Mad, Sad and Bad with Paloma Faith - Self Esteem: Success Is The Best Revenge

Episode Date: February 10, 2026

Rebecca Lucy Taylor (AKA Self Esteem) is an absolute icon to me! The most talented singer, actor AND author, what can’t she do?? We spoke about our shared experiences as female musicians in the industry, her ‘dream’ holiday (turned nightmare), and whether calling yourself Self Esteem actually helps you have any… We also spoke about postpartum psychosis with my good friend and author Laura Dockrill. Her brilliant memoir “What Have I Done?” is out now. This was such an interesting conversation and I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did!!You can catch Rebecca starring in “Teeth ‘n’ Smiles” at the Duke of York theatre in London from March 12th, tickets are on sale now! Her book ‘A Complicated Woman’ is out now.If you've been thinking about trying collagen, now's the time! Oslo Skin Lab's sachets are easy to add into your daily routine and scientifically backed to reduce signs of ageing and improve skin elasticity. Use code PALOMA at checkout for an exclusive discount. SHOP HERE.Consult your doctor or nurse before starting any new dietary supplement during pregnancy and/or breastfeeding.#SELFESTEEM #PALOMAFAITH #MADSADBAD —Find us on: Instagram / TikTok / YouTube—Credits:Producer: Emilia GillAssistant Producer: Alex ReedVideo: Josh Bennett, Harry Sawkins & Jake JiSound: Rafi Amsili GeovannettiOriginal music: BUTCH PIXYSocial Media: Laura CoughlanExec Producer for JamPot: Ewan Newbigging-ListerExec Producers for Idle Industries: Dave Granger & Will Macdonald Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Yeah, okay. Thanks for the tea. Hello, I'm Paloma Faith and this is my show Each week I welcome someone fantastic into my home to talk about what makes them mad, sad and bad Roll recording

I'm already sad you're going to leave Oh me too Have you got any Yorkshire too? I've got Yorkshire too Of course I knew you were coming To you self-esteem A.K. Rebecca Lucy Taylor is like your coolest, most emotionally intelligent friend, turning radical honesty into dance floor catharsis.

She makes big, bold pop, soaked in vulnerability, feminist rage and sweaty joy. Her songs are all about heartbreak, self-worth, bad decisions and learning to take up space. After years in the duo's slow club, she relaunched herself as self-esteem in 2017 and quickly stood out for her fearless personal pop. Her second album prioritised pleasure was her breakthrough, earning Mercury Prize and Brit nominations, which led to her becoming 2021 BBC Music introducing artists of the year. She's since expanded into theatre,

bringing the same emotional honesty and feminist power to bold, critically praised stagework with her upcoming West End debut and Teeth and Smiles coming to stage this March. But to me, she is a woman who is held in high regard by all feminists, including me. And I should also mention that every single one of my lesbian friends are totally obsessed with her and were gagging to come for this record.

I was literally saying, no, it wouldn't be appropriate for you guys to turn up at the doorstep and beg her for a date, not today. So it's the amazing Rebecca Lucy Taylor, aka self-esteem. Yay! That was wonderful. That's my obituary sort. I can't. I can't. Have you got any self-esteem? No. I did. And it's left me recently. Oh, it goes up and down there, doesn't it? You find that all the time. Yeah. I think, oh, you've got it now you're sorted. And then last year, I put another album out and it was like quite hard work and made me doubt myself. Do you know what as well? I don't know how you feel, but my second album, it was like, artist of the, all that. Yeah. And then none of that's really up and.

I'm the third one and it feels like it's all over. But it's not. It's like part of your... But also from other people's perspective, they're all saying you're everywhere, you're doing amazing. And you're like, you don't understand the machine. Somebody's paying for me to be everywhere

and I'm not actually making it. But I've got the same as you. It's like the inner voice is really bad. Also, it's really hard not to go, why is it? Like, in my case, it was like, I had a baby, so I was written off. Oh, fine.

But, like, in your case, it will be something else. I don't know. The headgear. I don't know. People don't like the nun thing. But also it's gone dead well. Nons that aren't as sexy as. I did a whole thing where it like pans out and I'm like, I'm in a habit.

But I've got like jogging bottoms on and trainers. And I was like, oh, no one likes that. But no, I'm trying to. You're looking at the long game. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, I'm going to make so many albums. And they'll all be different. And they can't all be, um, successful.

Go well in that way. It's just funny, isn't it? commercially. But I also like, I won a Brit once and I spent my whole life and still to this day think that someone paid for that. It's so fun. I was like, the system's not what I think it is, I'm sure. So I'm sure that someone went, oh, whose turn is it this time?

Have you seen the film Mulholl and drive? Yes. You know when they give the picture and like, this is the girl. And they're like, no, that's not who I cast in the movie. And it's like, no, this is the girl. But that's what it's like, it's insane to like validate yourself on those things. But I will say I did. Because the lack of them, I'm like, well, I must be shit then.

But no, I'm coming out the other side. But to answer your original question, I don't really have much at the moment, but I know that I've got to start again doing the work to get it. How does it manifest for you when you've got it versus when you have it? Just less of this one. Like, I just, it's so fair enough to just be myself and do this and say what I do. But it's just, like, any, I don't know what your journey was before, like, like, you're way more famous than me, but like even slightly getting a bit famous

was like terrifying. And it's so weird. And so I scared shit my pants. Like it was so, like the first time of some people being like, actually what you said there was actually incorrect because of this. I was like, well, I'll shuddle. look for the rest of my life then? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, you just go back, are you cancerian? Now I'm a Libra there. And you go like back into the thing where you're like,

oh, I'll just hide now. Yeah. But it's artistically, I'm like, oh, but that's why you say all this in the first place. This is why you started this whole thing. So it's cool. So also speaking stuff out loud is a way of learning yourself. So I think it's weird when people hold you to everything you say. So you're like, I was learning as I was saying it. Am I not allowed to do that anymore? Because there's a camera on me. You're meant to know what you think. I just think like she didn't know shit. Yeah. And I don't know, but I'll talk like I do. Yes, exactly. That's what I'm here to do. Make it for you make it. Yeah. But I feel like, I feel like it's good for you to call yourself self-esteem because you're sort of at least trying.

Well, I called it because I thought it was a cool man name and then I was like, oh, I didn't have any and this has given me it. So that's quite nice, you know, pull quote. Yeah. Yeah, it is a good remind it. It's like it's truly manifesting every day to remember to have it. Funny how quick it can go though. I was very disappointed in myself. I was like, you're singing this and you go and I'm thinking, oh God, you know, me eyebrows. I've done songs about how amazing my body is. And then you're like, I don't want to perform that one tonight. I think we shouldn't do, yeah, I get this. We just changed a set list around. Not just us. I had this conversation the other day. where I was like, you know, being a woman, I'm 40 in October, right?

And you're like, okay, I don't give a fuck, but also it's doing something, you know, to my sense of self. And especially being a woman in the music industry, you are, it's just in red pet and, you know, like done now kind of. And you're fighting so much and people go to me, oh, but you could be the person who fights that. I'm like, I want to be that person. But like, my mate the other day was like,

I don't think many, you know, I don't think Babi looked that good in his 40s. I don't think the stones look that cool. They got it back about, you know, 48, but it's all right. It's a tough time for anyone. Don't do a blues album. Oh, ooh. She came on here to announce something.

White men and guitars doing a blues album. That's the thing. You could just do that. We've got to rethink it all. I've got to get a, I've got to employ a small child to dance as me. You could do a jazz album. That's the woman the equivalent. So, mad.

So tell me about, so it's an interesting one because it's so broad. I think it's quite interesting that on some level, people who are kind of creative and experimental like us will have been called mad quite a lot of times in our lives. Like, oh, you're mad you or you're a bit like, mad as the box of fronks. And then, but there's also like, or quirky, which is my least favorite. word but then there's like also actual mental health issues and sometimes I just stop you there it's not quite that yeah I think when when it happened that I had this brief day of a postpartum psychosis thing and the midwife came in and she was like and I said I know everyone thinks I'm mad but this time I really am

and it was like I had to sort of say no one would believe me when I was actually mad but everyone's called me at those times as like a sort of term of either misunderstanding or endearment like I love you you're mad but I just said that I don't know what your experience of both of them are yeah I definitely like when I

As a teenager, and I don't even think I'm that weird, but I do, I'm just creative and not male. So, yeah, I had the same sort of, you're mad. But as soon as you sort of make sense to someone, so I just remember it as a teenager, I was writing songs and being sort of worky or whatever. And at first it was a relief because I was like, oh, there we go, there's a lane I can get into, you can understand me and I would play up to that. And but I, you know, obviously tons of therapy.

I'm like, that's not the truth. And like it was doing myself a disservice. But as always, you just immediately have to try and make sense in the box. And I like, I wasn't like getting off with people and I wasn't like a nerd, but I was singing songs and friends was a big thing. So everyone was just like, oh, you're Phoebe.

And I was like, do you know what? I'll take it. So I was just like, I'm Phoebe. And I identified as a thing. And I identified as that. And actually, I, you know, I'm, I'm Rebecca. And I had, you know, it was all true creativity starting. And it just didn't get a harness, I would say.

But yeah, and then I've had, I mean, the backbone of what I'm doing is self-esteem is, you know, it's multifactorial, but there was a real nasty bastard boyfriend that was like, you're crazy. Proper classic, proper, like, Dickens style, gaslighting. and the Bible of. You express yourself there for you're mad. Yeah, and it really worked because I had no idea, you know, and it was like,

I even let him join the band for a bit. And I was like, what I'm saying? What I'm fucking do? But, yeah, I had that experience with me. That frustration, though, like, I've done mad stuff because I've been so badly gathlet. Like, I'll confess,

which I've not said in public before, and it's really sad, actually, that once I became so frustrated by a person I was in a relationship with that I had butted the wall and gave myself a three-day migraine. Now, that's not my normal behaviour, but I was so like,

oh, you're not listening to me? I was really young at the time, and it's really sad that I was in that situation. But, like, it just blames the person, and it's like years, or, I don't know how long you were together for, but sometimes you can just get to the point where you're so sad,

and you just look at yourself and you're like, I'm so sorry that I did that to myself and put myself in a situation where I behaved luckily in a way that I've never done again. But I was like 20 or something. And I just think you've got to let yourself off the hook of bit about that. Yeah, I see it as like it was good in a way because I never did it again.

I had a diet version about a decade later and I was like, hang on. I can see this coming. And I've just like made myself small. Hang on a second. But yeah, I, that's the sort of last time, that sort of put an end to me identifying as mad or crazy because I was, you know, we all went through. I'm not.

We all went through like, oh, you know, it's like, it thinks it's girl boss feminism, but it's like, I'm not crazy, I'm just reacting perfectly reasonably to what is going on in terms of the injustice between me and you, talking into like a boyfriend if you want. But, yeah, I mean, everything about my,

career has been me avenging for that girl. Well, success is the best revenge. Yeah. I was good petrol for a bit that. It's run out a bit then. Yeah. And the more zen I get, I'm like, oh, you know, I don't need them to feel like that. I'm like, oh. So give. No, I'll say no to that thing. Everyone's like, could you get a bit disturbed again? I'm so zen. I don't need revenge and it's quite bad for the diary. But one of my amazing friends is here. He's a lot of stuff to say on this. So I'm going to bring her in. Oh, yes.

So this amazing lady, Laura Dockrill, she's a very, very prolific writer. She's written loads of books for adults and children. And I do my bedtime story with my kids most nights on one of your books. But also has written quite extensively about actual madness, mental health. Because also, like, we've known each other since before you had a little bit. mental health break and I had a little one as well because of giving birth but like we've both always been called the mad mad as well as like a thing so I thought it was good to bring

Laura in and also if you haven't read any of her books you absolutely must what's your book about the mental health break called called what have I done yeah yeah and it's all about having a baby and getting postpartum psychosis. Yes, which is what happened to me. But I mean, I'm so glad what you were just saying about the mad version. You basically brought me on as proof that there's more than one of us. Yeah, I'm not allowed. I'm happy to be that.

It's so good to see you. I loved you. You were so good in camera. And I came to your show at Heaven and you were just amazing. I've got the T-shirt. I'm really, yeah. Yeah, she's in from a fan. I am.

I am. Before everyone else knew, I was there. But yeah, do you want to talk a bit about what happened? Sure. So nearly eight years ago, Jet will be, my little boy will be eight in February. I had a casserole of nonsense style birth where everything that could have possibly had gone wrong did. I had a very happy, healthy pregnancy.

And then out of the blue, basically, I got hit with this post-atal mental illness called postpartum psychosis. I'd never experienced mental health or had the language or identity to know what that was, you know, what anxiety was or list it, name it. And it just completely turned my world upside down. I was hospitalised in a psychiatric ward and separated from my little boy for two weeks and then a week at home where I wasn't allowed to be on my own with him. And I feel like I'll never be the same as the person.

You know, you said you knew me before having jet. I don't think I have traces of that girl. I mean, just listen to all the wonderful things you guys were saying, but about like you're recognising being small again or any of these things, I have to really, that's part of my, I'm not taking this forward now. That's why I'm so grateful as mad as it seems, but I'm grateful for the illness because I'm not doing that again now, you know, after going through something like that.

Have you ever struggled with like, oh, wow, in and out? Yeah, I've been on medication since 2012. I'm, you know, I've got, I'm a therapist coming out my eyeballs. But yeah, I have no, it's sort of who I am as well. Like I just really interrogate, I can't get enough of figuring it out. Now I know what I know. And I guess I'm being a bit of a snob, but I am like, I do sort of feel sorry for people who haven't questioned their brains

and looked into why they might think like they do or why things like, you know, it's also, you're a product of what's happened to you, but also this shit like your hormones, like my God, like that's no one's fault. Also, it doesn't discriminate. You know, there'll be someone that everyone at the bus stop now has or is or will go through something and counter something

that will change their lives for one reason or another. And I used to think before getting you, I was so naive. My worst person is young me. When I like see a young person who's like, I just love going to theatre and begs and plays. I'm like, oh wow. Like it's just like the naïvety of not to know that that stuff can truly exist. And yeah, I'm grateful that it's happened to all of us at the age and it has because it's kind of unavoidable in some spectrum.

But I used to think you either have, you know, live with mental health difficulties or you don't. It's like it doesn't work like that. We can teach our kids and isn't that so cool? I'm so grateful that I get like, my little boy the other day was like, I'm worried if I die at 15. and then I'm worried about the age of 15 and that makes me anxious because of the future and I was just like the fact he's been able to articulate that I wouldn't have known what that feeling of dread or doom was

like other than I've come out of the cinema at 3am and is it day, is it night, feel disorientated, it's Monday before school. The fact he can say that and I went through what I did to be able to teach him I think that's really brilliant. Yeah, that's exciting. Yeah, it is.

Because we didn't have access to that. Absolutely not. But why were we with those protractors and compasses? Never needed a protractor in my goddamn life. Do you need a bit of help on life. Thank you. Tell me about what anxiety is. Don't need that pivot with the compass.

I can tell you, yeah. How much do you think living in, like, patriarchal culture is, like, embedded in us? Because I know that I try to be a feminist, and I was raised by a feminist, and then I read, sometimes I'll, like, pick up a book. I read this one called Motherhood. I was reading it, and I was just like, oh, my God, I do that. And it was all about like how we perpetuate patriarchy without realizing. Like you might go, oh yeah, I'm like, you know, an outspoken, empowered woman that's, you know, got my shit together.

And then you realize that you're just feeding into it. And that's just, it's a kind of madness. So like when people say, oh, she's an angry woman, it's like, well, you're kind of like, it's a bit weird not to be an angry woman. Yeah, I'm disappointed in people that aren't. angry. I shouldn't say that. But I'm like, hello. Like, are you kidding? You accepting that?

Or like to make yourself smaller, like you said. So thanks, Laura. Thank you. You're amazing. I'm so glad that you're completely perfectly imperfect. What a lot of you. So lovely to see. I know, me too.

Let's move on to sad. Oh. Yeah. Sorry, you just said to me. All right. What makes you sad at the moment in this? I mean, pick, pick one thing. Because that entire world is completely in shit.

It's really shocking. It's tiny or it's huge. It's the world and it's also like my little bit of it. Like I find, I'm having it. I'm sure we all are, I think like turning 40. There's just this big reset going on of like, I guess it's just not what I thought it was going to be. And then there's a grief to that.

Like in terms of fair. and political fairness and things like that. And also tiny things like, you know, it's not as simple as I thought it might end up being eventually. So I feel sad about that. I'm sad about the music industry. I don't want to get on that one. We can.

We can talk about that. I mean, I realized recently, you know, something on the internet I saw and it was a woman being way more articulate than me was just sort of saying like this thing that I have believed in, you know, it was 20 years now. I've been trying to get somewhere. there and obviously it's been a slow death but the AI thing has like sped it up a bit and it

this it just feels like this is full stop on it being this thing that I might be able to naturally thrive in and rise in and it be fair there's a real sadness to it because I can't um you know I was 18 and I was like let's go I believe in this so much and I know if I work hard I don't know if and I'm good enough, I'll get there. And obviously there's been big shockers where I'm like, oh, I'm not, you know, I'm working class. So, like, oh, that's why it's took a bit longer here. And I've got work, so I can't, like, you know,

tour as much or things like that. There's been all those little, or I'm a woman. And, you know, I'm like, oh, that's why it wasn't as easy. And then I feel like I got somewhere finally. And now it's like, and it doesn't exist anymore. It's like a weird sort of just for anybody who doesn't understand, because we're in it. So sometimes you talk about this stuff and you're like,

everyone knows, because it's not someone's world. But like, so streaming, no one makes any money from streaming. And for new artists or like it's even worse because they're just not, you need to get, I think it's something like six million streams to make minimum wage or something.

So that's really hard. And then there's all this expectation as well. where back in the day it used to be about whether your music was good. Now it's like, well, also you have to be great at marketing. You have to be really good at social media. You have to be like funny or charismatic. You have to also have other skills because you're not going to make any money from just your music. And everyone, the expectation as well of like what a tour would look like is so high

because huge artists put on massive productions so you can't just like go on to a stage and do because people would say it wasn't a great tour and like all the rehearsals cost money and all the people and and then it's like oh how do you make anything and I'm just like to come from the perspective as well if somebody is like a musician that's making a podcast

and has written a book and you know design this so far also. Actually legitimately, yeah, no, I'd love someone to ask me to design it. I'd love my home on everything. But like, I mean, it's literally because music just isn't enough to sustain a lifestyle.

Then it means that you're left with A, are the only voices we're ever going to hear in art again, wealthy voices and are they going to speak for all of us? That's the saddest thing. And obviously I care about myself loads and I'm worried about me. But I also, I just know how important it is. And I have first onhand experience of just being in my peers were all from privilege

in a way that it's not their fault, but it just means you get to be better because you get to put more time into it. And like you can't get good unless you're really devoting yourself to it. And it's just going to get bigger and bigger that gap. Sometimes working class people, break through because like us, they're brave enough to go, I'm going to try and I'm willing to live on nothing for a bit to do it. But I know, for example, from my mum who comes from like absolutely nothing, every time I've taken a risk in my life, she's been absolutely terrified. She's like, no, no, no, you need to do a PGCE.

You need to have a nice, like, comfortable life with a regular pay packet and do not try and be a musician. my whole life she was like do not do this I love that you love it and it's wonderful you've got the outlet but get yourself a proper job I'm very much at a stage now where people are like you know like George made listen without prejudice because he just wanted to it

I was like yeah but he was already like a multi-millioner like or okay computer was because they were you know they'd had enough and they just were and so even in my reference points I'm like yeah but we can never one can never feel like that again because I can't fully

well I'm going to try to fully disconnect from the fact that I need to keep a roof over my hand and I'll try and make the art that but it's how do you ever how do I ever truly uninfect my brain from that fear but like I think I'm hoping I can have this like holistic career of different art forms that do it but also I'm under no illusions of you know having to get that PGCE eventually I hope not but you know have you ever used AI in music no Are you got anti?

I'm yeah But I'm also confused Because I I know we've got a move with it And it's not really fed well for me Being so indignant about The world being different To it

You know Yeah there's loads of number one songs And you look them up And then it's like literally The people don't exist That played them or sung them Or wrote them And you're like

Oh my God But I don't There's a fork in the road in it. It's like you either like get with it or... But there must be a middle way. Well, that's what I'm hoping. I've tried it where... Just so you know, just to think,

I've written a song like a normal session and then put it into a programme and said, do a track for this song with my voice on it. And a lot of songwriters I know that don't play instruments have been doing that. So they might sing a song in to a clip track. And then they'll say, write the music to go under this so I can send it.

It is shocking how amazing. Oh no. I didn't want it to be. But I did it because I was like, I want to know. I don't want to like just go no. It's the best song I've ever put out. It sounded. It's so good.

And I was like, oh my God. It's fuck. Even the backing vocals sounded like human beings. What are going to do? Because it was just me initially. That's so useful. like backing vocals and everything. And you could say what kind of

backing vocalists you wanted and stuff. Because back in the day we used to go to A&R and then say, here's a song and they'd go, no, not good enough because it is just piano vocal or something. And then now you can go, here's it with a big brass band and a 57 piece orchestra. Tell me it's not a good song.

Yeah. And then they're like, wow, this is the best thing I've ever heard. And it's the same song. Yeah, it's really, it's just so frustrating. But terrifying. But I'm sort of split because I'm like, I completely agree with you. Like, I hate it. But just to work it out, I'm like, oh no. Moving on to bad, tell me about this terrible holiday.

Oh, I knew I'd feel like this one. Talking about culture and art and the price of it and privilege and class. But I did just go on a very expensive holiday. Was it your first expensive holiday? My first, like, blue. you know. Did you find it or did someone find it for you? I found it.

I found it. It said body, mind and soul on the website. Oh well, that's me sold. I know. But it was like damp, dirty and Taylor Swift songs by the bar. Did you complain? Incessently. We, so we got...

Set the scene. Right. I'm like, we're flying 11 hours, which is already why have I done this. And then, and we get there and we get there at 10. Oh, we can't get the car from the car rental place because I haven't got a credit card yet. I don't have one still. No, I know.

I don't give me the option to. I like real money. I don't want to borrow it. So anyway, we're driving. My current male lover has to drive four hours in the dark in Mexico for the first time in his life. At one point, we left the ground entirely. I thought, as close as I've been to a car crash in my life,

I was this. It was just, it was awful. Towards the end, we had to put Joseph in the cycle of a dream coat on twice. in a row and he was singing at the top of his lungs I thought I love that man he's a keeper but it really worked anyway we got there at 10 to midnight on New Year's Eve the like you meant to be like greeted by like a cleansing ceremony and all this but they'd everyone had gone home so we got like the security guard being like here's you kidding fuck off did you get the cleansing in the morning no so we never got this cleansing ceremony which I

do wonder is part of the problem but room was really damp we like work up freezing and and wet and then we went down to the bar and it just played music all the time and I thought you can't call this nature, body, mind and soul and play balleric Taylor Swift cover. It's not even her singing. Oh, I know the ones you mean. And was there any yoga or?

There was some yoga, but then they'd be like, like drilling. Oh, they would. Loads of drill him. Also, this is bird, right, that was everywhere and it sort of sounded like a chain. saw. And I was like, oh, at least that's nature.

Like, hmm, the sound of chainsaw. At least that's nature. And I googled it. It was like, the most annoying bird in Mexico. It's like indigenous to where we went. They had a nest on top of the hotel. So the only sounds of nature was this chainsaw bird. And we, I ended up, I do sound like a varucasol.

And I was, you know, it was really nice to be in sawn and stuff like. Because if you're paying more than you've, you know, you've had more peaceful holidays for a grand. Oh, I. Yeah. Then you're pissed off because you're like, I thought if I threw money at something, it guaranteed. It would guarantee my relaxation. And it wasn't. Did you complain?

We complained about the music and they turned the music off for 10 minutes. Did you complain to the hotel and get a discount? No. You need to name the hotel. I'm working on it. I'm thinking. I promise myself I'm working on it. I'm going to do a very good letter.

Name them now. It's part of the disloyal. The royalty scheme, though, so I'm going to talk to them. I am going to, I'm never like this, but I was too upset. I got back on Sunday. I still feel mad. Oh, recently. Yeah, I'm insane.

Name a hotel. No, because I'm going to try and not do it. I'm going to hold off doing that as long as I can, but then I will. I'm under no illusions. Yeah. But they, yeah, no, on the seventh day. We'll find out whether she got a refund. Yeah, yeah.

If she didn't, we'll post up the name of the hotel. This is my podcast, I'm going to lunch, which is just episodic me trying to get a refund office hotel because I'll never sleep again. But yeah, I was, I was meant to learn all my lines. I didn't learn any of them. At one point there was this thing called Pintoe Tinto, which was painting with wine. I was like, I'll do the Pintoe Tinto, see if that helps.

And it was, they played the same, they played, oh my God, Sabrina Carpenter's latest single twice in a row. Like it went on, they put it on twice. And no one noticed. And I burst into tears. Pidgey! And the Pintori Tinti woman,

was like, oh, really think you need to learn the skill of complain? I am going to try and say, you know, have some sort of private personal work-life balance. But we'll say it. Are you bad at saying no? Yeah, I haven't said no yet. Like, really. Because I'm too scared it's going to go somewhere. Is there anything you feel like you're not very good at?

Complaining, saying what I need, actually. My album's sound like they do, but it's still hard for me to go. this is what I need and this is how I feel. Do you feel like most of your albums aren't 100% what you wanted but you get to a point where you put them out anyway? The last one definitely is about 20% of it I'm not happy with and that sent me west.

I've got that on every album. Yeah. But again it's just something to wait for isn't it? Like one day it won't be. I don't think you'll ever do anything perfect. People say to me you're a perfectionist I'm like I'm literally not because I've put things out. Yeah.

Like if I was a perfectionist you'd never hear and never read a thing. So I do like, eventually I just go, here you go. And I do think sometimes I'm not 100% right. I do think I'm probably 99.9% right though. So it's in that way. Well, it's your, it's your stuff anyway. It's just like so in here.

Watched Amadeus and I was like, God, I really relate. I'm at myself. Yeah, I'm Mozart. I'm like, why does that feel? I'm like, you better not ever say that said it on podcast out. No, but no, I think part of being the way that you are is, and I'm the same, is like struggling with the conflict between an extreme superiority complex versus an extreme inferiority complex.

Yeah. And it's like it's polarising because, yeah. And you're at odds with yourself rather than anybody external. Uh-huh. And then sometimes I can be like, I'll put it on something external because that's easier and I'll make more sense, but it's not really, it's me. It is me. So I'm sort of tooled up with all this information

and what to try and not do and not be like. But mostly I'd like to... I remember Gaga went before Art Pop and did like... She went to like Jeff Coon's studio and Marina Abramovich and stuff like that. And I was like, I just need to do a bit of that. Probably can't afford all that, but I could probably... Just go to cinema.

Yeah, I'll go to the tape. Down to the View. Go down to the view. See, you know, I'm going to see Lion King again and I'll be fine. Yeah. Finally, what are you glad about? I'm really glad to be here. I'm so glad to me.

Yeah, I'm spiritually on a... Yeah. On this way. We should set up a self-help group on WhatsApp. Yeah, I'm... 50 points get in. I'll do it. But yeah, I'm really glad to be here.

I'm glad I can talk like this. And, like, I am free... That's the one thing I don't bloody struggle with is saying... I mean a chat. I mean, yeah. like saying how I feel and why things feel like this. And I'm glad I have that because some people can't do that. I'm glad that.

I've got tonight off. Can I watch the telly? One evening. What are you going to watch? Well, I'd like to start an episodic sort of crime drama, but it's all negotiation in it when you've got going out with someone. Waiting for the out, that's my advice. Waiting for the out?

On BBC I play. Oh really? Okay. Yeah. Heard it here. First, best bit of telly. Really? It's this year's adolescence.

Oh, I love. Yeah, okay, great. I want episodic. Yeah, six episodes. No one we know is in it. Oh, right, okay. But it's phenomenal. Okay, great.

Thanks for coming on, Rebecca. You're amazing and wonderful. And I'm sure you're going to go from strength to strength. Oh, not. And that's fine. Oh, and by the way, tickets are on sale for my glorification of sadness and greatest hits concert film. It's launching on Sunday 26th of Feb.

Check out the ticket link on my Instagram. Grab a ticket and join us because let's face it, I'm this pregnant, I'm probably not going to be on a stage anytime soon. So if you want to get that vibe, then this is the ticket for you. But wasn't that great? All of the links of everything we mentioned in the show can be found in the episode description. Oh, and while you're there, why not subscribe and follow the show too? See you all next time.

Later, potatoes.