Marketing Happy Hour - Recruiter Talks: Selling Yourself, Networking + Landing Roles | Kelly Gordon of Creative People

Starting point is 00:00:00 No matter where you're at in your career, you need to always be yourself. I think that people look at networking or it has this really bad connotation that you have to be at like a networking event and you're wearing a tag on your chest where I look at every opportunity I have on the street, at my office, wherever it is as a chance to network. There's a lot, a lot of value of not looking at networking as such a serious stuffy thing, but just being true to yourself and being able to represent yourself and what you do to the world. Welcome to Marketing Happy Hour. I'm Cassie,

Starting point is 00:00:36 consultant, podcaster, and your host. Every Thursday, you'll hear episodes packed with insights from brand leaders on an array of topics from crafting effective marketing strategies and hitting career goals to building leadership skills and launching your own business. Inspired by those unfiltered happy hour combos with peers, this show is all about practical, empowering chats to support your professional journey. So grab your favorite drink and let's get on the show. Welcome. Hi, so happy to be here. I feel the same about you. And anytime I get a note or a notification from you, always happy to see your face. Yes, such a big cheerleader of yours.

Starting point is 00:01:34 You're amazing. Please follow Kelly. That's like the first plug of this episode. Follow Kelly on LinkedIn, Instagram. Love just watching your life unfold in general. But Kelly, I of course have to ask, and then we're going to dive into this topic just about networking and how do you land positions and the outlook of what kind of the job hunt is looking like right now, but what's

Starting point is 00:01:56 been in your glass lately? First, I got to know. Um, I'm a big Olay girl, So I get coffee, drip coffee with steamed almond milk, um, just to hug in a glass, but it really is my favorite and I will never give up coffee. So I love it. No, I, there's certain things that people are like, you shouldn't be drinking this or doing this, whatever. I'm like, I'm so sorry. Like, I don't care. I don't care what you say. Like, it's not gonna, it's not gonna work for me. So yes. Okay. So let's, let's dive in here. Like, of course I want to know too, what is the latest with you, with creative people? What have you guys been up to? I mean, obviously like one of the day-to-day things we were kind of talking about off record is like navigating the changes in the job market, like what's happening for brands and also those looking to find their next position. But yeah, what are you guys been kind of diving into lately?

Starting point is 00:02:54 Yeah. What is great is we are really busy, meaning that people are definitely still hiring. I know it doesn't feel that way all the time, but we tend to be the forecasters because it means that brands have money to get great talent. So we've been really busy. I think, too, as a brand, we've been working really hard to also give more tools to candidates outside of just helping them get a job through us because there's limited amounts of jobs that come through us. But we've really kicked our social into high gear. So if anyone, um, doesn't follow creative people on Tik TOK or Instagram, I highly, highly recommend. We have an amazing social person who is just giving so many tips and tricks beyond, you know, things that we post day to day, as well as like these opportunities that we have with the

Starting point is 00:03:45 team. Yes. I could not stress that enough to your guys's social. So good. And again, I share it all the time on Instagram. So if you follow marketing happy hour, you've probably seen it. Thank you. All of us. Yes. Okay. Yes, exactly. No, same for you guys, for sure. So one of the topics today I want to dive into is networking and talk a lot about that on the show. Right. But like, again, your tips are so good, so actionable. So I'm just curious to like, depending on where someone's at in their job hunt journey, if they're, you know, satisfied with the job that they're at currently, and they don't see a different step anywhere near the future, or if they're actively hunting for the next step, like how do you recommend professionals approach

Starting point is 00:04:36 networking differently depending on, you know, that season they're in? Okay, I would always say take the call. I always, always, always say take the call because even if it has nothing directly to do with you, one, you should be flattered that people are reaching out. You don't have to take spam calls, but two, you never know where it's going to lead you. You could literally find your next apartment through a networking call, but that is like a crazy case scenario if you live in New York. But I do think that a lot of the times I'll hear my candidates say that they ended up in their current role by taking a call with someone three years ago that they hadn't really talked to but kept in touch with, constantly kind of going back and forth with them. And then they came to mine. I just think that there's no harm.

Starting point is 00:05:24 You could even set a boundary and say, I have 15 minutes. And then they came to mine. I just think that there's no harm. You can even set a boundary and say, I have 15 minutes. Like that's all I have for you for this call. If you're not looking, if you are looking, always take the call as well. Even if you think it's not necessarily a brand or a job that you're interested in at the end of the day, you have no idea what will come from it. And things are typically very, very different when you're talking to someone one-on-one. I would also say, no matter where you're at in your career, and this is like, if you're younger, if you're older, you need to always be yourself. I think that people look at networking or it has this really bad connotation that you have to be at like a networking event that's in a weird building and you're wearing a tag on your chest where I sadly enough look at every opportunity I have on the street at my office wherever it is as a chance to network. I love my job and I don't think everyone loves their job, but the ideas you need to put out into the universe, what you do and who you are. And again, even at a party,

Starting point is 00:06:33 you don't need to dive super deep into what someone does and make the whole conversation about work. But I've connected people in a room together that are both designers or ones are creative or one actually had founded a company and needed advice from someone else. And I just think there's a lot, a lot of value of not looking at networking as such a serious stuffy thing, but just being true to yourself and being able to, um, like represent yourself and what you do to the world. Yeah. And that's why too, I think like I talk to people all the time about like getting to know people on a human level is just like one simple approach that you can take people to your point, feel like they have to be this buttoned up, like only showing the professional

Starting point is 00:07:16 side of things. Obviously there's boundaries with the personal stuff too. When, when you first get to meet someone as well, but like peel the curtain back, like let people get to know you find that relatability factor or whatever. And that's so huge for launching that relationship, but also continuing it down the road and just having long-term conversations. Yeah. I will say though, if you are younger and earlier in your career, I do think there's a little bit of a difference if you're asking for advice or trying to find a mentor or something like that. Those conversations need to be really pointed and pretty sharp on what you want to get out of it. They are doing you a favor, like they really are.

Starting point is 00:08:00 And as much as people love mentoring or networking with younger individuals, they don't have to be doing it. So you really do get like a privilege and come in with three or four smart questions, whether it's about their career trajectory or if there's something super specific, like, hey, in my portfolio, would you change the layout? Like, does this make sense? If you read through this, how would you walk away from it? So there's a little bit of a difference there. I really don't think a coffee chat is just

Starting point is 00:08:31 a coffee chat if you're just starting out and you're talking to someone that you're seeking advice from. Okay. So on that too, say someone's reaching out to someone for the first time they've never met. And the goal is to have like one of those coffee chats like they just want to kind of like meet them and get to know their story how should someone be approaching that kind of conversation like do you tell someone what you're looking to get out of it first email um do you hold that off like what how how should we be connecting with people for the first time that way yeah i think it's actually helpful to give them the context of what you're looking for. Even for me, sometimes people are like, I would love to pick your brain and I really don't want to come off sounding mean, but I'm like, pick my brain about what? Like I, I need to know because I, maybe I'm not even the right person

Starting point is 00:09:23 to help you. And maybe it's a longer conversation or I can actually respond with some materials that we've already put together of how to go about something. So I don't know why that question triggers me so much or even that statement. I'd love to pick your brain. Just tell them about what? I'd love to pick your brain about figuring out how to market myself in social here's my portfolio in 10 minutes would love to just like get high level thoughts on that so I'm told you don't need to give a paragraph or two paragraphs you know individually you're probably not even going to read that either. So super quick to the point, but tell them why you're reaching out and what you want from them.

Starting point is 00:10:10 Yeah. Great advice. I was at a conference last week and one of the speakers, she was like, I know this sounds kind of harsh, but if there's not an agenda or kind of goal of a meeting outlined for you, like, feel free to decline the meeting. And so I think similar thing goes for here, right? Like people want to know, like, why are you reaching out to them? Like, what is the point of having a conversation? Because to your point, you don't want to waste their time or your time doesn't want to be wasted. So it's just, it's important to have that clear intention laid out. So, and I will say too, again, not to sound harsh, but I'm trying to be like, put yourself in this person's shoes. If this is a CMO of a very popular company, you can probably imagine how many messages they're getting a day. And I'm not saying don't shoot your shot, but just like have, manage your expectations, you know, or do something really crazy because you're obsessed with the brand and this is your chance to really make a mark. But again, if someone's not responding to you, it's because

Starting point is 00:11:10 they have a full-time job and they're really busy and they're, they might already have two or three people that they've carved that time for. So again, just manage expectations. Yeah. So let's talk to networking on LinkedIn. I know like both of our probably favorite social media platform. So what are some common mistakes you're seeing people make when it comes to connecting with others on LinkedIn? I know this is a big topic just like in the career space in general. Like, should you be adding a message to your connection requests? Like, how should you be connecting to people? When should you connect to people? So I'm just curious if you were to think of like one or a few mistakes you see professionals making and how can they remedy those? One thing that I learned from my boss and CEO, we all have our own markets that we work within.

Starting point is 00:12:01 So he was like, you need to delete everyone out of your LinkedIn that has nothing to do with your world. And I know that sounds harsh, but you don't need to know your brother's best friend who does, um, like accounting somewhere. And like, you don't need them there. You want your feed to be full of people and individuals and brands that are super related to your world. And honestly, if you're in marketing, I'd be like, yeah, creative is great. Um, sometimes product, but I try to keep my feed very tailored to the market that I'm in and that I want to be in. I think with messaging, this is a little nuance and I do want to preface that all these opinions are my own, but what's worked for

Starting point is 00:12:45 me and how I've responded to people I think if you're connecting with a recruiter you do not need to really give them a message on why you're connecting with them our job is to be very connected to people regardless and I would maybe say that for any internal recruiters as well some people may think differently but just so everyone knows, when we get a message on, if you connect with someone on LinkedIn and there's a message there, it'll pop up as soon as you hit connect. And I typically have 10 to 11 LinkedIn windows open. So my computer typically crashes and I actually don't connect with people that send me messages. I know it's crazy, but I will say it's a common

Starting point is 00:13:25 theme here. If you are connecting with someone in your network or someone you admire, I would send a quick little message of, Hey, I do brand marketing at so-and-so. I really admired your work that I saw in Soho, in the billboard, whatever. It's a nice touch. You should be connecting with people at all times. It does a nice touch. You should be connecting with people at all times. It does not matter. I honestly would say connect with them before you need something from them because you'll be able to kind of build that relationship up by commenting, liking, being shown in their feed, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. So you mentioned hiring managers, recruiters. So going back to kind of just the general relationship building, how can people start building relationships with recruiters before they even need a job? I know this is something that typically, you know, people are on the hunt, and this is something they start doing as a reactive task, right? But like, should we be actively connecting with people from those

Starting point is 00:14:27 brands that are those aspirational companies we want to work for like all the time? Like, how do you recommend relationship building with that specific group? I literally like max your requests out for the week, every week, which is crazy, but you should be um you should actively just be connecting with them I do think something that I was thinking about was if you think about Instagram and someone follow you on Instagram and they have like two photos they're private follow like 10 people like it looks sketchy and I know just like it's weird but like I would know it's just like, it's weird, but like, I would actually, before you even start connecting, try to give yourself some type of online or LinkedIn, uh, personality. Again, you do not need to be a thought leader, but add a photo, tell us where you work,

Starting point is 00:15:19 what your job title is, what your jobs have been, and then start connecting with people. Because a lot of the time, like I'm going to just keep going back, put yourself in someone else's shoes that you're trying to connect with. I'm just like, this person's not real. So that's the first thing I would say. And then again, constantly be connecting. I think it's easier to break the ice with someone by commenting on a post that they make than messaging and just like building up a slow, warm intro where they're constantly kind of seeing you in their orbit makes it a bit easier. But I also wouldn't expect too much from these people if you're not looking and you're asking them to connect. They might not be able to make the time for you immediately. Yeah. And then with that too, just beyond sending emails, sending connection requests, are there any other things that we

Starting point is 00:16:13 should be doing to build relationships with those recruiters and those key hiring managers just outside of maybe even it's outside of digital? I don't know, but like anything just to stay on the radar of those people so that when the time comes for us to look for a position, maybe at that company, like we're kind of, we have that authority quote unquote established or that relationship established with them. Yeah. I would say even taking a quick step back, because I do think a lot of people don't know how recruiters typically work. So companies hire us to hire for specific jobs. My job is to constantly be networking and having a pulse on who's who, who's doing what, what brands are going on. But it's really, my schedule is back to back. So it's

Starting point is 00:17:00 really, really hard for us to be making time for people that have nothing to do with the four or five jobs at hand. So I don't want people to be offended when someone is like, I'm not looking right now, but would love to catch up and get on your radar. Instead, what I would say and what I've been kind of preaching to people or replying back to people is I unfortunately do not have the time right now to get on a call with you. If you could send me an email with really like the breakdown of what I'd even be asking you on a call, which is one, your LinkedIn, any portfolio, resume is fine. I don't really need that. But then what you're looking for, even things from like titling to scope of role, maybe even relating it a little bit back to three things that you've found you've done successfully in your current role, salary requirements, location requirements, as much context as possible. And honestly,

Starting point is 00:18:00 that can change, but we get new roles all the time. So if you're emailing me in January and I'm like, oh, okay, like we'll clock it. We put you in our system. We have the info to do it. So that was a little bit roundabout way of saying it, but I would reach out with full context on who you are, what you're looking for. And then if they're not reaching out to you, it's because we're just not relevant for the role on hand. Yeah. And to your point too, it sounds like, how can you save as much of the recruiter's time and the forefront as possible and answering those anticipated questions before you even get them? Like, don't even give the recruiter the chance to say, well, tell me who you are. Like literally answer those questions in your initial outreach. And to your point, that helps like kind of set the stage of why you're reaching out or for what roles, et cetera. And I'll put you in the database, but if all I have is like a resume and I'm like, I don't really know what they've done, what they're looking for, salary requirements, location requirements. That's how I find a lot of people like I treasure my database. So, um,

Starting point is 00:19:04 if I don't have that info from you up front, chances are like, you're not going to pop up for me. So yeah, I totally agree, Cassie. Yeah. So I have to ask kind of on that too. Like there's a lot of people that I know personally currently searching for positions, a lot of, a lot of jobs out there, but also talent, just like figuring out how do I get in front of the right people? And then when I do get in front of the right people, like, what do I provide them? What should my resume look like, et cetera. So as we're recording this April, 2025, are there any like quick hits? And again, this is your specific opinion.

Starting point is 00:19:40 I know recruiters opinions vary on this stuff, but like resume length format, should we have a LinkedIn? Like how built out should the LinkedIn be? Like any like quick wins that we should be thinking about when approaching the job hunt? Please use your LinkedIn. I don't think resumes give you enough areas to play with. I look at LinkedIn as your personal website for working or networking your career. Resumes are great, but I can download

Starting point is 00:20:06 your LinkedIn if you have enough info on the end. Um, and I would say that something kind of crazy that I, I know people always are trying to stand out and, but, but like as a recruiter and as we're sourcing people and looking for people, or as you pop up in our inbox, you need to be using normal titles. Like I do not know, like, I want you to say you're a brand marketing manager. If you're a brand marketing manager versus like making up this like crazy cultural, I'm like, is that a real role or what is that? Like, you should be very clear on what it is you do day to day versus like trying to get creative there. But I would say LinkedIn is your best friend. I know people are really stuck up on these, um, like the,

Starting point is 00:20:51 the bots with the resumes here at creative people, we read every single, um, resume. So I actually have no idea how to help you there. So that's why I'm like, get your LinkedIn to a place that you feel shows your personality and also can speak to the work that you've done. Okay. Yeah. Great advice. I know. Cause I have a lot of people asking me and I'm like, number one, it depends on like what kind of system is filtering this stuff. But I know LinkedIn anyways, like is a hot place. I know for you guys, like you're posting jobs on there. You're asking like, who do you know? Is this you like comment below, DM me, whatever. So it's just a place where a lot of those conversations

Starting point is 00:21:30 are happening anyway. So like having a profile that speaks to all of that answers, those questions is huge. So that if a recruiter lands on your page, it's answering that. And that's a gateway to, to communicate with you directly too. Also, if you do have a portfolio, put it in your LinkedIn. If you're in the creative or marketing field, there's lots of places you can put it, but it makes it easy for us. I don't want to always be like, make it easy for us, but truly the easier you can make it for us, the better chance you have of us finding you and being excited about you. Yeah. So, okay. So we've talked a little bit about this, but I want to discuss like this notion of inbound opportunities. So like we've talked a lot about how do you go and reach out to recruiters? How do you build

Starting point is 00:22:16 relationships with people actively? Like you're the one initiating these conversations, but this idea of inbound marketing, like attracting opportunities. I know this is a little bit, depending on, I guess, the level of relationship that you have with the brand, this could be a little bit nuanced here, but how can people brand themselves, whether online, in-person, so that the right connections maybe come to them, they're thought of for opportunities, like would love to hear your thought on that too I'll give two different ways of doing this that are very very different the first one is I am a huge believer and I talk about it all the time I said it earlier but you really need to put out into the universe what you're looking for

Starting point is 00:22:57 and what you want and that means if you are in a social setting and you feel comfortable talking about, I'm quietly looking and I'm really interested actually in getting a little bit further in my design career versus my art direction career, or I'm looking to take on clients in the food space. Right now, I work in B2B, but you just need to start telling people because you'll be top of mind. Like you always want to be top of mind. And if no one knows what you're looking for, what you do, like, how are you going to pop up into their mind? That is the fun one. And then the other one that is just a little bit more time consuming or like task oriented is the way that recruiting works on LinkedIn is we have a whole backend system where we are putting in so many different keywords.

Starting point is 00:23:48 We're putting in types of brands. We're putting in titles and all these different things. So I would say like you on your profile should make it as easily searchable as possible. I'm sure you could look up an article to that, like someone at LinkedIn on the product team has created, but you know, if you live in New York and, or say you're remote and you're looking for jobs in New York, you can always put open to relocation in New York. There's such crazy things you can do with this. So they, I know that LinkedIn for someone that's looking has a lot of tools, even if you're not looking, but you're like, I love beauties somewhere on your profile, there should be like beauty, skincare, brand marketing, out of home, whatever. So like you should be trying to get the

Starting point is 00:24:39 keywords onto your profile so that we can then search you on the backend and you'll pop up into our searches. And then with that too, like posting, being consistent on the platform, like sharing what you're working on, like how important is that? And like, how do you recommend professionals again, whether, whether or not they're currently searching or just kind of like happy with where they're currently at now, like how should we be building our personal brand in that way? If at all, you think it's super interesting, because I do think that we have had companies come to us and be like, well, they're not active on LinkedIn. Like, are they happy with the company that they're at? Are they proud of it? I think that's a little bit unfair,

Starting point is 00:25:20 because yeah, I need to love our jobs. But but you know, people are actually starting to look at your presence on LinkedIn and how you interact with your, your personal work as well as what's out there in the world. I also think internally, it's a really good tool. People in your network, or, you know, they could be adjacent to you, don't even know you, but they're starting to see you pop up on linkedin just like gives you more visibility into your own company like we all do work a lot of people work at smaller companies but say you work at a large organization you'll make yourself more known within that organization so i would say again you don't even need to be posting thought leadership

Starting point is 00:26:03 i always am talking about that. You could talk about how, I mean, I post memes on mine, which is, I just use it like I would myself as a human. And I wouldn't ever want to be posting thought leadership because that's not how I roll. So you just stay authentic to yourself and you kind of post what you know. And maybe all you know is that you liked, um, a TikTok that came out over the weekend about a white Lotus scene. Yep. Love it. Yeah. That's great. I mean, that's such a good reminder too. Cause like ultimately you don't want someone to come to meet you too and be like, this is not the person that I read

Starting point is 00:26:42 the five posts on. Like you are a very different person. Like that's not a good look either. Like we're all about transparency and trust building and everything. So yeah, to your point, like there's not really, I don't think like a perfect blueprint for posting on LinkedIn anymore. Like do your thing that people who are standing out are posting like very off the wall,

Starting point is 00:27:00 like unique to them stuff. Exactly. Yeah. Great advice. So there's a lot of people right now also asking themselves, like, why did this person land this role? Or why did they land an interview? And like, I can't even get a single interview. I've submitted so many resumes to all these different companies. Like, what do you think is the differentiator with these people successfully landing opportunities right now today

Starting point is 00:27:25 in this current job climate? I think there is a lot of being able to sell yourself and there's lots of different ways that you can sell yourself. You do not need to, I mean, I can't even hardly talk about myself. This is a new thing for me. And so I think where that came from is like, you know, fake it till you make it. Have a little bit of confidence in who you are as an individual and not just like what your work is. But being able to speak about yourself in a clear, succinct way, being able to portray your work in a way that people can understand it, a.k.a AKA having a great portfolio or a Canva or even a resume for that. Um, numbers always speak volumes, but I do think that we talk about selling yourself all the time, but there's many different ways that you can do that.

Starting point is 00:28:18 That's not necessarily like putting your sales hat on and, you know, feeling goofy about it. Yeah. Well, and lucky enough, we are hosting a webinar coming up. This is, I know a first for me personally with the marketing happy hour brand and excited to collaborate with you guys on this because we did our event last year. It was amazing. And so we're like chatting, how can we just offer more value, collaborate on that stuff? So we have a webinar coming up. I believe it is going to be the end of this month. The biggest recommendation I have is I'll drop a link in the show notes, sign up for the email list. We'll make sure to notify you as soon as that's coming up, but we're going to talk about selling

Starting point is 00:29:01 yourself and just like, how can you do that to prepare for a job search? Or also if you're not currently on the hunt, like what can you be doing now to prepare to have those conversations? Writing your elevator pitch, like what does that look like when you go to first meet someone for the first time? How do you talk about yourself? So I'm looking forward to it. I know we're going to dive into some different things. Like I guess for you too, I would love to know, like as a teaser, is there anything else just around selling yourself that you're excited to touch on or things that you like to pass along to people when you have conversations on that topic? I like to talk about confidence. It's so hard to get there, but the faking it till you make it is a big one as well as, um, showing drive and

Starting point is 00:29:47 passion, being passionate and like charismatic about anything usually attracts people. So, um, just ways that you can do that without coming off like overly eager, but just showing that you care. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited it's I gotta know too it's gonna be live so you'll have the chance to you know meet Kelly like ask questions and everything not to put Kelly on the spot we'll do all the things I'm excited it's gonna be great I mean you were amazing at the panel we did last year like such such good questions from the audience. I'm sure that's always fun to just to see like how people are thinking about a specific topic, like what they're asking, what's on their mind. So I'm looking forward to it. That's not fun, but I'll get back to you. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Well, Kelly, as always,

Starting point is 00:30:42 this has been great. Thank you so much for passing on your networking and all the tips today. Excited for that webinar and excited for future conversations. But I have to ask, we've like teased your LinkedIn and all of your channels as well as creative people, but where specifically can we find you and then the company online? Yeah. Connect with me at, um, on LinkedIn, Kelly Gordon, it'll be under the creative people umbrella and everyone on our team has a specific market that they recruit within. So I highly suggest kind of poking through the creative people page to see which recruiters would be correct for you. We also have a freelance team. So for freelancers, full-time, et cetera,

Starting point is 00:31:22 like connect with as many people on the team as possible. But then if you're reaching out, as I mentioned before, make sure it's relevant to that specific recruiter. Yeah. We'll, we'll know if you stayed to the end of this episode, if you do that correctly, that's your, that's your quiz for this episode. Kelly, thank you so much as always. Uh, again, stay tuned for that webinar. We'll have the link below. We'll share on our socials, like when that's officially going live and going out, but thanks again. Really appreciate it. So great seeing you Cassie. Bye. Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, I would love your feedback. And if you're ready to take things to the next level,

Starting point is 00:32:05 sign up for my weekly newsletter in the show notes. You'll get weekly career and marketing insights straight to your inbox. And if you have an idea for a future Marketing Happy Hour episode, shoot me an email. Hello at marketinghappyhr.com. Thank you again, and I'll see you next Thursday.

Marketing Happy Hour - Recruiter Talks: Selling Yourself, Networking + Landing Roles | Kelly Gordon of Creative People

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