Marketing Happy Hour - Building Cultural Relevance Through Influencers and Celebrities | Bette Ann Fialkov, Fractional Head of Influencer Marketing Bette

Episode Date: September 12, 2025

In this episode of Marketing Happy Hour, we’re joined by Bette Ann Fialkov, Fractional Head of Influencer Marketing and Professor at Parsons, who has led influencer and celebrity partnership strategies for powerhouse brands including Google, Lyft, and Hims & Hers. With nearly 15 years of experience, Bette Ann shares the playbook for building and scaling influencer programs, the lessons she’s learned moving between brand and consultancy roles, and the secret to creating partnerships that put brands at the center of culture. Whether you’re just getting started with influencer marketing or looking to elevate your program to the next level, this episode is packed with insights you can apply right away.Key Takeaways:// What it really takes to scale an influencer program from test-and-learn to fully operational.// How major brands like Google and Lyft leveraged influencers and celebrities to tell cultural stories.// The biggest lessons Bette Ann has learned from moving between in-house brand roles and consultancy work.// Where influencer marketing is headed next — and the shifts brands need to prepare for.// The surprising questions her students at Parsons are asking about the future of partnerships.Connect with Bette Ann: LinkedIn____Say hi! DM me on Instagram and let us know what content you want to hear on the show - I can't wait to hear from you! Please also consider rating the show and leaving a review, as that helps us tremendously as we move forward in this Marketing Happy Hour journey and create more content for all of you. ⁠Join our FREE Open Jobs group on LinkedIn: ⁠Join now⁠Get the latest from MHH, straight to your inbox: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our email list!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow MHH on Social: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

I instruct people that they need at least six months, if not more, to really test, iterate, test again, get those data points and learn what is working for the brand. The other thing that's really important to have a fully operationalized program is all the internal systems need to be ironed out, and this takes time. Welcome to Marketing Happy Hour. I'm Cassie, consultant, podcaster, and your host. Every Thursday, you'll hear episodes packed with insights from brand leaders on an array of topics, from crafting effective marketing strategies and hitting career goals, to building leadership skills and launching your own business. Inspired by those unfiltered happy hour combos with peers, this show is all about practical, empowering chats to support your professional journey. So grab your favorite drink and let's get to the episode. Today we are joined by Betty Ann Fialcove.

Head of Influencer Marketing and Professor of Influencer Marketing at Parsons. Super excited to have you today, Betty Ann. Welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yes. We're super excited about this conversation. And Betty Ann, we were introduced during my time at Upwork, really when we were looking to get smarter about how to leverage our influencer and celebrity partnership programs. And your insight was really invaluable to the team. And I really admire you as a leader in the space. So excited for you to share your knowledge with the marketing. Happy Hour community. Thank you. Yeah, well, we have to kick off as always with an important

question. Betty Ann, what's been in your Glasser Cup lately? So I would say during the day, I have a decaf oat milk latte. I never drink caffeine because if I drink caffeine, I turn into a crazy person. So I'll have a decaf oat milk latte or like maybe like a spin drift or a coffee. And then at night after work, I love a good dirty martini with blue cheese stuffed olives. Ooh. Yes. Delicious. Great choices all around. We, I feel like every time I come to Allie's place, we're drinking Spin Drift as well. So that's a big one. But yeah, love those options. Well, we would love just as we dive in again. And I'm excited personally to hear the answer to this question because I don't know you as well as Allie does. So stoked to just meet

you and get to know your experience. But do you mind just sharing a little bit about your career and what led you to specialize in influencer marketing? Yeah, absolutely. So my career is interesting because I kind of like tripped and fell into influencer marketing. It wasn't something like when I was in college, it wasn't a thing. So I, when I graduated, I worked a little bit in advertising and then I worked for a tech startup. And then I was living in Miami at the time. I also live in Miami now. And I ended up getting poached by Google. Google was setting up remote guerrilla marketing teams in select cities because they launched Google Plus, which was their response to Facebook. And so they wanted these marketing teams in these cities to get influencers to use the platform.

So I built a team in Miami and was responsible for getting everyone from, you know, the real housewives to the Miami Heat to like nonprofit organizations, really anybody and everybody with influence in Miami to use the platform. But my role was constantly changing and evolving. And I ended up after a short period of time, like a couple months, I ended up leading all of lifestyle and fashion nationally on Google Plus. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. And so again, this was a startup within Google.

So I was bringing brands and influencers and fashion celebrities to the platform. and the platform was always changing. So I ended up producing a lot of content with these influencers and celebrities. It wasn't just about getting them and building a community on the platform, but even more like getting them to produce content. I patented a product while I was working on Google Plus called Shoppable Hangouts. Basically, it was a product where you were able to shop while you were tuned in to a live streamed what was called Google Hangout on Air.

Right? Oh, my God. Definitely. Yeah, so I launched it with Diane Van Furstenberg and the CFDA and Eva Chin. Like, this was before anything was shoppable. Yeah, I got to do a lot of fun stuff. I moved to New York. And then after a while, I left Google Plus and jumped over to the hardware team at Google,

where I led all of influencer and celebrity across hardware. So I launched, at the time, it was Google's first micro-influencer community. Micro-influencers weren't even called micro-influencers, but I launched the first community and it's snowballed in today, it's Team Pixel, and so I started that. I launched Pixel 1, Pixel 2, did so many influencer events and worked with celebrities. I left Google and went to Lyft, where I became the director of entertainment. and culture. And I led all of their influencer efforts and cultural partnerships. From there, that was when COVID hit, like two years into my role there. And I moved back to Miami. And I was

working from home. And I decided to start my consultancy on the side as a side hustle. Lots of people were coming to me and ask advice. And I was like, hey, like, I'm going to just have this little side hustle. and I had my son, who is now four years old, I left lift, and I thought, I was like, okay, I'm going to consult and see how this goes, and then a job at Hems and hers kind of fell in my lap, and I became head of entertainment and culture there, and I was there for a year and change and got to build out their first ever ambassador program, launched a huge partnership with Kristen Bell, and then I said, you know what, I really liked consulting before, And I want to continue doing it.

And that was over two and a half years ago. And I've been consulting full time ever since. And so I basically, I work with all sorts of brands. I'm vertical agnostic. And I come in and I help build and execute influencer, celebrity, strategic brand partnership strategies. So I tend to wear a lot of hats, you know, when I work with the various brands. And it's a lot of fun because I get to.

work for industries that I normally, you know, I wouldn't work full time for, but I get to have a taste of what it's like. And then lastly, I am, as you mentioned, when you entered me, I'm a professor of influencer marketing and celebrity partnerships at Parsons. I've been teaching this class for like two years now. Wow. Yeah. And so it's a virtual class. It's a higher education class, but it is a lot of fun to be able to instill my knowledge and others. So that's about me. It's such an opportunity to kind of stretch into a different format, right? Because I think like teaching versus actually kind of educating teams on what influencer marketing is,

like there is a difference. And it's really cool to kind of stretch yourself into that kind of industry. Definitely, definitely. So given your experience in your career, what are some of the biggest lessons you've learned, really moving between those in-house brand roles and your consultancy because they're both very different and I think we have folks who have listened who are kind of in in either bucket but very rarely have that crossover so curious to hear some of those lessons you've learned yeah I mean I've learned a lot over the years I think something that I see in both my brand and house career

and consulting is setting boundaries and it's something that that is really hard to do. And I feel like I finally at the end of my in-house career, like mastered being able to set boundaries. And everybody says to you when you say you're a consultant, oh, that's great. Like you set your own hours, you know, but it's however much you put into it. So that's how much you get out. And so it's really, it's really tricky when it's your own thing to set those boundaries. And so I find myself working more than I've ever worked because it's hard for me just to say, I'm going to pause and I'm going to do this tomorrow because when it's your own, you know, all you're putting off is kind of your own time. And so I think

that's a big learning that I've had. Another big learning is you need a support system. When you're in-house, there's an automatic support system builds in. And when you're a consultant, it can be lonely sometimes. You know, you're working on your own island. And so it's really important to have mentors, people that are doing consulting as well. There's groups of consultants. Like, I belong to an amazing group called The Board. And it's consultants from, you know, all different industries and specializing in all different things. And it's a great resource for me. If something comes up in my business and I just don't know who to turn to, I'll turn to the board, which is really helpful. I also, I have a team of about five women who are all part time as well. So I like

to say that I kind of built like a collective. I don't have an agency and I don't want to be an agency, but I have this collective of people that I can, you know, pick and pull from if I need help on things. And I think that was a really hard lesson at first because I didn't want to ask for help because I wanted to do it all. You know, I was getting the paycheck. I wanted to keep the paycheck and it's not sustainable. It's just, it's absolutely not sustainable. And so I would say if somebody is, you know, getting into consulting and that's what they want to do, make sure you have that support system and seek out those people that can, A, help you execute, but B, also help you when you have those questions and you don't know who to turn to.

Yeah. As someone who's consulted for probably about six years, I would completely echo everything that you're saying. I would say there's a lot of pros, of course. doing it, especially full-time, but there are some cons and the loneliness factor is definitely one of them. And also just opportunity for advancement and having a leader that's pushing you to do better and teaching you things. And so you can certainly find that elsewhere, but you have to kind of take the time to seek that out, right, or to build that support

system around you. So that's such a great reminder. Thanks for sharing. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to dive in a little bit more into some of the partnerships that you have worked on. So again, you know, we talked about Google and Lyft and hymns and hers and also just brands that you've worked with on a consulting angle. Do you have maybe one or two if two come to mind just campaigns that stand out to you as examples of how brands can tell stories through culture? Yes, I definitely have a favorite. When I was at Lyft, I led all of celebrity and influencer partnerships around pride and our activation at pride. And Lyft always had a strong stance and, you know, and had a moment around pride. So that was a lot of fun for me.

Specifically, the last year that I was there, I built out a partnership with Rupal Drag Race winner, Sasha Valour. And Sasha was just the most amazing creative person to work with. And why I love this is because we were at Lyft, we were launching pronouns within, all pronouns within the app for riders and drivers. And so that was, I mean, this was a few years ago now, I guess, like, probably probably like four or five years ago. And so this was really exciting for everybody. And so we teamed up with Sasha to help tell this story. So there were so many extensions of the partnership from,

I remember we went deep in Brooklyn and did this whole photo video shoot with Sasha. We, Sasha has a show called Nightgay and we were a lead sponsor of nightgowns for however many shows that Sasha did. We ended up working with Sasha to help design our New York Pride Parade float and all the activities that came on the float. So this wasn't just like an endorsement deal where like, hey, we want you to be the face. We really tapped into Sasha to be the creative director for this and really provided input. We did a special influencer event at an amazing restaurant in New York and Sasha and all Sasha's friends performed.

It just felt like there were so many extensions. And it really, a lot of people, a lot of brands during pride, you know, they rainbow wash. And this did not feel like that at all. It was like a true partnership where we had something to say and we really came together and both sides benefited from this partnership. So that was, I would say, you know, not the biggest celebrity that I've worked with, but just one of the, you know, just a really amazing way to integrate the brand into a cultural moment. And I can just see from how you're talking about it, like for anyone who's watching with video, like you just completely lit up talking about that. So it's so clear that you have, you know, such passion for that.

And I think it's such a good example of thinking of these partnerships, not only as leveraging channels like social or. email or our sort of traditional marketing channels. I think there are just other opportunities to kind of open up the aperture for more, you know, more awareness and ways to leverage the partnership. So kudos to you and the team. That's an amazing, amazing campaign. Thanks. And so in terms of scaling influencer programs, I think this is, we tend to hear this quite a bit, that scaling influencer programs can feel really overwhelming and scary to a lot of folks. And you've obviously had the opportunity to really scale them from the ground up. In your opinion, what does it really take to bring that influencer program from the sort of test and learn, experiment phase,

all the way to fully operationalized? Yeah, great question. The biggest thing that you need is time. And I see brands over and over again, but I see them saying, okay, we want to run one influencer campaign with 10 to 15 influencers. You're not going to have enough data points. So I instruct people that they need at least six months, if not more, to really test, iterate, test again, get those data points and learn what is working for the brand. The other thing that's really important to have a fully operationalized program is all the internal systems need to be ironed out. And this takes time. So from the start, when I start working with clients, I want to meet with legal. I want to understand if they have a contract in place. If not, I need to work with

them to build that contract out. I want to make sure that I know who all the stakeholders are. A lot of times when influencer is new for a brand, there are so many stakeholders. Ten people want to review the content. And that's not sustainable. So the best way to really get influence marketing moving at companies is to have a lean team. The less cooks in the kitchen, the better. Like one of my favorite clients that I've had for a year and a half, it's me and VP of brand and basically like, that's it. Like, you know, like, and we have a system in place.

It's so important as well to really build these systems. systems. So I use Google spreadsheets to really keep track of everything. You have to be, you know, teams have to be so organized with this. Like how, how is the process from the pitching, negotiating, to contracting, to keeping track of the deliverables to, you know, every influencer I work with gets a content feedback doc where they drop their content in. And like, all of these things take time to set up. And for teams, and, and for teams, It takes a little bit of getting used to. Once this is moving, it's a well-oiled wheel and it works.

It just takes a little bit of time. I think another last thing that is really important going from the testing phase to being fully operational is to have ways to attribute and measure success. A lot of brands don't have those mechanisms in place, like, you know, whether. It's like we need to create discount codes. We need to create UTM links. We need to have a way to aggregate this data. You need a social listening tool. Like I am an ambassador for tracker, and that's how I track all the influencer content

and keep it in one beautiful place where I'm able to report back on it. But a lot of brands, they don't have these tools. And so I think it can be overwhelming. And so that's why it also takes time. It takes that six months to really set it up. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, big fan of tracker as well. Thanks for shouting that out.

I'm just curious on this, too. Where do you see the next big shifts happening in influencer marketing? I know that's kind of a loaded question. It's also very much time stamped. You know, we're recording this in September of 2025. But just curious, like where you see the space evolving coming up. Yeah, it's funny because I feel like two years ago, I or even more, I started saying, you know, like AI and now it's like, okay, we're here. Like that's not the future. It's here. I would say, I actually just read this article a couple weeks ago in Vogue about who the new influencer is.

And it's interesting what they say because they say that the new influencer, our community leaders. And this is fascinating to me because for one of my brands, Bamba, is one of my favorite brands to work with, we have been tapping into communities and community leaders for some time now. So, for example, we partnered with this national moms group called Misha, and it's in select cities like L.A., New York, Miami. and the influence isn't, yes, there's influencers in the group, of course,

but the influence isn't happening from that. The influence is happening on a WhatsApp chat where all the moms are chatting. And, you know, now if you search for bombas, it's like there's so many people like saying, oh, we love bombas for our toddlers. And so we are, like the community leader talks about us. And that's kind of, I see that shift happening. We also, for Bambas, we recently partnered with and have a partnership for this next year with Diplos Run Club. So it's a kind of.

Yeah. So it's a community. It's a community of runners. And, you know, so I think I'm seeing that shift a little bit. And it just solidified that wrote an article on it. But I'm seeing that. You know, I also think that. And this, this is here now.

It's not really like this is happening. But there's the blurring of lines between influencer and affiliate. Yeah, yeah. It really used to be like influencer is sitting in brand and is all about, you know, brand awareness. Then there's a shift where, okay, no, like we can use influencers for growth. We're going to sell with influencers. and now it's not just we're going to sell with influencers, they're going to be affiliates. Because before, like, the affiliate program used to sit somewhere else in growth or its own

affiliate team in organizations, and now it's blended. So a platform that a lot of my clients are using, and I like to use a shopmai, and I think they do a great job of, you know, really blending like the affiliate with influencer. And so I'm seeing that a lot. And then I think, you know, this has been here. And I mentioned it with the product that I patented, but social shopping. Like, it is here. TikTok shop, YouTube shopping, whatnot.

Like social shopping is, it's going to grow even further than what it is. So I think that is something. I wish that when I patented a product 10 years ago, like, it was today, but, you know, early adapter. We're big fans of whatnot, and we're in a couple of those sort of micro communities that you're speaking of. And I think one thing we've kept hearing this year and we've been sharing on the podcast is that like niches the new mainstream. So like taking things out of sort of the mainstream media and bringing them into their own like sort of micro communities. and that's really where the culture and discussion and community is happening these days. And so, first of all, love that Vogue wrote about that.

We'll have to link that article in the show notes because I think that would be really great for listeners to read too. Shifting gears a little bit as we kind of round out the conversation. On the influencer and celebrity partnership side, is there a brand that you think is doing this really well at the moment and why? I love what Poppy is doing. They, I mean, it spans from influencer, celebrity, community, college. Like, they, they're painting the town with this. And I think they've just done such a great job implementing themselves in culture. I think, you know, they obviously have Alex Aral, the biggest influencer at the helm.

They featured her, along with some of her friends in superiors. Super Bowl commercial. They did get some slack around Super Bowl, but honestly, like, I think that the, any press is good press. I was going to say, this was good press for her, I feel. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I think I, I don't know if you saw recently on social with what they did. I thought it was so smart with college rush. They basically sent to all the sororities, like, you know, like try it all. for example they sent them poppy cans with like tried out like on them so they're like customized cans and it's just like those little touch that personalization um i just think that they're they're so smart and then of course like you know on the influencer on boxing side i don't know if you've seen any of their um box their their boxes that they've been sending out but they're they're just so thoughtful and unique and creative it really sticks out in the feed when

and influencer is doing their unboxing. So I think they're doing just a great job. Fun. I'll have to look up some of those additional touch points that they've worked on because, I mean, they've been, I feel like, top of the brand and marketing space for such a while, for better or worse, but also they're doing some awesome stuff just lately. So I have to check that out. Thanks for sharing.

So I want to talk a little bit about your experience teaching at Parsons. I am very curious to hear your response to this question, but what are some things that students are asking you right now that surprises you most about the space? Or is there anything that they're curious about that we as marketers should know just from a consumer standpoint or an up-and-coming marketing standpoint, just things to be kind of aware of and thinking about? Yeah. So I think that I love teaching because it, makes me feel like I am in tune with what is going, what is going on. And again, it's a higher education class. So it's all ranges of ages and experiences and everything. So it's not just

like, you know, like Gen Z. And I think what's interesting, it's less about what they ask me and more about who they tell me influences them and the shifts. And the repents. And the repent. competitive nature. So I have every week there is some sort of assignment that's due. And a lot of the weeks they have to, you know, choose influencers for certain brands and tell me why they choose them or who influences them. And it's really fascinating to see how much the celebrity led brands come up. So Road, for example, comes up all the time. You know, road, for example, comes up all the time. know. So Kylie comes up all the time. There's so many of these celebrity-led brands. And so I think that is interesting that really like their favorite influencers are these celebrities who have

brands. And everybody in the influencer world, now influencers celebrities, they're all trying to have their own merch or whether it's alcohol. company or you know beauty brand like perfume like everybody is trying to do it um but it's clearly resonating because that is what people that's what my students are gravitating towards i would also say um that the blurred lines of being able to identify when they're being advertised to Um, with influencers is something that comes up a lot. And as they're, as they're doing their assignments, I see that. That I, there's, I do a whole week on the FTC and guidelines. And because it's so, it's smart important that I want these, these students to leave and go to the respective brands or wherever they're going to work and say, no, we have to put hashtag ad on this or hashtag brand partner, like whatever it is. Like, I want them to know these rules. And it's interesting when they do their assignment, I asked them if there has been a time where they didn't realize they were being advertised to by an influencer. And there is so much of that.

And some people talk about supplements, some people talk about, you know, various things. But I think that is also really interesting and how even though the FTC just redid their guidelines like almost like two years ago now. it's still there's still so much ambiguity and lack of clarity in disclosing and it's it's unfortunate because people are falling for you know what they think is the truth and it's absolutely i i also think um in terms of communicating with the students right they're they're obviously looking to have this knowledge around influencer marketing and and so as you speak to them what are some of the pieces of advice that you're giving them as they're looking to enter the influencer space post you know post grad yeah so as i mentioned when we first started chatting like i tripped and fell into

influencer it wasn't like i had some back knowledge but what i was really passionate about was culture i constantly am consuming was consuming and still am today consuming culture so reading up on what, you know, the latest fashion trend is, you know, following, scrolling constantly on Instagram and TikTok, reading all sorts of newsletters about culture and what's going on. I even, you know, I'm an older millennial, and so I even hired somebody last year, fresh out of college, to send me a newsletter every week on what she thought was cool, which she's not that's cool i know i know i was like i need i need to be in touch with like what the youth is is into so yeah so you know i think um i think that my advice to somebody that's

wanting to get into influencer marketing is to ingrain yourself in culture to really know who the influencers are know who the landscape is know the latest trends on ticot i think that is, you know, something that if you have that passion, I think is really important. And now also, like when I talk to my students, there's so many different paths that you can take to touch influencers. So you could be like what I did on the brand side of things. You could work for a influencer agency where you're, you know, managing influencers and getting them brand deals. You could work for influencer technology. You could work in the creator economy. on a startup that's helping creators make money.

There's so many ways that you can touch influencer now. Yeah, absolutely. Well, on that, you know, we would just love to be able to stay in touch with you and everything that you're working on and just, yeah, connect with you online. So where is the best place to do that? Are you a LinkedIn person? Are you on Instagram? Are you on both?

Yes. So I am not an influencer. so I'm just going to say that. But I would say LinkedIn is a great place to connect with me. It's just my name, Betty Ann Fialgov. And then I would say Instagram as well. My Instagram is open, so anybody can come and follow me. My Instagram handle is at just underscore call underscore me underscore B.A.

Because my friends call me B.A. I love it. Oh, my gosh. So fun. this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for just sharing your insights and everything you're learning lately. Just super excited to see what you continue to do. And also we'll have to check back in with you soon and hear the latest on the industry and kind of what you're seeing because, I mean, as you know and as our listeners now, things are changing every single day. So that'll be good to check in.

I would love that. Thank you so much for having you. This is so fun. Thank you. Thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, I would love your feedback. And if you're ready to take things to the next level, sign up for my weekly newsletter in the show notes. You'll get weekly career and marketing insights straight to your inbox. And if you have an idea for a future marketing happy hour episode, shoot me an email. Hello at marketing happy HR.com. Thank you again and I'll see you next Thursday. Thank you.