Main Engine Cut Off - T+141: Dylan Taylor, Voyager Space Holdings

Episode Date: December 13, 2019

Dylan Taylor, Chairman and CEO of Voyager Space Holdings, joins me to talk about the new company, how it fits into the industry, his vision for space, and their first acquisition (and past MECO guest!), Altius Space Machines.This episode of Main Engine Cut Off is brought to you by 38 executive producers—Kris, Pat, Matt, Jorge, Brad, Ryan, Nadim, Peter, Donald, Lee, Chris, Warren, Bob, Russell, John, Moritz, Joel, Jan, David, Grant, Mike, David, Mints, Joonas, Robb, Tim Dodd the Everyday Astronaut, Frank, Julian and Lars from Agile Space, Tommy, Adam, Sam, and six anonymous—and 314 other supporters.TopicsVoyager Space HoldingsDylan Taylor - Voyager Space HoldingsVoyager Space Holdings (@VoyagerSH) | TwitterDylan Taylor (@SpaceAdvisor) | TwitterAltius Space MachinesEpisode T+82: Jon Goff, Altius Space Machines - Main Engine Cut OffOneWeb and OneWeb Satellites bolster commitment to Responsible Space with advanced grappling technology from Altius Space Machines | OneWebSpace Holding Co. co-founder on why space a smart investing moveThe ShowLike the show? Support the show!Email your thoughts, comments, and questions to [e-mail] @WeHaveMECOListen to MECO HeadlinesJoin the Off-Nominal DiscordSubscribe on Apple Podcasts, Overcast, Pocket Casts, Spotify, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn or elsewhereSubscribe to the Main Engine Cut Off NewsletterBuy shirts and Rocket Socks from the Main Engine Cut Off ShopMusic by Max Justus

Hello and welcome to Managing Cutoff. I am Anthony Colangelo and we've got a special interview today. We're going to be talking with Dylan Taylor who is the Chairman and CEO of Voyager Space Holdings. This is a fairly new company that is looking to acquire and operate all sorts of different space companies. Their first one that they acquired, and it's actually going to be closing in a couple of weeks here, is Altius Space Machines. This is the company founded by John Goff. We had Altius on the show probably about a year and a half ago now, so I'll have a link in the show notes to that conversation with John Goff. He talks all about what Altius is working on. And that's Voyager's first acquisition. So we're going to talk all about what they're looking for in Altius,

what they're looking for in other companies, and what Voyager is overall, because this idea is kind of different than what a lot of companies are trying out in the industry today. So I'm excited to have Dylan on the show. So without further ado, let's talk to Dylan. All right, we are here with Dylan Taylor himself from Voyager Space Holdings. Welcome to the show, Dylan. Thank you, Anthony. My pleasure. I was excited. You reached out on Twitter a couple of weeks back, and I was keeping my eye on things that you were doing. And then all of a sudden, you announced the acquisition or planned acquisition. I don't know where it currently stands of one of my favorite space companies, Altius Space. So this was a pretty good alignment of things here. And I'm

really excited to talk about how you're approaching this stuff. So maybe that's a good spot to start. Actually, let's even start earlier than that. What is Voyager Space Holdings for people that may have not read the news? Can you give us the elevator pitch and a little bit of where your head is at on what Voyager is looking to do? Sure. No, I'm happy to. And let me just start by saying, Anthony, I'm a huge fan. I think MECO is the best space podcast out there. Oh, thanks. I commend you on all you're doing, and it's an important service for the industry. So thank you. So Voyager, fundamentally, the premise is that we have a healthy space ecosystem, that we've done a reasonably good job of capitalizing early stage companies. We've sort of solved or gone a long way towards solving the angel capital part of the capital formation in the industry.

And of course, at the larger end of the industry, sort of the big four, if you will, that's also quite healthy, just given where spending levels are. However, I think that the next sort of challenge for the industry is scaling. And I think we have hundreds, if not thousands of great entrepreneurial-led space companies that are very successful in their own right, have great tech, great innovation, great people, but for whatever reason, can't quite scale their businesses above a certain size. And I think that's a challenge for the industry because unless and until we're able to get those companies to the next level and have those companies collaborate in a, you know, I call it fly in formation to do really interesting things in space, including, you know, integrated missions, ambitious missions. Unless and until we can do that, I think we're holding the industry back.

And so if you look at successful entrepreneurial-led space companies today, and you look at the different things that scale with size, obviously capital scales, the bigger you are, the more efficient your capital structure is. But other things like finance, administration, public policy, base engineering, testing, public policy, base engineering, testing, even client relationship management and dealing with the DOD and NASA scales with size. So fundamentally, Voyager, it's an operating company. A lot of people confuse it and think of it as an investment fund. It's not that. It's an operating company that's acquiring controlling interests in terrific entrepreneurial-led space companies, and then empowering those entrepreneurs to grow their business to the next level.

And as we build the ecosystem within Voyager, we'll have a master capability that's going to allow us to do some really interesting things in space. And so if you think of sort of the big four, and I would say the big four are really Lockheed, Northrop, Boeing, and Airbus, And I would say the big four are really Lockheed, Northrop, Boeing, and Airbus. And you look at their capability. Imagine if you could build a publicly traded new space company that had similar capabilities, but was more entrepreneurial, more flexible, more adaptable. I think that'd be a pretty cool place to work.

So that's what we're building. And you have a board of directors listed on the website. I don't know if I'm scrolling all the way over, but it looks like five people right now. I would love to hear a little bit about how that team came together. Was this something that a couple of you were kicking the idea around or did it come together in a different way? Yeah. So Matt Kuda is one of the primary executives in the company I've known for years. He was actually a mentee of mine when he was a fighter pilot in the Air Force and had reached out as he was thinking about transitioning from being a fighter pilot in the Air Force to the business

world. So I've known him for years, and this is an idea we've kicked around. He subsequently went to business school at Duke. And then I joke with him, the students become the teacher. Because when he graduated from Duke, I think he had Google, Bridgewater, and Goldman Sachs all fighting over him to hire him, which I thought was pretty remarkable. He ended up going to Goldman Sachs and getting terrific experience on Wall Street. So he's a key part of this. The directors listed on the website, that's just the core fiduciary board.

We have an even more comprehensive and impressive strategic advisory board that's I think 13 people now with a lot of industry leaders. And we've also made many key hires within Voyager that aren't yet on the website. But just to cover the directors quickly, we wanted really a national security expert. And we had brainstormed, you know, who is the number one national security expert in the country?

And in our mind, it was William Shelton, four-star, of course, and former head of U.S. Space Command. And so reached out to him, told him what we were doing. He was excited about it. And then he joined right away. And then we also wanted a planetary science capability that was second to none. And in our mind, the best planetary scientists in the world is Alan Stern. I think that's sort of undisputed at this point. And Alan also agreed to join the board. So we've been very successful, I think, in recruiting top talent, and we're excited about that. That tells me we've got a good idea,

and now it's about executing on that idea. Certainly. So let's talk a little bit about your first company that you're getting involved with here. It's Altius Space Machines. People that have listened to the show for a while might remember John Goff came on probably about a year and a half ago now.

It's been quite a while. So I'll have a link in the show notes to that interview because John and I got into all sorts of different stuff that Altius has been working on and was working on back then, still is working on some of those projects today. Where did you first come in contact with Altius and what was it about the company that attracted you and made it think that it would be a good fit for the Voyager setup that you have in mind here? Sure. So within space, I'll start with sort of where it fits in. Within space, I'm a big believer that on-orbit servicing is the next big thing in the industry. I think we sort of focused on building the elevator, the capability of getting mass to orbit. I think that's going reasonably well. Costs are certainly coming down. Availability is going

up. Reliability is going up. But I think the next big thing is to manipulate mass in orbit. I think that capability, whether it's to de-inclinate hardware, which of course we've got a space debris problem, as we all know. But also we have a lot of space-grade hardware up there that's essentially disposable. It doesn't have to be. If we had better capability in orbit, we would be able to manipulate this mass and do really interesting things like refueling and space manufacturing and the like. So I'm a big believer in that sort of being the next big thing. And then, of course, within that framework, I've known Altius for several years. I've known John Goff for years. I think

John is brilliant. I think he is the thought leader on orbit servicing. I think he's a savant, if you will. I don't know if you know much about John and he would probably be embarrassed for me telling the story, but this is a guy that went to college at age 16. And I think it's just a technically brilliant mind. And again, I think it's just a technically brilliant mind. And again, I think it goes back to the model we were talking about earlier, Anthony. I think John's done a fantastic job building Altius to where it is, but I think we can help him get to the next level. I think we can fulfill the vision that he has in his mind and in the mind of his team there. So I think he's going to have the best of both worlds. He's

going to continue to run his own show, so to speak, and be CEO of Altius, but he's going to have the best of a large-scale holding company, access to capital, access to resources. And so we're really excited about the partnership. Now, one of the things that John and I talked about back on that show, if my memory stretches that far back, we kind of were both talking about, and do we do when we get up there with cheap launch? And that's why I've always appreciated what Altius is working on, because there's so much there about how to operate in space. So should I take that as an example of where your mind is at for the kinds of companies that you'd be looking for is that it is focused more on what to do once you're in orbit rather than getting to orbit? Yeah, no, I think in the Voyager context, we want to be fully integrated. So we will have

a launch capability internal to Voyager. We'll have a, you know, on orbit servicing capability with Altius, but we'll continue to build that out. We'll have a mission control capability, data and analytics, and we'll even have a spacecraft manufacturing capability. So we'll build everything, you know, either organically or acquire companies that have those capabilities. So I believe in the whole ecosystem. I believe that as these companies can fly in formation, you can do more interesting projects and missions. So we're definitely not just focused on one versus the other. And I think launch is an incredibly important part of it.

But I do think the on-orbit servicing has been neglected, for lack of a better word. And I think the reason for that is we haven't really had a density issue in space. I think that you would know this probably better than I would, Anthony, but I think the reason for that is we haven't really had a density issue in space. You know, I think that you would know this probably better than I would, Anthony, but I think we're going to launch more satellites in 2020 than the previous, you know, 20 or 30 years combined, if you just look at some of the constellations going up. Yeah, Starlink alone would put a pretty big dent in that figure there. Exactly. So I think the game has changed. Plus, I just think we've lacked imagination. We meaning the royal we as an industry. There are so many more interesting things you can do in orbit when you have the capability to tug, assemble, refuel, upgrade. Just imagine if you have the equivalent of a grapple mechanism and a USB port on every

piece of hardware in space, you can do some really interesting things. And so I just think as an industry, and if you look at how industries evolve, and I am sort of a student of this because I'm fascinated by it, you typically would see things like this. And I don't know if you saw the announcement yesterday with Altius and OneWeb, but I think those are the kinds of things that happen early on to create industry standards. And as you create a standard, it's much easier for people to align around it. And of course, that reduces costs, it reduces time to market, and increases capability. And those are the kinds

of things that move the industry forward, in my mind. Yeah, absolutely. I do want to talk about that OneWeb announcement. This was, yeah, just this past week, OneWeb is going to be putting Altius's dog tags on all of their satellites. So I'd love to hear a little bit about, you know, is that announcement that was in the works for longer than Voyager was talking with Alteas? Is this something that came about very quickly? I would imagine the timeline was a little bit longer on that. Um, but I'd love to hear about, you know, how that came to be and what you see in that deal, uh, between OneWeb, the big, you know, one of the big constellations and what Alteas

can provide to somebody like that who is particularly interested in making sure that their orbital regime stays clear of debris. That seems like a pretty big deal that people should be really paying attention to. So I'd love to hear from you about that deal. Yeah, sure. Well, first of all, I think we have to give OneWeb a lot of credit, of course, because I think they're taking a leadership role in providing this capability. And I like the way they framed their release.

I think their press they framed their release. I think their press release was well done. There was an announcement by the ESA, I think also today, December 12th, regarding their desire to have sort of deorbiting capability on essentially hardware that goes to space. So I think that the trend is definitely headed in this direction. that goes to space. So I think that the trend is definitely headed in this direction. And I wouldn't be surprised if other constellations take a close look at this type of capability. And that's sort of what I alluded to earlier in terms of industry standards forming as big clients actually coalesce around both a desire and a standard.

So I'm very optimistic about that. Of course, the OneWeb conversation with Altius has been going on a while. When we announced the acquisition of Altius, which I think was in late September, our intent to acquire them, that of course was part of our diligence in terms of what they had in the pipeline. And just to cover that off, the close date, when we're actually going to close on the acquisition with Altius, will be January 1st, so here in about two weeks. Now, one of the things I find interesting with OneWeb in particular and Altius is that it's almost the prime case

that John himself was talking about here on the podcast, that there are certain companies that are more vested in the kind of service that DogTags and Altius as a whole could provide. I'm curious to know, was it tough to convince them to put these on their satellites? Was it something that you really had to make the case for why it is valuable to put these on upwards of 600 satellites because it's something that you kind of have to plan for the worst case scenario if you're one rep, right? You wouldn't be putting these on the satellites if you knew that you were going to have a 100% success rate of these satellites.

So what was it that you think sold them on integrating this onto their entire platform? Yeah, I don't know, Anthony, because I wasn't involved in the sales process, but I wouldn't quite see it as more of a... I think you're alluding to it sort of being a contingency plan for them. And I'm not sure I see it quite that way. I think it's more, this is sort of what's next in hardware and space. And if every hardware provider were to add this feature, it would not only increase the capability in space, but it would alleviate sort of the tragedy of the commons issue that we have right now with space debris. So I think I see it more as a leadership issue.

I mean, at least that's sort of my perspective. In terms of difficulty of convincing them of it, I don't know if I can speak to that directly, but all of these sales processes, if you will, take time because there's just a lot of decision makers involved. But I don't think there was a ton of resistance internally based upon what I know. And again, I commend OneWeb on the leadership with raising their hand on this feature. Yeah, it's very cool to hear somebody taking that jump. So I'm excited about it. Before we move on a little broader, last Altius question for you. Dog tag, certainly big announcement there. What are the other Altius products that you personally are particularly excited about to see hit the market over the next couple of years?

Yeah, well, I definitely buy into John's vision for his Bulldog program. And I think you probably covered that on the podcast. I didn't listen to the entire thing. And, you know, when you think about all the capabilities you would like to have with an on-orbit servicing capability. And it's not only grapple, but it's refueling, it's upgrading, it's manipulating. So fulfilling that overall Bulldog program vision that John has is something that I'm very aligned with. And that's part of the reason why I think John was excited to be part of Voyager, and that's why we're excited to partner and acquire Altius. Now, you mentioned this up front that you're sort of looking for these companies that have

some good things going on right now, that have a certain mindset you like, and that are almost that sort of a tipping point, if you will, that just need a little extra push to get them to where you think they can go. Is that going to be your model as you move forward to other companies as well? Is that you're looking for somebody who is future thinking, but it's not a 10 or 20 year vision, like something like an asteroid mining, which we saw a bunch of companies kind of come and go on that front, that just always seem to have a vision too many decades away to really get traction in the current market. What is your sweet spot there in terms of when you're thinking, is there a particular

time range in mind that you say, this company is going to be doing big things in two years, five years? What is that comfortable spot for you? I think comfortable spot is probably five to seven years. But we're also capable of, I think, making longer bets, Anthony, and being more forward-thinking with the way we do things. Part of the reason why I don't think private equity is a good mechanism to aggregate market share in our industry is because their timeframes are pretty compressed. And once they deploy capital into a company, the clock is ticking in terms of getting it out. And because we're building Voyager purpose-built to be an operating company and ultimately a public company, the benefit of being a public company, notwithstanding the fact that

you have quarterly earnings, is your capital structure is permanent. Permanent insofar as the shareholders might change, but you don't have to recapitalize the company every four or five years like you have to do with a private equity fund. So we're thinking much more long-term. Our ideal company would be around, call it 50 million of revenue. A couple hundred employees would have demonstrated success with their technology, would have demonstrated success with their technology, great people, great clients, great programs, but for whatever reason can't take that next step, either because their capital structure won't allow it, or their management team doesn't know how to take that next step, or they might benefit from being part of a larger ecosystem where they're partnering with other

companies within Voyager that can help them do a better job. One of the disadvantages, I think, with the prime model that we have in place today is there, forgive the term, but there's a lot of shotgun marriages, I think. A lot of people being told, hey, you're going to work with this firm and that firm. Sometimes those aren't great partnerships. And so imagine a larger ecosystem within a holding company where you can actually pick who you're going to work with. I just think it's going to lead to better outcomes. So I think it's one part, longer timeframes than a typical private equity fund would be. It's also sort of building this master capability and allowing

these companies to fly in formation. And I think from the entrepreneur standpoint, as those companies grow, as they double and triple, because we're not buying 100% of the equity, the entrepreneurs who lead that company are benefiting from the value creation there as well, which I think is really important. Now, that's an interesting aspect of this. You're talking about the ability for there to be other investment players in any given company here. You do sound like you have some reservations about the private equity model in general and the way it's been interacting with space the last couple of years. And certainly, not yourself, but there's a lot of people out there that are wondering if we're hitting a bubble moment where

there's going to be a huge investment burst in certain parts of the market. What do you think those interactions would be like in the future if one of your portfolio companies does take investment that might not have incentives that align with their own? Do you see that as causing problems for the vision that you want, or is that something that you're kind of just accepting that as it comes in the future? Yeah, I don't see that coming into play. So for example, if we were to buy 60% of a company and take a controlling interest, the residual equity, we would insist that that really stays with the management team.

And then the decision to take third-party capital would be our decision, not necessarily the operating companies, because that's a company we would then control going forward. So I don't see third-party capital coming in. We might choose to take third-party capital coming in. Maybe it's a strategic investor. Maybe it's a large prime that wants to be involved. We could look at things like that. But I don't see misalignment on the investment structure. And just to address your bubble question or thought, I do think we're going to hit a cycle at some point. There's no doubt about that. We've been in a long cycle here. but I think actually the Voyager model works very well in this

market, but I think it even works better in a down market. And the reason I say that is I think a lot of the stresses in the system and a lot of the issues with lacking scale become even more prevalent in a down market. So I think there are going to be a lot of companies, healthy companies, successful companies, that are going to realize that they can really benefit from larger scale and being part of a larger company in a down market. Now, is that something that you think, do you have a sense that that is coming to us in the near future? Or are you somebody who's maybe not as down on things?

Because some people keep saying, it's happening next year, it's happening next year. This announcement is, this is the first, this is the bubble bursting because everyone loves that storyline. But do you see it as something that's imminent or just something, just like you're saying there, that you're kind of keeping in mind and developing a plan on how to deal with that scenario, but you're not necessarily losing sleep over it every single night? I'm pretty bearish about the capital markets. So I think the capital markets in 2020, particularly in North America, are going to be challenged. And by that, I mean, I think it will be more difficult to raise capital. It will be more difficult for companies to get early stage

funding and the like. So I just think this cycle is sort of run out of gas, and I think 2020 is going to be a tough year. I think for space, though, I'm a bit more optimistic. And the reason I say that is a lot of the revenue is sort of annuity or contract-based. We have some really nice tailwinds with the DOD and some of the national security programs that are pushing the industry forward. And then of course, we have Space Force and other dynamics that I think are going to be helpful. So it's sort of a mixed bag. I think the industry is going to be healthy, but if the capital markets freeze up, which is likely to happen in a down cycle, you can have a healthy industry, but still a capital crunch. And that's sort of, if I was a betting person, I think that's the most likely scenario. What do you see as the biggest risk to Voyager

in the next five years or even in the next 10 years? What's the thing that worries you most about your positioning in the market overall? It's probably a naive answer, but I'm not really worried. Obviously, if you do a bad transaction, especially if it's a large transaction, that can be a setback. But obviously, we're not going to do that. And most of the companies that we have several in the pipeline right now are companies that are well-known in the industry and people that I personally know and have a lot of confidence in. So I really, obviously if the capital markets completely shut down, that would be problematic for everybody. But in general, I do have a sense of urgency with Voyager because I'm so excited about getting to the end state and being able to do some really cool and interesting missions on behalf of the industry. So I do have that some really cool and interesting missions on behalf of the

industry. So I do have that sense of urgency. And I guess maybe one answer, Anthony, would be we rush things and we don't build the foundation in a thoughtful way. But I think we're self-aware enough about our business plan that I think we'll avoid that trap, but that might be the biggest trap. Now, from that, it sounds like you've kind of had this game plan or roadmap sort of thing in mind for quite a while. But, you know, the company itself was only announced a little bit before that Altius merger. Was that something that you kind of wanted to play the cards slow and make sure that you had all your, you know, your I's dotted and your T's crossed before you announced everything? Or, you know, what went into that decision to kind of keeping yourself under the radar and developing this plan before hitting public? Yeah, I think it was primarily assembling the team and making sure everybody from a timing standpoint was ready to go. But it is interesting. I think we're,

you know, we formed the entity on August 15th. So we're now essentially three and a half months or four months into the business itself. But I think from a business plan standpoint, we're well over a year into the business plan because we were able to get so much done so quickly. And I would anticipate we'll have a couple more transactions to announce here very soon. So things are really coming together very quickly. Now, I know you don't want to talk about what any of those are or even really hint at them just for the sake of everything that's happening. Are there any areas of the market that you sense are not for Voyager? Maybe that's a better way to get at this. What are the parts

of the market that you don't think this model would fit for? You know, I think just pure financial plays, Anthony. We've seen a lot of transactions or companies that are just great investments, but ironically, they're not good fits for us because if they don't increase the overall master capability of Voyager, I'll just give you a quick example. I saw an aerospace company recently that has a better way of creating rivets, for lack of a better word, but basically a fixture company, great company and great investment. And I'm sure whoever's going to invest in that or buy that company is going to do very well,

but that doesn't excite me and it doesn't fulfill our vision. So I would say pure financial transactions. I would say on launch, we will have a launch capability. There's no doubt about that. But I'm not in a hurry to build that for a couple of reasons. One is it's pretty capital intensive, as we all know. And secondly, I do think there's going to be a bit of a shakeup in launch, you know, within the next, call it 24 months. So I would rather sort of address that

24 months from now than, than right now. Yeah. That sounds, that sounds like a smart move for me. Uh, you know, there's definitely, we're in the era where all the small launch companies are either coming online or falling apart entirely. Uh, and it seems like we've still got a little bit more to go. It doesn't happen as quickly as people thought it would. But there were some signs this past year of that happening. So that to me sounds like a nice move on your part. So I fully support that. Thank you. Are there any other things about Voyager that we didn't talk about yet that you'd really like to discuss a little bit here before we wrap up? Yeah, I want to just reinforce the point I made earlier. I mean, I think this will be a

financial success. Obviously, I wouldn't spend my time on it and take investor money if we didn't think that was the case, but that's not the reason we're doing Voyager. We're doing Voyager because I think it's the next step for the industry to demonstrate how you can assemble market share and capability within the new space ecosystem. This is critical, within the new space ecosystem. And then ultimately have that publicly traded so that retail investors can own a piece of that new space race, if you will, in a fully integrated fashion. And then ultimately just do really cool missions. This is all about getting humans out to space. This is all about increasing our capability, doing things like settlement, space manufacturing, all the things we talk about and

get excited about. But if you look at the firms capable of doing that, they're not really excited about it. I said something to a colleague of mine here recently. I said, what the industry lacks or what the industry is suffering from is a mismatch between ambition and capability. There's a lot of incredibly ambitious people in space, but they typically don't have the capability. And those with the capability typically lack ambition in terms of what they want to do with it. So hopefully we can create with Voyager something that's fully capable and ambitious and do some really cool things. Wow, I'm definitely going to steal that quote, write it down, because that's something that is perfectly put for a lot of different scenarios that we talk about in the industry. That's a really nice way of putting that without being mean or anything, but that's a really nice way of phrasing it.

So I like that. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I'm inspired by a lot. I mean, there's a lot of amazing people in the industry. And I love the abundance thinkers in our industry, people who are looking at growing the pie and understand that collaboration floats everybody's boat. I just really admire people who think that way. And there's a lot of them. I'm probably most aligned with the Bezos Blue Origin model insofar as I am a Jerry O'Neill fan. Just coincidentally, we've made a movie on Jerry O'Neill. It's going to come out in the spring. And I do like Bezos' sort of vision of living and working in space and building infrastructure in space. I am aligned with that. And certainly he's put a lot of his

own capital to work in that. So I admire the vision that he has. And of course, it's really Jerry's vision, but I admire the fact that he's implementing it. Yeah. And certainly the timelines there kind of match what you're saying with something that is a little bit more longer term focused and not quick cash grabs and that kind of thing. And definitely can sense that from the way you've been talking about it thus far. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And of course, what Elon's doing, I admire as well. I just think it's interesting that I'm sure this has been said on your podcast before, but if you just look at everything he's doing in his life, it's all aligned around his vision of Mars, right? I mean, I'm convinced the Boring Company is about

building tunnels on Mars and Hyperloop is transportation on Mars and Tesla is solar on Mars. And you have to give him credit. He's very fixed on Mars and he's doing everything within his life to fulfill that vision. And I admire the tenacity of his vision. I think that's probably the best way to say it. Yeah, that's awesome. And I'm glad that there are people like you out in the world that are working on this kind of stuff. So thank you so much for filling us all in on what Voyager's up to. I'm sure, like you said, there's going to be some news coming soon that we'll be talking

about here on MECO. So thank you so much, Dylan, for coming on the show. I really enjoyed talking with you. And we will have a bunch of links in the show notes to everything that Voyager is working on if people want to read up there. But is there anywhere else that you'd like to make sure that people go? If they're just finding out about Voyager from this conversation,

where should they head to to follow along with what you're working on? You know, great question. Follow us on Twitter, for sure, or LinkedIn, pretty much all the media, including some interviews on CNBC and Yahoo Finance and all that are all posted on there. So those would be good places to go to sort of get the latest and greatest. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Dylan. And I am sure that we'll be talking soon. Great. Thank you, Anthony. Appreciate it.

Thank you so much again to Dylan for coming on the show. It's awesome to hear from people that have a vision for space that is so coherent. A lot of times you don't hear that. You just kind of hear these random mission statements or very vague ideas. And it's cool to hear kind of the overall vision of what someone's going for with a new company and a new take on things. So it's really interesting to hear directly from them. I'm sure as they announce new acquisitions, we'll be talking a lot about who they're acquiring, what they're going to be doing in space,

and what their vision is as it comes together with that collection of companies. Before we get out of here for the day, I need to say a huge thank you to everyone who made this episode possible. There are 352 of you supporting Main Engine Cutoff every single month. Head over to mainenginecutoff.com slash support if you would like to join that crew.

And this episode was produced by 38 executive producers. Chris, Pat, Matt, George, Brad, Ryan, Nadeem, Peter, Donald, Lee, Chris, Warren, Bob, Russell, John, Moritz, Joel, Jan, David, Grant, Mike,

David, Mintz, Eunice, Rob, Tim Dodd, The Everyday Astronaut, Frank, Julian, Lars from Agile Space, Tommy, Adam, Grant, Mike, David, Mintz, Eunice, Rob, Tim Dodd, the Everyday Astronaut, Frank, Julian and Lars from Agile Space, Tommy, Adam, Sam, and six anonymous executive producers. Thank you all so much for making this episode possible. And all of your support has been incredible. We've seen a lot of numbers ticking up lately. So I think it's going well over there on Patreon. If you're not a member yet, if you go over and join there, $3 or more a month, you get access to headlines. Every weekend, I go through the headlines of the week,

talk about every story in space, small, large, whatever, give you my thoughts on them, give you a little analysis that might not come up here on the main podcast. So it's a great way to get a little extra podcast in your life and to support what we're doing here on Miko.

So thank you all so much for your support. And with that, that's all we've got here today. Now I'll be back pretty soon in your feed with another really fun interview that I did this past week as well. So check that out on Monday. They'll be posting that 20-minute interview or something with TS Kelso of Celeste Track.

So get pumped for that. And until then, thank you all so much. I will talk to you soon.