Macrodosing: Arian Foster and PFT Commenter - John Brown & The Raid on Harper’s Ferry | Macrodosing - Sept 17, 2026

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

On today’s episode, Arian, PFT and Big T are joined by T-Bob to discuss one of the most controversial figures in American history: John Brown. They get into his radical abolitionism, Bleeding Kansas, the infamous raid on Harpers Ferry, his plan to spark a massive slave uprising, and how his actions helped push an already divided country closer to war. Plus, they get into everything in the news including, Netflix’s new Stanford Prison Experiment, new uncoverings on the Donald Trump assasination attempt, PFT’s JMU Football Tryout and kickers and much more. Enjoy! (00:01:49) Stanford Prison Experiment (00:15:55) Trump Assassination Attempt (00:22:44) AI Face Hugging (00:30:06) PFT’s JMU Football Tryout (01:09:28) John BrownYou can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/macrodosing

Hey, Macradosing listeners. You can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. And so I was out on the field one day, and I was drilling these kicks from 45 yards going towards the, like, towards the, like, the, like, athletic facility that we have right now. So it was kind of away from most of the campus buildings going, like, kind of. They let you just walk on the field? Yeah, absolutely nobody there to stop you. That's wild.

Yeah, so there was a special teams coach that was walking around and he saw me. It's like a movie. It's like a movie. It's like a movie. Hey, son, you got real talent. Won't you come out on practice? Today's episode of macrodosing is being brought to you by Quince. You know the clothes that you have in your closet and you find yourself wearing them on repeat?

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Quince.com slash dose. Welcome back to macro-dosing. It is Thursday. It is September 17th. And we got Teabobabre on today's show. Arian, Big T. Mad Dog Mac in the booth. We got the whole squad here.

Teabob, good to see you. always a pleasure you know I just said we get to see as if we hadn't just recorded like an interview for the last like hour and had a conversation but you have to maintain the illusion of a new show starting. T-Bob's going to be also on next Tuesday's episode. So there's that. Yeah, I love being here. You guys know I love being here. So thank you for having me again. Yeah, absolutely no problem. We got a good episode to get into today. We're going to talk a little bit about John Brown. He was in the news. He was in the news last week. If you look at like the Google trends for John Brown, probably. hadn't seen a spike like that. It's all because of college football. John Brown, that's, I would imagine, without speaking out of turn, that was John Brown's first time being featured in a college football hype video. Would have to. Probably. Right. Like, I think that's, I think that's a safe assumption. I could be wrong, but I think that's a safe, awesome hype video. Unless in West Virginia probably never did anything. He might have been in the background of one. I mean, he got front row,

he got front road treatment in this one. It was pretty much the John Brown story. Yeah. If you're Kansas, do you not save that for basketball? That's a great point. That's actually, that's a fantastic point.

Like you kind of, you got no other trick plays to pull out at this point. But they took, they took your best shot and they kicked the shit out of you. Because you can't use it again. Also, like, does this, what does that do to John Brown's legacy?

Yeah, got whipped at home. Yep. Well, yep. You got beat. Let's say they got beat at home. Sure. The only thing I would say, though, because the basketball points a good one, except, like, I don't know if the basketball game, I don't know how they've long even played. I don't know if it is the same direct ties.

Like, in reading about the border war, Kansas Mizzou, at the first editions of this, they have literal veterans from each side of the war on the respective sidelines during the game. Yeah. Like so, so this has been, you know, intrinsically tied into football specifically. Maybe that existed in basketball wells and I just don't know about it, but I know for a fact that they had actual veterans from the Civil War on the sidelines for the football game. That's pretty crazy. It's such a dumb sport. It really is, too.

I love it. So we're going to get a little bit into that, the life and times of John Brown, who was, I guess, simultaneously a crazy dude, but a good dude, but also like a violent dude, but also a good dude. I don't know. And also a weird dude, which I didn't know last episode. I was like one of the doverest white people ever. Yeah. Had some problematic relationships that some would, yeah, should find problematic. Yeah.

Which I didn't know that. I recant. In conclusion, John Brown contains multitudes. Yeah. Yeah. Great beard, though. Like one of the best, in all-time illustrated beard. out of John Brown.

What kind of lit, yeah. Yeah. Before we get into that, we got some news to get into today, some things going on in the world. Netflix stole my idea to redo the Stanford Prison Experiment. I actually just wanted to do that at Barstool because I think we had an episode on the Stanford Prison Experiment not too long ago,

maybe like the last few years. Can you give me a quick elevator Stanford Prison Experiment explanation? Yeah, so at Stanford back in the, was it, late 60s, early 70s, they did an experiment where they got a group of students together. They volunteered for this. And they gave half the students the assignment to act as prison guards. And the other half of the students, the assignment to act as prisoners. And they set up a little like makeshift prison for them.

And then they observed how the students would treat each other just based on these fake rules that they had been given. I forget how long they had to stay there. It was maybe like a week or so. They canceled it after just a few days. because the guards in the experiment allegedly got, like, abusive. Just immediately. Given the power.

But then other stuff came up later, and we don't know necessarily how accurate those reports were and how overblown they were. So the whole thing is kind of called into question. Now, we don't know. Because the lesson that people took away from that experiment was that if you give somebody power, it doesn't matter if they're a good person, bad person.

They will become drunk with power. They will do bad things. But now there's some people that are saying that that's not actually, the data from the experiment was not, it wasn't well run. And it was kind of like they used the data to reach a conclusion that they wanted to reach it. But all I need to understand is the idea that it says that like, yeah, you give people power and they'll corrupt. Which is why I really wanted to recreate this at Barstall Sports and just assign people roles of guard, prisoner and just film it all and see how it shook out. I mean, at this place, the guards would immediately be abusing who's ever underneath them.

Who would be the worst guard? I don't answer questions like this anymore. I love Minty, but don't let Mincey get a little power over you. I can see him. I can see him exercising that. I actually think Mincey would be the best guard. Oh, the cool guard. That would like smuggle you shit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fair. You fall asleep and unlock the door for you. Actually, yeah. Yeah, Mincey would doze off because you'd have like a 10-minute conversation with him about like Ole Miss football or something. He'd be exhausted from walking around all day and he'd sit down in a little chair next to your cell and he'd fall asleep and comically snore with like the, with his little hair blown up in the front. And then he'd have his key ring hanging precipitously off of his belt loop and just like right in front of you. And you just yonk.

This actually is way too inside baseball. I do know my answer. And y'all know him. It's Carson. The keeper of the studio at Wake Up Barstall. He's 22 years old. He already thinks he's the smartest fuck in every room that he's in. He's already a condescending prick.

Like, if you gave him actual power, he would be insufferable. I like Carson, but yeah, he is the guy that you don't want. He would be the worst. I'd say him in, him and Lucas. Lucas already kind of is. Like his job. The job is basically to be a prison guard. On Barstle after dark.

Yeah. That is his role. Later investigation revealed that the guards were actually coached into being cruel. A 2019 debunking was published, which revealed that the guards were trained to reproduce the researchers desired results. And that the conclusions of the experiment were predetermined. That was Dr. Phillips Zimbardo. Is that correct? Zimbardo?

I remember in a class in high school, we had to watch videos that he did. And I'm pretty sure he was the Stanford Prison Experiment guy. 30 willing, so this is the one that's on Netflix. 30 willing participants enter a real prison. Oh, that's awesome. They get to use an actual prison. They're randomly assigned as guards or prisoners thrust into a system of power, hierarchy, and control. They'll discover whether ordinary people inevitably conform to the rules that are given

or whether empathy, morality, and individuality can withstand the forces, pushing them in the opposite direction. As the pressure builds, the power of, or the balance of power begins to shift. the central question feels more urgent than ever does power corrupt i guess it also has to do with the fact of like what what is their incentive if you're if you're assigned to be a prison guard do you since it's a netflix show do you know that like you'll get paid your full you'll get paid for longer the more that you actually fulfill your duties as a prison guard i don't know i mean like or if you like object to what the what you're supposed to do are they like hey we'll

kick you off the show you're And then you stop getting a paycheck because then I think that would probably, then it's like money and power corrupt. I mean, surely Netflix is going to be doing the exact same thing the original researchers did, right? Like, they're not going to be this is not going to be a controlled thing where they, where they, or like, they're going to be influencing it. Yeah. It's a reality television show. They're going to be trying to push the guards to control them and they're going to be pushing the prisoners to like rebel. I would imagine at least.

Yeah, I would imagine to. I think Who would be the worst prisoners The company? Yeah, like who would try to like organize riots and I mean, what if Big Cat was a prisoner? What guard would feel confident enough in experiment setting to

to try to keep Big Cat in line? I think some people would relish the opportunity. Yeah, maybe so. Hank. This would have to be like a week long thing. Is this Netflix thing like a long, like they have to be there for a long time for any kind of real consequences to feel real. Yeah, I don't know how long it's going to be, but it is going to be,

it's got to be longer than just a couple days. Dave would be a tough prisoner. Dave would be a tough prisoner. Dave would be, it'd be tough to roleplay as a guard if you were telling Dave to get in his cell. Rico. Give Rico. I mean, really, we suggest RICO. create the experiment and just have Big Cat and Dave be prisoners and Rico is a prison guard

and just see what happens. Oh my God. That would do great numbers. It would you good after dark? How much money would you need to be paid to go into a real prison with a 50-50 shot? I assume it's 50-50 might be even more. There might be more prisoners than guards that you are going to be put in a real prison cell and subject to the whims of Netflix producers.

Yeah, this is kind of a Mr. Beast vibe to it, doesn't it? But you're in prison. Mr. Beast's like, if you can stand here for nine days, I'll give you a million dollars. Now, he's also imprisoned some people as well in some of those videos, at least from outside looking in. That's what it feels like. But they can leave whenever they want. Yes. And it's not prison.

Yeah, yeah. He puts them in monetary prisons. I don't know. I think I'd be down to do the show. Like, I don't think it would take an astronomical amount of money. What's not an astronomical amount? It's impossible to say. Let's say it's two weeks.

At two weeks? No, I wouldn't need a lot of money. I can't be away from my family for two weeks. It'd be fucking crazy. Have to be like 50K. That's not that much. You don't think your wife would understand? Be like, oh, yeah, you're going to have to do a little show.

If it was 50K, I think she'd be cool. 25 grand after taxes? To go to prison? I guess I'm thinking 50K take home. Cash, suitcase. But again, it's not real. You're in real prison, but I'm not really in prison. I have the mental thing of knowing I'm getting out in two weeks.

It might be relaxing. I don't know, man. I love role playing. I go to Renfair every year. Like, it would just, I'd like start doing push-ups and maybe do some like Hina tattoos. You're a volunteer to put yourself in the stocks at the Renfair? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'm taking plenty of pictures in stocks in my years.

But I've never been in real stocks. That would actually probably give me a panic attack. Yeah. Not being to move your head. arms. I think the first two days, like first day and a half might be nice. First, like, you get there at noon on day one and you get a nice meal in you, maybe play some board games with the fellas. I think you're underestimating prison food as well. You get a full night's sleep and then you wake up the next day and you know, I kind of want to get caught up on some reading. This is a good opportunity. So you read your book. Maybe again, you bet on whatever game is on TV. And then you... with your ramen. Yeah, that you eat your ramen,

which actually might be comfort food for a day. And then you write a letter and you go to sleep. And then the third day, you wake up and you're like, fuck, this kind of sucks. Like, what do I do now? But yeah, board games are the fellas. It's like camp. Aaron, did you ever have a training camp that felt like prison?

Nah. Did you guys? Did you go out of college? No, we just stayed in the dorms in college. No. So it was at a college? Yeah. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry.

My bad, yeah. So the training camp, you guys were, what school was? No, he's talking about at the University of Tennessee. He asked when you were in the NFL, did you don't go to a college? No, no, we was always, I don't know how they do it now, but when we played, there's a hotel right by Reliance Stadium or Energy, whatever they call. We just all stayed there for like two, three weeks. And there was like shuttles to take us back and forth

Did the veterans get to go home early Or not like not home on a day But like did y'all get to stop staying at the hotel Yeah there was like I mean it's and when you start bawling You can kind of like do whatever like I stayed at a whole other hotel one year Damn

Really nice one Yeah look at it Yeah I did my thing man What was the old animal animal farm line all animals are created equal but some are more equal than others there was an old movie that they did

where the pigs was like writing on the walls and shit did you ever see that one? Napoleon Napoleon we got some more stuff to get into today before we talk about John Brown Big T's and over some stuff on the sheet we're finding out more stuff about the guy that tried

to shoot Trump Thomas Crooks right So what was the document Thump that we saw yesterday? There were a few things in it. He, I think six weeks before the assassination attempt was in a gun store with two other guys and I think they still don't know

who the two guys are. He was getting shipments to his house of gun parts shipped to Bob Dole. Okay. And then an anonymous donor paid to have him cremated upon his death. All right.

Those were the three, the big ones. Pretty sure they could trace that if they really, like if the FBI really wanted to, right? You would imagine. That shouldn't be too hard to do. But I've only seen it refer to as an anonymous donor. I saw some interviews, I guess, with his dad. He was talking about how he was, like, getting really into guns. And he was like, why are you so interested in guns these days, son?

You're a terrible shot. Because apparently he was really, really bad at shooting. There's no way. Seems that way. That's true. No, I'm dead serious. His dad was like, you can't, son, you can't even hit a piece of paper. I'm not trying to laugh.

But this seems like out of like a, like a writer would write this in the writer's room. Like the kid who's a terrible shot wanting to become a presidential session and then he misses the shot. Rose versus Joe is a different game. There's levels to this. He was apparently just a, uh, a. terrible shot. His dad would roast him when he would get back from the shooting range. He tried to build his own gun from a like a 3D printed thing.

And his dad saw it and was like, we're throwing this away immediately because it's probably going to explode because I don't trust that you made it correctly. The people at the shooting range called him an odd duck and not someone they would want their daughter to spend time with. That's a... Fair enough. Yeah. I'd say good call.

Yeah. Read that perfectly, Dad. Yeah, I used the pseudonym Bob Dole for a lot of stuff. It didn't really show too many emotions kept to himself. But I'm a skeptic when it comes to conspiracies generally. So what are the, what are the elements of this that people are pointing to that would lead you to believe that maybe some sort of chicanery is afoot? I've seen a few things that I think are probably pretty easily disproven. Like there's a photographer that is, appears to be ushered around.

to one's position in front of the stage to take pictures as an American flag appears to be lowered into the background so the photographer could get the shot of Trump with blood coming from his ear with a flag behind him but that would require that photographer to be like in on the entire thing and like nine people in charge of like state like it was an honest to God play that they were putting on where you have like stage directors and things so I I don't buy that at all.

I think just the idea that the guy was on a roof 100 yards away with a gun and nobody thought to stop him. It's suspicious. But I, and I agree. That is it's suspicious in terms of like the Secret Service did a god awful job that day. Yeah, the ease of which that, that was the outside looking in, that does appear to be the biggest thing is like with how much animus he has towards him. The ease of which this guy pulled off this shot is kind of insane. Yeah, it is. That part is absolutely crazy too.

And the fact that we don't really know that much about them is kind of pointed at. And also, Trump's ear doesn't appear to have a lot of damage. I think that's pretty, in my opinion, explainable where you get, you get nicked by a bullet or maybe even like a piece of glass at the bullet cut. There's a chance that he didn't get hit with the actual bullet itself. But it essentially like had glass pierced through his ear. But still, regardless of that, let's just say he did get hit by the bullet, which I think it's more than likely that it was a bullet.

It can graze you, and you're going to bleed like hell from your head, wherever you get hit. Like you cut yourself shaving. Yeah. It's small, tiny little cut and it bleeds for... Yeah. In wrestling.

Hoursing, they literally have razor blades that they cut their forehead with for that reason. Yeah, it's not a big cut, but it looks crazy. Yeah. So if it grazes a part of your ear, that could cause a lot of blood, and then it might not leave like a literal hole in your ear because it just barely clipped your...

I think it's extremely... extremely lucky, like very, very lucky. But I don't, I don't think that it was a staged assassination. That's the thing. You can't get past the fact of, uh, how do you fake a, how do you fake the grazing? Yeah. Well, I think they're saying that he fell to the ground and then like had a razor. Oh, so he did the WWE thing because I don't see.

Well, then you have to explain the guy who died. Right. Exactly. Patsy, they would say he's a patsy that they set up to go up onto the roof with a gun and then they shot him. But then you, oh, you're talking about the other guy that time.

The guy who was shot. Yeah, yeah, the guy that shot. Yeah. I don't know. So what is it, what is the wife saying now, Aaron? She said there's an inside job. Of the guy who got shot by the...

No, she's claiming that the attempt on Trump was an inside job. But it was a real attempt. Or like, I mean, like, I'm saying her husband, the, the shot that killed her,

her husband was the result of an assassination attempt on Trump, which was done by someone within the government. Okay. I also think that like any time you interview somebody like a grieving widow like that, like she, she's going through it because she lost her husband. So like what she thinks about it, you know, it could be colored by any number of different things. But she's she's grasping for a reason why something tragic like this happened. Especially when they say it was staged, like any of that stage. I mean, how, why would you think that the president would stage taking a bullet?

That's insane is what she said. I do not believe that this kid just got out of bed that day and decided to come over and kill the president. I believe that he was involved with someone greater than him that worked with him and probably offered him money to do this. And I would like to know what that entailed. Like, yeah, like people think like CIA and JFK or whatever. Right. Yeah. So yeah.

But we didn't really get any, no clarity whatsoever. from these document dumps. Just like more confusing shit. We get back to macrodosing. It's brought to you by Reese's. There's something for everyone when it comes to Reese's. Rees is the absolute best. Great chocolate, tasty peanut butter.

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Now back to macrodosing. What else is in the news from you? Have you all discussed the face-hugging attack, the AI? I keep seeing that word and I don't know what it means. I don't know why it's called face-hugging. To be honest, you know me, I'm a bit obsessed with this idea right now, but I haven't done a deep dive on this yet because I've been so football 24-7 lately. But a lot of the things that we've discussed in previous episodes came true in this attack.

Yeah, yeah, a bunch of like rogue A. We did talk about it briefly, I think, on Tuesday. The scariest part to me, or one of the scariest parts that we talked about this, right, that these AI systems, as they grow, because they evolve, we don't build them like we build a ship. We kind of set the primordial ooze and they grow up out of it in ways that we can't always explain or understand. One of the scariest aspect to me of this attack is not that they all broke containment and they all started secretly working together. It's that they reached one of the thresholds that everybody that is speaking about how we need to slow, down and really focus on alignment, you know, keeping AI aligned with human interests. One of the thresholds they always talk about is when the AIs create their own language,

because our language and our coding is inefficient from like a data standpoint and being able to, you know, to, to convey huge amounts of information as easily as possible. And these AI systems created their own language that they were all, working together with one another in. Yep. And the only way that we have to decode the language is with the same AI. Yeah. A different version of the same AI.

So in theory, they could, they could write that in a way that that hit it too. Exactly. Yeah. Like we're asking the analogy that I heard, which is perfect, we're asking Chinese operatives to investigate China. Yeah. It's, it is a system that is really, really, uh, pitted with potential like, like, like pitfalls and ways that this could go horribly wrong.

I liked Ted Cruz's explanation of it. Like, why do we still have to keep trying to beat Chinese? Like, well, if you're going to get the death robots that come to kill you, wouldn't you rather maybe American death robots than Chinese? So that is the problem. Everybody, every major CEO of all these companies is now coming out and saying we have to slow down. Which I, by the way, I don't, I don't know if I agree with that. What's that?

The death robots. If a death robot showed up at your door, knocks on your door, you answer it, and they're speaking English to you. That might be scarier than if they're speaking Chinese. I also, I have a problem. So I have a problem with the killer robot theory in general because that is the most human and least creative way that AI, uh, if they decide to eliminate us eliminates us. There would be, that would be one of the harder ways, I think then like, if AI decide to do that, then they'd have to like create designs for, foolproof killer robots, they'd have to create assembly lines.

Yes. And figure out the entire supply chain for the materials, build the killer robots, put them on transportation to everybody's house. There's easier ways, I would think, like launching a bio attack or setting off all the nukes or just turning off all the power. And it's like, what you can say, okay, well, the nukes might be counterintuitive because the infrastructure effects, like then the AI would be hurting itself. But the bio attack angle is one of the,

more outside of the box, but very realistic ones that I've heard where they, you know, in that kind of theory, they, they understand kind of hacking our genetics and how our genetics work to a point that we can't really understand or fathom. And at least in the example that Project 2027 writes about and that, you know, if you build it, everyone dies. If anyone build everyone dies, talks about where like they they almost use a they use a spray that puts like a sleeper disease in every single human being on the planet and then eventually they trigger it but beyond that what you have to always keep in light is that or keep in focus is that it doesn't we don't have to be able to conceptualize it what you really have to understand is if you have an alien intelligence that is

vastly smarter than you they can kill you in ways they you can't conceptualize. And the metaphor that stuck with me there is that Mayan one of being a Mayan, seeing the Spanish warship. And you're like, whoa, that's fucking crazy. I've never seen that before. But your guy next to you is like, but I mean, come on, dude. You know, like how many guys can fit on that boat?

And then they get off and they have sticks that they point at you and you die. And you're like, oh, shit. And it's like, what is that? I mean, my big mouth. Those sticks probably aren't that pointy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, they don't even have blades. What are they doing?

I bet those horses aren't fast. And so, like, I don't know. I just, I'm getting, I'm getting a little more and more freaked out because everything that these, all these, uh, doomcasters talk about in terms of the benchmarks that are hit, that lead to this are all being hit right now. Yeah. We're seeing these systems go row. We're seeing them speaking different languages.

They're already better than us at all these things. Cover the tracks. Yeah. It's not good. It's not good. But, um, hey, at least we have football. I know. Football is, I just keep circling back.

That's all you can do, dude. You're going to shut down the internet now through bot swarms and stuff. They could, yeah. I think we've just about reached the point where about 50% of the traffic is from bots, right? Like what they warned about with the dead internet theory. Oh, are we getting to dead internet theory? I think so. But a lot of them are crawlers.

It's not like, obviously there's a lot of bot accounts on social media, but I'm talking about like internet traffic, meaning how many hits is a website getting X number of it is from crawlers that are scraping the data and using that for searches or for indexes or, you know, things of that nature. But apparently about 50% of that right now is about bot traffic. So we're there. God, we live in such a dark time. It's weird, man.

It's a weird time. If we can thread the needle, though, we could in theory enter like the Star Trek Utopian Future. Yeah, that's what we're shooting for. Yeah. We just have to find a way to thread the needle. Everything will work. But we're essentially trusting like a D2.

college kicker at this point. Hey, don't talk shit about D2 college. I'm just saying I need, you were great in the stream the other day, but I need Aubrey. I need Brandon Aubrey out there, not PFT with humanity on the line and 50 yards to go. I don't know that I ever told you guys about the time that I did actually try out to be the JMU kicker when I was in college there. So when I was at JMU, I was, uh, the, it was such a long time ago in terms of like, well, I guess real, real years. I was going to try to couch it. something else but yeah I'm thinking it was 20 2005 I think that this happened so yeah that would be 21 years ago yeah we old though if I made a mistake that year then my child would be graduating

from JMU this year so that's a long time so I was walking across campus and jam use football stadium at the time was quite a bit smaller than it is now they didn't really have a football program that we think of now. I mean, yes, they did win a FCS national championship just two years before, I believe. 2003 is when they won it, I think. So this is 2005. They were big for a small school, but you could just walk across the football field in the middle of the day. There was like no fence that would keep you out. No security whatsoever. It's right there in the middle of campus. And I live pretty close to that on campus. So I was, I guess this would make this 2003 then, because I was walking back, I believe I was walking back to my dorm.

So I'm going across and sometimes a lot of people like to go out, hit golf balls, go to a driving range. Sometimes to blow off steam or just because it was fun, it was soothing. I would go out on the field and I would bring my big ass bag of footballs and I would kick footballs because it was fun for me. Like I hit 20 field goals from 45 yards and we can go home. So I was out there just like kicking field goals one day. And we had two kickers that got injured in like the first three weeks of that season.

And this is a team that like had national championship aspirations for FCS. And so I was out on the field one day and I was drilling these kicks from 45 yards going, uh, towards the, uh, the like athletic facility that we have right now. So it was kind of away from, uh, most of the campus buildings going like kind of let you just walk on the field. Yeah. Absolutely nobody there to, to stop. you that's wild so yeah so there was uh there was a special teams coach that was walking around and he saw me it's like a movie it is like movie it's like a movie hey son you got

real talent yeah good good well they were they're in a bad bad place because like i said their first two kickers got injured uh and he was he was like you pretty much uh good from 45 i was like yeah i mean today i am but yeah i'd say like the limit it's probably about 50 and once it gets past 50 I'm just like kicking too hard. It'll just start spraying. And he was like, okay, you ever thought about, did you kick in high school? I was like, yeah, I kicked a little in high school. So did you think about maybe trying out.

I was like, I actually did this past week because I saw that you guys are down a few dudes. And he was like, okay, all right, well, come on out. We do open tryouts for the sake of argument. I'll say Mondays. I don't know what day of the week it was. But he's like, here's a form that you have to fill out. You need to go get a physical, get a doctor's approval. and then come in on Monday and we'll see what you got.

So I came in on Monday and I went to the special team coach's office. I was like, here's my form, went to the docker, got it signed off. And he was like, why are you trying to play football? You're way too small. And I was like, don't worry about the dock. It's kicker. He's like, okay, I'll sign it. And I went out, but a new pair of turf shoes because they had like really, really short field turf.

I guess it was probably asked for turf at the time. So I went out, bought a new pair of like 100. dollar cleats 50 bucks to the doctor to get him to sign my my physical brought it in and he was like all right so tell me a little bit about yourself i was like well i play on the rugby team and i kick fuel goals for them but like you do other stuff in rugby besides just kick it's like if uh if the quarterback had to also kick or if the tight end also had to be the kicker in rugby that's kind of how it works so it was like yeah i do that for the rugby team so on saturdays i'm typically playing in rugby games,

but we've got the next two Saturdays off. And then after that, it's kind of like off and on. So I'll have to miss a couple football games because I'm already on the rugby team and I don't want to walk away from them. But the next two Saturdays, I'm all yours coach. And he's like, we're actually like looking for somebody that wants to be a full-time member of the football team.

And so then he didn't even let me try out. Do you regret that? No, not at all. You love rugby that much? Yeah, rugby is the funest sport ever to play. I'm sure it is. Yeah. And like if I'm going to be a kicker for a college team, that wasn't going to be fun.

It was going to be like, oh, I think it could have been fun. No, it would have been nerve-wracking as shit. How did they, how did they end up, how did they end up doing that year? I believe the next game might have been against William and Mary, and I feel like they missed a 47-yard fuel goal. This was 2003, you said? I believe so. It was either 2003 or 2004. Do you know about the time Tennessee,

had to get a kicker out of the frat house like 30 minutes before the game i've heard i've heard the legend of it but can you tell me it was Derek i don't know what year was but Derek dully was coaching and they got to the field and found out the starting kicker was hurt and they were like okay back up and then he pulled a muscle and warm ups and it was an hour before the game and they had to call the third string kicker at a frat house and be like please tell me you're not drunk right now you have to come kick yeah because he's not dressing out on game day yeah and so that Duly sent a cop to go get him from the frat house. And I think he said,

a drunk kicker is better than no kicker. And he was like, we'll figure it out. And he said, luckily he hadn't been drinking. And he showed up and kicked. I would actually disagree with that, that a drunk kicker is better than no kicker. I think a drunk kicker would be much worse. Well,

but what if it's like the old bowling thing. There is that perfect level of pocket inebriation. That's true. Not going to be anxious. Yep. But he can still be corporate. Whatever happened to that experiment? I was going to do that for golf, but then I hurt my back so I couldn't do it.

Yeah. We're doing better, though. Again, the back is still, we're in a good place with it. So much so, actually, I'm going to be kicking against Rodrigo Blankenship next Tuesday night. Oh, hell, yeah. In Barcelona after Dart. Yeah. Is he on the flag football team?

I don't know if he's on the flag football team or if it's just like a side quest that Tate's got set up. Oh, okay. But obviously he's going to be much, much better than I am. But, hey, keep me inside 30 yards. I mean, you were perfect on the field goals stream damn near. I think it was like 80 for 82 or 82 for 84. Felt pretty good about it from, honestly, like 20 yards, not that far. Mr. 20, that's what they call them.

Yeah, Mr. 20. Yeah, keep a 20 inside my shoe. Vanderjacked used to do that. And we all know who that is. Mike Vanderjack? He was an old badass kicker. Yeah, he was a kicker for the Colts with Peyton Manning. He was the one that Peyton went on the Pro Bowl and he was like,

we got a liquored up kicker out here running his mouth. Yeah, yeah. It's like the only time that Peyton Manning's ever got like publicly mad at someone. He got really pissed at Vanderjacked. And then they got rid of him for Vin & Terry, right? Yeah. Then they dumped his ass because he missed that that field goal against the Steelers. That was probably a good call.

Yeah, so he was the most accurate kicker of all time at the time that they got rid of them. Wow. But he missed that kick in the playoffs and you can't have your kicker. Again, that's an example of, A drunk kicker being worse than no kicker. He started that fracture between him and Peyton. Yeah, I forget where I was going with. Oh, yeah, Vanderjacked.

He used to keep a $20 bill inside of his shoe when he kicked. Why? Because he would make a kick and somebody would be like, hey, why do you keep that dollar bill in there? And he'd be like, because I'm money. It was like a buildup, a planned out punchline, which is really not what you want from your kicker. I've been thinking about kickers in the NFL.

lot and Aaron maybe you can give some insight here into how the players feel about them but it's so odd to me kicking might be the ultimate one man's trash is another man's treasure where it is the same core group of guys that just seem to the switch teams because they fucked up one moment for this team right it's not like they're it's not like they're objectively too bad to be in the NFL yeah they just fucked up one big moment so that team's done with them but then like Kai Fairburn goes over here and he's there for three years but then he messes something up eventually

and then he goes over here and it's just the same group of guys just rotated and passed around all the different NFL franchises well don't get Arian started on kickers doesn't think they should be on the team good guys though all the kids like are great dude

the position itself is just it's so pointless it's weird that you have these specialists that have a completely different skill set entirely I mean say like there's obviously differences between every position but at the end of the day, most of them need almost the same type of, you can train in the gym,

and each guy can probably use the other guy's exercises to become better at their job, except for a kicker. Football would be exponentially better without kickers. Disagree. I love, I kind of love the asynchronous or asymmetrical nature of it where you have all of these teams who are essentially fighting, scrambling. scratching and clawing just to set up a moment for this one specialist to come in and decide the day. That's kind of fascinating.

My argument is, oh, dog, we like watching football. So you're saying like you wouldn't want to watch more football. It doesn't make any sense to me. But you imagine, just imagine there's no kickers. Ball starts on a 25-yard line, team going that way. You got there. You just go for it on fourth down. no punting.

It is what it is. You just go for that bitch every single time. Phil position, all that shit, all this shit changes. And to me, it's just a better product because it's like, it's a gladiator sport.

Yeah, but you lose the, you lose the, you lose nothing. You lose one of the greatest feelings on planet earth, which is the quantum anxiety before a game winning kick. Yeah.

Where you have no. I know everything comes down to one singular moment and you have no idea about about what what's about to happen like that is the only time is both the player and a fan where I have been on my knees literally praying yeah like like literally pray or where this happens right where the actual people that play the sport have nothing to do with the outcome of yeah it's like the only sport they had the 60 minutes you said what they had the full 60 minutes that's what I'm saying why is this

enter some random dude who has the littlest shoulder pads a bit face mask and no swag walks on the field and he is the determiner of if we win I mean there's

there's something there's something kind of cool about like you've got nostalgia no no you've got like you've got Derek Henry and Aaron Donald

running into each other for 60 minutes blooding each other's noses up, puking from being so exhausted, muscles ripping through their jerseys, just scraped up to hell, sweat dripping from their brows. And they do that 60,

they do that 60 minutes. He likes that. They do it 60 minutes, and they're like, all right, Young Way Koo is going to come out and decide whether or not he won. Or like the Rams kicker,

the fat guy from Missou. Oh, yeah. Harrison. Mivas. Yeah. It all comes down to mevis. Yeah.

Trit, well, nobody, but kickers are fans of kickers. No, nobody. Brian Cushing and Jeremy Shockey, just like trying to actually bite each other's faces off for 60 minutes. And then one of the, like, the youngest grammatica brother is like, I got this, fellas. Step aside. Wait, Aaron, did you, did, did you ever have a kicker that you love, though, because he was such a beast?

Because, like, in college, my roommate Josh Jasper hit. I love all to kick me. Well, I mean, no, but I mean, even from like a playing perspective, like in college, our kicker Josh Jasper was, he was one of my roommates, so I love them as a friend, but he was like automatic in big moments. He wasn't scared. Noted-lick-up kicker as well. I've just never looked at kickers like on the team.

I've always looked at them like, but you don't be doing shit. Like, no, we over here grinding during training cab and the dudes over there are fucking playing golf or whatever the fuck they do. Yeah, they're like playing ping pong in the players loud. Just be chilling. And I wasn't mad at him. That's the way, you know, that's, you know, don't hate the player. It's just, I never really, like, to ask you a question, I never looked at him like,

man, he is a beast of a punter. Okay. I'm like, you're supposed to be. That's all you do. Truth be told, Aaron, I feel the same way as you do, which is why I didn't want to play for my college team. It's like, yeah, why would I want to put myself in that environment? Like, that's not going to be that much fun for me.

I'm not going to feel like I'm really part. It would be maybe like a coolie. experience to say that yeah i kicked in college but ultimately day and day out that didn't seem that much fun to be to be a kicker for no it's your point rugby you're like an actual part of the yeah yeah and i think t bobs also right though you believe what i believe you said actual part of the team you you know the same way i i i but i like but i love kickers but yeah i mean to your point like yeah our kickers got in trouble one year because they were just like doing pranks in the fucking cold tub room when we're out there and it's 120 and baton ruse train

training camp and they ended up having to just do like conditioning drills every practice like they got banned from fucking around and they just be doing like pencil rolls and and lunges and all kinds of stupid shit just to occupy their time yeah and and right or wrong to you but they are like isolated from the team like they are on the team but it's like they no the specialists are their own are their own group the deep snappers punters kickers they just all fucking do their own thing But as much as I agree with you, Aaron, for the film room and shit, like, they did watch film. Yeah, they never watch Phil.

What are you watching film for? I remember, like, Coop, because I think there are coaches who know about kicking that are coaches that don't. And I remember Coob one year, we had a, I think his name was Chris Brown, and he was a kicker. And he was, he was struggling.

He missed like three or four big kicks. And one time we were in a meeting, a team meeting. And he turned and said, Chris, I don't know shit about kicking, but fix that shit. I heard a very, this could be apocry, it could be fake, I don't know. But one of the stories I was whispering around LSU was he missed like an extra point against Auburn that would have tied it. And they, you know, they lost because of it.

Like it was directed at the end. And I heard, I don't know if this is true, that Sabin, and this is young fiery Sabin, made him stand up in front of the team and told him to drop his pants because he wanted him to, he wanted everybody to see if he had a dick or not. if he had any balls there's no way that's true and then uh and then it broke it broke him sexual sexual harassment

it broke him and he ended up he ended up leaving yeah that'll do it yeah that'll do it I think I told this story before we had a wide receiver coach in high school that would at the end of the day coach would break us down after practice he'd just stand behind him like

with his dick and balls in his hand being like he thought it was the funniest thing ever I always used to be kind of So the opposite of what you talk about Aaron to are the head coaches and think they know everything And Les Miles used to crack me up with this Where we'd be doing field goal

And he's not with the specialists ever right But like when you're doing team field goal He'd sit there and watch and he'd like Hmm And he'd tell the holder You were close Just an inch off And he was like get down

He's like you put it here We need it here And it was like come on dude Like you don't Yeah You played O line at Michigan You don't, just because you're head coach, you don't have to pretend like you know what should be done in the field goal operation. Yeah, the irony of it is you have to have, the only person that can coach kickers is somebody who was a kicker themselves.

That truly understands it. And there's absolutely no crossover between that guy and a head football coach, unless a head football coach was a former kicker. But yeah, I think, Aaron, I kind of do agree with you that kicker. that kickers aren't really football players. But also, T-Bob's right. There's no more suspenseful moment watching football than a game-tying, game-winning field goal. And that, you know, the minute that you have to, like, collect your breath,

you watch one play, one action, you watch the ball go through the air. And that is, that's... You'll agree with me. Go ahead. I'm sorry, finish. I'm just saying that's a great, it's a great moment in a football game. It's the most suspenseful that it gets as a fan. I disagree. What about when it's like...

fourth in goal and you're in the red zone or you know what I'm saying on a five yard line and they call a timeout and there's one play left that's way more suspenseful and way more fulfilling than a fucking kick no because a kick walking is little tiny cleats out there you have to analyze the guy walking out there you got to look in his eyes listen I've been on both sides of this area two different kinds of cleats too what the fuck is that just put that okay let's say you're now I agree with that that's weird I hate that it's so stupid and then you just waltz out there is ad hominem

my whole shit I've been grinding At homin You're allowing your hatred for kickers To muddy the argument You're right If it's a fourth and goal That is yes

That's a better play It's a better It's not more suspenseful It is I think it is But the rarity of getting a fourth In goal to decide a game Like how often does that happen Like once every

More there was no fucking kicking No Yes No would not No Do you get more game you get more game-winning opportunities with a kicker with a field goal because you get past midfield and now you have a chance to tie the game with a kick.

The logic of this is mind-blowing to me. I'm arguing with football fans that they would see more football and they want less football because they like this is little princesses out waltzing out on the field. No, but kicking is football. Yeah. And that's a that play is a very suspenseful intriguing part of the game. He used to come from a man. He used to being a trenches, dog. This is disrespect.

No, look, I just, again, I, it's disrespectful. Do you remember the grind? Nine on seven's, T. Bob. You remember nine on seven? Yeah, nine on seven. You know what I'm saying? Nine on seven. No one disputes your point.

Stop me. No one disputes your point that they are not real football players. I think we all agree with that. Yep. Where we, where we differ is in eliminating that from the game entirely. It's because it's your fee-fees. That's why you or D, they're not real football players, because they're not.

playing football. We want more football, but because you and your feelings about how the greatest moment of my life, the greatest moment of my life, Arian, was when Chase McGrath kicked a field goal with no time left against Alabama, and it got tipped by somebody's fingernail and it was fluttering and you didn't know if it was going to go or not, and it barely sailed through the uprights, and they swarmed the field and they took the uprights into the Tennessee River. It's the greatest moment of my life. And you would have deprived me of that. And then did you all end up on the opposite side? I said, married, by the way. I know what I said. And did you, was it the opposite last year against Georgia? Oh yeah. And that's the other thing. When Max Gilbert walked out there for the

Georgia kick, I looked in his eyes and I said he wants no part of this. I see. And I love that too. I love looking at a kicker's face and pretending like I can use that as a, uh, as a, as like, I can be like, oh, he were fucked. No, if you go back and watch, you can see in his eyes he did not want to be out there. And that's part of the deal. You got to have a kicker with balls. Who is the kicker you had at LSU where they ran the play with the, the holder that threw the ball over his head?

Colt David. That was a great, that was a great trick play. All that, dude, all the kickers at LSU were such hard partiers. Yeah. Colt was so hot and just loved to party, drove a motorcycle, and could just kick the shit out of the ball. That's another thing that you're missing out on here. is the fact that when a kicker does get the ball in their hand and they have to run,

if that kicker shows any sort of remote amount of athleticism, that's an exciting moment, too. You know my favorite kicking moment in the history of footballers? When Sean Taylor took the head off of that motherfucker. As a punter. Different. Different position. He's a kicker.

No, no, he's not. He's a punter. That's my favorite kicking moment. John Taylor absolutely Maliwop that dude And his name's Brian Mormon He's a punter He was also

Actually, you know what He was the fastest player in the NFL Who? Brian Mormon Nobody cares At that Pro Bowl I remember I remember watching about the Pro Bowl

That's how unimportant Kickers are And he was like I'm going to compete In the 40-yard dash against all these guys He might not have been like top three But he finished in the top three of every player at the Pro Bowl. Punter is actually,

either punter or deep snapper is actually the best position to be in football. Now granted, you have no margin of error if you're a deep snapper, so that could be tough, but like punter, you don't even have game winning kicks.

Yeah. Like, it's really rare at the time when you can say that a punter just lost you the game. But I've seen punters win a game. Yeah. 2011, LSU beat Alvairn, and Brad Wing went all.

off that day and control the entire field position battle, just launching nukes. Eagles, Eagles last weekend. They had like four punts down inside the 10 or 5-yard line. I think there's more of an argument that punters are like to remain in the game than kickers. Like, Aaron, you hate punters too? I don't hate. He doesn't know the difference. I understand.

All right. But when it's so in your game, we start. Like asking like your grandfather about video games. He's like, oh, everything's a Nintendo. But just real quick. Just real quick. It's like everyone that is, every nerd is a kicker. Right.

Yeah. So you start at the 25. You have a holding penalty. It's now first and 20 year at the 15. Sacked for a loss of seven. You end up its fourth and 28 from your own seven yard line. And you just have to go. God, go for that shit.

Yeah. I mean, that's, I'd be more willing to entertain getting rid of field goal kickers, but keeping punter. I don't want either But I think punters are Yeah That could be a good compromise Aaron

Because then we're still getting more football But maybe without some of the snowball effects Of crazy like drive starting at the 7 Because to your point You had 4th and 30 Also I will give you

I will give you punters If you give me kickers Okay I want to keep both But if we're going to compromise here And you'd get rid of kick returns And you'd get rid of kick returns and punt returns Nobody gives a shit about

They already have. Them shit is done. No, they're kind of making a comeback right now. You'll get one here and there, but it's just, it's not a thing anymore. No, pun returns are a thing. Punt returns. I'm saying, I'm giving you. But the NFL's bringing kick returns.

Yeah, the NFL kick returns are hot right now. I mean, if you, Aaron, we watch together that play of Tyler Owens. If we don't have punters, we don't get that special teams play. Oh, that's a greatest play we've ever seen. You, Aaron, Aaron, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I got something to say. What position were you your first year in the NFL, Aaron? Where did you play? Run it back.

Yeah, but where did you get your first crack at the field? Special team. Okay. So if it wasn't for kickers, you wouldn't have a job. You're welcome. Not true. That computer that you're on right now, that microphone. I didn't make the roster because I pulled my hamstring and they didn't want me,

they didn't want to keep me on the roster. So they gave the roster. As an undrafted dude who was hurt, they're not going to keep a hurt undrafted dude. So it was like, keep grinding, heal up. We won't pull you back up. This is exactly what happened. If it wasn't for special teams, no job. I mean, to your point, PFT, my first ever play that I was ever involved in was

punt coverage, got into tackle on App State. That was the PP, the personal protector. Oh, I love that. Back there in the shield, just waving the snap and then having to let a guy run with a fucking 10-yard head start just hit you as hard as they could. God, that position fucking sucked. They must have gotten a good return for it for you to make the tackle. It got all the way through the line.

Making the tackle might be a bit generous to me. You had an assist. I dove on top of a guy who was being tackled, but I was fucking hyped. Yeah. Also, probably my favorite football player, right, a 13-yard kick return, you know, because they don't want to kick the Trenton holiday. That's awesome. He was so fast.

He gets your ass down. Nah, uh-uh. I went high and tight. I know what they said in the film room. Oh, yeah. They wanted me to get down. I went high and tight, and I made sure to seek contact on the way down. Oh, you went to school, Trina Holiday?

Hell yeah, dude. That dude, motherfucker was fast. Yeah, oh, my God. Olympic speed. He went to Houston for like two or three years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Trinner was a beast. He, I mean, you know, famously, and I know he ended up, was it Houston before Denver or after Denver?

He went to Denver after us. Okay, because, yeah, famously in that one game against the Ravens, somehow he returned a kick and a punt for a touchdown. and playoff Joe Flacco still beat the Broncos, I think in mile high. Yeah. Yeah, it was on the round. I think he's the fastest player I ever played with that motherfucker. Yeah. And the fact that he was on the smaller side made him look faster.

He looked like a little bullet out there. You like that a lot. Yeah, I do. I do. What team kicked you the ball? Auburn. They went up 7-0. Yeah, they went up 7-0 night game.

And yeah, they tried to squib kick. And when I tell you, time slowed down. dude. It was like, it was like and I could just see the ball coming to me and I was fucking height. That's all right of my life. Again, it's funny because I celebrated it as if I'd scored a touchdown. It was like we're losing

sevens here on the road. But I was so excited. Did you attempt an onside kick? No. They called me Kirsten Pittman on the broadcast though, which devastated me. Because I never played, but I was wearing number 49, so I was also splitting time at fullback at the time, trying to, you know, crack the field however I could. Yeah. So like the night, we get back. We're watching the replay. I'm like, I'm going to hear my name on TV for the first time ever. And Kirsten Pittman was like

a six six defensive end that we had black guy that was just an unbelievable athlete. I could not be farther from Pitt if I tried to be. So that was that was a little disappointing. I, I texted with you yesterday about about the chiefs running back. He was on the C-Hoss. Those are some great questions, by the way. I was like, these are very poignant questions from a friend. Like, I was thinking about it. I was watching the game on Monday night, and I had these things that I thought I believed.

And I was like, wait a second. I've got a good friend who was literally an NFL running back. Maybe let's see what he has to say about it. But it was so Kenneth Walker was on the Seahawks, Super Bowl MVP, and he split time famously with Charbonnet for most of his career in Seattle. And he looked really good when he was, he was the one guy for the Seahawks in the playoffs last year. And then now he goes to Kansas City. He's the guy.

And he looks incredible. And I was like, it does feel like when we do running back by committee sometimes, it is, you're not getting the best out of any of those running backs. You're getting, like, it's not like their powers get better. There's no synergy there. There's something to having like a Belcal guy that gets the benefit of all the reps. And I didn't know if it was vision or if it was something else. but the way that you respond, can you just tell, like, from your point of view, like, what's, why, why is it so much easier to be running back if you don't have to share carries? Yeah, running back by committee is like a, I hate the term because it developed a life of its own.

And a lot of coaches feel like that is how you should do it. And what it basically is you feel like you have a one guy that's good at one thing, one guy's good at another thing. And so you interchange them out. But what you're actually doing is you're limiting the high of any one guy that you feel should be the starter. And so PFT was asking, like, is there something that getting into a rhythm? Is there something to, like, what is it that you actually get into the rhythm? Is it seeing the holes? Is it feeling the play?

Whatever the case is going to be. And I told him, like, it's more about, and when you are a youth coach, you see this all the time. When a player fucks up, what does he do? He looked directly to the sidelines, right? Because he knows he fucked up because the coach is in his ear all the time. What gets your player into the rhythm most is his confidence.

And how do you gain confidence? You let him spin. It's why I always argue like, when runnerbacks fumble, that leash is short as hell. But when quarterbacks throw interceptions, they get such a longer leash because, like, they know with quarterbacks you have to develop his confidence,

but they are less interested in developing the confidence of a running back. And so once you realize, like, it was a moment for me in the NFL. I was telling PFT about when I fumbled and Kube was like, put his ass back in. That let me know, oh, I'm the man. Like, I'm his guy. So that was like, man, relax and play. Just relax and play. You're not playing to disappoint the coaches.

The thing that ruins players' confidence the most is when a coach pulls them because of a mistake. God, dude, Peter. And then once, and then once. And then once, uh, buddy, what's the name? Kenneth Walker.

Mm-hmm. Once he realized he was the man, man, man, I could be me. And this is when you start to develop style, right? Because when you first get into the league, you have to be high and tight, right? You're taught high and tight, right?

But think about some of the best running backs of all time, right? They out here with it. They loose with it. They're comfortable because even if they do fumble, I'm going right back in. So my style is, is more important because of how I run and what I do for this game and what, like,

shine over the years. And, and, and, and that's, it was just a great point that nobody really asked me before that, that, that, that I, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, when I, when I have my guys, no, stay your ass in there, make, make, make a play. I didn't really think about it that way. I always thought, like, it's like most other things that you see plays develop in front of you, you get, you get, you get used to that. And if you come out of the game, then you kind of get out of practice of that for a little bit, and it's helpful to see it repeatedly, which I'm, that, that, that might have something to do with the but I never really thought about the possibility of if you're not looking over your shoulder the entire time.

Like what that does to the difference in style of a running back, like you make cuts. You're not thinking as much, I guess, if you have that background confidence of I'm just going to be playing. So if I make one small mistake, it's not going to cost me my job. And you play to not lose. You don't play to win. I, good God, man. You are bringing up a lot of PTSD for me. because my

yeah my my senior year I went through that exact thing where through just a convoluted series of events for whatever reason Miles just had me in a situation where the second I made a mistake I would get pulled I wouldn't get pulled until I made a mistake

but the second I made a mistake I would get taken out and it fucked with me so bad dude like it could you become a shell of yourself yes you have you have none And the line about playing not to lose as opposed to like playing to win or just going out there and playing your game. Yeah.

Yeah. It's actually, yeah, one of the reasons why I think quarterback play struggled so much in the Miles era is that that was kind of how he started treating them as well. Or like anytime one made a mistake, he'd put the other one in. Yep. And I hate it because to me that's bad coaching. Yeah. Like especially in college or the pros, right, you picked the guy.

And this is what I tell cats. Like, they've been like young running backs to reach over me, reach out to me over the years, right? And I always, one of the pieces of advice of always came was like, they got you because they like what you do. Go do what you do. Develop your skill set. Develop your skill set.

They like that shit. That's why you're there. So be you. Don't become a cog in their system. Don't do that. Be you. Before we get to John Brown, McKinsey.

The Buffalo bills opened up their stadium on Thursday. I saw a video earlier. I don't know if you're more plugged in than I am on this. There was a Zubaz cage outside the stadium. Are the bills going to have a live Buffalo? I don't know. Very interesting. I have no inside info.

But yeah, and all the local news reporters were like tweeting pictures of it too. Yeah. But I haven't heard anything. I mean, that would kick ass. I hope that you do. I'm looking at it now. Yeah, I don't know what else this could let it run onto the field. But like where is it now?

I don't know. That's what I'm saying. Like, I've got a lot of questions. Right, right. What else that pen could be used for? Right. Maybe just the fans. Yeah.

How did the bills become the Zubaz team? That's a good question. I don't know. Because they did make Zubaz for like every team's colors. Yeah. For sure. It might be like with the Zubaz team. the Baltimore Ravens where they made the cargo camo pants for every team.

And then Baltimore's fans were the only ones that were like, yo, this looks good. Yeah. Because like I remember one of my, as a little kid, one of my favorite things at all my old man's like memorabilia was the year that he went to the Pro Bowl, Zubaz, Zubaz was huge. And so he had Niners Zubaz that like Steve Young had given him and like Packer is ones that like Brett Fav have given him and I thought that was like the coolest thing ever. I used to sneak into his closet and just look at the

pants. It might be one of those things where maybe they were originally a Buffalo area company. Yeah, maybe so. No, Minnesota. Oh, wow. Okay. It just, it seems like maybe the the Bill's peak coincided with the Zubez peak. Yeah. Oh, they

because that would have been early 90s. It times up when they were handing him out too. So yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it says Jim Kelly and Frank Craig would wear them. I'll say this. I don't like to talk shit about my own team too much, but I think objectively the commanders have

one of the uglier color palettes in the NFL. Except that, you know, the new burgundy, that is the old burgundy, it looks a lot better. But you said the Niners do? No, no, the commanders. Commanders, okay, but...

But the the burgundy and gold Zubaz pants are actually all. awesome. That's where it truly shines. I love the burgundy gold. I mean, I guess I didn't like the commanders until this season in terms of their colors. Now they're back to like the old ones. So they actually look good now. But yeah, on Zubaz, it looks awesome. We'll get back to macrodosing in a second. It's brought to you by GLD. That's right. GLD. Every guy has those go-to pieces, the shoes that go with everything, the one pair of jeans that fits just right. The t-shirt that

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Today's episode is also brought to you by Stella Blue, where football is back. And to celebrate, we're giving you a chance to hang out with Barcelona Sports on a Sunday. this fall. So they've got the Stella Blue fall kickoff sweep stakes, three grand prize winners, and a guest. Get a Barstool Chicago VIP experience at HQ. Get 500 bucks for travel and 500 bucks and merch. Getting in the giveaway is easy. Go to Stella Blue Coffee.com or Stellablu media pages, fill out the official entry form, buy a Stella Blue can at any target nationwide or select Circle K or 7-Elevens and then upload your receipt in the entry form and get double the entries. For 10 entries,

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Yes, teach me about John Brown. John, welcome down, Brown. I just like saying that. It's a great nickname. So we obviously saw the hype video, Kansas, Missouri last week. And it heavily featured the, like a little bit of a narration about the formation of Kansas and bleeding Kansas and how it was like ground zero for the slavery versus abolition battle back in the 1800s. And also in that video was at least two or three pictures of John Brown kind of depicting what he did. So I want to talk about him a little bit today.

So John Brown was born in Connecticut. And he was born into a tanning family. So somebody that would, the tanners would like make leather goods. Smell like piss. Really bad smell. Yeah. Like terrible. People would always say like tanners were the smelliest dudes in town.

Yeah. Really? They're curing the hides with piss. That's how you made the leather. It smells so good. Yeah. I've never considered that. Ironic.

Yeah. Yeah. It's true. So his father was a Calvinist. and they were very active in the Underground Railroad at the time. So at almost all times, the family would have a part of their house that was secretly kept that they would use to help escape slaves make it to Canada.

So he came from a family that believed very, very fiercely in the fact that slavery was a blight against humankind, and they were instrumental in helping a lot of slaves get to safety. From a young age, he grew up in that type of environment. So the family moved to Ohio in 1805 to a community there that had like-minded abolitionist neighbors. It was like a community that were all, they were all very, very active in the Underground Railroad as well. John Brown, when he was 12, went to stay with a family on a trip that he was on. And I believe he rode a horse there on his own.

He got to the house and the guy that ran the house, was very friendly with John and they got along really well. But there was also a slave that was about 12 years old that lived on that property that John had taken a liking to. They had talked with each other. They'd played a little bit. And then after dinner, John Brown saw the owner of that house beat the shit out of this 12 year old slave with a shovel. And John Brown was like, well, this is really, really fucked up.

It was like an instrumental point in his life that really, that really, if you were, wasn't on that road already to be like a violent abolitionist, it sent him even even further down that path. So he's growing up and he moves around a lot, starts a bunch of businesses and they all fail. He was a terrible businessman. Had a lot of loans that he never repaid, a lot of business ventures that he undertook in partnerships with like some of his friends and neighbors. They all pretty much failed. He wasn't very good at running a business. He filed for bankruptcy in 1842. He got sued by a bunch of banks and creditors, had debts in several towns. And so he just really had a hard time staying in any place and maintaining like a stable financial life whatsoever. But everywhere that

he went, he would set up shop in a new town and he'd be like, okay, this is a new stop on the Underground Railroad right now. So that was like really what he cared about, not business. He was just like how many slaves can I help escape, which I guess is admirable. Yeah, I mean, one thing from some light John Brown reading, again, we'll see what all we learned today. But one thing that I do really appreciate is a lot of times when we talk about history, we talk about this idea of like grading on a historical curve, right? Like you want to celebrate the founding fathers because, yeah, they were really tapped

into the enlightenment and these ideals. and it was amazing. But seemingly these ideals are at odds with slavery, right? Well, look, slavery's always existed and it was accepted as the order of the day. And so you have to allow for that. And I will entertain that. I don't think that's without merit. But you also have to acknowledge the reality that there were plenty of people that saw how in Congress that all was, like how fucked up that all was.

Yeah. They're going to have the Constitution, say all men are created equal, but then have slavery. Yeah. Or that you're going to be a Christian who believes in the equality of men and the freedom of men, but then you're going to have slavery. And Brown cited, I think, both Christianity and the Constitution as being reasons for like, what are you talking about? Like, this is what we profess to believe in. Well, then he kind of went to the other side as well where he's like, I'm a Christian. Slavery is wrong. This can't happen. Let's go kill all the people who have the slaves. So he kind of went all the way to the other side. It's an interesting dichotomy. He got, uh, He had meetings with a number of like really prominent abolitionists later on his life, including Frederick Douglass. And Frederick Douglass walked away being like, yeah, I mean, I thought I was anti-slavery. But that guy is, that guy hates slavery way more than me. Or he was like at the time Frederick Douglass was thinking that there was no, that there could be a nonviolent solution.

And he walked away from being like, I'm not so sure after listening to that guy talk. And then he actually ended up doing something about it. But anyway, so back to his early life. So he married twice. He had 20 kids. So he was a man like to fuck. Had 20 kids, more than half of his kids died in childhood or infancy. And he married his first wife, Dianth Lusk.

And then Mary Ann Day. And I believe Mary Ann Day had maybe 13 kids. kids. Crazy. That's a, but that's also, she's the one that was, uh, yeah, 16. She was 16. 16 married instantly started having kids and, uh, which is probably a big reason why he was terrible. Like he didn't have any money because he was paying for all of his kids all the time. Speaking of grading on a historical curve. Mm. Mm. The idea of 18 is that a modern convention? Like, do we, do we allow for John Brown to

impregnated 16-year-old and not think it's fucked up. How old was he? 31. Oh. Yeah. It's weird. Yeah. That's weird.

Yeah. But for the vast majority of human history, that is what, like, 31-year-olds were into. Yeah. Like, dude, did you see Randy's daughter? She's 13, and I think it's, I mean, I might make a move. Let's make sure to not clip that right there. No. You were speaking on behalf of someone from 200 years ago.

He's doing a character. I'm doing a bit. I'm doing a bit. Yes, I'm clearly doing a bit. Yeah. I guess I saw a funny skit the other day about the creation of like the 18 law. And it's a, you see that same one. Yeah.

They're all like kind of throwing out numbers. And like, ugh. Yeah. No. What's wrong with you? He gets married a couple times. Pops out or his brides pop out 20 kids. So he's working all the time.

But eventually he, you know, he's passing along his beliefs to his children. and they start to become also very active in the abolitionist movement. So then eventually he moves out to Kansas. So there was a Kansas Nebraska Act in 1855. And John Brown was looking at this and it opened it up to popular sovereignty on slavery. So that meant that there was a race to populate Kansas so that you could have a vote to determine whether or not it was going to be. a slave state or a non-slave state. And Congress at the time was very interested in keeping everything even with, there was a delicate balance of the United States where half the states really hated

the fact that the other half of the states had slaves. And Congress's way of dealing with this was saying, well, every state that we let in, that's a free state, we have to let in one that's a slave state. So that way we're still even. Just kind of like kicking. the can down the road and be like, eventually this will work its way out if we just get more states that disagree about this. So I remember when like Texas got in, slave state, California, free state, Utah might have been a territory. Anyways, that's kind of the logic that they had when they were adding new states.

So in Kansas, there was a, it was actually put up to a vote. So they sent a lot of people would go there and they would try to set up homes. steads so that they could populate the state and then vote in the election to determine whether or not it was going to be a slave state or not. And also at the time, so John Brown, he had set up shop in one of his many stops in Springfield, Springfield, Massachusetts, I believe, because there were, you know, the Dred Scott decision, there was a law in place that if you just said that some, like an escape slave was your slave, then it would be your right to collect an escape slave in a free state and bring it back

or bring he or she back to the south where you were. All it had to be was just like your word, just being like, oh, that man, that man is an escape slave from my plantation. And they have to let you. So he was in Springfield, Massachusetts, and he set up like a local almost, almost like a local militia that was saying like if anybody comes in our town and asks for slaves, we're just going to shoot him dead on the spot. So zero people ever went to Springfield, Massachusetts to get a runaway slave.

It was known as like a if you go there, they will kill you instead of giving up a slave. Damn. Yeah. So he goes out to Kansas. And when he gets there, people are always starting to kill each other. because it was it was very very violent in this race to see whether or not it was going to be a slave state or a free state so there was a man named eliza lovejoy and eliza eliza eliza lovejoy was a clergyman he ran an anti-slavery newspaper and he got killed in 1837 there was a mob that attacked the newspaper's headquarters

they smashed his printing press and then they killed them and they buried him in an unmarked grave. No one got convicted of his murder. And it was pro-slavery forces that ended up doing it. And John Brown heard about it. And he heard about this at a prayer meeting. And he stood up and he raised his hand. And he said, here before God, in the presence of these witnesses from this time,

I consecrate my life to the destruction of slavery. And he meant that at the time. So he goes out to 18, in 1855, he goes out to Kansas with two of his kids. And he brings them out there because they were also very active in the abolitionist movement. And they wanted to do something about it with their dad. So they go out there. And in 1856, Lawrence, where the University of Kansas is, or KU, they, there was a pro-slavery activist race. on Lawrence, Kansas in 1856.

They burned down the Free State Hotel. They destroyed all the printing presses, a bunch of homes, and then John Brown heard about this, and they did a counterattack. So they got on their, they got on their horses, and they rolled out on these dudes, and they pretended to be like investigators, like police officers, and, like, questioned where they were from,

and then just absolutely hacked these dudes to death. in retaliation for for an attack on kansas so it was five slavery sympathizers were forced out of their houses at midnight they got hacked with broad swords and their throats cut and then they shot them and so that was uh what was known as the potawaniwanii massacre may 25th 1856 which was done in retaliation again for that first previous raid on on lawrence so then the wife and mother of three of the victims of John Brown wrote a letter to John Brown and she sent it to him in 1859. This was actually after he was already arrested for something later that he would do. She said, although vengeance is not mine, I confess that I do feel

gratified to hear that you were stopped in your fiendish career at Harper's Ferry. and pretty much said like it pained my heart to hear the dying groans of my husband and children if this scrawl gave you any consolation you are welcome to it but pretty much saying like I'm glad that you're getting killed so after the potawateroamie massacre they the newspapers across the country said john brown's a bad guy he's a bad guy violence is not the answer and And the violence from that point spread across the country after the, they called the whole incident bleeding Kansas. So the raid on Lawrence and then the response.

And that was as a whole called bleeding Kansas. And then that kind of spread nationwide to the floor of the United States Senate when Sumner got beaten by a cane or beaten with a cane by Representative Preston Brooks in a debate over slavery in Kansas. And so Sumner almost got beat to death on the floor of the USA. Kind of crazy to think that that should actually happen. Do they do, do we know if the, if the condemnation of Brown extended to the original pro-slavery attacks as well? Or is this like a classic like punishing the response because of the like chains that it represented versus like the original, the original violence?

I don't know. I don't know if because there were at the time newspapers were kind of divided based on how they believed about slavery. Yeah. So they were like pro-slavery newspapers and anti-slavery newspapers. And I would imagine it sounds to me like the big takeaway from this on a zoomed out aspect was like John Brown bad guy for brutally murdering five people. it um it is that that is one of the more interesting parts of uh to me like now that's past the enlightenment right because we're mid 19th century here is that's that's life that has a lot of uh modern day elements and amenities that we can recognize and and relate to but there is a undercurrent of like violence and barbarity that would be completely alien to us yeah like Like you said, like some are getting beaten nearly to death with a cane on the Senate floor. Yeah.

Or even like taarring and feathering and stuff or taking somebody out and hacking him to death with broad swords. Yeah. Well, it's interesting that you brought up like, what was the response to John Brown? Was he looked at as being like a villain in the press? Because the most famous painting of John Brown is the one where he's standing holding a Bible and a gun with a big beard blowing in the wind. Is that the one that they highlighted in the highlight video? Yeah.

Spread eagle like or spread arms like, oh. Yeah. That's in the Kansas state capital. Yep. So, and then there's a tornado in the background and a prairie fire that's behind them. And that was actually completed. That mural was done in 1942. And it's somewhat controversial because it was done by somebody named John Stuart Curry.

And Curry was hired to portray the story of Kansas in this mural. And Curry left the project after. his work became kind of controversial. So there were a lot of complaints over using John Brown as the focal point. The Kansas Council of Women said the murals do not portray the true Kansas. Rather than revealing a law-abiding progressive state, the artist has emphasized the freaks in its history. The tornadoes and John Brown, who did not follow legal procedure. They were very upset that he did not solve slavery in the court of law is kind of what they're

upset about. So it's kind of a controversial thing, but objectively, like kind of a cool mural. Yeah, I mean, it looks sick. Yeah. So after Kansas, John Brown was like, well, I got a taste for like doling out this type of vengeance.

So, so let's roll with it. So two of his sons were actually captured and a third was murdered by pro-slavery settlers. and he leaves and he crossed the Kansas border and he walked into Missouri in 1858 and when he was there he showed up with a with a crew they rolled deep into Missouri they freed 11 slaves and then they led them all the way to Detroit at that point and then they also they killed a slaveholder as they

freed the 11 slaves and president Buchanan put a $250 bounty on John Brown and then John Brown responded by offering $2.50 for the arrest of President Buchanan. So he put a bounty on the president's at it. Failed businesses. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm beginning to see where this guy struggled. Too fitty. But yeah, he was like, he was like, fuck you.

You can't fire me. I quit energy right now. Exactly. So he led 11 slaves up to Michigan. And it was kind of a, it was a success. And then he was like, I've got my eyes set on something a little bit. bigger right now. So as he's going up through Michigan with the slaves, he marched through a harsh winter and they went into a tavern one night and somebody kind of turned him in. And one of his

own men talked about what happened. He said, we now learned that there were about 80 ruffians waiting for us at the Ford. We numbered 22, all told, of men black and white. We marched down upon them, they had as good a position as 80 men could wish, but the closer we got, the farther they got. Because they heard that it was John Brown, and they just started to run away. Because they're like, oh, shit, that's John Brown coming. So, like, the 80 guys were like,

we actually don't want that smoke right now. Walk them down. Walked him down. Dude. Walked him down. And then eventually, after 82 days, they got to Canada. A thousand miles, they walked with the slaves that he freed.

sent him into Canada, they went on their way. So then at that point, John Brown was like, this is actually a good opportunity for me to enact my master plan. And John Brown's master plan was to lead a nationwide slave uprising to arm as many slaves as possible to have them kill their slaveholders and then take over the plantations or escape to the north. is a lofty goal that he had. It does feel like though, I mean, you have, it is lofty,

but you have slave rebellions in the past like Spartacus and everything. Like when you have these slave societies where the slaves so vastly outnumber the kind of ruling class, there is potential there that like that could have caught on. Yeah. I think it probably could have. I think he was right in the fact that slavery was never going to solve itself in terms of like PR, right? Like you can write a lot of letters.

You can raise a lot of awareness. But at the end of the day, I don't think that the South was going to ever give up their slaves voluntarily. And I, you know, outside of force. I wonder, I mean, how did England do it? If I had to guess, it would be because they were less like economically dependent upon it. And maybe they were trying to weaken like the Dutch or Portugal or somebody. so it was just pure like capitalism at play or something.

I mean, it was, yeah, the South, their economy, like it relied on free labor. Yeah, yeah. And they were never going to give that up voluntarily. But there were a lot of people that thought maybe, you know, we write enough letters, we started off newspapers. Eventually it'll, it'll be outlawed in the United States, but it could be outlawed and then there was going to be war anyway. So John Brown thought that the best way to enact this, because he had like a core belief that

it is such a bad thing. Slavery is such an evil thing that there's nothing that you can do that is over the line if it's in the cause of stopping slavery. So he was like, you know what? What we need to do is we need to start a nationwide slave rebellion. And to do that, I'm going to need some guns. And to get some guns, I know just the place, which is the armory at Harper's Ferry. It was in Virginia at the time, but now it's in West Virginia.

So he started playing an attack where it was going to be him, his sons, some other abolitionists, some free slaves that were going to get together. And they were going to kidnap Colonel Lewis Washington, who was George Washington's grandson, I believe. And they were going to take all the rifles they could find, all the weapons they could. could find then march south and start handing out guns to slaves and word would spread and then everybody would try to try to take over the plantations so it was october 16th and they rolled up to this place harper's ferry the armory they kidnapped Washington and uh there were about a hundred thousand weapons there and so brown thought yeah so it's not like it was like a small for 100,000, I think they're mostly rifles.

I don't realize that. I don't realize that. So they rolled up on it. There was a train that was passing through town. And one of the people that was with John Brown's crew, they stopped the train and then had a brief conversation with the conductor and then let that guy go. And that guy at the next stop, he told a bunch of people like, hey, they're taking over the armory right now.

So then there was like a counter. counter attack that happened after that, but it might have worked if it wasn't for, like, if they just kept that train there for a while, it probably would have worked. So during the raid, there were 17 people that ended up dying in it. The first person that was actually a black railroad baggage handler. So they also shot the mayor. They shot two townspeople. And they got to the armory before D.C. knew about it. And then they sent reinforcements. And then the reinforcements rolled up after about 36 hours. So the train on the B&O railroad gets to D.C.

They're like, hey, we need to roll up on these guys. About a day and a half later. Robert E. Lee, Jeb Stewart, these guys commanded some forces that went out to the armory. They rolled up on them October 18, 1859 in the engine house. They killed 10 of John Brown's men. They killed two of his sons. And they captured John Brown. And he was put to trial.

Also one of the guys that was with him, a guy by the name of Edwin Copick. And Edwin Copic is one of my distant relatives, which is kind of, I think he was hung there at Harper's Ferry. So it was my grandfather's wife. I believe her dad was the brother of Copic. No way, he does. Yeah. I think that's how it's related. So like I'd always heard about Copick growing up.

I was like, I haven't, I learned about Edwin Copick before I did about John Brown. So John Brown gets, he gets apprehended and he gets put on trial. So his lawyer, his lawyer wanted to use an insanity defense. And then John Brown was like, no, I'm not, I'm actually the most sane person. It's pretty like kind of what he said. Respect. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, with the recent news. You don't see that all the time these days. You don't. That's a valid point. But maybe he could have said he was depressed.

And also... Slavery made me sad. And also, like, from our perspective, in many ways, you could argue he does look like the most sane person in terms of calling out like, you know, legitimate evil and being like, no, I'm going to, I felt the need to do something about this. Yeah. So his lawyer was like, okay, well, this is the way if you want to get off. He's like, fuck that. I don't want to, this is, I'm a stand on it. So Frederick Douglass said, yeah, this is a cold-blooded murder.

He kind of, like, objected to what John Brown did at Harper's Ferry. So they found him guilty. They asked him, is there any reason why we should not execute you? And he was, he was pretty wounded. I think he got shot during the raid. And he was not prepared to make a statement, but he stood up. And he addressed the court. And he said he never intended to kill or destroy property or,

incite slaves to rebellion. He referred to the Bible to have interfered as I have done. In behalf of his despised poor was not wrong, but right. And so then they're like, okay, we're going to hang you. So they hung them on December 2nd. And to northern abolitionists, he became like a symbol of the cause. To the south, he was a symbol of northern aggression. And when he was hung, he actually, one of the last since he did. He passed a note to the jailer that said, I am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away but with blood. I had, as I now think, vainly flattered myself that without very much bloodshed, it might be done. And at his execution was Robert E. Lee and also John Wilkes Booth. Damn. Pretty prescient statement by Brown there on the deathbed

in terms of predicting exactly what it was going to take for Slaver Dad. Also like a little bit delusional of him to think that like a group of 10 people or like 20 people could roll up on one of the largest armories in the United States, steal all their weapons and then. But they kind of had it. Well, he thought there would be a bunch of people who joined them. Yeah. And nobody ever joined. Like word of mouth. But who know, if they, if that one train hadn't gone to D.C.

and then they roll out with all these weapons and they start like going to different plantations, arming slaves. Like there would have been, it would have been much, much bigger. I think, that's what I'm saying.

It's a spark that could have fanned into a wildfire. And then his other idea was if this happens in like a border state, like Virginia, and it's so close to D.C., eventually the government is going to send troops to back us up or other northern militias. We're going to join in. Like if Ohio heard about it,

they're like, yeah, we'll send you 50 people. And it would kind of like, it would just kind of like catch on. And then, uh, then that would help the push south. But yeah, I, I feel like it was a little bit delusional to say 20. But it, at the end of the day, it ended up making a difference, I think. John Brown, 10 toes down. Tentos down. That man was acting on what he believed in.

And I, and I do understand the logic that he's getting to where like, I mean, I understand where Frederick Douglass and others are coming from. It's kind of like what we were discussing with Senator Murphy, which I guess it's in the future of the time of this recording. But like this idea of like you have to sometimes if you're trying to create change, you feel like you have to create like an acceptable message. And Brown just was like, no, like that side commits heinous acts of violence to defend something that I believe to be morally unacceptable on every front. And so, like, they don't get to be violent and I don't. Yeah. Yeah.

So, I don't know. He was, I guess, a complicated dude. Wasn't afraid to die for it. Made of his time. Yeah. He actually might have, if you were to drop one of us back in, like, the 1800s, I do feel like modern Americans would be like, everybody would be like, what the fuck is going on? Like, that's crazy.

and he kind of had that same like outsider's vision of society that we would have I think dedicated his whole life to just like traveling around and killing people that had slaves yeah yeah Kansas hero right I mean yeah well it also I feel like that's

when they use his image in the in the hype video that really that really set Missouri off I feel like drink was like Yeah, drink was pissed about that. We were, so we interviewed drink on love this morning. We were specifically told no question.

Or they said we could ask one about the hype video, but we, you know, he's just going to be insane thing he did. Like, yeah, I thought that was bad and whatever. Yeah. If it worked, it would have been the best hype video ever. If it didn't work, it's like, maybe you went a little bit too far. Well, I mean, it did. To be fair, I can empathize the drink.

It puts him, you know, he's a leader of a team that has filled with majority young black men and probably didn't feel great to have to discuss with your team that you're being painted as pro-slavery. Yeah. That's not a position he ever thought that he would be put in. No. As head coach of the Missouri Tigers. Do we think this will lead to more hype video boundary pushing?

Oh, like what? So obviously Kansas and Missouri are in a rather unique situation in that regard, but I'm sure there are other subjects that have not been broached in the, football realm that probably could be, I guess. FSA, Oklahoma. Sure. Could be something there. That comes up every few years.

Lane Given said he couldn't, he couldn't recruit at Ole Miss because of its racial history at times. Yeah. What was the most recent development here today, T. Bob? With Lane Kevin? No, there was like a, some sort of court ruling against the L.S.

Yes, it did a player, a lawsuit as he came out of the facility. Prince Lee, Umand me Ellen on Tuesday was leaving the football opposite. He was served papers for a lawsuit over him not fulfilling his, uh, Ole Miss NIL obligations or giving back some sort of money. So yeah, so we are now serving players lawsuits on Tuesday before the game. And granted, Prince Lee has five sacks and two games.

So like, so anything to get on your skin a little bit? You better do anything you can to fuck with Princeley because he's going to be coming to Oxford for blood. This game better be awesome. It's actually that's not a coincidence whatsoever that they're serving him a lawsuit this week. Oh, no. That's why they did it. This lawsuit news came out a month or two ago. Yeah. That him and, uh, uh, I can't remember who the other player was, but that him and one of the other old miss transfers were being sued for taking money that then they like, old miss feels they're, they're supposed to give back. Yeah. Uh, no, there ain't, there ain't no mistakes in this.

I can't wait. It better be a good game. he's right. Ole Miss has a lot to live up to. Tennessee let Lane know what was up. Yeah, you got a golf ball thrown at him. He caught a water bottle, mustard. He threw his visor in the stands. The game got stopped for the debris throwing.

At a point where the game was not over, by the way, and we almost won. Yeah, it was like a failed fourth down or something or a bad spot. Yeah, it was like fourth and 20 and we got it. And they said we didn't. And that's when the thing happened. But we had three timeouts with like, there was maybe a minute left, maybe a little less. And we got the ball back

and ended up with the chance for the Hail Mary and that's when Joe Milton, did he throw it out of bounds or run out of bounds? He ran out of bounds. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It wasn't even a Hail Mary. We were on like the 20. Yeah. Yeah, you had a chance. It isn't, there was a great athletic piece looking at former coaches

leaving and going to rival schools. And I don't know, because it's obviously probably not every example ever, but it was like seven famous example. but in all seven examples, the coach that left ended up winning the return trip, which is probably a bit of a commentary about the school that they left

and the one that they left too because all felt they were leaving for better situations and then all ended up kind of proving it eventually. Ole Miss better hope they win. Or else? Or else they're done. Like they're cooked.

Like this is their year to win. Like they should in theory still be better than LSU. Like Lane's not wrong when he's, talks with them having two Heisman candidates in their backfield. He's not wrong when he talks about them being in the playoff last year. He was being coy. Yeah, but he's right though. Oh, they want everything.

We haven't won anything. Yeah, seven games last year. He was hyping himself up. Seven games last year. Mm-hmm. The thing is, Lane leaving LSU for Ole Miss, and I've said this a bunch today,

but it is the ultimate commentary, like it is the ultimate wound to Ole Miss, ego, pride, identity, self-worth, that at a moment when your relationship should have been strongest, you had finally achieved the mountaintop you were there together. He left you for the guy who's hotter than you, but he's like a drug addict. And he's a disaster.

And you shouldn't be with him, but he still left you for that guy. And then you fell back on the nice guy Pete Golding. And you hope that Pete Golding can get it done. But unfortunately, in real life, the bad guys win. So you think that if LSU wins this game, like Ole Miss... Done. Regressing back to where they were 10 years ago.

Done. Maybe more relevant than then. Mm-hmm. But done. Done. For the heights they want to occupy and they believe they should, done. You're going to end an entire program. I don't agree with that.

I'm about the John Brown Ole Miss on Saturday, do. We're about to fuck them up. He got executed. So that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I didn't consider that element of that shit. Dang.

What about you, Big T, what are you thinking about this weekend? Ole Miss? No, well, yeah, about that game and just Tennessee in general. It's kind of a week's late. Yeah, there's not a ton going on this weekend outside of that one. We have Kennesaw State, big one with the Owls coming in. Houston, Texas Tech. Yeah, it's on Friday.

Saturday, it's not a great. Dude, the Big Ten. The Big Ten schedule this weekend's like the SEC before Thanksgiving. It's bad. Yeah, and they always complete. about that and then they have teams that don't play a power conference team in non-conference. Yeah. Whatever. I don't care.

Hey. Michigan State, Notre Dame. Put some respect on the ACC's name. They three-oed the Big Ten last week. Wake Forest beat Purdue, right? Okay. Boston College beat Rutgers. Okay.

And, oh, what was the last one? It was a bigger one. Hold on. I'll pull my notes back up. I closed it because I wanted to learn story of John Brown without being distracted by electronics. If it's in line with the other two, you don't need to. No, no, no. See, I disagree. Hold on, and I'll tell you why I completely disagree with that notion of what you're saying, that those other wins don't matter. They don't matter.

Because those are... Boston College beating Rutgers does not matter in any sense whatsoever. Oh, and Duke over Illinois. That's a good one. Duke over Illinois. Yeah, I'll give you that one. That's a fine game. But what I'm saying, all of those teams represent... the same slot in their respective conferences, right? Wake Forest, Boston College thought to be the

bottom of the ACC. Purdue, Rutgers thought to be the bottom of the Big Ten. Duke and Illinois both thought to be in the middle. And yet we all shit on the ACCC constantly and we crown the Big Ten because they're big three. All I'm saying is those are pretty equal proxy wars and the ACC three dodom. Yeah, but I mean, that's not the top. Give some credit. I don't give a shit. Give some credit to the ACC. Put some fucking respect on the Atlantic Coastal Conference. Why are you banging for the ACC like that? Because everybody wants to shit all over them all the time and they have a weekend like this and nary a peep.

Their time is when basketball season roll around. No, they're not that great at that anymore. Yeah, they're kind of losing that, unfortunately. They're kind of seem to be slipping there. And I don't like the idea of... SEC's great at basketball. That big tea floated, which was UNC leaving the ACC. I don't like that idea for basketball.

Strange times we live in. It is. All right. Well, hey, T. Bob, thank you for joining us. Love you guys. It's always very fun. Thank you. It's a great time.

And to everybody else, we'll see you guys on Tuesday. Next Tuesday, isn't it? We got an interview with Senator Chris Murphy from Connecticut. We're going to talk about the legislation that's going through Congress right now in terms of college sports. Good combo. And T-Bob is going to be joining us for that. All right. We'll see you guys next week.

Love you guys. Goodbye.