Marketing Happy Hour - Job Seeking Tips Straight from HR...Candidates, Take Notes! | Stephanie Pagan of ILIA Beauty

Episode Date: March 30, 2023

This week, Erica and Cassie chat with Stephanie Pagan, Talent Acquisition Lead at ILIA Beauty. In this episode, you'll learn strategies for landing a new job that’s a perfect fit, hear Stephanie's thoughts on internal mobility within your current company, and walk away knowing how to push through the noise and stand out as you grow and evolve in your career. Here's a peek at what we cover in this episode: [00:05:39] - Stephanie explains how her experience in retail at Starbucks helped her understand the talent and people landscape, how several roles in marketing at Perfect Snacks transitioned into working as HR Generalist and implementing people strategies, and how her current position at ILIA Beauty allows her to shepherd the overall brand experience for candidates and employees being onboarded. [00:16:15] - Stephanie shares her top tips for job seekers, like adjusting title conventions to be reflective of the work you performed and responsibilities you held and including tailored, relevant experience to the job you're applying for within the body of your resume to reinforce why you're a good fit for the specific role. [00:25:16] - For someone who can't seem to land interviews in a seemingly oversaturated candidate market, Stephanie shares a unique strategy to find opportunities beyond traditional job boards. [00:29:24] - Hear Stephanie's thoughts on cover letters - a necessity or a "nice to have?" [00:31:29] - Stephanie talks through internal mobility, and how understanding how the work you do connects to the business needs and how they evolve over time will equip you to have tough conversations about where you want to go in your role within your current company. [00:37:04] - Stephanie shares her experience developing important DE&I (Diversity, Equity & Inclusion) strategies that echo across all aspects of a business. Grab a drink and listen in to this week's Marketing Happy Hour conversation! ----- Other episodes you'll enjoy if you enjoyed Stephanie's episode: Landing a Full Time Marketing Job Right Out of College | Alison Taplin of FabFitFun Empathy in the Workplace + Humanizing Your Brand | Ally Golden of UpWork Career Resentment? Let's Get Into It | Capri DeBiccari of ButcherBox ____ Say hi! DM us on Instagram and share your favorite moments from this episode - we can't wait to hear from you! NEW: Download the Dream Career Game Plan! NEW: Check out our website! NEW: Join our email list! Connect with Stephanie on LinkedIn Follow MHH on Social: Instagram | LinkedIn | Twitter | TikTok Subscribe to our LinkedIn newsletter, Marketing Happy Hour Weekly: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/marketing-happy-hour-weekly-6950530577867427840/

you're listening to the marketing happy hour podcast where we discuss career and industry insights with our peers in marketing we're here to talk about it all like the ups and downs of working in social media how to build authentic relationships in the influencer and pr space managing a nine-to-five and a side hustle at the same time, how to be productive in your life and career without losing your sanity, and more. Ultimately, we're here to build a community with you because we're all trying to navigate the world of marketing together. Are you ready? Grab your favorite drink and join your hosts, Cassie and Erica, for this week's episode. Hey, Marketing Happy Hour listeners.

This week, we're getting nitty gritty with HR and uncovering all of the job-seeking tips that you need to know for job hunting in today's market. We recently launched a bonus 10-minute episode series called open for hire, where we're chatting with marketing professionals on the job hunt. So hearing from someone on the other side and talent and people at a brand we love was something that we wanted to be sure we dedicated a full length episode to. I'm so excited for you to meet Stephanie Pagan, talent acquisition lead at Ilya, and learn strategies for landing a new job that's a perfect fit, her thoughts on internal mobility within your current company,

and how to push through the noise and stand out as you grow and evolve in your career. Without further ado, grab your favorite drink and listen in with us. Stephanie, we're so, so excited to have you on on today we were just talking off record that the topic of HR talent recruitment building career is very new from your perspective in the position that you're in so we're so so honored to have you welcome to the show and thanks for being here today of course I'm so excited to be on with you both and timely definitely is the word. I'm actually at an HR conference this week in Las Vegas.

And I think certainly the last two years, if one more person says unprecedented, I know that's like a triggering word, but it really has shaken things up. And certainly people and talent are one of those industries that really has evolved a lot since the pandemic. And so I'm loving to see that brands are really prioritizing it. And I know that it's top of mind for talent as well. Absolutely. Yeah. We cannot wait to learn from you, but before we get into it, we have to ask,

what is in your glass this afternoon or what is your favorite beverage that you've been sipping on recently? Yeah. Well, since I'm at the conference right now, I'm drinking a Topo Chico, but I will say that when I'm indulging, you know, on a Friday evening, I'm a big fan of June shine. I absolutely love what they're doing from like a branding perspective. And I actually, I don't have this on my LinkedIn, but I did work with them for a short time. And so I have a lot of love for that team and the drinks are amazing. We had Annie from June shine on our podcast. Um, I don't know her exact title, but she works within the marketing department and she was awesome and shared so much about their sustainability structure and things like that,

which was really cool to hear. So, so fun. I personally have only ever tried one flavor of June shine and I need to try more. I don't think I chose the right one, but I know that it's good because everybody tells me it's amazing. So I love their, um, their POG, um, kombucha, but they also just came out with a spirits line and it's just like incredible, like super great. Oh, yum. Yeah. I need to try more of their drinks as well, but I agree everything they're doing sustainability wise and just brand mission. Everything is

incredible. Um, I personally have a water and an Aperol spritz tonight. I haven't had a fun drink in a while, so I'm very pleased with myself for today's recording. Uh, but Erica, what about you? What do you have? No, that's awesome. We all know you love your Aperol spritzes. I was seeing, like, I was hoping on your birthday that you would be posting one. I was like, she's going to do it. She's going to do it. I don't know if you did. I actually have a new to me drink. It's called something and nothing is the brand and it's a Yuzu seltzer. It's actually amazing. I've seen this in a local surf shop here. Um, that's also a coffee shop, which is like the coolest thing ever. Um, but they sent over some of their goodies, Cassie, I have to share

it with you too. Um, I think there's two more flavors coming in the mail too. So I'm really excited to try all of them, but so far this Yuzu seltzer is really, really good. So shout out to them. It's something and nothing. Love that name too. Yuzu is one of those flavors that every time I see it, I'm like, Ooh, I want to try that. Yes. I know. Oh my gosh. There is a coffee shop that's opening in Lakeland, Florida, which is where Cassie and I both live now. And it's kind of, it's one that's, I think it might be based in Vegas or in LA. It's called Happy Fast Delicious. And they just posted on their Instagram stories about putting Yuzu in their coffee drinks. And I was like, whoa, Yuzu is everywhere now. I love that.

Okay. Well enough about Yuzu. Let's just start off. Let's jump right into your background. You have experience in communications, organizational management, and marketing, all of the things. So could you just walk us through some of your past positions and how you found the role that you're currently in today? Yeah. So back when I was in school, I went to a local university in Southern California, Mount St. Mary's. I got a fantastic scholarship with them, but it wasn't enough to cover like room and board and extra expenses. So I worked through my, my four years in college. And so, you know, in that stage of your career, you just have like this blank resume and you're like,

please give me a shot, some experience. And so like most folks, I started in the retail kind of space and working for, you know, I think what was interesting when looking back and kind of reflecting on it, I felt like I always prioritize brands or companies that had products that I was really excited about and being able to transfer that excitement to the customer experience. And so even though it was just like a retail job, I was always looking for brands that personally, you know, I was really excited to see. And so I worked for brands like Lush and did a little bit of work in the boutique fitness space with like Flyable Sports. And then landed at Starbucks, which I find is pretty often the case for college grads or people who are

working through college. It's a solid job. And I really give them a lot of credit because the way their ecosystem works at the retail level, they do give a lot of autonomy to individual doors to kind of create custom marketing and kind of people strategy so that they're really responsive to the customers that are in their geographic region. And so even though I kind of started at the brewery still level, I was a lead supervisor, I ended up kind of on this team in the region that I was in to open new stores. And so you help to kind of inform that strategy and understanding talent and people deployments, both at kind of this very like, unitarian kind of deployment style of how to have the right people in the right places inside of a store, but also thinking a little bit more big picture about a district and how you will move talent from a high volume store to maybe a lower volume store to kind

of develop the talent that's coming in through that door. And so really had a lot of opportunity to think critically about how to develop a talent strategy in that role. But, you know, it's still figuring out what I liked and what work was exciting to me. And I ended up getting this kind of unique opportunity to step into CPG as a brand ambassador for a brand called Perfect Snacks. They're most known for the perfect bar, the kind of original refrigerated protein bar before it was like a really big thing. And what an incredible experience. It was my first experience working with founders

and understanding that journey from having this idea, this vision that they had for this brand that kind of spurred through, you know, their family story and things that they were going through and then building a business. And they were such incredible people, so genuine. And really, I think some of the magic behind the success of the brand was they were so thoughtful of, you know, understanding, you know, what they were really good at and driving the business and building those relationships. And then knowing, like, as the business grew, like, we're going to need someone who's, you know, operationally really strong. We're going to need someone who understands finances at this scale and really bringing in the right people at the right time. And then developing their careers with the brand as it grew, which I think is a really difficult thing to do because it takes coaching. It takes being okay with your team, making some mistakes along the way, but kind of coaching them through that and understanding that the business and the founders were kind of going

through this experience together. And so I worked as a brand ambassador that ended up kind of evolving into a field marketing role. And it's like very experiential. You're working with consumers kind of at events or even at Costco roadshows, demoing grocery stores. So it was a very hands-on experience, but because the brand was growing and because the founders were so thoughtful about kind of keeping talent, you know, growing and developing with the brand, they gave us a lot of opportunities

to have some, you know, say in how our regions and our districts were going to grow, bringing in new retailers. And so I learned so much through that experience. And I thought that field marketing was going to be my career. I was like, I'm going to do this forever. I love it. I was traveling so often, which now I'm like, oh, I'm not sure if I could probably sustain that now, but I loved it. You're young and you get to go to all of these incredible places. And then the pandemic hit and then it was like, hey, what are we going to do with field marketing? And it really was how Perfect Snacks had built their consumer brand. And so they did a great job of kind of pivoting us into different parts of the business as it made sense. And so I spent some time in consumer affairs, doing like customer inquiries through email.

We used Vendus as our platform. And it was very similar to the work I was doing in field marketing, but just kind of in this digital platform and understanding how we could use the data that we were collecting in those inquiries to kind of share that feedback with departments across the business. Because our consumers are kind of that first line. They're seeing and touching our product. They know the pain points at a certain retailer or coupons that are not working or quality issues that maybe we haven't already heard of.

And then feeding back that consumer feedback to those departments and saying, hey, this is what our customers are telling us. How can we respond to what they're experiencing? And I thought that was a pretty progressive approach at the time. I think CX has come a long way and kind of developing as a formal function and brands really understand how important

it is now. But spend some time doing that. And another role in the marketing team kind of came up to be a social media manager. And I did it for such a short time, but I think it's so important to note because I honestly felt like I was terrible at it. Like I certainly had like consumer awareness, commercial awareness, but I think there is a special talent to understanding content and what's going to perform in what channel. And it was a backfill opportunity. Someone had left to what's fantastic in the role. And so there were big shoes to fill. And I wanted to challenge myself, give it a try. Let's see if I can translate my skills into this role.

And it just didn't feel like the right fit. I felt like I didn't have that kind of intuition like I did in other roles, working with consumers, working with talent, that I did working as a social media manager. And I think it was the toughest conversation to have with my manager at the time and our head of people and saying, Hey, like, I feel like I'm failing at this, which I don't think is the only indicator. I think sometimes failing a little bit is a good sign. Like you're challenging yourself, you're pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. But I just felt like it wasn't a good fit. And so with their support, we were kind of

deciding what would be next for me. And again, like having a business that kind of supported some of those challenging conversations was really critical. And it so happened that an opportunity on the people team was opening up. So I formally kind of moved into the people team. I helped to develop kind of our first DE&I strategy. It was one of the first projects that I worked with in combination with our PR team and understanding, you know, a lot of the conversations that were happening on social or externally facing and how to start those conversations internally and really understanding how our team felt and how to be responsive to their needs. And then that kind of evolved into an HR generalist role.

And I learned a lot very fast. A lot of credit to my mentor. Her name's Allie. She was the head of people then. And currently she's a VP of people at another brand. And she really did such a great job of giving me all of the resources I need to develop kind of the compliance and more kind of like HR side of the role, but also helping me to develop the gut and intuition to understand like changes in the business, how to get talent into the right seat, recruitment. And I learned a lot so fast. And then in kind of just keeping an eye out, seeing what was, you know, in happening in the people and talent space, the role at Ilya kind of came across my LinkedIn feed.

And it was such a moment of hesitation because Perfects Next had invested so much in my growth and my development. I love the brand, love the founders, love the people I was working with. But I think I really wanted to see if all that I learned would translate into another industry, into with a new team, with new challenges. And it felt like the opportunity and the conditions were right. So I applied and I got a call back the next day, which is like a sign from the universe, let's do it. And I fell in love with the brand. Again, founder story, Sasha's vision for the brand as it grew over time, and her investing in talent, kind of these critical milestones for the brand, all of it time and her investing in talent, kind of these critical

milestones for the brand, all of it felt very reminiscent in me. And I was wondering, okay, can I duplicate my experience at Perfect Snacks, but now kind of be in a position where I could shepherd that experience for our team and the people that were onboarding. Oh my gosh, that's so amazing. Thank you for sharing all that. I think it really paints a clear picture of why you're at where you're at today. I mean, even starting at Starbucks, having that customer connection, one-on-one all the way through that talent connection, it really sounds like people has been kind of the main root of what you do. And so you having that pivot into the world of HR

really makes sense. And I even just see that passion coming out through this recording here. So I can't imagine you interviewing for that position that, you know, the founders and whoever was interviewing you that really came out as well. So thank you for sharing all of that. Thank you. I definitely think it is people. It's my favorite part of any day is conversations that you get to have with folks and just understanding like, Hey, what do you need? How can I help? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm sure too, your diverse experience has really added to you just looking for talent, understanding what a marketing department may want in a role and just those different segments of a business.

So I'm sure that's helped a lot, which is really a topic I want to ask you about here in a second. We want to chat through some job hunting tips, applying for jobs, interview process, etiquette, things like that. So we have a lot of listeners who are kind of in that phase of figuring out what's next. Maybe they're applying currently or thinking of applying. So just as we start out this conversation here, would love to know any tips that you have for standing out as a job applicant and some things that you recommend that people focus on during that process. Yeah. I want to note for candidates that the market has changed a lot, even in the last six months, it went from like candidates really having a lot of favor and employers just being

like, please take this job. So now, you know, there's a lot of things that have changed across industries that are making it more competitive. So I want to say to anyone who's applying for jobs right now, there, there are so many people looking and searching right now that being eliminated from a job pool, it's not just about qualification, not just about experience and not just about, you know, your willingness to learn and evolve in the role. There are like a lot of elements at play that I think make conditions right now really difficult. That being said, I like hate to say something that's so back to the basics, but I think a super simple CV template is so important. I know that there's a lot of options now to add color and photos. And

if you're in a design focused role, certainly I think that might have impacts, but for most other departments, I think a very clear and easy to read CV template is so important, especially if the business that you're applying to uses an ATS system. But I do want to kind of eliminate the myth that ATSs are kind of this evil bot that will just like push out your resume because of x y and z we do use an ATS at Ilya but I promise you that we review every single resume that comes through even when it's hundreds for a single role that we've opened but you know because of the volume that we're dealing with we're only spending I would say initially anywhere from one to two minutes to review a candidate's profile before we have to

make a decision about moving forward and so in addition to the simple resume I would say that resume arc which is kind of that story of how your experience kind of ties into each other I think this is more of a controversial take, but I think business titles are pretty arbitrary, like what your business calls your title versus what another business calls that title. It, you know, everyone kind of decides based on what works best for their business, like what title convention makes sense. I am so pro you adjusting titles to be reflective of the work that you did.

You know, if, if changing some of that title convention to better display like your focus or your responsibilities, so that story is really clear to the recruiter or the talent team that's reviewing that resume, like I'm all for that. I think as long as you're able to speak to it and that you can kind of clearly explain like why that title was your title, I think it can make it easier to kind of share that story arc through your resume. So it's clear why you're a good fit for the role. And then I would say, lastly, I think time in role is kind of important. And I think that's a hot topic right now about tenure, because I think a lot has changed in the last couple of years. I think the expectation of having someone who's

been in a single role or a company for four or five years has kind of changed a bit. But I do think time and role is relevant as it relates to like onboarding. So for example, I would say to successfully onboard someone in a role where they're comfortable, they understand their relationships in the business, they understand their responsibilities, and they're confident in their execution takes about three months. So if someone's been enrolled for maybe six to nine months, then my assumption is really, you only have the opportunity to like really get into the nuts and bolts of your position for maybe six or, you know, nine of those months, depending on, I was like, I don't think that math checks out or like for a shorter amount of time. So that's something that we consider is that,

you know, being able to speak to what you were able to execute in that time, I think is so important. And so if you do have a shorter tenure, kind of being prepared to speak to why that tenure was a little bit shorter, I think is important. And I think that's something that recruiters and hiring managers in particular will often ask about. Amazing. I love resume tips always. I'm curious too, you kind of spoke to this a little bit, but I know there was this old myth and even for me growing up and applying for jobs, I just had one resume that I sent to every company for every position. And I've learned recently that that was not the best strategy. So can you talk to just really quick customizing resumes, any tips for pulling out keywords or aspects from the job description that can help craft a customized resume for specific positions?

Yeah, I would say, I would say dig into maybe the sub function of the role. Marketing is a great example of that, because I think sometimes the approach from marketers and I was like, hopefully this doesn't come across as rude, but I think marketers think like they can do any marketing job. And I don't think that's necessarily the case. I think there are nuances to social versus retail versus influencer relations, PR. And so I think something that recruiters look for is kind of key shaped experience. So of course, I think having a diversity of exposure is really important, but having some depth in what you really are good at and what you really have access is important. So if you're looking at a job description that says, I don't know, marketing manager, which I'm not a big fan of that title because it is pretty general. That might be the case if it's a small business and a marketing function is still small. So you may need to be an ace of all trades. But if it's for a larger business with a more established team, there should be keywords in the job description that lets you know, OK, you're primarily going to be working with our retail partners or you're primarily going to be working with our retail partners, or you're primarily going to be working with influencer and PR, and then making sure that you're kind of customizing your bullet

points or your title convention to kind of call out how your expertise is in alignment with what they're looking for. Oh, that's so good. And it's so funny. We've had a lot of conversations recently with friends in the marketing space who are actively looking for new positions, and they can't seem to, you know, land any interviews they're going on LinkedIn and all of these open jobs have, you know, that little indicator that says over 200 applicants. And then really when it's, you know, thousands and thousands of applicants, it's hard to know how to stand out. And so I think that's a really good tip.

But what else is like, what's another tip for somebody in that position who may, you know, have a hand in all of these different areas, write a CV, I think the same thing for job posts, I think they're challenging things to write. And sometimes you're like, you want to give them enough that they understand the role, but not too much that's overwhelming. And maybe you don't read all the way through it. But I think you can kind of read in between the lines. Sometimes I'm looking at a job post to understand one, if you're qualified, and I don't think that the qualification section is necessarily the right indicator. So if they're asking for like 10 years of experience and you don't have 10 years of experience, I don't think that eliminates you. But I think digging into like, who are they looking for? And am I that person? And having like that honest conversation with yourself. I think sometimes I read job posts and it's clear, oh, wow, they have a lot of work and they're looking for someone who can handle a lot of work. Or I'm reading the job posts and it's like, oh, wow, they have a lot of work and they're looking for someone who can handle a lot of work.

Or I'm reading the job posts and it's like, they're looking for someone who's really good at liaising with vendors. They need someone who will own vendor management and understanding those kind of nuances of the qualifications that are being listed. I would say also understanding the industry that you're applying for or the category that you're applying for, depending category that you're applying for, depending on the size and scale of the business. Like for us at Ilya, for example, oftentimes we're looking for candidates who have experience with our retail partners or in our channels. And so being able to clearly make that connection of you've had this experience before will make it

more likely that your resume gets pulled forward. Certainly, I think anyone can make the case of like, here's how I can translate this experience from my industry to this industry. And people do do it every day. But I think, depending on what the priorities are of the role, the business may not have time to help you make that transition. And I know that's like a tough thing to hear. It just sometimes that is the case. And I'm always honest with candidates when they're meeting with us on understanding, you know, do we have the opportunity to coach and develop in role versus other roles? Maybe we just really need someone who has the experience to execute right away. Oh, that totally makes sense. Is there another place that people can look beyond the traditional LinkedIn, Indeed, you know, job boards that we're accustomed to,

to find positions that may be more suitable to their, you know, experiences and may not have as many applicants, you know, a huge applicant pool is really hard to stand out in. And do you know of any places where they can look? Yeah, I'd say that I think the tough thing with this question is like candidates are already asked to do so much to make themselves like, you know, a great candidate for employers. I hate to add to that list, but I think something that's really been helpful for me and that I share with people who I have informational calls with is community building. And so joining professional networks. One that I had a fantastic experience with when I was at Perfect Snacks was the Naturally Network. They're

in the natural food and beverage space, and they created a fantastic network in the San Diego area, creating events or educational opportunities. And it gives a lot of chances for people to have informational conversations with teams. And oftentimes, I think that networking can lead to jobs a little bit more successfully than maybe like LinkedIn networking, which I'm a big fan of. But having that in-person connection, I think, can be really helpful, especially if you're early on in your career. You kind of have a feel for where you want to go, but maybe you're kind of open still. I think naturally or any other professional organization, I think for the beauty space following channels like Glossy or Vogue, seeing if they have networking opportunities are super important as well so that you can kind of rub elbows with people in the industry and

kind of say like, you know, what's top of mind for you. So I can keep that in mind for myself as I develop my career. Yeah, that's so good. And even conferences too, like you said, you're at an HR conference. There's so many marketing and just social media and all sorts of conferences out there that you can go to and meet people across your industry that may, you know, keep you in mind in the future for a role that opens up. So I totally love that. Do you recommend reaching out to hiring managers via LinkedIn or other ways to introduce yourself as a candidate or not? I'm so curious to hear.

Yeah, I actually had this conversation with a candidate recently and every business does it so differently. And so it can really be hard to give like general advice about that. For us at Ilya, we have a pretty streamlined pipeline process for our candidates. So all candidates do have to meet with me for an initial pre-screen. And then the hiring manager is that next conversation.

So sometimes if they've already established a LinkedIn connection with a hiring manager, that can be helpful because then they're aware like, oh, yeah, that person reached out, their resume looks like it's aligned, you know, can you please screen them for me? And I think sometimes that's helpful, but for other brands, it really depends on what their pipeline process is. So at the risk of putting my fellow people peers with a crazy inbox, I think it's super helpful to reach out to the people or talent acquisition teams first. If only to ask the question, like, how does your candidate experience like work or

what the interview plan typically looks like for a given role. So you have an understanding of when the hiring manager answers the conversation, if it makes sense to start with them, or if you want to start with the TA team to understand what that process looks like. And then if they answer your question, maybe like a 10, 15 minute informational call. I get requests like that all the time. And I try to say yes, almost always. And then what I do if I like my schedule is super booked and I don't have time in the moment, I will let them know in two weeks, my schedule will open up. Can you please follow up with me in two weeks? And I'll make time for that call. And so far that worked really well for our team

because we have a really large passive talent community now that we've stayed connected with, that we followed up with. And so later down the road, when roles become available, I think we already have that connection both sides, which I think is great for the candidate experience and also good for the business.

Oh, such good tips. Yeah. I know certain companies definitely have a tighter hold on that whole experience. I know I've reached out to companies in the past and they're like, you know, unfortunately I can't do much for you, but would love to chat anyways. And so even just gaining that experience and insight from them is good. But, um, I think a lot of times we think that those people we reach out to can give us an in and it really depends, like you said. So thank you for that. I want to go back quickly, really fast to kind of the resume discussion. I love asking this question to people in your space, but what are your thoughts on cover letters? Yeah, I think, I think it's too early to roll them out. And I

think it's a case by case basis. If you think the cover letter adds context, that's important to the evaluation of your experience. For some people, like it's so clear in their resume that they're a good fit for this role, like a cover letter is just really not necessary. I'd rather save them the work. But for example, we're seeing a lot of people now make industry pivots or they're pivoting from different departments. I've seen a lot of teachers enter the job market, a great example. They're highly educated, have a wealth of experience, and now they're just looking for an opportunity to try something different. I think cover letters there are so important because it helps to share that story and kind of understanding why they're looking to make that change and how that experience may translate.

It doesn't necessarily guarantee that it will be a good fit for the role, but makes it really easy for me as a recruiter to make that evaluation. And then oftentimes, if I have the bandwidth, I love reaching out to them to let them know that, you know, I appreciate them adding in that context. Here's why maybe their CV wasn't moved forward for a particular role, but that their CV will be a part of our talent community. And I would love to consider them in the future for other roles. Oh, awesome. Thank you for that. And then I want to chat to you just a little bit about internal mobility. So I'm curious to hear about your experience with just hiring within, and I know there's a lot of different opinions around where companies are looking to first and that whole process. But one of the things that we recently highlighted in our resource that we just launched, the

dream career game plan was the importance of just influencing where you're at. Even if you're thinking of moving on to a new company, doing a great job in your role and not burning a bridge, essentially, even if you're just trying to get out of position so bad, just being referable down the road is so important. So I'm curious to hear your secrets and tips for internal mobility. If someone is looking to move up within the current company, anything that they can do to help ensure that or push that forward? Yeah, this is actually my big kind of emphasis this year. You know, Ilya went through a ton of hiring last year that I helped to support, which was really

exciting for the brand. But our focus for 23 really is internal mobility and creating those opportunities for our team. And so the kind of first step that we've kind of worked on, and I know that a lot of other businesses are working on is sharing leveling and compensation philosophy and making those things transparent to the team. And I would say from the people kind of talent perspective, the reason why those are kind of rolled out a little bit slowly is I think the frameworks are important for understanding how you can move up in a business. But I don't I think sometimes the knowing the framework can be a little bit limiting and it can be a little bit scary from the the hires perspective because you're like, OK, I'm a number four and I'm trying to become a number five. And I think it just makes it a little bit more analytics focused and it kind of takes the the

people first part out and so I think what we're doing this year is kind of very slowly kind of rolling out those frameworks as a structure that our team will use to help guide those conversations but not wanting it to be limited because what's everyone's unique experience is going to look like as they navigate their own career what's important them, and then how maybe that crosses over with the needs of a business will be different. I think so one for everyone, you know, listening, I would say, figure out like what the leveling and compensation philosophy is, that might start with your direct manager, maybe meeting with people and kind of understanding what framework they already have built out and

what they can share with you. And I would say the second thing is really understanding kind of how the work that you do is aligned with business objectives. I think the toughest part about internal mobility is there's only like so many promotions, only so many positions available in a given business. So understanding, okay, how does the work I do now connect to a business need? And then how will this evolve over time? You know, are we onboarding new retail partners? Are we opening new channels, new distribution for the business and how your work will connect to that growth?

Because you might be in a manager level role and you're trying to become a senior manager, but does the business need a senior manager? And building that case so that you can kind of explain to your people manager why that next step makes sense for both you and for the business. And I would say the last thing is having a sponsor. And so I would say in most cases, your sponsor, hopefully is your direct manager who can kind of be the person in the room saying like, wow, like Cassie's been doing such an incredible job. Here's what she's worked on in the last quarter that really has impacted the business. And here's the plan I would like to put in play

to get her to that next level in the next six months. If you are worried that maybe your direct manager isn't that sponsor for you, one, have tough conversations. I know it's so hard to be transparent and to say, here's what I want and can you help me get there? But I think it's

an exercise we all have to go through. And I certainly was a person who like avoided those conversations at all costs, because my dad always taught me you just work hard, and then people will reward you for your hard work. But sometimes visibility is just like raising your hand and saying, I want to be rewarded for my hard work and being comfortable and sharing that with your direct manager. But if you know, you're in a situation where maybe your direct manager doesn't have the bandwidth or they're not displaying an interest in that development, which does happen. I think everyone has maybe had that experience before where there's a disconnect. Finding another sponsor in the business. It could be a peer who maybe has a more senior title, another manager or leader in the

business. Getting some of their perspectives. I think that can be helpful too, because maybe you're getting feedback from your direct manager and maybe you don't agree. And so you go to another senior leader and then maybe they give you the same feedback and you're like, okay, well, here's something I can work with. I'm getting consistent feedback that this is an area of opportunity for me. Or maybe they have different feedback and they're like, I think you would be great for that. Maybe not here. And here's maybe something you should consider. I think having that sponsor is so important to kind of give you a little bit of clarity, some perspective. And I find that senior leaders are so open to those conversations, especially if they've spent years in your industry, there's this kind of like

white hair wisdom that senior leaders love to share. And they're like, in your industry, there's this kind of like white hair wisdom that senior leaders love to share. And they're like, in my time, and they kind of share their experience. And I think it's really great to have those conversations. And I think it can be really impressive if maybe you're a more junior level role, and you kind of raised your hand and are having those conversations with people. I think it goes a long way for planting the seed of like how you want to grow within the business. Yeah, so good. And I know a lot of times we get worried about, you know, poking our leaders or sponsors for their time. But I think just making a consistent effort to get that time on the calendar, even if it's once a month or once every other month, just to chat with them, talk about those elements that you were discussing, I think is so important and can lead to a lot of awesome opportunities. So only prioritizing that from an internal standpoint with hiring and talent,

but infusing that also into that external messaging, just with your viewpoint from the marketing side, having experience there all the way through to talent. Why do you think that's so important to just have that infused in every piece of the brand and what you're building with your brand? Yeah, I think some of my learnings and, and being a part of that strategy building at perfect snacks was one understanding, like what each function needed in respect to DE and I, I think we kind of assumed like marketers would just know how to market in an inclusive way. And our finance team would just know how

to conduct business in an inclusive way. But I think oftentimes our team members like wanted to have those challenging conversations or wanted to maybe inquire about things they didn't know how to. So I think a lot of the things that we thought through during that time was, you know, providing resources to our team to have those conversations and to help them connect to whether it be agencies or tools that help them to kind of develop those processes. For marketing in particular, it was kind of like, okay, I've noticed that maybe our vendors are not inclusive. How can we add a new process to support onboarding, you know, a range of vendors from a different, you know, different

populations, different groups, processes like that, that from the people in HR side, like we don't necessarily have direct line of sight to so having them share that feedback with us, and then finding the resources they need to execute, you know, strategy that was inclusive and equitable and diverse was really important. And then when it comes to consumer facing comms, I think it's just really important to understand like your brand and your product and like where you sit in this space. I think what was interesting at Perfect Snacks is, you know, we're a protein bar company. And of course, it was so important for us to advocate for our consumers and the communities that we were coming from. But I think it was really important that we didn't kind of overstep and step into conversations,

you know, educating others on diversity and equity and inclusion when that really wasn't our place to do it, you know, and wanting to make sure that we were supporting our consumers and letting them know that we hear them, but also at the same time, acknowledging that there are probably other leaders, other voices that are more important to be heard during those times, and just creating space for those voices to really kind of take the spotlight, I think was especially important during 2020. I think that's something we were really conscious of during that time. So I think, you know, at Ilya, inclusivity, I think is so important for us, you know, for our team, and then also our marketing, I think a lot of the way that people know us is the diversity of our models and skin tones and skin textures. Like we're a skin focused

brand. And so I think it's naturally a part of who we are and our ethos. And so I think in some ways we do that really well. And I think internally what we've been working on is a two-pronged strategy, funneling down and then funneling up, which is giving employees resources and autonomy to develop what DE&I looks like for us and incorporating that in our community. And then from coming down from our senior leadership, giving them resources, training, educational opportunities, so they can make informed decisions as managers, as leaders with their teams, and having all of the resources to support those decisions. And I think so far that's working really well for us, but I think it's an ongoing

process. And I think the most important thing is that we keep it a priority, even though I think things will continue to shift and change in the industry. Yeah, so good and so important and really appreciate your insight on that. I feel like we could talk to you literally all day. I know we had like some other questions here written down, but you're basically the people person of our dreams. So thank you for coming on to this show. We do love to ask this question as we're wrapping up and that is what do you wish you knew at the beginning of your career that you know now? I think I was so focused early on my career and having like the right degree with the right certifications. And like, we're the generation of like the Forbes 30 under 30 and like having all of the right accolades that, you know, would prove

that I was successful and that I did it. Those things are great, but I don't think that they're the things of my career like I remember most. There are these conversations or these wins that I've had, like when I fill a role or I get an email from a candidate who's like, this is the most communication I've ever received from a recruiter in my life. And like feeling so victorious in those moments and having made those connections, I find that that's truly the work that energizes me. And so I know that when you're early in your career, it's really hard to, to, to find that authentic thing that really drives you and not be, you know, so focused on the noise.

So I would say to anyone who is in that similar position that the titles, the awards, they're certainly nice, but I think when you go to bed at night, they're not the things that you're like, ah, I'm excited to do that tomorrow. Um, and so to find the work that, you know, energizes you, that makes you excited. Um, there will be challenging days for sure. And so you got to hold on to those victories and those wins to kind of write out those challenging times and really stay close to the things that you're most passionate about. Oh, so good. Yeah. Purpose and value alignment is so important, especially in career. Cause this thing we do eight, nine, 10 hours out of our day. So yeah. Thank you for that tip so much. And this

has been such a wonderful pleasure having you on today and just want to thank you for taking time out of your conference to speak with us. But before we close out Stephanie, just want to thank you for taking time out of your conference to speak with us. But before we close out, Stephanie, just want to ask you where everyone can stay in touch with you and even everything going on over at Ilya as well. Yeah, you can follow me on LinkedIn or send a connection request. I love chatting with people on LinkedIn. I think when you search me, you have to search me, Stephanie, and then the letter P with a period because I don't have my last name listed. Because I was like, I'm afraid of stalkers.

I can't do any Netflix series. But find me on LinkedIn. Send a connection request. If you're in the LA area, would love to meet up for a cup of coffee. Especially if you're in the people and talent space. I love leaning on my peers and understanding what they're doing in their business. But if you're a candidate and you're job searching and you just want to have an informational call, also open to that. Send me a message on LinkedIn and we'll make some time to connect. Amazing. Thank you for that.

And just opening up that invitation, but appreciate you coming on again, Stephanie. It's been such a wonderful pleasure and we're excited for everyone to hear all the amazing tips that you shared today. Amazing. Thank you both. I had such a great time. That's it for this week's episode. As always, thank you so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode with Stephanie, please remember to subscribe, rate, and leave a review on your favorite platform. For more Marketing Happy Hour fun, check out our website at marketinghappyhr.com and follow us on Instagram at marketinghappyhr. Have a great week. We are so excited to share that our first ever free marketing happy hour digital resource is now available.

Download the dream career game plan today at marketinghappyhr.com forward slash freebie. That's marketinghappyhr.com forward slash freebie. This five-step workbook will guide you through defining your goals, building your network, diversifying your skills, influencing where you're at, and investing in your growth. Cassie and I created this resource with marketing careers in mind, but the framework can be applied to any industry. Our hope is that this workbook will help you truly elevate your career, whether you're in the market for a new position or just looking to make your mark in your current organization. No matter where this resource finds you, we are cheering you on every step of the way.

So go check it out at marketinghappyhr.com forward slash freebie to download and make your career dreams come true.