Mad, Sad and Bad with Paloma Faith - Romesh Ranganathan: I Help Others Because I Couldn't Help My Friend

Episode Date: July 14, 2025

TW: This episode contains discussion of suicideRomesh Ranganathan is known for his BAFTA Award winning show, Rob & Romesh, presenting across TV and radio and his hallmark cynical comedy - but really, what shines through is his generosity, openness and vulnerability, particularly around the subject of mental health. We talk about how hard it is to tell when someone’s really struggling with their mental health, talking therapy with your children, what it’s really like going to Centre Parcs when you’re in the public eye and Romesh makes a big, BAD confession. Plus – Romesh’s Mum, Shanthi pops by for a chat with me and my mum, Pam; we talk all about Shanthi’s incredible sacrifices, the impact of Romesh’s relationship with his Dad on his mental health – and Romesh and I bond over what it’s like having Mums that will fight for you on social media comments but also humble you more than anyone. Hope you all enjoy xIf you would like support on any of the issues mentioned in the episode, please head to CALM - www.thecalmzone.net#ROMESHRANGANATHAN #PALOMAFAITH #MADSADBAD—Find us on: Instagram / TikTok / YouTube—Credits:Exec Producer: Jemima RathboneProducer: Magda CassidyVideo: Josh Bennett & Lizzie McCarthySound: Shane O'BryneMix: Shane O'BryneOriginal music: BUTCH PIXYSocial Media: Laura CoughlanExec Producer for JamPot: Jemima RathboneExec Producers for Idle Industries: Dave Granger & Will Macdonald Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Before we begin, a quick content warning that this episode contains discussion of suicide, which some listeners might find upsetting. Hello, I'm Paloma Faith and this is my show. Each week, I welcome someone fantastic into my home to talk about what makes them mad, sad and bad. Roll recording. Tell me when you're rolling. Good. Good sound.

Okay, because I have my mum sometimes on my podcast, and Ramesh is on this episode. I just thought it would be a missed opportunity if I didn't have the two mums, Pam and Shanty, together, both have experience what it's like to have a really close relationship with your children because of what you both been through together but also because you've both got children

who are in the public eye and I think that sort of poses some difficulties sometimes. Is it difficult to what? watch an adult child make mistakes? Yes, I do find it difficult to accept that. Yeah, because when he makes something wrong, it upset me, it will take two, three days for me to digest. What kind of mistakes have you been worried about?

If I read about Romage that he has been ruled to somebody and the comments comes, you know, or you're rubbish or something like that, it hurts me. My mum goes on my social media. and answers people, don't you? I do. She fights for me. I asked Ramesh, he said,

don't ever do that. Well, she doesn't ask me permission for anything. I don't do it a lot, but I do, I think it's really outrageous. Do you feel protective? I am, always, always. But do you think sometimes that Ramesh has been rude to people and then you've told him you shouldn't have said that? Yes, I have, I have.

I wouldn't accept that if Ramesh is rude, somebody, no. But I think they get carried away. I mean, we might get carried away on this. Never know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? And I just think you get carried away. What did I say? And of course, I just took paracitoral to calm me down. Yeah, I know, I know. I know. Meeting your daughter in person and I was so excited. Oh, that's lovely. It's how popular I love a song. That's lovely. Really, so. Yeah. Yeah, well, that's really nice to hear.

Paracetamol, does it? You just can't mean. Does it? Not pain. No pain. That's like a placebo there, though, that is. Yeah, you must have it. You used to take anadine for everything when I was going up.

If we had a problem, she'd just go, I'm having an anadine. But it wouldn't even be that she had a headache or anything. But you're like that with singing, aren't you? You must have your singing lesson with your guy from L.A. Yeah, I say I can't do the show. Calm you down. That's right. He gives you all the support.

I love how you're both just pushing over the counter drugs. We can be an advert. Paracetol and an anodyneney. That'll be great, won't you? Take one for your stress. Hello. Guess what? What?

Your mum's here. What? Your mum's here. Why? She's having a chat with my mum. Why? Is that weird? Yeah, it is really weird.

Come in? Well, we live five minutes, Richard. What? Why is she here? She just came for a little chat with me first. Is that not? Okay, is it awkward now? Well, it's ready to...

You're filming this, aren't it? I've got to... No, it's cool. It's cool. I'm really happy with it. Don't you love your mum? Yeah, I do, but I don't like... Come through.

It's nice to do stuff on my own. I mean, I'm only getting accused of using her. How do I do this, plumber? Just turn it, I'll turn it off. Romish. Romit? Could you turn your mum's phone on silence? She's worried.

Come? Yes? Yeah, so what's wrong? No, you don't have any other drunk with? Never send your children's photograph. Ready? Why didn't you tell either of us how difficult it would be to be a parent?

Although it's difficult, it's such a joy. Yeah. So you would never put anyone off that, would you? No. No. And also with the grandchildren, oh my God. Oh, they're lovely. That's happening.

Do you prevent it? the grandchildren to the children? No, I prefer my children. Your own children. She prefers the grandchildren. What your mom gone through, but I had a very, very extremely difficult life from 95 to when Aunt Ramesh became famous, he was studying. I had so many problems with my husband. And I couldn't give all the love which I had in my heart to Ramesh and my son, other son.

I regret now. So I'm trying because they missed out that Was that because you were just working holding everything? My husband was having an affair with everybody. Yeah. So that sounds similar. Very similar. Yes, yes, very similar.

Any woman he sees, he jumps. Yeah. Yeah, it was a similar situation. So for that, I have to protect my children even now. They went through that. We had so many financial difficulties and everything. Sometimes we don't have food to eat at home. Yeah.

So we all went through three of us. So now they could have had it. They were 10 and 12 at that time. Yeah. And I couldn't give so much. When your husband left, went to prison, didn't he? Went to prison. Yeah.

And he moved in with another woman. Yeah. And he left us alone. So I had to find the money. I have to do cleaning. I have to do so many things to bring food home. Yeah. So I couldn't give all the love which I had bottled in to my boys.

What are you most worried about for your children? Were you have two and you have one? My God, when I go, I leave this earth. Who is going to look after them? That's right. I wrote that to my friend today. Did you? I said the thing that really worries me the most

and that could make me cry is, how are they going to manage? How they are going to manage? Yes. Because through prayers, I protect them. Your mum will do the same. Yeah, protect you. Yeah, no, I agree on that. You don't realize that, but she'll be, oh, please look after my daughter, my deep power.

We both seem like we're doing okay. Yeah. I don't think you've got much to worry about. No, but the state of the world is not okay, is it? No. And I don't know how anyone can combat that. Because I struggle with our house, with no money, no fool. I don't want anybody else to go through that.

I don't wish it on anyone because I could have killed myself you know thinking about it but I had two boys so my mind was telling educate them educate them educate them educate them that's what you were like

she was just like education that's how you escaped as well isn't it education but that was in the day when education was really revered I think it is as much in this country now I think it's a bit sad it is sad even the children I take

calculating calculators home to do the sums. Those days, we don't have that. Yeah, memory. My mum's always doing that to my daughter. And her face, she's like, when she's like, what's 2 plus 6? That's it. She gets all stressed. She's like, you should know that.

And then she's like, but I've got a calculator. There's a. There you are. Speaking of maths geniuses, let's get Ramesh in. Yes, come on, Ramesh. I'm on, Ramesh. To you, he's the BAFTA winning presenter of the Misadventure. of Ramesh Ranganaathan.

It's hard to say without the water, isn't it? Sorry. It's my racism. Getting dry mouth having to say an ethnic name, Iya. You can't remember them. Can't you just be called Rommets? You've got so many syllables. You have to have a glass of water before you say this, that's thing.

To you, he's the BAFTA winning presenter of the Misadventures of Ramesh Ranganaathan, the host of the Ranganaation and The Weakest Link. He's the Sunday Times bestselling author of Straight Out of Crawley and as good as it gets, the host of For the Love of Hip Hop on BBC Radio 2 and one half of the brilliantly unfiltered Wolf and Al podcast, from stand-ups to sitcoms, from rap to reluctant travel, he's done it all. But to me, he's one of the few people who gave up his time when my friend from school was involved in a terrible road traffic accident, leaving him with serious brain damage. Ramesh helped me raise the funds to buy important.

equipment to help improve his quality of life. So even though he'll have us believe that he's cynical and miserable, he's actually really kind and a bit fluffy. It's Ramesh Ranganathan. Thank you. I needed a round of applause, but nobody. No, no, no, no, no, no. We all need validation.

Don't bother. You've already said it doesn't bother you. No, it doesn't. I hated that. So is human existence hard in general? Is that your first question? Yeah. I thought I could go straight in.

It's a general question. Yeah, I think, wow. Will they get harder than this? No. Okay. I sort of started to feel like it's as hard or as easy as you kind of want to make it. You know, I feel like there's lots of things that I used to get stressed about that now I just sort of think it's not really worth getting stressed about stuff like that.

What things did you used to get stressed? Well, I used to get, you know, when I first started doing comedy, I used to get worried about, like, every time I did something, you know, like every gig and every panel show, like, every TV appearance, I'd be like, I hope this goes well, because if this doesn't go well, then they might not book you again and then dinner. I feel like a lot of things, you know, a lot of the time we are just trying to,

you must, you know, I've done things that I regret. Yeah. And then you can really be harsh on yourself about it. Which we both are. Yeah, I mean, it's bad. The voices. The voice is about. Terrible.

So we're talking about your imposter syndrome, feeling like you're not worth anything, et cetera, general feelings. Who's that voice for you? I mean, it is my voice. I have got on, or I did have just my podcast in my head, and the podcast was called Rommishes a Piece of Shit. And that would be in all walks of life.

That would be not just work, it would be, you know, home with the children and stuff like that. Just everything I was doing, just tell, you know, I just have this voice in my head constantly telling me that I'm terrible. I did a gig last night and I did three songs and I, on the third one, I was like, I'm not very good. I'm constantly analyzing what I said. So for example, you know when I said to you, oh, I think existence is as hard or as easy. And then I think, well, there's those of people going through really horrible things and what a privileged thing to say. So let me just, can I just issue a disclaimer? I know shit's hard for people.

You've had your fair share of shit. We just heard your mum talk about it. Yeah. But my mum, it really broke my heart when my mum said that she didn't show us love because she was like preoccupied over things. It's just not true. You know, that might be her perception of it. But I feel like that's a mother's feeling in general.

But that's one of the things that I found the biggest dilemma is that regardless of what was going on with my mum and dad, I was never in any doubt that I was loved. I don't even think for a second I doubt that I was loved at home. So then that's what makes it more confusing when you have this hypercritical voice in your head because you think where is that coming from? Because it's not coming from my parents because if anything, my mum and dad like big me up too much.

You know, they were constantly like my mum was like, I remember when I did my first gig and my dad was like, why are you not doing Laver de Apollo? I go, because I'm shit. Like I've got three minutes of like really Route 1 stuff about being brown. I should not be alive of the... I wouldn't agree to be to do it.

So, like, you know, my parents, like, they big me up so much. And, um... So you don't know where that came for? No. Because I do have one parent that was always like, if I got a B, it would be like, why wasn't it in A? Oh, actually, they did do that. Well, that's maybe got an influence. They did do that, actually.

Yeah. So that might be a bit of it. Yeah, maybe, actually. Not to say that your parents, I mean, your mum particularly didn't do, like, amazing things. But we're all flawed and we're flawed. And we're flawed parents. We're sitting here and our kids will one day say, when you did X or Y, it really hurt me or whatever.

There are some mornings that I have spent with my children. And afterwards I can pinpoint 10 things that would probably lead to them needing therapy. Like just based on direct interactions with me, you know, like it's difficult. It's like, you know, I sort of think, you know, as listening to your mum there, your mum loves you so much and my mum loves me so much. And I think my mum did the best possible job that she could have done in the circumstances, but I'm riddled.

Do you medicate for mental illness? No. No, I don't, but I do meditate. So like I do like, I have to do things to stay on top of it. And sometimes like you forget because like you feel good. I mean you think, oh, I've conquered it. I've absolutely nailed this. I've completed mental health

What an absolute result This is what it's out beautifully And then all of a sudden you go I feel sad And then you realise it's because you haven't done all these things Do you know what I mean? Yeah yeah I know it is like that

You're just watching a film And you go I'm a piece of shit Hello darkness my old friend Promise Talk to me about being mad Talk to me about being absolutely unhinged I could tell you the maddest thing I've been involved in

Yeah, go on. It's not really mad. I think it's mad as in it shouldn't have happened. But my mate had a stagdit. We didn't have a stagdit, but he's getting married. It's already getting sketchy. And then he wanted to have like one of the nights at my dad's pub. And so he had this night, we had this like drink,

he's like drinking session at my dad's pub, as you do, so far so not. normal. But then one of the guys booked like a dancer, you know, a stripper to come and before, like to come and, and so she turned up, like, knocked on the door and did it all the thing under the pretense of like, I've just come in and then

suddenly like hits him up. And it isn't necessarily mad on the face of it, but I'm then in a room with like this stripper dancing for my mate and my dad's in the same room and like and like my dad

as my mum was intimated even in the short interview that she did. And so I looked across and like I could tell my dad was enjoying it. Like not in a physical way. I couldn't see that it was...

No, he wasn't standing to attention and feel like that. But like, but I could just see that he was into it and then I was like, should I be in this situation? Like this feels a bit mad. Do you know what I mean? To be in this situation with my dad.

But he found it pretty. chilled. But of course he did because he's like my dad. My dad came into the underwear shop that I worked at once and bought underwear for a lady off me. I was like do you know how inappropriate is it? I guess my dad was like my hero

and I would say that my brother's personality is a lot like my mum's. Those two are like similar and I'm very similar to how my dad was. You know I would describe my dad and myself as like in relationships and just generally expect very little but deliver very little as well. That's what I think we are like. But I do think

relationships take work. Do you know what I mean? Because I think you have to make the effort to like connect and like when you say how is your day actually be into the answer and you know like I just think these things take effort. And sometimes I feel like you know, doing the jobs that we do you are on all the time. Right. Even like if somebody comes up to you and says, I really love your stuff. Can have a photo? You're in performance mode then, right? You're

because you're with a fan. Do you do all there? photos. I don't do like... Would you pick and choose? If somebody comes up to me and asks me for a photo, I'll always take it. But I don't do meeting groups or anything like that. I feel like all men take them and women don't always. Oh really?

What, do you say no sometimes? Like when? If I'm with my kids, I won't do it. Yeah. And if I've got no makeup or I won't do it. I think that's why. I tell you when I won't do it when I'm at the water slides at centre park. The best.

Well, somebody comes to me and says, can I have a photo? I said, mate. No. Wee. I've got my top off. I've got to say, can I just, while we're talking about centen parts, by the way, you know, and I'm fully aware that I brought up and we're not sponsored by it. I'd love centreparts to be on the doorbell.

Yeah, if you're interested, yeah, but I'm not sponsored by centreparts. But being of a certain profile and going down the rapids, it's not the one man. Everyone's like, well, you're touching people. We're not just... I've not been on it. Well, you just get thrown around this, like, curvy thing. I've had, like, my legs wrapped around. Like, you just crash into people.

I mean, I just sort of think... And you're like, you ever guess who wrapped his legs around me today? Yeah, I got mounted by Rommish Ranganathan at Elverden. Do you know what I mean? Me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's horrible. Scandal.

Just going, sorry, sorry. Sorry. Oh, good. Was that your tit? Sorry. Like, it's bad, man. I don't feel... I said to Lisa, I don't want to go on that.

again. Anyway, I've digressed. But the point is, I do think relationships are work, and I think, like, you know, to be honestly, there have been periods where I remember one morning I had just been, I'd like just be just bit naked and I came downstairs and I think I was just making guttural noises

just sort of like, and we were going, I think we're going out, I can't remember why we're going on, it doesn't matter. And we're heading out and we bumped into someone that recognised me and then they said, can I get a photo? And I said, yeah, and then they turned to leash and they went, it must be amazing with him. It just must be so funny.

Like, you just... Well, she looked at me as if to say, I'm about to sell you out and tell this person what it's really like. But she didn't. She just went, yeah, it's great. It's a laugh a minute. Bless her.

And I wake up every morning and I think, thank God I'm Lisa. I can't believe I get to be with Ramesh. Another day in paradise. It's like centreparts. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you think that your mental health start,

is triggered by your dad's leaving, philandering, then going to jail? Do I think it's triggered by that? Do you think that was the big moment for you that caused most of your mental health issues? May, probably. Biggest trauma. Yeah.

I mean, I don't, it's so tricky that because I always sort of try and caveat this by saying those things that happen to us aren't the worst thing that's ever happened to anybody. No. But they're the worst things that may have happened to you. Yeah. But they did happen in quite a quick succession.

And so you go from like a period of feeling like quite stable to everything kind of turning upside down. And what age were you? When I've got vivid memories of like specific moments of it. Like I remember once, the house had got repossessed, we've moved into this property temporarily. We'd not see my dad for a little bit. And I said, I'm going to get a taxi somewhere.

And then she got a taxi. She discovered that my dad was seeing this woman. She's gone to her house and confronted her on the doorstep and it kicked off, like, properly, like, Jeremy Carl-style, like, down the road. And then there's all sorts of key bits. Like, my dad, like, got into severe debt. I've got a memory of, like, hiding under the table because, like, somebody that my dad owed money to came around.

So, my and my brother were, like, hid under a table and this guy's banging on the door, going, I'm going to kill you. Where? Like, you know, we're just, like, all these vivid, like, things flash into my head. And it's funny. to be honest with you, genuinely, I hadn't thought that before, I hadn't thought about this being the trigger before you said that. But then as you asked a question, I'm thinking,

do I have any recollections of mental health things before that? And not really. You know, I was a really fat kid and that bothered me quite a lot. And, you know, being fat with a lazy eye doesn't make you a legend at school. So that was like, I had like tricky things with that. But I had a head brace if it's any consolation that came out of my head. Yeah, that's bad. So that's very like South Parkish, isn't it?

Yeah, it is bad. Hello, hello much. Yeah. Everyone would say. Just, oh, God. Look at me now. You just put it on. Every now and again, you should put it on just to bring yourself back down.

You know, just to feel grounded, do you know what I mean? Do you know what I mean? Just keep the head brace. Every now and again, every down again it goes to my head. So I just put the head brace on and look at the mirror for a bit. I used to go, morning Hannibal. My mum. Your mum did?

Your mum did? Yeah. That's what my mum used to go. You did? My mum used to like, I had serious, like, it was massive. And the mum would go, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I'm going to walk into the room. They're bullies.

We're just sitting here so amazing they are. You're just like, we're just the sadness of the mental health issues. You're a pair of horrible cows. What do you think you're most proud of? about this child? Determination. Philema's got so much determination. His generosity, like helping mum

and everybody else around him. That's lovely. It's such a blessing for me. You love off the way, is it? I don't know, I just want him to be happy and to be caring, you know. Yeah, it's a kind like they were. I want to have a go to these people on Instagram

or insulting my son. When my book, when my book, When my book came out, which was also a bestseller for nine weeks, my mum said, it's lucky for you that everyone's thick. That's why it's done well. She's laughing because it's true. I do think you need to. Not everyone's thick because I don't believe that.

My mum just, yeah, anyway. So the standards have dropped solo in literature that your book was able to, yeah. Thanks. You know, mental health. I just feel really passionate. It needs to be destigmatised. We should be able to talk about it freely like you do about your physical health. Yeah.

I remember when I was younger and I felt like I needed to go and talk to somebody. I remember being nervous to tell mum about it because like moms of a certain age and also Sri Lankan. Yeah. You know, what I don't want is to go, oh my God, my son is mental. My son's, they're going to put you in a street, Jagger, I'm never going to see it. You know, saying to your mum, I need therapy or I'm going to go see somebody, your mum's immediately going to go, if my son's said, to me, I'm going to go see somebody, immediately, selfishly, narcissistically.

You think, you go, what have I? What's he accusing me of? Yeah, what have I done? Yeah. What have I done? I thought I was like, absolutely smashed me. Yeah, you got a PlayStation. Like, what's going on?

Do you know what I mean? Like, you got everything, man. What are you talking about? Do you tell your kids that you go to therapy? Like, or when you have, do you go, because I do sometimes, I'll go, I'm going to therapy. I'm not going to the moment. But when I was, I'd go, I'd go like, oh, I'm going therapy today. And they'd say, what's that?

And I said, well, it's the same as my exercise, but it's for my brain. Yeah, my kids do know about it. The thing that I wish I'd done a bit better was tell them that I was going to talk openly about having suicidal thoughts before I did it. Because like, your kids don't want to hear that about their dad. No, and what age are they? 15, 13 and 10. So I'm not in that yet. Yeah.

My kids don't watch my stuff. No. Well, the truth is my kids don't either. I mean, they've got very little interest. But they're friends, mate. Yeah, they're friends, might. But also, you know, it's that thing of like, you know, somebody will go to my kids, do you watch your dad on TV? And then they go, I see him on the sofa.

And at no point do I go, I want to see more of what that guy does. Let me tell you, that guy is not funny. He's not at all funny. He's just like deeply embarrassing, horrible, disgusting, lazy human being. But yeah, their mates do watch stuff. But so it was initial, like, one of my kids was like, Dad, like, do you feel like, you know, like... Do you feel like that now? Yeah.

And I go, well, just, you know, be nice to me, mate. Because it'll be your fault. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now call for therapy. I'll even know, no, but I think actually it's good for them to, it's actually good for them to, in a way for them to hear me talk about it. But do you know anybody who has done that? Done what? Committed suicide.

Yeah. a really good friend of mine. I talked with him and he was a really good friend and when I started doing comedy he would drive me to all the gigs. He was so excited that I'd started doing stand-up and so he would drive me to all the gigs

and then he had something bad happened at work where he ended up losing his job and he went into a really dark place and all of his friends and we all rallied around him and we gave him a lot of support and this is the bit that I found sort of frightening is that

he then felt like he'd come out the other side and he was on top of the world and he was talking about future plans and stuff and two weeks before it happened I was due to go and do misadventures it was like we were going to do the Ethiopia episode and I went for dinner with him a couple of weeks beforehand and obviously like as I'm saying this to you

it's highly possible that I am adding this this colour into it you know looking back on it and it might not have felt like that at the time but he was talking about what he was going to do and I remember going home from dinner and it was really nice to hang out with him and I said to Lisa my wife I said I think he, like she knows him as well

I said I think he's in like a, I think he feels like he's in a better place but like every now and again it feels like maybe he doesn't, you know I just, there was something was a bit off but I don't think, but he was talking so positively so I was like okay and then and then I went to Ethiopia and

we went to do some camping and so I was off grid like couldn't be can get, nobody can get in touch me for a few days. And then when I came back, we moved into an area we had signal and my phone just started blowing up. Like, just all these text messages started pinging through to my phone. And I clicked on it. It was like, can't believe what happened to him, can't believe what happened to him.

And I was like, what is going on? And I just, just, like, genuinely, like, felt like hundreds of messages coming through to my phone. And then I looked into it and, like, phoned one of his other friends. And I found out what happened. And because, like, he'd been talking so positively, I didn't believe that he'd taken his own life. I just couldn't believe it because he was, he wasn't just,

he just seemed like, you know, he's with a partner. He was talking about this new venture he was doing like, he was just, like, he was just like on it, you know, like he was really like it felt like he was looking forward and said that's what I found frightening because he wasn't showing, he didn't look, do you know what I mean? He didn't look depressed. Like he, you know, and that's what.

Yeah. Shocking. Yeah. And so that's what frightened me a little bit because I thought, oh, that is a demonstration of how effective, how effectively somebody can mask that they're having those thoughts. Yeah. And so obviously, like, to be honestly, selfishly, you start looking at what you could have done differently and you start thinking about could I've supported him more effectively and like, you know, what could I've done. And then then I thought, I want to do something. I can't do anything for him. It's too late to do anything for him.

And that's why his, his, him taking his life is the whole reason I've got so heavily involved in mental health charities and stuff like because I just thought, how do I, how am I going to sort of, how do I make amends with this? I can't make amends with him, but I can do try and do something for other people and that's kind of how it went into it. But yeah, it's, it's, it's horrible, man. Yeah, it's an obvious thing to say, but it's. No, it is. And also, I think that what's shocking about it is anybody who's known anybody who's done it, it's like you just wouldn't know. No.

So the fact that you're, I think it's really good and healthy and helpful as well that people can come on, like you can come on this podcast and we can say, and you can say, I've had those thoughts. Yeah. It's good for you to be able to articulate that,

but it's also really good for other people to say, oh, I'm not alone in this. And it's not something to feel alienated about. No. But there is help out there. And we will put on this. episode for sure. Yeah.

Like some charities that you're connected with and stuff. Are there times that doing something bad is good? So I feel quite embarrassed about this, to be honest with it. And I don't condone that. I'm saying this down the barrel of the camera. I don't condone what I did. I distance myself from my actions. But when I was at uni, I do feel like, I was trying to think about, when I think

racism is worse now or was it worse then? But anyway, the point is. I do remember, I think when you're younger, people find you more frightening for your ethnic monor. My experience is like there is something that certain people find scary. Youth plus ethnicity is some people really kick up like kick against. I think as I've got older, you know, I think people go, well, they've been in, he's been here for a while. I think it'll be all right. He's not going to get far.

He's learned the way. He's learned the ways. He's got to get, just got up the stairs. He struggles. But I remember we went to like I was with a few friends And all of my friends were All of my friends

It was like a diverse group of people But we went we were out Just like wondering about We wanted to have a couple of beers So we went into this pub And we didn't realise this at the time But it was like a white pub Do you know

Like we hadn't clocked it We just walked in But you wouldn't know Because you're not allowed to put a sign on the door Saying this isn't white But later on I realised There are signs Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. They don't have an explicit sign, but there's... You didn't see. They're signals. The fact that everyone in there was why it might have been... But like... So it was a bit like... It was a bit like an old Western

where everyone looks to the door as you walk in. Do you know what I mean? And so we... But yeah. But we didn't clock it. We're still like... We're just coming in and like... Having a nice time.

What I realise now has happened is that our presence made everyone feel very uncomfortable. And the landlord didn't want us to be there. So, I think it was all regulars in the pub. I was trying to figure out how they, what happened. But essentially what happened was, is somebody pretended or made out that a friend of mine had knocked his pint or bashed into him or whatever. And I'd seen everything.

It hadn't happened like that. And then all of these people started kicking off with us. And the landlord said, all of you need to leave. And it was just quite a blatant example of they just wanted the brown people at the pub. And it was horrible. It's like the first time I'd experienced it a lot. But like, it was just, it felt so. unjust. Do you mean? We were really in a good mood up until that point and we were like just

having a nice time and having, you know, one of those things where do you know you have that thing where you're out with your friends and then you've had a couple of drinks and then everybody starts telling each other how much they love them. Yeah. Do you know what? I think you're great and I don't think people recognise why it's you're so special like all that kind of shit chat. But so we were in that one of those kind of moods. It wasn't even like we were anyway. No aginess. Zero agi. Yeah. Negative aggie. I would have hug people. randomly. You know, that's the kind of mood I was in.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want some of them out too, you know. Oh, God. But no, we were really good. Anyway, we were really upset and angry. And so later on that night, we went to the pub after it's closed and we broke the windows.

But like, so. It's so bad, isn't it? No, it is bad, but it's an example of when bad can be good because how did you feel afterwards? Yeah, obviously you get a bit of a buzz after it. But if you're trying to combat racism, I want to, I want to look at it from the landlord's point of view, I kicked some Asian lads out. I was right about them.

I kicked some Asian lads out. They came back and brick the windows. You know what? I've changed my mind. I think they might be all right. I might start encouraging more of those ethnic groups to come into the pub. Like it wasn't, it's not smart. It's not smart.

It's not a smart move. But it might, it felt good at this. time, yeah. Are you worried about demonisation of ethnic minorities today? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I... Do you think it's worse? It's difficult to know if it's truly worse because the truth is we know what everybody thinks in a way that we didn't used to, right? So it's possible that it isn't worse, but we just hear about it more. It feels worse. It feels worse, yeah. But what I can tell you is

that I have experienced on social media the level of racism I've experienced in social media has increased. Now, whether that is because my profile's increased, I don't know, but, you know, I remember, like, I remember I did a post about, there was an England football shirt

that they decided to change the England flag on it, and it caught a lot of fuss. And then I just did, like, a jokey video going, I hope they debate it as long as possible because I don't want to fork out and buy the shirt. It was just like a stupid little thing. And then loads of people just go, well, of course you feel like that.

You're not English. And like, you know, like, I started to get like, like, you know, you come over here and then you start, of course you don't give a shit about the England flag and all that. And I felt like it was so widespread. It felt like that everybody felt. And, you know, like it was such a big proportion of the comments. And then I thought,

and then I thought, I don't think that would have happened. I don't think people would have felt as comfortable to say those things. in years gone by. To that level, you look online in this, it's just general sort of bubbling of like sentiment against immigrants are being scapegoated

for all of the ills in our society. You know, I've had this issue with my youngest son getting into secondary school recently and I've been talking about how I think the system doesn't, isn't working for all people. And then everyone goes,

what do you expect? You wanted this. and all these immigrants now have taken all the school places. And you just go, that's not what's happened. Like, you know, that isn't what's happened. But they're scapegoated. But I think that's because it's an easy out, you know, like to demonise them is an easy thing to do.

Well, it means that it's an easy distraction. It's a distraction. It is a distraction. And I think that is, I just think, it's just really horrible. I think that we're talking about a simple, sometimes I think, we're talking about a simple insurmountable difference in opinion of what things should look like because often you hear like people say London isn't London anymore you go here and there's like this restaurant or there's this shop and that shop isn't it disgusting whereas I see that and I think isn't it great

like this is so wicked I love it I can go to any country on my free night that's what I always say I've got holiday yeah I'm so I'm so proud of I feel so I actually makes me happy how diverse Me too. Some parts of like the UK, I love it. I think it's great. But other people think that that's a sign of Englishness or Britishness being eroded. And how do you get over that? I don't know how you do get over that.

And what I can tell you, the answer is not bricking in their windows. From experience. Yeah, that's what I could tell you. It didn't move that guy politically on the need, you know. So just to end, what makes you glad, Ramesh? what makes me genuinely glad is sitting on a film night with Lisa and the kids

and Lisa thinks that I say this because I've said this before to her she thinks I say this to be like to be an ass kisser yeah to be cute and it doesn't work we still watch another episode I'm asleep she's gone to bed

but but genuinely like Lisa will go to me because our jobs there's no get around it they're really exciting and so Lisa will see me doing all these things that I really enjoy. And she thinks that I'm like off like

buzzing my tits off and then I come back and I'm going bloody hell, I've got to go home. But the truth is, yeah, the truth is my favourite thing to do in my life is to have a film night with Lisa and the kids. In a track suit. In a track suit, yeah. Just chilling out.

And that is, to be honest with you, that's like my happy place. I do that every Friday. It's sacred in this house. We have film night every Friday, me and the kids. And if anything comes in the way of it, we're all distraught. Yeah, I know. I mean, do I think my oldest son's distraught?

No. He's 15? Yeah, let's be honest, it started to become a milstay around his net, this film thing. But, like, you know, I love it. Like, when I've been to therapy and they've gone, can you put yourself in the place where you're at your happiest? It's always that. That's like my visual, do you know what I mean?

So, yeah, that does make me glad. I'm so happy. Thank you for coming on the show. It's been insightful and amazing. Can I ask for like, how do you think it's gone? What is? Yeah. What do you think of the tone and the chat and like the answers and stuff?

I feel really good and I feel really relieved and sort of reassured. And I hope the listeners will that it's okay to be human. Yeah. And that's sort of the idea. Yeah. That's a really good idea for a podcast. I also just think you're quite funny at times as well. At times.

Thank you for that qualifier. Thank you for that qualifier. That's something I think about. 3 a.m. when I wake up on the sofa. Cheers mate. Thanks so much. Yeah, thank you. Honestly, it was so insightful and everything and your mum's going to stay, I think. That's all right. Just hang out a bit. I love your mum.

Yeah, but you're not filming any more stuff at it, right? No, don't worry. She's not going to take your job. No, I don't mean, I just mean don't like start doing like an ex-poise of like... No, but I was going to give us some interior design advice and stuff. Yeah, please. Anyway, bye. If you could pay for it, I mean. Well, wasn't that great?

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