Marketing Happy Hour - A Marketing Recruiter's Advice for Today's Job Seekers | Matthew Kantner of Creative People

Starting point is 00:00:00 you're listening to the marketing happy hour podcast where we discuss career and industry insights with our peers in marketing we're here to talk about it all like the ups and downs of working in social media how to build authentic relationships in the influencer and pr space managing a nine-to-five and a side hustle at the same time, how to be productive in your life and career without losing your sanity, and more. Ultimately, we're here to build a community with you because we're all trying to navigate the world of marketing together. Are you ready? Grab your favorite drink and join your hosts, Cassie and Erica, for this week's episode. Hi, Matt. Welcome to the show.

Starting point is 00:00:48 How are you doing today? Doing well. Thank you both for having me. Absolutely. We are so excited. As we were saying off record, we just love the topic of recruiting and hiring and interviewing and all things along those lines. I think it's just such a valuable area to dive into in terms of marketing career. So super excited to get into that. But before we do, I do have to ask you a very important question. And that is what is in your glass this morning? Yeah, so it is 1030 a.m. So and I'm at the office. So my go to right now is a black cold brew. But in the spirit of it being marketing happy hour, my go to on a fall or winter day would be old fashioned. So yes, classic. We love that here. I just have a regular old coffee with some pistachio milk in it, which is actually really, really good. So

Starting point is 00:01:46 what do you have Cass? Oh, yum. I have two things as always a water and a Celsius this morning. So finishing off my caffeine for the day. But yeah, always good. Always. Well, Matt, like Cassie said, we're super excited that you're here. First, we just want to hear a little bit about you. So could you share a little bit of behind the scenes of who you are and, you know, your background? How did you get to where you are today? Yeah, for sure. So I took a, what I would call an untraditional route to recruitment.

Starting point is 00:02:21 Funny enough, I was a marketer kind of through college and then post-grad for about five years. So went to school for information systems and marketing, graduated and worked at Vans and Macy's in their digital merchandising and e-commerce departments. And the way that I got to recruitment was actually, you know, I was looking for a smaller team, company setting. I had a lot of pain points and frustrations within my own personal recruitment process and job search. And I started thinking about kind of ways to solve that. And through a friend of a friend, got connected to creative people, which was just one year

Starting point is 00:03:01 and four people kind of strong at that time. And I kind of went full in on recruitment with no prior knowledge, but it's been an awesome journey. And that was nearly five years ago. So it's been a minute now. That's awesome. Well, for those who don't know, do you mind sharing to what you guys do over at Creative People? Yeah, of course.

Starting point is 00:03:23 So Creative People is a recruitment agency and our whole approach is kind of providing more of a human specialized and what I would say like approachable recruitment resource. It's always something that's resonated with me, but we're a 35 personperson organization. We're based in Brooklyn. We have locations in LA, Seattle, San Francisco, and Miami. And effectively, what we do is we partner with a variety of growth stage companies and funds, everyone from venture capital and the early kind of stealth mode company stage, all the way to series A and D companies. So think of it as like a Waze, Google, Square and Cash app in scale. And we hire out

Starting point is 00:04:15 their teams for brand, creative, marketing and product. And that's both on a full-time and a freelance capacity. Awesome. Well, I think your both on a full-time and a freelance capacity. Awesome. Well, I think your journey is just a testament to the fact that if you're in marketing, there's so many different angles and avenues to go into, and you just really never know if you're open to that, uh, what could happen. I think even for Erica and I, the way that our career started looks very different to how it is now. So I think it's just a journey of figuring out what you like, some of those pain points or gaps that you see in the areas of work that you're in and just kind of being adaptable to that. So it's very cool how you've kind of shifted into the HR side of things. Thank you. Absolutely. Well, let's talk skill set. So skills are obviously an important part

Starting point is 00:05:07 of just getting hired and growing in your field and things like that. So how do you feel professionals can effectively identify and develop the skills that will set them apart? Yeah. So one practice that I like to advise job seekers to do is to speak with their, I guess, team members, their former direct reports, if they're still in school and applying for their first job, maybe people that they worked closely with in the club or organization, or even just an internship. Ask them what they think that person is good at, right? Ask them, you know, hey, where are areas that I can kind of improve or, you know, be stronger at and start to take some common

Starting point is 00:05:53 themes away from that and write it down, have a Google Doc or Notion page and, you know, ask them to be as open and honest as possible, especially when just starting out. I think you want to have a high level of confidence. You want to come in feeling like you can own everything. But I think a level of humility can be really important. And so identifying those key traits can be really helpful. And then just figuring out how to best communicate that based off the job you're applying for, based off the role opening, can be very, very helpful to kind of mirror that. Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. And I'm thinking through like some of the people who are listening right now, and they may have never worked with a recruiting agency or

Starting point is 00:06:36 a recruiter or anything like that. What would you say to somebody like that? Why would somebody work with a recruiter versus, you know, trying and trying and trying to apply? We know it's so hard right now applying to jobs. But why would somebody choose to work with a recruiter? I'd love to just hear that part. Honestly, if the recruiter is good, you're going to get a high level of transparency, right? And it's going to be to the point where they're saying, hey, you check eight out of the 10 boxes. Here are the two boxes you do not check. And here is what you should do in the interview to be prepared or should do within your submission or your resume to highlight some things that might be areas or gaps that they're looking for.

Starting point is 00:07:19 So that's the first thing is just like you will get a full kind of inside scoop. It's almost like working with a friend that works at the company that can say, Hey, just so you know, this is what they're going to ask you. And then it also will help with guidance of, Hey, you know, your goal in five years is to be a director of brand marketing. Maybe don't start applying to growth manager type roles, right? Apply to a social media or a content role. So you'll get a little bit of that career advice and guidance that might not be, you know, apparent from just like a LinkedIn job advert. Awesome. That is so cool. And I've never worked with a recruiter personally, but I think that's so valuable. And I would encourage anybody listening

Starting point is 00:08:05 to reach out and try to work with a recruiter because that I think is so like invaluable, honestly, like that kind of support going through the job application process, you know, figuring out the skills that you do have that apply to these different jobs and maybe the ones that you don't have that you can go and then work on. I love that. Well, Matt, I want to hear your perspective too on how job seekers can foster authentic relationships with recruiters. What does that look like? You know, once you've decided I'd like to work with a recruiter, what should they look for in a recruiter to ensure that positive and supportive experience? Yeah. So just as I mentioned, transparency on like the recruiter to candidate side it should be

Starting point is 00:08:46 mirrored and so you know as a candidate right like be really open and honest about the absolute kind of salary that you must have with the comfortability around work from home right do you need to be fully remote um is that a deal breaker to you? Like, you know, do you want to potentially move to LA? Is that a market you're open to, right? Like, give all the information possible. And if there are yellow flags in an interview process, if it's, you know, an absolute no, or if it's an absolute dream job, like, communicate that as much as possible to your recruiter. And that should hopefully be then replicated by the recruiter and the team that you're applying for. And at the very least, like there will be no surprises. And that's always the motto that we have internally is like,

Starting point is 00:09:34 limit the surprises. You should never get to a final offer stage and be stocked that it's 20K below what you were hoping to get or that it's not the title you were seeking for. And so I think that two-way street mentality can really allow for like a long relationship too, which is important to note with what we do, right? We like to work with people through the course of their career. You know, I've placed people

Starting point is 00:09:59 at three or four different roles over the past five years, right? And it's been cool to see kind of their career growth and ownership increase throughout that kind of relationship. Well, I got to ask you about resumes because a lot of times resumes are one of the first touch points that a candidate has with a brand. And so, too, there's a lot of questions around how much should I be tweaking my resume for each job? How long should it be? Things like that. And so do you have any tips for just making sure that your resume is is number one, talk about the impact that you've made, right? One thing that I see, you know,

Starting point is 00:10:49 more junior to mid-level marketers, especially try to highlight is their management experience, their leadership. And that exposure is great. Like that confidence is great. I'm sure they've had leadership examples, but many times a hiring manager for an associate or manager level role is still looking for someone to be hands-on,

Starting point is 00:11:12 is still looking for someone to be able to make impact. And so I would kind of limit the fluff and I would be short and concise with those bullet points of responsibilities and impact of saying, you know, I've implemented a new campaign idea. It was not asked of me. It was outside of my job responsibilities. Sales went from X to Y, right? Versus just the first half of that sentence, right? Or, you know, through my tenure, I grew social media awareness from X to Y by limiting costs by Y percentage. Those are all different things that will really speak to any type of marketer. It's easier on the growth and digital side, of course, but there are a lot of metrics and KPIs that will highlight the true impact that you've shown and show how invaluable you'll be, right? You know, to the rest of the

Starting point is 00:12:03 team to that future role. Yeah, for sure. And then just outside of, You know, to the rest of the team, to that future role. Yeah, for sure. And then just outside of, you know, the basics, making sure that you're submitting a solid resume and building your skillset and things like that. What about just networking during the job seeking process, any tips around there, how you should be connecting with different brands or any tips you'd give to professionals just looking to build relationships with different companies too? Yeah, I'm very biased towards LinkedIn. I use it every day. I think the organic algorithm is amazing. The ability to connect with pretty much anyone in the world, right? Even just to get on their radar is, you can't match that anywhere else. And so what I would say is think through

Starting point is 00:12:52 from a budget standpoint, if this fits in it, but think through LinkedIn premium, think through maybe buying a free trial or whatever for three months and send short and concise messages, literally three or four sentences of who you are, what you've done, why you're reaching out and how you can be resourceful to that person. But networking is massive and don't be afraid to aim big, right? I know some people that have only done a job search and only reached out to that direct hiring manager, reach out to the

Starting point is 00:13:26 CMO, reach out to the CEO. They're going to love that, especially if you're kind of just starting in your career and that excitement and curiosity. And again, I keep saying confidence is going to stick out from the rest of applicants within that broader job and talent pool. Yeah. So good. Thank you for that. Well, as Erica mentioned, too, the job market is very tough right now. We receive lots of messages and emails from people just saying, I've been applying for months and nothing's happening. And so do you have any words of encouragement or just advice for professionals currently navigating this job market right now? Yeah, I mean, I would write down what

Starting point is 00:14:07 some of those non-negotiables might be, right? Whether it's role ownership, whether that's location, and we've talked about that a little bit prior, but be honest with yourself on those types of buckets that you need to hit and feel free to like stick hard and true to those types of, you know, boxes. Right. And so when you're going and applying, like understand that it's not going to be the dream job potentially. Like I loved my time at Macy's. Did I want to work there forever? No. Did I want to be a part of the 30,000 person organization and be there 30 years? Like not necessarily. And that's okay. But are you going to learn? Are you going to work with a great team, a great product? And so you don't need to be just applying to Warby Parker and Sweetgreen and

Starting point is 00:14:56 these amazing, sexy, cool companies. We work with both of them and like, they're phenomenal, right? But those people started at an agency. They started at a 50,000 person, you know, Deloitte or big four, you know, accounting firm potentially, and they made their way through what they've, they've grown. So be open to kind of expanding a little bit outside of, you know, that dream job. And sometimes the flashiest job or the, you know, the most apparent brand isn't the best for you at that given time. And you can add a lot more value in the mid to later part of your career by having a strong foundation with, you know, kind of some of the larger companies out there that are likely still hiring or have some of those more rotational type programs.

Starting point is 00:15:43 Completely agree. And I had a question pop into my mind as you were speaking and talking about, you know, it doesn't have to be the dream job, at least not right away. I would like to get your perspective on job hopping. Is that bad in the eyes of like the hiring managers that are hiring right now? What, I mean, we hear a lot of different perspectives

Starting point is 00:16:03 around that. I just love to hear what you have to say. It's tough because I think, I mean, we hear a lot of different perspectives around that. I just love to hear what you have to say. It's tough because I think, you know, if you're comparing every roll apples to apples, which it's not, obviously I, you know, I would say, try to stick in a role, you know, your first two roles, at least a year and a half to two years, try to get promoted at least once internally to show that proven success in that position. I will never, you know, bias or work against someone that has left the past three roles within 10 months. Never. Right. Because there can be so many reasons, HR related, performance related, business related, you know, economy related. And those are things, especially in the earlier parts of your career, where you're going to be potentially like a product of that versus,

Starting point is 00:16:50 you know, a change maker and that, or someone that was responsible for that. So I would try to stick things out for at least a year, no matter where you are, assuming of course, like, it's a fair, equitable, safe place to work, right? But it is really important to try to show that success there because I have candidly had companies and clients say to me, I love their background and what they seem to own. They seem great, but they've hopped, you know, the past four years in four different roles. How do I know they're not going to do the same in a year? And when you're investing in someone, right, especially in the startup landscape, you want that person to be there for three or four years and have it be a true chapter of,

Starting point is 00:17:33 you know, both parties' experiences and stories. Totally. And then I'm also thinking through, you know, some people step away from their corporate job or their career for a little bit to start something on their own. What is the perspective around that? You know, how do you kind of frame what you've done over the past, you know, maybe it's a year that you stepped away from your job and you did some freelance work and things like that, but you don't really know how to convey that. Do you have any tips for that? Because I know a lot of our listeners are in that space right now looking for jobs, but they've been doing the freelance thing. They either got like laid off and started doing freelance or they quit their job to try to do freelance. And then

Starting point is 00:18:14 it's just not really working out. What's your perspective around that? When you're a freelancer, you are a brand, right? So I would create a website. I would create an experience so that when people go on your LinkedIn within five seconds, they know who you work with, what markets you specialize in, how you can add value and the impact you've made. And so create that brand. It should be the same as you going onto the Sweetgreen website, right? Like you're going to have a whole experience. You're going to know exactly what they're offering and what they stand for. And that's really important. Now, I know with contracting and freelancing, sometimes you're not able to share the company you worked with. Sometimes you're not able to share those numbers.

Starting point is 00:19:01 When signing any agreement, I would ask and maybe try to push back in a professional way if that's something that you're able to highlight and market for yourself. But I love the approach to freelance and I've worked with a lot of individuals that have three or four years of experience, do that for a year or two for whatever reason, right? Money, personal changes, or they just want to give it a shot on their own that have gone back to full-time and then back to freelance again. And, you know, whatever that story is going to hold,

Starting point is 00:19:32 I think just knowing, especially as a marketer, that like you're a brand yourself when you decide to do that can be a really interesting way to look at it and can set you up for a longer term success. Totally. I appreciate your perspective around that because I know a lot of people have that question in their minds of how do I reenter

Starting point is 00:19:49 the quote unquote normal workforce after I've done that. So I appreciate you answering that question. Okay. Well, we can't let you go without asking our favorite question on Marketing Happy Hour. And that is, what do you know now that you wish you knew a little earlier on in your career? It can be anything. Everyone's trying to figure it out, right? Like you think of Elon Musk, you think of Steve Jobs, whoever it would have been, right? They are still trying to figure it out. They don't have all the answers. And so it's really important to remind yourself of that, right? Like your boss might not know exactly what to do. They might have the best accolade in the world, but I've never tried to solve this problem before. So take that with you, right?

Starting point is 00:20:31 Embrace that. Be like, you know, look to your left and your right, be a good teammate and be like, do you know what's going on? No, okay, let's try our best, right? And as long as you try your best, as long as you're the hardest worker in the room and you show up, you know, in the times

Starting point is 00:20:46 where maybe no one else is there, you're going to do great. But that requires you looking after yourself and your mental and physical health as well. So you can speak a lot on that side of things. But in short, I would say just know that no one has all the right answers, right? And the way that they got to those levels that you might aspire to be at is through hard work and curiosity and I think never settling for good. So good. Love that.

Starting point is 00:21:16 Love that so much. Well, Matt, this has been wonderful. And we could ask you so many questions. We'll have to have you back on to speak to that mental health side of things a little bit more and just more hiring tips as well. But I would love to know where everyone can follow along with you as well as creative people online. Yeah, for sure. So maybe we can link to our LinkedIn profile and then we have a creative people LinkedIn page as well, which I'd encourage you all to follow and connect on. And just to highlight the way that we are broken out internally, we have brand creative,

Starting point is 00:21:52 we have marketing, product management, and then there are specific recruiters within those verticals. So it should be pretty easy to follow through just looking through our employee list, but you'll see someone like Aiko who does all brand creative hiring or someone like Sophia that does product design. So feel free to connect and follow with those people that, you know, align best to your goals and, you know, the roles that you're hiring for. Awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah. We'll have all of those linked below in the show notes, but Matt, thanks again for sharing everything and just passing along your insights to us today. We really appreciate it.

Starting point is 00:22:26 Of course. Thank you both for having me. We are so excited to share that our first ever free Marketing Happy Hour digital resource is now available. Download the Dream Career Game Plan today at marketinghappyhr.com forward slash freebie. That's marketinghappyhr.com forward slash freebie. This five-step workbook will guide you through defining your goals, building your network, diversifying your skills, influencing where you're at, and investing in your growth.

Starting point is 00:23:01 Cassie and I created this resource with marketing careers in mind, but the framework can be applied to any industry. Our hope is that this workbook will help you truly elevate your career, whether you're in the market for a new position or just looking to make your mark in your current organization. No matter where this resource finds you, we are cheering you on every step of the way. So go check it out at marketinghappyhr.com forward slash freebie to download and make your career dreams come true.

Marketing Happy Hour - A Marketing Recruiter's Advice for Today's Job Seekers | Matthew Kantner of Creative People

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