Macrodosing: Arian Foster and PFT Commenter - Happy Pi Day, Let’s Legalize All Narcotics Ft. Carl Hart | NANODOSE

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

Happy Pi Day!! On today's episode of Nanodosing, the whole crew is in the studio to continue the discussion on the Malaysia Flight 370 and its disappearance. We also get into golf, NFL free agency, the Ja Morant scandal and much more. Plus, the guys are joined by special guest Carl Hart. Hart is an American psychologist and neuroscientist and currently woks as the Mamie Phipps Clark Professor of Psychology at Columbia University. He is known for his research on drug abuse and drug addiction, his advocacy for the legalization of recreational drugs, and his recreational use of drugs.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/macrodosing

Hey, macrodosing listeners. You can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Yeah. Ari, when you get the chance, I actually have to talk to you about something. Well, we'll just start from right there. So it's a good thing that we've got a podcast. No, no, no, off air.

I actually, there's some stuff. You're so weird. Madeline asked you a very simple question when we walked in here and you were like, safe for the show, safe for the show. And now you, you won't save it for the show. No, I just have some follow-up questions to some stuff we talked about off air last time. Let's not keep, can we just? You think that you've clapped your hands. We can keep everything and we've said so, but we haven't said anything.

And time is deleted. Guess what? Guess what? I'll do it again. Yeah, Billy keeps deleting episodes just with his hands. Thanos. All right. Well, yeah, I guess just submit your fan fiction on what you think Billy wanted to talk Avery about. It's probably accurate.

Welcome back to nanodosing. It's March. This is March. We're back, baby. It is March 14th. Pie Day. Happy Pie Day, everybody. Oh my gosh. I know the 3.1415. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, okay. Five nine. Wait, don't stop. Stop. Okay. I want to, I want Billy and Mad Dog to text me individually.

The first, however many numbers you remember off the top of your head. I want to do it also. You're in? Arean, do you want to participate? 3.1415, that's about it. You got four? Wait, wait, wait, wait. No, spoilers.

I think I got point. I know 10. Bad radio. You know 10? Yeah, you're definitely going to. That's all I got. Okay, I just sent my Neo. Okay, I've received from Big T, Billy, and Mad Dog,

The winner. What the fuck is wrong with the Mad Dog? There's no way you type 25 back where. I have no chance. There's no chance. I have no idea if this is correct or not. Mad Dog just submitted.

I just pulled it up. Okay. Mad Dog submitted. And I'll say it out loud too. Literally, you don't, you don't, I won't even look at my phone. I'll say out of my phone. Okay, say it. Reset.

Resight, recite, recite, recite. 3.14-159-9-3-2-6-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-8-4. 462, 633. What's wrong with you? We had to memorize it in high school, and I never forgot it. You had to, what teacher made you memorize that? Every math teacher at my high school. We celebrated pie day.

Like, it was like the biggest day of the year. We had a pie eating contest. The bigger question is, why did they decide? When did they decide to cut it off? Because that shit goes on forever. Well, they were like, if you remember, I, it was if you memorize the first 25 digits of pie, you got like a free slice of pie at lunch that day. And obviously, that's where.

My motivations kicked in. So we always had to memorize 25 digits. And so it was one of those things that you guys know I'm weird with numbers. So I just never forgot it. It's the ultimate marathon sport memorizing pie because literally anyone can take it farther. Right. I knew a guy who knew 100. We had it.

Let's see who knows the most. We had a competition at my high school, like who could memorize the most digits a year and you were on a plaque. It was like every girl at least got a thousand that one. Holy shit. Yeah. This dude Haraguchi holds the current unofficial world record of 100, thousand digits a pie in 16 hours. What is that unofficial? What are they waiting for like the wind time to come in?

Akira Haraguchi. He was a retired Japanese engineer. He's known for memorizing reciting digits of pie. Oh man. There's got to be a trick to it. I don't think there's a pattern. Is there a pattern? That's why it goes on. You can no. You can probably write a sentence out and use the first letters of each word to signify a number and then you memorize that sentence and then you can convert it to numbers. I just memorize the rhythm. That's how your brain works, though, Russ. So you memorize the words. So you memorize the words. But there was like there was like a cadence in which it was like it would go up and then go down. That's freaky. That's like the preamble to the constitution. Yeah, same exact thing. Like you kind of memorize the rhythm of it. Yeah, but it's numbers. Numbers are born. So this actually this dude,

this is insane. So the event was filmed in a public hall in Khazaruzu east of Tokyo where he had a five minute break every two hours to eat on Agiri to keep up his energy. levels and even his trips to the toilet were filmed to prove that the exercise was legitimate and he did 100,000 digits he should have been dived up 16 hours he should have been wearing a diaper I don't trust the bathroom breaks hell yeah well this is our pie episode it's our pie episode we should have gotten pie it's 3.14 che is the presenting sponsor not just 3chee they add that extra 15% on there for this episode so it should be 3.15 15% 3.5 it didn't like it didn't like man don't worry about it it's okay it's all right we'll keep it going you should by the way

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All right, we're back on nanodosing. Big episode today. Dr. Carl Hart is going to be joining us. Neuroscientist. He is a very, very smart individual. into the studio, sat down, talked to us about drug use, about drug stigmatization, about the science behind addiction. Fascinating guy, he is in favor of legalizing basically everything. He's really kind of a true libertarian when it comes to that. It's like you get to decide what

to put in your body. Government can't tell you what to do. So fascinating conversation. So look forward to that. We do have a little bit of cleanup to do on Malaysian air from last week. Billy, you came up with your own theory on what he was doing? Yeah, I think he was trying to fly to the ice wall. Like, I think he was a flat earther who was trying to see what's beyond Antarctica and the ice wall to see if it's real. So he just went south and didn't think that he was going to run out of gas. Yeah, that was just a theory I had randomly that we didn't talk about.

And your theory that you had was because he was on YouTube. Yes. Okay. Well, because he... Wait, Billy, you're on YouTube. I'm not a flat earther, though. Okay, but so just so we're clear, the things. thought process was the pilot had a YouTube account so he was probably a flat earther so he flew

south to see if there was an ice wall no so watching the documentary because unfortunately we weren't able to watch it before we did the episode seeing a lot more about the pilot he was a big YouTube guy he was posting on YouTube how tos you could tell that it was his hobby like ut tubing so I could 100% see him being going down a rabbit hole getting caught in the algorithm and being like oh my god is the earth flat and then he's a pilot and he's like like been seeing, you know, the earth from a very unique circumstance. And one day, him just being like, you know what, I'm going to get beyond the ice wall. I'm going to see, you know, what's going on if there's other lands.

But also a lot of their theories in the documentary, especially about the Russian hijackers, Russia could have, like, if they were just trying to distract from the invasion of Crimea, there was a lot easier things they could have done than hijack an airplane and make you go missing. Yeah, also their entire premise behind why it was Russian hijackers was because there were three Russian people on the plane like that's that's pretty much it I think there was more I think that was probably the smallest

amount of different ethnic groups on the plane it might have it might have been we're really racist towards Russians yeah when it comes up to like skey things I hate to interject I don't fuck about that wrong word I meant to say xenophobic I'm increasingly seeing a lot of pro-Russia

takes from you am I am I reading this raw I'm not now that's a pretty good impression I'm talking about. We're talking about you. I don't know what they're talking about. Whenever Russia comes up, I notice you get this little, the hair on your neck stands

up a little bit and you get excited talking about Russia. Talk to me. Tell me more, man. I don't know what those you're talking about. He's very quick to be like, hey, what have these guys done, you know? Yeah. They just want sovereign state. There's nothing wrong with them.

We kind of provoked them, right? Are we so perfect? What do we? A lot of killers over here. Believe you me, a lot of killers over here. No, a lot of coos. No, I just, no, I'm all for the Ukraine. Like, the thing is, it's just, it's not as black and white as everybody's telling you.

Like, we just, remember, we just found out that a Ukrainian group blew up the Nord. That's a lot of quotes. We don't know who. Yeah. But just seriously, like, did we, did we find that out? It was a, it was a group sympathetic to the Ukrainians that did a whole underwater mission, an underwater demolition mission that was like, 10,000 leagues under the seat. Like, that's not like a, like a small terrorist group type thing.

But I told, look. Where has this been confirmed, though? That's what I'm, that's what I'm wondering. Literally, look it up. Okay. I just, I can't understand how you guys don't see what I see. I don't know. And I, like, knowingly and admittedly, don't know shit about this Russia, Ukraine.

I don't know shit. And honestly, don't really care that much. Yeah. I just be, it's me being honest. I mean, I care in the sense that, like, people die. Like, I care in the veil of, like, humanity. but like i'm not deep enough into it to look into it but whenever russia comes up you're very pro russia i'm not pro russia i just i just think you know free ukraine i don't want

russian imperialism going into ukraine i just think that everything we're being told like all this money we're sending to ukraine i just think we should look at both sides because it's not as cut and dry as evil putin i just think that we're being sold down the river on another military industrial complex like excursion that just like Iraq like you know like you'd be I'd be if it was 2003 I'd be taking the same position like hey wait a second there might not be weapons of mass destruction in Iraq that's the same type of like stance I'm taking and I just I'm looking at both sides okay well no I think you a more a more logical parallel would be uh the first Gulf war when Iraq invaded Kuwait then then you could be like well wait a second haven't

Aren't there a bunch of pictures out there of Donald Rumsfeld meeting with Saddam Hussein, acting like they were buddy buddy? Yeah. Where's all this adding up to? I'm like, I'm just saying stuff that's against the general narrative because I was right there like goes to Kiev. I was like 100% like fuck these Russian dudes. But then. You're in battle. Yeah.

Like I was like a hundred justice for the Ukrainian people. They 100% deserve a sovereign country. But it's not like we didn't fuck around a little bit. Billy's just asking questions. Yeah. Yeah, well, okay. So I'm looking at the confirmed report that Billy said. It's a new U.S. intelligence report. Yeah. So you're believing the United States intelligence community. Yes. The same one that said that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. I'm just, I mean, I'm just saying. They're saying that probably not confirmed isn't the right word to say. Okay, but what group on earth can conduct an U.S. officials, new intelligence reviewed by U.S. officials suggests that a pro-Ukrainian group carried out the attack. Now, what pro-Ukrainian group could have conducted an underwater demolition in the bottom of... Ward dolphins.

Yeah, but like in the bottom of the coldest sea on earth. Yeah, an Italian word dolphin. The only people on earth who could conduct something like that as covert is that is either the Navy SEALs or the Russians. And the Russians didn't blow up their own shit. So it's the Navy SEALs? Yeah, I mean... I thought it was... How do we make that leap?

How do we go from this happen to the only people that could have done it is A or B? How in a situation that's not black and white have you then had a subsequent event turned to very binary? No, the military capabilities to conduct sort of attack like that is not, it has to be a major superpower. You're not having like, you know, the Cyprus Navy or some random pro, like the Polish couldn't even do that because they don't have a Navy. their land law screen door submarines yeah like the polish navy is like a joke right isn't that like a long-standing joke like in there's tons of people who came out and said it wanted it happened and i was like looking there was a there's a doppler map or something i forget the exact like a aircraft tracking map that showed that when the pipe exploded there was u.s navy

helicopters around the area so like come on when there's smoke there's fire like let's not just be idiots i'm confused though you you said that it was a ukrainian group That's what they're saying. A pro-Ukrainian group can be the U.S. Navy SEALs. So the U.S. military. So you're saying that this is, they're doing an exercise in semantics right now. Yeah. Okay.

That's what I'm saying. Like that, like, that, like, would the U.S. Navy SEALs be considered a pro-Ukrainian group? 100%. I guess they could be. It could be anybody then. And like, hell yeah. But like the thing is, look, everyone talks about climate change as being a huge threat to human civilization. I think a nuclear war is a way bigger threat, like a hot war.

planet earth I think they can both be I think both they both can be but right now when we're in a war I think Putin pressing a button is way closer to the death of all civilization than you know starting your car engine okay oh man so that's you know what I'm just an alarmist let's move on yeah no I don't know I don't know I don't know I just don't know enough I just don't know enough I just remain neutral until the facts come out I just don't know enough I think you're making a couple leaps that I wouldn't make personally, but you may know more than me. I don't know, fam. I don't know if Billy's necessarily wrong that it would take a group that had

significant underwater demolition capabilities to do this. And so that probably I don't know enough. A little bit. What about Finland? Can Finland do any of this bullshit? Dude, Finland. Because there's one thing that I've learned from reading up on World War II, which I have been doing recently, is that the Finnish military is not to be fucked with ever. like they they fought both the russians and the germans in world war two there's that one sniper i think he's got 5004 confirmed kills a single finish sniper and he didn't even use a scope he no scoping people out here no scope he no scoped everyone because he didn't want the the glint from his uh from the scope to like reflect sunlight and give away his position so when russia

was trying to invade finland in world war two there was like there was like there were just some small roads that they could go down it's actually kind of similar to how they've been trying to get into ukraine where they were limited by the topography and the the geography and all that stuff the infrastructure so they could they could go through the forest but it was on a small narrow road and they were just surrounded by woods and they didn't have any good outdoor equipment to be using up there or at least not they weren't prepared like the Finnish army was where they were wearing like white uh full white get-ups they had skis if you're in the uh the military in finland you're supposed to be able to ski

so you can get around your countryside and so there was this one dude that was just the best sniper of all time that would go skiing through the woods find a spot, bury himself at a snowbank and then just start picking off German officers and Soviet officers Laplanders are some of the most fascinating people of all time

and they're the I want to say they're a reindeer herding people which like besides Helsinki like most of Finland is extremely like agrarian or their

rain like a lot of them are reindeer herders and their whole civilization like I saw this crazy video of how they like literally neuter their reindeer and literally they put their balls in their mouth and chew on them I'm serious

it was the wildest thing so what you're saying is there's a good chance that Santa Claus is the most deadly sniper of all time Yeah. No, no, no, seriously, I'll send you this video. It's like, it's part of their culture that they, like, use their teeth to literally, like, neuter the reindeer. I'm just going to say with zero facts or evidence supporting me, I think it was the, I think it was a Finn, the Finland military blew up the Nord Stream pipeline.

The prime minister of Finland is welcome to come on this podcast to discuss in person. I would very much like to talk to her about, about what's going on over in Finland. And get to the bottom of this situation. So open invite. geopolitically finland would not want to blow up the north stream pipeline their whole geo like their whole thing since the cold war has been keep nato happy and keep russia happy because they're in the middle and they're going to get fucked no matter what if something that happens sounds like you're a mouthpiece for the finished government i might be how do you do

both i feel like they do i once met a dude from finland and we were talking about like how the finland is fake stuff and then i was talking about i was talking about like you know when you guys in the military, like, would you do strategic exercises with NATO or Russia? Like, what was, and it turns out they would do both. They'd, like, do exercises both with NATO, with Russia. Their whole, like, stance was trying to keep everybody happy because all they wanted to do is, like, you know, pump oil. Like, Finland's been a huge tech hub.

That's been their new, their new move. I don't know. I had a conversation with the dude at a bar. It was, like, super interesting. Okay. So this is where this comes from. Yeah. And, like, if you drink in enough bars, you'll be able to,

become an expert on everything. I wish that all the cool bar conversations I've ever had in my life were recorded and then I could release them as a podcast because I think it would be some of the most fascinating shit or it was just fascinating to me at the time. No, that's really terrible. It's interesting. I just think that she should come on the podcast to discuss. It was awesome. Remember there were like two weeks where she would just get in trouble for going out to out to clubs until like 5 a.m. taking videos of herself dancing with her friends. I think there was more to those though. like she was taking dudes back to like the president's house no but it was there it was a more salacious story than like

she was just going to the club local woman has sex story i mean it is the president can't have sex this you just don't usually see single presidents like going out to the club and taking dudes back to the white house there needs to be more single politicians and single presidents like all around because this narrative of like the good old family that it's just stupid like most people i don't like it let's let's let's get single presidents so we then normalize the shit because we try not to know i think that's what i like

about trump the most is he normalized the presidency where it's like oh you're a human being that's wild dog you're not i remember what it was she was um there's a video she's like grinding on it's like a female model oh uh hilary that's a big fan i think she retweeted it then she retweeted say girls just want to have fun. Oh, did she? Yeah, I think it was like, hell yeah, Hillary. The Sammy, they're not called Laplanders. Lapland's the place, they're called the Sammy people. They're fascinating. I like watched a whole documentary on them one night when I was bored. All right. All right. We'll look into that. We're going to figure out what the hell is going on. Chewing on reindeer testicles. Like literally, that's, it's how they like castrated them.

There's some hard people up and scared of Navy. There's some badass motherfuckers. That's what I'm saying. pound for pound what do you think what do you think the most badass like who are the hardest people on planet earth oh the north senegal people the north centaulise wait north north north senegal or the ones

we can't talk to north centralese you think they're the hardest I mean they live in in the tropics but we're literally not a lot of even look at them because they like kill them with our bacteria I think they're candy ass I think that they could compete in this era yeah I think they play

in a favorable climate. I think that you get them in, you know, bare weather, you put them in real football weather. They need a dome on the road. Okay, that's fair. That's fair. You give me a battalion of like Siberian troops. They end up to food at home, though.

That's saying something. They end up to media at home. That's true. Thank you, Aaron. Nah, but this is like Texas A&M. Everybody, bitch, because they got a seven seed. They played nobody in non-conference. These guys have the softest schedule.

Dude, they've only played missionaries, bro. They've only played missionaries, bro. They've only played missionaries. There's been like two people on a boat that have gotten off, and they had a Bible, in a book. It's like they beat. And they got the ass clap. They're a big win. That's not, that's not, that's not dancing around the fact they're undefeated, though.

I don't care of any of they play. It's easy to win at home. You've got to win some games on the road. They beat Oral Roberts at home. Dude, one guy with several mags in an AK could take on the whole island. Yeah. So you catch an arrow from the side. I think, Bob.

not to sound not to sound like billy i think that i think russian people might be the hardest people no no no have you seen the videos the russians are candy ass nowadays they go outside and they they pour boiling water out their window and it turns into snow that happens in america i'd have to say chetchens the like the ethnic russian people have gone soft as fuck and they're disappearing from the earth because they don't have the the general the population i don't want any smoke well that's that's why normal russians that's why putin's all pissed he's like a world without Russia shouldn't exist

I shouldn't talk about Russia anymore Chechens, Chechens are the fucking hardest people on it Israel maybe Israel might be You think they're hard? Everyone's in the military Everyone knows how to use a firearm Their military is like badass

It's because we give them all their stuff Yeah, that's fine Like if they didn't have us Yeah I mean everybody in that country knows how to use a firearm That we sold them probably That has nothing to do

what you're talking about. Yeah, you're probably Israel without the U.S. Low-key overrated. Okay. Again, this has nothing to do with the discussion.

The Chechens would, I think Billy keeps going back to the Chechens are fucking. You probably, you probably never even talked to a Chechen in a bar before, Billy. Yeah, because they don't drink.

Really? Yeah, they're Muslim. They don't drink. They're fucking savages. Mongolians. Not in a good way. Like, they're very, they're like,

they're the hardest people ever. Like, they're the best UFC fighters, Comzot. the Chechens. Yeah, don't want to fuck with the Chechens. Dude, the fucking videos of the Chechens in Ukraine are just terrifying. What about, what about Mongolia? Hard ass people. I think they're, I think they're past their expansionist times. Former dynasty. They're like the, the pistons. Yeah. Like the bad boy pistons. They're like, yeah, we did been there, done that. They're just happy to chill up there. Also hard ass people. They've established themselves. Nobody's going into Mongolia. Yeah.

Like, no way, you don't hear about China trying to invade or Russia trying to invade Mongolia. Yeah, they're mostly another, um, hurting culture. They, like, worship milk. They like make vodka from milk. That's pretty hard. Yeah. That's really hard, actually. Like fermented milk.

We should actually get some and drink some to see what happens. Yeah. Because that shit probably makes you strong as fuck. All right, Mongolia's top. They're definitely top 10. Yeah. Who else would be in the hard? people on earth pageant uh i'm going to go innuits low key yeah innuits are hard people

who are they uh actually is that proper term yeah believe so in indigenous alaskans eskimo i don't know if that's our word for them or if that's their word for themselves i just know that we're more people are saying inuit now than eskimo yeah i think that's the bad one okay um that's Cancel the Edmonton Football Club. Yep. And Quinn. Let's see. So we're naming a lot of cold weather teams.

Yeah. For the hardest teams. I would think in terms of like the equatorial region. Yeah. I would say Mexicans. Mexicans are pretty hard people. Somalia. Yeah.

Somalia have to be pretty hard to survive there. What's the metric were you in? Yeah. uh there's really none it's just teams you don't want to play in the tournament yeah what about the congo congo beast and no nation oh man i guess you've seen that movie the original if we're talking about it's like people getting run up like on the north central these islands like i just don't like they have yet to be colonized like it's one of the last places on earth to not be colonized it's just it's crazy i gotta see them play on the road so there's a there's a there's

an AP poll voter for basketball who refuses to put any team in the top 25 until they've played a road game. So like a few years ago, Tennessee was like number two in the country, but they hadn't played. They'd beaten like Kansas at a neutral court, all these teams, but they hadn't played a true road game. The guy was like, they're unranked in my poll. Yep. That's me for the North Sentinel East Islands. They haven't played a road game. Oh, Samoans. Samoans. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Dude, Samoans. I'll try to get my vote actually. I've never played. Yeah. I had some kids on my football team We played on the West Coast

And they would just all talk about like how Mons are built different And how there's just awesome football players Yeah I knew a lot of them Super dope, loyal Amazing I love those people

But like you don't want to get on their bad side They can bang them Yeah They take family to the next level Where it's like if you don't Have you seen Have you seen full swing? Yeah

The funniest part of the whole shit is like, yeah, Tony Finao, they talk about him. And it's just like beat writers that's talking about Tony. And he's like, he's like, he's an amazing golfer. But I just wonder if him being a good father is kind of taken away from his golf career. It's just like, what are we talking about? Like the whole, I'm talking about everybody on the show just kept like dogging him because he's a good dad. And he likes his wife and he likes his family and he's banging for his family. They're like, yeah, no, he's great.

It's a great human. But, like, that probably takes away from how good at golf you could be. It's just funny, man. It's just hilarious. Yeah. Does he have too much perspective on life? That's a great series if you, if y'all ain't watch it, though. It's really dope.

Oh, it's so good. They just, uh, season too. Yeah, they should, um, they should actually do that more. It's really, it's really dope getting into the lives of, uh, I, I think, and I could be wrong, but Brooks, Kepka. My guy's going through some shit, Amy. He is, yeah. So Brooks is, he's seen better days right now. You can tell that mentally he's in a body.

I mean, I don't know if dye in your hair is an indicator, but I've never seen like a healthy version of that, like all bleach. Yeah. Yeah, just deciding to go straight with it out of the bottle. When white boys get the hydrogen peroxide out, something's going on. Sit down. Let's have a talk. yo m that's when i do miss jrug him i don't i'm happy he's sober but i miss drug em and him

i have uh i maybe this is anecdotal but in my from my perspective golf the last one to three years has been like the most popular it's ever been yeah and and tiger isn't playing Yeah, which I find really interesting. Like, I see more people talk about golf now than I ever have. It's kind of cool. And I think it's because a lot of the younger guys on tour, they grew up with Tiger as their guy, like Tiger was their idol.

And that's when golf started to become cool and started to become fun. So all the players that are younger that are starting to come up right now that grew up idolizing them, they're more fun people in general, too, because they were attracted to the game, not because, like, their dad played, but because Tiger Woods was the role model. I think what happened to a major part of it was golf in general,

so like the PGA Tour and all these people, they realized that we need to adapt with the times. Like all these old golf rules, like they kind of need to take a backseat to the newer generation if we want to keep and continue to grow our game. And so that's why you see like PGA tour like reaching out to like, you know, rappers or entertainers and celebrities and trying to like mince all the, all of the cultural stuff that is America with golf because golf has been a very secluded

in history has been a very secluded uh you know old boys network and if they want to grow the game they they got to continue to reach out to the youth and the majority of the youth can't afford to play golf like that so the the pGA tour has been doing a what i think is a pretty good job of like trying to brand it as this is the cool thing to do yeah part of my theory was COVID as well. Like that was one of the few things you could go do and a bunch of new people played golf. Yeah, it's probably true too.

Probably saw more people picking up the game. Do you think they should allow players to wear shorts? Yeah, that's another. I always wear shorts. I think the whole college shirts and shit thing is stupid and perfect. I think it's dumb. Should wear uniforms. I think it does look good.

I mean, the pants? Just the whole, just a golf outfit. Yeah They should go back to wearing those big puffy pants Oh the Jinkos Not Jinkos That'd be nice You're talking about like

Jack McLeouse's Yeah Jack McLeouse pants Yeah Yeah we're a kilt Ooh Yeah you should be allowed to wear a kilt on tour Probably a lot of players would do that More breathability

Yeah Is Scott Schaeffler Scottish or I'm making that up He is definitely well I don't know what his heritage is I would imagine Germans at some point but no, he's very much like... American. He's Dallas.

Oh, really? Yes. Okay. He went to the same high school as Matt Stafford and Clayton Kershaw. Got it. Did you know they went to high school together? No.

People forget that. Did you know that Barry Bonds and Tom Brady went to high school together? That's not true. Same high school? Don't... Not at the same time. Same high school, though. Okay, well, that's what together means.

Oh, well, same school. Yeah. They should... I think we're talking to Danny Woodhead when he was trying to... He was trying to qualify for the U.S. Open last year. And we suggested because he's, he's like real thick. Danny's got these calves, hamstrings, quads. He should wear yoga pants.

I think you're allowed to do that. Wear yoga pants when you go off. Or just joggers. We have breaking news right now. Jimmy Garoppolo signing with Las Vegas Raiders. Shut up. I thought you were about to say to Jets. Nope.

The Raiders. Jimmy G. to the Raiders. What happened? I'm so out of loop. I saw it. I scrolled on my time night. David Carr's with the Saints now Yep

Derek What's called Why did they let him go? The Raiders Because they owed him a lot of money And I think he wasn't happy there He wasn't happy at all With the direction the team was going

So I think they They kind of mutually agreed to part ways At the end of last season They binged him for the last couple games of the season And they had Jared Stidham play I grew up a Raider fan Like a big Raider fan of Derek Carr.

Huge, like whole family, except for my brother. He was a 49er fan. And so just watching the Raiders over the years and then being in the league. It's just interesting how bad management is. Like, it's a top-down issue. Like, they're just not managed to love for whatever reason. Yep. Speaking of the Raiders and the Jets, a study came out over the weekend.

You like this, Billy's a study about the NFL being rigged. Okay. there was a study they surveyed thousands of fans and one in six fans believe that the league itself is rigged if you had asked people that three months ago

that would probably be one and 20 but then erring corrupted people's brains so now it's one and six fans believe that the league is rigged can you guess what fan base is more likely to believe that the NFL is rigged than others

far and away well not far away you mentioned the Raiders and jazz I did mention those two teams. I was going to say the Cowboys. No, they've had too much success. I think have that? That's what you, that's what they had.

Since we've been alive. Yeah, Billy, you've been, you've definitely been brainwashed by the NFL media. If you think that the Cowboys are like the beacon of success. No, but like they've won Super Bowls. They have. In the past 50 years ago. 30 years ago. Yeah.

When's the last time they were? in a Super Bowl. No, but like your parents remember, 1995, I think. It's a long time. It's a very long time. I'm going to have to say probably the jet. Ooh, actually, the Jets and the Browns. Or the Jets and the Bills. This should be obvious. Is it Raiders because of like Tuck Rule? No, 36% of Raiders fans believe that the league is rigged. And that's not number one? It's not number one. Is it the Browns? Eagles. Nope. Number one. Is it the Canada Falcons. Of course. Really?

Of course they would believe. Yeah. I mean, it'd be tough to not believe that if you were a Falcons fan. I mean, yeah, there have been some. I think Falcons fans actually, they've kind of come around. I am surprised, now that I think about it. I find it mildly amusing. Falcons fans believe that the Falcons are rigged,

but I don't think that they believe that the NFL is rigged. How would one be without the other? They just think that the Falcons are just engineered to Falcons. I do think there is some sort of predestined, like a couple losses the Falcons had this year were just literally unbelievable. Like there was the one, it was, I can't remember if it was the Saints or the Panthers. Panthers. But they recovered a fumble that would have won the game.

Yep. The guy who recovered it, all he has to do is go down, the game's over. He fumbles. Yeah, I don't even think he got hit. I think he just drops the ball. The Panthers pick it up, kick a game winning field goal. Like shit like that. And it's been years.

Yeah. I genuinely like they've done it so much I find it kind of amusing yeah the falcons are rigged the NFL is not rigged but the falcons certainly are I could I could see that I guess second place is the Jets 40% of Jets fans 36% of Jaguar fans I think you can trace that directly back to the afc championship game against the patriots where miles jack got ruled down when he would have returned that for that fumble for a touchdown that year people forget Blake Bortle's beat Tom Brady in Foxborough to go to the Super Bowl. Yeah.

Blake Bortle should have been in the Super Bowl that year. Do you think that's crafted a greater, like, life stance that, like, since I think the NFL's rigged and the Jets have been screwed out of, like, tons of games that I think that the whole world's rigged, and I believe in a grander, like, conspiracy. Probably. Damn. I've actually... Thanks NFL.

I wouldn't put it past that to be a contributing factor. There's there's all these studies that have come out where it shows if, if you're a college sports fan, if you're college football fan and whatever team you root for in your state, if that team does better, then you're more likely to vote for whoever is currently in office to retain their office because you're like, well, I'm a Tennessee fan. Life's pretty good right now. I'm going to go ahead and vote for the person that's in power right now because I feel like my life is good. So there is some truth to having your local sports team influence your entire worldview. That's, uh, 33% of Cardinals fans believe that it's rigged. I don't know what they have to complain about. James Harrison taking it 99 yards.

Yeah, but that's not impossible. It's Kurt Warner. It's Kurt Warner. You ran in it, you got Kurt Warner. Stephen A. Smith is popping off on the timeline. He is. Stephen A's popping off. He apparently does not like strip clubs because he never.

like the smell. Mm-hmm. I don't know what Stephen A thinks that you do at strip clubs. What did you say? He said, now first, I want to say I am not one for strip clubs. I never liked the smell.

But if I had gone and they talked about my business as they did with John Morant, I'd never go there again in my life. That's probably fair. Yeah. Why did the strip club release those photos? I don't know who released the photos. but somebody from the strip club

went to the New York Post and talked about John Morant coming in. He came in twice that week and talked about how well he tipped and what a gentleman he was. So they were very nice to John Morant but you're probably not supposed to share that information there's like a code of honor that you have between strip club and client that you don't put that info out but the picture of John Morant is an all-time picture.

Aaron, have you seen the picture? Yeah, but that's not what you. what i was looking at i was looking at the floor covered every square inch in cash yes all the cash everywhere like he took his time decorating that room with all the money that was i'm sending it to the group chat right now look at all that cash that he put on the couches on the tables he he carpeted the entire VIP room with cash that's a that's a good client that's why they shouldn't have talked out of school about him because you want to make sure the guy goes up in arms about it. I mean honestly they probably some people are but I think I think more people

are up in arms about the fact that the strip club talked about it. I think if the strip club is probably trying to get good publicity to be like okay we're shotgun willies is in the news now's my chance to talk to the New York post about it maybe get some new clients in but I think you'd probably rather have John Morant stop in every time he's in town then have 300 new customers off the street that come in sit in silence and don't order anything so i have a little inside scoop on shotgun willies okay apparently shotgun willies is owned by the mayor of the town respect and he's made it that it's the only strip club that can sell weed and a couple other things let me look at the DM wait is this this is my first time

seeing this picture is that him in the corner yeah that's john morant and lady okay just want to Billy, have we vetted the source of this DM? The mayor of Glendale is the owner of Shotgun Willys, where Jha was. He made a law saying that Shotgun Willis is the only strip club that can stay open later than 2 a.m. And the only one that can sell weed. Mayor of Glendale, Colorado. Yep. Okay, I'm going to.

KB. needs to do a heat check on the mayor. I'm going to double check this. That's just the tip I got. But it makes sense. He was out there past 2 a.m. Billy, just the tip. I like that. All right, let's do teat-off, Big T.

So I had a teed-off, but it had then been surpassed by something else that I feel should be the teed-off. However, I don't want to engage in that conversation. So if Arian would like it to be Aed-off, I believe he knows what it is. So I'll turn the segment over to him. Adolf.

I don't know what it is, but I have a funny thread I would love to read. We were, we were talking about it before the show and said, save it for the show. All right, look, I get that Jeff D. Lowe got a lot on his plate. You know what I understand? Because every show, he got both teams and both fans of both teams at his neck for the lacklust of questions or whatever. the case maybe right but at some point you got to step in commission if we beat the number 16 who do we beat last the last time not this one not uptown balls two two games ago it was a top team too though it was Ken Jack's team and they was like number what they was up

i don't know up there easy top 15 right for top 11 we were we was 16 last week and we shot up to 15 after beating the number 16 and we on the street like it's like make it make sense and he says like it's the fan voting and fuck all that fuck all that it's nonsense i believed i'm not gonna i'm not gonna engage in this conversation but i do believe after the game jeff said quote macro dosing is going to shoot up the rankings he said we'll be he did say he would be top 10 but i'm not engaging in this i am i a thousand percent said that and and look Jeff if you're watching this, don't necessarily take it at beauty. Don't necessarily

to get a slight against you personally, but we got to fix the system. Something's wrong. Something's not right. And I'm just saying. Stop the steel. Some people are saying that the macrodosing account didn't tweet out about the fan vote, and that might have something to do with it.

I didn't even know there was a fan vote. Yeah, it's 50% of your ranking. What? Why is that? Why is this is the system? So that's on me why is the fan vote 50% of the rank that makes no fucking sense because you got a guy

you got a guy that you know has very too successful podcasts at barstool no matter what happens the fan vote's going to go in his favor well you guys are still a new team right the macrodos and trivia club is still new we should we're all rookies yeah let's you know I did get rookie

rookie I did you did you tweet it out I did I don't follow I was just aware that they had a whole account just for that shit. So I didn't even follow the shit to know that there was a fan vote or any of that. I'm still, you know, I'm two years in this podcast, but still kind of new to barstow and how it works. So I don't mean, you know, I don't take fault for that, but it should not be 50% of the vote. You think it should be 50% of the vote? I'm not, I'm not saying that the setup is fair or equitable right now. I do think that it would help in the future. Now that you know that

there's the fan vote and how, how big that is. Also, most of, most of, you know, most, the response to it has been people being like macrodosing snubbed you guys should be way higher than 15 so i i agree with that i think i think that if we do a better job of publicizing the fan vote next time that's on me i think you guys will move up to probably around 10 i hope we play you next i'm going to whoop your ass i don't care i hope we do some some you don't have the right well we did and he ducked us yeah i did yeah that was our first game Yeah, you get to do something. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I was busy. I forget what I was doing then. Some NFL news broke real quick. I want to get Billy's deck on this. I want to read. Y'all might not think it's funny, but I think it's hilarious. Okay. Billy, Mike White.

Yeah. He left you. Fuck. Dude, he was like a dolphin now. He was like a rock in our quarterback room. I don't know what they're doing. Unless we land Aaron Rogers right now, we're fucked. Yeah, kind of.

Or why don't we get, like, Lamar? Why can't we just give what we want for Eric? Don't you stay away from Lamar. Let's just get Lamar. You stay away from Lamar. Lamar is being, you know, Lamar is like a princess being held in the top of a tower at a castle. They're not letting him go.

It's collusion. He's a damsel in distress. The jet seems to sit here. No, I'm Mario. No, you're, you're, I'm not Bowser. You're Wau Luigi. No, I'm Bowser. You're Yoshi, actually.

No, no, but. I mean, unless I think, I literally think Aaron Rogers just, you know how when I met the Cincinnati mayor, took that time to take advantage to ask him about Harambe. Yes. I think that is what Aaron Rogers did with Woody Johnson just to ask him about the vaccine and if this was like a pandemic and if he was

in on it. That is 100% why he took the meeting with him. He has no like want to go to the Jets. No idea what he's doing. And we're just going to be stuck with Zach Wilson again. It would actually be funny to see like some some drawings, like some digital

drawings of us as Mario characters. like it's that shit but I think you would be Yoshi if we was to do this cast as Mario character you would definitely be Yoshi absolutely I would be Yoshi

that's just because I'm wearing green right now No I think you'd be to No he wouldn't be towed I wouldn't be towed Toad's not even really a toad You know he's a much of a turtle is he No who's Bowser oh yeah yeah

Who's Bowser No I'm thinking of Cooper Big T's got to be Bowser or or a couple yeah it's the same guy oh no Big Fees donkey com

oh okay yeah not because of the red hair just point that out there what does that have you have any digital artist that would be fired dog

everybody is oh we could just AI it don't you have the AI sometimes when they mince it just looks really weird it's not it's not it's not perfective

I'd rather have a human work on that yeah that would be hilarious you'd have to be I mean, unless you want to be somebody else. Probably Daisy. Daisy because I have brown hair, yeah. Yeah.

That'd be funny. Would you be Mario PFT? Either Mario or Louie. I don't know. Maybe a princess. You could be Princess Peach. Long hair. You could be Diddy Kong.

I'm not Diddy. I could be Funky Kong. Funky Kong was, but I unlocked Funky Kong on Wii. On like Super Smash. Mario Kart Wii. Yeah, Funky Kong was the best Because he's like Donkey Kong but he's funky

Donkey Kong was awesome Donkey Kong was always my go-to What if Lamar just went to the commanders right now I would love that Yeah, I would love that too very much I won Lamar Why don't, yeah No, you already, you got Aaron

You got on a plane We have nothing You went out and you begged Aaron Rogers It was disgusting which I You went out You subjugated yourself You'll please Aaron please Don't you want to play for the New York football

You know what sucks is Mike White is actually going to play very well for the Dolphins. He's going to be at home where he's from, South Florida, Mike White. And, you know, Tua, I'm not wishing ill on anybody, but he's going to get hurt again. And Mike White's going to come in and, like, win them a bunch of games, probably against the Jets. And it is absolutely mind-boggling how the Miami Dolphins for the entirety of their existence under the free agent system. has not just blown everybody away in free agency. No state tax. Miami, Florida, there's no reason why you should not have almost every free agent, dog.

It's wild. Yeah. Now that you mentioned it, like, I don't remember Miami Dolphins ever signing any good players. They should clean up in free agency. Ever. All the time. Ever. Now, no star running backs.

I was at the end of the, you know, I was at the end of the road. Yeah, I was a lot. You were washed. I saw today Jalen Ramsey's going to save $2 million a year by playing for the dolphins instead of the Rams. That's pretty good. Now that I'm in. Rams got fleeced. Now that I'm in the real world and I like understand taxes, I understand like, you know, different state taxes, kind of.

It'd be a good segment. Things Billy understands now. No, but like now I'm in the real world. He understands taxes. Sources needed. Back when now I'm understanding that like, oh, like tax and shit is in. involved in free agency decisions and like you know finances and deals and like all that stuff like it's actually like so arian when you decided the dolphins was it for all those things

he already wasn't paying state yeah i was already in texas yeah um i didn't want to go to like any cold weather place for sure um yeah it was it was more so yes somewhere where i i could I can relax and not worry about a lot of commute. That was another big thing for me because I was at the end of my career. I knew it. I wasn't going to play more than one or two years. So did you get tampered with? So the legal tampering window has opened up now, which is such a funny phrase,

where the league year doesn't start until Wednesday. But agents are free to negotiate with teams right now, starting at 12, o'clock Monday. So, um, it's, it's tampering if a team contacts you while you're still under contract by another team. So after you finish the season with the Texans, you were still under contract with the Texans until the day free agency started. Did you know where you were going to go the second free agency started? No, I don't, I don't recall. That was, we're talking eight years ago, man. Almost seven, seven, seven, eight years ago. That was a minute detail. I don't remember. because the general consensus is that most of these players know where they're going to go before

yeah i mean i've found the window it actually opens if there was ethical following people but ethical people following the rules by the book like that sir we cannot talk to you until 12 p.m. on monday no i don't think that happens okay let's do let's do erin reads a threat oh okay it's just a story it's just a messy-ass story that's hilarious kind of long All right, here goes. When I was 19, I was working at a restaurant, and one of the managers used to brag about sleeping with this married woman. She would come up there to see him all the time,

and he would fix her food for free, until one day Big Gail's husband came in there looking for my manager. It was an early morning shift, and it was just me and him working at the time, and I guess the night before, shit hit the fan, and Big Gail's husband found out she was getting skinless, boneless combos with the double meat for my manager. I knew something was up because my manager,

was usually talking of listening to music when we opened together, but that day he was acting real weird and kept looking out the window and I'm like Mike, you good? His behavior was making me nervous. So after a while, he was like, if somebody come in here looking for me, tell him I'm not in today. I'm scared as fuck at this point because Mike was an old school crypt, had the tat on him,

everything and everything. So I instantly think this is gang related. I forgot to mention he would brag a lot about sleeping with that lady, almost daily. She came in any time he worked, and if he wasn't there, he would always say, give me give her the employee's discount so at this point i'm actually cool with big gal and we kind of all know what's going on she said back to the day of he said tell him he said tell them he's not in but the

restaurant was very small and he was a cook you can literally see him right through the window and again just us there and i was the cashier so if he leave who's going to cook so it's so it's open time at this point i look up and notice mike's truck gone but he's still there so i guess he pulled it around back or the apartment complex next door. This let me know this is real serious because who are we hiding from

at this point? So maybe an hour later a truck pulls in hot. He didn't even bother finding the real parking spot and just whips it in and hops out the truck. So I know this is buddy Mike Dodger

and he is huge. Mike is also big but this motherfucker is bigger and he is obviously pissed. I'm sitting in here like these people I'm sitting here using these people real names. So he comes in and I'm standing there and I'm standing there nervous as hell

because we both know he not he's not there for no damn chicken box and the first thing I say is he not here said I folded I'm not ashamed to say it said I don't know Big Gail's husband's name came I don't know Big Gail's husband's name so we came in just calling him John

John came clearly and I'm and I can tell and John can clearly tell I'm lying because why would I just blurt out he's not here but he didn't even say a word to me yet I told and he said don't worry about it sweetheart we gonna find him and I'm like we he was talking about me showing him the back of the store since Mike not there but I will say since he referred to me a sweetheart I felt a little bit more comfortable to at least I know I was safe

sorry to Mike out of the corner of my eye could see a car pull up and it's the actual customer so I'm trying to stall because maybe when this customer will come in John will just leave and not make a scene customer comes in and I tell John sir we have to take this order and he stands back calmly and says okay and then I'm and I'm like wow I think we're good and I say oh shit we're Where to go? Oh, the rest of the story is just about to get good. Hold on. It's an all-time moment in podcast history there.

Maybe the biggest wind up ever for a story and right when it gets good. We have no idea what happened. Hold on, hold on. Because I clicked the shit and it has to go back to the actual page. All right. Hold on. It's load. Okay.

My bad. My fault. But we were not good. So I take the order. Cash the man out. Then the ticket prints out to me. Out of muscle memory, I turn around and put it in the window for the cooks to see, and then it dawns on me.

Mike, not here. I turned around and John's staring at me. So I'll fake mumbling to myself like, dang, where I put my apron, I just had it. I walk in the kitchen and start trying to throw this man order together. Thankfully, the first driver clocked in and came through the back, and typically our drivers knew how to cook too. So he come in loud as fucking. What are you doing on the grill?

Where Mike at? Like, nigger, please read the room. She goes, thankfully, the first. driver clocked in uh oh shit posted it twice um i say mike ain't here but i'm blinking mad mad crazy like okay and he said oh okay he needed

he needed his bank so he could have the change for his delivery so i go back to the front take the money out the drawer and john's still there and he like you know what john goes off i can't remember what he said verbatim this was happening real time for me so it wasn't very funny yet he said you tell that son of a bitch when i catch

that when they catch him i'm gonna fuck him up and you can tell gail husband said it I know his ass is in here. For context, they're all like 40 plus close to 50. Mike and I were actually cool. Knowing that work really liked him much, but I didn't mind him. He told me all this business with him and Gail, and even though he would brag to everyone else,

how she wanted her a piece of Big Mike, he was actually in love with Big Gail. It's a lot of details to their love affair, so we'll skip, but just know he loved her. And also, he also talked about how tough he was and how I found out he was a Crip, but nevertheless, he was running. So Buddy speeds off.

and the driver looking at each other and i start giving him the back story or what's going on he know about big gale already so it's really one of those it finally happened moments again mike bragged a lot the phone rings so i go back in to take the order i'm still the only cashier at this point and it's mike he said he's gone yet said the timer was literally precise like buddy pulled off and then the phone rang like yeah you good he said if you've been to this place it's a deck outside upstairs it's also a small closet that's really an office mike he said mike's ass was it was in the whole time watching from the camera with no audio he just left me for dead

so he comes downstairs and he's like what happened what you say and I lie I said man I told him you was out for the week you know I got you be like man thank you appreciate it good looking out he said I can't remember how Gail husband found out about him Mike but I'm pretty sure he confessed she was a real sweet lady

pretty sure she told him where he worked too hold on of course we're spread around at work again most of my co-workers didn't like Mike so they were clowning him He started clapping, talking about I was about to pop off on Buddy. A few days later, Big Gail come in, Mike in there. I'm thinking, you got some nerve, man.

But again, me and Big Gail cool, so she and I know that, she and I know what went down. She looked like she about to cry, so I feel kind of bad. She said she wanted to speak to Mike. He yelled out, tell her I ain't there. She can obviously hear him, but I still say, he said he's not here. So she just said, tell him I said, I'm sorry. She still order food, and I turn around and tell it to Mike. I didn't put it into the computer because we don't charge Biggale when she hear.

He yelled out, 715, so I turn around and say that'll be 715. I'm hurt at this point because we never charge Biggale full price or at all. She noticed, and at the end, so do I. She kept saying, you know I had to, Mike. He ignored her. I don't know if she meant to tell her husband or not. That's what I suspect. I didn't see her anymore, and not long after Mike moved to a close city.

I don't know if he was scared to see John again or hurt from Big Gale the end I read that shit and I was just fast it was just I was involved I just loved it it was amazing did you like get off to that what what the fuck I don't know what's no he said you know what's the fuck is you talking about I I don't know what's the point of the story I thought it was hilarious story you don't have to think of that I thought it was hilarious what I took from the story is there a less appealing name

in the world than Big Gale I don't even know I don't know if they name people Gail anymore I think that's done you should never call a woman big anything yeah that correct Big Gail is a tough combo though can you imagine if if there was a woman that worked here named

like Tanya and we called her Big T like it's great for a guy here comes Big T it's thundering down the hallway All right Big Gale Shout Big Gail I hope that she can find

Another place to get a discount Yeah I thought it was a funny story Man I'm sorry I didn't agree Sorry sorry Billy It's okay my No I thought it was funny My general rule of thumb

Is that people that work in restaurants Are all creepy and all fucking each other That's kind of always goes down If you've worked in a restaurant That's kind of how I've never worked in her People in restaurants are super horny. Dude, everyone's doing drugs, too. Yeah.

Like, at a young age, I was a bus boy, and it really exposed me to the real world of, like, how everyone's fucking and everyone's doing drugs. The line cooks in the back are supplying the drugs. The hostess and the waitresses are doing the drugs. That's why they're all peppy. It was a wild experience. Yeah.

Everybody. Yeah. People be fucking. You're doing drugs. Except for presidents. who are not allowed to fuck or do drugs or do drugs yeah my my real quick my original teed off

was just going to be that team USA is trash and we have no pitching you watched any of those games I watched a little I saw the highlights the bases are too small for me we're horrible I won't watch baseball unless they get those big bases do they not have the new MLB ones I actually don't know I'd assume that's what they're using

I haven't noticed but we have a good lineup right yeah but even last night they were all trash Yeah, it's baseball for you The pitching is terrible though Shame on all those pitchers Who didn't want to represent their country I want you to name names I'm disappointed in my guys

Max Fried and Spencer Strider I don't know if they were asked I would assume they were I mean imagine If you were to take actually Like the best pitchers in the United States right now You could have Freed Verlander Scherzer

DeGrom Dude Scherzer pitching in the world for the for the stars and stripes Corbyn Burns he would go out there he'd be a total psycho I mean we could not give up a run if we wanted to

yep it's a shame now we might not make it out of the group that's tough it's tough look very wait I don't know if I can trust this guy I don't know if I can trust this guy sitting in NFL news

this might this might be a fake account I think it's a fake account because something came across my desk Yep, this is fake Maybe I don't know I'm hearing that No, it's fake

It's fake, never mind False alarm I thought there was Aaron Rogers News breaking Well, what was the fake report Then he was gonna retire Didn't Brandon Marshall say that? I was scrolling on and he was like

Congratulations on a hell of a career I don't know I was saying On part of my take on Friday I was thinking about Aaron Rogers and how his mind works. And he could be the type of dude that would retire and walk away from $60 million.

Yeah. He could be because he could then say to everybody for the rest of his life, I'm the dude that walked away from $60 million. He would just do it for that reason? He would do it for that reason. Yeah. And he's made $300 million. So it's not like he's poor.

He's got money. I mean, $60 million is an astronomical amount of money for one year playing football. don't get me wrong, but I could see Aaron just so that he would have that ace in the hole to play on every, so we could look down his nose at everybody in the world and be like, yeah, I'm, it's, it's like, uh, I think he's actually in my scenario that I've imagined in my head, so I actually don't know if this is what Aaron is thinking, but he would look at the world kind of like he's the new Dave Chappelle where Dave Chappelle walked away from the

Chappelle show for, for 50 million guaranteed because he, he wanted to stand up for himself. I think Aaron would have, if there's one thing. I know about Aaron Rogers, he does like to feel better than everybody else. And this would be a way where he could always, he would ensure for the rest of his life, that he would, in his own head, feel like he had more integrity.

Harsh words. Is that harsh? Maybe he's doing something for the pure reason of getting one over on us. Yeah, exactly. Yep, I guess maybe that's a little bit harsh. And there's still a good chance that he comes back and that he plays for the Jets. I don't think he's going to play for the Packers.

I think that's pretty clear. I don't think they want them. There's got to be some huge discord for you to not want a quarterback like that. Yeah, I think they're just sick of his shit. They're sick of going through this every single off season and thinking, okay, well, what if this happens again next year? At some point, you've got to move on. And you could probably get a decent haulback.

Who would, Billy, who would the Jets trade for Aaron Rogers? I mean, maybe a couple wide receivers. Brees Hall Elijah Moore He wants out Like Maybe even sauce I mean there are guys

Yeah But So who would Aaron Would you do that No I Would you trade sauce Gardner For one year

Of Aaron Rogers No No I rather I rather get like a mid Like A worst quarterback No no

A mid quarterback That's just like Fuck Brock Purdy Hell I don't even know Like Mike White Would have been Like

wait wait wait you'd rather have brock purdy than erin rogers like if i like it because there's too many pieces to give away because the jets basically have everything but a quarterback we can just get some guy who can do a decent job and not just like that isn't a dumpster fire like hell like zach wilson is still going to be on the team don't bill like i'm not sticking with zach wilson but i'm just saying we just need fucking erin rogers you know you could have anybody but zach wilson really that's that's an upgrade Yeah. I'm currently making a meme of Aaron Rogers holding Woody Johnson hostage and saying,

tell me about the vaccines. Okay. I like it. And I'll join your team. I like it. Yeah. What if Woody Johnson, what if Aaron doesn't want anything, doesn't need to be paid? It's just take the Johnson Johnson jab off the market and I'll play for you. Yeah, I think it's. If he's really about that life, if Aaron wants integrity, he would play for free. And in his own mind, say, millions of people's lives maybe even save the planet yeah i i literally think that he is like was it a pandemic like tell me like what happened and i'll join your team what happened who colluded with you why are you on the epstein flight logs is what is whatie johnson on the epstein flight logs everybody is everyone's on there all right uh do we want anything else we want to get into i know

we've got this interview with dr carl hart coming up y'all's bank accounts still got money in them oh yeah mine does we might special coming on thursday extra dosing no thursday is when our normal episodes come out when would this come out like sunday sunday i feel like it's gonna kind of be old news by then yeah okay we can talk we can talk but last of us recap uh mad dog and i did it last time we're gonna recap the whole season talk about next season oh okay i'm cracking my knuckles you'd be nervous um and And we might get some financial advice. Okay, I like it.

So on Sunday, on Sunday, there's no new Last of Us? No, it's done. It's over? Okay, I haven't seen it yet. I got to watch the end. What streaming services is it on? I might have to run HBO? HBO.

Everybody can talk about it. Yeah, it's good. I like it more than most zombie shows because, I don't know, zombies to me are, I don't really get them. There's barely any zombies. But there's like, there's some, it's like possible. don't get zombies could happen i don't get them i don't i don't understand who got together and and was like yeah zombies are a thing so we're going to make the same thing as like vampires

and werewolves and all that shit yeah i'm not super into those either i like that this zombie story is based in the fact that there's like a fungus that could infect humans and then treat humans the way that that fungus treats insects that's interesting to me the fact that it's like plausible i don't I don't like movies where all of a sudden, like, the dead just kind of come out of the ground. Yeah. It's like, give me a backstory backstory backstory to why this is. I like you're reading it. It's really good.

It's a really good finale, I think. So any other, I guess before we jump in a Dr. Carl Hart, do we have any other cleanup from Malaysian Air? Um, I did watch, I watched the Netflix thing. The whole, yeah, the rush thing doesn't. make sense. Tell them why, tell them why, Billy.

Get off of Russia's back. But like Russia could easily just, no, Russia, if Russia really wanted to cause a diversion, they could have like planned terrorist attacks across Europe. Yeah, it seems like disappearing a plane would be tough to pull off.

Also, it is weird, though, that MH17, another Malaysian airliner, another 777 or triple seven, whatever you want to call it, got shot down and they lost two planes within,

what, four months? Yeah, I could actually believe like a switcheroo of the planes being more of a of something like if you were to tell me like they wanted to create a false flag

bring more people in so they had to steal a plane to crash a plane. Where do we stand on Blaine Gibson? Oh, total, total Russian spy. Do you think he's Russian spy? 100% absolutely an asset. He like this dude's been getting money from Russia for a long time.

Well, allegedly because you recall in the documentary, he did threaten to sue that other guy. Allegedly. For defamation. It's Billy's opinion that Blaine Gibson is a total Russian spy. Yeah. I think he's just an adventurer, Billy. I think he's what you want to be.

I know, but I wouldn't take money from Russia. You know that if you found yourself in this situation, people would definitely say that you're a Russian spy. I know. But he was literally showing up at beaches and just finding, like, oh, I'm at the beach for an hour. There it is. Yep. Like, if I had showed up to the East River and found a man,

bone and been like they like dove down once yeah and been like oh look I found a mammoth bone everyone be like that's bullshit yeah I would I would personally say that uh Blaine it I think he's uh he's an eccentric dude who I would love to interview and just see like where's what's his next big adventure all that stuff uh there was one part of the documentary where it talked about the flight that he planned to the southern Indian Ocean the one that they found on a simulator there's also a chance that he was flying a route and then he got up because I don't know dinner was ready and then he went ate dinner forgot to turn off the computer or turn off the program on his computer and then the plane just flew in a straight line until it ran out of gas

that's that's a pretty good possibility isn't it yeah I mean it doesn't indicate because the thing is his his simulator flight it wasn't like he was trying to mimic the exact circumstances where he could evade all the different communications like if you'd shown me that he was purposely you know going out of malaysian airspace then cutting to avoid Vietnamese airspace to avoid the radios and like perfectly like simulating how he could get away from any contact shut like and do all the steps because if he was going to do a dry run or he deleted the dry on somehow but i don't think they would have found it i also think that the press came off looking pretty bad in that documentary where they're just these families

that are trying to figure out what happened to their loved ones and then there are people sticking cameras in their faces like that's tough. That the part where like all the relatives are crying, that was tough to watch. Yeah. So unless anyone has anything else, I think we should jump into Carl Hart.

What do you guys think? I have a fire meme that's about to drop. Okay, fire meme incoming from Billy. Okay. This interview with Dr. Carl Hart is brought to you by C4. energy. It's energy that you can feel. It's the secret fuel behind macrodosing. I take it every time I go to the gym. C4 has zero sugar, zero calories, zero carbs with clinically studied carnison, beta alanine, and 200 milligrams of caffeine for elevated performance. No joke. Every time I go to the

gym, I stop by my local store, I pick up a C4. I've been on the frozen bomsicle. I've been drinking that one a lot recently. Hell yeah. Great flavor. I have one on my way to the gym. I've I've seen a couple macrodotions, actually, on my way to the gym. You'll see me. I'm walking down the street. I'm drinking my C4. That means PFT's ready to get it in. Get C4 Energy at C4Energy.com, Amazon, and retailers nationwide like Walmart and 7-Eleven.

And now here is Dr. Carl Hart. Welcome on a very, very special guest. It's Dr. Carl Hart. Dr. Carl Hart is a, you're a doctor. You're known for your research on drug abuse and drug addiction. you're a neuroscientist and a psychologist. Is that correct? Any other credentials I'm leaving out?

It doesn't really matter. I'm a father. I'm a taxpayer. I like that. You know, whatever. Thank you for your service. Yeah, that's like, that's, you know, that has become like just a throwaway line. You know, like thank you for your service.

Yeah. I did serve. Oh. You know, really, I didn't. I wasn't in any war. and I was a military police for a little bit, which is a bullshit duty. And I was also supply.

So when people say, thank you for your service, I don't think they really know what they're saying, and it just becomes this nothing lying. I was saying it because you said you were a taxpayer. I didn't know that you served. Right on. I didn't know that you served in the military.

I was saying thank you for contributing. Right on. Proud to be a taxpayer. There we go. That's something I'm most proud of. Right. So, yeah, it's great to have you on. We've talked about some of your work before on this show.

You are known for your opinions and your studies and your... Not my opinions. As a scientist, you know, the evidence drives what I think. That's a big difference. I know we got this podcast era where everybody just kind of shares their bullshit. But this ain't the same thing. here. This is facts. Facts based on the scientific literature. Okay. Well, you're known for your extensive work in that field. And I guess I have heard some interviews with you where you've

reached your conclusions from the studies that you've done and you're saying that these are the correct policies that we should be advocating for and the facts bear those types of things out. So actually, let's just like, let's back it up a little bit. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself where you come from how you got interested in in this field of study yeah so you know i grew up in the 70s the 80s grew up in miami um in the mid 80s i was in the military and the mid 80s the country thought crack cocaine was destroying communities like the one which one the which i come from and so uh i thought well how can i make a contribution and one of the ways i figured that i can make a contribution is to study neuroscience and study how the brain response to cocaine.

If I could figure out that, maybe I could develop treatments to help people struggling with crack addiction. And then I could help clean up some of the problems in my community that I thought was related to crack. And so I began studying neuroscience and here we are 30-something years later. Of course, I have a different perspective than when I started. I thought the problems were related to crack, but the problems were the same sort of thing. Employment, uneducation, poor health care, all the same problems that are here today. Like we said, the problems were crack and people still believe this dumb shit.

And the crack is gone, but the problems are still here and people still believe this nonsense. So what's interesting to me is one of the studies that you conduct, it took and for people that don't know it took uh drug users and and you and if i'm fucking it up uh you know excuse me correct me but you took drug users and you incentivized or or you you juxtaposed a more attractive um uh i guess uh not solution but an attractive substance which i mean money it could be concluded as that uh and you juxtapose that with the substance of choice of theirs and you and you found i don't want to you know mischaracterize your study so what what was your results from that's a great great point so that was a study published about

20 years ago and the idea was kind of simple we people were saying that okay if someone is has a crack cocaine use disorder which i mean addiction um they would only choose crack if you gave them that choice like a nice hit of crack versus something else and we had another alternative as you point out it was something that's little as $5. And what we found was that they chose money on about half of the occasions. And then when you increase the amount of money, they almost never choose crack. And so it just tells you that drug users can and do respond just as rationally as anybody else. And their behavior is sensitive to the same contingencies as anybody's behavior.

And so it just went against the things that we were saying about the power of crack. Right. And so what's fascinating to me because I have, I have these conversations a lot. So I'm like I'm an advocate for the decriminalization of all drugs. And, you know, I get a lot of pushback from that. Just from the shock value of, oh, my God, you want drugies walking the street. And I'm like, well, we already have that. And so, like, we need to find out other solutions. And one of the pushbacks I get is one of my homegirls who's a therapist, who's a little more on the conservative side. We were having a discussion about this recently. And she was, she brought up the point which, I would love to hear a perspective on, which, you know, I vehemently combated, but I would just like to hear your perspective on it so I could show to her later. But she was bringing up the point because she deals with drug abusers and drug users and people of all walks of life. And so she was saying if you decriminalize it, you're, you'd have to deal with the fact that you are actually incentivizing drug use. Like what do you say to people who, you know, posit that as a byproduct? Yeah, you know, it's a lot to say. It's really a dumb, low-level sort of perspective in that, first of all, you have to ask people to step back. The illicit drug trade is a multi-billion dollar industry. So the people who are supporting this industry, they have loot. They are the important people in our society. Otherwise, the industry couldn't survive. It's not poor people. It's not the people who don't have jobs. folks have jobs and resources. My last book, Drug Use for Grownups, went around the world,

got high with people in Brazil, the Philippines, Barcelona, all over the world just to see and show people like how this thing really goes down. You know, it's like, I go to work every day. I pay my taxes. I'm a drug user. You know, and so, and then there are far more people like me in the world, but they're in the closet. Right. Today, it's okay to say, oh, yeah, I experiment with psychedelics, some bullshit like that. And then you disparage somebody who uses heroin or crack when you're doing the same thing. And so the thing that I try to help people to understand is that it's already happening, and it ain't the people that you think it is who are doing this.

That's one. And two, if you say you're an American, you should know the founding document permits us to do this. The Declaration of Independence says that we all have this life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, those three birth rights. If that's the case, it means we can live our life like we choose so long as we don't prevent others from doing the same. And that's what it means to be American, fighting for other people's rights. So when we talk about patriotism, it means you fighting for other people's rights. And so this nonsense about telling people how to live their life when they're not bothering anyone. I don't understand why Americans don't really respond

aggressively against such paternalism. Right. It's an infringement of liberty at the bottom line. It's an infringement of liberty. My right to pursue my happiness as I see fit. You know, all of these sort of fundamental things that libertarians claim to care about. Republicans claim to care about. Democrats claim to care about. And it's like, it's bullshit. And I don't understand why we as a nation don't just call bullshit on this. Yeah, I think that there's, you have to have your head buried in the sand if you think that the war on drugs has been anything but an abject failure. Yeah. No, hold up. It's been a success. That's why it continues. There are a lot of people making mad loot on the war on drugs. People who claim to be providing treatment, many of those people are

making mad loose. We all know about the law enforcement. You know, you think about, I think about the derailment in Ohio, those poor people in the train. Those kind of places the rust belt of America, jobs left, the factories left. The only thing you have is the war on drugs economy. And so many of those people are law enforcement and now with this sort of fentanyl scare, we're feeding into that and creating jobs related to to that not to deal with the issue but just creating jobs related to that from the issue that we were told at the start of the war on drugs which was we're going to get drugs out of america we're going to clean up the streets all that stuff that part has been a failure that the what they

told us that the war on drugs is going to be about has not ended up working out not even one percent of what they thought it was going to be i was i was talking to big t about this a couple weeks ago because big t does he stands more on the republican side of things but If you just even take a look at what we've done to enforce the war on drugs, not in our own borders, but if we're talking about Central America, South America, the governments that we've destabilized down there intentionally to get our people in place, that's caused a lot of the immigration that's come to this country that now people are like against having those countries send their immigrants to us. But it's because of what our actions that we've taken overseas are

south of our borders that have actually caused a lot that this should be something that i think more people should we should figure out a better solution to because right now and i know that sometimes it's not always about like the solution that i think would be the correct solution you're an advocate for for legalized drug use um i do have a couple questions that we can get to about this is more than drugs this is bigger than drugs this is about people's right to live their life as they see fit so long as they don't disrupt other people to This is about abortion, bodily autonomy, all of these things. So this is just trying to get people to live up to the American ideals that they are

espoused. That's it. All right. That's what this is about. I got you. So let's talk. You brought up fentanyl. Fentil has been in the news a lot last year or two.

It's really, it's, to me, seems like a cheat code almost for newspapers out there. If they want to get people to read their articles, they'll write another article about how deadly fitness. And make no mistake, like, fentanyl can kill you and it does kill a lot of people, unfortunately. But in terms of the scare that's going on, can you tell us from your studies that you've conducted and that you've looked at, is there any day?

If I had a bag of fentanyl in this room and I just opened it up, would any of us in this room be in danger just by being in that same room? No. So I should take a step back. People should understand that. Fintinil has been an FDA-approved drug for about 50 years. So it's an improved medication. In fact, my nephew had cancer, and so he was given fentanyl.

I mean, fentanyl comes in a lollipop preparation in some cases. So it's a safe drug when people know what they have. Now, fentanyl, the thing that concerns me is that if people think they have heroin and they have fentanyl. So that fentanyl is a lot more potent, meaning that it takes smaller amounts of fentanyl to produce an effect. So if you think you have heroin, you might, I don't know, snort a larger line or inject a larger amount thinking that you have heroin when in fact it's fentanyl and then you've taken a really large dose of fentanyl and then you might run the risk of overdosing. But if you know you have fentadil and you scale back, it's not a big deal. And this notion of, oh, fentanyl is in the room, you might breathe it. That's some cop propaganda bullshit that they use in order to frighten the public and increase their budgets.

And this continues to happen and the American people keep falling for it. And so I don't even know if people even care if it's true or not. I think it's a way to support the cops or support those people. who just say they're going out the drugs. They need a new tank for their local police department. So they're like, there's a scary new drug that's out there. A new tank, increased budgets, you name it. You know, and by the way, and I don't want to hate against anybody

for, like, having a job, because you want people to be employed. But you don't want people's employment to be based on the subjugation of other people. Mm-hmm. All right, so you talked earlier about traveling to different countries, taking different drugs and different people around the world. What are the best experiences that you've had in the first experiences that you've had in the travels. Oh, so right now I live between New York and Geneva because I can't live in the U.S. full time because of this fucking hypocrisy. So when we think about like the best experiences,

I mean, my experiences are very great experiences for me is being altered in Geneva in my Geneva apartment and writing. And I live next to a park and walking in the park late at night. Nobody's there. It's a city of 200,000. Nobody messes with me. I just chill in my head, creating things that I write. And those are the best experiences for me alone. That's cool. That's very good. What about you mentioned South America. Ayahuasca has been a point of discussion recently. Have you ever, have you tried ayahuasca? No, I haven't done ayahuasca. I've done just DMT, the major component, but not ayahuasca itself. So, you know, I'm really happy that people are having these experiences and that they're talking about them. The thing that worries me about this old psychedelic sort of renaissance, if you will, is that they don't realize that they're altering their consciousness, just like somebody smoking crack, just like somebody using heroin. And they're all seeking the same thing.

Somebody might be talking about God. other people be talking about relief from you, whatever, but it's the same thing. They're all seeking the same thing, and they just use different languages, and we're figuring out a way to use psychedelics to actually create even more barriers between people. And if anybody's ever, like, really gotten high

and really thought about things, how can you think about separating yourself from other people as opposed to seeing how you are connected to other people that's what this is really all about so i think that's kind of like uh uh an advocate though i think if if we want to change things we have to change like the social fabric and the social consciousness right and so i i don't necessarily view the psychedelic renaissance as you coined as a bad thing i look at it more like okay people are starting to become more open to the fact like even you know weed is starting to get legalize the local levels in certain places and pockets.

So I don't necessarily view it as a bad thing. Yeah, I don't, it doesn't have to be a bad thing. It's just unfortunate. It's playing out like a bad thing. I'll give you an example. People say stupid shit like, oh, I'm doing plant medicine, stuff like that. Don't you know the ultimate original plant medicine is the opium poppy? You know, where heroin and morphine come from.

But yet they don't think of these drugs in that way. All the drugs that we take come from plants. I mean, that's what this is about. So when people are doing, they're using this language to create divisions. Let's think about ketamine. Ketamine is based on just altering the PCP structure. They produce very similar effects. PCPs effects last a little longer.

The public narratives surrounding both of those drugs are wow. wildly different. Right. I mean, police narratives drive PCP sort of story and we believe these crazy, this crazy nonsense when in fact the drugs are quite similar. And I think about MDMA on my shirt, I have methamphetamine. This is the methamphetamine structure. You add a little ring here, it becomes MDMA. They produce a lot of the similar effects. They have divergent effects as well, but the narrative surrounding these drugs wildly different. So I think one of the big pushbacks I get from winning, because I have a very similar train of thought as you obviously not as well versed into sciences behind it, but you know,

I read what I can and develop my worldview accordingly. But I think one of the biggest pushbacks I get from people is that they're, one, they've fallen for the boogeyman of people who use drugs are just these, you know, drooling people that just want to rob and create havoc right when it's obviously not the case if you've been around it but i think the the other narrative that that people fall for all eyes have to combat is um i think people um in general want to um stigmatize drug users in in that same in that same box um and how how have you found or how how do you have you how do you how do you convince a public that has an idea of what drug users are versus what it can be because I think there's

a regulatory aspect of the decriminalization of drugs that has to have any kind of balance in that situation. So how have you found like that aspect of it versus, you know, your own ideas of how to regulate if we do ever come to that point where we do decriminalize it? Yeah, man, that's a good question. And, you know, you're asking a question like, how do you, like, help people to understand, continue in this fight and bring people along who might not yet get it, but we'll get it, you know. And so how do you be patient and those kinds of? It's a very difficult question because, you know, I'm 57 this year, and I've been doing this for more than 30 years and you get tired.

Yeah, that's the vibe I'm getting. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm very tired. And then I try and think about, like, other struggles in the country where people have just looked to the Declaration of Independence. I think about the struggle for sexual equality. I think about homosexuality, all of these kind of things. And people were just saying, we just want to enjoy our rights. That's it. You know, and then it took the society a long time to get there. You know, even like we disparaged people who were gay and we imprisoned them and did all of these sort of things. And now we recognize their humanity. It's not like they didn't always have humanity, but we only recognize them. So it's like when we think about drugs,

will it take that long? Will it be that? And so I try to write. I'm writing things. I try to do these kind of things. when I would much prefer to be in my Geneva apartment chilling. And so I'm trying to stay connected, I'm trying to continue to write.

I have children who they have to see me fighting, so they have a model of what it looks like, you know, and although I would really love to retreat, but I can't because I think of my kids and their struggle, and that's just part of life. So I keep going. Some days are better than others, but, you know, I'm a human and, and, you know, I've heard all the arguments, all the dumb shit. And, but the thing that I just try and get Americans to understand is that what it really means to be American.

It means that, like we say this bullshit, like, we're the freest country in the world, in part because of the Declaration of Independence, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Like almost every Democratic nation now has some wording related to that. Even Russia has some. And so we try, I'm trying to get people to understand like, is this just virtue signaling or is it real? Can we make our promise, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, match our practice? That is, so I try and keep it as basic as that. So they will have all of these arguments. What about these people who are on drugs and harming people?

We have laws against harming people. You can't do that. We already have laws about that. So the vast majority of people who take drugs are not harming people. So do you want to harm them? Do you want to suspend this promise? You know, so I try and get people to think about just the basics. It's like, are you who you claim to be?

Yeah. that uh it sounds to me like you're you're advocating from the standpoint of uh it's not the government's responsibility to tell you what you can or cannot put in your body and that's a very like even platform that you have that's you don't waver be bipartisan you don't waver from that whatsoever because when i when i was talking to arian about legalization i would my concern was going to be that uh yeah you can if you have heroin that's available at a cvs you go and it's it's It's easier to overdose on heroin than if you don't know what you're doing, then it would be for somebody to go in and buy a bunch of alcohol and overdose on that. I feel like it would be more dangerous as a whole.

But what you're saying, you're not talking about, about any of that. You're saying, like, across the board, that's society's problem that we need to educate people about what's dangerous, what's not. It's not the government's place to step in and do that. Is that a fair characterization? Absolutely. I mean, like what alcohol, every year, 100,000 Americans will lose their life related to alcohol. A lot of that will be alcohol withdrawal. People abruptly discontinuing alcohol use thinking that they're doing the right thing and alcohol withdrawal can be deadly. Like heroin withdrawal is not deadly typically, but alcohol withdrawal is. And so we don't ban alcohol because of that. What we try to do is we try to. educate people. We try to make sure that we sell it in unit doses such that people don't harm themselves. We can sell heroin in unit doses that will decrease the likelihood of people harming themselves. We can have a requirement before you purchase heroin like we have with

the driving in this country. You have to pass a driving test. You have to be a certain age. Every year, 40,000 Americans will lose their life on our highways. We don't ban cars. We just try to make sure that we make it as safe as possible. Right. Speed limits, brakes, all of these things, training people how to drive. Yeah, you know, Dan Rather did heroin on the air one time. That's a fascinating story to me. It was back in the 70s, I believe. When he was on the radio, as a journalist, he wanted to describe what this drug was

that was, I guess it was affecting a lot of people returning from Vietnam. I didn't know this. Yeah, so he, under the supervision of the sheriff, he put himself. in a recording booth what what a supervision of a sheriff it should be a doctor i was just about ready to like be like man i prosecute you dan but i if you get too high i'm gonna arrest him he described kind of what he was going through and it's it's it's fascinating if you go back and you listen to it i think there's also transcriptions that you can read on it but yeah uh squeaky clean dan rather mr news shot up heroin so just to uh put a stamp on that point uh

So William Burroughs. Do you guys know William Burroughs? The name is familiar. He's like the guy. He was a writer and people, he was a heroin addict and the public respect to him and liked him. And so his description of heroin use became the national description. And so we have these sort of ideas about people who use heroin. And it's largely wrong based on that kind of stuff.

So I just wanted to like people have these. notions about people who use heroin, but if you've had a toothache and you've been prescribed something like Percocet, you've had the heroin equivalent. So it's not all of this sort of drama that we see in the film. That's one of my major points to people, is that because they're like, because they're super like, well, heroin's so addictive. And I'm like, fam, it's possible to do heroin and not be super addictive, but just enjoy your day, right? Because I used to play ball, right? And so I've I had over 14 surgeries. Yeah, no, you were one of my main heroes.

I was running back, too, from Miami. So, you know, Miami football religion. So I know a little bit about your story. Thanks, much love. Mad props to you. Much love, much love. So one of the things that I had after every surgery was morphine, right? And so they would give me morphine.

And it was just one of the best feelings that I just loved the feeling, right? So much so is like I had a pinky injury where it popped out. And at the end of a season, I had a knee surgeon, like, do you want to just clean up the pinky? And I was like, yeah, fuck it. And the main reason was like, I want to have the morphine at the end. And I have never had the desire to go out and get heroin. I've never had the desire to recreate that feeling other than just when I have a surgery, I enjoy the morphine. And I feel like the stigma behind drugs is you're just going to get hooked.

You have to. And that is, it can be a byproduct, right? It can be dangerous. Absolutely. I would not advocate otherwise. But I think the way in which we demonize it, it disallows us to educate people on its positive effects because it can be, it can be a joyous experience. Like I was like, I always tell people, find me a close-minded person that's that does drugs. It can't happen because you just experience the world in a very different way and in a very different, through a different world view.

And I feel like I have gained so much from drug use. I've done hallucinate gins. I've done weed, alcohol, all this stuff. But at the end of the day, I've never been hooked on anything. And that's not a, you know, deterrent because people can get hooked on this. I want to emphasize that. But I've had a very good experience with substances. And I think that it just needs to be marketed in a different way because we've been marketed to by our government.

We've been marketed to by people who want nothing but profits and have incentive in jailing people for this shit and i just think you have to look at what market has done this country in general and then when you market drugs it's just a recipe for disaster and it has been Adrian man you you make me laugh i'm glad you really are doing this and you're sharing your story but you all you always emphasize that um i'm not saying that you can't get addicted you always you always put that in the punch around yeah so uh it's like having sex be like it's great but you don't have to say i'm not saying you're not getting addicted, you know. So we're always forced to say that. It's like, no shit. Anything we're

doing, you can potentially get in trouble with. That's life. But the society has forced us to say that, that kind of thing. But the football thing, too, is an important one that you were just laying out that I think, like you were saying these surgeries that you had in this dangerous game that you played, right? I mean, the goal is to take somebody's head off, obviously. And in our society, we're cool with that. We're cool with mixed martial arts. And the goal is to take someone's head off. But the goal of the drug use is not that.

It's to feel euphoric and better, but we're not cool with that. Not to say that we should be banning athletics in any kind of way. People should have the right to enjoy their liberty, their pursuit of happiness. but the inconsistencies just blows my mind. I'm saying, I'm with you. I mean, I talk to Joe, Joe Rogan, who does this sort of mixed martial arts thing, but yet there is some trepidation about drug use.

It's like, what the fuck? You sitting here beating yourself up on a daily. Somebody who is cognitively impaired from the activity that they're participating in. Not from drug use, but from getting banged in the head. And so I'm like, boy, this country, it blows my mind, the inconsistencies. Yeah, I'm 100% on board. I want to let these guys ask a couple questions over here. Donnie just walked in. He's wearing the sunglasses right here. He's going to ask a question. Then we'll kick it over to Big T and Billy afterwards. But Donnie has traveled all

around the world, taking many drugs. Various substances in various countries. It's nice to meet you. You too, Donnie. Two questions. The first is about Xanax. I know on the Joe Rogan podcast, you talked about how you can die from alcohol withdrawals, but I know Xanax is the other drug where you can die if you just quit cold turkey. And to me, like that has always seemed like one of the more dangerous ones because you can just build up a tolerance so fast. And then if you just quit on the spot, could have seizures and even die. But do you think there is like still a role for Xanax to treat anxiety? Or do you think there are much better way? ways to do it. Of course, you know, there are people who, first of all, let's take a step back.

In order to experience Xanax withdrawal, one has to be a chronic user and escalating doses over the periods of time. So you have to actually really work. And so that can happen with all of the benzodiazepines, Xanax, Valium, liverym, all of the benzodiazepines. Also, that happen with the barbiturates, which we don't use as much. So barbiturates, alcohol, benzodiazepines, the same kind of thing can happen. But it requires a lot of work to get to that stage. And once you're at that stage, it's relatively easy to wean someone off long as you know what's going on. And you warn the person not to abruptly discontinue their use. And so if we think about whether there is a place for benzos in therapy, of course there are. There are people who are,

who have been safely maintained and they enjoy their benzos. And I worry that if somebody, somebody had a problem with benzodiazepine, something like Xanax, so now we should ban Xanax. And we did the same thing with the opioids. And now these opioid pain patients who have been doing well in life, now all of a sudden are being taken off. They can't get their medication, some are committing suicide. So if you have these tools, why not make them available? You just have to be responsible when you do so. And then one more question. When I was living in China, I tried a drug called MCAT. I think it's short for methadrone, methylcadamine or something like that. I really enjoyed it. I had a positive experience on it. But then I learned that that same

drug it's like sold legally in some foreign countries as bath salts now in the u.s most of the stories we've heard involving bath salts involve someone in florida eating a guy's face off or something like that which was not true and when they did the toxicology the only thing they found in his system was t hc yeah yeah yeah so that's what i was wondering do you think so yeah do you think um those problems in florida just stem from mental health issues and that bath salts have gotten a bad rap well i'm from florida so i can't dis florida too much uh the you know florida's florida uh and so people are going to be eating faces regardless yeah so the issues with that cat i don't know what happened with that dude you know i really don't

that's one isolated case um and we can take an isolated case and make whatever story we want out of it but But what I do know is that the catheterones, the drugs that you're talking about, the synthetic catanones didn't play a role, and the synthetic cathanones produced, many of them produce, I wrote about this in my book, doing these drugs in Barcelona. Many of them produce effects like MDMA, shorter lived, but many of the effects are like MDMA. In some cases, like hexadrone is like cocaine's effects, but it last. longer than cocaine's effects. And so I talked about this in the book.

I'm a fan of the catheterones. So same here. Thank you, Donnie. Yeah. Appreciate Billy. You have a question? My questions regarding you talk about the psychedelic renaissance and not wanting to call, you know, say these drugs are good, those drugs are bad.

But I want to hear your thoughts about like the varying degrees of addiction a drug can cause and how is there actually any merit to psychedelic. helping people with alcohol, addictive disorder, or is it like if you have an addictive personality or genetics in your system where you shouldn't try drugs at all? Or are psychedelics just as addictive as those other drugs? Yeah. So first thing we have to do is take a step back. The thing the first thing people should know is that the vast majority of users of any drugs, from heroin to cocaine to psilocybin, the vast majority of users, of any drug are not addicted and they won't become addicted.

So that's number one. If that tells you that the majority of the users of a drug do not become addicted, then you can't blame the drug. You have to look beyond the drug when you do see addiction. And then you have to think about, so what is, what do we define as addiction in medicine? So addiction is defined as like the social disruption of psychosocial functioning, if you will. feel like people not going to work, people missing their family obligations, people putting themselves in harm's way when they take the drug.

So there's a number of symptoms that the person must endorse and the person must also report being distressed or impaired by those symptoms. And then when you have those two components, then you can, you have someone who meets criteria for addiction. So that's what addiction is. Now, when we think about... So real quick, addiction in itself isn't necessarily an objective black and white thing. Is that what I'm hearing correctly?

There's not a biological sort of substrate or marker of addiction. Okay. Instead, you know, a clinician has to do a thorough assessment and making sure that these people have these type of disruptions and this person is distressed by those disruptions. And that's how you define addiction. So now we think about like, okay, are there biological markers of addiction? No, although people will say all kinds of nonsense, ask people to show you the data that support that.

But that doesn't mean that addiction ain't very real because it is. There are people who experience real problems. But the real issue is that you need to do this assessment to see what's going on. on in this person's life. Like, for example, you can imagine someone being subjected to chronic, unrealistic expectations. Like, I don't know, a child who was a star, and they supported their whole family, and they were always expected to do that. Now the money is kind of drying up because they are not so cute.

Whatever the case may be, you can understand that person might have some problems in life. someone who had a middle class income made six figures put was put in their family through college and now the jobs are gone um you can think about the middle of the country uh the jobs they left and you can see the problems that people might have so you have to look at all of that situation but what the country is so comfortable in doing is saying oh it's opioids oh it's this drug and in that way we don't have to deal with all the problems that people face and and we fall for it every time so follow-up questions of that so let's say someone drinks too much drinks repeatedly every day you know lose their job they have a drinking problem it's it's it's you know maybe you

know whatever issue it is they then so if addiction as you're saying is almost uh not a like a real not saying not a real thing, but more of a symptom of a mental health issue or an environmental issue, would that person do you believe be able to cure themselves of whatever that situation is and then responsibly drink again? Oh, absolutely. I mean, there are data showing that people they've not necessarily cured themselves, but they may have gotten help and they figured it out with the help of the therapists or what have you. And they drink now. So this notion that like Once an alcoholic, you can't drink because it's a downhill spiral. Again, there is no evidence to, like, really support that.

But that's in the public sort of consciousness as it's a real thing. Now, I want to be clear, people who had a drinking problem and decided not to drink because they don't want to risk it, that's great. I'm not saying that you should go out and drink. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that the sort of support. for that notion is almost non-existent in terms of the scientific literature. That's what I'm saying. So a lot of what the stuff that, you know, Alan on 12-step program preaches, you

fundamentally disagree with. I have to tell you, like the AA model and so forth, it's really good in the one hand because people get a chance to interact with other people. You know, you need these social connections. And I think it provides. that. But the stuff that they say about drug use itself, now that's a whole another story. Yeah. Yeah. No, but not that it doesn't work, but just like you believe that like people can drink again after that's very interesting. Of course. Yeah, just imagine somebody, I think like sex and having an orgasm, there are people who have problems. They, they, they overdo it. And then it's like saying, well, I'm sorry, you can't have another orgasm because

you get too crazy you know come on that's that's actually so interesting that's a it's a interesting point because yeah people do go to treatment for sex addiction and part of that treatment is not like okay you're never going to fuck again exactly like that's not they don't they don't tell you that you don't get a chip for okay i've been six months without fucking yeah so we we are allowed to spend our reality when it comes to drugs uh and that's a bad thing but we do it in our movies our comedians. I mean, just from here on out, when you guys watch a movie and there's a drug involved, you will see that the director or the writer never has to develop that character. They'll just say something and you are supposed to believe it. And you oftentimes do. A comedian, Dave Chappelle,

is really widely known for talking about crack and Tyrone, this bullshit. And the society believes it. But what actually is happening is that he's reinforcing the awful stereotypes about a group of people. That does not comport what reality. And the people believe this nonsense. It's interesting. I had never thought of that. That if you watch a movie and a character does a line of Coke in one scene, it's always in your head like, okay, well, this guy's a coke addict. And he has a problem, not understand that there are millions of people who casually use cocaine, that it doesn't change.

their entire that's not who they are as a person but it's definitely now that i think about it's i think that's very true um big t i want to be respectful of your time too we had you until 1 45 you know i'm enjoying this okay you all got me talking now and i'm in i'm at home so all right i just want to make sure you cool with it um big tea you have a question for doctor yeah so i i haven't read your book yet i want to um but i listened to a lot of interviews you've done and one question i wanted to ask was about the opioid crisis. I know you disagree with that phrasing. I don't want to use the word dismissive,

because that sounds harsher than I intend it, but you've been critical of that, you know, narrative, I guess. So I'm just curious what you would say about that and the causes or, you know, just your overall thoughts. Yeah, I mean, I wish I could be as careful as you phrase your question, and that's how you should do it. And I, and so you remind me to be patient when responding. So thank you. So you're absolutely right.

I have been suspicious and critical of the story. And I'll tell you why. So one of the things that we do in the country is we show this number, like, The number of drug overdoses is 100,000. And then we implied that they're all opioids for the most part. But then it's all drugs. And then you think about, okay, how are we counting this? And then you have to take a step back.

And this is where it gets, this is where people have to read the book. And so you'll see what's happening. But I'll try my best to explain it. So the people who count drug overdoses typically are medical examiners and coroners. Medical examiners are physicians who have about four years of postdoc training in forensic pathology. Corners are people from your community who've been elected as coroners. They can be the local sheriff, like in California in many of the counties, the corner is the sheriff. They can be the funeral home director.

They can be someone else. They typically have like a high school diploma and they were elected. Now, you have what you think is a drug overdose. Someone is dead. That's a fact. Now, how do you know the drug caused overdose? The way we do it, there are no national standards. So when you have a drug overdose, the recommendation,

is that you do an autopsy. The majority of these, there are no autopsy done. Well, you do an autopsy because, if you don't, you're going to be wrong in about 30% of the cases, right? I'll just give you an example. When George Floyd was killed in 2020, the original, even when they did an autopsy, the original autopsy reports that he died because of an overdose.

Basically, drugs played a role in his death, is what they said. And then the public saw the video, and then the public was like, what? And then the diagnosis kind of changed, or the diagnosis was modified. But it just goes to show an important point. One, autopsy reports even are altered in order to conceal things that we will, don't want to keep from the public, like police violence in this case. That's one, that's one thing. Another thing is that when people die and they have a drug in their bodies, a lot of folks have multiple drugs in their system. Do we know which drug caused it, if any? No, because oftentimes

we don't even take the levels to determine whether or not the drug rise to what we might consider toxicity. And so when you think about all of the people who are doing, writing up the death certificate, these folks who have limited education, there are no national standards, I am suspicious about what's going on. Because if the story is, they're dying from, I don't know, Fentadale. That's a popular story. Then, suppose, Supposedly, people didn't know they had fentanyl. And they thought they had heroin or something. Well, if that's the case, that's an easy fix.

All you have to do is make sure the community has these things we call drug checking centers, where they can submit small samples of their drug and then get a printout of everything that's contained in the drug. If it contains a potential toxin, you don't take it or you take smaller amounts. That's really easy. They do this in Austria, Barcelona, Switzerland, Colombia, all around the globe. But we claim to be so concerned about the opioid problem and not have this basic measure if we think this is related to the problem. So that's another reason that I'm suspicious of what's going on because it's not that complicated. drugs are put it this way in my research we give these drugs to people in the lab every day because of you the taxpayers and not only in our labs but also in other university and you don't

have any of these kind of problems we give opioids we give opioids sometimes in combination with other drugs and you don't have any of these kind of problems that we're having out here and than that in the in the in the in the real world so if that's the real problem it's an easy fix i got a kind of a follow-up question if if there's no national standards and i just looked about i didn't know that that's crazy there's no national standards for like uh causes of death and the reasons to i had no idea probably like different different tolerance levels too for people that well no sure make it more difficult yeah sure but what i'm saying the the broader point i think is is what data can we go by to trust because I think a lot of the times like that

that kind of issue spurs legislation that's harmful right and so if if we don't have a I mean that should be a pressing issue for any legislative to say we need to tighten up standards of causes of death so that we can get accurate data so that we can have accurate reasons as to why people are dying and and so i have i have not that's why i said this is the first i've heard that like has there been any kind of push from i always feel like this too let me go on a little science like has a branding problem like i really think science has a branding problem because they like you guys are the smartest motherfuckers on earth but a lot of the times people don't know how to take that brilliance and put it in a palatable way that people understand it and so a lot

of this issue i see is is like those are the kinds of legislative things that things that I would absolutely vote for, but these are other kind of things that, you know, are marketed to us as to why or what politicians care about. But this would actually help so much stuff. So have you seen any kind of lobbying or legislative pushes to help that specific issue? You know, it's wow, you picked right up on the major point. Yeah. This is the issue. And so I wrote about this in the last book, Drug Geese for Grown up. And so you talk about science having this sort of marketing issue. To some extent, you're right. But, you know, like my first book, High Price, it was love. I got a lot of press, a lot of love.

This book sold a lot more, but there was a lot more haters. But information like this is in that book. And I've been out here saying this. But the thing is, I think that there are a lot of people who don't want to hear what I have to say, particularly as it relates to people enjoying those freedoms. Right. And so you want to discredit me, the messenger, and then you just throw the message all out. And so I think, like, there is a slight marketing problem, but then there is active discrediting. Gotcha.

And, you know, you all can just search the internet and the bullshit that's been written about me, you know, I'm an, I'm an old guy. But and then people have said things like, oh, but, you know, he's privileged. You know, I grew up in the hard hood. I have a son who spent time in prison. But I'm privileged. You know, stupid shit like that. People say things to discredit the message. But the message, it's there. It's all there. Interesting. So my last question to you would be about something you said earlier in this interview, which was that you're tired. You're tired of like because you've been, it must feel like you've been banging your head against a wall making this, you know, your mission. I'm going to be you in 20 years. That's what I'm going to be. I'm going to fuck it. Who gives a fuck these people, right? That's what I can understand how you believe in something so very deeply and you've got studies that you've done. And here's the data and some people just won't look at it. And people are dying. And people are dying. Yeah, people are dying. So it's actually like you could be, you could be helping a lot of people, people would listen to you. Are there things that you've done over the years that you've been making this push that you look back and you're like, that's progress that we've made? I'm happy with the results of this.

Some of the other stuff might feel like I'm just screaming into the void and nobody's listened to me. But what have you been able to do that you can actually point back to and be like, I'm very proud that. that my influence helped move things forward. Oh, there's a lot, you know, to be proud of. But the thing is, it's like when you are in the fight, it's like you're in the battle, and then you're like, oh, we did okay, but you're still in the battle, so you still might be taken out, so you can't really enjoy that.

And so, but there's a lot. I mean, like, we have this national conversation. People ask people to get out of the closet about their drug use. A number of people got out of the closet about their drug use. A lot more people. are more comfortable saying that they've done a psychoactive drug people have had to

I mean I don't know if you guys know Burning Man that big festival so like going to spaces like that which caused me a lot of stress but going to spaces like that speaking of people who live out loud in a place like

Burning Man you know they they do a lot of things that they don't do here in their regular life and so I'm asking people why not live like you want to in your entire life. And so I think there are people who are trying to do that, trying to live like they want to live at Burning Man out here. And that means that you let other people live like they want to live. And so I think that people are hearing that message and I'm proud of that. Of course, I'm proud of the people who my children have become and are becoming

because they see their father out here fighting, and this is part of our legacy in this country and being African-Americans, standing up when something is wrong. And despite the consequences to me, you know, it's like you still have an obligation to do that. And so I'm proud that my kids get to see this. And from a legislative standpoint,

have you seen anything moving in the direction that you'd like it to move? I know that they have changed some, laws to make it more equitable because for a while crack cocaine was punished um that's the one piece of legislation that i was like because that was like Obama yeah Obama doesn't do nothing for black folks that's I mean low bar that's that's the one thing I always point to is like the fair sentence in that it's it's a low like but he did he did help usher that legislation so we should say something about this one the crack thing so crack cocaine violations were punished a hundred

times more harshly than powder cocaine violation. And the real concern, too, was that black people made up more than 80% of those people prosecuted under that law, meaning they were more likely to go to jail for a mandatory minimum sentence of five years. And in 2010, the law changed to such that crack is now punished 18 times more harshly than powder cocaine, even though the sentencing commission and every sort of responsible commission said that they should be punished equally. So in effect, Obama compromised this a way when he said that he was going to equate it. So it's still not right. And black people still represent 80% of the people who are convicted under that law. And so that one disappoints me a lot related to him.

And, but I think about some successes, I think about Oregon, they decriminalize all drugs. I think about what's happening with cannabis around the nation. We have legal cannabis in some states and it's becoming more of a thing. Of course, it would be nice to see other drugs be seeing this way. But there have been victories. And I guess you have to celebrate victories when you're in battle. Otherwise, yeah, you may go crazy. Yeah, all right.

Well, thank you very much for stopping by. Appreciate you coming, brother. Big fan, fan. Yeah, this is fascinating. So thank you and good luck in the future. We hope to talk to you again. Thank you guys for having me. Thanks, man.

Pleasant, brother. Pleasure.