Macrodosing: Arian Foster and PFT Commenter - Biohacking

Episode Date: April 13, 2021

On today's episode of Macrodosing, the crew talks about the weird world of biohacking with SPECIAL guest Josiah Zayner, who Billy claims to be the Lebron James of biohacking. Don't miss this one, it was awesome. 11:00 Billy nose 15:00 biohacking chickens 16:55 frogs 45:25 For the greater good of Vermont 47:20 Being dumb 48:00 Josiah Zayner Interview 51:30 Billy DM Bullfrog 53:20 Harassing 1:00:00 GUT HACK 1:15:00 Muscle injection 1:28:00 Health 1:34:00 Clutch gene, height talk 1:41:50 Frog talk 1:55:00 End of INTYou can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/macrodosing

Hey, macro dosing listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Welcome back to another episode of macro dosing. This is going to be a very fun one. Today, we're getting into a topic very near and dear. I'll say this. I think that we're going to see the reemergence of Smart Billy today. I'm pretty confident.

At least we're going to see passionate Billy come at us because this is a topic that's near and dear to his heart. It's biohacking. We're going to be talking about CRISPR. this is Billy right now is like a like a one year old golden retriever that you've left in a pen all day then he'd come home from work he's just shaking with excitement he's got all sorts of questions so it's going to be great episode we're going to get in some some fun stuff some crazy stuff I actually think that we've got our first interview here we're going to be interviewing Josiah Zayner he's a doctor he's a biohacker he's a controversial guy but he's done a lot of studying

and he's actually a participated biohack he biohacked himself so it'll be fascinating to to have that conversation with him. Before we get into everything, because Billy's just absolutely ready to go right now. We were talking right before we went on the air about how somebody needs to biohack the hiccups. Because I've had the hiccups a lot recently.

I don't know what's going on. And then Coley just told me that he cured the hiccups. Not that he has a cure, that you cured the hiccups. How did you do that? Listen, if you Google Coley, Mick, hiccups come up, I believe is the third thing these days. It's in the top five. Coley Mick, yeah, Coley Mc, Barstool, Coley Mick, Feet Pictures, Coley McHick, hiccups.

Yep, you're right. Yeah, those are the top three. So back in December, Marty Mush tweeted out, and you're going to have to ignore the beginning of this tweet because it's from Marty Mush. Middle school is bullshit. They said, hold your breath to make sure your diaphragm slows down so you don't have hiccups, but guess what? I still have hiccups.

I don't remember that part of middle school, but it reminded me that someone a while, even earlier than that, had tweeted me that a Nicaraguan grandfather who practiced medicine in New York had the cure all along. And I have signal boosted his cure to the point where now every day someone tweets me, thank you, because of my good work here. What you do is you fill your lungs via the mouth. You have to use your mouth. You swallow twice in a row while holding your breath now it's a dry swallow depending on how your mouth and glands work but it's it's a drier especially that second one a little drier swallow this is like you know that small small hole they put on like the back of your router or some shit to reset it

yeah this is your body's reset button um so you do that swallow twice and then you exhale very controlled and slowly through your nose boom they're gone okay that thank you for your service Coley. I've got a way that usually works like 90% of the time, but that's me, if you're talking about like the reset button that you have to use a ballpoint pin to hit, uh, that the analogy that you made actually convinces me that, that your method is probably better. So thank you. Yeah. I mean, I don't know why they make the reset button so small that you have to find like a bobby pin or some shit, but that's a different, different topic for a different day. Well, I think they do. I think that's smart. I think that's smart because I don't disagree that it's not smart, but it's almost like they should have a tool built. into it because I don't always have like a paper clip or something at like at the ready it's smart though because you don't be keep you don't keep on hitting the reset button on accident you know yeah and also they probably get some calls to the cable repair man to come over from some older ladies that are like I can't find the reset button they make it just hard enough that the lay person has to pay $50 to have somebody come over to their house use like the

special instrument for it and then reset it that way but yeah let's get into a little bit of today's topic before we jump into the interview. It's biohacking. We're going to be talking about CRISPR, which is fascinating. I've done a little bit of research. Real quick, real quick, real quick, real quick. Got to do this. RIP to DMX, dog.

True. Childhood, hero. I was one of the kids. Like, when his album first came out, I was on it first. And when I seen other people had, I was mad. I was that kid. I was like, you don't know nothing about DMX. But DMX is a legend.

RIP had to get that out there. Yeah, good point. And he was, it's like him and Vince Wilfork are the two guys that make wearing overalls with no undershirt look cool. Nobody else in the world can do that, but those two guys. Shout out with the homie. Quick story, DMX is from Yonkers, and he performed the police fight the firefighters for charity, a boxing match in the gym I trained out of. DMX performed at this, like, tiny charity event. and it was awesome.

It was literally, like, so stick. So all weekend, just bumping. I would argue the greatest, um, rap entertainer, like performer of all time. Like, his shows are amazing. His energy is amazing. I think he's one of the, he's the only artists, rap artists. I can't, I can't speak to all artists. I think he's the only rap artists to have two number one albums and one year.

That's crazy. Yeah. No one, no one any genre has done that sense back. So he's, he's a man. He was a great actor. Like, just the amazing, amazing, I mean, he, he had his demons for show, but he was, he was a great, he was a great one. The one thing I had trouble with since his passing was like coming up with a comparison for him. The only people I can compare him to are like Ray Lewis and Ed Reed.

Like, when I think DMX, I think hard hits, I think, like, he, I feel like he had the anthems for so many highlight reels of defensive backs in the early 2000s. Yep. he had the best hype music like locker room hype music like everyone got everyone got hyped to that it was him and then let the bodies hit the floor those were the only two choices that you could make when you were putting together a youtube highlight reel those were those were the those were suburban stuff man i saw arian's highlight reel uh NFL throwback tweeted out your highlight reel from like 2012 2013 on uh on Friday what was the music I think it was just the the actual call of the game okay I was I was I hope the whole but wasn't bodies in the floor. It was not. It was disturbed down with the sickness, even better. Matter of fact, I want to ask this guy,

Josiah, when we get him on, I want to be like, hey, if you have a player that's on your fantasy team and he's got a hamstring injury, can you be like, I want to give that guy my hamstring to biohacking? And maybe that's a way

might be able to get you off the IR one of these days, Aaron. I'm already off the aisle. So I think... Back on that, motherfucker, maybe. I think we should start to just like, differentiate CRISPR from biohacking. So biohacking is sort of just like, you know, hacking your own body and making, you know, decisions that aren't necessarily

100% medical science in order to enhance your brain, your body, or, you know, like anything you're trying to do. So, for example, you know, this has nothing to do with CRISPR, but like, you know, taking supplements, like, to work. out into like gain lean muscle mask is technically biohacking. Okay. So like for example, you know, like if you take amino acids or certain supplements to help like, you know, make you more vascular when you work out, that is all technically

biohacking. What about technically? Straight up drinking water. Is that biohacking? Is getting eight hours of sleep a night? Is that like where is the line drawn between things that we do to improve our health? and where biohacking comes in. Is it just like things that are a little bit abnormal

or out of the ordinary at that point, it's biohacking? And I was going to ask that, right? And so it really gets into a philosophical question, right? And this is why I have had this conversation with people plenty of times before, they're like, oh, it's not natural. I'm like, what does that even mean? What does it even mean? Like, if it's not like, I guess the technical definition,

if it's not like, if humans didn't manipulate it in some way of fashion, I'm like, okay, if that's, the case then are beaver dams natural yeah they're natural so why why is the manipulation of sticks in their environment natural but when we manipulate our environment that's not natural i don't understand it hmm i don't know billy don't turn to that angle when you turn at that angle your nose looks you're doing the nose thing again avery whatever you don't clip that don't clip that and zoom in on it but yeah i mean that's that's actually a good question like beavers all they know is how to build dams like all like if you get down to humans basic nature all we really know how to do is eat

sleep drink and fuck that's about it so like anything that falls outside of those purviews is that does that become biohacking so i don't know bill you you're the one that's done the most research on this like where would you say the line is drawn basically it's sort of like you know it's honestly the only definition is sort of the ethic of of like, you know, DIY, basically, like you're taking your health, your body into your own hands. It's like, you know, you're working on your car. Like, you know, you install things. You put modifications on your truck engine or whatnot. You jack up your truck. Like, like, don't sort of, you know, self sort of reliance is sort of the basis of biohacking. So, yeah. Cross.

They're biohackers. That's more like exercise. you would say but like it's more of you know taking so basically i like to take theanine with caffeine so like if you mix uh l theanine which is an amino acid with caffeine it has a neotropic effect and it enhances your cognitive function there's evidence and you know helps you focus and like you know do work and like homework and stuff and those sort of little things that people are doing have become this whole culture and you know steroid culture is biohacking you know you know people trying to enhance their bodies as biohacking but i find the stuff that people are doing for their brains is like so cool because you know they're trying to fit like i think we can all agree

that you know mental health has definitely come to the forefront of our culture recently because we use our brains so much more um than previous generations just every day we use our brain more than our bodies nowadays and you know our sedentary lifestyle but um with that you're seeing leaps and bounds, you know, like microdosing mushrooms for, you know, depression, anxiety is biohacking. But it's just since it's, you know, using yourself as a laboratory is just fascinating to me. And, you know, this is where CRISPR comes in.

Aproposite about where. Chris was going to lead us. I'll let you, I'll let you, my stepfather's a PhD geneticist, right? And so we've had these conversations with him for years. Like, that's what he did for years. That was his profession. He actually, Tyson Chicken, I said this in the pre-show, but Tyson Chicken, that company, he actually genetically engineered the first makeup of those chickens, that batch of chickens that they used.

And so he got like a residual check every single month for decades. Like, he's like, he's the man. Quick question, was that edited genes or was it selective breeding for the check? Selective breeding. Okay. Okay. So, yeah, I've definitely heard that turkeys, they can't naturally breed anymore because we bred them to a point where their breasts are too big, where they physically, like, can't mount another turkey. So every turkey that you eat is a product of a guy.

And you can hear a great explanation from this from Mike Roe when he came on part of. might take and talked about jacking off a turkey and how that's a job and the turkey basically skeets into its own butt and then that's how you get an egg it's it's actually it's disgusting but it's really interesting to hear so you're telling me arian that your your stepdad has chickens and syndication where he just like sits at home and every day he gets royalties of birds yeah man it's wow he's like this this is the fascinating shit right and why i'm i'm like so interested in everything, right? It's because one day I was having a conversation with him.

And I was like, yo, because he like understands genome, the genome, like DNA and sequence. He understands that shit on a level I'll never understand it, right? That's what he did for a living. And so to me, in my eyes, it's like you kind of get a peek behind the window of life. Like you kind of understand how life works on a different level than the average of being. So I asked him when I was like, what is it like kind of like seeing behind the curtains? And he's like, he said the most fascinating shit ever to me. He said, you know what man?

He said, all I know is I know a whole lot about a very little. And I was like, that is fucking profound, dog. And like, that kind of was the catalyst into why I'm so interested in all the different sciences and everything because it's like, you just sit and, you know, watch Netflix all the day and just fucking, I don't waste a waiter. There's brilliant people doing brilliant shit all day every day. And like, you have access to it. So like, go fucking look for it. Yeah, I like that. If you find a lane and you dominate that lane, it's kind of a recipe.

for success like billy and frogs area in football and being inquisitive collie and hiccups like get your brand straight that's that's the best idea that you can be given yeah brand up dog brand up we're going to get deep into frogs later oh i'm sure you will you know trust me no seriously because this guy breeds frogs too you mean after the podcast is over no this is how i got put a toad josiah does experiments on frogs and it's fascinating. But now let's get down to what CRISPR is. All right. Okay.

Before we get into that, so I just want to say like, I'm typically okay, generally speaking, with the idea of somebody wants to perform like an experiment on themselves. They're aware of the risks and they've done some studying. I don't have a problem with that. But when we start to get into CRISPR stuff and what we'll talk about later, there are implications where you're modifying things that could get passed on. to future generations, and that opens up a whole new can of worms that we can't even begin to figure out the ramifications of.

So I'm sure we'll talk to Josiah about this when he gets on a little bit. But the difference I see between, like, biohacking is one thing where you can, you know, figure out different ways to kind of take shortcuts. That's why they call it hacking, right? And then CRISPR is actually talking about fucking with the building blocks of life and the building blocks of your own body and your reproductive genes to a certain extent. And that's where, I mean, there are awesome implications for it, but then you get into the Jurassic Park side of things too. But yeah, so that's a, it's a sub level, I think, of biohacking because there are things that you can do with CRISPR that people have already done where it changes your makeup from day to day, not necessarily passing it along.

And to a certain extent, I think that that's okay if you have a good understanding of what you're doing. The problem is if you're getting all of your information from the bodybuilding.com forums, I know it's a great place to go. maybe the single most important collection of literature on earth. But if you don't have a full picture of what you're getting into, it can be pretty dangerous. So this is my disclaimer saying, don't do it just because Billy tells you to do it. Having Billy in your life is already enough of a biohack where just his presence influences you to do dangerous stuff.

So just make sure that you don't take everything that Billy says 100% certain. Just look at it like a fascinating conversation. but Billy, go off. Don't do SARMs, kids. They're really bad for your brain. Biobiling form reference. So CRISPR, CRISPR is clustered, regularly interspaced, short palindromic repeats. That is the acronym.

So how it works, and this is actually sort of very relevant nowadays, but to kind of describe how it works, you have to describe how viruses work, because what people don't realize, is that when a virus gets into your body, it hijacks your cells by injecting its RNA into the nucleus of the cell and causes the cell to start producing more viruses. So, like, for example, a herpy, right? A herpy is just a bunch of exploded cells. Just one herpy. Viral load, yeah.

Like, that's what it is. So how these viruses do it is they hijack the DNA of cells. So what scientists have realized is that if viruses can go inside cells and hijack DNA, what if they used the viruses, you know, hijacking skills to put in not their DNA to make more viruses, but to change the DNA within the cells to maybe produce more of these cells that are similar or, you know, change. Yeah, to that point.

So that's how vaccines work, right? Vaccines is it'll get a copy of what that virus is and it like boost your, or it alerts your immune system to recognize what that virus is. That way it becomes immune to it. Right now we got to tread. carefully with that sort of stuff because some vaccines are just dead virus, whereas the new,

right, the new MRNA vaccines that are coming out. We got to tread very lightly here because I don't want. You're just, you're just explaining how viruses work and how we have used that information to combat it. I mean, we're not, we're not, we're not going to. Yeah. So I think the idea behind the CRISPR research is that what you're, what you're doing is you're using the virus's playbook. You're learning from a virus and you're saying, okay, if a virus can make

your cells produce viruses, then we can inject something else in there that will make your cells take on our plan and your cells will start to replicate whatever it is we put into them, right, Billy? Exactly. And I really want to. Kind of, kind of real quick. So this was a point that my stepdad like was telling me about. So it's like, so what it does is like, so like, so like, They'll take Cas9, which is a protein, right? They'll take Cas9 protein, and then they'll take a guiding RNA, right? And so they'll combine those two. And then for whatever reason, Cas9 protein can seek out whatever it is that you want it to,

and it cuts the DNA, right? And the guiding RNA is what you use to replace that sequence with. And so it's fascinating as fuck how we can literally pinpoint what we want to change and how we want to change it. And that is like the vehicle to do so, which is the cast nine protein and the guiding RNA. Reading about all the experiments that have been done and, you know, how some of this is, you know, going to be able to cure cancer because like it's so fascinating. But one thing I wanted to look at and to sort of explain how. it works um myostatin is a compound that your body releases to prevent uh your body from creating too much muscle it's like an off switch for your muscle growth you might have um

but uh there's dogs and cows breeds that have been selectively bred to have less myostatin at the time They didn't know that's why they were more muscular, but they just chose the most jacked animals and bred them with other jacked animals and created like Belgian blue cattle or bully whippets, which if you've seen those pictures of that like super jacked dog, that's a dog with no myostatin and even occurs in humans. There's this one German baby that was born that's like absolutely jacked.

And everyone's like, what the hell is going on? that's that's but yeah that's that's an important point but it's like I don't think about this shit is how fascinating it is though like because I don't I know I'm curious to see what Big T thinks about this because like the the dude that was ahead of the human genome project which was like a decade plus long trek to try to figure out our entire genomes right and we still don't know everything but we have a pretty good idea So he was, he is Christian, right? And so a big debate amongst like fundamentalist Christians is a lot of people don't think evolution happened.

And he said, he's the head of the genome project. And he was like, if there was no fossil evidence, if there was no other evidence of any kind of evolution ever, all the evidence that you need is in our DNA. You can, it's right there. Everything that we are is DNA. Everything that we can be is DNA. that's why we're say that's why they say like you're really closely related to a banana you're really closely related to chimps you're really closely related to everything that is living because we all share the same building blocks of life which is DNA so billy can you walk us through

real quick like how how this CRISPR project is it called a CRISPR project is that what it was called at beginning like we called it the human genome project because I feel like for years and years all scientists we're talking about was figuring out out the damn genome, like figuring out exactly how that fit together. And then there was one scientists, or actually like a couple scientists that got together and they were focusing on RNA instead. And they're like, we think that this might be the key. And then it's just the last couple of years where I guess a lot of the focus has shifted over to the RNA stuff. Because the, so basically the genome project was as a separate project in its own right,

where they were just basically trying to figure out the total code for human DNA and basically just map out the genome and sort of like, you know, all of our DNA is, you know, cytosine, guanine, adenosine. I think I might be butchering this, but it's four basic compounds. BTGA. Yeah, exactly. And it's just the human genome is just a combination of thousands of thousands of, you know, those all in different orders.

And that's what genes are. So it's literally like, you know, people talk about, I don't want to talk about the simulation theory, but it's literally like code like in our bodies. And basically what CRISPR does is it chops up that code and turns off certain genes or turns off on genes that you want by using this, you know, sort of viral, um, editing, basically. And so what we've gotten is, you know, we're doing research with these, um, I need to ask Josiah about this. I hope I'm pronouncing his name, right? But I think the new vaccines, the new MR&A vaccines are actually a product of CRISPR.

And I'm not totally, don't quote me on that. But the testing, you know, there is a huge amount of ethical dilemmas when dealing with this because we want to use this as a medicine to help people. But to do that, we have to test CRISPR on people at some. point before it becomes um you know a good treatment so you know basically do you have all these you have basic um experiments where they take stuff like mice and they inject them with these myostatin inhibitors so you just have a bunch of jacked mice who like you know have uh two times the muscle mass as a regular mouse um and you know they've started to do it to uh AIDS patients who are

terminally they have AIDS so they inject them with CRISPR technology for them to some people are immune to HIV and AIDS they like have a protein that allows them to you know fight the virus better than other people and basically to try to turn that gene on and people who are terminally ill they were testing on them and they've seen a lot of results in the viral load and the people went down I like how Billy's basic tenets for like the usefulness and what a giant impact the the CRISPR studies and MRI research is going to have on on the world moving forward is like it's going to save billions of lives and it's going to make animals strong as fuck you're going to see the most

swole mice like some some you're going to see like big ass lions that are capable is that a concern of yours billy that at some point the animals are going to become too strong because your mind goes immediately to Jurassic Park right when you start talking about all this right exactly that is one of One of the ethical concerns is like you could, when you get this deep into it and you start analyzing the code for stuff, you could figure out something that actually does turn a frog into a T-Rax. Well, the myostatin, basically when you do turn, like the body does stuff for certain reasons.

And when you start messing around with different genes, you see the reactionary feedback. So, for example, all the animals that have myostatin inhibitors naturally or CRISPR applied all ended up with heart problems because basically there was too much muscles for their heart to support and they had respiratory problems because they're so heavy like myostatin definitely has a role and that's why you shouldn't really uh you know for example like you know if you have all that unnatural muscle mass it makes it becomes nonfunctional and you end up you know taking a dive in 10 seconds because you just can't handle all the muscle you put on right you can't you can't survive somebody that gets into war mode against you?

So, so the, so Christopher has been shown to be able to do what it was created to do, change genes, turn on genes, turn off genes, and help try to treat serious, you know, diseases that we haven't found tears for yet. But what has happened is, you know, you have this ethical dilemma. So recently there was the, in 2018, there was the Hezangku affair, which is a doctor in China who used CRISPR technology on two twins in the womb in order to, um, they, okay, so the mother and father were both HIV positive. And in the, they wanted to conceive. So, The doctor rounded up of several different parents who were both HIV positive, and they're like, we can't have a baby because our baby will have HIV. And he was like, okay, we're going to do a test so you can conceive a child that is resistant to HIV. Both the twins were born in October of 2018, and with this treatment, both tested negative for HIV. So the Chinese government actually arrested him because they basically called him, you know, Frankenstein. Like you can't just do these secret tests on people.

He only came out about the, you know, the testing and the experiment after the children were born and healthy just like, but he just went through with this without getting it passed any sort of governing body. Right. Not to get all Karen on you, though. Devil's advocate the other side. Like, I see a value in putting restrictions. Like, there's a reason why he wasn't allowed to do that. And he did it. And when it comes to HIV, especially, you, there are ways that you can make sure that your babies don't have HIV, even if you are HIV positive.

So what he was doing was he was doing a different way for the sake of experimentation on a set of twins to see if this technology could work. And it looks like it worked, but we don't know what's going to happen, like down the line because he did mess with these kids. and they had, you know, as far as ethical concerns, the babies, the fetus didn't really have a say one way or another. And so I can understand why there's, there are punishments if a doctor does do something like that because it's dangerous and it's fucked up. If like the kids end up with some sort of disease down the line and they're like, hey, I, yeah, I'm a product of what my parents chose to do before I was even born. I understand that. I also think that there's like future implications about, I'll put it this way. Sometimes things that suck in the moment for an individual end up being a benefit to the human race in the long run.

So an example of that is sickle cell. So sickle cell is, it's, I don't know exactly how to describe it, but it's a disorder where it makes it difficult for certain things to bind on to other things inside your system. It affects a high proportion of African Americans because it was, was actually a genetic asset in sub-Saharan Africa. So, you know, thousands and thousand, 100,000 years, however long ago it was, it made it more resistant for malaria to bind onto yourselves if you had the sickle cell trait. And so it ended up being passed along because it was an evolutionary advantage. Now, right now, it's not really an evolutionary advantage. In fact, like a lot of people have to struggle with it and they deal with it and it's really

shitty for a lot of people. But that's an example, like it could go the other way as well. There might be something that's not desirable, as we would think, you know, what is desirable, what's not today that will be passed along and through evolution 10,000, 20,000 years from now, that will actually be an asset to the human race to have that in their system. So when we're kind of playing God and messing around with things that can be passed on to the next generation, generations after that, that to me is where it becomes, I don't know, like, where the line is drawn but it for lack of a better term it's fucking spooky to do that you know like it it blows your mind it makes you feel like you're doing something that you shouldn't necessarily

be doing to the human race so let me play devil's that okay go ahead just to correct you real quick so if you have both if both your parents have the sickle cell gene and you have a double recessive sickle cell then you have sickle cell and it's bad but if you only have one of the genes then you're resistant to malaria so that so if it was like heterozygous versus homozygous it's so it's not if you have sick or cell you're immune to malaria right the trait i'm saying like the trait can be an asset and you're right it's been it's been years since i read up on that but it's kind of the same principle yeah i think his point was just that uh it was an evolutionary

um combatant to a a a uh a earth earth right a a um I don't know is it a disease I'm don't even call it is it a disease is it's a genetic it's a trait that you have yeah it's where like like you know

most cells are like oval or circle and and sickle cells like they're the the when you have sickle cell those cells are moon shaped and it gets hard for um those cells to pass oxy to different parts of the body. But I'm going to play devil's advocate to you, PFT real quick. Hit me because I do see the disadvantages to, quote, unquote, playing God, right? But there's also ethical concerns that come up by not playing God.

Point case, say we say, say our scientists say 100%, we can eliminate cancer in your baby, the possibility of cancer in your baby with CRISPR. We have found out, or we found the gene. Your baby will not get cancer. Do you then say no to that? Oh, I 100% say yes. Like me talking to you man to man, if I'm thinking of like, do I want my baby to not have the risk of ever having cancer? I say yes.

But then if you like put me in a chair in a dark room with like a couple black lights for a few days and just make me think by myself and get real philosophical with it, then I start to get to the point where I'm like, you know what? it's we're playing god one it's domino effect one thing leads to another but you're absolutely right like a million percent as a person i'm like yes a hundred percent you know so so this is where again because like the the shit with crisper is the thing with it is uh you can do things like change your baby's eye color you can do things like uh you know make make them a little stronger make them a little more uh uh intelligent whatever the case may be whatever that means right um what i see This is going to be at the forefront of human debate in the next hundred years. This is going to be the most talked about and the most debated thing ever.

Because in my opinion, this is how we, and this is a little out there, but this is how we've become an intergalactic species. Like you can, you can, there's no, there's no debate that technology is the future of our culture, okay? And I don't see, uh, any kind of parting with human being somehow, some way in the future being connected with that. There's, there's just, there's just no way. And so if you, if you then can can get rid of disease, you then can get rid of, you, you then can be, uh, selective about what traits humans can or cannot have, what you're going to have is a bunch of super humans, super smart, super intelligent, super emotionally

intelligent, right? And then you have technology. We figure out a way to integrate with technology. There's just no way around it, in my opinion, that this is going to happen. I don't see any way right. Like, us not having the internet in our heads already, that's, that's old. Like, we're going to integrate with technology. We are going to, our evolution is that. That's how I see. I don't think it's wrong, honestly. It sounds like you're saying that sports are going to kick ass in like 200 years. I think they're going to be trash, actually.

Everyone's going to be all. Everyone's going to be too good. Everybody's super nice. That shit going to be horrible, bro. I was, so I was thinking about this a lot. And, you know, there's the idea that the wealthy are going to get access to this technology first. And then not only. Yeah.

Well, not only are they going to be, you know, there's going to be, financial inequality, but there's going to be, you know, able, like, you know, that's like all the rich people will be super humans. And I was thinking about this and I was like, I was, I was reading up a bunch of, a bunch of stuff, but I don't think there's a gene, one single gene that makes you smart. It makes you intelligent. And I was like, because it's a combination of a bunch of different genes. And I feel like, you know, one person.

being smart and another person being smart it's not because they have the same gene it's because of like a learned and a bunch of stuff yeah that's a philosophical question though because we still don't 100% know what intelligence is that's why I say what does that even mean because

a lot of people associated with IQ right well IQ is a certain set of tests that is directed towards a certain outcome right it doesn't necessarily denote intelligence on the full spectrum of intelligence, right? And so the very fact that we gauge intelligence by that test

is asin on. But it's a good indicator of awareness of patterns, awareness of things like that, right, which is a subset of intelligence, right? But to encompass an entirety of what intelligence is, we don't know what that means yet. But we don't know all of what's in our DNA either, right? A lot of that is a mystery. We don't understand it. So, My thing is, I don't think that it is immoral to go ahead with experimenting with this. I just don't think it is. I think it's as a natural human progression of trying to figure out how to better ourselves in every single way. And this is just, it's just like medicine, in my opinion.

Medicine in the early 1700s was wild, right? Like crazy shit. But they were doing what they knew best to do in order to keep people healthy. And to me, this is just the modern version of that. We're on the precipice of something that I feel will change humanity for forever. So going back to the intelligence thing, though, the more we become interconnected, having everybody be the exact same level of intelligence or have like this huge increase, that might actually go against what you were saying earlier,

Aaron, which is like find your lane and know the most about it. Like if you if you give somebody, if you increase their brain capacity like 50% as opposed to the nine or 10% or whatever they're using right now and have them live in like Antarctica, they're going to know everything about ice, right? They're going to be the fucking ice captains of the world. They're going to be the most like intelligent people when it comes to that one thing. But if everyone's connected and you know, you've manipulated the genes a little bit, then everyone is just going to be kind of flailing kind of maybe in the same lane maybe maybe the

world's going to be not enough for him you know well I know see in that I always say it goes it's like philosophy right because that's what that's what it is at this point but is that not the goal right it's that should be the goal of humanity is to make society be as comfortable and as happy as possible and to me that's all we all try to do right every single invention is just for comfort, right? How can I make you more comfortable? How can I make you more a little more happy than you already are?

That's all we all try to do. To me, this is just on a grander scale. I just don't say anything wrong with it. I look at it like, you know, like the Matrix. At the end of the day, it's like, you sit down, niggily be like, yo, I want to know kung fu to plug you up. Now you know kung fu.

Like, why should information be so hard to get? I think in our society now, we associate growth with pain. but it doesn't have to be. If I went through all the pain in my life, right, I'm not going to want my child to go through the same pain I went through, right? If I can ease or aid that in any way, I'm going to pass him down the gyms that I've learned

so that you don't have to walk the walk and I walked. But what about art? Because a lot of great art comes from pain, comes from struggle. Like, if everybody is, you know, optimized to the point where they don't experience as much, like back to your case and point, DMX, he was a great artist, a lot of that probably came from a page,

a place of real pain that he had early on in his life and what he went through and you can tell the difference between somebody that's being authentic with whatever art they're putting forward and somebody that's not this is drifting probably like a little far a field of talking about like RNA and shit but let me

just answer that question because that's a great point you bring up like what about art? In my opinion art is like a spectrum of emotions right? It's just an expression of a spectrum of emotions so if the goal is to eliminate all the bad shit I wouldn't even necessarily say that's the goal. I think human interaction will still have a negative aspects to it. But all of the encompassing environmental factors, we should try to do everything that we can to aid

that art. I don't think we'll ever die because humans still have emotions and we're going to express those as much as we can. At some point, we'll just have like a farm, just like a giant town of people. What's the most artistic place in the world would you say? Vermont. Vermont? Yeah, we'll have one colony in Vermont. We'll have one in Louisiana. I feel like most of American culture radiates out from Louisiana. And then one in like Los Angeles. And then we'll just treat all the people in those towns like absolute shit.

So the greatest art is going to come from all their pain. But it's for the greater good, you know? Well, you know, there is. We loki did that already, my gee. Naturally. Not Vermont, but yeah, the other two. Yeah. Vermont's so happy

They make the best ice cream That's what Vermont I don't know I said Vermont There's like the farm comment That sounds like Vermont I fucking hate it when Aryan catches me In some deep shit like that I'm like goddamn

Yeah But I think to your point You know what we're gonna have What you're describing Is the fucking Star Trek Enterprise though Just a colony of star traveling people And they just want to explore and enjoy That's it

I don't think we're going to get happier with more intelligence. Like, I think if anything, the art's going to be better. That's a great fucking movie. You know, yeah, this is what I was thinking about when we were talking about, I didn't say it before, but like intelligence, super smart people, like some people like think all the time and like have a constant inner monologue and some people don't have that voice at all. So that's what they say. That's where it comes from, that term comes from, ignorance is bliss.

Yeah, exactly. So there's like literally like, you know, some people don't understand what people say like there's like a voice that's my own voice that talks in my head and they're like there's no voice in my head. I just like they they don't conceptualize with words just feelings and it's not in they usually have better mental health. Yeah. No, it's actually a great point. Like if you can if you can stop thinking so much, some of the happiest moments in my life come when I'm not thinking at all. being dumb kicks ass like when i find myself in moments where i'm dumb as shit that is when i'm very very happy coley brings up a great point it's like the world is just going to be filled with

super depressed like 350 pound jack dudes walking around just crying all the time but like for example if you yeah if you found the gene that found that like you know that knew that there's that inner monologue that wouldn't necessarily make anyone you know you know smarter achieve greater things it might actually be a detriment a lot of like super successful people aren't actually that smart and they know that and they ended up just working outworking other people to get to where they were i'll point to two uh prime examples two president sons donald trump junior and hunter biden both those guys i guarantee you there's no intermodelogue whatsoever but they're happy as fuck those guys they don't they don't think about shit

They're just rolling around being like, hey, what's the next thing? Let's get these endorsements. Well, they're fucking biohacking. That's why. They're taking all sorts of supplements. No question. All right, we got Josiah here. Let's bring them in.

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but uh i prefer michael jordan but you know i'll take it i like yeah let's get that debate going again it's been a while spicy mj r lebron okay so i want to get into a lot of stuff with you today um right off the bat though i do have to bring up kind of the elephant in the room and this this is a recurring theme uh with billy and many people on this podcast actually uh you blocked billy on twitter and he's again like your biggest fan he's he is a josiah stan and And Billy, I don't even know. So what he did was, it was very well deserved. Yeah, Billy asked you if there was a way to genetically engineer a giant frog

because he's obsessed with frogs and he just wants to make them bigger. He sent me like 50 messages and I was like, bro, chill out. What's cool? It wasn't one message. Like every day my messages in Twitter and everything I posted up, I leave a comment like, bro, I want a genetically modified giant bullfrog. Yeah, that's him. So I was looking into your work on African clawed frogs and I think green tree frogs.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I've kept African clawed frogs. I've also kept African bullfrogs, pixie frogs. And I was thinking like if you can, you know, make an African clawed frog or one of these green tree frogs, you know, have, what was it, 1.6 times the mass of the non-test of the control group. but like can we can we not do that to like the tiny tree frog can we do that to like the five pound african bullfrog probably it's totally possible i think the thing is is that we just didn't test it on that species so it's impossible for me to know just like 100% out of the box um they just take experimentation somebody willing to go through and do the experiments and make it happen but uh well if billy impresses

you enough over the course of this interview maybe maybe you'll consider unblocking if you promise is not to in and date you would just bullfrog requests like custom bullfrog hashtag hashtag unblocked billy yeah i'll put it this way billy looks at you it's so funny that you're the bullfrog guy i remember it you know i know i was just i was just like it would it would been you know i realized at the time that i was you know i was just trying to get your attention if i realized that was probably admit it you were drunk you were just whenever you got drunk you'd be like i'm just going to drunk tweet this guy you You probably told all his friends about you.

Like, those fucking weirdo that he's talking to me about frogs, man. I think I think some other people hopped on the bag wagon and started harassing you. And it wasn't just me. I like a butt. Billy looks at you like you're the exhibit of frogs, like, pimp my frog. Like, I want to customized African claw frog. You're the guy. Well, you, your website in your e-store, right, Odin's Lab.

You sell a couple of products for. So, yeah, my company, the Odin. So we actually, we had a kit where you could genetically modify frogs. It was actually a thing. Then we realized, like, mass-producing frogs and shipping them to people and everything like that was pretty. And the thing is, the frogs live for, like, 10 or 20 years. So after people genetically modified them, they just had to keep them as a pet for the next 20 years.

Yeah. So would be pretty hefty. you know, if I could make a request, you know, maybe run it back one more time. Billy, stop. We just got past this. I just unblocked you, man. You're too thirsty right now, Billy. Let's take you back to the beginning real quick because a lot of people might not be familiar with your work.

I wasn't very familiar with your work until Billy pointed me at you. But can you just give us like a little bit of background as to what you do and kind of how you got there? Yeah, no. So I'm a PhD scientist, spent a couple of years at NASA doing genetic engineering, working specifically with CRISPR, trying to engineer organisms to help astronauts survive in space and actually terraform Mars. But NASA's actually, you know, there's so much bureaucracy and everything like that. Like nothing ever got done. And I thought there has to be a better way. So I decided to just go off and do experiments on my own. start my own company so I could do genetic engineering in my home and help other people do genetic engineering in their homes. And so the past five or six years, I've just gone on a mad

exploration of genetic engineering, both myself and animals and all types of organisms and trying to provide other people with the tools to be able to do this because I think genetic engineering is probably one of the most powerful technologies we know of. You can literally engineer like living things that grow and that's that just blows my mind is there a a small part of you hearing yourself describe like what you do and how you got there where you're like i might be a mad scientist i might be this i might be like the origin of a super villain story you know there have been times where i actually have a bad dream that maybe i'm the one who is responsible for the apocalypse or something like that

Have you ever heard of Yakub? Yakub, no. What is it? Yakub is folklore. Yakub is in a lot of these extremist groups. They believe that Yakub was a mad scientist that genetically engineered white people. What does that even mean? Is that like making them better or something?

No, he invented them. Oh, he invented white people. Yeah, that makes sense, right? Where did they come from? Because right, weren't African. like originally humans had dark skin yeah that that's the focal no white people are neanderthals that's that's what's the real that's the real true no but it is it's crazy right because it is such a power you look obviously you know we all have survived the biggest

modern pandemic and like we've seen the power that biological things can have on the world. Obviously, there's also a super big positive to that, right, with things like the vaccine to combat that. You know, you're talking about drugs that involve genetic engineering, so gene therapies and stuff. So there's also a lot of good things. But, you know, it does scare me because there's so much unknown and it is so powerful. Right. And Billy was bringing up something earlier before you jumped on. And it's a good point that at some, If we're going to advance science, at some point, there does need to be, you know, human experiments that are done. It's just, you know, medicine has proven that.

You can experiment on animals. You can do things theoretically. But at some point, there will need to be human experimentation. So what you're doing is you're actually just saying, like, let's see what we can do that isn't controlled in a laboratory. Let's see what we can do on our own. And so how do you weigh what projects you want to work on when weighing that against, like, what the risk is going to be? yeah we also have to think about like you know it's not unethical to experiment on other people but you know how many of these big pharma execs took the vaccine before the clinical trial you know or were part of the clinical trial i imagine none of them were they waited until everybody else figured out it was okay and then they took it themselves right um so part of it is just like uh i i want to test something on myself first i don't want to ever like ask somebody else to put themselves in harm's way.

Every experiment I do on myself, what people don't see is the amount of research I do beforehand and trying to figure out all the risks and everything that can happen. And sometimes it is unknown still. You know, there's a time I poop. I don't know if you guys heard about that. Yep, I didn't hear about this.

you can enlighten me, brother. There's actually a New York Times documentary on it called Gut Hack, if you want to check it out. It's really amazing, a short documentary. And it was about our bodies are filled with bacteria, and they actually contribute a lot to our health, especially our gut health. And I wanted to try to replace those bacteria in and on my body

to try to help heal gut issues. I was having. So I found a healthy donor and literally ingested feces and measured like all the bacteria in my body over a long period of time. And a lot of people said it was going to die. It was really crazy. And it's scared. The crazy thing is, is like when everybody else says you're crazy and you're the only one who thinks you're sane, it's hard to think you're saying. You know, you're like maybe I am actually crazy. Yeah. Well, the experiment worked. So yeah. I was going to ask, how are you shitting these days? Great.

You know, really, it's actually amazing since I did the experiment, like, I used to have blood in my stool and never since. And like, I also collected all the data. So I sequenced all the bacteria and stuff in my gut and everything. And it really did change. The transplant changed all the bacteria and everything like that. But I tried to do research. I tried to consult with experts I know.

field of, you know, microbiome research. There are always going to be risks, but it's kind of like the thing, you know, if you want to push stuff forward, you got to be willing to do stuff nobody else is willing to do. I have a question, brother. It's on your gut thing because I, earlier last year, I was suffering from like really bad bouts of, like, anxiety. And I went, like, I thought I was having heart problems because, like, anxiety can, like, feel like it's a heart attack, right? And he suggested to me that there's something going on in my stomach that like kind of like sends a signal to my brain. And then I kind of started doing a little bit of research about that and how like they call your gut like your second brain and how it's like directly correlated and even like can can dictate certain things.

I mean, can you shed a little light on on how the gut is connected and and what it functions is on a higher level other than just ingesting food? Yeah, you have to think about like all the food you eat. the bacteria also eat in your body eat some of that right so you're feeding them with like whatever you eat so they're going to respond to the food you put in your body and release signals that say like i need more sugar you're not eating enough sugar and they're going to signal to your brain right so on even the most minimal level they will respond to anything you put in your body so if you're not putting stuff in your body if you're really nervous or stressed out or anxious, you know, acid buildup and stuff like that. I'm sure that has an impact, right? So basically, like, anything that affects your metabolism is probably going to affect them, and they can also signal to your brain to tell it certain things. And, yeah, I'm sure it can trigger a lot of different things, right?

Now, the scientific research isn't completely solid on that stuff yet, but we definitely know that those bacteria can signal to your brain so yeah so you're kind of like conditioning the bacteria in your stomach and they in a sense kind of dictate what you crave yeah so it's like an ecosystem so you imagine like a forest right that's in your stomach all these different plants and animals and trees all these different bacteria right if you go into the forest and you know you burn down half of it it's totally going to change the ecosystem what other animals and stuff can live in there and grow and survive in there so if your diet is just you know like I don't know red bull and uh you know fast food like those are the

bacteria that are going to grow in there the ones that want that food right and there's been studies and research that shows that like things like fruits and vegetables things that have cellulose and stuff like that they actually contribute to more like healthy bacteria inside you so um you can like literally like you said condition your gut to have a certain ecosystem where it's just like where's my fast food because all i got is fast food bacteria in there you know billy you got some questions i know billy's like that he's chopping out i yeah so i could you know i have tons of questions first question is no frog stuff bro

first question is you very famously publicly injected yourself with a myostatin inhibiting could just describe yeah yeah the CRISPR oh man so you know it needs a little context so this was I think in

2017 um 2017 CRISPR was getting really popular No, CRISPR is a modern genetic engineering technique that makes it simpler and less expensive for anybody to edit the genome of almost any organism, right? And everybody was talking about it and everybody was like, yeah, this is going to cure all these people of these diseases and everything like that. But, you know, we're not going to put it in the clinic for another. you know, I think it just started to get to the clinic. I don't even know if it's actually been tested by itself in humans yet for safety.

Maybe it has this year or something like that, you know, but it's been four years since they started really hyping it. But even more years before that, it was first discovered maybe around 2012. So you're talking almost 10 years, right, from this thing that they say can cure all these diseases. And I was like, what's taking everybody so long? like why are people sitting on this thing if they say it's a cure for a disease well what i'm going to do is i'm just going to be like here when i'm going to i'm going to make a crisper drug and i'm going to inject myself with it and i'm going to show that like it's possible so like

what are we waiting for what is all the hold up and i think that's really big with medicine is that like you know you look at the coronavirus vaccine you know the The vaccine besides that, I think swine flu, besides swine flu, the earliest vaccine before that, took like four years. But it's like, so you're telling me we can do it in like a few months? A quick question on that. Are some of the new mRNA vaccines that the pharmaceutical companies are bringing up, were they made using CRISPR? No, they're not made using CRISPR, but they just synthesize the RNA. and it's a genetic modification, technically it's a genetic modification, actually.

It's the way gene therapy works. So basically what you're doing is you're putting a copy of the gene you want to function inside cells, and the cells make that gene, and then, you know, your body responds. And in this case, the gene is a part of the virus, so your immune system responds. But in normal gene therapies, it's usually a defective. So you have a defective gene. They'll put in a good copy of the gene. And then your body will make that good copy.

But it's really similar. It is actually a genetic modification, which is, you know, really interesting. All right. Before we get too far into this, Billy, you want to talk to us about a nutrition program because you're my dietitian. Look, so I've been doing a lot of research, and I've concluded that the best meal prep choice for us is trifecta. So trifecta plans all your meals.

is created by chefs and nutritionists to help people get into the best shape of their lives. Trifecta makes meal preps not suck. All our meals are backed by nutrition science and taste great, making it simple to get into the best shape of your life. So, you know, they make ketosis meals and I've been eating them. I got sent them. They're amazing. I literally, you know, the hardest thing about ketosis is knowing what's keto and what's not. With trifecta, it's all set up for you already.

And literally, you could eat a thousand of the. meals and you'll end up still losing weight because of ketosis and trifecta does a great job planning the meals out. So shop meal plans and to get 40% off meal prep with code dose, DOSE, go to trifectinutrition.com dash dose for this exclusive offer. So right now, right now where does a lot of your interests lie? Is it in things like current physical ailments like you were talking about with the fecal transplant or is it in like mental health or is it like a disease prevention or is I'm sure that they're like drug applications like recreational drug applications for this too like no I mean like honestly finding most of your

attention now there's you know I wish I could spend time helping people and curing diseases but it's like illegal and not really there's so many legal issues around it um generally the projects I choose to work on are stuff that interest me and stuff that I just think is cool um and stuff that I think is safe, you know, there's been projects I've been working on for a while that just take time. You know, we did a coronavirus vaccine, actually. I don't know if you guys heard about that. It was in the news a little bit, but it kind of got killed by, you know, most, it's one of the reasons I got kicked off of YouTube. What we did was we followed the scientific paper. They made a coronavirus vaccine for monkeys, and it worked. So we just copied the vaccine that they made.

and me and a couple other biohackers and we injected ourselves with it and ran all the same tests and everything and it seemed to work. We developed antibodies and everything, but that basically got me kicked off the internet. So yeah, I was going to ask, why did it get you kicked off the internet in your summation?

I think because, you know, they're very skeptical of vaccine misinformation and a lot of vaccine stuff going around. YouTube basically they didn't even give us more they didn't even give me a warning they just straight up deleted my account we documented everything the crazy thing was we we live streamed and documented every single part of the process so like how we created it we made the DNA sequences available we open source everything um we showed all the experiments we did we documented it you know us drawing our blood us then taking our blood and testing it for

antibody we did all live everything live so nobody could like say we were faking anything um and youtube just didn't like it i guess and they said uh you know i'm gonna be honest i think they may have took taking it off because your work was so good they didn't want other countries developing vaccines like maybe yeah because think about it i mean like i've been like looking into this but like you know having vaccines and having a developed vaccine is a huge you know global, a political thing. Like, who are you getting your vaccines from? So if there's just information how to make your own vaccine, it takes away power from a lot of people.

Yeah, a lot of these pharmaceutical companies aren't licensing their vaccines or giving them away for free the patents to other countries, which is crazy. We're in the middle of a pandemic, and they're like charging other countries to use just the patent for the vaccine. It also might have just been you had like unlicensed music in the background. You have Metallico playing as a soundtrack. Lars Ulrich. That's probably it. I imagine that. That was the problem.

Lars heard the intro to nothing else matters. And he was like, wait a second. Let's get this motherfucker offline. But I think that what you're describing and you brought it up earlier is like there's things move slowly in bureaucracies. And to a certain extent, it can be frustrating, especially if you're doing the work and you're on that like leading edge of technology. And you see what can be done with fewer restrictions. but also those guidelines and those rails are there for a purpose, right? So there's got to be some sort of happy medium where you can meet and say, okay, certain

restrictions need to be eased for for this exact reason. And that way you kind of keep those because I don't, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, I don't think that people should be injecting the monkey vaccines into themselves. Like as a general rule of thumb, that might make me controversial. I might. No, totally. No, I agree. like I cannot manufacture a vaccine at sufficient purity and quantity that I can distribute it to people

and everybody be safe, right? I just can't. I take a vaccine. People are going to get hurt. No, I appreciate it, but I just mean that like on scale, right? Yeah, we apologize. It's going to get contaminated. Stuff is going to happen. Like for me, myself, I can follow all these protocols and do everything. You know, that's why one of the big problems with the vaccine is like they have these super cold fridges for some of the vaccines so that freezers so they can like store properly and do all this stuff like there's no way a person can sell a vaccine out of their house and it can scale in any way and make sure people are safe so i agree like mass distributed medicine it needs some sort of regulation right just because we don't want people to get contaminated stuff right

that's just there should be some regulation but i think there's also this huge opportunity for people trying new stuff. And there are so many people out. I get contacted by so many people every day who are just like, hey, I have this illness, I have this disease, I want to try something. I don't care. There's so many people who are like, I'm dying,

I want to try something. I don't care what the consequences are. I'll sign any sort of waiver or disclaimer or whatever. But still, it's not legal. I could go to, I've only, already been investigated by the California Medical Board. I won. But they investigated me for practicing medicine without a license. And I purposely avoid all these things because I could go to jail for it. But like all these people are willing to try stuff. And it could push science

and medicine so far forward faster if we just let them. If you had a medical doctor who could oversee it. You know, I'm not saying like have Randall do stuff. No, medical doctors can't oversee this stuff because they'll lose their license if somebody wants to be like I'm going to try this gene therapy on myself to see if it cures me if the medical doctor participates they're going to lose their license so let's just say let's yeah go ahead let's just say let's make that to start out like I could just say medical doctors can help people try new stuff right that would advance stuff so far forward yeah so if you were to design like a perfect setup for for how to incorporate the newest technology the latest stuff that you're working on into like safe

studies what would what would a safe study look like from your end man you know i'm and when people ask this question because i'm like libertarian slash don't like the government or like structure i can tell so like i'm not the person to ask because i'm just like burn everything to the ground so i guess what i'm saying is that if if they're like minded people like you and if you were left to your own devices you would inevitably come up with some pretty amazing things you might also come up with some things that you know not everything is going to be a hit you're going to have some things that don't produce the intended results that might be dangerous to people and so it would it's a good idea to have certain guardrails in place to make sure that it's not just like everything

can't be totally open source when it comes to medicine or if you disagree with me that's fine but that's kind of the standpoint i'm coming from yeah no i agree right there needs to be some sort of regulation um but i think you know i don't think it really depends i think what's going to happen in the future is we're going to see a lot of people do medical tourism and uh just travel to countries you know i've i've gone to other countries and talked to medical doctors in other countries there's another a number of like developed countries columbia and south america you know the dominican republic in places that have infrastructure medical doctors and all these people and the countries are willing to let people come and try stuff they don't have like an

FDA and they don't have like a medical patent system right but they do they can provide standard of care in terms of you know there's a doctor there and medicine and quality and it's just finding people you can trust right like I wouldn't trust me Billy Truss. Yeah, that was the biggest red flag. Now, I got to ask, you injected yourself with gene therapy to, you know, myostatin inhibitor to create more muscle mass. Did you get gains?

Or did you get muscle mass gains? No, so like I didn't inject the goal of the injection. A lot of people assume the goal of the injection was for me to get bigger muscle. And, you know, I, you can still find the video on the internet or if you watch the documentary unnatural selection on Netflix. It's a really good documentary. And I'm like one of the main characters and they document this process. Like my goal was to just show how inexpensively you can make it and how that it was safe.

And like why weren't people doing this? I didn't get any gains, unfortunately. But I would have had to inject a lot more DNA. I would have had to, you know, maybe do multiple courses. But CRISPR is not the best. there's easier ways. So there are other gene therapies. If I just wanted to grow big muscles,

there's a gene therapy called pholostatin that they've given for people with a Becker muscular dystrophy. And it's funny because at the site of the injection, it just grows like a muscle, like this bump that's just like a muscle. It just turns in their pictures. It's crazy. So there are gene therapies.

I think that's also the future of sports. and I would be surprised if some people aren't doing gene therapies to get ahead in sports. If anybody wants to, he's got a lot of money. TB 12, contact me. Really? I got your claim, Tom. He's not joked. That's kind of a good segue to like a question that we were kind of like kicking around before you came on.

But kind of the ethics of this whole thing, right? And I think I'm a little bit of an outlier in a sense that I think, that not only is it ethical to start experimenting on this, but I think it's it's our moral responsibility to, because I think this is the future of our species and how I see and see my perfect in my head, my perfect society is like a Star Trek enterprise, right? Where they're like the, the.

Which one? The next generation or? I'm a next generation guy. I mean, I don't know about you. You're next, my guy, all right. But I envision a society where the, to me, the nonsensical day-to-day politics is out of the way. And we just focus on exploration and art. And to me, that's in the sciences. And so to me, in my head, when I think of genetic engineering, this is kind of the liaison to that.

It's the we're kind of figuring out how to hack our environment in a way that gives us the most. positive and healthy benefits going forward in exploration in this universe. Yeah, no, you know, some people always like to bring up like, you know, Hitler eugenics or stuff like that. I'm like, why is it even the conversation? And it's interesting because I was working on a project for a little while, and I never really finished it or came to fruition. And it was using this gene called tyrosanase.

And tyrosanase, basically what it does is it helps produce the precursor. to melanin so basically you could change your skin color right and some people might think oh that's crazy or weird or something like that but if you show people that like is the single gene that's responsible for something like skin color like I think it's a lot harder to be racist and stuff like that right because people are just like damn huh what am I going to blame it on you know I like I can't blame it on anything else I know it's this gene that causes the overproduction of melanin and I've seen people do it to themselves or something like that, right? And I think that's this whole thing with, genetic blackface.

Yeah, I mean, a lot of this stuff is like you're figuring out medical ways to put Instagram filters on your body. But it's like, I think the diversity would increase so much that it would be crazy. We would see so many different things. People think that it would like narrow the gene pool. down, but I don't think so. I think it would grow it and it would be way more interesting, right? Here's the thing is that like humans don't evolve that much anymore, right? Like we don't evolve and we evolve in small ways, but not really. We're probably not going to get any more

different. But now we have these tools like CRISPR, right? We can literally, we can choose the genes. No human has ever been able to do that, right? Like literally choose genes that they want. And inside their body, their child's body or something like that, you can choose that. And I think that's going to change a lot. I think it can make sports crazy. You know, I've thought a lot about it and you think about like, you know, you could have sports teams where people have been modified all crazily and maybe you could, you know, when they have like, when they have, you know, like sports for like wheelchair, basketball

and stuff like that, they have like point systems, right? if you can use both hands, if you can use one hand, how many limbs and stuff like that you can use, there's point systems of how many points each team can have on the floor at one time. And you can do that with genetically modified sports, right? Like that guy is, he's got six arms, so he's like worth five points, you know? And this person has two arms, there's worth one. You know, I think we could make.

Honestly, that's the thing I never understood about like performance enhancing drugs. I'm like, why the fuck, why would you? you not want the most enhanced athletes ever? Like when I watch sports, right, I was an ex-professional athlete, right? I am an ex-professional athlete. Like, but like now, I have no interest in doing any kind of sports. I'm done. I'm good with that. But like now when I want to watch sports, like I want to see some shit that I can't do at all. And they're not interested in doing, but I want to be entertained by it. Like I don't understand why people would be like the purity of there. There's not just thing. And like I said, like, you know, in a lot of these athletes, I bet if they went and

sequence the genome of a lot of these people, I bet you they have genetic mutations that make them, like, extra specially good at something, right? Like, don't get me wrong, watching a wide receiver that has six arms sounds pretty cool. But if you're, if you're that wide receiver, like, after you retire, then you just walk around with six arms all the time. Like, you have to admit that when you're talking about that stuff and how it's going to affect sports, you do sound a little crazy. Was I the only ones thinking that when you were talking about, like, the scoring system? I'm a thousand percent with them.

I'm a thousand percent with them, because I was like, I'm not the first person to call me crazy, so I'm cool. I think, I think, I think of sports. Like, I mean, if you look at, like, when basketball was invented, right? And, like, the old school footage of, like, Bob Cooley coming down, like, he's backing somebody down at half court and shit, like, this shit, whack. The evolution of sports is going to be the evolution of the rules of the sports. It's going to be the evolution of the players of the sports.

If nothing we ever learned of anything about humans is we evolve. And like the evolution of sports. Things change. If you put Kyrie back then, they'd burn him at the stake because they were assuming he was a witch. No question. I would be very excited to see, though, like the takes that people would have about, like, back in my day, football was tougher. Back when guys only had, they only had two legs. The winty.

Yeah, exactly. Like, guys trying to, like, justify it. They only had normal genes. Yeah. They were in sports, it was better. Moosers. They have all these genetic enhancements. Yeah, you could not compete against a quarterback with three heads.

Like, it's just at the end of the air as a fact. Like, the way you're talking about this, it's making it sound like everyone will have access to that. And I know that's a goal of yours, but that's probably not the reality, right? I mean, with everything, it's not the reality, unfortunately, right? But I think, like you said, One of my goals is to make this technology available to everybody. It doesn't matter, you know, kind of whatever you do, wealthy people are going to always co-opt everything and make it theirs first. And that's hard.

Maybe not. Maybe you can start a big enough movement in biohacking where people start genetic. And you know what? Like it's crazy because if you think about all the people who've been genetically modified basically outside. of medical environments have all been biohackers and people like that and so they're really pushing the boundaries of like non-medical enhancement so maybe they will be the first ones and cause it to grow all the non-medical enhancement stuff and it will be really accessible what would you What would you consider to be the biggest success that the biohacking community has had?

The biggest success in terms of like experiments? Yeah. What's the experiment that you've done that has the highest benefit? What's the thing that you can like point to and be like, here's why biohacking is good? The highest benefit. Yeah. You know, you can think about it. I like to think about it in terms of like cool, but, you know, benefit also.

like obviously you know a lot of the experiments I did so um start off with like the gut hack one it was interesting because at the time everybody said like this is such an unscientific experiment when I replaced the bacteria in my gut and like nobody will care about it and it's not scientific and no joke I'm not even joking about this I was on Facebook and I saw this ad for this biotech company and my face pops up. a huge biotech company. Novo noroidsk. And it said that like Josiah's experiment,

transplanting bacteria in his gut was like, you know, an inspiration for us to work on all these medical stuff. And I was like, number one, where's my money? Where should you get permission to use me in this ad? But number two, I was like, wow, you know, this is actually affecting a lot of stuff. I think a lot of times the repercussions are down the line with this, you know, coronavirus vaccine thing. You know, right now it's kind of being buried on the Internet and stuff like that, though it was extremely well documented.

I think like 10 or 15 years from now, people are going to be like, holy shit, you know, like we created, we synthesized, you know, had a company manufacturer of the vaccine and everything for us and did the experiment and had it done. done it. You know, I had a vaccine before anybody, right? Like, we're talking August or something like that. Like, Jesus. I got like, I got like free validation for parking sometimes. Wait, wait, but you're talking about the vaccine you made, right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't, the problem is the reason nobody knows is because I didn't make one of those cards that I could take a picture of and hold on social media. Oh yeah. Yeah, I got one of those. It sounds like nobody knows about it. I got one of those. I haven't talked about it, um, except. except like on every podcast I've been on,

but I've only talked about how I won't talk about it to get the clout. But I love the vaccine cloud chasing. It's one of my favorite things. And you know what? If it makes people get more vaccines, great, good. Yeah. You know, you're not against vaccines at all.

I had my first, though. Just decide. Just a couple questions. How is... Hold on, bro. What a fucking flex. I had my vaccine first because I made it. That's fire, though.

That's what I'm saying, though, right? Like, you know, there's so many cool things that we're doing and working on here are the people behind me that you see working, you know, part of the Oat and my company, you know, there's so many cool things that we're working on all the time and making and doing, like, the impact is huge. And it's just either people don't see it or don't recognize it or don't understand it yet. But like, we are literally training a generation of science. People are doing science in their homes. And we also sell the schools and universities and stuff like that. We are trying to train the next generation of genetic engineers. So it is a thing that

we can't engineer ourselves. Wow. Well, just a quick question. How is your health? Like, you've done all these things yourself. Do you feel like you've improved your body for the better? Yeah, I think so. But like my health, oh gosh, you know, that's something that I always fight against.

And it's also hard, like, experimenting on yourself. Because, you know, like taking a vaccine, even just taking the vaccine that you didn't make yourself as hard on the body. and then you imagine like the one you did make and you're drawing your blood like all the time and stabbing yourself with needles and all this stuff and it's just like each experiment takes a bit out of you know it's it's hard in the body um so usually now it's it's got to be something that I'm really inspired by um but uh my health is good but yeah self experimenting is a bitch and I yeah I don't like to do it I do like to do it I do like the concept of a farm to table like a bespoke vaccine for everybody yeah tell me about your personal preferences when it comes to vaccines yeah bill you had another question uh just wondering what experiment do you feel was you know your favorite or you got the most utility and benefit out of doing like hacking yourself well my you know my favorite experiment actually was one of the first experiments I did and I actually built a musical instrument that used like genetically engineered

protein nanotechnology to play music and it was crazy because I don't play music I never built a musical instrument or knew how to or even really knew what like you know notes and all this other stuff for but I had this idea in my head. I was working with this technology in graduate school, and I was like, I get to experience this myself using this big, fancy pieces of equipment. But like, I want other people to experience it because I think it's really cool and beautiful and unique. But like, how can I get other people to experience it when they can't see it? It's so small. And I thought, well, what if I build a little device that can measure certain properties of it and turn that into music?

So this protein, it's actually a protein that when you shine light on it, it vibrates kind of like a string, except quantum mechanically. And the vibration is just like a string. It'll go big and then it'll slowly die down and it'll return to a resting state. So what I figured out was that if I shine light on it and measure it, I could turn that vibration into a musical note and everything like that and have a musical instrument. And it was just, it blew my mind that I could take an idea in my head that was, didn't exist in the world, was impossible, I thought, and make it reality. And to this day, it's, you know, one of my favorite things that I've ever done. Yeah. I got a question about that.

What was it about the light that made it react to it? Like, was there? So it actually, it has this molecule in it that, was able to absorb the photon, right, and convert that into, like, electronic energy. This specific molecule is called a flavon molecule. Sometimes it's in, like, some vitamins and stuff, flavononucleotide or something like that.

FMN, you might see it as. You know, I think some people say they're, like, oxygen radical scavengers or some other stuff. but yeah it's just it had the correct structure in the molecule that it could absorb this life so here's so listening to you like a lot of what you say goes over everybody's head right and we just kind of nod along like yeah that makes sense but so you have a certain depth of knowledge that a lot of us will never have so can you give us a guideline like all right when I read the nutritional facts on the back of a food source,

what am I looking at it? Is that something that you even do? No, you know, like I don't do stuff like that. You know, science to me is more like, I try to take it too seriously. To me, it's more like something that is beautiful. It's like sports, you know? like we watch it because we see people do stuff beautiful we do it because we want to also do these amazing things right we want to do something there's nothing like you know when you're playing

a sport and you do something crazy you know it's just like it feels so good it feels so good inside you and science is the same way to me it's more like something that I appreciate the beauty of then like I go home and I watch science documentaries and read science textbooks like I don't I'm not I'm not like that like I don't care could you I watch the talented but lazy science edition do you know do you know what the clutch gene is uh people who are able to perform in the clutch I imagine exactly yeah could you isolate the clutch gene you know I don't know if it's I imagine you could try um if it's possible I may Imagine it has something to do with the way your body regulates hormones and stuff like that, right?

Yeah. Like when you're stressed. Yeah. Keeps your heart rate down. Keeps you cool. It keeps you focused in the moment when other people would experience like severe anxiety. If you could figure out of way. If you want to give it to, your favorite team.

Just everyone. Yeah. Literally everybody. I think I think all kickers in the NFL should be inject. Cody Parkie should have the clutch gene. I actually so I have me. Call me, Cody. I have an email from.

from a listener here, I'm not going to say his name, but it's a listener macrodosing, says, hey, I'm 5'8, I tell people I'm 5'9, but I'm really 5'8 foot 8, I could probably dunk if I was six feet tall. I've got good leaping ability. Is there some sort of growth biohacking that we have access to at this point where you can increase my, I mean, the reader's height? you know people say stuff like this i'm just like uh you know do some pushups and sit-ups you know remember those uh shoes that they used to sell a lot of in the 90s where uh they were just like in the front of they had like a pad in the front of your feet i have those yeah they make you they have so many jokes about people who wore them shits man the jump so yeah i've got those

they're supposed to make your calves stronger that's biohacking that's o g biohacking before O.G. No, here's the crazy thing is that there are, you know, certain things. You know, it's telling you about this fall of statin thing that you might be able to inject in your cap muscles, you know, there are a bunch of gene therapies that they've tried for medical reasons that have direct application. You know, like, EPO is a gene, right? Like, you can literally inject people with a gene therapy for EPO and make them perform

better. Or even crazier, there's this gene that they've studied for diabetes to increase the blood flow to legs. It's called VEGF, VEGF, and you could increase the vascularization of tissue so that, like, people don't, their muscles don't get tired as fast. So there are a lot of things that people could actually try. The thing is, is that, like, it's just, it's not allowed and it's not available. It's hard, right? Because there are very few people have the knowledge and skills to actually produce these things. And then there are very few people who are willing to pay the money to actually have it done on themselves. So right now, there's, like,

like extremely limited market. I do like how I was like, hey, I just want to grow four inches and you're like, that is insane, just do push-ups. And then you were talking about like a guy with no legs and five arms playing water polo as like the future of sports. And that's, that's normal. That's something that we can do. Let's stay on earth here.

So when it comes to like the future of athletes maybe injecting themselves with things like this, what's the danger? Like if you, let's say somebody is a shitty scientist. They make, I don't even know how to explain. They make a bad batch of DNA. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And they inject it into themselves. What happens if you inject yourself with the wrong thing?

I mean, people have died from contaminated gene therapies, like even in clinical trials. That's the big thing is that, you know, it's sterile. It's not contaminated and all this stuff. So people need to know how to handle it properly. It needs to be handled in the proper environment. It needs to be stored in the proper environment. proper environment and stuff like that. But otherwise, gene therapies are relatively safe.

Like, in the history of gene therapies that people have received, most of the deaths have been because of contamination, or they're just trying to use so much gene therapy. So in some of these muscular dystrophy type stuff, where it affects the whole body, all the muscles in the body, they're just trying to dove people up with as much of these gene therapies as they can to help affect all the muscles in the body. And sometimes it causes liver toxicity and stuff like that. But actual gene therapies killing people, I don't know if there's any people who've been directly killed by the outcomes of a gene therapy. It's more like the secondary effects. Okay. I have a question, man. Earlier in the pot, PFT alluded to something

like this. And I'm interested to get your take on it. So like, malaria, Right. Malaria, human beings' reaction to malaria was sickle cell, right? It protected people from getting it. So conversely, if we, let's say we cure some of these ailments, right? Do you foresee any issues with something gone haywire because we cured it? Like, you know, the ecosystem, like an example of like if you take a certain species out, you know, like there's too many predators or whatever the case may be. Do you see any kind of that? That's a really interesting thought. And I think those things are just super hard to predict is the problem, right? You don't know what the outcomes of some of this stuff is. But I think like eradicating disease, right?

At least you're eradicating the disease. And then if something else comes up, at least we can try to figure out how to overcome that. Like everything evolves constantly, right? We're constantly in a battle with virus. viruses and bacteria and animals and plants and everything, we're all evolving together in this ecosystem. And so, like, of course things are going to evolve when humans evolve, when humans change. It's just part of the process. I agree. Second part was not, it's Lucy related. Do you think, and if you do, to what extent, are we dropping the ball on like cancer research or just like

pulling the trigger on that? 100%. I think we are dropping the ball 100%. You know, there's so many different things. I recently, I mean, years ago, people used to email me about cancer all the time, and I got involved with a bunch of people who had cancer. We even created a DIY guide for people who have lung cancer on how they could manufacture this drug, this super cutting edge drug, have companies manufactured for them, and then try it on themselves. else. Since then, I've been in contact with a bunch of people who have had drugs manufactured, taking stuff. This is from scientific research papers also. They're not just like making stuff up out of thin air. They see a scientific research paper that says, like, we tried this drug

and it seemed to have an effect. And they're like, all right, can I get the drug from the drug company? The drug company says no. And they say, all right, fuck it. I'm going to go to some manufacturing company just ask them to make it for me and pay them like 10 grand um and so like there are so many things to try and there's so many people who are trying different things out there because like if you get lung cancer you know uh there's like one or two things you know if uh maybe katruda helps this you know checkpoint inhibitor but otherwise like your prognosis is terrible like 95% of people die within five years or something right and like what are you supposed to do just sit there and die and that's what society want

that's what the medical system and the regulatory system wants just you to sit there and die instead of just being like you can try stuff you can let's try all these drugs on you and see what works or just like something so you got a magic wand the magic jessia one you can fix the medical system to where you feel is the most beneficial what do you do yeah i make it so that people can try like it people can just like sign a waiver something to be like I want to try this thing let's try this thing right um I think it would have a huge impact and also take the financial incentive out of drugs right the reason a lot of these drug drug companies won't let people try these cutting edge drugs because if they die

their stock price is going to plummet right if they have a side effect the stock price is going to plummet so like they you know only want people to try drugs people don't understand like clinical trials, they're not just like, oh, you have this disease, you can come to clinical trial. No, nowadays, they screen you for everything. They want the exact person who they think is going to benefit from this drug so it gets proved by the FDA, right? So, like, it's limited. It's limited sometimes in its use and its scope, right? We don't even have to talk about, like, different races and ethnicities trying, you know, drug being tested on them because it's just like it's not happening, Right. Like the scope of the medical system is so small and it's fully incentivized by money that it's just, we need to change that.

All right. I got two questions for you. And then I think we got to, we got to let you run. We've been we've been hogging your time this afternoon. It went on a little bit longer than we thought, Billy, unless Billy has something that you really want to bring up. Billy, is it about frogs? Yeah, I want to, I want to do the, I want to make a giant frog. Billy just wants it. What's on the record? I have a question. question for Billy. What's your plan with the giant frog? Yeah. I agree. No, seriously, this is what I would do. I would get an African bull frog, which is totally legal in the pet trade, and I'd get him huge regularly because they look like Jabba the hut. And then I would use the gene therapy that Josiah has used on other species of frogs. And he would literally probably be like, you know, like as big as like a small dog.

Yeah. Billy likes frogs. He just doesn't think that's a big enough. I would have it as a pet. It would be serious to see all that thing jumps. Like, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Do we make it happen? This is how you get to Jurassic Park. I know what it's possible.

I'll tell you what. You set up the crowd go fund me to raise the money for the gene therapy, and I'll help you make it. How much do we need? How much for the gene therapy? For enough, well, so you probably want to inject a couple frogs to try out different stuff and see what would happen. I would say you could probably do a pretty decent size experiment for like 10K.

For the pod. We going to get this done. Yeah. Do we expense this? Well, Billy, you just won $50,000 for knocking out Jose Canseco. And I know that money's burning a hole in your pocket. Yeah. How bad do you want big frogs?

I will set up this goal for me. If we get to 9,000, I'll put a K in there, bro. I'll promise that. I'll promise you. I mean, they said, you know, they said, you know, don't spend your money. I think stupid. but I think this would actually be great for the world. I think this is well worth it.

The thing is it's a dumber thing than anyone would have ever thought to warn you about not blowing your money on it. This is literally so smart. This is the smartest thing I could do with the money. PFT. Think about like, see, here's the thing. You'll probably take another 10K to invent like frog leash. and stuff like that, so you take it on a walk.

I would food with this thingy. Dude, I'd feed it rabbits. They already eat mice. They're so big. Oh, really? Yeah. Have you ever seen African bullfrogh? I'm sure I've seen pictures.

Picks Phileas ad purses is a Latin name. It's insane. Anyway, all right. No, no frog's talking about. Okay. I got two more questions, then we'll let you go. Do you want the hard one or do you want the fun one first? Let's end with the fun one.

Okay, well, end with fun with this. So the hard one is, I don't really see that much of a problem with people doing these experiments on themselves with an understanding of what they're getting into. Like you mentioned, terminal patients. If they're looking for any way that they can possibly extend their life or be cured, I totally get that. I get even people who are curious, like yourself. And you're like, I wonder what will happen if I give myself like one giant arm. That's, if you want to do that to yourself, I think that's cool and it'll probably lead to some cool discoveries later on down the line. Where do you draw the line? when it comes to something that could alter the offspring, a child that you might have that might inherit some of the things that you've put into your own body. Because for me, that's where the ethics come in, where it's like, that's not something that the kids signed up for. And this doesn't even have anything to do with kind of the course of humans evolving their DNA, like we talked about earlier with sickle cell. This is just like, that particular child did not have a say in what you were doing to your system because you were curious or bored one day, you know? So, like, where do you draw the line when it comes to something that might be inherited?

Yeah, you know, that's a, gosh, of course, it's a really tough question. And I don't exactly know. It's different for everybody. But for me, you know, like with kids and stuff like that, the parents already make a lot of choices for them, right? Sometimes even, you know, and, you know, you think about environment in terms of what they eat, things like that, that do affect their body, the way they grow, their education, all these different things, right, which do affect them into everything we think about the way that like a gene therapy or something could affect them.

Me personally, if gene therapy was available and reliable, I would use it on my children. Obviously, I would want my children to be as healthy as possible, right, not suffer for from illness or disease and be as capable as they can be, you know, like I'm not saying I want super children or the best children in the world who are the smartest or anything like that, but like, gosh, like I care about my kids. I want them the best for them and every single thing, right? Every single thing. If I could give the best to my children, I would want that. and I don't think this would change it. I think it's scary.

I think it's different. I don't think it's societally accepted yet, but like, I want the best for them. So I guess the best becomes a subjective conversation where some parents would say, like, I think that blue eyes are the best for my kid. And then every parent that's able to afford blue eyes for their children. Here's the thing. You know, you can already select eye color, right? You can select sex.

If you have IVF done, you can already select things like sex and sex. eye color and things like that. Seriously? Yeah. He doesn't lie, Billy. He doesn't lie. Do you really? I didn't know that. That's crazy. So this is a subset of that. I know we said it was the last question, but I just have to interview because it's just, you can answer it a simple yes or no if you want to, but I'm just fucking fascinated at what you think about this. Because when I think about free will,

I don't, I'm not a proposal. I don't really think we have free will because with what our genes are and how we have no control over the environment that we grow up in exactly the thing that you said i don't really think that we have free will i just want to know what you think about free will i agree you know we're predisposed to so many things right you know i think a big thing is like obesity drug addiction stuff like that like i think a lot of these people don't have control over that stuff you know we look at it we like to blame them and all this stuff and be like why why don't you exercise more or why don't you get off of drugs or all this stuff i think like people especially athletes or people who do stuff like where does motivation come from right

it's not like some people pull this will from inside themselves from this magical area and are like more motivated no like it's genetic right it's it comes from some from your environment but it's also genetic a lot of these things are are genetic and you are i don't want to say enslaved or imprisoned but you are by your genes right we are we are our genes control us right your actions that you take you can blame a lot of the stuff on your jeans and it's we'll do get agile free card all right but my last question is um it's one i've been thinking about for a while because uh we talk about recreational drugs on this podcast a fair amount and uh it seems to me like most of the good drugs out there uh provide just a

shitload of dopamine right right into your brain is there a drug could you actually just straight up get dopamine free base dopamine for in a vial could you put your own could you harvest your own dopamine from your own body and then inject that into yourself and then just feel great a better idea you know so like also you guys should get hamilton morris on this podcast if you have i don't know you guys know of hamilton morris is um but uh him and i have talked about this a little bit and And this is project I was interested in. You know, endorphins? Endorphins are actually a protein molecule that your body produces that gives you this

feeling of high. And they've shown that you can like take endorphins and inject them into the bloodstream and people actually get high. And you could also measure it by measuring this hormone prolactin. So you can measure the highness of people. So I started, I did like basic experiments on this like, measuring my prolactin levels and different things like that. But theoretically, you could create a gene therapy where you like inject yourself with

some DNA. And DNA, the cost to produce DNA is so insignificant, right? And it would produce this beta endorphin and it would get you high. And so you could give people this DNA and it would be undetectable. Governments couldn't stop it. It would be like the perfect, the perfect drug. Yeah. That's what you got off YouTube, bro.

but don't would would the brain become um less taught not what build up a tolerance to it i'm sure i'm sure it would eventually i you know i've never tried this completely yet i just you know did the baseline measurements and design the DNA and stuff i just haven't gotten around to like it's a tough experiment to do right right because um like you just basically got to inject your stuff with stuff and just wait for like a couple days and see what you get on. Yeah. It's taking notes in a journal. I like the idea though.

Like let's cut out the middleman here. You don't need heroin. You don't need opiates. You don't need cocaine. You don't need marijuana. Like just get to the good stuff, the pure uncut dopamine. Your body naturally produces, right? Yeah.

And like DNA, you can literally, so the way most people replicate DNA is they put it into bacteria. So there's lab strains of bacteria that you put the DNA. into and you just grow up a bunch of the bacteria and then you just break them open and extract the DNA. So you literally, you could make

this DNA with just sugar and water. Like, you could make large quantities of it with just sugar and water. I'm taking whatever drug you're making, though. Let me know. Cheap, undetectable, like, all that. Can sneak it in to any venue?

Absolutely. Let's do it. My last question. Is there anything that you take Josiah that's like a supplement or something that you truly believe the science and it like improving like your cognitive behavior your physical abilities or anything like that um cannabis or like a new traffic of some sort of the best you know it's so underappreciated but like one of the best and most well studied drugs is caffeine right and like obviously Obviously, you know, people who consume caffeine see the performance increase enhancement that it has. And it's been shown across everything, right?

Like sports, intellectual activities. Like caffeine is a really, a really great drug. But besides that, there's, I'm not really into, like, testing other chemicals and substances and stuff like that to try to improve my performance. I'm cool with where I'm at, you know, like. I like that. Yeah, you're doing well. You're doing you. It's the most powerful drug there is, is knowledge.

That's what my teachers told me. They were liars, by the way. That was total bullshit. All right, well, thank you very much for joining us. That was a really interesting conversation. Appreciate having you on Dr. Zaner. Good luck with everything. And please unblock, Billy.

He just wants to talk about frogs. I don't even know. I'll try to find how to. Oh, he'll tweet you. Well, he's blocked. So Billy, he'll get tagged a lot. What's your handle, Billy? of Billy Hot Takes

Billy Hot Takes I'll email it to the whole time I'll email it to you we'll get we'll get Billy back in your in your day-to-day timeline test no I won't bother you again all right thanks for

higher than that thank you brother right now guys thanks for having me see you that interview is brought to you by our great friends over at BetterHelp at Barstall Sports we truly love

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That was interesting. I think that guy's like 60% full of shit, 40% brilliant. That's my initial reaction. I think that motherfucker is brilliant, though. Brilliant. That's one of my favorite conversations I've had. I really enjoyed that. He's very anti-establishment, but he has so much knowledge.

Yeah, like rationally, though. He's not like, super, yeah. I think he has all these ideas and he just wants to get them all out and he just tries it all. Yeah. I think the anti-establishment probably comes to, like he said he worked at NASA and that it was just a bureaucracy that moved really slow. So I'm sure it's just out of like frustration from seeing it up close. Yep. Yep.

What did you think, Colin? I think there's a whole other conversation to be had there, like about the endocannabinoid system, like, and how that truly boosts human performance. It's something that's only been studied since 1992. Like we've merely scratched the surface of what marijuana like practically does to the human body. I forgot to ask him about this neurotransmitter like brain electromagnetic brain therapy thing that I bought on a whim on Saturday. It's one of those halos that goes around your head and it just fires electrical impulses into your brain and it's supposed to make it faster. I don't know. It sounded cool.

So I bought it. I don't, I don't think you can call that guy out for bullshit after you bought that. Yeah, I know. No, that's, that's just how high functioning my brain is right now, where I've evolved past the point of hypocrisy. Hypocrisy doesn't even, I don't bat an eye at that shit anymore. I would like to live in a world, though, where, like, you can trace, like, MVP baseball player, Jose Konseko being the reason giant frogs took over the world. like that we're not real far away from that being reality it's a lot more than we should be he has the tech he can do that because he's done it with smaller frogs i'm just bringing him like a naturally large frog

i'm so down to start to go fund me i don't know the ethics behind it wouldn't even be that hard but i think we should get it done though i really has the 10 grand yeah we don't need to be funding this erin you keep asking our listeners to fund billy's frog experiments This is on Billy's shoulders Billy will find a way to make it happen Guys I kind of put the money in a Roth IRA I can't touch it You're a liar

It went straight to Doers going No it did I Yeah I can't touch it You can just a little But then I get How bad do you want these frogs I literally threw it in like Right after

Because I didn't even want to touch the money You don't want the frogs bro We should have asked him a question From Big T What question do you think Big T Would have asked that guy have you found Jesus' DNA? Yes.

I would actually be an interesting question. His thoughts on like, because he's like when you know like that, like when you know the human body and the makeup to that extent, but then you hear folklore of so much folklore of like what a soul is. Like I would want to know his thoughts. I'm like, what do you think about when you hear a soul? Like what does that mean to you? Oh, guys, the God particle, I forgot to bring it up at the beginning of the show.

They discovered that particle? Yeah. Yeah. Every time they have a new particle, they call it the God particle. Yeah, because they can't explain it. Yeah. Well, they could, they're probably just making shit up so that they continue to get funding. That's exactly.

I think we talked about this last and that's exactly what I would do. Just be like every six months, guess what we found God again? But yeah, Billy, what is the newest God particle? I'm sure you've done more research on that than I have. They're, that, uh, electrons, protons are all influenced by some like these tiny particles that they can't really explain. These were called fat protons. I wait, let me, uh, PAT. Yeah, I still got the article pulled up because I was reading it the other day and I, it just did not click with my brain at all.

That's a tab that will live on your computer for months at a time. Like, you'll get around to it eventually. Oh, we should have a tiny particles. Random, random tab used to have pulled up. tiny particles wobble could upend the known laws of physics is this what you were talking about billy yeah and so that's just interesting and so like when i read up a little bit but um like there's like the the mass that they calculate in the universe there's more uh mass that they calculate that's out there than we can see right and so that's why they they coined it dark matter and so they they're uh They theorize that there is particles that don't interact with what we know, like light, gravity, stuff like that.

There's particles that don't interact, but has an effect on gravity. Like, it's interesting shit. I don't know if that has anything to do with it. These are called muons. I'm probably pronouncing that wrong. M-U-O-N-S. It says they are an unlikely particle to hold center stage in physics, sometimes called fat electrons. So I was wrong about that.

fat electrons that resemble the familiar elementary particles that power are batteries, lights, and computers, and whiz around the nuclei of atoms. They have a negative electrical charge and they have a property called spin, which makes them behave like tiny magnets. They are 207 times as massive as regular electrons. They're also unstable, decaying radioactively into electrons and super lightweight particles called neutrinos. in two point two millionths of a second that's wow it's quick little lightning bugs uh i'm looking

through billy's notes one last time here for the episode he sent us seven pages notes great job as always billy now six of those seven pages are literally just pictures of strong things no joke there's one page is just a strong cow uh with belgium blue another page is just a strong young child just jacked up, lifting weights. Then there's strong mice and strong dogs. Again, another strong child, child born with extreme muscle growth. And then at the end, it's talking about the Chinese scientists that performed the experiment on the twins.

So I think we covered all those bases, just girthy animals and then preventing HIV transmission. Well, I think I just want to leave us with one last thing because, you know, um, it's it's not like this is just all funning games like here in February 2016 do you sorry biologist Kathy Nyken in her team at the Francis Crick Institute wanted to better understand the role of particular gene in the earliest stage of human development so using CRISPR they deleted that gene in human embryos that have been donated for research when they analyzed the edited embryos and compared them to ones that hadn't been edited, they found

something troubling. Around half of the edited embryos contained major unintended edits. There's no sugar coding this, says Foyodor Ernov, a gene editing expert and professor of molecular and cell biology at the University of California, Berkeley. This is a restraining order for all genome editors to stay the living daylights away from embryo editing. So basically, like, you know, at the end of the day, it's not all funny games. Yeah, I mean, it's, I'm for it. Very bald-ass shit. Like, don't, I hope there's not, like, some kid who's going to go do something stupid because he's listening to this podcast.

I don't think, I don't know what, even if you were a dumb kid, how would you, like, just order your DNA set online and then, like, make a DNA in your house? Like, it's a fucking grade B rocket. If you, if you're in your closet, if you're in your garage and you over here is editing jeans, you're not a dumb kid. Yeah, it's like two kids and they're doing their science project together. One's like, let's do the volcano with it. the baking soda. You know, the kid's like, no, let's inject ourselves with molecular RNA and see how big I can make my right kneecap.

Billy, how upset were you when he didn't get any gains from that injection? Well, that's what's kind of like, you know, because basically the whole point I think was that he wanted to inject himself with CRISPR, but something that couldn't really fuck with anything too heavy but just to show it was kind of he's he there's an article saying he regrets doing it because it made people think he was like an ex a like a attention seeker and like looking for clout basically but I think he does have his heart in the right place but you know I think you know he said that in an article that was being written about his experiments he's like I don't want to seem like I'm out here trying to get publicity no

But he said he regretted doing it on a live stream. Okay. So, like people, you know. Yeah. Again, I think that he's a brilliant dude. I think obviously, like with his background education and he's, you know, performing some stuff on himself that I think some people are not crazy enough to do. But I also think that he's like, he hasn't really given a lot of thought or maybe he has and he just doesn't have a good answer for it about like the implications of what he does. So he's so fascinated in his own work that he's living kind of like day to day.

on it trying to just do cool stuff and he hasn't really thought that hard about like the ethical long-term things that are going to happen but again like i think he's a fascinating person to talk to like i feel like you know we're going to see in probably next 20 years if like he's going to have serious impacts from his time and hopefully he leaves the legacy you know that maybe the huge frogs does improve the world how he wanted to the biggest frogs big ass frogs and i will say If I get diagnosed with terminal cancer, he's going to be, like, the first person I call it. Just be like, give me the stuff that's that I can't get. So fast.

Yeah, that's up. In my opinion, if you have some sort of terminal disease like that, like, whatever you can get that you want to try, go for it. You know? Yeah. I don't think that. Yeah, it's your life. And as long as it doesn't affect, like, that's the one thing when we're talking about, like, your kids' lives and things like that. He kind of brushed that off.

I was talking about, like, injecting yourself with something that's going to be passed along to your children. He's like, well, you know, you pick. what your kids eat anyways, that's, I felt like that was kind of like a bullshit answer if like I haven't really considered the implications of that too much. But, I mean, to his, I'm going to back for him right quick. Because a lot of the times I see, like, if you see like a couple who had a weight problem, right, you'll see their kids are a little bit chunky as well. And so I think that's what he was alluding to was that a lot of the, a lot of the things that we don't deem or we kind of deem benign it's just not not important like you know we eat mcgallos is what it is

those have extremely uh dangerous effects on your kids the environment that you place them around the normalization of diet things like that and so i think he was just saying like we already do do that on a on a different scale right and i think that's valid but it doesn't really answer the question of like what's ethical to do in terms of like altering what your child's DNA what they are because you can always put your kid on a diet but you can't be like hey let me suck that DNA out of your system real quick turns out of you're arguing you can change it so it doesn't matter and so let's say let's say let's say you're a Scientologist and you and you put your child and you say this is the way and they grow up with a Scientologist and they over here stocking

people all day that's a form of what he's talking about so I think there's degrees and what your point you're not wrong but I am an advocate of let's chop these jeans up and get these super kids popping so we'll go to yeah and honestly like you know i think that's in that same vein like passing something on to your kids that is it ethical like let's say you have a genetic disorder and if you have children that child will also have the genetic disorder like this is where crisper is like a huge of like you know benefit because it could get rid of that gene from getting passed on and like improve the child's life all i know is that there's some

serious questions that people are going to have to answer and no one's going to agree on anything yeah so i by the way that's where he that's where he might be like secretly the smartest person ever is just saying like fuck it let's do all of it anyways and go pedal to the metal because we're never going to agree on how to handle this humans we're never going to agree there there are too many strong opinions about how these steps should be taken where we're just it's someone's going to hit the brakes on it pretty soon because we won't be able to to figure out a way forward and guys think about this you know who's probably doing the most of this testing the russians are probably definitely gene edited their athletes yeah and they've that because you can't test

for it the chinese the chinese they're only making they're only making hockey players though like what a waste yeah nobody cares chinese the gymnasts and chinese are crushing at diving their dive team has probably been genetically edited for years and years that's probably why they imprisoned that scientist that did the twins testing because they're like that guy we want that guy just sitting in a state run lab cranking out uh balance beam performers they they even put a curler on peds on the russian team love it curler yeah like i get these metals dog they gotta get this gold at any by any means that when it comes down to is i think he wants to he wants to have the world be like as close to a video game as possible you know and like to a certain extent

I respect me. I think I'm just over this reality in general. Like this is whack. We talked about this. You're still stuck in Avatar mode where you got done watching Avatar and you're like, fuck, why isn't the world like this? I need my dreadlock to have tentacles and I want to lock it with some shit, bro. I want to I want to fuck the forest.

No question. All right. Well, I think that probably covers most bases. I don't know. I didn't really have bases to cover today because it's just such a wild conversation to be having um yeah i like i like the direction where it went billy big frog it's from big dog all right so um that'll be it for us today we love you guys as always constructive criticism is welcome as long as you tell us that we're handsome while you're doing it next week we so we were thinking

about maybe doing data harvesting data mining online privacy that sort of thing aryan said the word Scientologist earlier, that is also that could be something that we could get into. I don't know. What do you guys think? We could, yeah. I think data sizes is like a heavy one. And like, it would be like, you know, there's some funny points.

I think we're going to do it eventually, but I think Scientology is fucking hilarious, dog. And I think we got to tackle that issue. And yeah, you know who else is a little more Scientology than people think? Tom. Mormons. Mormons believe in, like, planets and spaceship.

It's some wild. They believe some wild. Special against Tom Cruise coming on. Mm-hmm. Yeah, tweet of Tom Cruise to come on the show for sure. Oh, you know, who is the lady from, um, uh, uh, was a... Lee or Remedy. Yes.

She, like, had this whole documentary on the shit. And, like, them motherfuckers are crazy. Like, I'm talking about, like, not even, like, CIA-level type fucking with people, bro. Like, it's, wow. Good. Oh. Well, they sound like a great enemy for us to make. Yeah.

No, they make enemies real quick. So I have no problem with it. However, next Tuesday is 420. Oh, yeah. Well, then good point, Coley. That's the kind of foresight that we need. So I think we have to do what, the history of drug laws, history of marijuana. Yeah, I mean, it's a layup for that day.

Yeah, I like that history of marijuana. Good point. I like that. Yeah, we got three Chi episode. Yeah. Okay. All right. Good call, Coley.

We'll save the Scientology stuff for later. and plus yeah they're not going anywhere when we do that episode uh just for the record it's big t's episode it's his idea and he's the one who's going to be piloting big t hc no no no i'm no i'm talking about the scientology one i'm pointing oh yeah i'm just saying for the record if anybody from the church of scientology is listening it's big tea this is his thing he's got a weird axe to grind against you guys i don't know why uh so all complaints should be directed at him but yeah next week i love it next week the history of marijuana you guys.