Macrodosing: Arian Foster and PFT Commenter - Scientology ft. Mike Rinder

Episode Date: October 13, 2022

On today's episode of Macrodosing, we welcome on special guest Mike Rinder (01:42:40), a former member of the Church of Scientology. Hear all about his life before Scientology to the now ever lasting affects it has on him to this day. All of this and more on today's very special episode. Enjoy!You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/macrodosing

Hey, macrodosing listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon music. Welcome back to Macro-dosing. Macro-dosing brought to you by Game Time. Guess what's back? Hockey is back. Avery being on television at New York Rangers games is back. I love that shit, Avery.

Big T. going to some playoff games, perhaps. Oh, no, wait. Wait, the Mets are not in the playoffs anymore, so you probably won't be able to go to it. any postseason playoff games. Braves are going to play the Yankees in the World Series. Okay, there we go. That was my prediction, too. Big T and Billy will be going, a house divided.

Yeah. Big Yankee Bill and Big T going head to head, and game time will get us in the door. You're obligated to do that now, game time. Game time is the best ticketing app. We love it. It was created by fans for fans. It's a ticketing app that makes it easier than ever to score last minute deals on tickets to sports, concerts, and shows, and they guarantee the lowest price.

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We've got all sorts of macrodosians out in Los Angeles. We've got macrodosians in San Diego. I actually think that Seattle is a low-key big macrodosian town. Yeah, obviously some mac. I'm always going down to go to Seattle. I love Seattle. Whoa, Aaron, as a Houston guy, I can't believe you would say that about the town of Seattle

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redeem code macro get 20 bucks off your first purchase redeem code macro download game time last minute tickets lowest price guaranteed with game time all right macro dosing's back better than ever we got the whole squad right here uh avery is back big t billy myself mad dog arian we're all back today we're going to be getting into scientology i think i think maybe one of my favorite interviews that we've done yeah um the guy used to be very high up in the sea organization which is what they call sea org that's what they call scientology on the inside and a little sneak peek on in the book there's a sea orgy there you go and he got out by the book and he got out smart billy comes out to play in this interview he's a seaman yeah we have we have we have we have a

A verified seaman on this organization. He was one of Elrond Hubbard's seamen. Yeah. Yeah. Alron Hubbard would probably say like this guy is actually my sperm. Yeah. A former semen, as you could say, we all are. That's very true.

Yeah. Yeah. It's very true. Yo, we were, hey, congratulations, everybody on being super fast sperms. I'm with that. Yeah. Yeah, let's go. Like, I'll put you out there.

You're also the fastest. Yeah. Pat yourself on the back. Actually, wait. there's actually the unless unless you're part of like the twins or triplets and you didn't come out first and you know well you still hit an end it's a participation trophy it's like okay it's like second or third place is not bad out of billions you still hit an egg i was high stepping in my last like 10 yards on the way to the egg i was like they're not going to catch me actually

guys the the odds of you existing which is like this is a tiny number it is one in 10 to the 2,685,000, 10 to that number. Yo. So it's fucking, that is, that is a tiny percentage of you existing. And everybody matters. Everyone exists. And you are rare, no matter what, the scheme of the universe. At this time, in this moment, as a human on earth.

Yeah. It's tiny. So all of you. Respect. Get hyped about those. Beal inspirational. Let's go. just rip smelling salts if you can't tell we're all built different knows it was medical no that was

good billy i like that yeah would a way to i hope somebody's listening to this to start their day and they're like you know what billy's right i am i am different i'm special in the scheme of the universe you are so god damn unique yeah remember that yeah so go out there and well i won't go that far oh come on erin people were buzzing i'm i'm i'm i'm the boy i'm sorry actually us existing is more impressive than a human making the nfl so just it's good point just got to humble you there his logic was horrible billy billy is a NFL player in terms he's in the sperm NFL billy there you go billy's the hall ofamer yeah hall of fame billy's the Travis kelsey of his own dad's nut sack

how about that on the goat you are yeah the greatest sperm of all time from your dad yeah we can all probably we all fit in that category maybe you have brothers sisters maybe you know but you played in different errors yeah still yeah that's wild to think about though like we're all like we're all ejaculations like different personalities you know what I mean like you're we're getting we're just spouting out a whole bunch of different. Yeah. That's wild to think about.

Like if your dad, if your dad was in a good mood, does that affect the sperm? Like if you was, if it was stressed, does that make the sperm lower quality? If your dad was drunk at the time, does that affect you? Well, you know what's crazy? The sperm, your sperm takes like, I think it's three months to develop. So like from when it starts, when it comes out of you, that's like three months of development. And then, so then you have to subtract. nine months

then the gestation period as well so it's really like 12 months so really like you were created as a sperm about an exact year before you were actually born yeah well also we got shout out eggs unless you were artificially inseminated

true let's shout out eggs real quick because we begin sperm a lot of shout out eggs shout out eggs yeah because big shout out to the eggs but the eggs don't they don't have tails and move around so it's harder to anthropomorph they are the prize they are yeah you guys are all trying to get to the egg so are you what do you mean me you were sperm too yeah but now i have more of an appreciation for eggs right but i'm saying

like let's don't act like you're not a sperm i'm not saying i'm well you forgot your roots low key male sperm are faster because they have less genetic material all right all right i didn't think that it was going to take yeah we we lasted about four minutes into the sperm conversation. No, I'm just saying. It wasn't sexist. It's a fact. It's a fact.

You have no idea if that's a fact or not. That is a fact because X, X is more than X. I would like to get to the bottom of this. Let's see. That's our. Says who? I didn't even know that there were male sperm or females bear them. I had no idea.

The Y chromosome, which makes boys, contains less DNA than the X chromosome for girls. That means sperm that bear a Y chromosome swim faster in viscous liquid, such as liquid existing at the tip of women's cervix. Sounds like you guys just don't have. enough going on. Yeah, that's also facts. Yeah. Also, Billy, if that were the case, then there would be way more men on earth than women.

Ratio would be way booed. Well, no, but guess what? It depends on how thick the, like, the first sperm isn't necessarily the sperm that breaks the. He goes, guess what? It just gets their faster. It gets their first. It's like sometimes like a wedge buster. Okay.

Yeah. And then the female sperm is like a scat back. Yeah. Like Darren Sproles type. Like male sperm are usually full backs. Got it. Yeah. that was probably

that might have been the most scientifically accurate thing Billy's ever said yeah I'm sure we'll have a geneticist or yeah is there a gene guy on Billy's list a urologist I have a my

my step dad is a PhD geneticist there it is he would be more than happy to come on can you just we should definitely have them no pun intended can you just ask him can you just ask him can you just

asking him if male sperms are faster? I, you go to call my mama right quick. Okay, so Billy just Googled it and now he's acting like he pulled up a research study. It's from science.org. My mom right quick. Like, if that's not science, if that's not, like, that's got to be science.

But I actually had a crazy thought. I have a new way to fix capitalism. Hear me out. No, just listen to me. All publicly, we basically make it a little. We basically make it illegal to pay in wages. You have to pay in shares of the company.

And the only way to buy those shares is to buy them from the employees who receive the shares from the company. I think Billy just invented a co-op. Yeah, but like you make, but then you can still have. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I want to finish the conversation. Furman, do you have time for a small science question?

well you're probably moved on your motherfucker for it's not okay so okay so okay office is okay office is perfect place for it what perfect place for what? old people shit what are you talking about I just like they're probably at some office yeah

that's what you just said I know but like it's like the classic place for old people to go to an office yeah like they're probably in a waiting room I guess really like most like

old people are just chilling in waiting rooms like all the time like when I hung out with my grandma we were just in waiting rooms all the time and I was like trying to read random magazines

that I didn't understand and none were geared towards me again they didn't have like saskwash weekly no zoo books no zoo books it was all just you know the inquirer

what were the hottest magazines for kids were you guys like highlights for children people sports illustrated yeah aside for kids they had those credit cards you could tear out East Bay yeah East Bay yeah and then I don't know

this might be too America's name but the source I'm familiar with the source I did not read it I heard about it It was a hip-hop. It was a hip-hop magazine. So, like, albums would come out, and they would, yeah, 100%. Albums would come out, and they would rate them, like, five mics is, like, the hottest. You know what I'm saying?

And then that's why Eminem mentioned the source, because it was propaganda. Like, he was beefing with Benzino. Benzino was, like, one of the owners of the source. And so they never gave Eminem five mics. No, the source wrote it. I would read East Bay, too. East Bay was awesome just to look at it and be like, man, I would buy those shoes. What were the best catalogs?

Oh, we circled a whole bunch of shit I never. Matter of fact, when I got any money, that's exactly what I did. I bought four pairs of shoes that I never wore, but that I circled as a kid that I was going to get one day. They were, I couldn't find one of them, though. The Jason Kid ones with the little alien eye on the side. Yeah, I love those. I circled those, never could get those. The Jordan 12s, and then the Scotty Pippin, the one with a little.

Pepper Jones on the side. And then the Charles Barkley's with the air on the side. So I bought like four pairs of shoes from like the shoe vendor that I never, I don't even like shoes. It was just like a fuck you childhood thing, you know? It's funny. You mentioned I did the same thing. Obviously, I didn't get like NFL money.

But when I got, I think it was my second contract here, I was like, you know what? I had, I had shoes that I wanted when I was a kid that some of my friends had that I never was able to get. I got the penny twos. Penny twos. Those were... Oh, I got the... I forgot about that one.

Yes, I got the pennies. Yeah. Did you get the black ones or the white ones? White ones. Yeah, I mean, I want to get the black ones still, but you can't find them. They're real tough to track down. With the penny twos... That's like, any shoe guys out there, highlight PFT, they're out there somewhere.

Yeah, Aaron, let's get matching penny twos. I'm with that, and we'll wear them together at the same time. Whatever. That sounds amazing. Just bros... How about that? We'll do at a live show. We'll match outfits.

Whole fit. Yeah. Who wore it better? Whole fit. I like that. Oh, last stunt, last flex. I was on the cover of East Bay Magazine and that shit was like a wow moment to me. I was like, elate.

Because like I grew up getting that magazine. Yeah, I remember that. And circling everything in that bitch. Yeah. You were running on a field? I was like doing a running pose. Yeah. And you were, was it Under Armour?

Or it was like? I have signed with unarmed I think it's on 12. Were you in red? I do remember that. I think you're in red tights. I put mad. I don't know if it's red.

But I was like a mad filter on my face and shit. I was like, what the fuck? That's amazing. But it was cool, man. Just because like as a kid, as a little poor kid, you're constantly circling shit in magazines

and you end up on one of the covers. That's fucking amazing. That's a huge flex, yeah. Yeah, big flex. But, you know, it's a humble, humble flex. Okay. I just, I looked it up, Aryan Foster, East Bay. The top hit is, well, it's on Reddit, so you know it's good.

I just got this in the mail. He looks so uninterested. And it's a picture of Aryan. It was May, let's see, May 2012, May 26. There's Arian Foster carrying a football. You do look uninterested. This person was right. You look uninterested.

It's not even uninterested. It's like your eyes are glossed over. Can I be honest? Like you just look like a normal person. I don't know why this person said, you look like a regular person. You're just looking off like not into the camera, so it looks like. Yeah, the beard looks good in the picture. Honestly, I don't know if that's the...

I think there's a filter. They put the Drake filter on you. I don't know if that's the... Yeah, they definitely put the Drake filter on it. Like from the, I'd say from the nose down, you look. look, and the ears down, you look very drakish. Did you read the top comment? No, I didn't. Let's read NFL, old Reddit NFL comments about Aaron Foster.

He's composing haikus and stuff. I like that. Did you ever write a haiku? Yeah, of course. I grew up writing poetry. Like, that was, I wrote poetry before I did music. So that person was right. uh no i wasn't currently at that moment writing hyacuz so he's wrong uh this is the look described by sir arthur conan doyle when churlock holmes has when insert when exerting his full powers that's uh that's very much a deep cut right there yeah as this is reach there was reaching

on now this guy said boy i wish i signed a better long-term sponsorship deal my rookie year that was was under armor good they weren't as big as they are now they were like starting to compete um they're big but they were just like starting to compete um with the rock pushed them over but uh when i first signed i didn't want to sign with anybody uh that was like known and so i i first did my first brand partnership was with this softball company called boomba that was actually the year I led the league in Russian. I was actually sponsored by Bumba, but I couldn't wear their cleats that they made for me because the NFL didn't allow, they only allowed certain brands to, uh, to wear. So I had to wear nikes and spat. Because if you, if you, if you're a part of Nike, you can't spat. And so I wore nikes and spat. And, uh, yeah, so boombo was the first

brand. Like that was like, that was my best lucrative deal. They, they, they, they gave me bread. But This is because I was like a, you know, it was a big name and they were just trying to break onto this thing. If you had to go back and do it, like what, what company would you have wanted to get sponsored by right out the gate? I would have did what we started to do. I think we did it right. I just think it was a different era. And so like now people view athletes as a business and a brand as well. But back then, they were still just advertisements.

And so when we first started doing brand partnerships, me and my business. partner was kind of just it was it didn't get taken seriously and so like when brands would approach us we were like don't pay us give us equity yep and that was viewed as like what the fuck what are these kids on and uh there was a few companies that did it like there's one that does it now that didn't i think it's beyond meat beyond meat first came to us and we were like we don't want money like give us equity and they said no and i think later on they didn't give me equity to some some other uh brand partners um but i'm not i'm not really i think I think I did okay, man.

I wasn't really big on stuff. That would have been huge for you, though, if you had gotten equity in Beyond Meat. Yeah, it'd have been dope. It'd have been dope. Didn't 50 cent get like some outrageous percentage of vitamin water? Yeah. And then make like a billion dollars. Yeah, smart guy.

Mm-hmm. Damn. Smart guy. Yeah. But they, like I said, like early athletes, they didn't really view us like that. They didn't really view us like business partners. They were just like, shut up and take this money. Yeah.

here's $15,000 be here on time. Exactly. Billy, what you got going on right now? Anything you want to clean up from Monday's show? Let me think. Nuclear war? I need nuclear. Yep.

There we go. Clear. I don't like it. I like it better when Billy said nuclear. Yeah, but nuclear sounds weird. Nuclear. Nuclear. Nuclear.

nuclear yeah that's i mean george w bush used to say nuclear yeah well you know that's where i first heard it nuke nuclear it's nuclear war now watch his drive i'm terrorists yeah watch this drive it's one of the great clips of all time it really is it really is um big t you feeling you feeling good today i feel fine fine fine's good perfectly fine you lost to the fillies yeah that sucked Yankees up one. Yankees up one. We got MLB playoffs going on. NHL is starting again.

It feels way too early for hockey to start again. Hockey has no off season. It really doesn't. You blink at that about baseball. Well, baseball's off for six months, at least. Hockey finishes in June. The preseason starts back in September. It kind of sucks to win the Stanley Cup.

You don't really get much of a summer at all. I wouldn't know. Oh, yeah, I would. that summer of 2018 was rough It was tough I felt like I just spent the entire time partying And by the time I opened my eyes It's like oh man hockey season's back again

That sucked Hockey players like teachers Summer's off Yeah They are like teachers I get the baseball thing too Because if World Series ends And Halloween

And then pitchers and catchers report February 1st That's really not that long I feel like baseball players Get kind of screwed over Because they don't get summer They really don't enjoy summer Their all-star break is like two days

And there's not It's barely enough time to like Go somewhere and then fly back And they play a hundred and sixty two checks Yeah which is why so many baseball players I think show up Fucked up to games sometimes Or like still hung over You don't have time to do anything out

Yeah because they party occasionally This is what I want to talk about Have you guys seen Babe Ruth's diet? Yeah let's discuss Babe Ruth's diet I mean so where was this from So this was Um, other podcasts have talked about, you know, Winston Churchill's diet, like his day-to-day stuff or, uh, like Hunterst Thompson's diet. Uh, this, this podcast is a Babe Ruth diet stand. So this, this is pretty crazy. Uh, so this is the diet of Babe Ruth. Breakfast was a pint of whiskey mixed with ginger ale, then steak, four eggs, fried potatoes, and a pot of coffee. His afternoon snack was four hot dogs, each washed down with, a bottle of Coca-Cola back when Coca-Cola had the cocaine in it.

He had an early supper and a late supper, each the same. Two Porterhouse steaks, two heads of lettuce drenched with blue cheese dressing, two platefuls of cottage-fried potatoes, then two apple pies. In between the two suppers, he had four more hot dogs and four more bottles of Coca-Cola, remember, with the cocaine. All right, so the pint of whiskey, that's a lot of whiskey for breakfast. A pint is 16 ounces, or is it more? And the thing is, I don't think that that's the only whiskey he was drinking throughout the day.

Well, no, but let's, let's break that down. How many ounces in a pint? I think it's 16, right? Well, is it a pint of whiskey with ginger ale? Instead, a pint of whiskey mixed with ginger oil. Yes. 16 ounces in a pint. So that's a pint of Guinness.

That's like 12 shots or 11 shots or wherever. Because I think it's shot is, what, ounce and a half? How many ounces? 10 shots. That's bullshit. Right off the bat. I think that's bullshit. think that i think the whole thing is bullshit i don't think anyone could start out their day with 10

shots i think or hot dogs i do like so it's 10 it's it's 10 and two thirds yeah i like the idea of having a big breakfast i think i i neglect breakfast quite frequently but i always feel better and have a better day if i have just a giant breakfast yeah i don't know if you i looked at that video i sent you uh about that 104 year old woman she was getting interviewed and like you Like, what's your secret? And he's like, are you drinking a Dr. Pepper right now? She said, absolutely. Should I drink?

I drink three of them every single day. And he's like, isn't that bad for you? He's like, he said, two of my doctors told me it's bad for me. And they both die. Yeah, how to that, baby? I think everything in moderation, especially moderation. A 101 year old World War II veteran credits longevity to daily core's light. People forget that.

I like that. I also like the people that are just like, yeah. You know, I lived to be 117 by drinking three glasses of wine and smoking half a pack of cigarettes every day, smoking a cigar every day. My great grandma had, she lived to be 93, and she had her fridge for her regular fridge, and then she had a small fridge that was just for Coke. So the mini fridge had only coax in it. I love that.

It was goaded. I absolutely love that. Now, did the cocaine in those days, qualify like Babe Ruth to be on PEDs? Because there was cocaine in those Coca-Cola. I think cocaine is banned by the MLB bargaining. I think it's the era, the era that they played in. So is that the Coke era?

Yeah, but it's, it was legal back then. Right. So you can't, you can't use today's standards. I also think it was out by then. When did Coke, when the, I'm pretty sure there was cocaine still. Coke started in 1886, or, five, but it was only in there for like while the original Coke

formula had a significant amount of cocaine and it was quickly limited and by 1903 eliminated from the recipe. I'm not a drug user but I would love to try the original coke. I would do it once. Yeah, I would love to drink a Coca-Cola that had the original amount of cocaine in it. I think that'd be

a great time and then do a so we should do it Frank Tank, Soda Review. Original formula Coca-Cola with cocaine in it. How much cocaine was in one, like, bottle of Coke? Good question, mad dog. Billy? I'm not sure. Our guy Frank is hurt right now.

Oh. Yeah, he is. That picture is goaded. Frank is, Frank is, uh, thoughts and prayers to Frank. He needs to rest up. He will. How's your voice, Avery? It's not good.

Yeah, you need to rest up, too. I do, do. That was just from one hockey game? Uh, well, I was also in Baltimore this first one. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Baltimore will take your voice away. Baltimore is a great city. It really is.

rap I like Baltimore I like it a lot it's it's funny because it is you know the first game of the season for the fans too your voice needs some time to get into shape and also like the people on Reddit will probably like this too I won't be talking much on the podcast we were at I was at a bar last night watching the Guardians game and all of a sudden I was with some people from work and also McKenzie Lassano just starts screaming Avery and I was like is Avery with us in this room right now and you were just like like like next to the Guardian's Yankee's game on the TV. Just popped up.

I usually don't watch hockey. You'll probably just be on every ESPN Rangers game because I'm assuming they just have that camera set up in the same place. Yeah, the guy's like in the corner. He loves Avery. I think that guy stalks you. He might. Yeah.

I mean, you are a good looking kid. He always sees that lettuce and he's like this. I want to put that on TV. Yeah. You got a great head of hair, Avery. Cherish it well you can. I'll take it. Really, really lean into it.

Savor every moment that you have. Here's a touchy subject. With that flow. No, it's fine. I found out, Erin, I don't know if you saw the clip, but our own account posted this earlier today. Last week, I was walking into work, and my hair was kind of parted aside at the back

in an unfortunate angle, and somebody took a screenshot of it because there was a camera on me and sent the video screenshot to me. And I realized that. I'm starting to lose my hair in the back a little bit, which is tough as somebody with long hair. But I wanted to get out in front of it and at least just straight up like acknowledge it. This is happening so I can be prepared for it so that people don't think that they're catching

me if they see another unfortunate screenshot. It's at the point where I can still have a couple years of coverage, I think. It's not like there's a giant bald spot back there now, but it's thinning out a little bit. And so I'm going through all the stages of grief in my own mind of how I can get through this. There's like bargaining, acceptance, denial, all that stuff. And I think what's going to happen is I think I'm going to get the, Hank, very thankfully, reminded me that I'm rich now and I can afford to get a procedure done.

So I think I'm going to get the platelet rich injections, which just they just put more blood into your head, which will then grow your own hair back. So it's not like the hair plugs that they're going to be attaching that. I just want to get out in front of all of this and say this is what's happening. And if you are going through it out there, if you're going through your own hair loss journey, just know that I'm with you. It happens to a lot of guys. I'm 37. I'm sorry.

I had it when it mattered. Okay? Yeah, no, I'm thinning too, man. It happens, bro. We live, we grow, we die, and shit falls out in the process. Yeah. That's what it is, man. And Billy's looking at me like, see, this is just another way that PFT's body is completely shutting down on him.

I can take his job. I was, no, I don't want to take your job. I was the one who told you the solution you're actually going to do. Is that not right? The platelet rich? Is that what you're doing? I think, not the pills. I might try the pills.

I'm just worried about the pills. Okay. My mom's father never lost his hair. Good for him. He like was up to the end of it and he had cancer and I think he low-key refused chemo because he didn't want to lose his hair. He was like, I went this long, I'm going to die with it. Okay. So, stubborn man.

PFT, what's your thoughts on Old Bay? Oh, I love Old Bay. I think it's like one of the greatest things of all time. Yeah. In terms of like dry rub. Old Bay is fantastic. I was just saying because that was like my biggest takeaway from Baltimore is I had Old Bay dry rub wings and they were like.

Did you put godly? Did you have an Old Bay margarita while you're there? No. All right. Old Bay is fantastic if you put on the rim of Bloody Mary and you mix it a little bit into. the Bloody Mary too. Yeah.

Old Bay is like the best thing about Maryland, I think. And I'm not even saying that as a denigration to the state of Maryland. That's how much I love Old Bay. Yeah, why isn't it a big thing up here? It is. People from Maryland have to bring it up here and tell, like I think Avery's right.

It's not that big of a deal up here. It's not. Well, we just don't cover like, we don't have the dishes that they use it, but I know plenty of people who put it on scallops and use it like on all the fish. Yeah. Speaking of people that really like old bays,

Arian, have seen any milfs recently? Oh, okay. Oh, babe. No, man. You know, got a lady, but haven't seen any new melfs that, you know,

can trick me. So I'm just out here enjoying my little young thing. While I'm young and we're out here just being young. Yeah, we're all young. If anything should, if anything happens to that relationship, that is the pool. what we'll be dipping in for sure.

I like it. We're all out here just being young together. Like, look at us. We're all just, we're all youthful, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, full heads of hair. Loving it. Loving every second.

Well, see, okay, now I take issue with that sarcasm right there. Let me tell you why. Because all my peers, well, half of them. And it be the ones that be like, that don't really take care of themselves. They're like,

oh, man, we're so old. Listen, bro. Old don't happen until probably like I say, 55, 60. And even then, you still kind of, you can be kind of spry. But it's like a mindset. People get stuck in like the rat race and then there's like,

oh, I'm old or whatever. Like, dog, go talk to like a 70 year old or an 80 year old and be like, and tell them I'm 30 something. And they're like, oh, you're a baby. That's just how it's like, they look at us how we look at like 22 year olds when they're like, I feel old. We're like, bro, shut up. Like, that's how it is.

So it's like, there are, there's, I think there's an age where you get old, but like 30s is not it. 30s is like young but with bread. Like that's how I described 30s. Yeah. You young and you can do things that you wanted to do when you were younger. Yeah, I actually agree with you. I don't feel old at all.

I don't think that I'm old. I try to take care of myself. Christmas abs are back on. I think when you hit like your 50s, that's 50s are the new 40s. When we were growing up, it was like 40s is old, right? That felt old. Have you ever seen There's this clip that went viral

But it's like High school in the 80s Yeah They all They're like fucking 30 year old It's weird And I think I think it's just part of

How society grows It's like Like I don't remember 30 year olds Being as goofy as this Like they were all serious When I was growing up They were always so serious

Like I play hide and go sequel My kids I build forts with them My parents didn't do None of that shit Like I think the society's just changing. It's a younger mindset.

Go ahead, Billy, you chomping at the bit. Or it could be the microplastics destroying your endocrine systems. I wish I could go remotely mute you. I mean, I don't know. We should give, we should give Arian that capability. Like a shock calling.

I mean, I mean, everybody's supposed to look at me a soundboard, man. They look adult. I mean, there's, there's plenty of stuff that points of that. We should make a Billy soundboard. I know that Comtown did that one time with stuff. We should make a Billy soundboard.

it's like loki like I just read this study Anyways Like anyways Ariens cited a study You'll be hearing it soon All the greatest Billy His greatest hits

I want that on a sound board But I also cited the publication though I said from PubMed I cited science org Mm-hmm Earlier You did you did cite

Science No but I mean That's kind of a fact I mean The thing about The microplastics That's actually been studied I don't know

know enough about it man but look into it there's a reason why you know like if you look at like high schoolers or even the 90s they look different uh i've got some breaking news here no i don't never mind it's not real what it what was the fake news thank you for thank you for correcting before no i only hear the fake no no you're not going to get the fake news i'm going to find the fake news okay somebody tagged you in a thing am i in it i think you are i think you are tagged in it oh no you're It's just me and Big Tea that are tagged in it and the podcast. So I won't be saying it what the fake news was. But I saw that and I was like, what is it?

I was like, I can't wait to roast Big Tea about this. Wait a second. This sounds almost too perfect. I'm not going to do it. Hang on. Now I got to go find what it is. Aaron, I saw you're looking for a golfing street. Oh, did you fall for Richard G. West?

I didn't because I didn't say it. Oh, you dumb ass. Well, I'd never seen it before. And I just read it. That's a known fake troll account. To people in Tennessee. Yes. Okay. So I'm not a person. Oh, is that about the goalposts? Yes. Yeah, I saw that. I'm actually, I'm wearing this polo to support Tennessee. I'm actually really hyped for this game. Me too. He actually, he got these on threes Alabama podcasts. They read that and didn't realize it was fake. Yeah. It was one of those things that I think I've gotten pretty good at recently, which is you see a piece of news that like hits your brain in a way where it fulfills all your confirmation biases. tickles your brain you're really excited to bring it up anytime you see something like that

you should second guess what that news is because it's probably designed to do exactly what it's doing he has some that are very obviously fake but he has some that are good enough that like they get out into the mainstream and go kind of viral that one's not that one's like not that one's like not that bad so do you want bama i mean are we going to do this whole thing again yeah dude like no i i'm i'm going to buy you a cigar i'll be bringing in your cigar tomorrow and i want you to have that in case you do end up winning the game where are you going to watch the game we'll be in hoboken streaming you want to come uh possibly i'm going home it's my mom's birthday today happy birthday happy birthday mrs commenter so i'm going to go home and be a good boy a good son and i'm

going to i'm going to cook her dinner we have a big party on friday so i'll be coming back on Saturday, Saturday evening. Trave and I will be in Hoboken. The Tennessee Bama game, he's in Alabama grad that works here for those who may not know who he is, starts at 3.30. The Braves game, he's also a huge Braves fan, starts at two. So we're going to be streaming, watching both at the same time, and like, it's going to be weird because we're rooting for the same team on one TV

and then a bit of rivalry on the other. So it should be interesting. Oh, so breaking news. news, actual breaking news, Devante Adams was charged this morning in the municipal court of Kansas City with misdemeanor and assault. Good. Let's discuss. Arian, have you seen the clip?

I have not seen the clip. Send it to the group. Okay, yeah. Clip of what? I don't even know what's going on. After Monday night football, the players were leaving the field. The Raiders were obviously upset on the last play that the Raiders had offensively, Hunter Renfro ran in to Devante Adams and knocked him over.

before the pass could be thrown. So his own teammate kind of like knocked him down a little bit. And he was very frustrated because of the loss. And there's a team employee or an NFL employee that's walking by. It looks like they're doing some audiovisual work. And they stepped in front of Devante Adams, who then just shoved him to the ground, like very clearly pushed him and then just kept walking away from him.

And so I guess today, the cameraman or whoever he was has decided to press charges. So there's, I think, a warrant out for the arrest of Devante Adams in Kansas City. Also, to add insult to injury, Golden Tate leaked their playbook, leaked a play from the install. I'm not sure how he has it, but it showed that Devante Adams was supposed to get a mandatory outside release on that play. He got inside release on the cross corner, and that's why he bumped into him. Interesting. So the Hunter-Renfro slander.

he's got he's got defenders out there yeah but I don't know was Golden Tate on the was he on the roster is it criminal court or civil court I would almost guarantee it's civil I believe it is criminal criminal He's being charged with assault But I think the guy is so the so the guy is pressing charges Probably gonna drop them if he gets a bag

A fucking dweeb Yeah I ain't with that shit that shit corny hell, bro. Did you watch the video? Yeah, I mean, yeah, he wrong. You can't push people like that. But like, you're going, like, are you hurt for real, doggie? Like, did it cause you bodily harm? Or was you like,

come on, bro, that's fucked up. It's like, how many times you go to a club and you see pushing and shoving like that? It's just corny. You're going to take that man to court over this shit. You're fucking Karen. That's shit, Lane. What if he, what if he... I hate this shit? But what if the sound guy just, after getting shoved, just hit him with his boom.

Like, hit him with him. I don't know. If he has any kind of medical issues, yeah, pay for his medical shit. But that push was so light. I've highly, I'm 99% sure he didn't sustain any injuries. But he's going to claim he does and he's going to claim emotional distress. And after criminal, he's going to take him to civil and it's going to be a whole thing. And it's just a care. It's caring shit. I hate using courts as cudgels, using courts as like weapons to weaponize people. Because it's fucking cowardly, dog. It's just like a cowardly, I hate that shit to, because people, People take advantage of the court systems.

Like court should be for like real things. And this is the problem with our core system in general. I'm taking big teed off shit segment. Because it's like court should be used for shit that is actually that needs to be litigated. Like this does not need to be litigated. You're just a bit like you soft. Like I'm sorry. Like quote me.

I don't fuck. That shit is soft. But then what happens if you just turned around and clocked them with the sound equipment he was using? And like I like I said, there's a degree. reason which to be wrong he was absolutely wrong you don't you can't and you should not push people like that it was dumb that was a stupid thing to do but do you think he deserves to go to be criminally charged for the push bro get the fuck out of here it's ridiculous but then it's ridiculous but then let's say you just hit him on the head with the sound equipment what would we be saying like that guy should be

then we didn't we even no but then my father should not take him to court then we even this is like it's like it's like not everything deserves jail this is why our jails are over crowded in the first place. For the freest country in the world, we have the most people in prisons. It's because anybody can sue anybody for anything. And it's all on who has the better lawyers and it's all who can prove who's right or wrong. And it's all bullshit. Majority of the shit is bullshit. Drug offenses, dumb shit like this. It's dumb. It's stupid. It's dumb a shit in the world. I think the dude is probably pressing charges as a cudgel or as like a, as a bit of leverage to try to get maybe some sort of money out of it. Because I guarantee a civil court.

A civil case is going to follow. Devante Adams did apologize right afterwards, and I think he tweeted out too because he knew that he could be in some trouble and he might get suspended by the NFL as well, which that would make more sense, honestly, the suspension by the NFL because you can't have players pushing league employees or team employees on the sidelines. I think that would make more sense than actually pressing criminal charges. Like, does this guy actually want to see,

Devante Adams put in jail or like go through if he was smart what he would do he would wait until the wild card round of the playoffs I don't know what the statute of limitations is and then press the charges to make sure that he wouldn't be on the field maybe this guy bet against the Raiders and then he pressed the charges I'd be more forgiving of Devante Adams if it wasn't an employee if it was a fan I'd be like yeah fuck that guy running like let's say he was someone running on the field well actually he'd be in his total right to shove that guy but if it was

was like an opposing coach or someone who's actually trying to fuck with him this guy was just doing his job and he was just probably i'm not i'm not i'm not upset at the fact that like i'm not big enough devonta has to put out that was dumb like you can't just be pushing people i understand you you upset and what do but it's like that it is not warrant cops being called you know what i'm saying it's not warrant a court case bro like it's just be like like go up to the dude and be like yo i apologize it's my fault you're good bro I understand you just be a human

don't be a fucking dude I hate this thing is this dude like he's probably making I don't know how much a year that's what I'm saying you weaponizing it to try to get some bread

and that's even worse and now I'm like fuck him but if you were making so much and you had the opportunity to get like no I would not absolutely absolutely would not

absolutely I would not no bro I've had so many opportunities to fuck people over in court And I choose not to do so But if the money was right there Like all you had to do And someone else is going to deal with it

You didn't even have to go to court No because I have been taking the court over dumb shit That's just not true But if you didn't have that experience You probably think differently No I wouldn't It's suck a shit. This is like

It's just sucker shit dog It's like It's like the equivalent to snitching It's like that It's like we both doing dirt And I got caught So now I'm going it's equivalent

because it's like you didn't earn nothing to get any money out of that man. You didn't, are you didn't do anything? You were just wrong place, wrong time. You didn't earn no money, bro. This shit is dumb. All right. New situation. It's Karen shit. It's Karen shit. Let's say Karen Aaron bumped you with her car.

Oh, I'm not taking you to court. What do you mean bumped you with your car? Like, do you mean like ran you over? No, like no, but like not like aggressively. Like knocked you over, you're on the ground. Like let's say you're skateboarding and you were in the crosswalk and it was a stop sign. You just buzzed in and you bumped her and she hopped out

and started yelling at you. What does it got to do with money? But like you could easily civil court sue her. Explain to me what I have to do. But the money's right there. You and take it. What does it have to do with my? What does her bumping me have to do with money? Explain to me. Because by the law, you're entitled

to it. That's what I'm saying. Suck of shit. This is all we just cut different. Like go sue somebody for him. That's not me. I can't. It ain't me. There are very few people that I think I would sue I would sue somebody if they did something that caused me like lifelong damage maybe if there was something that made that made it made my life measurable measurably more difficult for me where I was going to like lose out on business opportunities or career opportunities because they impacted me in some way. I would sue somebody for that and then I would sue

Dan Snyder if I ever got injured at FedEx Field. I would sue the fuck out of Dan Snyder. I'm telling you, I regret so very deeply not purchasing a ticket to go to the Eagles Washington football team game last year when the stadium, that part of the stadium collapsed next to Jalen Hertz. If I had been in that section, I would have fallen on the ground. You would not see me outside of a wheelchair for five years. I'd be wearing a neck brace the entire time. I would milk the shit out of that and I would sue Dan Snyder and make him give me the team. That is my dream. And those people, those Eagles fans that were there, they're getting to live my dream. And I implore them to continue to sue Dan Snyder for that.

I hope, please, please, like, I would rather have a Philadelphia Eagles fan be the owner of the Washington commanders than Dan Snyder continue to owe the team. That's my dream scenario, actually. Yeah, Billy? Side note, I learn a new word. it's called pusillenanimus pusillanimus Can I guess what that means? What does it mean?

Does that mean like very giving or like benevolent? No, no, it means cowardly. Oh, well, I was wrong. Yeah, it's like, it's basically the definition of a pussy. Okay. But you can now say pussy with an eye and you're just calling them that for short.

So now I think we can use that word now. because that's what we're referring to. Yep. It's not sexist. So I'm now, abbreviated. Yeah, I'm now going. So, like, I'm online.

I'm going to start shooting those off and start using an eye and saying it. And no one can tell me. So I'm just short for pusillanimus. So that's P-U-S-I-L-L-A-N-I-M-O-U-S. Do an audio on the pronunciation of that. Yeah, let me find it. Because it is a, so we can call that guy a pussy. But like, pusillanimus.

Yeah, that's what I mean. meant. Here's the oh, wait. Puselanamus. Puselanamus. You, pucealanamus. You pucealanimus. Yes. Fancy. Puselanamus.

You pucealanimus. You pucealanimus. Pousalanimus. Yeah. So that's the new usage. So if anyone's like, oh, you're supposed to much. Well, I'm talking about pusillanimus. Got it. All right. Anything else? we want to get into how's everybody doing we want to talk scientology i want to i want to ask if there's anybody out there in houston area that knows golf like good though like it's a golf coach like high lap me because i've got the bug right now i'm playing like three times a week i'm shooting in the high 90s low 100s and i got to get better because um i'm doing like

self-correcting i'm watching a lot of golf videos and stuff so i I just need to get better. I know there's a lot of technical things I can work on. And I'm dedicated pupil. Ha'l at your boy. Okay. The word is out there. There was one other thing I wanted to get into, though.

Yeah. Billy is trying to get to the bottom of what's going on in the Russia-Ukraine war. The war of Putin's aggression, as I'm calling it. But Billy has tapped into some of his intelligence sources online. He waded into the foray between Elon Musk and national security. writer, Ian Brimmer. Yes. So Brimmer put out a report a couple days ago saying that Elon Musk had told him that he was

in conversation with Vladimir Putin regarding the desires and the red lines that Russia had in this war. And he had talked to Putin before Elon Musk had put out his, or excuse me, Elon Musk had these conversations with Putin before Elon himself put out his roadmap to peace. in Ukraine. So a lot of people were suggesting that Elon Musk was just putting Putin's desires and really his, what, ransom list you could say? Yeah. Out into public and saying that it was Elon's idea. Now, Elon replied to Ian Brimmer and said, do not trust Ian Brimmer. Nobody should trust Bremer. Nobody should trust Brimmer. Now, Brimmer is from what I've read about him. And he does

follow me, by the way. So you want me to DM him? Can we get him on the podcast? I'll DM him. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, who is this? Who follows you? He's a, Ian Bremmer has a substack. I'm pretty sure it's a substack they sends out and he's a high, a very well-informed, you know, political, geopolitical, like he knows everything about the world in geopolitics and international relations. He knows everything about the world. He's a political scientist. He's a, I think he's a Columbia professor. and basically he has a very fair and balanced. I think that's fair to say, unless from what I've heard,

fair and balanced, a substack. He's well regarded. I don't know if he leaned one way or the other. I think he doesn't. What is it? What is a substack? It's like a,

it's like a Patreon, but it's only a newsletter. It's for journalists. They can write stuff and you can subscribe to them independently. And only fans of journalism, if you will. I like that. Yeah.

I like that more. Another great example of. capitalism. Yeah, it's a good business model, I think, as more and more publications have really bitten the dust because they don't know how to scale and they're struggling to figure out how to balance ad revenue in like the online world where everything is given away for free with paying people for quality journalism. So a lot of journalists are just going their own route, going independent, so you can get directly from me, pay me to directly to provide this reporting to you directly. So it's kind of

of cool. Um, but Ian has, uh, has been kind of roasting Elon, implying heavily that he's a puppet, that Elon is a puppet for Vladimir Putin. Putin doesn't like that. So, or Elon doesn't like that. So then Billy, uh, you, uh, you asked a question. Yeah. So basically I asked, you know, could you please, you know, give some more information? Because I'm also trying to get, uh, Elon to respond to me. You remember you gave a bounty $1,000 if he responds. And plus being an Elon Musk reply guy. I did. Yeah, Billy can get a reply back from Elon Musk and a thousand bucks. Like a lot of people who, you know, were Trump reply guys, they gained a lot of following.

So I may be doing some social growth work. Okay, you should set up notifications. I do. I have it. Put up notice for him. So I said like, so nobody should trust Bremer. I responded like trust him with stuff said in confidence. So what he says is true, but don't trust him to keep a secret or trust him to not tell

everyone what I heard from Putin or like trust what he's saying is true so I mean there's various ways you can interpret that so if I tell PFT a secret like Big T told me that his desires are Tennessee to win and then PFC says oh a big T told Billy that Tennessee is going to win and then or is it don't trust him because he's just lying about something I said. said, which I didn't say. So there's a lot of ways to interpret it. And I kind of think it's the former where he doesn't trust Big T, he doesn't trust Big T, uh, PFT to keep a secret. Because I kind of think that Elon Musk is getting threatened by all of like the, uh, KGB Russian mob, like everybody right now. Because think about it. Those guys, if you ever seen Icarus like Russian hitmen like are

out there, former KGB, former Russian special forces. And if there's a hit on you, it's like a whole list it's like a craigs list and there's tons of hitman across the world they're like oh you know like for me to go snipe you know let's say Elon Musk's on his yacht and he goes shows his big white figure bag of milk figure out in the sun like that's an easy target that's an easy you know five million for that's way better than my red army uh uh pension yeah so so he's got he's got a lot of people that are looking to do his bidding yeah so i like if musk is talking because think about it he was he's doing starling for the ukrainians he's tried to give as much support for the cranes as he can but i think you know putin might be like hey dude like i keep richer dudes than you in check in russia

like i can keep you in check too like you tweet anything about this or mention anything about this i'll kill you type thing that's just a theory don't don't you don't you take anything i say with as truth uh because i'm just a dude who's on the internet too much that's great that should be your bio just a dude that's on the internet too much that's a good bio i do like that yeah uh what about star or not star link um Nordstrom anything new about Nordstrom uh they think they blew up something in poland who did the russians that wait there were a lot of pronouns there they think they blew up something in Poland who is the first They?

They is this Twitter account I follow. Okay. That is apparently trusted. Apparently trusted. That was great use of that. That's the Billy stamp of approval, apparently trusted. The passive voice was doing a lot of work on that. It's not even trusted by you, but it's allegedly trusted by someone else.

By a Reddit. Okay. Okay. A Reddit subsections thinks it's, okay. You pull back the layers on any sentence that Billy utters and you, you really start to get into some shit. Let me, let me find this. You just scratch on the surface a little bit.

Latest. Yeah. They think it's a false flag. Again, let me find this part. Yeah. Yeah, I can't find the exact tweet. That was the last thing I saw. Something about Poland in a pipeline.

there. Okay. All right. So something about a polling in a pipeline is going on right now.

Who knows? People think it's just from TikToks. I'm getting any of this information, but honestly,

it's more from Reddit, Twitter, and a bunch of much more trustworthy sources. Yeah. You should name

your daughter information. I actually still have people will call her misinformation. Yeah. Well, I still have

a subscription to national affairs from college. So I read that sometimes. okay so that's pretty cool anyway anyway um so that's that's our ukraine update with billy we had anything else or do you want let's talk some scientology because we've got a great

interview coming up um i'm fascinated with colts i think some other people in this room are also they have a morbid curiosity with them i'm obsessed really with finding out how people get their minds controlled and the different emotional levers that get pulled and pressed and how effective they can be and really the entire strategy. And I've talked about it a little bit on this show about how I tried to get recruited by what some European countries would call a cult when I went to the landmark forum. And it's interesting because we're going to talk with this guy in a little bit. His name is Mike Rinder. And he started using the word technology. I guess all people in in Scientology, they refer to their system of beliefs as their technology, which imparts

a sense of importance on it, or like a sense of, like, what's the word I'm looking for, factualness, a sense of authenticity, authenticity, a sense of importance, if they call it like, this is our technology. The landmark forum used to call their stuff their technology, too. So I thought that was interesting that he brought that up. but I like to imagine that I don't think I really don't think I could be brainwashed I think that I'm unbrainwashable and I would invite anybody out there

Big T, try to brainwash me Are you saying I should try to brainwash him or then? No, no, like, do you think I'm brainwashed Big T? Are you brainwashed currently? Yeah. No, I think you have some bad ideas but you're not brainwashed. I think you're a little bit of a sucker for some things.

What am I a sucker for? I mean, hey, therapy talk. Let's go. Macrodose and therapy talk. Let's get it. No, but I think there's some talking points that you're a sucker for that like totally juxtapose some of your other beliefs. What am I, what talking points am I a sucker for?

Let's go. Let's go. I actually know of one. Do this shit. Hunter Biden. No. Big pharma, but you're not a fan of like big corporations and stuff. I'm not a fan of big pharma.

Well, like, for the same guy. Yeah. Yeah, you're a big Vax guy. I'm not, I'm without a doubt not a fan of big, big pharma. I've been a, I've been a hater of big pharma since you were just a glint in your father's eye. Do you buy Pfizer stock a year or two ago? I have zero Pfizer stock. You seem like you might be, you've been riding for them.

I have, I have no stock in any pharmaceutical companies in the entire, unless you consider Dogecoin to be pharmaceutical. Because it's basically, basically just a drug that you, never mind. All right, we're going to get into some Scientology talk. It's brought to you by Three Chi. Three Chi offers premium THC products. They get delivered straight to your door, including dispensary grade Delta 9 THC, with the same effects as traditional marijuana, it's hemp derived, making it federally legal and that much easier to get your hands on.

And the best part is that Three Chee is giving Barstool listeners an exclusive 5% off all products. Use code Stool5 at 3C.com, experience cannabis perfected now. You must be 21 to purchase. that is three chi baby i'm not a drug guy but i am a three chi guy love three chi they sent arian some three chi have you tried it yet arian you're muted my bet uh no i have not tried it yet um i will definitely try it try the three chi and give a three chi review because i think that you'll like i will absolutely do but i cannot do it just yet yeah he just got it he just got it in the mail um so let's talk some scientology real quick and then we're going to get to our interview with mike render

I think you guys will like that. Fascinating stuff. So Scientology, I love all the stories that come out about Scientology. It's like an instant click for me if there's a documentary or if there's an article in the news about Scientology and somebody like getting out and the different lawsuits that they file. And it's just fascinating to me because it's run by a guy that I think it was, well, it was started by a guy, Elron Hubbard, that had a God complex.

And now the guy that's running it, David Miskavage, he definitely thinks that he's God, too. The whole story of Scientology almost reads exactly like animal farm with Elron Hubbard becoming, I forget the exact pig's name. I should have had it ready. But then with this new guy who's now taking it over in the same culture of compliance that occurs around it. And it's fascinating. So who was El Ron Hubbard, Billy? Elron Hubbard was a former naval veteran who was a pretty decent science fiction writer. And unfortunately, science fiction writing didn't pay the bills.

But in his words, writing science fiction for about a penny is a word is no way to make a living. If you really want to make a million, the quickest way is to start your own religion. El Ron Hubbard. And so he did. so he he uh he kind of turned his his uh science fiction writing into the building blocks of that religion like people liked some of his his books and he was like okay i'm going to if these suckers like that i'm just going to tell him that it's true there there were uh rumor well he's from the west he grew up in helena montana and studied the george washington university in washington dc's

they're said that his experience with Mormonism early on in the beliefs of Mormonism may have actually helped inspire him to be like, I can be John Smith. Yeah. That sounds, I mean, there's actually a lot of links between Mormonism and Scientology from my point of view in that Mormons believe in a space involved dogma, whereas Scientology also involves aliens, planets, just the same as some parts of Mormonism. And that sort of may have been his first inspiration to start his own religion. A good rule of thumb is if anybody approaches you and says, hey, you know that one thing that

you've been really struggling within your life, I'm the person that can save you. I have all the answers to that. Just trust what I say, and we're going to figure that out. So that's kind of what Scientology is all about. What they do is they pray on people because we're all people. We're all flawed. We all have our insecurities deep down inside. And if they get somebody to discuss these insecurities and they make you feel more insecure about them and they say, well, I can help you overcome that.

Look at me. Look at us. We exist on a plane of understanding and a plane of living our lives without these bad thoughts. or bad issues that you might have, all you have to do is become like me and do all the things that I did to get there and you'll be happy. That should be a major red flag.

If somebody, if a religion is like promising you complete and total happiness and an escape from everything that's plaguing you, that is somebody that should not be trusted to actually run any sort of, any sort of spiritual reckoning. And much of the theories that hovered came up with came after his problems returning from world war two he was writing he was a writer before

world war two and served in the navy in which really left him scarred he saw a little action not sure how much because where the legend ends and the truth begins is something that sort of wasn't too clear with hubbard's military service but it eventually caused him to publish dionetics in 1950, which was his first way of trying to sell a certain type of psychology, almost self-help that he used on himself to improve his own mental state after coming back from war. And Dianics is pretty weird. He basically was sort of publishing a pseudoscience that was pretty perpendicular to a lot of what was currently being studied.

And he was trying to basically have all these cell books, you know, his other books weren't selling, so he was going to try to create something that he tested and used his methods to study to really find out. Okay. Have you guys ever encountered a Scientologist? No, I took a class on them in college, but... Do you teach a class on Scientology? Did you bring your notes?

No. Wait. I bet I saw my notes in my Google Drive. I'll look real quick. Yeah, you should check it that out. It was a Doomsday Colts class, but we had, like, a whole unit on Scientology. It was a sick class.

I've talked about that. What is the current membership number? I saw 25,000 somewhere. That's, that's weak. It wasn't a lot. They're going extinct. I talk a shit about the gang size. I do think, yeah, they're losing, they're losing a lot of corners.

I'll put it that way. I think that they need a rejuvenation. Scientologists need to find somebody to connect with the youths of America. Dude, some TikTokers, I bet you could get brought into Scientology real easily. Oh, yeah. Really, really easily. I wonder if there's any Scientologists, TikTokers currently.

There's a bunch of headcases that are getting famous for being on TikTok that have no real discernible talent that are going to be looking for some deep answers for a lot of their own insecurities in like a year or two. I bet you, if Scientologists were smart, if they want to bring me aboard to run their marketing department. Yeah, you start investing in like 19 year old TikTokers right now. Scientology needs to get into the influencer marketing. So Scientology targeted, we get to it a lot in the interview, but there's a reason why there's so many celebrity Scientologists is because there's tons of a lot of misguided youth who end up in L.A. who are looking for their next big

break and looking for their next way to break through. And the newest types of those people heading to L.A. are TikTokers. I saw it in the saddle. It's just set up shop right in front of the the saddle ranch, whatever, where they all hang out and you'll definitely get some people to sign up for Scientology. But it's a very fascinating religion. And honestly, there's no way to really summarize the whole story, like the whole mythos of Scientology. Like, it's even easier to sort of describe Mormonism about John Smith, the last Israelites, the lost tribe of Israel that was found in northern New York. Whereas Scientology, basically in order to know the religion and why many Scientologists tell you to read a book when you ask what Scientology is

about is because in order for them to get indoctrinated, it takes tons and tons of reading. And it's crazy, but like we could highlight some pretty out there beliefs that will give you a gist of what we're talking about. Okay. There's a galactic confederacy that runs the universe. Everything you know about the universe is untrue because while you're reading up about the Milky Way and gravity proven scientific concepts, Elron Hubbard is dropping knowledge about the galactic confederacy and their control of earth. Scientologists believe that like the UN in such fictional organizations the Federation of Planets Empire First Order or Spacing Guild, the Galactic Confederacy is a collection of planets that work together to govern the universe. So that's a key

tenant of their belief system. I mean that does sound like it sounds like episode four of Star Wars? Yeah. Or is, I can't figure out now. Episode one, right? Episode three is when there's the Galactic Confederation and Darth Maul, Darth Sidious comes into place.

There's one where it's like, okay, we're going to get together in this entire movie is going to be about taxes and shipping lanes. Yeah. That sounds like whatever this is. Fun fact, in that scene of the whole Confederation, there's actually E.T.'s in there. Oh, that is crazy.

Yeah. another crazy fact is heaven is based on Pasadena. Elron Hubbard admits that he was never a fan of the idea of heaven because it sounded kind of corny. Then he had a revelation. After some soul searching, he is believed to have remembered that not only had he been to heaven, but everyone has been to heaven and our implants simply wipe it from our memory, more in our implants. If you want to get a good idea of what heaven looks like, you just have to hop on California's state route two. It's believe Scientologists think that heaven has the

appearance of Pasadena. Let me tell you, I've watched a couple UCLA games this season with like 1,400 people there. If that's heaven, we're in trouble. Yeah. Well, it might be because it's such a nice place that they want to do anything except for go to football games.

That is true. They're competing for a lot of other activities with people's time. Yeah. Grand daddy of them all. I think that, have you ever played there? Mm-hmm. What was it like? It was cool. It was cool. I actually liked cows.

stadium better. I would play the Cal my junior year. I think I like that one a little better. I think being in the stands in Pasadena might be better than being on the field. Maybe. The allure, Cal was loud as shit. Cal was way loud and I thought it was going to be, but the allure of it being the Rose Bowl was really dope because you grow up you know, thinking that was like,

to me, that was the one ball game that I always wanted to play it was the Rose Bowl. If heaven was a city, what city do you think you would choose? Or what city on earth do you think is is the one that you could base your model of heaven off of. I'm going to say Barcelona. I've never been, but I've heard Santa Barbara is awesome. Okay.

Arian, have you been? Santa Barbara, yeah. Would you say it's heavenly? I've heard awesome things about it. San Diego. Oh, San Diego's good. Isn't UCSB like the most crime-ridden college in the country? I think just, I don't know the answer to that, but it sounds like a cool place to go to school.

Aren't they the banana slugs? No, that's UC Santa Cruz. They're the gauchos. The gauchos. Oh, you know what? I would choose New Orleans. I think New Orleans would be my heaven. Gross.

Because, well, in my idea of heaven, there's certain elements of hell that you're allowed to, that you're allowed and encouraged to do. And so that's New Orleans. So why not just Vegas then? Vegas is way cooler than New Orleans. No, no. Vegas is too artificial. Yeah, it's synthetic. New Orleans, I think, is, and there are some synthetic parts. It's like actually dirty and disgusting. It's not dirty and disgusting. New Orleans is a beautiful place filled with amazing culture, great food, friendly people, good vibes. Las Vegas. What's your beef with New Orleans, bro? That sounds personal. I've never been. I've just seen that it sucks. Also, the saints are there. Yeah, that's what it is. He's a Falcons fan. Who might detest. but it seems yucky. It's fun. It's underwhelming.

I'd said Bourbon Street was a little underwhelming. So there was, so another one of their beliefs was in Zeno, an ancient ruler. Zeno, an alien galactic ruler who was king of the planets. Zeno knew that the galaxy was faced with overpopulation. So he did the one thing that made sense. He got together all the available space psychiatrists and had them inject some of the universe's inhabitants with a substance that immobilized

them. After that, he had their bodies loaded into space planes that looked exactly like DC-8s and flew them to earth. He then proceeded to drop the paralyzed bodies of his constituents around the series of active volcanoes which he then blew up with a hydrogen

bomb. I love that. Even though... Wait, when was this? 75 million years ago. We had an H-bomb? We did and Zeno did. And he bombed volcanoes that are names that also, by our geological records, did not exist 75 million years ago. But if you ask a Scientologist about that, which they probably don't even question it with each other because of the restriction of sort of mind control they do, which is pretty uniform with tons of cults, that's just told you by wogs, which are people who aren't in Scientology, that. to disprove Scientology because there's a global conspiracy against Scientology

by psychologists who are trying to fight against the rival true world-saving, soul-saving, you know, purpose that is Scientology. The religion version of they hate us because they ain't us. Yes. But when these... Wait, wait, hang on. I also sound like a knockoff Thanos, too. It does.

I've got some I've got some breaking news real quick. Is this real? This is real news. Breaking absolutely astronomical figures in the Info Wars lawsuit out of Connecticut. Alex Jones owes $229 million. Oh my God.

To just the first three plaintiffs, all family members of Sandy Hook victims. There are nine more plaintiffs to go. Alex Jones, this is from one underscore, Ben Collins. Alex Jones makes an enormous amount of money, but not this much, more and more 30 plus million dollar judgments being

read right now. This might be the death knell for info wars. Might be. Breaking a Connecticut court rules Alex Jones owes Sandy Hook victims over $1 billion. Oh my God. Fuck you, you

pussy piece of shit. Pussillanimous. Yes, what I mean. You puce? Pus salanimous piece of shit. Good for those families. Alex Jones. I mean, they won't get a dollar.

Probably not. He's going to go, well, they're going to take everything that he has. Right. Alex Jones will die poor. He's going to be like homeless. That's dangerous. That's, we actually, that's what. All right.

So we should consider this real quick because I think that he deserves all the bad things to happen to him and none of the good. But Alex Jones with his with absolutely nothing to lose is a dangerous. That's a cornered. wild rabid animal he's michael scott paper company i have no shortage of names yeah the alex jones news company what if i i invented a new supplement it makes you two shades redder Alex jones should go to like after he gets killed and joe rogage just keep him in a cage in his studio like a dog chained up just for sound bites it would make good content it would be hilarious content but i think that's the only but he doesn't get paid for it

Yeah, but that's how he's got to survive. Okay, back to, sorry, Billy, I hate to interrupt, but that's big news. That is big news. He deserves every bit of it. No more chilly. When you get taken down that bad and you literally have nothing and every money you make gets taken away, like how do you survive? I mean, he's going to be able to get a job, but. But then all that money has to.

I'm not exactly sure. I think like every dollar you make. It's a percentage. Yeah. Isn't that what's happening with O. That's what happened with OJ in his book with the civil suit. Yeah, but that was also because it was related to the crime. I think they limit any profits that you can make about that.

But anyway, sorry, so Scientology. Yeah, so these, these, so basically these paralyzed bodies got blown up by an atom bomb. When they got blown up, they just attached to all the humans. And I love how like, you're an intergalactic species that has all these powers and like, all you got is like an atom bomb like you don't got nothing better like that shit's trash well actually i think it's a hydrogen bomb hydrogen bomb yeah so come on give zeno my bad zeno my bad zino i thought you just had a regular old Einstein came over that shit yeah so it's very weird and these sort of alien ghosts that go through uh everybody so like all of our human souls are programmed

with false information so have you wondered why so many different cultures were able to create the same god devil savior mythology uh this is because the comparative mythology was caused by these zinu bodies that their souls after they were blown up float into the sky were captured by sticky electronic beams and then taken to special theaters there the souls were showed 3d images that programmed misleading information in their being like the concept of god the devil and christ after the programming their souls flowed back to earth and took up residence inside our bodies and gave people the seemingly false ideas of other faiths. So those alien ghosts, after being blown up by hydrogen bombs and volcanoes that didn't exist

at the time period they said they did, were then taken up back to space where they were sat in a theater and just programmed in a theater with like a projector that these themes that are common in all religions, most Abrahamic religions, then, took those back to Earth and programmed all the humans with them. Very, very convincing that there's space theaters. Do you think, yeah, that is very funny. Space movie theaters. Do you think they probably play Avatar?

You think that the guy that are the group of people that wrote the Bible? Do you think they had any training and doing science fiction as well? Huh. They're not as inventive. That's what I say. If this dude wasn't like a dweeb, he'd have wrote some dope-ass shit. like for movies well that's right

he probably did write a whole bunch of cool shit honestly we should we should have watched Battlefield Earth with John Travolta yeah

because some I think some of his science fiction did sell like I used to read a little science fiction but some of it was just like like the classics

like I robot and whatnot but I actually that was Ivan Asmoth yeah Michael Crichton

is my favorite science fiction writer Congo check it out It's a really good Yeah also a good movie Congo I think is better I love Congo That I wouldn't mind

A remake of Congo Oh they should definitely That was a great movie Maybe not great But the laser beam The laser beam part got a little weird I'm not going to do any spoiler Because I want people watch it

But And now You definitely just spoiled it in man Just laser be Yeah fuck It's from the 80s Right That's like 90s

Like, maybe. Okay, 30 years. Wow, the nice was 30 years ago. Damn. Where were we? Those, yes, those ghosts that got programs now inhabit all of us. The only way to get enlightened and improve humanity and get rid of all the bad things that are wrong with you, be it your anxiety, your depression, your inadequacy, your insecurity, was Elron Hubbard's way through some types.

of didactics. Wait, what was it called? Dynatics, some types of dionetics. Dionetics. And e-meters, technology that Elouin Hubbard had discovered and was going to take you to enlightenment. And one day

you'd go amongst the stars and return to the home planets as those ghosts who were thrown into the volcanoes came from. Okay. And there you'd be fully enlightened in happiness. and those spirits that were inside you had lived throughout history.

So Elron Hubbard thought that in a previous life, he was Cecil Rhodes, one of the founders of apartheid. So not a really good guy. He also thought he was Julius Caesar in a past life. Jesus. And he thought that through a lot of manipulation, you could remember things from your past lives. And those core tenants were really your troubles of throughout history.

history. So it's kind of appealing if you're like, like, gollable. Yo, I was, I don't know, in a past, like, who would you want to be in a past life? A past life, I would like to be, I think I would be pretty good as somebody that just got shipwrecked for a while on a desert island. Robinson Crusoe. I would like to be Robinson Crusoe, yeah. Or someone. And so actually some of these, and they're mentioned in Mike Rinder's book some of these tactics that you developed are kind of hilarious. One of them was called

bull baiting. I think we should kind of maybe do it live. But because of the reactive brain, which was a big element of the dionatics Dynex. One of the programs they used to do was called bull baiting. And this was to train their mind to be non-reactive. So it was basically

saying ridiculous things. They basically, this was a big one for kids they put them in a room sit them right next to each other like pfd and i facing each other and you'd have to just say the most outlandish things of any type of reaction and the other person had to not react got it so Twitter I think in person Twitter yeah just like don't get triggered just don't react like anyway no laughing no crying no just like it's basically that viral video of like the two dudes saying lame jokes and not trying to make each other laugh, but like you could say anything. Yep. You say all sorts of things. All right, Billy, back into your

research and then we'll get to the interview with Mike Render. Actually, Billy, tell you what, you know what I'm doing? What's you up to? I'm actually going to go to the gym right after we're done recording this. It's not a brag. It's a fact because we are doing Christmas abs. A lot of people are into the Christmas abs movement. I know. I'm getting a lot of inspired to go. Yeah, I'm getting a lot a lot of positive feedback from the macrodotions out there love you guys thank you for for jumping on board the christmas abs movement um i have a long way to go two bad visuals and i don't mean to like harp on on negativity and i know i've talked about my body breaking down through some injuries that i've had recently an unlucky month i'm a positive guy i like to think i'm in pretty

decent shape overall there's some things i need to tweak like all of us we could all use some improvement. A video came out where I was being the you at Rutgers because they didn't have a you or the you guy was late. And it was during a break in the action where they were going to the sidelines and Brandon Walker was giving away a TV. Somebody asked me, there was the Rutgers people in front of me with their chest painted to say Rutgers. They were missing a you. And one person's like, oh, where's there a you? We don't have you. And I was like, me, I started to the point. They're like, get up here, be the you. So I was the you. I took my shirt. off and there was there's a little bit of an overlap coming over the waistband right now you know

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just to think. Concrete fuels your body and mine. I love concrete. I actually just took it right during our break. Take control of your health, both modity and mind, build a better you with concrete. Register now at Concrete.com dash podcast. That's C-O-N-C-R-E-T dot com forward slash podcast. Receive free membership to plant fitness for an entire year plus a $500 Walmart visa gift card. Available now online in-store at Walmart. Concrete is truly a life-changing and performance enhancing. I love

concrete. I actually been doing it all the time. The best thing is working out back-to-back. you like I can work out four days a week straight and then work four days of weight training and then cardio and I've been only been able to do that with concrete because I don't have the muscle soreness like that's a fact so I can play basketball twice a week lift four times a week one rest day and that's how I roll and it's literally like I wouldn't be able to do that

if wasn't for concrete I'd be walking around after leg day like dying not being able to jump or play any type of sport that's not how Billy rolls yeah couldn't do without concrete Thank you, Concrete. I will be taking concrete. I will be getting Christmas abs. Or at least, at least two abs. I mean, have two abs by Christmas. That means that I will have lost some weight, some body fat. Please. So I just want to list off some famous Scientologists because we talked about how they are so involved with celebrities. Kirstie Alley, Annie Archer, Catherine Bell, Nancy Cartwright, Erica Christensen, Chick-Corps. Nancy Cartwright. She does the voice. of, I want to say, Bart on The Simpsons. I don't want to screw that up. Nancy Cartwright, she's definitely a voice actor on The Simpsons.

And I think, Chef from South Park, Isaac Hayes, he was a Scientologist. And I think it led to a gigantic falling out between him and Trey Parker and Matt Stone. And I think he was a guy that, like, got kidnapped, low-key by them. Nancy Cartwright? No, Chef from South Park. Oh. Oh, Isaac Hayes. Huh.

Yeah, she is the longtime voice of Bart Simpson on The Simpsons. Damn, good pull, PFT. Thanks, everyone. I'm going to be honest, I don't know a lot of these people. Thanks, Avery. As we get into later in the interview, most of these people join in the 70s. Tom Cruise, Jason Doering, Jenna Alfman, Dougie Fresh. Isaac, is that real?

Dougie Fresh. Dougie Fresh, he was a musical artist, yeah. Okay, Isaac Hayes, Vivian Kubrick, Atlanta Masterson, Christopher Masterson, Danny Masterson, Elizabeth Moss, Giovanni, Rebisi, John Travolta, Greta Van Susteren, Katie Holmes, Akul Kidman, flirted with it, Brad Pitt, took some preliminary classes, and so did Jerry Seinfeld. So, yeah, a ton of big names. Pretty much everyone in Hollywood either knows somebody who's in Scientology or at one point looked at a pamphlet. I'm going to be honest, one of the bartenders when we were out in L.A.

at the Super Bowl was a Scientologist. Oh, really? Yeah, I actually just now remembering that. He was, so I was like talking, I was at the bar and I was like, yeah, man, like, you know, is it true that everyone in Hollywood's like a Scientologist? And the guy at the bar was like, yeah,

but it's not what you think. They have a lot of resources. I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like, I was like, oh, really? Like, how do you know? And he's like, well, I'm actually a Scientologist myself. And I was like, oh, shit. did he try to convert you actually you were there too it was at the the basement bar it was at the

hotel we were at okay that first night we got there yeah yeah that bartender was a southector oh i was just there for a little bit unlike you the first night that we got there i went to sleep because we had work to do i just finished driving lots of miles okay i was blown off steam yeah so it sounds like you really got to know this bartender pretty well the mountains are actually more blue in California especially after you drive many miles yeah so

that's wild bill too yeah that was wild bill West the Rockies that's the Scientologist Wild Bill might be a Scientologist Okay so honestly I want to I want to try to become a Scientologist I think

I want to know the secrets like I want to know there's a there's a I don't like calling it a church but there's one of their buildings on it's like 40 fifth street or something it's right it's right next to the theater that hamilton's i'm gonna come actually i'm gonna come actually realistically you should just read that book so it gives up all the secrets okay all the cool ones billy did read this book by the way the book by mike render a billion years my escape from a life in the highest ranks of scientology with her upcoming

guest uh billy read the entire thing cover to cover yeah i i did kind of kept me out i couldn't really sleep last night basically when i always get a good book and then like i don't sleep because I'm just reading it and then I'm just get obsessed with it a little bit of obsessive compulsive but with that

there's also tons of technology that Hubbard made that he claimed was like supposed to see your alien ghosts and like test out your true

intentions and it was called the e meter and it basically it's supposed to work like you know what

there's those machines that run electricity through different like potatoes and stuff that transmits electricity it sort of runs like that and like gives you a reading

based on that yeah with a potato thing you can just build a battery out of the potato yeah so that's I think kind of how the actual technology works

but it basically this e meter is easy to convince people because it's like one of those things like almost like a Ouija board where you can always denounce something from whatever it's reading

It's not something like a lie detector where it could like actually like just detect something actual measurably. Yeah. And I've also heard that they inject you with niacin and some other things. And then if your skin gets flushed, they say these are all the bad chemicals inside you that are rushing to the surface. But it's just niacin. Niasin's wild. Yeah. It's a really good active ingredient red bull.

But one of the big things is, you know, Hubbard was basically. running a Ponzi scheme of sorts who's getting a bunch of people pyramid scheme to read his books keep buying new materials to like get the next the next chapter of Scientology

at one point he was running into different problems with the law he had to hop on a boat for a time hop around the Mediterranean everyone who lived on there were called the Sea Org and basically he the craziest part about Scientology is that it did at one point become tax exempt. Before 1967, because it was a religion,

they had a tax exempt status. In 1967, the IRS then figured out that it was one of these things that the guy, it was like a fraud. So they took away the tax exempt status because a lot of the money was being funneled to Hubbard. They targeted alcoholics and drug addicts who were supposed to partake in their Narcanon Foundation, which is basically converting alcoholics and drug abusers to Scientologists and basically getting them clean through the power of Scientology, which is a great recruitment tool when you think about it. And that was in 1966. The Sea Org was established when they took away their tax exempt status so they could really operate without a nation, bounce around to several different countries, one of them being Portugal, where the Portuguese started to think that the C.orgs, which was all of Hubbard's seamen, were part of the CIA. So at that point, the C men. The C men. Well, the C.org, the C organization, which was basically made up by various seamen.

Yes, which Hubbard put together from the most devoted Scientologist. It was kind of a sweatshop of sorts. but with that Hubbard returned to America at one point he was hiding out in Queens and just sort of

projecting messages from afar the people around him were called messengers and basically this is how he ran his huge empire it was sort of very interesting

in like the way he ran his empire, anyone who got too close to him and basically the highest-ranking Scientologists always got capped in some sort. They always got denounced from the church because they were supposed to reach this level of enlightenment. That's why they're all climbing the ranks to reach the final level of enlightenment and almost get parallel to Hubbard. And as soon as they got closer and closer, they always started to realize, like, wait a second, this might be bullshit. And that's when Hubbard would take him out. One of them was Mary Joe, who's the head of

the financing of one of the entities and this continued until Hubbard died and Hubbard had several heart attacks. He was an avid smoker, but he thinks that he died of lung cancer because he didn't smoke enough. I love that. Yeah, that's what you think caused his lung cancer. That dude rocks. That dude's rock. That's rock. That's fucking cool. Like you get the first heart attack. He's like, well, I better switch to Reds. Then you get two more. Something's going wrong. All right, I'd tear the filter off. Give me a hookah. I say what you want about Elron Hubbard,

but that's fucking cool. I believe he's also credited with the most works of fiction ever in history. Really? I thought that would be Billy's blogs. Big too like that one. That was good. Then David Miscovich is now the head of Scientology.

So we're going to talk a little bit about Miscovage with our guest that's coming up. He's got some, you know, a lot of one-on-one interaction with him. But Miskavage was Elron Hubbard's cameraman for his Scientology training films that he used to do. So it's like if Frankie Borelli ended up, but taking over Barstool Sports somewhere down the line. So that's kind of a dynamic they'd add. He was he was the cameraman and El Ron Hubbard would probably be like, all right, menthol review, take one. Let me light up two of them

All right, give this a 9.1 I wish it hit a little bit harder All right, David, hit record So yeah, he was the cameraman And was, yeah, doing the training films And when Miskovich died Or excuse me, when L Ron Hubbard died Miskvich took over

Because at that point he was the chief marketing officer So it is actually very similar to Frankie's rise Through the company that we work at right now the craziest thing was hubbard when he died he his like everyone thought there was no way hubbard could die and they described dying as uh leaving i think it was shedding their body because you were not just a human in a body you your body contained the ghost aliens who'd been blown up in the volcano and you were just shedding your body to go live another in another human in another dimension so hubbard was you know since he was the head in part of the the Galactic Federation, he got to the point where it was like, if he died, people would be skeptical. So when he died, he had the explanation and he told his cameraman, one of his trusted confidants, tell them that I, you know, left my body to do more discoveries on the ethereal plane of enlightenment. And that's how it was described. Like he had to leave his body in order

to, like, find out more to do continuous research. He had to leave his body. And, and, And he always, he said he was coming back because everyone who was part of the C organization, part of that, there was a, if you join the C organization, there was a billion year contract that you had to sign. And every time you died, you were promised to come back in 25 years. So they thought at most he'd be gone 25 years, if not probably sooner because he was higher ranking than everyone in the C organization. Interesting. so that was what bottom time uh if he were to have returned it would have been in 2007 i'm pretty sure or actually did i get the math around no yeah or 2000 yeah so with that he died after suffering a stroke and it it's just wild how many lies and just like we get to way better with uh render who he

interviewed um but just the culture of not questioning anything it's just so fast it's kind of like he created qanon for a pre internet era yeah and the qanon was the entire religion and that structure think about this like he was he was the one that was bestowed with god like the the message he is he's the original qanon if hubbard just had a podcast oh this would have been way less damaging to everybody he probably was just like told you stories about aliens He would have, like, just read his, like, new story every week he wrote. People would have tuned in. He would have had an audience.

He would have made money. Counterpoint, we wouldn't have gotten Top Gun 2. True. So, yeah. Well, Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise. Whatever Tom Cruise has done to his own brain to manipulate it and, and trick himself into. It was worth it.

It was worth it because we got Top Gun 2. That's fair. It's the price you have to pay. Maybe a couple hundred thousand people got, like, Diet Kidnapped, I guess you could call it. Kidnap Zero. Sugar-free kidnapped. Kidnapped light.

But Tom Cruise made Top Gun 2, which I think that kind of evens out a little bit. Miskovich, and we should all say allegedly, because they're probably going to sue us. I actually hope one of these, like, private investigators. Let's publicly feud with them. So this is all publicly available information. David Miskovich, the head of Scientology right now, So he's been linked to reports of abuse. He was investigated by the FBI for human trafficking.

And he's had just a lot of people saying that he has done some pretty bad, evil, dirty things in the name of Scientology. In fact, his own wife, Shelley Miscovich, went missing for quite some time. And Leah Romini, when she made her police report, she was saying, like, hey, please try to find his wife. because nobody knows where she is and no one's seen her in public because allegedly she filled several job vacancies at the church without her husband's permission

and kind of crossed him. They had some issues. She went completely missing. The police looked into it. And then some people say that she is being held under guard at their gold base that they have, which is something that you'll hear

Mike Rinder describe when he comes on the show like that's sort of like kidnapping stuff basically. We don't know if any of that's true. We don't know that it's not but these are all these are all things that have been reported and corroborated by other sources.

And the thing is Scientology has been able to remain and actually in 1993 finally got its tax exempt status back after a 40 year battle um they've been just manipulating governments by intimidation uh bribery and sometimes like basically every go like every local government that they operate around be it clear water florida

the spiritual place in uh they're spot in california they all hate them and it's because scientologists have just pestered them with any type of any type of resistance to Scientology operating, any politician who's raised any sort of skepticism has been harassed and intimidated by their group of private investigators, which a ton of them are actually Scientologists. So if we air this, like, we might have some private investigators show up at our doors. I hope not. It might be fun.

Think about the content. I don't want to get investigated privately by anybody. No, but what if they just, like, show up the office and, like, try to harass us and we just take cameras out and make some six. private investigator you mean like a dude tell him to leave i would say um i'd like for you to speak with my attorney his name is frank the tank yes and i will leave you to to get on with the discussion we just lock him in a room with frank tank yes that'd be so funny think about the content that would be great content all right so tell you what let's get into our interview um this is

fantastic interview i thought mike render former scientologist he was very high up in Scientology. I think he was going to look up his official job title right now that he had. He was on the board of the church. He was on the board of directors of the Church of Scientology until 2007. He was the head

of its office of special affairs. You might have seen him in the HBO documentary going clear and he co-hosted all three seasons of the Emmy Award-winning show Leah Romini, Scientology and the aftermath on A&E. and him and Ramini currently co-hosts the podcast, Scientology, Fair Game.

So here he is, Mike Render. Okay, now we welcome on a very special guest. He wrote a book. Congratulations on writing a book. It's called A Billion Years My Escape from a Life in the Highest Ranks of Scientology. It's Mike Rinder. Did I pronounce that correctly? You did indeed.

You got it right on. Mike Rinder. He's joining us, and he's going to talk to us about his life and about the book, it's critically acclaimed, I would say. Is that fair? Oh, that's very fair. I'm glad you mentioned that. It really wasn't what I expected to have any critical acclaim. I'm no writer. I wasn't really, you know, not trained as a writer and never intended to be a writer, but yes, it's been very well received, both by people who form a scientist. Scientologists or not, and also in literary circles, which is a little strange to me.

All right. Well, congratulations. We will do a full review on it. I know that Billy read the entire book cover to cover. I couldn't put it down. It was fascinating. So we got a ton of questions for you. I guess right off the back, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you became involved in the Church of Scientology? Sure. I was raised as Scientologist. My parents got in, when I was growing up in Australia, in the late 1950s, when I was like five or six years old. And I sort of became immersed in the subject through my parents. You know, one thing about Scientology is there's no, as Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, like to say, there's no half in and half out in Scientology.

You're either in or you're out. You're 100% committed or you're not a Scientologist. And that holds true to this day. And when I finished school, I joined what is called the C organization, which is the inner core elite of Scientology. That's where the title of the book comes from, a billion years, because in order to participate in that part of Scientology, you have to sign a contract committing yourself to a billion years in the service of Scientology. you have to sign a contract committing yourself to a billion years in the service of Scientology. And that was sort of almost a preordained path for me to follow. I went and worked with the founder of Scientology, El Ron Hubbard,

on the ship that he had run away to in the Mediterranean for the first few years and then moved to Clearwater, Florida in 1975, where Hubbard and Scientology sort of established a base for itself and subsequently rose up the ranks in Scientology to be on the board of directors of the Church of Scientology International and the international spokesperson of Scientology until I escaped in 2007. Escaped is an interesting word that you chose right there. You view it as like a complete escape.

It was they had that much control over your life? Yes, I do. And, you know, anybody I think who has left this organization from the level that I was at would qualify their departure as an escape. Larry Wright in his wonderful book, Going Clear, subtitled at Scientology in the Prison of Belief. The escaping aspect of it isn't so much climbing over the barbed wire fences or escaping the security guards or whatever. It is escaping the prison of your mind and the ideas that have been implanted in you that if you leave this organization, you are doomed to an eternity of blackness and hell and will find yourself in what Scientologist is called the Wog world, which is the terminology that they use for everything that is not Scientology. It's a pretty derogatory term, and that you will probably contract cancer and die. And that is the image that is portrayed of the world outside this very isolated insular bubble of the sea organization. So, yeah, it was an escape. And if you read the beginning of the book, I sort of start with the day that I escaped and then go back and recount my. history from there and it's a it's a you know a bit of a uh i don't know how to exactly to describe

it's sort of like a movie scene of getting into a subway and knowing that there were probably people following me and jumping on at the last minute and not being short you know it's it's a it's a bit of a it's a bit of a drama interesting so i want i want billy to really unload some questions on you because he he is fascinated he's been talking about your book all day. So it's kind of been annoying me. If you want to adopt them, you can. We'll get into that in a second. But I'm curious from your perspective, because a lot of people that have never been in the Church of Scientology, we don't know about what Scientology is. If you ask people on the street, what is a Christian? They would probably say it was somebody that

believes in Jesus being the son of God and promising them eternal salvation through that figure. But when it comes to Scientology, like, I couldn't tell you off the top of my head until I did a little bit of research, what Scientologists believe? So what do Scientologists believe? What is Scientology? Well, that's a really tough question. And if you ask Scientologists that question, they have a pat reply. Look, buy a book and read about it for yourself. And you see Scientology celebrities saying that all the time. In fact, Leah Remini, my buddy, did a tweet the other day, taking all these clips of Scientology celebrities from Tom Cruise to Kirstie Alley to Danny Masterson saying, oh, buy a book and find out for yourself.

And her little wise-ass comment was buy Mike Rinder's book and find out for real. So this is part of the sort of way that people get immersed in Scientology and then find themselves kind of getting further. and further down the rabbit hall. I, as the international spokesperson of Scientology, used to use that line, you know, get a book and read about it and you'll find out for yourself. But if I was to summarize what Scientology is, Scientology is, and what they believe, they believe that man is a spiritual being occupying a body with a mind, and that Scientology is, and that Scientology is, and in fact, El Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, developed a, what he called technology,

which is his word that he used to describe his teachings. What, like, if you're a Christian, you would then be saying the Bible is a technology, to make it sound sort of scientific and like it works all the time, that his technology provides the only very emphasized on only path to full spiritual salvation and happiness, to world peace, to eradicating suffering, to eradicating, you know, insecurities or emotional upsets or problems in your life. It is the answer literally to everything.

Interesting. So something that you, interesting that you said earlier, that you're not a writer and you never studied to be a writer. Throughout your book, you talk about how much you had to study Scientology literature. And Elrond Hubbard was a writer. So, you know, he was a fiction writer to begin with. So honestly, for how much you studied his works and all of his writings, I feel like you kind of secondhandly did study as a writer through reading a writer's writings. So, well, you know, I guess there's some truth to that because You know, I firmly believe that reading and, you know, reading anything is the best way to learn about something or get yourself educated and to become literate.

And I did a lot of reading. Scientologists are required to read a lot because Hubbard wrote a lot. He wrote thousands and thousands and thousands, tens of thousands, millions of words. and Scientologists are expected to study all those in order to absorb the wisdom of El Ron Hubbard to become a better person and save the world. Is there any explanation inside the religion itself of El Ron Hubbard being selected as the only person that can tell you? Like, is he like a half deity? Was he chosen by some mystical, powerful force? Or why is he the only person that you can only

I truly believe what he has said. Well, he said, I'm not from this planet. I have come here to save mankind. But, you know, effectively, while he made a lot of pronouncements saying, well, I'm not a God, I'm just a man, I'm not, you know, don't take me at my word, see if what I say works. Those are sort of toss-off lines that were used when criticism would come in about, well, Hubbard is deemed himself as God or the chosen one. But, you know, in the bits where he was saying the quiet bits out loud, he said, I'm not from this planet and I came here to save you all. and somehow or another, he, different from anybody in the entire history of Earth,

uncovered the true secrets of why everybody on this planet suffers in some form or another, whether it's from physical infirmities or insecurities or emotional difficulties or whatever. He said he's the only person in history who has come up with the answers. of that. And it's interesting because if you study Scientology, the first answer that Hubbard came up with was in this book that he called Dianetics. And Dianetics was a very clever device where he said, you as an individual have this thing that is causing you to do bad shit or causing you to be sick or causing you to be upset and it's called the reactive mind and it is this thing that he claimed was a subconscious mind that controls your actions and emotions and of course

the only way to resolve the reactive mind was through his technology dynamics and he claimed that if you got rid of the reactive mind that you would be a perfect human being You would have idetic memory, you wouldn't be upset about things, you wouldn't have any physical ailments, you would be like what he called homo novice, new man. When a lot of people sort of cottoned onto this and Dianetics became popular in 1950 when it was released, it was sort of a fad at the time. But then people who supposedly had done all this removal of their reactive mind were just as dumb as the rest of them. he decided he needed a new thing. And that's when Scientology, I mean, there's a lot of complications that go into this. But they then came up with Scientology and said, oh, wait a minute, we need to address the spirit, not just the reactive mind. So now there's this whole, we're going to be

Scientology. And then, oh, well, because we're having problems, let's turn it into a religion, because we're addressing the spirit, because that will help because people like religion. Oh, now we didn't have the solution with that. Let's do this. it's a progressive series of here's the new promise to fulfill the old promise that I made that nobody could attain all the way to the last day of his life. So yeah, I mean, for a second, it sounded like you were actually talking me into dietics for a moment. I was like, yeah, I got to get rid of my reactive mind. That's what's screwing me up. Yeah, and the beauty of it, Avery, is that when you're told it's the reactive

mind it's not you you're not the cause of your problems this other thing is and we can get rid of that so you can wash your hands of being responsible for being an asshole you can wash your hands of being responsible for becoming a drug addict we just tell you we got this thing over here and we'll deal with that yeah sorry area and i know i interrupted you i saw you were about to start i've been saying for years okay we're here for you where avry is the root of all my my problems. But maybe he might not be. So there you go. Some people might disagree with you. Aaron, what were you going to say? I was to say that that's the interesting thing about dienetics. And I think what its draw was was like back when it was released was it was kind of

I was reading this study from PubMed that kind of like juxtapose dietics versus regular psychotherapy, like psychotherapy. And it was, as it was like new, like you said, it was a fad. But it was very, I would guess, I guess the best word is, it worked because what it did was it took people, it was almost, it was like therapy. So it took people was like, well, what is the root cause of your trauma? Go back to the first memory of why does that hurt? What do you see? And it really makes people like self-reflect, which is, I think, a rare occurrence in our entertainment-driven society.

But it bring me to my question, I wanted to ask you, is like, what do you think was the main catalyst of it catching on to like being such a popular religion? Because I think, you know, quote unquote, formal religions, they kind of have the luxury of history on their side, where it's like it's harder to test and it's harder to. be inaccurate because it happened so long ago, right? This was so current and new new, age. Like, what do you think was the catalyst to getting people to say, no, this is what it is? Well, I think that's a great question, Aaron. And I think that in the beginning in 1950, if you know, you've got to realize that that was a time when there was an enormous fear about nuclear war in the world the cold war was going on people were insecure you know the the war had ended and families had been disrupted and there was a lot of angst and i think that this appeal of

dionetics was that it it was sort of it was like a the first self-help praise of look i can do something about how i'm feeling and make myself feel better and and you bring up a wonderful point, there is people find value in things in dionetics and Scientology. Look, if the whole thing was just bullshit and people were just paying a whole lot of money to get absolutely nothing, nobody would be involved in it. There are elements that Hubbard took and put into dienetics of regression therapy and things from Freud. And then in Scientology from Eastern religion, and he took this stuff from all over. So there are these little kernels of workable things that are contained in Dianetics and

Scientology. And as you say, the principal theory of Dianetics is regression. You go back to the beginning of whatever the incident or moment of upset or whatever is and look upon it and talk about it and sort of, you know, for lack of a better word, talk it out. And that, if people believe that something is going to help them, and particularly if they pay a little money for it, and then they go and participate in it, many people will find that, or you will find many people who will say, wow, this really helped me. I feel so much better now. It's very subjective. You know, there's no, there's no way of verifying

whether they really are feeling better or not feeling better, but if they say they are, they are. And if that combined then with you get a bunch of other people around you, supporting you and saying the same thing, the confirmation bias becomes very, very heavy. So in the initial phase of dienetics, I think that that was the appeal. Then when Scientology really grew, wasn't until the 1970s. And Scientology was a child of the counterculture of the 1970s. It was the anti-establishment religion. And a lot of people who joined Scientology in the 70s joined Scientology, not because they thought Scientology was so wonderful, but because the government was attacking Scientology. So therefore it must be good. It was literally

the you know if you if the government says Scientology sucks we say we love Scientology and we're going to go join up so those are the two biggest periods of expansion for Scientology in its history it is dwindling today you know the Internet has sort of killed the cult in in society because information is the poison that cults can't deal with. But that, to me, is sort of the two parts or two things that caused the growth of dynamics and then Scientology. So from your perspective, you came up in this religion. You were intimately involved with a lot of the big decision making and the details

and communications of Scientology. And you walked away. you decide to leave what well first question we had uh we had michael cohen who used to be don't trump's lawyer on the show and he's doing like a me a culpator we asked him if he was a rat are you a rat um yeah i guess to some extent although i i would i would character my characterize myself more as a whistleblower right like you you you uh you're a rat if you're if you're us i'll characterize myself as a whistleblower I won't go down that rebel.

I think that's fair. But what made you decide, okay, this is enough. I need to get out. I've seen enough where I know that this entire thing can't be something I support any longer. Well, it was a long time coming, honestly. And, you know, I talk about that in the book, the sort of mental anguish that I was going through for a considerable period of time. But ultimately, what happened was I was. I was sent to London to deal with a BBC reporter named John Sweeney, who was doing a program for Panorama on the BBC, and he sort of doorstep me with a camera crew and started shoving a microphone in my face and saying, I have been, I have reliable witnesses that say that David Mischavich, the then current leader of Scientology, has physically abused and assaulted you on many occasions.

And I stood there and said, that's just a lie. And we'll sue you if you put that on the air, knowing full well that it was absolutely true. And I walked away from that and kind of went, what the fuck am I doing with my life? I'm here standing on TV, defending this guy who is physically assaulting people, including me. that's not what I believed I was getting into Scientology for but there was still this element that remained of I can't abandon my two children and my wife I can't just walk out the door and you know leave them behind and like a day very shortly thereafter David Muscovich the head of Scientology wrote this this email sort of I only say sort of because it wasn't really an email

it was called something else but it's like an email and he c ced me on it he sent it to someone else and ced me on it and said you know Rinder's never coming back to the US I'm sending him off to Western Australia where he can go and I'll give him 10 quid and if he can't survive

with that he can go sell his body on the street and I quote this thing in the book And I went, okay, there is absolutely nothing left for me. I have got to get out of here. Hell would be better than what I'm going through. And I detail a lot of what had been going on prior to that. And, you know, this prison that I, internal prison that I had been in called the hole, which anybody who's watched Going Clear saw a little bit about that.

So I made my little plan. and then the day after that is when I escaped. Talking about the apparatus of compliance with a lot of the higher-ups, what type of infrastructure did Scientology have to ensure people were complying, be it private investigators? How large of a force did they have not only physically just so people can understand besides the sort of mental prison they had you in? but there was tons of physical measures that they took to ensure compliance with the members

of Scientology. Could you go on some of those? Yeah. And remember, there are sort of different categories of people involved in Scientology. There's the people that give the money who are called parishioners. They're like the congregation that live out in the world in their own homes or whatever, but come into Scientology to hand over their cash and then participate in Scientology services. And then there are people that work in Scientology organizations and they're called staff members. And then at the very top, you have the Seahog members like me. And we lived and worked in communal church provided or Scientology. I hate the word church. Organization provided living facilities, work facilities, et cetera, et cetera.

Those facilities, particularly the one that is the international headquarters or designated the international headquarters of Scientology in Riverside County in California, near a little town out there called Hammett, although the city of Hammett hates it when Scientology says, we're near Hammett because they're not in Hammett, but it's the closest near town than anybody knows. that facility has a very elaborate security system. There are 24 hour a day security guards who sit at the booths guarding the two entrances with sliding gates that can only be open from inside the booth. They have motorcycles that they patrol around the property. There are cameras literally everywhere and all around the perimeter. there is a fence that has razor wire on the top of it. The fences are lit with lights that light up from motion sensors in the ground.

There's motion sensors on the fences there. And the property itself is remote. It is, you know, five miles from the nearest other living person. So you have a facility there, which is incredibly, difficult to get out of unless you have a vehicle, but most people don't have vehicles. Seagong members don't. There are a few exceptions. You know, David Mischavitch's father escaped by driving through the gate and someone else

escaped in the trunk of a visitor's car. And there have been various stories of the escapes from that property called gold or golden era. But then there is, if you do escape. there is a thing called the blow drill. And the blow drill, blow is the term that's used within the sea organization or Scientology to mean an escape or an unauthorized departure. And the blow drill, if someone important leaves, like me, is instantly activated and a whole bunch of people and private investigators, et cetera, go into action to track. to track the person down and get them back.

And that entails, you know, when you're in the Seahog, you provide every piece of information about your life, your family, your background, your bank accounts, your social security number, et cetera, et cetera. A team of people gets started on, okay, does he have any credit cards? Has he booked an airline flight? Has he booked a bus? Has he booked a taxi?

Like they hotel, they go everywhere and anywhere, and once the person is found, they track them down and go and visit them, usually with someone who is a family member or someone that they looked up to in the organization to persuade them to return. And sometimes people have been persuaded to return in not just, a discussion persuasion, but, you know, shoved into the back of a van and driven back. This is the, but there is sort of a more sinister compliance technique that is used in Scientology. Scientology is a snitch culture, entirely and utterly. You are required to report on anything and anybody, who is doing anything that seems even suspicious, let alone violation of the rules of Scientology. And that includes your spouse, any close family members, anybody.

The penalty for failing to report someone who is doing something that is in violation of what Scientology considers good is that you get the same penalty that they would get for having committed the act. So if you see someone doing something and it's bad or suspect that they're doing something bad, you're expected to report. It's very, very starzy. It is the way that people are monitored and controlled in Scientology. And the fear of people turning you in is a massive thing that controls the world of Scientology. Interesting. What would happen if Tom Cruise were to try to escape Scientology? What is the protocol with a high profile exit like that? Is there, would they, do they bend the rules for him since he does carry so much power and communicating that message to the outside world? Or what do you think that situation would look like a code red Tom Cruise is trying to get out? Well, the closest thing that I know to that is Leah Remini. You know, when she was trying to leave,

she wanted to leave properly. She didn't want to just cut ties and walk away. And so she went to Saint-Tanian and said, look, I'm pissed about what's going on here. I don't agree with this. I don't agree with that. I want to know what's going on here. I want to know what's going on there. So they sent people to her home to seek to, first of all, talk her out of whatever it was that she thought was going on that was inappropriate.

when she was less than responsive and didn't really caltel to their, to their wishes, which, just so you understand, when Scientology comes to a person and says, look, don't listen to what Mike Rinder says. He's a suppressive person. They are effectively saying, ignore anything that that guy says because he's evil incarnate. and we are telling you he is evil and so you must believe us you just accept what we tell you at face value because we don't want you inquiring any further but at one point leo was then told well you need to go from los angeles to the headquarters uh the spiritual headquarters in clear water and undergo a

confessional which is uh you know admit to your crimes using this Scientology lie-detected device called E-meter, and she was forced to force. She was convinced to do that on the basis that if she didn't, her entire family would be torn apart. Her mother, who was a Scientologist, her sister who was a Scientologist, her stepfather, her husband would all be forced to disconnect from her, which is the practice that Scientology,

what Scientologists called this, you know, removal of bad influences from your environment or life. She didn't even buckle under after having spent $300,000 to undergo this sex checking or interrogation at Clearwater. And ultimately what happened, they kept rising up the levels of people who were sent or, you know, put forth to deal with Leah, she chewed all of them up and eventually ended up being seen by David Muscovich himself to try and convince her that all was on the up and up. And she didn't buy his bullshit either. And so eventually left. And that's probably

what would happen with Tom Cruise, although he would go straight to the David Muscovich step. Now, what attracts, why are so many celebrities and specifically celebrities, and specifically celebrities as opposed to politicians or other public figures. Why are there so many Scientologists, celebrities, and how do Scientologists attract those types of people? Well, Hubbard recognized very early on that celebrities have a great influence on the population. And he targeted celebrities to be brought into Scientology as a way of spreading the word. And in fact, there are organizations in Scientology devoted exclusively to dealing with celebrities. They're called Celebrity Centers.

There is a big one in Hollywood in Los Angeles. And they cater primarily to people in the arts, the field of the arts. What Scientology offers to artists is they claim that Hubbard discovered the only real technology there is and again that word technology of

how you go about effectively communicating and that he uncovered these secrets of how you communicate with other people and control communication and

this is what every artist is about. Artists are about communicating. They are about communicating a message, a role, a musical piece, a book, whatever, to their intended audience. And Scientology makes a great pitch to celebrities saying, look, we have the technology of communication. So come and find out about it for yourself.

Now, I will say that in the last two decades, there has not been any new big-name Scientology celebrities. The only one who has emerged in this time really is Elizabeth Moss, but she was raised as Scientologist. She wasn't attracted into Scientology by the pitch about dealing with communication. She was raised into Scientology like I was. So the appeal of Scientology, as I said before, you know, the Internet has sort of been the poison that has killed or is slowly killing or quickly killing Scientology because nobody these days does anything or goes anywhere. They don't even buy a new toothbrush without Googling.

And the instant you Google Scientology, you get a shitstorm of information provided by people like me, not the information that Scientology sticks out in the world that nobody really is interested in. It sounds like you guys are not you guys, but Scientologists could really use, like you're pretty desperate for a new celebrity right now. I would recommend getting in touch with Kyrie Irving. I feel like he would be, if we're betting on a celebrity that could be influenced, it would either be like probably Kyrie, number one. Kanye? Kanye. Kanye would be a good Yeah, he's a good candidate, I'd say. I would do, I don't know what your standards, your barriers for

entry on celebrity are. But I would just... Very low, very low. Okay, then I'll, let's discuss. I have very low scruples. So, like, I could be a Scientologist. Now, the process to becoming a Scientologist to be, like, officially welcomed, I've heard, you know, you stop by a Scientology Center. You walk in the door, you're greeted.

What happens in that first introductory meeting once you step inside those doors? Okay. Well, Hubbard also developed a technology for how you get people into Scientology. And his technique is you use some method, whether it's just a conversation or whether it's one of these free personality tests that they offer or a introductory introductory demonstration of the Scientology e-meter, whatever it is, you get the person and you find their ruin. This is what the term that Hubbard used, find their ruin. It means isolate what it is that they want to deal with in their life or improve in their life.

And then you say, Scientology can help with that. And then proceed to explain whatever bullshit you can come up with of what bit of Scientology is going to resolve whatever the problem. And Scientology at the at the introductory level has all of, of these, they're called introductory courses, how to save your marriage, how to deal with people better, how to deal with your finances, how to deal with upsets and how to raise happy children, all of these things that are common problems that people have in the world, and they have these little courses that cost very little, and they offer sort of platitudes of, you know, just kind of hard to argue with sort of here's some lessons that you can take from from us here

in Scientology about how to do better with this or if they've got you know opposites that start telling them about the reactive mind and you know we can resolve your your emotional upsets or we can resolve your you know i mean hubbard claims in dionetics that dionetics cures everything from cancer to eyesight to bursitis to asthma and we'll cure all of those things with dionetics

and once you start on the path in Scientology the pitch then becomes look you found this that helped you from El Run Hubbard and there is this vast array of other technology

why don't you take the next step and see if that helps you too And while the drop-off percentage of people who walk in a door of a Church of Scientology and then take their first introductory service is enormous, the drop-off percentage of those who take that first service and carry on is also enormous. you know if you've got drones out on the street grabbing people off hollywood boulevard and pulling them in you will find uh you know one out of a hundred suckers and if you've got enough of them coming in then you will have some new additions to the to the Scientology world but these days there are also people who wake up and leave they come across things on the internet they see a TV program they read a book they talk to a friend so the attrition rate is greater than the new people

in rate got it yeah Billy um going more into your the presence of scientologists in Hollywood uh you see that there's like battlefield earth with john travolta that was made and people speculate that will smith in after earth was some sort of scientology part of the same mythos uh are there producers in hollywood does scientology try to produce movies or influence uh you know all types of entertainment to try to attract more people or justify i think he's got an oscar no that's not an oscar what is that a that an emmy right behind him yeah yeah but that's for That's for the Aftermath show with Leah Remini. Okay.

That's from after I left. That's not in Scientology. No, that's a great question, Billy. That's a great question. Scientology has tried to produce one movie and did produce one movie, which is Battlefield Earth, one of the all-time Raspberry Award winning bombs in the history of cinema, and has never tried to do anything subsequent to that.

What they do do, though, and there's no big-time producers or directors who are Scientologists, at least not overtly, not from lack of trying. I talk about in the book, you know, bringing Ron Howard to the gold base to try and wine and dine him when Tom Cruise was making far and away, and me going to see Brian Grazer at the offices of Imagine to brief him about Scientology. But that has been a pretty unsuccessful pattern. What they do do is they take people and who have had some minor success. You look them up on IMDB and they, you know, they had a bit part in a TV episode in 1993. So now they're the experts on how you get a role. So they do seminars as these are more introductory services to try and attract people and they go stand in the line at SAG of people waiting to make registrations or waiting to audition for a role somewhere and they hand out these little cards and they say, hey, if you want to learn how to successfully audition, come to this place at 8 o'clock tonight. And that is the Celebrity Center in Hollywood.

And they have some guy who had a role in 1993, and he imparts some, I don't know what, I have no idea what these people say, honestly. But whatever it is, that's the way that Scientology seeks to get artists into Scientology. They don't believe that out of them, Tom Cruise, reaching out to, you know, Stephen, Spielberg or something, or Ron Howard, they don't believe that they're going to get any real big established stars. They believe that they can get people at the beginning of their career and then sort of coax them along and have them become a big star and then credit Scientology for having made them a star. They want to build through the draft is with the rest of the time. That's exactly right. But way before the draft actually, like the farm system, way

down like down at high pop wanna level yeah peevee level yeah get him at the peeway level yeah sign with me um i got a question so um upon you know subsequent to your exodus yeah um is there because my mother is what she likes to describe herself as a recovering catholic yeah and so so she was she was raised in the catholic school where you know they would take bullers to kids hands if they You know what I'm saying? They would get beat in school, that type of shit. And so, you know, she's 63, 64 years old now. And she still has, like, residual fear of hell.

Like, she knows it's bullshit. She feels it's bullshit. She thinks it's bullshit. But, like, it had been beaten to her since she was a kid that if you don't do X, Y, Z, you're going to go an eternal pitfire. So she still battles. internally with that residual fear and a residual trauma is what it is you're joking trauma into children and so uh i ask this respectfully is there anything residual from the belief system of the scientology that you kind of still carry with you or feel that's somewhat accurate in the

real world today or something that's a that's another great question area and and i have two answers for it. One, the thing that I struggle most with was nightmares, you know, very classic PTSD. And the nightmare was always, I'm back and I can't escape. And I had those for 15 years almost until I wrote the book. And I say at the end in the epilogue that for the first time since I left, once I finished sort of spewing out the story of my life and revisiting everything that I had experienced, I no longer have those nightmares. And I, you know, I'm very thankful for that. Like it is such a relief to me to not go to sleep at night worrying that I'm going to wake up

in the middle of the night in a cold sweat. the other thing that I have difficulty overcoming is the the for a long time I had a really hard time figuring out whether what I thought was right or wrong about something was because that was really my view or that had been how I had been raised to think and the fear that I was making decisions based on assumptions or things that I quote knew that were things that just aren't true but came from Scientology. And I think that over the extensive period of time that I have now been gone from Scientology for, that I have sort of overcome that. I have spoken to a lot of people. I have talked this through with a lot of people who are in similar positions to me,

but also with very, very smart people who study cult behavior, etc., etc. I guess there was really a third one, the one that I still struggle with, not using Scientology jargon. There is so many terms and words in Scientology that are only understood in the world of Scientology. And I still slip using words or terms or expressions for things that only really make sense to a Scientologist. And I go, oh, sorry, you know, I didn't mean to call you a terminal, you know, which is the Scientology word for someone that you're communicating with on the other side, like you three are right now terminals. And, you know, you slip with some of these things because they're such habit and some of the words don't translate easily into regular English.

So that I still have to catch myself and, you know, particularly when I'm around because my wife, my current wife was also a former member of the C organization. So it's really easy for us to slip into the shorthand of Scientology terminology. and then because we're still using it a bit to slip into what I'm dealing with people outside of that world. No, it's interesting you said because like really dope story, but long story short, I met this dude who I went to Japan.

I visited in Japan and he was saying how he was from Italy and he moved there and he just stayed there. He opened up a bar and he said something really profound. He spoke like five, six languages and he was like the way in which, like if you learn somebody else's language that you're seeing through the lens and through the window of how they view the world. So it's really powerful for me hearing that, just saying that, you know, you struggle with the lens that you were given to see the world. So like building upon that, how do you go about building your moral framework when you kind of broke out of your

moral framework that was given to you? Well, it's funny. I talk about that in the book too. One of the things that it oddly keeps people in Scientology is the fact that it's really easy to fall into the idea that everything about how you need to live your life or the decisions you need to make is dictated by Scientology. You don't have to think about anything. You know what is right and wrong based on what Scientology tells you is right and wrong. You know what you should and shouldn't do based on what Scientology tells you you shouldn't, shouldn't do. And I write at the end of the book about what it was like to walk away from that. And for the first time, really, since I was five years old, have no moral compass that it was just what do I think is right or wrong. And, you know,

what I struggled with is my view clouded or colored by the lens through which I see it. It certainly was the greatest freedom that I experienced from leaving or escaping Scientology, the freedom to make my own decisions about what was right and wrong. And, you know, it's hard sometimes because if you don't have this outside force that you are so used to in making those sort of judgments, you kind of like, you know, I'm not sure if I'm right. I'm not sure if I'm wrong. I've just got, I sort of got to do what my gut tells me, what my heart tells me, what my intellect tells me is the right or wrong thing to do. But that has become clearer and clearer as there is more distance between my life today and that former life that I used to live. It's fascinating. Big T. Do you have any questions?

Yeah, you mentioned the hole, which some people might not know what that is. I was just curious if you could go into what that is and what it was like being there. Yeah, the hole was a building at the international headquarters of Scientology out there in Riverside County that David Muscovich, the leader of Scientology, turned into a prison. The windows were locked down, screwed down. The doors were barred. There was a security guard put on the front, and people who were signed to the whole, me being one of the initial six founding members, were expected to eat, sleep, live, work, do everything inside that building. We were not allowed out except to take a shower periodically somewhere else.

other than that, no leaving at all. And this, the way to get out of the hole was never really clearly identified, but it had something to do with, if you admit enough, confess enough horrible crimes and thoughts and things that you have done, particularly toward David Muscovich, you may be allowed to get out. And then that devolved into as more and more people, got added eventually there was like a hundred and forty people in there um beating

confessions and submissions out of other people so that you could not only say look i admitted to all these terrible things but i also got this other guy to come clean and admit to these terrible things so i'm one of the good guys now please let me out. Um, that, that is, it was really, uh, like the Lord of the Flies, uh, where the, the cruelty and the, the torture that was meted out from otherwise good people in the hope that they would be able to save themselves and rise to the top and exit out of this horrible, horrible little prison uh was pretty nasty and i describe it at some length in the book um probably more length than it has ever been described anywhere uh there was like i said earlier there was a

a sort of a a depiction of one of the incidents in the whole the musical chairs incident in the going clear movie but there it it was it was vicious and um yeah thank you for sharing that The irony in all that is the more confessions you make to them, the more things that you tell them about some of the bad things that you've done or thought, then that's just more that they have, more information they have to imprison you and your mind in the future because they have that blackmail on you. Yeah. And even worse than that, it's not so much the blackmail. It's like, you know, you're expected to admit that I was lazy. I was a liar. I was this. I was that. Like all these things. that made life very difficult for David Muscovich. In addition to anything else that you may have done, you know, I, you know, I was a peeping Tom, I was a this, I was that. And the inverse, you know, the more force threat and pressure you put on someone,

the less likely what they say or are willing to admit to is true. and so the biggest use of these forced confessions in the hole is today to take the people who were there and like myself put out websites where in my own handwriting it says I'm a liar so Scientology comes around now with those statements that were coerced or beaten out of me in the hole in my own handwriting saying I'm a liar saying well see he admits he's a liar you can't trust anything he says about scientology because he's a liar so that's the best use they have for them is to seek to discredit the sources of information that say things they don't like yeah so i've also noticed that that scientology um or the corg

they're very litigious they um they've used the law and they've used civil courts as one of their biggest weapons to discourage people from speaking out um is Are there any, do you have any residual fear? Have you been involved in litigation against them? Did they go after you? Yes, of course. Should we be afraid for having you on? No, no, no. They're a paper tiger at this point. They sent a lot of threat letters. They, you know, have an army of lawyers still that they pay a lot of money to write stupid letters,

but they don't follow up on that because the lawsuits that were brought against. the media have been singularly unsuccessful. The big one was they sued Time magazine after the 1991 Rich Behar article and ended up losing that case big time in the U.S. Supreme Court setting a precedent about actual malice. And the only other lawsuit that they have filed in the last decade was a lawsuit against a woman called Debbie Cook, who they claimed violated one of their non-disclosure agreements and they sued her in San Antonio. And after she was on the stand for one day talking about being in the hole and the abuses of David Muscovich, Scientology folded their tent and settled with her. And

she lives happily on a large ranch now. That's nice. Yeah. So we appreciate you joining the show. Thank you for coming on. Again, this is Mike Render. You can by his book, A Billion Years, My Escape from a Life in the Highest Ranks of Scientology. Anything else that you'd like to share about the book? Any other important information that you want to express to our readers before we let you go? Well, just one thing. I hope that people who read this book walk away from it going, look, if this guy could change his life at 52 years old and escape with nothing, literally the clothes on his back,

whatever it is that's going on in my life, I can change too. I can actually make things better by doing something. And I don't want people to think that the only message of the book is Scientology sucks. Because actually the message of the book is, look, this can happen to anybody. You can be in a bad relationship. You can have a bad job. You can be involved in a cult, whatever, but you can also change it. Yeah, I bet that was a great feeling.

I always talk about maybe the best feeling of my life is when I quit and I walked away from a job that I loathed, that I detested. And just the feeling of driving away, seeing that office building in my rearview mirror, even though I had nothing lined up, the rush that I got from doing that made me instantly realize that it was the correct thing to do. I have to imagine that when you finally got away, when you escaped Scientology, you were able to look back and starting new was maybe the, it had to have been the most free feeling that you've ever had. Absolutely. Absolutely. Bill, you have one last question? I have one last question. It's a little far out. Recently, the most recent conspiracy theory about Scientology is in regards to Will Smith and Jada Pinkin Smith opening a school that had a lot of Scientology related rhetoric. It was reported and its connection to the slap occurred between Chris Rock and Will Smith

slapping him. Some people thought that it was a Scientology related act. Is there any basis to that? No, I don't think so. Okay. There was just a lunacy related act. Billy spends a lot of his time on TikTok and we apologize for him. I had to ask. We need to ask an ask for it. All right. Well, Thank you very much for coming on the show. Thank you for sharing. We appreciate it. Of course. Pleasure.

Again, it's a billion years. My Escape from Life in the highest ranks of Scientology. Mike Rinder, fantastic book. Billy loved it. It's great book. Honestly. Great conversation. Thank you very much for coming on the show.

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protects all the things that I have in there. It's very easy. It's a very sleek design. I love it, and they've got that RFID blocking technology just in case we get somebody walking by with a scanner trying to steal my bank account information. Probably a Scientologist. Probably a Scientologist. I've got RFID blocking technology in your face. Check out their site right now for RidgeWallet. You can use the promo code macro. Get 10% off your order. Promocode macro, 10% off your order when you go to Ridgewallet. Check them out right now. All right, that will about wrap it up for today's macro dosing. I wish I asked him if he, what Scientologists thought of Mormons.

Because how would they justify Mormonism who also believe in different aliens if they're just like unenlightened Scientologists who just believe in an ancient unlike because the Mormons also believe

in planets and space and that's just fascinating what if they're right though yeah then not

what if what if Scientology is right think about your alien ghosts in you yeah they're just totally whacked out

they're just like they went to that seminar in the sky and got so propagandized yeah Damn I think he's right

I think Scientology's right He inadvertently turned me Into a Scientologist What if that's his whole mission By the way What if him and Lee Romini That'd be brilliant It'd be so smart

To be like I got out of there I got out of there Because they were It's not because what they were teaching Was wrong It's just I didn't like David So But what they were saying

Like the aliens and the volcanoes And shit The H bomb That actually happened He did lay out at one point Like hey I mean It's not like You get

nothing out of Scientology. I mean, if you got, if you didn't get anything, nobody would do it. You can do this, this, this and this. Yeah. Let's be real that, you know, on, on the topic of communication when he was talking about celebrities, like, he is an Emmy winner. And he wrote an amazing book that I read. He is very like, his skill of communication is very good.

Can we send him a plaque for the amazing book that I read award from Billy Football? Yes. Yeah. Amazing book that I read. It's fantastic. Great advice. Billy, can you send him a plaque? Yeah, I'll get that back to you.

Can you write him a thank you note? I'll think, yeah, I'll write him a thank you. Bring back the handwritten thank you notes. I really like those. It's a nice touch. Yeah. I think that's something that we're missing in America right now. It was like a nice, nice cursive note.

Can you write cursive? Yeah. I want you to write me in cursive right now. PFT, thank you for having me. on this podcast. Love Billy Football. I want to see if Billy can actually write. Can you write in cursive, Big T?

Yeah, probably. I haven't in so long I wouldn't even. Avery can't. They don't teach the kids' cursive anymore. Well, I can't write PFT in Curves. Yeah, I was just think, that's what I was actually just thinking. How do you do like three capital? You can't.

You do a period. Yeah. There's different P's. You do cursive P, then a period. Curse of F, period. I feel like I know all the lowercase letters, but not uppercase. You know, this is sad. Because there's no such thing

as uppercase cursive. You start it with an uppercase letter, then you go into cursive. What are you taught, Billy? No. No. That's how I learned cursive. No, you're, you're, I think there are incredibly incorrect. Subtle differences. No, Billy, Billy is objectively wrong about this. There are

uppercase cursive letters. You guys don't know. You guys don't know anything about cursive. I do. Let's see. Billy wrote this all in lowercase except for the PFT. thank you for having me on your podcast that was that was pretty good

I have bad handwriting no I know I get it but you need to learn how to do the uppercase here I'm going to do the uppercase p uppercase f here's the F the F is a fucking tricky one oh what okay

what there's what are you going to tell me that there's not you're going to tell me that there's not let me see how you wrote the F okay this the well it's is running out of ink here so there's two So it doesn't look good. I'm going to do it again. So that's like Disney writing.

That's cursive. No, Disney. Yeah, no, there's two types of cursive. What? Cursive is uppercase letters. There are uppercase letters in the cursive alphabet. I promise you. Different types of cursive.

Yeah, there's uppercase letters. There's ligature. Billy, I promise you. There's looped cursive. I promise you there's uppercase cursive letters. There you go, big two. That's how you do the F. Okay.

The F is maybe the hardest one. The lowercase F is, it looks like a balloon animal. It's like... Yeah, it does. It looks like you've tied off like a bunny rabbit's ears or something like that. I hate cursive. Yeah, cursive is stupid. It should never have been taught, but now I feel old because nobody knows it anymore.

I know how to... I could write in it if I had to. Okay, yeah, but the cursive... Listening to Billy try to say that there's no such thing as uppercase letters in cursive is maddening to me because... Because you're just wrong. You just did just fancy letters. That's what it is. That's what the letters are in cursive.

Right, but that's, but the whole point of cursive is to be faster writing. And it's also to look nice. I'm telling you. I don't know, yeah, I don't know that that's necessarily true. It takes way longer. For some people, if you learn it, it can be faster because you don't pick the pencil out. But, Billy, you're objectively wrong. There are a million percent uppercase letters in cursions.

I think there's two types of cursive. Dude, Billy, I learned cursive in elementary. Every child was taught cursive. I don't even think they teach it. They don't. They should. I had one teacher. She stank back in, uh, in high school.

She had, uh, she made everybody write all their essays handwritten in cursory. That's, uh, I actually had. I, I would, I would care into the administration. I had that a couple classes. If, yeah, thank God I grew up in a time when there was typing because my handwriting is so bad. They probably would have sent me to like, I don't know. They'll give this kid some help.

All right. We will catch you guys next week on Macro to. very excited mad dog do you know cursive yes also I didn't know we were back in here nice of you to join us as we are concluding no one told me that we were back in here I'm sorry I'm sorry that no one told you check your cell phone yeah you said in a minute no one said we're back in here sorry to hear that um yes I do know cursive yeah Billy just tried to tell us that there was no such thing as uppercase letters in cursive that's dumb yep all right we will see you guys next week on nanodosing coming out Tuesday

Love you guys. Go, Tennessee. Oh, yeah. Go balls. I'm wrapping a sick rowback checkered. I'm bringing in a cigar for big tea tomorrow. It's going to be a nice cigar. Okay.

I was actually looking into purchasing one today. I want to get you this cigar. It'll be a good one. Trust me. You're going to like this cigar. Okay. And then also go GMU, top 25. Just a couple ranked ball clubs.

Billy, what's your school ranked? my school was one of the last undefeated football teams in the country last year oh wow last year that's interesting i'm talking about now i'm talking about here and now don't live in the past billy yeah but last year we could have competed in the college playoff they didn't pick us and they're still trying to keep the dukes out of a bowl game they are they are but again if they go undefeated i'm declaring a national championship yeah absolutely and i'm buying the team rings and a pizza party if they win one of the toughest divisions in college football i'd say that the sunbelt east is more difficult than the ACC, which one is. Coastal. Coastal does not have Clemson.

I mixed that up. The Clemson Division is not bad this year. Atlantic. Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah, so the coastal. The coastal's like Virginia, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech. Yeah. Sunbelt East is better than the ACC Coastal. It's better than the Big Ten West. Yeah. Oh, exponentially better than the Big Ten West. Exponentially. It's better than probably both divisions of, The Pac-12 is pretty good this year. Are they? Yeah. It's a deep. Okay, so we are...

There are legitimately, probably two Power 5 divisions that are not as good as the Sunbelt East. Yep. So we should be in the Power 5. I'm counting us as a Power 5 conference this year. And it's bullshit that they're not letting the kids play in the postseason. So I will be declaring that. But I will buy a cigarette or excuse me, a cigar as well. So we can celebrate together on Saturday.

Looking forward to it. See you. Love you guys. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. Mm. I'm