Macrodosing: Arian Foster and PFT Commenter - FBI ft. Ben Hansen

Episode Date: February 16, 2022

On today's episode of Macrodosing the entire crew is BACK to talk about the Federal Bureau of Investigation with former FBI agent Ben Hansen. You'll hear everything from UFOs to the Men in Black. You don't want to miss it. Interview at (2:07:40). Also, a much needed update on Big T and Rico Bosco. Sit back, relax and enjoy.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/macrodosing

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That's the number 3-CHI.com. Use promo code macro-dosing, 5% off your purchase. Welcome back to another episode of macro-dosing. Whole Squad is back. We're back. I want to say thank you very much to my good friends, Big T, Avery, Mad Dog, Arian Coley for holding down the ship. Well, me and Billy were driving across the country and spending time out in L.A. with Billy's favorite TikTok stars.

You guys did a great job. By the way, we listened to some of the show when we were driving through Cincinnati and Kentucky. Billy did not. We did listen to some of it. We listened to some of it. some of the fast food discussion where we were we're we're I guess you guys were talking about Arby's and all sorts of stuff so we did tune in to some of it but then we put on another driving playlist and hit the open road but um thank you guys for

doing that it was wonderful I'm sorry that Billy lied to you on last Thursday's nanodosing I would never do that but Billy you know Billy was trying to make conversation look if I was just like anyway whatever That's, you know what? I've learned this other thing about Billy. So if he's about to tell a lie, it always starts with, there's a study that just came out. We know that.

We've learned that about Billy. But then when Billy finally gets caught in a lie that he has no more recourse to defend, his give up phrase. Wait, Billy, wait, wait, wait. His give up phrase is, anyway. And then he moves on without ever saying, without ever admitting it. Yeah. Whatever.

Yeah, or that. That works. I literally was just saying I knew. I don't know, man, Billy, you got to get something off your chest, man. You got a little, you got a little. What's that in there, man? Sometimes I just say yes to things I don't really pay attention to. That's true.

Thank you. What could go wrong. Yeah. Billy would get into a cult so easily. That is true about Billy. He'll say, yeah, sure, that sounds good. I don't know. What do I have to do?

Something from my childhood. that it's better to just say yes and, you know, move along the conversation, figure out later than it is to be like, no, because then you look bad. It's like a fake until you make it type thing. Just say, excuse me. I didn't hear you. Can you repeat that, please?

Well, you know, it's better for podcasting. To lie and not pay attention? Actually, in a weird way. Yes. Yes. Sometimes. Yes. What was the lie they caught you in in L.A.

with Jake Myers? Oh, that's a long story. Basically, Billy agreed to go tape a segment with Jake at Muscle Beach and they were going to wake up and get out of there early in the morning. And then Billy woke up, texted Jake being like last minute, hey, are you sure we still want to do this? Kind of like looking for Jake to say, no, let's just go a day. Because Muscle Beach is closed and there's only two of us.

Yeah. And so anyway, so Jake was like, yeah. We don't respect his games. That's why you didn't want to show up to Muscle Beach with a nerd. Did you see? Yeah. Jake and I had a great time. Jake and I had a great time at the beach.

But so Jake was like, yeah, I think we should still do it and go make content while we're out here being paid to be in Los Angeles during Super Bowl week. And Billy fell back asleep before receiving that text from Jake, which came a whopping two minutes after Billy had texted him initially. And then Billy just slept in and then Jake was just sitting around like, wait, what's going on? Where's Billy? And then Jake got really mad at Bill.

Billy, which I think he was just a bat. Anyway, he was entitled. Jake snuck, anyway, I snuck Jake into Media Day at the fucking Super Bowl by telling where exactly to walk behind the curtain to get in. And yeah, not getting any points for that, though, but it's fine. No, Bill, I'll give you credit, Bill. You were mean to me on nanodosing by not listening, but you did give me workout advice. So I'll give you a break there.

Of course. Thanks, man. 50 burpees before every workout. And to Billy's credit, to Billy's credit, he did a great job guiding us all safely across the country. He drove like 60% of the time, absolutely killed it, was a content machine, was a great road trip companion. And that, you know, that's saying a lot because if you're on the road for, what was it, 42 hours, total driving, something like that, it's tough to do that if you don't have a good crew with you, that you can vibe with it, you can get along. And Billy's vibes were high for the most part. Look, I'm not looking for compliments. Thank you guys.

Appreciate it. But let's get at the FBI. Okay, moving the show along. Well, how is everybody else doing? I'd like to see how my friends are getting along because we didn't get a chance to visit with them last week. I think we're going to. We missed you guys.

Big T. I didn't miss y'all, but I'm glad you had a great time. Thank you. Thank you. I just want to say you look awesome. Thank you. You look great too. Look like having a great time out there in Arizona. Yeah, I'm out here in Arizona.

Did you see that our friend made his return to the stream? Oh, yeah. Has he reached out to you? No. He hasn't? I was told that was part of his recourse to get back, and that does not happen. Who's the friend? No, not a word.

Ariane. It's Rico, the guy that threw. through the high noon at Big T. The cam guy. I was told I was owed an apology, which I have not received. He called you. He texted me right after he left the office the day it happened when he, like, thought he was going to get fired.

But like, he hasn't. He hasn't said a word. He's in the office right now. He hasn't said a word. I don't care. I don't care. I really don't like, I don't even necessarily want him to. I just thought it was interesting that he was.

supposed to have done that. I'd also like to see. I can't say that. Um, I'm just saying president has been set. If you want a month vacation, you just got Chuck a can at someone's head, but miss. Well, I think that there's a couple asterisk on that one. He didn't get paid. I would like to see the, the verification on that. That the payment stopped. Yeah. Okay. I'll let you, I'll let you make those requests, Big T. Yeah. I'm not asking It's Noriko's bank statements. Do you think that happened? Yeah, I do.

Okay. I truly do. Because he almost got fired. You know, that's not true. I think it is true. I think he... I think it is true. I think Brandon almost got fired when he shoved Evelyn.

Like, I don't... Like, we have a place where we pay people to fight. It's not in the office. Yeah. So, would you like me to reach out to Rico? No, I genuinely have no interest in, like, whatever. If I, I hope he's rehabilitated. and a different person.

He's not, but... Have y'all seen each other? Have y'all seen each other yet? Yeah, he walks by my desk five times a day. You don't look at him? Has there been any eye contact? No. Have you been looking away from him?

I just, I do my job. I don't pay attention to him one way or not. You've seen him, though. Yeah, I see him all the time. Somebody got to be instigated there, man. So, like, if I was there, I would walk in the middle of both y'all desk is kind of look at both. I'll be like, oh, shit.

I'm not to, I'm going to do that a thousand percent. I'm going to see if he wants. Tell him to come here. I would really rather you didn't. But you said that he owes an apology. No, no, no, no. You're not an abused woman, my jeep.

Bring him in. No, I have no interest in in speaking with her. As a producer, with the neutral side. If you're going to do that, wait until I get back into the office. This would be so good for not. I think that's a, when Billy is. Wait till I get back. Billy to a situation has never de-escalated a problem.

No, because honestly... No, but Billy's on the right side of history. Yeah, I'm on the right side of history, yeah. It's the one place where history will be kind to Billy. As the producer with neutral beliefs, I think this would be great for numbers for the show. As a social media manager, I also feel the same as Avery does. As a known antagonist, I would love to see that shit pop off.

think as the person most involved with this i disagree i don't think i feel like you can get this situation we should not approach the situation as an antagonizing situation i'm hoping that it's water under the bridge and i disagree respectfully that both sides can move forward we don't we don't want this to go into another like you know violent encounter or rage-filled encounter was well i mean better better have it well here's what's going to happen though rather than late Later. Hey, hang on a sec. Here's what's going to happen. If you say, like, whatever you're doing, he's going to say that he apologized, which is what he texted me the day you left. I think we can get some real conflict resolution here, too, because what you're saying is you don't believe him that he's genuine, right?

But you have yet to reach out and see if that was the case. So what you're doing is asserting his position, which isn't fair to him. What if he really almost lost his job and he really feels bad? You know what I'm sure? I'm sure he did feel bad when he thought he was going to lose his job. But now that he knows he's right back and like, fine, like he does. I don't. But shouldn't the apology mean more now then?

Yeah. Because he has like, there's nothing to lose by him apologize. Your biggest point of contention was the apology that doesn't exist, you mean, that hasn't happened. And it's trying to be coerced by someone. Now wouldn't it mean more? Of course, I spoke about something that hasn't yet happened. Not if PFT texted him and said, hey, come do it on the show. No, I did not text him and say why would he say that? He said, come in. He wouldn't say come. If you text him, PFT you text, you're texting right now, aren't you?

I am texting him, yeah, but I didn't say, like, you need to come in and apologize to Big T. Well, what did you say? Okay, here's what I said. Rico, do you have any interest in meeting with Big T to offer any truce or lessons learned? No pressure. I didn't want to box them into an apology or anything like that. Nothing coerced by. I'm not coercing him.

I said, do you want to share anything? It is, though. And then, and then you know what the problem is right now is you guys are like a couple that broke up that you don't want to be the one that, like, like puts yourself out there because you don't want to get rejected by the other guy because he says does he want to though no i do not unequivocally i have no interest in speaking with him i'm not dropping in if he doesn't i think he doesn't want any part of it that's he's absolutely the smartest thing he's probably ever said it sounds like he's the extremely extremely respectful sounds like a man who's learned see now he going to hear that but he's going to hear what you just said and be

like well fuck that dude man he yeah i think he's already he's already come to that No, I think he's ready to make a man. It's the fucking hurt locker. We're dealing with a bomb and we don't know the timer on it. All right. So, um, so Big T. If we just role played and I'm Rico and I come in, I say, hey, big T. I'm Rico.

What do you say? How do you greet me? That's fantastic. Do you greet me by the name Rico? I, I have two conflicting thoughts on this. Wow. On the one hand, the part of me that loves to see my enemies fail and fuels me says that I should not make his life easier after what he did.

Like him doing that should not result in him coming back in his life being easier. But what if he's grown as a person from the mistake he made? I mean, though. He's not to therapy. Like, why should I go out of my way to be nice to him other than... I'm going to keep you the bug, my God. I'm gonna keep you the ball this is me all

hold on hold on let me get this out let me get this out okay all jokes aside like yeah I'd be joking the shit I don't know buddy but that's a young thought that's a very young thought no but I was what I was going to say is the other part of washing your hands

all all any blame not all blame any blame yeah I absolutely am right what was you about to say what was you about to say what what blame do you place on me you know it's something that pissed them off and you kept digging at them I don't say a word to

him. He, we discussed it on the show. He made a comment about me. And I, I, I, I said his legal name. Sure. And he lost his mind. I don't even, I don't even want to give this any more air time because it's, I mean, this has nothing to do with the situation. Has everything to do with Big T's resolved. Like, I'm telling you, like, in order to have any kind of real conflict resolution, right, because I've done years of therapy. So like, and this is what, this is what you get taught. Like, you may not have been, you have may not been antagonistic in nature, right? But you played a part, whatever small role. Like, I, like, point in case, like, I got, I got cheated on, right? I didn't do anything for her to cheat on me, right? But, like,

I took, I took responsibility for shit I did in the relationship previously that maybe have led her to that thing. Didn't warrant what she did, right? But I did play a part, a small part. What I'm saying is if you, and it's really for you, then it is for him. I ain't saying. y'all a couple this shit but i'm just saying in general in the future this is how you resolve conflict it sounds like you just want to continue being a dick that's what it sounds no no no i have nothing you also with him i just don't i i don't care i don't want to speak to him like i just i want to have nothing to do with him i'm not being a dick i'm not being a dick to him i don't want to speak to him at all like you've never called pft eric well pft isn't a piece of

shit to me right so you're putting qualifiers on it so you are admitting like you know why you were calling him that because you know it was something that he doesn't care for. Like, you keep saying because he has acted, but you don't do that to other people who years for no reason. And when PFT says like you're part of the clan, you don't go, okay, Eric, like that's my point. Like, I've never said that about big team. I also don't, I also don't think that would like genuine that would make him fly off the handle. No, it doesn't. It does like it. Now, there was a point in time at my those. Jerry did it to me like twice earlier today. And I was just like, okay, yeah i guess right that's today but like i called you doxing you would have been like what the

fuck dude i called you i called you i called you eric a whole bunch when i found out that was your first name i know i know it doesn't it doesn't bother me but um i let's try to be constructive here if riko came in and he wanted to discuss things with you in a calm manner would you be able to discuss them i just i wouldn't believe a word you cannot wait billy billy stop trying to interject yourself into this one. I'm not interjecting. I'm just trying to come. He turned to

Big T and asked him a question. And you were like, I've got this one. So Big T, if he came in here and he was like, hey, you know, bygones be bygones. I find it shocking, yet not surprising at all simultaneously,

that he's been back for today is Wednesday. So let's call it three days, not including the Super Bowl stream. And y'all are like so ready to be like man he's a new person like it's no I'm not like he has exhibited I don't know this I don't know this dude at all years of behavior of being a crazy person

and y'all are now ready to anoint him a saint I know I'm saying if he came in here ready to make a men's hat in hand and apologize if he came in here I would my I would use the years of examples I have of him being a start a new fight with him no I think I think this is, I think this is the issue, Beach. I think he's not here, so we can't do anything to critique his behavior in the past or right now. All we're doing is saying in order to have any kind of conflict resolution for real,

you have to take responsibility for your partner in it, whatever small party may be. So we're just bringing that up. And I think you're taking that as, well, what the fuck is it all on me? It should be on him. It will be on him, too. And we'll, if he's willing to have, if he's willing to have that conversation, I don't know, buddy. But I would say, yo, you would have to, if y'all want to have some real peace, then you got to take responsibility.

I would be just I'll probably bang for you I'm not probably I would bang for you more than him but I do you just in front of me right now if y'all are saying that there is a whatever percent of of what I said to him that made him do that that's fine um I I don't there's no fight with him I don't care like I don't speak to him I don't have anything to do with him so an apology isn't even like necessary or wanted like I would like to think you're the one who brought up The lack of apology. Well, his boss said that that's something he had to do. And he didn't do that.

I also, I have my doubts that like he had two direct deposits stopped. That's just my opinion. I don't know that. I don't know that. That is purely, that's purely guesswork. I think you should still thank him. Thank him for what? You was trending on Twitter, bro.

Yeah, no, sure. And that there's an argument to be made for that. But in terms of like, y'all are saying let him apologize and become like friends. No one said that. Now you're adding more shit. Y'all had a moment. Appreciate the moment. No matter.

Like, y'all was beefing him, but y'all had a moment, man. No one said like start a show together. Like, no one said any of that. Like allowing him to apologize was really all we were saying. Okay. Here's the way I stand on it. If the options are a, continue to have nothing to do with him, don't speak to him, and he doesn't apologize, or he apologizes after asked by someone who is very respected and important at this

company, who kind of has leverage for lack of a better term on him, and then continue to have nothing to do with him and don't talk to him. An apology that I wouldn't necessarily believe, if he did it on his own, that's one thing. what y'all are describing is not like those are the same to me here's why I'm asking me I'm not putting any leverage on it every time I've text them I've said this is your call it's totally you are very

one of the higher up people at this company if you ask someone to do something they are likely to do it okay so I what except you like what yeah yeah no I can't ask you like like having like have him come in bro what you mean and RICO also didn't jump

when he said come in he said does big team want me to comment that that led me to believe that he actually does want to have yeah i think you guys are both at a point where there's so much history behind you that you don't want to be the first to show any sign of weakness or be the first to put yourself out there and i get that because there there has been a lot of back and forth between the two a lot of bad blood so i i totally understand where you guys are coming from if riko does want to come in here um i just know i've put it out to him, he's welcome to come in. I've said that you would be willing to hear an apology, even though you don't think that- You said something that I explicitly did not say? Even though

he doesn't think it's necessary. You did say that if Rico wanted to apologize to you, that'd be fine. Yeah. But you said you don't think it's necessary. But you said that you didn't think it was necessary, which I also included. What you said in writing without any context conveys such a different message than what I said. Okay. How would you like me to a minute? And I said it wasn't necessary. I mean, like, I don't care. I don't really want to talk to you. Not it's, when you say it's not necessary, that means like, oh, it's cool. Like if I said, when you say no apology necessary, that means like we're good. Reading it back. I get that. Yeah. Sorry, I was, I was writing it as you were saying it out loud.

So reading it back, I can see that. He still hasn't replied to it. So my guess is I just, I don't talk to him. I have no interest in talking to him. I've gone back to PFT's question. I do think it actually is interesting. which name you call him to see where he's at because there is the it is like a dick move but yeah if he immediately explodes and i don't expect him to be a changed person over a month like that's an insane uh task for anyone to pull off like aryan just said he's been in therapy for years and like it wasn't two sessions when he was cured like that's not how this shit works at all so yeah i don't expect him to be like yeah we're best friends now i don't think anyone ever that's ever going to happen um but i do think like he probably still feels like i don't think

he likes how he comes off portrait like i think he got hired because he's a crazy person like that's part of his whole persona um so i kind of understand why you think like oh he was never really going to be fired but dave and big cat have always said like there is a line like that we have to keep him off and he clearly crossed that with no one saying that either did he i think he hates how he comes off in this whole thing. I bet he does genuinely feel bad. I would disagree with that, but that's obviously just conjecture. I think this was great for him.

No. Take a month away to a hero's return. No, no. Everyone loves how crazy you are. He'll fly off. It makes him like mysterious and dangerous. Like he loves it. I don't think so.

I don't think so. We can revisit this. We're going down a little rabbit hole. but yeah let's move on a little bit i just want to check up and see how everybody was doing and that's part of how the last week has been so yeah okay so in conclusion billy's good coli you're all right erring you're cool avery doing well mad dog you're doing pretty sweet too and then big tea is great yeah great if i were doing any better it'd be illegal p o't how are the ohio rest stops good question mad dog the ohio restops were um

They are unique. They're different from the other rest stops. Well, did you go to like pilot flying jays or did you go to like turnpike restops? We went to, that's a good question. Where were they, Billy? They were, I don't know. We actually didn't stop in Ohio that much, to be honest. We went to one and it was very nice.

No, we went to Pennsylvania. No, no, Bill, you're wrong. We stopped at one in Ohio. It was either at the, I think, I think we stopped outside of Youngstown. Oh, yeah. Yep. That was the one time we stopped, but I don't think it was one of the ones.

Let me think. I actually remember pulling it up. No, that's the one where I took a picture and I tweeted out. Were you guys on 90 at that point? But we might have still been in Pennsylvania. It was that close to outside of Youngstown. No, Billy's wrong. We're 100 million percent in Ohio because it was really, really dark.

Yeah, we were definitely in Ohio at the time. It was nice. It had so many things. like people go to these places to buy stuff for their house yeah yeah it's not just especially if you're in youngstown no offense to youngstown people are people are about shopping there yeah no you get you get housewares you get uh decorations for your home groceries groceries so many signs are up like you have all these little cute homey signs that you can put up things like what was it uh something about um there are like four main food groups vegetables oh we were in oh yes

and wine. Yeah. And then just like a bunch of stuff that you could picture 45 year old women purchasing you know, by the handful. Yeah. And there are a lot of really funny,

really funny, really a funny guy. Yes. A lot of figurations. We stopped at so many places. I was just like, I was jogging my memory. And then you were like signs.

It was like home signs. And I was like, oh yeah. Defiance is we're there. Like that's Ohio. So adamant about not stopping in Ohio. Like the defiant, not even like maybe we did.

Like, No, that's what kills me. Just because I know we stopped our last stop because we drove, once we, we drove straight to Cincinnati and before we didn't stop like four hours before going through getting to Cincinnati. No, you're right, Billy, though. Youngstown is on the edge of Pennsylvania. And then if you go from Youngstown to Cincinnati, it's about four hours. So Billy, I mean, Billy was like, you're thinking is that. The only because they sold beer in that gas station.

So it had to be Ohio. Oh, yeah. We did pick up a 24 pack of coolers. there yeah so yeah it was ohio was wonderful but i i get why people like ohio rest stops now it's just it's really just me yeah well i get i understand it by liking towards it yeah i get they're nice they're comforting they're unique they're different from but there's bigger ones that have like all the restaurants and stuff in ohio we didn't stop at one of those yeah yeah we missed those are we did stop in a gas station yeah the domes the domes are what like makes time stop for me

There's some other cool ones that we saw in Arizona, I think, in New Mexico. What's the one with a giant teepee? Was that Arizona? I think that was New Mexico, I want to say, because it was... Yeah, instead of a giant dome, it's just a huge teepee that you go inside. Yeah, getting to see the country was wonderful. And then, Arian gave us a great recommendation for New Mexican food in Albuquerque. Or was that you, that was your mom's recommendation, right?

Yeah, yeah, I can't voucher. but I, you know, I love my mom, so I let her take the wheel on that one. And your mom was a bit racist towards us and said, you guys, you guys look like you can't handle a lot of flavor because you're white. Stitt, she did, I still. So maybe order it at a low spice level. We got the regular spice and it was wonderful. It was very saucy.

New Mexican food is delicious. Yeah. I have yet to encounter, like, the Southwest in general, like has a very different style in like anywhere I've been like it's very unique yeah but but let's get into the FBI because I feel like there's a lot that we can cover here the FBI and all their controversies through the ages Billy says that he's got a fact sheet ready to go that's going to blow your mind this time I'm actually going to share it with all you guys because you guys deserve it you've re you've re earned we've reared

privileges yeah okay yeah send it off thanks man But the FBI, does anybody here have a good impression of the FBI? Big T. The FBI is a an organization often used as a tool for political discord, I will say. I think you're correct. Now, if I'd ask you that same question, say, seven years ago. What was your impression of the FBI? Seven years ago would have been

2015. Yeah. I would say that they were an organization doing what they felt needed to be done for the security of this country and that they did the best that they could with the information

that they had at the time. Okay. So I agree with the, I think you're telling it 100% you know, before we dive deep into it, I always found it funny as hell, though. that, like, right-wing folk, when Trump was banging the bad FBI drum, like, you weren't getting a lot of pushback from us, like, at all.

They were like, yeah, we agree. Now, just take it to the local level in the police departments, and then we are on the same page, but they won't. They're like, back to blue. It's like, FBI corrupt, local police station, not corrupt. I always found that fascinating. Yeah, and there were a lot of people in, like, resistance Twitter spaces and blue check marks

who were all of a sudden fully on the side of the FBI like trust our law enforcement go Robert Mueller go rule of law and people that would have been singing a completely different tune about the FBI if the shoe is on the other foot

so I do agree with Big T that there's a there's a blatant hypocrisy by people and I think it's equally on both sides of the fence that they like the FBI when it serves their purposes when they're investigating people that were in the counterculture movement in the 60s, it was like, good, arrest those hippies.

But when it's going against their guy, Donald Trump, they're like, fuck the FBI, they're a tool of political oppression. So a lot of people's opinion on the organization is completely dependent on who they happen to be attacking at the time. But I think that they've overall, like this giant law enforcement branch, has proven that, yes, they might occasionally they do arrest bad guys who probably need to be. be arrested. But they also, this goes for a lot of jobs, I think. They have some downtime and then they start figuring out things that they can be getting themselves involved in to make their careers

and they end up overextending themselves and pressing against people that do not need to be fucked with. And they can actually cause a whole lot of harm by doing that. I mean, the FBI, from what I've looked at, the only like, like overall positive, The FBI is supposed to be a domestic agency, and it's, you know, arms outside of the U.S. have expanded recently, especially in the Cold War. The only like, like, surefire I can hang on the FBI's hat is that they got rid of the mafia, the mafia's influence in the United States. That I can be like FBI check.

The rest is all, you know, like, it may have been more bad than good. But, you know, we say that enjoying a lot of the. the security that they have given to us. There's, you know, I do think the bulk, they try to do good, but I think if you look at how the FBI was developed, you're going to see that it's a lot of decentralized planning in a lot of different offices in different places, just sort of a lot of cowboy agents taking on what they thought was a worthy cause. Yeah, before we get into all the controversies, let's go around the room and say something good about the FBI. I like the jackets. The jackets are cool. Those windbreakers with the yellow.

letters on the background those are cool jackets objectively if anybody if you're ever in an office when a bunch of people in those windbreakers store men you know some shit's about to go down you fucked up big time I like the jackets and I like the female body inspector novelty shirts that they sell on the boardwalk those are funny they get a laugh every time I see him I like law and order SV is that the FBI no that's the special victims unit of the NYPD okay you like Christopher Maloney and Mariska Hargitay. I co-signed with that.

My issue about the FBI jackets is what distinks them from being real and fake? Yeah, it seems like it would be something very easy to counterfeit, right? Right. No, you can't get those exact same jackets like a fucking party city or something like that. Yeah, they are, they're admittedly like kind of swagless, but at the same time, they're pretty cool. Yeah, it's not like a starter jacket. No, I think that's their appeal though, right? Their appeal is like, it's like Facebook, like less is more.

You know what I'm saying? It's like a nice clean template. Yeah, it's like nice clean template. You know what I'm saying? Just easy to use, easy to slip on. You notice it when you see it. That's a good point. So, Avery, that'd be sick if they had starter jackets. That would be. Too many old white men for that kind of swag.

So if I'm looking for something positive to say about the FBI, it is that they did a thorough investigation on Michael Jackson's hard drives. they investigated him for years and they came up with nothing they came up with nothing Michael Jackson is innocent okay coolly great name FBI like succinct hits all the right notes like it sounds better than CIA does CIA sounds like a conference that plays football games on Wednesday nights like like a like a small car that's fuel efficient the CIA? Yeah.

Okay, yeah. Good point because I was about to say the FBI doesn't send CIA. No, no, CIA. CIA sounds like TIA. The new Nissan CIA, yeah. But, yeah, FBI, I think it's a strong right there. They also have a strong, I don't know if they even still do this anymore, but in the 90s on a VHS, it was really the first thing you'd see.

It was like the original preview. Yeah. All porn. All porn. For sure. It's a good call. Yeah, you'd pop up FBI warning copying this film is punishable by like 20 years in prison, whatever it was.

Yeah, that warning was everywhere. Even when you started to play like a Ninja Turtle's video game, Coley, or like the Simpsons video game that's behind you, I'm pretty sure the FBI warning came up before you even started playing the game. Probably. Yeah, they were everywhere. Like they made it definitely, I get why people were worried about like Skynet and stuff like that because you couldn't do anything in the 90s without the FBI showing up.

Yep. And then Napster came along and called they fucking blot. Solid point, though. Good letters. They have good letters. Big T. Do you have anything positive to say? I've really been thinking Jackets was a great call. I don't know. They're kind of, let me tell you something. And we can cut this from the show if this is too harsh. I don't know if I can say this. You always try to cut shit from the show. No, no, no, no. I want this in the show. I'm saying I don't want to disparage our guests. Okay. But if the guy. who comes on later in this show is the type of guys that we've got working in the FBI. We've got some loony tunes motherfuckers investigating crime in this country. Or he knows something. I got to tell you, I don't think that guy knows a lot.

I'm going to be honest with you. He's a master falconer. He is, yeah. And by the way, it's Ben Hansen coming up later. He's going to talk to us about mostly his new career, which is exploring UFOs and the show that he's got coming out. But he was also an FBI agent. That guy seems very nice, like a source. super great dude the more he talked the more i was like man we really need to question our institutions

and who we got who we got working up there because i'll i'll give you a free positive since that wasn't one when they in movies show up to a crime scene and pull rank on the local authorities that's always sick too you're in your jurisdiction yeah i like that yeah that is pretty cool this is not your crime scene yeah my final was the fbi i does a lot of great work fighting sex trafficking in the United States and they're on the front lines. That is one of the best. You did a real one, boo. Yeah, I did it. Well, there's not many good things to say about the FBI. That's why we talk about their jackets. I will say they probably do a pretty good job, like a thorough job investigating certain financial crimes.

They've got a lot of tools that we don't have. They've got some, they probably do a thorough job usually I don't know I guess maybe I'm sure I'm sure they yeah I'm sure they've cracked some cases for sure man they they just all in that but you know I think I think I think their overall like especially their their origins is just it's just

rooted in filth like and so it was bound for corruption. Is the FBI like do we not know a lot about the things they the good things they do because it's so top secret or am I trying to give them more credit than they deserve them and the CIA they're They can always pull that card, which is, you don't know everything we do. If you knew half the stuff that we knew, you'd be walking around and fear.

Like you can't handle the truth. One of the first things I did in the fact sheet was differentiate what the CIA does versus what the FBI does. Okay. So let's walk us through that, Billy. Yeah, you got it because everyone's like, oh, FBI, CIA. But the missions of each of them, so for example, the CIA was originally started to just be, Like the prime informational briefing for the president, their, you know, powers have definitely expanded since they were just supposed to basically hand, like a fact sheet to the president on issues that he had to decide on. You were the original CIA. What you do on the show?

Yeah. So I'm the original CIA for macrodosa. As you could see, I probably, you know, then imagine me like going to find the information myself and then, you know, pull. up with guns and being like, I have the, I have the authorization of macrodosing. Dr. Anthony Fauci, you're under arrest for fucking mother Teresa. You're out of your jurisdiction. I work for a podcast. So, so the FBI focuses on law enforcement, whereas the CIA exists to collect foreign intelligence for the United States. So specifically foreign for the CIA. It used to be FBI was

largely domestic. CIA was largely foreign, where we had zero jurisdiction. So, for example, the mission of the FBI is to protect the American people and uphold the Constitution of the United States. Currently, the FBI's top priorities are protect the United States from terrorist attacks, which was added. They never were supposed to deal with foreign affairs until, recently, namely the bombing, the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, that is when they started to become more involved in foreign affairs. To combat significant cyber criminal activity, to combat public corruption at all levels, this is where they went after racketeering, a lot of political corruption. This is where I think they did some of their best work to protect civil

rights. That is definitely, you know, generous saying that now. to combat transnational criminal enterprises, to combat major white-collar crime, to combat significant violent crime. Now, the origins of the FBI actually lies in that they were originally named the, basically they were originally supposed to stop human trafficking in the late 1800s, early 1900s, when you had a lot of people moving out west, And there was a lot of trafficking of immigrants from the northeast, as well as rural females in the southeast into the west, namely Nevada, namely the southwest, in the west and largely because there was a huge gender discrepancy out west. It was mostly males, and there was zero, like males going to the gold mines, going to, you know, you can read about that's how sort of the whole.

Las Vegas, Nevada brothels came about was because of this imbalance of male to females in the West. The ratio was off. Yeah. And it was called the National Bureau of Criminal Identification. That wasn't its first name. It was originally, let me, let me gather my notes before I go off. Okay. The Bureau of Investigation was the original namesake of the FBI. The National Bureau of Criminal Identification was a different sector used to identify mostly different states. It was a collection of different states criminal records, which was then combined with the Bureau of Investigation later on. The Bureau of Investigation was famously one of their first controversies, was going after Jack Johnson, the African American boxer, who was one of the first people to publicly marry a white woman. and it was one of the first interracial marriages,

they sort of were ascertaining and trying to take action against Jack Johnson that Lucille Cameron was a prostitute marrying him not under her own free will. So from the beginning of the FBI, there were sort of like directed attacks on, you know, the idea of the attack on America, the attack on, you know, all that sort of stuff,

which the Jack Johnson case is quite, interesting in that it was one of the first sort of controversies, the Bureau of Investigation to be FBI got involved with. So you had the Bureau, in 1933, you had a bunch of different agencies. So to think about it, the FBI is a combination of a bunch of these older different agencies

and basically adopted the largely segmented Bureau's of Prohibition you know there's a bunch of different agencies that now come all under the umbrella of the FBI so there was this

the FBI really came to big standing when this guy Jay Edgar Hoover who did 48 years with either the Bureau of Investigation the Department of Investigation and the FBI so this is the guy who's the dams named after and also the guy who you know

was one of the biggest, you know, adversaries of guys like Martin Luther King. Yeah. Yeah. So Jay Gher Hoover, he served as director for 48 years until 1972. I'm of the belief that if you're at the top of any organization for 50 years, you're probably a real dickhead. You probably have done a lot of fucked up stuff.

Like who lasts that long ruling anything for 50 years? You have to always have like a head on your stuff. swivel. You have to know who your threats are, who your enemies are, not just the ones that you're supposed to be investigating, but also the ones from within that simply want your job. And so he, we can maybe get to this a little bit later, but he collected files on everybody. I'm talking presidents. I'm talking civil rights leaders. Any prominent person in the United States, Jay Edgar Hoover had a file where he would try to collect as much blackmail on you as possible that he could use to compromise you in the event that you ever did anything that would

threaten him remotely. But yeah, so he he served there for a very, very long time. And so Billy, what was what did he do when he got into power? What were what was the FBI involved with? What were his first major tasks? So some of the big names that the FBI took out early on must of it was related to prohibition type crime. They got John Dillinger, Babyface Nelson, Kate Ma Barker, Alvin, Creepy Carpus, George Machine Gun Kelly. Some of these names that are outlaws you sort of hear of, but don't really know, you know, much of their legacy. The FBI put a lot of them away. They were big investigators into racketeering.

Even one of their earliest racketeering case was something called the Oregon land fraud scandal. So basically, you had people giving out land. They needed a investigative bureau to take down politicians who were basically granting nepotism and giving their friends, basically a ton of land that wasn't in their jurisdiction and not using the proper avenues for these people to actually apply to get this land. Other activities of the early decades was focused on the actual control of the coup. in the Southeast United States. They were working on the Viola Luzzo lynching case, who actually was murdered by an FBI agent, if I'm correct. They went after Nazis who were proliferating the U.S. during World War II, skeptical of communists. And they also were in charge of the list of Japanese nationals as well as Italian and German Americans who they thought

were working for the Axis during the war, which in turn they put into internment camps in the Southwest. So the FBI was in charge of FDR's internment camp program because they had the list of all the Japanese individuals, which were the majority of those interned as well as a couple German Americans and Italian Americans who were thought to be working for the Axis. Yeah. Anytime you're compiling a list of a certain ethnicity, you're fucking up. Just know that. You're in the process of doing something really fucked up. So you should stop. Yeah. They were big list people. They had a list of sexual deviance in Washington. They had a list of possible enemy nationals, a list of, I mean, the list of maybe mafia, you know, mafia-related people.

List keeping back then must have been a real problem. That must have been really, you have to be organized as fuck. Say something nice about the FBI. They were very good at paperwork because in the days before computers, keeping a list, a centralized list and then distributing that list to everybody else and keeping them up to date, that was a big pain in the ass, I'm sure. Also, they had a list of Mexican neo-revolutionaries under the leadership of General Enrique Estrada in the mid-1920s, who they thought were trying to.

to cause a rebellion to succeed that part of California back to Mexico. Not to be confused with St. Patrick's regiment that fought with the Mexican army in the Spanish American War. Right. Gotcha. Billy taught me that fun fact on the way to California when we helped this young gentleman get his car out of the snow and he was a red-haired young man that spoke Spanish and he had freckles and Billy was like he's definitely an ancestor of the St. Patrick's regiment from the Spanish-American War. And then I was like, Billy is insane, which I stand by that statement, but he's also probably not 100% incorrect that there's a possibility.

It's just, I mean, look at Canello. Yeah, no, that was basically your entire thesis behind it. He looks just like Canella. Anyway. Yeah, anyway. All right. Anybody have any questions or comments so far with what we've learned about the FBI? I know you briefly mentioned their involvements with MLK.

Are you going to go into details of that? Yeah, I mean, if anyone else wants to take the reins on that, but... I would love to. The jig or, well, I think that's the biggest misconception on, especially when you talk about politics and right-wing politics today, is like everybody loves MLK. He's like a beloved figure. he has the most famous quote of all time right and but nobody realizes how much he was hated while

he was alive people hated him there was like there's there was polls done on him and how much he was an unfavoral character he was definitely an advocate for uh social democracy was an advocate um for worker unions he was he was constantly calling out white supremacy and and its effects on on american society um and so he was not favored amongst the populist right, especially in America. And even within our own community, he wasn't highly favored. Because a lot of people said he was too radical. Other people said he wasn't radical enough,

especially in the like of the ilks of Malcolm Mex, those kind of figures, didn't think he was doing enough or they didn't like his approach. So when you talk about the FBI's doings, they were absolutely insane. They wiretapped his phone. They had lists of civil rights leaders that they did this to. They sent him a suicide package and told him to kill himself.

They literally told Dr. Martin Luther King to kill himself. They had a whole bunch of blackmail on. on him. Obviously, he was a very promiscuous man. So they tried to use that against him. They were constantly stalking, surveilling him. And the funnier part is, I don't, not to my knowledge, and I could be incorrect. But to my knowledge, they have, I have yet to see any kind of posthumous attempt at reconciliation from the FBI. They are bad or we fucked up. We did this. We did wrong. They tweeted out of a year. Yep.

Good point for that. So I was about to say, they always tweet, happy MLK day from the FBI. Yeah. And which they get roasted every single fucking MLK day, which is, you know, it's kind of like an American Twitter tradition, actually. They should be a, should be a thing. FBI getting roasted because it was just unbelievable how, how much and how bad it was. And it wasn't just MLK. It was the infiltration of the Black Panther.

party. It was all, like, they try to put a wedge between Michael Mex and the nation of Islam, literally was incremental in getting Fred Hampton killed, who died at the age of 21, who was a brilliant thought leader in the Black Panther Party and literally got him murdered with the, with the use of the Chicago Police Department. So it's all stem from the brain of Jay Gerhoover. Jagger Hubert. Well, he thought that black liberation was America's number one terrorist problem and threat. Yeah, he hated, absolutely hated communism, hated. And he thought that everything that was supported by people who happened to be on the American left was tantamount to communism.

So the American left supported the black liberation movement, civil rights movement. there was the counterculture movement in the 60s he hated anything that they supported so he would insert a lot of a lot of instigators he would infiltrate these organizations and put them up to crimes that they otherwise would not have committed you know things that you hear about a lot nowadays i'm sure that big tea can go off on that a little bit later but this has been happening to everybody this has been happening for for decades and decades and so you know it's funny I'm going back to what I said earlier, but it's funny that nobody is keeping that same energy depending on who their target is. I think that we as a society need to keep that same energy for the FBI no matter who is being targeted.

And I think that's the funny part is you'll find a lot of progressives did, right? And then when they were like, when Trump was like FBI bad, we were like, hell yeah, just keep going though. Like continue this because the corruption is riddled through all of our American institutions. That's literally what we're saying.

And people don't want to take it a step further. Like there's been, when we take it to the, for example, we take it to the police departments. There's been study after study conducted this racial bias in policing, but you got it back to blue. There's there's been FBI agents that have infiltrated KKK groups and say that they, when they go off, they go to police departments, they go join different authoritative American institutions. This is what we're saying. we're agreeing with you but we just they don't want to take it one step further for obvious reasons

but um another group let's get back today if you i go ahead go ahead yeah i was going to say another group that he targeted back in in the 50s uh with the sexual deviance thing that billy was bringing up um that was homosexuals so he had he had a hard on for homosexuals and he was going to take him out he wanted to purge all levels of government from anyone who was gay and so he unilaterally came up with this branch of investigating anyone to put them on a sexual deviance list. And what that meant, by the way, if somebody says to you like unilaterally, I think that we should just look into all the sex stuff, they're probably guilty of some sex stuff themselves. So this was all from his brain. This was all his direction. And then later on, it came out that he had some interesting

activities that he liked to get into behind closed doors himself. But he wanted to get rid of any homosexuals that were involved in any level of government. And I think that probably ties into him just hating anybody that supported any sort of progressive policies back then. So that his, his brain set the direction for the FBI for those 50 years. And I think naturally, you can probably say like if you're a gay person and you're in government back in the 50s, you know, to say nothing of what society was like at the time and how it looked at you.

But if you knew that what you were doing was going to be. investigated by, you know, by law enforcement, you were probably going to break some other laws in order to keep your personal life secret and your personal preferences secret. And so he was able to use that power and that fear to get a lot of people arrested, a lot of people kicked out of government, essentially just for being homosexuals. And yeah, then the 50s and 60s rolled around and he just, he started a little thing called Cointel Pro. I'm sure Billy, just about to hit up on it. Billy, I'm sure, has some facts. And then, Ari, and I'd love to hear you speak on it. I just wanted to comment back on their actions with the civil rights. They helped cover up

the murder of Viola Luozo, sorry, Viola Luozo, who was killed by Gary Thomas Rowe, an FBI informant who at the time was also an active member of the Ku Klux Klan. He assisted in the murder of Viola Luozo and then helped orchestrate making a lot of the court. It looked like she was a drug addict and basically having multiple sexual relations, try to paint her in an extremely bad public light, which at the time was totally defamatory. And it was only discovered during the Freedom of Information Act that this was all orchestrated by Luozo's children that all of this was basically a whole hoax and ruse and that she was basically a white civil rights activist.

who came to place like Selma to help out and, you know, help Dr. King and the cause of civil rights and everything. And she was basically murdered for doing that by, with FBI ties. So, you know, there's tons and tons of these sorts of incidents that, you know, are all subject to, you know, now we know. Okay. So, so Cointel Pro. Let's talk about it. stands for counterintelligence program. They do a good job naming their operations. Very good.

Extremely strong names. Fire. It sounds fire. Sounds like crypto. Yeah. Cryptos fire. There should be a coin called coin Telpro. We're going to get back to more Billy facts about the FBI in a second.

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So, yeah, Arian, you want to speak on Cointel Pro? Yeah, I mean, I was good. Some of the basics, man. It was founded specifically to target, infiltrate, sabotage, many different groups in the 60s and 70s. So you're talking about Black Panthers, Black Freedom Movement. You're talking about feminist organizations, animal rights groups, American native groups, Puerto Rican, civil rights movements, anti- Vietnam groups when and what they did was it's like there was a gas is why and in a few podcasts before I was like the American government operates much like a gang members do they operate and and they want to control resources and land and they have little groups like the FBI and Cointel Pro exactly to be specific to to try to carry out that objective and so Cointel Pro like I said targeted all these groups. They did everything from murder to sabotage when you talk about like the Black Panther Party.

And so when you talk about like the communist propaganda that is still permeating through our society, what the Black Panther Party, a lot of what they did in our inner city groups was they fed, you know, up to 20,000 kids at a free breakfast program. They had clinical aid clinics for free to try to give people aid and testing for sickle cell anemia, stuff like that. They were very adamant about the Second Amendment, right? They were like, we should be able to carry guns that scared the shit out of them. Matter of fact, the gun laws are so stringent in California, in part to the Black

Panthers marching on the steps of Sacramento saying, you know, we have the right to carry guns. And within a week or two, new gun legislation was passed. And so like I said, Coyntel Pro was did everything from monitoring, surveilling, infiltrating, they've murdered people, they've sabotaged, they've tortured people, all under the guise of that this is a direct threat to security for the United States, which was just a bold-faced lie. And what bothers me the most about this shit is like there hasn't been a lot of retroactive, like, yeah, we fucked that up in the FBI or the American government. And they continue, I mean, there is a lot of people that say they continue to do the same things today.

And so that's just testing on the basis of it. I mean, the depth would just be going into details. Like all this information is readily available, right? So anybody who's like, oh, you bullshit and bring a race and yada, look it up. Just look up Quintel Pro, a lot. Even the shit that they have, right, is fucking horrible. But there's been files that have been lost. There have been files that been damaged, burn, whatever case may be, that we don't know

100% the extent. And so when you talk to a lot of a read-up a lot of these Black Freedom Movement leaders, they talk about it. They talk about how they would infiltrate rival. I think it was, yeah, I believe it so, the guy that got the dime dropped on Fred Hampton, the FBI, I think, paid him like $200 or something like that.

Like, shit is sick. And so when you look at the extent of what they did, It's just gross. It's disgusting. And this is why you'll see them getting roasted on social media every single day. Like, I would argue that the FBI has done more harm than good. What's the upside to the FBI being on Twitter? I don't know.

I think it's just like any other American institution, man. They love promoting that shit. It's like the be all you can be commercials. Like, it's like the Army. It's like the police. Like, they love for some reason, they love. still in $20 worth of we putting it on social media

saying we got a bust and you're gonna be in their ass roast them. But I think any publicity is good publicity in their eyes. I think they understand marketing and especially in the hyperbolic, very infused political society we have today. If you can get enough circulation on it,

there will be enough people that would agree with it that in turn markets for your organization. How many followers do y'all think the FBI has on Twitter? Probably not that many. It's like 200,000. Yeah, I wasn't going to say that one. I was going to say $1.5 million. $167,000.

The highest guess is not even close. 3.4 million. Whoa. Who is fucking dweaves. Who is following? Like, these tweets, FBI's, Boston's Joint Terrorism Task Force provided information to authorities in Sweden.

Like who, who, 3.4 million followers for this shit. International partnerships. help protect the U.S. are scientists and weapons of mass destruction coordinators. Is it like job listings? I could see that being useful. Cybercrime. They have more followers. I don't want the FBI getting their employees from Twitter.com.

Honestly, honestly, probably all of the engagement they get from the MLK tweets probably pays off. I just clicked on people that I follow that follow the FBI. Y'all want to take a guess who follows them? I just followed. or a second ago. Jack Mac. Billy, why did you just follow them? I just followed the same.

Oh, it was Billy. I didn't know he just did it. Okay. I literally, I just did it a second ago when I pulled up the page. And Riggs. So now we know you don't follow Riggs. And Spider.

Spider follows the FPI. Probably just keep tabs on them. No, Riggs. Riggs was at the bottom. I do follow Riggs. Maybe that's where, maybe that's where Spider gets all of his Nets tweets about like who's not playing that night.

No, do you know? how he gets that? Yeah, yeah, he's still on a list. Is it Nets or is it Nix? I always forget. That's, no, he's the number one Nets reporter in the country as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, everybody go follow at HQ Spider on Twitter because he will give you all of your Nets news before it's news because he worked at Hofstra, right? And Fordham. Fordham. Yeah, yeah, that's right. He's a ram. He's in the Ramley. And when they would, he was on like the journalist, the sports journalist list there. And so they would send them all the news about the inactives and injury reports,

and they just never took him off it. So he gets it even before Shams or Woj tweets it out. You can get that ahead of time from Spider. Surprisingly, CIA has 3.3 million followers. Why is it less than the FBI? I don't know. That's a good question. There are so many people following these motherfuckers.

I was shocked. More than like just U.S. military. I looked up the Navy. The Navy doesn't have half as that way. much or the army so it's not like it's not like just people follow military organizations do they have do they do like promoted tweets or ads where they have to hashtag ad or hashtag partner yeah like the u.s army and the u.s navy all have like 1.5 1.7 the fbi has enough followers they could be doing serious brand deals they could be yeah like people should be reaching out to the

FBI to be promoting shit yeah are you having trouble getting a bad bad night sleep because you're being investigated by us. We'll try Helix sleep. Yeah. The best mattress for your money. Space force. Me and these. FBI.

Meandies. You shit your pants seeing those lights in your rearview mirror. Our micro modale. We'll spread that around for you. There was also an investigation that was done called the citizens commission to investigate the FBI in the early 70s and they actually broke into an office in Medina, Pennsylvania, and they stole a bunch of classified documents and they sent them out to a bunch of newspapers. And then everybody was like,

what, holy shit, the FBI does this. So essentially until like the 1970s, if you, if you thought about the FBI, you probably had a pretty good public impression about them because you didn't know any of the bad shit that they did. But then depending on the demographic, you asked, depending on the demographic but I think like overall it was probably way more positive than it is now because none of their stuff had really been brought to light unless it affected a community that you were in or people that you had direct ties to it was probably yeah there was probably some word of mouth but that was like the first rock solid evidence that most of the country was ever exposed to that was that was back then it was just like oh they take down mobsters they killed john

Dillinger like they're you know actually doing just getting criminals and well I mean you could make the argument that in the 1920s prohibition was started by some pretty nefarious causes and the the bootleggers and racketeers yeah they were violent they killed a bunch of people and they made life very very painful for a lot of their enemies but they were breaking unjust laws I would say so are you signing off on the Valentine's Day massacre No, I'm not signing off. A day after it's almost a hundredth anniversary. I am not signing off on that, but I am saying that if you make something illegal

and you make it a target for law enforcement, then you're going to get some people who have probably naturally violent antisocial inclinations that are going to be the ones who break those laws and take the most advantage of them. So by making it illegal, you actually introduce a lot of that violence. no i'm just busting balls but the whitey bulger case is a good example of how even when dealing with racketeering they took huge um oversteps by basically letting whitey balger even though he was an FBI informant totally just run his business and dominate you know the boston crime world isn't a kind word for what was happening yeah uh so more about the coin tell pro

At one point in San Diego, there was a group called the Secret Army Organization, and that's a paramilitary right-wing organization that was in San Diego. And the FBI did a little handshake deal with them. And they kind of deputize them as being like an army, like their own branch of the military for the FBI. From what I could pick up is the FBI had all the lists of the anti-war protesters, communists quote unquote civil rights leaders and basically gave that list to this secret army that was just about i think it was 30 guys with military training to just bomb fire bomb burn down and just do terrible things in southwest california yeah the coin tell program

had it targeted everybody that was considered to be an enemy of jagger hoover went after him got a lot of people arrested, actually killed a lot of people back in the 60s, especially. And then, Bill, you want to take, you want to pick up after Cointel? What happened in like the 70s, 80s, 90s? Anything you want to dive into there? They were actually pretty hard on our guy Elvis. They saw Elvis as a threat to U.S. interests. They thought that this was a very interesting one.

You know, Elvis's gyration of the hips was thought to cause a moral panic of the time and caused the sexual drives of the American youth to be aroused. They found that all of his, they sent people to his shows to watch Elvis perform. And this is what they came up with. I can only imagine those guys in the audience with like a stopwatch timing, his hip gyrations per minute and then counting him up. It's funny how like that caused him moral panic. And now you've got like Kodak Black having sex with a woman at a hockey game in public.

Yeah. Maybe they were right. Who knows? One thing leads to another. So what do they do with Elvis? Did they try to infiltrate his people? Did they put anything out against him? Did they make him join the army?

There were talks of it, but like basically ensuring he didn't dodge the draft to almost get rid of him. But they were looking at all of Elvis's. uh, like dealings and basically Elvis was the target of a lot of blackmailing attempts, which was what they found out when looking into, um, all of Elvis's dealings. Because they were trying to frame him as they're trying to out him as a homosexual Elvis. That was their sort of edge to think they to get rid of him basically, but they found out that the king was actually being targeted by people who are trying to also frame him as homosexual and extort him so what why was why did everybody want Elvis to be gay why was that like

the big target well if the FBI could prove that then they could sort of label him into that sexual deviance category and just get him canceled they keep by that those standards they keep sending them hotter and hotter dudes and they're like no he didn't fuck this one either basically we got we got to amp it up a little bit I think Elvis was seeking treatment for pock marks on his cheeks and he was getting skin basically plastic surgery of that day i don't know what the exact procedure was and this one guy kept propositioning him to try to get him on tape um and basically the fbi helped him out because they found that this guy was actively trying to uh get him it was a weird story but let me let me bring up the exact uh

Basically, they thought Elvis was doing some pretty wild stuff, and he was a victim of a couple extortion attempts. That's what they found in his file. They also targeted the American Indian movement back around that same time, culminated. Not necessarily culminated, but there was the case of Leonard Peltier, which probably deserves its own episode to dive into about a guy that was very active on that that had some run-ins with. the FBI and a lot of speculation that things that he was accused of doing had FBI fingerprints all over him. But I don't think that we have enough time to dig entirely into that. But that was another group that they targeted. And again, this all came from one person's brain. And that was Jay Edgar Hoover. And so Hoover, he got out of the FBI when 1972, I want to say. Let's see.

somewhere around that time frame and then it transitioned and I think that the FBI lost some of that original I don't want to say charm because it's not charm but it lost his insanity

and it switched more over into a typical law enforcement operation where it just started to overreach on a lot of stuff. The Cold War was good for the FBI in that basically they stopped messing with the American people and started focusing on

who were informants for the Russians and trying to figure out Cold War stuff. And, you know, that I think if you look at that period of the 80s during like the 1984 summer Olympics, that they were pretty focused on the Cold War. And actually, they may have been, I don't think they're exactly implicated a lot of the crack epidemic Reagan era stuff. I think that was more of the CIA. but I think the FBI sort of toned down its domestic dealings from my research. Yeah, I mean, they were kind of involved with some of the stuff going on with the Sandinistas and things in Central and South America and some of those revolutions.

But I feel like that was mostly the CIA. The FBI, they had some agents that were, you know, boots on the ground here in the United States making sure that certain shipments got through. certain shipments did not get through, especially when it comes to like the war on drugs. But I feel like that's, that's mostly the CIA's department was installing overseas governments that we wanted. Also, a lot of, the FBI also deals with a lot of crimes on a native reservations. So that's one of their huge jurisdictions is on native land. They actually do a lot of the policing in some regards, instead of like a state police coming in.

It's the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and unfortunately, they don't do that good of a job at ensuring that a lot of crimes don't get overlooked. So, yeah, the FBI, I mean, honestly, doing all this research, like, I like to think that such a large government agency does more good than bad, or maybe they just get highlighted more and bad. But, you know, of all the things they're in charge of, it doesn't really look too good. So, fast forward to the 90s, one of my, I don't want to say favorite, but an interesting topic for me is the Olympic bombing in Atlanta, where they arrested Richard Jewell, who is the security guard there. And the movie that came out about Richard Jewel was actually pretty good.

I enjoyed it. The guy that plays him does an awesome job. I just always think that he's eventually going to be tapped to play Andy Reid when they make that movie one day. He would be awesome at it. And he seems like a cool guy. But it was a really sad thing that they did to Richard Jewell, who was the security guard, who all his life really just probably strive to be a member of the FBI. That was probably his goal was to reach that level of law enforcement, but he was not that good at being a cop or being a security guard until that day. He was like one of these guys that is always, you know, he's deputized himself.

He's like a rent-a-cop that does think that he's actually a police officer. He found the bomb in Centennial Park, tried to get people evacuated, and then the FBI focused their investigation on him and thought that he was the one that planted it in order to discover it to look like a hero cop. Turns out he was completely innocent of it, and they fucked it up big time, essentially drove him and his family into poverty,

and he ended up having a heart attack a few years later, brought on from the stress that that was brought to him through this investigation, but if you, uh, if you, if you, if you look into what happened in Atlanta, Georgia that day, it's, um, it's kind of remarkable that they fucked up that investigation as much as they did because this guy really had, had no interest whatsoever in, in pulling off a stunt like this. There was nothing about his past that would have told you that he, he would have been involved in an actual bombing on his, uh, on his hometown. So look into that if you have a second. And then, uh, we can fast forward to 9-9-11.

and those attacks and get more into the modern day unless anybody has anything else from that time frame. All right. So let's do it. Billy, what do you know about the FBI and the 9-11 attacks? Basically, after the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, the FBI started to make these ascertains that they were going to go after terrorism, not only at home but abroad.

They realized that a lot of the crimes in terrorism being committed were coming from outside the U.S. And this is when Congress starts to sort of laying the FBI let loose in foreign endeavors where the CIA was mostly in charge. And a lot of this actually resulted in, there was a book about 9-11 that basically stated that the FBI and the CIA all had differing parts of information that they wouldn't share with each other. A lot of it was competitive because the CIA basically, the FBI was,

sort of going to the international jurisdiction and they almost didn't want to share a lot of the information they each had with each other because both ones wanted to be, you know, the ones to crack the case, sort of stubbornness. What happened is you had important information, both these agencies that if they both knew about, they'd be able to connect the docs and maybe hopefully stop 9-11, but because you had two agencies with not much communication with information that probably would have been able to solve the whole thing. It sort of caused what happened to happen. That's one theory.

They overlooked a lot of stuff. There was a whole Arizona Flight School thing where they got tips that people were training on piloting planes but not worrying about taking off or landing them. And they investigated those and nothing ever came out of that. And that those guys would be the ones that would be part of the team of hijackers on 9-11. Yeah. Okay, so 9-11, right before 9-11, Robert Mueller was installed as head of the FBI, one of Big T's favorite guys, right?

Yeah. You chaps, Big T, here you go, baby. It's your time to shine. And so, yeah, let's get into some of the more modern-day stuff about the FBI. Big T. I'm going to let you speak on this one. On what? Just your impression of the FBI.

It sounds like a lot of change in the last five years. I like don't have like I think you think I have that strong of an opinion. I really like the Hillary Clinton thing was a joke. This this one, this new round of shit where they're like the Russia thing. Like I think they just. I don't know. I don't know. I think they act on bad information sometimes. Why do you think the FBI would change from being, you know, largely an organization that is focused on taking out left-wing threats to being one that's largely focused on taking out right-wing threats? I think they, I don't know. Why do you think that?

I don't know. I really don't. I don't necessarily think that that's true. I think that in certain circumstances, the FBI, because they have such a broad mandate and they've got such incredible resources that who at whatever direction they happen to get pointed in at any given time, they have a tendency to overstep their bounds by a long time. Right. That's what I was saying acting on. The thing with with Comey is, Comey is just such a schmuck. I think we can mostly agree on that. Like he's, have you said, do you follow him on Twitter on social media? No, is he is he tweeting? He's, like, the most basic person in the world. He'll take, like, pictures of his giant ass standing out in the middle of the field, looking on and then caption it, like, just thinking about staying in the moment for now and how fake people really make me mad. This guy has one and a half million followers.

Yeah, here's a picture of him. He's signing shit. It's a signing bookplate today for folks to attend my virtual events next month. Yeah, like, he's one of those guys that should never have become a celebrity. You know what's so crazy. none of this like I just looked up the Mueller report because I forgot what exactly the findings were of it and you can't find a straight fucking answer anywhere it's like it's almost designed that half the people can interpret it one way and half people can't no one's actually willing to make a hard line ascitation like I'm literally looking at right now like on the Wikipedia what did they find it's like nothing like nothing is straightforward like uh Mueller would wouldn't say there was no collusion, but he also said that there was. It's just, it's almost infuriating that no one has the backbone to take any sort of stand on it,

be it negative or positive, in order to quell the sort of discourse that's just been toxic to this country for so many fucking years now. My theory on the Mueller report, and I also think Big T, like this, if they had ever investigated, all the stuff that the Clintons had been up to. I'm not saying that Clintons killed people because I think that's insane. But I think that they've done a lot of really bad things for this country. And I think that when a guy like Euler or the apparatus like the FBI is investigating a president, especially like a sitting president, always in the back of their head, they're trying to, they feel like they have this mandate to make sure that

there's peace everywhere and that like the the status quo over government doesn't get that too it doesn't get too upset things don't get you know the apple cart doesn't get tipped over too hard all at once and so when they find stuff that's likely true but there's no like direct smoking gun evidence of it they're probably more willing to just be like yeah we found this but we don't recommend any charges because imagine if they had found like direct evidence and they had or if they had taken the evidence they do have and they had said our recommendation were recommending prosecution for the sitting president right now as well as his entire campaign you probably end up with you know 40% of the country that would be enormously ticked off

and thrown into turmoil and and probably a lot of elements of that that would be willing to take up arms and start shooting and so they probably had in the back of their mind like if you know unless we really have to i don't think that we need to charge anybody with the crime so do you think they actually found more than they would lead on then i'm i'm a hundred percent sure that every major campaign for president probably in history but let's just narrow it down to like the last 20 years has a million percent broken laws and fudge things yeah and reached out to try to win at any cost and knowing how trump likes to win at everything that he does i'm sure he took any sort of advantage that he could get, as a lot of other politicians have done.

He probably did it a little bit more ham-fisted than most people would be, because that's his nature. Now, what do you think of the, we'll call them reports that have come out recently about Hillary Clinton, is it? So I don't know what this report is. I can't, you're talking about the Dahmer thing? Yeah. I have no idea who the fuck Dahmer is.

I just keep hearing people say like this guy who serial killer no it's it's a new report out there that's saying that like Hillary Clinton has a law firm and an associate of one of the lawyers that worked at her law firm may have done something bad so it's not even like a direct line well I thought it was that they were and byanting some sort of evidence yeah but it's just people saying I I've been trying to look up exactly what the hell is going on with this thing and I can't figure out a single like direct uh arrow that they're pointing it's like i don't know it's it's like hillary's lawyer had a friend and then that friend did something that could be implicated as having some sort of line on intelligence into the white house itself

do you think trump reached out to someone in russia and said do something to make sure i win this election. I don't know that, but I think that if somebody in Russia had been like, hey, Don Jr., I've got this stuff that I stole from Hillary Clinton that makes her look bad in some of her business deals, do you want it or should I go away? I'm sure that they would have said, yes, I would. Yeah, I think that's different. Do you agree? I was going to say, like, by the letter of the law, if you know that they're an agent of foreign countries. Oh, I'm not saying that that's by any means legal or like you should do it. Right, right.

I think that I think that's probably more than likely that that happened. But again, I'm also sure that it's happened to many other campaigns. But like the opening line. Although except that nerd Al Gore when he got sent that videotape of Bush's prep for one of the debates that they had somebody secretly recorded George Bush preparing for their presidential debate, sent it to the Gore campaign. and Al Gore was like, this goes against my moral standing as a representative of the United States government. And he called the FBI and he gave them the tape. Now, do you think, do you think that Trump would have done that? I do not.

I think that's why he did. But, but the opening line of the Mueller report says the Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion. That to me does not. That's, that's, that's proven, though. I do think there was a hundred percent social media accounts produced in former Soviet Union countries as well as Russia that were pumping out different angles on things. Like the fact that Russia did collude, I don't even, it's not even controversial. Maybe amongst like real hard Trumpers, but like they absolutely colluded. It's just if Trump and campaign and co had anything to do with it. I guess I just, I, I disagree on the meaning of that word. Like, sweeping in systematic fashion to me indicates you had a direct impact on something.

If you were creating Facebook accounts and people believe dumb shit that was on Facebook, like, that's, that's on the electric. Hold on. Is your, is your, is your, is your, is your assertion then that social media has zero influence? on our... No, no, no, no. I'm saying that's an indictment on like the electorate and if people believe dumb shit

like that's on them. Sure, that's irrelevant, but the fact that it has influence is what's on the stand right now, not the fact that the influence, the influenced are inept. Okay, yeah, I mean, I guess I just wouldn't, uh, yeah, sure.

I don't think we really disagree. I just win I wouldn't consider that a I mean I guess I would I don't know I when you say interfere and influence an election that to me indicates something more

direct than posting weird shit on Facebook it's not like I want to just make it clear it's not like they're generating account with zero friends like spamming the comments underneath a post it's the report came out recently i can't i thought i bookmark it i didn't i believe it was nine of

the top 10 most liked facebook pages political facebook pages none of them were run by people in the united states and these things like they're click farms in a sense but they have such a large following it's like that crack pipe story that went viral like two weeks ago that didn't even turn out to be true like it's it's influence in making it seem like news versus one person popping up on Twitter tweeting like maga with a hashtag like it is truly I get what you're saying I don't respect these people's level of intelligence either big tea but there is something insidious about it that is more than just like oh we have a bunch of these accounts posts it's like no these things are massive organizations at this point that do have a ton of

of sway and just how people and people are very quick to believe the first thing they hear there's not a lot of people who push back on us i feel like it's part of the equation that's i feel like there's definitely there is so much disinformation everywhere like remember we thought trump was getting pissed on in russia we didn't think that actually i think a lot of that was a lot of people did think that no there was a lot but that's now now you're right you're right you're right you're right But it was, there was all sorts and stuff. But that's, I mean, that's, that's the, that's the colleague's point. I think the broader point, well, that is the broader point on top of that.

We're not just indicting, right? I mean, I think if you look at it from this standpoint, Bikti, it's like, there was definitely an incentivized reason for a foreign government or foreign agency to try and influence our political, our political system. We do it all the time. But it's a foreign government trying to, like, the implications that are massive, right? And I think the fact that if we take, you know, the partisan politics outside of it and you look at the objective facts about it, it happened. And it's going to continue to try to happen unless there's mitigated practices to try to stop it. It's going to continue to do that.

I think another issue with it, which we're all on board with, right, is the algorithms that these major social media corporations are pushing you. This is why I'm not an advocate for profit and only for profit motives is because if Instagram wants to do nothing but get paid and all they want to do is get money, well, then they're going to put an algorithm that shows up in your feed that's more conducive to keeping you on the app and less likely to push information that is positive and give you a clean mental habit in order to clean your mental palate so that you can understand or try to discern true from not true. It happens with YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, all of these companies.

This is their motto. This is what they do. And so what we're saying is it definitely happened. Take the partisan shit. I don't give a fuck about Trump. I honestly couldn't care less. But the fact that as a foreign government trying to infiltrate is scary as shit.

The fact that these major corporations don't give a shit about what happens to their consumers and all they do is push consumption. Like this is the recipe for disaster. That's my whole point. Yeah, a lot of companies are just centered on profit and they don't care about the message that they're sending out this segment's brought to you by russia and i would like to say that

through all the reports that i've seen ukrainian president vladimir valensky is uh zolenski has uh done a bad job representing his people and everybody in ukraine wants to be russian right now so let the people of ukraine stand up and become russian okay back to you billy no i mean well on that topic there's disinformation right now like on that topic like I just saw an article yeah no I literally just gave you some I think that was that I was a listening part yeah no I didn't really realize

where he was going with that basically I saw an article smarter than balls Aldrin I never sell fucking smarter than balls up I'm a dumb ass he said he couldn't plan this Sarah. I did not say that. I said that it would be, I bet, I bet like if I kidnap one of you, I could make you think something else is, never mind. That's, that's out of pocket. Billy, I will do a Stanford prison experiment with you. I will let you kidnap me and you can try to convince me that I'm on the moon. I love that. We're just going to take a lot of three cheap. amount of compensation you're just shaking your bad money that'll get sponsored no i will get sold to somebody i

will say that if uh if the whole russian collusion thing was masterminded by vladimir putin and it's led through you know the last couple years of chaos that we've had and now to this day where joe biden is now our president who like does anybody trust joe biden going head to head against vladimir any sort of negotiation, if that is indeed what happened for him to gain influence and to try to restore Russia to being, you know, as large in terms of land scale on the Western front as it was in the pre-Cold War era, somebody deserves a massive promotion over there. Somebody, somebody I hope has got, we'll have a statue built for them in Russia for what a great job that they did. I do want to ask a question about that in all seriousness.

Like, and I, maybe y'all have an answer that I don't have. I don't know. If the implication is Russia and more specifically the Russian government intentionally interfered to make sure that Donald Trump became president, right? Now that Trump's gone, it's not president anymore. So we have the full landscape of his presidency to look back on. What was their goal? What did they want to accomplish? Because it seems like to me that Russia was a lot more aggressive,

in a lot of things when Obama was president and now they're certainly fucking around with some shit and it didn't really see like I don't see what the the goal was I think it was I think it was a couple things one we're we're the big dog the United States is the big dog on the planet and if it was just to see if that they could do it like that that's make one thing I did see was the pullback of the U.S. in the Middle East because remember Alex Jones the whole um america first platform i think russia really wanted to take advantage of especially in the middle east because remember when trump sent uh air strikes into syria and alice jones started going nuts about how they got to trump he's a globalist now like in our russia times

everyone turned on trump in that brief second during his presidency when he uh decided to send air strikes against it in Syria. That's where I think if Russia had interest, that specifically was where it was. I think that that's part of it, the overall scope of America being isolationist is good for Russia because then they can do all their shit and not have to worry about us interfering with it. Specifically, NATO, I think the way that Trump approached NATO was pretty much him saying, like, hey, you guys need to pay me more because we're not providing you all this

protection for free, pay your fair share. It weakened NATO, which is what he wanted. And the specific reason why he wanted to weaken NATO was so that Putin could do things like take over some of those former territories. Really what Russia wants to do from what I've read, and I'm probably ignorant on this, but from what I've read, Russia wants that Western Front to be moved back closer to where it was in the World War II era. Because right now, Moscow is essentially on the border or close to it in Russia, and they have no protection on the west side. They've got all the land in the world on the east in Siberia, but they want to reclaim those countries. And there are some definitely like strategic important places in Ukraine along the Black Sea for shipping and airports. Yeah, ports, things like that.

But they want to take those countries over. So to answer your question kind of a round about way big tea, I think the two reasons, the two reasons, reasons why Putin would have wanted Trump over Hillary Clinton is that, number one, he knew that it would be a divisive presidency no matter what, and that people's faith in certain institutions in America would be weakened. You would form these different divides, which I think have been formed, and also that he could use Trump to weaken some of those states. I don't know like how much involvement he had in specific foreign policy programs of the United States or anything. But I think that that was probably his goal. And also now his dream scenario

has kind of played out where now we swung the pendulum away from Trump and Democrats. We're like, we'll elect whoever as long as not Trump. And now it's Biden who probably would have been best fit for office, I don't know, like 15, 20 years ago, if ever. Although I would make the argument that he was never fit for office because he's done a lot of bad stuff that I disagree with, but I think that's kind of, that in Putin's mind, this is all played out. If he did all this stuff, it's all played out almost perfectly for him. Do you think Putin is very smart or very? I think he's very intelligent. I think he's a very intelligent guy. Okay. I think he's a, he's a bad dude. Now that said, do I want to send an army over to

the Ukraine. Is it the Ukraine or Ukraine? I keep screwing that up. I think it's Ukraine. I don't know why everyone puts a DA in front of it. Yeah, I'm guilty of that all the time. I personally do not want to send an army over to like to confront

Russia in Ukraine. It's like data. Well, Ukraine doesn't even want Russia there. Well, yeah, that's the thing. But it's like, do we have any moral high ground? Like Joe Biden authorized the invasion of Iraq halfway across the country when he was in the Senate. Do we have any moral high ground to tell

other superpowers where you can and cannot send your army? I don't think we do. Well, I mean, I've been reading up a lot about this. I majored in political economy. And just the geopolitical scenario there is that it turns out Russia has been sending a ton of agents into you. So basically, Russia is run by a mafia state and oligarchy. Ukraine is also run by a different, you know, mafia state oligarchy. And basically the mob in Ukraine doesn't want the Russian sort of influence in their area. So they're willing to, you know, when there was sort of agents sent into a lot of Russian-based populations, ethnic Russians in Ukraine, their own mobsters who were ethnically Russian are like, get the fuck out of here like we don't you know want to be associated with you and you see a lot of

this propaganda like i just sent you guys an article about russia claiming there's mass civilian graves found in donbos which is basically saying the ukraine and government is killing ethnic russians in ukraine ethnic russians don't like the current russian government in ukraine they don't like their influence the majority of them see them as a lot of former nationals who celebrate being in a democracy, being out of the influence of, you know, Russia. And basically a lot of the both sides are sort of playing up. And even the Ukrainian people and government are saying, yo, America, Russia is not going that hard right now. Like stop playing it up like, you know, we might get invaded. And what stage Wednesday, there was a report

saying that Russia was going to invade on Wednesday so I don't think that has happened yet has Russia invaded Ukraine and we Google that right now because I could be wrong and there could be invasion happening right now I don't think they have no so 11 p.m. over there now yeah so the day is done

I don't think any there's only an hour left for that sort of report to come true there's a lot yeah it's I mean there's still time on the clock bill don't count them out Yeah, Patrick Boholmes only had 13 seconds. Well, look, in Russia, the 5 p.m. rule is not cocktail hour. It's 5 a.m. So they've been drinking all day.

So I think they're past the, you know, invasion part of their drunk. Yeah, they're passed out. They're all asleep now. Yeah. But, uh, do it tomorrow. No, but we've been receiving misinformation of how big of a threat rush is to invade Ukraine. Like, that is. I don't think that it's that much misinformation because and and Putin loves doing this shit during the Olympics that's his thing there's something about there's something about

the Olympics seeing that flame go up he's like you know I'm going to get a little bit more land back in 2014 in Soshe right during the Olympics that's when he invaded Crimea and he took that and he was like you're not going to do shit because everyone's watching figure skating well it's right after the Olympics I think it started during the Olympics and all And he, by hat, it was actually kind of a brilliant timing. This is why I think he's kind of a smart guy, even if he's a bad dude. He had some of the world's best athletes and most visible figures from their countries, as well as, you know, lots and lots of journalists from those countries that he kind of held hostage in Soshe,

because he was in the process of invading another country, essentially daring everybody that was inside his country at the time at the Olympics, being like, you won't say anything about it, because I know you won't want to get home. And he's doing it again. There's something about this time of year. He just, he loves it. He sees those snowboarders going. He's like, yeah, the Russian winter.

He just gets to him. He needs to be in the Olympics. Have you ever seen him play hockey? He's the greatest hockey player of all time. He scores 13 goals a game. He is, yeah. Also, remember, why the hell would we even think about deploying troops in Russia in winter? Like, did we just have this conversation?

We did. Yeah. Like, hey. Like, oh, we're going to send U.S. troops over Ukraine. Like, whoa there, buddy. Like, didn't we literally, like, isn't this the one thing you're not supposed to do? Yeah. And we actually, we have troops over there right now.

I don't know if they're how off the record they are, but they're definitely troops that are training the Ukrainian army and some of the, the paramilitary groups in Ukraine on how to combat Russian advances. Because if Russia really wanted to, they could just, they could take Ukraine in probably a matter of weeks. just bombed a shit out of them and uh and they have no problem doing that i mean how they took crimea i mean do you imagine the pay-per-view numbers for putin versus kim jong-un and like a decathlon of 10 different sports like they actually had to play head out head-to-head like no interference like they actually had like oh i'm watching that over what's every day no but Putin wins so easily he's washing he's johnoon shot maybe a chapman maybe a shepherd he shot an 18 playing golf yeah i got own on the links i got own on on on the hardwood he's dicing them up

Putin's got no lateral he's got some good tips from rod that's that's nas also Putin's like five foot seven yeah but he makes himself bigger than he makes himself seem godly he's mr burns what's the most you'd pay to watch that oh geez probably a couple thousand i would rather watch you've got more money than i'd um sumo wrestling match i think that would do numbies Putin also wins the equestrian events, shirtless and naturally. Kim Jong has really good lower body strength. Have you seen him ride a horse before? Charles Barkley out there.

He rides a horse like a man, like a real man. Yeah, I'm not putting flying. My man's in college was 300 plus. And he's like, yeah, I bet I can I can whip anybody in swimming. It was like, get the fuck out of here, dog. You big as hell. My man's was a fish, though, blowfish. But he was still a fish, dog.

And so I don't put nothing past any, any, any, any, any fat people in water because that motherfucker was moving, bro. I almost think buoyancy might have helped. Yeah. Also, uh, Putin's got access to better dope, I think. The, the, the Russian doping system. By the, by the way, this is my take, this is my take on that finger skater, as well as that curler who got caught taking drugs too.

What Russia does is, like, we, we all watched Icarus. In Icarus, the guy's like, yeah, we don't dope. We dope all the athletes except the figure skaters because no dope helps the figure skaters. They're definitely swapping piss of figure skaters, the figure skaters with athletes who are actually doping. And now it just popped that like they never thought they'd check the 15 year old figure skater, but she got popped for some sort of medication that probably one of the other

Russian athletes who they did some sort of switch through. I don't know. like and same with the same with the curler that's like the curler wasn't juicing it was probably one of their other samples that whoever was there switched something quickly when the russians had to report their samples why do we still let them be in the olympics like what they i feel like it i like them in the like because you know they're going to do this they're on a 14 strike policy well it's just i mean the thing is if we don't you know it's kind of good to have you know like a Washington Generals type thing.

Like we need an adversary in the Olympics because no one would watch. Honestly, I think NBC is implicated. Buddy, nobody watches anyway. Don't worry about it. If there's no basketball, no track and field, people are not watching the Olympics. Hockey.

No one gives a fuck about hockey. Without NHL players, you couldn't pay me to watch it. Billy and I are watching the women's hockey. 11 o'clock tonight. 11 o'clock tonight. I've been betting on that. I do. I do have U.S. plus a half.

So I might tune in for the first people. And Billy and I coached some of the women on the team. Yeah. And the Pink Whitney Cup. I mean, we didn't coach them. We just, we were puppet coaches. They did more than, you know, any of us could ever suggest. We coach them, Billy.

We absolutely coached them. We were cheerleaders. Yeah, who on the team right now were our disciples of ours? I know Amanda Castle is. Valerie Knight-Bline? Rousseau. Dian. Rousseau, yeah, Rousseau might be on that team.

Amanda Castle. Yeah, yeah. I think she's the captain. Yes. I'm like over four and a half in that game as well. Is that a fine? Canada. Canada.

Yeah, gold medal match. Yeah. Yeah, I got USA plus a half. Plus 172 money line and over four and a half. You can even parlay those if you're feeling real crazy. Let's go. So FBI. Anything else on the Federal Bureau of Investigation?

The only story I still find super interesting that the FBI, and more modern times that they really fucked up and maybe you can speak a little bit more on those PFTI, I think I've brought it up on here before. The D.C. snipers. They let them go longer because it was

the one time racism worked in black people's favor. They set up these checkpoints all around the city and were stopping every vehicle. and they were profiling because in this country specifically, it's mostly white people who've been mass murderers and serial killers. So that's the cars they were truly checking top to bottom,

ripping everything out. When the two guys who did it, all black men drove up, they didn't search them as much as they normally would, and they just let them go. Yeah. And gave them a couple more days and a couple more killings to get off their chest before they finally,

the murderers fucked up and kind of, led them on a trail to get them caught. So the FBI did eventually get them, but they could have got them sooner if they had just been their normal amount of races. That's true. It was it was John Muhammad's ex-wife, I think, that he had been stalking, that he had left some clues with her that she was like, yeah, this could be him that's doing that. And then that got back to the FBI and then they searched his old properties that he was at, traced it back to him. But yeah, no, at the time in the D.C. area. So it was not just Washington, D.C. It was also Maryland. And most parts of Northern Virginia, when I say Northern Virginia, I'm not just talking about Fairfax County or Arlington,

which are right next to D.C. It went all the way down almost. I think one of their shootings was almost in Richmond at the Ponderosa Steakhouse. But they had traffic stops set up everywhere. That was my senior high school. And I happened to be driving a white van at the time. No. And, it was a white Chevy Astro, and it was reported in the news that it was a white van that they were looking for. So I got pulled over probably six or seven times over the course of that investigation, and they would give my car a good look. My brother actually taped up. He came back from college one time, and he taped up a sign in the window that just said, it's not me. And then he turned the O and not into a crosshairs. I thought that was, yeah, I was, I

I think case closed. They saw him and they were, oh, he's joking about it can't be him. But it was, that was a very, very scary time. And honestly, the way that they had chosen to do it was from a criminal aspect, like, very hard to detect. So it was tough. Yeah. You had every cop and law enforcement agent in those three areas. Plus, you had the FBI working overtime trying to find out where this guy was.

And they were, they were just at a loss. They couldn't put it together because it was. Wasn't it not even a van? It wasn't a van. It was a Chevy. Like a Lincoln or something. Oh yeah. Was there any connection between the victims or was completely random?

Completely totally random, which is again why it was so difficult to figure out who it was. They started to do things like leave notes behind messages for police officers, messages, like things that you should include in your next press conference so that we know that you got this note. And that helped them put together a little bit of a profile about who it could be. But that really was ultimately inconsequential to how they caught them. But it was it was such a random crime spree that as far as like the FBI botching that one goes, I don't like it was a very tough one for them to solve. But Coley's right that they were definitely thinking this is a white guy.

Right. Which is like the one time that's really ever backfired. And to give them the slightest break, because you're right, it was a hard case to crack. There was no question. It was also, I forgot the timing of it. It was a year after 9-11. So I'm sure the FBI was pretty busy with other shit. They didn't need this thrown into their kitchen as well.

Yeah. No, it's true. It was in the fall after, it was fall of 2002. And we couldn't have, we couldn't have like recess out, not recess. I was in high school. But there was no like sports being played outside. Anyone that was in a classroom that faced the exterior of your school had to put, they put up like a construction paper.

over all the windows so they couldn't see inside. People were like running in and out of their buses on the way to get out to leave school at the end of the day. People in parking lots everywhere. You couldn't go to a gas station without feeling freaked out. Everyone was looking over their shoulders. One of my friends, I might have told this story. I'm not sure if it was on this podcast or not.

But we were driving around Northern Virginia pulled into a gas station and my buddy was filling up his car and he took out one of those plastic gloves that they have by certain gas stations where you can like put a glove on if you don't want to get gasoline on your hand to like grip the pump and all that and he just like blew it up with air absentmindedly and then popped it he wasn't thinking about anything and then everybody in the entire gas station freaked out and like hit the deck it was yeah that was a that was a scary time and i'm i'm honestly shocked that there haven't been any copycats because of how how like efficiently they were able to pull that off where it shut down an entire district of the United States and brought everything to a standstill.

Kind of a miracle that we haven't had anybody to try to do that again. In that same vein, I mean, we live in a surveillance state. The NSA has really gotten into a lot of our stuff. And the FBI, you know, is also in 2010, they uncovered various FBI task force, like, really doing serious data surveillance. like that you know with the exception of the FBI saying that they missed out on the Stone Douglas high school shooting and other shootings that occurred do you think that they've been instrumental in preventing a lot of those types of attacks happening in this new data

surveillance environment we live in and does that does that make it worth it this is just a question I'm posing no that's that's actually a great question and I go back and four-foot because when you look at like Edward Snowden or somebody like that and and the whistleblower who for those that don't know the whistleblower who blew the cap on the I think it was NSA and the CA who were who was surveilling us and and tapping our stuff unbeknownst to us until it was like a big data breach and so they did lose that I think they they lost that lawsuit against Apple though didn't they because there was like a shooter or something like that and they were saying Apple, can you help us get into the phone to like, you know, uncover more information and

evidence? And Apple said no, which I thought was a valiant stance for them to take. But honestly, I'm on offense about that, man, because like I said, everything up to this point, the NFL, yeah, them too, the FBI, the FBI, CIA, they've done time after time For time again, they have done, shown that they will use information to infiltrate and bully and murder and fuck with their citizens. So I don't entirely trust their motives in this sense, but there is something to be said about, you know, a minority report type feel where it's like they have information that

could possibly stop people being killed. It's tough to trust their motives, but at the end of the day, I don't think I trust them enough to say, yeah. Yep. I think, yeah, there have probably been a couple cases where they've been able to do something. By the way, if you think that everything got shut down after Snowden, they're still doing the same thing. Probably even bigger. No question. They probably just, like, rebuilt it from scratch using new code.

And they're like, yeah, okay, we ended that program. Last thing on the FBI, have ever just taking a casual look at the FBI's time? top 10 just like randomly it's a cast of characters let's see who's on the top 10 there's this guy his name is eugene you got to see this guy wait i'm looking these guys okay june palmer oh yeah who are the rest of these guys let's take a look they captured number 10 i feel like they got to get them off the ap poll here and slide someone else in that spot this dude this This dude, low-key looks Amish, this Eugene guy. Yeah, he has, like, the cheeks.

Oh, he's from New York? What's up? Do you know him? He's known to be interested in auto racing and is a car enthusiast. He's an experienced hunter and outdoorsman. He's wanted for allegedly shooting and killing his daughter-in-law. That's sad. Oh, my God, this was in Rockland County.

That's all he did? That's five minutes from my house. really yeah this guy's definitely living in the woods and no one can fucking find him this guy looks like a cartoon that gets you on the top 10 I think it's because he's

probably still missing and he's considered armed and dangerous yeah this guy old 10 years ago how much like is he still alive he would be like he'd be like 83 right now

this dude something else this is the worst website I've ever seen. Yeah, this is terrible website. It was made in 2001. He was, I mean, this guy was born in 1939. Yeah.

This can't be, if this is, no disrespect to the deceased, of course. If he's one of the top ten, I'd say we're living in pretty safe times. All right, so guess what the number one person, without looking? It's a man by the name of Jose Rodolfo Villarreal Hernandez. Number one, what do you think he's wanted for? I think this, actually, this is totally stereotypical. But I'm going to guess it's some sort of cartel-related, gang-related mass killing. So he's wanted for allegedly directing individuals to track and murder a man in South Lake, Texas.

So it's a murder for, not even a murder thing that he's wanted for. Now, when it says, like, directing individuals, it sounds like he's probably involved in something deeper than just like this one particular crime, especially if he's number one on the FBI list but yeah it's a murder for hire guy that's number one it also says on here that he's known as El Gato does Big Cat have something to do with this El Gato it kind of looks like Big Cat a little bit One million dollar reward let's find him

Okay let's see what this guy's up to Yeah this is a bad website yeah Alexis Who's his Jason Derek Brown guy I was just looking at him I remember him Um Jason Derek Brown speaks fluent went French and has a master's degree in

international business. He's an avid golfer, snowboarder, skier, and dirt biker. He likes to be in center of attention. This is a incredible bio. This sounds like a dating profile. Is that Chef Donnie? He's wanted for murder and armed robbery in Phoenix, Arizona. You guys could have caught him.

Dude, this is the guy, this is the type of guy I'm looking at him. He was a Mormon. He's a bank, he's a trained bank robber. He robs armored cars. This is the type of guy that gets away with it. He's definitely like the French Alps right now. Well, Teddy speaks fluent French.

One of his aliases is, is Hairline Johnson. This guy is a product of Marty Mushes. Hairline Johnson. Also, his occupation is a golf equipment importer. What does that even mean? Dude, this guy 100%, this guy's, he's gotten away with it. Completed his Mormon mission near Paris, France.

I'm not saying that Mormonism has anything to do with this, but all of these people have only killed like I've clicked on seven of the top 10 they've only like some of them killed and I guess they've all killed at least one person but none of them have killed more than one person like I'm just shocked this is the top 10 yeah how accurate is the top 10 let's go to CIA I feel like CIA might have a better list Alexis Flores looks like a um like a ghost now this guy right here. Raphael Caro Quintero. This guy has kidnapped and murdered a DEA agent in 1985. That's a big one. And he also, oh, he's a leader of the

Senaloa cartel. He's even number one. Yeah, that guy should be number one. He hasn't, he's, he's also the leader of the Carl Quintero drug trafficking organization named after him. Whoa. That guy should be number one. What a flag. All of these, but all of these people though, have been missing since like the early 2000s. Is that how you get on top 10 is that you've just been missing for so long? Yeah, I think the longer you're on it, the higher you get.

Do you think they have like a group chat? Maybe. Yeah. I actually remember. They know each other? This Patel guy who killed his wife. I remember this one. Yeah, I remember that guy.

I think it's because they got away. Yeah. Yeah. If you're on the land, if you're a fugitive, you go. it's only nine nine people have got away everyone else is caught i like that's the part i'm struggling to believe well this is just the top 10 there's a whole list i'd like to see the outside of the top 10 it's like the bcs in charge of these rankings like i don't understand who's on the bubble okay so wait i have a there's a yeah you know what they they should do brackets instead

that's how you get people in america to pay attention to this shit is just put it in bracket for him and I'll instant click it. So, yeah, maybe there was like an NIT. Yeah. Check out this. Okay, now they sort them. Oh, Jesus. There's 355 people.

What categories do we want to look at? Capital violence. Cyber's most wanted. Look at that guy. Also, like, how many people are looking at this website, actually? How many people are Googling FBI top of that was wanted? guarantee there's like independent investigators who in their free time try to crack this like do you think dog is on the case on any of these wait I want to see this dog's in the case of

all of them really right like I mean there used to be a dedicated television program to America's most wanted and I don't is that where they lost their way I mean maybe these are all from the early 2000s when did that stop Robert William Fisher this guy definitely's in Mexico right now. Violent crimes, murders. Yeah. Call me crazy. I don't think we should want our most wanted knowing they're the most wanted.

Ooh. Don't give them the credit they want. I want to lull them into a false sense of security. Wait till they fuck up and then we'll snatch them. Who's the guy who got the least wanted? We've given up on these. Well, remember, these used to be guys like Whitey Bulger. There was that other, the terrorist who was on there.

I think yeah it was bin Laden like number one for a while yeah like I I think we made a pretty big deal of it was a whole thing yeah I know like tiger in the 2000 that guy I know he actually had been rotten on the list and then there was the other ISIS guy who was on there for a while who also got shot why isn't coney on this all bag daddy what yeah al bag daddy yeah we killed his ass see you later bitch the people on the violent crimes oh bad daddy not billy because billy left when i said that yeah i thought you were talking to will as well no no no no abu bocker

billy's a big al back daddy fan he got you get triggered oh really yeah all right uh i think that that's probably it for today on macrodosing i almost call it nanodosing um we have a great interview coming up Yes, we got a good interview, so let's get to this interview with former FBI agent and also a guy that is producing and starring in a show on Discovery Plus that Aryan's going to watch. Ben Hansen. Before we get to Ben Hansen, I want to talk to you about our good friends over at Manscaped.

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Get 20% off and free shipping with code dose at manscape.com. That's 20% off and free shipping promo code M-Codeose at Manscaped.com. The power of attraction is now in a bottle, thanks to Manscaped. Okay, we now welcome on a very special guest. It is Ben Hansen. Ben Hansen, you can see him on Discovery Plus. shock doc specials alien abduction betty and barney hill and alien abduction Travis walton i think is it fair to say that you're an expert in UFOs are you a ufoologist

um yeah i i would say ufologists i i kind of don't like the word expert because how can you really be an expert in something that you know is so unknown at this point that's a good point So I'd say I'd spent enough time to get college credit for it over the years. That makes me an expert. You get a bachelor's degree in UFOology. You should. I mean, there should be colleges that do that honestly because it's seriously, it's a study of American history goes back at least, you know, to the 30s and 40s.

And there's so much to know, unlike a lot of the other paranormal subjects. So let's get started there because I think we can say that UFOs are really. because unidentified flying objects by their very name have existed. We have seen objects in the sky that we don't know what they are that we've investigated into. But the bigger question is, like, are they, have they been piloted or controlled by people not of this planet? So right off the bat, what, what do you think? Yeah, absolutely. I can't believe people are still, you know, debating this term, you know, UFO and they don't exist.

you're like you're right the term implies it's unidentified and the government has confirmed that they have plenty of cases they can't solve right so who's flying them a lot of people have had experiences where um you know they've come face to face they say i even brought a board communicated with these extraterrestrials i personally have not um although i've had experiences of seeing craft that i think you'd be really difficult to convince me that we're just military. So I think that's where the government is with all this. They're like, look, we have no evidence. It's our adversaries. We have no evidence that it's a black project we're unaware of. So that leaves what they call the other option, the alternative option, right?

It belongs to somebody else. And that's kind of where we're headed right now. I just think they're not willing to come right out and sit. So amongst people that you've spoken with that have seen or been abducted or come face to face with whether they're humanoids or whatever the case may be is the description generally pretty similar of of what these beings look like or does it very wildly like some people say it's little green men other people say it's like human form except taller yes and no so you have a wide variety of descriptions but those descriptions seem to be similar almost like you could categorize them right so The typical what we call Alien Grey, we first started really hearing descriptions of that at about the 60s, you know, you have the Betty Barney Hill case.

And they describe things that then came out with Whitley Streber's book Communion. And that, you know, cover of the book has this, you know, almond-shaped kind of larger head with the black eyes. And so once that's in pop culture, I'm sure some people have been influenced by that. had, you know, wild dreams and stuff, but other people, you know, consistently that this is typical of grays. You have people talking about reptilians, you know, which is like what, you remember the movie signs, you know, that one of like a reptilian-looking creature or arcturians and palladians, which are more like a human, you know, like, or the tall whites. And so I try not to go too far into.

specifying exactly, oh, we know there's this many species or not. I really don't know, but it is interesting that people are having the same patterns. I saw Billy's ears perk up when you said reptilians. He's a big fan of all things reptiles. Billy, I know you got a question from him about that. No, well, actually my question is with these recent reports by the Navy, by the, you know, military, is there any possibility from your research? Because this is what I like to think to sleep well at night that these unidentified objects that are encountering, you know, Air Force pilots reported by commercial pilots. I like to think that they may be U.S. technology that just is being tested out on, you know, how pilots react to it that might be, you know,

used in nuclear defense. And hopefully they're just these legitimate, you know, flying objects that are out of the capabilities that normal people and normal military personnel know and maybe being used hypothetically if there is a nuclear weapon fired at the US because of their advanced technology, who knows where they got it, it might just be like a very advanced nuclear defense system

and just something that can outmaneuver any missile, you know, any plane that we know in the modern conscious of being real. And some of that might be, I mean, you might be right. There were sightings of like the stealth bomber and fighter jets that people thought, well, this is completely, you know, out of this world. And then one of them crashed, you know, and it kind of leaked, you know,

oh, this is our new tech. But I agree with you. Some of it could be the difficulty with explaining all of them that way is that it's not just a new propulsion system. some of this stuff it's not because it's silent it's not because it doesn't make awake it's we're using whole new physics that is thousands of light years ahead uh light years i don't know but you're talking about stuff that can go from the air and go into the water and not make any disturbance in the water in transit or that can jump you know kind of almost like for lack of better term like a portal but i've seen this disappear one way and then up here a month

mile away, you know, and just hop around. The Navy videos themselves, track these things on radar jumping about 60 miles in less than a second. Wow. So if that's our technology, wow, I mean, I want that stuff. We totally dominate the world, you know, for the next several hundred years but then you couple in with that people who have alleged these abductions and actually interacted with with beings on these craft that appear some of them like human and some not at all yeah i feel like you know and so yeah if that technology existed i'm pretty sure that some billionaire would have gotten their hands on it and we'd be able to fly from new york to Los Angeles in 15 seconds.

I wouldn't be stuck in a plane for, you know, seven hours like a schmuck. So you were talking about the abductions and it's part of the, it's part of the series that's on Discovery Plus, right? Yeah, yeah. So they typically will air this on Discovery Plus, a streaming app and then, you know, several months or sometimes like a year later, it goes on a travel channel on the linear broadcast. So the people who don't have the app can still watch it.

it's just that the streaming gets it first and the 18th which is Friday I believe is when both of these docs will start streaming and it was a whole lot of fun to make okay so let's talk about the case of Betty and Barney Hill because that one seems pretty interesting to me you've got you've done a lot of research on it you spoke with a lot of parties involved give us a little bit of background as to what happened to Betty Hill so it was in September, and this couple decided to take a trip up to Canada. Barney, African-American works for the post office, Betty, a white suburban New Hampshire, a woman who is a social worker. And they are heavily involved in the civil rights movement at the time, which is important.

they weren't the type of couple they were in the news for being in the civil rights movement they don't attract anything that would distract from that message right so you wouldn't want to come out and claim that by aliens it doesn't really help when you're already in the public and so they they take this trip they're on their home it just crossed over the border on the way home, trying to get back to New Hampshire, and they witnessed a light. And light they thought at first was satellites were brandy at the time, thought it was a satellite or something. It gets brighter and brighter. They're pretty much the only car on the highway up there in the White Mountains. And they get really curious about it because it seems pacing the car.

So at one point they pull over and Barney takes out some binoculars to look at this thing. he's able to cross the street and see the highway where this thing hundreds of yards from them and sees occupants looking out the window at him and they're like you know doing something with buttons like the control panel and he's freaking out freaks out jumps back in the car and they hear a series of beeps I don't know what that's about and all of a sudden they hear beeping again but they're 30 miles roughly away from where they thought they were. And they got home several hours later and, you know, it was really bothersome to them. So the rest of the story is how they get connected

with someone who takes them into regression, hypnosis. And they have very similar experiences on board a ship and being examined. And some of it's really horrifying. And And some of it is, they've come to terms with it. But the thing that's, I think most, I think important about the evidencing of the case is that we do have some physical, you know, supporting evidence of Betty's dress that she kept for all these years. And we, we did some testing on the dress and things that she alleged happened. And you have their stories and polygraphs and things that they'd taken.

And so this is the first time anyone. had really come forward with a story that was like mass media about an abduction and uh so it it's on a case that that was absolutely just awesome to do and and i uh i think the uh the documentary will surprise a lot of people all right i saw the look on arian's face while you were explaining that i think arian are you going to call cap arian are we capping hello man i don't i'd never knock anybody's experienced that may be what they experienced but sound like a lot of cat man i don't know what i'm sorry well i will say the the main uh the the contrast story to this and the skeptics what they say and they have a valid reason to ask this is how much of that could have been a surreal dream perhaps

you know that maybe betty was dreaming and that barney was picking up on her talking or talking about her dream and then he had a dream but as you watch a documentary i think you'll see that first of all skeptics have to they got to basically call this couple liars which they're so totally credible in the community have nothing to gain from this with their experience of what they saw of the craft being awake right what happens in the regression hypnosis, the accuracy of that, hypnosis is not 100%, you know, like truth of the fact that they remembered the same details without having they recalled. You know, so I think as you see it, but at least leave you wondering, you know, like, wow, you know, what, you know, what really happened here. Yeah. So what is regression hypnosis? Because that's, when I heard you mention that, I was like, wait a second. So they're, they're retroactively remembering things after the fact when somebody else was doing something to their state of consciousness.

Yeah. So it's a tool. You know, we use it in law enforcement still. It's like, suppose you witness a crime. Well, it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily make you remember things that weren't there before. brain is a it's like a computer with a a body camera you know recording 24-7 if you consciously saw or paid attention to any detail anytime in your life it's there stored in your brain the problem is you know like we have to be in a certain state to access those five so hypnosis can help you get to a state activates the part of your brain that's sort of like a filter and allows you to more clearly see and remember the details so and um yeah Yeah, that's how it was pulled out. All right.

So I've learned how to play craps probably five times in my life. Each time I've been intoxicated. I'll put it that way. And I've had a great time while I play it, but I don't know how to play craps. I have to be retaught every single time. Are you saying that like somewhere in my brain, if you put me in an FBI field office with some experts,

they could actually extract those memories from my brain and teach me how. Probably good. Probably good. If you've ever been to like a hypnotist show, what's really awesome is that people can sing songs that like I can't, I don't know the lyrics to some songs like maybe a couple like all the way through, but you could you could tell somebody, uh, seeing me staying alive and you know this person, you know, hasn't memorized a song like this. And all of a sudden they, you know, perfect recollection of the whole song, you know. And so it's really amazing to see how it can work like that. that or to play craps and you're totally be a pro at it. I would love to get that extracted for a break. Cole, you got any questions? Well, one, I think it would probably just be easier to teach you craps again.

Well, yeah, there's been studies that have come out that people can be convinced of memories that they didn't actually have. They'll feel very real. They'll convince themselves that they were at a place and have seen things that they never actually experienced at all. like people commit to crimes just because they've been convinced they were, uh, they committed them. So what's the difference between that and was regressive therapy? Is that what it was called? Well, I mean, they did go there for, for therapy. Yes. And you're right. We have to be

careful because, uh, it takes a real professional not to lead people. Right. And, you know, I investigate a lot of child sex crimes. Um, we didn't use hypnosis for this because it's not really admissible, you know, in that sense. It's a tool, though. It's a tool that can bring things out and help the investigator look at other stuff. So we really like it when we have that recollection, but then we also have physical evidence and the events surrounding it is support what they said. Gotcha. You know, so for example, I don't want to give everything away here, but Betty remembers having a needle inserted in the navel, a long needle, very painful, and she was told they were doing a pregnancy test of some sort. Okay, so she took that dress that she wore, put it in her closet,

never touched it again. And I was able to go back where the dress has kept it in Newshire University and use a black light, and I found stains on the inside of the dress in that location that we had tested, right? So when you put all these little pieces together, and it seems to support what they were saying, you know, and they recollect, it's like science all the time. We're not looking for definitive. We're looking for probability percentages that something more likely happened than not. But you're absolutely right. People can have false memories. And I encounter people all the time that have a weird dream because they ate a burrito or something, you know, late at night and they're like, I know I was taken and I'm like, okay, well, you know, let's see

what we're working with here. Is there anything else that would corroborate that you actually were taken? You know, so we just everything just because someone had a surreal dream. Yeah, I was more, I was more curious about the general tactic versus this specific case like this. Has it been ruled out since it was New Hampshire and they were so prominent in civil rights that this was the clan um that was brought up yeah that's actually one of the theories that uh someone was messing with them um trying to dissuade them from what they were doing and in their work um first of all it would be like a very complex hoax to how how would they get something in the sky and then have this massive craft come down and actually pretty much land on the ground like a

you know kind of a ramp came down um seems really unlikely but um you know like it i think when you get into the history of it it does um it actually helped space because of that because they're i love reluctant witnesses those who do not want to come forward and tell their story and that was the couple did tell a few people they talked to their church group but they did not want to come out and have this like worldwide attention to it. So would it be possible that this could be some sort of MK Ultra type event where they may have been dosed with a hallucinogen and then that aided whoever was trying to sort of abduct them and mess with them and try to steer them away from what they were working on?

Was that, is there any sort of possibility in that realm? I haven't heard that, you know, that lead, you know, followed very quickly. closely. I would think, you know, I don't know, I mean, depending on the hallucinogen, probably wouldn't be safe for them driving and them getting home as well. But yeah, I mean, anything is possible to throw out there. The thing with these two documentaries, though, what you see is that they go into the theories that skeptics proposed. And sometimes, like in an example of like Travis Walton, the skeptics, the debunkers became so exaggerated it claims that it's far more likely that aliens did come than the planet Jupiter was mistaken,

you know, for like a third foot craft that's literally like 70 feet from you. Oh, that's the planet Jupiter. You know, and all you seven are idiots for thinking, you know, that it's a UFO. So it's to that point, you have to weigh like what it, what really is more likely. So to kind of follow up on what Billy said there. Now, you are a former FBI agent, right? I am. Yeah. I spent some time with them after working for the state doing child sex training. Gotcha. Investigating. So, so this is probably pretty, yeah, good point, good clarification. We will not pull that into a quote card and put that out on the internet for you. But to Billy's point, there were a lot of, there was a lot of interference in the civil rights movement from the FBI back in the 1960s.

And it would seem like it doesn't sound like it would be too far out of the realm of possibility that the FBI would look to discredit somebody that is heavily invested or a public figure in the civil rights voting platform back then. I feel like, you know, not to put you on the spot and ask you what the FBI did because obviously you were not, you were not part of the team back in the 1960s. But I feel like that that's something that's worth following up on, you know, giving somebody some sort of temporary hallucinogen. And then implanting those memories via, you know, whether it's hypnosis or or something else, it doesn't sound that far afield of what the FBI and the CIA were actually capable of doing and doing back in the 1960s. Well, I will, I will admit there have been programs, there have been nefarious things from different agencies that have done stuff similar to that.

I know that capabilities of what someone might be able to do, like when you actually get to work for the federal government. You're like, there's so much, like, red tape and so many people that would say things. And look at what happened with the CIA when they cracked down on them. And we're not going to be doing this, this and this. And they turned over the rocks to look underneath to see what they had been doing. I personally think if there's something that was that extent, those things probably would have come out by now. But again, we look at the complexity of something to pull that off.

Now, if an agency happened to opportunistically hear about a couple who's claiming this stuff and they wanted to discredit, then they'd probably just sit back and say, well, we don't have to do anything. You know, this is writing itself. Who's going to believe what they're doing now when they're coming out talking about an alien abduction, right? So I think that's probably far more likely than getting involved in trying to help that. because also they didn't seek nobody came to them and said let me regress you they sought out the help

so it was them going to a doctor because barney was having physiological symptoms severe pain abdominal pain and problems and sickness you know that was anxieties nightmares they were they were the ones who sought out help and that were referred by their physician to the psychiatrist. So what got you interested in UFOology? What got you going down this rabbit hole of saying, you know what, I'm going to investigate all these potential alien encounters? Well, I would say that, like, I'd always been interested since I was a kid because of movies,

maybe, you know, like the fascination with it. But most people, you know, can't put aside their day job. I still work in different things, but like, unless you're writing books or doing movies, these like nobody gets paid to show up and investigate a UFO you know and so i got really lucky um with the sci-fi channel to start creating a tv show and i'm like wow okay so now i can go out and and actually make a living doing this and and talking to people these iconic cases um and so it allowed me more freedom to do that which i feel really lucky to do big t you have any questions yeah so that was kind of what i wanted i was going to ask

if this is something you'd always been into or if working at the FBI maybe found something out that made you interested in doing that. But also, so I think this is complete bullshit. So I'd like to know what someone who thinks this is totally just abject nonsense, what the most compelling piece of evidence you've ever found is that you would say to someone like that. Sure. And I don't mind that. I appreciate your, uh, your, your, uh, your, your, your, uh, your, your, honesty there. No problem. I would say when you have your own personal experience, if you have an open mind not to just dismiss it, I've had very compelling sightings myself. And again, I didn't see the pilots. I don't know who was flying them. But to me, I did already have an open mind

that this was going on, but it was like the affirmation. Now, if you want to go look at other people's cases, I think the Travis Walton case, and just really quickly, that summarizing you had seven logging crew members who were in Arizona in 1975. And luckily, they had other witnesses there. They all saw this thing come down. They all pass multiple polygraphs. And so you have to say, well, if you trust the polygraph at all, and it's not 100% accurate. But if you were to take mathematically from times that it was passed and how many people passed it, you have a one in millions or billions chance that they're lying about the critical questions. You know, did you see a UFO?

Did your friend get struck by this light? And he was gone for five days, right? And so then we learned from what happened inside of the craft, you know, from travel and what he recollects, which is really in about two and a half hours. and so I think that's probably the the best evidence as far as the abduction scenarios but if you want evidence of craft defying our physics

just look at what the government's releasing every single week this stuff that's coming out is building a case that like this is not ours you know then then we also have a co-worker who was at the Ariel school in the Zimbabwe UFO incident

oh wow Yeah. So we, you know, some of us have been in close contact with someone who's actually seen these encounters. So there's more believers in the room than you think. But on the top of UFOs, looking into your background, you're extremely accomplished and, you know, just reading your biography, sea airplane pilot, amateur radio operator, licensed falconer, which I'd like to touch on in a second, certified scuba diver, hang glider, EMT, search and rescue dog. Handler and Eagle Scout, licensed falconer. Now, I've always been fascinated. What? Keep going. I've been fascinated in falconry for a long time. And this is the first time I've

probably ever had a conversation with a licensed falconer. I just want to know, like, what's your experience, what type of falcons you use. What exactly? It depends on the state that you're in, but there's a federal license you need to get. And then each state has a state license. and so what you do is you go find some of there's clubs around you go find someone who will become your you're an apprentice and you find someone who's a master falconer and you get a license and you can go out and actually build a little trap and trap your first bird and it's it's awesome it's it's really geeky okay as i was a kid like i couldn't tell anyone i was doing they're like what you have a falcon and you know but it's cool to build the trap put a little mouse in there

and then you find one of these birds flying around you throw the trap outside your corridor and drive away and they come down and they get caught in the little nooses on the top of it and you take the thing home uh you all night with it you feed it mice you get it used to you being the person who's providing the food and then you start doing the training you know um so these are wild caught so these falcons are wild caught huh you start out yeah you start with wild caught ones if you get up to the next levels, you can actually get permits to go get eggs or buy them privately and raise them from babies. But what's really cool is just be part of that whole nature experience. Like, you can take the bird out and let's say you want a rabbit to eat, throw the bird in the air,

circles around, comes down, grabs a rabbit, and then you get to cook it up. You know, so it's just kind of a cool way to be part of nature and see how it works. I had no idea that's how you, like you have to trap your first falcon like that's that's every person's entrance into falconry i didn't know it involved a car like you throw you throw the cage out of the car and then you drive away you do and then you got your binoculars and you're watching as the bird comes down on it and when it gets its feet and the talons caught the news you're like okay i got a bird the strangest thing is i took my sister with me and the first one i caught and this is literally what you do panty hose are a great way to put the bird in the thing because it keeps them calm so when you

the bird you stuff it in some panty hose and take it off what what level of falconry do you have to be to get those tiny hoods that you put on their heads oh right away you start with your first book you got to make them you make the hood yourself you make the jessies which are the the ankle braces and the leather straps it's it's a king sport right and it's like the kings used to do this and the art of making your your perch and all that stuff is like if you go to a renaissance you might see some of these people there because they're like I don't larp I don't do any of that but it's kind of cool to be part of something that's you know thousands of years old and how long does it take the bird to trust you as you're feeding it and how nerve-wracking is that first night I was up pretty late

and the bird wants to go to steep it's like this and you keep the bird awake because it fears you and it's got to have it's got to learn to trust you so you can have a bird well on its way in training within a couple of weeks to fly to you and then you know in the next coming month that's when you go outside and you're able to let it go and it'll still come back don't you ever feel like a little bit guilty like does this bird's family miss it it has free food it knows it's always going to get fed and so that the food's pretty easy for it yeah gotcha other question so have you ever done any falconry in the middle east and like i know in mongolia on the step-aes they actually use eagles to hunt wolves

and if you never heard that with wolves but no i'd never never been to the middle east to do the falconry but but you know that'd be kind of cool to get rid of some of these coyotes here in california just throw it up in your yard and like go get one you know yeah uh so so back to ufo's real quick we can circle back to falconry if billy has any follow-up questions but are the men in black real um if you're talking about you know the will smith movie and stuff not like that no but there is a basis of of fact that started at least as far back as the 40 where we do know and it's verified military members sometimes not announcing themselves of different agencies who they work for typically would show up in black suits and threaten people this was a time when they

thought the panic of stories getting out would cause everyone to freak out and so i think it was more to protect not even necessarily all the time the secrets of what they saw but to dissuade people so there wasn't panic but they would threaten in the roswell incident um a child, I think five or six years old, if that she'd be taken to the desert, separated from her family and killed. And so it is a little thing. I don't think that there's really probably an agency around

war that goes around and does that, but your stories. That sounds like a yes, honestly. Like the way you just described it, that's, yeah, they don't have the little stick that they flash in your face

and make you forget how to play crap. that you learned the night before but it does sound like everything else is like yes there are men in black yeah and when you talk yeah um i would say i don't know if there's one agency i mean people want to say you know there's got to be one agency i don't know that that's the case i think every agency has covert um operating teams you know um that they go and do things without having to announce who they are definitely when you talk about like the fear even dating all the way back then and then I hear you talk about every week they're releasing new information about sightings. Is there a possibility that they're releasing that?

And then you see videos of extremely intricate and advanced aircrafts coming out of China. Could there be like fear propaganda working together in those two pieces of information? You know, that's one of the theories is that we need to assess the, agendas of government agencies because if they did have knowledge of this and were able to use it, you know, to make people comply with certain things or fake, let's say, an alien landing. If we had that technology to fake it, you know, and to put people into fear that it's a legit theory that needs exploring. But I think if you're following what they're releasing right now, Russia's doing it too. Russia is opening their files and saying, you remember when you thought

this was us in the 60s, we were baffled. It wasn't us. We thought it was you. And so I think there's more transparency there. Yeah, I noticed that in the United States, a lot of these sightings have come from places that are nearby, either army bases or places that have conducted nuclear tests. And I was curious on a worldwide level, does that also hold true? And you know, the former USSR, in other countries, you know, North Korea, other countries that have established atomic weapons. Has that been something that you've seen worldwide? Yeah, absolutely. We've seen it in European theaters. We saw it, you know, the foo fighters, they were called in World War II. We saw it in Vietnam. We saw it in Iraq. The Iranian

military has stories of sightings around their facilities as well. And, it continues you know shutting down nukes we're not able to launch them it's really concerning and i think that's why it is a national security problem is because regardless of who they are they're flying you know at their own will and we're not able to do anything with it so hey guys i've got i've got to i've got to run we're actually filming here in my office today um so i got a bug out here in just a second but got you all right we'll let you head out that was ben hanson ben thank you for joining us you can watch the shock doc specials alien abduction betty and barney hill and alien abduction

Travis walton on this discovery plus streaming service and then on the travel channel afterwards thank you for joining you so much guys do fun all right take care man all right we'll see it bye bill you'll have to ask falconry questions to somebody else I have so many more questions I know he's a no why weren't we getting into he's a he's the head of prepper con the largest disaster prepared to survival consumer expo in the country oh shit i wish i had known that because i i need to ask him about where the fuck my doomsday bucket is exactly a lot of competition in that market too that's a real there really is that's the number one and that's a real instructor we'll have to get him back on the show to talk about prepping yeah that's

actually an entire episode right there yeah 100% i think i don't think he has to film today i'm not calling our pal the liar here but i think i think we were hot on the case or something and he had to he had to split yeah the falconers yeah i think i think maybe like when you start to be like yeah i was in the fbi and now um i'm working to prove that this mysterious occurrence that happened to civil rights workers that were working on voting registration was actually aliens that set up a couple red flags for me right off the bat big time and also i know the big t wanted to ask about what happened to the hillary clinton server I did not want to

I did have some questions about what the craziest thing the Clint's asked him to do was but you know you're not going to get a real answer on that anyway we should just get various former FBI CIA agents on here and just pepper them someone's gonna break

yeah let's get peanut Tillman on the show yeah I ain't gonna lie brer when y'all told me we had an ex-fbi agent I thought it was like a real one like I'm not saying I'm not saying I'm not saying I'm not saying he wasn't real. I'm just saying when I hop going, we talk about UFOs and shit.

All the research I did was not for that shit. I fucked up. I dropped the ball on that. That was my fault. No, it's okay. No worries. It sounds like an interesting show. I mean, there's two cases that he worked on are two of the most famous alleged abductions by aliens. I just can't watch them shit no more because I used to be

hella into it. And then like, except for this one, what you're going to watch on Discovery Plus. Yeah, I agree. But I guarantee, I guarantee, bro. you'll watch like 12 episodes and at the end there's just no fucking real evidence there's nothing there's never anything it's just a whole bunch of cool graphics or maybe not maybe bad at graphics

bad at the best reenactments the reenactments be trashed like I don't know man I don't know maybe I'm just cynical yeah I know actually I mean I thought a lot of it like it's very I mean how we talked about you know the moon the moon landing how maybe like Neil Armstrong

and Buzz Aldrin definitely think they went to the moon like in my head i'm like you could trick people give them lSD put them in random places and make them think they actually went to the moon or be abducted hold on have you ever done lSD billy no i need you to stop talking with such authority on how what lsd does to people then i don't know some hallucinogen i mean the mk ultra stuff i mean whatever they're dosing people with it didn't work that was the whole point but i think i think you could like trick people by giving them some sort of drugs yeah uh i think it's a possible it's a possibility but you really think that they didn't go where do you think that they went really so do you think that

i'm just took them up in an airplane and then just landed them somewhere else and turned off all the lights and they're like you're on the moon now to billy's credit you could definitely give someone lsd they could travel 30 miles and not know how they got there that part's true you would you could look up see a very bright jupiter and it could appear to be closer than it is that's also true i didn't hate your mk ultra point but when you're talking about like convincing like you're not your brain doesn't shut off also like you can but people are on at last day and live perfectly normal lives i have no idea but have you has anyone ever been to escape room oh i'm a nigger that's all i do like oh my promise like you yeah we should do an escape room

Your brain is an escape, bro. I'm so, I'm so, I'm broke. I kick it out. I'm talking about, I know, no, every, I can't even, I don't, I think I've been to every one in Houston, every single one, right? Aren't they freaking real? Like, imagine if you were in a little of a weird state and some of the escape rooms are space theme.

You could like, you know, with the addition of like 4D rides, trick someone into thinking they're in totally different places. Like if it's a UFO, like, you know. operation room. Aaron, have you ever felt like you've been... He lost me right there. In a UFO when you're doing an escape room in downtown Houston. No, no, they're pretty, they're pretty, uh, strict on the rules, too.

Like, don't touch the walls that, don't touch shit that doesn't move. You'll break it. Like, it's not that, I guess, I would not go check anybody. Look at the story. I'm trying to escape a room. I'm touching the fucking walls. I don't know what I'm saying. There was a Netflix documentary on a guy who convinced,

a girl he abducted that he was an alien. It's not the crazy, let me look at him. Are you trying to convince us? Are you trying to convince us? Are you trying to explain to us that you believe that it's possible that they can trick somebody into believing that they landed on the moon? Like scientists, like people who study this. We could convince people, not like smart people.

I think if you gave them enough like disorienting. like drugs definitely so there's this there is this um disorienting drug what kind of what kind of what kind of I don't know I don't know the exact compounds but

well I'm not I'm not asking to break down the case of Jan yeah you know the you know the abducted in plain site documentary on Netflix I think yeah I don't but I'm going to watch it as soon as you watch ready player one fucked up

yeah this guy oh wait no I did watch that actually yeah he convinces the that he's an alien in like like it's not that hard to gaslight someone into thinking that they're doing different things like even though it's a child was this yeah was this girl a NASA scientist no but I'm saying I'm talking like for example if you took to let's look it let's look at not to describe them but Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong their background was in you know their air force pilots who progressed enough in operating technology

in order to be thought to be capable enough to operate a aircraft to the moon their whole you know they're not exactly calm this is going to wrong this is going to be i'm just i'm not dumbed them down but you could he he was an aeronautical engineer like it's hot yeah Like you're, you're highly discrediting what my guy did, though. Like, you feel me? Here's the question. They were pilots that kind of, you know, climbed the ranks in NASA. My joystick.

They played some attire. Some of us are being, you know, tricked as we speak and they have no idea. Are you really in the Grand Canyon right now, bro? Really, answer this question, truthfully. Do you think you're smarter than Buzz Aldrin? Yes or no. No. No.

I don't know that I do you. I don't think I'm smart than Buzz Aldrin. I think he has way more. But the perception, like, he's overrated. No,

remember everything in this era. Couldn't play in this era. No, I'm not saying. He was known against farmers. Billy, listen, listen. Like, think about it.

We're not, you can't call, you can't say somebody to say, though that sounds wild, close-minded. You're trying to convince us that it's possible to trick

mad NASA's, scientists, engineers, and it's not just them you got to trick. You got to trick an entire space station on the ground floor. You got to, you got to trick an entire globe, right? You got to, it's hundreds of thousands of people that are scientists. This is what you're trying to convince us, my G, and you're calling us close on it. That's, that's the only specification I'm saying is if it was fake, that is how they'd have to trick Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong. That's no, no, no. No, what I'm saying is they'd have to trick everybody at NASA. They'd have to trick the entirety of the the the Russian scientists because we were in a cold war right like they would they was double checking our work they would have to they would have to convince the Chinese uh scientists this would be a global I'm just saying if it's like one of those things like OJ like if I had done it if they did do it that's what they would have to do so yeah this is Aaron brings up a good point which is not only are you tricking thousands of people you're tricking thousands of objectively the smartest people in the world all at the same time I'm

I have full belief that the U.S. got from moon because I, like, have belief in, you know, American exceptionalism. I think it would probably be easier, Billy, if they wanted to fake it, it would probably be easier to just be like, hey, Buzz, Neil, here's $50 million each. We're going to go out to Nevada and we're going to put you on a sound stage and just shut the fuck up for the rest of your life about it. That would be easier to do than it would be to, like, have to trick everybody into going to a place that they know that we can't get to. Also, what would be the point of the years and years of training that went into it, where they're doing these sophisticated rocket launches? All part of the ruse, PFT. Yeah.

I'm just saying, you know, I'm saying basically I'm entertaining the people who think it's fake and then being like, okay, if it's fake, this is what would have to happen. Those Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong, I believe, are honest men. They don't fight people in the streets because they, you know, think. And if they have $50 million to silence money, they're rolling with security all the time. That's my only point. Okay. Because I believe the U.S. definitely won the space race because, you know, but if it, I'm just entertaining it.

I'm providing a possible scenario. Okay. Thank you, Billy. That was Billy's corner. That was Billy's what if. I think that should be a recurring segment on the show, just like, what if with Billy football? I'm not saying it happened, but. I'm entertaining a hypothetical.

What if O.J. I'm entertaining it too but it makes no fucking sense like whatsoever like I entertained it and also when you're pushing back that's no longer you entertaining it that's you believing in it he's defending his thesis that he doesn't yeah and you get a whole bunch of people in my you're so fucking close-minded man like no bro like that don't make no fucking sense and you even agree with it i just don't go along with it and now I'm the closed-minded one. What the fuck?

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wednesday again and then drop it whenever we're done that's also our first birthday and it's our first. Wow. We made it a year. And this is episode 50. Holy shit. Holy shit is right. That's like yeah, that's like 200 in podcast years. I think Big Tisha smoke a joint in honor of our first birthday. That's not going to happen. You know it's legal recreational in here. There's a lot of shit that's legal that I don't want to do. Okay. One day. How many, wait, how many more subscribers do we have to get on YouTube to get Big Tee? We have 16,000 right now. All right. So,

subscribe on YouTube. We're actually putting these out really quickly. Thank you guys for editing. And the nanodosings are out on YouTube all the time now too. Perfect. So, yeah, subscribe there. And we will see you guys next week. Next Wednesday slash Thursday is when the next one's going to come out. And then we'll get back on our unusual schedule of Monday record Tuesday release after that. Last couple weeks have been hectic due to travel. That's going to change. Get back to normal. We'll see you guys then. Love you guys. Hmm. Hmm.

Thank you. We're going to do. You know what I'm going to be.