Marketing Happy Hour - PR + Influencer Marketing: Back to the Basics with Amplifyed | Tiana James (prev. Victoria's Secret PINK) + Avery Bash (prev. Smoothie King)

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi, Avery and Tiana. How are you? Hi, we're doing well. We're good. Awesome. We're so excited to chat with you today. But before we get started, we do have to ask you a question that we ask all of our guests, and that is, what is in your glass this afternoon? It is marketing happy hour after all. Mine's not too fun, but I have a have a lacroix a nice little sparkling water and i'm drinking actually a little arnold palmer situation spreads um but normally i would say if it's a happy hour i'm drinking a skinny margarita with i wanted to ask y'all are in florida do y'all put tahini on drinks? Is that a thing? The big Texas thing is like a ranch water with tahini. Yes. Yeah. Ranch water isn't as popular here as it is in Texas, but people do,

Starting point is 00:00:55 uh, they're like spicy margs with tahini around the rim. So good. So good. Oh my gosh. Delicious. Well, we're so excited to learn from you to hear what you've been up to. Uh, but if you don't mind share with us a little bit about your backstory, your professional journeys thus far, and just kind of tell us like why you built amplified in a little bit about that. Yeah, absolutely'll start um tiana um i actually started let's see in my career i started at jc penny um and i was actually on the retail side of the business so i started in buying and it really kind of grounded me um in marketing insights of truly what the path to purchase is for a consumer, right? So I got to

Starting point is 00:01:46 actually be the one that selected the items that went in our stores across the country and then see how consumers were purchasing and what that data was showing me. And while I was in that role, I realized that I was craving something a little bit more creative. And so I wanted to kind of pivot my career and move into marketing. And ultimately, when I left JCPenney, I was the manager of PR and partnerships there. But I'm so thankful of having that retail background, because I think it's really kind of grounded everything I've done from there to really just focus on ROI and how all of our worlds are connected when we're talking about data and when we're talking about, you know, driving revenue for a company. And then quickly after JCPenney, I was headhunted

Starting point is 00:02:33 and landed a job at Cure Dr. Pepper where I met Avery. You know, both of our roles there were new roles to the company. They found value in PR and so they created our roles. We came in, we did a lot of building from the ground up, building processes and building relationships and new connections for the company and leading really amazing efforts for some of the most kind of like, I would say household brands. And then ultimately, that kind of led

Starting point is 00:03:08 me to where I am today, where I became the director of PR and partnerships for Victoria's Secret Pink. So doing a lot of what we share in our Amplify course. But yeah, I also, you know, I have a new adventure that I'm starting in my career. I can't share where I'm going just yet. But very soon I'll make that announcement. But yeah, I don't know, Avery? Yeah. So my career path is very different than Tiana's at the beginning. I went to school in Austin. I went to UT and then basically did an internship. I was an English major with minor in communications. Wasn't sure exactly where I was going to land, but interned a bunch of different places. Interned actually at Starcom MediaVest between my junior and senior year.

Starting point is 00:03:53 Absolutely fell in love with advertising. But when they were hiring, they only hired media planners like straight out of school. And I was like, I do not want to be placing the media. I want to be coming up with the creative ideas. And so I had a great mentor actually there was like a section of the business called Liquid Thread at the time and it was like branded entertainment and it was very ahead of its time and the president Brent Poer and I went and met with him and he said I think you should consider startups he was like I think it's such a like, that was a time that was summer of 2013.

Starting point is 00:04:29 So like Elizabeth Holmes was on the cover of like magazines at that time. Like the whole startup thing was like really exciting. And I was in Austin. And so, um, long story short, I interned with a company and helped like run some events for them during my spring break, South by Southwest senior year. And then got recruited by another travel startup out of DC, founded by some guys from Marriott, moved to DC to work for that startup. That startup ended up failing within nine months. They ran out of money. And I was like, oh my gosh, I need to find a job. They're like, we're not going to be able to pay you. I remember they called me on New Year's Eve and they said,

Starting point is 00:04:59 we're not going to be able to pay you anymore. We'd love for you to stay. And I was like, oh my gosh, I have to make money, rent's expensive. And it was very much like serendipity because our PR consultant at the time was looking to make her first hire. So she hired me. I worked out of her home. Her name's Sarah Morgan with 1111 PR. She's now like built into this whole business. And so I worked with her and that really sparked my love for PR. And then I went into more of a traditional agency. It was small at the time, grew with them, more B2B, and then moved back to Texas, got the job at Keurig, Dr. Pepper, where Tiana and I met. And then most recently, I was at Smoothie King running PR partnerships and social media.

Starting point is 00:05:41 So I had a very kind of like rocky start to my career, but I think all those experiences somehow kind of led me on the path to figuring out what I was really passionate about. Yeah, for sure. Well, and with so many awesome opportunities that you both have had too, I'm curious, are there any standout projects or things, campaigns or launches that you two individually have been able or together really have been able to work on so far in your careers? Oh my gosh. I feel like we've had so many, um, so many wins, you know, one of the things that I'm most fond of from my days at Keurig Dr. Pepper was, um, I actually brokered Dr. Pepper's very first NIL deal. This was like right after legislation passed. And so for a brand

Starting point is 00:06:27 that's so well known being, you know, an advertiser in college sports, I think that for me was such a, an amazing first ever moment. That was so exciting. I think, you know, another, you know, thing that I've done that, and of course, you know, I say thing that I've done, but all of, all of the things that we work on i feel like is in partnership with so many other people um to make them happen but another one that i'm super proud of um was my time at um victoria's secret pink where um we brought on tiktok star remy vader to be a size consultant for us um and that was by far one of my most favorite partnerships. I'd say the big one for me that stands out, and I had to think about this because it's hard to

Starting point is 00:07:11 narrow it down, is probably working with Martha Stewart on, so I ended up working on the coffee brands in Keurig for the last year and a half at Dr. Pepper. And she partnered with Green Mountain Coffee to promote our pumpkin spice coffee and pumpkin spice. I mean, I feel like it's so overblown and we were like, what can we do? That's going to be different. And our flavors were all natural. And so they were like, let's go all natural. We worked really closely with our PR agency at the time on this and bring someone in to like go all natural. And so it was Martha. And it just blew up, it became so iconic. And it was really fun because then later that year, or maybe the following year, I guess the next season she was in Sports Illustrated. It was kind of her next

Starting point is 00:07:54 wave of like her thirst traps and just all the fun that she's been having. And she's just an icon. So that was amazing. Gosh, that is so fun fun and I remember that I was like this is so clever I love this campaign and then also bringing in Remy so brilliant to uh she's just like a star on her own but then bringing her into the the conversation around sizing and and just getting a lot of like consulting from her I bet was so impactful for the brand at VS2. I feel like that, that's just like a brilliant partnership. So kudos to you guys, because I didn't know any of that, that you worked on those things. And now I'm just like fangirling over here, but yeah, of course. Well, let's get into a little more of the conversation around what you're

Starting point is 00:08:41 building now. You over the years have kind of seen the impact of those strong PR and partnership strategies, like you mentioned. How can brands today maximize their marketing efforts by working in PR and partnerships? I think that's a great question. You know, when we started in PR, it was very different. You know, influencer partnerships weren't necessarily a thing. We partnered with what at the time was called bloggers and we were like paying them to post on, you know, their own websites. I think also press was so different. Like we were still doing what's called desk sides and we were doing a lot of traditional pitching. So to see how the environment's kind of evolved over the past few years, and even recently how it's continuing to evolve, I feel like the world

Starting point is 00:09:33 of social media, paid media, and PR are really starting to blur the lines and becoming really almost congruent. You can't have one without the other. They almost lean on each other. And so I think for brands right now, it's important to see the value in all of them. And I really feel like PR is kind of the crux of it because the way that I've always talked about PR and Avery feels the same way is public relations

Starting point is 00:10:04 is telling a brand story through the voices of others, right? So you want it to be authentic. You want it to come from someone else's voice, but you want it to still hit everything that you're trying to communicate as a brand. And so, you know, while you can own certain things that come from your brand, you can't own someone else's, you know, recommendation about it. You can't own the way that they speak or the way that they interact with your brand. And so I feel like with all of these worlds colliding, you have to be really good storytellers and you have to have really good relationships with consumers to be able to make sure that that

Starting point is 00:10:42 brand is still coming to light in the way that you want it to. I think, you know, in my mind, you need PR in order to continue to tell your brand story. Yeah. I think it's so crazy that still even today, a lot of brands are like, well, should we invest in that partnership or should we invest in PR? It doesn't, you know, where's the ROI? How do we measure it? And I think like, so especially like at Smoothie King, like it's a, you know, QSR industry, lots of, you know, you'll see billboards and out at home and like point of purchase, POP marketing, that's all so important, obviously,

Starting point is 00:11:17 but that's just like the table stakes. And then anything that you do with partnerships or PR, like beyond that is how you actually authentically connect with your customers and what makes them really love the brand. Like, obviously the product needs to be awesome too. Like that's, you have to have that for people to really love it, but that's where you take it up a notch and like really create that connection with the guest. And so I just, yeah, I think it's, it's crazy that there are still those conversations are like, should we invest in this or that?

Starting point is 00:11:46 And I get it because it is harder to say, okay, we're going to partner with this celebrity or like, you know, we're going to do this big brand partnership. Are we going to see the value of that? And I feel like, I mean, at least in my experience, every time that we've taken a leap of faith and done something like that, it's come back tenfold in profit and store traffic and all of those things. So, yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I couldn't agree with you more. And you mentioned that you like have to have that in order to be successful in marketing today with your product and generate that brand love. So I'm curious to hear from your perspective, a lot of the marketing leaders of the moment

Starting point is 00:12:27 are more traditional and they're thinking about those out of home, those like traditional avenues of marketing. How can you or somebody in a role that wants to focus on like influencer, PR, partnerships, how can they explain the importance of PR and partnerships to those leaders and like make it make sense? One way to do it, I think that's really impactful is a lot of times when we do working sessions, like planning for the next year, we'll talk about those like hero brands or like aspirational brands of kind of where we want to go. And it's not always same

Starting point is 00:13:03 industry. It's not usually a competitor. It's maybe, you know, we'll say like a brand like Amazon or something like that. And if you look at what they're doing in this space and start like actually fleshing out what they're doing, that's really impactful. So often it has to do with like, you know, giving back or corporate responsibility or, you know, the way that they're authentically connecting with people, experiences that they're providing that no one else has done before. And so I think, I mean, this is like low hanging tactic, but just to say like, okay, if we want to be one of these types of brands, right, if we want to reach that, that next tier and build this brand up, that's what those other brands are doing. And so we don't want to emulate that, but we want to figure out our own way to do it.

Starting point is 00:13:46 I don't know if you have other thoughts. Yeah, I feel like, you know, there is still value in some traditional marketing tactics too. I think what's really needed or what is of value would be turning those things on their head, right? So out of home from a standpoint could you know quote unquote be a little outdated and a little you know more traditional but think about how many iconic

Starting point is 00:14:12 brands are still doing out of home in times square i mean those are moments where it's still super important and so maybe it's less about okay you know they're so stuck on doing out of home. Maybe it's more like, well, how can we make it more relevant to today's consumer? Or how can we, you know, turn it around and say, okay, well, yeah, we'll do out of home, but maybe we tie it to a specific time period or in locations that are unexpected. Or I feel like today, sometimes there's some more interactive ones. And, you know, I know I'm mentioning very specific to one marketing channel, but I do feel like today's leaders, I think they're very focused on the traditional marketing funnel. And so they're trying to reach metrics that really hit home what they can share with, with their stakeholders and with their shareholders and keep everyone happy.

Starting point is 00:15:06 And I think they're forgetting that sometimes for the cost of disruption is risk. And so sometimes you have to go after those moments in a little bit of a different way. I think a really great example of something I saw recently that it reminds me of out of home, it gives me the same feeling is all of these AI generated Instagram posts where brands are taking over these moments. And like one of my favorites I saw was the Maybelline one in London where it looks like there was a giant eyelash on the front of like the tube train car. And I just thought that was so much fun. And I think, you know, taking traditional moments and kind of flipping them on their head is, is really what keeps brands, I feel like, alive.

Starting point is 00:15:49 For sure. Well, and it sounds like you guys have so much knowledge and insight and experience to take and be able to amplify and share with others, which speaking of, I want to talk about Amplified. So if you both can kind of share a little bit about what that is, who it's for, and why did you two create this resource? So Tiana actually came to me and said, okay, I have an idea. Because we both were no longer at Keurig Dr. Pepper, but obviously it's Day Friends and we always were connecting and kind of talking about what we were working on and marketing and all of that. And she said, I feel like there's a hole right now between like there's all this knowledge sharing for influencers of how to work with brands, but not necessarily for brands of how to work with influencers. And then also just knowing like when we were coming up in our careers thankfully we both had mentors i mean we had multiple experiences of everything on the spectrum but we had multiple mentors that were awesome and like really taught us hands-on you know how to do pr how to you know manage these things but there isn't necessarily always that like open knowledge sharing especially big businesses um and so anyway

Starting point is 00:17:02 i can let you kind of jump in too but that's kind of where the idea started is she's like, what if we created something like that? And so we like brainstormed and came up with the name of in college, you're taught marketing basics, right? Like you're taught what, you know, what are the P's of marketing stand for? And you're taught, you know, kind of subjectively what marketing is. But once you get in the job, unless you have a really amazing leader that takes the time to really mentor and teach you how to do these things, there's no knowledge sharing. It almost feels like sometimes it's a little bit of gatekeeping. And so for us, it was how do we break down these barriers to make it where if you are, say, you know, you're interested in working in PR, but you just don't know where to start, or say that you are a small business and you just don't know how to partner with an influencer, you just don't know where to start or say that you are a small business

Starting point is 00:18:05 and you just don't know how to partner with an influencer or you don't know how to pitch a new product or you don't know how to get press coverage. We really just wanted to showcase what the basics are because it shouldn't be something that's necessarily being gatekeeped from everyone, but it's just information that you can learn and then leverage on your own. Yeah. And it's still really interesting to me that even someone who's worked in marketing for a long time, if they've never actually touched PR, like a lot of times big companies will have a PR agency and they kind of handle that. And maybe that, you know, there's general understanding around a press release, but they maybe don't understand how pitching works. Like Tiana was

Starting point is 00:18:44 saying, okay, you draft an email and you send it to them and you might have to call them and follow up. And how do you develop those relationships? And that obviously keeps changing. Like desk sides aren't really a thing since COVID, at least to my knowledge, like it just seems harder and harder to track people down. And so, you know, figuring out creative ways to get in touch with them, that sort of thing. If you are a small business owner, it can just feel almost insurmountable. Like maybe they are actually a great communicator, but they just don't know how to go about it. It's just like the ABCs of, okay, here's how you do it. Here's how it gets done behind the scenes.

Starting point is 00:19:18 Yeah. Oh, that is so awesome. And so needed. I love how you touched on like after college, you aren't learning anymore, or you're just, you know, you're looking on Google or like all of these mainly TikTok, honestly, at this point, but you're just looking and you're seeing all of this information, but you don't know what it's actually valuable information. And so I love that you put that into your course and want to share that with everyone. What can people expect when they do purchase your course? How is it kind of designed to amplify your brand? I think the name that we came up with, Amplified, was truly like it's an educational course to help you kind of get the tools and

Starting point is 00:19:59 resources you need to amplify your brand or a brand that you may work for. And I think, you know, for us, it's really a self-led course. So it's digital, you download it, you take it at your own pace. We have two different tracks. We have a PR track that really teaches kind of like the PR basics. And then we have an influencer track that that kind of walks you through you know influencer marketing and and things as simple as you know how are influencers categorized you know by the size of their following and um you know how would you begin negotiations things like that so that's really kind of the structure of the course yeah and then we also develop these worksheets at the end because i feel like so often, like I

Starting point is 00:20:45 always, I love podcasts and now I've been listening to y'all's. Um, but I'm like, Oh, that's really good. And, but if you don't write it down and make it actionable, it's so hard to like get started. And so as we were doing the videos, we're like, wait, we need worksheets for each of these. And it's nothing hard, but it's just putting pen to paper, like an elevator pitch and, you know, some of the formulas and stuff to kind of take it from, okay, here's what I've learned. And like, how do I actually apply it and start taking the next steps? Absolutely. Super excited about that. And thank you guys for just creating that resource. We can definitely resonate in terms of just seeing this need for professionals and being able to take your expertise and pour it into something

Starting point is 00:21:25 just to help the next generation, which is something I want to talk about here. So curious for you guys, you know, we have a lot of younger professionals listening, a lot of millennial and Gen Z marketers fresh out of college are still there. So curious if you guys both have any insight or advice for young marketing professionals just starting out. I would say don't underestimate yourself because I feel like going into my career, I felt like, oh, everyone knows so much more than me. And that is true because there's more experience there. But especially for Gen Z, I feel like they get a lot of flack. And Tiana and I are millennials, but we both are pro Gen Z. I feel like there's so much value and I've actually, you know, in my

Starting point is 00:22:12 career elevated and supported people right out of school that are, you know, Gen Zers. Cause I'm like, wait, you guys, they really understand what's going on in the TikTok space or they get what's coming up and what's cool. Not to say that we're not cool, but I mean, there's just a lot of value in that perspective. And so, yes, they may not know everything about how to present to senior leadership and how to put together a pitch deck or, you know, fill in the blank, like all of those kind of more mechanics that you learn on the job. That doesn't mean that their opinions aren't valuable. And I think there's actually a ton of value in supporting younger people in the office. So I would say definitely, you know, know your worth and be confident.

Starting point is 00:22:48 And then also just be collaborative. I think especially, I mean, any job, but especially working in marketing, when creative ideas are flying around, it's really easy to be like, this is my idea. I'm going to push this through at all costs. But when you work collaboratively with others, I've seen like either it was my idea or someone else's idea. You can pull different things and there's many different personalities on the team. And that's a good thing. Like I don't want it to be a bunch of Avery's all working on something because we're not going to come up with the best end product. So, you know, it's a combination of like being confident and speaking up, but also knowing when to have some humility and be a team player.

Starting point is 00:23:28 I would say for me, you know, one piece of advice I would give is constantly be open to change. You know, I feel like when I was starting out in my career or the first internship I ever did, it was for Ross discount stores. And I remember thinking, you know, in my head, I was like, this is where I ended up kind of in, not in a bad way, but like, I always thought I was going to work high fashion. Like I always thought I was going to be in New York. And then I ended up in LA and I'm working for, you know, this chain that my dad shops at, like, it was one of those moments where I was like, oh my gosh. And it ended up being one of the best decisions I ever made because it propelled me into my career at JCPenney, which then propelled me into the next opportunity and the next.

Starting point is 00:24:16 And so I would just say, always be open to change, be open to opportunity, just because it doesn't look like a shiny penny at first doesn't mean it's not going to be. And when I say be flexible, I mean that in a sense of, you know, there's been twice in my career where I have taken a demotion in order to set myself up for a better opportunity later. And it's always paid off. And so I just encourage anyone that, you know, maybe frustrated or maybe feel like they are set back to just be patient, be flexible and just be open to opportunity. Such great advice. And I so appreciate that. And I appreciate you sharing about your experience, kind of taking a demotion here and there to then set you up for the success that

Starting point is 00:25:06 you've had. I think that's incredible. And I think it's something that people don't consider ever because they're like, I need to level up and I need to get to that higher tier of a title, or I need to get to that higher salary or whatever, but you got to be thinking long-term about your career and where you want to be. I think in the last like couple of years, a lot of people have been kind of reassessing like, who am I? What do I really care about? What do I really want to be doing with my life and with my career? And I love that you mentioned that because it is so important for people to, you know, be open to that change and be nimble and be ready for whatever the opportunity is that's next for them. So thank you for sharing that. I want to ask too, because we asked this question to every single one of our

Starting point is 00:25:51 guests, but you did answer a little bit around it. If you have anything else that you would share with yourself when you were, you know, either just graduated or just like a few years ago, anything like that, what do you know now that you wish you knew earlier on in your career? This is a good one. I think for me, and this is just being a perpetual people pleaser. I wish that I would have not cared as much of what other people thought. I know that sounds so silly and I'm sure that there's people that are like, oh my God, everyone says that, but it really is true.

Starting point is 00:26:31 Honestly, it's a really good reminder that we work in PR and not ER. And sometimes we take things a little bit too seriously and we care so much about what other people think and i would just say like it's not that serious oh my gosh that's so good i mean i think i touched on a little bit earlier but i think just the confidence piece um and it's obviously a fine line like you don't want to be coming in too hot but i just think that there were a lot of times early on in my career and i quickly you know grew into my voice but i maybe held back a little, whether it was in a big meeting setting or something, because I thought, oh, you know, I'm at the bottom of the totem pole. Like even at Dr. Pepper, five years out of school, that was still considered, you know, entry level, that role that I had. And I wish I would have spoken at more because I don't know. I think you're never going to regret speaking your mind and it doesn't necessarily always have to turn into something.

Starting point is 00:27:29 But, you know, a lot of good can come from that. And that's why you're there. Right. The company is paying you for your expertise and you're in the room for a reason. So owning your spot at the table is not what Charlotte Sandberg says. Yeah. Sit at the table. But don't just sit at the table and be quiet. You got to speak up. Yeah, no, I was there too at one point. So that's so incredibly important. And thank you both for so much advice in this episode. It's just so helpful and insightful and can't wait to apply that to our careers and our lives. But as we are closing out here, we have to know how we can stay in touch with you two.

Starting point is 00:28:07 How can we learn more about Amplified? So tell us all the things, all the links, and we'll include them below as well. So Instagram, which we're going to be having more content soon coming out at Amplified course. It's Amplified with a Y-E-. Um, and then you can find us both on LinkedIn at Tiana James and Avery bash. Tiana has a great Instagram. Um, if Instagram is your thing, I post a lot of my career journey on there at underscore Tiana James.

Starting point is 00:28:46 And she has a TikTok. I love that. Tiana has been really fun on TikTok and their daughter. On TikTok, my caption or like my bio says, girl boss too close to the sun. So I make TikToks for fun. So if you just want to see fun, silly things, it's TikTok. Oh my gosh.

Starting point is 00:29:06 It's so fun. We love that. We love the balance of professional and just personality and doing whatever on TikTok. So love that. Awesome. Well, thank you both so much. This has been such a wonderful conversation and can't wait to continue rooting you guys on as you build your course, launch new things. And Tiana, whatever's coming up for you too.

Starting point is 00:29:26 We're excited to hear more about that. But thank you both so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thank y'all so much. This was so fun. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Marketing Happy Hour podcast. If you enjoyed this episode,

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Marketing Happy Hour - PR + Influencer Marketing: Back to the Basics with Amplifyed | Tiana James (prev. Victoria's Secret PINK) + Avery Bash (prev. Smoothie King)

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