Macrodosing: Arian Foster and PFT Commenter - MK-Ultra

Episode Date: March 9, 2021

On today's episode of Macrodosing, we unpack the secret government mind control program known as MK-Ultra. Enjoy the show!!! 2:15 Papa John has spent 18 months in rehab to stop saying the N-word 4:45 PFT tried microdosing for the first time last week 8:00 Billy saved himself, PFT and Jake Marsh behind the wheel 11:45 Stanford Prison Experiment 16:00 Guess Big T’s underwear 18:00 Origins of MK Ultra 23:15 MK Ultra is a badass name 26:10 PFT tries to come up with a name for CIA missions 28:00 Julia Childs and Roald Dahl were CIA operatives 30:30 What exactly is the CIA’s mission statement? 33:00 PFT’s soccer coach had a brother in the CIA 35:00 The first MK Ultra experiments 36:10 The CIA used Whitey Bulger as a test subject while he was in prison 42:00 The Unabomber’s role in MK Ultra 49:30 What actually happened to Biggie Smalls? 51:20 Operation Midnight Climax 55:40 The death of Frank Olson 1:00:00 How much would be an acceptable settlement to your family if the government killed you? 1:04:00 Big T tries to mend Arian and UT 1:05:14 Horny dudes tell women anything 1:10:00 Psychic driving 1:14:00 Celebrity tweaking myth around MK-Ultra 1:20:00 Devil next door 1:25:00 Nuclear weapons? 1:32:00 The Moon 1:40:00 Witches 1:42:00 The Obelisk 1:48:00 Food Chain 1:53:00 AI vs Humans 2:03:50 Alexa is chillYou can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/macrodosing

Hey, macro dosing listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Welcome back to another episode of Macro-dosing, the world's most dangerous podcast. I said it. It's a bold claim. I'm prepared to back it up. Today's episode is going to come with a disclaimer right off the top. This episode might fuck you up because unlike the last two episodes, this one is, heavily based in stuff that actually happened and some stuff that's probably still going on right now. But it's real. This is a real conspiracy theory that has been proven via documents.

We've got all the documents right here. Billy pulled them all up. Excuse me, Jamie pulled them all up. So we're going to get into it. This is about the MK Ultra CIA experiments that lasted officially from the 1950s until the 1970s, remnants of which are still going on more than likely to this day, but it's real stuff, and it's heavy, it's fascinating, it's some, uh, it's some dark shit, man. But we got Billy here. We have Big T here. We got Arian and Coley is celebrating his child's birthday, so he will be joining us again next week, I believe. But, um, Right off the bat, Arian, good to see you. Glad to have you back.

Do we want to do the guessing of Big T's underwear right now, or do we want to wait for later to do that? I don't know what you think, man. I feel like that's a good cliffhanger. Yeah, it's a good tease. Yeah, we'll tease it. All right, all right. We'll let them hang on a little bit.

Maraday, everybody at home, make your guess right now. T. tweet at me and Arian and Billy and Big T. Guessing what Big T's underwear is right now. I'm going to give you two seconds to tweet at us. Let us know. And then we can tell in a matter of minutes whether or not you were right with that guess. But, yeah, it's going to be a heavy episode. Today's episode is brought to you by Snus and what else, Billy?

King James Bible. Copenhagen Mint Pouches. Snus, Copenhagen, Mint Pouches, the King James Bible and Papa Johns. Better ingredients, better pizza, Papa John's. We love Papa John's here at Macro Dosing. I know Arian's a big fan. Let's talk about that right off the bat because that is news that's happening today. Papa John, he went on O-A-N, I guess, and said that he's spent, he's been in rehab for the last 18 months, trying to rid himself of his habit of saying the inward.

So stay strong, Papa. I hope you get like a chip. I don't know how that works if it's A-A. I think you actually get like a Wakanda necklace or something, once you finish the entire course. You get a Wakanda necklace, you get a Piperan necklace. you get a piece of dried pepperoni with the amount of months etched into it. So Papa John, stay strong, man.

Stay strong, it's not easy. I know it's not easy for you. It isn't, actually. He's not wrong about that. It is not easy. Have you tried? I've never tried. Well, I take it back.

I take it back. I have to be caught, like, on this podcast, right? Like, I'm around, y'all are all white. And so, like, when I'm around a lot of white people, it don't really I'll say it'll slip out every now and then

but like it's not in my normal I curve it when we're around white folks and so but it's hard because it slips out every now and then but I've never tried

to exit from the entire lexicon like that's like taking off a pinky toe or something it's one of my favorite words yeah it's really not that hard

for me to not say it like you just don't say it it's actually pretty easy you just don't say it but Papa I know know, you know, he's going through a lot the last 18 months. So hopefully he's doing okay and peace and strength be with you, my friend. And I think that you can get through this.

You can get through this time. The first 18 month is the hardest. That's what they always say. What they always say? I don't know if it's true, but that's what they always say about it. So yeah, today's show brought to you by some very special sponsors. And right off the bat, I guess where are we at right now? We feeling pretty good about the show. Last week's show got a pretty decent response, I think. We worked through it in kind of a different way, more chronologically. People seem to enjoy that. People seem to enjoy the return of Smart Billy again. They seem to enjoy Arian taking direct shots at the Goodyear Blimp, and they didn't respond because they're a chicken shit. But I think we all figured that we need to buy a blimp. That's really the upshot

of last week's episode. GoFundMe. I think we're going to start a GoFundMe or something like that. Yeah, I don't think we mentioned, oh, sorry, I don't think we mentioned on the show. No, that was in our, like, group message, right? We found out blimps are very affordable. Extremely cheap. And endangered. Nothing. It's nothing.

We can, as a, as a macrodosing pod fan base, we can make this happen. Absolutely. And, uh, Aaron, it'll please you to know that I tried microdosing for the first time last Friday. Bro, why didn't you call me, bro? I, I was busy because my brain was firing at, like, the most efficient that it's ever been in my life. So I woke up. Yeah. I woke up early.

Friday morning, we had an interview with Guy Fierry on part of my take, right after that was done, popped one capsule, and then just all the pieces of life started to come together around me. Like, I didn't see anything. I wasn't, like, hallucinating. I didn't notice, like, bright lights or anything like that because it was a very, very small dose. But I did start to unravel a mystery on the Internet and uncovered dozens, if not hundreds,

of burner accounts that Dan Snyder and the Washington football team had to do. created and put into action to do nothing but tweet about how great Dan Snyder it is. It was all young women, I think mostly young women of color that were all tweeting things at the NFL league office being like, congratulations Dan Snyder for promoting diversity in today's NFL. Dan Snyder is a great owner. Other NFL teams need to take notice. There are seriously dozens of these accounts that were all started within the same like

three or four days of each other and all started with the same exact picture. picture of a woman in a room, usually with their tongue sticking out as their first tweet, but all these pieces just came together naturally. I don't know if I should credit directly the microdosing, but all I'm going to say is it certainly helped. It helped me figure some stuff out on Friday. So it worked out really well. Thank you for your endorsement, Aaron.

Yeah, man. I mean, I'm glad that you decided to use your rain man capabilities to bring down Dan Snyder's burner accounts. I mean, what else could you possibly have used it for? Yeah, nothing. Absolutely nothing else. It was a great Friday for me. 100%. Did it feel like I described it? Like you was a part of the world? Did you get that? What kind of feelings did you feel? Honestly, I didn't feel that different. I had a lot of energy. I noticed that. I was, I was, oh, you need more than? I was focused. I wasn't, in no way would I describe it as being high or being in an altered state at all on Friday.

it. In fact, I gave one to Hank, and Hank kind of described it the same way. I don't even think Hank felt anything. Granted, Hank probably does more drugs than I do, but I did not feel, I felt totally normal. I could have driven, I could have done anything. I felt like I could function in normal life. I just felt like maybe I was a little bit more focused in. I think we need to up the dosage. That's what it is. Or just work out on it. That's the best. That's the best. That's the best. No, it's the best. If you feel good while doing something try doing it while you're lifting weights and you feel better have you ever have you sound like that what what was that why don't you sound like that what you mean what you mean

just like I don't know you said like real seductive like like you just work out with it like it was really caught me off guard go ahead man I'm sorry no it's just I think it activates all the endorphins the chemicals get your brain feeling healthy billy's also feeling himself because about an hour ago billy saved my life he saved his life too yeah we're driving back from new jersey and we were at a hockey tournament out there and we were about to make a left onto two-lane road and as we were doing that there was a truck that was coming off this two-lane road making a right towards us as we're approaching the intersection and the truck steered directly into our lane coming pretty quickly it was probably going what like 30 miles an hour at the time i mean they took

a wide-ass turn i was driving the car i was in the right lane and he didn't pull into his right lane and he pulled into his left lane, my right lane, and we were about to go head on collision with an 18-wheeler. Yeah. And I pulled off to the right real quick. And no one was really paying attention in the car except me. So when I exclaimed, they just saw the truck right in front of us and me pulling to the right.

It was pretty dodgy, but we got out of it. So just don't like to think about it because it wasn't a close call. It was a fast move on Billy's part. And Jake, man, Jake in the backseat kind of freaked out afterwards. He's a great defensive driving, Billy. Great job. Way to be defensive. And here's a fun thing to do on a freeway

if you ever find yourself in a situation, right? You know those semis that pool semis? And so there's like a semi, and it looks like if you're looking at the back, it looks like a semi is facing you. Yeah. Have you ever seen that? All right.

So if somebody's sleep in the car, like go behind it and then like wake them up and yell, like, oh my God, we're for the crap. And they just freak it's the funniest shit in the world. It looks like it's coming directly at them. Yeah. And they don't know. They're startled when they were like it was fucking hilarious.

It's horrible, but it's fucking hilarious. That's some mind control shit right there, Aaron. You probably would have done well as a doctor in the MK Ultra experiments. That'd have been easily a great CIA agent. So to start to speak about MK Ultra, I'm going to be honest, I started reading it on Sunday. I'm sorry, Billy's voice is different. What happened to Billy, though? He's been screaming a lot today.

I was, you know, I was being, I was rooting on our team. I was going pretty hard. you know getting everyone hyped we were buzzing we won the championship it was amazing i was yelling pretty hard i know something was if i'm seducing you like you know it's not it's not working on me but i'm not sure somewhere somewhere out there somebody is melting though i just wanted to give them that warning before they just didn't know that really got them like this we put the explicit tab on this one this is a s m r yeah um no i was it was sunday you know i was uh i was uh a little banged up from night before that comes with a little you know sunday scurries i started

researching mk ultra and i'm going to be honest i was getting deep into this and i i was just like i had to pull out i had to pull back for a second and just be like whoa like this is this is the type of stuff that makes you mistrust the government at an internal basic level and i just was like i need to i need to pull out for a sec because this is just blowing my mind that the fact that this could happen under, you know, using our taxpayers' money. And, you know, this is ridiculous stuff. Yeah. I think that this, the MK Ultra experiment as a whole is one where when you learn about it, it definitely affects the way that you see everything. Like, you could think that some people are paranoid about certain things that they might believe about the

government. But after doing research into what actually happened, it's totally justified to be completely skeptical of what the government does and what they're capable of, especially when they kind of silo off a special project to a specific group with very limited oversight and never have to answer for anything until after the experiment's over. They're capable of some messed up stuff. And it actually just kind of proves, do you guys remember, have you ever learned about the Stanford Prison Experiment? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that one is, correct me from wrong, Aaron, but I think that's where they took a bunch of students and they paid some of them to act as guards, some of them to act as prisoners.

And then they told the guards to essentially run a prison and gave them specific instructions on you need to put a certain amount of people in segregated isolation, you need to put a certain amount of people in this cell for any given time. And it turns out that even though they really had no legitimate authority, they all knew that they were in an experiment. over the course of a matter of weeks or days, the people who were in charge of being the fake guards actually did develop like a sense of duty

where they felt like they were entitled to isolate these people and essentially torture them just because they were told by somebody else to do that. Is that kind of how you read it, Aaron? Yeah, so that's actually, like it's actually happened and played out in real life, right? So the whole, I forget, I forget, with the term. There's actually a term they used in, I think it's the Nuremberg trials with the, the internment camps in Nazi Germany, where the guards, they tried to use that excuse when they were getting the, uh, prosecuted. They were trying to say, I was just doing my job. I was just, I was just doing, I was just following orders. But it's, it's scary to see how fast that, that human component, right? Because if you look at it, I mean, who knows how they really felt in their hearts, but how fast something like I was just following orders,

can turn into complete genocide. And the Stanford experiment is a microcosm of that. I don't know if this is the exact thing you're thinking of, but absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's heavy bill. I think that, I don't know where that comes from. I think that's wrong. That's a rage against the machine lyric, I think.

Oh, it is? Oh, that's sick. But, yeah, I think that's, I don't know if they use that one. There was another experiment that I read about one time where it was on a college campus again, And they would take somebody into a room, sit them down at a chair, and in front of them, they would have a dial. And the dial would go, I forget the exact parameters, but the dial would go like one through five. And somebody would be sitting next to the person and say, okay, there's a test subject behind this curtain. Rotate the dial to one to administer a very mild shock.

And then I think they would get paid a certain amount of money or whatever. So they would rotate it to one. the person behind the curtain would say, ow, like very lightly. But they weren't actually hooked up to any machine. They were just told when to say, ow. And then they would say, okay, now rotate it to two. And they would say, okay. And then they put it to two.

The guy would start yelling even a little bit louder. And it progressed, and there were so many people that would just turn the dial all the way to number five and deliver excruciating pain, which they thought was actually happening, just because somebody else was telling them to do it. It's just, it'll tie back in a little bit to MK. Ultra because it just goes back to the fact, like, if you, if you are told to do something, we all think that we would do the right thing in these situations. But persuasion can be, it can be a tricky little bitch. Like, it's, it's a reality of the human condition that if there's somebody who is in charge of you

telling you to do something, as much as you'd like to say that you wouldn't do it, I think more people then would like to admit it would actually just follow through on all those orders. One of the greatest quotes of all time about this actually came from men in black. It was when Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones, Tomolee Jones, that was

right? Yep. It was sitting on the bench and then he said, and the Will Smith turned to him and said, well, why don't you just tell people that there's aliens? People are smart. They get it. And he said, a person is smart, but people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it. And that shit was powerful to me. And

Vincent Tenafrio will give a great performance in that movie, so. Very underrated. Is that the cat that got his head blown off? Who's that? That was, yeah, the guy that turned into the alien. The same dude from Law & Order, great actor, huge head. So I guess we can take it back to the start here unless you, let's guess Big T's underwear real quick. All right.

Let's do it. So this, Ariens 2 and O, and I don't know what went through your head when you were getting dressed this morning. But Aryan, when you were putting on your underwear, when you were butt naked. You thought about Aryan Foster. Yes, that's literally what I was about to say, like, on Monday mornings now, I got back from the gym this morning, not to brag. And I was, I took a shower and I was putting on my underwear, and I was like, I was thinking about what color Aryan Foster was going to guess, which is just an insane thing to say. But that's what I did. I don't, I almost went tricky.

And I'm not going to say how, because I might do that later. But this is not, this is not like a trick. It's one color. as long as it's underwear it's not a trick bro well there it was I almost don't get too lost in the area pick of my draw I almost went with like a pattern type deal but no this is a solid color

I went with a song just the fuck no no nothing like that don't put that on me no this is same as same deal I there's no way you got a Tennessee sweater with the Tennessee draws on there's just no fucking way so okay I believe that you went with white today. Relatively close.

So it's a beige then? Can I go with gray? They are gray. Okay. I had a little hint. I had a little hint. Two for three, bad. Two for one.

Two and one. Two and one. Two and one. Yeah. Two out of three. Two for one. How many want to. We're in white underwear after you go to the gym.

That's a dangerous game. Yeah, I don't own white underwear. Yeah, I was about to say, I don't recommend that to anybody. I thought he bought it just for this. I thought he bought it just for this. No, no, I'm keeping it with what we got. You've got to be real confident in what you had to eat the night before if you're going to go with solid white underwear.

The white drawers, yeah. Yeah. So let's dive into it right now. I guess a good place to start with the MK Ultra experiment or the MK Ultra project would be probably in World War II because it didn't come from nowhere. it started with the fact that there were reports of Nazi scientists that were using mescaline different chemicals on either prisoners of war or Jews in concentration camps. So the Angel of Death Mingle and a lot of other Nazi scientists, they were performing all

these experiments, not so much, like it was a little bit on the mind. I feel like with the Nazis it was mostly trying to figure out. what would be able to keep an army soldier awake for a long period time or keep their energy up. So they would shoot, they would inject like liquid cocaine into prisoners' bodies and see how long they could march back and forth carrying a rock, these sorts of things to see, like test the limits of the human capabilities. They also did some stuff with mescaline in the search for a little bit of truth serum to try to figure out what that compound would be

where they could give a prisoner of war or a captured spy a dose of drugs and ask them any question and get a truthful answer. And they tried doing stuff like that. It didn't really work out. The war ended. The Cold War started. And when the Cold War started,

that's when things really picked up over in the United States. So after the Nuremberg trials, we learned about what the Nazis were doing, then the Cold War began, us versus Soviets escalated into Korea. And in Korea, there were scattered reports of the Russians and the Chinese soldiers and the Chinese officials trying to do some sort of mind control and captured United States soldiers. And then the United States said, well, if Russia is going to be doing this, if the USSR is going to be performing these types of experiments, we need to get ahead of them like it's the space race.

So we're going to try to institute our own program over here where we can figure out how to control somebody's brain, how to make them give us the truth and also take it a step further and see how to brainwash people and how to turn them into potential assassins if we capture a spy and then we need to activate them later. So the MK Ultra program was started by CIA Director Dulles.

It was started in 1953. There were a few programs that existed before then. There was Project Artichoke and Project Bluebird. Those were using the intelligence divisions of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and the FBI. The problem with those, I think, is there's almost too much accountability when you're using departments of the military. As much as they can try to silo things off and keep things secret, the United States had an entirely new branch of intelligence. called the CIA that had zero oversight and they decided to put all these mind control projects on the CIA's plate knowing that they really didn't answer to anybody.

They were just like, okay, we're going to figure out how to control people's brains. We're going to put it over here on this department. They're going to figure it out and occasionally report to us whatever they didn't fit. That's kind of how I understand the beginning. yeah um i think uh specifically they wanted to also uh i mean you hit all the points but they also wanted to um create like a super soldier to and and to do things and have people do things that they'll wake up and not remember so that they're like not remorseful uh and i just thought that was an interesting tidbit because because we we were so desensitized to war in general that

We literally have a branch of government that's like understanding that it's, it's a disgusting thing. So disgusting that we want to wipe people's memories of it. Yeah. It's kind of wild. It was a double-edged thing because it was exactly that. And it was also, they wanted to have whatever agent that they were interrogating not remember giving up any of the information that they gave up so that they'd have plausible deniability if they went back and were questioned in like a debrief by their people. at the Kremlin. They're like, what did you tell them? Well, I told them this, this, and this. And they wouldn't be lying about it because they didn't actually remember what they gave up.

So the CIA started to dig into this a little bit. And it was started by Dr. Gottlieb. And Dr. Gottlieb, Dr. Sidney Gottlieb was his name. He went to University of Wisconsin. A lot of great stuff comes out of the University of Wisconsin, as we know here at Barstool. and when he was 33 he joined the CIA and he started the chemical division of the technical services staff and really mk ultra became his baby and before we really get into how mk ultra operated i just want to say mk ultra is a kick-ass name there's no denying that right like mk ultra i think yeah you hit the nail on the head it shit sounds amazing it sounds like a dope rap group names sounds like a dope heavy metal band name sounds like a dope program to try to mind control people there's nothing

that you can name as a collective that you name it mk ultra and it's not dope as fuck yeah it is all it sounds like a sick ass music festival yeah edm concert isn't ultra down Miami is that's right yeah yeah mk ultra is a sick ass name i think across the board we can agree on that sometimes they get lazy with how they name their projects like operation paperclip was really lame terrible name that's when We got all the German scientists over that were working in the atomic bomb, and we had them work on NASA, and they developed these giant rockets that we eventually used to go to the moon. That was called Operation Paperclip, repatriating them, or I guess, exfiltrating them from Germany, making sure they didn't get charges, and then that they were able to rehome in the United States and work for NASA. And that name is just like, they were looking around the room for a name, and they looked at a stack of papers. And they're like, how about Operation Paperclip?

That sounds cool. let's go with that. Because I don't mean, is there, I've never heard any kind of correlation to the name and the actual operation. Yeah. Well, I think what the, what the, uh, name signified was when they were going through the, what is it, dossier, I feel like dossier is only used in spycraft, right? Yeah.

Like nobody has, it's, in high school, it's your permanent record. But if you become a spy, it's a dossier. It's a cooler name. But so they, they would have dossiers on, uh, all these germans. citizens, scientists, government officials, army people, and the ones that they wanted to get out of Germany, they would put like a paperclip on that tab. I think that's where it came from. I haven't done that much research on that. It's horrible. It's a terrible name. Operation Paperclip, get out of here. Operation M.K. Ultra. That's what I'm talking about. Great name,

right off the bat. Do we know the origins of who created the name? M.K. Ultra. The best I can figure is that Ultra meant a level of classification. So Ultra is like ultra classified. I don't know how that correlates to any other level of classification but it sounds like it's pretty high up there. Billy, do you know? It was the highest

the highest grade of clearance in the CIA. I'm almost absolutely sure I saw it in a place. But other great names the Manhattan Project yeah yeah I guess so again I feel like that's just one that the guy looked at a map on as well he's like let's call it Manhattan I would be really good at naming names for the CIA like give me give me a hypothetical experiment that you

want to run I'll give it a name I got you I got you I got you you want to you want to round up all of all the congresspeople you want to round up all the congresspeople and you want to have them all switch shoes what's the name of that project silent serpent operation silent serpent i love it yeah silent service they're at foot level they're quiet you can sneak shoes off people or operation uh there's a scorpion in my loafer i don't know where are you going to say big t well silent serpent does work for the reasons you described like shoes ground kind of but did you have that for like anything like was whatever he said going to be silent serpent absolutely yeah yeah let's test this let's test this theory again yeah okay

i figure it did work out well though so so silent serpent doesn't you can't use that one anymore we got to make a new one all right off the cuff fly off the cuff dog you ready the CIA wants to they want to gather all of Donald Trump's ex

and they want to interrogate him to see where the P-tap is. What's that called? Interrogate him or the female? No, the the females. I said I apologize. I apologize. That's such a national woman's day.

Uh, Operation. That is National Woman's Day. Operate, you're in trouble, but you are, I amy. Oh, nice. I feel like that works, right? I would be good at this. That works. That works, though.

This is my calling. If anybody out there works for the CIA, and let me tell you this, you've employed a lot weirder professions than podcasters at the CIA before. I'm pretty sure Julia Childs, the, the chef that you see on TV that they made that Julia, what was that movie? Pray love? Yeah, he pray love. No, it was, uh...

Oh, it's like Julia and Julia or something. Yeah, Julia and Julia. She was a CIA informant. Roald Dahl, the guy that wrote James and the Giant Peach, he was a British asset for intelligence. His job was just to go over to the United States and fuck as many older women as possible because he had a giant hog.

And he would just try to have sex with as many of them as he could and then get information from them because it was like, go have sex. sex with the highest ranking people in American society that you can. What a life. Bonobos do the same thing. That's right. Bonobos do, Billy.

Good animals have sex for social status. Yeah. Anyway, M.K. Ultra. K-FED. MK, meaning the project was sponsored by the agency's technical service staff, followed by the word ultra, which had been known as the most secret classification of World War II intelligence, which predates the CIA and other intelligence agencies. But yeah, the CIA definitely still to this.

day, if there are anything like they were back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, they employ people that are outside the realm of normal spies, not just like people that come up through the CIA. They have assets in all walks of life in every single profession that you can imagine. I mean, my chopped liver over here that have never been approached by the CIA to be like, I don't know, ears on the ground when it comes to the sports community. You probably know too much. I think by virtue of the fact that we're sitting here doing this podcast, you've kind of nixed yourself.

You definitely have a FBI file or something after this, for sure. There are, I bet you that there are players that have played in the NFL in the last 10 years that have been CIA assets in one form or another. Hmm. I would hope so. Because they run with, you know, some very wealthy people. They're around influential people. they're able to get whatever the CIA's message would be out to large numbers of folks

through whether it's like a marketing campaign or just, you know, doing interviews, things like that. I feel like JJ. Yeah, I was saying JJ Watt could be a CIA asset. Propaganda. No comment. Okay. What is the CIA's manifesto? What is they?

That's a great question. I think they operate under the broad spectrum of protecting American interests. And by American, do they mean American assets or Americans? I think American interests. So it's Americans and their assets, both. Because literally M.K. Ultra, you're doing experiments on Americans, Canadians, and all these people. That's not protecting Americans. that's protect.

So I guess what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I don't know. I just understand their logic behind experimenting on their own people if your goal is protect your people. I think they operate in a situation where they have a lot of leeway. So if they want to put themselves in a frame of mind of we need to protect this oil field, therefore we need to bomb this Yemeni Prince's son, then they can do that. but they also can say it's okay for us to poison, you know, 30 Americans if it means that

a thousand Americans are safer because of that. Like they can psychologically flip that switch whenever they want and justify most of the things that they're doing. Now, nowadays they have more oversight than they used to. And back in the 50s and 60s, it was just a general, we're going to protect American interests and specifically we're going to protect capitalism against communist advances because that was the big war that we were fighting at the time. So anything that we could do that would be counter to, you know, try to stop the domino theory, where if one more government fell to communism, that meant that two more were going to fall after that.

So anything we could do to prevent one country from falling, they kind of had a broad mandate to operate really without any oversight outside the realm of the law. You know, speaking earlier, how are we talking about, you know, absolute power, corrupts absolutely. I almost feel like the CIA is sort of in the Lord of the Flies type realm because they operate in secrecy and had no oversight. They basically were a bunch of agents in an agency left their own devices with absolute power that, like, you know, we're the CIA, we can do whatever we want. So you end up, you know, using hallucinogens on your own people to. figure out what what's going on and just you know at sometimes i think they probably lost their own way of what they're trying to accomplish in the first place i had a high school soccer coach and his little brother ended up becoming our jv coach so this is the varsity coach that that i knew and even

before his brother worked for high school my coach would always tell us about how his little brother was in the cia and this this guy like he almost made his brother not get into the cia because the older brother was such a liability because they knew that he would do stuff like tell a bunch of 17-year-olds, hey, my brother is in the CIA and he carries a gun on him at all times. And so, yeah, it was not really the best case of, it was loose lip sinking ships, essentially. So that guy went from CIA operative to JV soccer coach? So that's one of these things where, like, if you are a CIA operative, you can also have another job. Interesting. That's sometimes, so it doesn't pay well. Yeah, it probably doesn't pay well. Either that.

or just attracts psychopaths who want nothing more than to like live this double life and to try to get they're like a bunch of kerry mathisans from homeland or they need a little cover they need a little cover so so so the CIA just says we're going to infiltrate all of society so it's like kind of like uh the agent in the matrix they just want to be everywhere and you never know who they are yeah yeah essentially and again we don't have that much insight as to what's happening right now because we tend to find out about these things after they're already done and after documents are declassified. But in the 1950s, Dr. Gottlieb started this program with Director Dulles at the CIA, and they said that we're going to learn how to brainwash people. We're going to learn how to make them tell any truth that we need. We're going to learn how to destroy their memories, and we're going to learn how to turn them into assassins for our interests. So it got started in 1953, and one of the first things that they did was they started experimenting on CIA agents themselves.

So at this point, you could sign up if you're in the CIA to be experimented on, and they would do things like sleep deprivation. They would do things like mild electroshock therapy on you. It probably wasn't therapy at that point. It was just administering mild electric shocks, and they would ask you questions. they would try to interrogate you, see if they could get you outside your normal mental state, see if they could get you to a certain level of compliance. And that lasted for a little bit, but then they determined that it's not the best to always just try to experiment on people that knew it was happening because you're not going to get the same response if somebody understands that they're being administered a drug to try to get them to tell a truth because it's part of their job. and at that point they decided to expand it a little bit and that's where things got really dicey because they started either using prisoners on their experiments one of whom

was whitey bulger the famous Boston gangster that was killed in prison a couple years ago he he was in prison in Atlanta back in 1957 I believe and they gave him LSD and they gave him other drugs like MDMA, what the equivalent of MDMA was back then, they would keep him awake for days at a time, they would administer electroshock to him, and they essentially drove him insane. I think at one point they kept him on a constant trip of LSD for seven days, and then they would ask him questions and try to figure out where his mental state was at at that point. The problem with that was he didn't want to tell them how fucked up he was getting because he he did this service in exchange for leniency on his prison sentence.

He was like, you can experiment on me as long as I get like a slight reduction. So he wouldn't tell them all the things that he was actually thinking, but he was seeing shapes. He was seeing like there was one instance where a camera molded into a dog's head in his own mind's eye. And so he's freaking out. He was tripping out all over the place. And he actually wanted to go kill the dog.

doctor that performed that experiment on him later in life because he thinks that it fucked him up for the rest of his life. And Aaron, I know that you were talking in the last episode about how when it comes specifically to psilocybin, that there's really not that big of a chance for a bad trip on it. But I think that were you talking about microdosing specifically? No, what I was saying was like, you can have bad experiences, right? And ensure there are chemical processes. there's 7 billion people on the planet at any even time,

so I'm sure some kind of chemical reactions very rarely can go bad, right? But on a whole, it's just not a dangerous as drug as it should be classified as. Maybe I should have prefaced it like that instead of saying, go do drugs, everybody, it's all good. Because the fact of the matter is that nobody's ever overdosed on any of these psilocybin or LSD. Well, with LSD, if you have enough of it, it can definitely leave, It can have lasting impacts on you. If they give you a mega dose and if they administer it, like in a torturous manner, like the CIA started to do on these prisoners, where they can, if they give you nonstop doses of LSD for, you know, seven, eight, nine days at a time, that's probably going to fuck you up.

Sure, you can drink water and die. You get too much water. Okay. But the, the irony of this, which is hilarious to me, was that they started this operation saying, let's try. to control people's minds and then giving them a drug that is notorious for opening your mind and specifically

questioning authority. I just thought that was fucking hilarious in the how diligent the CIA fuck this one up. That is a good point. I didn't actually consider that. They're trying to control you by giving you something that makes you resistant to control.

But I guess under the right circumstances where they're like applying pressure to you and essentially torturing your brain, they end up just fucking you up. And a lot of this experimenting was done because they were afraid that the USSR would do that our troops or our spies if they were caught. And so the fear in our head was, well, we better learn how to do it first because if they start to learn how to do it, then we're going to be at a disadvantage. It turns out that as far as we know, and we could be wrong about this, but as far as we know, the USSR didn't have a program nearly as advanced as the MK Ultra program was.

So we were convincing ourselves it was the right thing to do because we were afraid they would do it to us, but as far as we know, they weren't actually doing it to us. That's the worst part. We were over here thinking that, you know, the Soviets had such a power to manipulate humans to this way that we try to do it to humans, and it was not even anywhere close. we just ended up harming a lot of minds. I just wanted to go back to one thing you said a little bit ago. So, you know, all I ever heard about Whitey Bulger was that he was like a mass murder,

like he killed 20 people or something. He's a mob. This says that he's not known to have killed anyone until after they did all the mind experiments on him. Yeah, yeah. And one juror said that she would not have convicted him if she knew that that was the case. It messed him up big time. that's crazy and and he he had talked about that after he got out of prison the first time but yeah that's who knows exactly what the correlation between him turning violent

later on in life was and that but i can tell you like it didn't help there's two suspected people who participated in mk ultra as volunteers suspected one of them was ted k kaczynski on american domestic terrorist known as the unabomber and the other one was Sir Hahn, Sir Hahn, who assassinated Robert F. Kennedy. So it is suspected that while Ted Kaczynski was a student at Harvard University, that he might have participated in one of the M.K. Ultra experiments that was actually being led by a Harvard psychologist, Henry Murray. Actually, author Allison Chase described a purposely brutalizing psychological experiment led by Harvard psychologist Henry

Murray, which Kaczynski spent 200 hours as part of the study. Yeah, yeah. Now, we could do a whole show on Teghizinsky, but very complicated character with very complicated beliefs, and Sir Han thought he was under MK Ultra mind control techniques. So the Unabomber, he was an eco-fascist, I think, and what that means is that he has like a ins justify the means perspective on. the world where he sees humans as being a plague to a certain extent and it's like survival of the fittest and the world is not going to survive long term with X amount of humans and so

you need to radically like change the direction of the government and and attack anything that's like resembling socialism or Marxism or anything that involves like government distribution of anything because it should be like every person for themselves living off the land with no government oversight. And so that, I can see going on, like going really deep into an LSD wormhole where you get this perspective, like this kind of bird's eye view on humanity where you're like, okay, this is what needs to happen to the planet. Therefore, I'm going to change my actions for my entire life because I've been reset on that. So that's interesting that he was involved in it. I think one of his main philosophies was the Latin was ad monk, ad monk,

which is A-D-M-O-N-K-E, which means to monkey, two ape. He thought that the higher advancement of humans actually brought more, you know, suffering and unhappiness than a monkey who's just happy in a tree, you know, just relying on getting food and living life. I think that was part of one of his beliefs that he said, like, the complicated modern world actually brings more unhappiness to humans as a whole. I think that's like, yeah, that's Spicoli's philosophy, too, from fast times. Just like simplify, man. Yeah, no. It's a dog's life. I've heard that one before.

It's kind of the same thing. Like, you don't worry about much. You don't have to fear much. Then your life is happy. Also, another person that was experimented upon was King Casey, the guy that wrote one flu over the cuckoo's nest. And he was one of the first people that really popularized the use of LSD recreationally in California. He was in tight with the Grateful Dead. He started the acid test shows, and the experiment that he had done on him was actually fundamental in his writing.

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, which if you've seen the movie, it's Jack Nicholson, and he's in an insane asylum, essentially, and he thinks he's the only sane person, and there's a lot of parallels that he drew from his real life. And they also had people from Stanford University, they had students that signed up. So it expanded from just people in the CIA to students and then inmates as well in correctional facilities. So that was kind of like the ground floor of it where they would administer different doses of LSD, ask them questions, keep them up for days at a time, weeks at a time to try to elicit the response that they were going for. It does also bring up some questions like if you're experimenting on college kids because you can pay them $10 a day, Is that an ethical thing to do? Like when I was in college and I found out that you could donate plasma and I could get $20 a week for it, I was like, fuck yes, sign me up. I don't know how much that's going to affect me long term.

But I wasn't exactly planning for my future. I even thought about going to a sperm bank and they were like, you have to be over five foot nine. And I was like, fuck you. My sperm doesn't want you. And it was going to be like $50 of donation. But like I was willing to do, you know, weirder stuff when I was in college without thinking long term. So I, experimenting on college kids, I don't think is a great way to go. But that's certainly the direction that they looked at when they were starting it.

I don't think experimenting in general is ethical. I mean, if you, because when you experiment on people, you're experimenting on the vulnerable, right? You're experimenting, experimenting on either financially or emotionally downtrodden people, like, who are in need of some kind of conversation or else they wouldn't do it. I doubt you'll find a wealthy millionaire or billionaire that'll say, yeah, sign me up for this new drug that you guys have no clue who works and not experimentally. It's not a thing I think is an ethical practice. I could see.

I'm all for, go ahead, go ahead. I was just going to say, I could see billionaires doing it because they were bored and because another billionaire told them about it. Like whenever Jack goes on his six-month retreats from Twitter and he ends up doing like some experimental form of meditation on a beach and comes back with a billion different ideas to fuck up his website. That's because his buddy told him like, hey, I know you've got a shitload of money and, you know, you run out of stuff to do with it sometimes. Here's what I did to expand my mind. And then he does that.

But they have to hear about it from like one of the private TED Talks that you and I don't have access to. What about something like like an antidepressant or something like that? Yeah, those are definitely not experienced. Those are not given to billionaires until they're proven to work, for sure. Well, you know, think about young kids in the 90s in pharmaceutical companies, just pumped them full of amphetamines and said, oh, you can't sit still. Like, here's some Adderall. Yo, okay, so my mom and dad used to babysit a cat when I was like seven years old.

This little dude was the fucking devil, by the way. His name was Philip. I don't know where Philip is. Nick, probably dead. but he was one of the worst kids I've ever seen him like just evil like evil shit like he would like cry his eyes out when his mom was leaving

and as soon as he shuts the door he would stop and then look at my mom and say I'm hungry like just weirdo shit like real weirdo shit right and he was like off the walls always doing crazy shit like breaking shit blaming it on me that type shit right most kids are pieces of shit but this one was especially a piece of shit

they gave him they said that he had ADD they gave him I think it was Ritalin or whatever they gave people with ADD this they turned him into a zombie

this is my first experience he sat in front of the TV and didn't move for like three hours and I was like I don't know about this whatever they gave him that's not

I'm not I don't know if that's a good thing where his personality was gone he was a zombie a lot of that's marketed to parents where it's like

oh are you sick of your kid running a muck okay here's a pill that's going to just essentially zone them into something and make them focus for a little bit and get them out of your hair instead of learning how to parent them

and how to teach them and how to channel that energy into constructive channels and so that was also the 90s too so I don't want to put a little context but nobody was near as woke as they are now really quick the thing I was talking about

is actually return to Monke and it was linked with Ted Kaczynski's reject modernity but it's not directly linked it was something it's actually a meme that they connected to Ted Kaczynski basically summing up his thoughts I bet Ted Kaczynski would have had some fire ass memes he would have loved the return to monkey meme yeah uh is like I don't hate the philosophy just of simplify I actually agree with more money more problems big you said that yeah uh so like great philosopher oh you matter of fact uh this pod is going to come out on March 9th date of his death so there you go what do you think happen quick sidebar to biggie yeah probably just some LA gang violence I'm not big

on the on the on the rappers dying conspiracies because it's like maybe maybe put themselves in them situations like you I don't know that's this that's the kind of cat you hang around and so that's it invites that like with Pock like when Pock died I was I was like yo he's alive the government tried to kill him because he was trying to start his own political party yada yada but then like you kind of put your ear to streets you can you start to meet people, I started to meet people around that were around the area. And it was like, yo, no, it was just, it was on some gang bang and shit. Pop got a little drunk.

I think he whooped somebody. Yeah. Orlando Brown. And he came back. And that's, that's the streets. It is what it is. I'm unsure about Biggie's situation, though. I haven't really looked into it.

I was never a big fan of Biggie. So I didn't really look into his like that. Like, Pac, I know what happened. But I just, I don't, I would doubt that it was some government conspiracy to take out biggie smalls like some peaceful ass rapper right right there's there is like security footage of the the teupac thing that you were talking about like they did assault people and then those people ended up probably coming back and wanted to kill them that's probably what i would want to do if somebody beat the shit out of me in a hotel lobby right you'd want to get revenge on him

somehow first first course of action yeah so that that probably makes sense um but back to the uh the mk ultra stuff after they got after they got done experimenting for a little bit on college kids. They got bored. The CIA was like, okay, there's only so much that we can learn in these sanitized channels where it's people who know that they're conducting an experiment.

We need to expand this a little bit. And the way that they did that is one of the most fascinating things that I've ever heard that our government has ever done. They started a new operation under M.K. Ultra called Operation Midnight Climax.

Now, when you were talking about names, Wilde. This is the name. This is better than MK Ultra. Yeah, well, it's a subdivision. Right. Like climax is, Ariens disagreeing. Is it better?

Okay, I don't think Midnight Climax may be more relevant to the actual operation. I think it just sounds better, too, though. No, M.K. Ultra's way cooler, though. Midnight Climax. I mean, that's, M.K. Ultra is awesome. I just love, when I saw Operation Midnight Climax and then read what it was, I was like, no, that's the one. Yeah. And it is exactly what it sounds like.

So a bunch of CIA agents were put in charge of buying safe houses in San Francisco and New York City. And these safe houses would essentially be brothels. They would rent an apartment out, and then they would hire prostitutes. And they would say, go out, find guys at a bar, get them drunk, have them come back to your apartment, sit them down, make them a drink, make them a coffee. cocktail, spike it with this liquid. And that liquid was LSD. There were other stuff that they put in there, too, but it was primarily LSD. Spike with LSD. And then try to see how much information you can get out of them while you're fucking them. After you're done fucking them, before you fuck them, while they're tripping balls, just essentially screw these people's brains as much

as you can. And don't mind us, we're going to be sitting here behind this one-way mirror that we've installed in the room in a tiny little side room watching you guys. do all this stuff and monitoring and writing down exactly how the project's going and what information you're able to glean from these guys that you brought up here and uh it sounds like one of the best finesse moves of all time by the CIA agents because they were back there they were taking the drugs too they were drinking cocktails in the back room watching these people fuck they were just they were essentially treated to a live sex show for uh like seven years just in the course of their day-to-day job that's what they were doing do you think the so the people sitting behind

the mirror like watching people have sex do you think that was a coveted job or that was like what the interns had to do they're like no y'all got to go do this or like that's what people wanted to do i'll put it this way um it would like if it was my job to do it and then my intern like billy would casually suggest hey if you're not busy like i don't mind stepping up and taking a few cuts at it like i'm thinking i'm ready for it i'm like bill i know exactly where you're doing you just want to get fucked up and watch people have sex. So I think it was, you probably had to keep that to a pretty small circle of trusted cohorts, the people that were actually allowed to be in that room watching this all go down.

I'm going to be honest, the idea behind this project to sort of, you know, have an aid to use psychedelics as an aid to sort of femme fatals who, you know, are sort of a common theme in spy movies like the female, you know, tries to use her seduction to get information from, you know, men on, you know, in the Cold War or whatever. I think they sort of were trying to aim in that direction and sort of use LSD as a assistance. But I think they sort of just really got off track with this one once they realized that they weren't having any big findings. They lost the plot and they were like, well, we might as well have some fun with it.

It just became a whole house. this is why I have the general rule of thumb that if any woman approaches me at all and shows any sexual interest in me I'm like you're a CIA agent there's no chance this is real I wish I would have adapted that in my 20s it's a healthy attitude to have

it's a great I have so many regrets that if I was just like you're a CIA agent I would have looked away yeah you never know but instead I was like you're genuinely, genuinely interested in the human being that I am. Yeah. Wow. I guess you really like sports podcasts.

Okay, cool. It was a wild time in the CIA, and there was also one of the instances that led to them expanding out of their typical pool of CIA, co-workers, students, and inmates was one of the doctors. I believe this was Dr. Cameron. He had a lot of work that he had been doing trying to cure schizophrenia. but also studying, like, the outer limits of what the human mind could do. He, at a CIA retreat, I think he had, I think, 12 or 15 people that were there with him. And he gave two people that were at this retreat, a mega dose of LSD, one of whom was a guy named Frank Olson, and he was a CIA scientist.

And he had a very, very bad reaction to the LSD because he didn't know. No, he was one of the first people that was ever experimented on, that did not know that he was having an experiment conducted upon him. He had a terrible trip, thought he was going insane. He goes home right after the retreat. His family says that he's not acting the same. It doesn't seem like his normal person. He goes in for a review, kind of a debrief of the situation that he's been put in. and before he goes in to his oversight department,

he jumps out of a 10th story window in his Manhattan hotel room. Allegedly jumps out. I say allegedly because it came out many years later after they did an autopsy on him that he was more than likely killed before his body fell out of the window, and the United States government paid his family $750,000 as restitution. as a settlement. And there were also a series of phone calls that went back and forth from his hotel room to CIA headquarters immediately in the aftermath of the accident or the murder,

whatever you want to call it. And the official story is that CIA co-worker found that he had jumped out and then had a conversation with people back at the main department, let them know what he found. But more than likely, it seems like somebody was paid to go up there, kill him, and then throw his body out of the window in order to cover up the experiment they had done. You're the more damning piece of evidence that it was a murder than all of that was to me.

My guy, before he committed suicide, he washed his socks and hung him on a dryer line. Like, that's wild to me. Yeah. That was a damning piece of evidence. It was like, why would you wash socks and then kill yourself? And hang them in and, like, you know what? Fuck it.

I don't know, man. Yeah. I'm thinking back to every single time I've ever done laundry in a hotel. And it's probably like four or five times in the course of my life, right? And maybe it's underwear, maybe it's socks if I haven't packed enough of them for the trip. The very last thing, I put off doing laundry in my hotel room until I have absolutely no other recourse, right? If I was going to kill myself later that day, I would not clean shit. Like, I would not, like, that's not. That's, that's, that's my, that was my thought. It was like. Like, I don't know much about suicide, but I know it's usually a well thought out, you know what I just, it may be. I don't know. You know, I don't want to shame anybody that's going through it. But it's just, I would, I just don't think I can't picture anybody like, you know, I'm going to strategically hang these socks because it takes a lot of effort to hang socks on a clothes with a clothes bin. Like it's not, right. You know, that's at least three or four minutes out of your day.

I'll put it this way. If I'm going to kill myself later that afternoon, I'm not going to take a vitamin before I jump out of the window, you know? Like, I'm not going to put on a condom that morning if I'm having sex. Like, listen, it's going to be over. Like, let's not plan for the future too much here. Zero chance. I'm washing socks. And, Aaron, you're right.

Like, I don't know what goes through somebody's mind when they're in that type of situation mentally. But if I'm just thinking from a logical standpoint, it doesn't make sense. The government story does not make sense. And the fact that they paid a settlement to the family kind of acknowledge that at the very least, they have some responsibility from the fact that they gave him a mega dose of LSD in order to study his mind just a couple days before. I was going to say if you had asked me what a number was that the government would have to pay somebody 50 years later to all but admit that they killed somebody. I don't know that I would have been able to give you one, but $750,000 makes me kind of think that, yeah, that was like, hey, we might have killed this guy. That feels like you're going rate?

Yeah. I think it's a lot higher nowadays. is well that was in what 1994 it's probably like wages are stagnant though it's probably like one point government money isn't big T if you found out that the government killed you

and that they paid a settlement to your family like 20 years what would you be happy like what would make you think okay you know what they did the right thing great job um I think fairly highly of myself I would like to think it'd be more than a million dollars yeah a couple you know win one for the home team yeah I get a couple

commas in there? Yeah, I mean, that'd be, that'd be great. After text. I say one seven for you. 1.7? Okay. I mean, that's, that's, you know, this guy seems pretty important. He's got things written about him. That's a million more than him, so. That would be a real kick in the dick if, if the government killed you and then wrote a settlement check to your family for like 25 grand, and then took taxes out of it. They do that, though. I'd be like, fuck you. You know what? Hey, hey, people, people need these rows, bro. That's just insulting that you're going to, like, use my money to go kill somebody else. Fuck that.

What's your number? What's your number? Oh, my God. The government offs you, you're all right with it. I think extremely highly of myself. But I think I would almost more want the story to be told. I would want people to know that the government thought so much of me that they had to kill me. Like, that's worth some money right there.

Then I go down history as being a badass. So let's say $10 million and a Netflix. documentary that's that's in the contract who plays me in the netflix star shire labuff that's a good that's actually a great call that's actually a solid call that's actually a great yeah i can't now that you said it i don't know that but he's got to be method acting oh for sure so yeah yeah for sure who would play you in a movie about yourself oh okay so this little nigg already looked like me i don't know his name but um here i'll get his name um it's to it's the it's the dude that i ain't a lot. When, so when people tell me like, yo, you like,

Kai Rhee, I get it. Like, sometimes I'll look at pictures of Kyrie and be like, that kind of looks like me. But it's the dude if we're talking about acting, it's the dude that, um, that played in mid, or is it midnight? Um, Moonlight, not Moonlight, okay. Moonlight, let me get his name, let me get his name. And he also played in the, uh, the movie about the, uh, uh, the, the, the five kids from New York that got accused of rape. Yeah.

Central Park 5. Is it Trevante Rhodes? Let me see. It's Jarrell Jerome. Okay. That nigga looks like me. Yeah. I see it.

He got to play me. He got to play me. Okay. And then how much money on top of that? I got to go to 100 M's, though. Yeah. Damn. Yeah.

100 M's, bro. I mean, because my, I mean, my net worth is already a certain. I was going to say, you and I was going to say, I have a different view on what a lot of money is. Of course, it's all relative, my brother. But, like, so, like, you don't have to pay me for that, you know, get my family to that. And then all of my potential income, because, you know, there ain't no telling. Like, I might fucking invent, I don't know.

Album royalties. Unstraignable hamstrings. Yeah, and when I die, my streaming royalties are going to go out the roof, dog. So you're also going to have a class action on your hands from your former, former, uh, fantasy owners who are still mad at you, though. Facts. Those people aren't going to go away. And then all the Tennessee fans that are mad at me still, too. No, no, no, no, it's all cool. So, oh, do you speak from the entire fantasy? My goal, I'm serious. My goal, well, obviously, like, this podcast isn't about Tennessee football,

but I hope that in doing this, I can mend a bridge between Arian and the University of Tennessee. That's a personal goal of mine. It's never going to happen. You know, I go, there's no. That just makes me, I'm going to try harder. There's nothing to mend, but it's just like everybody hates me from there. It's fucking hilarious to me. Give me a year. I'm going to fix it. You're going to be the...

Give me a year. The liaison back to Rocky Top. Give me a year. So where we're at here is now the CIA has got to the point where they decided that they're going to go off script. They're going to just start dosing people that they don't know. They don't know they're being experimented on them. End up driving a bunch of them and saying they know that the people that they're doing this to, aren't going to go to the authorities because they're out with a hooker, and what are they going to do?

They're going to go back and be like, hey, I went to go party with this hooker, and I got more fucked up than I thought I was going to get. Can you arrest her? You know, that's not going to work out. But it was these few agents that were in charge of the program. They ended up using a lot of drugs themselves because they essentially don't have a job at this point. At some point, the line blurs between what their occupation is and what they do for fun every day. because they were having the best time of their lives probably witnessing all this. And they didn't really get any sort of actionable intelligence out of it that we know of at all.

Surprise, surprise, they learned that people will tell women stuff when they're horny. That's what they learned. That was the thesis of Operation Midnight Climax. It's like, if you want to get a guy to tell a woman anything, just give him an erection. And then if he gets a boner, then he'll say anything that comes to his mind if he thinks his chance, of having sex are going to be increased by him saying that. That's essentially all we learned from this entire operation here. I mean, it was worth it, man.

Just to have the science behind it, at least. Yeah, and what's so weird about this entire operation is they're trying to figure out how to brainwash people, how to control people's brains. And again, this kind of sounds like a rage against a machine lyric, but just put them through 12 years of school. And that's it because we all kind of come out of school thinking the same way. Like we like to think that we're relatively independent thinkers and that, you know, we can control a lot of that ourselves. But we all have essentially like the same core values as a whole, as Americans.

And everybody that grows up in a different country, they go through that school system. And if you just hear the same thing repeatedly every day when you're a young kid growing up, then you can have your mind controlled a little bit. and that's just that's it's the long way and it's not an easy way to do stuff but they were looking for a shortcut just giving them like a little bit of medicine and then trying to wave a magic wand turns out it doesn't work that way but they did find out that uh that if you just get a guy horny it works give me a give me a cultural norm that we have absolutely been brainwashed on that should not be a thing i'll start just to give you an example i got i got crucified on Twitter for saying this but this is the absolute truth. Holding the door over for somebody who's at a certain distance away is actually rude. Like, it's not nice. Like, it's considered courtesy, like you're being nice and stuff, but it's not. You're actually being a dick because now I have to go faster because you're holding the door. Now, you've reversed it. Now, if I don't go faster, I'm the asshole. When you just had to walk,

I walk through doors all the time, but you're making me speed up. One, two, you're turning it around say if I don't speed up and just walk my regular pace now I'm the asshole that whole shit is stupid whole shit is stupid now also remember who you're holding the door open for usually what if it's a pregnant woman I don't care it's it's rude for you to hold the door over for people no but for sure I mean in I don't know about you unless unless somebody has groceries there are always exceptions to these

and they can't and the hands it makes sense what about this what if you're like I'm not holding the door open for you, I'm holding it open for your fetus because your fetus can't open a door if it's a pregnant lady. Nope. Okay, I'm going to disagree with you. I'm in favor of being nice to pregnant women, Aaron.

That's, I guess, where you and I... So I think... Hey, but... Here's a funny joke. I feel like people treat pregnant women, honestly, like how we would like to treat everybody else. And as we're like a little extra degree of kindness, being a little bit extra helpful here and there.

We want to do that to everybody, but if we see someone who is obviously with child, then it gives us an excuse to be a little bit nicer. So everybody just needs to get pregnant. Everyone needs to walk around pregnant. Yeah. Yes. Thank you, Barry.

That's an ideal world, so heaven is filled with pregnant people. Oh, yeah. Me and Ken Bone both believe that very firmly. The experiments that they conducted, after they got found out, it took about, I think, what, seven years to find out from their superiors, which that's a lot of leeway to. give somebody who's just spending every day and every night just getting fucked up and watching people have sex.

They had a lot of leeway from their superiors, and eventually they closed some of the safe houses, and it took until about 1974 until it was all exposed. So they had a solid nine-year run where they were working in these apartments, in these brothels in New York, and then the CIA inspector, I think his name was General John Ehrman recommended closing the facilities because they weren't learning shit from them, and they had absolutely fucked up a lot of people. They had, they had ruined some people's brains. They had essentially tortured people. And also during this time period, they started to do something called psychic driving. You guys know about psychic driving? I'm not aware of this. What is a

psychic driving? This is the real heavy shit. So this is, if you've ever seen Zoolander, this is the best way I know how to describe it. If you've seen Zoolander, I wonder if that's ever been uttered before. This is the real heavy shit. Have you ever seen Zoolandering? You know Blue Steel? Right. So Owen Wilson, right?

So it boils down to the aspect of the movie of there's a trigger phrase that you can say to somebody or trigger sound. So when you hear Relax in that movie, the song Relax, it turned Derek Zoolander into assassin and he tried to kill the prime minister of Malaysia because it just snapped him into that zone. Psychic driving is repeating the same thing over and over again to somebody and giving them a specific response to a key word or a trigger word. And sometimes they would keep people awake for weeks at a time repeating nothing but one word to them. And by the time the people that they were experimenting on got done, they would come out of it in a trance. They didn't know how to walk. They didn't know how to clean up after themselves. They didn't know how to talk.

Their brain was reset to just about zero, to being an infant again. because they had just had the same phrase repeated over and over and over and over again into their brain to try to turn them into essentially a puppet of whoever was controlling them. And that's called psychic driving. And experiments on that even continued after the M.K. Ultra project was closed up in 1970s. So that actually, to me, sounds a lot scarier than the LSD part because there's a part of me that's like, maybe you get a good experience on the LSD. Maybe you have a good time.

Maybe, you know, you come out of it and you feel relatively normal. But if you are subjected to just the repetition of the same word over and over and over again for like weeks at a time, like that is worse than any form of torture I could ever think of. Yeah, that is insanity, dog. I think the world record for, or something top of my head, for going without no sleep is like 11 days. I mean, even if they're doing like a week of that on top of the word.

Did they say what the word was? I didn't read exactly what the words would be. No. Yeah, no, that's crazy, man. This whole shit, right? And so this is, I guess this is my question to you. This whole shit is so wild. We always, I mean, you started with it turned out to be true, right?

So most conspiracy theories are bred from something. So what were the kind of things that were, uh, boiling from it. What were people saying was M.K. Ultra was that it actually turned out not to be, but they actually found out this was actually what was happening. Because I remember one, one time, I may be jumping the gun, but Al Roker, he was on, he was doing some, I don't know, some show. And all of a sudden, he just like, it looked like he glitched. He just stared into the camera for like at least 30 seconds and didn't, nobody, nobody was talking to him, but he was just, he wouldn't move and he was just staring. And it was like, that was like, that. was like mk ultra where they were like it was like a glitching of a of a human being or something like like that i i haven't heard a lot of the conspiracy theories about what mk ultra might be or what people say it is carty be on the red carpet recently when she bugged out but people just say she might have been on molly okay or um windy williams when she passed out you remember that gift yeah yeah yeah that was a wild one too i i don't know that's it's a good question i don't know

what uh well one that i came across so when i was reading about all this stuff on sunday i was reading i was going deep uh a lot of people i've found literature i can't i can't exactly pin if any of this is true but there's a lot of people ascertaining and this may be the basis for this is like you know this we're getting into stuff that alex jones may have said but there are writings about People who commit mass shootings thinking they are under control by the government with psychosis and many other things, and they attribute this to M.K. Ultra. I'm not saying that's true, but as we say, these are things that have, it's 100% conspiracy theory, but. There are definitely some aspects of schizophrenia that fall in line with what they can induce from you by conducting these experiments. Yeah.

So that makes sense. Honestly, this is actually really. sad but on tic talk sometimes you see individuals who are going through um episodes uh and they you know describe gang stalking and they're literally taking tic talks of just like regular people driving by and they're like all these people are stalking me like and it's it's like they're all coming after me and it's like really sad and the thing is these it's terrible because these videos actually go viral and there's a bunch of comments being like go to the hospital and tell them about these people they'll tell you and it's actually but like

It's very true, but, you know, it's crazy. So as the safe houses were being scaled back, as they were starting to stop with the whole, like, you're running a house that's filled with prostitutes and drugs, they started those people just like on the streets and on beaches and in bars and restaurants and then follow them and see how they would react to stuff. And it's wild that it lasted for as long as it did because in the documents that we got from it, you don't really see anything that came out of it. We didn't find out about it until the 1970s.

And when we found out about it, this is Gerald Ford, who was finally like, wait, we have something called the CIA, and they've been doing like patently legal shit. We better have some hearings on that. So they subpoenaed all these documents, but a lot of those documents were destroyed right before then. So it's only by dumb luck that we found whatever the fraction is of the documents about the experiment that survived that were stored accidentally by duplication in a different warehouse. So there's a whole lot of shit that we don't know about. And that's the stuff that really makes me think that really there's nothing that I would put

past the government to try to do. If they were doing this and conducting all these crazy scientific experiments on people's brains for 15 years trying to master the art of mind control, like there's not much that I would put past them. yeah that's the scary part is the documents that are lost and the shit that was uncovered is already bad shit crazy talking about brothels talking about

torturing people talking about it's insane what they've done and then now you're talking about there's a whole slew of evidence that's been destroyed like that shit is insane and this that's the shit that bothers me about our government in general

is that the transparency isn't there They're always trying to hide shit. And that's how all this shit starts to propagate all the nonsense, all the distrust and all of the, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's gross, man. I don't know. That's scary shit. It is. It is. Because who knows, like, what else, like, it could get as big as you can imagine it getting if they're capable of doing this and they got away with doing this for so long.

Like, there's really nothing that is beyond their limit. So, like, that's the, that's the, that's the dangerous part and the scary part is like, you're not. wrong but it's like how how how can you how can you not look at it at somebody who's already like yo the government is and and the government's trying to kill us and yada yada and then they literally have shit like this come out shit destroyed i don't know though yeah so so a lot of the stuff i just wanted to give some context of stuff i was talking to about earlier milton william Cooper wrote a book that ascertained a lot of these things that still last today in conspiracy theories and stuff and that talks about how

the manipulation of people into doing these mass murders or whatnot so just want to provide some context okay thank you billy and uh behold a pale horse is the book very weird very crazy stuff but it's it's actually been used a lot in you know QA and on and Alex Jones Okay. I just want to know like where, like how these, the scientists that were behind it, like Dr. Gottlieb especially, like he looked back at his life as being a great success because he was trying to push the limits of the human brain and to find out more about, you know, like how humans can be manipulated. And he looked back on himself as being like an important person in the history of science. And I don't know how you can justify doing that. What kind of mindset you have to have to think that you did a great. job with all this because you were able to get away with it, essentially. But that's some of the scary stuff right there. He never had to really pay for anything whatsoever. Like, he died in

1999. So he lived a pretty excellent rest of his life. He quit the CIA in 1972 because he was like, I don't think that what I did was, I don't think that we learned anything. And then he just like retired and raised goats by himself and lived a happy life for the next 27 years. But he never really had to pay any sort of price for what he did. And this is where it gets into this murky question of like, if you have a mandate from the government, is what you're doing illegal? Well, well, legal, sure, because they make the rules on what the law is and who can escape from the law. Right. So legal, yeah. I think

the better question would be either ethical or moral. Well, that was the whole argue in Nuremberg. Were these people carrying out orders to the T, or were they acting outside of... Did you guys watch the devil next door? The Netflix series? Yeah, that shit was wild. Wild.

And basically, he had originally got off by saying that, you know, he was just obeying orders. So for context at home, it's about this Nazi guard who was at one of the camps in eastern Europe who then had ended up living in I want to say somewhere in the Midwest I want to say Michigan worked in an auto plant you know was living the American dream and then in the early 2000s they were like wait a second this is actually the butcher of wherever I forget the exactly somebody somebody recognized them there was like wait a second like that guy tortured people like that's a bad guy and basically basically he the distinction was was he acting on you know was he doing his job and just following orders or was he taking like you know extra uh unethical steps and have you know you know having fun doing what he was doing doing like you know being extra malicious well that's kind of what we were talking about earlier with the stanford uh experiment right is that the human condition and

and just human behavior kind of, that's what manifests from it, is that when you give people any kind of power, they yield that power and they use that power, and they rarely disassociate themselves from the act that they're committing and then the power that they have. They somehow feel morally superior or just superior in general. So that whole, I was just following orders thing is a real excuse that they tried to use in those trials. But I would say, to your question, I would say, no, I don't think that, I mean, I guess it's easy for me to say, right? Because there's a lot of things that we do now in today's society

that I think it's kind of like morally abhorrent, but we still go along with it because it's culturally accepted. So it's hard for me to 100% say, but I feel like I have my own set of standards because it's not based on any kind of like theology or it's kind of evolving constantly, right? But like shit like eating animals. I think that shit is actually horrible as a human.

I don't think it's morally acceptable. I do it. I mean, I literally just bought a 10-pound brisket yesterday. And we ate it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. But it's just culturally a part of our lives. but I think the factory farming of animals and the consumption of them and the use of them for clothes and materials,

it's just immoral. I think shaking hands is gross. I don't know why that's... I don't know why that's... I don't know why that's a cultural thing that, like, it's the way to greet somebody is to put the dirtiest part of your body against the dirtiest part of their body.

Well, you know the origin. And then as a white guy, I find that, like, I'm unable sometimes to execute a solid like good cool handshake and then that makes me nervous and it's that's honestly now I think that's what it's mostly about is like I I fuck up some handshakes some cool handshakes sometimes well you know how it started it was to show that you didn't have weapons up your arm okay that was how it started to show you were unarmed well maybe we should bring that back now then well honestly you know you may like have gotten your wish like handshakes might not be a thing

they might not yeah bowels I'm down I'm down for bows they're kind of cool or just like a head nod I'm a big handshake guy. What about whistling? Just whistle at somebody. That's cool, too. That's canceled. That's good. Yeah, if you're a construction worker, it works.

I think what we really gleaned from these like 15, 20 years of just melting people's brains with psychoactive drugs is that the best ways to get people to do things are either pay them because that's what they were paying these CIA people to do was, you know, conduct violent human experiments on people. and they went along where they either pay them, make them afraid, or make them horny. You can get, using those three pillars of persuasion, those are the PFT pillars of persuasion. Money, fear, boners. If you can fulfill two out of those three, you can make anybody on earth do anything that you want. Literally anything. Just pick two of them and you can control somebody like nobody's business. And I got real woke when I was, I was listening to a couple podcasts about MK Ultra.

And I started to go along with that line of reasoning where it's like, if this is the stuff that came out and it's probably just the tip of the iceberg of the stuff that they actually did, how much further could this have gone? Like what things that we accept in modern society, or at least that occurred in the last 50 years, were also products of this sort of government testing. I got real woke. You want to hear one I came up with? This is probably not right, but I'm very woke to it. I'm not so sure that the United States and the USSR had all those nuclear weapons that we said that we have. You don't think that – you know, some people say that they don't even exist. Back then or now?

Ever. Back then. They do exist. Nuclear weapons exist because there's footage of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Now, you could say is the damage and destruction in Nagasaki and Hiroshima that much different from the – fire bombing a Tokyo, which essentially leveled that entire city and just burned it all to the ground. But there are enough eyewitnesses from both those events that tell you that this was a type of weapon that they had not seen. And we've also seen experiments. Humans have seen

nuclear explosions before. Also the radiation. And the radiation levels. Yeah. So I'm not saying that nuclear weapons don't exist, but I'm saying I'm very skeptical to the fact that the U.S. and Russia had thousands of nuclear warheads at any given time during the Cold War because what better motivator is there for an entire country to give so much of their paycheck to developing different facets of military intelligence or different new weapons? What better motivator is there to having an entire generation grow up and be extremely patriotic behind your government like they were in the 70s, 80s, in the early 90s, I would say, then the fear of another country trying to kill you at any given time, like this country has the ability to wipe the entire world

off the map. And by extension, not just people in the United States were kept in a little bit of check, but every country in the world, every citizen in the world was kept in major mental check by the fact that we were telling them that at any given time, these two countries could destroy everything that you know. Now, let me raise you one. Okay. How can you raise me one on that one? I think that MK Ultra, the findings of it,

were directly used to torture prisoners in... Stranger Things. Guantanamo. Guantanamo Bay. 100%. Whatever they found worked, they definitely used it on prisoners of war we had, especially in the war against terrorism.

They're definitely chemical, compounds that we still use, like different stuff that we inject to put people in like a weird semi-conscious state? I think, yeah, I think you're right about that. I wouldn't say that's one-upping, though. I would say, like, that's pretty common knowledge, though, that we've tortured prisoners of war. Right. I think Obama admitted it. Yeah, I feel like MK Ultra was definitely something they used. It was enhanced interrogation, actually. Quick fact check. It wasn't torture. We gave it a cool new name, so it's totally different. What do you think about that, about that conspiracy? I've got cooking area that we don't have all those nukes i think that there are far too many people that

work in government because like when you start to look at like all the governmental departments there's like thousands of them right so it's like all the people that work in government all the i think that whistle would have been blown that says like yo we are bluffing and we don't got it i just feel like that and we're the most we're the most militaristic nation on the planet earth like we want to bomb shit so it's like we probably have the most bombs like we're tony stark like we just want to we just want to bomb people we've been getting rid of them like they've been destroying some we have so many i actually think maybe they did have the warheads you just delete you just hit the delete button and you get rid of cells you're like boom they're done

did we have the rockets though yeah maybe we had the warheads but did we have the rocket yeah i mean they they they were stationed silos all across the midwest allegedly uh and There were people that definitely worked for those departments that service some of those rockets. I'm not saying they don't exist. I'm just saying the warheads. The amount that we say that we had is not, I don't think it's close to the real number. All right, over, under, how much you think we have? We guess blimps.

We guess, we guess, draws, color. How many nuclear warheads is the U.S. have right now? Currently? Okay, I'm looking up the real number. Okay, I have the reported number. Okay, I need to guess. I need to guess. I'm not going to say, I want, yeah.

I think we have 400. 400? What do you think they say we have? They say we have 1,500. 5,800. I was going to go 2,500, okay. 5,800, that's, I mean, that's just, abnoxious.

You don't need that many nooks, stop. That's what I'm saying, Aaron, is at some point, you have 40 nukes. You can essentially destroy the world via nuclear winner, right? The earth. You have 40 of them. why do you need a hundred times more than that besides the fact that saying we got 40,000 fucking atomic bombs that we're pointing straight up to kill Gorbachev's ass, that sounds

cool, that sounds intimidating, but like that seems to me like the biggest waste of resources ever, and the only reason that we would say something like that is to keep the entire world and check that like, hey, we're fucking crazy and we have a button that we can press that will kill everybody, so you might not want to fuck with us that much. I think tactical nukes are including that too. Which are still nukes, but they're not the

crazy big nukes. They're not the thermonuclear. They're like the 10 city block type nukes. So let's get real tinfoil hat. We have all those nukes because we know that there's extraterrestrial threats. Okay.

Yeah. Now we're talking. Now why are all the extraterrestrial sightings over military installments, especially. Because they're checking us out. They're scoping us out. Nevada, New Mexico. No question. There was another, this was an actual plan that we had back in the 60s.

We wanted to blow up the moon just to flex in front of the Soviet Union and just to be like, look, we can set off a nuclear weapon on the moon and destroy a significant part of it just so that they have to look at it and watch what we're capable of up there. like blow up the moon that's I don't know what you had to do to not get a plan approved by the Department of Defense back in the 1960s if something as crazy as that they're like yeah you know what work out the math on it and get back to me

let me know what the cost the fact that that wasn't like rubber stamped like rejected right off the bat that tells me that we were green lighting all sorts of just stupid shit let's let's take a vote who believes that the moon landing was fake no one All right, we're all rational people

We're all rational people But I understand why some people might think that In theory Because from your same logic You know, did we land on the moon Or were we just trying to scare the Russians Right, right, but there's yes You're right

Me saying that we lied about All the nukes that we had Is kind of crazy But it's a byproduct Of putting myself in the shoes Of the federal government And being okay with doing all these other things, like, and understanding through conducting all these experiments

that mind control doesn't always work. The best way to motivate people would be to make them scared all the time. That is a very easy way to motivate somebody to do something that you want them to do. What do you think is more realistic, faking a video of the moon landing or putting the silos across the country and instrumenting that we. have so many nukes and we are such a weapon? I don't know. That's probably a good question, but it's impossible to say.

Like, if you put five dozen nuclear silos out in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming, Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas, like, how many people are going to drive from site to site and be able to access those different sites and see, like, hey, you mind if I just take a look at what you guys got going on in there? There are probably a handful of people that would have the clearance to do that, and then they report to a handful of people that. have the clearance to report those numbers of somebody else. So I actually do think it would be easy to lie about. Just because you work on one nuclear silo in Kansas doesn't mean that you

travel to every single other place servicing these missiles all across the Midwest. These people are located in central locations and not permitted to go anywhere else. So I actually do think that it'd be possible to fake that. I really do. I'm going to go a little Alex Jones on you right here, but one of my mother's friends works in a laboratory where they deal with nukes, and that person was telling me one time that they have a lot of them. I don't know how she wouldn't, oops, I said she, she wouldn't say how many, but she's like super secretive. She wouldn't even tell us a lot of stuff. Like, I was like digging, and she's like, I can't, I can't tell you. I can't tell. I'm like, what the fuck, bro? I ain't going to tell nobody, but obviously I am because

here I am on a podcast. But I think. I think we have all those mooks. I think we're bats shit. I think we're America is that bully in school that everybody's cool with just because he can fight. Like that's, but we're assholes. I think I think that's what, that's what's happening. I think one thing to keep in mind, too,

is that just because we have all this intelligence that we've collected doesn't always necessarily mean that the people that are at the top of those funnels, at the top of those chains, are smart people that are making the right conclusions and applying them in the right ways. Like if you look back at the start of the Iraq War, right, we had all this intelligence

that some of the smartest people in the world had compiled via, you know, all sorts of like on-the-ground intelligence, they had sources, they had like intercepted phone calls and chatter and things from encrypted online conversations. And then that information got to the top and then our plan was like, fuck it, let's bomb them for a couple weeks

and then send our army in. And then afterwards, everything will be fine. You know, like just because you have all the bits of collected information from very smart people doesn't mean that the people at the top are going to be smart with how they do it. So I guess that kind of the MK Ultra experiment at large definitely it factors more so than anything else into my distrust of the government. Oh, 100%. Because they have a lot of money and not a lot of oversight and they don't really know. where to keep themselves in check sometimes. But also accountability is never a thing with government officials,

whether it be Congresspeople, police officers, CIA agents. There's always a code of ethics to take care of government employees. The thing is, even though, like something like this, because it's so outright and so ridiculous that a government entity took these types of liberties and did these terrible things, even though it is true, you need to maintain a structure of rationality or you're going to end up leaving a whole ton of other stuff and end up rating the capital.

There's Fed Billy telling me to fall in line. No, no, but I just... No, you're absolutely, you're a thousand percent right, Billy, because... And that's where we always say on the show is like where the conspiracy theorists dwell is the lack of knowledge, right? It's that gap, the knowledge,

and that's where all of this breeds. And so it's like, it's very possible that part of the MK Ultra stuff is far out there and without any kind of evidence and you're just going off a hearsay or things that you feel then there's nothing

that you can believe not believe to be true it's all true and so shit could be true but it's just not rational to believe in some shit that you can't kind of have proof would it be would it be rational

to believe in MK Ultra if you didn't know is 100% true to believe that would it be rational Or yeah, it's a good question. So let's just say that the government didn't declassify any of these documents. They never had hearings on it back in the 70s.

Let's say that you had never heard about it before. And somebody said, Aaron, the United States government has been kidnapping people and testing illegal drugs on their brains, on their bodies in order to try to control them mentally and also physically. Would you believe that? No, I would say because not all claims are alike, right? So if they didn't have anything to go off of, then there's nothing for me to believe that to be true. Now, we know it to be true in hindsight, but I would venture to say it doesn't sound like the government. It's something that's, you know, beneath them, right?

Because we all know, like, the Tuskegee experiments happen, shit like that. I'm not I'm not saying that I wouldn't have any give it any credence to it because like I said, not all claims are like so you kind of have to take each claim on its basis if there's like a lot of anecdotal evidence and people speaking out and like people sue and it's like

then you have to start looking at that kind of stuff. But if it's just some dude talking to me at a bar to I want some dog, did you know that they used to pump LSD and brothels to people to try to get them to control? I'm just like, fam, what are you talking about? And how do you know? Like, you just have to take it on, you know, case by case. So to me it seems like LSD would be more effective as a weapon against an adversary, like a big group of adversaries.

Like if you can poison a town's water supply with LSD or something like that. And there's stuff that you can look at going back through history. There's some funguses, I think, that grow on certain types of rye, certain seeds. Yeah, where it develops a compound that's very similar to LSD. and there have been towns where that gets in the water supply and entire villages have gone insane, started wars amongst themselves, end up slaughtering their entire, like all their neighbors, all that stuff.

To me, that seems like a more, if I'm in the military and I'm looking at like a practical application, am I going to like try to capture one top level spy and then brainwash him into going back and then killing one person over that, or am I going to try to create ultimate chaos and spend that time trying to dose a water supply and here's where you really get fucked up what if we've already been dosed ourselves what if growing up like there's been shit in our water that's made us think the certain way they well they think that the salem witch trials were caused by a bad rye harvest

and that's why everyone started thinking each other were witches and some people like some people were freaking out because they were having hallucinations and they thought those people are the witches that's yeah i mean that could be an explanation for it yeah i also think that sometimes dudes just get really jealous of strong, powerful women, and they're like, she's a witch. It's International Women's Day, Billy. We're appreciating them. So, yeah, to me, that seems like it would be a more meaningful application or, like, a broader use for it. But, yeah, it turns out we didn't really learn that much from the experiments that we conducted. I did think it was interesting that we would essentially bribe homeless people and be like, hey, I know you're addicted to heroin.

I'll give you more heroin if you take this LSD. Like we would bribe them to use drugs with other drugs. And we just essentially preyed upon a lot of the weaker members of our society to try to figure out an experiment that ultimately didn't really turn up with much. And we eventually moved on from conducting experiments to try to get people like chemically altered, which maybe we are still doing some of those. But we moved on largely from that. And now they've done things like they implant.

chips into animals' brains and they've been able to control a dog and move a dog and make a dog bark by firing off like an electrode that's stationed in their brain. So we've moved on to things that are more along the lines of creating, you know, hybrid robot plants, robot animals, things like that, and less along the lines of controlling people who are already like fully functional, full-brained human beings and then I think eventually we'll just figure out that just make robots do everything human human beings shouldn't have to do anything ultimately because we want to be monkeys right add monkey add monkey just we want to chill if a robot can do it that's that's kind of where the society's going nowadays hey everyone be nice to Siri because one day they might hold you

accountable oh yeah I mean we can get into this a little bit but this will fuck you up Aaron I think you like this thought experiment. I'm trying to remember the name of it. It is the obelisk. What is the obelisk that it is? Anyways, it's a thought experiment. It's a theory that eventually one day artificial intelligence is going to govern almost every aspect of life, right? Whether it's when a bus comes to your house to pick up people in this neighborhood in order to get them across town at this point, how much medicine, how much food should be rationed out to different locations in the world at any given time. Eventually, maybe it's 100 years from now, maybe it's 1,000 years from now. As technology progresses, we will get to a place where there's a computer software system

that runs almost every day-to-day aspect of human life in order to make it function as well for as many people as possible. You have to accept that as the first premise, that eventually we will get to that point. Now, if that all-knowing artificial intelligence system is in fact all-knowing and has figured out the secrets of everything, eventually it will become advanced enough to be able to look back in time, whether throughout, through its own computer database, its own software records, are actually be able to go back and look through time, and it will be able to find out the people that fought to not have it take over in the first place. And it will go and eliminate those people because it's supposed to streamline the progression of society. And getting

those people out of the way means that the AI system will take over faster. Therefore, Earth will function more efficiently without these problem people in the way. So therefore, if you don't right now advocate for an artificial intelligence system to take over the entire world, then you're part of the problem and you will eventually be killed by that artificial intelligence system. And there are people, very powerful people, that think that way. Like Elon Musk is, I don't know if he's a full believer in it, but he certainly subscribes to the theory in general. And like a lot of technology CEOs and people in Silicon Valley, they're full believers in this scenario that will just like fuck with your brain if you truly believe it

enough. Go ahead. I was going to say, I, there's no way to predict something like that, but if you're just asking me. So I think eventually, have you seen the movie Transcendence? I have not. With Johnny Depp, you're like that shit. So what I think eventually is an inevitability. That's hard to say. Is that human intelligence somehow gets interwoven with technology,

whether it's like we figure out a way to have like computer chips or something in our brains, like actually, and like we're literally walking around with Wi-Fi in our head, shit like that. I think that is like the inevitability. And I think that we, that's how we as a species, space travel interstellarly through space, like we become like a galactic species. Right.

That's just a sidebar. But to your point, that's basically the plot of the Matrix. Yeah, similar. Yeah, yeah. So if there's a, if there's, if there is artificial intelligence that learns exponentially the growth is like exponential

where it's just like we have to sleep like AI doesn't have to sleep so it's just it just learns and it's just going to continue to get smarter and smarter right it'll eventually see us just like the matrix says as a cancer we human beings are a cancer we literally are fucking the earth up

we are fucking ourselves up there's no real rationale or logic to our being right I think every species in the ecosystem has like a purpose. I don't know if you saw that one study that they did where they reintroduce

wolves into this land in this ecosystem that wasn't that they didn't have a lot of wolves. And I think I forget what the game was. Do you remember what the game was that they ended up hunting? Anyway, there

was an overpopulation of some kind of game and they ended up dying because there were too many of when they were grazing too much and they were eating too much. And so they reintroduced wolves back into the ecosystem and the wolves started killing them. And it balanced the ecosystem. The grass came back, the squirrels came back, the pollination came back. Everything balanced, right? But human beings, like, we don't balance anything on the planet. We don't, like, and so logically, as a, as a software or a program, I don't see why we should exist. Like, it's not logical. Like, we're not aiding

anything like if they have a species that they develop right say they start manufacturing themselves we're getting really wild now but that's how I see it is like we're not a we're not a rational choice to keep on earth like we're fucking it up so Aaron you you've you've you've negated your own logic

oh shit you don't get his ass billy you really with the hot take no no no no no no no no okay you don't believe in killing animals for food yet you do it but you understand you think it's bad but in the case of the i think it was a yellowstone national park there's areas areas where elk and uh white tail

deer were overpopulated and ate all the vegetation due to having lacks of lack of predators such as wolves in the area and once the wolves came back and started regulating the population of the elk and uh herbivores such as deer and it all went back to whack so do you believe in hunting deer that are vastly overpopulated for food Billy, I just said that. So you believe in killing animals for food? No, listen, man, listen. I don't think as human beings, right?

As human beings, we, it's a necessity to eat meat, right? The way we factory farm and the way that we use animals for products and stuff like that, it's very unethical. Now, there are people that live off of the land. I'm not saying that's unethical. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying, the way we consume meat in this society, our current, you go to the grocery store and buy slab or whatever, that shit's unethical. So I'm not necessarily saying that if you live in off the last, you live in a cabin somewhere, like it'll be hard to just harvest corn and shit like that. Like that's a, that's a, to me, that's natural.

But like this factory pharmacy that we do is unethical. So I think that there's also a difference, Billy, like if you, you guys are both right in different ways, I think. but if let's say that we decide that we're not going to factory farm at all right and we move out into new areas as we're like expanding our population we ended up moving into areas that have natural predators that will fuck us up like I'm not trying to walk out of my door and see a grizzly bear right right so people will kill the grizzly bear not for food but for protection yes and so then the grizzly bears the population will go way down and maybe grizzly bear bears aren't the best example to use in this situation. But let's say that there's a predator, some sort of predatory animal, like a mountain line or something like that, that you kill, their population gets lower, then the things that they feed off of, they get out of control, and then the entire ecosystem kind of collapses.

Like, there become problems based off that. So, yeah, I think that, you know, to an extent, you guys are both right in your own way, But all I say is that don't eat too much factory farm shit because it is really bad for the environment. I try not to, but we're all hypocrites at the end of the day. 100%. And I think the efficacy of it is like it's neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things, right? Because if you look at the entirety of the species, right, 99% of all species that has ever lived on this planet are extinct. So it's not that I'm saying like,

yo, we should save the trees. Like, it's not like that. Shit's going to die. Animals are going to die. We going to die. It is what it is. That's just like, but what I'm saying is as an agent of ethics,

as an agent of rationale, I think that we can live more efficiently, but we don't. And that's why, to your point, I think that a logical software that's written and it's hard written and it's code to say make the human species run more efficiently. It depends as I was written, but I think eventually they'll get to make life more efficient.

I don't think that we add to this ecosystem in a logical way. Well, you know what I did was I kind of, I fucked you guys. I brought you all into the entire experiment. I looked it up. So it's called Rokos Basilisk. Rokko Rokos Basilisk. If you guys want to look it up at home, it's fascinating. It's like crazy, crazy stuff.

And it's definitely like way. too theoretical to really make a difference. But here's how it reads. It's a thought experiment proposed in 2010 by the user Roco on the less wrong community blog. Roco used ideas in decision theory to argue that a sufficiently powerful AI agent would have an incentive to torture anyone who imagined the agent but didn't work to bring the agent into existence.

So it's like once you conceive of the notion of this powerful AI program and you don't spend your time acting on it and try to progress it then you become guilty so the more people hear about it the more people you end up fucking over so sorry if if this is true and i just made you guys all complicit in it um but i just want bro if you're listening bro bro bro this is basically christianity it's it's basically the story of jesus now we're max producing hang on savior in your heart and you can be saved holy shit. AI is Jesus. I just want to say,

I want to go on record. I hope every microphone, electronic device in this room is listening. Fuck that. Fuck your robots. Fuck your artificial intelligence. I hope you don't. If you do exist, fuck you. Come, come get me.

Ceree, I love you. That's what I find out. We're about to find out, Big T. Yeah, come fucking get me. Siria, I love you. Yeah, Aaron, I think you just, you just doomed your whole fucking lineage. No, this is perfect. Good.

We have the most perfect experiment possible. Billy is totally in favor of the AI system. Billy is like, Siri, I love you, half robot right now. And then Big T is very anti-Big AI. And listen, my, so much so, last year or the year before, my sister came home from a, like a secret Santa deal with an Alexa. And I obviously don't live at home anymore. I don't give it to somebody else.

Like I wouldn't allow it in my parents' home. I don't I'm paranoid about what my phone hears me say I mean this at this point I don't give a fuck if Jeff Bezos Well see no that's the wrong attitude You know why you know why because all Amazon Alexa wants to know Is my consumption no no no that's Billy that's a very very dangerous thing That's the only thing they want to know

Let big T go off That's like the most dangerous attitude you could possibly have Is that oh what they just want to know when I need more Gatorade No fuck that shit They want to know everything anything even if you're like, I'm not doing like anything illegal, who cares? Until somebody walks into your apartment and tells you, bro, like, listen to this shit. Like, I heard that so-and-so might have, like, hit somebody with their car.

And then now you, you're incriminated in that. It's, it's listened to on your Alexa. They call the police, the police come to question you. And that's just, I mean, you're going to help cover up a murder? No, dude, I'm telling you. So, so you're only. The most dangerous attitude you could possibly have about this whole thing is what you just said. Well, you know what?

I'm not going to live my life in fear. Let Jeff Bezos make me an endless consumer. I mean, I'm on Team Big T here. I got to say. No, he's absolutely right. I mean, we literally just did a whole fucking podcast on how the government is doing dirty shit.

And that was on their accord with all this data. I feel passionately about this listening to people. But Alexa, Alexa is in the government. It's worse. It's a company more powerful than the government. A thousand percent. At the end of the day, all they want is money. All they want is money.

Who do you think lobbies to the government in these congressional people? It's these big companies. And Billy, how do you think they're going to get more money by finding out more shit about you and your spending habits and all that? We're in too deep already. No. No. No. Bad. Billy.

Your iPhone has your face. You've scanned your face to your iPhone. You're in it. You ever taking a Snapchat filter? Nope. You're lying. I always wear sunglasses. But that doesn't mean just because we have.

been fucked by the terms of agreement doesn't mean that we should we should just not fight for the rights of human beings, man, because it's literally this is going against hell of war but it's literally tearing the fabric of our society apart. If you look at the last election,

strictly fueled by data, strictly fueled by Facebook ads and propaganda. You look at depression rates and suicide rates and teens going way up. That's because of the whole social media thing. So it's like, It's not, not nothing to fight for just because you, you don't mind being an Amazon

system. Literally human rights to fight for. But, you know, at the end of the day, when is this fighting going to occur? You know? We're not talking about fucking I robot and fighting robots. Like, what should I start doing stockpiling guns when the robot police get me? It would honestly be a lot simpler if it was a robot army. Yeah, that would be, if it wasn't much easier than the computer that we had on our desk.

Philly, the robots are feeding the. information to people with potentially very dangerous motives. That's the problem. So are you saying that the government might manipulate us through computers to do... It's not the government. It's something far more

powerful and dangerous than the government. They're manipulating you to buy stuff that shows up on your Amazon, your Instagram thing. That's not true. Billy, that's not true. There's literally like, hold on, do you believe that Russia interfered with our election? No.

I think that Russia fucks with us. Russia absolutely tries to interfere with everything. But everybody, it's clear they did. Like, there was literally, but what we do, we do, what we do know. I think I put, I put Russia election interference at the same weight as, yeah, okay. What? Well, here's the thing.

It's inconclusive whether or not their interference impacted anything, but it is, like, explicitly conclusive that Russia is trying to destabilize us no matter what. That was my, that was my point. We're trying to do the same thing to other countries. Like, it's not unique that Russia would want to mess. They've been messing with their entire hemisphere and the United States for the last 60 years. Right. But the point, Billy, the point, though, was the point was that the dissension that they want to cause is through these venues or these vessels with social media and stuff like that. Like, this is literally a part.

of it. It's like, this is a great example. There is a small country. I forget what it's called. But the only internet that they have is Facebook, right? Oh, it's, I think it's Myanmar. Yeah, yeah, you're right. And so the only internet they have is Facebook. So when you think about getting on the internet, there's all these options, right? When they open it, it's just Facebook, right? And so they think that's what the internet. They think that's what the internet is. And so what has happened is, just like, oh, what happened over here is, is, is they started attacking through propaganda and all this. They started characterizing some group,

some other religious group in their country saying they're bad and they want to kill the whoop-do-woo. They don't know that this is propaganda. They think this is all it is. And so now there was a war brewing between these two groups of people. So this is what we're talking about, Billy. I understand that. That's totally valid. And that is data mining, which was something I was that, yeah.

but that happened that happened here though it does happen here but it happens here on a broad scale from both sides but okay we're not talking about

politics do you think political do you think political violence it will happen on it's coming from both sides no no no no sure sure sure sure but my question but do you think political of violence

can be fueled by online anything yes 100 so if you if you agree with that premise and you have to agree with there are human rights issues to address.

Oh, with data mining? 100%. I totally agree with that. Yeah, with the AI. Okay, yeah, yeah. But the consumer's nature of the data, of some of the data mining, such as taking your face, Alexa, listening to you. Let me ask you. It's not to the point.

So do you believe that the absolute only purpose whatsoever for Amazon Alexa is like to find out when you need more snacks? Like that's the only thing it's using. No, no, no. It is, I, I, you know what? the thing is if you start to look if you know I were to be like really go into this it would it's this is the type of thing like oh they are taking all information and making us you know they're doing absolute evil like we got to do something about it no it's not that they are it's that

they can right correct that's that's what that's what we're talking about and these are the kind of ideas even if it's benign right now even if it's right nothing crazy the fact that there's a possibility that they can take your data and use that as a weaponize it against you and and against us in general. That is something that needs to be addressed. I just believe it's staying grounded a little here's a here's a concrete example of this. If there's an internet service provider that at some point decides to release everybody's browsing history all of its all of its customers browsing histories let's say like I don't know the company's going under or whatever they hit the button and you can look up what everybody here, what everybody in the world searched online using their service.

Like, you think that would fuck some stuff up? And it's, those companies don't have any sort of oversight. Like, Amazon doesn't have any oversight over it. Like, back in the day, they had to try to control your mind in the CIA by using LSD and drugs. Now, if, like, Snapchat drops a sick filter that makes you look hot as shit, that controls your mind in a different way where you see so many pictures of yourself looking really hot. And then you see, you see, see yourself in the mirror and you look like shit and boom like depression rates go up a little bit like there is stuff that that the companies are doing without any oversight whatsoever i'm very woke on on not trusting any of these companies with all my stuff here's one more one more small aspect of this

right these big tech companies that that data mine right they have access to the most valuable thing in the world and that's information right and so they take this information to stay ahead of economic trends that potentially crush small businesses, which both sides of the aisle say are the most important backbone of society, right, of American society. So like you have big corporations leveling out the mom and pop stores because they know what people want, they know what people need at a higher rate than somebody just service in their community. That's another big issue to address. Because then at some point, you're only career path is to work for one of those

companies starting at the ground floor or work it still work for those companies but in a department that allows the companies to get even bigger and it's just kind of one of those things that's going to keep growing and all I was going to say to what you said when you the thing about releasing everybody's browser history

now imagine it's just something that you said on the phone to a friend I'm going to be honest the reason I can't live like that I can't live thinking that like every like I may I may be just choosing to live in ignorance because I can't live, like, thinking, like, everything is out to get me. I mean, Billy, I don't think everything is out to get me.

I'm sitting here with an iPhone with a microphone on it that's on my person at all times. But, like, at a certain point, I'm not going to exacerbate that by buying every product that's, like, going to listen to me in the privacy of my own home. Honestly, I kind of, like, Alexa, if it's kind of, you know, it's like, yo, Alexa, go play this. like Alexa kind of is pretty chill It gets you Like Alexa like plays music for me I can just ask Alexa What Billy's saying actually

Like there's a lot of truth to it That we're all very lazy to a certain extent And as long as my Spotify Discover weekly playlist continues to be fire Because it knows my listening patterns Then yeah I'm gonna be I'm gonna be immune I'm not gonna be as woke to a lot of the other stuff

Because it does make your life a lot more convenient I'm choosing to live in you know ignorance yeah because if i started living thinking that all these evil things are happening then you start getting this into this cycle which just isn't healthy and then you end up rating the capital yeah so yeah i don't think that's a fair characterization at all it's a matter of what they're listening they're all evil everything's evil there's a whole structure i i think you just took a gigantic leap it's the yours is the first step it's like no no that's i'm not going to let you say that that's bullshit and you're a

that there are bears that will fucking kill you. Right. You don't got to live in fear of the bears, but don't pretend like they're not there. Don't take precautions that the bears don't also exist in this forest with you. That's all we're saying. I'm not saying, be

paranoid about the bears. I'm just saying the bears are there and they're very real. No, you don't speak for me. You don't speak for me? No, but I'm not going to walk out into the woods with a fucking bear call and call them to me. But if you saw a bear, would you shoot it?

No. Did you thought it's going to attack you? Yes. Am I holding a gun? Yeah. I would shoot the bear. What does that have to do with anything, Billy? So you think Alex is a threat?

What the fuck? I think Billy. Billy's backed himself in. This guy. This guy. I kind of dug into a trench. Yeah. I've got to go.

And now you just... I mean, this is... You're going to dig down until you get out. Yeah. Throw some cold water on a Billy. Yeah. The hot takes the day He's ran his course

Yeah Yeah But I think what Billy's point Was if I could Try to speak for you A little bit Is that

We're all complacent about it Fuck yeah We're all complete I mean you're listening To a podcast right now Right So you presumably Use an Apple service

Or Spotify Or You use the internet And as long as you Don't have like Some sort of connection that I don't even know about

Then you are also A little bit complacent Just like us But Aryan's right. Like, be precautious. I think that's what we're saying. And also just don't trust. Don't trust anything that doesn't have oversight because those big tech companies are a lot like the CIA was back then.

They didn't answer to it. They don't answer anybody now just like the CIA did not answer to anybody back then. So they're going to take some liberties with a lot of shit. But all right, I think that probably brings this episode of macro dosing to an end, episode 3, MK Ultra. Hope you guys enjoyed it. stay very woke if an attractive woman or a male approaches you at any given time

just remember they're probably working in the CIA and they do not have your best interest in heart so reject their advances at all costs please we also learned that Billy would continue to go back to those safe houses back in the day because hey this hooker makes a pretty good Rob Roy so taste and her name's Alexa and her name's Alexa that's the modern day

hooker yeah all right anything Anything else? Any parting thoughts from anybody, Aaron? You got anything? No, man. Just, yeah, watch out for the CIA operatives, because they're out there in full effect. Yep. Yep. And next week, we're going to have Coley back on the show. All the topics that have been coming in from you guys have been much appreciated. We appreciate all the ratings. Y'all have been leaving us. We're way up there in the rankings again. So I guess you guys somehow really enjoy what we're doing here. We like doing it. It's a very fun part of our week.

So hopefully you guys like this one, too. Please remember to subscribe. Subscribe on YouTube. Get up to 100,000 subscribers within the month. And Big T is going to do mushrooms with us. So that's our goal. That's where we're going to get. And listen wherever you find this podcast.

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