Marketing Happy Hour - The "Appeal to Everyone" Trap: Why Segmented Ads Win the Super Bowl | Nataly Kelly of Zappi

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to Marketing Happy Hour, a weekly podcast helping marketing professionals and entrepreneurs build better strategies and hit career goals. I'm Cassie and I'm Allie. We're marketers and your host through these unfiltered convos with your peers and experts in the space. Let's dive in. Grab your favorite drink and let's get to this week's episode. We are very excited to be joined by past Marketing Happy Hour guest, Natalie Kelly, CMO of Zappy. We're going to talk all things, Super Bowl, commercials, et cetera, very stoked to welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for having me back. Of course. Well, before we dive in, of course, we just need to ask you again, as we did last time, Natalie, what's been in your glass lately?

Starting point is 00:00:45 So dry January was zero alcohol. But lately I'm turning back to sparkling because I'm all about celebration right now for the Super Bowl heading into it. So bubbles and, yeah, champagne is kind of my game right now. Allie and I will be getting together on Sunday for the Super Bowl as well. And I'm sure we'll have some form of bubbles with us. Absolutely. Watch the goals in the game and everything. So right there with you.

Starting point is 00:01:11 But Natalie, we'll go ahead and link the previous episode that you were part of below, just in case someone wants to go back and listen to that episode. But give us a little refresher and share if you don't mind just a little bit about yourself and what you do at Zappi. Sure. So I'm Chief Marketing Officer at Zappi. We are a Consumer Insights platform. So we help brands win with consumers, including a lot of Super Bowl advertisers. So we have a lot of large consumer brands in consumer products, consumer tech, and consumer

Starting point is 00:01:40 services. So all three categories. And a lot of those advertisers that you see on game night for the Super Bowl are customers of ours and use Zappi to test their ads. That's so interesting. And I'm just excited to dive in, particularly on the Super Bowl, given again, as we're recording this episode, the Super Bowl is happening this Sunday, which is super exciting.

Starting point is 00:02:00 And I think, you know, Super Bowl ads are often judged on their entertainment value, particularly, but your data at ZAPI really looks at that sales impact. And so what is the difference there and how do you explain that to clients? And why does it matter more than ever right now? Great question, Allie. So sales impact is something that we look at, and it's kind of a roll-up of many different elements of when we test with consumers, all the different questions that we ask. And so we do ask about the entertainment value.

Starting point is 00:02:27 We do ask about the emotional impact and emotional resonance. We also ask about brand recall and many other things to determine sales impact. But what makes that score really unique compared to some simple rankings of like, you know, there's all these different rankings of ads out there. And they test with the general population. What we do for sales impact score is look at the likelihood of purchasing the product to test with those consumers who might buy the product. So that enables us to measure how is it performing with the people who are going to buy or more likely to buy than a segment that maybe doesn't need that product or doesn't, you know, maybe they have an allergy or a reason that they won't buy it. So it's a much more relevant score in terms of purchase impact and purchase likelihood. So that's kind of a big difference in our Amplify system, how we test.

Starting point is 00:03:19 One specific ad that I want to dive into here is the Budweiser ad. So in testing that, younger audiences showed strong emotional response, but weaker brand recall. So meanwhile, older folks are getting it right away. Can you speak to what this example illustrates in terms of balancing that reach with older and younger audiences and how to maybe do both? Or how are you just overall defining those goals depending on what the ad objective is? Yes, that's a great question, Cassie. there are a lot of marketers who run into this exact challenge, whether it's male, female, older, younger, or maybe this demographic, that segment, you know, looking at those different

Starting point is 00:04:02 cuts of the data. So to answer your question about that Budweiser ad, which is a beautiful ad, I don't know if you all had a chance to see it, but it's got so many great things in it, you know, baby Eagle, baby Clydesdale, you know, it's got a lot of Americana references. What's interesting about this, and to answer your question directly, Cassie, is kind of like, why does it perform this way with younger versus older population, members of the population? And we find this with a lot of these legacy brands that they're simply more established in older generations' minds. And so the recall happens faster and they have more exposure over time to the same brand. So whereas for younger generations, it's simply a newer brand in their lifespan. They might have grown up with it, but still, there's not as many years of memory structure and repeatability and impressions happening.

Starting point is 00:04:55 So that's kind of something we see, not just with that ad, but with most Super Bowl ads across younger and older. Like brand recall is just stronger with the older generations because they've had more exposures to the brand. It's not that way, however, with some of the newer brands. So some of the newer brands might perform better and have greater brand recall with younger generations. So it really depends on which brand it is and how long they've been around. And do you feel like that has a lot to do with sort of how the brand is actually forming the ad and who they're targeting on the onset? Is that kind of how you're helping out in terms of identifying that target segment and making sure that it resonates with that audience? Yes. So I think a lot of it has to do with all the history of advertising they've had and all the different channels they're in, which channels.

Starting point is 00:05:42 Because some channels perform better with different generations, obviously. So it's all about that. It's like where is that brand showing up to begin with? But when they're testing with us, they actually decide which channel they're testing on. So are they testing on Instagram? Are they testing on YouTube? Are they testing for just television advertising in general? And also they can choose based on the audience what parameters they want so that they can

Starting point is 00:06:09 cut the data by parameter. And that will even determine their sample size. Like how many people do you want to test with? Well, it can depend on how many cuts of the data you want to look at. So we, when we configure the testing for a new ad, we ask all those questions, you know, to understand their strategy. So that, and believe it or not, the strategy is very different for each brand and what they want to accomplish with Super Bowl's ads. So a lot of people think, well, let's compare this ad to that ad. You really can't because everyone's goal is slightly different.

Starting point is 00:06:40 The goal is different. And then I also think audiences are different as they're coming to the table year. after a year in terms of the different segments that they're falling into. Maybe they're in a new niche or something like that, right? I think what's interesting for me, I'm particularly fascinated by this is that, you know, women make up nearly half of the NFL audience, but they only speak in about a third of ads for the Super Bowl. Given that women really influence and or control, like 85% of household purchase decisions, what are some brands leaving on the table when it comes to the female audience. Well, they may be leaving almost half of the audience in their wallet on the table or more,

Starting point is 00:07:18 as you said, 85% of spending decisions, household spending decisions are being made by women. So what's interesting is as the NFL audience has continued to become more female dominant, not dominant yet, but still, you know, 48% is almost half and half now. The advertisers haven't necessarily caught up. So there is room for advertisers to really appeal to women more than they are, because what we also find is the ads that perform well with women tend to perform well with the general population. But the ads that perform well with men often don't perform well with the general population. So it's interesting. A lot of the ads that perform well with women tend to be these ones that have more of a storytelling aspect or a strong narrative or an emotional impact,

Starting point is 00:08:06 like that, you know, seeing the baby eagle and seeing the baby Clydesdale, we all love it. But the men love it too. That's what's interesting is those types of ads perform well in the general population, whereas the ones with men tend to have more spectacle and humor, humor that doesn't always land well with everyone. And so it's interesting to see how some of those ads really do perform well with men. But if your products mostly purchased by men, then maybe that's what you want. So. Right. And I think. I think it just, it goes back to this conversation around targeting, right? So the data shows that the ads typically perform best when they clearly speak to that defined

Starting point is 00:08:45 target segment. And I think what I'm curious to hear from you is, is why are brands trying to appeal to everyone and why that usually fails? I think having that, I'm curious to know kind of how you help define that target segment for them so that they're able to get the most out of this ad, right? We know they cost a lot of money to kind of purchase that ad. spot for the Super Bowl. So curious to hear your thoughts on that. Definitely. So what's interesting is you never really know until you talk to the advertiser what their strategy is. You know, are they really

Starting point is 00:09:17 trying to increase brand awareness overall? If so, maybe it is a good idea to test across the general population. Are they trying to drive growth in a segment like the U.S. Latino population or, you know, millennials or, you know, some segment that's growing where they see impact or potential sales volume, increasing and taking market share away from a competitor. So, you know, there are some brands that decide to just do an awareness ad. Like I, you know, remember last year, Timo, you know, they, it was just basically they repeated the same ad multiple times. I was just saying their name. And I was like, well, this is an interesting strategy. I guess they just want awareness in the general population because there's literally a differentiation here. But then there are others that you can

Starting point is 00:10:02 tell. Like the Hellman's ad last year had, it was when Harry met Sally, they had Billy Crystal, Meg Ryan, but they also had Sidney Sweeney because they were trying to appeal to multiple generations with people who were maybe a fresh character who wasn't part of the original movie, but yet they were trying to make themselves relevant for multiple generations at a time. Sometimes that's a good strategy. Sometimes that can backfire. And what's interesting is the advertisers that tend to be newer to the Super Bowl tend to learn as they go about this. And the other thing to consider is an ad will cost $8 million for that one ad spot on the night. But it can be a poor use of budget if you're not thinking about what else

Starting point is 00:10:47 are you doing in the lead-up to that? What else are you doing after? How are you connecting that to the overall marketing strategy? So that's something that our customers are very intentional about is it's not just about that one ad on the night. It's about creating a better advertising program. Yeah. That's actually really interesting point to Natalie. I'm curious and I think a lot of brands, even that can't necessarily afford a Super Bowl ad, can learn a lot from this of just extending the campaign experience across different channels. What are some examples that you've seen done really well on that front, whether it's a social integration, out of home, et cetera? I'm just curious for you to speak to that kind of all-encompassing strategy too. Sure, there are so many and, you know, we've noticed that

Starting point is 00:11:27 some Super Bowl advertisers are taking out regional ad spots. Last year when we tested, we had most of the advertisers known to us before the ads ran on the night. But there were some surprises because we heard that different brands were developing a Super Bowl ad and we were excited for it. But then we were checking with each other. Oh, did you guys see that one on the West Coast? Oh, I'm in Boston. I only saw this one. Oh, this must be a regional ad.

Starting point is 00:11:49 And we learned as we went through the night, which brands were doing national ads versus regional ads. because, you know, obviously the price is different for each market versus a national ad. There's that, but then there are a lot of, like, online things. You know, we noticed, like, with Doritos last year, even on X, there were some, you know, Doritos flying and some, you know, custom emoji that was happening. You know, another simple example when you think about marketing opportunities around the Super Bowl is, you know, go into any grocery store and you'll see products. and the packaging that the marketing is being done and the advertising is being done on the pack

Starting point is 00:12:29 for the product. But it's, you know, there's like a Kindergueno Super Bowl edition. There's, you know, often Bubweiser will have like a custom pack for Super Bowl because they know these are the moments when people are shopping for specifically this event, this cultural celebration and this, you know, wonderful experience that we have where we host people and we get together with family and friends. So they're thinking about. it in a 360 kind of way. You know, it's like, how do I reach people with advertising, out of home,

Starting point is 00:13:01 packaging, in store, you know, all throughout the game, pregame, post game, even down to the local teams that people are supporting up until, because we know, nobody knows until the very last minute who's going. So a lot of these brands will bet on their local home team or near where they have, you know, some sort of local, you know, football player celebrity in your market. market who you can, you know, build and attach to the brand. Last year at Super Bowl, I was with, I was at an event and the CEO of Build a Bear Workshop came. And she was talking about how they were obviously a local team in Kansas City Chiefs, but then when Taylor Swift was involved, then all the, you know, just, she's like, we were lucky. Like, we've supported them for all this time.

Starting point is 00:13:49 And then now it's like the peak hype moment and we happen to be attached. So some of these brands have to make long-term bets on football advertising, not just Super Bowl advertising, to get the bang for their buck over many years. Oh, that's so interesting. And then the other thing I'm just curious in general, what your thoughts are on this repeatability around just showing up in all these different places. You know, there's stats out there, which Natalie, you may have some more specific details on this about how many times someone has to see a brand until they decide to make some sort of action. So I'm even just curious on that front why it is important to show up in all these different places. For one, not only when it comes to the Super Bowl, but even any brand listening today, just thinking about how you can kind of expand the life of your campaign and why that repeatability is so important.

Starting point is 00:14:37 Yes, it's about it's about repeatability, but it's also about connecting that message through many different touch points. And I think all of us as marketers think about that all the time, no matter what campaign we're working on. It's like, okay, we've done it once. That campaign is shipped. How do we show up and do it again and again? And where else? And how do we tie these pieces together so that we have, you know, I'm a B2B tech marketer. I'm thinking, okay, how do I tie the online to the offline can, you know, all the time?

Starting point is 00:15:07 I'm always thinking about that. Something my customers are thinking about too. And B2C, you know, mostly consumer packaged goods is where we have a, and quick service restaurants is where we have the most customers at Zappy. you know, they're thinking about that all the time. Like from a QSR, you know, quick service restaurant perspective, like how do you tie the seasonal menu offering

Starting point is 00:15:28 to the mobile app loyalty experience? You know, and how do you, you know, so you're trying to tie what they see in store to what they see online and what they see on their mobile device. You know, making sure that all those touchpoints are repeatable and aligned and connected is really what delivering a great customer experience

Starting point is 00:15:48 is all about. So it goes beyond marketing and into customer experience, in my opinion. Absolutely. And as we close out this conversation to Natalie, I'm just curious, you know, if you were to pull one or two things just from, as you are discovering these data and insights from these ads that you have seen and collaborated with these brands on, what are some kind of key factors or just attributes to some of these really compelling advertisements that you've seen, whether it's storytelling or emotion like you mentioned. I'm just curious if there's any. stand-out tactics that, again, a brand listening could maybe try to apply in some of their campaigns that they're building. Yes, because I think that the things that work for the Super

Starting point is 00:16:27 Bowl often work generally in advertising, so it's something all of us can learn from. You know, one big lesson is celebrities don't always work. So people are all about the celebrities, but that doesn't necessarily mean that anybody will remember your brand. They might remember the celebrity, and I'm sure this has happened to both of you. We remember certain ads and we're like, oh, yeah, what brand was that again? That's the classic. trap that I think a lot of advertisers fall into. They fall in love with the idea of working with a celebrity because, oh, it's going to make us so popular and so memorable, but actually it can backfire. So one of the key things to remember is there always has to be that call to

Starting point is 00:17:04 action, that, you know, that drive to move somebody to do something, not just to stay there of like, oh, wasn't that fun? Or didn't that make me laugh? Or, oh, wasn't that a sweet ad? It's like, you have to remember to put your logo, there and to show the product and to make them understand what you're all about. Otherwise, you might have wasted $8 million or whatever you're spending on an ad. I think it's the same challenge that we have any time we're building anything for a marketing campaign, whether it's advertising or not, is like, how do we take them to that next step? How do we nudge them toward a purchase? How do we continue to push them along on the journey? That is really the heart of

Starting point is 00:17:45 developing good advertising and developing good marketing. Yeah. Well, we are very excited just to watch all of these commercials during the big game and also just hear more of your insights. You do a great job on LinkedIn of just sharing some of your findings and things that you're working on. But speaking of that, we would love to, of course, stay in touch with you and also all things Zappi. So if you don't mind, share with us a little bit how we can stay in touch with you in the brand. Sure. So Zappi drops a big. Super Bowl report with data and details on all of the ads. So that is an annual report, but it's actually evergreen. I think it's valuable even beyond the Super Bowl. But if you are interested in learning,

Starting point is 00:18:28 you can get that report. We can share a link. It's a great report that dives into a lot of the details that we've discussed with a lot more granularity. So if you want to learn from the best of the best, that is a great report. Also on our LinkedIn, on the Zappi LinkedIn page, we share a lot of data, we actually share the videos of the ads in many cases. That's another thing that is a resource for anyone who's interested and, of course, our website and our blog. Amazing. Well, Allie and I plan to do kind of a post Super Bowl debrief on some of these ads. We'll definitely be referencing your content, including that report. And we'll have that linked below in the show notes as well. But Natalie, thank you, as always, for being here with us and just sharing all things Super Bowl and

Starting point is 00:19:09 all things data. It's always such an insightful conversation. So thanks for being here. Oh, thanks, Cassie. Thanks, thanks, Alice. Lovely. Lovely to be here. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Marketing Happy Hour. If you enjoyed it, make sure you're subscribed to the show and sign up for a weekly newsletter with insights and marketing resources. We also invite you to check out the MHHH collective, our community for marketers looking to connect, grow, and learn together. Check out the links in the show notes.

Starting point is 00:19:35 We'll see you next time.

Marketing Happy Hour - The "Appeal to Everyone" Trap: Why Segmented Ads Win the Super Bowl | Nataly Kelly of Zappi

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