Macrodosing: Arian Foster and PFT Commenter - Hell

Episode Date: April 6, 2021

On today's episode of Macrodosing, you'll hear everything you need to know about the inner workings of hell. Is it the worst place one could possibly end up? What do we know about hell? All of your questions are answered. Even hell expert Uncle Chaps hopped on to give us his insight. You don't want to miss it! 0:00 Welcome to Hell 4:00 Rap skits 5:50 How would Big T/Little C *THEORETICALLY* kill Billy 8:30 Is Billy easily killable? 20:30 What is Hell to you? 25:30 Uncle Chaps, who spent three years in seminary and was ordained in the Baptist church, joins the show 27:00 The story of Job 29:30 When dis today’s idea of Hell come about? 32:30 What exactly is Hell? 37:15 Satan has great branding 46:30 Unconditional election 51:30 Is God more efficient than Steve Jobs? 52:30 Has Hell actually started yet? 55:00 Big T went to a Revelation themed haunted house as a kid and it turns out Chaps used to act in themYou can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/macrodosing

Hey, macrodosing listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Welcome back to Macro Dosing. Pleasure to have you guys aboard again. I'm very excited about this week's episode. I've been thinking about it a lot. It's hot in the streets. It was Easter yesterday.

We had the Lil Nasek stuff last week. It's hell. Welcome to hell. This is the hell episode, and it's fascinating stuff. Like, I've been reading a lot about hell. I've been listening to a lot of stuff about hell. I've immersed myself in hell. And honestly, it's delightful.

It was delightful figuring out, like, where hell comes from. The actual history behind it in various cultures, it's fascinating stuff. So I hope you guys enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed doing some research for it. Arian, how are you doing today? How's life in Texas? It's actually a beautiful day, man. Like, yesterday I sat out in my backyard and I listened to, like, one song for, like, the whole day. And it was amazing.

Which song? It was dissolved by abso facto or something like that, ab facto, ab facto, ab facto. How high were you to listen to the same song all day and be like, this is awesome every time? I wasn't high at all, actually, man. That's kind of my bag, dog. Like, if I'm filling a song, like, that's my, that's my theme music for the day or the week sometimes. Like, I'll jam. Like, when Lil Nas X dropped that shit, I listen to that shit for, like, two days straight.

Like, I love that song. That's crazy to me. Like, I'll listen to a song if I get really into it, but I can't listen to it all day. Like, after the third or fourth time that I hear it, I'm like, okay, I think it's because I make music, right? And because, well, you do too. So you say, like, okay, sometimes artists spend, like, a year or two making a song, though. Like, there's so many different nuances. So, like, just having a couple spins, I can't really digest it.

So, like, I really like to listen to all. Like, my favorite things is, like, listening to the music where you hear something new every time. And that's like, it's like, I love, like, just letting that shit. right one thing one thing i miss about music and like listening to uh the very specific parts of it is back in the day in like the 70s and 80s it was common for people to be like hey if you play this album backwards you actually get a message directly from satan himself like that was that was huge we need to bring that back like two things we need to bring back i feel like in the in the roaring 20s one rap skits i need way more rap skits uh the golden age that was like the what 1995 through

2003. Half the albums were just skits. And then I would also like to hear backwards messages from Satan in popular songs. And they don't even have to be there. They just have to have people talk about the fact that maybe if you play it backwards and listen hard enough, you hear somebody saying like Satan is king. What's your favorite rap skit? Got to go to torture by Wu-Tang Clan. Okay. I love to put your nutsack on the table. Okay. I got you. Yeah. I'm going to go with the This one's not as known, man, but it's amazing. So there's three of them throughout the album.

They'll have the same theme. It's called Ghost Weed by De La Soo, Artificial Intelligence. So Ghost Weed is like, it's, so like they pretend like they're in a cipher and you smoke weed and it makes you rap like one of your favorite rappers. And so like one of the people in The Cypher starts rapping and then it transforms into it was really was. So it was Fife Dog, Ferrell Monch and Black Thought. And so like it was like Ghost Weed makes you rap like that. And they gave you like 30 second verse. She was dope, man.

I like that. I like to imagine that that's what Frank Calyendo is like around his own house. He's just like, depending on how big a hit he takes, like he's talking like Terry Bratshaw, next thing, he's talking like Michael Strayhan or like Samuel Jackson. Coley, what's your favorite, John Madden? John Madden. Coley, what's your favorite rap skit? It's, I don't have like one answer, but it's really any of Camron's. Cameron is the king of the rap.

Like, just flagrant playing real voice. males from women he's just had enough of like that's that's the old like misogynistic shit I miss yeah there was what I think it was ludicrous and the entire thing I think it was before who let these hose in my room and the entire skit was just him being like hey when the hose gonna come through I don't know if those hose are coming through it was just them debating like how long it would take for the hose to finally come through to his house but but yeah for my money Bhutan clan torture where he's like I'm gonna put a coat hanger on the stove and heated up real hot and then

shove it up your asshole. I'm going to what do you say? I'm going to staple your asshole shut and keep feeding you and feeding you and feeding you. Feeding you. Yeah, yeah. And I said, I'll put your nutsick on you just, just your nutsick by itself and bang them shits with a spike bat. Yeah, it was just like, it was the craziest shit that I'd ever heard. I probably poisoned my brain at the age of 12 when I first started. I'm sure

it did. I should not have been listening to that. My parents were right. It's classic. But yeah, so this is the hell episode. And Before we get into hell, because there's a lot to get into, there really is. And I think we're going to be joined by Uncle Chaps later on, because Uncle Chaps, he studied this shit. Like, actually studied it. He was in seminary for a while, I believe. So he's going to have some deep background into the Christian doctrines of hell and how the idea of hell and Christianity has changed over the years

and specifically the stuff that he was taught and that he studied. It's going to be interesting to listen to. Before we get to that, though, we have to do a little bit of cleanup from last week. So on last week's podcast, which was the allegedly podcast filled with our most problematic, innocent people that we believe got a raw deal, Big T got into it with us and Scott Peterson. I feel like we brought up a lot of good counter arguments to Big T's points, namely the porn channel thing. But we talked about how you're terrified, you're terrified to get married because you think that one day you will be accused of murder. think that will happen. But the fact that I believe it did happen to someone who didn't kill his wife is a very scary thought. Okay. All right. That's fair. So I challenged you to come up with an

idea for how you would be able to get away with killing Billy football. And I personally believe that it's impossible for one of us, any of us on this show, to actually get away with murder, given how tied in we are using our phones, using the internet, how we're on camera a lot. I don't, I think it's almost impossible for anybody in America to really get away with murder. But especially for us, I think it's just about impossible to do. So Big T, I asked you to come at us with an assignment. It was going to be how you would get away with murdering Billy football. Were you able to complete the assignment?

So first of all, let me say that I agree with you that I don't think it's, it's really possible to get away with murder now. But I didn't want to do this assignment because if I say this on a podcast and somebody goes and kills Billy football. I mean, that's... Heaven forbid. Correct. So I consulted a former criminal defense attorney and prosecutor. That would make the podcast blow up, though, by the way. I would appreciate your sacrifice. It would do numbers. I would, I would appreciate if y'all would bail me out with the ad money that would bring in. But so I consulted a former criminal defense attorney and prosecutor, this guy worked both sides of it. And I said, if I say this on a podcast very clearly not intending to do it, can I get in trouble for it? He said, no, as long as there are no steps to effectuate that.

plan. Wait, you know what? You know what? This is, this is a little. And nobody asked you, man. Go ahead, Big T. Yeah, well, no, no, no. Well, now I want to hear what he was going to say. I mean, you can't. He doesn't want to hear how he gets murdered, but nobody cares about that. We want to hear how he gets murdered. So now, but now it's like real. It's like, no. So I said all that to say, I want a disclaimer that this is clear parity. I have no intentions of ever harming Billy football in any way whatsoever. But allegedly. If, if, a mythical person were to have to come up with a way to kill billy football i believe this is what that person might do okay kill bill's volume one hit the music for kill bill so billy's got all

sorts of what i would what this mythical person in this an unrealistic scenario might do of course he said you're easily killable billy that hurts no that just this is really what's making billy so mad right can i can i finish not the fact that big t's going to go on about this but the fact that Billy doesn't think that that Big T could kill him. Yeah, I'm sorry. So Billy's got all sorts of supplements going on, right? I mean, this guy, this guy takes so many supplements. He couldn't count them all. So if I was to get into the mind of someone who was going to try to kill Billy, I would simply take something akin to fentanyl or some drug of that ilk and slip it into one of his supplements. This, again, is what I think someone might do if they were to do this. And

that would probably be that person's best chance. Okay. That's, it's actually, yeah, I agree with you. I think that that's probably a good way to go about it if you were to want to do that. But the only thing is like, where would you acquire said fentanyl from? Because no offense, Big T, but if I'm, if I'm a if I am a drooling distributor. Yeah, there you go. Right off the back. No, listen, I was go. No. See, I was going to look up things to further that course of action for this mythical person, but I didn't want to Google those things in real life. So I don't really know how this person would go about that. But I figure someone with the intent to do that, which I do not have, would figure out a way to do that.

Okay. The problem is if you came up to me and I was a drug salesperson, right, I was an entrepreneur, and you said, I'd like to buy one of your best fentanyl, please. Yeah. I would take one look at you and be like, you can go in the opposite direction.

Well, again, see, you're using, you're using the word you. And in this scenario, this is just someone with... You said I. I retracted that. This is just someone with the intent to kill Billy. Okay.

So someone who is that determined to do that would figure out a way to... Okay. to make the means. If the most masculine-looking cabbage patch doll in the world came up to me with high socks and said, can you direct me to the nearest fentany? This is bullshit. Big T, I love you.

I've crafted a little bit of a plan already to kill you in my head. All right. Let's go. Let's go. What is it? Let's go. Let's hear it, bro. Well, you've actually demonstrated enough for me to in court advocate for self-defense.

And I just kill you right now. Let's go. No, see, that's not true. I talked to an attorney, now. No, no, no, I had this. No, I had this cleared. I feel threatened right now. Do you?

I could, yeah, I feel threatened. You feel threatened. You just outlined a plan to kill me. That's such like that. I've heard that so many times from like white dudes. I feel threatened right. That's the funny shit in the world. Sanders are usually up.

Like, bro, I was, I was in line of McDonald's, right? I was like in a turning lane. And like, it was like backed up. But I couldn't turn and I was just stuck. And so people behind me couldn't go. And so the dude starts honking. I'm like, where you were? want me to do, right? And I wrote out my wonder, I was like, hey, he's like, this

Texas. Don't remember, don't forget that. I'm like, what the fuck does that mean? He's like, I have a gun. And I was like, what makes you think I don't got a gun? And he said, I feel threatened right now. I was like, bitch, you just, you just told me you made a gun. It was more like, that's so. By the way, Billy, New York's not a stanger ground state. So I understand what Billy's saying, though. So actually, you know what? Big T, the fact that you, like, talked to an attorney and asked him how to best it to make it very clear i had no intention of doing this whatsoever and it was someone in this room who told me that i had to and i'm not going to say who that was i mean it was me unless you really well okay yeah it was you i mean you forced me giant paper trail

against my will telling you to kill billy football yes so i feel like that exonerates me in any sort of legal actually this is this is like real story so i used to do pre-workout reviews because i believe I wanted free supplements. No, and I used to send me your pre-work. So, like, look, I, like, just got back with Barsal and I, like, you know, wanted free stuff sent to me. Yeah. Hand up. That's on me.

Anyway, some guy sent me his, like, special homemade pre-workout. And it was just a bag of white powder that got sent to me. And I was like, oh, shit. I mean, because before it was just, like, small, small supplement companies sending me, like, big things as pre-workout. Um, some, some dude sent me a handwritten letter with a baggie of white powder. I have, I tweeted and I was like, oh, shit, bro, I'm not taking this shit. So actually I've been conscientious about opening my own pre-workout. You got to sneak into my house and find my pre-workout.

But Billy, you just gave the, the company a shout out that sent you the hand-go thing that you just said you didn't open. The handwritten, no, no, no, they come like one of the companies that sent me a sample, which was amazing, was the company I just said. Gotcha. A different entity sent me. I had no idea what was in the bag. I just literally threw it out and just like, I'm not dealing with it. Yeah. Could have been anthrax.

100%. Yeah. So, okay, I think that Conner's on the right track with how he would go about doing it. The trick would be procuring the fentanyl. Sure. Again, you're getting, y'all are getting real, real reckless with, with nouns here. Okay. This is a mythical person.

We'll call him Big C. Okay. So it has nothing to do with Big T. Little C? Yeah, Little C. Little C. So Little C would go about like buying the fentanyl presumably just from a drug dealer. I don't know. Or maybe maybe you get it from China. I know you have moral qualms against China, but that's where all the fentanyl comes from. Do you realize that by getting the fentanyl, you're actually funding the Chinese Communist Party? Again, this is Little C. And I don't know this guy. I don't know what he's doing. Okay. So if you were to get it, though, here's where the modern day problems come in. There are cameras all over. the city. Sure. So they and also in this office. So they would be able to see you either going down the street like Nicole Kidman in that show with Hugh Grant that came out that pissed me off a couple months ago or they just tractor walking down the street and they're like, oh, you were at the scene

of the crime here. Or there would be cameras in this office that would show you going into Billy's workout supplements. Sure. Again, I said off the top. I don't think this person could get away. I actually have a way to kill Big T easily, no questions asked. And we're probably going to have to bleep this out. I literally just keep giving you COVID time after time till it actually kills you. So you're not getting the vaccine. I think Billy said that he would. Where the fuck did you get that idea?

Dude, you get COVID three times. No, no, no, no. You just said, I'm not getting the vaccine. Where did you get that idea from? You think, are you getting the vaccine? I haven't yet. It hasn't been. I, you're, I'm going to.

keep giving it to you time after time and just kill you over time. I said you get the vaccine. Yeah, bro. I like how well, first of all, Billy's plan is to keep getting COVID himself and then using that to infect big team. Are you going to have like a fucking

I procure it full of COVID, bro? Yeah, it's pretty easy to get. It's pretty easy to get. No argument there. Yeah, no, that's a fact. It's probably easier to get COVID than it is fitting. Yeah.

That's probably, yeah. That's probably, yeah. That's definitely true for sure. This episode is brought to you guys by our great friends at Mack Weldon, everybody. This spring is going to hit a little bit different because we're all finally starting to get back outside and see friends again. I know everybody is excited about that. I certainly am. No matter where your adventures take you, whether it be on vacation, wherever you're going, bring the comfort and style of Mac Weldon along for the ride.

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let's start with coli like you mean real quick we like personally like our philosophical stance on it yeah like let's pretend that we're going into this episode and we didn't do any background reading on it whatsoever just like your general idea of hell got you yeah i was thinking about this kind of all day today because i feel like the self gets all of the oh it's super religious down there when it comes to this country boston is like only catholicism like that's all we do up here that's what like most of the laws in the city were built around that irish catholic roman catholic uh self flatulation like just hell was always this threat that loomed growing up but was never really like described like it was not like the the the fight

and shit, but then you grow up, like, I'm sure PFT is the only person who's going to get this. I think of hell as like Homer getting donut after donut after donut after donut after donut to shove down his throat from Treehouse of horror. Yeah. I'm actually kind of with you on that one because most of my conception of hell came from cartoons. And I bet a lot of people feel the same way. Like, if you didn't grow up going to church every single Sunday, that's probably where it came from.

And the ironic part about Homer and hell is. So he was put into whatever circle that was, he was a glutton, so they kept feeding him donuts. And it was, it actually was Homer's idea of heaven. And then he just, he ate so many donuts that he put the devil that was feeding him the donuts into hell because he couldn't punish Homer enough from the donuts. So, yeah, cartoons. Cartoons played a major factor for me when it came to like figuring out what hell was or what the devil was. What about you, Aaron? I grew up Muslim right and so there's not like a they believe um to my knowledge anyway like

there is like a punished kind of thing but I just never got too big into it and I dabbled in Christianity and dabbled in Catholicism and realized none of that shit was for me and so for me it just kind of doing my own due diligence over the years about religion in general. I think hell is just just like heaven. It's just like religion in general. It's just a man-main construct that was designed to stoke fear

for it just like weaponize fear and use it to control people and their behavioral patterns and steal their money. Yeah, what about you, Big T? So like Coley, like Cole said when he was talking about hell being a thing that's held over people I went to so as a kid when I was really little we went to like what I would consider like a very normal mainstream church and then but for a few years when we moved we moved cities in Georgia and we went to I don't remember if I've mentioned on this show or not but it's an independent fundamental Baptist church yeah and these people were I consider myself a Christian these people were out of their minds and this the the preacher there would often ever every few months or so i'd be like you know nobody nobody's willing to preach a sermon on hell anymore i'm going to preach a sermon on hell and and it was just like literally to scare people but but coming into this if you would have said what do you think hell is i would say hell is

eternal separation from god that's what i would say hell is okay what's yeah but yeah yeah yeah what about you bill um growing up i thought a lot i was raised catholic i thought a lot about hell and trying to not go to hell because bad place um but you know from what i looked into i realized that hell is one of the biggest selling points of christianity and why it's spread so so far and across europe and the christianization of europe is fully based on the concept of hell we'll get to more of that later okay cool me personally i just when i was growing up i never really thought of hell as being an actual place. I always thought of it as just being like an idea. Like I knew of, you know, what hell looks like. I could tell you what it looked like and what

the devil looked like. And he had horns and he was red and had a goatee. Like he looked like he did look like a relief pitcher. He had that like whole look to it was probably jacked up. There was a lot of fire. It was a hot place. You were always in pain. I never for a second thought that it was a real place but like i had a pretty vivid idea of what hell looked like mostly from like honestly cartoons and heavy metal songs that's about it um so that's that's kind of the background that that i'm coming from personally we also we just got joined by uncle chaps chaps is is on the line right now chaps you studied you were you actually in seminary yeah so i went to seminary for three years um before i joined the marine corps and was i was ordained the baptist church and was the

associate pastor of the church before I went to the Marine Corps. Okay. So growing up, I would imagine that you had a pretty good understanding of what hell was like. Yeah. And I don't think that hell and the devil are probably two of the most misconstrued areas of Christianity by most Christians. One, like because of hell is so prevalent like Billy was talking about, whenever you're dealing with the devil, people will give the devil, even the Christian devil,

like the Christian version of the devil, they will give, him the ability that God has like they will give the devil ability to be omniscient omnipresent that he's everywhere the devil is doing this to me the devil is causing that when in reality that's not what the Bible describes the devil as they just it describes devil the devil as one single angel who is able to be at one place at one time and that's it yeah so uh that's interesting me because that like lucifer as the angel if we're let's just get into like the christian background of what hell is. And we can talk about some other stuff. And we also have some listener emails. But the Christian description of the devil, it's like Lucifer, he was involved in the story of Job,

right? Lucifer, it kind of brings me back to like that, um, is it trading places with Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd, that movie? It's like the Mortimer brothers, when they make that bet for a dollar to see how badly they can fuck with Dan Aykroyd and Eddie Murphy. That is a great analogy, though. Wow. Right. That's like what the story of Job was. It was like the devil and God got together. And Lucifer was like, hey, I bet you I can make Job hate you.

He only likes you because everything good is going to him, right? And for those that are listening, don't know who Job is. Job was the richest man in the world. He was essentially Bill Gates at the time. He had everything. He had all the farm. He had all the people that was going around. He had everything.

and then he was and then god was essentially tricked by the devil like it just flat out tricked them like oh this guy's not going to do it well why don't you why don't you give him some boils why don't you kill all of his animals and then eventually joe wish he was dead so why did why does that happen how can god get tricked by like just his like little bitch boy well one i think it's because you're dealing with allegories and a lot of the stories where it you are really just kind of making people understand where they're coming from. And I, the book of Job is really, really confusing. Because if you look at it that way, how is God not going to know Satan's intentions? And if he doesn't know his intentions, is he really omnipresent and omniscient? Like my answer would be no. Like if he thought

for a second that Job was going to do this, God knows everything. He knows that time is a spectrum where you have point A and point B and they interlace together and they're all in the same timeline to God. A A day is to a thousand years, a thousand years is to a day. So he knew that this was going to completely anguish Job, make Job miserable, make Job want to kill himself, essentially. And he still was like, no, yeah, let's do that. All right. So, and then if you fast forward, like, Lucifer led a rebellion against God. And then God put him down to the lake of fire and ice.

And is that like the first description of what hell is? Like, what does the Bible actually say about hell? because I feel like a lot of people have a notion that the Bible discusses hell at length and that they get very descriptive of what happens to you if you die and you're found to be in, you know, in a mortal sin or whatever. So what does the Bible actually say about hell? Well, in the 1600s, the view of hell changed drastically. It wasn't really talked about much in the early church.

It wasn't focused on. It was more focused on doing good things than that Jesus was the Lord and Savior. year. 1600s, a lot of things happened. After the Protestant Reformation, whenever people like Jonathan Edwards in the early 1700s, we're talking about sinners in the hands

of an angry God. He was really the first great theologian that was in America. So he decided that he was going to describe hell in a way where he pieced it together from what he was viewing in Revelation where it talked about hellfire and brimstone. Well, Jonathan Edwards at the time

didn't look back historically. Like he took a lot of of this stuff is like, oh, this is now. The smell of sulfur, for example, they had to use that to get things hot enough to melt bones. And that's why that imagery is there, because it was so smelly, so stinky that it made people inside the city of Jerusalem want to leave because the burnt offerings were so terrible. So you would be around that smell all the time. So that's why it's referred to in that way. Some places, it's called the Lake of Fire, where a lake, I don't know if you've been in one lately but you can constantly swim to the other side like there's there it's not like an ocean where you

can't get to the other side so i think that the the bible in different parts is written thousands of years apart so it's talked about in different ways one way early is that hell is here on earth like there is there's parts of leviticus and there's parts of genesis that would describe earth like they use the word like the word means earth essentially here as hell because you're separated from God and you're not in heaven. And then they use the same type of terminology and revelation when he talks about heaven. And that heaven is here on earth because you do experience God. So there is, in the translations, is very, very important because if you don't have the

translation right, it ruins everything. In 1947, I believe it was the first time that the word homosexuality appeared in the Bible. And that's because it was a brand new translation. So when the Bible was first, I know the Old Testament doesn't really mention, hell at all. There's like really no concept, right? Bill. Yeah, Matthew and John do a little bit, but they talk about for exceedingly wicked, being exceedingly wicked. So in the original Greek of the Old Testament, they use the word Gehenna, the valley of Hinnom, which is a small

valley in Jerusalem, which they consider this purgatory type place where the barren, yeah, the kings of Judea, the first kings sacrificed their children there. that's so they just use that as a term for something that they knew that was close by that sucked yeah that's like if you would be like us saying you're going to louisiana in the middle of summertime wow i was going to say south dakota but yeah i mean chaps i'm going to let you stay on the show but i'm going to need you to be more respectful about louisiana in the future okay i didn't know we're big louisiana guys i love louisiana um but but yeah billy's right there's like there's like there as far as i could tell there are like four different words in the king james

when they say the word hell they actually mean one of four things one is that specific valley and they call that hell one is just the grave just if you're dead and you're buried underground that they use the word hell in the king james bible as a translation for a different word that means the grave um the absence of god is also sometimes translated to hell and then that's the one that billy graham ascribe to yeah yeah and then there's a place where certain fallen angels were sent that were called that was called hell but like the universal concept of fire and brimstone and all that stuff that didn't that's not part of the bible at all as far as i understand and uh chaps you were saying you were texting me earlier today about billy graham

and this surprised me about what happened with billy graham the famous uh televangelist yeah so billy graham whenever he was getting older and age he became i i remember baptist circles talking about billy graham was a heretic and things like this because he would he basically adopted a universalist principle where he said if all these things that I've been preaching about Jesus being the only way truth in the life and nobody comes to the father except through him and he is this and like love and purity and the form of love how can he possibly send people to hell that's why he adopted the hell version of being separated from God and he viewed your hell is on earth not knowing God and not knowing God's peace while you're on earth and then when you die you just

die that was the end of that was how billy graham thought of hell towards the end of his life so early in his life he didn't think that so so going back even before christianity had all the imagery that we see about hell is uh taken from paganism right i know billy did some research on that billy you want to go off i so i uh i sort of got fixated on this idea of um early christian like spreading into Europe. And actually, like, if you look at the word hell, it is from the Old Norse, which the old Norse, which is the name for the Old Norse goddess that oversee their mythological underworld. So if you look at paganism across Europe, you have, of course, Greek, Roman mythology, and Norse mythology, which all sort of have these pantheon of gods, which each

represent a different part of the world as we see it in the underworld um was you know hades hell and the old norse was hell this goddess who actually homer may have taken as a name for hell in of troy which caused a trojan war so um with that she was a babe right yeah she caused a huge war she was so hot that she made millions of people die horny jail yeah yeah agamemnon They should have just bonked all the Greeks. But yeah, with this, basically a lot of the, you know, symbolism. And for example, today, the pentagram, classic pop culture symbol of Satanism, you know, paganry, like human sacrifice, the star with five points. This was actually a pagan symbol that was positive.

If you look at it throughout history, it was positive. you actually see it today still being used positively by agricultural communities. So I don't know if any of you know the Barn Star or the Pennsylvania Star, which is... Not familiar. Well, you know, basically a lot of barns have this five-pointed star, which is very recognizable, which is used a lot by, you know, Pennsylvania and Dutch farming communities, a lot of Germanic farming communities. They put this barn star. It's kind of very...

It's a symbol that's used across a lot of the United States. This was actually a derivative of the pentagram. That's metal as hell. Well, it's very, because it was for good harvest, like very positive stuff. I mean, you know, today's the day after Easter. Easter, you know, the bunny, the rabbit, you know, the small animals and ducklings. The sort of idea of new life is a very... And that's the God Ishtar, which is the god of fertility.

Right. I mean, everyone's going off on Twitter about yesterday. But that's sort of the idea of rebirth and new life in spring, which is very, you know, know, you can align it a lot with, you know, the rebirth of Christ. So what's, what's interesting to me is the fact that, uh, a lot of the stuff that we think about the devil and that we think about hell, like the goathead, you're right. So the, like, for whatever reason, they always make the devil jacked his shit. Like the devil say what you want about his like evil intentions, but the motherfucker's in ketosis.

Like that dude, he's got like an eight pack. He's in good shape. I don't know why they, it doesn't make any sense why people would want to. convince us that hell is a bad place and then make the leader of hell look so badass in all this imagery well i think it's the control of the catholic church i think that's a a lot of it the control of the church in general to me the hell concept is essentially a way to control like where you have where it's basically the grown-up version of santa where you i do it with my kids and i'm like oh santa's going to see you you better not you're not going to get that toy if santa doesn't do that

and you had the only educated people that were in the town, which was usually the priest, the priest was the only one that had that real authority. So he's telling all these people, you have to listen to what I say. I'm the only one that can read. And this says you're going to go to hell if you don't do these things. Ari, so for you, when you were growing up, like, you just said that hell wasn't really a concept that was discussed a lot in Islam. What was the mechanism to like keep people in line, like the way?

way that we know that, like Billy was saying, the Catholic Church when it was spreading, was like, hey, you don't convert, then you're going to end up being tortured forever. Yeah, no, I left really early, like as a kid because I saw so much inconsistencies with what they were telling me to do and what they were doing. And so I didn't get deep enough into the religion to know the Quran back and forth like I should have. But from my recollection, A lot of it's just like folklore, like from our society. Like it's just societal standards. And to me, that's literally what it is.

I don't think there is a like moral objectivity. I think it's all just kind of what we deem as acceptable as a society. And then all of our religions and all of our customs, they build from there. They go from there and they develop from there. But I just to answer your question, I don't I don't I don't 100% remember I wasn't in the in the mosque like that I can just imagine like a young arian foster like a 10 year old arian foster asking some questions that are just too hard for people to to understand just be like maybe just don't bring your son back here

anymore doesn't it doesn't feel like that was the thing I said he's not feeling it no no go ahead go ahead no I was saying like it's it's funny to imagine the uh the imam or whoever was leading your church just being like, listen, I'd rather just not have area in here anymore because the questions are too hard. The dope shit about my parents was that my father was Muslim and my mother grew up Catholic but converted to Islam. And they never pushed it on us. They kind of showed us like what they did.

We used to pray like five times a day to the east, right? And we used to mimic the prayers or say the prayers. But like they never were like, yo, you guys are Muslims. Right? They used to tell us like, this is what we chose. You have to find your own way, which I really appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, super rare. And as an adult, like, that's one of the best things because as a kid, you're so gullible. Everything, like, these are your superheroes. These are, they know what they're talking about. They know what they're doing. And if they're telling you, like, you go, this is what it is, then to you, that's what it is. And any outside influence is like, no, this is wrong. And so any kind of dissent or any kind of. opposing view, you looked at, you look at as negative. And that's what I realized growing up as a kid was like everybody around me was like indoctrinated. And I was like, I just felt like I wasn't let astray in that way where it's like there was like there was like just drilled into my mind as correct or

incorrect. My parents were like, you'll find your way. This is a foundation of what we believe in. And also you should look and see what the world believes in because it's a big world and a lot of wars have fought about this stuff, a lot of ideological wars. And so they laid the foundation but they let us kind of do our own thing. I remember the first time I met one of my best friends today who was in college and we were kind of just discussing that. And at this point, I was probably, I would say I was agnostic, just pure agnostic.

I believe there was a God, but I just believed religion was bullshit. Okay. And we were all talking. It was like a whole bunch of college cats. And like everybody's from different walks of life. Some people was from Tennessee, Florida, Georgia. I came all the way from California.

And we were just talking about religion. And I was like, oh, yeah, I don't believe in Jesus. And he was, I was like, the first person he ever saw that didn't believe in Jesus. He was like, you don't believe in Jesus? And I was like, nah. And he's like, no, you're going to hell, right? And I was like, well, word.

That's the first thing you ever say to somebody. That's wild, though. No, but the interesting part about when, you know, they were spreading Christianity in Europe was they would do it top down. So they would convince like German chieftains and these, you know, back when Europe was just a bunch of tribes, they would go to the head honcho and be like, your pagan gods your idea of an afterlife is you have an idea of redemption so for then you know there was this appeal to fear when showing hell is like hell is internal damnation if you don't go to

christianity you will be damned forever but if your gods are the real gods you'll be able to make up for it in the afterlife and go to these purgatory type places so this idea of like oh we still use that big time i used to use that one all the well what if you're wrong and i'm right yeah i used to use that one so if i'm wrong and you're right nothing happens if you if i'm right and you're wrong buddy yeah either so it's it's actually called pascal's wager or yeah argumentum and terror either p or q is true q is frightening therefore p is true yeah that was sort of sounds good to me that was the concept of hell that's how they sold it to these chiefs they're like yeah like you know if your Odin or your Zeus is real,

then you can make it up in the afterlife and serve your time in purgatory. But, you know, if hell is real, then you're screwed. You're offering a risk-free wager to not live in hell for all eternity, but it's house credit only. So if you win, you can only change it in to, like, live in heaven. And the devil looks like a lot of, and they would use the pagan imagery that we now know to be very demonic.

So the goat is like pan from Greek mythology, like the centaur, but the faun that's like half human, half goat. Which is cool as fuck. That's what I don't get. The imagery surrounding heaven is nowhere near as cool. It's just like golden gates and clouds and like it's just, it's not as cool, man. They're like heaven and God and Jesus. They need a, they have a branding issue in our society. They don't, they don't brand themselves.

And he's a new social media manager. Yes. they do so i mean it's like buddy christ in the movie dogma they they needed to like switch something up make it more youth friendly but i mean you're right i'd like to get coli's opinion on this actually coley objectively speaking is the imagery surrounding hell is hell cool i think coli's gone coley dropped out okay coli dropped out my bad collie would be like i have that pot and a chair because i i think it's really interesting because the way that he grew up i wish more people grew up where they were taught to be seekers.

Because for me, that was the, that was like the linchpin of where I was at was in Iraq. I was looking around. And none of these people spoke English. Everybody's Muslim. And you don't have a choice there. And I thought every single person who's ever lived here is going to go to hell because they were born here. And they didn't hear like, that is incredibly fucked up. And so once I realized that and I was like standing there in the environment, I was like, no, man, there's no way.

That to me, that's great that you came to their realization because a lot of people don't. Like a lot of people would just be like, yeah, man, it is what it is. But if the reason why I became an atheist, right, and our atheist gets a, I think it's misrepresented a lot, but we can get into it a few more. But the reason why it was because there's so many philosophical conundrums like that that just don't make no sense, right? Like, how can I be more moral than the Supreme Being claims to be in his book? If he's the, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, is the, is, is the objective standard. Like, how am I more moral? How, how am I more forgiving?

Like, how can I get over forgiveness, but he can't? Like, how can I, how can I get over jealousy, but he can't? Like, how, how is, how are these things even possible? And so, like, little, little stuff like that over the years just, it dawned on me like, yo, a whole bunch of dudes wrote this shit. A whole bunch of white dudes wrote this shit that want to control people. Like, that's all it is. Because, like, literally, like, when I started studying black history as a kid, right?

Or, like, teenagers. Like, one of the cudgels that they used against black folks was the Bible. Like, if you look at Exodus, they literally condone slavery. And they used that to say that, like, the slave, slavers obey your masters, right? And so little things like that all throughout my life is just like, after a while, I was like, those wrote this shit. And women, too. They did it to women, too.

Yeah, yeah. And Second Timothy. Have you guys ever heard the concept of unconditional election? No. So unconditional election was another thing. I used to really believe in these five pillars of like the reformation where it was total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace and perseverance of the saints. So unconditional election means no matter what, if you're going to heaven, it's been written since the foundations of the earth were laid. You have no choice. There is predestination and essentially all you have is a feathers fly

to the ground. I can drop a feather from the ground. I can drop a feather from the ground. it's going to have its own little fluctuating path, but eventually the destination is already decided. That's essentially how the Bible explains you're separating the sheep from the goats. A goat never automatically turns into a sheep. A sheep never turns into a goat. You're either a sheep or you're a goat, and that's it.

Okay. To me, it's tough to convince people to follow your religion if you already have separated. You're like, well, you're going to. Like, why are you going to, it's like trying to get people to enroll in your college if you tell them, well, I'm going to, you're going to fail out after six months no matter what you do. You, yeah, you're going to graduate, but we still want the other guy's money too while he's here. I think we also, we got to separate, you know, different parts of Christianity. There's the Catholic idea that there's, I'm blanking on it.

Pergatory? Yeah, purgatory, but also confession and you can retribution versus that idea of predestination. where so well it's complicated but they're two that sort of diverges when it comes to the idea of yeah the protestant doctrine versus and the protestant doctrine has so many different tentacles as well where they don't believe everything that each other believes and the catholic version is very different too you're right so jump into what billy said about the the imagery that was taken like from the paganism so it sounds like what they were doing in order to convince people join our church they were using things that they already knew

that they were familiar with like to give them a background of what they believe so they just like adopted other people's symbols and then put them into their own religion to make it easier for them to understand well here's what will happen if you don't join our church you know the guy that you've been hearing about since you were a kid the guy with the big

cloven feet and the horns on his head that guy's going to own you if you don't join our religion and so they kind of adopted that just to kind of like make the tent a little bit bigger right And I think that makes sense if you look at it from a like a historical time period that the Bible is written to a specific person by a specific person in different parts. And then later it became a canon where everything was pieced together. That's not how it was back in the day. But I think like what you did with the great coming to America are trading spaces.

You did the trading spacious analogy. I think a lot of times even back then they would use the analogy to draw people in. And what Billy said about the Greek influence was absolutely right. and the book of John is all about, it uses nothing but imagery from Socrates and Plato. Like when that's so inspired by the way that they go, even the beginning, whenever in John chapter one where it says in the beginning was the word and the word became God and it came in tabernacled among us. Whenever he says that, he's using the platonic view of the form and saying the perfect form of man came to earth. And so he's using Plato's imagery to describe Jesus.

So when Lil Nas X is grinding up on the devil and giving him a lap dance, really the people who should be super offended would be like if there was an ancient Greek that just like walked into the room, that person, that person should be writing letters. What was that Chapsin? I didn't hear you said it went out. Oh, no, just saying like in ancient Greek, that person would have like a legit qualm against Lil Nas X of like, how dare you disrespect Pan the goat god to me like this? Honestly, they probably wouldn't have a problem.

Good point. Yeah. You're right. Ancient Creek. They would probably, they would probably love it. Yeah. Yeah. So. Okay. Well. That's another thing that bothers me about that, right? It's like, why does God have no sense of humor, dog? Like, you can't mock him. Like, what? Like, I'm my kid. It's one of the big rules. Yeah. I always, I always think it's analog to me it's analogous to me having kids because like we're his children, allegedly, right? We're his children. And I want my children to ask all my questions. Like my, my, my daughter. she puts on my shoes and she walks around and she pretends she's me like that's mocking me that's funny why the fuck is this why is this cat like so uptight dog I just don't understand it

and if like this is this is the to me this was the the death blow to God in my eyes that's hard to say but this was it it was like the all knowing

cat the all knowing all seeing perfect is not more efficient than Steve Jobs. And this is why I get a update from Apple like every single month on my phone. I have to say yes or say no, it's updated because shit changes things on. This dude wrote a book 2,000 years ago

and there has not been an update since. And you're telling me Steve Jobs is more efficient than the dude. He's worth in the game of throne. Gravity and lighten. Like, come on, man. It's just silly. I want to give Big T a chance to speak on this because I know that your definition of hell kind of differs what maybe it's because you spend more time like actually going to church than us

but we have we have more of like a popular culture sense of what hell is and you were saying that hell to you is like just no God like away from God well I think there's there's a definition of hell that is like the separation from God and I think that's a good way to put it I would have if you would have asked me before we did that I learned a lot looking into this like yeah you think of the hellfire and things like that that are mentioned briefly in the bible but um i mean yeah i just think hell is actually what i found the most interesting um doing this research is and chaps probably knows all about this and can speak to this um i'd never heard this before and this probably goes to like this doesn't seem like something in southern churches

it would be beneficial for them to bring up but there are passages in the bible like so in the book of Job we mentioned Job earlier in chapter 21 it says for the wicked or reserved for their day of doom they shall be brought out from the they shall be brought out on the day of wrath who condemns his way to his face and who repays him for what he has done yet he shall be brought to the grave and a vigil kept over the tomb and some people seem to think that that first passage there reserved for the day of doom and there's another in the book of John, that mean that hell hasn't actually, there is nobody in hell right now that the people who have died and will not go to heaven are just kind of dead right now, but once Christ comes

back, that then he will condemn them all to hell. And like, hell hasn't started yet, kind of. Yeah. And I'd never heard that before, Chaps. I don't know what you know about that, but that was very, that was probably the most interesting thing that I looked into when I was doing. I just don't know if you have anything to add to that or what? Yeah, I think that that's super interesting. And also in hell, there's different versions because Revelation is probably the book that speaks to it the most.

And there's this principle that's called partial preterism or just full out preterism. And that means that everything, all the different predictions and prophecies that are happening in Revelation have already happened. So they're looking at it as from that point of view, not in Joe, but in Revelation, they're looking at it hell is what happened to Jerusalem in 70 AD because there was

thousands of people that were crucified outside of the city they viewed because they say before this generation shall pass away that's what Jesus said before this generation shall pass away that happened in around 40 BC or 40 AD or 40 whatever the fuck you want to call it and so they looked at it that hell was already here on earth and that happened in 70 D-A-D under Nero. I just want to tell a quick story about Revelace. This is a bit of a tangent. But so when I was a kid and my parents were on this kick of going to the

Independent Fundamental Baptist Church, they got super. That made me feel sad for you, too. Super. Those churches are so terrible. I mean, some of the things like were really out there. Like the Bob Jones, you can't show your anything above your wrist. Oh, so I went to Bob Jones University was actually. like where a lot of those kids like they would encourage kids to go there but i the the church camp for that

church was in south georgia in july and you weren't allowed to wear shorts you had to wear pants it was that uh you know what i returned like my personal i retract my former definition of hell hell is that church camp it was horrible um but that's not what i was going to say so when my parents were on this kick of being super religious they've since uh laxed and i think are a much more uh tolerable level of christian now but um tolerable level A more normal level So there was this thing I don't know what it was called

But it was like a like an experience theme type deal For the Tribulation And you like what It was like a haunted house But of the tribulation And fuck I used to play in those I used to act in those Uh got Hellhouse

I think they're just called Hellhouse Something like that yeah That sounds awesome I would go to see that So I was nine or 10 years old And they were scaring the shit out of children And they didn't know if I should go or not And I was like, yeah, let me go.

Like, I'm good to go. And I started walking through that thing. And it's, I was like in tears. Like, my dad had to take me and leave. Like, it was the scariest thing I've ever seen in my entire life. They didn't hold back either. I mean, they were like, Wait, what was going on in there?

So, do you know what the tribulation is? So the tribulation is after Jesus comes back, the people who are left on earth, a lot of bad shit's going to happen. Right. So it's basically walking you through what earth would be like when those things are happening. And I mean, it's like literally like a biblical haunting. house where they've got like like people screaming leaping and gnashing of teeth all kinds of shit and the thing and like coming out at you and being like it's the scariest thing I've ever seen in my life

it's terrifying and you leave I did that and you leave and at the end the pastor comes out and be like if you want to avoid this you need to come down and people flood because they're terrified you're like seven or eight years old some of them that are calling through these things you're seven and you're like I said a cuss word yesterday I'm sorry I don't let my kid watch Harry Potter before bet it was billed as like i want to say it was around halloween it was like fall time and it was like the christian alternative to like halloween i want to do that that sounds scary as fuck it was haunted houses they don't do it for me this was scarier than any haunted house you could ever go to they do the haunted houses i don't know in texas in texas in texas they do like these uh cornfields

yeah they're dope as shit no i'm just saying like they don't do it for me anymore like i can't get scared to that it's like it's like a guy who's been desensitized from watching porn for 40 years he's like i need quadruple penetration to really get my heart rate going like i i need to go see one of these hell it is have you have you guys ever heard of there's this place in connecticut it's called holy land it was designed to be like a disneyland and yes it's in orlando no there's one no there's one i've been to the one that billy's talking about and it's insane i've been that that one got closed down all i remember is because when you're driving on 95 sometimes you see that it looks like a hollywood sign but it says

Holy Land. I've been to the Holy Land experience in Orlando. They also have one that's Noah's Ark too. There's a real life. Somebody, I think it's in Oklahoma or some shit. They built the, Kentucky.

The Ark to the specs. Oh, it's in Kentucky. Yeah. I think it's a Kentucky. I know where that was. So this, this Hell House,

I'm actually fascinated by the Hell House. I think it was so. Because the mindset that you would have to get into to like design the things that would happen in the Hell House. Like you're kind of putting, you're having some impure thoughts the one i remember that like scared that i was like we got to go was they had like not zombies but like people who were real down on their luck and had really uh wish they were dead like coming out at you and like latching on to you and i look i was like in tears

i got to leave like this yeah i got a question for chaps man i got a question for chap right so if you were to describe the intent or the will of lucifer or satan or whatever the fuck everybody to call them. What would it be? Oh, the will of Satan. I would say to make sure that everyone is separated from God. Like you, I would almost view it. If I, if I try to hop back into my own brain, I would say this is the, this is the fate that I have. I want people, I want to bring people down with me as much as I can. If I'm going down, they're coming down with me. But is it to harm those people. Oh yeah. I think it is. I think that, well, the biblical way is definitely to harm people because is it, whenever Satan is like cast into hell or whatever, he's given the role of Satan.

He is the most powerful of all the angels. Like he's, he's the head honcho of all the angels. So he wanted to actually become God. And then God was like, oh, no, you can't do this. It's essentially like every other royal story that you hear where a good one would be Aladdin. Satan is essentially Jafar, like where he's Jafar. And then you have the sultan. And he wants to supplant the sultan, but you can't, because.

because he's assaulted. Now that's chaps, that's something that I wanted. I'm really glad we have you here to talk about this stuff. So Satan wanted to be, you know, as powerful and as mighty as God. God says, no, cast him into the lake of fire, whatever you want to use for that. So I guess the answer to this question might be that like that was always going to happen or whatever. But like, if Satan didn't do that, like did hell exist before that? well that's where predestination i think comes in huge like i i used to believe in it big time in predestination if you believe in predestination and the bible is pretty clear that i don't know how you can argue the bible and say that predestination isn't real like to me it's one there it's a

sandwich deal like that's the way that it goes down and what i mean by that is that like you've heard i'm sure i'm not sure if most of you i know big t has heard the term the lamb's book of life have you heard that word yeah that phrase so the lamb's book of life is essentially the book of heaven so if you have somebody that's standing there essentially and waiting for people to come into heaven they have this lamb's book of life and they check the name on the lamb's book of life to see if you can get in to heaven haven't got a club list this is oh yeah so yeah there's bouncer there's all kinds of stuff so like no t-shirts no white sneakers which are the same big south of the border like sign So this is a big thing in, like, youth groups.

You got to wear a mask and a face covering before you go there. So you have this whenever you're talking about it. What the fuck was I saying? Oh, Lamb's Book of Life. All right. So you have the Lamb's Book of Life. And if all the names are written down in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundations of the earth were laid, how in the world can somebody get their name into the book?

You can't add chapters. There's no amendments. The book is done. See, this is my problem, this is my big problem with God in general, right? Another, another one anyway. It's like, it's free will, right? So when people be like, yo, like, if anything bad happens, right, but like, oh, I'm going to pray for you.

I'm like, why? There's no point for you to pray for me. Because I'm doing God's will. You're doing God's will. Everybody's doing God's will. He knows what's going to happen talking to him or you talking to him. It's just no point to this shit. It's all predestined.

He knows what's going to happen. It's just like he's watching this shit. It's either all predestined or nothing is. It's like a really bad friends episode. The whole shit is pretty bad. That's actually, that would be hell for me. I was thinking about that. What is hell?

One of the Thanksgiving episodes? Hell is, no, it's like it could be any episode of Friends. Hell to me is me in a room. And then the next room over, somebody else is watching Friends while I'm trying to sleep. And then all I hear is the laugh track every three seconds. And I can't sleep. Oh, dude, you're literally put, you're literally putting. me in hell right now. Hell is listening to friends from an adjacent room or watching a football

game with the dude perfect guys. That to me, like, watching a football game that's buffering with the dude perfect guys. Yes. If I was, if I was the design of hell, right? If I was like hearing and reading and, and understanding what I do about hell and the devil and all that stuff, he's just mad. He's kind of like, low-key, like, God got it going on. And he was like, I want that. And God was like, no, it's like you have this he's like all right you don't fuck it then i'm going to make a room and that shit's gonna be cracking that's how it's like it's like it's like it's like another club but it's way cooler because you can't do all the fun shit up there so like i imagine it's gonna be like drugs and like fun this gonna be a big ass party it's gonna be way fun up there because he uptight

as shit so it's like i think even mark twain said that yeah it's like you know you don't you don't want to spend eternity with uh the enlightened you want to spend it with the damned and sinners because they know how to have fun which honestly at the end of the day if you end up and be like okay all the people who lived life straight to the book you go to heaven and everybody else who wants to do whatever the fuck they want have have any of y'all did any of y'all see the show the good place oh yeah was that the one of like portals uh yeah great tv show and it it talks about this stuff in like it's it's a comedy and it's obviously a fictitious rendering of heaven and hell but it actually talks about this stuff in a really cool way um

But they, I don't, spoiler alert for anybody that hasn't seen the show, they do eventually get to heaven. And when they get there, they realize that like everybody's been there forever. And it's kind of like not cool at all. Like everybody's just kind of tired of it. And then the end of the show is they kind of devise an end to that. But that's a holy, like how holy can you be? After a while, it's like, brother, I want to, I want my, some of the fun of shit to do is like,

gamble or play basketball and talk shit while you play basketball or like drink with your friends and talk shit to them. Like, that's the fun shit. And it's like, you just want to ride wing the horses and eat gingerbread cookies all day. That shit is boring, though. That shit is whack. It's fun to do bad stuff. As that kid in that viral video said, it's fun to do her red things with my friends. Exactly. Yeah. There's definitely some truth that. Because to me, like, hell would actually be the description that I've heard some people say heaven is. does that make any sense at all doesn't make that much it doesn't make that much it doesn't make yeah i don't want to sing all the time yeah i like to sing every now and i don't want fucking

sing all the time you got to wear white all the time and then there's stains everywhere you can't eat barbecue it's just there the description of two places i feel like that there's there's room to improve the description of heaven and hell if you're a person that's like involved in the church that's trying to that's what the good place does a really good job But they say that it's whatever you really wanted, that's your personal heaven. Like, everybody has their own individual heaven where they come in and they get their mansion in heaven. And it's exactly what they would have ever dreamed of. It's their dream houses, their dream cars, their dream life, essentially.

And you just live life again, but everything's perfect. So an interesting, interesting twist on it, right, is Dia de Muerthos. It's like, I think it's in Catholicism. I mean, a lot of Mexicans are there. Day of the Dead. yes day to day but like so a great vision to me

for me of the afterlife is I don't know you've seen the movie Coco Mm-hmm It's one of the best Disney movie That shit is a great movie though But it's like basically

You get to just exist in the afterlife just like you did in the in regular life You party, you drink at fun but as long as the living folks remember you and put you on this

What is it called? Afrienda A frienda The Afrienda like they put you on a on on they show your picture and then everybody in the family remembers them as long as they remember you you get to exist in there but when they forget you you like die off for good but to me like that that's a better that's the best tradition and the Texas American um crossover I think I love the a friend I think it's such a beautiful concept so you get to remember your falling put everybody's pictures out for a month and you hang out and you look at them and tell stories I tell my stories kids about old animals that we had or relatives that have passed away it's beautiful that's a great that's i remember my first uh dia de los meitos when i was in texas and it's obviously like a very strong mexican culture down there and so

everybody is walking around with their faces pain like skulls and at first i didn't understand what was going on then i learned more about it and you think it's evil yeah yeah that's that's another thing that like hell kind of has made us think of dead people as being evil like bad zombies zombies. Michael Jackson, too. He's the blame. Same thing. Good point. We just get a whole, we just get a whole episode.

No, no. Chaps just exonerated him of that too. We're going to lay off Mike Jack. But you're right, though. The thrill of it, stuff like zombies, the whole like evil ghosts, like shit like that. Could you imagine like dying and then like you have the whole universe to explore and you want to stay in somebody's fucking closet? Like that's just silly.

Well, I hadn't ever thought about this until yesterday. I was sitting in my, I was actually. taking a bath and I was hanging out and I like sat up I was like whoa Jesus was crucified and he was killed for three days so when he was resurrected he had rigor mortis yeah like I had never thought about that before like so did he like have to there was it like a button where he unrigomortis like one of those giraffes at the zoo where you like a toy giraffe where you punch it and his little legs collapse underneath it you're like that's the other thing no that's that's uh he had to take like a monster leak as soon as he got out of there yeah it's uh it honestly it fucks with the dead a little bit

the fact that we all think that dead people are evil just because they died guess what we're going to die too i don't want people to be like yo pf t's evil because he's dead i want them to be like yo pft's evil because he had little man syndrome and his opinions suck you know like remember me for the correct things but yeah like you think of dead people as being scary and they're not i think that's a little primal though you know just like the idea of a skull and decomposition as humans like as animals, you want to stay away from other dead animals of your kind, because it might mean you're next. Yeah, or because the smell of like rotting flesh, if they're dead for too long, then they're

going to poison you. Yeah. That whole thing. Yeah. I see that. I'm just thinking that dead people, they get a bad deal because they get lumped in with hell just because they're dead. But jump it back to kind of like our modern vision of hell, which does involve like all the

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You have to be 21 to purchase 3chee.com. I want to get into how we arrived at the modern vision of hell that we have because we've established that there were some pagan gods, some Greek gods, and they lifted, they sampled those. Christianity sampled some of those gods when they were kind of coming out with their new EP. But ultimately, there was a lot of stuff that we think about right now when it comes to hell that wasn't added in at all until like the 1300s. And then nothing was updated again until the 1600s. And the places that imagery came from were poems, two poems. directly influence what we think of when we think of that red cartoon devil and the hell

and the fire and all that stuff not anything from the bible but this is from two poems there was the divine comedy dante's inferno which i think was written in the 1400s 13 or 1400s i forget 1300 excuse me i get confused with the whole like it's close 13th century 14th century right yeah that's that's and they're one off stupid way to phrase things i hate that it fucks me up the 20th centuries in the 1900s so 14th century 14th century the divine comedy was real quick. It's to your point, but like it's, I think it's important just for people to understand from, I mean, because it didn't dawn on me to later my life, like how important arts are

to our culture. Like, it's literally the catalyst to how we view the world in that era. And people don't, like, we don't really understand how much culture, I mean, how much art influences our culture and how much culture influences the historicity of that moment that we're living in. Like, it shit is huge. I didn't dawn on me until, like, a few years ago. I was just, like, reading some history and realizing that, like,

and it just happened to be black history. But it was, like, how all of those artists in that era happened to be making, like, music that was, like, theme music for the civil rights movement. So, like, and then you look back in history, all of it, like, if you were to, if a civilization like dies and it goes away the two things that we keep from it is their art and their technology like whatever they develop scientifically and when they develop artistically and so it's like I just wanted to put that out there because it's like that it really dawned on me I don't think people really understand how important art is to our culture

yeah yeah no you're right because Dante when he wrote the divine comedy and one of the books is the Inferno. When he wrote that, I don't think he knew that, you know, 800 years from now, that would be people's idea of what hell was. That's what the majority of people in this country, if they don't get it from cartoons or pop culture, but even those derive themselves from what Dante wrote about hell, just kind of like, yeah, he was a scholar, but he was also just 100% speculating on what hell looked like. And the one thing that I respect the hell out of Dante for doing is in the inferno, he just put. his enemies and his contemporaries

that he thought were trash poets compared to him. He just put them in hell. He was like, I'm going to write a book about hell just so I can roast my biggest enemies in this. And I love the pettiness. So this was the first district. Yeah, it was this league amongst poets back then.

He like came with the fire for sure. And that's not, I'm not doing like puns or anything. I respect what Dante did for having that level of like, of pettiness in him to like write the. It's kind of like Dave when he pops champagne bottles. Yes.

Yes. It's a lot like that. So Billy pulled up a bunch of stuff about Dante's Inferno. If you haven't read Dante's Inferno, please do not read it. It's boring as hell. Just read the spark notes for it. But the most important part, I remember trying to read Dante's Inferno when I was in like, I don't know, 10th grade.

I was like, man, this sucks. Like one thing I don't understand. And at the worst, when there's a classic book that has, you know what the premise of the story is, and you're like, oh, I'm going to love this. And then you read it, and you're like, this is fucking terrible. Man, I don't want to read this. So I remember trying to read it and trying to keep an open mind about it and then understanding it was a translation.

I was like, wait a second. They put a rhyme scheme in a book that's been translated. Like, how far off the original does this have to be in order for them to make that motherfucker rhyme? Like, you're just, you're shoehorning all sorts of stuff in there just to try to make it make sense. That was some monk's job and some monastery to translate into English. That fuss of it so hard. like decades doing that yeah that would suck that would be the worst but bill he he uh pulled up a graphic here jamie sorry when you pull up graphics it's jamie jami jami pulled up a graphic of the circles

of hell and dante's in front you want to describe those real quick definitely so dante took a trip with oh which one was virgil virgil he took a trip through all the circles of hell with virgil and these are all the circles the first circle limbo is for the unbaptized and virtuous pagans including Virgil, Homer, Horace, Ovid, Socrates, Plato, and Saladin was thrown in there, who I think was the opposing general in the Crusades. Okay, so in the... Saladin. Yeah, I think you're right about that.

So the first circle is just like people who were chill but weren't necessarily Christian, right? So like unbaptized people. Yeah. Like babies. Like babies were there. All the babies were there. People that had been born centuries before that died, they were in the first circle of hell, which really first circle of hell

didn't sound that bad to me. It sounded a lot like the Greek concept of hell which is just like, just hanging out. Wasn't it? They had to keep like running around and they were getting stung by wasps. That was what they were doing? Was that in the first circle?

I thought that was a little bit later. I thought that at the beginning with the virtuous pagans, it was just like, okay, you're hanging out here, but you don't have God. So this is like a seven-story building. Nine.

The first level is... It's like an IKEA. Yeah, I didn't really fuck up, but you just didn't do the right thing. And then the next floor gets even, okay, I got you. You just got to hang out in the cart room at IKEA. That's all it is. So like your average atheist would be in there.

When did the horse meatballs come in? I will be in the first floor. And one of the things that where you said babies go there, that's another thing that's made up by modern Christians is the age of accountability. I'm sure that that, have you heard that where children aren't responsible? That's not a biblical concept at all. Really? What is the, what is the biblical concept?

Sam rules apply, that you have the sin nature from birth. You have it from birth. You're not perfect because you're a baby. You still have your sin nature. God, sniping babies, though. That's wild. Well, the crazy thing is. The first dude I ever heard preached that from the pulpit.

Yikes. Yeah. That was a bad one. That's one of those where if you're a preacher, you just, you keep that one in your back pocket. You never really break that one. You need to call Herm Edwards and don't press sin. Yeah, don't. Exactly.

There's really no need. to dive into that one be like sorry the branding issues the branding issue is like if you try to convert somebody or convince somebody like yeah you probably want to get your baby on board fam i'm just saying you're getting questions from like a press conference and be like where do babies go whenever they die we got any other questions any other questions here here guys so i kind of want to do an exercise with these circles we're going to get through them because you know we can talk all day about each circle but i'm going to read the description of each of the nine circles in um Dante put contemporary people of his time in each circle.

And I think at the end of it, we should put a couple of people from our contemporary time into it just like to give everyone a sense of what's going on. So like for the first circle, we're just going to put Arian Foster. And then the second circle. I would put flow from progressives in the first circle. It seems like that's where she hangs out all the time.

Anyway, I've always thought that about the progressive commercials. Like that seems like purgatory or possibly the first level of hell. So the second. They're a religious allegory. From Willie Wonka, big time purgatory guy. Yeah. What's epic TV?

So you think the progressive commercials are like a religious allegory? No. I don't think that they're intentionally a religious allegory, but I just think that like the first circle of hell for me would be flow in a very clean environment trying to talk to me about car insurance. Okay. That's fair. So the second circle. Every circle everybody gave one example of who's in there. I like that.

I like that. Second circle, lust. Souls are blown about in a violent storm without hope of rest. Francesca de Ramini and her lover, Paolo, are here. So, like, do our people for these have to be dead yet? Because I know somebody who will, who will be there, but he's not dead yet. No, it's contemporary, big tea. Well, let's not put alive people in hell.

Well, I'm putting off. I just put him in there. I mean, that's, you just put me in hell, bro. I would you admit it yourself. I wouldn't have done, I wouldn't have volunteered that. I wouldn't have volunteered that. But anyway, my God for lust is Bill Clinton. Okay.

I knew that was going to happen. Wow. Mine's Matt Gates. Not Trump, huh? No, I, yeah. He's big horny. My, who would I put? Come on, Bill.

Who's horny? Who would you? This is a horny. This is horny jail. Yeah, it's horny jail. Yeah, it's the second circle of lust. Put myself, hand up. Forgy jail.

FFT. It's me watching a Miley Cyrus concert on repeat. The third, the third circle. to give one bill okay um can i can i can i can i can i get my yes who ron jeremy m big time ron jermy's on floor too bro he made a lot of people happy though yeah but he got his his recent allegations are oh yeah yeah is he problematic the hedgehog how to fuck how do you you do that and you do that for a living like bro just go do a she like do a thing like call your agent tell him you want to do this what do you do you do this what do you do

So, wow. It got a sexual assault allegation. Oh, shit. All right. I got to go delete some things from my spank bank. I mean, he could definitely go to hell for that. I mean, I don't. I like how we're like, oh, well, he did sexual assault.

We can't include him in the hell game. No, I was going to say, we got to level him up. Yeah, no, you can't blow your load too early on some of these names. Of course not. So are you saying, were you saying that Rick Petino should be in the second level? That would actually make sense. Yeah, second level. Actually, I was thinking of someone, I was like, no, like, let's save that guy for later.

Okay, third circle, gluttony. The gluttons are forced to lie in a vile, freezing slush guarded by curberus, and the Chaco of Florence is here. That's interesting that lust is below gluttony. Like, hunger is above. I don't know how broadly we're to find the food, though, back in the 1,200s. Yeah. That's fine. I mean, yeah, food was less scarce.

I don't know how strict we want to get with our definition of gluttony, but this is putting me in a real precarious position. Yeah, is gluttony in this? I would. I did go to the gym this morning. I crushed it. Is this like BMI? Yeah,

we're like technically we're all gluttons. Yeah. Well, it's habitual greed. But there has to be a cutoff, right? So it's like, it's like a height and weight cutoff where you're like, if you're diss,

you got to be dised. And then there's different discrepancies. I don't know how, how realistic. I think it has to do with all resources. Okay. So in that case, I'm going to put Michael Phelps in his mind. Have you seen the meals that means?

Yeah. But he was burning it. He was burning. But still, like, he didn't have to. He was swimming. But he was swimming because he chose to swim. Food in America is very easy to, like, it's, I think you can't put Michael Phelps in there. I'm putting Michael Fulbs in there like, deal with it.

It's my hell. Dick Cheney. What? Dick Cheney, he's not that fat. No, no. It has to do with allocation of resources. So, like, for example, if you're, I'm going to steal. If you're going to invade.

Okay, Aryan, on three, we're going to say, we're going to say ours. I think it's going to be the same person. Ready? Okay. One, two, two, three, Bezos. Americans. Okay. I thought you were going to say Bezos there.

You're a big anti-Bezos guy. He's an American. I mean, we're all great. Like, we're greedy as shit. Like, we don't need the shit. You guys are going to. I want for mine, Tammy, from Thousand Pound Sisters. I like that.

I'm going to toss Chris Christie in there, too. I don't think fat. Not for the fat. part, but for the beach stuff when he took the entire, Mike Huck and be going to, too. He ate the entire beach by himself. That was fucked up. Well, I'm not familiar with that. So he shut down all the beaches in New Jersey.

There was like a, I forget exactly what was going to the government shutdown or whatever, but he closed the public beaches in Jersey for weeks in the summer, except him and his family were allowed to go out there. And so there was a picture like a helicopter flying over the beach. That's just him and his family on this wide open beach, just like post. Which is a flex. He also poured multiple M&M bags into a bigger MNM box. Oh, yeah.

I love that. Yeah. My favorite Chris Christie and a note is when he went to the White House after Trump first got elected. And Trump made him eat meatloaf dinner, even though he doesn't like meatloaf. Like he was like, oh, you got to try the meatloaf. And Chris Christie was like, I don't want the meatloaf. He's like, he's going to have the meatloaf. He didn't want the meatloaf.

And he ate the meatloaf. So the fourth circle is. the white house get fucking meat hold on real quick i can't can't i think about all 32 nfl owners what about the green bay packers

that now you just upped it to like 40 000 oh he already said americans yeah true i just wanted to highlight them but okay until they give guarantee contracts fuck them dudes uh the fourth circle this one's

I had to look up the sins on these ones averice in prodigality so the miserly and spendthrift push great heavy weights together crashed them time and time again plutus guards them sounds like crossfit bros i know i think they were they were forced to do crossfit in hell yeah they had to battle each other with boulders these no this is what is this what is this what is this floor yeah this okay so this one's greed and lust for material gain so i think dick chene would actually

mean this one so this is so like power yeah i think unfortunately i think the third the glutton aren't just gluttons are fat i choose to believe that that is that is a higher threshold than i've attained kim cardassian yeah yeah in the fourth circle you could honestly erin if you if you wanted to nitpick you could put NFL owners in every single circle hell i agree that i agree with that and i will hmm when i'm not when i'm at the periligates i'm going to be like yo what's up with uh where jerry jones in yeah i think just they care of him scrooge like you know that sort of type vibe you know scrooge before his dreams what this one is this is a more difficult concept i think the grinch had a point they both had solid points but but they were

the greedy the avarice they weren't greedy that was the whole thing no they anyway wait this was not greedy just in concept in concept no the grinch wasn't greedy i think erian's right the grinch wasn't gritty he was just he was just a grinch just grumpy and i think this one is different from the other ones because you have you want people to go out and try to be successful and be go geters and then they get to a certain level of success and they're like you're like not that successful not like that we don't want you to do it that way the next the fifth circle wrath and sullenness the wrathful fight each other on the surface of the sticks while the sullen gurgle beneath it philippo argenti is here all right so they're fighting on the river right that's what i'm seeing

There's like a naval battle that's going on in the fifth. Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano is in here. Ooh. Let's see. Wrath. I mean, I think we all know, like some of our bosses are really into wrath. But would you call that wrath?

The popping in the bottom? Skip Baylis. I'm doing Skip Bayliss. Michael Jackson's father. I'm with that. I'm okay with him in the fifth circle. I like Skip Bayliss in this one. I like that. Well, he's not.

The thing about Skip is I don't find him intimidating enough. Like, I don't fear Skip's wrath. In fact, all the people that endure Skip Bayliss's wrath end up becoming more successful afterwards because he's addicted to being wrong, right? Like, you know that you fucked up if Skip Bayliss is your biggest cheerleader. That's when the wrath of Skip really comes when he praises you too much. So just like, yeah, who else would you put in here? And wrath and sullenness.

So sullenness, that's kind of a grinch, right? Just being like, just having a sour face. all the time energy vampires oh energy vampire so you know who's in this circle of hell big energy vampire practically he used the term a lot butch jones butch jones is in the fifth circle of hell okay hmm that's a very niche reference but those who get it might be really like that one might be controversial describe to me the qualifications of this circle again wrath so like people who abuse power to punish and sullenness

All right. So I got to go with the biblical version of God. Ooh. That's a spicy tale. This just got very metal. He's in the fifth circle to me, bro. I mean, he is there, there isn't a chaps, correct me if I'm wrong, but God has a higher body count, killwise, than the devil in the body. I mean, not even close.

Everybody on earth with Noah's flood. Come on. So, as, bro, that's wrath. That's literally what he. so sullenness is anger that is repressed so very passive aggressive people well you can say that too about Noah's flood whereas like he's just watching

like Job motherfuckers Job that's just vent a vengeful fucking dude man I mean that's what God is called in the Old Testament he's a god of wrath yeah it's facts he's in there it's the sixth circle is heresy

Harris Harris heretics it was avarice earlier i don't want to correct you because you were you're doing so well it's okay he's doing he's doing a great job heretics are trapped in flaming tombs florentines farinata degli uberti and cavalcante de cavalcante are here so heresy i'm going to go ahead and go first for this one i'm going to i'm going to put myself there yeah if if any if any of a religion is actually true if christianity is true i'm big fucked because i'm I have all the knowledge of my brain, and I'm like, no, that's not real.

I think I'd be super screwed. Yeah, you're like, you're the ultimate turncoat spy. You're like the, was it Ethel Rosenberg from the 50s that sold us out, gave the nuclear secret secrets away? I would put in, uh, in heresy, um, pretty much every, every popular musician that's come around since the six. So you got ACDC, you got Rolling Stones. You got little Naz-X in there. It's funny you say that. Mine was little Naz-X.

You got Black Sabbath. You got just a ton of people. Motorhead. Motorhead. Corn. Really, the list goes, they could put on a pretty kick-ass concert in level six of hell. Man, bro.

This shit sounds popping. It looks like it sounds like pirate techniques, flaming tunes. This whole thing is a place where you'd like to have like a glass of bourbon with one cube in it and just walking around and hanging out with everybody. Seven-story club. You go off the levels and cool shit happens. I'm not a fan. Jeremy, what are you doing?

here. Oh, fuck. I heard about your case. Don't put your drag down. Sounds like a musical festival. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think that we should put together a music festival called the Sixth Circle. And just have like all the bands that had satanic imagery play.

And it would be awesome. People go to it. Seventh Circle. Because if you honestly believe that. J.C. Avinced sevenfold. Yeah. If you're worse, if people actually believe that because ACDC put on blinking red devil horns when they come out to play the intro of Thunderstruck,

that they're like worshipping evil and that they want to kill babies or whatever you want like that's insane to me that people actually, they're just doing it because it looks badass and like we said earlier, it's fun to do hoodwrap things with your friends. That might as well be the description of like while these bands do the satanic imagery things is for that and also just to piss off people's parents so that their kids are going to want to buy the music more. Yeah.

Provoc. provocative because the people going so the seventh circle violence this sounds official the violent against people and property the suicides the blasphemers the sodomites and the usurers uh the violence i i don't think that uh usurers and sodomites should be lumped in with the violent the who and saddamat well this also us i believe this also like violent against god was also and that sodomites that is from that time period so that really means rapist is what that means okay retracted okay they're in there usurers that has to do with the complex banking systems right lending money yeah so lending money at the 1200s i don't know about to say what no but like what would you is that

to direct translation of usurer it means city group oh wait are they a sponsor okay yeah i mean city group um i mean can we get like a fact check it like So usually is lending money at high rates at excessive rates. I don't know. So payday loaners. Payday loaner. And yeah, I agree with that actually.

I take back actually both things that I said. College. Oh, those dudes now. Those agents that are giving out the loans to the where you have to give a portion of your contract if you go to the NFL. NCAA. No, I know what Chaps is talking about.

There was a guy who just, he's like the first guy to make it to the major leagues who did that. Wasn't it? Was it at Okuna? No, it was, it's some guy. He's not like a big name yet, but they, or no, it was Tatis. It was Tatis. When he signed his big deal, that's what it was.

Yeah, Tatis owes like half of his contract to this. Yeah, they, they gave him a big loan when he was in the minors and now he owes them like whatever percentage of his contract. So I'm also huge, too. It's like 20% or something. I'm putting whoever made student loans not be able to be put in bankruptcy. So like every other loan, if you go bankrupt, they get, uh, written off or whatever but student loans remain yeah i'm putting discover bank in the seventh circle of

helks i owe them quite a bit of money it's crazy though to think that the whole the whole payday lending business was such a big part of the economy for so long the uh the the pawn shops like i forget what the name of the uh nationwide pawn shop i think it was like easy pawn or something like that um the what they did to poor people in this country is fucking gross like i knew people that had to use that when I was working down in Texas, like some of my coworkers would have to go there because like their car broke down. They needed a new set of brake pads or something like that. And they would have to go get a payday loan at these places. And the rates that they were getting just to get a one week advance on their paycheck would put them in debt for the rest of

their life. It was like, it was honestly sick that they were able to get away with it for so long. Sorry, I'm off my soapbox now. I just, I fucking hate. They're back. You're back in the seventh circle. You're in violence. Fuck you. Um, the eighth circle. fraud panders and seducers flatterers sorcerers and false prophets liars thieves and ulysses and diomedes what the fuck is that one that's so light that's so light

the priorities of the devil well no this is this is the thing is this has to more this has to do with like you know the cult of personality type stuff like um dictators people who seduce a large amount of people to do like I mean,

Wilts Chamberlain? Allegedly. No, but seducers. No, Wilchamber, I think, would be in lust if we're like, you know, if we're saying that pre-marital sex is like bad. But this is more like people like Napoleon, like leaders who sort of, I'm saying, I'm, I, Hitler is guilty of this, but I'm putting him in the ninth circle. Yeah, cult leaders. Like, you know.

Trump the whoever start yeah well anyway but but the thing is some of these people like ulysses and diomedes I mean they were like the the Odyssey was written after Odysseus who's Ulysses

yeah why do you that's what I'm curious about why do you put Ulysses in there what do you listen to that was that bad I might be just completely ignorant I would yeah I mean I he did I think he did seduce his men into doing,

because he was the leader of a lot of men and he made them do things that might have not been the best. Just for him, just that he could get back to his wife. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So, yeah.

Okay. If that's like the worst person that you can think of. I think it's because it involves a lot of people. Yeah, that's true. Achilles. Work hard, play hard. Mm-hmm. Back in the day.

Yeah. So the seducers, I think that maybe there's a better translation than like seducers and was that of the panderers swindlers like the um burney yeah Bernie made yeah I thought you want to say Bernie Mac I was like oh no I would never like frauds the Baltimore Ravens like people who take advantage of their power and like oh what about foul ball guy now you think he's a fraud well I think he's a swindler I think that he knows where to go and like gets him

he steals balls from children that's got to get you know he you can pay like some outrageous amount of money to go to a game with him and he will catch balls for your kids yeah and so he that's kind also the the what was the other one that's the most niche version of cameo yeah mine and it's like an outrageous amount it's like a thousand dollars what about uh well he's also a fraud because he gets most of his balls from just going to batting practice he just gets their five hours before everybody and is the only person they outfield with a glove and then he counts those as the balls that he catches i'm gonna hang out in left field when this guy's batting wow what a brilliant strategy all mall cops mall cops mall cops mall cops is frauds i don't know mall cops they

have a job to do they're just getting paid they're the worst mall cop story was that one dude who was went viral i think it was on vine for farting like he was fart uh mall fart instead of the other one, and he would constantly fart on Vine and he got fired for it from his security job? Terrible. I think my, I have a problem with mall cops that love being mall cops. I don't have a problem with mall cops that are just, that's their job, you know? That's what I'm with that.

You know, a lot of kids stir up shit malls. That's what I'm saying. I was definitely guilty of it. That's why I'm saying like, yeah, I, uh, I feel bad about things that I did to mall cops back in the day. It was just like, here's a really easy authority figure that you can. target with no consequences honestly who's making minimum wage yeah it's got a pussy move on my part to do that when I was a kid Walmart attendance yep you're

fucking Walmart attendants yeah that's fucked up I'm sorry you're you're you're in the first circle no when you're when you're like like on black Friday fucking around and Walmart yeah all right let's keep moving we're on circle nine now right yeah this is the last circle treachery betrayers of special relationships chips are frozen in a lake of ice, Satan, Judas, Brutus, and Cassius are here. Sounds like somebody got, Dante got cheated on. I'm about to say a heartbroken, nigga, wrote this shit, man. You're in the top floor of hell, don't rape this murderers.

Like, why I was there, but like, no, if you cheat on me, though, you're on the top. He's just like my ex-wife in Circle 9. Yeah. The end. Well, wasn't that, isn't that in the, in the poem like he's trying to get. to his his uh beatrice or whatever like the woman that he loved right like that was part of this whole poem so like i think that is that lends itself to the fact that yeah he was he was pissed off he was down bad yeah he was down bad i love that i love that sally ins it he's like and finally

sharon sharing my wife that bitch that's sad though though though like the folklore of hell ends with like a cat who got cheated on I don't think I think he's Lee he might have she inspired the imagery that we have in our heads today though that's all because she was horny that's fucked up where they put the adulterers in here arian this also goes back to what we were saying I think a couple episodes ago how like most great pieces of art

either come from somebody being horny or being sad and that's Taylor Swift prime example that's about it so that's yeah that's adultery is in the second circle it's not the last circle okay just one so down bad's the second adulting

no I like it better when it's the last one Billy says adulting a lot I just cannot adult today we put like Hitler here it's the worst word we've ever allowed to become a verb continue yeah agree Hitlering that too

yeah like Saddam maybe sure dictators yeah I guess Saddam Stalin yeah pretty bad yeah

Basher al-Assat what's the what's the death toll were you Al-Zarkawi Zarqawi is a good one yeah he's going to be the coach of the Tennessee volunteers right no that was

the 9-11 guy oh yeah that's right yeah that was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed yeah I have a hard time keeping the Tennessee volunteers head coaches straight sorry Osama Jeremy Pruitt's in the 8th

though he's a fraud okay so so that's the divine comedy that's dante's inferno then the other poem that we get a lot of our current imagery from is from uh paradise lost by milton and that was written somebody helped me out here was that 1600s 17th century that was a little later paradise lost and the problem in paradise lost is that uh he starts to write about heaven but then like it's boring to read about heaven isn't that crazy how like it's actually it's boring to read about the best place ever. And so he starts to talk about hell because then you have a conflict and then you've got bad stuff happening and people are like, okay, I'm into that. But there was a lot more imagery in Paradise Lost that goes back to like the fire, the brimstone, the pokey stuff,

to always getting stabbed, the fires, all that stuff, the devil looking like the devil. And that's really where a lot of the description of Satan comes from too. And it is, it's crazy to think that like all the stuff that we think about hell really comes from things that people have written about hell way, way after the fact of the Bible. No, that makes sense, though, because, I mean, from a logical standpoint, it's made up anyway. And so it just became a big game of telephone. And after a while, that's exactly what, you know, we believe. So when you look at the historicity of Jesus, right?

And you can attest to this, chaps, right? And tell me what I'm wrong, right? Whereas, like, more than likely there was a guy that existed that was, like, a good dude. There is no evidence of his divinity, right? But, like, to me, what happened was, like, he was a good dude. And after a while, it just grew, like, telephone. You could have 17 kids in the same room. You tell him something.

And at the end of it, that's something totally different. So over 2,000 years, like, he may have, like, you know, grab somebody, some water, from the lake that was Thursday, whatever, and all of a sudden, 2,000 years later, he's walking on the shit, right? So I think more than likely that's what's happened with the evolution of humans and our way of storytelling

has transpired over the years, has just exaggerated. And also, to PFT's point, is like, we love blood. I mean, think about it. TMZ is a thing. Like, it's just nothing but gossip and nonsense and bullshit, it, but it has millions and millions of followers because, like, we love blood.

We're just sharks. We love blood in the water. Yeah, I mean, I do think that you're right there. There is a lot of, there's a dude named Josephus. Have you ever heard of Josephus? Yeah. And he was an ancient Greek, like, historian, and he took down a lot of the stories of Jesus. And some of them were back up and substantiated.

But I think that the historical Jesus, clearly, like, was important to the area because not It's not only huge in Christianity, but also in Islam, where Jesus is one of the chief prophets. So it's, I think that it definitely crossover culture, but I totally see what you're saying, where eventually it's going to be, you might have that, did you see LeBron, he dropped 80 type of thing, where you forget, he was really great, but he wasn't as great as you remember. Mm-hmm. Was that LeBron Slander? Was that slick LeBron Sunday?

No, but he didn't average 80. I hate you. I hear you. I hate you. So before we get into, I want to finish up the show with two things. One, I want to power rank the different names for Satan because there are a bunch of names out there. And I think that some of them are very cool. Some of them suck. And also we have a bunch of emails to get to you guys. We're going to try to answer those. But before we do, Billy wants to talk to you guys about, what is it, Billy? You want to tell the people how to schedule some recreational activities? Well, no. So basically, I, you know, one of the, I don't golf that. much but you know one of the hardest time things about golfing is uh you know getting a time to tee off so uh the golf season is in full swing and now is the perfect time to get on the course the barstool team have put together a golf time app so if you're trying to book a tea time look no further as we barstool are officially announcing the launch of the barstall golf time app in partnership with supreme golf, the Barstool Golf Time allows you to book T-Times at thousands of courses. After you book, take a picture or video of the course you're on and submit an official review. Riggs, Frankie,

Trent, and Lurch's reviews are on the app as well, so you can join them along with your friends. Other cool features such as the Barstool Golf Rewards to get free merch will be rolling out soon. Don't be an idiot. Download the Barstool Golf Time app today, now available in the App Store. So for all you golfers out there, that is going to be a tool that's going to sign a tool that's going to significantly help you book tea times i like it significantly the uber of golf the uber of golf there you go so um real quick running through the names of satan there are a ton of them out there there is lucifer there is beelzebub mephistopheles morning star satan as as we commonly refer to him and uh what else am i missing the devil the devil okay so out of all those i would rank

morning star last morning serpent oh the serpent yeah the serpent i think i just think that morning star is like it sounds like um some holistic yoga mom that's like a vegetarian breakfast sandwich yeah yeah like one that tastes like wheat like the bun is super crumbly you know um what about bafamette baffamette baffamette i think that's that's cooler that's number one to me that shit is amazing. What a dope ass name. Yeah, that's who they execute all the Knights Templar for worshipping as like Satan.

I'm aelzebub guy. Yeah, Beelzeb. That's 1A1B to me. Beelzebub and Baphimit. Beelzebub is actually, it means Lord of the Flies. Beelzebub sounds like a lady's name though. Which was a great movie. I can't find that shit anywhere.

Oh, the movie Lord of the Flies? Yeah. I read the book, not to brag. I don't think I've ever seen the movie. I didn't know there was a movie. you just hit me with that bro i don't think he was that guy i don't think he was that again i read the spark notes yeah uh but yeah i'm going to go with beelzebub i i think that satan is a i mean it just sounds kind of cool uh lucifer is right in the middle you know what you're going to get lucifer he made no bad song lucifer is the name that he puts on like job applications yeah i like yeah when he wants to get yes i agree with that uh so yeah that's that's kind of where i stand

and all that. So that's the power ranking of Satan's names. We got some email. What was number one? You do. Oh, I kind of jumped around a little bit, I guess. I like Beelzebub. All right.

I'm with that. Oh, by the way, you know, fun fact, did you know the largest religion in the world before Christianity was something called Zoroastriism? That was, so like the, I'm pronouncing it terribly. But have you ever heard of Zoroastrianism? Yep. like i have not it turns out it's bigger than like it had the most followers of the world at like

the 11th century old school shit yeah crazy do you know what it what it was about uh they had a mad heads yeah it's mad heads that's probably what would have happened to that hill song church in new york if that pastor dude wasn't fucking everybody well yeah maybe that was his goal was to just fuck everyone and then he's got but before you know like the biggest religion in the history of the world because they're all those children. Oh, that would be so great to be a cult leader, though. If you could do anything and being a cult leader would be so dope. Do you think that cult leaders ever, like, look into the mirror and they think to themselves

like, I'm such a gigantic fraud, or do you think they've kind of evolved past that? Dude, what do you think Warren Jeff's, that guy that was the polygamist that had all those that was like molesting all those girls, like that he looks in the mirror and he's like, yeah, I'm the one next to God. He looks like a fucking weenie. I think after a while you just convince yourself you justify yourself

wherever you're at you just justify what you're doing is the correct thing to do Yeah are there any podcast cult leaders that we know of No No definitely not Definitely not

None None that I know of We will do cult reviews at some point That was one of the first things that we said In part of my take was we're going to join a cult And do a review of it But let's get to the, what are we going to call this? The hell box.

Yeah. The whole, let's call it the hell box. All right. So thank you to everyone who submitted email. There were a lot. We can only get to some. But if you did, we love you. Thank you.

Here's one from Tristan McLean. He said in Shintoism, Japanese, all souls go to hell to have a miserable existence forever, no matter what actions in life. I kind of like that. So it teaches you. I mean, talk about predeterminism. Yeah, just that's probably why they eat so healthy and have the longest lifespans of anybody on Earth.

Yeah, and it's just like have a good time. Do everything that you want to do now because it's going to suck later. Okinawa, like that, you wouldn't bat an eye if you saw somebody that was over 100. There's like so many old people. There's one lady there. The oldest person on earth is 118. So this one's really interesting.

This one's from Nick Villarreal. He said there is no concept of hell in the traditional sense within Taoism. but they have a hellish purgatory known as Diju. Diju is a place in which souls are punished and renewed in preparation for reincarnation. In Tau Hell, there are 18 levels or layers, all equally brutal and hilarious. You guys want to hear some of them? Sure. The Chamber of the Tongue Ripping.

Those who stir up troubles by gossiping will find their tongues being ripped out. TMZ. Yep. I like it. I like this. The chamber of scissors. Those who break the marriage of others will have their fingers. fingers cut off.

All right. I don't know how to say this word. Chamber of Iron C-Y-C-A-D-S. Cicades? Cicadas. Cicades. I think it's just Ciccads. Something like that. Chamber of iron saccads. Those who cause discords among family members of others will be hung on iron trees.

Oh, Sycad is like, it looks like a palm tree with a giant fruit in it a little bit. So it's just iron trees and then they hang people from it. Got it. See, if you're going to write something like that. that you got to make it a tree that everybody knows you got to go palm tree you can't be this really specific imagine it hung from a palm tree bro what the fuck you just wiggle a little bit and then you fall yeah better be an oak better be something sturdy uh number four nice texas white oak yeah is the chambers of mirrors of retribution to those who manage to escape the punishment

for their crimes during earthly life will be shown their true shape So you just look at yourself all the time. Sounds like a fortune cookie. Mm-hmm. That sounds a lot less bad than having your fingers and tongue-trip-dall. Looking at yourself all the time? I mean, I could live with that. You could look at you.

Are you narcissists? I don't know. That seems like the religious version of I'm not mad at you. I'm just disappointed. Yeah. You sit here and think about what you did. I actually think that having to stare directly at yourself for eternity would be a sneaky bad punishment. They drive you insane.

That would be fucking brutal, man. That would be brutal. at all. I don't know. I mean, that's why the whole concept of anything after life, well, especially biblically, it's fucking stupid. Like, okay, like, say you do the worst shit on Earth, like eternity you spend in hell, like eternity dog,

like you spent 70, tops, 80 years on Earth. And, like, this universe is 13.8 billion years old, and you got to spend the rest of that shit. And, like, this is just so silly. No, like, so there's actually, there's an argument against hell that's because everyone has a finite amount of sin they can commit on earth. Like, for example, if you lived, like, you know, the max human lifespan, like 120 years or whatever, like, in that 120 years, you could only commit so much sin, like, even if you sin, like, every second. So because of that, yeah, it's not justice. Yeah, it's not an equitable punishment of, like, a semi-benevolent God would never do.

do that. There's also a- Billy Graham actually made that argument too. Yeah. Makes sense. And there's actually

this cool theory that I read about called the empty health theory. And, you know, this is under Catholic, you know, belief system.

So that while, even if you don't, you know, find final grace and repent, everyone repents while they die automatically because once

they realize they're about to die, they immediately repent. And thus, because they repent and don't go to hell, there's no one in hell. It's empty. I disagree with that. I'll tell you why. So there's a story.

Sorry time. My first anxiety attack, I didn't know what it was, right? Like when people said I have anxiety, I thought that meant they just like worry about shit all the time. And I used to be like, you stop worrying about shit. But that's not what anxiety or panic attacks are. So people that don't know real quick, panic attacks are like physical symptoms that you exude because of the mental state that you're in. So like heart palpitations

heavy. It feels like somebody sitting on your chest. And so for me my first one, what happened was it was sparked by an edible. I ate an edible. And all of a sudden my heart started pounding like crazy, which is kind of normal when you smoke. And I've been smoking since

I was a kid, so it was normal. But after a while I started getting like, it's not going away. And it was just like pounding to pounding. And I was like, damn. And then I was suddenly, I felt like I couldn't breathe. Right? I started like, that getting shortness of breath where I feel like I could take a deep breath. And then all of a sudden, like, my hands started going numb, like tingling. And it started creeping up.

Like, it started creeping up, like the tingling. And then it was like almost like a cramp. Like my hand started cramping, my arm started cramping. And it's like creeping up. And it's going to somebody. I was like, oh, I'm having a heart attack. I'm dying. Like, this is, I'm dying.

I thought I was dying. And the shorty that I was with that was time, she called the paramedic. She was like, yo, he's having a heart attack. heart attack, because, like, I thought it was a heart attack. I didn't know, like, I'm, I'm sitting here like this, like, thinking I'm dead. But specifically, so to your point, I remember vividly thinking, oh, this is it. Like, I don't believe, I don't believe in that shit. So, like, this is it. And so I thought about my kids. I started thinking about, like, things that I love to do and things that I'm going to miss out on. But I specifically remember thinking, like, is there

a, no, fuck that. I'm just, I had the same thought process to you after I got shot. I was sitting underneath the stairwell and thinking about my kids and family. That's it. wasn't thinking about afterlife yeah no but but they're claiming these are catholic the catholicians like the when you're going towards the let's say that word again theologians yep that's close that's we said the first time okay when have i ever heard that we've said it like four times during this are you smart though bro i really i don't think theologian okay theologian there's yeah so they're like saying like that going towards the light type thing And even once you get to light, maybe before you get to Heaven's Gate, you repent.

So they give you one last chance, last chance, kitchen to go back on it. But then if they're saying it's nobody. It's gone like one, it's two. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. It is fascinating, though, to read people that have done studies of folks that have had near-death experiences and seeing like people who are really close to dying. I'm talking about like some people that have died. on the operating table have their heart stop have you know just came as close as you can come

to dying and how a lot of people have like very very similar experiences in that state show on a whole episode on that because what really got me into that was a DMT DMT is fucking fascinating and what so fascinated is like you said like everybody has a very eerily similar experience. And I don't know if it's because that's what you expect, like the near-depth experience. And so that's kind of what you imagine or if it's actually what you experience. It's fascinating. Now we are actually the Joe Rogan podcast. We've finally, we've made the final evolution. Billy has has found a way to engineer a Joe Rogan experience here at Barstall. So he is geeking right now. How is it? You guys made this podcast. No, I'm not. You guys made

this podcast. I know. Billy actually was a happy accident. You named it macro dosing. Billy was a happy accident to join this podcast. He found out about the night before it started. And he was like, can I, can I be your Jamie? And I was like, absolutely, Billy. That's perfect. I'm just saying, saying DMT and being like, oh, it's your fault. We're talking about DMT.

And the podcast is about psychedelics. Come on. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. But we love you, Jamie. We do. Thanks.

We do. Anybody have anything else? Do we want to take one more? Is there one last good hell pail? Hmm. Let's dig through here. Hellbox. I forget what I.

call the hellbox religion is very psychologically healthy for people who truly believe like going to church or going to a place of worship and people who truly when they leave they get the same endorphins as if someone who worked out yeah there you go that's why you like it always I also think that teaching I am not really just anymore but I teach my kids the things that Jesus said I mean if you blessed are the poor and spirit like if you like take care of people like be a good person like hunger and thirst after righteousness is matthew five six i think that that's a great mantra to live your life by is to try to be as nice and kind as you possibly can good shit i've actually ever since starting this podcast i've been going back and doing a lot

more research into the things i was taught as a kid about quakerism and about like the lessons that we learned in church and actually like through doing the show and talking about it it's made me more in tune with the things that i was taught when i was growing up in that church and the more I look at it, it's just basically like what you said, chaps, it's like believe in these teachings. And then if somebody may, if somebody thinks that like believing in heaven will make them be a better person, then that's awesome. Good for them. But that's not contingent on you. Like one thing does not have anything to do with the other. And in the eyes of those teachings. So I wouldn't consider myself like, you know what? I'm dangerously close to becoming a

basic bitch and saying like I'm not religious, but I'm very spiritual. I almost said that. I I almost fucking said that a second ago. And if I ever, if those words ever leave my mouth. You start asking people what your sign is. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I want you to fire me if I ever say those words. So, so from, from a, from a atheistic standpoint, right?

I used to be one of them atheists who would challenge religious people on the doctrine. I would challenge it as you know, on all the time because I used to think it was like harmful. I used to think it was like detrimental to society. You should think religion was like a disease. But I've grown since then, and I feel like it is a cultural coping mechanism for the fact that we don't know why the fuck we're here. Like we just wake up one day and you're like, okay, I got to do things and they're doing things. I'm going to do the things that they do. And I don't like, it's just a weird, like, the earth is a weird place.

And we're just all here. It's just a wild thing if you actually just sit and think about it. But religion is kind of like this coping mechanism of like it gives people purpose. It gives people like, oh, this is why we're here. There's somebody watching over us. And so although I don't believe that shit, I do believe that people don't have the luxury to sit and think about these things because they're trying to pay the bills, right, which is a whole other economic conversation. But the majority of people's time is spent trying to just keep the lights on as they don't have the luxury to sit and think philosophically or theologically about all of these conundrums or whatever. And so where I used to be like super down on religion, I'm like, you know, people need that shit.

People don't have the time to sit and sort out morality on a philosophical level that has the depth that a lot of these philosophies have on it. And so it's like, so for me, now I look at religion and it's like, okay, it's just like a foundation to people trying to get an understanding of how to be good and how not to be good. And so like while I don't, I don't agree with it, right? So, like, so super staunch, like, religious people, like, they piss me off. Like, and I'll go at them. But for people who are just, like, casually, like, I'll go egg now and then. Like, I'm with you, man. Just be a good person.

It could definitely have a placebo effect for mental health, no doubt. So, you know, everyone thinks anxiety and depression or these new things the young kids have. But no, like, when people had it, like, you know, back in the day, they would pray because they truly believed in, you know, what they believed in. And prayer would like stop anxiety, stop anxiety attacks, and instill hope, which a lot of people, you know, you, it's definitely, you know, my generation is much less religious than the ones before us because we grew up in a totally different environment. But that has been, that has always been the case, though. Like, and that's the thing about like conservatism, not to get political, I apologize. But if you look at that conservatism, like all it is, all it does and all religious fundamentalism does is conceive ground over time.

because after a while you realize that the like when you really put those views and that ideology under a microscope like it just doesn't hold ground like it can't yeah there's this dude named rcci sprawl who's one of the like foremost thought leaders in reformed theology and he talked about that he said that he firmly believes what real real quick real quick what is reform theology um so reform theology would be like they are the ones who believe primarily in destination. So like if you're studying Calvinism or something like that, that would be a reformed version. Presbyterians will also have a reformed theology. So he's one of the thought leaders in that movement. And he said that he believes second Timothy to be accurate, like where

he still thinks that his Paul's letter to Timothy saying that women should be quiet in church and not lead a church, he says that he believes that's accurate. He said he can no longer teach it in this church because it's not socially acceptable. And he is not going to force certain businesses or anything like that to not have women's CEOs not to be involved in it because the time period had changed what was going on when he wrote that letter to Timothy was very very different because the time period that people could live was 30 32 years so the women were staying at home having nothing but kids while the men were doing whatever updates um so billy you were just saying how like society has become less

religious. The boomers also had anxiety, but it's thought of as being like a young person's disorder. Right. Right. Like this generation. So like, but, but the boomers, they, they would, they could pray like go home and I'm going to pray for a raise and a pension. Then they go. I have a good story about that. It made things a little bit easier. My one of the interviews I did was with a guy who was on Iwojima and he was in the battle of Iwojima. And during our interview, I asked him, I was like, do you think that you suffered PTSD? Because it's not talked about a lot about from World War II veterans. And he said, no, I wouldn't think that I have PTSD.

I mean, I haven't had a solid night's sleep in over 70 years, but I don't think I have PTSD. They just didn't realize it. It was called something else. Didn't have a name. Yeah. All right. Well, before we get going, I think that we've covered a lot of ground today. We have to stop at some point.

It's been like two and a half hours. So we're going to call it. This is a fun episode. I want to hear what you guys. think as always just tell us that we're handsome uh and then you can give us whatever constructive criticism that you would like but erin you need to guess on uh big t's underwear right now what color underwear is you wear i think i think he went i think he would regular gray today regular gray so let's see it's not regular gray it's a very it's a festive gray it's a navy

gray it's a navy blue and gray let me see let me see is it yeah that's gray that's just a hundred percent gray you're just wearing gray I mean it's it's a black baby I'm back I think area is like 500 I think you're batting 500 on guessing well one day you'll just be wearing I think that's the third one you'll be wearing bright orange under yeah that's three out of five right

it's three to five right so three for seven that's incredible batting average Hall of Fame Hall of Fame numbers all right well thank you guys we love you all right send us off Aaron Aaron's going to play us out with a song about hell on the ukulele. I don't know.