Mad, Sad and Bad with Paloma Faith - Kojey Radical: Losing My Friend To Kn*fe Crime Stopped Me Quitting Music

Episode Date: February 3, 2026

My guest today is a fellow Hackney born and bred musician, who I’ve known since he was a kid…Kojey Radical!! He’s an incredible artist, creative director and poet, and has been nominated for MOBOs, Brits AND shortlisted for the Mercury Prize.We speak about what it’s like to blow up as a musician and trying not to let it get to your head, as well as what he gets up to when he’s left home alone…Kojey also talks about losing one of his closest friends to knife crime and the impact that had on him and his music. The Wickers Charity is a great organisation working to reduce knife crime and provide opportunities for young people in East London. If you want to support them, you can donate here: https://wickers.org.uk/donate/.—Find us on: Instagram / TikTok / YouTube—Credits:Producer: Jemima RathboneEdit Producer: Emilia GillAssistant Producer: Alex ReedVideo: Harry Sawkins, Jake Ji & Lizzie McCarthySound: Rafi Amsili GeovannettiOriginal music: BUTCH PIXYSenior Social Media Manager: Laura CoughlanExec Producer for JamPot: Ewan Newbigging-ListerExec Producers for Idle Industries: Dave Granger & Will Macdonald Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Paloma Faith and this is my show. Each week I welcome someone fantastic into my home to talk about what makes them mad, sad and bad. Roll recording. To you, he's a Mobo-nominated musician, creative director, spoken word poet and visual artist, in essence, a deeply creative soul. His album Reason to Smile was shortlisted for the Mercury Prize and he's collaborated with an incredible array of musicians in his newest album, Don't Look Down. He's a dad and an Eastender like myself. But to me, he's an incredibly intelligent and undervalued British artist that deserves way more recognition, who I first met when he was eight at his mum's house as I went to college with his sister. Down the line, I actually

ended up spending about a month with his grandmother in Ghana when I was 20 and he was just a little boy and I've been so impressed with the artist he's become. In short, I just think that he's amazing. It's Koji Radical. Yay! What an intro. That was great. Thank you.

That was really good. I almost cried. Do you feel boosted? A little bit. You need it. You need it. Per cup now. Do you remember or do you have no recollection of meeting me when you're little?

No, I remember meeting you. I remember all my sister's friends. It's like a group. It was a bunch. It was a gang. Yeah. It was a gang of you lot. What was the impression? You guys liked to dance a lot.

Yeah. Just any reason to dance. Just like, breaking out into dance. It was like growing up in the middle of a flash mob. I think your sister found me annoying though because I wasn't quite right. I was always a bit left of centre. So like everything had to be precise. And she was like, what are you doing?

I'm vibing, Michelle. I was just like, I'm the kind of weird one in this crew. I'm feeling my feeling. feelings. But yeah, no, that was a good time, I'm guessing. I was young. For me, it was part of network. Yeah, Cartonetwork was going crazy. Hannah Barbera, good times. That's what I remember. But didn't you dance with her when she had a dance school as well? Yep, nine till 19, fun fact. I can pop and lock it and drop it. Can you? In that order? Are you good at remembering the routines? Because I wasn't. All right, so that was my Achilles, though, is I could

remember them, but they would always have to be like, now Koji Freestyles. I feel like we were the same person in the mix. Now, here's an eight count of him just doing his own thing. Yeah, Koggi Freestyle. I was like, yeah, offbeat, wearing the wrong thing. I've been known to wear the wrong. I just, I feel like for a while there's a period in my life where all dress codes were a challenge as opposed to like a request.

I used to be in a rap group called Orfgang and whenever we'd have shows, It'd be like, everyone wear your hoodie or everyone wear black. And I turn up in a white. Yes. Turn up in a white. I don't know why I did that. I'm the same still. Yeah.

Like, I don't, it's something to do with authority. You could just tell who was going solo. You're just like, he's out of there. First stop. This guy's not from a boy band. Yeah, he's not making it. He's not making it to the final round. He's not making it to Simon's house.

He's, right. Right, so this podcast is. mad, bad and sad. Yep, yep, yeah. I'm a fan. And the reason why I did it was because I've been called, accused of those things quite often. Yeah. In that order?

No, just like as a mix. But I also feel like you strike me. You're like a dream guest for me because I feel like we have an affinity in that sense that we both came from East London where there's this massive pressure to sort of fit in and everyone's worried about that. but we're always like trying but not quite succeeding. And then obviously we've gone solo because of that. But starting off with Mad, I already know the answer to this,

but have you been accused of being mad? Oh, yeah, all the time. Do you think you're more sane than most people because of that? I do like to think to myself that there was a team meeting that I wasn't invited to. and everyone discussed what the rules of engagement was in terms of like societal behaviour and I was just elsewhere just doing my own thing. Wimsically. Yeah.

A lot of whimsy in my life. Yeah. And then everyone appeared in front of me and I was like, hey guys. And I was shunned. What have I missed? Yeah, what have I missed? That's how life has gone from me since birth, to be honest. But I think, I think to a certain degree you have to be a little bit mad to even attempt some of

things that we choose to do for a living and sustain it, you know. I think a lot of people talk about the power of delusion, but there is a big amount of power in that in terms of just like unfiltered belief in yourself to overcome, not even to make it, just to overcome. Because like sometimes making it is the cherry on top, but actually when you think about where we would have started, especially coming from Hattney, just like, just surviving was like, pat on the back, you've done it. Done. Well done, yeah.

Do you know what I'm so crazy about that, yeah? I was like, I feel like I was a bit of an oblivious teenager. But I think that I was going to. But I think that I was as well. And that's what's useful for me being in the public high is that like I could be walking down the street with somebody. And they're like, oh, everyone's looking at you today. Because you've been on Graham Norton the night before or you've been on TV the night before. And then suddenly everyone's aware of.

your face, but I don't notice because the obliviousness is like something that I took from that helped me then, but now... It's because you can't observe yourself. I think if you could really see yourself from the perspective of others, even in terms of just like how little they actually engage with you, even when they're a fan of you, it's still moments of you being the sparkly star, do you know what I mean? So like when they encounter you, it's like, well, I didn't know one of these existed, even though to you, you're just a person.

They're like, well, you're one of these. Yeah, but it's all about the outside perception of you. But you moved out of town, didn't you? Yeah, I'm over there. So you're just quite like in your own little whimsical. Yeah, I purposely, I chose a pretty Caucasian neighborhood knowing that they wouldn't know who I was. Until I started doing other TV shows, some daytime shows.

Sunday brunch ruined it. Oh, now all your neighbors know who you are. Rewened it. Absolutely cocked it up. Seriously. I was so, Sunday brunch and soccer a.m. Oh, ruined. The end.

Cafe was never the same. Now they know you. They know. I can hear them. Have you ever been close to mad? Your actual real mad. What like? Not angry.

Like, have you ever been like, I'm not sure what's going on with me? Or I've had a bit of a mad moment. And now that I'm out of it, I now realize that was a mad moment. I think a lot of the time it's when I've revolved around myself too much and my ego kind of takes over. And kind of speaking towards that obliviousness, I can very much miss the cues in which I've maybe gone too far in this need to protect myself. Do you know what I mean and kind of uphold this like impenetrable wall of defence? And a lot of the time it's in the subtle things. It's in like the minor offences that you don't see is that important, but...

Significant to the other person. Yeah, and like five years after the fact they can be like, you know what, when you said that that day five years ago, that was kind of almost like the end of our friendship, or that was like when our relationship changed. And I just was so busy in the process of like, okay, move forward, move forward, move forward. You don't necessarily see it. And then you get it and you're like, that was madness.

Do you know what I mean? Like, why would I even say that? But like, the gift of hindsight kind of sometimes can help repair things or just help you realize why they were broken. Do you think you're a self-aware person? I try to be. I try to be as much as I can because I think to a certain degree it's very easy to kind of, again, get lost in self when every interaction is almost like pre-faced with, like, love

or compliments or whatever. you're almost like desensitized to desensitize yourself to what that is. Do I mean, you kind of just hear it as like whatever, but then or you overbelieve it. Have you been, have you done that before overbelieved the praise? Yeah, and then I travelled. And like, it's very, it's like you can be lit in Stoke Newton. Do you know what I mean? Everyone knows your name from like Dorson up to like Stamford Hill.

They call it. Yeah. And then you just, you're in like Rio. And they're like, who is this guy? Who is this guy? Who cares? Do you know what I mean? And like, you're just like outside the club now.

Really trying. Yeah, just queuing up. Like, no, trust me, I've got albums. They're big. And they don't care. And it's like, it's a humbling thing. But then also if you change your perspective, it allows you to appreciate things from a ground up perspective again

where you can kind of like traveling and find about different like musical genres from different countries and the underground culture there and what the kids are doing to kind of like uphold that and lift that up for me it's super exciting and you kind of have to remove the ego of like I'm Koji back home it's like hey you're another listener do you know what I mean and I think that taught me a lot because before that I was too broke to travel because I've never had it like I've always felt like I've won the lottery and my friend is over today baby and she was in my band for a bit. Baby. Do you want to come in and talk about the jacuzis in hotels?

This is Baby. Hello, Baby. My bestie from... We've known each other since we were 16, but we got really close in our early 20s. Nice. So this is all very long time, historical star. Okay, cool. I'm ready. I'm locked in. But Baby's amazing singer, and she's in my band on and off from moments of our lives.

But this thing about the, like, the affectation of, like, being carried away by the ego, like, I never really had it because I just, I just, we used to go to hotels, do you remember? Yeah. On tour. And they would, and they'd be, like, texting each other like, oh, my God, my baths is a jacuzzi. And then the whole band, the whole band was get in. We'd all do it. All of us were. Yeah.

I remember you being like, we'd get to a hotel. you're like, oh my God, that's the bed and you bounce on it. You'd be like, oh, God, God. And they'd all be like, oh, my day. It's amazing. Because it was our first, it was our first time. But still do it now, though.

Yeah, we do. Like, sometimes I'll get to the hotel and baby's not there. And I'll still be filming a video. Oh my God, babes, I just checked into this hotel. I'm sending you footage. Yeah. And also, what will happen is like,

Oh my God, babe, come up to my suite. Because it's like, now we've got into a place where we've got a suite. And we didn't even ever think that we would have a suite. There's sofas in there now. There's sofas in. There's a sofa. Yeah, and maybe more than one television. It's nice here with no stories because I think the one thing that was kind of missing from my journey or my career is I never had a super duper close friend that was with me for everything changing.

To witness it. To witness it. And like, yeah, what's going on? like, oh yeah, like come up, da-da-da. Apart from like who was actually in my team, like my tour manager and my DJ were like the band or whatever, but those moments were quite rare. And I do think that's a big thing that can almost make people get lost in themselves

is not having the people around them that naturally ground them. I'm guessing the difference was that perhaps you didn't have people on your rise that were before that. What was crazy is so I was, the kid that wanted everyone to come with me. So my friends now are my same friends from back then. I've had the same friend since like primary school, college. But I wanted them all to come with me in a way that everyone was working in some form of whatever industry.

Was like, my boy can be the filmmaker. You can edit. You can help design this. But that was none of their journeys. Do you know what I'm saying? If you actually, if I look at what they're doing now, like some of them work in medicine, some of them work in teaching. some of them working kind of like film and media

but what I imagined was like we're odd future do I mean we're just this rap pack of yeah they weren't ready when you were ready exactly and the problem was and this girl was ready for something else yeah yeah do you know the reason I'm sorry to interrupt you I'm sorry to interrupt you too but the reason why I said that is because I remembered the moment as you said that

I remember the moment where we were in some place I don't even know, Dubai, I don't know. But we were in some place and something had changed, you know, between her being signed, her being the cat's mother, Paloma Faye. Her being signed and her traveling on her journey and then her becoming who she's becoming and who she's become and she's still on a journey and she'll go further still. But I remember there was that point where we were in the swimming pool and somebody in this place in Dubai, whatever on the top floor like you know overseeing

whatever was Singapore I think was it Singapore yeah on the top floor there was like a like a infinity pool thingy right and it was all like and I'm like what's an infinity pool but literally like all that we're so gay and um something happened and someone said something

that wasn't part of our collective wasn't part of our crew and they were like shumash shmah plan faith and then I was like do they know he what? And she was like I don't know And then we were like, oh my God, I think we're famous now.

And when I say we, I mean she. Because, you know, Pilema face is now. That sort of like, that moment at which you sort of realise doesn't change who you are or who you've been. Or at least that's what I feel because that same girl that I met before is the same girl. I know now and it's the same girl I'm going to know in the future. Yeah. I would wonder what that perspective was like for my friends, because I think at a certain point when I realized I couldn't bring everyone, I kind of disassociated from everyone a little bit.

And I think that almost speaks to the madness that I was speaking about before, where I remember one of my closest friends who actually directed the water video for me. And he'd been with me since I was like doing my little poetry videos and stuff back in the day. Yeah, back in the day. That was me and Craig. And I remember I said something to him once and I didn't realize what I said but I could tell like

from around that time my friendship wasn't necessarily the same and then I'd say about five to six years later I'm at his birthday party and like naturally everyone normally goes because it's in the group chat. Me being Koji, I'm busy all the time I've never checked the group chat so I've missed so many birthday parties

that no one was expecting me to come. So I've pulled up and I've said hello to everyone. Everyone was kind of like shot that I was there. And I was like, yeah, I'm here. What's going on? I see Craig and he's drunk and he's pulled me to the side and he's told me what I said six years ago as to what upset him. So you do you upset him six years before?

Yeah. And it took him six years to tell me. Yeah, because I think in his mind, he understood why I said it, but what I said hurt him, which was, this is mine, I built this, this is me, like all of this is me. Without acknowledging his input into it. It's never one person either. It's never one person, but the mentality almost tricks you into thinking, I am, I'm Koji.

Without me, this don't run. Where actually, without everyone else, Koji don't run. Do you know what I'm saying? The ego thing you're talking about. That was the ego. Yeah, that was the ego thing. And I think that moment was such a big revelation for me because I, in my tunnel vision, can very quickly assume everything's fine.

As long as we're cool, we're cool. If we say, we're going on, we're blessed. Yeah. When in reality, there could be things kind of harbored under the surface that ego doesn't allow you to see. And I wonder what the perspective from my friends is in terms of. of like that moment of like oh he's he's famous now do i mean as opposed to that just being like oh that's coach from school do i'm saying like i don't i couldn't tell you what that was but

it's interesting because everything was always like happening and i come back and i tell my brethren's and they always found a way to kind of ground me in that in those moments almost in a way that i feel like harry was especially good at this before he passed um it was almost uh prepare me for the fact that some things are disappointing. Do you know what I'm saying? So like, I remember the first time I got nominated for a mobile. I was at Harry's and he's come home and I'm like, yo, like, brother, we're up.

Best music video, bro, it's the one that you're in. It's our video. And he was like, you know, he was lit before the mobos though. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, yeah. Let me know. But he was like, bro, you're lit before the mobos.

You're lit before the mobos. Not, you're still. But like, there wasn't like, oh my God, he was just making sure, like, you know. That you remember to you. Yeah, like these things are going to happen. Like, almost like the fact that you're shocked, like, the fact that I'm personally shocked that this has happened to me, it was never a shock to him. He knew that was in the path, but it was just like, don't let it derail you.

On to Sad, who's Harry? Harry Uzoka was one of my closest friends. He passed. through knife crime incident and then I remember the day like it was yesterday

because I was in a barber shop and I was getting a trim and I've had the same barber since I was like eight so I could tell him things anyway and I've got a phone call I've gone outside and it's Charlie and he's told me what's happened

and I've kind of gone back in and I'm dead quiet in the chair. And my barber, he's an old man, big up Perkins. But he's got old... Hoxton. Hoxton, yeah. He's got old man wisdom.

Do you know what I mean? He's got old man wisdom. And he knew immediately. And I've told him kind of like the gist of what's going on. And he kind of immediately told me so many stories about people he had lost kind of growing up. And obviously, you don't think of it that way. But it's like along the journey, it's like it's like watching a movie.

Do you know, sometimes it's like, you know someone's going, but it's never, you're never prepared for it in that way, do you know what I mean? And I think, you shouldn't know that someone's going in that particular way either. Not in that way, do I mean? When you say someone's going, it's like they could move away, do you know what I'm saying? Like, it's someone's going to leave the story, do you know what I mean, at some point? But you never, especially with like, maybe it's male ego again in terms of just like that invincibility feeling of like I can be hurt but I can't be I can't go do you know what I'm saying

it was at a time where I was probably the most closest to like okay I'm done with music now and I felt like him passing kind of gave me a bit more energy to make a few more songs almost in memory of him I remember I wrote a song called Pure I wrote a song called if only A song called 97, a song called Water, a song called 11. Loads of them, at that time a lot of those songs were about Harry or had references to Harry in some way. And those were all the songs that kind of blew me up. So like right as Harry's passed, I was like, there's not much left in this for me because everything that I knew all the people that I was around

that kind of made it make sense were all kind of disappearing. Do you know what I'm saying? I had a different manager at the time and she just left one day and was just like, yeah, I'm done with this. So I was kind of on my own promoting the music. I had to find new management, which is when my sister stepped in. That was good.

What do you think it was about your maillness that stopped you experiencing your sadness immediately because you talk about how it took a while to come through? Yeah, to come through. I think you go through all the stages, do I mean? I think there was a lot of disbelief. Kind of like, he's not, he's not, he's not gone, do you know what I mean? And then, then I'm at the funeral and it's like, oh, it's real.

It's real. And then sometimes, I always say it depends on what position you take in life in terms of either you're the, the support, like the rock, the person that has to have it together, or you're the emotional one. And if you're kind of more on that rock side, the more emotions you see from other people, the more it makes you swallow yours and say, all right, cool, like, there's a lot of crying in this room. Not everyone needs to cry. Someone has to keep a dry eye, do you know what I mean? So like, even at the funeral, I don't think I grieved at the funeral. And then I tried the usual, like drinking, humping.

called it humping. Self-destruct. Yeah. It wasn't sex. It was humping. But I tried all that. Nothing, that wasn't working. Bit numb.

Bit numb, yeah, bit numb. Bit too easy. There was that side to it. And then I think, interestingly enough, the songs that I wrote about him starting to kind of blow up is what forced me out of that time. Yeah. because it was like almost like it was not even I feel like he's still blessing me but it was almost like a like there's one more blessing to make sure that you're still on your path you're

because he was the same person that told me you was lit before the mobos you're going to be lit afterwards the yeah and it was but how did he end up in a situation with knife crime like it's a massive problem yeah yeah yeah that's often sort of skirted over I think um I think the situation it was unfortunately I think it was a clash of egos all around. Do you know what I mean? It was a love story that went left and a fight turned bad. Bad, do you know what? And it was annoyingly, it was a fight that he didn't need to be at, do you know what,

but I think at a certain point, as a guy, you think, well, I'm going to put a stop to it and you put yourself in a position. Took matters in his own hands and it went wrong. And then because everyone, and that's not even to justify his killer. But it's something to do. It does explain a bit about like, you know, the toxic masculinity side of like how that kind of ego. We talked a lot about that in this episode. Your ego can like lead you towards a situation that unfortunately became so tragic

because he felt he had to prove something. or that there would be no one else to help or that walking away might look weak. And on both sides. Do you get me? Because I think the argument itself was dumb on both sides. And I think a lot of people got in over their heads in that moment. It sounds like he was in a situation where he was the opposite of that. Yeah.

Well, do you know what's funny? As a person, he was the calm one. He's the friendly one. He's the resolver. But I think in a pressure cooker of, we can't, yeah, we can't let this guy have, like, what, like, brother, he's taking a minute, da-da-da-da, you're hearing all of that, boom, boom, boom. Eventually it might inflate you to a point where you're like, all right, cool, I'm going to go deal with it myself. Or let's go deal with it.

Like, come, let's roll out, let's go deal with it. Like, them and are up here, they've come to, do you get me chat to us? Let's go deal with it. And it could have just, it could have just not been dealt with, do you know what I'm saying? Just left. Could have been left, but I think I say all that to say his legacy and all the people that he's managed to inspire and help, I think kind of got overshadowed by the fact that like knife crime itself is a big thing that's like plaguing the community, plaguing the youth that don't necessarily have an understanding that there are other ways to. either a protect yourself or resolve things. And at a time it kind of became another story

within the kind of knife crime thing. But I think it's about who that person was as opposed to like how it ended. The issue that I have is like we speak about this problem. But it's like how is it that this can, like what can we do? What would you say to prevent that? What's the kind of key to, do you think it's a lack of like emotional support?

Are there people around that you can talk to? Is it like the normalisation of talking about actual feelings rather than burying things? Like what do you think would improve that problem? I think. Rather than those knife bins that they put around acne that were so stupid. A little shrapnel bins. Yeah. I think it's, people speak about it like it's a new problem that knife cram appeared yesterday.

Yeah, it's not. It's not. From time I was walking to primary school by myself for the first time, I was being warned about what could happen out there and this, that and a third. And I think it's a lot of the time a product of the environments that shape us and make us, do I mean? and I never want to speak about the ends in a way that's like all doom and gloom. Like as soon as you step out, you're worried about it. So much creativity. So much goodness happens.

But I think some people can become disillusioned with a lack of opportunity. Do you know what I'm saying? Within the ends and the ability to kind of like express themselves or deal with things in a way that doesn't feel like it needs to be an expression of strength or like, er. And a lot of the time, the people that find themselves in moments where they're usually, in a knife against somebody, they're not, they're in a moment, I panic. Do you know what I'm saying? And a lot of the time it's a game of survival. It's, I got to get you before you can get me.

And the way people have been taught to understand that is first case scenario as opposed to last case. You know what I mean? It's like, as soon as something happens, boom, I'm going to take out my attack. And a lot of them aren't prepared for the consequences of that moment. You know what I'm saying? And then you start to see the real person come at, the scared little boy. Do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, that no one wants to admit is there. That's there. But it is there. When you're at home panicking, are they going to come beat the door down? How do I hide this? You're trying to figure it out. And it's like, bro, the walls are closing in because you let that moment get the best of you. Do you know what I'm saying?

And people speak about it. Like, it's almost like systemically like a race thing. Like we have to worry about it more with like young black boys. Like, yeah, it's a... I personally feel, and you can disagree with me, that the problems in this country are not to do with race, they're to do with class. 100%.

I think poverty drives people to a fight or flight. It's why we've got reform, and it's why we've got these problems in, like, the black community. But I think that actually if those two groups would see each other and go, we're in the same boat, we should actually look to these guys, that are standing there. Do you know what?

I liken it to you, yeah? You know, I don't know. Maybe I did. I feel like every kid did this or what. Do you remember the first time you like ran away? I used to go to my boyfriend's house and not come home, which was my idea of that. I remember the first time I said, I'm running away.

How old are you? Like 11. I got eight doors down. But it felt like a long way. when you're 11. Yeah, I was like, but I packed. A bag, everything. I packed and I tried, honest, honest.

I packed my stuff and I tried to put it on a stick. With a handkerchief. With a handkerchief. I tried to wrap it in a cloth and put that cloth on a stick and put it over my side. I'm going. I'm not standing for this. Oh! I've walked out and I've marked along the balcony.

can he eight doors down knocked on my car's on store. I'm leaving home. That's me crying. And they let me hear of that eight. Called your mum. Called your sister. Howie's here? Yeah, he's here, he's all right.

Let's move on to bad. Do you believe in heroes and villains? Yeah. I wanted to be a comic book artist when I was a kid. You're a brilliant draw at illustration. Yeah, I thought I was going to do your storyboard. You've got a first in illustration, haven't you? A clear direction and an honorary degree, which means somebody somewhere has to call me doctor.

I've got an honorary degree as well, but they told me I wasn't allowed to be called doctor. Don't listen to them. The people that say that don't have one. Doctor to doctor. Thank you. Dr. Coddy, Radical. So you think there's black and white to good people, bad people. I think a bad day can make anyone a bad person.

So we're all capable of both. Oh, absolutely. Do you know what I mean? And you just got to look. I'm a comic book geek, so thank you for segueing into a world that I understand. Yeah. Because even if you look at most superheroes and the way that they're written, there's always a point where the situation challenges them to make a decision that could

either be perceived as good or bad. Do you know what I'm saying? and perspective makes them the good guy. Do you think of life like this, though? Do you look at life and think... 100%. We have to question what the motivation of the person. Like when you were talking about your friend,

obviously you're devastated by the death of your friend, but you said on both sides, there was an ego in the way. Yeah. But so do you think you look at life like that? So, for example, when people do you wrong? Oh, don't, not me. You can't do me wrong. Yeah, you're exempt.

I'm exempt. But do you look at it as like you're a bad guy? Or do you look at it as like, I empathise with your motivation? Nope. Go away. So it's one rule for you and another rule for everyone else. Absolutely. You've got to give you time.

Any time. Have you done bad things that you regret, that you wish you hadn't? What kind of things? All kinds of stuff. hurt people, broken hearts. Let people down. Let people down. Didn't show up when I should have.

Do you ever feel like you've done something wrong but haven't? Every day. The first time someone tells me I've done something wrong, my instinct is no. But then I go, maybe. But depending on how much I'm like, because sometimes you could just be losing an argument. It's best to just take the dive. Go to the canvas, let them count to 10. Do you mean?

But if you think you've got a fighting chance, swing back. You might get not out. Just swing back. Are you a devil's advocate type person where you'll just stick to an argument to win rather than whether it's what you believe in or not? Yeah. I can tell.

Yeah. What are you, Leo? No, Capricorn. Capricorn. But you're stubborn? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I am.

Yeah. But I think... That was my favourite bit in school was where we got to debate, you know, morality issues. And then we'd be given one to fight that wasn't our actual opinion. Yeah.

I loved it. No, I... If the story's not about me, then yeah, I was advocate all day just to kind of add some spice, some pizzazz to the whole conversation. But in general, I think, yeah, The problem with me is if somebody's done me wrong, yeah, I think, how could you do that?

Because I try to put out so much good into the world. I think, I dare you. Did you do that to me? I dare you do that to me. And then, and then I'm forgiving, but it takes me a while to shake the energy of this person done me wrong. So, like, I'll be making this steps towards forgiveness. Like, we can hang out, we can talk, I'll say hello. etc, etc.

But that closeness that we might have had once upon a time. Never again. It's like six movies later. Do you know what I mean? Chapters. Yeah. Cogee, we end on Glad and I've brought Baby back because she makes me glad. Baby makes me glad as well.

Yeah. What makes you glad? Thank you. What makes me glad? Give thanks. What makes me glad? Oh, I love being indoors. When I talked to you about your house, you were so excited because it's your place.

You can lock the door, you can fart openly. Open everywhere. Yeah, you can just be completely and entirely yourself. And you made that house happen. You know, it's like being able to wear one sock for most of the day comfortably is some of the simple things that bring me joy. What are some of the mad things and that you would do in your house when no one's looking that you do do

if we were a fly on the wall we might witness that you wouldn't do if someone was there? If somebody was there I do whole monologues. I'll pick a character dead serious. Like the other day I feel like I was like

I was in snowfall and I did a whole season. Bond film. No, no, no. Skyfall. That's Skyfall. Yeah, Skyfall. With Damson Edris.

It's about cocaine in the 80s. Oh, you were. And I was there and I was, I was like, I was going somewhere with it, you know. And we're here. Yeah, and I was really like, I got into it. I was screaming in the mirror like, you think you can do this to me? Like, yes. Me!

Star, he's a star. I built this. Going out of it. That's a luxury. Yeah, scowing at it. That's why someone needs to just film my solo monologues and then send that off. Send that to Paramount. Are you an actor?

I'm trying to be. Oh, you see it? Yeah, I'm really good at not getting casted. I'm so good on that as well. I'm so good. Me and you both. I've been to so many auditions and left the same way I came in. Same.

Thank you so much, Koji, for coming on to this podcast. You're really my hero. Thank you. You're my hero. Never my villain. Oh, I want to be, can I be a villain one day? Yeah, you should. You'd be a good, for the role.

And hi to everyone in the Quartan family. Hello. Hello, mum. That was lovely. Thanks for that, Blummer. Hi, G. Same time next week. Please, I would love that.

I'll love that. You're the greatest therapist I've ever had. Stick to the 50 minutes next time. I'll never. I don't like rules. See you later. Guaranteed. I think you're a man.

I'm amazing, love you. Goodbye. I just love him. He's amazing, it's perfect. Well, wasn't that great? All of the links of everything we mentioned in the show can be found in the episode description. Oh, and while you're there, why not subscribe and follow the show too?

See you all next time. Later's potatoes!