Macrodosing: Arian Foster and PFT Commenter - Guns & Violence ft. Alina Burroughs | NANODOSE

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

On today's episode of Nanodosing, the entire crew is back in studio with special guest Alina Burroughs to talk about her upcoming special on the Idaho Murders (1:30:00). You'll hear all the up to date inside info on the case. You don't want to miss a second of it. All of this and so much more on the show. Make sure to tune into MACRODOSING, every Thursday 12am EST.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/macrodosing

Hey, macrodosing listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Welcome back to nanodosing. It is Tuesday. It's March 7th. And as always, the show is brought to by Three-Chi. Three-Chi is the presenting sponsor of Macro-Dosing podcast and nanodosing. And is it also micro-dosing?

Extra-dosing? Extra-dosing? Yes. Okay. There we go. Three-Chi is a great product. three chi like i like i like taking some three chi at night before i go to bed maybe if i'm watching some movies erin you like three chi as well three chee is wonderful and of all things in life one of the

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Must be 21 or older to purchase 3Chi. Please use it responsibly, 15% off by going to 3Chi.com using the promo code macro 15 and get 15% off that order. Okay, we're back on nano dosing Ariens in studio today. I was handing. Ariens here all week, or at least through Wednesday. Yeah, I leave on Wednesday. You got in last night.

I did get in last night. How is the flight? anxiety free let's go okay progress found was i've i've i've completely changed my diet going back to like you know what made me really good at football uh ate clean the last three four weeks worked out almost every day no light workout i ain't doing the shit i used to do but uh it's just light workout drinking a lot of water no alcohol no caffeine cut all that shit out heart palpitations have subsided. I feel stress-free.

Anxiety has left for the majority of it. Good clean living. Good clean living, man. Cleaning up my nightlife. That's good. Now, I agree that exercise really helps with anxiety. You know, it's the last thing that you want to do sometimes when you're feeling really anxious is get up and, like, go for a run, go to the gym.

But if you do it consistently, it does make the rest of your day so much better. Golfing, man. There you go. Golfing has saved me. Being outside. Yeah, you get to be outside, you get to walk a little bit. I mean, when you walk, of course, it's like six plus miles. Yeah.

And ain't no light, you know what I mean? So it's just a cool, easy way to, you know, burn some calories because it just feels good, too. Yeah, and you get the vitamin D from the sun while you're out there. Yeah. Yeah, it is good exercise. Now, when I go golfing, I usually just use a cart and then I drink a lot of beer, so that kind of defeats most of it. But the way you're doing it, it's good, it's good way. plus I'm getting nice

like I said the other day I hit two birdies I'm just getting to that point where it's like I can I can score my shots are starting to get to the point where it's like I can direct them where I want to go

if I if they don't it's it's not supposed to go that because usually when I first started it was like if I hit a good shot I'm hype if it goes if it flies I'm hype if I don't top it I'm hype now it's like I can start

to kind of direct them and I feel like in the next three four months man I'm going to start being mid to low 80s. Let's go. Let's go. I went to the range last. I got it.

I'm podcasting through a golfing injury. You see that? Yeah. See that blister? Hold on that. You're too tight, bro. It's gnarly.

Well, I'm also not very good, so that might have something. Does anybody wear two gloves? Like Teddy Bridgewater? There was one guy. They called him Tommy two gloves, but I don't think it was that good.

Well, I'm not that good either. So maybe I'll, maybe I'll bring back a two more. You just don't hold of that. You're not supposed to. That's part of it, actually. I also.

hit probably, I don't know, 150, 200 balls yesterday. Oh, though, yeah. So, dedication. That might have something to do with it. I asked you if I wanted to bring the clubs. We didn't have to go to a course. We can go to the driving range or something. Yeah, we could go to the driving range for sure.

There's also, there's a place around here where you can do the simulator inside, but I think that they, I think that they goose those numbers. I think that they tell you that you're hitting it way further. If they have a track man, it's accurate. It is? Yeah, those track man are like 20 racks, though, so I don't know if a company is going to invest in that shit. I think they might have a trackman at this place.

Track man that are very accurate. All right. All right. We might have to hit up the simulator or maybe the driving range at some point this week. Also, we got a ton of more of YouTube content coming. So we got some plans for that. Stay tuned. So smash that subscribe button.

What disease do you have, man? Let's get into that. Okay, yeah. It's rather shocking. You know that we thought that you were lying about this. Do you know that I podcasted that whole day on Tuesday, that very long day? Turns out I was having an allergic reaction of sometimes the whole time. the whole time. No, no, it's an allergic reaction. It's funny. I walked in the studio today and the first thing that I heard was Billy going, I'm not contagious. That's always a nice way to start your day. So I still don't 100% know what's going on. But basically, I had to go to the ER after that recording. I went to the city MD and I was like, can you guys give me some like across the street that closed at 8. Yeah. You can check. So that's why I had to leave. And then they told me they're like, yo. Let's be fair though, Billy. That's not the ER.

no no they the city md then sent me to the er oh really yeah they were like we can't deal with this this is like so have you shown him your back today no show me your back you got you got to you can we get really not that camera on close i don't want to show my back just oh no show me you're back in that chair show pft you're back oh wow is that gross that constellation on his bag yeah i didn't fucking with them dogs and no it wasn't that it was that yes it is bro I'll tell you the whole story. You say you don't know what it is. How you know what it is?

Well, I have an idea of what it is. Okay. What if you're allergic to dogs? No, I'm not. I love that. Basically, after. I'll take whitey. Like basically on Wednesday, I was just cleaning everything because I was like, oh, there's fleas, right?

But so basically where I live, there was a water main break. And there was a boil water in effect. So either my drinking of that water or this. So my sheets. which I thought how I got the fleas that I just brought back from the washing laundromat. Either the laundromat put stuff in it so because they wanted to make sure the water was extra clean. So they like put a ton more bleach or a ton more stuff. Wait, I'm going to do some CSI shit on you right now.

Yeah. Some investigation work. You're saying that you got the rash from the sheets that you washed because you thought the, sheets had fleas on them right so I'm putting together the timeline real quick yeah you got the rash before you took the sheets to the laundromat uh yes but okay but so I actually I washed my sheets over the weekend when there was the boil water in effect and then you washed them again I washed them again which then compounded two nights of when I thought because I was kind of thinking I was going to be able I took

I took my, then, I took my dog to the groomers, because I've never taken him to the groomers. He doesn't need, like, he doesn't have fancy hair or anything. First time at the groomers, I got to call 20 minutes after dropping him off. The groomer's like, this dog doesn't have fleets. Why would you take your dog to a drag brunch? That was funny. Yeah. That's just a little timely.

That's just a little topical humor right there. He already got neutered. I don't actually believe that drag brunches groomed children. But so then I'm like, what the fuck? fuck so i was sitting here i don't know what it is i think it was the detergent or something or just from drinking the water because i definitely did drink some of water while the boil water in effect was going on did you know that before no i didn't i woke up uh throat's fine but like it's definitely contact of some sort because like where i'm getting and then how i figured out is i

picked up my laundry and i put on a clean pair of underwear and then the rash after going to the ER, the rash came back only where the underwear was. So on your dick? And ass. And ass. It's where the underwear All right. So it's a big mystery. So it's me being too clean. Yeah, that's the problem. I

It's just something with the dirty water. But like I went to the ER. I took my shoes off because they were itching as fuck. It looked like you were going to get your leg amputated. Yeah. It swole up to the side. Like my right foot was just gigantic. Has it gotten any better?

Yes. It's gone down. So basically I went there. By the way, the bill is definitely fucking suck. But never mind. But like I want to talk about Toridol. Because that shit fucking works. Yeah, real quick. I'm looking at these bleach allergic reaction pictures. I'm not a doctor. So I had, does it not look like what Billy has? Nah, this looks more rashy. That looks more like. Constellation-y. I got to tell you that. But it's gone down a good bit since it happened. You got pictures of the Inception. Yes. Does Billy have cordyceps? Yeah, Billy's infected.

Billy's going to turn his little clicker. Yeah. That's scary. It was actually, it was like, I still don't know what I'm allergic to and what sucks. Do an allergen test. Well, but you can't, like you need to wait like a week after having any antihistamines. So it wasn't fleas, which is kind of good, but it would have been easier to figure out. I might say it kind of good.

That one that's on your arm right there, that I can see. That's a perfect circle. I know. It's not ringworm. It's not ringworm. I'm not dabbing you up. I was in the ER. They were like, it's an allergic reaction.

Don't know what it was. But I had to say I podcast that whole day, like having hives allergic reaction and like low-key throat was closing up a little bit. As your flukegum. Thank you to Billy. It was like, so you were talking about your podcasting injury. I was itching my ass off. You see the size of this.

Glister. Do you know how much Benadry? Oh, I saw the Hatman too. They gave me Benadryl, like a ton of Benadryl and the Torval. The Hatman. The Hatman, you guys have never heard of the Hatman? No. No, like, it's like a...

I assume he sells hats, says. No, it's like when you take Benadryl sometimes and you wake up in the middle of the night and you have, like, and then you see like a figure standing in your doorway. What are you talking about? The Hatman. I Googled the Hatman and it's a TikTok thing, apparently. No, everyone's seen that. Everyone has not seen the hatman.

Like, you know, like, you know when you wake up in the middle of the night? It's kind of like a sleep paralysis demon. So you had a sleep paralysis episode. I've had sleep paralysis before. I don't think I saw the hat man. No, the hat man is like the weird, like thing that you think's in your room when you're, you wake up. So it's like in the yard. I never heard of the hat man.

They hit me with Torridol first in that like, imagine your whole body was like itching and hurting and your foot was swelling at the same time. got the Toradole and it went away like within like 10 minutes and it was the greatest feeling on earth imagine itching all day and like feeling terrible all day and then in 10 minutes it just all dissipates and you feel amazing yeah so uh I have taken Toradoll extensively I attribute my entire career at Torado if it wasn't for Torado I wouldn't play in the half of the games I played It's just a amazing substance if you want to alleviate pain

for a short amount of time. It's not a narcotic so it doesn't leave you all woozy and shit. You don't feel any different mentally? No, not at all. So 2010, I broke my collarbone

against the Cowboys, I think game three. And the next game we played the Raiders, I shot up Torado in my right arm because the whole week I had to carry the ball, like, high and tight because I couldn't, I couldn't, like, extend my arm to run because it was broke.

You could feel it right now, my shit's still broke. Well, the heeled broken. And I shot tore it all up. Every game that year, the rest of that year. But I just couldn't feel that it didn't, it just, there was no pain. That year, you won the Russian title. I did. It was 16,600, 16 rushing yards.

And you had 604 receiving yards, breaking the record set by Priest Holmes for more yards from scrimmage ever by an undrafted player and you went to the Pro Bowl thanks to Torado. Yes, so thank you Torado. And now I'm on this lovely podcast with John.

That's wonderful. Yeah. I wake up and golf every day. Who knows if you would be on macrodosing if it wasn't for Tortoll? There's no telling, man. I don't know. Does that have, like, that sounds like too good to be true. Are there like longs from it? Yeah. Of course. It's horrible for your liver.

It's just like any alcohol stuff like that It's ruined your liver I think kidneys too But it's why it's why it's why it was laughable When the NFL was like cracking down on weed And I'm like yo the shit you pump us with every fucking game to play Is like thousand times worse than weed y'all the other clowns I'm looking at your stats from that year

Week one against the Colts I balled man 3424 you guys won You ran the ball 33 times 2131 yards three touchdowns That's a pretty good game Yeah, I killed. That's really good. 33, can you tell waking up the next day if you carried the ball 33 times?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Especially against, like, a defense. Colts, they were built for Peyton Manning. So they were built for third downs. Yeah, Dwight Freeney, and Robert Mathis. Which I spaced on the name and the trivia that one time, but I got it at the end. But, yeah, so they were built to, like, third down rush, right? They weren't really built to Bob Sanders.

I don't know if you remember him. He was a killer. Yeah. So a team like that, not as stout at Rundee, but I played against the Ravens. I played against Chicago Bears, you know, with Erlack or shit like that. There was a, there was one of the toughest players of her play against was a linebacker, Witherspoon for the Falcons. Sean Wethers, yeah, man, he was a banger, though.

Like, I used to have battles with him. Like that defense, I had like, I had like 31 carries and maybe. I don't know, 90, 100 yards. It wasn't a lot, but it was like one of the most, that shit. You felt that shit. Yeah, I'm looking at these stats. In that loss, you guys lost the Cowboys. We lost a lot that year.

You had 106 yards rushing. That's when you broke your collarbone. And then the very next week against the Raiders, you had 133 yards rushing. Yeah. And I sat the whole first half. And 56 yards receiving. And they sat me the first half. And they sat you the first half.

Because I missed a meeting. Really? Yeah. I got faded one. Thursday, Wednesday night, I got super faded and just didn't wake up, Brad. One of the, one of the dudes, my name, Sean Washington, shout out to Sean Washington. He was knocking on my door at like 8.30. And the meeting was at 8.

He was like, man, he opened the door. I think my door was open. Like in your apartment? Yeah. I was standing in the apartment. I was undrafted. Yeah. And so he knew he went there to find you.

Yeah, they found me. I was like, oh, I thought it was at 9. And you know, you wake up with a shitty excuse. I thought it was in another, brother. Meen been eight for eight years. This is after you broke your collarbone? Yeah. So you got fit, huh?

Yeah. You were entertaining clients that night. I had a lot of clients that were saying. Yeah, that's, no, that's exactly what happened with Billy. He went out on a Wednesday night and then missed a Thursday morning podcast. Damn. We sat him for a half. Well, I didn't actually miss it.

Of a month. I got in from far away. Yeah. If I wasn't bawling that year, I'd have got cut. Billy, what have we talked about about accountability on this show? No, no, I did not make it to the office. Yes, so you did miss it. I did.

But I was on it. You missed? Yeah, so if Zoom had existed, then Arian would have just zoomed in for the meeting for the meeting. But it didn't. And then, all right, so I'm looking at your stats this year. Pretty good. Pretty good year that you put up thanks to the magic of tour at all. That was all pro year.

And they tell you, yeah, that was like pretty good. I'm just saying. Check yourself as all pro. It doesn't get better than the first table. So how many shots are you allowed to take? over the course of a year I don't know I know they started to limit it

when I was exiting I don't know now but I know when I was there I would get sometimes I would get it before the game and then halftime you get two yeah my guess is they probably don't let you do that anymore probably because people started

I mean older cats start to feel the effects of that shit like yeah is it like a contact like wherever you're hurting they just shoot it there yeah yeah like I know because that same year I tore my meniscus in preseason and I played through it and so originally I was taking a tort off of that and so instead of taking it I used to shoot in the in the glute so I used to shoot it in my glute and so instead of that after the cowboy game they started shooting them

damn yeah it works what's better torridol or morphine no tartall just makes pain go away what's more effective I guess it's still morphine it depends on the goal it depends on the goal It sounds like Toradole works really well. Oh, absolutely does. It absolutely does. But morphine works a thousand times better if you want to feel amazing. Torto just makes you feel regular. Right.

And I think that's, I guess that's the thing. Yeah, like I haven't felt regular body since, I don't know, high school. Like, I wake up with pain. Like, I'm just used to pain. That's another reason why I used to drink a lot was because it makes pain go away. I'm going to turn this into a therapy session. No, it does. Also emotional, guy.

Yeah. It just makes you totally numb. It's facts, though. The one time I got a tortal shot was actually this October, this September. It was right after Billy broke my rib throwing that pass that I caught with my body. You got a turtle shot for that? Or a fractured the rib cartilage. Yeah, remember I sent the picture to the group chat of them giving me the injection.

I didn't realize that was tortle. Into my left arm. I thought it was another booster. No, they gave it to me into my left arm. And it didn't really affect. I didn't feel the effects like you guys have which tells me that maybe it was partially in my head

I don't know because like I remember my entire arm went like super warm it just feels really warm for a while but the pain that I was having wasn't really affected by it so maybe maybe I just wasn't that injured to begin with and I was just thinking that I don't know who knows what was happening yeah I was just talking to the nurse because I was like

kind of freaked out was like what are you giving me right now just because I wanted to know and then she was like tour it all and was like oh that's the football one Yeah. It's a great way. It's a great way to get kids to take medicine to just tell them like, this is what football players take. No, no, but I could 100% see how that could get abused. Like, if I was had a nagging injury, like, I'd just be.

I figured you requested the tour at all. No, no. I was in, I was like, I didn't know what was going on. It was kind of scary. You still don't. Yeah. But like, it's gone down now. It's definitely some sort of allergic reaction.

And they gave me all these like, like anti-stereyroids. steroidal anti-inflammatories so good luck billy yeah i hate seeing you like this yeah it is very funny though so i don't totally hate it it's kind of on brand if it wasn't funny i like i don't know that's how you deal with things like that i said it in the extra dosing but i got a text from billy on wednesday morning we were supposed to film the extra dosing and he was just like hey what it was like at 1 30 a m hey what time you want me to come in this like this morning i just got out of the er and i was like are you straight down that's billy's way of feeling it out to make sure like you are you sure you don't want to just put this off right I asked I was like are you okay to

like come in like what's wrong and he was like no no I'm totally fine they just like shot me up with Benadryl and I was like okay let's go I just yeah I was just trying to figure out I wouldn't set my alarm because like I had been in the ER all night and I was like well it's going to be hard to wake up tomorrow morning like one of those alarms don't work for me anymore man I don't need it I wake up every morning around the same time so you just don't need it in long yeah like that's kind of wild yeah I just I just I just get up and I never really have needed one like if I wasn't drinking a night before I would always get up like pretty early just but then I'd go back to sleep if I don't have anything to do your body would know that it's time

to get up yeah the hey fan sun's up yep that's good uh big tea what's up what's up what's good with you How was the weekend? I thought it was going to be good, but it was average. That's great. That's great. Yeah. No, it was good, but I thought it was going to be like a really good way. It was average.

It was fine. So what happened that made it not as good as you thought it was going to be? I was going to, I went to a soccer game Saturday. I thought that was going to be like really fun, but it was freezing cold and it ended nil-nil-nil. So it wasn't that good of a time. UT lost. And, yeah, so it was. Oh, Ziegler's hurt.

Yeah, that was, that happened earlier in the week. But yeah, it was average, it was fine. Okay, that's good. Went to Wogies. Great spot. Awesome Wings. That made Saturday great. You went to the one in the village?

Yeah. Woogie sounds like a quote. What is Wogis? Some of my favorite wings in New York City. It's a cute sports bar. Great. Is it a cute? I think it's cute.

I ran into big tea there one time. Really? Yeah. I went there the maybe first or second weekend that I was in New York City. Ever? Ever? And I just stopped in. I had no idea what to expect from the place.

And it was just mind-blowingly good wings. Great stuff. And the server. I mean, mind-blowingly good way. I mean, I'm glad you had it. Best wings have had in New York City.

Let's go. Mind-blowingly. I mean, I would love to, but I'm on this kick right now where it's like the April abs are coming. Yeah. I don't know if you can tell

camera shows it, but I'm feeling. You do look good. I'm feeling good. You look great. Yeah. It's amazing right now. I don't want to fuck it up with wings.

But it's chicken. It's protein. The skin on your face looks great. Thanks, man. Yeah, you look you look like the picture of health right now would you tell me if it if i didn't no i just be like i'd wait till you leave and be like harian looks like shit fucked up man i hope he's okay no you look you look good you got you got you got that spark you're feeling good yeah i like

that last couple times i was here it's just it was bad man i was i was podcasting through trauma mm-hmm yeah i'm glad i'm glad that you're back yeah me too man it's good to have you the next the next like three weekends though elite in terms of conference tournaments Wing consumption weekends Just just overall enjoyment Yeah conference tournaments NCAA tournament

This time of year is one of my favorite times a year Because like you start getting that like smell in the morning Where it's like spring And then like it kind of gets you like I don't know what it is But like you start to get like amped up And like hyper Yeah

And then like It's next Thursday is the last time The sun will set before 7 p.m. until September Let's go. We made it guys. Golf. Yeah. That's, yeah, that's very true. So, Billy, I know what you're saying.

Sometimes, like, the anticipation of spring coming is even better than the actual spring because it feels like you're maybe, there's light at the end of the tunnel after winter. But there was always up up, up there was always like one rogue March snowstorm that comes in and fucks you all up after you think that that spring is coming. That's an east coast thing. I never really dealt with before. It's not good. But if you get that sun, as long as there's that sun,

then, like, I know you're like, buddies want to go play pickup basketball and, like, you can do outdoor activities again. That's why I fucked with Tennessee so hard. The state is because you get every season and that smell you're talking about, bruh, it's just one of the best places to have all seasons because you get the snow, you get the summer,

you get the spring and the falls. It's just, it's just gorgeous out there, dog. Oh, my God. You know what's great on college campus, not to sound too horny, but this is going to sound really horny. It's going to be horrible. The like first, the first somewhat nice day of spring that you get on campus.

Sundress season. Sundress season. Yeah. All right. Dardy season. All right. That's what is St. Patrick. The smile on your face was great.

I was, I was literally going to say sundress season. Sundress season in the way I said, though. It's a good day. Especially on HBCUs. Yeah. I'm just saying. What the fuck? Do they do they do sundress season different?

Shakes a little thicker down now. I'm just saying. Bunk. Bunk. Bong me all day. I went, yeah, at James Madison, which is as close to, like, a HWCU as you can possibly get. Maybe, maybe, yeah. It was still a great day.

Except I just realized I'm 36 and me talking about college girl sundress. It ain't it. No, but we just realized that. No, it was memories. Yeah, we're experiencing. Okay, I like that. I wouldn't go back there right now and be like, fuck, yeah, sun dresses. I had that, that's why I was like, hold on, but I had that moment this morning, so I was scrolling on my Instagram and there was this video of Rihanna talking about her inspirations and it was like 17-year-old Rihanna.

I was like, God damn, she's 17. I don't like, I should not like this. But I mean, when she was 17, I was younger, so that makes sense. So in my mind, that's a weird. That's fine. There's some gray area there. No, it's fine. I mean, if you're experiencing the memory through how you felt when you were that same age.

it was a weird moment actually i was talking to mad dog about this after we recorded last uh last wednesday because they were going to get into the last of us episode it's so creepy to think that the the girl from game of thrones that's in last of us and then the main character guy uh they have very explicitly like a father-daughter relationship in that show where he's like her guardian but the difference in age of those actors in real life that's what Leonardo Caprio has with his girlfriend yo like that's that's really fucking creepy that Leo how old is Leo now 50 40 50 is he 50

50 bro probably and 48 and he's dating 18 and 19 year olds dude I would feel weird that's that was this really creepy I seen somebody do like a timeline of all his girlfriends they've all been like then he dumps him at 25 yeah like some real predator type vibe it actually is like he gets a pass because he's known as a heartthrob and he's been he's all like climate activist and shit like they're trying to do the right thing yeah that's weird oh shit man it's very very strange like in a 19 year old yeah billy like for you if you dated a 19 year that would be weird and you're 24 yeah that wouldn't be that weird though it's not that weird it's not that weird but it'd be

you'd imagine bring her around your friends and she can't drink I would say if it would That's where his mind goes I can't drink around you Reliability Like then you're like No but imagine like you're all going to a bar Like with like a friend group And your girlfriend can't get in

That's just like That's just weird I think I think it's not as weird Because women are way more mature to men Especially at that age But like Like this you're not that mature At 19 as a 50 roll

Like what do you have in college What are we talking about? Absolutely nothing We Netflixing and chilling like what are we talking about Yeah. I was selling PFT, like, to put it in perspective, most of her high school experience was shaped by COVID. That's fucking crazy.

It's creepy. That's crazy. But quick thing on Leo, that might be a beard thing. That's what a lot of theory in Hollywood is. Fam what? Like, a beer is. You might be gay? Yeah.

That's been very well known. Is it? No, like, that's like, I'm not crazy. It's been. I'm going to be real. I haven't heard of it. Yeah. A beard is a heterosexual partner that someone has to disguise the fact that in real life that they're gay.

I've never heard of this. If Leonardo DiCaprio is gay, let's say, he's dating all of these women to distract from the fact that he's actually gay and is dating men in his private life. Or like how Tom Cruise that's been speculated. And John Fulta, that he's gay. Yeah, that they're gay. No idea if it's true or not, but there's a lot of rumors. I haven't heard that about Leo. I've never heard about Leo.

We started that rumor back when I was in. eighth grade just because my friends and I were so pissed off that every girl in our class loved Leonardo DiCaprio. We're like, what am I, chopped liver? We all had like braces. Actually, I'm way hotter than Leonardo de Castro. He's gay. You don't want to date him. No, because the thing is, date me. I'm five, too. If he, since he plays a lot of leading men, that like, if he, if he wasn't straight, then he wouldn't get the roles and like, he wouldn't be the, have the heartthrob status that, uh, he achieved. through like romeo and juliet it's just a theory wait was he in romeo and juliet

yeah yeah killed that that that was a sick movie he killed that shit john legwizamo claire daines yeah and like that whole riot scene in the beginning was like pretty awesome i love that rendition of yeah that show was fire wasn't clear daines i don't know claire dain i feel like she was 16 or 17 when they filmed that that was in the og o g romeo and juliet that's actually that movie is technically child pornography yeah i was going to say like the original one with like the dude who looks like really like zach effron like if you look up the original romeo and juliet movie when you say original like it's like the first one it was in the 60s if you look at the leading guy he looks almost exactly like zach effron and i'm thinking that

when they were doing a high school musical they chose zach effron because he looked like that guy But you know that Claire Dane's was in the one with Leonard DiCaprio, right? I don't know. She was not old enough to have acted in a movie from the 60s. I know, but the girl in this movie is 16 and they have like a scene where she's like exposed. Yeah, I mean, even the Claire Dane's one, there were a lot of bedroom scenes and it was at the time, I think I was probably like 14 or 15. Paul Rudd was in this. Wow.

Paul Rudder was in Romeo Joliet. I don't remember him. Yeah, he was Count Paris. Wow. So, yeah, I was 11 when it came out. So I didn't think that there was anything weird about like the sex scenes

with Claire Danes and Leonardo DiCaprio. But let's see. What was the ages? I'm about to look it up right now. So it was 1996 when it came out, probably shot in 95. She was born in 79. So she was, yeah, 16.

And he was. he was around that too probably around that same 24 25 in the original story that it's weird because 96 was 27 years ago he's 40 oh so he's like 21 22

that's still that's still weird to be if you're 21 you're doing a love scene with a 16 year old that's in the OG like I didn't know that yeah like okay now I'm on team Hollywood is a bunch of pedophiles

that's I've been radicalized I think entertainment has just been every year because when you go back even in times like it's always been that like so shakespeare used to hire like young boys for girl roles yeah in the in the original writing uh romeo is 16 and juliette is 13 in shakespeare's right and old in times that was no there there was no pedophilia that was just normal like you also died when you were 40 years old that's true so maybe i'm just taking facts man yeah the rules right i mean yeah ancient ancient greece was

just like yeah all the old philosophers they was they were perves too oh yeah like i remember we learned that socrates was arrested for corrupting the youth yeah and we were taught that it was because he was asking too many questions he was making them question authority and society too i'm pretty sure socrates was just banging them out too there was no rules back then there was no cameras there's probably some crazy shit that went down though yeah all the time like i would I would venture to say a lot of people that when you do the genealogy that you think is in your family might not be in your family. Well, if you do the geology, they are. But as far as like, oh, my great uncle is whoop-de-whoop, might not be because there's no way to tell unless you do the tests.

Yeah. Because I know that was tipping because, like, I know there were some housewives in the 50s that was doing some bad stuff. It was because they felt abused. they felt unwanted and unloved and who do you back then yeah they was getting their rocks off yeah had to have people been fucking

people be fucking always yeah bill there's a story no there's a story about um like an I was researching if that milkman story

was true that there was a milkman who like fathered a bunch of like kids with housewives and like the 50s like classic story yeah and there was an example of a repair man who basically uh women there was a rumor going around if they were having trouble conceiving and like their husbands were infertile that this guy would just like it was like a note in secret this guy would get you pregnant he called the repair man yeah like it was like there was a story let me find the exact because i might be

just speaking out my ass but i doubt it i choose to believe this one's true like that was the fertility clinic just get one guy that you know shoots big loads that's like the handsmate that's like handmade sales plot is it it's it's like a it's like an HBO show about like some dystopian future where like women are property again but it's there's so many people that are so mad at you right now listen to you say that why because there's a book it's like a very famous book oh yeah well the show yeah i was like fuck me i don't know but um the in the i've only seen like couple episodes of the show is so creepy but they have it where if the wife can't get pregnant they um basically like have sex but instead of her vagina the husband is like fucking some

other lady like it's just like put in front of her and then she carries the baby out but it's like what yeah it's surrogate surrogacy but like it's yeah it's wild Mm-hmm. Power rank all the short stories and books that you had to read in high school, like the classic ones. Did you guys actually enjoy any of those? The Village. I liked Jekyll and Hyde. Moby Dick was honestly my favorite book I read in high school.

It's pretty metal. Yeah. But like the books we had to read in high school were like really out there. So like by the time we got to the traditional Moby Dick part of the curriculum, it was like the most normal book I had read. Yeah. That wasn't like some, like, you know, weird coming of age tale that I just had zero connection with. Lord of the Flies. Were you a fan?

And you never had to read that, but I watched it. I watched the movie. Yeah. I can't find that shit anywhere, by what I haven't looked, maybe. The movie? Yeah, I used to like it. I thought it was a good book. Kill the pig.

Kill the pig. Yeah. Piggy. Piggy. And his glasses. Yeah. That guy was a nerd. Got smoked.

Spoiler alert. Didn't it? Wait. Oh, I guess it's on YouTube. I let's see what else did I like I read the autobiography of Michael Beck's that shit was fire the pearl I don't know that one which one's the pearl oh Steinbeck one I like the old man in the sea oh um of mice and men oh yeah tell me about the rabbits yeah yeah that was a sad one who was a sad one oh look at the mountains my friends used to call me Lenny in high school

they just call you Lenny yeah why Why do you think they did that? I watched, or I read All Quiet in the Western Front that I saw the movie. Good movie. I haven't seen too many new movies recently. That one, I'm giving the PFT stamp. Good film. I didn't like the ending compared to the book ending.

No? Because the whole point of it was when he died, it was supposed to be totally pointless. And at the end of the war and just like any random quiet day. and they like made this whole scene at the end like it was the whole point was he was supposed to die at the end to show how pointless war is and like how pointless his death was and how it was like all quiet was on the western front and then he just got shot right before the war ended

and like in the movie they like put on this whole scene no I mean I when I watched it I got that I got that point when they stole like chickens eggs they stole a bunch of eggs no that was a different part So the guy got shot when he stole a bunch of chicken eggs after the war was essentially done. And then the kid killed him. Yeah. Spoiler.

But yeah, it was extremely pointless. It's like the war was over. I think it happened right after they signed that peace tree. But they had like the whole second charge of that one guy in the mansion. But like that in the book, it's supposed to be way, way more pointless so that you're like there's no excitement towards it. It's just like it's done. We really fucked up by saying that that was the war to end all wars. Talk about it jinks.

It's like, well, surely we'll never go to war again after this. I don't think that's ever. Fast forward. Ever going to be the case. 10 years. It's a good movie, though. Good movie. Yeah.

We just kind of spoiled it. Did we read the diary of Am Frank? I did not read that. I did not. I did not. Most people. That would be. Yeah, that's a, I think I did it.

That's a pretty essential. I think I read that A lot of stuff that had to Recently I don't know if it's true or not It could be but there's a video that was circulating They have a video of her Like there was some dude out there Who got married or something like they were getting married

And she's like waving her hand out the window I don't know if that's true or not though What was the most recent internet argument About like Anne Frank had white privilege? Yeah It's time to log off That's wild Definitely time to log off when that's your take

There's a lot of bored people online That's a wild take. That's a bad day on the internet. Let's see other high school, middle school books that we were forced to read. Death of a salesman. Good play. Good play. Sawed as a play.

Yeah. Very sad. Depressive. Really, they didn't make us read or watch anything uplifting. Everything was sad. They just tried to bum you out in high school. Did you have to read little women? I did not.

Neither did I. I feel like I wish you did. I've never even heard of Little Women. What? It's a classic book about Four Sisters. Four sisters. That was one of those books that I literally just spark notes and just I couldn't do it. Billy is so Amy March.

No, but like reading books like Little Women made when I was able to read Moby Dick so much better. Yeah. It was just like, oh my God. Like guys. Literally. Like what is this about? Oh, go to kill giant Leviathons. Yeah.

Yeah, like a bunch of dudes getting on a boat, throwing it out, getting over each other's differences. And just like, it's like almost like, remember the Titans type five on the Piquot. Yeah. I actually wrote a whole essay on it about how like in the book, there was better race relations on the boat in the crew than in the country at that time. In a locker room together. Yeah. Literally, I was like the Piquad was a locker room. And this is just reflected in various different, like, stages of life.

I understand what you're saying. I like that take. What grade did you get on it? I think it was my favorite. I think I got an A-minus in English that year. Oh, nice. Are you looking it up right now? Let me see if I can find it.

That's wild that you can, if you're 24 years old, you can just look up what grades you got in high school right now. Actually, I don't know if I can log into the portal anymore. Yeah, there's no way I can. Oh, you know what they deleted by Google Drive. Damn. I would have loved to read all your essays that were on file. I know. I would have just published them.

blocks yeah can you try to recover them let me actually I'm gonna email I'm gonna email the IT person I want yeah I would love to read your essay about Moby Dick and how it relates to I basically just related to football yeah yeah yeah I like it can you look into your canvas I does make sense though it makes sense at first but he said river the titans I was like yeah like a lot of times people's racism is founded and not knowing or not experiencing other people other cultures and then once you get to know people then you're like oh bonding through a similar traumatic experience.

Yeah, that's also true. Trauma bond. Yeah. Which I don't like the term that much because it can have like a negative connotation. Sometimes it's not trauma though. I would say like in sports adversity that you deal with over the course of a season, whether it's like your coach makes you run too much a couple days, you're all puking together, you're working out together, you have losses together, wins together,

just like experiencing all those emotions. That's funny. you're like if you're puking together that's trauma man yeah yeah you're right you're right i guess so we just don't attribute it to because like sports makes you tough this is kind of toxic shit that you have to kind of just push it though sometimes you just got to puke i'm having trouble with that right right now actually because like you know raising kids who are playing sports and the balance between like you need this shit versus uh like where did this come from where did where did this like macho shit like start and when when can we

do away with it it's like the balance is hard compete to prove your self-worth to yourself yeah like people that that get their entire um personality or their um like entire mindset off knowing that they're better at somebody else in a physical competition well i think i think the like my my worldview is kind of like the antithesis of the goal of sports honestly is like so the whole competitive conquer and like I'm the better I understand it because I came from that mode and that's the mindset I had to do like I remember before games you literally had to like going to this mindset of like yo I'm gonna I'm gonna fucking kill somebody out there like that I'm just anger like and I said this is of who I am as a human and so

like trying to get your kids to understand and compartmentalize those emotions, it's really weird. It's a weird, it's a weird and tightrope to walk. Because at the end of the day, you're still raising good human beings that are trying to be productive member of society and good people. But at the end of the day, like, sports

is like this subset of like, this is where you can relinquish all your goodness and be a dick, and it's heralded. You know what I mean? Because, like, for example, like, so my son, he's really nice at basketball. Eight years old, he'd be going down to court like step back with the jumper right really nice like he made his all-star guy which was his

all-star game um on sunday and uh they sat him because he was taunting the other players so like he would score on him cross him up go lay it go lay it up and he'll do that little you know too small too small shit to talk the little kid i think it's fucking hilarious but they're like you're showboating with the but i'm like i mean he's having fun i don't really look at it like he's fucking with the other he don't really know what he's doing he's He's just having fun. He sees NBA players doing it, so he's doing it. Yeah.

And so, like, you know, that balance of, like, I've never really believed in sportsmanship in general. So that's out the window. I just believe it's more. Let the kids have fun, right? Yeah. Have you seen that video of the youth basketball team that's doing all that stuff? Yeah, they got whopped. They did get crushed.

They got whopped. So I think you're okay to do that, but also when it happens to you, you can't get mad. You can't get mad. That's true. I had that conversation too. I was like, nah, if you're doing all this,

and that's one of my rules in my house is like, yo, if you give it, make sure you can take it. Yeah, because a lot of people that do that can't take it.

So maybe you just schedule a game of him. Or you have to, as a dad, just still be able to cross him up. I will up his ass. Yeah, in everything. Just so he gets the feeling of losing.

Yeah. He understands that feeling. He hates that. He's really into FIFA the game. And I haven't played FIFA since, I don't know, Xbox, like Xbox one,

I don't know, the early Xbox. with the death ring. Do they still get a death ring? I don't know. That was the Red R-360. I don't know. I think they fixed that in the couple systems.

That's the last time I played FIFA, though. And so like, but he was like, I want to play you in FIFA. So I played him, spankting, you know, just residual niceness that I have. And, you know, he got mad. He always wants to play me again. He keeps on the play. But I keep whooping him. I'm not going to let him win, right?

And keep whooping him. Yeah, I feel like it's teaching him a good lesson. Also, I see him whooping of his other siblings and his cousins and stuff. So it's hard balance to. to instill competitiveness, but also instill, like, good nature. Because sports is like this, we otherize assholeness, and it's okay, right? It's a really weird thing. Would you, I think it's easy in video games to, like, just kick your kid's ass until they're good enough to beat you.

But, like, if you were playing basketball with him, would you still kick his ass until he's good enough to beat you? We don't play one-on-one like that. Because he knows I with him, right? he's like he's a super kid he's a child of the internet so he Googles me he's all my dad's hearing and like he lists off all my stats

shit like that so I don't play him like to one-on-one him I play him more so to teach him more so to teach him things like I'm a teacher at a drop step I'm teach you how to fade away I'm teach you at a cross like stuff like that so it's more of like a lesson yeah we I'm teaching them it's not necessarily if he ever wants to

I'm that he knows like I'll definitely whoop him and yeah I'll give it to him until I can't no more and I don't I don't know when that's going to be because I'm going to be one of them OGs on the court that know how to back you down, you know? And I got that, there's a difference. I used to live all day in college and shit, right, pros even. But then when I shake my dad's hand,

he got that grown man strength that comes over time. And he'll never be stronger to me in that aspect. Your son's also got almost the ultimate Trump card and my dad could beat up your dad discussions that you have. It's like, well, my dad was an all pro. I don't know if you know this, but he rushed for 1,600 yards with the broken collarbone. I don't think he knows that part

until he runs into like a UFC fighter's kid Yeah That'd be wild Yeah Now there's a thing called Jiujitsu Yeah I'm right now

I can do that But actually MMA fighters aren't the best At grappling They're like purple belts Ish Like it's rare that You'll have a black belt

Or something like that Because they have You know multifaceted But I will never fight anybody With cauliflower air though You get it You won the argument

You can go first Whatever Whatever our disagreement is my bad. I literally met a dude playing pool and I just like became his friend because he had a huge cauliflower ears and I was just like, I'm going to just befriend this guy. Are you afraid

of KV? Well He wants to be his friend. Yeah. Yeah. Just better to befriend him. I mean, he's a wrestler. But he has cauliflower ear. Yeah. A wrestler is. Yeah. It's not as they know what they're doing, man. I'm cauliflower. Billy looks at

dudes with cauliflower ear like most dudes look at girls with huge tits. No, I want to befriend you. He's like, we're going to hang out. That's his sundress season here. No. No, it's just because they're dangerous. It's like, you're showing off your new buddy. Look at this, yeah.

Look at this guy I found. Check his ears out. He's perfect for the squad. Interviewing cats to be in the squad. Yeah. Do we want to talk at all about the Jabberant thing? I don't know what else we can contribute to that that hasn't already been said. Why does he keep pulling out guns?

Three gun incidents in the last like three weeks is not great. So I'm not totally up to speed on this. I've heard he had an Instagram video where he put out in the club with some shit like that. He went live in the strip club. So a few weeks, the first one was a few weeks ago. Someone in a car with him pointed a gun with a laser on it at someone that was with the Pacers. Like, some, they're leaving the arena. They point a gun out the window of this car that he's in at someone in the Pacer's party.

That's crazy. Then, like, a week ago, it comes out. He had some incident where he was playing basketball with a 17-year-old, which I don't know why that was happening in the first place. I'm sure the kid was pretty good at basketball. I would assume. Yeah. But, like, beats the shit out of the kid and pistol whipped him and, like, pulled a gun out on him. And then, like, two days after that came out.

I had not heard pistol whipped. heard beat the shit out of him and then when he was on the ground he told him like actually fought yeah yeah and then continued to beat him after the kid was on the girl I heard and then came out of his house tell him out do we know why they got in the fight in the phone don't know he threw the ball at his head in a heated like taunting and the kid threw the ball at him like too aggressively and I think hit him in the head and he didn't catch it and then John Morant then it was like he hit me in the head with the ball first so I punched him I considered him hitting me in the head with the ball like the first punch and and and I had heard her

that he beat the shit out of him and then walked out of his house back to the kid with a gun in his waistband and then put his hand on the gun and maybe might have pointed the gun out. So I that I had heard that the pistol whip thing but that's not in

the Washington Post report. It said this was last summer during an altercation in the parking lot Morant punched a teenage boy in the head during a pickup basketball game at Morant's house. Morant and his friend struck the 17-year-old so hard they knocked him to the ground

and left him with a large knot on the side of his head. So Cus came and played basketball at his house. So he must have been invited. Yeah, the teenager told detectives from the Shelby County Sheriff's Office that after the fight, Morant went into his house and reemerged with a gun visible in the waistband of his pants and his hand on the weapon. Okay. So then two days after that comes out, he's on Instagram live flashing his gun in a club.

Very tiny gun too. You're a little tiny little guy. Strip Club gun. Yeah. Yeah, it was, it's not good. It's not good. And especially when you look at his contract situation, he, at the end of this season,

he's done with his rookie deal, and he's going to make $300 million super max. Easily. And basically all he has to do is to not get arrested for gun violence in the next three months. I don't even think that's going to stop. Unless he takes, somebody takes his freedom away.

I don't think that's not going to be a determinative factor. I would just, I would, I would lock myself. What's, what's, where can you not have a gun? A lot of, you don't need a classroom, Chicago. You don't need a gun, bro. He don't need a fucking gun. And like a month ago, he was like one of the most likable players in the NBA, I think. I still like him.

It's just, he's just young. It's young and stupid that you're hanging with the wrong folks, right? If somebody around you and your entourage is doing that stupid shit, like, you need to, you need a new crew, man. Like, I remember, I went back home. and yeah i understand the environment right because i grew up in it so i understand the environment but i remember one time i went back home they look i'm not getting involved in none of that shit so if you get in some shit like you on your own like that has nothing to do with me i'm like you and most real ones that's how i noticed like the real ones who are really in the streets

the real ones who are really about their life who are really on the corner banging for spots they don't want athletes nowhere around that shit they don't want like yo you get a away from this like get away from this life the majority of cats are the real ones they'll be like yo you don't want this like get out of here with that shit it'd be the ones that just want like social clout social they just want to be attached to you and that's what you got to look up for if there's anybody hanging around you or what's doing that shit that's not that's not telling you fam like get out of these neighborhoods get out of there with just stupid shit they didn't they you don't need to be around them yeah i i to a certain

extent understand how he like job probably feels like a target sometimes because he is rich as shit and he's young and he probably has people around him that that use him from time to time and maybe some people that like maybe he's had incidents where someone's tried to steal something from him i understand young athletes feeling the need to have a gun in the moment but it's not worth it's not worth it especially for job right now you know there's a there's a guy i know who's a former police officer who literally i said this on part of my take but the guy from the docs no another guy okay uh basically he uh when i said if he doesn't have his gun on him he might get anxiety this guy actually has to go everywhere

with it and he has the permit for it and he goes everywhere with a gun because he has you know stress PTSD from times where he's gotten shot at and like he gets anxiety without his gun like it's literally like he that is an argument i don't know if john morant falls into that category but there Where's he from? He's from South Carolina. Is he like from the projects or is he from? I don't know. My understanding of job, which I am, this might be the most ignorant thing because I don't know this for a fact.

But my understanding before all this happened was that he was not from a bad part of town. Like that, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe. Even if he was, though, it's shit, it just don't. You need it at this point in your career. What was he like 23, 24? Maybe not even that old You just need to understand

That people are out to get you There are women plotting There are men plotting Everybody want to be apart And so you've got to realize, dog Like protect yourself Now with a gun, nigga With better decisions

Protect yourself for better decisions I like that Speaking of Mr. Murdo was convicted Since we've last spoken Yeah, that's right We got him The Snapchat video

Put him dead to rights I've never seen that man in a suit that fits. Yeah. And they're crazy. Every suit looked too big. Yeah. And no matter how big he is, he's so constipated. I think he has lost a lot of weight since he's been in jail.

Dude, that could be the case. Think about how constipated that dude was off taking all those pills. And like, you could see it in the pictures. He was just like literally full of shit. Yeah. Yeah. And now he's like clean and literally like, like, like, it's like. I forgot about that aspect of pain killed is that you can not.

defecate jams you up yeah yeah that's actually a good point area and he he needs a new tailor for as much money as that family has he ain't never been in a good suit you ever seen that that live performance the talking heads i think scorsesey might have shot it uh it's a it's a live talk it's a live talking heads concert and the singer comes out and he's wearing a suit that's like five sizes too big because he wanted his head to look really small and look weird on stage that's what this dude looks like to me thanks that's what he used to look like See, suit don't fit. I can't tell with that one, but he's lost weight since he's been in jail for sure.

Now it's bald of shit, too. Damn, Chris. Shaved his head. Well, a murderer off the streets. Yeah. This is... We're still going to get the guy that actually did it, though. This is...

I don't know if he did it, but... David Byrne from talking heads right there. That's what Alec Murdo looks like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if he did the shit himself. The trending TikTok conspiracy theory is that he, someone that he owed a ton of money to came and, like,

killed his wife and kid in front of him. And he didn't say anything because he knows that if he did, they would kill him in prison and his other kid. Well, there's another kid left? Yeah. He has to take the fall. I say lock that kid up preemptively. Just sorry.

Well, he's the one that allegedly could have. had something to do with the the first kid that died. Buster and Pawpaw. Where's this trending topic coming from on TikTok? I've seen it. I'm on that. It's a bunch of girls who all are

saying this, making this TikTok like they're the first one that's made it, but they're all verbatim the exact same thing. It's like, I'm Southern enough to know what happened. And they're using the Reba McIntyre song where it's like, don't trust no Southern lawyer. When the lights

went out in Georgia. Yeah, great song. The craziest part is there's tons of other families like that due to how the judicial system works in South Carolina that have that much control. We just don't know about them. Yet. Yeah. And they could be getting away with all sorts of shit. I do love how TikTok, you're

covering other people's stories like on TikTok as opposed to just doing, just copying their dance. Now you're just copying their exact TikTok that they put out. I've seen that their thoughts. I've seen that one eight times. Yeah. Verbatim. I'm Southern enough to know that They were killed in front of him. How does being from the South have anything to do that?

I think it's implying that like that's a, you know, southern vigilante justice, I guess. Yeah, if you're from, if you're from Western Pennsylvania, you know. Yeah. I got so much feedback. Pennsylvania is not the South. I got so much feedback. Actually, most people that were from Pennsylvania agree. They were like, yeah, outside of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh maybe.

Pennsylvania's South. I'd say it's more Appalachian. It's Appalachian. Yeah. I am kind of like conflating Appalachia. And there are differences between, like, you go to Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, and then comparing that with, like, western North Carolina, West Virginia. It's different, but it's similar.

West Virginia is considered the South name. Or is it? Like Appalachia. They actually, they fought for. They split from regular Virginia to fight for the north. But I would consider West Virginia's very southern. Very southern. There's like how the aspects of Texas that I don't really feel our southern.

Yeah. Spent time in Tennessee. I don't like I have partners in Georgia, Louisiana, Alabama. Like that shit is South. Like Texas is kind of like the Hollywood South. Texas is Texas. There are pockets that are South? Yeah, I agree.

But like when the rodeo comes, like all of a sudden, that Southern shit just came out of nowhere. I'm like, dog, you, y'all was eating avocado toast yesterday. Well, would you say rodeo is more western? It's the cowboy shit. Like the cowboy hats and the boots and that shit is southern. You think the cat. That's it.

Cowboy boots, you don't find that out in California, though. But you kind of do in like, New Mexico. Yeah. New Mexico. No. Arizona. Cattle country. Maybe.

Maybe it's just like a Republican thing. I don't know. Do you know about the, Republicans wear cowboy boots? Do you know about the Angeload? Prison Rodeo? I don't. So this is something

I learned in college when I would go down to visit my friends at L.SU. Mexicans wear boots too. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, there's two kind of Mexicans. They're like essays

and there's like Mexico Mexicans. Yeah, cowboy hats, cowboy boots. Yeah. The Angola Prison Rodeo is a wild thing that still exists to this day. Angola Prison. Angola.

It's a prison in Louisiana. Okay. The Angola Prison. And they do a rodeo. I think. it's every year where the inmates participate in it. And there are some like really good cowboys that they train to do this thing. But it's also prisoners that are competing in a rodeo that do this thing where they go out and they do a cowboy poker or rodeo poker

where they just sit around a card table. And the premise is the last person that's sitting at the table wins that that event. And they release a live bull into the arena. And then the bull just starts charging at people and knocking them out during the card game during during during the card game that it's a really fucked up situation but people in louisiana are like oh yeah it's just normal i could clean fun i would agree with you if it wasn't voluntary and like there isn't a president for like rodeo clowns going to rodeos and doing that like i i was a president precedent oh like it's what it's like a president of rodeo club it's a sport it's a sport and it's like it's not they're not just like it's not the colosseum where they're taking guys against their will and throwing them in there i think

there's a promise of like like uh commissary reward uh or is there they call it convict poker if it's voluntary i would i don't really you know like if i think the efficacy is is too off grant because if you if you in prison you're probably looking for some shit to do you know past the time and so that's probably i'm i'm looking it up right now it's actually a misspoke it's called the Angola Prison Rodeo but it's at the Louisiana State Penitentiary. It's the longest running prison rodeo in the United States. It's held one weekend in April and every Sunday in October. Thousands of visitors go out there. They sell foods. Prison guards are doing all the financial transactions. So if you go to buy food at a concession stand, you buy that was cooked

by prisoners and the prison guards take the money for it. Oh, so yeah, now I'm not with that. each spring the fund the rodeo raises funds for religious educational programs for prisoners as of 2013 each spring rodeo

raises $450,000 I'm pro like this is this is like a fun event like you can't you can't be like the guards aren't forcing prisoners to like

bull ride the chance to win prizes up to $500 it's in economic incentive for inmates to put themselves in harm's way because their wages usually earn them between two cents an hour and 75 cents an hour it's exploitive I'm not with it it is kind of it's without a doubt exploitive but the the prisoners there's definitely like a strong incentive for them

to sure to what a wild wild thing to I guarantee a lot of them look forward to the event yeah yeah definitely they don't have anything to look forward to yeah It's still exploitive. It's exploitive. Yeah, it can be, it can be exploitive and they can also, since it's voluntary, they can volunteer to do the exploitive thing and they can enjoy doing the exploitive thing. Like, Alec Murdoch, you know, he's been in the can for like a year and he wants to go ride a bull and everyone watch him maybe get thrown around by a bull.

Are we, we're against that? It's exploitive. Like, regardless of how you view somebody. humanity it is of my moral compass that they still have humanity and so exploiting them for your entertainment is still exploiting them regardless of how they feel about it it's still exploitive i put it this way i would feel extremely uncomfortable going to it yeah i wouldn't go like could you really because i mean think about everybody that's in prison like one not everybody there is is guilty two there's a spectrum of different kind of crimes they committed so

you know anywhere from drugs to you know murder or rape or whatever the case may be right it's still you're still taking people's humanity and you're throwing them in like this entertainment circus for your entertainment it's it's wild for charity it depends like if they if they're getting like money put on eight books and that and that was where it was going i wouldn't be totally against it but obviously that's not wrong he said the prison guards take the money from the concession stands that the prison for the charity but it's not it's not going to them it's going to the religious educational systems not just them the prison guards are getting the money well they're just handling the money so that it doesn't get stolen i'm yeah i'm sure they're doing a great

job at it but what i'm saying is like if if if like i said i don't know the ins and outs of the day if if it is all going to the the prisoners then you know that's that's they that's they business and that's how they want to if they don't want to do it then that's what's up but It's just something I couldn't find myself watching it for any kind of enjoyment. Yeah, it might benefit them at the end of the day. They might make a little bit of money off of it, but I would still like, imagine being in the stands for that. It'd be really strange. Remember, they have free health care.

That's true. So I would still. What does that mean? I would still rather not watch it. So let's watch them make fools themselves. Billy would go. Absolutely. Absolutely.

I love the rodeo. Like those are athletes Rodeo Well I mean Like rodeos are fun Like I once went to a rodeo Upstate and when I was a kid And I rode a sheep

They like You had to see how long You could hold on to the sheep Wall is running And it was like so fun You put it out Here's an interesting philosophical question At what point in the spectrum of crime

Do you devalue somebody's humanity Um So that's admitting that I devalue their community. You absolutely devalue. Yeah. I just said Murdoch, right and the boy, you devalue his humanity. I'll be honest. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm saying what you do. No, but like what? We're going to just judge everybody. That's what

you're doing? Like we're not going to take people's actions into account. Okay, so like OJ. Hold on. That's the question, though. The question is, at what point of the crime spectrum do you devalue their humanity? Me personally, if you're a murderer, if you're a mass murderer, I don't think you're a very good human being,

right? But I will take no enjoyment. This is just me. This is my moral compass. I will take no enjoyment watching you like that's why I don't believe in a death penalty. I would take no enjoyment from you seeing you devalued as a human being. I will take no enjoyment from that. My question to you is at what point in the spectrum do you find it okay to devalue a human being? I think this is not a I think the difference in our opinions is not coming from how we view the prisoners. I think it's how we view rodeos. I think that now that I think a line.

Yeah. Because, because, no, seriously, because I'm thinking about that. Like, rodeos are fun

for everybody, bro. It's not that deep. I don't hate murderers too much. You don't like rodeos. Yeah. I,

like, every year around my birthday, the rodeo used to come to Madison Square Garden in PBR and I used to, I went like two years or three years in a row. And it was so fun.

I went last year to PBR. It is really, it's so, like, you root for the bulls. I root for the bulls. I root for the bulls. I root for the bulls.

I root because, yeah, because they are like crazy athletes. These are like 3,000 pounds. Bulls are jumping, like they're, some of these bulls are jumping higher than most people. And they're 3,000 pounds. Yeah. And you respect the mass. And then, yeah. And then like, you got like the, you got like the cattle dealers who are like, they get money for their bulls.

And then like you read up about like, oh, this bull. Like there's a like there's sometimes like generations of bulls that are consistently are just the best and fuck up. other do like rodeo riders yeah and then there's also like there's stuff that you don't even know about like like for example a lot of Brazilians are uh no there's a bunch of very good rodeo riders who are Brazilian in PBR and that's just something that you'd never know if you didn't like watch it like there's there's tons of rodeo riders from different pockets of the earth that like every you think rodeo you think the west like you think like USA of course because that's our only context but you know there's like

so much more to it and it's just really cool. Yeah, I mean, who's doing it. But then there's rodeo clowns who are like the rodeo clowns anymore. What? They don't, they don't like the C word. Really? They don't call themselves that anymore, yeah. Really? What do they call it? Wait. The Chargers. It's another

I don't say that word. Got it. They don't like being. I'm pretty sure that's a good term because they're dressed up as clowns. Barrow men. No, they don't. Oh, the professional ones might go as well man they don't like being known as as clowns yeah um but they're they're like super acrobatic guys and they're able to like you know avoid bulls and like there's so much more to it i don't have a problem with the rodeo if that's the case you're making yeah yeah but that that's what i'm saying like for them to do a rodeo i don't think is dehumanizing them

yeah okay i mean billy that's a great job of of turning the debate i i think that's an interesting paradigm that you brought up now if they were fighting if they if it was like a goddamn blood sport like gladiators like gladiator like if they were just saying you would like gladiators too if it if it was like can turn into a bloodsport if there's animals involved if they if it was human chess right the Nazis did that at some point with their prisoners and the people that they put in the concentration camps they would put up a chess board and then they would actually they would just play chess against each other

and if you took a piece that person had to kill the other person or else they would be killed maybe I just saw that in a movie and I'm thinking that it's real but I'm gonna just for the sake of this argument I say that that's real that would be at that

so that's like the human let's say that they did that in a prison in the United States and it was murderers you would not watch that I would not watch that that maybe no i'm not watch that gives me maybe vibes no but not murders because like some

people commit murder and they're like there's a lot of murders that occur that aren't like so i'm like i know i actually know a guy who billy's list there's some murders on billy's list there's probably like statistically oh yeah we talk stop yeah there's a yeah that's right i like there's there are stories of people who commit manslaughter that ends up being murder. Sure. And like those people do not have to like, like for example, would I watch an MMA fight between prisoners? Yes, because like MMA is a sport. Like I, as someone who's like done boxing, I've like done jujitsu. Like there's like I see it more as a sport. I don't see it as dehumanizing like it like the the prisoners who do it. Like if they want to like if there was like a

prisoner charity boxing match and like they're training and like they enjoy it. It's something that they like you know do every day to like pass the time if they want to do it i don't see any problem with that it's just like like i don't see it as dehumanizing got you okay i don't know what about you big t oh he don't give a shit about criminals i don't no i don't care about rodeo or mMA when professionals do it so i sure as hell wouldn't watch convicts do it i don't watch the guys who do it do it. Big T. would feel morally conflicted because he wouldn't want to give convicts

money. Yeah, that's probably true. I truly just don't care. Yeah. I wouldn't watch John Jones do MMA. Do you watch boxing? I would. No. Really? So you don't like that. There's got to be some sort of

greater objective than beat the shit. Like, yes, you have to be trying to get a ball somewhere or throw it into something or a puck. You got to be doing something. Just the kick in and punching doesn't do it for me. Now, if I had a time machine, I would 100% go back to the Coliseum just to see it as like a historical perspective. It's already as a researcher.

Like to see like, because think about it, you have like hundreds of thousands of people all screaming. Like we go to sports game and we're like, oh, the atmosphere. I want to see what the atmosphere was like at the Coliseum. When you had a bunch of people who like, you know, who I wanted to see like how hyped it got. You think they did the wave? I think they were like... When did the waves start? Oh, that's a big dispute.

Yeah? Yeah, there's like two separate groups of people that claim to have invented the wave. Lay it on me. One guy, I think, is a Dodgers fan, and he claims that he invented it. Is that recent? Yeah, it was like the 70s, I want to say. That seems like a 70s invention. Yeah.

The wave? And there's two... Are you pro wave? I love waves. You see me get down with the wave. Yeah, I guess. I don't like it. I mean, you don't like to wear it.

It's like I'm trying to watch the game and people are going up and it's too much. I think there should be a limit of the amount of waves. Like three, four tops. After that, when it starts to die down, it gets kind of like, what are we doing? And nobody knows what exactly is that. Three, I say three.

Here's what I hate about the wave. Three max waves. If it's going around the stadium, that's one thing. It's the people trying to start the wave. Like, okay, this time, everybody, this time. One, two, and it's, and they do it eight times. Yeah, see, I think it's the amount. And also, it is kind of weird.

How do you start a wave? It's a drunk guy in your section going, okay, everybody ready on three? We're going to start the wave. I like it. And it's really annoying. I like that guy. There was one guy that said,

Crazy George Henderson claims that he invented the wave. I'm in because his name. I believe him. And he said that he started it at a hockey game, I believe. Wow. But there's somebody else that, claims that they invented it. But it looks like

Crazy George Henderson was the one. This would be a fun ESPN 360 or something. A documentary on the wave? I think they did. That's where I think I'm remembering this controversy from. It's from like an ESPN

like 60 or whatever it was called. E60. Wasn't that the name of those? Good show. The origins of the wave. Crazy George Henderson. Crazy George Henderson in his wave. I would like to interview Crazy George.

Is he still alive? Let's go back to his He has his own Wikipedia page Shout out to George Crazy George And in case he didn't think he was crazy He's supposed it with a K So he's definitely crazy

Yeah he's still alive right now He's still alive The guy that invented the wave is still alive Yeah you know the guy that invented the high five Is still alive That's that's cat You know who that guy was Who?

I'm pretty sure was Dusty Baker I think Dusty Baker I think Dusty Baker claims that he invented the high five. I think he does claim that. That's silly, man. People have been dapping it up for hundreds of years. Dusty Baker hit his 30th home run in 1977 and was greeted at home plate by his teammate Glenn Burke with his hand in the air. Baker not knowing what to do slapped Burke's hand and thus the high five was born.

That's nonsense. That's super bullshit. Ain't no fucking way, though. People was dapping it up way before Dusty Baker, bro. Dusty Baker is He's known as the man that invented the high five Not to me Ain't no fucking way

I think they did the wave in the movie Gladiator I think they had one in the crowd Well that's historically inaccurate then I know Who was crazy George Anderson It was not in attendance Could you imagine

Crazy Philonius was in the crowd He was really crazy He was a great great great grandfather So I pretty sure the crowds At like the Colosseum were like insane like they were all gambling in the crowd and like also like drinking and partying like there's like yeah no shit

you're gonna go to a gladiator event and not put money on it have some ale and wine yeah yeah the Wikipedia for high five credits it to dusty baker I'm quite I had no fucking way the high five started are we talking about like a hey you know what's up

I think it means specifically up here like that that's a high five not necessarily any handshake You're talking about a handshake with some sauce on it. That probably already existed. But the high five, like up top and you slap hands. That's Dusty Baker.

I just find that so hard to believe that nobody. Yeah, like that's the most, what's up, man? Well, funny fucking joke. Wow. I just don't,

ain't no fucking way. I mean, the nomenclature high five, I could absolutely see like that being the first time. He was like, what's that? Oh, it's a high five.

There's more like a, a naming of the high five. It was a copyright. I mean, the Wikipedia page for the high five is a great, great resource to look at because it has variations and they explain the left hanging where you ask for a high five and you don't.

They explain the self-high-five and then they explain the too slow, the too slow variation. Oh, that's a big hit with the kids. And then there's a four-picture sequence of events showing the up high, too low victim misses, too slow

it's a very good Wikipedia page parentheses with finger guns yeah because the guy that makes her miss is given two finger guns that like AI incorporates in their algorithms is there a more white people Wikipedia page than high five

it's very very white they also have the air five and it's two white women standing across a piano from each other doing the air high five where they don't actually the fuck is an air The fist bump also was developed. Oh, my God.

But baseball player Stan Musil. Stan Musil invented the fist bump? No, that's way cooler. First of all, you just said Stan Musil, like, he's not an all-time go. You should read up on Stan Musil. Secondly, that's, tell me about this. Okay, so baseball Hall of Fame. History, greatest hitters of all time.

The fist bump or pound in European history can be traced to boxers instructed to touch gloves at the start of a context. Likewise, dart players bump fists that are clutching pointed many arrows. The modern jester may have arisen spontaneously on city basketball courts and was popularized by the basketball player Fred Carter in the 1970s.

Others traced a gesture to the Wonder Twins, minor characters in the 1970s Hannah Barbara superhero cartoon Super Friends who touched Nucks and cried Wonder Twin Powers activate. Baseball Hall of Fame or Stan Musual used the bump, fist bump during the 50s and 60s as an alternative to shaking hands.

Muzo was convinced that he was catching too many colds by picking up germs while shaking hands, thousands of hands each year. So you adopted the fist bump as a friendly alternative. Ah, br. So that's 1950s and 60s? And nobody's skeptical of this shit.

Oh, Smith. The fist bump was invented into 60. I'm choosing to believe Stan Musil invented the fist bump. Come on, come on, guys. This shit is. It's amazing how so many of these greetings are just invented by well-known baseball players. Isn't that kind of weird?

Hey, come on. I guess you do a lot of handshakes when you're a baseball player. Yeah. Every time somebody hits a home run, they come back in the dugout, unless it's their first one. And then you just, everyone daps them up. You shake hands with all of your teammates before a game and after a game. I got a lot of teammates. I hate to be that guy.

This is nonsense. Well, the boxer, the boxer is touching gloves. I think that's the origin. It's like the oldest sport. I think people just been doing this shit since people were people. Like, what's up, bro? For hay. It's different cultures.

How goes it? In Japan, you don't, it's traditionally. you just bow there's no contact everyone comes up with something different baseball just comes up with the friendliest ways to say hello to somebody i don't know man there's like a cave like two cave men they're walking up to each other and they're just like my pops was born in the 60s bro they was dapping it up before then ask him about stand mutual you know my i'm gonna call them right now call him i'm gonna call him i'll call my dad because this is bullshit i feel offended I'm about that.

That's a nigga we're tired and be working on. Shit crazy. Hey, Pop. What up, man? Hey, you on a podcast, fam. Why? Because I got a question, bro. I'm calling bullshit.

So we're talking about the origins of basically dapping people up. So different kinds. High five, which ain't really all. speed but the fist bump right the the the internet says the fist bump was started in the 70s no the 50s or 60s in the 50s or 60s I'm just positive that like grandpa was like this mumbling with folks way before that shit yeah no doubt see we used to we used to we used to we used to in our in our neighbor neighborhoods we used to we used to do this it was give me some skin yeah okay and and we would

slide our hands and when it got when it started getting picked up by white boys we changed it to bump and fists mm i like to see i knew it was revisiting this history i knew it we used to we used to do this okay it was hot and we decided to make it cool y'all was just the opposite of whatever they was doing and the reason that we did that is because for years in our neighborhoods in our communities we had nothing that we could call our own even to this day we don't have anything that we could call our own we export we export nothing out of the united states as a black community that we can call our own so that's how we decided to unite with each other is to begin to have something that we could call our own. All right, man. I appreciate the History 101.

I'm going to hit you out to this, Pop. All right. Appreciate you, Doug. Yeah. You know, Pop's Popsville grandstand. He will absolutely talk for a good hour. So I have no reason to doubt what he said, and I think that's probably what he experienced. But as far as a timeline goes, Stan Musil says that he was doing this in 1950, or the 50s and 60s.

I think that's true. said your dad was born in the 60s. That's true. But what I asked was grandpa, so his dad. I was like, I guarantee Popps was doing it before that. I'm sure it's all a popularization thing. Like there was no TikTok to see that, like, guys were giving each other fist bumps. So someone saw Stan Musial do it and be like he invented that.

Yeah, that's true. So Stan Musil might have been doing it himself, but the fist bump as like a common greeting might have evolved from somewhere else too. I'm just finding hard to believe that that shit is the origins. bro. I just find out how it's just too much flavor going on in the inner cities before that shit. There's way too much flavor. It is very funny that of all professional athletes to say invented the fist bump,

you have a white guy on the St. Louis Cardinals. Oh, my God. In like 1956 that was doing it. That would be the very last person that I would expect. I mean, I mean, like think about what was happening in the other league at that time. That's what I'm saying. Like that. You said the other league.

You can say the Negro leagues, Billy. It's okay. I just don't feel comfortable. I feel comfortable. that's what it was called I know but just on a recording can really get taken out of context tomato red face right now

I don't think anybody gets mad at that I don't care might happen one day you never know now that's that's not far off you're going to be subsequently that's fair enough who's the name of the league it said it on her shirts man

it's like like 2070 you're like we got you on tape yeah I mean you're You're already going to be in big trouble because of how much meat you eat. Yeah. People are going to think that you were just that bad guy. The cricket ice cream.

The bugs. Remember talking about eating the bugs? We still need to have Jack Mack on to talk about that. But there was a story about, I forget where it was, but new cricket ice cream. And they're like, this is amazing. You will be eating bugs. Okay. So get ready.

The best ice cream ever had is lavender. Lavender ice cream. I don't like those fancy flavors. No, lavender from jennies. Do you guys have jennies in Texas? I don't know what jennies is. Give me a chocolate. Give me a vanilla.

Give me a fudge swirl. Give me a mint chocolate chip. Have you had lavender, though? I don't need to eat lavender. I don't need to have you had it. I don't need fragrant ice cream. No, I'm telling you lavender ice cream. But have you had it, though?

I have not. How are you going to do that? Well, because you don't strike me as a close-minded man. I just like ice. I like regular ice cream. So you'll love lavender ice cream. It's like, it's this freshness about it. So you got to do a honey lavender.

I've had honey lavender. Yeah, that's that shit that gets good. I'm telling you, though, lavender ice cream is superior to like regular vanilla or chocolate or strawberry. Any of that shit. I'll try it. It has this like, have you ever had like mint and it's very fresh? Like it's mint with better flavor. Okay, I'll try it.

Sweet mint. I'll give it a shot. Lavender's good for your tea. Testosterone? Yeah. Lavender. Okay, now you're convincing me But milk isn't, though, right?

No, milk's good. Really? Soy milk is it? Soy milk's terrible. I don't know about the science. You boobs. Gotcha. Oh, that's why I'd be like soy boys.

Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. One time I went to an artisanal ice cream shop in Austin and I just wanted just good, normal, regular ice cream. And they didn't have any regular options to choose from and that stayed with me for the last 15 years. That's why I stormed out.

I stormed out. Yeah. No, I stormed out. I probably hopped on Yelp. That's why he, breweries this ice cream shop is woke yeah yeah it was like i wanted i wanted to get a um like a uh chocolate chip ice cream and they had chocolate chip but it was like olive oil chocolate chip i've heard olive oil and ice cream's really good oh i just fucking ice cream

but what i don't understand like give me an ice cream i just wanted a good scoop and then i went to baskin robins right afterwards and i was like now that's what i'm talking now this is this is high eating right now what I found is the ice cream shops that have those fancy flavors their ingredients are a little more fresh and so the ice cream in general tastes better. That might be true

still I will try. Have some lavender report back what is there you wrong? I'll try. There's an ice cream place by my apartment I'm going to tell you about and it has it has good flavors like that. I'm down well see now you're trying to get me off the whack

I'm saying I'm trying to get these April I have Just gets coming. I feel... You have to treat yourself. I haven't had a cheat day in three weeks. Whoa. Whoa. I'm actually...

But I think I'm going to waste it today, though. I'm going to Mr. Taka. I'm going back to Mr. Taka. Oh, the ramen? The ramas. Not going to have the good beer, but I'm definitely going to have the ramen. Remember that little... The bun?

The pork bun? Oh, the bow buns? Yeah, bro. Oh, shit. Them shits. Them things is dang it. All right. Well, we've got an interview coming up with a very special.

guest here and she is brought to you by our great friends over at BetterHelp. Shout out BetterHelp. Better Helps is going to be brought to you by Better Help. We're going to talk about the Idaho murder. She's a crime scene investigator. So we're going to catch up on that and talk about her show that's coming out on Investigation Discovery and it's going to be brought to you by Better Help. Getting to know yourself can be a lifelong process, especially because we're always growing and changing. I'm not the same person I was in my 20s. chances are you're not the same person that you were 10 years ago 15 years ago 20 years ago life changes and we also change how we react to events in our lives new emotions creep up

when thinking about new things that are presenting themselves new challenges and therapy can be all about deepening your self-awareness and understanding because sometimes we don't know what we want or why we react the way we do until we talk through things better help connects you with a licensed therapist who can take you on that journey of self-discovery from wherever you are if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try therapy can be a great tool it's not always necessary to start going to therapy after there's a problem that arises going to therapy can be good for your just everyday mental health and can prevent some issues from popping up if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online it's designed to be

convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist anytime for no additional charge discover your potential with better help visit betterhelp.com slash dose today get 10% off your first month that's betterhelp.com slash dose and now here's alina burrows okay we welcome on a very special guest it's alina burrows you can see her on a new special coming out the idaho college murders it's going to premiere on sunday march 12th at 10 9 central you can stream it the same day on discovery plus it's going to come out on ID, investigation discovery, and you can stream it the same day on Discovery Plus. She is a

CSI and forensic expert. Is that correct? You worked as a crime scene investigator? I did. Yeah. I don't like this for the word expert around, but that's what they say. Okay. You're you probably know more than I do about investigating crime scenes. Would that be fair to say? Okay. I'll agree to that. Okay. Cool. Well, thank you very much for joining us. We have talked about the Idaho murders on this show a few times. And it looks like we're moving towards more of a resolution on that. So what is what motivated you to become interested in studying this particular murder case? You know, I think obviously this crime, you know, kind of grabbed the whole nation because we're looking at true victims. You know, it's very scary to look at, you know, I think parents sending

their children off to college. You think they're safe. They're kids. They're there. to study to have a good time to find out who they are. And this is every parent's nightmare. Kids, especially in their most vulnerable state, you know, sleeping, it's very frightening. I think everybody wants to understand why something like this happens. You know, we're all human.

We're all, you know, meat wrapped around a skeleton. And we all want to go, why can it vary so much between all of us? How does it go so wrong? How does one human vary? so much. So we all seek to understand, you know, especially in this case, once we were guided towards a potential suspect. And then everybody says, how is this person studying criminology, criminal justice? Everybody has a lot of questions. Why? From the human behavior side,

and then how does the actual investigation happen? And then people get super interested in the process. You know, how does it go from the crime scene side? How does it go from the court side? How does it go from the human behavior aspect. There's just so many intriguing factors here. Yeah, and there were a lot of armchair detectives that were trying to work on this from home. And they, I don't think they could have gotten it more wrong in like multiple different ways. So leave it to the experts like Elena, or she's not an expert. I'm sorry, but she knows more than you.

Now, this guy was studying to be a police officer working in criminology, maybe in crime labs, things like that. Is that something that's relatively common for somebody to be in that field to have, like in the back of their heads or a desire to be a criminal I don't think it's overly common I just think in this instance you know maybe he had an awareness of what was going on in his mind and that he potentially sought to understand what was going on in his in himself in his own behavior you know maybe he's seeing this behavior and he's seeking to understand why he's having these thoughts and feelings that's just

my personal take on it and and I'll let these other guys chime in in a second here My big question that I've had since kind of figuring out the path that he took across the country, now the police were falling in the entire time, is it common for police officers to have a pretty good idea of who a suspect is, but to then let that person travel all the way across the country or to observe them from a distance, how can you be sure that this guy wasn't going to hurt somebody else in the time in between when they had a pretty good idea? who it was because of the DNA and the time when they eventually arrested him. I think they were watching him. You know, I think they were watching him.

And I think the frustrating part for the rest of the world, you know, and we heard this a lot when I was doing, you know, some shows in the beginning as everybody was saying, you know, why aren't they doing more? They don't have anything. There was a general fear that the case was going cold. And I was trying to encourage everybody to understand that the police have to keep in information quiet. Otherwise, it's going to jeopardize the entire case. What we don't want as a society is that is any suspect getting away with this. We don't want important information to get leaked

and it's going to jeopardize the case going to court and having a solid case against the person that perpetrated this crime. So I get it. The world wants to hear what's going on. We want to know that they have somebody. We want to know the details. But we also don't want the person to get away with this. So we have to balance that. And, you know, guess what? As an average society, we aren't owed any information about this. You know, we live in a world where information is shared so readily, and we think that we should know everything that's going on. But we aren't owed that information. The what is the utmost concern is the victims. Always the victims. So we have to do right by the victims. And keeping all the details of this case quiet was what was the best thing to do at the time.

hard to be the chief of police and not get on TV and go, hey, everybody, we have these details. We have the guy. We're following him, but they can't reveal that information. It would jeopardize the case. Kind of along those lines, how you doing, by the way? I appreciate you joining it. Kind of along those lines, do you feel it ever, like a conflict

because like sometimes there's cases in the past where, you know, the internet investigators have actually done some good, right? They've actually uncovered some things. And so like you said, kind of finding that balance between letting too much information now, because one thing as well as you know in this society is if you keep things too secretive, then the conspiracies start to brew.

And so you gotta kind of calm that and tame that dragon as well. But so like between those two things, like how do you find that balance and kind of mitigate that entire? Yeah, it's a double-edged sword. It really is. And I've worked cases that have been high profile where I've literally had to put evidence in a bag

of a different size so that the internet wouldn't be guessing what evidence I was bringing out based on the size of the bag. So I would have a giant bag with a tiny piece of evidence inside so that people couldn't say, oh, they're bringing this out because of the size of the bag. And that's why law enforcement has public information officers and people that that's their job to give a press release

to give just enough information so that people understand hopefully this is you know we have this information we're working on it understand that we have a direction that we're going in the case and that we can't reveal you know the worst thing is to go to a press conference and every answer is I can't reveal the information at this time next question I can't reveal any information in regards to that this time yes next question unfortunately I can't reveal any you know it's like why have a press conference if every answer is that I can't reveal any information can you

So you do. You have to give enough. Can you give an example of, you know, maybe not a specific example because, you know, cases can get weird. But like an example of like something that you couldn't release and for the reasons as to why you couldn't release certain information. I'm trying to think. Because like when the general public hears that, like we were just thinking like bullshit, give it to it. You know what I mean? Like just as a layman, that's what I'm thinking. Would it be like if they release.

the type of tires they were looking for, and then that person could go change their tires? Sure. So I'll give you an example, in particular in this case. So I was asked to be on, you know, popular news media and, you know, they want me to give specific evidence of what crime scene investigators are looking for in this case. So what I'm not going to do is get on television and say, well, they're going to be looking for, you know, the following items like shoes so that the suspect who was potentially listening can go, well, I better go throw away my shoes. I don't want to give any information on, you know, mainstream media that's going to jeopardize a case and, you know, give information out that then could give our suspect the upper

hand by saying, oh, yeah, that's a good call. If they've collected this evidence, then I need to go and destroy this evidence. That could jeopardize the case. Got it. Billy, you got a question? Yeah. Hi, And I'm off camera right now, but just wondering when looking into this case, there was a lot of discussion whether Koberger had any contact with the victims before the attack and murders or if he had chosen them for any specific reasons. Is there any insight right now into what that contact could have been? I know there was an Instagram DM that was mentioned, but even rumors of knowing one of the victim's fathers. Is any of this substantiated? So we're going to look at the search warrant in this case, and search warrants are incredibly important. There's a whole process to them.

So when you do a search warrant, you have to go to a judge and say, Judge, I would like to search for the following things. You have to have to have probable cause to do a search warrant. You have to say, I think this is going to be related to the case. So you can't just go and say, I'm going to search the home. You have to say I'm searching for the following things. And this is why I believe they are related to the case. when the judge agrees to them, then you have to go and search for the things, and then you have to go back to the judge and say that I found these things.

So you'll see in the case that we've seen search warrants, and you've seen the list of items collected on a search warrant return, that goes back to the judge saying, judge, I found these things. Electronic evidence is going to be huge in this case. So that's apps, that's social media, that's laptops, cell phones, that's all of those things that's going to prove, whether or not there was a connection to any of our four victims. It's also going to prove things like, or potentially prove things like locations,

were you in the vicinity of homes, residences, work, all of those things to try to prove whether there was a connection to any of our four victims, victims, families prior to the incident. Cell phone towers, the pings of cell phones off those towers. Are those actually reliable? Because I've heard that they're not at all. So it depends. Cell phone towers, the way they work is that it pings, you know, we use the word ping, but, you know, it connects off of a location like a north, southeast, west. And the, how accurate it is, is going to depend on the actual cell provider themselves. So they will give you the distance from the tower. And it would depend. Accuracy is going to be like, were we in a, in a football field, and there was nothing around. You'll get a more accurate ping than if you were in a downtown where there were a bunch of buildings. that could interfere with cell signal.

So the provider will give you the accuracy based off of direction, distance, and potential interference. Okay, interesting. I'm sure that we have a lot of really stupid questions to ask you about crime scene investigation. Or such thing. Okay, here's a really dumb one. How come they're like, well, it's going to take six weeks to get the DNA results back?

In my dumb brain, as an outsider that doesn't know anything about your profession, I'm like, just take the blood and put it in the computer and then you give me the answer. why does it actually take six weeks to get it back so there are a lot of considerations when it comes to DNA what you're talking about is the actual sequencing of DNA which could be relatively quick if we had your DNA and we were comparing your we call your DNA a known we know that it came from you if we were going to take swabs from your cheek and do a profile to actually do that would not take that long sequencing out the DNA but then we have you know maybe a ball cap that fell off at a crime scene, that's a cue or a questioned item of DNA. Now we need to sequence

that out. That would not take terribly long in and of itself. We also have like rapid DNA sequencing, which could take four to six hours just to do those profiles in and of themselves. So now we have yours and that depending on how many, how much backlog there is. So backlog is a huge problem in law enforcement because we have just a ton of other crimes that are waiting to get physically onto the machines that run, sequence the DNA. There are also other concerns about things like cost. So certain labs have access to certain techniques of DNA analysis and certain ones don't. So if that agency doesn't have the ability, they can send it to a private lab. Sometimes when you send things to private labs, it comes at a cost. So we've got back.

We've got cost. We have what agencies actually have access to. And then we have how many profiles are we talking? Did they collect 80 different things to sequence? Do they have two? Now, we're talking about just the time it takes to sequence. They also have to do statistics. Once they've developed your profile and the baseball cap, they have to say, what are the actual statistics on planet Earth

that your DNA could have matched that ball cap? So then they have the actual report writing and the sequencing and the statistics that they have to run so it can be. after run so it can be a little bit long got it you have to prepare the report um this this might be a unique circumstance but uh i i filled out one of those 23 and me uh surveys a few years back and i did the thing where i i spit into the tube sent it away and then they wrote me back like two weeks later and say hey uh there's not enough dna present in your saliva can you please provide another sample so they sent it back and like make sure to follow the instructions which i did

to the letter a second time sent that in they said you are one of like 0.01% of people that send these in that do not have enough DNA for us to be able to get an accurate read does that mean that I can commit the perfect crime nope sorry it probably just means that you're a non-secreter so there are people that are non-secreter yeah okay I'm going to update my my Twitter profile real quick he also has four nipples thank you billy i do have four nipples i don't think that's relevant to the question that i asked but yeah so yeah there's a secretor status or non-secreter it could mean that you're a non-secreter but uh yeah that's just a little genetic thing as to whether or not your dna profile is found in things like saliva blood uh it it would it would be in blood okay but as far as my

saliva goes, so I'm a freak. Yeah, it would be like, is your DNA found in things like sweat or saliva would be like a non-superterior status. Okay, interesting. Good to know. I'm just going to file that away. Why don't those companies get blood because it would be more accurate, wouldn't it? Well, because then they rely on him trying to collect blood from his himself and that's painful and messy. You're right. You're right. I'm not a trained medical professional. I can't spit into a tube, though. Non-screate or though. Apparently I can't. Maybe I'm just not very accurate at that. Yeah, Billy? Are, is there any truth to crimes being solved using those Ancestry.com 23 and me databases? So what you're talking about now, which is the popular twist and if you ask me the direction that crime scene is headed is something called FGG or forensic genetic genealogy.

And this is basically the marriage of crime scene and ancestral DNA. And this is something that was basically used in. this crime in Idaho. So it was a relative of Koeberger submitted their DNA profile. Now, would this be to a place like 23 and me? Or would it be to a different type? Or am I thinking about that the right way? They send their DNA to a commercial to a company.

And then that company shares their information with law enforcement. And they can use that to make a close enough match to get it within the family. Yeah, you're sort of thinking about the right way. That wasn't how it happened in this case. Those sites like, you know, Ancestry and 23 and Me, they don't share their information with law enforcement. Like, you know, people aren't thinking, well, if I put that in, I'm going to get a hit to some kind of crime scene. They don't work quite like the CODIS database does. So CODIS is a government-run database. That stands for the combined offender DNA indexing system. So that started in the 90s as a way to collect DNA off of crime scenes and then store that. And as of now, any felony conviction, if you're convicted of a felony, they automatically take your DNA standards when you're booked through jail. That goes into the database so that any questioned profiles of DNA they're found on crime scenes automatically get searched through that database. So a lot of crimes are closed through that CODIS database. But it's not the way that the 23 and these work. Law enforcement is not

just allowed to search profiles that they've obtained through those databases. But what they did in this case was because they did have a suspect through the entire investigative process, they did look to see how they could utilize DNA to potentially find a match because they had DNA on the scene. And that's one of the things that we're going to talk about in the special on Sunday. Okay. Interesting. I got a question. How up, because our Congress is old, right? So like when you talk about like social media apps and stuff they kind of don't know what's going on and they're kind of late on what i feel like needs to be done legislatively with social media and the internet in general how updated are they on like gene sequencing and stuff like this

with laws of and the efficacy of getting people's DNA and things of that sort you know fortunately i think that's one of the things that they're fairly up to date on and the good news is is if they're not, they rely upon people that are. Got it. Okay. Big T, you have any questions? Yeah, I guess to the majority of the public, this case seems fairly cut and dry. I guess from your experience, do you think there's any chance he's not found guilty? Of course.

There's always a chance, right? That's what defense attorney's jobs are. And I think what we have to do is wait. So we've seen the search warrants. We've seen the search warrant returns come back. We know that they've collected dark clothing. We know that they've collected some potential hairs, including a potential animal hair. We know there was a dog in the house.

You know, what we have from the search warrant returns are possibilities. Possibilities at connections. When we talk about crime scene investigation, crime scene investigation is a triangle. We try to link our victim, our suspect, and our crime. scene. We had enough evidence to have probable cause to make an arrest. Now that was just the beginning. The beginning is then the search warrant to now collect evidence from Coburger's apartments, familial residences from Coburger himself. Now it starts going backwards and trying to find evidence of the victims in the crime scene in relation to him. Would you say that the

the act of investigating high-profile crimes like this has gotten easier or more difficult over the last 20 years, given the advancements and DNA and also in just surveillance equipment everywhere. It seems like it would be a double-edged sword where there's more resources that you have and more things that you can look at, more avenues, but also so much more information that you have to sift through and make sure that you get it exactly correct. otherwise, you know, like you said, a good defense attorney, if you make one minor mistake with a surveillance video, they can tear that apart and then, you know, your entire case is gone. I think time and technology is the hero, right? We have more technology now than we had available. And, you know, through crime scene confidential, I've had the opportunity to talk to crime scene investigators in the past and realize how easy I have it as a crime scene investigator now. You know, when they were investigating crime scenes in, you know, the 80s, even in the 90s, they weren't able to determine if they had multiple blood types on a scene, who was whose.

At this stage of the game, we can take a blood swab and determine exactly what individual blood stain was where, and that enables us to track movement of people. They weren't able to do that necessarily, you know, then. We have blood presumptive tests that tell us immediately, is this blood or is this something else? So to me, I think technology has made it easier for us. And we're making it harder and harder to be a bad guy and to get away with it. We've got doorbell cams, intersection cams. You cannot make a move these days without it being caught. You know, we've got air tags. We've got cell phones. Basically, people are wearing computers on their on their wrists that track their movement. It's very difficult. And it's not just what you, you do that is evidence of your behavior. It's what you don't do. So everybody has a phone. I could not tell you when the last time I turned my cell phone off was. So if I turned my cell phone off, that is just as much evidence of my behavior as if I had left it on. So when we have an individual turning their cell phone off, that tells you something about their behavior. And that's that's logged into your phone. Like you can go back and examine somebody's phone

and say over the past what can you go back like years however long the phone has has existed and seen okay here are the times that this individual turned their phone off i believe so i'm not an electronic evidence specialist i don't know how far back that ability goes but you know and it lines up with other evidence like those cell phone tower pings so when you get near the vicinity of a crime scene and your cell phone goes off you know that's that's what we call a clue yeah what's what's the best clue that you've ever found in your personal experience as investigator. Have you ever, is there one where you're like, that was a great clue that I found? So I have a, I have a ton of stories. Now, victim, suspect fingerprint and victim blood is universally speaking the best

piece of forensic evidence because it places your suspect at the crime scene at a time where your victim is bleeding. So that is kind of universally known as the best piece of evidence. but I've had a few in my day. I had an armed robbery of a convenience store where the suspect was shot or the victim was shot and the suspect, you know, left with money from the cash drawer, but he ripped a $20 bill out of the cash drawer. So half of the 20 was still in the cash drawer and half of the 20 was in my suspect's pocket when he was arrested. So we had a fracture match of that $20 bill that went together, half in the suspect's pocket and half still in the cash drawer at the door. That's a great clue. You know, things like that are just beautiful. Yeah. Bill,

you have any more questions? I think that about wraps it up. So there's no way to commit a crime nowadays? No. Crime scene is based on a low cards exchange principle. And that was, this is hundreds of years old. And it just says that every time two things come into contact, there will be an exchange of elements. So it could be hair. It could be fiber. It could be. It could be microscopic, but every time two things come into contact, there will be an exchange. That's the basis of prime seat investigation. That hasn't changed. I do have a final question for me is like, so I used to play in the NFL and every time I watch football movies, I'm like, yo, this is the corny and shit in the world, right?

Do you watch crime scene investigation series, TV movies and be like, come on, fam, that's so bad. Yeah. So, you know, during my 12 year career as a crime scene investigation, Gator, you know, fortunately, the CSI drama TV was kind of at its peak. So everywhere I would go, people would, you know, ask me about CSI. And if I watched all the CSI shows and it's kind of standard, I would ask them what they did for a living. And they would be like, oh, I'm a teacher. And I would say, okay, if they made a show called teacher, would you do it all day and then go home and watch it? And they would go, oh, no. I'm like, there you go. makes sense yeah uh okay that's yeah that's fascinating my my last question was going to be about

um about brian kohlberger's father and how he was in the car as they drove across the country he went out to meet him and then they drove back to uh to pennsylvania together have you heard anything about looking into the father more extensively as being an accomplice in that and how do they weigh whether or not they will charge him um after the fact and and help i guess would that be aiding and abetting at that point Yeah, they'll look, I'm sure, into that, but at the same time, you have to consider most family, you know, is it odd behavior for a, you know, for a father to want to drive across the country with his son in and of itself. I don't find it to be odd behavior. They'll have to look at all the details, you know, surrounding, you know, were their phone calls, are they at odd hours, you know, were there text messages or other sorts of exchanges that proved that he was aware of any type of information? Family, you know, especially parents, I think, always want to see the best in their children.

You know, I've seen it with multiple cases, you know, that, oh, not my son, not my daughter. They're going to defend their children regardless and support them. And that's kind of the role of family. So it'll be interesting to see if there was any awareness of what was going on or not. All right. Great. Big T. have anything else? I think that's it. Okay. Well, thank you very much for joining us. It's Elena Burroughs.

You can see her. She's going to be on the Idaho College Murders. It premieres Sunday, March 12th, 10-9 Central. You can watch it on ID or you can watch it. You can stream it the same day on Discovery Plus. Check it out. It's going to offer a critical new perspective into the night of terror in Moscow, Idaho. So thank you for joining us.

We appreciate it. All right. Thank you for having me. All right. Have a good one. Me too. Bye. Helena Burroughs was brought to you by our very good friends over at Sport Clips.

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On Thursday's show, we're going to do the disappearance of Malaysian air. Sweet. Malaysian air. There's going to be a documentary coming out, I think, on Thursday. On Netflix. So that'll be good timing for it. So we haven't seen. We won't have watched a documentary when it comes out.

There's plenty of other stuff that you can watch out there and read up on it. It's a fascinating case, especially if you're a, what's a word for like, am I an aviation enthusiast? I think you are. You're a pilot. I'm a pilot. That's true. I'm a pilot.

But if you're interested in mysteries of any type, I would highly recommend studying up on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. It's a plane that disappeared. Still hasn't been found. Maybe a couple traces of it have been found. But some interesting characters involved in this disappearance and still trying to to get to the bottom of it so read up on that watch documentaries do whatever you can listen to podcasts wasn't there a couple disappearing planes Malaysian air was the well there was another one to air

France is that we're talking about no they found that one but it took a long time to find it air France was the one that was traveling from Brazil to France and it crashed in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean and that one is just I've I've read up on that too. That's when the tubes on the airplane. So on an airplane, when you fly, the pilots needs to know how fast it's going because if it goes too fast, then it can damage the airframe. You can't steer it as well. If it goes too slow, then it can stall out and you lose lift and you fall down from the sky. And so these tubes that are on the side of the plane, they measure the air that's coming through the tubes and use that to calculate air pressure to determine how

fast you're going in your altitude and if there's ice that gets in there it can fuck up the entire system and give you bad readings and so that's what happened to air france and the pilots even though they were told that the plane was stalling they kept pulling back to make the plane try to climb and what you're supposed to do is put the nose down so that way your plane will start going faster and then it'll continue to fly normally most pilots would have known how to handle that and the guys that were on this plane for whatever reason just they got distracted or nervous or whatever was happening and that's why that one crashed but that took like i want to say months to find the wreckage to that one because it was in the middle of nowhere um in the ocean in the ocean yeah do you remember Malaysian airline

flight 17 there was like a period where a bunch of Malaysian airlines would happen with that one it got shot down in eastern Ukraine oh yeah yeah remember that Yeah, they speculated that that was shot down by like Russian surface to air militants. Yeah. Crazy. And then I think there was another like something about Malaysian air. Like it was during that time a bunch of stuff happened to their flights. All right. We'll do some reading on that. And we will see you guys on Thursday for macrodosing. Love you guys. Hmm.