Mad, Sad and Bad with Paloma Faith - Amy Jackson: I Still Regret Not Standing Up To Bully Producer

Episode Date: July 7, 2025

Amy Jackson is Bollywood royalty - she's also a Scouser, so when she said she'd pop by, jut a few weeks after giving birth to her second child, I was delighted!Anyone who's ever had a baby knows the utter madness and hormonal chaos in the weeks following the birth; however Amy turned up looking like a movie star - apparently it just takes a blow-dry and some Spanx! We chatted about bullies who sadly still exist in every industry, and Amy shared a story of an uncomfortable work situation which reminded her to never go against her gut instinct.We were also rather rudely interrupted by my neighbour Nicky, who was back causing havoc (you can follow him on IG @nickyjohnstone)I adored chatting to Amy - but I’m still convinced that she’s more ‘Bad’ than she says she is…#AMYJACKSON #PALOMAFAITH #MADSADBAD—Find us on: Instagram / TikTok / YouTube—Credits:Producer: Jemima RathboneAssistant Producer: Magda CassidyVideo: Grisha Nikolsky & Josh BennettSound: Shane O'BryneMix: Miles WhewayOriginal music: BUTCH PIXYSocial Media: Laura CoughlanExec Producer for JamPot: Jemima RathboneExec Producers for Idle Industries: Dave Granger & Will Macdonald Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Paloma Faith and this is my show. Each week I welcome someone fantastic into my home to talk about what makes them mad, sad and bad. Roll recording. So good to see you. Come in. I can't believe you just had a baby. You look absolutely. I'm holding it all together.

No, listen. Tied in with the spank. Thank you for having me. This is gorgeous. I live in room. A famous sofa. To you, she's an award-winning Bollywood actress, delighting audiences in films such as Madras Patanam and 2.0. She's an animal rights activist, an ambassador for Peter, and a patron for children's charities, including the Snehasauga orphanage for girls,

and has been awarded the International Day of the Girl Child Award from the UN. She's a mum of two, giving birth to her second, less than a month ago with her new husband, Ed, who didn't give birth, by the way, just in case anybody thinks this is that type of episode. Talk about an amazing woman. To me, she's a woman I've admired from afar who appears to have remained grounded and lovable despite being treated as an otherworldly being in some parts of the world. She's also a Scalcer, so I know we're going to get on. It's Amy Jackson.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. I need that as motivation daily. I need to listen to that right now. You're just like, know that you're loving. I'm adorable and you're incredible and gorgeous. Yeah, I've admired you from afar for ages and I think you deserve all the accolade.

Thank you all right back at you. You've just had a baby. I have. How much sleep did you have? Not much. Last night. No, holding it all together. The Spanx are on.

I can't believe. You're here. Three weeks, right? You know what? You've done me a favour, Paloma. It's that baby bubble, which is beautiful. And I've enjoyed every moment of it. But I've not had like an adult conversation.

for a while so I don't know what you're going to get for me today. Gobledy gook, but it's been nice to kind of have some time, have some downtime and then, you know, eventually kind of step back into a blow dry. Have a blow dry. There's your hair, you've got that pregnancy hair still and it's just amazing. For now. Like we said, I mean, this might be all out in six months, so I'm making the most of it. Little blow dry sorts you out as well, doesn't it? Tell me, how many languages do you speak now?

I just about speak English, Ploffrey right now. Like, you see that? I just about speak English properly. But obviously I worked in India. And I worked in Hindi films, Tamil films, Telugu. My English was all right. But working on different films, I'd have a tutor come with me and work on different languages and different states.

And it was great. It was such an amazing experience. I can't believe it. I just think you're incredible. It's such a shock to the system because obviously Scousea And it doesn't really kind of, you know, it doesn't make sense, but it was a twist of fate. It was such an amazing journey. What actually happened?

Well, truthfully, I mean, I shy away from it because it kind of comes with a bit of a bad rep. But I did a competition called Miss Teen World. Yes. And I was always a bit of a performer. And it was kind of my way to perform on stage and with his great outfits. And we also did a charity. The gala for my mum's charity, The Riding for Disabled Association. So it was kind of a package of an all-in-one kind of show that I wanted to do.

Yeah. And after that, I got scouted by a film director who was over in the UK. They were casting for a British governor's daughter. It was called Madrasa Patanum, which you pronounce very well. Of course. That was epic. Trying. You're better than me.

No, that was very good. And they were casting for that film. They needed a British family. and he'd seen this. And in all places, the Daily Mail, the article was in the Daily Mail. So they're good for something, the Daily Mail. They're all right for something, you know.

And I went for the audition. There were a lot of people in the audition room didn't really know what I was doing. And you were how old? I was 16 at the time. So young. Took my dad. We went in.

Well, you needed your dad to protect you. I did. No, I'd never been to London before. Before that. So he drove me down, down the motorway. four o'clock in the morning for the nine o'clock audition. Oh my goodness. And then that afternoon, we got off the film.

And then since then you've done multiple films, won awards. That's your place where you're basically a superstar, aren't you? I mean, I've done a lot of films there. It's been such an amazing journey. After that film, it kind of opened the way for me. Did you feel like you were very vulnerable at 60? Oh, what's that? Hello.

Hello. This is Nikki. Do you know each other? together ages ago. Oh my God, you know, Nikki? How are you? Huddle. Oh, I've seen you for ages.

So long. I'm a way to go. I'm sorry. I've just got to get some off my chest. Go on. I can't fix your vibrator. Who comes knocking? Asking to fix the vibrator.

Firstly, I'm not an electrician. And two, you need to get out more. She's a recluse. She never leaves the fucking house. I can relate right now, Paloma. It's really embarrassing. And I'm not going to have coffee because I'm so wound up. Nick, if you're not fixed it.

I can't fix it. I can't fix it. I can't fix it. I can't fix it. the bloody thing. So it's really embarrassing. Absolutely not. I'm really embarrassed.

Absolutely not. Nikki, did you get down a word? Do what? That's an attention seeker. No. You came knocking asking me if I could fix it. How embarrassing. You don't want to charge you for it?

I'm good. The invoice is on its way. Well, it's not fixed, is it? Oh. Is it still hard? It sounds. I love that you still got your accent. Mine has come out even stronger.

Mine is like defiant. Did you call your kid, Bernadette? Benadette. Shelma. No, my overriding impression is my land's back-to-back house in Antfield, you know? And the door opening, one of them, one of the backseat. Benadette. Bernadette, you fucking cheese, ready.

You're not. No, Lord. I love that. I think that Bernard, it's a very scouse name. I'm going to say that for my daughter. Bernie. Bernie, come on, love. Your teeth.

He's ready. Isn't it a great name? It's a great name. So you have tea or dinner? It's tea. Yeah, we have tea. Yeah, we have tea. And we have the whole bath and bath situation with my eldest.

I'm like, it's bath and he's like, mommy, it's bath. And I'm like, it's bath and grass and grass. Because I always say to my kids, you're posher than me. What do you say? It's not difficult. Well, I say bar. Yeah. Bar.

What, with the foot at the end. Oh, yeah. Barth. But don't you hate it when someone says. So do come for supper. What the fuck? Supper. What is supper?

Well, I assume it's dinner. Or does it mean a small dinner? It's like a little piece of like a two-k or something. You must come for supper. Well, I'm not fucking not. Absolutely. Not. I want me to say what once I was invited to the palace.

Oh, posh. And I, because of the time that it was, it was well posh, but it was an event. And because it was like seven till nine. or something. I thought they'll feed us, won't they? They're Buckingham Palace. Dinner time. Was there any food? Was there far? I've heard that before. I'm sorry, that's the worst hospitality I've ever.

Yeah. I guess someone new wanted to get a nice hood. And he didn't even get a glass of walls up. Stop it, Nikki, at the palace. At the palace. Not even at the Thames find this. Yeah, do you not need? I was like, that was disgusting.

You'd be expecting like the red carpet and champagne. It's an experience. Oh, come on. But no, I said to one of the butler guys, I went up to him and I went, this is dinner time, what the hell? And he goes, I'll sort something out for you. He was northern because he goes, I know. He was like, not even a sandwich.

He goes, would you have a cheese sandwich? I went at this point, anything. And did he? He got me a cheese sandwich. Lovely. It wasn't awkward. It was in the palette. That's why good northerners.

It wasn't the best. I would expect it to be particularly nice. Was it on some blessed bread or like? It was a bit like, you know, a bit of nervous. Yeah. So you've just had a baby. I have. Talk to me about the madness of that.

I mean, the raging hormones, the pregnancy hormones. That last month, I did not know myself. I was like a dragon, truthfully. How? Just very short, fused, you know. It was just, I was on the edge and I could feel like my body was just ready to explode, you know, excuse the pun in that sense. And my mind, it was hard to really have a grasp of things.

And obviously we've got the five-year-old, which is wonderful. But when you're trying to be mum for him and then, you know, navigate this new pregnancy and then the new birth. And you're not really prepped for what to expect as well with these hormones. I never knew until I actually, you know, fell pregnant. Or, you know, we go through it with periods and we go through it with our pregnant. And so. Postpartum now and then menopause.

It's continuous. Women's life. Women? All the time. And we were not prepped for that. It really is. So I'm interested because I obviously had two kids with somebody and that relationship didn't work out. And then you've had a similar situation.

Your first was with somebody that the relationship didn't go so well with. And now you're in a better relationship. My curiosity is like, is it better because you're with a better guy? or is it just as mad and just as destructive? No, it's, if I've got to be honest, having that support system, which I think a lot of women lack, even a community, even people around them,

like their mom or friends or people to, like, support, having that support has been incredible. I think that's why I'm able to get out now and feel like a bit of a whole person. I'm still a bit all over the place, but having someone you can lean on, especially through the pregnancy, and everything's changing,

and you don't feel yourself. And were you able to explain to him like, oh, this is actually familiar, I'm not feeling. And was he more supportive? Being able to communicate. I mean, I've never had a relationship. I don't know about you, Bologna, but being able to actually have a chat

and be open and confide in someone, I've never had that in any relationship. So it's made a huge difference. Have you got any mad things that you've done this pregnancy? I'm mad all the time. I'm mad in every sense of the word. How? I mean, just, for instance, the short fuses, the toast the other day, I was making toast.

I did six pieces of toast and I'd forget I put it in the toaster. And I'd come back and I'd say, where's my toast? And I burned six pieces of it each time. Did you end up throwing it at the wall? I did. That's exactly what I did. And I lay there with my boobs leaking one baby on the boob. Andrea's kicking off.

He's like, Mommy, I've got to go to school. So just trying to navigate those sort of things. It's overwhelming. Overwhelming. When you've got a baby on your hip and you've got these raging hormones kind of flooding through you, it's that you feel like you're losing your mind. Do you recognise yourself? I looked in the mirror this morning and I was like, no, I don't. What do you think was different? Because you're coming on this and it's nerve-wracking as well to be this soon after giving birth and you're like, how am I doing this? Last week I had the first outing and I mean the tube was definitely too intense for the first outing after the baby.

Self-conscious and kind of just having this kind of outer body experience from being in the baby bubble for so long, you know. Yeah, but also I don't think you've been in the baby bubble for very long. No. And you should like give yourself a break. Thank you. Like mentally because you're amazing. I can't believe you look like this. Spanx.

Spanx in a blow dry. Spanx in a blow dry. You could have seen me a few hours ago. Yeah, we're going to go easy on you, though, because I know what it's like as well when you first have a baby and you're sort of so, like you just described, so removed from your own body, that you might even just at times be like, what did I say? What was that? What were we talking about? What was I saying? Why did I put myself in that situation?

It is, because you go off on a tangent as well. And I mean, the ADHD doesn't help. So that mixed with hormones, I mean, I'm all over the place. Yeah, we've all got it. We're holding together. Do you want to tell me a time that you felt very sad? There's so much sadness in the world right now. And it is, it really does affect you.

And I was thinking to myself, what is the root cause of the majority of the sadness? You know, it's the bullies in power. You know what we're seeing, like in politics, we're seeing it in the media. We're seeing it in all different kind of industries and corporations, and you're fantastic at, you know, speaking out, you call it out, you say it for what it is. But I think, you know, we're a lost society and I think people need to do more

of speaking out, but obviously it's the fear that creeps in and protection of themselves. But unfortunately, it's bullies winning that is making this place like an unbearable world. Have you experienced that in the industry you came into? Was it quite male-dominated? Very male-dominated, and, you know, the film industry generally is quite, it's hierarchical to say the least. But I have been lucky. I have worked with amazing people. There was one time that really stands out, and this is, you know, away from all the incredible people that I've worked with, this one really stood out for me because it wasn't just a bully in my kind of world, in my living. It was the whole crew and cast that it was affecting.

So I remember I got a call. I got a great script to come in. And the next step was to go meet the producer and the associate director for the narration. So I'm really nervous. You know, I turn up the office with my manager and my agent and we walk in. And it's like a really tense atmosphere.

You know, you could feel like, I don't know, like a bad energy. I felt it from the moment I walked in, but I thought, oh, my God, I'm nervous. So maybe that's just me putting that energy out there. Ooh, don't know what that was about. So I walked in and sat down at the desk. and the producer was there. He had his feet on the table

and he was staring out the window. No acknowledgement to us walking in. My agent didn't say anything. My manager didn't say anything. The associate director was sat behind, staring at the floor, had a glance, said hello, and just continued to stare at the floor.

And I thought, this is really weird. And I'm really awkward, and I'm so uncomfortable. So I sat there for about a minute, and nobody said anything. So I said, hey, sir, it's lovely to meet you. You know, I'm a really big fan of your work, so thanks for taking the time. Nothing. Like, absolute radio silence, nothing.

And I was thinking, why is nobody saying anything? And I was like, this is really uncomfortable. So the leg was going. I swear it was dripping from my forehead. And I was like, do we just sit here in silence? And he says to me, after about what felt like five years, it was about five, honestly, about five minutes of just silence, silence, nothing. He says, you should.

really wear heels when you come for meetings. You're shorter than what I expected. And then said, are you going to continue with this narration? When are you going to start? He was all flustered. Sorry, sir, sorry, so, sorry, sorry, sir. Did the narration. And then midway was on his phone and walked out.

And I was like, okay, well, that didn't go well. I didn't get the part. Maybe it's a lucky escape, you know? All right, don't worry about it. Get an email the next day. We'd love to offer you the film. I hope you didn't take it. Listen, I know, this is what makes me sad.

This is what makes me sad. Everyone was, it was my manager, my agent, the lead actor. No, they were two women as well. Oh, my. Two women? And they said, this is such an amazing opportunity. You've got to do this film. You won't even see the producer.

He won't be on set. You know, that was him. You're not going to have to deal with it. You've got a great team. Go for it. So, again, went against the gut instinct and did the film. Anyway, he made everybody's life a misconduct. Sirian set and he was there 99% of the time checking where his money was going.

He was there. He had his trailer set up for an office. And then it was just a really uncomfortable kind of way of working. We were behind schedule on one of the days and the DOP was kind of flustered. And he walks over between his ranting and his kicking off and screaming and shouting, making just life a misery, raises his hand and hits the lighting assistant across the face. His glasses fall on the floor and everybody's just stood in. disbelief, frozen. Nobody said anything. I was in the trailer at the time. It was lunchtime

whilst they were setting up. Heard about it afterwards. And we just continued like normal. We continued like normal. This guy had no lighting guy, his glasses were broken. And you could see like it was a young 19 year old, 1920, just trying to do his job. And nobody said anything. Because he was the money man. He was the man in charge of, you know, this whole production. And I vowed from that moment onwards, that's the last time I'll go against my good instincts or not speak up. Yeah.

You know, when you have like the platforms like we do and we use them in the best way we can, you are exceptional, I need to do more of what you do. But that was the last time, number one, I'd go against kind of what my gut was telling me. And then obviously not saying anything and not, like speaking out. I feel like as somebody who does quite often,

and it's because I find that the awkwardness that you described so crippling that I'd almost rather take it for the team that I'm the back, I'm the scapegoat to sort of smash the kind of invisible cloak away or something. It's so true. But I think when you're an outspoken person, people always think, quite often think that it's because you're not affected by it or you're bullsy or you're confident or whatever, and it's not actually true.

It's just that I just can't bear. Can't bear it. I know that if I didn't say something, I would have gone home in a situation like that maybe and thought about it for six months. I still think about it 10 years ago and I still regret. So I sort of think,

it's better for me to access it and deal with it in the moment. And obviously like now, things politically are feeling really terrifying. And like, you're hearing things you never thought in our generation we would experience. Like, now I'm scared to get on a plane to America. I know. Or whatever, because I'm worried that we refused entry for just sharing an opinion.

And stuff like that, like you think, oh, I could just sort of carry into the background, but it wouldn't sit, right? Absolutely not. But I'm really sorry that happened. And I'm sort of weirdly, really sorry I wasn't there because I would have said something for you. I wish, if it had to happen now, I would have decked in myself. I would, honestly, if you know, but you only see that in hindsight and when you're, you know, older and you've gone through these things. And I also felt, obviously, it was a different industry. I was in a different country and I kind of relied on other people and kind of followed, you know, the way of their working.

Well, because your management and whatever was presumably were a lot older than you and were meant to kind of lead you. Lead the way and kind of have some guidance. and when I saw them kind of cowering, I was like, you know, I got a bit fearful. Do you think that like, because what scares me and what I'm thinking about as you're talking about this is like this kind of bullying thing. Obviously there are females that can be bullies, but the ones we're speaking about in political power at the moment and everything, like even their misogyny tends to be glorified now in the media. Like, oh, he's got, you know, who X has got 12 different kids from different. I'm sorry, if that was a woman, if somebody said, it just would be completely different. Or like, people were speculating on like, you know, you've been not charged with rape.

Yeah. Like, all these things and this stuff happens. And as women, we're shrinking. And everyone's talking at the moment about toxic masculinity and men as victims and stuff. But like, the reality is from my perspective, like, you don't know what it's like to be a woman that's like, that vulnerable physically and a man being like that to you. And then in a way, I guess, when you're, you know, like, you've got it in the back of your head that you were probably,

your career began because you're very beautiful. Whether you want to admit it to yourself or not. No, 100%. I had the right look for the film. And that is a sort of, yes. So that's objectification in itself. And then you're probably always torn between like, is this, do they really value me? 100% and I've had that throughout my entire 20s.

It's that self-doubt and it's the chronic kind of people pleaser in me. I grew up that way. And then obviously navigating through, as you say, a very male-dominated industry. And honestly, I've dealt with some fantastic men in that industry and great directors and great actors. But there have been some... Exceptions.

Oh, huge exceptions to the role. And I also think it's interesting with, like, beauty because you're very attractive and stuff like. So you get. it from all sides in a way because other women can feel threatened and maybe not celebrate you because they feel a bit like, and then men can be very dominant because they've objectified you and it's not fair because people would be like, oh, pretty privilege is like a thing, right? Pretty privilege is a thing.

So I felt like I really had to number one work hard and it was, it was hard work but enjoyable work, but I really grafted and, you know, people don't see that. A million languages. Oh, forget that. The dancing, Paloma. Oh, my God. Paloma, I wish I knew you back then because my dancing is absolutely hideous.

And it would take me three weeks to learn a routine. I just did, I've just not got the rhythm. It just doesn't, it doesn't flow well. But there was a lot of graft that went into it. And, you know, I was massively homesick. It was an amazing opportunity. But at the same time, whilst all my friends were kind of doing their thing and like living those early.

you know, 20s, I was in a trailer, you know, learning my lines which I'd fully enjoyed. But it was a whole different wild way to what I was used to. But definitely, I think, yeah, in a world that's full of misogyny and bullies, it's kind of important to really voice it. And that's what I've learned from that anyway. What do you think after all that and reflection, like underneath it all's being your power? What's your power against them? That's a really good question.

It is. It's a great question. I think now knowing my worth, it really is, and knowing my worth and not, as you say, having to find value from other people. Like I know who I am. I'm proud of who I am. And knowing that whether they like me or not or whether, you know, I please them or not, then I'm okay and I've got my own thing going on.

But I think that took a lot of years to establish. I don't think many people could do it. I really don't. I don't think many people could do that and that you've grown up in that sort of in that gaze and you've become a woman, you've had two children now, all of that and you've gone through all of that.

I don't like that mistreatment of you and I hope like now you're like stand your ground. Oh, now, I mean, if they met me now, that tolerance we spoke of before, that was very minimal. Yeah, the minimal tolerance is there. So they would, feel, they would get it. It sounds like you need it.

It's 100%. It's there now. So not to be messed with. But I think that comes with age. Do you think that you in the past were attracted to bad people? Yes. I think, no, I think I was a magnet for narcissists. I really think because I, your narcissists tend to, one of the symptoms.

Yes. We've all Googled narcissism. Because we've all suspected we've been with a narcissist. One of the symptoms apparently is like they like to feel validated by like a beautiful girlfriend or wife or a beautiful or a talented woman or whatever. Do they want to change though after they get with? They want to completely change the whole person that they are and mold them into something that they want and they need. Break them down. You're a shell of yourself basically.

So I definitely think, I can't blame it completely on that. them because I was, you know, I went along with it as well. So it was, um, not that I was a magnet, but also I went for the wrong type of person. And I think I was craving a kind of love that they were incapable of giving. And then when you're, you're craving that, it's kind of like a, a toxic addiction, you know, it's like a strange addiction and you kind of put on a pedestal and then you dropped instantly. So it was, it was a cycle. Where do you think that came from that you wanted It's unavailable. Yeah, unavailable love.

Men. And men. It's a good question. And I've talked about it many times with my therapist. Do you know, I think throughout my teen years, you know, I mentioned my mom, she's fantastic. And I've got a great mom and I've got a great dad. But they are divorced and they separated at a very young age. And I think I was around two or three.

And I do remember, you know, unfortunately early years, you remember those arguments between them and you remember those kind of fights and they're like my core early memories. Yeah. And then I also crave that kind of family unit, you know, I always wanted that. But for some reason, always went for a man that was incapable of providing that. Because that's the familiar. That's the familiar. It's the familiar. And you go for the familiar and you go for the, you know, on a time. kind of guy who can't kind of give you what you want. And that's just extra heartbreak on top of everything else. And not what you deserve. No.

So, but I think it took for my son to arrive to be like, right, this is the kind of life that I want for me and for him. It's funny that because I think quite a lot of people are not so great at defending themselves. But then quite good. Which again is so sad. Then you have a child and you're like, I'm doing this on behind. half of my child. Exactly. I can get myself so I can be a good mom to this child and not, as we say, a shell of one

self. But it's a shame we don't do it for ourselves without that. I wish I did and I wish I did it earlier. But, you know, timing is everything. Can they say? Timing is everything. And it happened when it happened. And, you know, I'm a great mom for my boys now. I feel like a whole person. And especially when you're raising boys, you want to be able to have them in an environment that is, all about teamwork. It's all about raising like a team player and somebody as we say, you know, we're raising that future generation of men.

Have you ever been bad? Be with a little B, a little B. Phones, replying. I mean, if I look at my... It's not bad. It is if you see how many miscalls have got. It's about 250 miscalls. 400 voicemails. I saw her on my phone. I'll show you.

I think I need Nikki to come and get the bad out of this woman because I don't I don't actually believe that she's ever not been bad. Do you, Nikki? Oh, no, I have. I have been bad. A monster when I shot her. Well, sit down. She was absolutely horrendous.

So, Nikki, Amy's told me that she's bad with a small B. What do we think? Because if anyone's going to pull out a bad version, Nikki's the one to do it. Nicky's the one to do it. I think it's a very small bit. She's not bad. Do you know what?

I'm not inherently bad, but... You must have done something. No, I have. I was... I have. I know when I have. And it's when I've been bad to myself and I've been bad to the people around me then.

It's the self-sabotage we touched on the earliest stage of the podcast. It's... You know when you... The self-destruction kind of creeps in? Yeah. And the self-sabotage and you kind of just go... But is that when it comes out on set, though, and you're the people around you?

Because I see. that a lot in my job, you know, and someone can come in and they can be a pleat bitch. Haunt the clothes. Oh no. Oh no, I'd never do that. And at the end of the shoot, they're going, oh, can I buy these dresses? I might go to the styling. Can I take them? There's no way that bitch is having taken these clothes.

Absolutely not. You're not even going to retouch her properly. Oh my God. I'm like that. I go, no. When she came in, she does it awful. Raggin. No, exactly. No, I hold it together on set and I'll slide them off afterwards. So do you. She's memorably lovely, though, isn't she? She's such a lovely girl. Am I awful? Horrendous, Polona.

Get us all into trouble. I want the inside knowledge. Have you ever, like, spoken up to someone famous? Like, I'm not going to say who, but I was in a situation once with a very famous person. And I was in a green room after a TV show. And I'm not going to say who they were because they're very, very, very famous person. very famous. But they sort of, their mum was there and they were quite rude to their mom in front of

like everybody. Oh no, that's not nice. And I felt really bad for it. And then I said to the person, I can't stand here and hear you do that. I just can't. I'm so sorry. But it's really embarrassing for your mom and it's embarrassing for all of us. Everyone around.

No, that's the right thing to do. That's not bad. And then they sent me a bunch of flowers to say sorry. But I spent ages thinking maybe it wasn't my. place. It's always your place to defend. I feel like you are the defender of the, you know, of the world. I really feel it. Maybe the mum wasn't that nice behind closed doors. I don't know what the truth was. I just didn't like the embarrassment of, I felt like she was an older lady and she was, I could visibly see she was embarrassed. Well, of course. And even if that was the case,

even if she was a real like horror behind closed doors. She's probably delighted. Yeah. He was called out. Exactly. You know? And even if that was case you do it behind clothes so especially with your mum, Nikki, what would be done? Yeah, you can't be in bad. The thing I do mostly, but I think people, celebs when I'm shooting, appreciate the honesty. Yes.

Like, the stylist will come out, oh, she's wearing this Versace, is she? Fuck. He looks absolutely nuts. Like a size 24, which is a size six, it's fucking horrendous. It does nothing for her, but that. And they go to a new collection. I don't know about fuck.

She's not wearing it. And you can see the select go, oh, thank God he's left. But the honesty, of course. And I think people are pretty, if I was being photographed, I'd want someone to say, you can't be shot in that. But that's kindness. That's not being bad. I've had you do that for me.

I've been on a shoot with you where you've gone, that's not a good look for you. Yeah, take the case out. Yeah. Or turn side on or something. You know what I mean? Of course. Because you, the thing is I've noticed, though,

that people, when they see pictures of themselves in a magazine, they never say, oh, I'm never using. that stylist again. They'll say, oh, that photographer's maybe not really fat. Well, that's a thing. It lands on you. It lands on you. It comes to me.

So I'm like, right. Once, I was like, right, that's never happening again. Have you ever been a paparazzi ever? No, I've never done it. They kind of made me laugh. I remember years ago it was Princess Margaret's 50th or something. That's how old it was. Yeah.

We're at the club on Park Lane or wherever those AA clubs are. The security was so tight. God knows why I was there. I can't even remember. and there was no press apart from me. And suddenly this cake comes out, she goes to blow the candles out, and a paparazzi comes from under the table

and snap the picture. While I was pissing myself. What? On the roadside? This was on the road too? No, in the club. Was he on the cake troll? No, he was on the table,

and they brought this cake out and put it down. Surely that's not allowed. And I thought, oh my God, you've got to admire that. 100%. Get that shot. It's commitment. It was like being a magician's assistant, because when I was a magician's assistant, I used to have to sit in the box. When were you a magician's assistant?

Years ago, but I used to have to sit in the box sometimes for the whole show just to wait for him to turn the rabbit into me. Oh my God. It'd be like two hours just like this, waiting for it, but the commitments. Like that paparazzi under the table and then in a sparkly outfit and then not be too sweating. I come out. Here she is, 20 years until. Debbie McKee. But so I'm really yet to find out anything that you've done bad.

Well, touching on the self-sabotage, being bad to the ones around me, myself and then hurting. It does. It hurts. You know, my mom and my friends have picked up the pieces so many times. But I feel sad that you, I actually feel sad that you're bad to yourself in your mind because you're so wonderful. Thanks, Paloma. Do you know what my mom? The waterworks are going to kick up.

I'm hormonal. She's top of it. She is so wonderful. But people love to brand the nice person that does one tiny thing wrong as the bad person all the time anyway. It's like to poke the bear. Yeah, you can go your whole life. Poke the bear and then.

Yeah, you invite someone to everything you ever do. Maybe you're busy. You don't invite them to one thing. Then they don't talk to you again. Yeah. And they've never invited you around for doing the one. Yeah. Exactly.

You know, it's always, it's always not us. Not us. We're perfect. I'm. I blend you. My bins. You let me be a garden. Oh, that's a good garden.

Will you do the garden? Yeah. We're in the same car. He was like, he was like. My bins full up. Oh my God. You couldn't have our bins. Our bins are absolutely chock-a-blok.

He got it. Good money for those bins. Yeah, I've lent in my bin. That's a good deed. That's a good deal. Very good deed. But Nikki also makes everyone in the whole bloody borough a candle every year. I feel like I want to live in this borough.

I feel like this is the street to be on. I did ask Paloma when I take you. He's like, I'm just saying that. I think you both, I'm just going to say it before we wrap up with Glad, but I think you're both probably way badder than you're letting on. I think I probably am. You're not. After a little tequila and it all comes out.

It all comes out. You're definitely bad. I'm bad. You love these mics, don't you? Tell her that story. Oh God, yes. I was filming something in his photo studio. and I'd been to the gonorrhea clinic

as you do, casual. No, the sexual health clinic. Yeah, because we should all keep check. Yeah, we've got to keep on time. It was really itchy. Okay. But anyway, so I went to the thing and I was waiting for the results

and I had a mic on me. I'm in the studio and I phoned up the clinic because they hadn't text or anything. And I said, as soon as he picked up or I said, have I got gonorrhea? But it was miced up? And I was miced up.

And I just saw these three heads Turn towards the phone, lapping their head off. And I'm standing there like this going, Oh, I just want to die. Oh, no, the ground to swallow you all. Oh, my God. And he obviously said they couldn't hear that. Of course.

No, you haven't got those notes, this is all clear. You should have let them know, though, just in case. But I did put the phone in it. It was bloody Radock shower gel. We don't want a sponsor shit from Radeau. Oh, no, but that's a rookie move. We don't have a rookie move. Can't have anything in the bad.

No, not that I'm a sensitive soul as well. You use like zero perfume. P.H. Valence, you've got to keep it. There's girls can't have anything around there? Absolutely nothing. I'm a sensitive soul. No, no, no, none of that. Anybody at home who think they might have gone aria,

check if you're using Raydocks. It's that. Stop using that before you go to the pack. Exactly. Before you have to go and get checked. Yeah. Then you don't embarrass himself. Well, at least we know.

Well, at least we know now, not to rub that. Exactly. That's my top advice. So we've done bad. Final thing. Final bit is what are you glad about? Well, I'm going to sound like a. little granny here and it's touching on the garden bins.

But I love living out in the sticks. I love living in the countryside. It makes me happy. I know. And it does something on like a kind of brainwave level. It calms me down. Clean air. All the animals.

I'm a big, you know, animal advocate. I've got the pony. I've got chickens. I've got the dogs. Probably got rats knocking about. That's what I thought as well. But I didn't say it bad. But you know what?

The rats were all right as well. Oh, no. Yeah, I don't mind them. I always just let them loose if they're in the barn. I'm really happy that you've got that. Yeah, it's good for my soul. I could not bear it. You couldn't cope with it.

You were a city girl. Well, I find the peace and the quiet probably deafening and I'd be rattling about in there just probably going mad. Thank you so much for being on. Thank you. It was lovely. Oh, no, thank you. Bringing some scouse joy.

You'll be talking scouse by the time we leave, Paloma. I'm an honorary northerner. Be grace, been great, same. It's been great, love. You're gorgeous, you. So, were you. Stay the same. Absolutely.

No, don't stay the same. Change as many fucking times as you want. And so you should. I think that's the way with kids, right? The identity is just all over the place. Yeah, be fluid. Yeah. Thank you so much for making you, hello.

Well, that was lovely. Being gorgeous. Got me out the house anyway. Well, yeah. Why don't you go through a little mooch around on your own and pretend it ran over so you get a brain? Shortage house is next. Yeah.

You'll see me in there, Raven, later. I've got to have a whole day, isn't it? All right, my love. Bye. See you later. Bye. Well, wasn't that great? All of the links of everything we mentioned in the show can be found in the episode description.

Oh, and while you're there, why not subscribe and follow the show too? See you all next time. Later's potatoes.