Marketing Happy Hour - Mastering Your Brand Communications and PR Strategy | Kamara Turner of Walgreens

Starting point is 00:00:00 you're listening to the marketing happy hour podcast where we discuss career and industry insights with our peers in marketing we're here to talk about it all like the ups and downs of working in social media how to build authentic relationships in the influencer and pr space managing a nine-to-five and a side hustle at the same time, how to be productive in your life and career without losing your sanity, and more. Ultimately, we're here to build a community with you because we're all trying to navigate the world of marketing together. Are you ready? Grab your favorite drink and join your hosts, Cassie and Erica, for this week's episode.

Starting point is 00:00:51 Hey, Marketing Happy Hour listeners. Today, we have such a treat for you in chatting with Kamara Turner, Communications Manager at Walgreens. In this episode, Cassie and Kamara walk through her experience in public relations and communications and how her background in consumer packaged goods and retail informs her content and communication strategy for the brand today. Kamara also shares her PR strategy around the recent Walgreens premium skincare launch, the trends she's currently seeing in retail that marketers should be paying attention to, and her predictions for the future of public relations as we look ahead to 2025. You know what to do. Grab your favorite drink and listen in. Hi, Kamara. Welcome to Marketing Happy Hour. How your favorite drink and listen in. you to be able to pass those along to our community here. So thanks for doing that. Absolutely. But first, before we dive in, I have to ask you, what have you been sipping on lately?

Starting point is 00:01:52 Or what do you have right now in your glass? So right now I'm drinking a LaCroix, which it's 10am I'm drinking a LaCroix, but whenever I'm like craving like a Coke zero, I just need something bubbly or fizzy. I just always go for the LaCroix. So that's what I have right now. Love that. Love that. I love sparkling water so much.

Starting point is 00:02:11 I do too. Yes, it's so good. I personally just have water right now, but I have, so it's so funny. We were just talking offline. We just faced a hurricane, so I had to clear out my whole fridge. But one thing I do, yeah but one thing I do yeah one thing I do have in my fridge is Hawaiian sun so I it's so good I came across it on my last trip to Hawaii a few years ago and it's this like delicious juice in a can it's so good so I'm gonna go grab

Starting point is 00:02:41 one of those here in a little bit yeah Sounds good. Is it like a fruit juice? Yeah. Yeah. They have a bunch of different kinds. There's passion fruit. There's guava, like very tropical flavors. So it's really delicious. So, yeah. Sounds good.

Starting point is 00:02:58 Yeah. It's a little chilly outside, but I need that chili for my standards at least. Maybe not your standards. I know. I'm like, what's chili, Cassie? Yes, I know. It was like 55 degrees this morning, which for us is a little chilly. So I need a little bit of a tropical vibe to get me back in the warm state of mind. Yes. Well, again, so excited to have you here. I'm just curious overall, you have such awesome experience and a great background. So what led you to become the communications manager

Starting point is 00:03:33 at Walgreens? So I graduated from Illinois State University and I was one of those people that always loved writing. I love talking to people. I remember like on my report cards, I always got the feedback that I was a social butterfly. I was just, you know, always talking to people. So naturally, when I went to school, I went into journalism. And I feel like journalism is one of those fields that like a lot of people know about. So I did that for about a year. And then I had a really great academic advisor who actually recommended public relations to me because she realized that I loved like the strategic part and working with people and like collaborating so I switched to PR after like my first year and I loved it I loved you know being able to work with my classmates and being able to like strategize and learning about media relations as well. So once I graduated, I had about three, two or three internships. And then I finally got like my first

Starting point is 00:04:32 big girl job as an assistant account executive at a smaller agency where I was working with technology, travel clients, some consumer brands, very small, like much smaller brands. But I think that was really helpful for me because I really got to learn what PR was. And like, very small, like much smaller brands. But I think that was really helpful for me because I really got to learn what PR was and like, you know, doing PR for smaller brands that aren't household names. So that was great. And then I went to a bigger agency where I was working on, you know, the CPG big players like, you know, the Kraft Heinz company, the Coca-Cola company. And then I was there for about two years. And now I'm at Walgreens where I started as a senior specialist. And now

Starting point is 00:05:10 I recently got promoted to a communications manager. So it's been great, you know, really just like seeing everything come to life and really using everything that I've learned over the past few years to kind of shape me into the comms person that I am now and learning along the way. Yeah, no, that's so great. I have a lot of friends in communications and some sort of communications role. And we have a lot of listeners who are kind of earlier on in their career trying to figure out, you know, which path to take. How would you describe your communications manager role? Or what are some of the tasks on a day-to-day that you're doing specifically? Yeah, I would say in terms of like, it's like really corporate and brand communication. So I'm doing a lot with executives, you know, getting them prepped for speaking engagements,

Starting point is 00:05:57 media interviews, but then I'm also more on the brand side where I'm on the retail communications team, specifically at Walgreens, where I'm supporting almost anything that you can find in store. So new product advancements, new products that we have coming out to shelves, events that we have in store. I'm really to help support those from a PR and comms perspective, whether that's through media relations, influencer work, also executive comms, working closely with our social team, our own content team just to pull them in. So it's really both brand and corporate communications, which is great. It really spans across so many different kinds of comms, which is nice, but definitely all over the place for sure. Yeah, no, that's really cool. It sounds like a very holistic role, which I'm sure is

Starting point is 00:06:45 really fun. Just doing different things on a regular basis versus a very stagnant every day is the same role. So that's, that's never the same. You never know what you're gonna get. No, it is not. That is for sure. Yeah, I started my career in PR. So I very much believe that as well. It's it's completely different all the time. And marketing in general, really, too, is just, it's all over the place 24-7. Yeah, well, I love, too, that you had some agency experience as well. So how do you feel that both the agency experience and the in-house roles that you've had have really helped contribute to the way that you approach communications and PR today? I always say that agency work really taught me the fundamentals of PR. You know, it taught me

Starting point is 00:07:30 how to be really creative. I really learned early the importance of following the news, seeing what's going on, what people are talking about, both from a consumer perspective and a media perspective, being able to come up with ideas to bring to the table, you know, for clients. So I would say that it really taught me what PR is and how to make it and make things into a story that can relate to your client. And also being creative with it. You know, I feel like an agency, there's no such thing as just like a dumb idea. You know, you come up with an idea and you're able to, you know, twist it, turn it any way you can to make it work for the client that you are supporting. So that's always nice. And then my in-house

Starting point is 00:08:10 experience now, I would say is teaching me to be much more strategic and how to create content that always moves the needle for the business. So instead of, you know, I'm still tapped into culture and what's going on, but I always have the business goals at the forefront. So, you know, thinking about, well, what is the company's goal right now and how can this trend in culture or how can, you know, we get help that company reach the goals that they need to reach or their objectives. So I would say those are like the two main differences. But having those kind of mesh and come together has been really helpful for me. I've also learned how traditional PR has different, differed from modern PR too. So I think traditional PR is definitely more, you know, securing coverage and just relying on search engines to kind of find that coverage and reach the right audience, while modern PR is definitely more amplifying that coverage. So you're working internally with teams, which I do a lot now at Walgreens. Like

Starting point is 00:09:08 we have a plan, but then we're also thinking, how can we bring in other teams? How can we bring in our organic social team to amplify the coverage on our Instagram or our LinkedIn? Or, you know, how can we bring in paid social? How can we bring in our internal comms team, field communications team? So it's just really amplifying it to get it into the, you know, get it to more people to see the work that we're doing to help within the company and even in your past roles too. How do you feel it is best to approach internal relationships and just build trust among teams? The reason I'm asking this is I have a lot of friends within companies that there isn't a ton of open communication across teams. And a lot of times launches are all over the place and PR beats aren't really aligned internally. So how do you just recommend approaching relationships internally to improve communication across an organization? I would say be excited about what other people are doing. That can be something as simple as

Starting point is 00:10:18 putting 15, 30 minutes on their calendar, learning what they're working on and being interested in it and seeing how can you support from your expertise. So if you're meeting with someone on the marketing team, see what's coming down their pipeline and see how you can support from a PR and comms perspective. If you're talking to someone, someone more senior, like an executive, learning what their pain points are and seeing how you can help them from a personal brand perspective or from a business perspective. So really just putting yourself out there, offering up your expertise and just like being excited about what they do. Because I think sometimes we kind of get into our bubbles at, you know, companies and we just kind of stay there. But when people know your name, they know what you do.

Starting point is 00:10:58 They're more inclined to come to you and they're more excited about coming to you. They know that you're excited about the work that they're doing and they're excited to see what you can bring to the table as well. So just having that open communication, I think, has been great for me and I think works well for a lot of people as well. Yeah, absolutely. I could not agree more. I think even to just thinking about personal relationships, having that investment of time and energy

Starting point is 00:11:21 and to thinking about what someone has going on in their lives and really being interested in that, I think that builds the trust just across the board. So I'm curious too with content, storytelling is a big topic that we talk a lot about on the show. How do you decide which storytelling elements to include in kind of a content strategy or just overall messaging? And how do you feel storytelling is important in the way that you develop content? Comms is becoming just way more integrated at companies I've noticed. So it's no longer just like earned media, but it's also internal comms, it's brand marketing, social media. So I say when it comes to storytelling, you really want to focus on first who your target audience is.

Starting point is 00:12:08 So if it's media, okay, you can do a press release. You can do a media event. You can do a mat release, embargoed pitching. And then I like to call out that when utilizing press releases, it's important to just be straight to the point as possible and to be as factual as possible. Always thinking, what does the journalist need to know to write a great story? I love to pull in data in press releases. I think they work great. And then if your audience is, say, like a consumer, social media works great. Blogs are good on content. Blogs are great. And I think it's good because it's a great way to be more relatable. You can show features of a new product that you have. You can utilize influencers on social to showcase like everyday use of a product.

Starting point is 00:12:51 I think that's always nice. And then, you know, even internal comms is a great is like growing really fast right now. So thinking about, you know, the story that you're telling, does it relate to our field team members, the team members that are on the floor doing the actual work and getting the products into the hands of consumers or shoppers in the store? What do they need to know? How can we make them feel included so they can trust the business more, but then also become more brand ambassadors to speak highly about the product or the company once they see a shopper in store and they can build that relationship with them that way. That's how I like to go about storytelling and seeing who the target audience is first and who do you need to bring in to make sure it reaches the right

Starting point is 00:13:35 people. Yeah, for sure. And you mentioned press releases, which was getting me thinking. We've talked to a number of different people in PR and some people say press releases are dead you only need to do moon stacking some people say no they're very much alive kind of similar to like a cover letter when you're applying for jobs so what's your opinion on that with press releases and are they still relevant today as they were several years ago I think that they're still. I don't think they're as relevant as they were before. And I think that's because there's so many other channels that can be used that can work more effectively. So I think before press releases were used as like a one and done, like that was your strategy. It was just press release was it. But now I think that's more of a tactic that you can do in a holistic comms plan. Right. And I think if you do it strategically, which, like I said, making sure that it's very straight to the point, very factual.

Starting point is 00:14:32 There was actually an ad week article that came out like a couple weeks ago, I believe, that was talking about how press releases are becoming way more high, like filled with more hyperboles. And like, you know, using the word thrilled and excited. And it's like, that's great. But, you know, does this help the journalist? Because the people that are reading press releases is media, it's journalists. So is that language really helping them write a good story? Probably not, because they're probably not going to use that in their story. So facts are the most important thing in press releases and just getting straight to the point. What does the journalist need to know that they can in turn give to the consumer? And how can you shape that to be as easy to understand as possible and to answer their questions as much as possible that they might have. So I don't think they're dead, but I think that we are now a much smaller part of a bigger plan than like before,

Starting point is 00:15:32 where I think that was like the whole thing with PR previously. For sure. Yeah, it was definitely very cut and dry several years ago. And now there's a there's a lot more to it. Relationships are obviously important. Having those key relationships with media and knowing exactly what kind of stories they're looking for, I'm sure has been important for you in the past too. But kind of with that too, if just thinking about a recent PR campaign that you've led just overall, what are some challenges that you encountered and what are some key factors behind the success as well to that? So most recently, I led our premium skincare launch and this campaign was really focused on like Walgreens private label skincare items.

Starting point is 00:16:18 And these were like really comparable to the national brand items. So think like youth to the people's super food cleansers, super goops, unseen sunscreen, glow recipes, AHA items. So think like Youth to the People, Superfood Cleansers, Super Goops, Unseen Sunscreen, Glow Recipes, AHA Mask. So items that are like really popular that, you know, have a big following. We had compared to items that were very similar, but at a much lower price point. So aside from doing a typical PR strategy, like a press release and media outreach, we worked really closely with paid and organic influencers. And I think that this helped us a lot. So we worked with our agency just to create mock-ups of the mailers.

Starting point is 00:16:54 And it included like five products that we were going out with just so they can actually try them and put their hands on it and see what it looks like. And I think this was a great way to utilize a multi-channel strategy because we got to kind of surround sound the community that we were targeting, which is people who are into beauty products, you know, people that are into beauty, they follow beauty influencers. So we want to target those influencers that have that audience. And also when it comes to influencers like a lot of people when they get their hands on it they can see it they can feel it they can smell it it really drives that purchasing behavior because they they're more inclined to trust the product that they have in their hands so I read

Starting point is 00:17:37 like something that said like almost 90 percent of consumers trust word of mouth more than anything else and people consider influencers, podcasters, you know, like they're trusted friends. So if you can have those people showcasing your product and saying positive things about it, I think it actually creates more of that positive outlook on the product to get it into people's hands. So I think that using the influencer approach was a great strategy for us and it worked really well. And I think one of the biggest challenges is just, you know, it's always, you know, just working at a company where, you know, it's just such a big company. You have to be very strategic about what words you use and just making sure that you're staying, you know, on top of legal things that could happen.

Starting point is 00:18:19 So just making sure that, you know, everything is accurate and is true was like one of the biggest challenges. But luckily, we were able to make it work in the best way possible. So that was always that was nice. Yeah, for sure. I think that's so important going back to just having that physical touch on product, I think is so huge, especially when collaborating with an influencer. Let's say you want to go into some sort of paid collaboration with them, allowing them to try the products

Starting point is 00:18:49 first and foremost to make sure that they like it and enjoy it before activating them further. If that's something you're looking to do, I think it's so important because it increases that trust factor. If someone's actually used it, maybe seeing results from that product. So that's another thing that's not dead. The gifting, the surprise and delight, people love it. It works really well. Absolutely. Especially having fun boxes or mailers that they get to open. It's, it's a blast for sure. So I, you know, PR, as we've kind of already talked about, we talked a little bit about press releases and things like that. The PR space is evolving so quickly, especially with these digital platforms and the way that we're using that now in our PR strategies. And so I'm just curious overall, how do you see PR just adapting in the future?

Starting point is 00:19:41 And where do you feel the biggest opportunities are for PR professionals? One thing I've noticed is that the ratio of like PR people and journalists is low, which can make it really hard to accomplish our goals when we're supporting a client or supporting the business. So I really see PR adopting new channels. You know, what about like podcasts that are geared towards the consumer and, you know, sharing supplier success stories that talk about how products came to life from conception to being on store shelves. I think this can allow like the brand to feature more authentic conversations that are not just the product push, but are talking about how the consumer was in mind the whole time when putting this product, bringing this product to life. So that's one way I see,

Starting point is 00:20:31 I see, you know, like PR evolving. And then another way is, of course, social media is a thing, but I see PR kind of tapping into newer channels like Reddit, which I know a lot of companies despise Reddit, you know, there's like this anti Reddit rhetoric, which I understand. And then also YouTube, I think YouTube is like one of those untapped channels that a lot of people kind of forget about, but I think they're both great for social listening because you can turn the raw data that you get from those, you know, the social analytics tools that you use to see what people are saying about your business or your brand, turn them into, you know, valuable insights that you can use to improve your relationships with your shoppers or your consumer and with journalists. So, and you'll also get like the inside scoop on what, you know, the public is saying about

Starting point is 00:21:14 your brand and like what, you know, what the engagement is like, what the latest trends are. So I think, you know, it's, it's not, it's no longer just about the media relationships, but also, you know, thinking of new ways to bring in new people to become brand ambassadors, like a team member or internal, internal team member. And then also using more social media to which, like I said, I know Reddit is one day there'll be like a Reddit influencer, like Reddit influencers. I don't know. But I definitely see people tapping into that more. And I think it's an untapped market for sure. Yeah, no, I completely agree.

Starting point is 00:21:54 And thank you for mentioning podcasting just as a strategy, too. I think it's it's it's still it's not a new platform, but I feel like to marketers and to brands, it's still newish. People are still kind of confused as to the impact and what it does and everything. But I think it is one of the most intimate platforms out there. I mean, people are spending the time to listen to your voice or you speak on a brand for 15 plus minutes. And so there's a lot of trust to be built there, I think, between a brand and consumer, but Reddit 1000%. I think it is so helpful for social listening and just learning about what are some of the questions that consumers are asking about your brand. Because

Starting point is 00:22:36 that's what a lot of people do on there is they go on and ask questions to other consumers who have used the product. But to be able to leverage that as a brand and say, Oh, this is a common question that's coming up all the time. Let's talk about this on social or on our website or whatever. And it's like Reddit is a big community. Like there's literal communities on Reddit. So if you use those communities to like talk about your brand, you can really get some good insights on what people truly think, you know, outside of just, you know, product reviews on your website, you know, you can actually see what people truly think, which can be, you know, it can be a good and a bad thing, but it can be helpful in the end if you use it in the right way. Yeah, absolutely. I could not agree more. So just overall to thinking about your specific skill set,

Starting point is 00:23:22 do you what skills do you believe are most important for communications professionals to cultivate, especially in such a fast paced work environment? Be flexible outside of just earned media. So, you know, a lot of companies now, there are teams within the comms team, you know, so tap into the crisis and issues communications team, executive communications, team member or employee comms, influencer relations, social media, learn what they do and see how, you know, see what interests you the most and how you can become, you know, better at what they do too. So you can help more often.

Starting point is 00:24:01 I think just being flexible and kind of being able to be agile and showing like have a more diverse skill set is really helpful in PR because it is, like I said, becoming more integrated. So you never know what skills you'll need to have. And then I would say also get good at cross-functional collaboration. Kind of goes back to what I just said,

Starting point is 00:24:22 like, you know, learning what other people are doing because that will help you connect the dots across the business for full picture of what's going on. And to put together a strategy that ladders up to the company's goals. So once you see what other people are working on, and you know, you can connect the dots and see like, okay, like, I see how this is helping move the needle for the company. I think that can be a really great asset to have. And then finally, I'll say one thing that I think PR people are not good at is learning to brag about ourselves and the work that we do. So posting on LinkedIn, you know, showing what you've worked on or, you know, I don't know, any way that you can show the work that you've done. I think it's always great. I think it's something that us as PR people, we get so caught into, you know, helping other people or trying to, you know, just get the job done. We forget to celebrate our wins. So doing that so people can trust your work, they trust your expertise and your perspective. I think that's

Starting point is 00:25:19 something that we can all learn to do to do better. And it's really important. Yeah, I literally was about to ask you about LinkedIn. So thank you for mentioning it. I think it's such a powerful platform. It's one of my personal favorites. And again, I love your content. I love what you share out there. And I think too, as a PR professional, there's so many media personnel on the platform now. So it's a great way to put yourself out there and connect with media too, I think. But I'm curious from your standpoint, how did you gain the courage if you needed to gain any sort of courage to start sharing? Because I feel like we talk to a lot of people that are like, oh, I'm not sure if I have anything to share or if I have the experience to pass along,

Starting point is 00:26:02 or I don't feel like I have enough accolades or authority or whatever in my space. So what would you say to that kind of hesitation? As simple as it sounds, you literally just have to find the courage to just like, do it, it gets easier as you do it. But I think trusting myself, trusting my experience and knowing that I've contributed to so many, you know, big campaigns that are out there. What did I to so many, you know, big campaigns that are out there. What did I learn from those, you know, and showcasing and sharing that? Because even though a lot of people work on campaigns at a company or, you know, at a business, we each have a different experience as we're working on it and we each see things differently.

Starting point is 00:26:42 So talking about what you saw, what you experienced, what challenges were, what, you know, the success was, it's going to look different for everyone, regardless of the outcome of the, of the project. Right. So I think talking about that and knowing that your perspective is unique was one thing that I had to, I had to remember for myself, like, yes, there are so many PR and comms professionals out there who have maybe more years of experience, who have worked on bigger brands. But my experience is unique. And there's someone out there who finds your work fascinating and they find your work interesting and they want to hear about what you've done, how you got past things. So just trusting yourself, trusting that your experience is unique to you and that

Starting point is 00:27:25 someone out there wants to hear about it. Cause I think that was my biggest hangup was like, I was like, well, you know, I only have this many years of experience who really cares about what I have to say, but you know, people do care, you know, because you're, you're a unique person, you have unique experiences and you never know when, you know, what you share can help someone else navigate, you know, a challenging moment that they're going through. So I would say just learning to trust myself and just doing it. And just being consistent with it really helped me a lot and just to become more comfortable and learning what works and what I do want to share what I don't want to share. That's been that's been really great for me. Yeah, for sure. And I think you're exactly right with consistency. I think when you

Starting point is 00:28:11 first start, at least for us with podcasting, like it almost feels a little bit icky. You're like, Oh, like, I don't know. I am not used to this or my hearing my voice. You're like, this is so embarrassing. And then you like you know what I'm just gonna keep doing it yeah because it's like who actually cares and that's the thing like people aren't reading your content they're not watching a video that you put together and like judging every second of it like we are our own biggest critics but it's it's exactly right like the more that you do it the more you'll get comfortable with it and just go for it. And I think too, you know, with the whole years of experience thing, I heard this quote the other day, which I'm probably going to completely butcher, but essentially was to the kindergartner, the third grader is king. years ahead or a few months ahead, like you have a different, unique approach to something. You have a little bit more of an expertise than that other person does. Even if it doesn't, even if it's not 10 plus, 20 plus years, you have something to share. So that was encouraging.

Starting point is 00:29:17 You know, like people who do have more years of experience, I find that they're actually interested in people who are just starting out in the field. Like they're interested to see, you know, what we're seeing, what we're learning and to see how we're putting together plans and strategy because it helps them too. So it's a two-way street, you know, it's not just learning from people who have more experience than you. The people who have 15, 20 years of experience, they're learning from, you know, people who are just coming into the field because they have a different perspective on things. So me remembering that has been has been helpful to, you know, by asking, this is kind of a juicy question. So take a minute to think about it if you need to. But I'm just curious, overall, thinking back in your career, what do you know now that you wish you knew earlier on in your career, just kind of

Starting point is 00:30:15 in general? I would say I wish I knew just how flexible you'd have to be in PR. I think that when people think of PR, they think of only like media relations, but now it's so much more. And I don't think I knew that when I first came in. So I think it was a little bit of like a culture shock when I first, you know, started to get my that's the first thing. And then also just like knowing, having to explain to people what PR and comms is, because I feel get your talking points down of what you do so you can share it with people accurately because what you do is important. And a lot of people don't know what PR is or what comms is. So, you know, write down a little talking point that you're going to give to people every time. Because I wish I would have told people exactly what I do rather than just defaulting to marketing like yes it's it's a part of marketing sometimes but it's different so um I would I would say that yeah no that's good having like your personal elevator pitch I know my uh my family still doesn't understand what I do my dad my dad specifically he's like oh, you just manage social media accounts. I'm like, yeah, but my grandparents think that like the stuff like the advertising advertisements on television. That's what I just let them believe

Starting point is 00:31:56 it. I'm like, Yeah, that's what I do. Yeah, exactly. It's okay. And not everyone's gonna understand it. But I think if you can somehow to your point, kind of clarify it down a little bit and, and make it as simple and straightforward as possible. I, you know, that's the best you can do. So yeah. Well, Kamara, this has been awesome. How do we stay in touch with you personally? Where can we find your LinkedIn? We'll have everything linked below, but just give us a little bit of a shout out where we can follow you and Walgreens online. Yeah. So LinkedIn is the best place. Kamara Turner on LinkedIn.

Starting point is 00:32:31 I also have a newsletter that I post every Monday. So it's just like it's called Pulse and Perspectives, where I talk about things that are happening in brand marketing and how it relates to strategy. So I'm also picking that up and kicking that off. So you can find me there and I'll be posting on there every Monday and then throughout the week on LinkedIn as well. So you can find me there and I'll be posting on there every Monday. And then throughout the week on LinkedIn as well. So you can find me there. Yes, definitely follow her. It's awesome content. So I'm so glad I came across your, your profile there. And thank you so much for doing this and passing along all of your insights and just congrats on everything that you've achieved so far in your career. It's been awesome to follow. Yeah, absolutely. This is great. For sure. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Marketing Happy Hour podcast.

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Marketing Happy Hour - Mastering Your Brand Communications and PR Strategy | Kamara Turner of Walgreens

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