Mad, Sad and Bad with Paloma Faith - Ruby Wax: I Wish I'd Had More Boyfriends

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

People have always likened me to Ruby Wax - I suppose because she says it like it is and isn’t afraid to speak her mind. For those exact reasons I couldn’t wait to have her over, and let her loose in my house…Ruby is a world-class interviewer, from smashing up a hotel room with Jim Carey, being attacked with a banana by OJ Simpson, to getting kicked off Donald Trump’s private jet - she’s done it all! She’s also spoken openly about her depression, earning an OBE for her services to mental health. We spoke about how she always thinks the worst of people and the sadness of unrequited love.I loved having Ruby over but I would quite like my hat back!!#RUBYWAX #PALOMAFAITH #MADSADBAD—Find us on: Instagram / TikTok / YouTube—Credits:Producer: Jemima RathboneAssistant Producer: Magda Cassidy & Ceyda UzunVideo: Jake Ji & Lizzie McCarthySound: Shane O'BryneMix: Shane O'BryneOriginal music: BUTCH PIXYSocial Media: Laura CoughlanExec Producer for JamPot: Jemima RathboneExec Producers for Idle Industries: Dave Granger & Will Macdonald Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Paloma Faith and this is my show. Each week I welcome someone fantastic into my home to talk about what makes them mad, sad and bad. Roll recording. Door because I'm busy and I only have a few. I'm here. Hi, hello. I don't want to do the interview now.

I want to just see her close if I could do that. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. I guess... Look, the door doesn't over. because I've sort of jammed too much stuff behind. Oh my God, look at how much stuff you've got.

Why red shoes? Well, it's, everything's color-coded. So the whole wardrobe is rainbow, so it's quite a lot of red because that's my color of choice. Right. But, um... Oh my God, but show me the worst thing you've got. Some of these look really trashy.

I am quite trashy. No, but, you know, in a... Liz? Do you want to try it? No, that's really, I would look like a garbage bag. It's really heavy. really bad. And look at the label showing through. It's horrible. It's really horrible. What do you think is nice?

I wouldn't mind these shoes if you'd like to give them to me. At what size he is? 38. That's the same as me. No, let me try them on. And she won't give it to me. But you know, why not ask? Are they expensive? Yes. If I just leave with them. No, I've got a pair here. They're on my feet. There's no reason to be up here unless I get something.

So this is your makeup. This is your makeup. Oh, you get her? A little bit. Do you like her? I like Charlie Tilbury. Will she give us some free stuff? No, she's giving me some free stuff.

And I want to thank her. She's never given me anything free. Bags of it for me. Nothing for me. Well, she doesn't like you. You don't have to look far for that answer. But there's the pink department. Yeah, and I'll pass you some things.

Pass me some clothes, yeah. The word, too many clothes, that doesn't end. your cerebell? But the problem is I never have anything to wear. I don't either. It doesn't matter how many clothes I have. I've got nothing to wear and I can't come. Let me just get something from up here.

Hold on it. Look what I look like. Something that I like or just something I'll laugh at. Oh, this is good. Oh, that is very good. That is great, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, that's good.

That is bad. That is good. I love that on you. I do too. I think this is me. Is that your freak thing? I love the pubic hair effect. Is this show about you or about me?

Oh, it's all, everything's about me, Rubin. It's what I'm just using it as a sounding board. I'm just here to go, yeah, that's so true. But I spend so much time alone. I need people to come and talk to me. Oh, so you had a little podcast. It's so interesting. Such a lonely person type thing.

You know what I bet? When we go downstairs, nothing's plugged into anything. It's just loneliness. We'll have nothing to say. These people are just hired. Oh yeah, they don't like me either. No, there's no film in the camera, nothing. It's the trim and the show.

I can smell your desperation. What else have you got that I'd like? I'd take this. Which one? Which one? This one. You can have that. No.

Yeah. Let's see it on. Oh, luckily enough, this paid off. I always need a few freebies before I talk to anybody. Otherwise, it's not worth it. Because you're not paid. Not paid at all. Do you want to try the pants?

I came all the way here with no money. These will fit you, weren't they? That's the pants. I can't believe this. I'm going to be so funny on your show. Oh, my God. You better give me some stories you've not told anybody. I will, I promise.

Look, that is great for you. No, this is, should I try them on? Yeah. Thank you, and I didn't even have to ask. Do you want to go to my bedroom and try the moon and try them on? I will try the one and then I'll come out. I'm going to try it on. Oh, is this your room?

This is exotic. Paloma. I have to know. What? You sleep with people here? Yeah, but sorry, I know you're prudish, aren't you? No, but do you have you slept with me? Yeah, not recently.

The sheets have been changed since. Because, you know, when there's sperm on that? There's no sperm in there. It's been a few nights. I'm a single mother. I know, but you don't, you could still get that sperm anywhere. Yeah, I guess. Okay, sure, I'm ready.

Okay. But that was joyful. It was brilliant, and I'm glad that you've raided my wardrobe. Well, I saw what I. Nothing left. No, you still have enough garbage bags. I'll never have anything to wear really big. But I'm sorry, I've just seen 18,000 dresses made of polyester.

If you ever smoked a cigarette, this place would explode. The living room's there. To you, she's a comedian, writer, mental health advocate and interviewer extraordinaire. She's captured some of the most candid and insightful interviews with the likes of Madonna and Carrie Fisher. She smashed up a hotel room with Jim Carrey, been attacked with a banana by O.J. Simpson, I hope it was in jest, and got kicked off Donald Trump's private jet. What a claim to fame. She is equally open and honest about her own experiences and mental health,

writing numerous books on the topic. Most recently releasing, I'm not as well as I thought I was, and receiving an OBE for her services to mental health. So, no pressure here then. a world-renowned interviewer who's an expert on all of these topics that my podcast is about. But to me, she's a woman I spent my entire career being compared to every time someone felt uncomfortable around me. You know, you remind me of Ruby Wax.

And if it's because we're both so traumatised as human beings that we blur every thought we've ever had out without any filter, then I do take that as a compliment. It's the amazing Ruby Wax. Oh my God, what an intro. I can't believe she's real. And also... You? No.

I mean, because the reason I don't do interviews is I got fired. So they weren't doing that well. Oh, come on. No, I did. I've been fired so many times. How many? Starting as a waitress, I was fired because I bled in somebody's pancake. Yeah.

That wasn't fair. I got fired from Harvey Nichols for telling a customer that I could make them the shirt they were about to buy for eight. hundred pounds from Dolkine Gabana for 25 pounds. Were you looking from cash? Yeah, I was just trying to do a side hustle. Oh, sad. I also got fired from travel in Houston as well for folding the sheets in the wrong direction.

It was meant to be clockwise, not anti-clockwise. I don't even understand that. You know when you fold the sheets in a hotel? You were a cleaning lady? Yeah, housekeeping at travel lodge. Oh, no. That's as bad. I feel I was slightly waste.

I'm never getting travel odds now. That's as low as it gets. I knew my career was over when I was asked to cut the ribbon at Costa in Terminal 3. Yes. To open it. That's when you know. You were the big opening. I was the opening.

Nobody arrived. There was a big bow saying Costa's coming. Did you manage to come back from that? Never came back. Yeah. No, that was it. I get it. It was a full plunge.

We've met before. Can you tell the story about when we first met? We did a playground to raise money. It was a Russian event, and we were paid like horrors to entertain them. And it was to raise money to get playgrounds in Russia. So I read a list from a menu of all the places they had playgrounds. So I went on really too long because I hated the audience. Stink.

And there was a fire. there was a fire to start with. This was chaos. And then you and I shared a dressing room and now we both had diarrhea. Yeah, we both had the shits. And I said to you immediately, I've got the shits and you went,

so do I. And we bonded on that. I feel like mine was more watery than yours. Well, that's why you took longer to come out. So I introduced Philomen. There was a really long gap. And I said, because I hated this audience. I said, you have to wait a few minutes

because she has diarrhea. And then she came. And then I came being fabulous. Good evening. The mystique is all intact. I was the star of the show. I've gone on stage with the shit so many times thinking that I might shit myself on stage.

Why do you have the shits a lot? I think that it's my, you know, like, it must be people call it IBS, don't they? Oh, usually it's just people of us. certain faith have that. Oh, irritable bowel syndrome. I've just, I know this is a, no, no, no, but I've just had a periscope up my ass only three days ago. And had we known that we were going to start, I have photos of it. I've got photos of my colon. Show me. I've got them on a CD-ROM. And when he gave them to me, he said, these are the greatest selfies you'll ever take. The doctor had a sense of

Humor. So do you want to be liked? Do I want to be liked? Where can't you tell by our opening? It's called I Give a Shit. That's the name of this podcast. Give a shit. Have you got any tips for a good interview? Because I heard that I'm meant to flirt with you. That was your originally. Oh yeah. I used to flirt with the kind of people. But in my way. But how do I do that? Well, you're doing it. You know, no, it's not touchy. It's you make me, if you make the person laugh, they'll stay there forever. Giggling. Is that why your marriage has lasted so long? My marriage lasted long because we never see each other. Oh, that's perfect.

That's the solution. Yeah. Because if I saw him, I wouldn't, you know, what was he doing there? It would get boring and tired. It's already boring and tired. But we have a big... Do you see a lot of each other now? No, don't.

Because I'm quite like you. I think I'm really, really, really good at first impressions, but then I burn out. Yeah. And then you just repeat. So I feel like with your husband, maybe like, he's burnt out. You've, but no, you can't, it can't last this long. Nothing, it's not natural. We weren't born to be, with one person.

We're meant to die at 40, aren't we? We're meant to die at 40. So we have two lifetimes now? Five in my case. Do you wish you'd had more marriages? Yeah, I wish I had more boyfriends. But I was scared of sex when I was a little girl because of early incidents. Oh, yeah.

And so I didn't really have a boyfriend. How old were you when you had your first boyfriend? 50. Is that your husband? No. You lost your virginity at 50. No, a little before, but I didn't like it at all. Yeah.

I didn't like it at all. I laid there stiff. I didn't know you were supposed to move because my parents never told me anything. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's their fault. Maybe they never moved either. They never moved either.

They had one because the sperm was lying on the pillow. Then that's me. I actually got pregnant once from someone coming on my boobs. No. Yeah. Did it work its way down there? I don't know how it happened. But it was the immaculate conception.

It was all over me here. Right. But how did it happen? Not one of my existing children. Well, there may be better swimmers than we thought. That's a miracle. So this podcast is about being mad, bad and sad. And I know that you're very vocal about being mad.

Yeah. And I would like to know. I've got an OBE for. Yeah, you've got the award for the maddest mad in the royal kingdom of the UK. When I go to America and say I've got an OBE, they think it's a yeast infection. We're just staying in the lower regions, aren't we? We should move up. We should move on up.

It's just the whole show. Yeah, everything's about gynecology and anise. So can you tell the difference between mad, be insane Ruby. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're very distinct and nobody should mistake real mental illness with just being mad and bad and sad.

Yeah. Because it's not. It's when you're dead. It's an illness. It's an illness and it doesn't feel like anything else. You know, you know you have it. It's like you know when you've got COVID. You know, there's no doubt.

So when you have real depression, you can't move anymore. Your arms don't function. And you can't. Yeah. can hardly speak. And the word and there's a mystery to you. Language goes away. And so there's no doubt you're really ill. So then when the mind comes back again, you're really aware that it's returning, but you think it'll never come back. You think it's like the sun has been eclipsed and you'll never going to see it. But then maybe months later through many means of medication

and therapy. And I got this a thing on my head, which was my show was about it. And in my book. And it uses magnets on your head. And it's to recalibrate the neurons to get them kickstarted again. Well, they're in bed implanted. No, no. It's like you wear this hat that's from the 50s, you know, one of those hair dryer hats. And it goes, it bangs on you. It sends a pulse.

Because it used to be ECT, which was electric shock. Yeah. Where, you know, you couldn't remember your last name or what planet you came from. They were like, you're healed, but you'll never speak again. Yeah. Well, you won't remember. And that's how you're healed. You can't, who was I before?

Yeah. No, but some people like it, but they walk out, their heads are still smoking. Oh, everyone's got trauma, haven't they? Yeah, everybody. It's the new black. No, that was my show in my book, if she did EMDR on me, she went further and further and further, and she found out I was locked in my house. I knew there was something weird.

Oh, you were locked in your house, in your trauma? In my childhood. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I keep going on these journeys, which I did. in the book and the show where I went to a 30-day silent retreat. How do you do that? Because everybody else is doing it.

So it's easier if you're a sheep. It's easier if you're a sheep, yeah. I just feel scared of my mind if I was doing that. Yeah. And I think that's really brave of you to do that. Well, your mind does, you know, give you hell. Your mind is so abusive. Can you still take your medication while you're doing it?

Yeah, yeah, you can. But your mind is nuts. And then eventually your mind gets tired. and it lays down like a kind of dog that you've just, you know, that's just been wild. And when it's lying down, then you start to think, I'm adorable. And you notice colors. And you think, I love being inside of me. And you notice like spiders making spider webs.

And some of them are perfect and other ones have dyslexia. You know, they're all over the place. And everything catches your attention. It's not a distraction. You're living distraction-free. So food tastes delicious. And I ran into the kitchen at one point and said, I broke my silence after three weeks.

I said, how did you make this egg? And they said, with an egg. It was just boiled. It was just so delicious. And I had a digestive that I saved for like two weeks. I'd eat little bites, but it was too ecstatic. And then I have to put it away. Because you're not talking to anybody.

Does that give you a sense of like how wonderful things are? How wonderful things could be if you weren't so distracted. Yeah. Have I taught you something? You have. That's what I'm trying to find back. That's why I'm going on all these journeys because you want to go, like when I saw that whale, you know, when I was swimming with whales,

and you see it's under you and it's coming up. You go like that. Or it's hanging upside down in the water and you hear, wait, I do it really well. Wow, it's uncanny. She is a whale. Can you hear me? Oh, no, the bell. It's not a surprise gas.

They don't like that. Is that your front door bell? Oh, I made that echo. There's a whale at the door. Because I did the mating call. They're knocking down the house. There's a horny whale just bringing the bell. How did you, like, address your trauma when there was all that amazing distraction there, those characters?

Well, I did all that. I went to Afghanistan to get refugees out. I did everything to find meaning, you know, to find what was beyond just this person who's not that interesting, except to you. But then I ended up in a mental ward. So that's a show. So you go back and forth between this creature who's running all the time, running, running. And then I find out I was locked in my house. You know, when you're a kid, you think everything is normal. And then you find out later, no, nobody else was locked in. Yeah, and you do all this therapy and you realize, oh, that wasn't. Like, I've said it to a few people before where they've burst into tears and I said, all you have to say to someone is like, you know, that's not normal and then they're just, because it's like, just real.

You just do it despite them. Yeah, just like realization. Yeah, most people don't do it with don't do it with donkeys. Yeah. They're so shocked. Yeah, it's true. What was abnormal in your background? Oh, so much.

Well, give me one. Throw me the card. Well, like... Oh, go on. Nobody's listening. Of course they are. Well, there was quite a lot of stuff. So quite abusive dad.

Right. That's why I don't drink and stuff because I'm terrified that the addict gene is hereditary. So, like, you've got kids, and I've heard you say as well, that you have managed to make sure that your children don't have the hereditary gene of depression. Like, how did you have?

You can't stop it. You can't, if they have it, they have it. They're just lucky. Well, it's rolling of the dice. Yeah. I mean, what my son, I looked in his eyes at one point when he was like 20-something, and he had real, they were dead. And all I go around is saying, look, you know, if you got a worker at your work,

and if you got, if you're a teacher and you see it, they look like a shark. You know, I don't know if you ever, I went swimming with sharks and it's deadly. So if you notice that, get him to a doctor. So Max had that look. And it took me really long in the way. then I realized, oh, this is what it is. But if you get them on medication right away, before they have three episodes, you can ward off the depression.

And then never got it. You never had it again. That's amazing. Yeah, but if three episodes go by, you're pretty much cursed. Yeah. Do you think that... Sorry to be the deliver of badness. So right. Do you think numbness is scarier than feeling like sadness or joy?

Oh, that's such a great... Because I'm numb. You know, whenever I do scary things, people go, oh, how do you feel about it? And I am an example of numbness because I'm on Lamatrogen, really big doses. And so I don't feel anything. Does that scare you? Well, I don't cry. You could never make me cry.

But also, I don't like throw my head back screaming with, well, if it's really funny, then it cuts through. Or if somebody died that I knew, then it would cut through. But most of the time, you know, I'm on a numb. The even keel. Yeah. Do you not feel scared of that? I don't like it. Well, the alternatives were?

It's worse. Yeah. So I said, okay, make me numb. And my right hand shanks from the Lamatrigine. Because you've been on it, how long? 35 years. Wow. You're definitely a believer.

Yeah. I got no choice. I committed 30 first longer than any relationship I've ever had. I just mentioned Lamatrogen. You're going to get a sponsor. And I'm going to ask you for a cut. Do you think you gravitate? towards people who are in touch with their craziness?

I like them when they're crazy and they admit they're crazy that I'm with my people. So when I do a show, the second half is the audience talking. And so, you know, when they raise their little heads and they're brave enough to say, I've got this, that's my, I'm so proud. And it's such a honor for somebody to tell you, you know, to let you in on it.

Yeah. Because it's such a deep, dark secret. And we should just proudly wear, you know, what your pathology is on your shirt. I feel like, don't you think everyone's got a little bit of madness anyway? Well, let's not call it madness. Okay. Because, you know what I mean?

What should we call it? Well, mental illness. Okay. I think we can call it madness. Because mad's kind of friendly and nice, you think? Oh, no. Or do you think mental illness is friendly and nice? I think mental illness is okay.

Okay. But we can say mad. I think if you're Jewish, you can make Jewish. I use the word quite flippantly, though. Yeah. You're mad. you know, maybe not in America. But they don't use it in a mental war.

No, no, no, no. I visited quite a few. Yeah, I've lived in quite a few. Everybody was mad. We're having lunch. There was a period of my life where the people who worked in one particular mental ward couldn't understand why I'd been visiting so long. And they were like, oh, why do you keep coming?

It's been six months. And I was like, oh, it's all different people. I just happened to know all of these people in the same war. Oh, that's funny. And they were like, what are the chances? I said, oh, this is my local area. But when I first did my show, I did it in a mental ward, a mental illness. This was a long time ago.

And they set up a tent outside and they had inmates there and my friends. So you heard kind of screams. And then I was doing the comedy, but, you know, people weren't even facing my direction. And they were talking to Napoleon. You know, really, they're serious. Yeah. I ate my pet. It's way out there.

Yeah. Yeah. But I love it. I love the stories. Did you know what the pet tasted like? I didn't ask. You know, you're so enthralled. I know. That's why you're coming up and I'm going down. Getting advice from her, I can't believe it. Not only do she have diarrhea, but she's still in my gig. What makes you sad?

Well, I'm numb, so that's a hard one. But when was I last sad? Well, I think there's a level of. of sadness all the time because I'm really aware we're going to die. What do you think the world's going to end or we're going to die because you're mortal? Because I'm mortal. So I think about it all the time. As a matter of fact, I'm going to, in September you're dying in September? No, I have made a reservation. I'm going to become a death doula. Oh, hold people's hands. Yeah, but I'm going on a course. First of all, I'm interested

in who else is on my course. You know, that's going to be a good one. So I'd do a week in September. That's amazing. So when was the last time you cried if you don't cry easily? Oh, when Ellen Rickman died. Then I, you know, they said, I thought he had a heart thing. So I was going, get him a heart specialist. And then his partner said, no, he's dying. And then I burst, you know, and I ran in and I threw myself on him. Blood gates. And it was like an animal wild. And then another time when my son was leaving for school, I turned into a house. animal. I mean, leaving, leaving. Yeah. And, yeah. But it's not even, no, it's soft. It's open. So that, that made me sad. And I think births like that as well,

like we become animals. When we're really on the edge of human, like the existence feeling, you become an animal. Yeah, you become a howling wolf. That's what I was. On all fours, howling and he was only going to Southampton. He came back the next day. But there's something primitive. But you knew that metaphorically he'd left. He's gone. Yeah.

But sad, I think there's a modicum of sadness around me because I'm too aware of the end of it. You know what I mean? I don't have that thing anymore because I know it's going to end. Do you feel like everything's goodbye? Everything is goodbye. And people say, it will, No, it's hello too.

Well, you say hello and I'll say goodbye. Hello, hello. Yeah, I knew. See, I did that. If we had a show where you sang and I just talked, that would be my horrible intro. How do you, do you ever have, like, blazing rouse in your marriage that make you sad? No, he won't argue with me.

He's very English. Is that frustrating? Oh, my God, because my parents beat the shit out of each other. Oh, yeah. You know, so. That was great for them. Yeah. Those were the days.

That's where the days. I want to do what Italians do where you just let it rip and then you have sex or something. Yeah. But he won't do it. Have you ever asked him? Bloody, bloody, bloody.

That's as much as it. Yeah, he won't lose it. He thinks it's nuts. He thinks I'm ready for the hospital. I said, no, this is healthy. You know, because I was addicted. I was a junkie for anger. Like I'd find traffic wardens

and I'd give them the juice of getting angry. You know, I always say nobody gets addicted. to kale, but boy is anger addictive. Yeah. It's delicious. And I used to just shred them. Do you think anger's easier than sadness? Oh, yeah.

It's like a version of, but it's like a much more easy version. Well, fear's the easiest. Mm-hmm. And then anger comes out of fear. But sadness is... You don't want to admit it. I think you have to be sophisticated to have heartache. Yeah.

You know, I mean, people go, when it's an awe thing, I hate when English people go, oh, bless. I really, I mean, some people will weep a little bit, but I mean, I want the full, it has to be really an emergency for me to weep. You're really feeling everything all the time? I think so. Why are you saying that? Well, no, because you said, like, before you said, I feel everything.

That's why I've got this, but then you've got this medication to sort of stop yourself, feeling because you maybe naturally feel too much. Am I on the wrong show that I, you know, I know there were these questions, but my opener was I'm numb. So I guess... No, no, no. You can cut me out. We're not cutting anything out.

Just cut me out of the show and just have you talking. This is good. Okay. Does your husband cry? No, he's pretty much bloody. You know, they all came from the trenches. Bloody, we're loving it, having their scones and singing with the dood. bombs falling, you know, lovely. And the fall that was a murderer, you know, killer in the army.

And doodly, doodoo, tickety, tickety talk. Didly do they have names for the drinks. He was drinking like having a bit of a tiggle. It'd be like drinking a bottle of gin and some, you know, other beer in the morning. And then they, 12 o'clock there'd be something else. A woody woo. And then in the evening, it'd be a pistopo. But it was all nursing rhymes. But, you know, the guy, I wanted to ask about what it was like where he fought. Yeah. And he was famous. Well, did he fight?

Yeah. He was a soldier. Yeah. In the Marines. In the, oh, fuck, I don't know. Well, something. The Royal Navy. The Royal Marines.

The Royal Marines. Yeah. Ed's going to be so proud when he hears it. With such patriots here. Do you think men are attractive when they cry or unattractive? Or is it appalling? If they're crying over you. Oh, yeah.

That's hot. Yeah, that's great. Do you like power then? In a man? No, like to feel like the power of like, oh yeah, this guy's suffering for me. Well, it's only happened a couple times because I didn't really date till I was much older because I was so scared. And they would, you know, always use me because I became kind of idiot.

You know, because I was so scared of men. So I never was funny. So I only had homosexuals around me. Yeah. Because they thought I was all riot. Because of your dad, were you scared? So you were like they're all like him. Yeah.

So I stayed away. But you did. You didn't marry someone like him. I did. I married a homosexual. No, I went the other way. Yeah. I married two homosexuals.

I can say that now because earlier on I would have been kicked out of the country. But now, ha ha, ha, it's too late. You're stuck. Yeah. What, like gay best friends? No, I married them. Oh, okay. One guy, I really loved him.

I mean, my right arm is really strong. And then I knew something was wrong because under the bed was male. porno and I thought, well, we have the same taste in genitalia. But were you sad about that? Yes, I was devastated. The love of your life in your mind at the time, right? Yeah. He was gay.

I knew that, but I thought I broke him. Oh, you thought he'd turned him? I thought I turned him. He never turned. Yeah. Is he still your friend? No, he disappeared for 30 years. Where is he?

Well, I don't know. But he disappeared. At one point, he wrote me a letter saying, because I was going to Hawaii for some work thing and he said i'll meet you there and i'll you know make a dinner for you because he was there with his boyfriend and then i got there and i said well where are you and he said i'm not going to let you ruin the second half of my life like you did the first oh my god i imagine the shock yeah wow yeah but was that because he was trying to pretend to be someone he wasn't that he thought you ruined it no i wrote my first book and i said that this guy rickman said change his name so i

I said, Michael and I got married in Las Vegas, and then I talked about his homosexuality, and I realized his parents would know who Michael was. Yeah. You know, because I said I married him. So you outed him. I outed him. That's why I think he's angry. I'm sorry, Trevor, if you're listening to this.

Oh, now I said his name. Oh, stop. I'm in so much trouble on this show. Never play this. Never play this. This is our private little show. Yeah, no one's going to watch this anyway. So bad, have you done bad things?

I only do bad things. I lie to people. I lie all the time. I'll say I have COVID for people I don't want to see. Yeah. Taxi drivers say, how come we haven't seen you on television? And sometimes I say, because I have something terminal and they shut up real fast. Or I'm a big movie star in America.

You know what I mean? Yeah, that's just wicked. Yeah, but no, I do lie to people. And I... But you take pleasure. No, I just think I have to. Why? I just always manipulated people.

Like with my dad, I had to manipulate and lie and then he beat the shit again. You can say that. He'd kill me because I said I was in someplace, you know, and I lied and then he'd fly there and it'd be like showdown, you know, in some Western. He'd be waiting in the street and in front of my friends. He'd just whack me over and over. So humiliating. Remember that one? So humiliating.

Because I lied, because I was seeing a man. But it didn't work out. And you should be lying when you're that age anyway. Yeah, I was 45. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was late in the day. So I'm learning, I learned to lie.

They never let you grow up. Yeah, I do deceive people. But also you said before that you manipulate people to get what you want. Well, I did at my show. When I had my show, I manipulated. But that's quite clever, I think, because it's like you have this capacity to relax people. Am I relaxing you? Yeah.

Oh, really? Yeah, because I feel like when I'm around people who don't judge me, I feel much more relaxed than people who do, and I don't feel judged. No, I'm not judging you. Yeah. I'm a little envious because you have a better face. And that could make me hate you in the past. There would have been a little animosity.

Did you think? A bit of tension. You know, when I did Trump, he said one thing that was clever because he scared me so much. Well, he hates women, by the way. He hated. Unless you want to screw him, and then he's okay. Yeah, but he doesn't even like them either.

No, then he abuses you in a different way. But because he couldn't read me, he started to go at me like my dad, like vicious, vicious. And like, what are you talking about? What are you trying to say? And then he did say, you're smiling with anger or something like that. Oh, yeah. Like he could read it. He suddenly got a really, and I thought he wasn't even looking at me, but he said you're smiling with anger.

Yeah, but that might have just been a stock thing he says to everybody. No, no, he could smell it. It finds him irritating. and condescending. When I met Melania, you know, and she was in love with him. She talked about how great his sex was. And he was, he wasn't, you know,

I mean, when we did his hair, my makeup artist, she took like a nose hair and then wound it around his head about 40 times. It was like Mr. Whippy. Now he's got like the, you know, wildlife, just wildlife up there. But he was, there was something to him, to Melania, he was sexy. And he was younger.

Yeah, but isn't that? to do with power and money? No, no. I mean, it might do, but she was innocent. She was a little lingerie model. She doesn't look like she fancies him anymore. Not anymore. But to manipulate, so you know, you said before what, you do that to get what you want? Yeah. What do you want? Sometimes it's to get somebody to like me. Do you want to be like? Well, by certain people. Okay. And then I'll kiss their ass and I really want you to like you. I like you. I'm happy to tell you that. Oh no, and I'm happy to hear it. I also just feel that, like, because get a bit of advice from you, because I think that sometimes when I want someone to like me, I try a bit hard.

And then they think that I'm a little bit too much or a bit too intense. Yeah. Does that happen to you? Well, it used to, when Al, I'm talking about Alan Rickman a lot, because he was my mentor. Yeah. So when I used to do comedy or when I was trying to please, he said, pull it back. He said, make people come to you. And I said, you know, I had this like alligator smile and he said, the eyes.

or hatchets. He hated when the eyes went, you know, desperate. Yeah. And even on stage, when you don't give a shit, but you kind of do way underneath, that's the perfect time when you could take it or leave it. But they're still like they can see love, but you're not dribbling. You're not desperate for the validation. Do you feel like that ever goes away as a performer? Yeah, well, he taught me. And after 30 years, I think I don't look like I'm hungry. But deep down, are you still? Yeah, I have a, I do have an ego. I want to be liked by large groups of people, like you do.

Yeah, but not singular people. And singular people, yeah. I'm always scared that people don't like me. That's my biggest fear. So I'll call a lot of people and they'll call me back, but then I don't call them back. I just need to know I'm like juggling plates. You could. Like, I always complain that I'm not invited to things.

Do you know how many things I have to do tonight? How many people? So I have to take a lot of people that I have COVID. When's that going to not be valid anymore? I remember in high school I had it too. I needed to know everybody liked me. I'm quite lucky because I've got an 8-year-old and a 4-year-old. Yeah, you're lucky.

I can just say the kids aren't very well. Yeah. And pray that karma doesn't exist. Or like that you can't just say things into existence. I wish you could say, you know, you bore me or, you know. I'd said it to one person once. What happened? This guy when I was younger attacked me very, very, very violently and I nearly died.

You mean with the body parts? It was a high-speed car chase and he tried to run me off the road. No. He was an ex. And I nearly died. He drove his car into the front of somebody's house and he came and smashed my driver's window in and pulled me out. but I got a black eye and a smashed up face.

And then I got an injunction against him. And seven years later, I saw him. I was going to my job when I worked in the knicker shop, dressed all like so-ho, you know, knickery in the little pink outfit, feeling quite confident in the uniform. And I see this man drive past and he goes, Oh no, the lunatic. Yeah.

And then he gets out. And then he says, says, can I take you for a drink after work? I feel like we need to clear it up. No. Clear it up. Yeah, I said, yeah, I'd like to go. So I went to the drink.

And I let him speak. I didn't say very much. And I asked him some questions. His answers were kind of boring. And then I just said, I'm going to go now. And he said, why? I find you quite boring. And it was the most amazing feeling.

What was his response? He couldn't believe it. Because people don't say that to you. you, do they? No. And he was like, what do you mean? I said, I just don't find you interesting. This isn't a good use of my time. Wow. And it felt like I conquered something. Yeah. And I've never got over that feeling. And I've never said it again, because I feel like I save that one for the big guns. Yeah. Like, imagine you said that to Trump in that interview. Well, he would have loved me, you know, because an abuser loves abuse. Yeah, that's true. They're familiar. I should have gone,

you know what, I've had enough of you that he would have crawled. The point of now of anger is to give it to them but not feel it. So I've learned to use my voice because you need to scare them. You know, a show, I'm not paying that fucking thing.

But inside there's nothing. You remain calm. I remain calm because if you give them your juice, you lost. That's a great bit of advice. Because the next day you have a hangover from your cortisol. I think I do quite a lot of that. Intending to be angry, but not being angry. That's the gift.

But I think you learn that as a parent as well, don't you? Because you have to go, I have told you before. And then secretly you're like, oh, it's kind of cute when they swore at their teacher. Yeah. It's easy with your kids. Try it with a traffic warden. Oh, yeah. Practicing.

Have you ever wished ill on people? Oh, yeah. Always. Why? Because I'm envious. So when somebody has good. news, I very rarely am happy for them. I'm very not so happy that I'm not so happy you have a podcast.

But you're going to get a podcast. Well, I don't know if I want a podcast. And then you'll beat this podcast. If I, you know, when I got in the, I got, when I was a little girl. Then I'll cry and you'll go, ha. I won't. I'll go, I'm really sorry for you, but I'm lying. I'm really sorry I have the job you always wanted.

Have you ever wished someone dead? Always. Who? Who do you want to wish dead? No, no. People that get very successful, you know, sometimes you envy them. Yeah, but who have you... No, I don't want them dead, but maimed.

Okay, but who have you hoped would fall off their pedestal of brilliance? No, if they're really brilliant, I'm not jealous. Like Joanna Lumley, no jealousy. You hate when untalented people become successful. Who needs to go? Who needs to go? Well, then they'll sue me. No.

People that get famous. overnight, you know, and not married at first sight, because that's a show of genius. Genius, yeah. And we love all of them, even though they're horrendous people. But they've shown us everything. You know, it's check off. It's the depth of humanity. Yeah. You see it all.

The worst. But they're, but they're the way it's constructed, you know, it's, the producers really have an idea of how to shape it. I have to say, I don't think the experts are very good on that. No, the experts. They don't know anything. Well, they're a good little break while they're, well, they're, the

Other people are... They were always like, notice the way she just picked up that flower and gave it to him. That was really, really sweet gesture. It's like, thanks for that. The one of Puerto Rico or whatever she is, you know, from Spain. Yeah, the intimacy coordinates. I'm very happy for you.

She's so beautiful. And intimacy comes in many forms, not just sex. Look how beautiful. They're holding hands. I'm so happy. They can go. Yeah. Yeah, they could go.

Not dead, but just, you know, slightly hurt. Move on. Yeah. Try a podcast. No, don't try a podcast. There's too many podcasters. Influences are, I think, could go. Yeah.

Are you ever influenced by any of them? No, I don't know. I don't go online. I mean, that's healthy. I pay somebody to do it for me. I write it. Then I send it to her. I cannot get on Instagram and I can't get on Twitter.

Because I don't want to know followers. Because then if they have a million and I have two, then I want them dead. Yeah, I understand. that feeling. See, I'm tempted to ask you, but then I'll hate you. Ask me what? How many followers you have? Not enough. It's never enough. I would like to have a million, but I don't. I would like to have ten. Million? No, just ten. Ten followers. I think I looked on yours. How many followers? Don't tell me. I don't want to know. La la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la i don't want to know. Hopefully you have more

after this. Okay. Oh, yeah. Fingers grow. But I'll never know. But there's no definition or reflection on how brilliant you are. That's what's annoying about it. Because so many people, like, you go online and then you see someone who's got, I don't know,

46 million followers and you realize that every post is just footage of their boobs. Oh, yeah. I forgot. We're online. I haven't sucked in my stomach. Make me look sin. The final bit is what makes you glad. What makes me glad?

I like when I do a show and I like when they, you know, they like me. And then I'm really glad. Can you feel it? Oh, yeah. Then my heart like does a little, okay, I'm validated. Yeah. Or when they're signing my books and they change my life. Yeah, or they say something or they're crying because something happened to them and they're honoring me by telling me.

I mean, I love it because it's such trust. I felt really guilty after my last album because lots of people came up to me and said I inspired them to leave their partners and I was like oh my God I'm responsible for all these divorces and I wasn't trying to say do as I do that's terrifying

that's terrifying. So I guess if it helps people in a positive way it's good Well I have this charity called Frazzled where people come on we do it online but we used to do it live up and down, Martin Spencer's up and down the country.

And people speak from the heart, you know, like an AA meeting. But they don't do the 12-step thing. But there's breakout groups and they, you know, have a little time to go have cookies and coffee. That's what I love, and cigarettes. Like I love that about AA. I like the idea of community, but we don't have it. So that's why I started frazzled.

So do you attend lots of stuff for fun? I run it. I run it. So it's my baby. We have facilitators every day so you can just get on. It's free. And I run it every two weeks. So you see about 100 people from all over the world.

And there's just saying stuff that, you know, they get a moment to reveal something. And then they know to shut up after a minute because everybody, you get 100 heads going, yeah, me too. And you see them. And it's like you know that their heart cockles are like all warmed and you can feel all that love on the screen. And then when I, every time I hang up, I'm happy. That's so lovely and validating as well because you feel like you've helped people. There's hardly any support here,

but, you know, there is frazzled so you can come on and talk before you hit the bottom because that's to me the kind of safety net. And good luck getting a shrink. And good luck, you know, good luck. And first of all, how do you find a good one? And where do you have the money? There's so many bad shrinks.

So many bad shrinks. I became a shrink just to see who was ripping me off. I have a degree. Do you? You've done everything. No, I haven't, but I will by the time I die, which could be in September. Yeah. But at least I'll be a death duel. I'll be able to hold my own hand. She died in this position.

And she was happy. She smiled. It was the first time she smiled in years. It was actually genuine for the first time in her life. Because I said I knew this would happen. Thank you, Ruby. You're amazing and inspiring. And I don't wish ill on you. but I'm happy for you to wish ill on me.

Why would I wish ill on you? Well, you said that. You said you might. No, no, no, not on you. Because if people are really talented, I have to forgive them. Okay. So I've forgiven you. I'm happy to acknowledge that I'm mediumly talented in several different worlds

and I've managed to cobble it together. I think you need a shrink. I could do it for you. Why don't you do it for me for a discount? And we film it every session. Would you do that? No. God really excited.

We'd be like Esther Farrell. What an interview. How long was that? I'm taking this stuff. Okay. Really fun. Great being interviewed by you. Bye bye.

Thanks so much for no money. All of the links of everything we mentioned in the show can be found in the episode description. Oh. And while you're there, why not subscribe and follow the show too? See you all next time. There's potatoes.