Macrodosing: Arian Foster and PFT Commenter - Theranos ft. Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: January 18, 2022

On today's Macrodosing, the crew talks about Theranos and Elizabeth Holmes with Ryen Russillo. You'll hear everything from her start to being proven guilty. Ryen even had a bone to pick with Billy Football that almost made him unfollow on all of social media. The Tennessee boys (Hendon Hooker and Tyler Baron) stopped by to talk about the upcoming year with the podcast. Also, P expert and Barstool producer TJ Hitchings pops on to explain the meaning of P. All of this and more on today's show.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/macrodosing

Hey, macrodosing listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Welcome to Macro-dosing. Macro-dosing today is brought to you by our great friends over at Three-C. Three-C is the industry leader in Delta 8 and other THC products, such as vapes, edibles, gummies, and more. Fun fact, I tried some Three-Ci. I think it was a chocolate. It was a candy on Friday night.

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Use promo code macro dosing. Get 5% off your purchase. All right. I got Chick-fil-A that arrived that I'm late for. Are we, are we done? Well, I think that's what. Should we do like an intro? Or I have voicemails, too.

Yeah, we should do like a quick intro to it. Quick intro. We also got to do ads. Ads and then I have-in-the-voice-mails. Yeah. And then voicemails. Do you want to bring your chick-fil-a back? Yeah.

Come on, Billy. Billy just ended the show. Yeah. Come on, Billy. I want that in. I want that in. Yeah, Billy's just like I'm out. I'm done.

All right. Let's start. the show. I guess that can be maybe that's the start of the show. Yeah. The end of the show is the start of the show. Yeah, Billy walking out on the show after the bare minimum amount of podcasting done.

Welcome back to macro dosing. It's the only podcast that you can find online. So you have no choice but to listen to it. Thank you for tuning in. We've got Coley. We've got Big Tea. We've got Billy. We've got Mad Dog. We've got Avery here. No Arian today.

Arian is off doing, I think, think he's just incapacitated today in one form or another it is MLK day so if he just straight up wanted to ghost us and be like fuck you I'm not working I would understand that but regardless just us today and we're going to be getting into Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos with Ryan Rissillo as a special guest he is our Aryan Foster for today he is our Aryan Ryan with noted Aryan Ryan Rissillo to discuss Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos and all the fraud that was perpetrated there it was a good talk we talked about a lot of other stuff besides the subject at hand which is probably what you've come to expect from us by now

but before we get into that I want to talk to you guys here this is not an ad by the way I know that's how I usually start the ads but I had a question for Coley that I was afraid to ask publicly but we're in we're in the circle of trust right now what is what does P stand for you think i like i'm almost at the age where that question i would be like what are you talking about um the person who came up with the term gunna has gone on an explaining rampage to the point where i don't think it means anything anymore pretty much everything uh is and is not

p it's schrodinger's pee no no no is is are you push are you pushing pee that ain't p that ain't p so p is p is any any word that starts with the letter p no not even necessarily because i mean i've listened to song a bunch and it's all based around words they certainly they went heavy with the alliteration in the song for sure i saw someone broke down analytically which of the three pushed the most p uh perverse so who is it uh i think it was future i think future came out on top you can't get out ped on your own on your own P song. Listen, when future is involved, you're going to get out anything.

So that's just how that works. But, I mean, the young thug went on a, he was trying to fly private, as he's one to do. And they kicked everyone off the plane. And he went live. And he said the pilot who kicked him off was not in fact P. I tend to agree with him. Yeah. they said he didn't really give an explanation but yeah Alex was not P

the other pilot was P a pilot I guess was cool he he was actually fine with flying these gentlemen through our friendly skies but Alex wasn't having it and he does not P all right so anything can be P could you imagine trying to explain P to like a war veteran so so P means like like a guy that stormed the beach at where yeah a guy who's like been through so much and like now this thing called just pee is out so P means like valid yeah that's that's a great

it's like are you pushing P yeah that's saying that not P not okay no I am for sure P I'm so P it's out of control maybe okay maybe big T dodging the his high noon can might be P he's big he's big yeah that was that was P

that was P throwing the can at your head not Pee okay Let's think of some other P-no-P Ryan Rusillo later in this episode giving a lot of props to Steve Bannett

Not P. I think that might be P Right, yeah. Big T would say it was P. I think Big T just has a definition of what P is. The New York Rangers. Not P. Not P. They are pushing T. P is for the boys.

That's how Gunna described it specifically. Can I not push P? Like, girls can be boys. Like, I'm for the boys. No, I know that. I'm saying, like, chicks can be, like, boys is a non-gender term. Like, if you're for the boy? A lot of times, yeah.

Boys has lost its gender meaning, much to big peace. Well, gender is... Inclusionary is P? Yes. Being exclusionary is P? No, no. No, exclusionary would not be P. Being inclusive is very P.

Correct. Do you think, all right, so having a nice watch is Pee, but buying the watch is pushing P? That's a Nick, Avery? Yeah, I think it's a fair way to say it, right? Because if you just get a watch, a nice watch, then you have the watch itself is P, but you're not P. Yeah. But then if you go out and you buy the watch

yourself. Like you're at the Rolex store with like bands and you're buying the Rolex, that's pushing P. The whole P thing, it was funny on Friday night with my buddies, like when we were just saying it all the time, but now it's getting out. Oh, sorry, Billy. Sorry that we missed you. We miss Billy's

window of when the joke was fun. 48 hours and now we're so late on it and we're nowhere near as funny as him and his boys on Friday. I would love to be in more of Billy's group chats because I see what he puts in the one that I am in with him and I would like to be in the ones with him and his friends to see what he's spewing in there. I think podcast. Podcasts. Podcasts are P, all of them. Every podcast. We're the world's only podcast. It's true. So we are P. We're the most P. My blood sugar is low and he eat. I'm getting a P expert to come into the office. It's coming to the room and explain okay billy eat your food there's gonna be anyone eat your food try to guess who i think

this is silly say words on a podcast billy eat your food we're not allowed to eat i'm giving you permission to eat what kind of food is it you i can't you say chick fillet yeah eat chick flay not talking on a podcast not pee not who's coming in tj he's been posting about it nonstop okay so billy You're being subbed out. T.J's P. We're bringing in the righty. Billy, no, that's you're right. That's way too much,

Crinkling. Get out of here. Yeah, that was insane. Billy's binging himself. I think Billy did it on purpose, actually. He's like, fine, I'll eat in here and then just crumpled everything up. Enjoy that sandwich, King. So,

get T. How's everybody doing today? Take the pulse of the show. Good. Good. Feeling strong? Billy, get out of the room and stop crumpling. How's your vacation, Koli?

I must apologize because last week I was hitting up Koli being like, hey, are you going to join the Zoom or what? I didn't realize that you were actively off the clock. I should have known after we got an email from Nate who's the editor-in-chief when Koli's not the editor-in-chief. Is that a thing that happened? I didn't see that. Yeah, he sent an email out like explaining to us how to blog.

And so we could only assume that meant that Koli was not around. So Nate was just like, he was just buzzing everything. everybody's tower letting us know who was in charge. I also received one text message from Coley that said the libs have paper straws down here in Florida. Oh, yeah. Thank you for bringing that up. Florida and Big T's number one candidate, Desantis, is not pee.

Well, it's all those ocean freaks that are like, if you use a plastic straw, it's going to end up in a turtles. If he's crumbling to the slightest bit of pushback, like, this guy's got no spine. He could be. He's P. I've yet to see a P politician. You haven't watched enough to Santis, bro. He's for sure.

No. Arnold Schwarzenegger? This place was a liberal paradise. Yeah. Arnold Schwarzenegger's P. Yeah. Confirm. Jesse Ventura, he's P.

For sure. Yeah. Jerry Springer, P. Oh, my boy, Fetterman, big P. Pete, the dude from Pennsylvania? The biggest. Yeah, the biggest guy from Pennsylvania. P.

Yeah, but any, what about Nancy Pelosi? not pee decidedly not pee Nancy Olosi is what I call she's pulling pee she's bolosi with a B emoji I don't even know what's got me that was so you might be asking whose voice is that we hear a different voice on this podcast yes it is TJ hey what's up

TJ's here what's up TJ is the biggest Rutgers fan in the world thank you he's also lokey genius video editor Is that an accurate description? I appreciate that. If you were to tell somebody what your job is here at Barstle, what do you tell them? I keep it pee.

Okay. We got the right guy. Now, did anybody understand what that meant until last Friday? I think Roan did, but Roan's definitely P so that makes sense. All right, got you. So explain to us, we're having a debate

over what is and what isn't P and Big T is just taking us wildly off the reels with it because I don't think Big T knows what P is. No, that's, you're not Pee then. You just said Ron DeSantis is P. He is P. He's going to be the P resident.

If there's like the most diehard supporter of a politician, you can't be like my guy's P. Well, we're talking about P and then you brought up a guy. I don't want my politicians to be P. I didn't know what P meant until five minutes ago, but now Ron DeSantis for sure P. All right. So T.J. explained to us, walk us through. Like the cultural importance? Yeah.

So it's, I believe Rone said it originates an oak. And then Young Thug and Gunna picked it up and Future. And they just, like, made it a thing in the last, like, two weeks seemingly. And it's just pushing P. That's just being, you know, a player and being P. So is P, can we tie it? What's the word? Etymologically.

It's like if you, like, you either have P or you don't. And if you ask, do I have P, that's not P. I know. Like, I get what P is. Right. And if you even try to explain. what you're doing right now to us is probably not P

correct I would agree with them yeah yeah putting P in your Twitter name though that's P yeah there we go of the six people in this not including yourself in this room and on the Zoom call how many have P you don't have to name them let's not have P so you're definitely out okay how many are pushing P

probably three yeah I would agree I would agree which three I'd say PFT Hell yeah I'm pee bitch You're just pandering

Suck my dick And were you clicking the Zoom? Because Collie is Yeah I said on the Zoom Yeah Hmm Aryan for sure Yeah

Unless he's talking about Avatar If he's on an avatar Rant It's the leach thing about him for sure Actually no he's switched up now Now he's obsessed with Ready Player 1 He's not even obsessed with Ready Player 1 He's obsessed with making

Other people having seen it Ready Player 1 I love the idea that Aryan's only ever seen two movies. It's that tweet. What's the movie they talk about? It's like, I'm getting really big, like, Alice and Wonderland vibes from this. Yeah, I think Aryan might sneaky just love every single movie, but he's only seen two. Yeah.

And he thinks that's what movies are. That's me with Broadway. I've seen two things on Broadway. I love them both. Oh, Book of Mormon and what else? Hamilton. Okay. I saw Book of Mormon on Friday.

Amazing. The one song I said would shock you. The song, The Fuck You God song? Yeah. Asadika I'm aware or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, great song. It didn't shock me.

But I did, as they were singing that song, I was singing myself, I was imagining Big Tee in the audience watching it. I was taken aback at some of the language. Gradually, as the song reveals itself for what it is, Big T just like staring like Chris Farley when they tell them that it's not actual coffee, that it's instant, like slowly realizing what they're saying. Like, I knew, I knew what the play was about when I went to see it. And, like, that, none of, it was just the, the terminology in that song was shocking. Yeah. It was, it was a very good play, though. I love Broadway.

Is Broadway P? Yeah, it can be. I think musicals are. I don't know if, like, regular theater is. I think a play is not, a play isn't P, but a musical could be P. I think that the, like, Rock of Ages is. You can have a play that's P for sure. Yeah.

There might not be one that comes to mind right now, Like rent? I feel like rent is pretty P. Is that a play? It's a musical. Sure, a musical. What's a play? Like, what's only a play?

McBath. Ooh, to kill a mockingbird. It's the only play that we know. So, TJ, this was the question I had. Yeah. So let's say you have a Rolex. The Rolex is P.

Right. But is the act of buying the Rolex pushing P? I guess it probably depends where you buy it from. Like if you just like went to the mall and bought a Rolex, it's not P. What if you steal? If you bought it off a jeweler, though, that could be paid okay like icebox i also saw gunna specifically being like if you if you're spending all of your money on that rolex and you have no other money that is not big yeah if you steal it is that pee

probably super p yeah what okay what if you submit like a rebate to get 20% of your cash back from purchasing absolutely no okay what if you buy with colds cash is that peak food stamps yeah camel cash what if you say we're saving camel cash and shoeboxes in your closet. Is that P? No. Like they had a private flight back to New York the other day and their pilot canceled it because one of them didn't have physical ID on them and they just

were on Instagram live in his face with the camera saying Alex the pilot not P and then people showed up to their concert wearing Alex's not P T-shirts. All of that's Pee except for the pilot. I love it. I love that. You don't need an ID to fly. Tell them like Google me. They wouldn't let them fly.

It's Gunna. They wouldn't let them fly. Gunna could have been like just Google it. Like look up Google Images for Gunna. That's me. I'm on your plane. Right. Pilots, man. Alex does not P. Not P.

We're an anti-Alex the pilot podcast. For sure. Big time. We should turn our Twitter handle. Not the actual handle, but just the name of it. I'll change it to like macrodosing. P. Odd cast.

I'll do that right now. All right, TJ. Thank you for the explanation. Is there anything that like any takes you've been looking to get off your chest? What are you guys talking about? We're talking about Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos. today oh she's a freak yeah she's a freak elite yeah yeah no I mean the more I learn about it the more I'm like all right say what you want about this lady but I

bet you she gets after it yeah yeah she's passionate she's a very passionate woman any other conspiracies that you just like truly believe in have you guys done Paul McCartney yet about him being dead no that's one I would talk about okay if you guys ever bring that up and need a need some input on it okay I was gonna say I feel like we could fold that in to like all of, like the Avril Levine. Yeah, celebrity deaths. Yeah, people who might be dead.

I like that. I like that. All right. Thank you. Thank you, TJ. We appreciate you. Thanks. Everybody go follow TJ on his various social media platforms.

We love them. Especially if you're a Rutgers fan and you don't follow at T.J. Hitchings, then I think you're completely out of the loop. So he's a must, must follow. welcome back billy how's your chick fly it's good as your blood sugar rising it's i'm fine now can you can't you can't overwork me that many hours between meals you specifically said it was the easiest prep you've ever had for an episode yeah yeah you did say that but then i got hungry you can't overwork me it's a joke it was a joke who's kidding he was in a bit um

So, Billy, tell us about some of the prep that you did. We're going to get to Ryan Rusillo in a second because he's very, he cares about the subject a lot, but I want to know which you have. No, so I just, I watched the documentary a couple months ago, and then the Wikipedia has a very good amount of information on it, as well as some of the articles from the contemporary period of 2008 stuff on her background. Elizabeth Holmes grew up, the daughter of an Enron vice president, and, you know, was. very accomplished throughout her life, starting when she was a young child, when she wanted to invent a time machine, something that she conceptualized and drew pictures of. It looked good in design, but like many things she designed, it didn't actually have the ability besides the drawings of what it was to actually travel through time, much like her newest. I mean, it's

actually a genius idea on her part to invent a time machine. Yeah. She's really good. at that turns out just like conceptualizing things and then drawing them and saying that she invented them but then never actually you don't have you let somebody else do the work behind the scenes but you can tell she just had like her parents probably like oh yeah like you can do it one day you got this as the episode unfolded and like i'd known knew about her and things like this but the thought couldn't escape me is there any difference other than biologically we can point to between her and Elon Musk because I cannot find one.

Well, Elon Musk did develop a product that objectively works. It does not objectively work. They just recalled 50% of all active guys that are on the road. It does not work. Some of them work. None of what she did works.

That's not true. One of her 200 patents got passed. So wait, wait. 50% of all Tesla's got recalled. Yeah, I haven't even heard about that. Is that? Yeah, 50% that are currently on the road, 25% all time

that were produced have been recalled. We got to let Blake Foyles now. Elon Musk's, the way he makes money is not through the cars. Correct. He does it by saying he's going to do things that he doesn't actually do much like he knows. I mean, he makes money by selling his

carbon credits to other car companies. Correct. But he also does a lot of posturing publicly about building things that he simply does not build. Okay, Tesla is recalling 475,000 of its model. 3 and Model S electric cars to address rearview cameras and trunk issues that increase the risk of crashing, the U.S. Road Safety Regular said on Thursday, around 200,000 vehicles will be recalled

in China. That's their, I think, their second biggest market. So, yeah, that seems like, it seems like a lot of recalls going on right now. Yeah, it's the, it's, I believe it's the majority of that are currently on the road, and I believe I read 25% all time that they've ever produced. his rockets tend to work don't they sometimes yeah but like he's just kind of blasts him up there yeah he has all these he has all these grand idea i mean she's been on this case for a long time but it's like he's talked about like he's claimed pretty much to invent tunnels like in buses which are things we already had and holmes whole thing was like which we get into like she was just going to someone else to run these tests and doing them wrong, which is also what Musk seems

to be doing. Yeah, Elon, his tunnel had traffic in it. So the idea behind the tunnel was that it would never, it would never be congested. And I saw a video the other week of them and there was, it was like very slow traffic moving. There was like a traffic jam in the tunnel. They should build a second lane in the tunnel. And if they built that second lane, I feel like that would resolve their traffic issue. So Elon Musk, feel free to hire me. I'm an ideas guy. I'm a guy. much like you, I feel like we would get along handsomely. What's the deal with Elon Musk and naming the company Tesla? I feel like there's a small group of people that fancy themselves to be the best thinkers in America or in the world

that have an obsession with Tesla, Nikola Tesla, who is a rival of Thomas Edison's, I believe. I might be butchering this. But they think that he got a raw deal back in the day? like a Shakespeare and the guy that Shakespeare copied off of situation wasn't Tesla wasn't there a conspiracy that he was killed yeah okay

I thought like the FBI had most of Tesla's information like still Oh should you want to go next next week's episode Tesla because there's a lot there We can do that I think those people might be correct

I think Tesla was kind of He was that guy. Tesla was P. Hmm. Hmm. Oh, hell yeah. Guys, breaking news. John Hinkley is starting a band.

Who's that? He's a guy that shot, I think he shot Reagan. What? But he got out of jail. He's still alive? Yeah. He got out of jail. And he's starting a band looking for a bass player drummer and lead guitarist.

If he would like to be in my band and are serious about this, in bio. If you don't do that, like you're not serious about content. Well, so Big T is encouraging me to team up with a guy that shot right on Twitter. I just, I think that would be incredible content. Does he have a Twitter account? He does, and he doesn't follow anybody. When did he join Twitter?

John Hinkley 20, holy shit. I'm going to have to write a song. I'm going to have to write a song asking John Hinkley to let me join his band. That's going to be, you just got to get him and pop, Punk's ever growing. Why don't you just get him? You already have the rest of the framework. He's the new lead. I mean, what would be a more punk rock song than writing a song about wanting to shoot the president? Especially that president. That's so punk. Like, that's basically all 80s punk bands wrote about anyways was trying to kill Ronald Reagan. Did you know, he's only 66 years old? Oh, really? If you had asked me how old he was, I would have guessed he was dead, but I would have said like 90.

Wow. Okay. So I'm going to have to audition. I'm going to go home. I'm going to write a song. God, he's got 23 and a half thousand subscribers on YouTube. Yeah, I'm going to go home, write a song about wanting to be in a band. What was his ideology to shoot Reagan? What was... He wanted to impress Jody Foster. Seriously? Yeah, one of those natural A plus B equals C things.

Like, who among us? Step one, shoot Ronald Reagan, step two, marry Jody Foster. So he's in that order. So he's crazy? Yes. huh um so i've heard worse plans like theranos like theranos let's get to talking with ryan rousillo about theranos before we get to ryan rousillo i want to talk to you guys about her great friends over at sport clips you can go to grandmas for the holidays but don't go

where she cuts her hair sport clips are the pros and men's hair i don't take my broken phone screen to a mechanic for the same reason i don't trust my hair in the hands of my grandma's stylist. I want someone who specializes me and the experts at sport clips are trained specifically for guy's hair. If it's long hair, curly, short, thinning, thick, chubby face, skinny, whatever your look, they know how to cut and shape your hair to fit you the best. Afterwards, you might even get a pinch on cheek from grandma. Sport clips, they're the pros in men's hair. Check them out. Sport clips, sport clips. Great, great company. We love sport clips. And don't forget about their legendary hot steam towel.

Love that. Love that. There's no better feeling in the world than when you get your hair cut at sport clips. They give you the hot towel at the end. The most refreshing feeling in the world. They are the pros when it comes to men's hair. So we do welcome you on this show. You've been a recurring guest on part of my take in the past.

You might recognize Ryan Rusillo from his many podcasts on the ringer. You may recognize him from the Rusillo and SVP show, or was it SVP and Rusillo? Oh, it was SVP, and then it was SVP and we're still out. Year five. Year five. Yeah, we got there. I used to, I think I've told you this before, but I used to listen to you guys at lunch on my lunch break when I had a job that I hated in Austin. And so I'd go out to my car.

And that would be like the highlight of my day would be listening to your radio show. And I'd like get to laugh and think about sports for a little bit. And then I'd have to slug my sorry ass back into my job until I started going back in like 15 minutes late, 20 minutes late. Then I got reprimanded. Then eventually I was like, fuck this. I'm out. Yeah. You got me through some very hot summer days in the moments. You know what it was, actually? I was in Austin, and I used to listen to Alex Jones on my lunch break every day, which is, no offense, way more entertaining than you and Scott Van Pelt. Like, incredible, incredible content. And they took him off the air. He got shadow banned by the terrestrial radio for a while. He had to take, like, a week off work. Maybe he was in the hospital or something. Maybe he had some family court issues he had to deal with. But it was, it was. in that week that I started to listen to you guys at lunch.

And I never looked back at Alex Jones. So thank you because we're not for you guys. I might be full radicalized by now. I might have been in the Capitol on January 6th. Yeah, or just maybe like looking into it. Yeah. I'm doing a lot of research. What's Travelocity say about this week?

Yeah, the Alex Jones thing's crazy. I love him seeing the videos of Alex Jones and somebody like goes at him. And he's like, let's fight right now. I know Billy must love that. And he just be like, some guy gives him the finger and be like, let's go. When he's on this street, there's like one video where he's just like chasing a guy. It's like classically like one of the best memes ever. But yeah, I respect his aggression though.

He comes out swinging. He does. He's like he's always looking to fight. That's his first course of action. It's like, you know, you're going to talk shit about me. You won't fight me. But I've noticed he only does that to people that are definitely people that don't look like. they've been in physical encounters. He's a big accoster. I wouldn't say he's like he likes to

accost people on the street. He's a fascinating guy to me. Like Alex Jones is one of those people that I just I'll read anything that you write about him. I want to know more and more about his history. I don't agree with virtually anything the guy has ever said about anything, but I can't stop listening to him. It's great. He's got like a mind control thing on me. I actually thought yesterday when I was watching the Cowboys play and Mike McCarthy was just getting wider and redder throughout the game he's got a little Alex Jones thing going on when you when you said virtually anything can you think of one thing Alex Jones has said that you're like I kind of agree with that uh let's see what do I agree with him on um what a burger fries or trash he hates waterburger fries he's on

he's on record saying like he'll go he'll get a hamburger at waterburger and then he'll drive to McDonald's to get their fries and he'll bring the waterburger into the McDonald's so he can eat the burger in there while eating the McDonald's fries. I think low-key, that's a genius move. I don't hate that. The Bonnie Bear video voiceover of him is one of the greatest pieces of art we have in modern history. I mean, it should have won a Grammy, whatever those guys were that did that. And then when it just breaks out all Alex Jones' takes, I think it's, I'm immature in certain ways.

but when you're an adult with a forum and you're going to be critical of somebody and you say they smell bad you just be like I bet that person smells bad like sulfur yeah it's just such an incredible because there's this part in that body bear video where they're talking about somebody who's with Hillary all the time and of course he's just trashing with Dems

and he's pointing out during the rant that he's like there's this other woman that's with Hillary all the time she just looks like she smells bad and you're just going to like to get to that part and we're like, hey, that line about hers, make sure you get that in. That was good. Yeah, yeah. And you run through.

Yeah, we played that song in the first episode of macrodosing. I brought it and played it for everybody. And the thing is, with that whole smells bad thing and the reference to sulfur, I'm pretty sure he's ripping off biblical references. Oh, yeah, no, he's saying that Hillary Clinton is the devil, that people that are around her will tell you that there's an odor of sulfur. Yeah. I know y'all saw it because I put it in the macrodosing group chat.

she's making a comeback she is pushing it yeah thank god i think we were all looking forward to to more Hillary clinton yeah so she's going to run for president again that's what the wall street journal wants Jesus well it's what one guy from the journal who apparently did the same thing when Obama had gone through his first four years and said Hillary should come back and run so now she's doing it again with Biden um it's the same person so like other political writers are like this guy's actually doing this again which would be i don't know the equivalent of a sports take, it would be like Brett Farms coming back.

Yeah, but it might be like saying so-and-so should draft this player and then eight years later saying trade for him now. Yeah, I don't know. Like, that's how Billy would be with Sam Ellinger or Chad Kelly. Yeah, Chad Kelly. That's Billy

with Swag Kelly right there. You won't find a bigger Swag Kelly supporter than him. But there were those people like, Andrew Luck's kind of that guy right now where you can just bring his name up every offseason and be like, you go out there and try to get Andrew Luck to come back. Except you saw him at the National Championship game and he probably weighs like 180 pounds.

He looks like he's gone like hippie. Like he looks like very, you know, he could tell. It was always a little different. I mean, he didn't have TV. He said that when I went to visit him at Stanford and interviewed him, he was like he didn't have a phone or he had an old phone, which we always freak out whenever we hear about a guy with a flip-flower, like, hey, let's do 20 minutes on this.

But he said the only show he watched the office and the only way he would watch it is he would go to Whalen. I think the receiver there, the little white kid who played lacrosse, he was like, I go to, he told me, he's like, I go to his room. So, and then for him to walk away, even though, you know, look, the Colts did a bad job the first time through protecting him, and he was carrying them. So I'm a huge Andrew Luck fan.

I stand up for him all the time. But for you to walk away from it means, you know, okay, well, if you're okay, not playing, then I'm not sure that I want you to be the guy. And you're right. He looks, he looked like an extra on, you know, the Black Pearl movie or something. I just want to know what his day to day it looks like nowadays. I guarantee you he's a guy that wakes up super early. He brews his own coffee. Like, he's got the most expensive coffee accessories that you can ever order. He goes dummy at William Sonoma and gets like his own roaster. He grinds his shit. He's got one of those pour over things that looks like a giant bong when you see it and you don't know exactly

how it works until your friend's rich girlfriend tells you exactly what it is. That's what I think of when I think of Andrew, like a guy that takes his Java extremely, extremely seriously. And then he probably reads a book. I bet he reads some intense stuff though. Like he'd be like, do you know that the first dormers are actually Madrid so they could get a better gauge at wind currents? And that's why the New England transition. A lot of that New England architecture is actually influenced by early Madrid seascapes.

And you just be like, whoa, okay. Actually, he might be an amazing, we should try to get him on the show, see what he's been thinking about lately. Do you think he knows what a podcast is? Honestly, I think he may be the greatest untapped podcaster of all time. All right? Like, remember he was reading about, I remember there was one piece on him when he was getting drafted about how he was obsessed with

concrete in different types of structural integrity of concrete and i actually remember being like hell yeah like what like what what we talk what let's talk concrete go off king yeah no you're billy's right i think andrew lug's brain is like an untapped resource it's like a forest that we're that's halfway across the world we're setting off to discover and bring back spices and riches and gold yeah he's a big he told us before he's day if he even played football he's going to be an architect yeah yeah concrete thing checks out yeah yeah i I remember reading, I think it was Peter King did a, you know, Peter King does these things where he spends four hours with a guy before the draft, and then he writes about

his entire life and the person that he is based on like the four hours that this guy elected to show Peter King. And Peter was just blown away. He was like, this guy is going to be a Hall of Famer. He was taking me all around Chicago and pointing out architecture to me. And so he had Peter King's heart at that point. He was like, okay, this kid, this kid is quirky. He's smart.

He's inquisitive. but yeah that's uh that's it that's into luck he's interested in stuff like architecture i bet you he he strikes me as a guy that might in his in his later days get really into civil war history and civil war reenactments that's a special kind of guy that becomes a civil war guy i think he has it in him i hope he's building stuff i hope he's applying that stuff like imagine if we like he had some ranch and then like you go on there it's just like insane buildings that he's just been like messing around with a lean to yeah and a place it doesn't even make any sense.

Do you guys remember? I love that Peter. By the way, the Peter Gang story, because it also means every year there's a guy that goes, I'm never doing that again. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

He's like, okay, Andrew Luck might have liked Peter King, though. I could see, I could see Andrew Luck calling him up. You know, hey, Peter, you want to get together and talk about microbrews?

This is funny because you won't even realize that how topical this was. But when the new Cowboys Stadium opened and I went to the first game ever, It was actually Oklahoma against BYU. There was a college game in there before there was a Cowboys game. So we went to it.

Bradford got hurt, shoulder. And everybody talked about the jumbo screen, you know, whatever. And people were worried that it was going to come into play in the games. And then Peter King, in just a massive example of how ridiculous we can be about things, he was like, what's to stop a quarterback from dropping back on, third and eight and not liking what he sees and throwing it directly at the video screen just to get a do-over until he sees something he likes. And it was so, because no one he doesn't.

It's like no one's done it for like 10 plus years. We had a punt hit it the other night and a do-over. But Peter King was like, what's, you know, third and eight, clock's about to run out, you know, you need, you're down four. Why not just throw it at the screen? Peter King, he's a guy that needs to ring his hands, about something at all times and he also thinks he knows a ton about football when in reality peter king just he just has phone numbers of people that know a lot about football but i don't think

he's absorbed a single bit of like football strategy or common sense about the game over the 30 40 years he's been doing it he just he just gets quotes from people and then he writes glowing things about the people that will talk to him that's his basic strategy um you guys should by the way read peter king go back and read all his archives. He's one of the most unintentionally hilarious people out there. Totally. Because he would lose his mind about stuff. You're like, hey, nobody's on your side on this.

You know that, right? Yeah, Darren Sharper, you remember that? He's like, out of nowhere, out of absolutely nowhere. Peter King's like, Darren Sharper, by the way, I would vote for him for the Hall of Fame. And Darren Sharper, you may remember he's in prison for like multiple rapes right now, like violent rapist. And Peter King was just, no one was asking Peter King about this. But he was like, hey, for the. record, I would vote Darren Sharper into the Hall of Fame

because... Out of nowhere. Out of nowhere. No, this was not a discussion people were having. He's like, because I think it should only count what you do on the field, whether or not you should be in the Hall of Fame. And then people were like, okay, Peter, this was... Like, first of all, I don't think Darren Sharper is going to get into the Hall of Fame, but

I understand that, like, you want to make a point that you... If it came down to it, that's what your moral line is. Like, you're... You have a code in terms of your vote. Darren Sharper. I'm just going to say I feel like Darren Sharper is most remembered

for the Greg Jennings' mad video. That's what the youths know Darren Sharper for. Hot is hitting safety league. I was out in New Orleans one night and he was in the mix. Oh, really? Yeah. What do you mean? What do you define in the mix? There was a million of us all football guys

whether it was former players or on the broadcast and we were in New Orleans and he just kind of like showed up. with other people, and he was just hanging, lurking in the background. And then once everything came to, I was like, oh, my God. Like, think about that, that, you know, he was out about, again, it was almost all guys. It was all guys from work.

It was after a national championship game, you know, 10-something years ago. But the Sharper thing, I heard stories because I have bunch of friends that live down there. And it's horrible. I mean, it doesn't even need to be, you know, talked about, really. he was just a fucking predator man yeah but Peter King would put him in the Hall of Fame for the record yeah no one no one asked but in but he was wondering sometimes I often sit around thinking about that when a player is convicted of a crime what does Peter King think about this man before I fully formulate my my own I should have him on you should have him on no can't do it

part of my take can't do it we've had him on in the past he was he was one of our very first guest actually I'm part of my take and then he disavowed us Peter King disavowed us because of I think it was it was something that Dave said I think and then Peter King's like I like the part of my take guys they're quirky and funny and weird but I can no longer

associate with Barstool Sports and for the record we bought Peter King lunch when we were out in San Francisco which goes against journalistic integrity and ethics he never offered to reimburse us I think he was Big Cat $50 for in and out and he just

That's a lot 50 bucks If you owe somebody 50 bucks for a lunch You would think that you would at least offer to pay Right even if you don't expect that the person Will allow you to pay you have to You gotta reach for the wallet or ask Was just 50? I know, are you 50? We may have We may be adjusting for inflation over the years

An interest I mean that's fair you got a lot of inflation to just for these days We got them two burgers we have two milkshakes And two fries wait two milkshakes In the same sitting? Yeah, well, we gave him a lot of stuff. I think he was saying that he was going to give some to one of his, one of his sycophants, but it might have just been for him. We don't know.

Who does two milkshakes? Peter King. Peter King, baby. You know what you could have done? It's had Billy cook them eggs. I almost unfollow Billy the other day when I saw your egg picture. Who taught you how to cook eggs? No, so what I do is I have like a good pan that I use for sometimes making crazy.

So I like to make my scrambled eggs, like I make my crepes because they have that little bit of crisp on the outside. So I put it in and I fold it up almost like an omelet. And I don't like I put some like, you know, milk in there. And so it's more of a fluffy scrambled egg. It isn't fluffy. You cook the shit out of it. Yeah. I've got a real thing with eggs.

Like I see all these international videos of people cooking eggs and they just cook the shit out of them. And at that point, it's just egg particle. You gotta get some air in there, man. You gotta get them fluffed out. Like, I don't, I cannot. You don't, though. You singe the shit out of it. Well, no, but if you look, if you see on the outside,

it's more of a golden, like the outside of a craper, a pancake. Billy, an egg is not a pancake, though. I agree with Ryan where when I look at your pictures of your eggs and it's brown and crispy and flat on the outside, I have a visceral reaction to seeing that brown edge of the egg. You fold it over and then the middle is all fluffy. It's almost like. understand how folding works, but I'm still getting

bites of burnt fucking egg residue. But it's crispy. It's like the outside. So you like the texture. You think of the burnt egg as the crouton of the morning breakfast. I think it's better than like, because everyone's had like really bad like, you know,

dining hall eggs that are just like wet, like gooey and they're just sort of like the texture's terrible. This makes it a little more like put together and almost a little more sophisticated in my mind. I don't think it's sophisticated. Well, we can do

a little egg making next time. We're all together. I think that what Billy's going through right now, though, when I look at pictures of his food, it is a perfect flashback in my own mind to when I was like 21, 22 years old and the ways that I used to cook things because everybody had the same kitchen equipment back then. You had

like some plates that were from Target that your mom got you when you were a freshman in the dorms. If you hadn't shattered those yet, you took those with you to your first house. You have the one pan and it's like a big flat pan that's one of those synthetic nonstick things that's got the black surface on it hell yeah you know what i'm talking about and it's technically non-stick but you also beat the shit out of it with uh metal spatulas and until you scrape all that shit off

there but for a while it's going to be a non-stick um and then that's that's you cook everything in that one pan and then you convince yourself that you basically have your own cast iron because It's the same pan that you use for everything. And you just burn. You just burn. That's all you do. Anything coming out of that pan is either burned or it's raw. Look, I'm out there surviving.

Just one guy living in an apartment, making his own meals. So that's what I'm putting out these days. Where do you live, Billy? Around the office. No. Are you in Manhattan or are you in New Jersey? No, I'm in New Jersey. Yeah.

Taxes are too much in Manhattan for Billy. Given his income level, he has to go out to New Jersey to really save. I also, they don't require vaccine cards anywhere. It's a major part of it, yeah. I also have a vaccine card, so it's just funny. I'm looking at a picture of these eggs. They are pancake eggs. You've somehow managed to turn eggs into flapjacks, Billy.

Yeah. It is disgusting. People don't know how to cook them, is my point, is that the number of people cooking eggs versus the number of you will actually understand how to cook them. And again, everybody has different styles of what they want to do. But when I see, like, I'll see some video with some guy cooking some thing, right? And he lays down the egg stuff. He doesn't even scramble it.

It's just an egg. And then it just cooks the shit as he puts everything on top of it. And then he folds it all up. And you're like, all you did was just burn the hell out of all your eggs. Like, they're not going to taste good now. And everybody's accepted it. Well, I just felt like I saw when I saw Billy's content, I went, oh, here we go. He's another one.

Also, I know that I'm not the best cook. And I know that it gets people irrationally angry when I post my mediocre meals. So I like that. Billy, you put the caption of that picture of your eggs, is super gremlin. Like, those eggs are super gremlin. You went gremlin mode on those. My favorite. I can't even be mad at Billy.

No, you can't. My favorite comment was, it was burn calories, not food. Yeah. Also, Billy's supplement routine that he has all of us on. Yeah, what are you guys doing right now? Reeking havoc. Reeking havoc. Billy, my prostate fell out of my dick last week because Billy gave me so much weird stuff

It's probably unauthorized by the SDA. There's just a lot on. Literally, I have them on the, like the strongest thing I have them on is tribulous terrestrous, which is just like produces a lot of LSH, which makes your testicles produce more testosterone. Keep your hands off my testicle. My testicles should not be part of this. So if you look at the feedback loop, your pituitary glands produces LSU, which is lutinizing, stimulating hormone, which then goes down to your testes, and it hits your lay dig cell.

and makes them to create more testosterone. So that is what I'm literally, your tea is so high right now and everyone's just getting mad at me because someone's prostate's a little swollen. No, because you made our tea high. Like, we are the monster that you created. You gave me super high levels of tea and you're surprised that I'm pissed off at you.

Of course I am. I've got his tea is so high. My tea is. Do you feel different? No, I feel exactly the same, except I have to piss every five minutes. You like get insane pumps nowadays. That is true. When I work out, I'm very vascular. I do feel the pump. We were doing pull-ups in here the other day. And after I was done, I would just look at my arms. And Billy's like, yo, that's a sick pump. And I was like, you're right. I actually feel like I've got a sick pump going. So there's that. And you've probably been higher energy, too. You just haven't noticed it because you're too busy being high energy and happy. Yeah, and I'm too busy doing to think about doing. Exactly. Yeah. Do you know Coley? Ryan, Coley joined.

Yeah. Yeah. What's up, man? How's it going, pal? Good, good. I think the last time I saw you was when I was in the city. Yeah, I stopped by. I don't know. I think I saw it. It was the old office. We stood by the water cooler and just talked about basketball for about an hour

straight. Yeah. No, I know. You're the guy to blame for all the Red Sox demise, right? Because as soon as you showed up and everything, start going the other way. Listen, people blame me. Other people blamed Eduardo Rodriguez for doing the wrist at Correa. Neither of us are on the team anymore.

So it remains to be seen who they really fault for that. that. Yeah, that was a good Red Sox run. It was unexpected. And I just, uh, I wasn't even disappointed. It was weird. You know, back in the day, I would have been absolutely. I'd still be upset about it. But after, I don't know, a bunch of World Series titles, you start to move on from it. So we could do an hour on the Red Sox with BFT and Billy one. Yeah, let's do it. I kid a fuck with Red Sox. Grady Little gets a bad rap, true or false. No, he doesn't get bad enough of rap. Let's cook. When Pedro's looking back into the dugout, being like, are you serious? Yeah.

Are you serious with this? Do you know Woj has an original piece where he's like, let's not take it all out on Grady Little? No, I need to read it. Yeah, it exists. It exists. And honestly, that's kind of the point. Like, if you can go back hitter by hitter in 2003,

which none of us want to do, listeners definitely don't want us to. There was a left-right matchup where you kind of went, all right, I can see why Grady Little is doing what he's doing. But Pedro very clearly at a certain point in those playoff games, high-stress pitches, He just was, and when he's looking back in the dugout being like, you fucking seriously leaving me out here and then everybody's teeing off on him.

It wasn't the greatest time I've ever had. I had to be on the air in Boston the next morning at 6 a.m. And my co-host was bawling. It's crying. That's great radio, though. He was a man. He was a grown man with family and stuff. He was like, message to the patch, the Bruins and Celtics, you're not going to get the job done.

Don't even bother. And then there was like some kid who was in the PA program. There was a huge Yankees fan. And he started like waving a Yankees flag. in the lobby of the radio station and it was all glass so we could see everything and he was waving it like this and guys went up to him being like hey there's like three dudes who work here want to beat the shit out of you in the parking lot like real like it's not a joke so either put the flag down and go home or like understand you're going to get beat up and this isn't going to be an

HR thing it was pretty weird yeah that was um that was kind of a weird era in boston sports where it was after you won a super bowl right but you still yeah the first super bowl you're still very much had that complex, the little brother complex at the time. The Red Sox thing at that point still dwarfed everything else. I don't know I don't know what it's like now are the past the number one thing in Boston?

It feels that way. But back then, I mean, it was the Red Sox. I mean, the Red Sox were no worse than two at any other point. I've never put, and people have yelled at me about it. I've never put anyone above the Red Sox even like I think Brady as an individual got above the Red Sox as you see

with most of the region not even upset that we got housed by the bills because they just moved right on to the bucks. But I don't think the Patriots ever got ahead of the Red Sox. Like when the Red Sox were still cooking, people showed up. Like it's Fenway. There's nothing that can really get. I know like the sports hub likes to shit on them because they don't have the rights,

but they're the only people who, like they told people not to root for the team this year. And this was one of the more fun teams to watch, especially once they got rolling. And I don't know. Like, I've always said the Celtics were dead last. Like, I obviously didn't see the bird era at all. But it's like a Red Sox town. And inside the city, like the ruins have been two in my eyes. Like, I don't.

Inside the city. Wow. That's crazy. Yeah. I mean, I lived there from 2002-ish to almost 2009. So I was there for, you know, some really good stuff. But towards the last three years I lived there, I was trying back and forth to ESPN the entire time. So it wasn't like I would, it's kind of a weird setup.

because my Boston shithole apartment was basically a closet and then I'd stay in a hotel in Connecticut. But I imagine in the 80s, the Celtics probably surpassed anything, even though you had the World Series of Super Bowl appearance in the middle of it and everything. But I don't know. I can't imagine too many people want to do this. I always feel like the Red Sox, no matter what, though, would be one.

I just felt like I had more and more friends that were into the Patriots than the Red Sox part of it. And I think maybe the COVID season pissed off so many Red Sox fans that maybe it was the first time. that people, you know, we're willing to turn on them a little bit. I mean, it was the COVID season and, like, you take the best player you've developed

since Ted Williams and you just ship them to L.A. Like, both of those things happen simultaneously. Like, there wasn't a big reason to support them during that 2020. No, no, not at all. And that's why this past year was such a surprise. But I want PFT to take it back

because I know he's going to listen to you and I go off here. No, I was hoping, like, could we, let's rank forward. words on the Bruins right now. Who's number two? Who should be on that second line right now? Because a lot of people are saying that some of the second line is outproducing

the first line at times. And I want to know your take on that. I mean, I think the only true way to have a Boston sports conversation that really fits this show is to ask Ryan how he feels about the government siop known as Inez Freedom. Good point. We talked about him last week, right?

yeah i look will kane is my friend um but i love that he had anis freedom on only because he was going to go at lebron yeah like there's no there's no version of that interview happening unless it's like wait he's going at lebron and he's calling out lebron like all right enous come along and you know uh i don't know man i you know i i think from from the 10,000 foot view i mean i mean anybody that's down for people being treated better? Like, why would you, why would you, you know, want to tell that person he's doing something wrong with his energy or spending his time in the wrong way? I can't help but think at times it's a little bit about getting some attention to.

Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think Canter is like, you know how they develop the A10? The A, excuse me, freedom, is like the A10 Wardhog, the plane that was designed to just, like, for one job, take out tanks. Like, people do only talk. to him just to have him say something about LeBron. He is the LeBron

stopper in the media. That's like, that's what he does. They bring him in, they're like, so what do you think about China? Tell us about China, Eanis. And then, you know, they get him wound up and then sometimes he'll go off the rails and start talking about some other injustices and the people that are interviewing them are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's

let's keep this focused on LeBron and China. Yeah, I thought it was, I was like, oh, okay, this, this all checks out. because I'm trying to think of, oh, it wasn't even his fault, but he went on CNN and he went on Fox, right? After he had the shoes, LeBron, you know, basically bowing to China. And one, I forget which one it was, but one place introduced him and said, well, he's a defensive stopper on the court

and also a defender of freedoms. And I was like, wait a minute. Well, it's like he's actually, if he could play average defense, fucking guy being the Hall of Fame. He's one of the best around the rim Bigs that you're ever going to see. And then the other station, and again, I don't remember which one was which. It was like NBA

superstar. And it's kind of like that Bachelor thing where these guys come on. And then Billy, I don't want to bring up any bad memories, but you know, guys go on the bachelor, like former professional football player now retired. And it's like, well, when'd you retire? He's like, I retired my second year

at Colby. And you're like, what? Wait, what? Like, you, what about the pro part? Like, well, I would have been pro, but, you know, I had a thigh thing. Well, a lot of guys who got cut in training camp or never made a practice spot. I did it. I did an entire podcast once on every guy that claimed to be a pro athlete that had been on the Bachelor, Bachelorette. And out of like the 38, 35 of them were bullshit.

Yeah, you get like a workout. They're bringing it. You go to a rookie mini camp. Exactly. You stop on the second day. Those are my favorite athletes, the ones that. they go to their first day of rookie minicamp and immediately quit. And it's like, what is so different about doing a rookie minicamp in the NFL

compared to you just got done with four years of practicing every day in college? But you had a one day of rookie minicamp and you're like, fuck this, nope, can't do it anymore. Not going to play football. I imagine it's a massive wake-up call, though, for some guys that go, oh, my God, this is so much better than I thought. So I think there's part of that. I think there's some guys immediately day one that the team goes. Hey, you don't need to come back.

Like, you can keep the zip up, but don't come back tomorrow. But then that guy will say, I retired. Like, it was his choice. I'm walking away from the game. Yeah. Who was it? Was it, I think it was Andrew Hawkins that went to one practice for the Patriots. And he quit after playing for the Browns for like eight years.

Hawkins did. Torrey Holt did. That's right. Yeah, I remember Tori Holt because these are guys that have played in league for a long, long time. And they spend one day in New England. And they're like, like all of famers. Yeah.

Like people who are some of the best in the league. Like, Tori Hulk was just like, I'm too old for this shit. And Reggie Wayne was just like, that was the hardest day of football I've ever had in my life. I would not like to do that again. Yeah. We should probably-

I still can't believe Chad Ocho Cinco was on a Pat's team that was in the Super Bowl and you didn't even know. Yeah. The two weeks leading up to that, every sports media person, and was like, you know what the sharp bet is. He's been bad all year. But him scoring a touchdown, that's where you put your money.

That was the whole two weeks leading up to that game. And then I think he saw like three snaps. Yeah. And by the way, anybody that knew Brady, once he didn't trust you, you weren't getting the ball. Like that was, that was the most, it was one of the most fun things about Brady and, you know, getting to watch it every weekend for 20 years,

is that you could slowly figure out who he was over. And who he didn't, didn't trust. And once he tried a couple times of you and then it was like, all right, I'm not throwing at you anymore. And Ocho Cinco ended up being one of those guys. Yeah, he had a catch in the Super Bowl. Did he? Yeah, people forget that.

He had like a 14-yard catch. And he's wearing the jersey that says Ocho Cinco on the back, which is seeing a Patriots player wearing Ocho Cinco, it doesn't like, there's cognitive dissonance going on right now. I don't believe that I'm actually seeing this. But yeah, he just kind of forgot how to play football when he got to the Patriots. I guess in Cincinnati it was basically like, okay, you're the most talented player that we've had here in 30 years probably.

Just go out there and do whatever you want to do. It'll be fine. Nobody really cared because you're on the Bengals. But then once you go to a place where people actually, you have coaches that watch practice, then you just get buried in the shitter. That's what I kind of think about Odell with the Giants. That whole time, it was just their whole offense was getting Odell the ball. And maybe like the Bengals offense was getting out just thinking of the ball.

And then once he went to the Browns, it was kind of like you couldn't run that type of offense or it screwed up the whole system that they had going there. That's why once he got hurt, it was almost better for the Browns. If I remember correctly, the Bengals offense was just so rudimentary compared to the Patriots. And it was like every route is an option route in the Patriots, at least when Ocho was there. And he just ran the wrong option every single time. Like, Brady would throw it out left and Ocho would be breaking in and it would just be like, well, this is never going to work if you're literally never once on the same page. Yeah, Joey Galloway showed up there too.

And I remember it was just like, nope. And I think we even had them on. And it was just like, hey, this is so different. And that's why, you know, that's why Brady, I think at times were privately and, you know, it's become a little bit more public, we get annoyed about some of the personnel decisions. I mean, how could you not when you get that one year with everybody? and it's like this is what it's like if you really give me the weapons and it's like now instead we're just going to use your accuracy

and pay guys no money at the position and have them run little combo routes off the slot. I love that I started to interrupt but I just love that we have Ryan. I want to be interrupted. I love that we have Ryan on the show and we're going to be talking about the Theranos saga and Elizabeth Holmes' life and he can't help himself but find his way into a 30-minute discussion about Boston sports.

It's perfect. Well, you know, I was trying to play to the crowd here. you know. I love it. Maybe not. Yeah. You got good instincts. You always find what you came on. Yeah, I popped up. That's all that happened. I popped up. My power came back on. The Selving's got the lead immediately. And it's been great. This is exactly what I've been missing in my life. All right. Let's talk about Dernos. So let's talk about Elizabeth Holmes because I know that Ryan's really into her. They had a thing for a while off and on, hot and cold. One of those on again, off.

again flames but you've been interested in a while I think you put me on to Elizabeth Holmes initially back in like 2018 there's a podcast coming out it is the best and you and I share kind of an obsession with people who are frauds yes and I don't know I don't know why you think that you were so interested in in frauds but for me I think it's because I see it all the time in in my real world you see people that put their confidence before any actual substance behind them and you see people that i think in in the case of a lot of CEOs and a lot of business people that are trying to get money out there so many people grow up just wanting to be a CEO that's like their lifelong ambition they don't want to develop something

they don't they don't they aren't people that have an idea or a product that become successful because people enjoy using it or it helps somebody they just grow up being like i want to be the CEO of business incorporated and i want to i want to make moves i want to you know, I want to be the most badass business person in the world. And I think that's a backwards way of looking at things sometimes where just everything that the person does is because they want to get famous on the back end. Or they want to be like a renowned business person. I see that all the time.

So whenever I see somebody who's a fraud in the news that they've got, you know, a paper trail and just all these details behind their lives that you can use to add up and to show the person that they became, that's always fascinating to me to see exactly like how the human mind works in those cases yeah i agree with a lot of what you said i think there's something about us inherently that we'd rather see people fail and succeed i don't care what people say on instagram and all that shit um i think there's always this weird whether it's competitiveness whether you're just a shithead of a person um maybe you get to a point in your own life where you don't care but i think early on when you see somebody and you're like whoa is this

person real and they're doing all these amazing things um and then when it falls apart there's a human reaction there that enjoys it. I'm more interested in not, hey, pointing my finger and laughing at the person. I'm addicted to learning about the con because she is the all-time con artist. And, you know, whether it's me reading about WeWork where it's Adam Newman and what they were doing to juice their numbers, you know, in so many of these places, juice their numbers left and right, like just keep juice in the numbers, get investments, hope to be able to get to that point where if you actually are profitable at some point, it was all worth it, right?

But in this case, we're talking about medical diagnosis, all right? This is fucking insane what she did. She invented something that didn't exist and didn't work. It'd be like me saying I invented the time machine and you were like, where? And I show you a picture of one that I drew. All right? She then became obsessed with Steve Jobs, the point where she started dressing like him.

She changed her voice to be deeper. You've got to see that video of her with Kramer, where it was the first time the Wall Street Journal was like, like, hey, this whole company may be full of shit because their technology doesn't make any sense and nobody's signing off this and the FBAs only approved one blood test for whatever technology that they're running.

And then she comes out with Kramer and she's like, first they call you crazy and then you change the world. And her voice, by the way, is back to normal now. So I don't know how that happened. There were times when she would go out and get drunk, she'd go to like a happy hour with some of her coworkers.

And be gone, right. And then the voice would slip back when she had like three cocktails in her. And the next day she'd wake up. And now she's saying like, no, this, even her family members are like, you know, this runs in her family. Her grandmother had a very deep voice. So it's, uh, it's right. So everybody's covering for it.

But I mean, think about this. So they finally get this device working, but it isn't working. Nobody knows that it's not working. What they're basically doing is all the blood tests on other stuff that had already been around. So their invention was, hey, we have this blood testing system that's unobtrusive. But yet we're just running it out the back. It'd be like me opening up a burger place. And when you came up to the delivery window,

I ran across the street to get burgers, but I brought you hot dogs and said I was killing it, even though I wasn't even cooking the hot dogs in the first place. They misdiagnosed a woman. They said she had HIV. There's another guy who had this blood test thing that he needed to do for whether or not to stay on these blood thinners and the results from the Theranos test,

which again weren't even being run on the invention that she supposedly came up with, said that he could get off the blood thinner and then it found out later like he definitely wasn't supposed to be off of it and had to have some sort of procedure. There was another woman that had this like awful immune deficiency diagnosis.

She changed your entire fucking diet and started taking meds for it and then got tested again. There's somebody else who thought they had cancer so then they canceled a trip overseas that they've been planning forever. And then the doctor's second opinion were like, you definitely don't have cancer.

So like for all the people that are out there because I've read some of the stuff about like, why is she the target? Why is she the target? It then becomes a gender thing. That's not what this is. It's one thing to con people out of hundreds of millions of dollars and to fake it till you make it approach. It's another thing in the process to have never actually come through on what it is that you've claimed that you've invented and brought your company to a $9 billion valuation, which was funny because she went from like being worth $5.4 billion to zero in Forbes. They like made a point of being like, here's what she was worth. Here's what she's worth now. And the company still

stayed at $800 million, which I thought was pretty interesting from $9 billion. But the whole time this is happening, she knows the product doesn't work. She knows the results are fucked. She knows she's using old technology hidden behind everything else to actually get some blood tests out there. And throughout the entire time, she was okay with it because she got to play the role of somebody she admired. So, you know, look, the sentencing is probably going to end up being light. She found guilty on some of the accounts, not all accounts. There's either of theory out there before the actual case was delayed because of COVID that she got pregnant

hoping to be pregnant during the final like moments of the trial unbelievable change your whole dynamic and then of course she also blamed her boyfriend Sonny who she had met when she was like 16 overseas at some nerd camp and then he said text messages are she said that Sonny was was being like borderline abusive

to her that they were considering using the strategy of saying that the CEO at the company was... They hit it at it, right, was... Being controlling. Yeah, they didn't go full bore

because... Abusive. Because if you say that you're under control of this person, you're also essentially admitting that all the accusations are true and accurate. But you're saying,

they are true, but it's not my fault. It's this guy's fault for making me do it. So they didn't want to go like full bore on that. We should do... Oh, by the way,

you brought up the person that had the HIV test that came back positive but then that was fake a spin zone on that that's actually like that person probably had the best meal of their life they probably went out there and had the most unprotected sex of their life right after they found out that they didn't have AIDS like imagine how good you feel that's like that's seen in fight club when uh when they robbed the guy they stick the guy up in the back at the convenience store learn his name his address and then brad pitt's like that guy's the next meal that he

has is going to taste as good as any meal he'll ever have in his life you get a short-term rush like that must be such relief finding out that you actually don't have it are you saying we should go around and hit people with that just like to give them that rush no i'm saying that person they stumbled their way into maybe the best news of their life that they'll ever right i got imagine those those down times weren't great though prior to probably probably yeah there's a reason why you have to like go in person to find out those results yeah yeah um but we should do a quick reset here on who she is, what the company did because there might be one or two people that aren't super familiar with her. But she was a student at Stanford University. She dropped out there

and she was regarded as being one of the most brilliant students. She made her, she made a lot of connections while she was on campus there with faculty, with alumni and just with people that are known of being like Stanford University supporters. And she was regarded. as being like the next up-and-coming mind in Silicon Valley as early as the age of 19. Then she started this company called Theranos, and her idea that we were discussing earlier is she had an idea to make a small machine about the size, what would you say, of like a microwave? Yeah, it was the machine they had at the end looked like an air fryer. Yeah, I would say an air fryer size.

Air fryer. Okay, the size of an air fryer. And if you don't have an air fryer, that's like the size of microwave, right? Nah, it's a little... It's a little... It's a toaster oven. Toaster oven. Yeah.

Ryan, do you have an air fryer? No. You've changed your life. Can I get with the times, bro. I love that we're debating the size difference of the microwave of the air friar. No, wait. Is the volume that? Can we get any volume cubic inches?

I'm trying to think of what... Because the thing is the... I remember the device was tall. And the coffee maker that I have is one of those side by side where you can do the cake up and you can fill up the craft with coffee. But it's got a bigger tank than the... last one that I had that's like the upgrade that they made you can now put up to I think 15 or 16 cups worth of coffee and I think it's about the size of that

coffee maker all right so you know small appliance in the kitchen small appliance in the kitchen so her idea was you you can get a drop of blood from somebody right run it through this machine one drop of blood run it through this machine and within an hour it will give you complete diagnosis on what you 100 different tests 200 tests like your vitamins your platelet counts your liver levels your triglycerides can test you for HIV they'll tell you what kind of cancer you might have or if you don't have cancer what else was in there yeah basically it almost ran every blood test that you'd want to know like because the

the idea was that people would do this every day and have perfect monitor of their health so that you know cancers that if you catch early it would be caught and you extend everyone's lives by so much by making an affordable way for people to like figure out when they're sick as soon as possible. And it also had like enormous military implications, too, where they would send it to the battlefield and soldiers could check their blood levels and see if they were developing an infection,

things like that. That was something after I watched a documentary I learned. I didn't realize there was military and government control at play. Yeah. Yeah. That money, I mean, if you can get government contracts, that's insane. Kissinger was on the board. Yeah.

He had an all-time quote when they were asking him about, whether or not he thought that this company was fraudulent if he had any misgivings about dealing with her he said he said my only problem was uh she had four hour long board meetings which are basically human rights violations kissinger said that yeah the carpet bomber kissing the guy that like he's he's famous for just bombing civilians that's that's he's the goat of of bombing southeast asian villages and his only quote that he could give was calling a four-hour board meeting, a human rights violation. Also, her board, being a women founder,

her board was a thousand-year-old white men, all of us. Well, she's smart. Or she's all of her dad's. So she's very smart because she definitely played up that whole, like, she has the ability to control older, horny guys. Yeah. And that they were all, like, in government positions. Like, none of them had, like, they said this in the documentary,

none of them had any medical experience. All of them were, like, Secretary of States. I've got a pretty big blind spot in my corporate knowledge because I hear people talk about boards of directors all the time. And I know that it's sometimes a very convenient thing for somebody to say, like, I got to go check with my board. I got to run this by my board. I got to have a board meeting tonight. I don't really understand. Maybe I do understand, but I don't think I understand what boards do.

As far as I can tell, if you get a board of directors for your company, you're essentially paying them. whether it be in stock or a salary, you're paying people to advertise for your company by saying, yeah, I serve on their board. And then those people that are on your board are trying to make money in stock through your company doing well in the long term. So they're going to go out there and be evangelist for your company. Is that? Am I way off on that? It also gives legitimacy to the product.

And for large institutional investors who want to invest, are like, oh, Kissinger's on the board. right so you're paying people to give legitimacy to your company it's a stamp of a proof by just hanging out that's what a board does right and then they vote on certain things yeah so yeah that's pretty much i mean look what you're doing is you're peddling an influence and then you're you're basically you know um compensating for that and the weird thing about when you look at these board seats is they think of somebody legitimate there in the beginning they had clinton's like somebody that was a clinton's cabinet was like one of the first people she linked up with and then he tells somebody. So now all of a sudden you've got like real front facing people

on this. Then the word starts getting around and all of a sudden people are just investing because they don't want to feel like they're left out. They're like, hey, what's it going to do? Well, like, oh, this is the technology. You don't know if it works or not. You don't know any better. The funny thing is when they kept getting in more and more trouble. Like at one point, I think a few different times, but there were some different stuff where like Arizona's like, get these machines out of here. California is like, by the way, you're only clear to do one test, one kind of test and you're doing all these other tests you have 10 days to figure this out and then they were investigated and all their shit was wrong and all this stuff so she would just be like all right new

board yeah and so a guy would roll in like there was a guy that was the CEO of Wells Fargo who then later on was just like the new board guy and all the old board guys are like look at this sucker they got in and the new board guy is no idea and they still have their stock options actually likely I'm I have an idea here for any aspiring startups out there who need someone on their board, I'm so down to be a part of someone's board. Yeah, that's, that company's going to take off. So companies like, I don't know, like, that create, like, I don't know, just companies. If you have, if you are a company listening to this podcast, I feel like it would have been a great board member of like raging mammoth,

the tool company to crack open beers for shotgunning. Okay. So, like, companies like that, we should get a board just for this podcast. So we should hire people to be on. the board. No, no, we want to be on other people's No, that sounds like... We want to use our influence. That's way too much word. No, but then, I mean, I would serve on some... I don't want to serve on anybody's board. I want to have a board of directors, so to just, like, promote our own company. But, so

she, so all the while, she had this all the while, all the while, all the while she had this machine, which was about the size of, like, a mini-fridge, like a dorm, a small dorm mini-fridge, or a soda stream. It was about the size of a soda

stream. And, uh, she claimed that it ran all these tests and she's getting all these people on her board and it's being sold to to Walgreens right it was it was placed in Walgreens in several states just Arizona just Arizona and then there was something in California that they had but I think it was their tests on site so I think that was a little different but the machine didn't do anything they had a machine and they had a theory of what this machine should do but the machine never actually did that right during some of their

presentations on it they would take people's blood and then take a very small amount then put it in the machine and then be like it's taking the results right now and then everyone would be like oh that's so cool and then everyone would leave they would then take the

small amount of blood and then try to put that blood through a regular test which would require way more blood and that's why there was so many bad results because they would take like not enough blood to do regular tests that required way more blood. And the machines were breaking, too. They were breaking inside of themselves.

Well, they were opening the machines and taking the sample back out after they just put it in. Yeah, the whole thing was a mess. And basically, it was posters of cool things. It was an invention where there was a poster, and she wore her mocks and she had a deep voice and she put on the lipstick, and she tried to be female Steve Jobs.

And the funny thing is, too, is that they try to rebrand themselves is the mini there and else. It was like, you just did basically, what do they do? Oh, okay, iPod shuffle, we'll do that. And it's a good idea. If you can figure out a way to make it work, I'm sure that there's some actual money in it for you.

Apparently, apparently this idea of miniaturizing common functions is huge in Silicon Valley. Like this idea that, like, for example, computers used to be the size of this room, but now we have computers the size of iPhones. So that whole idea that everything can be miniaturized, has really like caught on there so this idea that is like they've been trying to do this in different sectors and it's sort of common practice to you know even though the technology's not there gather the funds and just fake it till you make it which we talked about but in this case

because it wasn't something as harmless as you know like an uh an app an entertainment device that would be smaller or you know miniaturization of like other technologies tiny speak out with with health care. It was like the first time Yeah. Formats. Air pods. The tiny, yeah, the smallest Bluetooth speaker possible that still fucking rocks.

That's what she should have developed because you can you can lie to people and be like, yeah, this miniature Bluetooth speaker, it's actually got the highest sound quality of any speaker on the market. As long as it's loud, people are going to listen to and be like, yeah, this actually rocks. This is, this is legit.

This is a good product. But instead, she decided to get into health care. which brings up all other issues. I like the fact that there's so many good details about her and just how she operated. It seemed like they've got to be made up, but they're not. They're all real. She had a dog named Balto.

That was a husky. And one day she just decided to start calling it a wolf. And so people would ask her, like, what breed of dog is it? And she'd be like, oh, he's 100% wolf. That's like some of those people who are able to just lie to their selves. it's like a type of sociopathic like psychopathy where they can literally just lie to themselves

and believe it and just lie about their surroundings and be like yeah that husky's a wolf like she 100% believed it like she was just gaslighting herself I think she believed 100% of everything she said I don't think she ever lied intentionally

maybe like some of the non-pervention no I think she was so insane that she believed all that stuff she had to lie because there were her machine didn't work and she knew that the machine didn't work but I think and she had to tell her engineers she had to continuously lie to her engineering team to let them know like what's going on she had to lie to the marketing team to tell them how far along the new engineering upgrades were

she was lying like all the time so maybe maybe that but like in terms of the the overall like goals of the company like I think she believed that that was always going to work like that it was always going to pan out. I think that she's not intentionally lying in that she's a pathological liar and that's just what she does all the time. I think that's fair to say, but I don't know, then you can you even say like somebody's

intentions if they're a pathological liar? It seems like they just lie. It's just what they do. I think a lot of it was in order to maintain her lifestyle of, you know, talking on panels, TED Talks with Bill Clinton and Bezos and just being around those Silicon Valley, like the lifestyle

and like, you know, because that's really why someone who's this gear towards, if you look at her early life, you can tell that there was a lot of pressure put on her, and she was super hyped up by her father who was the vice president of Enron. So it was a very, like, well-to-do

family that, like, basically you could tell that she was pushed into, yeah, he got that company went bankrupt on accounting fraud. I was to say, weren't they frauds too? They're the ultimate example of corporate fraud. I mean, they say that like, you know, it

can be if you're like fraud like if your father's a fraud you're more likely to be a fraud yourself because you pick up they say that it's hereditary it's not hereditary but they pick up it's actually it has that some genome mapping what do we talk about it's that's the clutch gene no it's it's what's the word um uh no i saw it in a psych paper it was like uh so not sociopaths but um the alcoholics not kind of because the lying but you're fraud No, but the whole, the pattern of lying is picked up by children. So, like, if they see their parents make quick lies to, like, strangers, or they pick up that ability in that sort of compulsive lying that they then go out to do. And the word is, what am I thinking of?

Narcissists. I can't wait. Narcists. A lot of people with narcissistic parents actually end up as narcissists. That's got to be tough if you have a narcissist for a parent because you probably and you become a narcissist yourself. You just spend all your time competing against the narcissist parent and then your relation, you probably just want to kill each other. That or just having a parent that still thinks you're wrong and you're the kid. Yeah.

And the narcissist is like, sorry, today's my day. Yeah. You're like, I'm a kid though. I'm like five. Can we play catch? Be like, well, that's not important to me because it's not about me. That would be the worst. Yeah.

Yeah, narcissistic personality disorder is an inheritable psychological condition. Research evidence indicates that a person is more likely to develop NPD if said personality disorder occurs in the medical history of his or her family. So one thing that fascinates me about cases like this is if somebody's committing fraud on such a massive widespread level, finding out about all the lies that they were telling, all the different webs that they were weaving at once, there's something that I love hearing I love putting myself in the shoes of that person

and thinking how stressful their life must have been trying to lie to all these people at once and keep all their stories straight for some reason to me it's just like I kind of get a kick out of imagining somebody struggling to maintain all those different lies

it's like it's just the tension that they have to walk around with every day is interesting to me but it's the thing is they never feel it because they're able to lie to themselves as well. That's what's the most fucked up part. They're like, they lie like, oh, I've told so many lies. And then they're like, no, I've, like, no, I'm fine.

Like, it's all truths. So you think she actually believes that Balto was a wolf? It's a fucked up thing that we will never understand. Yeah. If you're not, if you're not the type person who can just lie to yourselves, like, like, like people who cheat are serial cheaters and who are able to just like act like everything's fine. It's like they're able to lie to themselves. Do you think that she, um, there's,

there reports that she never blinked. Is that something that she could have also been heavily medicated? No, she didn't. Yeah, no, she never blink. She had a journal for her day where it was like, always listen, never talk, be decisive, know the outcome before you enter the room, which is just such bullshit. It's like, you know, these dumb lifestyle things of like, know the outcome before you enter the room.

You're like, I don't know that. How could you sit there and pretend that you're so a step ahead of everybody that are going to be able to do this? She did bulletproof glass along her office in Palo Alto. That's paranoia. I started paying attention to the blinking thing once they said that in the documentary, and she will blink, but like then once she gets up in front of people or in an interview or something, she stops.

Like she was walking into a, it was like when the FDA approved like one of their tests out of 200 or whatever, and they were throwing a party, like they'd just, you know, gotten a billion dollars. And she's blinking on the way like when she's walking to address the people and then she gets up there and she opens her eyes. wide as can be in stops. Like, it was like a conscious thing she did. I wonder what the psychology of that is.

If you have a conversation with someone, you intentionally don't blink and you stare into their soul, does that, does she think that that gives her control over the conversation? Does she think that that she must express his power? I mean, she must have been killer at the stair game. And Mike Tomlin would love her. Who blinks first? Yeah, cut off your eyes. Yeah.

No, but what is that? If you're just like, if you're having a conversation, somebody doesn't blink. Like, what is the effect that that would have on you? It'd freak me out. Yeah, it's off-putting. Are you going to research that right now, Billy? Because I know that Jim, Jim used to look at Dwight's forehead. That's right.

Yeah. And he'd like start trying to wipe it off. What are you staring at? It says on here that psychopaths tend to blink less than the average person. While it's a common occurrence that psychopaths blink less, there's no, like, phenomenon about it. It's just that they have recognized that psychopaths tend to blink less. You know what to really fuck you up is if you start thinking about how often you blink. And then you,

it'll fuck up your whole blinking pattern. Like now I'm thinking about it. I can't blink normally. That breathing, that does the same thing. I feel like if you think about breathing, then you're like, yeah.

Yeah. I'm blinking like a fucking psycho right now over here because I'm thinking like, they say, wait, now I'm blinking too much. I'm trying to look. They say that cocaine may make you blink less, but.

Adderall actually... She was definitely on cocaine, right? No, I don't think she... No, no, because... No, no, because... No, no, no, because... No one would do it or give her any. She's like a tool.

Yeah. Yeah, she's like this. She definitely gave off strong cop vibes. I was actually thinking about this over the weekend because I was watching the new season of Dexter where his girlfriend's a cop. And if you're a cop and, like, your friends are having a party, and maybe one of their friends is having a party,

you just can't... You can't go to parties, really, without, like, pre-announcing, hey, is it okay? if I come over, I am a police officer. And then it's awkward for everybody. You have to really limit your social life if you're just going to be... Well, it's actually... No, I have a friend who's a police officer.

It's actually chill as fuck to have a cop of the party because if the cops show up to the party, the cop talks to the cop and just like, Bill, you're going to the worst parties if you think it's chill to have a police officer there. I also love this hypothetical PFTs, this hypothetical world he's built where like cops are always following the law. Yeah.

I know. What are you talking about? I know. How many cops do you know? I know a few cops, but I also know how it can be awkward for people that are at the party if there's a list of things going on to that party

and someone shows up that they don't really know. So I'm not saying like if you're a friend's a cop and he's hanging out with you, I'm saying if you're a police officer and you're hanging out with your three buddies, right? And one of your buddies has a friend from their work that's having a big get-together. You're not, like, it'd be weird.

for you to go over to this group of people that you don't know if they found out that you were a cop at the party i'm just saying the whole dynamics got to be weird i think a lot of cops that are going to put themselves in a situation of the party are kind of down and they're fine you know what they say billy too right when the cops show up and there's another cop there that's that's off duty what i'm on the job so when my buddy who was a cop he was a boston cop and then you know we'd be on the vineyard and uh oh he retains another cover no do you get pulled over and the cops like you know coming up to the side of the car he's like what do you guys up to my buddy's because i'm on the job and he's like all right i'm turn right around now don't for the kids listening right now

unless you have a bad i'm not i'm not telling you to use it because you got and my buddy looked like a cop i was gonna say billy could use it yeah for sure uh no you'd you'd be too you're too in it I don't see you really think so I don't know I mean it looks like at least a state troopers He looks like a cop No doubt

I just I don't know if your delivery If I would trust you enough And that's for sure Let me tell you When I get a fresh buzz cut And it's like all my lines are crisp And I'm you know I think I can rock

No way it's not the look You just be like It's not the look My Billy would be like Lokey I'm on the job And the cop would be like All right

You're coming to jail Big T could get away with it I think yeah for sure you look like a cop yeah but I think it's kind of the same thing as Billy though I don't know how well I think now your voice I think I got a cop voice to be like okay

hey I don't know I take that as a high I regret doing this because now there's like a kid's going to get arrested this week listening to this going I'm on the job like a question I'm on the job don't do it and then we'll blog it and it's a

self-sustainer Well, usually you whip out your badge, say, I'm on the job. That's probably the best. I'm going to give a shot. I'm going to try the, I'm on the job, see if I can get away with it. You look the least like a cop. Thank you. He looks like an undercover cop.

I did get offered weed on the street on Friday. I was like still got it. It felt like a badass. I was walking out of the Book of Mormon. Great play, by the way. Go check it out if you haven't seen it. You hadn't seen it yet? Hadn't seen it yet.

Had a fantastic time. It's great. It's actually like one of my first times going, I went to a Broadway play one time before. It's my second time going. Awesome time. What a great play. Like, laughed out loud the entire time.

But I was walking outside the theater. And this guy just comes up to me. He was like, you want weed? And I was like, nope. But thank you very much, sir. Like, I felt so good about myself. That actually happened to me last night when we was walking out of the, after we recorded at like 3 a.m.

They tried to just sell you. We know, a car pulled up to the curb real fast. And I was just like a little star out because I was like, what the hell's going on? And this guy popped his head out the window. It goes, you smoke? I'm like, no, bro. It was literally right the street over.

This is concerning. This sounds like Billy almost got abducted. I kind of did. It seemed a little weird. It's like when a guy in a van pulls up outside your elementary school and he's got candy. Yeah, I'm just saying that actually happened. Billy, but it's weird that you said that. It survived a kidnapping attempt.

No, I don't think they tried to kidnap me. I remember, I didn't hang out in the city very much until later. Iran when I was in Connecticut, I mean, I'd gone a few times because the classic Boston thing would you would hate New York City and you would never been. And then you go to visit your buddies after college and you're like, ah, this place is kind of awesome, actually. And so I remember one time I was doing it is the only time I ever traveled with the Celtics and I was staying the Ritz, I think on Central Park. And I think there was an old whiskey park there. Do you remember those? I don't know. You guys are all probably too young. I don't remember whiskey park.

Yeah, Whiskey Park was the name of a bar. There actually I think there was one in Boston, too. I think it was Cindy Crawford's husband, this guy who, like, was behind all of it. Again, old story, almost might want to stop and abort on the whole thing. But as I was walking, I went over there for a little bit. Guys made fun of me. I remember them being like, what are you into? What's your bag?

And I was like, oh, I'm calling the Celtics game. I'm filling. They're like, you're the filling. Like, ah, you must be broke. Like, it was straight out of a movie. It was hilarious. Like, just guys doing Coke being so excited about their lives and like, and where it's this cool New York City club.

Yeah. And I was like, no, I'm fine. I was like, I actually have to work tomorrow. I just wanted to come over and see what this is about. And then on the way out, I was walking back to the hotel and an SUV of women just pulls up. And they're like, get in. And I was like, there's no way this is a good idea. Right.

Like, I'm not that good looking. Like, some days I have the right shirt on, you know, you never know. So what happened after you got in? You just got done to the shoulders and traps. And so, you know that collar is extra high on your neck? Right, right. Right. So, you know, I woke up in, I think Teaneck is the town. No, I'm just kidding. I didn't get it. Yeah, no, you're asking. You're smart. It's scary. It was so fucking scary. And by the way, I was, like, really excited to call the Celtics game. So I wasn't going to get in the car.

Yeah, you're very smart. We had a guest on the show a couple weeks ago when we were talking about the Maxwell trial. And we came to the conclusion that if you're ever just randomly approached by a very, very attractive woman, run away. it is yeah something something is a miss yeah most of us are not built that way yeah and if you just randomly if you are built that way you know that you're built that way and you've dealt with that situation before but if like a stone cold 10 walks up to you and she's like hey what's your name it's like fed you're a federal agent get away from me jay that was uh that was an unbelievable end of that book i don't know if you guys caught on to any of that stuff michael wolf who's done all the profiles, he did the Rupert Murdoch bio. He has the Steve Bannon transcript with Epstein right before Epstein basically goes to jail.

And Bannon is trying to talk him through how he would do, you know, his big sit down. Because they're trying to get Epstein in front of a camera, tell his side of the story. Like, look, you're just, you've had, you've made mistakes, but you're not a bad guy or something. Like it was unbelievable why they were trying to sell it. and the entire transcript of the conversation is in the last Michael Wolf book called Too Famous and it's fucking, I had them on because I was like reading it, getting done with it. I'm like, this is unbelievable because you've got the guys are just sitting around going like, well, how bad is this?

And it's like, it's bad. It's really bad, man. And then a couple other guys were like Epstein's dudes who are like, well, you know, maybe a little, you know, maybe go out there like, I don't know, 60 minutes. Like that'd be neutral, right? And the guys, band's like, no, 60 minutes is going to try to destroy you. do you not understand that and he's like well you know maybe the right the right angle the right lighting and then the whole transcript is there where bannon's running him through a fake interview

it's incredible yeah it's worth it just for that i bought that book i started reading it last oh you did yeah you you told me about it so i went out i got it and i read the first couple chapters about jared about jared kushner okay so what do you think so far so far it's nothing like really shocking but the way that it's just always interesting to see people at the highest levels of power in the world, still have the same, like, self-consciousness about them, still have the same interpersonal dynamics as a group of middle school children, trying to navigate who's the most popular kid in the school. And one person who might doubt them so, who might lack a little bit of that confidence, but still sees an opportunity of them to advance in the world, finds the one

thing that they can control. In this case, it would be like access to President Trump. And so Kushner was like, even though nobody respected him, he developed a relationship with Trump that he was the person you had to go to to get to Trump. And so then he developed power around the White House. He was able to move people around, get people promoted, get people fired just based on how he was able to like keep every, keep all his other friends away from being friends with his best friend. Yeah, it's amazing because no one has respect for him while they all had tremendous respect for him. Yeah. And he basically became the most important guy. I think close to Trump, not peak, but his stability to be able to hang around.

And even though he looks like some dork who's going to get bullied, which isn't exactly a huge departure from how he looks, he's also pulling strings on all sorts of things, thinking about his play long term. And he never really seemed to piss people off, which, you know, again, that seems like a generalization. But from the book, it was like he kind of knew which moves to play all the time and kind of hanging in the shadows, but yet he was still the super important guy.

When you get to the Giuliani chapter, that's when the book is totally worth it. Because the Giuliani stuff is just, you're sitting there being like, wait, what? Do you want his phone number? Do you want Rudy Julianne's phone number? I can give it to you. Have you guys had them on? We have not. I've tried calling him on the show a couple times, but he, I used to text with him back and

forth a little bit until he blocked my number, but I can give it to you. He usually responds to texts. I'm serious. I'll give it to you. He doesn't care. He's drunk all the time. I know. That's what they say in the book.

I had no idea. Like all these times they've going on seeing. and people in the book are like he was just shit-faced all the time yeah no he's like living the life um yeah Kushner is that that chapter is eye-opening um it just it there's a little bit of me that kind of understands the whole obsession with gossip you know how people read the the trashy magazines in the airports about like who's dating who for me that's like reading a non-fiction non-fiction book about a presidency about a white house that's my equivalent where i get the same thrill out of it it's just different subject matter.

Wait, so quick question. Bannon and Epstein were colluding at some point? They're talking? Yeah, look, I've heard a few different books, and I'll tell you, I know he's not super popular character for a bunch of different reasons, but Bannon is a very impressive guy intellectually. And I know that, you know, whatever. We're going to take that as a quote card, by the way.

Steve Banner is a very impressive guy who actually Ryan for himself. Yeah, well, I guess maybe it was the party. that he was keeping, too, because like all of these different times I read about Bannon in different situations, I'd be like, actually Bannon comes off as the most impressive guy out of this group. And basically, Epstein, all the charges were out. He was back in New York City. He's hanging out with a lawyer and almost no other lawyers would even want to represent him. There was a PR firm that he was going to charge him $3 million a month. And I think he was willing to do it. And then they may have backed out. And then there was some high political figure from the Middle East that

was just hanging out of his place, too. And then Bannon got on the phone with them. And they were just trying to strategize on how to how to try to figure out like basically their position was if it wasn't for the me too movement this wouldn't be that big of a deal again they're delusional with a lot of the stuff where banon is constantly being the one sane person in the room going what are you guys fucking talking about like this that's not like what are you talking about he's like if there's any way we can do it we have to do it this way and um you know then there's a big thing too where it's kind of like hey would you got trump help out what do you do anything and I think I forget what Bannon says at that point but I'm just look if you read the

end of the book you'll understand everything I'm saying because it's just word for word what they actually said and Wolf I think is one of like a couple people that have ever seen or had the access to these mockup videos yeah Bannon everything that I've read about the guy is he is laser focused and he is intelligent he's got some very very out there ideas and he's like you know kind of a psycho in certain ways yeah I'm not talking about his idea I'm just saying that it's when you compare it to the other guys yeah i don't know you never know with the podcast every now but when you compare them to the other guys you can't help you know like playing out all the characters interacting with each other you're kind of left with like all right well i get with

this guy was successful yeah no i've heard that about the guy too and so man who what would be your media play if you were a PR department that was hired by Jeffrey Epstein and they're like hey who who should he be talking to what can't what what show should we get on the only thing that jumps to mind is Tony Dungey. If you get Tony Dungey to sit down with Tony Dungey loves rehabilitating people. It's like his pet project that he has. If you fuck up, go live in Tony Dungey's cabin for a month and then you'll come back and you'll be like, okay, he's a changed person. Like, just do Bible study with him for a little bit. Maybe, I don't know, the sports world, Tom Rinaldi. Just cry with Tom for a little bit. Get him on the van with

with Gruden. Yeah. Yeah. Hot ones. You get him doing hot ones. There's really no good strategy. No. That was kind of the conclusion that they came to. They were talking about how it would take months, if not a year, to coach him to be ready for every angle. You know? And so I was, I don't know.

Look, when you get to the end of the book, I'll expect a text from you where you go. Yeah. Wow. Okay. That was insane. I'll let you know. We should drop back to Elizabeth Holmes real quick because there were some other fun details about her.

Yeah, fire away. So she had a security detail, much like Steve Jobs used to have his car that he used to change his lease every month so he never had to have a license plate put on it. She had a similar situation where she would be driven around by her security team that would replace her car every month

so she didn't have to have a license plate. And she made them call her Eagle One. That was her code name when they were talking on like their earpieces and walkie talkies about her and then wasn't sunny eagle too yeah her her lover slash c o co the company slash mentor sunny was he was eagle too and billy i want to get to some of these text messages that you alluded to because this is it's the probably the biggest deterrent against committing massive fraud is knowing that your text messages might be read in open court like all of your

text messages you can say like okay you might go to jail for 20 years you might have all this stuff happened to you yeah you shouldn't you shouldn't commit fraud on people's medical history but ultimately the the looming threat of having all your sext read out in a court of law and then passed out for everybody to see that's really the worst punishment so tell me about about their romantic text messages they had well uh let me pull those up right now they're brutal they called each other tiger and to me when i was reading some of them i just i was thinking about that time that you remember when Russell Wilson wrote an open letter to Ciara for, I think it was Valentine's Day or their anniversary, and he was describing how beautiful she was. It turns out that he had just Googled description of a

beautiful woman and then copied and pasted the entire paragraph and then tweeted that out saying he wrote it for her. That's what this reminds me of when they're talking about each other. Little side note, one of my favorite little caveats of the whole Theranos discussion is she hired her little brother who then hired all of his like frat brothers and there was this whole little section of the company called the Therana Bros who were just literally doing nothing but like they were supposed to be like networking and doing some sort of like but they were just partying the whole time on the

investment investment dive and the Therana Bros, that's like the most ridiculous well no it sounds like the most ridiculous like situation ever and you're not culpable because you didn't know any better Are you just a Therano bro? I'm a Therano bro. Like, I think I had a, I had money, had a company card. I was just going out San Francisco, across the country, across the world. Did you have, do you have the sex?

Yes. Here's someone. That's an amazing question. The weird thing is, is they talk in short text speech, but not like current text speech. Like, not like what the kids use. Well, he's old, remember. Yeah. He's super old.

He's like, he was 20 years. older than her? Yeah. Yeah. When your family is here, I feel lonely because spelled BCZ. You spend you, the letter, spend a total of 10 seconds with me a day. Balwani message homes in November 23, 2013. I tried so hard to engage you. You had no interest. Holmes said later that day. Don't try to engage with me next time. Seems like it won't work. Balwani responded. My new life as of this night in forevermore, total confidence in myself is best business person of the year focus details excellent i don't give what anyone thinks engage employees and meetings by stories and making it about them homes texted balwani it's just they text each other weird shit all the time i'm turned on but these are just

some of the warm up ones and we're getting to some really weird ones later this so uh this one's from homes to balwani i'm sorry i wasn't stronger for you this morning that is my responsibility and my roll i will never let that happen again uh i am strong enough for me and you and then some i don't need you to be strong for me balwani replied homesend response i had the privilege of being able to calm you as a mother energy and later on my job is to love you when you're stressed um yeah who knows what so there were some ones that are like you are my earth yeah we forget you are mother rain. This was more like Balwani would always be super critical of her in text messages. You are speaking with everyone in your giddy voice. Excessive use of awesome. Balwani told Holmes in April 2015. Thank you. Thank you.

Holmes sent back. I have molded you, Balwani said. You are rambling now. Let's stay focused. I'm sorry for last night. I will get better. Balwani texted Holmes in August 2015. I love you. Holmes responded, okay, entire flight I was feeling really bad and sad for last night. I'm really sorry. Balwani replied. followed by a second text. I need to change my life and I will. Yeah, so that was some of the weird texts that they used to say that Balwani was emotionally abusive.

But let's get to these. Maybe just a bad hang. You found guilty, you know? Yeah, chicks always love it when you say like, hey, you should stop talking like that. That's one of their faith. That's a big turn off. And she's like, you know what I'll do

is I'll defraud people out of $9 billion. Yeah, I mean, that's a natural reaction. you should do a podcast round where it's just evaluating would this person be a good hang that's actually your entire show yeah yeah I'd be like I don't think of a hang with this guy

yeah because there was like like Russell Wilson to me would have been a bad hang I was early on this early position I think he's a terrific quarterback yeah terrific quarterback love them defend him all the time would have wanted to be MVP one year but it was very clear to me the way he talked

I was like nope no way summer house because we do that every now and then he'd be like Who would you rather have as a summer house roommate? You know? All right. What about Jimmy G? Do you think he'd be a good summer house guy? I don't think he would.

I think he'd be fine. I think he'd be fine. I think he's too good looking. So here's the really cringy ones. Are we reading all of them, Billy? Yeah, but this one's the good. This was the other ones were supposed to, the only ones that were released were the ones to try to show him as controlling.

Billy was trying to establish like an entire narrative around this, right? And if you give him a second, you are, you are breeze in the desert. You are breeze in desert for me, uh, my water and my ocean. Madly in love with you and your strength feel like the luckiest person in the world because I have you. The certain outcroppings of the one they released, because these are the only ones released to prove that he was controlling. So the really good, like juicy ones, we probably haven't even seen yet. And we only got the, you are the breeze in the desert for me. like you are my son and my moon, that sort of stuff.

That would creep me out if I got that text message from somebody. Meant to be only together, Tiger. I'll tell you about a terrible, a terrible friend phase is when texting first started blowing up, guys started sending dirty text to each other and then always followed immediately, like, oh, that was for somebody else. But they did it. We would do it to like our college roommates and stuff on purpose.

And it was just the worst because you would read it and it would be your buddy sending you something. And even though you knew it was a joke, you just hated the whole process of it. And then it was just auto. Everybody would be like, oh, sorry, this was somebody else. It was that and then like sending pictures of your shit. That was, that's

what guys. Really good excited. Guys got excited. There was a, there were people that said we're done with this, this will disband the entire crew. This there's a rule being, if you guys want a side shit thread, you guys go ahead and do it. But there are too many people that are there against this movement.

so we were able to shut that one down. I had a side shit thread too, but it was, yeah, for a while, it was either anytime you develop a new form of communication that a lot of guys are using, they're going to use it to either imply heavily that they just got laid or send their buddies a picture of shit. Those are the first two things. I still get very strong urge just to send pictures of my shit to be. I'm going to start doing it to you, PFT.

Don't. Please don't. Well, yeah, you guys are chaps? Chaps loves that stuff. That's true. Yeah, but that takes all the fun out of it. Like, I don't want you to enjoy it. You know he's getting off on it? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, Snapchat was, that was started so guys could send pictures of their shit to each other, right? There's a new phenomenon with Snapchat that's probably, like, guys in the friend group, like, sending their buddies, like, they're, like, like, like, like, like, looking super douchey. Like, there's different Snapchat's you'd send a girl than when you send your buddies. What do you send to your friends? like you sent like funny snapchats but like when you send like a girl Snapchat it's like you like with a douchey face okay and so you're sending girl snapchats to your eyes as a joke yeah no but it's usually an accident and you're like dude what it's like it's hard to explain all right I'm a girl what are you sending to me yeah what would you send to me bill don't answer that question

Good point. Yeah, there you go, Big T, looking out for them. Don't incriminate yourself. Thank you. No, but people, there's people out there who get what I'm saying. Do you think that she went to Stanford just to drop out? By the way, that's a... Yes. Yes. You think she ever had any intentions of graduating? Because I'm pretty sure, like, there's some panache to being a college dropout, right? There's actually tons of people who are dropped. Like, I think there's like, Harvard had an insane amount of dropouts to do, like, since Zuckerberg and every day. because people think like oh I'm at Harvard like now that I got into Harvard what's like the craziest like thing to bet on myself to drop out of Harvard yeah and then it's the weirdest thing

I've actually met a kid who has dropped out of Harvard in the funniest thing was he's like doing a startup he had the deep the Reynolds voice really yeah it's like a thing out there I do think that people just go to college now so that they can say yeah I you know I dropped out of college, like Bill Gates, like Steve Jobs. Yeah, it's going to get back to where completing your degree is the cool thing to do. Like, Kyrie Irving, yeah, dropped out of college. Get out of that early. You know what, I, this is kind of where I, I don't know if I'm playing the results or what,

but I'll see certain things in all of these stories where I'll go, you know, the little thing, the snapshot of something tells me everything I need to know. When you watch the documentary and you see her and Sunny come out and dance, I'm like, this company sucks out she's in charge of this did you just see her dance did you see when she came out and clapped and i go that's a moment so like adam newman the we work founder right when he got into surfing but then he realized because no what sucks about surfing all the stuff they leave out the pamphlet getting destroyed by the break trying to paddle out in a position okay and then if you get dumped and then you're like i'm going to start all over again i haven't had any of the fun

parts and it's been a half an hour and my shoulders fucking kill and I'm sweating in my suit. Like, they leave that part out, man, because that part's tough. So Adam Newman would be like, skied into position. And you're like, dude, this isn't the U.S. open. He would just get jet skied out when he was casually surfing in the Hamptons. So when I saw that, I went out. Like, that guy can't, he can't be the CEO. Have you guys seen the line yet?

on that Navy SEAL case. Have you seen the documentary on Apple TV? I haven't seen it yet. Oh, is that the guy who got pardoned? War crimes. Yeah. War crimes. That's right.

Trump gets involved a whole deal. Unbelievable documentary. Four part. Stop what you're doing. Go watch it. They show a part of the seal in question where they do this kind of shoulder punch thing and everybody has to shoulder punch another seal. And the way the guy does it, I'm like, that's a bad hang.

I always feel like whenever we have these instances of trying to figure out like who the person is and what their motivations are, there'll be these little slivers that they didn't even realize that they're giving us the information. And maybe it's my own value of my observational skills. But I swear I'll see something where I go, oh, okay, yep, that's why it didn't work out because of this. So did he do like, sorry, cool, go ahead.

Well, like when Dukakis lost the presidential election when he, like, got in that tank and he put a helmet on, right? Well, yeah, I mean, that's the old, I remember that. I was a huge Dukakis guy in 88. Yeah, that's what radical is. Ryan actually was seeing that picture. Just flipped immediately. No, the Dukakis thing, that's more of a, like... I was 13, by the way.

That's a snapshot. That's like, it's a bad, bad look. I don't think I would write the guy off. guilty of anything, but no, you're right. Your point of, like, seeing something and then it completely shifts. For Dacoccus, like, he even did something recently. There's a documentary where he talks about.

He's like, I don't know, man. Like, it totally, like, everything went. There was also some best. Right. They also did some stuff on the political campaigning on the right that just ate them up because of, you know, the instance where there was somebody at work release in Massachusetts and, you know, since he was the governor, it was on him.

The revolving good prisons, right? That's right. That's the ad. Yeah. And so that that didn't do caucus. So I get, yeah, I get your point. But like, I'll just see certain things with these people or the we work guy. I remember just reading the book being like, I'm 300 pages in. There's all these things that he's done are fraudulent. And I go, wait, he got towed out to surf just regular breaks. I'm like, yeah, fuck this guy. Yeah, that's not cool. It's just not in. It's disrespectful. It shows you a lot about about who he is as a person. There's, yeah, I make snap. I think we all make snap judgments like that. I will say that that I think we Ryan is way more practiced than the rest of us at picking those things out. So you're probably better at that than 99% of the populace.

Like, identifying one moment about somebody and being like, I'm out, out on this guy. Making it about their whole life, yes. Yeah. It's unfair. It's unfair, but sometimes it's unfair. I really don't think it's unfair. Like, wait, what does that guy do?

You know, it's just like when you I'm trying to think of, you hear about like somebody who doesn't tip. And you're just like, wait, what? The gay doesn't believe in it. Okay. I don't need to know anything else about you. I'll go one step further.

If somebody is active on Yelp, I don't care if you leave good Yelp reviews, I don't care if you leave bad Yelp reviews, I'm out. We're done. We're done. This is, yeah, this is not, you have deputized yourself as being like an authoritative critic on an app that you have no stake in. I'm out. Don't need to do this anymore.

I'm also just as somebody like, if they use Apple Maps, I'm out If I see the Apple Maps What's wrong with Apple Maps? I don't know It's right there It's right on your phone It's never let me wrong

You only use Apple Maps because your phone tells you to Because it's the automatic If you don't use Ways, you're I don't know Lowell It's kind of like somebody at Chipotle That sticks their hand over the counter And it's like

It's like hey And if I see somebody do that in line I go I don't know anything else about that person. That's actually what people are calling icks nowadays. That's the new TikTok trend. What's that? So you know when you meet someone,

this is a big thing like in dating. Ryan, we need to do a podcast where somebody explaining TikTok trends, do you? I think. Yeah, totally. I was never into TikTok until it became my job. All right. So, yeah, Mad Dog, what is it?

So when you catch an ick. So your job predates TikTok. What are you talking about? Well, no, I gained some more response. responsibilities recently so so you know when you know when you're talking to someone or meeting someone for the first time or the first couple times and you're not super close with them yet and they do one thing and it completely turns you off for someone and you can never look at them the same or like never even like hang out with them again yeah that's a nick so give me an example so

girls will say like um trying to wave down the word trying to wait trying to wait trying to wave down the waiter at the restaurant the waiter ignores them that's an ick or when thinking about a boy like putting on socks it's more girls can play if you try to get a waiter's attention

and he doesn't no like you weren't you weren't assertive enough to catch his attention or like for their attention honestly I think that's fair I think that's fair for a girl to see that

And be like, you know what? He just got reject. He's not, he's not alpha enough for me. Or like if someone uses the crying laughing emoji still, that's a nick. Oh, yeah. I've said for years. Gazzled emojis? It's just that one.

I haven't used that for. There needs to be a regular laughing emoji. It's just that one. Like you can't laugh reasonably. You have to laugh hysterically. It's bullshit. I've said this for 10 years. How do, I mean, they have like the smiling mouth open one.

Yeah, but that's not a laugh, though. I don't know. That guy you can tell he's laughing. He's having a great time, but I want to be having a moderately great time. Well, they've got, I mean, they've, they've, the guy who's tilted on his side crying, laughing, no one's ever laugh at as hard as that emoji is portraying. Agreed. With the tears coming out sometimes. Yeah.

Or think about him. Like, if you think about him, this one is from TikTok, like someone just beat a pinata and then you see the guy running to go pick up the candy that falls in. a pinata. That's an egg. That's all the point of the game. But like, think about a grown man going to get candy for a pinata. You don't want girls to know that you want stuff. That's the trick.

Now I'm picturing like, like, I think we just posted this. We like someone did a pinata like gender reveal. So what if like that guy swings and misses and his wife carrying his baby like, in divorce, no visitation? one of those an egg is something where it's like there's no turning back so if like I've had eggs with friends where like or like people I'm trying to get to know and I'm like I can't be friends with you if you do like X by Z like I just can't I can't be around you and I can never turn back and I will never look at you the same it's applicable to basically all the dating app

culture where people are meeting each other for the first time one minute it details off because they hyper analyzed the date I think it's an episode of Seinfeld this has been done before it's like oh she's got manhance yeah and then that can be an egg like oh she has manhams. That was every episode of Seinfeld. Like Elizabeth Holmes voice would be an ick. I would say if she... Or her not blinking. If she order, if she goes out of her way to order

sparkling water. Yeah. At dinner. Yeah. I'm out. See you. Or like, imagine if like she would like, like, seeing a boy like swim with goggles on. That's an ick using goggle, protecting your eyes. Like another one could be like if you invented

something that told people they had AIDS. Yeah. That's just telling that's a pro right there right telling random people that they have AIDS when they don't yeah that's no that's a that's a pro way to bring it back to to the topic of conversation and you can go whenever you want because i know that you probably have other stuff to do today then to get into ticot turns with us and it's been a long time um so you're free to disconnect whenever you want trust me we'll be okay but um you got any any other like big things that you want to talk about with elizabeth holmes anything that stood out to you um

you know, I couldn't help but like feel like it's just, it's a very believable thing that's like completely unbelievable that had happened, right? Because if the invention, if the tech is so confusing and it was all, you know, it was all kept private because of, you know, intellectual property, that she was brilliant and that she just had a couple people with enough Jews to tell the rest of the people.

and then you start to feel like you're left out if you can't invest in this thing that you don't understand that you at that point don't realize it doesn't even work. Yeah. And it's funny how simple it can be. Like once a couple real people are there from the beginning

and she knew how to play that. And that's why, you know, for whatever her multiple defenses have been and they've kind of pivoted at times. I, you know, I know she, we all know, she knew what she was doing. And the sentencing is, you know, nine months from now and all indications are it's not going to be that bad.

Yeah, do you think that she, or how do you think she was able to keep her product team and like the marketing team? You would think that somebody that was working on the actual machine doing the manufacturing. Well, that's kind of how it all came out. You would know that this was just something that didn't work, right? Right. But then remember, that was the grandson or the great nephew, whatever, the kid that's actually in the documentary.

He's a big part of the book, too, who actually leaks the story to Kerigew, who's the Wall Street Journal writer, who gets into it with voice and the lawyers. I mean, it's nuts, how crazy this is. And I remember in the book, they went out of their way to make sure there was never internet interaction. So there were people in departments that didn't know how far behind the tech was. The engineers didn't know how screwed up their stuff was and compares to other things. because she just knew I can't have everybody be on the same page because if they realized how bad this is, then everybody would walk. So she would try to keep everybody separate.

They were monitoring everyone's emails. I mean, it was out of control. And they weren't even like monitoring emails to gather info. They were monitoring emails and then admonishing people for things that they had said in emails to other people about the product and stuff. So everybody that was kind of scared, like you think you're getting in on the next big thing at tech. And, you know, another thing that we do is you start.

rooting for the outcome that you want. So even if there are signs, they're like, this isn't working out. It probably takes you a while to get to that point where you realize, holy shit, this has been a massive waste of my time. And I'm not going to be on the ground floor, the next big thing. And the thing that revolutionizes medical treatments. So, you know, it seems like, hey, how could that happen? These are the smartest people in the world.

How could they fall for this? And then when you map it out, you're like, actually, it's pretty easy. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, people just, they want to believe what they, anything that will make them feel like they're smart. Anything that's in the form of rich. Are they're going to be rich? They, yeah, it's very easy to convince somebody of happy news, right?

Also, I like your, uh, your wall decoration that you still have that Van Halen poster up there. Yeah, it adds, it adds a little bit of, uh, of credibility, a little bit of like, you know, forcefulness. And it emphasizes your, your knowledge on all things, really, whenever you, whenever you, get into the deep stuff when you've got a Van Halen poster behind you. I appreciate that. Also, I think Starship Trooper by yes is underrated. Give out a listen. All right. Yeah. No, I haven't actually listened to that as much yes as I would have liked. I'm more of a Kansas calling you. If you get into yes, you're not going to be bummed out with your investment. Okay. All right. I see Coley writing it down. It's Y.E. Y. Yes. I will get into

yes. Anything else you want to get into with her? I think she's just fascinating. She's a fascinating person. Hopefully you guys get her on. I would really like to know where Balto is and turns out she used to let Balto poop in the office during meetings just everywhere. And yeah. That's a power move. Yeah, he was not housebroken.

Yeah, that's a deal breaker. If your girl boss, lady friend has a dog that shits everywhere. That's a cause a wolf. That's a deal breaker, guys. Yeah. A fake wolf. By the way, don't Google Balto because there's no spoiler alerts on that movie.

Yeah, good point. I mean, it's like the fourth thing down. I'm like, all right, don't need to rent that now. It's a legendary tale. It's an awesome tale. We haven't had a solid movie about an animated dog recently. I forgot, I mean, should I. Well, this doesn't, but our Air Bud has.

Four of a series. Bud has a movie. Paw Patrol's canceled. I can't say that anymore. It was a series. They had a movie. Oh, okay. That makes sense.

Wait, did Balto bring vaccines or what did he bring? Oh, yeah. And I'm out, I'm out, fuck that dog. That dog was infringing on all the other dogs of liberty. Yeah, wait, wait. Oh, no, he, he, diphtheria antitoxins if they were required or not. No, it's an anti-toxin. Yeah, you know, you can't make, you can't remake Balto these days.

Yeah, too political. But that's actually, now I get her move by calling the dog Balto because it was bringing medicine in Alaska. I was actually pretty smart. Clifford also just came out last year. Oh, yeah. Yeah, big red dog. I saw the trailer for that. Yeah, I saw there was a big ad for it in Times Square.

Going to be honest to you, trailer was better than I thought it would be. He's big. There were multiple people on the last flight I was on watching Clifford. Like, no kids to be seen, just watching some Clifford. What was Clifford's deal? Would he do, would he... He's enormous. He would get into mischief. He was big, but was he like, was he a mischief maker or was he, did he have like a bad side to him?

I think it was like Garfield. felt intentional. I feel like Clifford, it was just his disposition. Clifford, his only crime was being too big. He was... He was just like break something.

I'd be like, oh, yeah, he was like Andrew Bynum. Guys, I got bad news that is actually very, very fitting to the entire story. Balto was a fraud. I can't deal with... I can't deal with this, Billy.

That's an entire other episode. They don't think Balto actually led the sled to you. Okay, that's another episode. Next week, we're getting into Balto. We're going to do a deep dive on the way. you know who was in the first one? Phil Collins. No way.

In case you didn't know. Okay, we'll have to, yeah, we'll get really into that. Ryan, thank you for joining us. I'll let you get back to your real life where you discuss things that matter. All right. I don't even know how to say goodbye to this, but I appreciate the invite. Did you have fun? I did.

I had blast. Okay, cool. We'll see you around. I'll see you on LA. Yeah, that's right. That's what people are saying. We got to hang. We got to get a workout in or something.

I know. I just realized. We were going to try to do something for everybody coming out. And then the NBA trade deadline is the Thursday before the Super Bowl. So that greatly impacts. I don't think I'll be able to make it to the FHM party this year. Yeah, too bad. Jay Glazer is going to be like, where's Ryan?

Where's Ryan? Ryan should be here. All right, give us your prediction. Rams Cardinals. This is coming up for a morning. I got it. I'm going to go with my guy, Kingsbury. Your best friend.

Yeah. Beach House. Who would you rather hang in a beach house with? Sean McVeyer, Cliff Kingsbury. Kingsbury. Doesn't matter. It's always Kingsbury. I got a text from Big Cat this morning.

He's like, hey, you and your buddy, Kingsbury, going over plans. I said, you know, we don't really talk about football. We mostly talk about families. Talk about chicks. All right. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you for joining us. For further reading, go listen to all of Ryan's podcast that he has.

Thank you. Yo, guys, you got any icks? I think icks are so funny. I know. The examples you were giving were very funny. It's actually, oh, see, I... We're being very overzealous to get free candy from a pediatric. It's not even like a full-sized bar.

It's never anything good in there. It's literally just like girls on TikTok trying to like get back at men by being able to like cancel. Like anything, like anything you do might make us reject you totally. Like thinking about... I've been very aware of that for about 32 years. Like thinking of... I was going to say, say ick is just like a new term for like just not liking something about somebody it's like

laughing laughing at your own jokes yeah like if the if ik was in the 80s would be like oh you got glasses ick yeah or like think about if like someone like trips yeah if someone's trip when they're like all by themselves and then they have to like look around see if anyone's around No. Are you okay? Just chasing some girl down before she gets to our group of friends to let everyone know you you trip like a human. When you think about, it's like, it's like creating a situation in your head, which makes it worse. But it's like, or like when you know when you're in the middle of a telling a story and then people just like decide to not be interested anymore and then you slowly stop telling the story. It's like when like thinking about a guy like telling the story he's really passionate about and then everyone just kind of starts ignoring him.

But wait, what are you? You're thinking about stuff in your mind. no no no it's not stuff that happens it is like it's like stuff on the first date that happens yeah but like girls will do it like like girls will say like oh my god if you ever need to get over a guy just think about him like um oh like in like having like doing something yeah like think about him running towards a pinata like to get over your ex boyfriend think about um him having to ask his mom for permission to like get $20 this one actually makes sense uh when when when you see

his butt crack when he gets out of the car. Like, I get that. Just like the top of his butt crack when his pants aren't pulled up on it. Yeah, that's a bit. That's Nick. That's not, I mean, now we're just talking about the entire plumber community. No, I think, well, job.

There's a hilarious. I think plumber bud is different. I think when you're getting, just a random dude having a butt crack in a normal situation, like when he's standing up, I could see how girls would be turned off with that. Or like, if he calls you baby, like, think of a man calling you baby. Oh, that's casual. Yeah, it's casual. Hey, what's up, fellas?

What's up, guys? We got the Kings, the Kings of Tennessee here. How are you guys doing? So, we're going to get into the Tennessee minute here. We've got Tyler, we got Hendon. It's been a while since we've talked to you guys. We really had it. Yeah, first question I've got is for Tyler.

Because Tyler, you went into the transfer portal, and you didn't even let us break the news about that. And you were in the transfer portal. for about 12 hours. Yeah, I think it was like $6 million total. Yeah, the shortest time ever of anybody in the transfer portal, tremendous hustle, and then you took your name out of it. What happened there?

You're staying in Tennessee. Why did you go into the portal? I went into the portal really just, there was a lot of shit going on. I was just kind of making sure that Tennessee was the best spot. They were just making sure that it was the right spot for me to be at. Now, quick question. The portal.

is it you know is it a physical place do you do you just like log in and like make an account did they give you gear like did you get like a hoodie that says like I was in the portal what's what how does the portal work

how you get it like a little pin like a little some shit you can put on your shirt like yeah you get it's some paperwork you fill out with NCAA you submit it oh it's pay it yeah it's email

okay but you so you you logged into the portal and then you logged out I kind of respect to move because essentially what you did was you were like maybe I'll leave and you made them think about that for a little bit at Tennessee and then you made them think

about what would life be like after Tyler and then they thought about it and they panicked a little bit and then you come back you're like yeah you almost lost me and it's going to make them watch you more right like a relationship uh yeah yeah something like that

well we're glad that you stayed we're glad that you stayed and Hendon you're staying as well you're coming back next year Aaron is not on this car right now so he's not going to be around to berate you for your choice that you made to return to the University of Tennessee

he was telling you to go league I feel like I made a good choice He made the right decision for show Yeah you almost laughed I like how are you But yeah what went into your your decision to stick around for next year

Yeah just talk to my family and coaches and then, you know, getting back some evaluation from the NFL, you know, getting my draft grade back, I wanted to go a little higher than what I was projected. Okay. So coming back, giving me a better opportunity to set my family up in the long run. When it comes to the evaluation, did they circle some things? Like, here's what you're great at right now.

Here's what you need to improve if you want to improve your stock. Yeah, yeah, just kind of tips, you know, things to work on for these. this upcoming year that'll give me a better dejectory I was in the dress. What's your hand size? That's the big one that a lot of weird OGMs look at and they're like, oh, this guy's hanging. Bro, hold up all the time.

A quarter of a hand is crazy. I don't even dab them up no more. Like, who hands big in a mud. That shit weird. It's weird. Like, it's like 10, 10.9. Holy shit. Yeah.

The fuck is wrong with you. My hands are at a 10 And his hand's way bigger to mine Like Just I got 10.1 over here Just want to put that Yeah well those are baby hands compared to his Big hand club

I can't have the junior one from hands Yeah that's good Kenny Pickett He's got some small hands He's got small hands But he wears the glove He cold though shit Yeah

So we helped to get Josh Allen Drafted a few years ago When the bills took him We made a website for him and everything. We improved a stock tremendously. We highlighted all things. One of the big keys about him was he had big hands. And I think your hands might actually be bigger than Josh Allen's hands.

We might have to make you a website to help you promote your phone. No, no, we're in the 24. This is 2022. We're going to put you in the Metaverse. That's what we're going to do. We're going to buy a billboard in the Metaverse. Draft Hinden Hooker. Yeah.

Giant hands. Just get the billboard going. In the Metaverse. All we require is 10% of all your contracts for the rest of your life. So we can work at the details later on that. Josh Allen owes us $15 million. So, yeah, but we're very, very happy there you're coming back. So we as a podcast had a big group threat going on.

We've talked about the bowl game and everything that happened there. The general consensus is it was a crock of shit, the likes of which have never been perpetrated on the American public. Coside. Since football has been on television. And at the end of the game, with the whistles or lack thereof in overtime, what was going through? What are your thoughts right now on that game? Are you still mad about it? Or is that kind of like subsided by now?

Yeah, definitely still feel the way about it. Just because it didn't end how we wanted it to end, first off. But then just getting slime ball on the call at the end was definitely tough. Really, I didn't even know that. Jay Wright, Jay and the right stuck the ball out over the goal line until after the play and I looked at the jumbo tron. I'm like, oh, that's a

touchdown. You thought it was... Yeah, and then they retroactively ruled that the momentum had been stopped, but they never blew a whistle, but they can say like we should have blown the whistle, so we're not going to count the rest of that play. It doesn't make any sense to me the way that they ruled that

game. It's very wacky. I tell you what, but between that and Tyler's touchdown against Ole Miss, where it was also forward progress was stopped just because Matt Corral didn't know the play was going on because he's a dumb ass. I've had about enough of forward progress. I'm sick of it.

Yeah. When we're going forward, when we're going forward, his forward progress is stop, but when an opponent is not moving his forward progress has stopped. I've had enough of it. Big T, anti-progress guy. Okay. No, no.

No, you, well said. I forgot about what this now, but. Well said. Yeah, that game was crazy, though. The entire fourth quarter, it was like back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. It's like every time you guys scored, it's like there's too much time on the clock for them. Then every time they'd score, it'd be like there's too much time on the clock for you. What was that like from the offensive and defensive standpoint where you're like on the sidelines,

trying to get a little bit of a break, but every time you come off the field, you have to come back on? Yeah, really just anticipating that from the beginning of the game. Like, we know it's going to be a shootout, regardless, like, just being prepared for that. It definitely helps us out when this actually happening. Are you like, Tyler, can you just get a sack for me, man? Just like it. The crazy thing was, like, me and, like, Byron Young and some of the other guys, Matt Bowler did it out. And we'll all be getting good pressure, and we just got to fix a little bit of the details.

Yeah. We was all over the quarterback. It was a crazy game. Big T, you got anything you want to get into them with, Tennessee-related? Tennessee-related. No, I do want to mention, though, there was another. Cedric Tillman, the drive before at the end of regulation, is streaking down the sideline, and Hinden had him wide open for a touchdown.

Guy grabs his jersey and damn near pulls him to the ground. They didn't call that either. They were fucking us the whole game. It was bullshit. It was a lot of the target on the receiver's jersey throughout the game. Yeah. Yeah, I'm still mad about that game. than that. I did, while we were talking about Hinden coming back, currently 21st in terms of

Heisman odds at plus 6,000. That seems like incredible value to me. Okay. That seems way too low. Plus 6,000. What's the schedule look like for next year? So we have pit on the road out of conference. When? And then we've got, so we have Florida at home. When? We'll have Georgia on the road. We were at, we were at Bayman. So we have Florida and Bamma at home, we'll have Georgia on the road. Okay. And then our other cross, we play at LSU. 11-1.

I'd be down with that. That's what sounds like to me, 11-1 next year. Is there anything that we can do to help you guys improve your draft stock? Like, are there any things that we need to be highlighting for you as your propaganda arm? Mm-hmm. Let's see. Overall playmakers. is your playmaking ability

highlighting your playmaking ability yeah all right I do have one more question this is just but game change this is just I like that

there are too many playmakers out not enough game you want a motherfucker that's going to do some shit during the game you're like oh yeah he

he might have won the game gamers you know what I feel like I feel like Tyler's a guy that opposing offensive coordinators you keep them up at night

they're thinking about you at night. They're like, oh shit, this guy's going to wreck my life on Saturday. What do I do about this guy? That's the vibes that are going on with you. We want to talk to you guys about what we can do to help you though, like during this offseason, during the season, because we also want to like try to set you guys up. We want to get you guys started, you know, get your face out there more. So after you graduate, you've got, you know, some reps under your belt doing media stuff. You've got some training, things like that. So how often do you guys want to come on this show. How often do you want to, do you want to shoot the shit with us?

Shit. As much as y'all want us to do, like, to be honest, okay. We can also talk about maybe having you guys do something like some day in the life type stuff. Yeah, that's what we had talked to, talk on the Zoom about last week. Okay, so doing like some day in the life type stuff, some video? Yeah, yeah. Definitely get some good footage. Okay. Yeah, I think like seeing a little bit behind the scenes of what life is like at the University of Tennessee where it's like, you know,

the real stuff that they don't show you in the school commercials and, you know, things like that. I think that could be very cool. We can send you guys, can we send them some equipment? Oh, yeah. Yeah, whatever they need.

I also think we should, you did the draft Josh Allen website, but this one just needs to be draftahooker.com. No, no, we don't do that anymore. Hooker for hire.com. Yeah, hooker for hire. That's what it is.

That's what it is. Big freak, yes. Yeah, no, Robert Kraft will call you immediately. You're going to be a patriot for sure. Have you thought about what team you'd want to play for? Who was paying, you know? That's what we're going. Don't matter.

I like that. Good answer. Good answer. Whoever, I just, a little bit of tweaking on that answer, just be like, I just, I'm looking forward to an opportunity to compete. compete that's what you that's your that should be your can answer whenever somebody ask you any stupid question just be like i'm i'm looking forward to the opportunity to compete it really that's really what you're you says if you go out watch his post game shit they'll be like

uh hand in they're like say some shit where it's like putting them in a bad situation he'll be like man we're just gonna compete harder work harder go back to the office It's like Go back to the drama It's good Because sometimes with You know Dealing with traditional media

The less you can tell them It's like As long as you can get out Of that press conference Without saying anything Yeah That's going to get your thought It wasn't

Always It's all right To flip Hinden You got any plans You're going back to Greensboro Any time soon You're going to spend some time

At Emerald Point water park No I will not be at Emerald Point But But you don't look A little key No It's

Emerald Point was fun A great wave pool there. I almost died. Yeah, great childhood memories there. Definitely lost my family a couple times. There's one around by myself trying to get on. I ain't like, bro. I used to be turned when I got lost.

That's what I was saying. When I got lost, I was like, oh, yep, I'm grown. When they find me, it's all. What was your move when you got lost? Mine was to, like, go buy a soda by myself. I was about to say, go buy like a little lemonade or something. I had grown. Yeah. I would just go go get on a ride.

No, I would go get like a little drink and post up on a beach chair. My little iPod or something, making like his iPhone. I thought it was hard. That's what I was on. Are you guys water park guys? Are you amusement park guys? Neither. I say both. All right?

You guys, yeah, your complete opposite ends of the spectrum on that one. Yeah, I don't like heights, water. Yeah, those are two things that. are in abundance at both i don't like being in situations where i feel like i don't have control or like a fighting chance like so do you not like flying no i don't like flying i actually i vibe with that yeah bill you don't like flying either no the whole like if you can't control the situation bucks you out yeah imagine if you're in the middle of the ocean you ain't got no chance none it's a good point i haven't thought about that and then like but the idea of like football

But if I'm on the ground, we got a sense. I don't know what, I don't know what's going to happen, but I know I got a little bit of a chance. Yeah. Stay away from Lake Lanier. Don't go down to Georgia and go swimming in that thing. I heard that's a bad. I heard that people be darned. It's haunted.

Real bad place, bad vibes all around. So, yeah, we'll get, we'll send you guys some, some equipment. And I would like you guys to actually, like, I don't want to tell you what to do with it. We can say, like, day in the life or whatever. But I really just want to see what you guys, like, if you're trying to. to create something. I want to see what you guys want to do with it. So like completely open assignment and just like have fun. Do whatever you think is going to be a good time, whatever you think people like, whatever you like doing. I was thinking, you know, you have the in the

background, like the little tapestry of you and Aryan. Yeah. If I wanted to do something for us to put in the back, like send us one of those, you want us like the backdrop or something like that. Yeah, we can see. Yeah, we can get like a poster or something made up for you guys. You know, like me and his face in the background. Okay. Yeah, I like orange instead of grain, yeah. Yeah, something like that. Just like visuals for people to look at it.

I love it. Yes. Yes, we'll definitely do something like that for you. We'll get right on it. So yeah, just do, do, you know, open, open play. Do whatever the fuck you want, you know, have fun. And then we'll feature some of your content. As a quarterback, you're down.

Let's call it six points. There's like 13 seconds left. Are you, is your first? thought and your coach calls like QB draw no timeouts are you like yeah we're definitely going to do that or are you the ball on the field uh where was the ball for adults 40-ish yeah like the 40 plus we got six seconds 13 it's not college cheap rules too where they stop the clock because you got a first down like the clock's going to keep running okay and what's the d and d again was it was it a dead ball before they ran the play I don't know

Yeah, it was. Oh, yeah, I'm going to be like, Coach, we ain't running that, like, switch that shit up, though. I would, we ain't running it, shit. I think what killed them, though, was... The ref, the ref, Buffalo. The refs killed everything. You can't just set the ball yourself.

That's anarchy. Yeah, he did trip, though. You got to get the record. Like, what did they tell you out of it? Yeah, I mean, yeah, honestly, he should have just... You got to get the ref the ball. Yeah. Boom, they didn't have one shot at the end zone.

We're killing. Yeah, it's completely different. rules in college where you get to luxury of having the clock stop when you get that first time. You don't have to worry about it too much. But if you're the Dallas Cowboys and your whole your plan revolves around the ref running a 4-740 to

catch up with you and to spot the ball within, you know, a second of you putting it down, that's a bad play. You know, he should have just thrown the ball sideways out of bounds after he got down that far. Didn't someone try that like 10 years ago, not recently? I bet they would do like a runoff, like a 10-second runoff

Yeah, is it not a penalty? Is there a runoff? I think it's a penalty. I don't know if there's a runoff in the NFL, but I'm pretty sure it's a penalty. Yeah, it would be the late game with a 10-segger runoff for some shit. Or just like pitch the ball to his teammate who's close to the sidelines. Yeah.

That's something that we'll have to get into with you guys a little bit because I've got a project I've been working on where I think that the downfield lateral is going to change the direction of football. Being able to run almost like an option as a quarterback, but you're downfield when you do it. and your wide receivers are also empowered and equipped to do that when they catch a ball in the open field to make smart decisions, but if you've got a lateral open to be way more ready to go with that

instead of just an end-of-game scenario, do it in the middle of games, do it when you think that you have a chance to pick up another 10, 15 yards. I think that's going to change the future of offensive football. I'm working with the Green Bay Packers this offseason on teaching Matt LaFleur how to implement rugby-style offloads. I'll take what I learned from him and I'll teach it to you guys too because I feel like if a college program, can pick up on this

it's really the sky's the limit also if we're talking like branding opportunities and trying to get their names and faces really out there calling it the hand and hook and ladder where it's all game I mean this is selling itself oh wow yeah we're gonna

we're gonna market the shit out of you guys you're you might be just a couple coaches too late because we had a coach two coaches ago who was dumb enough to think that would work well if you coach it correctly it will work Yeah, but like, he would have been all in on it. He would have been like, yeah, this is, he would have done it. What are you talking about?

Butch. Oh, hell yeah, butch would be in that. Brought, man, Butch cool this hell. Who were you guys recruited by? All three of them. Yeah. Butch, yeah. Wait, so you were still,

Butch was still there when you were getting recruited. Yeah, butch offered me like September, my freshman year, all right listen he's never going to get another big time college shop again it doesn't matter what's the dumbest thing he ever said because i know everybody that i've talked to i'm good at people i buch ain't said no stupid stupid stupid shit ever uh you'd be the first person i talk to who has known buch jones that has not had a story of something he said did any down did anyone who recruited you tell you they knew who murdered tupac no who just did that big t Jim Mora when he was at UCLA

told Naji Harris that he knew who killed Tupac. I love it. I love it. Which is so ridiculous, I believe it. I believe that he said that. I don't believe he actually knows. He's not smart enough to make something like that up. I think somebody

told him that as a joke and Jim Moore is like, yeah, I've got, me, Jim Mora, I know the real details. Maybe. Yeah. All right. Well, Thank you guys for joining. We're going to send you some equipment. And Tyler, glad that you're coming back to Tennessee.

Hinden, I'm glad that you're happy with your decision to return to Tennessee. We would have been happy if you had entered the draft as well. But it's good to have you back for another year. We get to spend another year talking to you about everything related to Tennessee football. So we're very happy for that. And if there's anything that you need from us, let us know. We'll be in touch, though, and we'll get you some equipment and a poster. Sounds good, man.

Looking forward to the journey. We're excited. All right. Cool. You want to do some voicemails? Yeah, you guys want to? Yep. Okay. All right, let's do some voicemails. Actually, before we do some voicemails, I want to talk to you about our great friends over at Helix Sleep. Helix Sleep is the best mattress in the world. They've sent us all Helix sleep. They sent some to Arian who sleeps on a Helic Sleep every single night. We love

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Hey, guys, this is Tyler from Memphis. Love the podcast. Y'all are very handsome and Aaron and Mad Dog. Y'all are gorgeous. My question to everybody is, if you could sit down and talk with any one living person on earth today and convince them of one thing. who would it be what would you convince them love and why also i'm a dentist here in memphis i want to answer a question if you have one two you can still floss that one too anyways those podcasts

make sure okay that settles that uh okay so the question is you get to talk to one person who's alive right now has to be in a live person on the planet convince them of one thing what is it i think I'd like I'd like Big T to believe in evolution. Define evolution. Yeah, see, we're getting somewhere right now. Ball's rolling. Balls rolling. I would, that we started out in a primordial soup

and that we evolved from single cell organisms, all of us, into what we are today. Yeah, no, that didn't happen. Okay, I'll have to keep trying. that takes a much larger leap of faith than believing in intelligent design. Yeah, no, because intelligent design is super easy to believe in. I don't think that's accurate. Yeah, what, watch, there was a guy and then he made everything.

Yeah, no. Yes, okay, fine. That seems, I don't have to learn anything else. Yeah, that sounds good. You don't think that seems incredibly unlikely? That there's a guy that just made everything? Yes. So now you're convincing me that intelligent design is fake.

No, I'm saying they're both ridiculous things to believe. I think that Big T is correct, that it's incredible. incredibly unlikely that one guy created everything. I find it more unlikely of what you described. I think it's probably, they're about even. But that's my answer.

Anybody else? Hmm. This is a hard one. Oh, actually, no, I changed my mind. I convinced Dan Snyder to sell the Washington football team. I can, yeah, I'd be like, Dan Snyder, you're an asshole, you should sell the team. All of mine are sports-related.

Yeah. The only ways to improve the Celtics would be to have a GM make such a bad trade that takes our bad players and gives us a good one. That's what I would try and do. Oh, I would convince the umps of the 2016 World Series Game 7 to not go in a rain delay. Get your guardians a championship. Get my guardians the championship. I would convince Aryan that an economic system,

that allowed him to make $40 million in his career might be an okay idea. All right. Billy? I don't know, man. I'd convince... That's a tough question. I'd convince John Mara that treating his season ticket holders

with more than a medium Pepsi is probably a good idea. Yeah. That's the funniest thing ever. The medium Pepsi. and it's and the craziest part about it was not even the fact that there's a medium Pepsi is that let's just say you're a season ticket holder and you have four tickets it's still only one Pepsi oh it's one drink per per per ticket holder yeah that's a crack of shit how insane is that that's so disrespectful oh my god the fact that it's a medium yeah that's what makes it real bad

that stings like you can't even just give me a large or just tell me it's a large even like a refillable cup a souvenir cup yeah yeah just go back Free medium Pepsi Day at the state. So bad. So bad. Cole, you got anything? Anything not sports related? You could argue this is not sports related.

I'd tell Enes Freedom to retire immediately so he could truly go do all this work. He wants to get done. Okay. All right. That's right. Defensive stopper. In his freedom. Yeah.

Convince LeBron China is bad. The Chinese government. Chinese government. Well, using Big T's logic, an economic system that's made LeBron James a billionaire is a good thing. Do you all see what one of the Warriors owners said today? I didn't, no. Oh, he, uh, let me find the quote. I don't want to misquote him.

Yeah, I saw it was going viral. I didn't read it, though. Um, he said he didn't care about the, the Uyghurs in China and he said nobody cares. Let me, let me find the quote. Which one was it? Uh, honest. Chamath, Pala, hapitya. Oh, no.

Al-a-Hapatia. He said, quote, nobody cares about what's happening to the Uighurs, okay? I'm telling you a very hard, ugly truth of all the things I care about. Yes, it is below my line.

Yeah. Then also, do you guys see that video? I sent you guys. Yeah. Yeah. Big Tia, I have a sincere question. How much of you caring about what's happening to the Uighurs is mostly outrage at people,

who that you don't like not caring about them I am I am anti-genocide in all forms yeah but you know what I'm asking right like yeah I don't like I don't really agree with the premise of the question like I find it insane and ridiculous to say you don't care about like that's flagrant

and different than someone that's even very different than like you know LeBron trying to like protect a business interest in talking about something he doesn't know about, that's, that's flagrant. I, I kind of, I kind of agree with it. So not with what he said. I kind of agree with what Big T just said, is what I'm saying, that he is protecting your business interest, but he's doing it in such a crazy way. And it's crazy because it's so honest and so straightforward. And to him basically being like, yeah, I mean, I guess at least he said what he meant. He's like, I'm a billionaire.

I don't have time to care about the genocide. alleged genocide, I should say, because the Trump State Department released a report saying that they didn't have evidence of a genocide. They did have evidence of relocation camps and things like that, but according to Trump, they did not have evidence of a genocide taking place. But the alleged human rights abuses, I think, like, just straight up saying, yeah, I don't care. They make me a lot of money over there, so that's beneath my pay grade to care about that. That's like a flagrant type of evil that's pretty fucked up. And, yeah, LeBron James, he just wants to, he wants to continue making money. Can we point?

Because to go off, pay back off your question, can we point to anyone who actually cares? And I'm not saying this, like, I don't care. Like, it, and justice anywhere is injustice everywhere. Like, it's a bad thing. But, like, is anyone taking any action on this? Because until there's some action to try and stop it, like, yeah, I agree. No one cares. I think there's a difference, though, in saying, like, like, you're saying people who,

spend every day thinking about it i think that's very different than saying like yeah fuck it like fuck that i don't not not even thinking about like making like an actionable movement towards stopping it because like right now yeah we're just thinking about it like i don't have any great ideas either but it's like i haven't heard all i've ever heard is what you were asking pf t people just kind of pointing it out to undercut other things yeah like this guy doesn't care over here but right it's like oh you you care about this guy getting murdered in this country interesting you don't care about this other thing happening somewhere else like that's the only time i've ever heard it spoken about i think with with lebron especially he's become

such a magnet for all kinds of criticism for everything some of which he rightfully deserves but when he's saying um i think when he's like trying to take a social justice um route here in the united States talking about different causes that he sees different, you know, things that he wants to discuss on his multiple platforms and his shows and things like that. Some people that don't like the takes that he has about those things, the like systemic racism stuff that he discusses on shows are like, wait, how can you hate on this, but at the same time make money from your shoes that you're selling over in China, that are being manufactured in China and your league that gets paid

an enormous amount of money that goes to the players that is dependent on the Chinese government putting their stamp approval on you. I actually think that that's a perfectly logical question to ask. But I think that sometimes people aren't asking it using like the perfect logic.

They're not asking it in good faith. Right. Yeah. It's a bad faith argument which is what I've ranted about on here before and it is used more often than not. Like it, I'm a Bill O'Reilly type saying that isn't saying that because they're spending the rest of their show highlighting it. You know what I mean? Like, it's the only time they ever bring it up. Yeah.

Is to use it to undercut something else that they just don't like. They don't then get him off air and then spend the rest of the time focusing on it. They never bring it up again. Right. Because we're all hypocrites here. We all use my, like my phone is sent from my iPhone. That's a telltale sign like, okay, you are also relying on the Chinese government for things that you do in your everyday life we all kind of are hypocrites that way um but i think i think there are some fair questions that you can ask lebron james especially about that of course but it's it's never and i don't want to defend lebron because i think he handles it so terribly but it's it's never let off with that it's always in response it's always to push back against something it's never

like leading off the conversation it's always in in an effort to undercover something else that's happening and then the whole conversation so far away from the original conversation that it's not even like you don't even know where you are anymore yeah and it's it gets complicated too it gets very complicated when you're talking about all this international commerce and capitalism because you could also make the argument that having a codependent economic relationship with china is good for world peace when you know both these are two the biggest standing armies in the world it's good that they're depending on each other for certain things that they can't afford to lose you know i also there also seems to be this finger pointing at

china that tries to absolve us of any wrongdoing as a country like where outside of this one relationship with china we're perfect like that that's what also wrong yeah we're pretty close to perfect though yeah for sure we're working on it uh any other conversations you want to have people Anyone you'd want to convince of anything? All right, next voicemail. Okay. Hey, guys. It's John from Connecticut.

My question to you guys is, to what degree do you think you've actually controlled the course your life has taken? I just want to know if you guys think you would point more towards external factors, kind of people pushing you in one direction, or if you guys would consider yourself the drivers to where you are at this point. Thanks. love the show well there's this one fucking butterfly that flapped its wings over in china about 15 years ago that completely set my life on this weird trajectory now i don't i that's an impossible question to answer i think yeah it's been just a series of events but do you think those events have been like you causing them or like you just think like

you've been like almost in like a pinball machine like bounced around i don't think any really controls like but you can control how you can't control the situations you get put in sometimes but you can control how you react to them yeah yeah like you controlled like having a job here instead of like after college instead of going to work at like a bank true and like pft controlled starting to like comment on Mike florio's blog on his tweets did you ever actually comment on his blog not once not once never never wrote a comment but i did i did read almost all the comments i still i feel like the comment section is all but disappeared it's changed it's evolved now it's more like you know

you get facebook comments that get shared um you get tweets mostly it's mostly like people have have taken control of their commenting they own comments now as opposed to commenting for free yeah like so for this question if if all comments commenters were genuine and literate, you would be a completely different person. Correct. Yes. Good point, Coley. I accidentally took a six milligrams end instead of a three, and I am buzzing.

I'm buzzing. I don't know. I think I've controlled a lot of my life so far, I think. I don't know, though. Yeah. No, you're still young. I love watching Mad Dog just like learn things about the world. I don't know much.

That's you, you are like a million steps ahead of most people that are your age then. I don't peep the Reddit that often, the macrodosing Reddit, but I do for, but there was a recent post that was just like, Billy has zero life experience. I saw that. They were like, Billy needs to get some life experience. I'm like, what do you want Billy to do besides like live? Well, I mean, sometimes you do have life experience. It's just different. Like you've never been in the real world.

No, Billy and I have never been. Is this not the real world? No, it's definitely not. Me, Billy, Avery, and Big Tea. Pretty much this whole podcast is never, like, stepped foot in the actual real world. One of your co-hoots got a bottle of alcohol thrown at their head and wasn't fired or arrested. It's not the real world. Wait, could a police officer?

No, I guess Big T would have to press charges. Correct. If he got hit, I think, by law, they had to call the police. A crime is taking place. And it's on camera. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, no, I mean, look at Hank.

Hank's never been in the real world. Like, never. Way less than you. Hank has been in this world since he was, what, 17 years old? Around that, yeah. We did what, like, one semester at, like, a community college or something? Yeah. But I've, like, worked several jobs.

Yeah, but, like, not, like, full-time adult jobs. Like, is that a detriment? Is that going to hurt me? Like, what, because your life experience is unique. Right. Because like all the people Are age you're talking about how they like hate Their like entry level sales job

Yeah I get scared that they're learning skills That I'm not gonna have Like I don't know how to be professional in a job Yeah You figure it out like writing emails Yeah writing emails or What else do you do at a normal job? You circle back to people

Circle back net net net I've done Excel I'm pretty good you say like it's a drug I've done Excel like Argus modling and stuff I've done like financial models but like feel like they might be learning crazy financial model yeah I got a D minus in my Excel class in college yeah I'm pretty much at that stage where I don't know excel I pretty much I've burned the boat on that I don't think you're going to have to need to know it I hope not no I am nervous that I'm not going to have enough like life experience to be like

a fully formed person I feel like me and TFT would be more fucked if all this went away than you guys. Yeah, you could adapt. You could roll with the punches. We're old and dying. Yeah, I'm a dinosaur. What if, what if we all served on boards?

Of different companies? Different companies. I don't want to serve on a board. I want to serve on a board. That's a lot of work. I want to serve on the board for the ego of it. I don't think it's much, I think you just show up to like a meeting once a year.

You like approve decisions. Yeah, I don't want to go to meetings. Yeah. meetings i'm out on meetings do you ever have to go to meetings i go to meetings occasionally yeah i'd say like once every three weeks i have a meeting that i have to be at i want to do some meetings i have i have a lot of meetings i actually i've done a couple meetings you don't want to be a meeting guy but like i like official meetings like i do meetings with people you meet up like i meet up to discuss things but like you don't want to put it on your google calendar i want to get some google calendar

invites. Me and Marty have meetings a couple times a day. I meet with Glennie, usually in the mornings when he comes in. But that's just you guys stay next to each other. Yeah, no, we meet. We get into it. We talk about what he's what he's got on the docket. I always kind of imagined I'd be wearing a suit and tie one day.

Yeah, I thought I'd be wearing business professional at this point in my career. Yeah. You can do that. I did that for a month a couple years ago when I lost a gambling contest to Hank. I'd had to wear a suit for the month of January while everybody else wore jumpsuits. Oh, yeah. I actually didn't mind it for the first couple weeks I feel like it's so mindless This is a nice change of pace

Yeah Well the thing is it's easy to style Like so for example Like people give me shit about how I dress I'm like I have no idea how to dress But you've Yeah I'm nervous

That's why they give you shit I'm nervous if I ever have to But like if I had assignment wear a suit every day I'd be able like just like make sure it's clean Put on a blue suit and put on Yeah Like just make sure my shoes are polished or whatever And just go to work

Coat my hair Yeah I'm nervous if I ever get a real job like down the road hopefully i'd ever have to do that but like that i'd have to go in at 9 a m and like not wear like sweatpants like that's a big issue is to get i i'm down with waking up early i'm look i've been getting up at 630 every morning for like the past two months but then i go work out and then that like takes time out of your morning and then i'm it's so much easier to wake up at 6 a.m i feel than it is to wake up later because i you hit you hit your circadian

rhythm right and it's like you know how it's easy to wake up in the middle of the night to go piss no well it's like easier to like wake up in the middle of the night yeah you're like you're not as groggy oh okay yeah i kind of get that at 6 a.m okay you're almost like shocked yeah like you still think it's nighttime yeah especially now when it's just dark yeah all right uh we got another voicemail yeah we got one more there's probably so many people are just like oh my god they think we're idiots These kids Well, they already do Learned anything

We haven't Can't get life experience Until I live more Sorry Yeah Hey this is Carlos From Oregon And

I have a very simple question Huh Do you see your death Whoa Carlos On that As much as you want Have phone with it

Personally I do not Sick But I know a lot people do. And so I'd be interested in hearing your opinions and you've thought about it. But you guys, everyone's gorgeous.

We have a lot of callers from Pacific Northwest. Yeah. We do. I think we should go to like Seattle or something for a live show. You'd be creepy. Do you fear death? Absolutely. It's my biggest fear in life. I think I'd be lying if I said I didn't. I fear it every day. I fear like what am I going to miss? I fear how I'm going to die, like the pain of it.

If it's like I get shot, what if I get shot? What if I get shot? in the head and I don't die immediately or what the afterlife holds shot in the head probably not that bad to be honest with you no but if it's really bad for a few seconds then you black out depends on what caliber 22 you might brain bleed anything higher than that you're right but your body reacts to and you get you go into shock so you don't feel it as bad yeah I once met this guy who was like I was at the gym one time I was talking to this dude and he said those gangster thing ever

someone said oh yeah are you ever scared like you might like fail or something and like he just goes like fail lift or something and get her and the guy goes she goes I only fear God yeah the only man I fear is God and then everyone just shut the fuck up and we're just like

what else can you say? That is pretty cool no I don't fear you know what I fear I feel I don't feel fail I don't fear failure. I feel never failing because that means I'm not growing. It was like we were talking about because he said that he used to max out with no spotter. They were like, what if you drop it and like it goes on your neck and kills you? And he's like, I don't fear.

I only fear God. It's just like what? I think that mentally allows you to do more weight like that thought process of like, I don't care. Probably makes him like gives him the ability to do more. Or that anabolic steroid use really gets to your brain. What about you, Big T, when you're staring down the barrel of an ice cold high noon, does fear creep into your mind at all? I didn't fear death at that moment, but I have in the past.

Do you for sure? I mean, it's just so. Do you fear the concept of it? Yeah. I mean, it's like the ultimate unknown thing. Like, and then the rebut to that is always, well, there were exomatic. years before you existed but then like yeah but you didn't know that like the only thing i know is existing so once you stop existing like you don't i don't know yeah it's a very weird thing to

think about i don't fear i i like the phrase like every man dies not every man truly lives shout up brave heart i don't know if william wallace actually said that but definitely did he did no he didn't okay well uh mill gibson said it which is just as good that's just a cool thing to say I would like to believe that but at the end of the day I'm like yep I'm afraid of death definitely

there is also like the curiosity it's like if I get old enough I may get to the point where I'd be like what the hell's going on on the other side like I've been living on this earth for 80 years it's pretty freaking well and once you're old

and like all your friends are dead I feel like I'm over it yeah at that point I'll be like okay I'm ready yeah like I feel like old like old people like we're all young relatively young people once you get like to 85 night you don't think betty white like also today was supposed to be her 100th birthday oh happy birthday betty white happy would have been birthday but um you don't think at that point she was like you know what

i've had my time i've lived my life he'll take me when he takes me mm-hmm like her husband's been dead for 40 years i feel like at that point you're like i just want to i don't know see what's going on I fear that there's nothing and you just cease to exist and nothing ever happens again. And you just are a bag of bones in the ground. Well. All right.

Anybody else want to bring this podcast up to a happy end? Give us something to be positive about. There's football on tonight. There's football. There's football on tonight. Joe Burrow might wear cool glasses again this weekend. The Cowboys lost.

The Cowboys lost. Even though I put my credibility on the Cowboys. So I have no credibility. But yeah, we have that to look forward to. Joe Burrow might wear cool glasses again. A week with no Cowboys games. All right, Joe Burrow, yeah, he'll wear cool glasses. He's just going to do something cool.

He's just cool. Maybe he'll wear like a fur coat. Yeah, I could see him doing that. I can see him wearing a fur, like a long mink coat. Yep. All right, Joe. I know you're listening to the show. Wear that coat.

Buy that coat, King. All right. We'll see you guys on 30. for snack or dosing. Love you guys.