Marketing Happy Hour - Ask MHH: 5 Tough Career Challenges + How to Navigate | Cassie and Erica

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey there, welcome to the Marketing Happy Hour podcast, where each week we're learning career-defining advice, powerful social media strategies, unique creative tips, groundbreaking influencer marketing tactics, and more from marketing experts that represent some of the world's leading brands. Let's dive in. Grab a drink and join your hosts hosts, Cassie and Erica, for this week's episode. Hey, everyone. Thanks for tuning in. You might notice that this is a little bit different. We don't have a guest today. It's just Cassie and I, but we wanted to talk through some career situations or some industry situations and kind of how to handle those just from our perspective of things

Starting point is 00:00:52 that we've had to deal with in the past or stories of, you know, our friends and family who've had to deal with things. Just thought we could have a chat today. So Cassie, I do still have to ask you, it is marketing happy hour after all, what is in your glass tonight? Uh, you know, this is really sad because I feel like this has been my answer the last several episodes, but I have water. Yes. Which is really sad because I feel like the last few seasons, it's been so fun. I've had a different type of wine or a different drink I'm trying, but yeah, it's just straight water today, which is fine, but not as exciting. What about you? That's okay. I, so earlier before we, before we started recording, I was having

Starting point is 00:01:39 soup out of a mug and I was joking that I was going to have that as my, what is in your glass tonight, but I did not. I now have, um, a juice that I'm sipping on as well as a, almost like a half of a Negroni. Cause I wasn't feeling a whole lot today. So, Oh my goodness. I love it. Well, maybe I'll have to go try something. I still have a with co cocktail little mixture that you gave me that I still need to try. So maybe I'll go give that a try later, but without further ado, let's jump into this topic today. So for you listening, we have five tough career in industry situations to talk about and tackle and how to handle those. So again, these are some things that we've dealt with people we know have dealt with

Starting point is 00:02:29 and just some things that we know are really tough topics, but hopefully we can lend some insight to you guys. We're not experts on these topics by any means, but hopefully from our learnings, we can offer some good stuff to you guys. So first point here that we have is how to navigate burnout. So this is a big one, especially for me, business owner, nine to five life too. We all deal with it. So one thing to Erica, I would love to know, how do you feel when you start to approach burnout? What are some of those signs that you look for in yourself? Yeah, absolutely. I think Haley touched

Starting point is 00:03:13 on this in our last episode a little bit, but waking up every day and not being excited or not being thrilled about what you're doing with your life or with your job can be a good indicator of burnout. I would say that the most important thing is to recognize that at the end of the day, if you aren't taking care of yourself and sacrificing that for work, burnout will really just be the beginning of it. I've heard so many stories of health issues that can be heightened by stressors at work. And, um, you know, it's simply just not worth it to be so absorbed in your work that who you are and who you want to be suffers. So I actually found a stat for you, Cassie. Let me pull it up. Let's hear it. Yes. So there's a life coach on

Starting point is 00:04:08 TikTok and this is pulled from the daily mail. And she said that it can really take about five years or up to five years to physically and mentally recover from burnout. So it's definitely no joke. It's something to take seriously. And that's why we wanted to talk about it today. Yeah. And again, something very real and it's important to do a lot of self-reflection and realize when you are burnt out. I think that's a big thing too. When we work too much and we are getting to that burnout stage, we don't usually have time to self-assessed and to look at yourself and understand what's going on in your life. Are you working too much?

Starting point is 00:04:51 Are you saying yes to too many things? And so giving yourself that buffer, whether it's going outside on a walk once or twice a day for 20 minutes, and just thinking without electronics and really taking a look at your life and what you're doing and seeing how you can make shifts just for your mental wellbeing and your emotional, physical, just everything. And so saying no for me is really big. So this can go into play with career, but also just in life. If you do feel like you're burnt out because you have too many things on your plate. Um, if your boss is asking you to do a million new tasks on top of what you're doing on a

Starting point is 00:05:29 day to day, you can say no, or say, Hey, you know, to your boss, Hey, I have a lot X, Y, Z on my plate right now. I don't think I'm going to be able to get to this until next Friday. For example, just based on my schedule, it's okay to say those things because I feel like a lot of times we don't stand up for ourselves. And especially to our bosses say that you cannot handle certain things in a given time. And so that's huge to be able to, um, you know, admit that to yourself and to other people around you, because the biggest thing you don't want to fall into is over-promising and under-delivering. So if you were to say yes

Starting point is 00:06:11 to your boss and then, you know, the deadline shows up and you don't have that task done, then that looks poorly on you. So I think first of all, knowing when to say no, knowing when to say not today, maybe later is a big thing to help avoid that as well. Yeah, absolutely. That's something that I struggle with a little bit because I'm such a people pleaser or like I'm an Enneagram too. So I'm the helper, right?

Starting point is 00:06:35 So I'm always trying to help people. And I fall into this trap where I say yes to everything. So I have started to really learn to say, to block out time in my schedule to work on certain tasks, even though I might not have a bunch of meetings throughout the day, I will block time, time slots for me to work on certain things. And it even happened, you know, a little, a couple of weeks ago, someone asked me if I could take a look at something. And I just said, you know, I've set aside, set aside time at three 30 on Wednesday to

Starting point is 00:07:13 look at that for you. I will get back to you with my feedback after three o'clock on Wednesday. So it really just comes down to that. And I think something that you touched on, Cassie, that was really good is just finding something outside of work that you enjoy and taking those breaks. It's been really huge. So I also put time in my schedule for that. It's a little difficult when we are both running, you know, you're running a business, I'm working a nine to five. We're trying to run

Starting point is 00:07:45 this podcast together and we're trying to keep up with all of these other obligations that we have outside of work. And I think really time blocking has helped so much, just at least for me to feel better about, you know, what's everything that's going on in my life. I think my friends might get a little annoyed by it because I'm always texting them like, Hey, what are you doing on the 16th of May? And you know, it's like, that's maybe like, you know, weeks out, but I'm just trying to make it a point to schedule in rest and time with people to where it makes me feel fulfilled. And like, I'm not just always working. Yes. Yeah. It's really being intentional with your time, I think is the overarching idea here. So being intentional with how many dinner dates you have in a month or how many meetings you have in a day. I know

Starting point is 00:08:37 it's hard working a corporate job to say, Oh, I'm going to time block my schedule to only have meetings on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Sometimes that's kind of difficult. I think you can set a precedent for your team if you're comfortable and able to, and just say, Hey, you know, I have a lot of tasks throughout the week that I have to work on. I would really prefer if we keep our meetings to Tuesdays and Thursdays, for example, and seeing if that works for everyone, because you can set that example for your team to really be intentional with your time too. So don't ever be afraid to bring those different topics up, but moving into the next one. So the next point we have here is how to tell your boss, you need something.

Starting point is 00:09:19 So the number one golden topic is how do you tell your boss that you want to raise? Yeah, I think the first thing that you should think about is the worst thing that someone can say is no. So there really is no harm in asking. And no is really just the stepping stone to other things that you can ask for. So maybe it's a no, we don't have the budget to give you a raise right now. And then that opens the door to say, okay, well, what can we be doing that I feel more fulfilled or I'm, you know, growing in my career more in, in lieu of a raise, you know? I don't know, Cassie, do you have another, do you have any other advice on that? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:10:03 Yeah. So that's really good. I think just with any conversation that you have with a boss, a client, really anyone asking questions can lead to new information that you wouldn't have had when you wouldn't have asked. So even if the answer is no, like you said, there may be a, but afterwards where you could learn something you could do to achieve that request maybe down the road. So no doesn't always mean never. It could mean maybe another time. So that's something to keep in mind too. And when asking for a raise, I think it's very important

Starting point is 00:10:37 to come prepared. So one thing I'd recommend is always evaluating your job description that you were hired for. So let's just say if your role hasn't changed at all, and you're still in that role that you were hired for looking over those details on a regular basis to see, okay, how much outside of this original job description for X amount of dollars in my salary was I hired for and how much more am I doing? Because that could even just be the information you need to present to your boss and say, Hey, since, you know, in the last six to eight months, I've really brought this value. I'm doing more than I was hired for. This is the range that

Starting point is 00:11:16 people are getting paid and this, you know, job description and other industries are in my current industry. And so coming with that research and coming with that information and not just saying, I want more money because living's expensive and I want more money. That's not a reason, even though you may think it is, it is, you know, I would love if we could just all tell people we want more money because we want more money, but you have to come with more than that. So, uh, coming back with that research, like I said, is super, super, super important. And another point here is how do you tell your boss that you need more time to work on a project, Erica, how do you approach those situations? Yeah, this is another

Starting point is 00:11:59 topic. That's really interesting. Um, great, great points on the raise thing though, Cassie,, I wanted to give you credit there because those are really, really good takeaways. And I think recognizing that if you need more time to work on a certain task, just be honest, share your needs, see if there's anything that you can deprioritize in order to shift your time in order to work on a project that might be pressing at the moment. Really, those are my top tips there. Yeah, absolutely. And one thing too, I think is a lot of times, especially bosses and clients do the same thing is they'll come to you and say, Hey, can you do X, Y, Z? And throughout the day, there's a lot of different things that pile on top of each other, but asking if they don't present a deadline, asking for that so that you yourself can also prioritize those tasks on

Starting point is 00:13:01 your own. I always recommend a project management software so that you could filter some of those tasks in, you know, what's due when, and that's going to really help clean up your time, maybe even avoid burnout as well. So there's also Cassie, I think there's project management tools that will like, it'll make like a little graph of your time and how you're spending it each day. Like according to what is due. I just remember working one time with, I think monday.com and they did that and they had like, Oh, this person's workload is crazy this week. So maybe don't add, you know, more to their plate for this week. And then that indicates to whoever else is assigning tasks that maybe the tasks can either go to somebody else or should be scheduled for a later day. I think that's,

Starting point is 00:13:51 I think that's a tool. I'm pretty sure we can put it in the show notes. Yeah, no, I think you're right. And it's actually funny. You mentioned that another little hack that I'll share with you is tracking your time every once in a while, maybe for a day or two and seeing where you're spending your time every once in a while, maybe for a day or two, and seeing where you're spending your time the most and making sure it aligns with some of the overarching goals that you have for yourself, for your team. And so that's huge because it's, it's kind of a time audit in a way, and that can also help you identify, are there certain tasks that I'm doing on a regular basis that I shouldn't be doing? What should I be presenting to my boss that needs to be offloaded off of my plate and

Starting point is 00:14:28 presented on to another team member? This could also identify to us. I know, especially with smaller teams and startups that some of us work for, there's a smaller team. And so we are bringing on a lot of tasks onto our plate that again, we may not have been hired for. And so showing your boss that you did a time audit and presenting all these different areas that you've been working on that you shouldn't be working on and is not the goal of the role

Starting point is 00:14:57 that you were hired for could, maybe they could take that and say, Hey, we probably need to hire someone in another position to help support you because you're doing a lot of tasks that you shouldn't be doing. So that's another little hack that I like to share with people is maybe once every few months, do a time audit, see where you're spending your time. And you can learn a lot on what you should and shouldn't be doing. And so another thing too, that I have here is telling your boss that you need more learning opportunities. So how would you approach that kind of situation, Erica? No, that's a good one. And I think again, I have probably said this for every topic so far of how

Starting point is 00:15:39 to ask your boss or tell your boss that you need something is just being honest. I think having a right relationship, an open relationship with your boss is really important, which can feel a little bit intimidating because you're like, oh, they're someone I look up to, or there's somebody that's just assigning me all these things. And we don't really get a chance to really talk, but I think developing the relationship and having them understand like where you want to go in your career and how you want to grow is really important, whether it's at that company or not. Now I wouldn't say, Hey, can you help me get to XYZ company? But it is great to like be open and honest about where you see yourself going, because that's what

Starting point is 00:16:21 a boss is for a good boss, a good manager is supposed to build you up and help you grow. So I think it just comes down to being honest with even that, you know, I might be able to dedicate some time to block out in your schedule, in your calendar, some time to complete, I think is, is really beneficial. Yeah. And another thing too, that we've discussed on a previous podcast episode is if your company allows it doing some freelance on the side, not too much. Cause again, we want to avoid burnout of working too much, but if you do want to freelance on the side, not too much. Cause again, we want to avoid burnout of working too much, but if you do want to take on certain projects, maybe in different categories of your industry or dabbling in graphic design, if you only do podcast management, for example, that can be a really great way to expand your horizons, get inspired.

Starting point is 00:17:23 It also allows you to practice managing clients better, communication. And so that's another really good, interesting way to learn more about how to do your job better and just be a better professional overall. So that's definitely another thing I would encourage you to do. And we touched on two courses and things like that,

Starting point is 00:17:44 but another thing you could ask for more opportunities within your current company. I think you touched on this a little bit, Erica, just asking to help in different areas of your organization. You can learn a lot. And that also helps you. I think this is super valuable because getting ingrained in different categories within your current company allows you to understand how things work a little bit better in your organization. So let's just say, for example, if you have an idea for a campaign and you know, there's going to be a lot of teams involved in making that campaign happen, you having a really good understanding of how all of these different teams works will alleviate a lot of that process of asking around, making sure it's going to work out. Cause you might be able to do a lot of that vetting for that campaign just by already having that knowledge of different categories in your company. So it's a really beneficial point there just overall. Yeah, no, I love that. And I think

Starting point is 00:18:42 I wanted to ask you this next question that we have have or this next topic, because you have a lot, you don't have a lot of experience with it, but you have more than I do. And it is how to break up with a client or even how to, how to quit your job. Yeah, this is a juicy one and I'm not going to lie. I'm really bad when I would go to quit or leave a company. It was such a terrifying thing for me. I got so nervous. I was afraid what my bosses would say. And just overall, I think number one, whether it's for a client that you're breaking up with or leaving a position that you're at in a corporate position, that you are making a decision that is right for you. And especially if you've vetted that decision, while you've really assessed these new opportunities that you're going to be stepping into, and you've decided that this is the best thing for you personally, but also professionally, then nothing should stop you. You should be confident in that decision. And no matter how they react or, um, you know, approach that, that you are doing the right thing for yourself. Another thing that has taken me a long time to realize too, is that you are not for

Starting point is 00:19:57 everyone. So I like to think that I'm a pretty nice person. I do a good job, but that doesn't mean that what I provide for people is right place, right time for them. You know, even if I do feel like I'm really good in what I do in my industry of marketing and social, maybe it's not the right fit with a client and that's okay. And so realizing that and realizing that it's okay to move on and find new clients that may fit you and what you do better is really great because I cannot tell you how great the feeling is to be in a corporate position or be working with a client that you just collaborate so well.

Starting point is 00:20:36 They see the value in what they do. They see the value in what you're providing. There is nothing better than that situation. But yeah, I think just having the confidence of moving forward and you're providing, there is nothing better than that situation. But yeah, I think just having the confidence of moving forward and you're making the right decision. Another thing too, is set that client or that former boss up for success. So providing some sort of another person or a referral that you can make for them. Another thing too, is if you have time to hand off some of your position things to the new person coming into your role, that's another thing.

Starting point is 00:21:10 I know we don't always have the luxury of that. A lot of times it's two weeks where your next position is going to start, but if you can provide a handover document, that's super helpful or any other resources for that person coming into your position. But what do you think about this one, Erica? Yeah, totally Cassie. And you touched on choosing the right decision for yourself. I think that's really important to recognize that it's not a, you know, personal vendetta that you have against this company that you're taking out on them by leaving.

Starting point is 00:21:42 It's just what is going to be the best decision for you. You really need to hone in on that. And in doing that, you do want to set them up for success because that'll help you maintain the relationship with the boss or the coworkers that you're leaving. You do never know who you're going to stay in contact with or end up working with or for in the future. So that's definitely a really good tip there. And that leads us into our next question of what to do if you're not feeling alignment between your interests or your purpose and the role that you're in. We wanted to give some more tips other than just quit your job, just leave that position. So Cassie, I will let you take that one. The first stab at it. Yeah. So we talked a

Starting point is 00:22:28 lot about this with Haley, which was in a recent episode. She is with tracker was formerly with Beekman 1802. She's worked with some amazing companies. So one question we asked her is how did you know when the right time was to move on? And she touched a little bit about, you know, sometimes you're in a current position, although the position, the company is amazing. Sometimes there's not an alignment there. And if you do everything that you can to talk to your bosses about maybe different positions to move into, if there's not an opportunity there, it is maybe the time to quit and move on.

Starting point is 00:23:02 And that is okay. And it's okay for interest to change. I think that's another thing. I think even if we have a background of years in a certain industry, and then we finally realized based off of a personal change, personal interest change, that this is not right for me anymore, or maybe a different version of what I'm currently doing is something that I'd better be suited in. That is okay as well. I would hate for anyone out there to just feel stuck in what they're currently doing and feel like because they have a degree in X, Y, Z, and because they've been doing X, Y, Z for so long that they cannot change. And that is not true. My mom, for example, one of her best friends, she's in her fifties and I kid you not,

Starting point is 00:23:46 she's changed her career twice in the last several years. She was a teacher and then she was a nurse and now she does taxes for a living. So you can change it even later in your career. There's nothing wrong with that. Another thing too, I think that's helpful in this area is having bosses and mentors and even friends who face similar situations or a podcast to listen to where you can get right on this topic, marketing happy hour, have those people that you can rely on those communities that you can rely on to go to and present these ideas, present these challenges that you're facing. And again, especially if you really love the company that you're working for, if you share with your boss

Starting point is 00:24:31 that, Hey, I love what I've been doing, but I feel like I will be more fulfilled doing something else. Do you have an opportunity for me in that area? And you never know, again, that goes back to, it never hurts to just ask and see what they say. And again, if the time comes where they say, Hey, no, there's not an opportunity here and you do need to move on to a new company. That's also okay. So have those people you can lean on, ask questions, be transparent too. And you never know what can come out of that. And that leads us to the last question, which are you ready for this last tough situation, Erica? Ooh, hit me with it. So the last question here that we have is how do

Starting point is 00:25:16 you handle challenging feedback from a client or a boss? Ooh, that is a good one. I think a lot of times challenging feedback roots or stems from a communication issue. So I think the easiest way to navigate that is to take a breath, understand that even if they are coming off frustrated and just, you know, whether they're communicating that through raising their voice or something along those lines, just take a breath, take a beat, don't be defensive, just have that perspective and, you know, see what you can do to better understand the expectations and how you can better set new expectations moving forward so that these issues no longer come up. And I think that'll really set you up for success. I don't know, Cassie, if you had something else to say around that, but I think that is just the key piece of it is it really comes down to communication. And if you can better set your communication up with a client

Starting point is 00:26:25 or your boss or somebody, your co your coworker, that'll really help alleviate a lot of those challenging situations. Yes. And I want to mention to the point where you said, don't be defensive. That's huge because 90% of the time, I promise you when a client or a boss comes at you with feedback or challenging information or challenging response to something you've done, most of the time, it is not because of you personally. Sure, we mess up and we make mistakes and we maybe do things that aren't to the expectations of our boss or our clients. But a lot of times there is something else going on in their lives that is causing them to react this way.

Starting point is 00:27:11 So another thing too, and I got this feedback and this tip recently is asking the right questions to understand, is there something else behind this feedback that they're sharing? Are they going through something? Are they, is there another challenge in the business that maybe you don't need to be aware of, but that you can maybe use that as a reason why this is happening. And that's going to alleviate a lot of burdens from you of feeling all the pressure of the situation, because again, 90% of the time, it is not all because of you. I think another thing too, that I've had to learn over the years is sometimes challenging feedback can be delivered in an email, which I do not prefer.

Starting point is 00:27:53 I always prefer clients to give me a call or bosses in the past to give me a call when something's going on or have me go into their office and talk about it. But I know a lot of times, especially coming across over email, a, some things are not translated well in written words. So that's one thing to keep in mind. So you may be reading into a situation, maybe a little bit more over-inflated in your brain than it actually is. So that's one thing to keep in mind. So that goes back to asking the right questions. But number two is when you are going to respond to that email, take a minute, kind of like what you said, Erica, take a beat, read it over, maybe type out your

Starting point is 00:28:31 initial notes, something you want to say in response, but do not click send right away. Because a lot of times our emails back can be so defensive and a little bit over the top. And so we definitely want to avoid that. So that's one thing just overall here, take a beat, take a moment, take a breath, and just think about your response before you say it out loud, because your response could lead to an even bigger issue in the future, which we definitely want to avoid too. Yeah. You definitely want to diffuse the situation rather than escalate it. That's definitely a very important to do. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this has been so good. I had so much fun talking through these ideas and thoughts with you and

Starting point is 00:29:12 we will have to do this again. So if you're listening and you have a specific challenge or topic that you just want to hear Erica and I chat over, or even with a guest, let us know, share it with us on Instagram or Facebook or LinkedIn. And we would love to do some more content like this with all of you. Yes. Amazing. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks Cassie for joining me today. You're welcome. Thank you.

Marketing Happy Hour - Ask MHH: 5 Tough Career Challenges + How to Navigate | Cassie and Erica

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