oj uh you know It's just a big weirdo energy He'd on Twitter every day Yeah He didn't catch a body That whole vibe is a little off And like the white Bronco thing

To me that like Where he's got a gun to his head in the back And he's making an AC drive him around And it would honestly be the perfect way To like you know White Bronco to Mexico While you get your son figured out

Like it would be the perfect diversion Think about it Like let's make this big media thing Where I drive a white Bronco That's a good argument though is I like them like let's just drive the speed limit to Mexico and not okay so what about the shoes because weren't there like big ass shoe prints and the shoes were like they had proof of him wearing them like on a sideline doing a game like he was a like he was a sideline or something maybe

and there were only like a couple hundred pairs of those shoes that we'll remember he probably helped cover it up so he probably walked I think he went back to an a murder scene no because that would have been the first time he got there because his son if his son if his son son did you think you think he had time his son kills his ex-wife and goes hey dad uh kind of in some deep shit here can you come over well maybe he was coming home look he it's it's it's a look i just read the argument i found it very really just read something online and i just wanted to show you guys no seriously why oj's innocent thread okay no it's actually it's actually called o j's innocent and i can prove it guys this this is a safe space where we can unload

that's true our most problematic uh wrong It's pretty convincing. We might, we might lose all our sponsors, but it's going to be a great podcast. All right. All right. I get it. Billy, Billy read an article. That, no, but the last 15 minutes can be summarized as Billy read an article online. Right, but it's a lot of it. Send me that article. I'll send it to you. It's, it's on business inside. It's got to be true. I mean, it does bring up some interesting parts that I didn't really thought about or heard about. I don't know how much if it's true i mean this guy had threatened people with knives already how many times did oj threaten someone with a knife i okay but i i would so did you see did you see the the video i just sent you in

yeah so in the middle of all that arian sent a message to our group chat that was um it's oj it was i know what it was he did done like a news interview and at the end the woman goes and then this is after we were done taping i guess he like she said oj thought it was a joke and he shows up at her hotel door going he he like he was stabbing her god The knife. And he makes that noise, too. It's just weird. Just weird on shit.

Yeah. I actually, too. This was probably like six months ago because OJ tweets all the time and like he doesn't actually tweet words. He just tweets videos of himself. And he says, Hey, Twitter world. He opens the same thing.

Yeah, he opens the same thing as, hey, Twitter world. And so I have like a. I got like a three and a half minute compilation of just, hey, Twitter world. Hey, Twitter world. Hey, Twitter world. Hey, Twitter world. I got to admit. I love his Twitter videos.

Love them. Is it? That's a hot take. Do you think it's bad or good that OJ blocked me on Twitter? OJ blocks you, man? Yeah, because on one hand, it's good because he doesn't see me on the timeline ever. On the other hand, he knows who I am and got mad enough at me at one point to block me on Twitter. You're on a list.

I'm on a list of OJ's right now. You're on an OJ list. like a top 10 person in the world that you don't want to be on a list of. You know, you know who I got blocked by? I got blocked by Jerry Rice. Really? Really?

Yeah. Would you say? Stick him? You talk about stick him on his hands? No. When Jerry Rice came out with that fucking coon-ass chicken commercial with Popeyes, I lit it ass up on Twitter. What the fuck is this, though?

It's the most disgusting socially irresponsible shit you could possibly do and he blocked me. And his niece, his niece, and if you haven't seen that Popeye's commercial, please, and it's the fucking, he has that taste mask on. It's just the most tap dancing shit I've ever seen.

And his niece gets on, like, defending him, like talking about some, he's learning in his own time. And I'm like, yo, that's just the dumbest shit you can do for a black man to do a chicken commercial like that, bro. I have heard that the, uh, that the Popeye's flounder sandwich is really, really good. I haven't tried it yet, but I've been willing to. The spicy chicken sandwich is crack.

Yeah, spicy chicken's really good, but I heard that they got a new fish sandwich that came out that I have to try. I'm not, I'm not trusting fish from, uh, yeah, you're a big fish guy from fast food place, aren't you? I'm not a big, no, no, no, no, you're not at all. I thought you were a filet of fish guy. No, no, you got me mistaken for somebody else. Yeah, it's not me. I stick to the, I love the Popeye's chicken sandwich, but I heard a couple people talking about, the flounder sandwich online so i think i have to try it let's try it as a group then yeah yeah

yeah we'll get it we'll get do a taste test on it okay with that oj hired top criminal attorney carl jones to represent jason even though he wasn't a suspect via business insider it's another business insider this is all real said it was business insider what is wrong with business insider i think anyone is allowed to write an article it's basically a blog yeah not that we're anti-blog no we're not anti-blog so someone like tea could have written this yeah well hey i've some good shit. The fuck. I'm joking. Nah, fuck this.

Just for people out there, there's ways to cite your sources. Fact check your articles. If at the bottom, there isn't sources and links to the claims that they make, it's more than likely bullshit. All right, Big T. Let's go. Okay.

I just want to preface this by saying, I love criminal law. I wanted to go to law school for a long time. And I took a class in college called Criminal Law and Procedure. And we spent a class talking about the Scott Peterson case. And I looked into it more after that and it terrifies me. Like, I truly believe that this guy is sitting in Sanquit in prison, like, completely innocent of this.

And it, like, it makes me, it makes me terrified to get married. It makes me terrified to, it's just crazy. So, okay, this is going to be longer than that. Scott Peterson makes you terrified to get married. The, what happened to him, yes. Okay. Okay. I can't wait to do this. All right. So y'all, and if y'all have any, like Billy and I were four and five years old when this happened, y'all, do you remember this?

I remember the news. Okay, yeah. So if y'all have anything to say as I'm going along, please interject. I remember the Rob Lowe movie about it. Okay, yeah. So, um, okay, so Christmas Eve 2002, Lacey Peterson, who is eight months pregnant, goes missing. Her stepfather calls 911 and says, hey, my stepdaughter's missing. We believe she was out walking the dog, and now she's gone. They're like, okay. They show up at Scott Peterson's house and take him in for questioning.

He gives them all these answers, you know. And so his alibi is that he left their house at 9.30 that morning and went fishing. He had recently bought a boat some last like six months before that. And so he went to, they lived in Modesto, California. He goes to Berkeley, California, 90 miles. away and takes his boat and goes fishing. Comes back as wife's gone. Now, there were neighbors who reported to have seen her walking the dog in the time that Scott Peterson was gone. And the mailman, actually, this was a very critical thing in my mind. The mailman said that he would go by the house

every single day and the dog would bark when he got to the mailbox and the dog didn't bark meaning that nobody was home um so eventually um the cops come and they so they had scent tracking dogs that they send to the house and the scent tracking dogs instead of and they give them you know like an article of clothing or whatever so they know and the scent tracking dogs didn't go the way that Lacey would have walked. They went the direction of the road, meaning that she could have left in a car, like been abducted.

Now, here's another critical piece of evidence. I'm kind of jumping all over the place, but there was a burglary across the street the same day. And so the one theory is that she could have witnessed something related to that burglary, And they were like, shit, now we got to, you know, do something with this woman. The cops claim that they checked the alibis of the burglars and that, like, they were fine, which, sure, there was some shoddy police work going on that I'll get to in a minute. So eventually-

Check an alibi for a burglar. Right. Yeah. They were like, oh, no, the burglars are clean. No, I was in the jewelry box between 11-30. Yeah, no, they're like, oh, yeah, we definitely committed that burglary, but we didn't touch this woman. And then the cops were just, like, good to go. So, wait, the burglars got arrested.

Yeah, the burglars were in jail when they got questioned about the murder. And they're like, oh, yeah, we definitely robbed that house, but didn't, didn't touch that woman. And the cops are like, sounds good to us. Okay. So. Appreciate your plan. Take care. Yeah.

Yeah. So Scott Peterson is supposedly fishing, comes back. His wife is gone. Um, and then this becomes, real quick, can you imagine like the terror that you would feel if you had been, if you were accused of murder and you were actually fishing somewhere. It terrifies. yourself and you're like fuck my alibi is like i was literally by myself on a on a boat in the middle now that's okay that's a very critical thing that you bring up also so this becomes

a massive real quick real quick was that was there was there was cell phones back then no 2002 yeah yeah so so can't you just track his location i don't know if they had that like 2002 i guess it was like a you know a nokey is no key yeah there are flip phones you were either making a call you were playing snake that's the only two options so but you brought up you brought up you brought up, he's out in the middle of Berkeley Marina, right? So, um, this becomes a massive media story, national story. Um, and here's the thing that, you know, they say, so I guess I'll, I'll ruin the, all, spoiler alert, her body was found in, uh, the San Francisco Bay three months later. But if you had killed her and you weren't Scott Peterson, right? And this becomes a, a media

fiasco and you know that he was in his boat in Berkeley Marina what a perfect i mean you're off scot-free no pun intended you go dump the body where he was fishing done scott free i just got that that was yeah i did so so wait you're saying so wait you're saying it's more likely that the no no no no no that the real murder watched the news yes and was like scott said hang on and we're gonna get we're gonna get to more i'm gonna go in the bay we're gonna get to more that there's no physical evidence tying him to this crime whatsoever well what about the what about the pliers in his fishing okay okay so you want to do pliers you want to do we'll do the players right now we'll do the you want to do pliers i want to do the pliers right now we can do so so there is one piece of physical

evidence real even remotely related to this crime and scott peterson in his um shed where he kept his boat at the Berkeley marina there is a pair of pliers that had one of his wife's hairs on it now the prosecution claimed oh he was wrapping a cord around her neck with these pliers and that's how one of her hairs got on it first of all a one hair being on a piece of pliers in a shed that like your wife has been to is perfectly plausible. Secondly, they, okay, so here was another critical piece of evidence. So the cops claim that the boat had only been purchased very recently and that Lacey had never been to that warehouse.

They said she never went there. Turns out she was there three or four days before Christmas and the person who runs the thing was like, yeah, she was here the other day. and they left that out of the police report okay um so she had been there very recently and you know hairs fall out of your head all the time i mean that's happens yeah so no no blood in their house no blood in his truck no blood on the boat um also there were there were several people who saw him at the marina that day and they said did he you know have a body and they were like no like he put his boat in the water and left um talk about tell about tell about jeep

Talk about, time about the hair and the pliers. Yeah. Did they find, like, where was it in the pliers? Uh, I think it was like, I don't know that exactly, but it was one hair. It was literally one of her hairs and one consistent with her hair. We believe it was hers. Um, somehow like entangled in the pliers. T, what about the infidelity?

Okay. So this is a critical piece. I love this. We got, we got the prosecution. This is a critical piece. Now, now, I'm, I'm on a sideline. And maybe it was a mistress at the boathouse. And this is, she, this is what, oh, whoa.

No, no, no. This is what scares me. Because Lula asked the marina got, oh, was his wife here? Like, yeah, there was a woman here. Yeah. I don't know if it was his wife. No, Billy's right. Dude, this guy's so guilty.

Just like, shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. He's right. So guilty. Go read business insider. Okay, Billy. Listen. A boat guy and a golf course attendant are the same guy.

If they see a woman, they're like, yeah, there was a chick here. I'm pretty sure he would have been able to tell the difference between the eight-month pregnant woman and his mistress. But that's a very critical part of this because this is the part that terrifies me. So comes out three weeks after this whole thing blows up in the media that he had been dating this woman named Amber Fry. She was led to believe that he and so then the cops find out about this. So the cops have her record phone conversations that she's having with Scott. and this dude is a piece of shit like one like a true world class asshole he's he's telling all these weird lies at one point he's at a candlelight vigil for his missing wife and he tells

um amber that he is in paris he's like oh you should see it the fireworks for uh like new years are amazing here like it's incredible and the cops were listening to the phone call and they literally know that he's at this vigil for his wife. Terrible person, piece of shit. Does not make him guilty of murder. So he, and when those were played at trial, that had a big impact on the jury. They're like, wow. And the prosecution's whole argument was like, look at what a piece of shit this guy is must have killed his wife.

So didn't she testify against him? I believe she testified in the trial, yeah. Well, she, I mean, not, I guess it's against him. I mean, it's what happened. Like, he was cheating on his wife with her. Again, horrible. Awful thing to do. And the prosecution's theory for a motive basically became that this guy's wife is pregnant.

He doesn't want this baby with her. He wants to start a life with this other woman. Let's just get rid of it. Okay. Doesn't seem very valid to me. His wife was eight months pregnant. Like, whatever. Now, there's also another piece of this.

So there, you, we talked about hell earlier and some Satan shit going on. There's some Satan shit in this trial. So six months before Lacey Peterson disappeared, another eight-month pregnant woman was abducted, I believe like 15 or 20 miles away from their house by this satanic ritual group, something. And they, so they killed this woman. Her body washes up in the San Francisco Bay. with her head cut off basically just a torso

which is pretty much how they found Lacey Peterson almost the exact same circumstances several months beforehand that wasn't even looked into but once you start going to like the satanic ritual murder as the excuse

that's where you start to lose me I'm just saying that that happened so then so finally Scott gets so three months later the body watches up in the San Francisco Bay, hers and the babies.

The babies was separate. Watched up in the San Francisco Bay and they arrest Scott. He was arrested between Modesto where he lived and San Diego with like $10,000 in cash in his car, his brother's driver's license, and his hair was dyed. And so everybody took that to me, listen. Nope, you got to listen. See, this is why you, no. I mean, that's what Skip Bay listed.

Sure. Colin Coward, when they moved out to L.A. Okay. So people are like, this guy had his, had his hair dyed in $10,000 in cash and his brother's driver's license. He was going to play golf with his brother and dad in San Diego. His brother, I believe it, like, left his driver's license at his house. So he needed it back. And his brother was going to buy his truck from Scott.

The mom. So he had the $10,000 has changed. The mom, you got to listen. You're doing a bad job of listening right now. Okay. The mom fronted Scott, the $10,000. thousand dollars for the car and the scott's brother was going to pay her back so he had 10 grand in cash and and let's go with and here's another thing uh let's say he was escaping to Mexico

which is what people seem to to go with i didn't say that sure but you still haven't addressed the dyed hair how old was he uh in his 30s um i think it was a little bit older than that wasn't he i don't think so she was she was like 27 um you can look that up but how old is he right now oh yeah he's 48 right now so he's 30 so he's 30 yeah dying your hair at 30 though okay so let's say he was packing it up and escaping to Mexico if i was about to be arrested for a murder that i didn't commit i would and i was 100 miles from mexico i'd consider it too if that's what he was doing i don't find that to be that egregious well egregious inter like sure it's illegal i don't find it to be out of the realm of possibility of what someone would do if

they were accused of killing their wife when they didn't do it okay he was also uh teammates with phil mccleson in high school really golf really golf teammates did not know that another felon did the satanic cult ever i don't know the thing also might be the murderer uh no but if you want to talk about so we're skipping to the end um you were skipping to the end i'm not going to skip to the end just yet so so now they go to his trial right And he didn't have any money to hire a lawyer, but this guy, Mark Garagos, who's a very famous celebrity attorney, takes his case. So in the opening arguments, and in his questioning, when he first, the same day, Christmas Eve, when they took him in for questioning, they were like, what did you do that morning? And he's like, so we watched Martha Stewart, and then, which is her favorite show, and then I took my car and left.

Another fella. And they were, well, so this is important. So they say what was discussed on Martha Stewart? And he said, it was something about like meringue, meringue cookies. And so in the opening argument of his trial, the prosecution goes, we went back and watched the Martha Stewart from that day. And there's nothing on it about that. That was from the day before.

And so then the defense gets up in their opening argument. And the prosecution was so sloppy that they said they watched this tape. that they very obviously did not watch because they play the episode from December 24th and there's a segment on there about making meringue cookies. So they get up there

and immediately, you're laughing. That's like huge. That's a massive. It was just you just saying meringue cookies. It's a massive break. I wasn't watching Martha Stewart in 2002, but that's so massive to show that like these guys zeroed in

on her husband, decided that he murdered her and they were going to do whatever it took to put this guy away and they were incredibly shoddy in how they did it um so again can i just rewind for just one second i know i'm being a bad listener but i feel like that's okay fact checking is important from time to time on the show uh so i'm reading that he had 15 000 in cash 12 Viagra tablets survival gear camping equipment that's yes correct four cell phones and his brother's driver's license in addition to his own right so as i said if he was escaping to Mexico

I don't find that to be out of character for someone who is accused of a murder that they didn't commit. Okay. All right. The Viagra? Listen, brother. You need Viagra to Mexico. Yeah. I actually like his dad's explanation about the brother's driver's license.

Makes a lot of sense. He said that Scott Peterson had used his brother's driver's license to get a resident discount at a golf course in San Diego. And he had to prove that he among us who has not gotten the resident discount cast the first stone. um so but yeah like even if he was trying to escape to mexico i don't i think that would be perfectly explainable like if you were fixing to go down for a murder that you didn't commit um let me make sure by the way there was no satanic cult murder there was no satanic cult murder oh yes it was just rumored no there was no evidence of one in the san francisco bay a woman bring it up bring up the case okay while you're looking at some good job

Billy, you're the prosecution. I appreciate you. I'm just in the, I'm in the jury. I'm not even in the jury. I'm just in the stands. The only link was that both murders like marked holy days on the Santanic calendar. The one, the eight month, it's, uh, it was a Hispanic woman. Evelyn Hernandez, who I'm missing on May 1st, 2002 and also later washed up in the San Francisco Bay.

With no head, no arms. That both dates mark holy days on the satanic calendar. Okay. That being one. piece of evidence does not mean it's the sole piece of evidence, Billy. You're a bad reader. Well, you're saying that there's a satanic cult and there's no satanic cult. Yes. I watch. Hold on, player. Hold on. What is the link between the deaths and the satanic cult? I don't like, it's not like there were people who came forward and said, yeah, we committed these

murders as a satanic cult. This is why our bodies. What's Satan's stuff? Their bodies were dismembered exactly the same. They washed up in the exact same spot of the San Francisco Bay. And as Billy said they were something to do with some sort of satanic calendar it's a theory no it's a something to do with some this is where you lose me but because every time somebody brings up the satan part of the people love people love to blame shit on like satanic rituals like that's just a fact by the way it moves it's so it was not even an important part of the story the person who sent the letter to the california attorney in general to stop uh lacey peterson uh william dana meyer was the congressman who proposes satanic cult theory and i think this is also the guy who said that

dungeons and dragons was satanic okay there we go okay that was not an important part of the story you can't no you can't drop satan on us and expect okay fine sure not an important thing is a hot topic yeah very hot so let's go this guy is also uh danamire believed that the jews are trying to take over the world okay i'm sorry no what websites are you reading here is this is a storm front i watched a six-hour documentary on this okay anyway um so we're back to the trial now another thing about the trial this became a huge media story all across the country uh gyrgos goes to the judge and says there's no way we're going to get a fair trial in stanislaus county where modesto is this this needs to be moved judges like you know what you're right we're going to move it

an hour up the road i want to go on a diatribe about this real quick if we truly believe that moving trials has an effect on their fairness and someone's guilt or innocence, then like we should actually move them to like the middle of nowhere, Kansas or something. Anybody an hour away from that, that's the same TV market. Like everybody knew all about it. And that comes into play later. So two jurors were dismissed. One for basically trying to get on the jury. Like she wanted to be on the jury very badly um the other i forget why why he was dismissed he was dismissed very early on but so peterson's um uh death penalty sentence was just overturned like six months ago because of errors in jury selection that the judge made the judge um did not allow

two people on the jury who said they personally did not agree with the death penalty but would be willing to impose it which goes against a supreme court um also scott peterson with viagra in his car going to mexico who's to say that he didn't do both murders and dumping it in the san francisco bay was his well it's spot it seems well he didn't have a boat for that first one i don't think and it seems very implausible to me that he would have killed evelyn hernandez for no reason Evelyn Hernandez was found after when he still had a boat and maybe was just found later. Okay, sure, Billy, dude. Anyway, let's get more, more problem than the satanic cult. No, I don't think it is.

There's been no evidence. So you're saying it cult. Yeah, so you think the satanic cult is not important. It has virtually nothing to do with this. It's just a whole thing. Because it's a potential explanation for what happened. It's not actually important as to why Scott Peterson is guilty or innocent. Okay, here's another piece.

Go ahead. Just playing devil's advocate because I don't know. I don't even know this, can't be honest. I don't really, I didn't follow the case. But like if I'm bringing up a point, especially like here, if I'm bringing up a point, if it's not like substantiated, there's no point to even bring it up. You're right. It is a theory.

And then you, but then you can't get mad at Billy Ocean. Well, I'm not mad at. I'm not mad at Billy. It's let me. It is a theory as to what could have happened. It has no bearing on his guilt or innocence. Okay, what about this? I'm fascinated by this piece of evidence.

To me, this slam shut everything Big T has just said in the last 30 minutes. So two days after she went disappearing, two days after, he doesn't know what's going on. Let's say he is innocent. Right. One of the scariest situations, any human could ever find him or herself in. Yep. Doesn't know if she's coming back or not because who knows. she could be alive, right?

He goes out and he adds two porno channels to his cable service. He did do that. Now, yeah. Let's think about this for once. Now, Aaron, is that, no. Is that the actions of a man that thinks that his wife might be walking in the door at any second? I pray to God, I never get one of you guys on a jury to determine if I'm guilty of murder or not. This is insane.

This is exactly what I'm talking about this man was convicted for being a shagny person. It's really not. He was convicted for being a piece of shit. You know, convicted of murder for being a shitty guy. That does not make you a murderer. Being a piece of shit does not make you guilty of murder. Literally, they said that the only way it could be innocent was an even shittier group of people, like the shittiest of all time. You're so wrong.

You're so stupid. They literally like was like, this guy's so shitty, but the shittier people. There was a burglary across the street the same day, Billy. And did the burglars that held held the body for a long time and then dumped it in the sea when they thought all you guys. More potential evidence to that theory. So, yes, there is there. So the baby, okay, so now let's go back to the bodies found in the San Francisco Bay. Her body has no head, no arms, barely any legs, virtually just a torso.

The baby's body was almost fully intact with some sort of tape, something wrapped around its neck. The prosecution claims this was sea, seaweed, whatever it was. but some people believe that so these burglars commit the burglary they take her hold her hostage for a while and then once they realize that scott peterson is being looked into for this murder they kill her but by this time she's had the baby so they then strangle the baby and then whenever they're dumped into the san francisco bay which would explain why the baby was separate from the mother and intact now that to me seems like if you're a burglar who's just out for a burglary and then that escalates into kidnapping woman that saw something and then that escalates into helping her give birth and then killing your child like I don't think that Harry and Marr from home alone would it sure again but what's the it was a mistake to bring up any alternative theories with you guys because they're not let's focus on whether or not Scott Peterson is guilty or innocent because I don't want to keep focusing on these alternative theories that really don't have... They're interesting.

You got to admit that there's holes in them. Sure. Yeah. Okay. That's all we're pointing out. We don't know who could... I don't know who committed this murder. They're all theories that could potentially explain what could have happened.

But in terms of the trial of Scott Peterson, they're not really relevant, which is why I don't want to focus on them anymore, Billy. So, back to Scott Peterson's trial. So the police claim that Lacey didn't know about the boat at all and then the guy says that she was there three days before whatever

that's taken out of the police report they have and again no physical evidence there's no blood in the house there's no blood in his car there's no blood on the boat the only thing they did find they found

some sort of and this isn't physical evidence it's circumstantial again but they found some sort of homemade anchor in his his boat house and they found more like cement mixing powder that they claim means he would have made more and they weren't there again we don't know whether that's true or not and there were no anchors

found on um lacey or connor's body so big t you i will give you the the prosecution was a hundred percent sloppy yeah as one of the worst tried cases i've ever seen which is what i want to focus on well there's probably a lot of badly tried prosecutions but you know but when somebody's life is on the line uh you should be a bit more that they focused on this guy and there were never any there's no there's nobody else they even really looked into as a suspect i can't believe you're not you're not bringing up the fact that the dog suck the scent oh yeah so well we were getting to that so the scent dogs that they used also at the boat house um their their their certifications had expired which was also another part of getting his death sentence overturned so yeah and the dog that they used to track shit

down it failed two thirds of the test that they gave it so it was the world's dumbest dog yeah the modesto police department was criminally negligent um and so uh oh also another key piece of evidence in the time that scott claims he was gone somebody at the peterson house googled they were shopping online and they looked at an umbrella with sunflowers on it a scarf from the gap and a weather vein and Lacey Peterson had a tattoo of a sunflower on her ankle so I guess you can claim that that could have been Scott Peterson T you're leaving out the phone book opened on the table that was on a defense attorney when the police came to the house there was an

Open phone book He's got a defense He's got the yellow pages Open to Lionel Huts He's got his TV tuned to spice He's got lotion And I want to go back to I want to go back to that

He's already got a St. Polygirl neon sign of his main cage I want to go back to that This guy's guilty as fuck No this is no You get you know And he was I want to go

Billy stop talking for a second Stop talking for one second I want to go back to something The PFT said The porn channel thing Yeah if your wife went missing and you had an inclination that you were immediately being looked into as a suspect and you're like fuck I don't have like you know my alibi is that I was gone I don't know how much that does um I could very well be be accused of this murder that is the most terrifying and I can't even imagine what a human mind would go through you got to jack off immediately you got to jack off got to rub one out yeah and if and if that was what went through his mind i find that to be perfectly reasonable i don't i don't find that to be some sort

of damning evidence like ha ha the wife's gone does he does he claim like what were there what was their relationship like was there any kind so he um so everybody said that like you know the outside oh they had a great marriage whatever never saw him have a fight obviously he wasn't entirely happy in his marriage he was cheating on his wife um but that again that does not make you guilty of murder No, but this is it. Like, okay, let's say I'm breaking up with an X, right? I just recently broke up with an X.

I don't necessarily like her right now. But if she goes missing for a day, I'm going to try to find her, dog. Like, I'm worried. We might have our rifts, but it's like, you have a certain amount of care to be like, well, what would you have to do? Well, I'm unsure, did he, did he alert

the authorities. Was he on the phone with him? Was he like, yo, let me know what you know. My understanding is he came back from his fishing trip, supposedly, if that's where he was and called his wife's parents and was like, hey, do y'all know where she is? She's not here. And then they said no. And I think it was her stepdad who called the police. So he didn't even call the police. But I don't think he thought in the, well, if you come home and your wife's not home is your first inclination, she might be with her parents or somewhere else or she's been killed. Yeah, but by the way. So then it makes sense that you would call them before the police.

But when did he get in contact with the police? They got in contact with the police the same day. The fact that he, I don't think that's very relevant. It's, I do. I think, not only that, I think it's really weird. Like, it's really fucking weird. It is. That you ordered two different porn channels.

Like, what kind of like, why is one just enough? He was a shitty dude. He was a weird guy. I don't know. Two? Two is wild. I think, no, I, I can understand, too. One is, like, presumably he's a straight guy.

One is for normal, like, male-on female porn. And then you've got to stack the lesbian channel on top of that, too. So I think... Sounds reasonable. By the way, the cord found around the baby's neck was an umbilical cord. It was not a foreign... I don't think that's accurate. It says it right here.

He said... Where? Business Insider? It's on business insider. Yeah, it's on business insider. No. Facebook of BuzzFeed Wikipedia. All right. Well, no, no, no, I've got more. I've got more. So eventually the prosecution's entire case was based around these phone calls that he had with

Amber Fry where he's telling all sorts of weird shit and he's telling her how much he loves her and he's going to leave his wife, this, that, and the other. And he was convicted for being a shitty person, which, and that's the part that terrifies me. Like not one shred of physical evidence. and no murder weapon um they have nothing they have literally nothing on this guy and he's in prison so after um so after he's in prison this is this is at the very end of the uh the a and e scott peterson documentary okay there's a prison phone call between an inmate named scott tinbrink and his brother adam and any phone call in prison that's not what the lawyer is recorded so there's a there's a guard listening to this phone call and um the brother says that he spoke with a guy named

Stephen Todd, who is one of the people that police questioned he robbed the house across the street. And Stephen Todd says that Todd said that Lacey saw the men robbed the house and confronted them. And so Mark Garagos and their team, they found out about this phone call very late in the trial and they didn't have time to vet it and it didn't go into the court proceedings and then later in that phone call the guys like you need to shut the fuck up like these are recorded like literally stop talking and um and then the tape was conveniently lost uh by the state and it no longer exists and the guard won't talk to anybody so how do we know it was on the tape

that was i i don't know you heard well sure but like i i don't think word on the street is this is so crazy no no no no no no big too you're not crazy you start right now hold on who the fuck is Scott Peterson. Who is he? What does he do? He's a fertilizer salesman. So like this grand like conspiracy by the state losing a tape like come come on my day for Scott. It's not like a political figure. It's not like I mean it's one of the most high profile murder murder trials in the US in the 21st century. But what is it to the US to the state to to keep him behind? incredibly embarrassing if they had a something of that magnitude overturned and then have what they

I don't believe they think he's a murderer but what they have to to show is like front as a murderer the set free that that's that sound like a reach to me so so the taste this state's hiding evidence for like a regular white dude that killed his wife man I don't know man I didn't say they hit it the tape just no longer exists so but you don't know that the tape ever existed because well sure then how do any of us know anything what do you with evidence Big T, you can't just be like there was a tape of somebody else confessing to the murder, but it's not there anymore. I do not. I do not own the tape. It was in an A&E documentary using people's names who are real people who would sue them for libel if that was not true. So I don't know. I don't know what to tell you.

Oh, this wasn't even like on HBO. This is an A&E documentary. Yeah, it was A&E. A&E's like lifetime, dog. It's like a little sauce. Again, I don't know what to tell you. How do anything? of us know anything then but that mean that's a great question philosophically right to what degree do we know things but uh if you're going to convince me that there's a tape out there so i'm going to need something more than hearsay well again uh we as i said it was very the the defense team didn't have time to look into it and they didn't put it into the trial so maybe they they thought it was bullshit

i don't know you know what it's just something that was that was brought up you know what i've learned from i don't know the last five years of consuming media and listen to big t talk is that you can you can sell a true crime mini series on anything. You could take anybody and be like, this dude actually might be innocent. And then stitch together five episodes about it and then people will just go nuts. Like, I want

like cereal. I want to do that, though. Matter of fact, can that be an episode dog where we construct our own conspiracy theory and we like pinpoint shit and connect shit? That's not to be like construct our own. But we absolutely know that they're I just not true. I have one make it happen. I have one question.

Because I'm, I'm, so would the three of y'all, y'all all think this guy killed his guy. Yes, I do. That, I don't know, but it looks, he looks sketched. That terrifies, I'm so much more scared walking, leaving this room than I came into it, like living in this country of a jury of one's own peers. Not one shred of physical evidence, no murder weapon. That is concerning. It is concerning that like having no physical evidence, like no, there's no, there's nothing like that. I get that.

Not any. I'm actually I the retrial is going to be good because I think the prosecution was shoddy probably not going to get a retrial it's just well they might redo the penalty phase where they're they might try to impose a death penalty is very hard to convince 12 people to agree on a death penalty very hard I don't believe it is no no there shouldn't be a death penalty at all it's stupid I agree what can you can you can you can you admit this big T that a lot of your points that you brought up have holes in them. What you're trying to do is place reasonable doubt, right? The definition of reasonable doubt is this case. And I don't disagree with that, right? I believe that there's reasonable doubt. But you're convinced he's innocent.

And you say, I'm terrified for whatever, right? Like, we don't live in that age anymore. Like, you have cell phones. You could have house cameras. There's places that can place. like this is not a thing you should actually feel sure if you know it's a fun experiment big t i like you to do this for for next week's episode i want you to think if you were to kill billy describe to me how you would kill billy and then how you would get away i want you to plan a murder

i would rather not do you have a way better chance of getting away from it than scott pearson because i you know you are doing a nefarious thing it's impossible to go into mexico i truly think that it's impossible to commit murder nowadays and get away with it i understand with cell phones yeah unless you do like like spy shit yeah so big t that's your homework assignment i would rather not come on a podcast and and uh lay out how i would because then your inevitable actual murder trial like 12 years from now i'm declining to do that explaining how you're on a podcast but i again if i had to pick guilty or innocent i do believe this guy's innocent but you don't have to go into court and prove you're innocent

that would be sick if big tea did that episode and then somebody out there like a listener killed billy in that same way no okay now and then that's what happened to scott peterson that's what happened to scott peterson they fucking put it on the news that's what we put it on the news they're like hey we think this guy might have killed his wife and gone on his boat in the berkeley marina right around here is where we think it might have happened and then these guys like no shit what a fucking stroke of luck uh to wrap things up let's just rank the three people that we just mine was going to be sir hand sir hand the guy that shot r fk i think he actually did have a gun and fired his weapon but i think that there was another shooter that's the real

kennedy second shooter because there were 13 gun shots and his his uh gun only held eight bullets and there's a bunch of other stuff that's kind of uh we'll do jfk like like eyewitness stuff but this was that's not jfk we'll do case the ks okay just how many ks it's an interesting how many of them there's three of them isn't there really god damn there was john john no joe the eldest brother who died in a experimental bomber crash in world war two okay mine was uh those drones what other are there other kennedy are there other kennedy's um then there is the daughter who was put in a same side boom we should actually do a kennedy episode be it is the uh this the thing is called the kennedy curse isn't it yeah yeah yeah yeah all right so let's rank them in terms of uh

I don't know how most most not guilty that's maybe on a spectrum one to 10 not guilty and guilty where I'm guilty one is one is not guilty 10 is absolutely guilty where I'm at right now with Michael Jackson I'm at a five which is it's considerable because going where were you I was probably at like an eight nice or nine yeah we're by the way we're doing Jason Simpson for me is how guilty is he right I think he's okay yeah So, Billy, what's your ranking on? I think Michael, Michael, I think Jason Simpson's more guilty than Michael Jackson. Bro, do this spectrum, bro.

We just laid out a-1 to 10. But we're ranked them on different things. No, rank or not. Michael Jackson. One to what? 10. Okay. I'm, I got to just, for political reasons, it's a five.

It's right down the middle. Political? What the, what the, what the, what do you find this guy? Only like a political answer. Do you not running for office and they go, what the, what the, no, I think, I think a, like he's, We're sure as hell not after this podcast. Four. Oh, for sure.

Four. Okay. Four. Three and a half. Michael Jackson, I'm a six. I had no opinion. I had no opinion on it coming into this. I found most of what you said valid.

I just, in my mind, the having a children's theme park in your home and like inviting the, it just, it, it could very well. I could be swayed to a four. I could be swayed to a four. But as it stands, I'm a six. I like it. I'm at a one I am at a one He wasn't on Epstein's flight logs

Michael Jackson It's true Was or was not He was not on his flight logs Hmm Chris Tucker was though Right I mean it's Michael Jackson

Yeah Yeah There's that right So Billy Your guy Jason is that name Jason Simpson? Yeah

One OJ did that shit Yeah I just thought it was an interesting theory you read an article and it was an interesting article book yeah yeah uh I'm gonna say I'm gonna say a three it's intriguing but I still think oh they do this I mean I yeah you all say it's intriguing though it's intriguing though it's intriguing though but I was a one before yeah there you go

yeah I'll say I'll say two I mean yeah there there's too much all right and then big T Scott Peterson zero the moment of truth you're a I'm a zero. How can you possibly be a zero? Let me rephrase. Let me rephrase because you guys are misquoted. Let me rephrase. In terms of should he have been convicted under U.S. law for murder?

Zero. Do I think he did it? Still no, but like a three. But in terms of did they have evidence to convict him like negative 10? I went into it open-minded and you made me think he was more guilty. Well, Billy, go read. business insider maybe they'll tell you something different it was about a book i mean if we're going to go with a source off here you had a couple pretty shoddy sources of your own no the satan stuff didn't

do anything again you guys focused on that you guys would be so easily swayed on a jury bro you brought it up yes yes that was my mistake that was my mistake because it wasn't it wasn't relevant to whether he's guilty or innocent it was a potential explanation for what could have as as a lawyer mr i wanted to go to law school. Everything that leaves your mouth should have some semblance of credibility. And everything that you say that loses credibility waters down your grace. Yes. It was a mistake. It was a mistake to say that if I would have known that you guys were going to hone in on that instead of what actually mattered. But you guys would be so easily swayed on a jury. It's crazy. You one case of evidence was a satanic cult. No. There is no evidence. That's the whole point, Billy. There's no

evident. That's the whole thing. Big T. When, when, when you know, right, this deeper than I do, right? But as you're presenting it, I'm looking at it like everything has the equal amount of value. You're correct. I don't know what you prioritized. Yes. So it is absolutely your fault and how you presented that. Yes, I fucked up. But let me, let me clarify just one last time that the alternative theories for what could have happened bear no, uh, responsibility. or have nothing to do with the evidence that was presented against him in court and whether or not he was guilty or innocent.

They had no evidence to convict him of murder. You actually convinced me that he also killed Hernandez. That's fantastic. You know, maybe they'll put that in the next business insider post. I'd be interested to read that. I'm going to rate it. I'm a rated seven. It's because I don't know enough about it.

But from what you told me, I think he probably did that shit. I don't know enough about it, though, so I'm going to, I'm going to like a 7th. Okay. I thought we lived in a country of loss. This is insane. I kind of, I kind of have to agree with Big T's thesis that it was not a lot of evidence that he was convicted on. Not a lot. Zero.

Not a lot at all. You forget about the porn channel, Big T. That's, that's not evidence. That's so insane. If I ever, if, you know, we're all fucked. I mean, I just pray. I just pray that something like that never happens. That's so terrifying.

That you never get a porn channel? No, that's so terrifying that you would take that as it, be like, yeah, killed his wife, done deal. Like, that's, that's insane. It's not the behavior of somebody that thinks that their wife could be going on. You don't know what the behavior of somebody is whose wife is disappeared and you're being, you're being attacked. Moral to the story. But I do know, I don't be a shitty human. I do know the mental mindset of somebody who's afraid of being walked in on while I'm jacking off.

And I know that very well, my friend. You think he wouldn't get a phone call first? that like hey no found lacey no like the sheriff walks in can imagine how embarrassing that would be he didn't even call the police didn't even call the cops all right but is your but big t i'm in the middle of of saying good things about you kind of okay okay i think that there was not a lot of evidence that they had to directly tie him to the murder like no blood no real murder weapon they just have him in the place where the body was found um but it's all not even there miles from there but It's ocean currents.

Yeah, continue. But yeah. I think that he definitely probably did it. But I think that the evidence is a little shoddy. So I'm going to put Scott Peterson at a seven, at a seven. That's great. I'll give you. So most innocent, Jason Simpson.

Congratulations, Jason. You're walking free. Billy, Billy got you, Billy got you off. Billy Simpson. I was already not. I just thought it was an interesting. By the way, the Business Insider article. was about a book with plenty of sources.

Okay. It's an article about a book. It was a book. About sources. Got it. Anyway, it was really good. Billy Simpson. It's an interesting, it's just an interesting theory.

I guess it is. Yeah. All right. Well, insert, answer, hand, obviously innocent. We all agree about that. Okay, cool. No, he didn't.

He definitely had a hand in it. But anyways, next week, hell. We're doing the hell episode. I'm excited about that. There's, I am too. Dude, hell, there's a lot that you can. get into on hell and the devil and it's gonna fucking rock i get i might write like an acdc type song hellbound by m&m freestyle there you go i'm going to hell uh with me real quick erin

guess big t's underwear mhm gray i got to tell you i honestly don't even remember okay here we go so we're going to do a live live reveal what is that oh gray there's gray waistband gray and orange it's gray and orange it's gray and orange it's gray and orange but gray waistband but gray waistband that's a that's a win we'll we'll count that as we'll count that as half that's a tie it's a draw

that's a dog all right the colors though it's like 12 there's a ton of colors see y'all in hell see you in hell next week I love it bill yeah love you guys and like subscribe on YouTube we appreciate everybody watching on YouTube so make sure to smash that

subscribe button tell a friend leave us a nice review and as always we will accept any constructive feedback as long as you tell us how handsome we are in said feedback. All right. Love you guys.