Marketing Happy Hour - Content Creation + The Future of Digital | Ashlie Head of L'Oréal

Episode Date: April 14, 2022

In this episode of the Marketing Happy Hour podcast, we're chatting with Ashlie Head, Digital Content Manager at L'Oréal, who leads content creation and digital strategy for the Lancôme skincare division. Ashlie shares a unique perspective, and offers advice on:  How to tailor digital campaigns to different consumer personas How sharing your ideas + feedback confidently can positively impact your career The future of digital: How to navigate the Metaverse A behind the scenes look at content creation for a major beauty brand + MORE! Grab a drink and listen in to this Marketing Happy Hour conversation!  ----- Other episodes you'll enjoy if you enjoyed Ashlie's episode: Top Tips for Creatives | Lisa Meyer of Beekman 1802 Content Marketing 101: Creating an Effective Social Media Presence | Elyse Estrella of Wine Enthusiast Getting Innovative: Pitching and Launching New Content Strategies | Michelle Westfall of Universal Parks & Resorts ____ Say hi! DM us on Instagram and share your favorite moments from this episode - we can't wait to hear from you!  Please also consider rating the show and leaving a review, as that helps us tremendously as we move forward in this Marketing Happy Hour journey and create more content for all of you. NEW: Check out our website! NEW: Join our email list! Follow Ashlie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ashliehead/ Connect with Ashlie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashlie-head-60b579119/ Follow MHH on Instagram: https://instagram.com/marketinghappyhr Follow MHH on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/marketing-happy-hour/ Subscribe to our LinkedIn newsletter, Marketing Happy Hour Weekly: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/marketing-happy-hour-weekly-6950530577867427840/ Join our Marketing Happy Hour Insiders LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9238088/

Hey there, welcome to the Marketing Happy Hour podcast, where each week we're learning career-defining advice, powerful social media strategies, unique creative tips, groundbreaking influencer marketing tactics, and more from marketing experts that represent some of the world's leading brands. Let's dive in. Grab a drink and join your hosts, Cassie and Erica, for this week's episode. This week, we're chatting with Ashley Head, Digital Content Manager at L'Oreal, specifically for the Lancome skincare sector. On this episode, Ashley offers a unique insight to the true power of networking,

advocating for yourself, the nitty gritty of working in digital marketing, and practical advice around briefing, content creation, and the future of digital. I've known Ashley since I was about 10 years old, and I've had the pleasure to watch her career blossom over the years. I'm excited for you to get an inside look at her amazing story and hear her tips she shared just for you. To set the stage for today's discussion, I want to define what a metaverse is. You've probably heard this term tossed around quite a bit recently, but just in case, I

pulled a really great description from Vice that says, it's a 3D model of the internet, basically a place parallel to the physical world where you spend your digital life. This definition is going to come into play here soon, but in the meantime, grab a drink and listen in with us. Hey, Ashley, how are you? Hi, I'm great. How are you doing? Good, good. Eric and I are so excited to talk to you today. And you and I have known each other forever. And we did one of our first internships together in 2015, which is wild to think about. But you've come a long way since then. And so we'll talk about all of those things. But before we jump

in, we have a very important question for you that we ask all of our guests. What is in your glass tonight? Because it is marketing happy hour after all. Yes. So currently I'm still at my office. So right now I'm just drinking a big thing of water, which I drink so much water all day long. But if I was out of the office and able to have a cocktail right now, I'm like utterly obsessed with spicy margaritas as of like the last year. I never drank tequila ever before this. And now I like crave a spicy margarita every weekend. So if I could, that's what I'd be drinking. I love that. I'm going to jump in there and ask you if you've tried

onda because and Cassie's laughing because she knows I'm gonna ask this but have you tried onda it's um Shea Mitchell's seltzer brand tequila seltzer brand it's so good and if you like a good spicy margarita I would recommend adding like tahini and some jalapenos to one of those and you'll you'll love it okay wow Erica I'm literally going to order this because I am like addicted, not actually addicted, but like, if I'm going to have a cocktail, that sounds like my dream drink. And I already have like, um, tahini like the big bottle in my cabinet. I like my jalapeno, I'll slice them up if I'm making one at home.

So I definitely need to try that. Thank you. Absolutely. Well, I am also on the water train here. I'm about to go work out after this, so I can't really indulge in my typical wine, but that's what I have going on. Yeah. Same seltzer. So form of water, but water all around, which is totally fine.

Yeah. Gotta keep hydrated all day long. Exactly. Hydration every year. Well, Ashley, super excited to dive in. I'm super excited to learn from you. Can you just tell us a bit about your background prior to starting with L'Oreal and the process of landing the position you're currently in? Yes, absolutely. So I currently am the content manager for Longcomb Skin in the US market. And prior to that, I'll just take you back to when I was in college. In college, I knew I wanted to do something super creative. I always knew since I was 12 years old, I wanted to move to New York City. And I wanted to like have a really exciting, thriving career. So I was always driven by that idea of moving to New York.

And in college, I was very open to the idea of just doing something in a creative realm, whether that be beauty, music, fashion. I was kind of all over the place, but very interested in anything digital and honestly writing as well. I love to write and that's my major was English editing, writing and media, which was kind of like a hybrid of digital communications and English. So it was kind of a hodgepodge major, but it honestly was like the ideal thing because I got to kind of dip my toes in all different areas during college. During my time at Florida State, I created with two other amazing individuals, Natalie and Hannah, a magazine on campus called Strike. And it was a lifestyle publication that kind of took into account music, fashion, makeup, kind of news events, everything. And it was supposed to be like a version of, you know, a campus magazine that wasn't just targeted to women, but everyone on campus.

And I ran all different content shoots during my time on the, during the magazine. And that's where I really got a ton of experience with like creating content. And we had a staff of 54 people at that point. So it was a lot of experience of like managing all different teams from PR to finance to, you know, marketing to styling. So that was an incredible experience. And it's really cool because now it's on all different campuses, probably like seven different campuses around the country. So it's really cool. Yeah, so that was awesome. So during that time, I like really started to get excited about creating content. And I knew that was something I wanted to pursue

when I graduated. So it's very interesting. And sorry, this is like a very long winded answer, but I, in March of 2017, before I graduated, applied to probably four positions at L'Oreal. And since L'Oreal, and for anyone that doesn't know, L'Oreal Paris on commercials or L'Oreal hair care, but L'Oreal is a huge conglomerate that owns everything from Garnier Fructis to Giorgio Armani makeup to Ralph Lauren fragrances to Lancome to Maybelline. Like it really is just a huge conglomerate of all different brands. But anyways, I applied to lots of different roles. And when I applied, I felt like I was just dropping my application in a big black hole, which was really stressful. And for anyone in college, I have a lot of sympathy for that, like stressful feeling of just, you know, applying somewhere and not knowing when or how or if you will ever hear back, because that's definitely how I felt

during my senior year. So I did that, heard absolutely nothing. And I was just applying to all different companies, publications, magazines, music industry, things everywhere and anything that was creative. I graduated not knowing where I was going to go, but I knew I was going to fly up to New York. And I had the luxury of staying with my aunt and uncle who live on the Upper West Side for a month. And I just networked nonstop. I would go and like meet with anyone and everyone that someone I knew was connected to. And I just started building connections. One day, randomly, a girl that I had studied abroad with DM'd me on Instagram. I had not spoken to her in like two years. And her name's Maria and I'm internally grateful for her, but she DM'd me. She saw that I was in New York and she was like, hey girl, my internship is wrapping up at L'Oreal. I feel like you would be an incredible fit for the role that I'm completing. Do you have any interest? And I was like, Maria, do I have interest? I applied to so many positions. I never heard back. And I was just like, so thrilled. And she was like, Oh my God, awesome. Like you have such great

experience from like your time in college. Like, why don't you come to the office and I can just show you around and like, talk to you about the role. So long story short, she did that. And that was really like the best thing to happen because she was able to directly connect me to a hiring manager. And I went through a very gruesome, difficult interview process of like three or four separate interviews with different people and I got the internship, and the way it works at L'Oreal is you get a 12 month trial run within the company to see if you're a good fit, if you can make it to a full-time employment. So I did that for one year and it was incredible. I learned more than I could have ever imagined. I was primarily on Maybelline doing shopper marketing as a 12 month intern. And during that time, you are treated like you're a full employee, but you're not, you're not fully like, you know,

baked into the company. You're not getting like your benefits, you're getting paid decently, but you're not like full time. And they have no agreement to hire you on after that. So it is a little stressful because you spend that year, like building connections, working extremely hard, and then you really don't know what's going to come out of that. Yeah, it was very scary. But also like you felt really supported throughout the process and HR was really helpful with, you know, connecting you to people based on your interests. So I was super vocal that I wanted to do something in digital. So either social or PR or marketing, like I was really open to it, but I knew I wanted to be creative.

And at the tail end of the internship, once you hit about month 10, you can start interviewing internally with the company. So there are a few different roles open. And there was like a dream role open at Kiehl's, which is an amazing skincare brand that operates almost like an indie brand for L'Oreal. And it's such a cool brand with a lot of amazing like the whole ethos behind the brand is just really incredible. And I met with the woman that became my boss and it was a social media coordinator role. And I was able to get that role, start doing community management, which shout out to any community managers out there, because it is a very, it's a very taxing role and there's a lot that goes into it, but I did that

for a while. And then I started being able to kind of be creative and do Instagram stories. And then that's where I started to really find my like niche. And I just like really loved creating content. And I got to start traveling to influencer events all over the place. And yeah, this is a really long answer now. So anyways, I did that for almost three, I got promoted and became like the content strategist for all organic social. And then I did that for almost three years. And then now I'm at Lancôme, which I'm sure we'll get into, but that's, that's how I got here. I'm sorry that I just gave the longest answer. No, that was so good. And you weaved in so many great lessons already, which we'll get to

career lessons that you want to share and everything, but just the power of connections and maintaining relationships over time, like you and I did and having you on the podcast, you know, that is so powerful. And that's obviously what led you to where you are today. So kudos to you for that. And that's just amazing and thankful for her, for connecting you to that hiring manager and just some amazing lessons in there. So go out network, connect with people. It's a powerful thing. So we would love to hear a little bit of the behind the scenes. So with you and your content creation process, how do you strategize and kind of brainstorm and plan for content at Lancôme and how do you identify content gaps and upcoming trends to activate as well? Yeah, that's an amazing question. So a lot to unpack here.

Lancôme is a French-based brand. So L'Oreal, like our headquarters for the United States is in New York, but it's a French brand. And Lancôme is Lancôme Paris. So we have our, what we call a DMI, which is our global team that sits in France. And as you can imagine, the French version of beauty and like the French aesthetic is oftentimes very different than what is resonating in the US. So I would say and we can dive into this deeper, but that is my biggest challenge and my biggest, you know, excitement in my role is how to make a brand relevant in the United States that, of course, you know, is a super well-known brand, but in the mix of all these incredible independent makeup companies that have been popping up over the last like five years, how do you stay relevant in a ever-changing market in the beauty industry? So planning for content is for me, I have to follow a global vision that the brand sets in stone. But what I have to do is see, you know, for campaigns

or new launches, you know, we see the content, we review it, and then I have to establish where there are content gaps within the U.S. And for me, I mean, everything that is super, you know, significant in the United States, you know, ties into diversity, representation, showing real skin, nothing retouched, nothing that shows that it's been touched on Photoshop. And that is where there is a struggle that, you know, this idea of beauty is different in different areas of the world but here the authenticity is always what is going to resonate with consumers um so that is where i kind of have to assess these gaps so for example we just had like our tier a huge launch and it's called triple c or hcf triple serum and it's this incredible facial serum, right? And the French market that is our

global market hands us all these great assets, but they're super overproduced. So you have like the actors from Mean Girls, Amanda Seyfried, or I don't even know all these different movies or TV shows that she's been on. And she's like this, you know, A-lister actress and she's in commercials and, you know, she's representing the product, which is great and you need that visibility, but like, how is it going to resonate with a U.S. shopper? So I assessed all the content that we received for this campaign and saw that there was no real women of all the different ages represented. So then I had to develop and produce a huge video shoot that had women express their opinions on the product in a very testimonial manner. And that was a really exciting concept for me because

I got to work with a casting director and really nail what is a real woman that looks relatable, but also has that aspirational beauty look that is innate to Lancome. And that is a challenge because you want to inspire and like, you know, show this gorgeous, beautiful skin that has a youthful radiance to it. But you also want to show someone that has not been, you know, has a ton of Botox or filler in their face. There's a lot of balancing that because that is super trendy in the US too. So as you can see, it's a lot of balancing that because that is super trendy in the U.S. too. So as you can see, it's a challenge, but something like that is really important and exciting. So I got to interview five different women from the ages of, I believe, 28 to 65 and really understand what their experience was with the products, you know, them applying it on their skin,

like what is beauty to them? What is aging gracefully? What does that mean to them? what their experience was with the products, you know, them applying it on their skin, like what is beauty to them? What is aging gracefully? What does that mean to them? And, you know, balance emotional content with actual like hard-hitting claims and benefits from the product. So that's really exciting. And that's a shoot that I did in November.

And now it is running in Sephora Media this week, starting like, or no, last week it started. So it's really fun. Now we're getting to see media results um see how it performs in the campaign which is exciting that's great and i feel like i can relate as well um i worked in the beauty industry for a hair care brand and types of challenges um just in creating content uh in the. And there were a few of our international partners that sold our products that definitely had different messaging. We definitely ran into some struggles with that, but it was really cool to just hear how you were able to take that and

run and kind of just make sure that all these different voices were represented. So that's amazing. That's really cool. Yeah. And even, yeah, it's even things like, for example, you know, I'm specific in skincare, but my partners on my content team do makeup and fragrance too for Lancome. And something as simple as, in other areas, anti-aging is perfectly fine to say. Like you're fully marketing as a product that's anti-aging, but for the U S consumer, and as you know, the three of us are all consumers of products here, that has a negative connotation to it, right? Anti-aging we're all going to age though. We're

all going to, you know, get older. And what does that mean? You should embrace that, right? And it's so different here because, thank god like we're in this you know time where mental health and also just embracing who you are is so important and is very um thankfully is really pushed right now all over like online and on social media so that wouldn't work here to just like put it in a negative light instead here it's like you know just talking really about ingredients and what are their benefits and like, what are the results? Because the, also the U S you know, consumers super knowledgeable on like hard hitting, you know, result driven content. Um, but yeah, just certain things like that, or just showing

women, you know, that are like all different types of women showing diversity. So also showing like size diversity, showing different skin types, different skin concerns, and not just having one idea of beauty. And not to say that Lancome, like the global brand does that, but it's just has to be really specific over here in the West. Yes, absolutely. And I have a follow up to that. When, how reactive are you to trends in the market and how reactive are you to trends on social media even even creating content um to go out publicly um yeah just let you hear the behind the scenes of that yeah i love that question so to be honest i wish that we could be more reactive but being a part of a huge company, there's a lot of legal implications and

a lot of things you have to get approved. So for example, I'll take you to like when I ran social at Kiehl's. If you guys remember when that Bernie Sanders like meme was going around where he was like in the coat and like sitting, you know, I don't even, I forget when it was from like the inauguration or something. We thought it would be so funny to put like Bernie Sanders on like a moisturizer and say, like Bernie says to keep your skin hydrated or whatever, you know, like something like that. And we like run it by the team and they're like, absolutely no, we can never do that. Like we have no rights to that. But a different brand that is like independent and you know, doesn't have as many followers or not as many eyes on it, like definitely could do that and be seen

as way more trendy and fun and exciting. So in some ways I wish we could be more reactive, but the way that we kind of can tap into that in the best way possible is my partner on my team, Willow, who runs, she has my same job, but on the makeup category um she's having an issue on friday to do long comb makeup looks for euphoria so based off of all the euphoria trends and then we'll make all different pins for pinterest and like do step-by-step routines so like that's a way we can tap into like a trending or exciting moment that like we don't have all the legal implications um for me with skincare there's less like you know day in and day out trends that are happening that's more like overarching ideas that

are going on throughout the year but like right now on tiktok i'm seeing all these girls talk about and guys talking about slugging like skincare which is like putting like vaseline all over the face yeah and like loading up all this moisture and then going to sleep and having like perfectly hydrated moisturized skin in the morning. So like, that's something that if I wanted to like, try to have like a reactive photo shoot on something, thinking of how do we tap into that? But I think it's also being mindful of, does it make sense for your brand to tap into a trend? Or are you just going to look like you're on the bandwagon? Because some things don't work for brands and like you shouldn't I can't go make long comb something that it's not or you know

kind of pull it is like a luxury brand and can't always you know want to tap into everything that like could be fun I love that and I have a follow-up about something you said earlier you mentioned how the French team presented an idea. They have this campaign with Amanda and it was something that you didn't feel would translate well in the U S market. How do you, so for someone that is kind of in a similar place where they need to share this feedback and present new ideas and push back, essentially a lot of people that can kind of be a scary situation to go to a team like that and say, this isn't going to work. I think we need to do X, Y, Z instead. And this is kind of more of a career driven question, but do you have any tips for presenting new ideas or sharing that feedback

to people in a really great, educated, confident manner? Yeah, I think that's such a good question because it is such a growing pain that you kind of have to go through in your career to know how to speak up in a way that is, you know, respectful, but also getting your point across. Yeah, I would say in that particular vein, for that, you know, project, it is difficult, because of course, we're going to have to use the beautiful assets that they create as we launch a campaign. But it's kind of like the subsequent content that comes after a launch. How are we kind of driving that? And I had a lot of ideas. And when I first presented them to my coworker on the French side, you know, it is intimidating. And I'm not going to lie that it's not intimidating because you're

talking to people that, you know, run the brand and create like the skeleton of the brand and you're kind of like the bits and pieces that get added to it. I think it's really just thinking clearly about why, you know, having the right reasons to eloquently speak to it, but also having data to support it is a really big indicator that you did your homework. If I can visually show that, you know, this media is going to perform better because based on X, Y, and Z from a previous campaign shows that, you know, institutional assets do not perform as strongly as more non not overly produced content, then I can kind of have a reason to show, hey, you know, we put X amount of spend behind this. And these are the results that were driven. I think also just sharing your point of view, like you should feel confident that you have an opinion that matters. And even if they don't

agree with it, that's totally fine, too. You know it's not, it's not going to be wrong to share your opinion. They hired you for a reason. They hired you so that you would have an opinion, have a point of view, have an experience that, you know, you have something to bring to the table. And you can't always think that it's going to be, you taken into account and then acted upon but at least they'll respect you for bringing it up and having a voice and that's something i actually wrote down before we talked that i wanted to say is a tip for anyone listening that feels nervous to talk and that was me a lot my first year at l'oreal i always kind of felt like i'm going to sit back and just listen which is great. You should listen.

There's a lot to be learned from people around the table, but I would notice all the time that I would be quiet. And then someone across from me or next to me would say exactly what I was thinking. And I was like, Oh, I could have said it and I could have added something to it. But now if I speak up, it's just going to sound like I'm piggybacking. And if I would have just had the confidence to share the idea from the start, I could have been seen as someone that like was confident, even though I was super young. So not being afraid to share your opinions, I think is great. Yes, that is so, so good.

Thank you for that advice. Something that people can definitely take away. I mean, I was just thinking as you were talking, like imagine all of the campaigns, all the products that wouldn't have been launched if just one person decided to stay quiet and not step up. So just thinking about that and thinking about how much of you as an individual, especially like you said, if they hire you for a reason to be in a certain position, cause they see this potential, you can make so many great things happen and you play a key role in your organization. So that alone, yeah, that alone should just help you be confident enough to speak up in those kinds

of situations. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. So switching back kind of to the social media side of things, there's a lot of things happening in the world of marketing and social media. So many platforms are evolving, a lot of new directions. What do you say, in your opinion, is sort of the future of social media content? And then for you and your team, what are some of the things that you're trying to kind of adapt towards? So we have videos, obviously a big one that's already in the works and happening everywhere, but there's the metaverse, there's all of these weird things happening. So what are you guys working on to kind of start evolving in those directions?

Yeah, I love that question as well. So yeah, I mean, for starters, I think it's so interesting to think about how Instagram used to be viewed as like a photo platform and now it's fully video. Like they are favoring video way more in the algorithm as everyone can see but also just the fact that you know you post a still photo now and it's not going to get nearly as many you know views or eyes on it because video is just going to rule time and time again also you have to think that instagram as you know successful as it is, is, you know, not it's not the new, fresh platform like TikTok is where people are wanting to post video and feel more innately expressive on that platform and less restricted as they do on Instagram. And I think TikTok was just born in this world of authenticity and not being scared to express yourself and be weird and be creative and funny. So I think that in of itself

is just shows that video rules over still content right now. So I think that's something to keep in mind that like, if I was still running social specifically, I would definitely, you know, put more emphasis on video. For me, in my current role, I work on content from a 360 perspective. So organic social content, yes, sure. But also like product detail page content for the website, you know, content for retailers like Sephora, Ulta, and even like advertisements, TV advertisements, like, you know, anything US specific in that world. So I still have to create still content is my point. But video is definitely the preference. I think all of this talk about VR and metaverse is extremely interesting. I want to be upskilled

beyond belief on this. I have a lot of feelings on it. I have personal feelings on it and then I have business feelings on it. I think what's going to be so interesting is to see how every single different industry is going to adapt and have to involve themselves in some way or another into this new technology. So I don't know if I'm going to speak as eloquently or smart because I'm not the most educated in all realms on it. But I think you have to think that any type of advertisements, you know, you see right now, there's a separation, you're watching it, you know, you're not involved in it physically. I think what's going to completely shift, I don't know how soon, is that you will literally in a sensorial way be almost like embedded in an advertisement virtually, right? So there's so much different ways that different industries can get involved and have some like substantial you know leads because their consumer is going to feel the experience of the product so much different in a metaverse in a virtual world

than they do traditional advertisement right nothing is going to be better than physically being in this world and i feel very confident about that, but I mean, I don't know. I just think advertising is going to completely shift, um, for the beauty world for L'Oreal. I actually have a training and like two weeks all about the metaverse. So like you think about like a big company has to jump on these things super quickly. How is some, something like L'Oreal going to get involved with NFTs? How are they going to get involved with advertising the metaverse eventually? VR? You think I had a whole meeting this week on virtual try on. So a skin analysis tool. So if I go on Longcomb's website and I want to get my skin checked for them to see what level my wrinkles are versus like

fine lines versus dark spots, like you can scan on the website. That's just technology that, you know, you have to be where the consumer is at and they're on their phone. How do you get them to, you know, have the experience that they would have in store with a beauty advisor talking to them and looking at their skin? Well, you have to create technology that offers them that experience virtually um so yeah there's a lot of ways i think trying on clothing it's going to be super interesting beauty products you know anything and everything i think it's going to completely shift everything that we know as it is today i think it's super super interesting mean, you think of our parents not walking around with the ability to have the entire world in their pocket and any answer that

they want with the click of a button. I think we're going to be able to be anywhere we want with a click of a button. We're going to be able to see someone, you know, like I just think, yeah, it's crazy. Our kids are going to be like, well, think about our parents, how they didn't have this metaverse. We couldn't go to buy on clothes virtually and make sure that they look good for their trip to Cabo or whatever. It's so interesting.

Yeah. It's going to completely shift everything in the way that we see digital and the way that we experience anything that we want to buy or sell. It's so insane to think about the way every single industry is going to change and evolve and adapt. But I think you also have to balance real life and not being too involved in that and, you know, having space to, to experience real experiences too. Yeah. It's definitely interesting to see it all unfold because at one point you're kind of like, this is scary. Do I even want to participate in this? And then the other point is like, well, if I don't hop on it now and learn as much as I can about it now, then I'll never, you know, I'll be behind the trends at the time. So that's definitely really interesting to hear

about your experience with that and how you guys are already kind of approaching that at L'Oreal because I also just sat through an NFT presentation about how brands can use NFTs and how influencers can even use NFTs. And I was mind blown. Right and I was mind blown but right I guess it just breeds this idea of exclusivity and like an exclusive experience when you think of NFTs but the metaverse I mean I guess anyone that has the ability to enter it can enter it but I think there will be a lot of exclusivity like elements to it um which I think as you will about that but it's just very crazy but yeah I agree with you of like you know you're gonna miss the train if you don't jump on it now I was I was at a table like at a dinner the other night with um my aunt and uncle and my cousins and

we were all talking about it and my boyfriend and we were all kind of like sharing what we thought about it and my aunt and uncle had literally no idea what we were talking about they're like metaverse what is that do I need it like and we try to explain it to them. And they're just like, I have no interest. Right. And that's fine. You know, like, I don't think everyone needs to be like super, super involved in it if they're not interested in it, but it's just going to completely take over in the next, you know, five, 10 years. So, yeah, absolutely. And I know with everything, anyone in marketing is kind of towing this line of thinking about these, these things coming up in the marketing and digital space, essentially, but also things that you're currently working in, in a given time, the campaigns you're focusing on the products. How do you kind of approach that mentally trying to figure out, okay, how do I focus on what we're doing now while also kind of planning for what's ahead, trying to figure out how can we evolve proactively before

it actually happens. And we have to kind of be reactive. I know it's kind of a deep question, but it's hard. It's hard because I think of just traditional marketing too, like everything we're working on is so far ahead anyways, right? Like from a product standpoint, when you're launching a product. So like today I had meetings on the product that we're launching in 2023, right? And like understanding our positioning on that product, what the competitive landscape is going to look like that product first, competitor brands. And so I've always kind of, ever since I've been at this company, I've always thought way ahead in the sense of product launches. So now that I'm thinking of like technology going through a huge evolution, like the biggest one

that I think we've seen in, you know, 10 years and the most significant one that we will see, I think like it really is hard to think, okay, how do we balance these two concepts going on at the same time? I think for me, it's using my time outside of work to educate myself. Like it's not something that I can sit and spend time reading about what all these things mean or how they're going to develop. It's like, I'm interested in listening to podcasts or reading articles about it, or just having discussions like this with people in my life to think what their opinions are on it. And then taking that and thinking, how could, how do I see this being implemented in my own industry? And I think right now, like anybody that's in various industries can think and be ahead of the game on like, how do you think you could come to the table and see how it might fit in? Right? Like, I don't know, it's, it's hard to say, but like, we're young, and we can like,

see through how it's going to be so involved in our lives soon. So kind of just coming to the table with your manager or the higher ups and like having a conversation of like, how this likely will be something we really have to think through in the near future um but also like signing up to be educated like doing the virtual or the course that I'm going to do in a couple weeks like that's an op you know an optional offering that L'Oreal is giving but I'm like okay absolutely I want to like take that course and and learn about it because it's a great opportunity. Definitely, there's nothing wrong with learning about it. And I'm thinking too, as we're chatting,

it's gotta be even harder with like a legacy or a luxury brand like Oncobol because they've been around forever, they've been established and they've, what they're currently doing works for them. And it might be hard to kind of communicate why they'll need to innovate with technology as we approach that. So absolutely interested to see what happens there.

Me too. But rewinding just a little bit, we wanted to hear a little bit about how you currently create content. So how have you utilized A-B testing with your different audiences as well? Yeah. So currently, I mean, an example of how we AB test is on our website. So creating like two different versions of what we call them PDPs. That's just like an acronym for product detail page. So it's the page on a website where if you hit a particular product, it's where you see all the imagery, all the text of like what the ingredient is, what the benefits are, a video, and explaining the whole product. So a way that we could A-B test is like we have, you know, our global assets that are super produced. And we do like that's test A versus test B, which is something that maybe that maybe you know like i had shot a few of those

assets and see how it performs against each other mine being a little bit less produced a little bit more like sephora friendly where like texture swipe on skin on non like super perfect skin or just lifestyle content and then just seeing how those perform against each other what's interesting is like different ages content performs performs different too, you know, so if you're targeting someone over 45 versus someone 28, you know, there might be a different, a different result. I'm always briefing our internal agency. So I'll like develop an entire conceptual like brief of everything I need to capture. It's a lot of budgeting of like how much money you have for a given shoot and what you can make do and all the camera people, the DPs. Like it's so amazing to see how much effort goes into a shoot. And I have so much appreciation for the process now because I'm a part of it. And I just always think of like the average consumer,

no shade to them at all. You just have no idea that what goes into a photo and everyone rightfully so feels like a photographer now with their phone. And they are, you are a photographer and you can take amazing photos with your phone but you have no idea how much goes into like professional photography or videography and so I just have so much fun you know coming up with a concept creating a brief briefing an agency working with the agency going on set and then so much goes into post-production too so that's a lot of my job too is like edits upon edits of like what music goes well with the

the video what supers which are like you know the text that comes on screen like all of that is kind of coming from me and my product marketers like help um But like the vision just seen it come from conception to fruition is just like super rewarding. So that's kind of how we create content. So it's a long process, but usually like a month and a half out, we're briefing and then we we plan that way. So Ashley, we've talked a lot about social and website content creation, but I know you also work on projects for out of home magazine, TV and streaming and more. So I'd love to hear just depending on the medium there, how does the look and feel different in your messaging? Yeah, that's a really good question

too, because I think it can look super different while still being cohesive and aligned with the campaign as a whole, but you have to think that the platform is so different and is served to such a specific audience. So you have to take that into account when you're kind of divvying up what your content is going to look like. So for example, a TV commercial, which we get from our global team, has to be a heroic, overarching message. And it has to have a heroic, overarching message. And it has to have a story arc within it. Because you have to grab someone's attention at the front.

You have to kind of keep them for that 15 to 30 seconds and likely have a call to action at the end or something that they can remember, right? And like, that's not going to be the same piece of content that is run on organic social when someone's already following the brand and understands like what your ethos is. So, for example, a commercial, like I said, would have a story overarching arc and be super specific, not specific. I honestly think it's trying to tell a really big message in a quick amount of time, but kind of hit on everything, but not go into detail. Right. And you don't have a caption, so you don't get to leave your viewer with anything

after the commercial stops. So we recently, my boss and I got to work not on, you know, the big overarching Amanda Seaford or Zendaya commercial, but we got to create like a tagline on the end that tied to the retailer. And one of our biggest challenges is like, so for example, it's a gift with purchase at Macy's and you, that's a very localized specific thing to add in your market. So like that's something going on in the United States, across all different Macy's around the country. You can get this gift with purchase if you buy the product, right? And typically, and you'll notice this now after hearing this, because now I notice this all

the time with like different brands, when they have these taglines, they're often very jarring after the commercial, like it'll just like completely switch visually to this like different asset. And it's like, come into Macy's and you'll get X, Y, and Z. And it like looks really weird and not cohesive with the, the, the visual before. So my boss and I had to actually create this really inspired by the hero asset visual that looked super cohesive and seamlessly like blended into the commercial. So you might see it like it's, it's running right now, which was really exciting for triple serum for long comes triple serum products,, but it seamlessly like blends in. So something like that is totally different than, let's say, a paid media asset that could be conversion driven versus consideration driven.

So there's a lot of different purposes for media and especially with targeting. So if you're somebody that has shopped a serum or has been searching, let's say you're searching vitamin C super, you know, heroic message of the whole product campaign, no, we're going to serve you an asset that is speaking to the serum itself, but calling out hyaluronic acid, niacinamide, vitamin C in the product, because we know you're looking for an ingredient driven, um, a reason to purchase the product versus an organic social post could be way less branded. You could have a swipe on skin and be super text, you know, texture focused. It could be sensorial, this like idea of like beauty ASMR of like bottle squeezing or like dropper onto skin because that person's already invested in the brand. They already like it enough to follow it. So you can get a little bit more trendy or less, you know, forcing the brand down your throat. It can be a little bit more fun

and a little bit more personal. And then something like a magazine is going to definitely be celebrity focused if your brand has that. So like for long comb, like our, like for our Genifique serum, that's one of our product lines, like Zendaya is the ambassador dress for that product line. So that's what you would see if you're flipping open a magazine, it would be Zendaya's like, you know, beautiful photo holding the product with like very clear benefits, very marketing driven, but you know, it's, it's getting the message across and a two page ad. So yeah, I think it's really important to know your audience and like what the platform is,

because the content is definitely going to look different. But the message you hope resonates the same in the sense of they remember the product, and they remember, you know, either the ingredient or the benefit, in my case for skin. Yes. I love that. And I like how you talked about the conversion focus versus the consideration. So that kind of goes back to people who just create content without any sort of intention or purpose behind it first, identifying that. And then you're able to kind of clarify that messaging is so important because it's less of a shot in the dark and you have that driving purpose to who you're targeting,

who you're talking to. So I love, love how you mentioned that for sure. Yeah. Marketing is just like all like you think of like an awareness asset is going to be so different than a consideration versus a conversion when your shopper is like ready to make the purchase and you've already kind of targeted them a few times and you know that they've likely seen the product multiple times. Yes. Yes, absolutely. And we could literally talk marketing with you all day, but I do want to hit a little bit more on the career stuff. Um, we all know, you know, all three of us have worked in social, we've worked in marketing content, all of that stuff. We all know, you know, all three of us have worked in social, we've worked in marketing content, all of that stuff. It can be hard to separate life with work and have that balance between the two. How over the years in your career, have you kind of honed in on that and

figured out a way to balance out the two? Yeah. So this like hits home for me because I definitely struggled with this. I think anyone that works in social media or has worked in social media can attest to the fact that it's very difficult to shut off, to turn it off because social never stops. And there's always something that you could be doing. And that was a really hard thing for me to deal with. When I ran Social Like Heels for those almost three years, you never felt like you did enough. And it wasn't anybody's fault. It wasn't my team's fault. It wasn't my fault or anything. It's just the fact that you could always be doing more. There's always one more person that's DMing you. There's always one other comment you could be responding to. There's a hashtag that

you could have wrote on it. There's somebody else you could have tagged. There's a hashtag that you could have wrote on it. There's a, you know, somebody else you could have tagged. There's a trend going on that you could have tapped into that day. And it just never, ever, ever stops. And it kind of was like, it hit a point for me where I really struggled with, you know, ever putting my phone or using social media personally in a way that I was enjoying anymore. I kind of like stopped loving it because I was just doing it so focused on work that you start to just never know how to like decide between the two. I mean, I was logged into Kiel's account for three years and it had, you know, 960K followers. And at like any point, like I could have messed something up and it would have fallen on, you know, me and my team. So that's stressful. And

it doesn't stop at 6pm because you're leaving the office, you're going to still get the comments all night long, because it's a, you know, it's 24 seven going to be going on. So I really struggled with having a separation of work and personal life. I would like work on the weekends, respond to things because it would, it would linger on Monday morning. I would feel like, oh, wow. Like if I don't do X, Y, and Z over the weekend, my Monday morning is going to be even more packed with more to do. So that was really hard. And also the fact that at a company or a brand, everyone is like, they're, you know, everyone runs their own social, right? So everyone has an opinion on social media, and everyone thinks that they're an expert, even if they are not technically like a business expert in social media, people

think they always know what's cool and what's trendy, and everyone has a suggestion, which I'm somebody that loves to collaborate, but it is hard when people, you know, ping you all day long with ideas and, you know, you kind of want to be someone that they, you know, they understand that that's your wheelhouse, but everyone loves social and it's an exciting career. And I think people think it's super like fun and not easy. I don't think anyone thinks it's easy, but it almost has this like reputation of being like the ideal job unless you're doing it. And then you realize, oh my God, there's a lot that goes into it that you didn't realize. So I struggled with it for a long time. And then I think you start to just compartmentalize things and you have to take into account of what is reasonable to accomplish in a day and accept that it all can't get done in a day. And it's not supposed

to because it can't, you physically can't, you'll burn out. And I had a VP, my VP at Kiehl's, Mel was like a really amazing advocate for me because I was very stressed out all the time. And she was just like, you have to just let it go. It will always be there. It's never going to stop. It's just like your endless scroll. At this point, you could never get to the bottom of your Instagram feed, which stresses me out in and of itself. Like, it's just always going to be there. So you have to just create boundaries for yourself. And I think I've done a lot better of a job in this role, which I started in July of like having a separation, you know, being mindful that your personal like life and your mental health is most important because that's how you're actually going to come to the table at work and be your most motivated self, your clearest headed, and just the best version of you. And you're not going to be that if you're super burnt out and stressed out and your teammates can feel that energy and you want to you want to evoke like you know positive energy and calm energy and yeah I 100% agree I remember in the first ever episode of marketing

happy hour we did some like rapid fire questions yeah and um one of them was like what's the best advice you've ever been given I don't know if it was business related or just in general and my answer was so interesting like kind of weird because it sounds like a procrastination tactic but I just along those same lines it can be done tomorrow that's not to say something that's very you you know, like timely and just very important can get done tomorrow. Like you don't put everything off tomorrow, but, but you do have to create those boundaries on what really needs to be done today and what can be pushed off a little bit to give yourself that. I totally agree. And it's like, at the end of the day, like this was like a phrase

that goes around a lot here at L'Oreal, but like, it's PR, not ER, like, you're not changing, you're not, you know, working on a human body, you're not like saving someone's life, like what you do is, of course, important. And it has a purpose. And you should feel fulfilled doing it. But like, at the end of the day, like, no one is going to die because you didn't respond to a comment or a DM. I mean, I think the whole other side of it and like during COVID and all of the, you know, crazies, you know, social issues that were going on the last few years, like that's the other thing working in social is and for a brand, you have to always make statements and you have to make them politically correct and you need to vet them through and everything needs to be super, super buttoned up. And that's a stress too, because at the end of the day, like I was a 26

year old and having to post about really crazy, you know, pandemic issues, everything that was going on in the world. And that's a lot of responsibility. So you just have to, you have to give yourself grace and understand that it's okay. And like, exactly. Like it can be done tomorrow and things it's not the end of the world. Yeah, absolutely. And I totally relate. I had to do the same thing. Wild times to work in social media. That's crazy. But honestly, I feel like I grew so much. So I'm grateful. Yes. I feel the exact same. Well, I'd love to hear from you. What do you think is next for you in your career? I love that question because it's like,

it could be any and everything. I am very open right now to things. Not that I want to do a major career shift, but I love content production. I love creative directing and producing content. I am not tied only to the beauty industry. So I would be open in the future to doing, you know, different industries or having my own like creative agency.

I would love to have something that is my own one day, not brand related, but more like if I was consulting for other brands or having a creative agency of my own and working with all different clients, like I love that idea. I'm really interested in the metaverse, to be honest, and like where I could potentially work in content production in that sense. So it's something that I am interested in exploring or understanding the way advertising is going to shift within like a technological shift in the coming years. So right now in my career, I want to be upskilled in those ways because I feel very confident right now in content production and I'm really enjoying that. But I

think I want to evolve in, you know, understanding, you know, the ways technology is going to develop, but also, you know, the ways that we can make advertising even more emotional or, you know, the ways technology is going to develop, but also, you know, the ways that we can make advertising even more emotional or, you know, felt by the consumer in a deeper or better way. So they understand before they make a purchase of what, you know, what they're going to get out of it or an experience, what they'll experience. So, you know, that's kind of like a big answer and a small answer because it's not super specific, but I'm open to a lot of different things. I do want to be a leader and I want to like have something of my own one day. I've always, always known that I want something that is not because I want it to be mine, but because I just have this innate feeling ever since I was a child that I would have

like something of my own in that sense and feel really inspired by creating something from start to finish. Love that. Love that. And great advice in there just to kind of like maybe focus on where you're at, but like you said, upscale, try to do the best that you can in your current state. Cause I feel like as humans, we're always trying to think about what's next and rush towards that and speed up the process where right now where we're at, we can learn so much and do so much, make a big impact. So that even just that little bit you shared was huge. So yeah. And I'm a big believer in that. One of my favorite books that I've ever read is called the power of now. And it talks about that,

how you don't have a past because your past is like a complete illusion of what you believe based on your emotional experience with it. And it's all like a retelling of a story that, you know, isn't actually your reality. So your past isn't exactly what you think it is. And your future doesn't exactly exist because you don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. All you have is the present day and the people that you're with in that very moment. And when you kind of start to live life thinking that like everything and anything is right here right now, you take everything like deeper into heart and like you feel more proud of what you're doing in that exact moment because you really cannot control what is happening tomorrow. You can learn and you can be driven and, you know, focused on what you're doing, but, and have like, you know, an intention for the future, but,

you know, you have to work in the present because that's all that you have. Yes. Yes. And especially with everything happening now in the world, we just have to remember life is precious. And so, you know, thinking about that, taking one day at a time, appreciating everything you have, the people you have is one day at a time, appreciating everything you have, the people you have is so important. So that's really great. I'll have to read that book. That sounds awesome.

We're closing up, which is so sad because this interview has been amazing. And this is a question that we love asking all of our speakers that we have on the show. Is there anything that you know now that you wish you knew early on in your career? And what's kind of a piece or a lesson that you can share with everyone through that? Yes. So there's a lot. And I think one of the biggest pieces of advice or lessons I learned is there is no harm in asking because for anything, it could be a promotion, it could be a salary increase, it could be an experience that you want to have with your team or, you know, that your boss allows you to have. If you're afraid to ask, your situation remains the same because you're not going to have it. You're not going to get the increase. You're not going to have the promotion. You're not going to have the experience. So you're in the same state

as you would be forever, right? If you ask, you have the possibility to get what you want met. Right. And if you don't, you know, the worst case scenario is the reality you're already living in when you ask. So if you ask for, let's say, to be promoted and they're like, hey, no, it's not going to happen right now, but let's talk about it. And, you know, four months. OK, great. At least you now have the knowledge that it can be a conversation to have in four months. Or they give you the promotion because you made a great case for yourself. And now you got what you wanted. There's never a harm in asking if you do it in a respectful way and like, you know, a smart way, because you believe you deserve that. So I think that's a huge lesson that I learned is that most people are willing to listen for, you know, to what your proposition is. And also like,

the thing that I would say is be your biggest advocate. No one is thinking about you as much as you're thinking about you. So if you want an opportunity, if you want something new, you want to raise, you want this or that your boss, your team, your, you know, anything like, of course they want the best for you, but you are not their priority every single day. They're not thinking about your financials. They're not thinking about your career path. They're not thinking about your career path. You have to advocate for yourself and be your biggest fan and know the reasons why you deserve X, Y, and Z. That is amazing, amazing advice.

Thank you so much for sharing that. Ash, it's been amazing. You really have touched on so many value add things for our audience. I'm very excited for them to hear this interview. But we have close. So where can everybody find you, follow you, keep up with you? Are you on LinkedIn?

Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you guys so much for having me. This was really, really fun. And I think what you guys are doing is incredible. So you guys should be really proud of yourselves too. Where you can find me, I'm like at Ashley Head everywhere, like Instagram, yeah, LinkedIn.

I spell my name really weird. It's spelled A-S-H-L-I-E. So I guess that's one thing to know. It's a very strange spelling of Ashley, but yeah, Ashley Head everywhere and anywhere. Awesome. We'll have it in the show notes and all over social media when we promote

this too. So thank you so much for joining us again. This was amazing. Thank you. What an amazing interview. Don't mind me, but over the next several weeks, you can find me diving into all things metaverse before this thing really takes off. Huge thanks to Ashley for joining us on this episode of Marketing Happy Hour. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to rate and leave a review. As always, follow along with us on Instagram at Marketing Happy Hour. That's at Marketing Happy HR. Catch you next time.