The Diet Crimes of Metabolife
00:00What do you have?I'm not tagging us in.I was hoping I could just do that and you wouldn't notice.You thought I wouldn't notice?The problem is I literally don't know what metabolife is.Is it a shake?No, it's a, it's a pill.It's a diet supplement.
00:26Ah, okay.podcast. I can't express to our listeners how many weeks of thinking about it.I really had to do more than a month. I could have Googled at any moment.Okay. Tell me if this is problematic. Welcome to maintenance phase. The podcast that will helpyou lose 10 pounds, but you will be grinding your teeth for days. Honestly, yes. Is that thetwist of the episode that I spoil it? You lucked out. Because it's methamphetamine. I'm Aubrey Gordon.I'm Michael Hobbs. If you'd like to support the show, you can do that at Patreon.dot com slash maintenance face.
01:02Oh, the tiny repeating machine is back.Or you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts.It's the same audio content.Yeah, there he is.Michael.Aubrey.Today, we are talking about one of the most popular diet pills of the sort ofY2K era, 90s into Y2K.
01:23The name of it is Metabolife 356.Wait.Are they wrong about the number of days?the year. No, that is exactly the thought that I had every time I saw the fucking name,Mike. I was like, do you mean 365? Do you mean every day? Do you mean metabolife every day?Is that because you get nine cheat days? Though like you can do it 365 days? Once a month,you can just go nuts. 356 was the number that the lab assigned it when they were formulating it.It's the name of the founder, John 356. We are beginning our story in the mid-90s. By this point,
01:58the 80s and 90s sort of fitness craze has grown into a massive industry.This is the era of buns of steel, of stop the insanity, of sweating to the oldies.This is also a time when the popularity of MLMs are on the rise.Oh, yeah.At this point, the burgeoning wellness industry is championing supplements and vitaminsbecome much more widely used.They sort of move from like a thing.that crunchy granola hippies do to a much more mainstream thing.
02:33This is when we get Flintstones vitamins and that kind of thing, right?Oh, yeah.And anxieties about weight are on the rise, mostly in an individual way at this pointand in sort of a cosmetic way.Yeah.So, Michael, I'd like you to imagine this with me.It's 1994.You're watching TGIF.
02:51And between an ad for Slim Fast and maybe like a bop-it.Are those snap bracelets that killed like 3,000 children?You see this ad.With drug abuse spiraling, the federal government has created special units to combatwhat they believe could be a more serious problem.It's like soldiers like tooling up, like getting their gear together.Yeah, it looks like a scene from heat.Yeah, yeah, yeah.
03:25Yeah.The action is the juice.Okay, they're breaking into a house, they're like swat teaming into this.like giant McMansion.They're disarming the security system.There's some night vision footage.It's all very serious, very Osama bin Laden.Oh, oh, gosh, hey, it's only vitamins.
03:50What the hell?It's only vitamins.The FDA is conducting raids against natural vitamin users,but vitamins are not drugs.This harassment must stop.Vitamin C, you know, like in oranges.Protect your right to use vitamins.Call Congress now.
04:07What?Okay, this is a bizarre ad.So they're breaking into a house,the SWAT team going in and then it's Mel Gibson.Jump scare.Gremlin surprise.It's Mel Gibson.In the kitchen, in a bathrobe, like, I guess putting vitamins in his water or something or
04:22like taking a vitamin and they like, they're arresting him.Putting vitamins in his water.Or like, whatever.I don't know it.Do you know how vitamins work?It's too early for this.And brain is not awake yet.Listener, it's 10.20 a.m.
04:35All righter, right.Right.Right.Don't unmask me.But it's like they're basically lying to you here in creating a scenario that I assume does not actually exist.No, not one single solitary case that I'm aware of of anyone's house getting broken into for possession of vitamin C.Yeah, vitamin Fucking C, which has been on the market for like many decades at this point.This is an ad that is bankrolled by the supplement industry designed to astroturf the idea that supplements are overregulated and that.
05:10the government is on the precipice of some really perilous overreach, right?Yeah.There's a little bit of backstory here.In the 80s and early 90s, Congress had considered a number of bills that would have increasedFDA oversight and requirements of supplement manufacturers.One of them would have standardized labeling for supplements and would have required ingredientdisclosures at like a more detailed level.Oh, tyranny.
05:37That's actual government tyranny.No one was talking about raids.Right.No one was talking about confiscating supplements.No one was talking about charges for possession of supplements.They were talking about a label that tells you what's in it.It's so funny, like, RFK Jr's whole fucking thing is like pushing back.It's like the conspiracy of big pharma and stuff.
05:58But it's like the supplement makers are such fucking scammers, dude.Yep.They don't even have to have fucking vitamins and their vitamins.They can just sell you anything.Those sort of coordinated lobbying efforts in the industry first really borefruit with the passage of the dietary supplement health and education act.I've been saying D-Shea.D-Shea away, as they always say on you cause redress.
06:25They're talking about drug relations.The D-Shea recategorized dietary supplements as food instead of drugs.Okay.So it was drafted primarily to do one thing, to define dietary supplements andexempt them not only from the FDA's drug approval process, but from an FDA approval process at all.So supplement makers do not have to prove that an ingredient is safe before taking it to market.Love this.And it meant that the FDA could only restrict a supplement ingredient if it posed a, quote,
07:06significant and unreasonable risk if used as instructed.So the whole point of the law is to give the FDA less power over this.It is functionally like almost complete deregulation of the supplement industry.Yeah.You don't know that what they put in there is what they said they put in there.Yeah.You don't know that it's not contaminated with something like lead.Yeah.
07:28You don't know that it is as potent or as non-potent as they say it is.You're just trusting Gwyneth with like your long.term health. And Gwyneth is like the best case scenario, honestly. It was signed into law byPresident Clinton in October of 1994. D. Shea was co-sponsored by Tom Harkin, a Democrat from Iowa,and Orrin Hatch, notorious trash can, Oran Hatch, Republican from Utah, one of the longestserving trash cans. Trash cans. In Congress. For both Harkin and Hatch, both the Democrat and theRepublican. One of their largest campaign contributors for both of them was previous maintenancephase subject and weight loss super MLM herbal life. Oh, really? Hundreds and hundreds of thousands of
08:19dollars. What was the like stated argument for this? That supplement makers should be able to like do whatthey need unencumbered by government incursion. It's just like hollow anti-regulation. Yeah, they should be free toinnovate and what a little it's like general. God. Deregulation shit. And it's like 1995.right so we're like coming in hot off of uh reagan and hw bush but think about think about how muchless often mel gibson is getting rated in his home for having a vitamin supplement in the middlethe night this is the other thing that i do want to say about the fucking mel gibson ad is like that is alsoindicative of how much fucking money they had no i know arguably the biggest movie star in the world in1994 yeah and they are hiring him for a tv ad yeah that in itself you should call congress and being
09:06Like whatever they want, don't give it to them.These people have too much fucking money.Listen, sugar tits.Yeah.So this is the environment in which metabolife goes to market.Okay.It was a multi-level marketing company that like herbal life before it sold herbal weight loss supplements, quote unquote.That's always a good sign when like you can't buy it at a store or from like a normal place.
09:30You have to like call up somebody and like their website doesn't say what they do or what it comes.That's how you know it works.friend from high school asked you to sell it. It was started by Michael Blevins and Michael Ellis,two dudes from the greater San Diego area who had been childhood friends. They're not gays,are they? I don't have to be mad at gays. No, they're not homosexuals. Because then I would have tosupport it, especially if they were under 5'8. You'd just start yelling, representation matters.Short gay Michaels, I'm sorry. At the time that the dietary supplement health and education actpasses. Ellis is bouncing around from one job to another. He reportedly worked for a time as a
10:09chauffeur, a real estate agent, and a private investigator. Oh, no. Oh, no is correct, Michael.I'm just like red flag, red flag, red flag. Again, there are two co-founders. There's Michael Ellis andMichael Blevins. Michael Ellis went on to write a book about Metabolife. And he also became theface of the company. So we're going to focus more on.him because we've heard more from him.In the book, he writes abouta couple of his prior jobsin the 1980s before founding
10:40Metabolife. The firstis as apolice officer for the National CityPolice Department near San Diego.Okay. He writes atsome length about how competitivethe application process was, thatthere were 300 applicants for three
10:56open jobs and that he madethe cut. But he alsosays he just needed the money. He just needed themoney and that, quote, a job with a gun sounded interesting.Cool.You had me at I wanted a gun.That's it.I want to buy your weight loss supplements.
11:13I'm already in.When he talks about the neighborhoods he policed, it is also not great.He has long passages about how run down the streets and buildings are.He goes on at length about the scourge of street gangs that are predominantly Latino.On one of those calls to the quote unquote.gangbanger war zone.Nice.He ends up chasing someone who he says starts threatening to stab him and his partner with a
11:41screwdriver.Okay.Michael Ellis goes on to shoot this person who collapses and stops moving.According to Ellis, this young man is permanently disabled as a result.Is he telling this as like, I'm a hero story?This is his story of being like, this is how I learned being a cop was not for me.But it's very odd that in the book, he only really talks about the impacts on his own emotional state.Right, right.
12:09He doesn't really grapple with like the life this dude could have lived or the effect on his family or the implications for the community.Right.There's no existential anything.It's like, I shot someone in there.I felt really bad and I didn't want to feel bad anymore.I can believe a pathological individualist would go on to sell weight loss supplements.In 1990, after leaving the police force, Michael Ellis faces.drug charges.
12:32Wait, what?So he was charged because he had rented a house for the express purpose of cooking meth in it.My meth joke is true?Your meth joke is so much truer than you realize.Wait, he's literally cooking fucking meth and then he goes out to sell a weight loss pill?He and Michael Blevins, his future co-founder, rented a house, hired a cook and attempted to makemeth.They hired a meth cook?
12:58They hired a meth cook.hire a meth cook writing the ad on Craigslist.It sounds like he was like neither one of them was very good at being a drug kingpin.Ellis rented a house that the owners were trying to put on the market.So they kept getting things set up to cook meth and then they'd get a notice from the landlordthat like, hey, some buyers are coming by.You have to put a blanket over the meth lab.They have to like dismantle and put it all away.
13:27That's like the sitcom version of Breaking Bad.Like, we gotta hide the meth laugh again.It's just Heisenberg shrugging and looking into the camera, like, what?Dude, that's so funny that, like, he couldn't even cook the meth himself.He had to delegate it.He, like, it was such a calculated plan.Like, I'm gonna be a meth kingpin that he, like, hired it.It's like opening a bakery or something.
13:48Well, now I have to hire some bakers.To their credit, both Blevins and Ellis turned themselves in and pled out.So the cops eventually found them.And then they were like, yes, we did this.got a plea deal. Again, this is a place where we don't have digitized records of other reportingfrom the time so much. Wait, so in his book, he says, for no reason, he just marched into thepolice station and said, hello, I'm cooking meth. He was like, we had a conversation about it. Wedecided it was the right thing and we wanted to be like upstanding guy. And so we turned to ourselves
14:20in and I was like, that didn't happen. A couple of fucking San Diego dirt bags are turning themselveslike, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Oh, excuse me, officer.Excuse me, I stole something yesterday.I just want to let you know that I broke the law so you can punish me.I cannot tell a lie.Yeah.He must have gotten caught.Michael Ellis is sentenced to probation and Michael Blevins is sentenced to prison as the guy
14:43who hired the cook and transported the meth.So while Michael Blevins is in prison, Michael Ellis starts metabolife.Okay.He's like, with my experience in meth, I went into diet supplements.Yep.Correct.So the story that Michael Ellis tells about this sort of in the press throughout and in his bookis that he developed metabolife while his father was undergoing cancer treatment to help him
15:11combat fatigue and negative symptoms.Does he have any background in chemistry or anything?No.He's just like a random guy.He's a cop, a chauffeur, a PI.What does that mean?Like I developed a, how would you even do that as like a random civilian?He doesn't say.
15:26Yeah.In 1992, he starts selling it.Initially, he starts marketing it as a bodybuilding supplement at gyms in the sort of Gold's Gym era.And it's a weight loss thing or it's a muscle building thing?Right now he's saying it's a muscle building thing.But that doesn't work.So he goes, it's for weight loss.Those are opposite things, which is very funny.
15:46One of them helps you put on weight.The other one helps you take off weight.Correct.Yeah.The active ingredient is marketed as Mah Huang, a Chinese herbal supplement.That's true.That's an actual herb.That's an actual herb.
15:58Metabolife uses Mahon as.an appetite suppressant, but historically in Chinese medicine, it was used as a cold remedy.Okay.The historical herbal use of Mahong is to make a tea out of the leaves that are not distilleddown and crushed into a capsule and all of that kind of shit.Metabolife distributors are telling you to take this every day.Right.That's why I take mucinex every day to make me feel a little bit healthier.
16:21Right.It would be like if you were like, I'm taking NyQuil every fucking day of my life.This is also, it's such, it's so funny thinking back on this time when you could just say like,it's an ancient Chinese ingredient.And everybody like, ooh.That is the entire herbal life model, right?And the entire metabolife model.We now have two MLMs that are just like doing the full, like, ancient Chinese secret fucking bullshit.
16:43Totally.Metabolife distributors tell really extraordinary stories about its effectiveness in weight loss, eating whatever you want, still losing weight.Amazing.Wow.I feel incredible.They also brag after the past.of the D-Sheh, they advertise that we're the only weight loss supplement that's lab testedfor safety.
17:07Oh, what?But also, they can just fucking say that because there's no regulation.They can just fucking lie.Yes, correct, correct, correct.And you called it, it's both Mahwong, 12 milligrams of Mahwong in a metabolite cappletand 40 milligrams of Guarana concentrate.That's caffeine, baby.Wait, is it, Guarana?
17:26So it's about one espresso shot worth of caffeine.As the business is getting started as an MLM, Michael Blevins, he who is in prison, starts recruitingdistributors in prison.Wait, really?Use your networks, baby.Get those Facebook messages out.I had real conflicted feelings about this.It's an MLM, so it is garbage from top to bottom.
17:51They are selling a product that is garbage from top to bottom.and also famously, the people who make money in an MLM are the first people to get in the door.So in this case, the prisoners got, like, rich off of it because they're like the first 10 people.So I was like, is this redistribution of wealth?And they're like, no, they're recruiting from their fucking networks.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.They're fucking over people that they know.And the first 10 prisoners might make money, but the next 90 prisoners don't.
18:16Once Metabolife launches as a weight loss supplement and as an MLM in 1995, the business growsreally big, really fast. In the first couple of years, it's profits. It's already turning a profit in themillions. No way. In the first like two years. In 1999, just four years after the launch,they report $1 billion in sales. I guess they just got in early after this law got passed.There's probably like a vacuum that they were able to fill and just making these insane healthclaims before essentially everybody started doing that. It was a crowded market. Yes. AndIt's not the only one using Mahwong.It's one of the most popular ones, but it's not the only one.
19:00There are also brands on the market.You may remember these.I definitely do xenadrine, EFX.No.Hydroxycutt.I may have even taken that one for a while.And one called, and I quote, herbal ecstasy.It'll make you lick someone else's face, but it's herbal.
19:16Wait, I'm looking, I googled.I want to see their logo.It's bad.At this time.Oh, it's so bad.Metabo Life. It's like bright yellow and there's like seven different fonts happening.There's like a little gold seal and red font and it just says, die it.Yeah. Herbal formula to enhance your and then it's like the font goes up like 50 sizes and it says,
19:38diet. Oh, and provide energy asterisk, asterisk. It's a super small print.All of these brands also get a big boost in 1997, a big windfall.From the release of entrapment starring Catherine Gio Jones.Yeah, yeah. Everybody wanted to look like her,snaked through those lasers.They did their little lasers.No, the boost that they get in 1997is that Fen-Fen-Fel off the market.
20:00Oh, right.So Fenn-Fen, miracle drug that stopped people's hearts.And the thing that we have done a previous episode on,if you would like to know that story,go back and listen to the Fenn-Fen episode.It is kind of a miracle that with a single pill,you can stop your heart.Incredible.
20:15He's been working on it for so long.So amazing.That winds up being quite a boon to the industry, right?You've got all these people who were on Fenn-Fenwho are really.dejected that it's like off the market because it didn't stop their heart what the fuck yeah yeah and they'relooking for something else and actually these things you can get cheaper and at the gas station you don'teven need to get a doctor involved you can get it from your neighbor yeah so these are now some of
20:38the biggest sort of like pill makers in the country right and they have a bunch of fucking money sotheir ads are all over tv yeah so we are going to watch a metabolitead from 2000.Fuck yes.You want to buy some metabitis?Is it laboratory tested for safety?No, but it's cheaper.How about some metabolite.
21:07Does it have the same proprietary herbal blendas Metabolite 3.56?No, but it's got all the same herbs.I don't think.Well, what about a watch?You want to buy a watch?Don't be fooled by imitators.Metabolite is number one for a reason.
21:19Laboratory tested for safety and clinically sure.There's an ugly label.It's an ugly label.It's a weight loss.Only available through Metabolife retailers andDistributors. Call for the location nearest you.So for the listener, what is happening is that there is a guy wearing a trench coat who openshis trench coat and it's lined with like fake bottles of metabolife.
21:39He's up late at night, like meticulously sewing the extra pockets into his trench coat.He's like, I got to be able to open the flap.This drug dealer has dedication.Yeah, so they're doing this weird thing where they're like implying that their competitorsare like, A, shady and B, like drugs, and they are not drugs.It's so funny for them to complain about like fly by night.The counterfeit producers.They're like, take it from us.
22:07A fucking cop who disabled someone, but also a guy who doesn't cook the meth, but does hire the guy who cooks the meth.Because you just made this up too.You're just like, you're just as much of a drug dealer as people selling counterfeit metatatatMeta life.Well, Michael, the drug dealer plot thickens.Ooh.Because the active ingredient, Mahon, is better known in English as Ephedra.Wait, what's a Fedra?
22:32Effedra is the name for the plant.The plant has sub-compounds called alkaloids called ephedrin and pseudoephedrine.Oh, that's the meth shit.That's the shit you can't buy with that ID anymore.Yep, correct.Dude, that's the shit whenever you're sick.If you get like, what is it called, Mucinex Part D or some shit, it's afull-on crack cocaine.
22:55It's like the shit that you have to go to the store and like ask for the thing behind thecounter.I did this once because the, uh, suggested dose or whatever is two of them.And I was like, I've never taken this before.I'll take one.I felt like I could like lift a fucking Volkswagen.Yes.I'm like, they tell you to take two of these fucking things.
23:10So for Americans who bought cold medicine before like the mid 2000s, you will recognizethe brand name Sudafed.You can still get it.It's behind the counter.Yeah, yeah.It's short for pseudoephedrine.That's what it was.In addition to its Chinese medicine use as a cold remedy,
23:29it was also used in the U.S. for the same purposes.Until the 1980s, ephedrin was an over-the-counter cold and allergy medicine.I bet it clears out your fucking sinuses.Your heart is beating like 300 times a minute.Yeah, so ephedrin does, in fact, constrict your blood vesselsand speed up your heart.For people with asthma, that means.that it helps reduce the swelling in their airways and can genuinely be helpful for respiratory
23:59stuff. But it was ultimately banned by many, many states because of the safety risks andthe risk of dependence. And it was also the basis for cooking meth, right? Yes. Pseudythedrin as one ofthe sort of subcompounds was absolutely like a key ingredient in cooking meth, which is what ultimatelygot pseudoephedrine banned. That's why you have to show your ID because you'vecan't just go into the store and buy like 300 packets of it because then they assume you'recooking a shitload of meth. And I believe it's not sold in the EU at all anymore.There was like a high risk of dependence. Yeah. There are major safety risks for sellingsomething over the counter that speeds up your heart. Are you kidding me? I only took half the
24:40recommended dose. What if you took twice the recommended dose? I mean, it felt like you could reallyhurt yourself. I was like, as soon as I took it, I was like, why is this legal? You know, we mentionedthat this is predominantly used as a respiratory thing in the U.S. in the U.S. in the,the 80s, I will say that they, honest to God, learned about the weight loss effects ofEphedra during asthma research. So they're doing some research into the effects ofephedrin on asthma. And the researchers are like, man, these asthma patients are getting real skinny.They're tripping balls and they're like fighting and like biting each other all the time.But look how trim they are. Very sveled, skinny, many. God.
25:18that. On the less intense end, ephedron users can experience jitteriness, anxiety, and insomnia.Yeah.On the more intense end, ephedra does increase your heart rate. It does increase your blood pressure,which in turn can lead to cardiac events, stroke, all kinds of acute and really scary things.And on top of all of that, ephedron users may even experience.hallucinations, seizures, and psychosis.Nice.Also, there are people with ephedra allergies who might experience, like, their throat closing
25:57up, hives, like that kind of thing.And on top of all of that, ephedron, like the methamphetamine that it is then used to make,people can develop a tolerance really quickly to a small amount, and they need to up their dose.So very quickly, in order to get the same effects, people have to take.take more and more and more.And then you're talking about long-term health and side effects and everything else.Yes.You rebrand this thing that is just like a pharmaceutical.
26:26You rebrand it as like ancient Chinese medicine and people think they're taking something likenatural and herbal.But I mean, everything is natural when you think about it.There are lots of parts of the natural world.Not to get all Werner Herzog on it, but like there are lots of parts of the naturalworld that are trying to kill you.It's all just marketing to be like, ooh, it's Mahwang.It's very natural and ancient.
26:46It sounds like it just fucking drugs.You're just like taking drugs.Yes, and the ingredient listed on metabolife isn't just Mahwong. It's a Mahong concentrate.Right, so it's just like, it's a fucking drug. You're taking Sudafed. Yeah, you're taking ephedron. Also, didn't you say earlier that metabolife is Mahon and caffeine, basically?Right. So, research found at the time that the combination of ephedra and caffeine marginally increased weight loss over ephedra alone, right?Well, yeah, probably. Fucking hell. Yeah. You're on.crack. But caffeinelike a Fedra
27:22also increases your heart rateand your blood pressure. It alsoincreases the likelihood of those side effectsand particularlythe like vascular and cardiac effectsright. So addingcaffeine to this is really likepouring lighter fluid on the risk
27:38side of it. Right. And also this issomething that you would want on like a warning labelof like this is habit forming. You canfucking overdose on this stuff. I mean you can overdoseon caffeine. Yes. Again, thisIt's like the perfect argument for the fucking FDA to regulate this shit.Michael, leave me with my Panera lemonade in peace.Yeah, exactly.
27:56You can like really hurt yourself.So unsurprisingly, knowing all of this, adverse reaction reports started to roll inwithin just a year or two of Metabolife's launch, right?Metabolife comes onto the market as a weight loss supplement in 1995, and by 1997,there's this massive wave of adverse reaction reports.It's like I only lost three pounds and I murdered my entire family.Jesus.So the early adverse reactions that come in show reports of sudden hypertension in people without existing cardiovascular conditions.
28:34As with herbal life before it, a lot of people didn't report their adverse reactions, right?Some assumed that because it was listed as herbal and because metabolife touted that they were lab tested for safety.safety, that it couldn't hurt them, so they didn't think to report that. They're just like,weird mystery hypertension, right? Others assumed that their weight already put them at ill health,so they blamed their weight and not the medication. Again, Metabolife is launched in 1995.By 1996, multiple states are already proposing full or partial bans. Yes. On Ephedra.It's fucking crack. It's crack. When Fenfen is taken off the market, it's september.And just immediately thereafter,
29:21Ephedra supplements like Metabolife start marketing themselves as quote-unquote herbalfen-fen.Yeah.By November, two months later, the FDA is already issuing official warnings abouta Fedra use and the dangers of Ephedra.Man.Still, the product continues to grow.The business continues to grow.
29:39And by 1999, the FDA reports over 1,000 adverse reactions.Man.And 35 of those are deaths.Wait, what? People died?35 people have died in four years that the FDA is tracking.What?Yes, correct.How do we pull Fenn Fenn?
29:57We didn't pull this shit.This is fucking crazy.So, of course, this leads to a wave of lawsuits.There are class action suits from consumers.There are suits from distributors, many of whom are also consumers.Yeah.But there are also lawsuits from Metabolife.Wait, what?
30:16They start suing people.Wait, who?So as these adverse events grow and more states consider bans on a Fedra, so too does the negative media coverage as it fucking should.Yeah.Right.And when these negative news stories crop up, Metabolife often files suit for defamation.Again, great sign that you're running a real business.You're selling a useful product of people.
30:45In his book about metabolife, Michael Ellis writes about this wave of lawsuits and his reactions are nutso.Send it, send it, send it, send it, send it.No, I'll send you a quote in a minute, but just as a preview, he has a passage and he talks about his power combo to prep for depositions.Is it like seven metabolites?It's a bunch of metabolife pills and dip.Like spinning into the cup and like a little room.For our younger listeners, dip is like zins, but without the like tea bag.So gross, dude.
31:24He does talk in the book about how much dip you can put in your lip without it showing up on camera in the deposition video.He's like doing that like with the brown liquid coming out of his mouth.He talks like, he's like, I would check my lip sometimes and feel if there was like a bump.No, we're good.Also think about how psychotic you would feel.If you're also, if you're on caffeine and like dollar store meth and fucking tobacco,your little heart is just like a little shrew, like, br-r- right.I imagine the effects being somewhere on the cocaine spectrum.
31:58I would not want to give it a deposition in that state.Disaster.Someone asked you like, what's your address and you start talking about your screenplay idea?So I just sent you a little passage from the book of him talking about his attorneys and depositions.I'm going to add little spitting sounds.No, don't.Please don't.a couple seconds.
32:17I don't like it.He says,most of the attorneysI've met in my long stringof legal battlesfall into one of two categories.Either they work their asses offor they do the opposite
32:26of work their asses off.Oh, he's a good writer.Wow, this is just singing.He really paints a picture.The reason they could existin either of these waysis that they've basicallycreated their own industry.
32:37In other words,the legal world is so complex,so convoluted that you now needan attorney for everythingfrom defending yourselfagainst trumped-up lawsuits,to filing paperwork at the office.Lawyers just help you get through the fog.
32:50A fog they created.Throw on the fear that gets propagated by the justice systemand you can't help but want to hire a whole team of lawyers.That's the ultimate job security right there.I love how you're also just like a dick to your own lawyers.Like, oh, what I do you for?Oh, my God.The way he writes about, he's like, one of my lawyers is real fat.
33:08He was real baby hewing type.Oh, good stuff.Wow.Yeah.But also, he thinks lawyers are griff.Yeah, I know. I know. How dare they?He thinks everyone is grifting all the time.It is a self-justification narrative, right?
33:27Yeah. Like, I'm just doing what everyone's doing.Also, lawyers only have ultimate job security. If you're constantly getting sued for people dying.The reason they have job security is, in fact, metabolites.Maybe if you sold a product that, like, helps people or, like, adds to their life rather than killing them, maybe you wouldn't have this problem.All of that legal activity.increases media attention, which publicizes some more troubling aspects ofEphedra products.There's more and more media from more and more outlets.
33:59It is frankly too many to sue.Yeah, yeah.And that includes this 1999 coverage from the New York Times talking to a researcherwho tested a Fedra products on the market.That researcher's name is Dr. Gurley.Dr. Gurley said most effigre users who become ill.can blame their own stupidity for going well over their recommendations on labels.But he and his colleagues have tested the potency of a dozen ephedra products
34:23and found that the amount of active ingredient in some brands varied by as much as 130%.Most contained less ephedrine than the labels claimed, but Dr. Gurley is still troubled.As a consumer and a pharmaceutical scientist, it was an eye-opening experience.He said, you can't trust what's on the label.Yeah, dude, they're varying by as much as 130%.So you might be getting 10 milligrams or like 23?Yes.That's huge.
34:49Also, the fact that most of them are under what the label claimed is also bad.I mean, like, it's not like people need more ephedrum, but it's like, yeah, if you're selling 10 milligrams of something, you should have fucking 10 milligrams in it.So by the end of the 90s, there's a growing number of adverse reactions, a growing number of deaths, a growing list of side effects.It's not just the sort of jitteriness and hypertension stuff.It's cardiac events.It's psychosis.And that is when 2020 decides to film a piece about ephedra and metabolife.Okay.
35:21In 1999, 2020 filmed 72 minutes of interview with Michael Ellis for this piece.The segment they run is under 15 minutes and it includes about one minute of Ellis's interview.In the press, Ellis says that the interview felt, quote, more like a deposition.Because you were dipping.Because you had...A deposition.That's what I called.Because I'm getting so much.
35:49So he, after the interview, he was like, uh-oh, the fix is in.This is going to be a hit piece.So Metabolife cooked up a wild strategy.You can't say cooked up in this episode.Oh, sorry.Sorry.It's like Zing.2020 recorded the interview and filmed it.
36:06So did Metabolife.This was like a relatively common practice at the time.Yeah.They were afraid that the edit was going to be unfurbed.favorable. So they came up with like a pretty wild and innovative solution for 1999 purposes.They decide to upload the uncut interview on a standalone website. This has become like morecommon since then. And then they sink two million dollars into an ad campaign buying full pagenewspaper ads in the post and the times and TV spots, including some TV spots during 2020.
36:44That's actually kind of good, okay.Being like, go to this website and see the full uncut interview.Right.The website, Michael, is television interview.com.What?Dude, sit on that domain.That domain's probably worth millions.I should also say Michael Ellis's website after all of the Metabolife stuff is like
37:03MJ Ellis1.com.Real Michael Ellis.com.When the interview airs, it's focused on metabolife's claim that it is quote-unquote labtested for safety. As it turns out and as 2020 reports, their quote-unquote studies have extremelysmall sample sizes. They have high dropout rates. And in one case, they couldn't account for thecontents of the bottles in what was supposed to be a blinded trial. We think we're giving youmedieval life. We're not sure. These meth cooks can't do anything right. Ellis in the book writes
37:41about the 2020 interview and his account is bananas.The tone is 100% like the fix was in from the beginning.Yeah.The chapter title on this scenario is called hindsight is 2020.Got him.He writes about sort of every aspect of it.He's like, these fuckers are so shady.For example, he talks about like the interviewer from 2020 is getting in makeup for
38:07TV and Ellis is like, who's going to do my makeup?Is there somebody to do my makeup?And the interview is like, no.Okay.And Ellis writes, I get it.I thought he's Kennedy and I'm Nixon.I don't know, dude.Or you could sell a product that doesn't kill people.
38:21I don't know.Or you could do that.You have a billion dollars in sale.You could hire a makeup person.You could get some concealer.You could do it.You could go to Sephora.He also says that a bunch of Metabolife staff came to watch the filming of the interview.
38:35Okay.And that they burst into applause after filming.Yes.Because Ellis was so good and he made the 2020 interviewer look so bad.Why didn't you put that on your TV?He takes issue with the editing.He's like, we recorded 72 minutes and they only aired one minute.And I was like, do you know how editing works?
38:54Yeah, yeah, yeah.In the book, he writes, quote, I guess everything else just made me look too good to air.Yeah.The entire segment ran for 14 minutes.So in his head, he thought it was going to be a full hour on metabolite.You're like, we're going to be a live interview with you, just like a verbatim interview.Yeah, like a sitting fucking president.Like, we're just going to dedicate an hour.
39:17Also, does he say that it's not true?Like, they made substantive allegations against him about, like, the lab testing and stuff.Because ultimately, the interview doesn't really matter.If the allegations that they're making are true, then like, what is the interview even supposed to fucking say?It's very funny because there are some press pieces that come out after this where they talk to Michael Ellis and they're like,when they said this thing, do you think that?was fair and he was like, oh, sure.And they're like, what about this thing?
39:43When they made this allegation, was that a fair thing to go after?And he was like, well, it's true.He's like, yeah, our product is not testing.But anyway.There was one incident that he wrote about where I was like, okay, so now he's just lying.So I'm going to send you a passage from his book.He's talking about Mr. Diaz in this.That's the interviewer from 2020.
40:04It says, Mr. Diaz, we heard the producer say, would you like to meet Mr. Ellis'smother? Diyos turned around to glare at me. Fuck Mrs. Ellis, he said. And without another word,he stalked away. In one microscopic instant, my mood changed from triumphant to enraged. It tookevery ounce of my effort not to chase him down, grab him, and beat the hell out of him. I mean,who in his right mind would say something like that to an old woman, to a man's mother? For me,Diaz's slight was the turning point, the point when I decided that the media had harmed my familyfor long enough. From that moment on, I would remain on the offensive. I'd had enough rolling over.Yeah, when he said, fuck your mom to my face, I was like, that's it. This is a real thing that happened,
40:47and I'm super mad about it. Two things. One, I do not believe that this happened. There's no fuckingway this happened. And two, when were you rolling over? Yeah, yeah. When you were suing TV stations forcovering your product? I've also, I've been in situations where someone's like, do you want to meet my friend?Or like, do you want to say hi to my mom? And I, like, definitely don't want to.to do that. I'm not going to be like, fuck your mom.There's no way.There's no way an actual professional in a setting like this would say,fuck your mom. There's no way.
41:15The only way that that's coming out of my mouth is if your mom is like Christygnome. Yeah. So the 2020 piece, as it aired,included some interviews with doctors and researcherswho had researched metabolife.One of those doctors worked for Columbia University'shospital, St. Luke's Roosevelt Hospital.in the piece, he was asked a factual question,which was, did your research definitively prove that metabolife was safe?
41:46He said no.Okay.For Metabolife, that was unacceptable.Okay.They hired a private investigator.They dug up some allegations against one of his old supervisors who had beenalleged to have doctored research.Metabolife then reached out to 2020 to pass a,
42:06along and quote unquote, like, make sure you were aware, pretty heavily implying that this doctorwas in on the bad acts of his supervisor.Okay.They also start calling people at the hospital where he works.They say, again, we just want to make sure you knew that this guy was mixed up in thisshit.Like, you're fully just trying to get this guy fired.And also for this guy saying, like, a boilerplate thing, did you prove that it's safe?
42:31Any researcher would say no, because there's no way to prove that something is safe.Right.That is a factual statement.Yeah.Did one single study prove definitively that any substance was perfectly safe?Right.No.Any responsible scientist would answer it in that way.
42:46So on top of that, once again, they take out newspaper ads accusing this scientist of workingfor a competitor because he had also conducted research separately on Slim Fast.Oh, what?That's also normal.So they're like, he's trying to fix the market for Slim.Slim fast.He just was,that's like a normal.
43:08Right.And they're,so they're arguing that he's like an operative for Slim Fast,who's trying to undercut metabolite success is sort of the implication, right?It wasn't just scientists that they were doing this for it.They were hiring PIs on plaintiffs in their lawsuits.No way.And in his book,
43:27he alleges that many of them were feigning disability and feigning their reactions.Good stuff.Good stuff.He'd be like, they were walking around just fine.They seemed good to me.I saw the pictures.Oh, my God.So as you can tell, there's like trouble in paradise.
43:45All of that media attention leads to more government action.The FDA brings Michael Ellis in for questioning about the negative side effects of their products,which they downplay and about how many adverse reactions the company has heard about throughtheir customer service line.They say it's in the hundreds.that diverges sharply from the FDA's records, which are over a thousand, right?There are congressional hearings.Ellis is called to testify and he invokes his Fifth Amendment right to avoid self-incrimination.
44:19So he shows up, but he doesn't testify.And by 2002, the DOJ launches a criminal investigation into metabolife.Again, why do these companies still exist?They are trying to determine whether or not executives understood.the danger of their product and the risks that it posed to consumers.And by this point, according to FDA records,metabolife users have reported 95 heart attacks.Oh, wow.
44:4969 strokes.70 seizures.91 cases of high blood pressure.And 81 deaths.And that is what's reported.Is that bad?Is that bad?Is that bad?
45:03Is that bad?Is that bad?from a diet pill, from an over-the-counter diet pill.But how do those people look?But how do they look?Amazing.Are they like ropey?Still, that same year, the same year that the DOJ criminal investigation launches, the FDA
45:16declines to take action on a Fedra and says that they're waiting for more studies.While all of this is happening, the IRS is also investigating Michael Ellis for hundreds ofthousands of dollars of tax evasion.Oh, wow.Of course.Of course.So this comes to a head when the IRS raids one of Ellis's houses.and he depicts them in the book as absolute super villains.
45:39Yeah.He has different little pet names.He doesn't know the names of the agents who raid this house.One of them has a battering ram, so he calls him Rammy.And there's another one who he says he can smell alcohol on his breath.So he calls him drunky.That's not even good.He says that his wife was crying the whole time, which I absolutely believe.
46:04If my house got raided, I would cry and then barf and then cry and then barf and thencry.He writes, quote, when they had finished with the safe room, they searched every other room in thehouse beginning with the bedroom where drunky immediately started riffling through Monica'sunderwear drawer, holding each piece up and laughing.Ooh, he would say, look at this one.I wonder what it cost.Laughter.
46:31All of this happening right in front of my wife.It's like the least reliable narrator we've ever had.One million percent where he's like,who's like holding up his wife's underwear?I was like,if these guys are doing raids,they see shit that is so much more interesting than underwear.Yeah, there's no way.
46:50Yeah.They're not stopping to comment on like,this woman has underpants.This woman has a crotch.He also really leans into how the IRS agentsraiding his house were armed.At first,that gave me pause.
47:06IRS agents with guns is justkind of a wild fucking image.But then I learned what they found in theraid, which was a hidden safe witha million dollars in it and guns.No way. Heagain had been previously convicted of afelony or he pled guilty to a felony
47:22so he's barred from owning guns.Also a million dollars in cash in a safeis fucking crazy. Hereis his explanation.He says, at the time of my convictionback in 1991, I knew thatcould no longer possess firearms. So I asked a federal agent friend of mine what I should do with thetwo handguns that I already had. So I gave my guns to Monica, my girlfriend at the time, explaining to
47:44her that I couldn't have access to them no matter what. She promised that she would keep them away from me.And to that end, she bought a safe that only she would know the combination to. She put severalthings in there with the guns, including her paper copy of the safe's combination. Oh, don't put it inthe safe. Long story short, for the three or four years leading up to the raid, we couldn't access that safeeven if we wanted to.So there are a few things to note here.One, he's alleging that everything in the safe was his wife's and that the safe belonged tohis wife.
48:11What about the million in cash?Hers, according to him.She's frugal.She's very frugal.He's fully throwing his fucking wife under the bus.Although, I don't think that's like a useful loophole.Like, you do have access to guns, but they're your wives?I don't think that like works.
48:24And you bought them.Yeah.When you know that you can't do that.Yeah.And you're married.So everything that is hers is also yours, my wife.guy.Right.
48:34On for you.As part of the fallout from this, they raid Ellis's home.They also raid Blevins home.Michael Blevins goes back to prison on gun charges.Starts the company with a prison sentence.His exit from the company is also a prison sentence.And Michael Ellis ends up going to prison for lying to the FDA.It's actually so weird that he didn't just go to the federal authorities and tell them that
49:02he was breaking the law.Because that's what he usually does.So once again, as before Michael Ellis pled guilty, he was sentenced to six months in federal prison and a $20,000 fine.Wait, what?Six months and a $20,000 fine for a guy whose company made $1 billion in one year.But that's the thing of, like, convicting people for lying to the FDA or whatever when it's like the product that he sells is trash.Because the actual problem here is basically this previous law that means that they don't have to label anything.Correct.
49:31They are operating within the law, but the law is fucking bad.Yes, agree.Also, he dips.I feel like go to jail.Just go to jail for the dip.Just for your fucking tin of skull.Anytime you have it, if I catch you with it, you're going to jail.It also turns out through this sort of increased government oversight period that the company was falsifying its taxes, clicking its books, and concealing over $93 million in four years.
49:58Whoa.Okay.Their accountant, Michael Compton, admits to federal authorities that he did cook the books at the behest of company executives.No way.And when the story broke about the company's tax evasion, Compton died by suicide.No way.Michael Ellis writes about this in his book and he goes, it's a real shame.And that's it.
50:20That's it.Again, it's not unlike the shooting when he's at the police force where you're like,what a bummer.You don't seem to be grappling with this.With any level of depth, for hiding $93 million, the company is assessed a $600,000 fine.What?Come on, dude.After Michael Ellis is released from prison, he publishes his book.
50:44That's in 2008.I have not told you this whole time what the title of the book is.Okay.The title of the book is The Metabolife story, Colin, the Rape of Cinderella.What?What the fuck is that even mean?Like we were a Cinderella story.Oh, and they were raped by the IRS?
51:04And our company was raped by the federal government.That is rape.No.It has since, if you look for it now, it's still available as like an ebook or whatever.Okay.It now is called the Metabolife story, the rise and fall of an American success story or something like that.They're like, make it normal.Please be fucking normal.
51:24Give it a normal title, dude.Because that title is just like, oh, you're a nutcase.The final straw for Ephedra products comes when there is a high profile death.So far there have been many deaths from a Fedra products.And there is one from a public figure.So in 2003, Baltimore Orioles pitcher Steve Belcher heads to spring training in Florida.Since the last season, he has put on some weight.So he starts taking an effedra supplement.
51:58to lose weight.During spring training at 23 years old,Steve Belcher, a professional athlete,collapses and dies.23.Holy shit.As the reporting comes out about Steve Belcher's death,it comes along with,
52:16like, that reporting is like,actually, this isn't the only Ephedra incident for athletes.Another player for the Orioles,who had previously collapsed and been found unconscious,then disclosed that he had been takingAfedra supplements at the time.That's not even the only incident for the Orioles.There are also adverse reactions for Corey Stringer
52:37from the Minnesota Vikings.Devon Darling, a linebacker for Florida State,a college student.Like the list goes on.There are many, many more.That's wild.This is popping up in sports media,so it's no longer like government accountability reporting,
52:54and it's no longer like quote-unquote women's mediareporting. It's now getting in front of sports fans who are like, wait a minute, what the fuck?Sorry, what?Wait, how much is the meth that I can go to the store and buy?Right. Like, there's like a big outcry following this death. According to the Nutrition BusinessJournal, U.S. Ephedra sales in 2002 were $1.28 billion.And by 2003, the year that Belcher died in the spring, sales fell to $510 million. And, sales fell to510 million.
53:27Okay, 50% hit.More than a 50% hit.Metabolife is trying to defend themselves.You know what I mean?Like they're trying to like save face a little bit.So they put up a statement on their website about Belcher's death and they're like,he was overweight and he was exercising strenuously in the heat.So don't do that.
53:45Everyone who does that dies.Also like, do you not think fat people are taking your weight loss product?Yeah, no kidding.Exactly.Do you not think that the people who are taking your weight loss product live in hot climates?And are also exercising because they're trying to.I'll lose weight.Steve Belcher dies in the spring of 2003 and in December of that same year, the FDA
54:01finally announces a ban of Ephedra.Okay.At the time that it is banned, a Fedra represents 5% of sales of dietary supplements inthe U.S. 5% of dietary supplements sold are Ephedra, but they are 45% of adverse eventslinked to any dietary supplement.Whoa.Soon after the FDA banned.sale of products containing ephedra, Congress moved to ban pseudoephedrine because of its role
54:33in the manufacture of black market meth. It was first introduced in Congress as a standalonebill that had some, I can't remember the name, but it was like something like the like combatingmethamphetamine act of 2005 or whatever. Ultimately, it passed as a part of the Patriot Act.Like what? It was in the fucking Patriot Act. You remember how they'ddropped it at night and it was like abaggillion pages. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This was in the Patriot Act.Dude, we should do one of those sleep castswhere we just read federal legislation.
55:03So today, manynations around the world baneffedrin, some also bana fedra as a whole. The U.S.bans both, and we also tracksales of pseudoephedrine and have moved itbehind the counter. Metabolifeended up filing for
55:19bankruptcy and its non-ephedraassets were sold toa new owner. Theproduct is still around, although they wouldn't be a Fedron anymore.Yes, they have reformulated with Dr. A's favorite green coffee bean extract.Okay, well, at least that's fake and dumb and doesn't do anything. At least it's not like scary.I will say, I didn't come to this one thinking that I was telling you a story about money andpolitics, but like, here we are.
55:44Yeah.There's no real move today to repeal the Dietary Supplement Health Education Act.Of course.We clearly have bigger fish to fry as a nation.but it is a bad policy that puts consumers at risk.If not with Ephedra products anymore,then with all manner of other shitthat doesn't have to prove that it's safe
56:05before it goes on the fucking market.For no upside, for no benefit to anyone.There are supplements on the market legallythat are very, very, very hazardous.Or just full on scams.There's something you saw to usand you're paying 12 bucks for it or whatever.Or we don't fucking know
56:20and you should know and be able to knowbefore you take a thing.It's totally indefinitely.So Metabolife isn't the juggernaut that it once was, but the system that created it remains.By which you mean they are still raiding the home of Mel Gibson.Sure, sure, sure, sure, simply for putting vitamins in his water.
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