Marketing Happy Hour - Refining Your Communications Skills | Communications Expert Caitlin Busscher (prev. The Walt Disney Company)

Starting point is 00:00:00 you're listening to the marketing happy hour podcast where we discuss career and industry insights with our peers in marketing we're here to talk about it all like the ups and downs of working in social media how to build authentic relationships in the influencer and pr space managing a nine-to-five and a side hustle at the same time, how to be productive in your life and career without losing your sanity, and more. Ultimately, we're here to build a community with you because we're all trying to navigate the world of marketing together. Are you ready? Grab your favorite drink and join your hosts, Cassie and Erica, for this week's episode. Hey, Marketing Happy Hour listeners,

Starting point is 00:00:53 welcome back and thank you so much for being here. We have a fun conversation for you this week. Cassie is catching up with content and communications strategist, Caitlin Buescher. After a decade with the Walt Disney Company, Caitlin now serves as a communications executive in the finance industry. And in this episode, Caitlin shares her thoughts on leadership, communication strategies, refining your writing skills, and more. Grab your favorite drink and listen in to our latest marketing happy hour conversation. Caitlin, I'm so excited to have you on today. Thank you for, for joining me on the show. How are you doing? I'm doing awesome. Thank you. And

Starting point is 00:01:35 I apologize in advance. If you hear my cat, she's right here with me in my work home space, but she's happy to be here too. That's all right. We are, we are so into like the real, just vulnerable, normal environments. And so totally embracing that for you, but, um, no, thank you for joining us. We're, we're very excited or joining me. I should say, since Erica's not with us today. Uh, but before we get into the conversation, I do have to ask you a very important question that of course is an ode to our show's theme, but Caitlin, what is in your glass this afternoon? Or what are you are, what are you recently enjoying sipping on in the afternoons or just

Starting point is 00:02:13 throughout your day? Really? That's a good question. My summer drink is a gin and tonic and my husband gets really fancy with it. Sometimes it's elderflower squeezes engine to it. So that's been kind of my summer after work, you know, kind of relaxed drink of choice. I love it. That sounds delicious. Um, I do love a gin and tonic. I haven't had one in a while. Um, but that's, that's a go-to in the

Starting point is 00:02:38 past. At least I needed to sip on one more recently. I just have water right now, but typically I will have an Aperol spritz. It's my absolute favorite. I know, um, you have worked at the Riviera recently, uh, from there. And that is one of the best places in my opinion to order one and just sit outside by the water and enjoy the Aperol spritz. But I am looking forward to doing that again here soon. Oh, let's go do it together. Yes. Right after this, we're headed there. Um, but no, Caitlin, can you just kind of give us an overview of your experience and how you landed to where you are today? Well, I will try to give you the abridged version because I have a very circuitous kind of

Starting point is 00:03:22 career path. Um, I started out as a communications major. So communications has always been my passion. I think it's because one, I love talking, but I also love writing and essentially connecting with people. And I think that's something that communications and marketing has in common. It's about connecting with your audience. Sometimes that's through creating content. It could be through creating campaigns, but that's been the common thread throughout my entire career. I worked in publicity for a little bit in New York City. When I was first out of college, I decided I wanted to pursue my dreams and I packed up my little car and I drove down here to Florida where I was sure I was going to

Starting point is 00:04:01 be in a Disney parade, waving and dancing. That was the dream. That's not what happened. I actually got into Consumer Insights instead, which in itself was really interesting to kind of get that ground level view of what guests coming into the park kind of experience. During my almost 10 years with the Walt Disney Company, I served a lot of time as an operational leader, which again gave me that firsthand experience with guests, but also with cast members and who I was leading. And that to me kind of established my people-centered communications and leadership style and really making sure that the employee is at the base of how you deliver excellent service and kind of deliver on those marketing promises. It's such a big company. I served as an official representative for the Walt Disney Company for

Starting point is 00:04:49 two years, which was incredible. Learned a lot in the public affairs department and how, you know, a international brand name really protects its reputation and promotes it for internal and external stakeholders. And spent a little time in China randomly in there, hopped on over. Awesome. Lived in Shanghai for a year. Again, just to experience a different culture, pursue my passions of being a travel blogger. So we can talk about that later if you want. That kind of spun off into different realms. I came back to the States. I joined a technology, travel technology startup as their communications executive, went back to Disney for a short time, was laid off

Starting point is 00:05:30 during COVID. And that's kind of where I really doubled down on my content marketing experience. I've kind of, the tools I kind of gathered over time to find right fit opportunities. That was a really big point for me and led me into more of a senior level executive position within communications. And that's where I am today. In a nutshell, that was like, I don't know if I could, it's like over a decade. I love it. Oh my gosh. So cool. And it's so funny how you mentioned going from New York to coming down here to Florida, where we both are here in central Florida and pursuing entertainment there, you and I have kind of swapped experiences. So I started in New York or no,

Starting point is 00:06:12 I'm sorry. I went to Disney to pursue entertainment, ended up being in operations myself, which I agree has such a impactful, uh, just piece for your, your future engagements with work, learning how to speak with customers and guests, as I should say, um, and just creating memorable experiences for people. And I think a lot of that can be applied in the marketing space as well, uh, but did that. And then eventually ended up in New York. So you and I kind of swapped, but it's so cool to hear just how those diverse experiences have kind of helped you develop your skill sets and communications and dabbling in marketing as well. And it's just so cool to see how you speak of those experiences and going to

Starting point is 00:06:57 China. Oh my gosh, it's, it's incredible. I did not do that, but that's so cool to hear. So thank you for sharing that. Um, but you mentioned that you were laid off. So I would love to hear, because this is something a lot of people are facing recently or have in the past few years, you know, given some of the things we've gone through, uh, but do you have any tips for getting back out there and making yourself hireable per se, following a layoff? This is an interesting question because I feel like I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. I think it's an incredible resource to learn and also to connect with people. And I see this come up a lot where there are some folks who almost feel like, you know, don't put your open for work sign up or don't too desperate and to each their own. But I

Starting point is 00:07:43 found the exact opposite to be true, especially in the time that we are in where a lot of people are going through a common experience. There is an opportunity to leverage and lean into your community to find that commonality. When I was laid off, it was with thousands, thousands of people all at the same time. So it was right at the peak of COVID. And at that time, I was actually in my third trimester. I mean, I just had my son and I went to my network and decided, you know what? I applied for jobs. I applied for jobs. I blind applied. I sent my resume in and I just got auto reject, auto reject, auto reject. And I was tired of feeling very not in control of anything. So I took it as an

Starting point is 00:08:30 opportunity to double down on my strengths, which was content creation, writing, making videos, being a spokesperson, talking about personal brand and adding value because I knew there were other people in a similar position. So I said, what can I do to kind of use my skillset to give back to others? I did one-on-one coachings. I created videos and resources that I posted. And what I found was this was almost like this marketing goal. I wasn't even necessarily trying to do marketing. I was just trying to connect with my audience and I knew my audience very well. And I was trying to do it in an authentic way because I was in the same place as them. I got a new baby and I got no job. It was a vulnerable place to be in, but I found that leaning into that vulnerability and trying to help other people was what started working as far as people reaching

Starting point is 00:09:22 out to me for those right fit opportunities. When you put yourself out there in an authentic way, you're going to attract the right fit opportunities. They're going to come to you. So that's, that's what I did during that time. And that's actually how this job that one I'm currently in found me. So it was, it was really successful and I've continued to have relationships with these people over the years. There's a lot of people I still connect with and still seeing people out in the market. I know, I guess I would say to people, I know it gets really discouraging and frustrating. It's easy to internalize that and feel like it's you, but take it as an opportunity. Try to flip the script and see what you can outward instead of trying to hope someone picks you. I always said it was

Starting point is 00:10:05 like being on the bachelor where you're like, please give me a rose and no one loves feeling that way. So if you can find a way to kind of flip that script and advocate for yourself, that to me was one of my best strategies. Oh, I love that. I think back to one of the recent episodes we had with Amelia, my friend who was also at Disney. She's amazing. She was on the podcast for an open for hire episode, and she was also laid off in the past year, but she did such a fantastic job at doing the same thing of just sharing her story with people. Because as you mentioned, there's kind of a twofold benefit to that. Not only are you sharing that story to allow others who are going through something similar

Starting point is 00:10:48 to kind of connect and feel seen and heard, uh, but you are letting people know you're available and open to hire. Cause I think a lot of times we just assume opportunities are going to come to us. And when it happens, it happens, but you have to kind of, like you said, advocate for yourself, push, push for yourself and kind of share those experiences. And someone's going to see that they're going to see opportunity in you for those opportunities. So I'm glad you mentioned that. That's great advice. Thank you. Yeah, it was a tough time, but you know, I feel for everyone going through that right now, for sure. Yeah. Well, speaking of that, why has building your personal brand on LinkedIn and other platforms impacted your career and future opportunities?

Starting point is 00:11:30 I know that's something that it sounds like wouldn't have necessarily happened. Maybe it would have down the road, but wouldn't have necessarily happened at that same time if you hadn't been laid off. So how has that kind of turned into a positive note to allow you to seek out new opportunities in your career? I've always considered, you know, social media content creations always been kind of my playground. I call myself an accidental influencer. If, you know, micro nano, I don't even know what you want to call it.

Starting point is 00:11:59 I guess labeling it that, um, but for me, I've always been a communicator. I love, I love to write ever since I was a kid. So when I decided I was going to be a famous travel blogger and move to China, I realized I didn't even have a smartphone up until that point. So it was 2017, 2018. I was still flip phone in it. But to me, I said, okay, if I want to write and I want to drive people to read my words, how do I do that? And I started just kind of researching and playing with social media and seeing what worked and what didn't, which if I pull this lever, does it, you know, does my audience react well? Do they like this kind of content? And honestly, for me, learning new platforms and being in it myself, like I could read a book, I could take an e-course, but being active and

Starting point is 00:12:50 learning the algorithm changes has actually, I feel like helped make me a better communicator and marketer because I'm in it. And not to say that I'm an expert, I am, you know, by no means, my TikTok is still, I still feel like I'm sold for that realm, but I'm trying, but it's been really fun to, to be in the weeds with some of those things and to try to learn it for myself. And I feel like overall that's helped me as a professional because I can help lead through that better because I haven't, you know, it's just like going back to that little baby Caitlin manager in the parks, understanding from the ground floor, what makes things tick? What does your audience

Starting point is 00:13:31 respond well to? It's the same thing in the social world. It's a constantly changing, evolving new platforms, threads is out now. So it's just important, even if you're not in that part of your career where you're in the weeds, creating, you know, videos or, you know, content, it's still important that you're up to speed on all of that. And for me, that is doing it myself. Um, so it's been a lot of fun and I do feel like that's made me a more valuable as a professional as I've progressed. Yeah. Such good advice. I think that's something that you can take to whether it's clients, your employer and say, listen, I've tested this on my own account. This is the result of it.

Starting point is 00:14:12 This is kind of what happened, what I saw with my audience. And you're right. It kind of adds a lot more power and impact to that strategy. So with that though, I love how you called yourself an accidental influencer. I love that so much. I feel like that's kind of happened to a lot of people. Nowadays, you hear all these stories where they say, oh, I posted this one post and I decided this is something I wanted to do. Maybe it blew up or maybe it just people resonated with my story or whatever it is.

Starting point is 00:14:41 Uh, but what I'm, I'm curious because I know there's a lot of even professionals in the corporate space who are building their own, uh, you know, kind of brands on the side. Uh, but what qualities and skills do you believe have landed you some partnerships that you've had the chance to work on? I think some of the most, so I've worked with a few brands and I think what's been beneficial for me is that I've grown my audience pretty authentically. the people in my accounts, I know, I know a lot of them, like second degree, know a lot of them, which has been really great for connection and, and just feeling like I'm not talking to a bunch of strangers. And I think that comes back to, cause that wasn't my purpose setting out. My purpose was truly like, I love connecting with people. I love creating content. I want to write things that people find valuable when, you know, I'm a performer.

Starting point is 00:15:46 So when someone's like, wow, good job. It's like rewarding. And, you know, if someone says, hey, you really helped me out during a tough time, that's really rewarding. So I think approaching something with an authenticity. And of course, you know, I do play the game sometimes like this is fun. Like this did well, this didn't. I wonder why, but for the most part, it's, it's not about like how big a following can I get?

Starting point is 00:16:11 It's how many people can I authentically connect with? And I think, um, one of the brands I work with again, I am, I don't have a huge following, but I know a lot of the folks and she, uh, she's a, um, it's, it's, uh, the company's called hey june um i love them they're wonderful she's a single mom and you know an all-female all-women run business and they had reached out to me which i never thought like someone's reaching out to me yeah a partner that's me are you sure because i'm not like i'm not like i'm an influencer like I think you have this wrong, but I've worked with them now for a few years. And, um, and they, they've said that it's one of the top links that gets used. And I think I've generated like probably close to 40, $50,000 in revenue for them. And that's just, just doing it on the side. Cause I

Starting point is 00:16:59 love, I love it. Not because I'm like, Oh, I'm going to make so like, it's just because I love them and believe in their, their mission and their business. And, and I have an, a group of people that I'm authentically connected to. So I think that is, that's really, really important. That's why I call myself an accent. I don't really consider myself like, you know, like an influencer. Yeah, no, but sometimes that ends up being the best type of creator or influencer. Cause you're right. It comes from this kind of transparent or authentic standpoint, uh, versus someone who's just out there trying to build their following to build their following. Um, but with that, I want to ask this question kind of for both the influencer side, but also the brand side, when they're trying to engage with

Starting point is 00:17:46 influencers or creators, um, a lot of times there's a decision-making process that you as the creator influencer go through to determine if that partnership is a good fit. So I'm wondering, do you have any sort of, uh, things that you kind of measure against or is it, you know, your values is that you mentioned a woman owned business. Like what are some of the things that you kind of measure against or is it, you know, your values is that you mentioned a woman owned business. Like what are some of the things that you would look for in a brand partner? To me, it's about actually loving the product. And I never want to feel like I've accepted something. And then I have to kind of talk it up because I wanted, you know, I want to be a good partner. If I've accepted a business partnership, then I need to uphold my end of the bargain, but I would much rather it be something

Starting point is 00:18:29 I'm already interested in that I already authentically love because then it doesn't feel put on it. It just roll. And it's just something I'm sharing that I already love. And I think that's one of the best ways to do a partnership. Also, if it's somebody I believe in, and I think that they have a lot to offer, whatever it might be. And of course, as you mentioned values, I'm at a point in my life where I'm not looking to side hustle my life away. You know, I'm, you know, I really do want to focus on my, my primary, you know, responsibility as a communicator. Well, if there are opportunities where I'm already posting for fun on my time off, and if it's some, a cause that I can support or a company I believe

Starting point is 00:19:17 in, and it's a, it's a very, you know, equal and, beneficial partnership. That to me is perfect because it just fits seamlessly with my life. It's not something that I consider work or something I need to try to achieve, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I think too, these product engagements that some influencers do that feel so out of place in their day-to-day or their life. It, it feels more like an ad. So thinking about what are some of the things either that I'm already using in my day-to-day that I can kind of engage with, or if it's a product I can test first, decide, I love it, want to work it into my day-to-day and kind of talk about it organically. I think as a consumer myself, looking at influencers who create content that way, I think it's the most compelling in my opinion.

Starting point is 00:20:07 Agreed. I totally agree. It just, it just needs to feel natural to me. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So on the brand side, I think just the recommendation, if you are wanting to work with a creator or an influencer, you know, if they've never used the product, send it to them first, allow them to try it, to taste it, to experience it for a little bit. Uh, we've had a couple of brands approach us that way before. And I appreciate that so much, uh, just because what if, what if we don't like it? You know, we don't want to be talking about it again from kind of an unnatural standpoint. So I think with this, this brand opportunities, they had reached out and they sent me some, and then it's just grown into this natural. I'm like, Oh, I'll talk about this. opportunities, they had reached out and they sent me some first and then it's just grown into this natural. I'm like, Oh, I'll talk about this. Like, even if I get nothing from it, because I just really love it. Yeah. Yeah. That's what you need. Exactly. Uh, well, I want to,

Starting point is 00:20:57 I want to hear about your writing skills as well. Um, because that's something you work in, whether it's writing in social media, caption, a blog post, what have you. Any tips for refining your writing skills? I feel like no matter where you're at in the marketing world or communications world, having a strong writing skill set is so incredibly important. So what have you done over the years to kind of refine that skill and work to improve it? Write, write, and write some more. It's a lot of writing because it's one of those skills. You're not going to magically just be imbued with incredible writing skills. I read a lot and I write a lot, particularly when I was laid off, I made it a habit. Every morning I'd get up, I'd do my workout, put the baby down to sleep. And I would write, I would write every

Starting point is 00:21:44 single day. I would try to post it every single day. Just hit that publish button. Cause you just got to kind of like get it out. Scary. Uh, I wrote, I used to write my blog articles every single day. I'd get up and write. So it's just a lot of writing, a lot of reading and learning from others. I'm reading a book right now called Everybody Writes by, I just recommended on LinkedIn and oh my gosh, she commented on it. And I fangirled so hard. Best feeling. Best feeling.

Starting point is 00:22:14 But she's an excellent marketing writer and she talks about specific techniques you can use to refine your writing. You know, it's, it's getting everything out at once. It's going back. And what I like to do is reread my copy multiple times through a different lens each time. So I'm going to read it this time as though, you know, I'm this audience member, I'm going to read it this time. So I'm, you know, my executive is reviewing, I'm reviewing it this time to check for spelling errors. Like each time it's like a different on to refine, refine, refine. Cause for me, it's,

Starting point is 00:22:46 you know, it's all about the editing process. Getting it out at first is great, but then it's the refining process. Um, from a leadership perspective, I also try to almost like open up my brain when I'm looking at other people's writing and in kind of giving us insights like, okay, so this phrase is wordy and this verb could be stronger. So why don't we switch this and it makes it more actionable. And like, what kind of walk through in real time to help imbue some of those, you know, those crazy things that fly around my head. So it's not such a secret. Um, when I'm trying to, you know, to lead other communicators or marketers on that writing journey, because to your point, it's not easy and I still would like to get better. I would still like to go and take some

Starting point is 00:23:30 master classes and, but it's just, it's by doing it's by doing and learning from others. Yeah, no, couldn't agree more. And I'm the same way. I'm always looking for ways to improve. I love your editing process though. I've never heard that before, but it's so true. Cause I think a lot of times we read a piece of content and we're, we're using all of those lens at once and that's when we miss things. And so I love how you mentioned kind of scanning it, looking for one thing the first time, and then going through it one more time with fresh eyes, with another perspective, such good advice. I'm going to definitely use that. For me, it's always titles. That was always my one. Oh gosh. Yeah. Oh, it's a dome lens. Like just document. Yeah. Do you use at all, uh, like chat GPT or another AI platform? Have you dabbled

Starting point is 00:24:18 in that at all? We have because I mentioned, I feel like as communicators or marketers, we need to always be experimenting. And if there's communicators or marketers we need to always be experimenting and if there's a new trend we need to be so we need to play in those play boxes to keep our tools sharp so I have been playing in chat GPT I appreciate I actually just took a class actually uh there was a AI class for marketers and content creators. So there's a lot of good that's coming out of that. And if you have a brain fog and you can't think of, you know, I want a great title for this press release, something that is eye-catching, what's going to be really good hook. And that can kind of help from, I've been working in prompt writing. So apparently

Starting point is 00:25:01 prompt writing engineers is a job now. I don't think it's forever, but the art of writing good, effective prompts is something that will generate better output. I'm still at the phase where writing the prompt takes just as long as if I just posted it. So I don't think it's ever going to replace true writing some with if you have a voice and you know a robot can't have an authentic connection to your audience but it will definitely make some of the more tedious things easier I don't know if I'd rely on chat GPT specifically apparently there are a lot more language uh, language models that are coming out that are more specific, maybe just certain companies or they're more chat GPT is kind of

Starting point is 00:25:51 just taking like the whole internet, which is full of garbage as we know. And it's great. It's fun. It's helpful, but I would not rely on it for like really heavy duty writing at this point. Yeah. No, that's a good point. Definitely test a number of the ones out there, play with it, figure out how to use it for you. But yeah, definitely always checking your work, making sure it's accurate. Cause there are situations out there where people have posted things and in the data or the metrics metrics are just not accurate at all. And that's, that can be tricky. So yeah, check your work for sure. Yes. Awesome. Well, okay. I want to switch gears a little bit. Cause I want to talk about Disney and those who have heard maybe even just two episodes of me chatting. They know I love

Starting point is 00:26:38 Disney. I work there. I just, it's, it's deeply rooted in my veins. Um, so I want to ask you about your experience. Uh, but for those who are unaware, can you share what a Disney ambassador is and kind of how you landed that opportunity at the company? Oh, yes. This is always the, that's like that pinnacle. So I was a Walt Disney world ambassador. The Disney ambassador program was actually started by Walt Disney himself. It's one of the last, you know, on media, and also internally. So truly somebody that understands, loves, you know, eats, sleeps, breathes Disney, which I know you

Starting point is 00:27:33 and I both feel, you know, we're just covered in pixie dust. And to me, I've always said, a little bit biased as a communications major, but I always considered it a communications role because you need to be able to write for a specific audience. You need to be able to speak for thousands of people and deliver a message. And at the same time, you need to be able to walk into a room with complete strangers and make one person feel like, like they are the most important person in that room. So it is a lot of communication skills. That is a lot of, because there's obviously a lot of wonderful cast members who are passionate. Um, and it just comes down to being that storyteller and being able to represent a brand that is known worldwide. So it was a lot of fun. It was very

Starting point is 00:28:27 rewarding. And I'm so thankful I had that experience. That's amazing. Well, a part of that, as you've shared before, there's kind of the media trainings involved there, getting you prepared to speak to these different audiences. So I strongly believe that having strong communication skills really, honestly, in any profession is so important, being able to articulate an idea clearly in a team meeting and a client meeting and a number of different settings. So is there any takeaways that you could kind of share from that media training or tips really that you learned that could be helpful in kind of a presentation setting or if you're a guest on a podcast or you're sharing a new idea with your team that you took away from that experience? There's so many things you learn in those two years. And then of course, beyond, as I've continued the evolution of my communications career, I would say that drilling down to your key takeaways or talking points, if you want to, you'd get before marketing media events, we would get, here's the key takeaway of this

Starting point is 00:29:41 event. You know, here are the talking points, most important things to drive home. And, you know, here's the call to action. Where do we send people? What are the resources? And without it sounding clinical, you need to make, you need to tailor this to the audience. If rather you're talking to a jocky or you're on a live morning show, you deliver these talking points differently. And I feel like that approach can help you no matter, even if you're not in marketing or communications to your point, if you have to lead meetings, if you have to send out emails, I feel like a lot of people get a little bit bogged down in

Starting point is 00:30:18 too many extraneous details that people don't know. And obviously as marketers, we know like you got to get people's attention. That first talking point, your strongest takeaway, that's gotta come first. You have to forget everything else you've talked about. The need to remember the one main takeaway. I think thinking,

Starting point is 00:30:40 I sometimes think in PR brain where it's what am I trying to convince people of? Make that the headline. Now, how do I lead them on this journey and keep them engaged the entire way? And one of the resources I use, and I recommend for my teams, it's a book, it's Smart Brevity. It's almost a journalistic approach to how you disseminate communications, mostly in written form. But it's also, again, I think it plays into that PR brain and how you represent and tier your information so you can be as persuasive as possible. So that's just one of the many ways, but I do think learning that media and PR training has translated into how do you deliver a message quickly and potently?

Starting point is 00:31:31 Yeah. Well, on that too, we've talked about storytelling a little bit. So just overall, whether it's within your time as a Disney ambassador or outside of that with the company, how has that experience kind of impacted your storytelling skills in the way that you create content for an audience? You know, I think as to your point a minute ago, clarity and just being as concise as possible is key, but also story is a great way to engage audiences and, and continue to engage them. Um, but yeah, what, what's kind of your takeaway there and kind of what's, how did that experience in your past impact your storytelling skillset? You know, storytelling is so important, you know, for a big company, for brands, obviously they've really tapped into the power of storytelling. Obviously Disney is a master at that, but it's important in every aspect

Starting point is 00:32:17 of what you do. You're, what is the story you're trying to tell and how do you do it in a way that connects with your audience? So going back to when I was laid off, I knew there was a story a lot of people could relate to. And I actually did do a post where I talked about how applying for jobs felt like being on The Bachelor where, you know, we're all wearing our sparkly dresses and fake eyelashes and we're just hoping that somebody notices our potential and picks us, right? Because it feels not great to not get picked over and over again and um you know I try when I share stories take a personal approach

Starting point is 00:32:54 to it like this because you know it's something I can relate to but I think the piece that is more important than that is that you need to turn it to your audience because really the story, it's my story, but it's not about me. It's about all of us and, and, and, you know, really turning on your audience and then be like, this is what you can do. This is what I want you to take from this. You can do great things. You will get picked, you'll get that rose or whatever it might be. I think a lot of times people, brands, they think that they're the hero of the story and they position themselves that way. And you're not going to hold an audience. If you make yourself the hero, you need to, I mean, you might be the Yoda that is there to give your, your story or your wisdom.

Starting point is 00:33:41 But at the end of the day, it's about them and how do you make whatever it is you're selling or pitching or talking about important to them. So one of the things my high school AP history teacher used to say at the end of our essays, if we didn't have something that answered, so what, who cares? You wrote this whole essay. So what, who cares? Why do I care? If you didn't have that, you just fail the essay. So you always had to, at the end, turn it around and be like, okay, so why do I care about all this? I think that's a really important piece of storytelling. If you don't have it, the rest of it just falls apart. Oh my gosh. I love that. Even just as a question to ask yourself, anytime you write any form of content, because I think we do kind of get stuck in this moment of

Starting point is 00:34:24 getting so excited about, um, something we accomplished or something we went through and we, I think it's okay to share those stories sometimes. And, but how can we kind of use that to impact or encourage someone else? And you were also very much, I don't know if you intentionally were doing this, but speaking my story brand language, I absolutely love building a story brand. So good. I was going to recommend that, but I'm like, wow, I've recommended three books already. Oh my gosh. No. And I've written down the other two to read. I love book recommendations. I think our audience does too. So no, the more, the merrier. So thank you for that.

Starting point is 00:35:11 That's amazing. Switching gears again here. Cause I think you have so much experience that could just help listeners today. So I want to ask you about leadership and you've mentioned leadership a couple of times so far, uh, but how, in your opinion, can marketers or communications professionals build up their leadership skills? And do you think this is kind of a juicy question? Do you think leadership is only associated with a title? I will answer the juicy question first, juicy question. And I will say there are different forms of leadership. There's business leadership and there there's people leadership, which I think might, might be what I'm most passionate about. I am. I love leading people. And to me, leading people is not about a title. Leading people is, well, it's about your behaviors. Are you just playing leadership behaviors? And to me, truly, will people follow you? Right. Cause there are

Starting point is 00:36:03 a lot of people that might have leadership titles, but if people aren't inspired by them, if they don't feel supported by them, if they wouldn't choose to follow them, is that really a leader of people? To me, I'm imbued on you by the people you lead. So when I talk about it's about behavior, I remember when I was, again, little Caitlin, first entertainment manager job in Magic Kingdom oh my goodness it was during the the expansion to Fantasyland so yeah being a leader and it was during the largest expansion of Walt Disney World and like the most popular park and the most at the busiest time of year and I you know like leadership experience I hadn't done much operationally, but I knew people and I started, I asked some of my friends in entertainment. So from a leadership perspective,

Starting point is 00:36:54 the leaders that you like, what do you like about them? And then the leaders that you're like, kind of lukewarm on, could you share with me why? And I started getting feedback from people, what made a leader, someone they want to follow. And one of the things that was, you know, listening, you know, being someone that cares and listen, again, coming back to that human centered communication style, leadership style. And I would carry a little book around with me because I didn't have a smartphone at the time. Remember, I was very analog back then.

Starting point is 00:37:23 But I carried this little book with me everywhere I went. And I would ask people, how are you doing? What can I help you with? And if they had issues or concerns or for anything from little to small, I wrote it down in my little notebook so I wouldn't forget. And I'd follow up. And like years later, someone told me like, I remember you walking around with that notebook. And I don't know if you could ever actually solve any of those problems.

Starting point is 00:37:42 But the fact that you took the time to listen and that was to them something they didn't see a lot of. So that was very telling to me. And as a leader, I always want to be somebody that listens and advocates. And I think all of us can do that. I don't think it has to come with a title. I think you can do that from wherever you are. Who can you advocate for? Who can you listen to? What can you do to make better? And how can you set these behavioral examples and live as a leader where people would want to follow you if you were to go somewhere else?

Starting point is 00:38:18 And I think that is what leadership is more than a title. Yeah, absolutely. There's this empathetic element to it that I think a lot of leaders out there don't quite, whether it's intentionally or unintentionally, don't quite have. And it's even just that simple notion, as you mentioned, of just paying attention, asking your team how life is going or knowing a couple little details about their personal lives. And I think that really creates that trust. It creates that, um, you know, kind of impact on your team that keeps them, I think, you know, they're longer to retention wise. So

Starting point is 00:38:55 I think even as you mentioned, if you're not in that leadership title based role yet, uh, kind of embodying some of those traits and start paying attention to what your team is saying or people in other departments too. I think that's another thing is we, we forget the impact of going to get to know the other departments and how all of these functions work within a team or in a business. And so just doing those little things, I think kind of sets you up for success in the future. If you do have that title-based leadership role. It's all about communications. That's what we're talking. It's like being a good communicator and truly getting, you know, asking for feedback and truly caring about the answers people are giving you. So it comes right back to, you know,

Starting point is 00:39:38 the whole communications and, um, you know, to me, marketing communications can, are those side by side. Yeah, absolutely. And remember that your team, you're all working towards the same goals. You're all on the same mission. And I think, yeah. And I think great leaders are able to kind of communicate that to their team and be like, listen, we're all on the same track. Let's be united. Let's get in this thing together and work towards this mission and making each person feel like they're a part of that mission as well. Exactly. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:08 What makes the dream work? Exactly. Exactly. Awesome. Well, Caitlin, this has been so wonderful. I could talk to you forever. So we'll definitely have to check back in with you and have you back on the show and just dive into some of these more, these topics a little bit more.

Starting point is 00:40:24 But we'd love to ask this question on the show as we close out some of these more, these topics a little bit more. Uh, but we'd love to ask this question on the show as we close out here, but what do you know now that you wish you knew early on in your career? This one's always a hard one because gosh, you learn so much as you go. I think what I would say is that there's no such thing as a dream job. And I know it's funny, somebody who's worked so many dream jobs, but to me, this is not a negative statement. This is almost like an opportunity to release yourself from this expectation that your job has to give you all of your joy or all of your satisfaction and, and kind of evaluate how, how do you work your job and your life and have them in harmony and, and understand that sometimes, you know, some things might be up and

Starting point is 00:41:15 some things might be down, but it's, it's never going to be perfect. And sometimes your job might be purely passion. You don't have to worry about if, you know, if it's making you tons of money or if you're working crazy hours, because right now in this moment in your life, you're just all in on the job. Sometimes later might be like, I need a job that's more about balance. And maybe it's not as passion driven as I would want it to be, but it gives me what I need for my family. And I think it's kind of understanding the ebbs and flows of what you need from your job, what you can give and where you are in your life and finding satisfaction in that and being content in that. As a constant dream job chaser,

Starting point is 00:41:58 I've always had a hard time sometimes like just settling in and being, and being okay with just doing a great job and having it be, having it. So I wrote an article about it because I feel like it's just, maybe it's our generation. We feel this constant aspirational need to, to do so much, put so much pressure on ourselves. I see dust and magic and rainbows all the time. And like some wrong and, um, it's okay to give yourself the grace and gosh, give your, your company the grace as well, that it doesn't have to be pixie dust and rainbows all the time. And that's, you can still thrive and you can still gain a lot and it can still be a really great, mutually beneficial, you know, arrangement. I love that. That's so good. I'm going to have to link that article

Starting point is 00:42:45 down in the show notes. Cause I'm excited to personally read that. And this is a topic that I think we've had a lot of conversations about on the show, but this idea of there are seasons you go through where, as you mentioned, sometimes a lot of your energy is going to be poured into work more than others, whether it's because of a project, a launch, whatever you're working on. And so being able to kind of be flexible during those seasons, communicate with your family, your friends. Uh, so good. I love that. Yeah. So good. Thank you for that. I have no words. I'm at a loss. Um, well, Caitlin, can you share with us where we can stay in touch with you? You mentioned LinkedIn, a number of different platforms you're present on, but where can we connect with you? And we'll make sure to have them in the show notes as well.

Starting point is 00:43:33 LinkedIn is the best place. I love connecting with other professionals. I'm happy to answer questions and I'm just happy to serve as a resource. So I definitely would love to see you all on LinkedIn. Amazing. We'll go follow Caitlin on LinkedIn, connect with her there. She does share some amazing resources on there. I've enjoyed following you over the past few months, but Caitlin, thank you again for joining us and passing on all of your knowledge on all these amazing topics. And we're super excited to continue connecting with you and just following your journey in the future. Thank you all so much. And it's been a pleasure. That's it for this week's episode. Thanks so much again for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode,

Starting point is 00:44:16 please remember to subscribe, rate, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. For more from Marketing Happy Hour, head on over to our website, marketinghappyhr.com or follow us on Instagram at marketinghappyhr. We'll see you next week.

Marketing Happy Hour - Refining Your Communications Skills | Communications Expert Caitlin Busscher (prev. The Walt Disney Company)

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