Mad, Sad and Bad with Paloma Faith - Paloma Reflects on Season 1

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

As we come to the end of the first series of Mad, Sad & Bad, I've been lucky enough to chat to some amazing people - from discussing madness with Mel B, to chatting about great sadnesses for Elizabeth Day and laughing with Eve about being naughty and - I think - a bit of a badass, I feel like I've learnt a lot, so thought it would be nice to sit down and reflect on all these fantastic conversations.So this is me, after the guests have gone, the kit's been packed away, and the crew have left, having a quiet look back at the series.Thank you so much for joining me on this journey - whether you've listened from the start, or just tuned into the odd episode - it means so much, and who knows, we could be back for more soon....#PALOMAFAITH #MADSADBAD—Find us on: Instagram / TikTok / YouTube—Credits:Producer: Jemima RathboneAssistant Producer: Magda CassidyEdit Producer: Pippa BrownEditor: Shane O'ByrneVideo: Jake Ji & Grisha NikolskyVideo Editor: Josh BennettOriginal music: BUTCH PIXYSocial Media: Laura CoughlanMarketing: Eleanore BamberExec Producer: Jemima RathboneExec Producers for Idle Industries: Dave Granger & Will MacdonaldSenior Exec Producer: Holly Newson Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Paloma Faith and this is my show. Hello there, it's me, Paloma, just me this episode. As we've come to the end of season one, I thought it'd be nice for just me and you, my lovely listeners, to reflect on all the great guests I've chatted to. It's really been an amazing moment for me. Before we get into that, it might be worth talking a bit about why I was interested in talking to people

about being mad, sad and bad. For me, these words are, particularly interesting because we all perceive differently based on the experiences we've had. And I was interested to chat to people I admire about how they perceive what it is to be mad, sad and bad. Growing up in a home as an only child with one woman as my mum, we both communicated in a similar way. I was raised to express myself, not to mince my words, as she was a child of the 60s. I guess there was a freedom to the way she taught me to be.

It was a post-feminist freedom. fear of nudity. I was taught to question authority if it wasn't always right or for the greater good. I was raised to believe I could achieve anything I put my mind to. There was no real male influence, not much fear in the home. That came from the world outside. And it wasn't until I stepped into the public eye that I realized I was different. I was kind of oblivious before. I also realized I wasn't different because I was per se. But what made me, different at the time was my authenticity and freedom to be unafraid of my own truth. I felt a bit of an outsider. The press was

constantly calling me cookey or quirky and I began to resent those terms because I felt singled out. My genuine intention was always to have fun and laugh, especially when I was wearing insane outfits. I wanted to reject this ideal that women would and should always want to look pretty or nice. I genuinely didn't care at the time. That wasn't how I was raised. It all felt a bit conventional. Anyway, cut to several years in the entertainment industry, I realised everyone was more similar to me than I imagined. We're all mad, sad and bad, not just the loud, crazy, uninhibited ones. So I set about asking some people I knew about their experiences of those qualities. And boy, was I right, we're all completely

off our rockers and how wonderful and fortifying it was to discover. What a bloody relief. So from Spice Girls to LBC presenters, we've had a real plethora of guests from different backgrounds and industries and they all had really interesting and unique takes and experiences to share with me. So let's get reflective and dive in. We always kick off with the time that our guests felt mad. And for this section, I'd say that guests fall into two categories,

Mad to mean angry and mad to mean insane. I originally thought it meant insane because that's kind of the English understanding of it. But I think what was most interesting to me is that we kind of used this word quite flippantly in culture. I think we're always saying, oh, it's a bit mad or I feel a bit mad or whatever. But like coming from a personal perspective

where at certain times in my life, not many times, but there have been times where I've come close to feeling what it might be to actually lose it. And it certainly didn't manifest in the way that, like, superficially I've been branded as mad, like a sort of eccentric way. It was actually quite a sad feeling and a bit lost and a bit of a failure, actually, when that had happened to me.

And I'm not saying that it is because I think that it's important to be in touch your feelings and like process them and work through them. I think what's really important and what I've taken away from the whole experience of interviewing people is that it's kind of very human to experience all these feelings. And we shouldn't sort of put ourselves down or feel ashamed or feel guilty about having got close to them at times in our lives because life does throw some pretty awful obstacles at you. but what really is amazing rather than what happens to you is how you cope with it.

So I felt really privileged to speak to some of the guests that came on and opened up to me. And some of the people like Mel B's, for example, opening up about her abusive partner and questioning her own sanity, that must have been like a really terrifying place to be in. And I think when you're like a kind person, sweet person, which she really struck me as, it's quite often that we blame ourselves for things. And, you know, I've been in some difficult relationships in the past where, in hindsight, I look back and I think, my God, why'd they put up with that? Or, you know, what was I thinking that I was questioning myself so much or blaming myself or allowing that person to blame me for everything? And speaking to her, I felt quite moved,

but also really, really glad that there's a woman there telling us, you know, that it's not our imagination. And so I think what I learned from her speaking about her questioning herself and her madness is that sometimes we have to trust our instincts. So sometimes now that I've had a chat with Mel and I'm in a situation where somebody might say, you're being mad, I'll be like, no, I'm not being mad. Maybe I've misunderstood what you're saying, but the way I feel right now is not mad. It's a very valid interpretation of it. So I hope that you as listeners got that from that as well, because I certainly did.

Okay, let's look back on some other guests. There have been some, like, quite fun madnesses. Like, I really, really, really enjoyed Rupert Everett talking about when he cut his pubic hair off and sent it. to somebody who complained about his performance. I found that so funny. And I actually think that what comes from that is how important it is sometimes to just be free to be a bit mad.

Like not always being perfect and on form and whatever. And sometimes it is funny and it's liberating to just be free. And I think that's what I was talking about in my introduction about the way I was raised. Like people always telling me that I'm mad, but I don't think sometimes I am. I think sometimes what's mad is trying to conform to like social expectations, particularly as a woman and just as a person.

Like, why not just be a bit crazy sometimes as long as you're not hurting anybody? So I found like that section really great because sometimes I get oversensitive and I think, oh, everyone thinks I'm mad and I'm an outsider. But after speaking to everyone on that one, hearing some of the more funny madness is. I thought, no, I'm in like a good crowd here. And I'm really proud to do it. So I hope that as listeners, you felt the same.

And I'd love to hear from you as well. Like if you want to write to me in the comments or DMs on the Mad, Sad and Bad Podcast, Instagram about some of the mad, sad and bad things you've done, I'd really love to hear them because let's face it, we're all human. And sometimes we need a bit of. relief from all the expectation and the pressure of the world just to be a bit wild. And I just think that's really healthy. So, well done you guys. We're being insane. Next, we're on to sad. This section is probably the most straightforward in terms of perception of the word. But I do

find it interesting how we deal with sadness and how it manifests, how we can continue on with it. And I think one of the most poignant guest who spoke about that is Elizabeth Day. She came on the podcast and spoke about the idea that she really wanted children and then found out that she couldn't after lots of years of trying. And I've personally had IVF several times, I think six transfers in total for my two children. And I know what she spoke about. and she'd done a lot more red collections than me. I understand that feeling.

But luckily, I was very fortunate to have children off the back of it, so it kind of felt worthwhile. But speaking to her about her sadness, I completely empathised with it. And I think Eve touched on that as well. Like, it's obviously a big thing for women and she got quite tearful speaking about her IVF journey. But what really struck me on an optimistic level about sadness with Elizabeth

was how she turned it into a reason for her to become the great success that she has. So she has found her drive and creativity and attributes that loss to becoming the person she is today, which is super, super successful writer, podcaster, thinker, and she exudes warmth. and it's just really wonderful to know that sometimes we can feel so, so sad about something, but what it presents to us or provides us with is like a new life and a new beginning and perhaps a new reason. I think it's quite common for women to feel like that's their purpose. But I know quite a lot of women who haven't had children

and who have become like almost necessary pillars of society. because they have so much space for other people. And I'm not saying that mothers don't do that, but you are otherwise distracted, you know, especially in the early days. And to me, as a listener, what she speaks about is just so valuable. But I look at, like, sad moments in my life. Like, I reflected on, after I had spoken to her about breaking up my kid's dad.

And for years I felt that it was a failure not to give my, children, that kind of experience of 2.4 children in the home, or the convention at least, that we're taught is the only way. But actually what they have got is like an example of a woman who is independent, who is constantly putting out fires, is capable of being kind and loving to them and sustain a career. I mean, I think about stuff all the time. I think, I like to say, A lot of people comment on it when they meet my kids that they're super happy kids and they feel very confident. So not everything is what you think it would be initially.

And I think it's important to know that some sadnesses really lead to the making of us in a way as awful as they can be. One of the most poignant moments of that section, I think on reflection is the way that Puppers spoke about grief. and he'd obviously had two major losses, both parents quite close together when he was very young. And his process of making peace with loss really moved me. And quite a lot of people who were in the studio welled up and were just like, wow, is he the Oracle? And I think that was my biggest takeaway from the sad section, this series, actually.

And my mum speaks about it, you know, with me and Alan Carr on episode one about how the biggest sadness will be loss of the parent. And, you know, Papa did speak about that really bravely and really sort of astutely and stuff. But speaking to Papa that day about his feelings and about what's immortal, I guess, was really profound because there are, you know, even in loss, like I know I've had quite a few friends. die recently. And I think what I have got from that and what speaking to Papa was really wonderful was that actually quite a lot of how people touch us before they die stays with us and not just with us

but then our kids and their kids and their kids and there is something immortal in like the spirit of a person. I really believe that and I think it adds hope as well. Also interesting when speaking to Rupert. about him admitting that he was born melancholy. And I think I really relate to that because all of the artists and the writers and everything that I've always admired have got that in common,

that look in the eyes of someone who's got sadness adding so much more depth to them. So even though we want to protect ourselves and our children and all of that stuff from sadness or sad things, it does add to us, I think. think, I think it adds layers to you and actually more often than not makes a person more beautiful and more profound and maybe more in touch with life. So in some ways, I'm grateful for some of the

sad things that have happened to me. I think we could all agree though that that's a bit of an ideology and that sometimes we're like, a few less might be nice. It's a real moment in time, for example as well when you look at the world and politics and what's happening to human beings in the world and how sad that is. I think we could do it without mass destruction and potential war or whatever. But like in terms of like individual moments of sadness, like the inevitable dealings with loss in love or even the loss of life, I think they make us who they are as horrific as all those things are.

It's a tough one, isn't it? sort of love it and hate it. I'm going to leave a little pause because I always feel a bit sad, talking about sad. I should move on to bad. It's been one of the words that I think's been most divisive because bad can be badass, like a really cool person that does, you know, but it can also be bad as in really out of order or unkind or illegal or naughty or whatever. And I think like I've been called, I've been, I've been called trouble quite a lot in my life.

Like, oh, he is trouble. But in hindsight, compared to most people I know, I've sort of done the least bad things like bad on paper if we were going to talk about how religions view bad, like stealing or adultery or killing or whatever. Not that I know anybody who's killed anyone. Well, I hope not anyway. But I think that when it comes to what I would deem as actually bad, then I'm really not bad. But I'm always the one in the room that is singled out. And I've always been, even since, like, university or whatever.

Oh, I didn't go university, but I went to dance school. And they'd always be like, we know who the troublemaker is. And it sort of annoyed me because I was like, come on, mate. Like, behind closed doors, you're cheating on your wife or, you know, whatever. and I'm just here mucking about questioning your stupid rules that only serve you for your power trip. So I sort of resent the word, as you can hear in the tone of my voice. I really like speaking to AJ about bad because I get the sense that he's just a bloody good person when it comes down to it because AJ is such as like specially kind

and I think deeply considerate and moral person. And I sort of just forgive him anything. And I found him just more adorable because of the bad stuff that he'd done, like stealing the hand sanitizer. I just think like sometimes we need to pick our battles. And there are people in this world doing the most awful things. There are world leaders committing crimes, beyond crimes, beyond crimes, and not being punished for it.

And there are people doing awful things and having really, tiny sentences. And I just think sometimes we can figure of ourselves some mistakes as long as we learn from them and become, you know, not do it again. Although speaking to Catherine, she was like, maybe you will do it again. She doesn't even go that far. But she's never felt bad about anything. That shocked me. I found that shocking because I think that's quite rare for me and like the people I know because most of my conversations with friends and stuff are about, oh, I feel really bad about X or Y. So it was quite intriguing to meet somebody who said they never felt bad.

And all power to her, because it must mean she's got so much more time to do other things. But there were loads of responses to the word bad. And I think, like, people really embraced it, like male being, even Rupert liked being naughty. and then there's a lot of people who feel really guilty. And I think one of the things that struck me, because I do feel quite guilty a lot,

and I think that's why I sort of resent being branded as bad because I'm so not bad, because I sit around worrying about what I've said or whether I've hurt someone's feelings or if I did the wrong thing all the time when it comes to affecting or hurting somebody negatively. But when it comes to like silly rules that feel like they are.

only served to bolster someone's ego. I'm sort of a bit like, sorry, but not doing it. Like in the airport, in America, when they put the yellow lines on the floor and they're like stand behind the line. I can't help but put like my little toe over it just to be like ridiculous. I don't know what I'm getting out of it. It's really childish and I admit that. But yeah, one of the things that struck me most, one of the guests that struck me most on this was Ashling because she spoke a lot about a type of bad that I feel I relate to because what she described about not seeing her neighbour before he died was not actually bad. It was just that she wasn't really able to. She was jet lagged or whatever, but she's felt bad about it.

She's carried that bad feeling. And I think that's quite a female trait to dwell on feeling bad. And I do that quite a lot. She got quite a emotional on that bit. And I didn't actually expect her to because she's comedian. She's quite light all the time. I think she was surprised as well, but it kind of welled up in her. And I can visibly see that she genuinely felt bad about this thing that actually she shouldn't really feel bad about because she'd gone to see him and invested so much in that friendship. And I think they've both got a lot out of it while he was alive. I also was 20 minutes late to be at somebody's deathbed, not that long ago.

And I was like the person they wanted with them. And because I had my kids, I couldn't get there in time because I'm a single mom now. So I had to like arrange someone to watch them for me, which I didn't have. And it took so long to be like, who's going to look after my kids? Because I didn't want them to be in that situation. that by the time I got there, the person had passed away. So I understood that feeling of bad, but I also think that sometimes we have to let ourselves off the hook

and we do our best. And sometimes our best doesn't feel good enough, but it is. Yeah. The last little bit that I like to throw on the end of the show is glad because I like to end on a high and I am an optimist. I genuinely am. Well, someone's got to be, haven't they? Because it's all doom and gloom half the time.

But yeah, I like to speak about glad because gratitude's really important. I think if we don't remind ourselves what we're glad about, then we just end up a bit windy. So I love this bit. And what struck me about it is the majority of people, obviously, with a few exceptions, most people were talking about their health. And I think, you know, we all know, and I'm terrible.

I'm a terrible hypochondriat. The moment I get ill, I just think, oh my God, this is it forever. I've got to feel like this forever. And then I'm better and I've forgotten within minutes that I was ill in the first place. So it's ridiculous. But having been around people who've been very ill and I've watched some people die from it and some people come back from it, particularly from cancer, I think it is a really good one to be glad about

because we can't really do anything without our health. We can't love, we can't have adventures, we can't make changes, we can't help the world, we can't learn, all those things. So health's a big one. I was very moved by James O'Brien's adoration of his wife and his gladness to be with her. And I guess as somebody who was raised in a household with no, real male role models and I've developed, I guess, over my life a bit of cynicism about true

love and about men who are capable of it, etc. I really felt like it was special and really meant that he felt that about his wife and it's really good for me particularly but probably all of us to hear that there are really kind, nice men in the world and that gives us a lot of hope And I found that really special. And I also just think it's really important to acknowledge that Jamila is just the real G. When she talks about getting older and being glad to get older, I was like, here, here. I think it's bloody devastating that the culture of art and celebrity and all of that is all about celebrating women's youth and not so much about men's. Like, they're allowed to get older.

And I hope and feel that potentially with more female writers being pushed to the fore and directors and all of that, that that's going to change because I agree with Jamila, I feel much better. The older I get, the more that time passed, the more confident I am about, what I want, what I'm prepared to tolerate, what I'm prepared to feel bad about, what I'm prepared to forgive myself for, and all of that is it comes with age and I am just so grateful that Jamila said it, and I agree with her.

Every year that passes, I genuinely feel happier. And I'm sure at some point, I mean, I speak to my mum about it all the time and she's a bit older. So she's nearly 80 and she's like, that stops at some point because then you just start getting annoyed with your body. But actually, I just, I feel like once I become an old lady,

my wardrobe and my personality will probably suit me better. And I'll no longer be just like an outsider, outrageous or whatever. I'll just be a mad old lady. And I think that's basically where I'm heading and what I'm looking forward to. Ha ha. It's really going to wrap up the whole of season one. And I just wanted to say a big thank you to those of you have listened, whether you've hopped on recently or you've been listening from the start.

I'm so grateful. I really, really enjoyed doing this. I love talking. I love listening to people. I really hope that if you all, liked it, that you'll subscribe and like and tell your friends about it. I'd also just like to say a special thank you to my wonderful producer, Jemima, and to everyone at Jampot Productions, who've helped make this podcast.

They're my new podcast family, and I'm just really grateful to everyone there. It's been really special. So don't forget, you can catch us on YouTube if you want to see the pictures and all the social channels too if you want to watch any of these episodes and see my lovely living room which is slightly chaotic and often full of different toys in the background because it is my actual house that I make it in but that's all for now and I hope you enjoyed it I'm Paloma Faith and I'm always going to be this podcast title mad sad and bad and proud