Marketing Happy Hour - The Future of Events, Post-Pandemic | Cayley Smith of Digiday

Episode Date: July 15, 2021

The pandemic has changed the way events are hosted. The last year and a half, businesses have been forced to pivot their efforts to virtual events and new ways of hosting in-person gatherings. This week, we’re chatting with Digiday Media’s Event Programming Manager, Cayley Plotkin, to hear how her brands have navigated the recent changes and what predictions she has for the future of events. BONUS: Learn what component your events need to be successful. ----- Other episodes you'll enjoy if you enjoyed Cayley's episode: Career Advice That's Out of This World | Sylvester Placid of NASA Empathy in the Workplace + Humanizing Your Brand | Ally Golden of Upwork Gen Z Work Habits: Balancing a Tech 9-5 and Full-Time Content Creation | Angelica Song of Google ____ Say hi! DM us on Instagram and share your favorite moments from this episode - we can't wait to hear from you!  Please also consider rating the show and leaving a review, as that helps us tremendously as we move forward in this Marketing Happy Hour journey and create more content for all of you. NEW: Check out our website! NEW: Join our email list! Follow Cayley on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cayleyasmith/ Connect with Cayley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cayleyasmith/ Follow MHH on Instagram: https://instagram.com/marketinghappyhr Follow MHH on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/marketing-happy-hour/ Subscribe to our LinkedIn newsletter, Marketing Happy Hour Weekly: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/marketing-happy-hour-weekly-6950530577867427840/ Join our Marketing Happy Hour Insiders LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/9238088/

Welcome, everyone, to the Marketing Happy Hour podcast, where you'll hear career-defining advice, powerful social media strategies, unique creative tips, groundbreaking influencer marketing tactics, and more from marketing experts that represent some of the world's leading brands. Go ahead, grab a drink, and join us for this week's episode. Social media today recently shared that Clubhouse has signed a deal with TED to expand its content pool. As explained by Clubhouse, beginning Monday, July 12th, TED will host a series of rooms

via their official Clubhouse Club. They will commence the programming with Thank Your Ass Off, a weekly room hosted by New York Times bestselling author and popular TED speaker A.J. Jacobs and invites notable guests and the Clubhouse community to come together to thank the unsung heroes of our lives. Additional rooms for the summer and beyond will be announced in the weeks ahead. This is interesting. I think it's definitely timely for them. We've seen all these other platforms like Spotify and Twitter and LinkedIn create similar, you know, aspects to clubhouse. And I think it's just like clubhouses need to step it up because you know, they only have really one feature on their platform. It's it's the live rooms like you can't record anything, you can't chat, you can't share like updates. So I think,

you know, good for them for trying to do something different and pull in some sort of added value to the platform, because I think they definitely need it. Yeah, it's definitely creative. I think with partnerships like this, and the popular like, New York, University Girls roasting tech guys, All of those unique partnerships are really what's going to set them apart from those other platforms. You're correct. Yeah, for sure. And they've brought in celebrities occasionally. So I'm curious to see if they're going to start doing something with that, like live meet and greet rooms or something like that.

They definitely have opportunities. I know I don't think they really want to become like a regular social media app, but I think they are going to have to pivot in the way they offer, you know, the live voice features. So it's going to be interesting to see what happens. Totally, totally. This week, we're chatting with Kaylee Plotkin, the event programming manager for Digiday, which is an online trade magazine for digital media and marketing, the home of popular verticals Glossy and Modern Retail.

She's going to share with us how her strategies have pivoted in the last year and where she believes the future of event planning is headed. Listen in. Hey, Kaylee, how are you doing? I'm great. How are you doing pretty well? Okay, so we have to ask all of our guests this, but it is marketing happy hour after all. So what is in your glass tonight? Unfortunately, I'm pretty boring. I just have water with ice. But I have been feeling the like reality of like like the heat here in New York.

So water like just tastes so good lately. Yes, that is awesome. I get that. We totally understand coming from Florida. So no shame there. Absolutely. Awesome. So we kind of know, you know, your title and stuff like that.

But tell us a little bit more about your role pre COVID. And then how did that kind of shift over time with COVID? And what did events look like for your team? Yeah, so pre COVID, we were booking about 40 in person events a year. Most of them were like in Miami, or they were in Palm Springs or New York York and we varied the formats. So we would do one day forums, three day summits, which were usually destination events. Like I said, in Miami or in Palm Springs. And then we do like small intimate dinners, usually like once a month, every few months for different like subject areas. So we do like a woman in publishing dinner or like a direct to consumer leaders dinner, um, just to kind of

sit down with all the thought leaders in the space, um, and do that on a regular basis as well. And those were fun. Um, usually for our forums and our summits, we had about 150 to 200 plus people all in the room. Um, we had to book about 15 to 16 speakers for each event, which thankfully we don't do anymore. It's a lot more manageable. And we mix it up a lot too at our events, like between keynote sessions with slides, fireside chats, a mix of the two for different speakers. And our team, the team that I'm on event programming was a very much on editorial and we were very closely linked with our editorial team, which also has changed post COVID or I guess during COVID. So definitely different now,

obviously for the past year and a half, we haven't done any in-person events, but we just got back to our first one in about mid-June, and we did one of those small intimate dinners, and we have another one coming up next week, so we're getting back in the swing of it. So how has the event planning process changed since the pandemic? You told us a little bit that it looks a little different, but what kind of shifts did you have to make and how are you kind of getting over all of the changes now moving forward? Yeah, I mean, at least for virtual events, the lead time is a lot quicker. It's a lot easier just to kind of add them to the calendar, which obviously has its pros and cons. But as far as like lead time goes for booking speakers, which is, you know, the

biggest task that our team has to do. When we were doing in-person events, we'd need speakers booked at least eight to 12 weeks out. Obviously there was flights involved, hotel room bookings. Now we prefer to have people booked eight to four weeks out. But there's been times where we've been two weeks from an event, and we might be missing a speaker or two. And as a team, we still feel okay with that, because we know that it's much more accessible for a speaker to be like, Oh, yeah, I can join for like an hour, and just do a quick fireside chat. So we don't obviously love having things done at the last minute, We try not to, but we just feel like we can do more in less time now. And I feel like overall too, what our audience has been interested in has shifted.

Like before the, before COVID, we would do a lot of presentations with slides and people felt like, okay, I want to leave with slides. I want to leave with screenshots. I want to leave with like this person's email and that person's email. And now people are like much more interested in like case studies. So how X company did this, they're really interested in that. Um, among like other formats that we've been doing and less interested in, you know, not so much the tangible stuff, but they just the what they see as tangible has changed before it was like being able to take a screenshot of a slide. Now it's like, OK, I can leave with like an anecdote from this case study I heard at the summit.

We also learned that it's really easy to lose track of things and fight off more than we can chew just because with virtual events it's great because we can experiment so easily but also it's very easy just to add things to the calendar and not realize the lead time that goes into these things which we'll talk about later I'm sure like what an event looks like from start to finish also during the pandemic our team as event programming we left the editorial team and we moved right into the middle of the company. Um, and we just report right into our CEO now. So if anything, I feel like it makes us more involved with editorial because we really

need to try harder to get time with all of our editorial staff to stay on top of trends, um, stay on top of, you know, what people want to hear in each industry that we report on. But although so although we're not on the editorial team, we're still like deeply, deeply involved with the editorial side of everything and making sure that like our onstage content matches the content that's going online and being recorded on podcasts or written for articles and stuff. Yeah, that's super interesting how the relationship changed throughout COVID and how you're more involved now. That's super cool. Yeah. And I think it's great that you guys are kind of like you said, you're working closely with the editorial team. So it kind of makes

everything streamlined, I'm sure because you guys are all on the same page essentially so yeah definitely we have like when we start an event well the first thing that we do is we meet with editorial to be like what are the trends in the space obviously I'm working personally I'm working on events in so many different spaces for example right now I'm working on a brand event for CMOs, beauty event, retail event, high fashion, luxury event, and then an event about gaming. So I have to touch on different industries. And I can't remember everything as much as I would love to know every single key player in every single industry we report on, it's impossible. So it's just really important to keep updated with editorial. And sometimes

even if we don't have an event coming up, we'll still try and be like, hey, let's just get time on the calendar and like talk about what's going on so that we can, you know, keep on everything and at least keep a lookout for those those people that we're going to want in the future. Yeah, definitely. And I know Erica and I are pretty familiar with, you know, the brands that you work with and living in New York for a while, I saw your guys' events on the calendar and was like dying to go to mostly all of them. They were amazing. But for some people that don't know, and this is kind of goes into my next question, a little bit of a twofold question I have for you, but can you give us some

examples of past successful events that you guys have hosted? And then also just give us some examples of past successful events that you guys have hosted. And then also just give us some insight on what do you feel like are some keys to successful events now and pre COVID? And what do you just feel engages the attendees the best? Yeah, well, like I said, I feel like the what engages them the most is can something what being able to feel like they walked away with something tangible whether that's like someone's email that they've been meaning to connect with um you know a screenshot of a slide with like data on it a case study of some sort um so that that i feel like is what engages them the best um since going virtual we've incorporated these virtual working groups that we found to be really

successful. In person, we used to do these like challenge boards. And everyone would talk about challenges and solutions. It's a lot harder to do it on Zoom, because when you're in a room with people, you can make eye contact with them and encourage them to respond to a prompt. But it's a lot harder when you know, people have their cameras off. But we do we kind of market them in a way where it was like, if you're coming to the working group, you're coming to participate. And we've had really, really great conversations there,

people working through solutions, taking notes, working through issues that they're having and learning from others, from whether that be from like bigger brands or smaller brands. As far as a really successful virtual event we've done recently, I would have to say it was our gaming advertising forum. It's something that we were always like lightly reporting on. But we didn't have like a ton of reporters in the space. We had like one or two

that, you know, kind of knew the gaming players. We we it was our first time doing a gaming event we're like let's just do a one day virtual forum open registration free for whoever um and and we'll see what happens and like sold out of all of our sponsorship uh inventory immediately i had you know companies like bmw who usually you you know, they weren't a company that I had connected with before, you know, asking, we really want to participate in this. Can we get involved? And overall, we saw about 700 people tune in for all three hours of the event. And we had about, oh, yeah, about 675 tuned in for all three hours.

And we had about 700 people registered. So it was just great ratios all around. I think it just spoke to like, I think gaming is in a spot right now too, where people are, there's like some growing pains. People want to learn more about it. It's really hot. Um, so it was good timing, good execution and a really, really, really great industry players who like really are just game to participate and like so enthusiastic about what they talk about.

That is so awesome. Yeah, gaming is such a, an industry I'm so unfamiliar with, I would love to learn more, I should have tuned into that. Well, we have another one coming up in mid August. So I have to send you the details. So for that one right now, we have Roblox will be speaking the WWE. Who else? There's a few others. But I know like Roblox was the one that we were super, super excited about. They're doing a lot of interesting stuff. So their vice president of brand partnerships is going to come talk about just some of the growing pains around gaming. So it's gonna be really good. That is awesome. We'll have to get that information and put it out on, kind of what does the planning and strategy process look like for your team? So that entire process from the ideation to the execution of the event.

And then you did mention that it's hard to remember all of the things that are going on at once. So maybe a little bit about how you manage that, if there's any tools that you use, et cetera. Yeah. So start to finish. Basically, first things first is we now have a director of content on our team, my manager, Hope, who is amazing. And she oversees kind of our overall strategy now, which gives me and the coordinator on our team, Blake, time to actually program the events. So Hope is spending less time programming and more time working on the strategy, which has just become even more important now that we have, we had to adapt and just come up with new ways to do things. So like first things first, we have a

meeting with editorial and then like our business and sales team just to go over, OK, what are the themes here? How much and how much inventory are we going to have? So the themes and trends come from editorial and then a lot of times sales will use that and pass it along to their clients. as a major theme coming up at the event, they can, you know, our sales team can go to like Attentive and say, hey guys, this would be a great one event for you guys to, you know, come sponsor. And Attentive does participate in a lot of our events and, you know, they always bring such great content about SMS. I love hearing about it

and we do text updates for our events too. But anyways, then we usually start with some outreach. What's been great about doing virtual events is that generally I only need to send out the amount of outreach for the amount of speakers that I need. So if I need 10 speakers, I only need to send out 10 invites usually. And then we have time, you know, if two people can't make it, we have time to go back through and comb through, okay, who can we reach out to now that wasn't on the list the first time. So then once everyone's confirmed,

we do all the fun stuff, putting headshots up on the site. We create the agenda. We make sure marketing and everything are updating. You know, if we add a really important speaker to the site, we did a beauty forum in may and everyone kept asking when is addison ray going to be on the site because we need to put her in the email it's so like addison ray addison ray um so we keep you know marketing upstate through all that and also like our just regular events team who's now they work on more of the in-person stuff so now with

hotels and such we work with them on a lot of the booking aspects of it. And then once people are confirmed, we connect them with their moderators. Now that we're virtual, almost everyone is doing fireside chats over slides. I just, we found that the audience is paying more attention, not paying as much attention to slides as they are to fireside chats because they do want to listen to it like a podcast.

And then after we connect everyone with their moderators, are to fireside chats because they do want to listen to it like a podcast um and then after we connect everyone with their moderators we do also all of like the fun production stuff like creating the run of show connecting with the production team and client services to make sure all of our clients are set and know what they're doing we send out logistics email to everyone like one big body of text just with with every, all the information they need to know. And then day of, we are doing what I like to call stage management. So we have a backstage, which is basically just a Google Hangout between someone on the event programming team and our producer. And we are back there and just like calling the shots all day. You know, whether it's, okay, speaker number one, are they here?

Okay, great. They're here. Their camera's off though. All right. I'll chat them and tell them to turn it on. And then, or if someone's not there, then that's me making calls to add five minutes to the current session, just keeping the event running as smoothly as possible. And, you know, I think we're pretty good at it.

There's been times where it's like a crazy day with people, you know, coming late or having technical difficulties. And if you're watching it from the audience perspective, you would never know that any of that's going on. So that's what our job is. It's like as crazy as it gets backstage, make it look to the audience

that nothing ever happened um and as far as keeping up to date on everything editorially uh i mean obviously i read glossy digiday and modern retail to keep up with everything listen to our podcasts um but also just keeping you we honestly, we have a lot of Slack channels internally that are really helpful for me because it's especially helped me discern like what makes a good story and what maybe doesn't and what people are interested in as far as like getting to the bottom of things on. So a lot of our internal Slack channels, we have like a retail channel, publishing channel, our glossy editorial channel have all been really helpful when I can see like our editors and reporters, you know, asking questions. And I'm

like, Oh, that is interesting. Okay. So but most importantly, obviously, glossy modern retail and digital day reading all of those sites every morning and subscribing to all of our newsletters. That's amazing. I know, like, if I had access constantly to that many ideas and stuff, my brain would be like exploding with ideas. Do you guys ever this kind of a sidebar question, but yeah, do you guys ever just kind of like immediately come up with an idea for an event like off the rip? Or is everything kind of well thought out and brainstorm sessions? Or are you guys constantly just like coming up with new ideas? Well, honestly, a lot of our events are like legacy ones that we

kind of do every year. Like we really, we have our set like tentpole events. So we do our publishing summit twice a year, modern retail summit twice a year. But now, honestly, a lot of the times we'll kind of just like be like, hey, there's a lot of interest in another modern retail event. Do you think we could just like throw a forum on the calendar for August and like, let's discuss maybe some like subtopic that we can make this about. So it's not, you know, there's a very clear purpose to doing this. So it's nice now that we have the ability to experiment and we're thinking about, and we usually experiment a lot too, with the idea of like sub theming our events.

So like we've done it for glossy a lot where like, we'll do a glossy event about the conscious consumer and the next summit or the next forum is all about Gen Z. And so we experiment a lot through the sub theming and we kind of keep those tentpole events around, but we do have the opportunity to be like, Hey, there's a lot of interest in this. Let's add it to the calendar. Or can we even add it to the calendar? And I think we're going to keep that aspect, even when we do bring all of our tentpole events back in person, that there will be an aspect of our events business that are like, hey, you know, we, for example, like we haven't done an event, we want to do an event like about the third party cookie. And we know that'll be really niche. So let's just do it virtually. And it'll be a one day thing. And it'll be really easy for our team to just do five speakers. Here's the sponsorship inventory.

So we are happy about that. We're still going to have that option to experiment virtually while keeping like the really important temple stuff in person. That's awesome. And so as far as technologies go, you've talked about that a little bit, but are there certain new technologies or tactics that you guys are currently working towards using or plan to use in the future yeah so for for our virtual events um we use vimeo studio um which we're very excited about i personally don't touch much of vimeo studio we have a producer extraordinaire named yuri

who is like i don't know how he does it it's a lot of moving parts a lot of animations but it really like when we were doing stuff in person it was our team making slides for everything at the event whether that was on like the TVs in the lobby and then in addition to that the slides that would play actually during the event so it was a real step up to have like a news broadcast looking situation. If you go on our site, I'm sure there's like tons of event content where you can see an example. So Vimeo Studio gave us a real leg up. I wish I knew how to use it, but I don't know if I could deal with the pressure because of this pressure to like call

switches and change cameras and all that stuff. So Vimeo studio has been like a huge blessing for us because it just, it gave like an edge at first we were using zoom, which was great, but it just, I feel like we have a lot more control over what we want to do on Vimeo studio. And it looks a lot more professional. Um, and you know, it gives us, it it looks great it really does and then as far as like something we weren't doing pre-pandemic was recycling our event content at all in fact like i even had trouble getting my hands on like a recording of a session because i was like where does it go once it's done we had you know an av crew that we would hire to come on site and i i think they recorded it but i usually

didn't see a lot of the recordings from on site so now we've come up with a lot of new ways to recycle our event content and like build out a video aspect of our site which is something that we were always trying to do was build out like our video library but it was hard on top of everything else we were doing to then like record videos for YouTube essentially. So now we literally have hours and hours and hours and hours of all of this video that like, we're like, Hey, it doesn't make sense for this to just like go nowhere after the events over. So like we've created packages from them. We've done case,

we've used them as like case studies, you know, how X company did this. So that's something really interesting that we've done is we've recycled a lot of event content for maybe people that didn't attend and also our plus members, which we were not doing previously. So I think it's given us an opportunity to get into video, which was, we were dabbling with how to get into that before, but this made it a lot easier. Yeah, that's awesome. I was just thinking as you were talking about the hours and hours of recordings that you have available, do you guys have a TikTok account? I see an opportunity there for some snips and clips from events that might lead people to go to future ones. Yeah, so I think that Glossy actually just launched a TikTok account.

It's just at Glossy, which is really nice. We got a prime at name. We just launched it actually. You're right. I feel like we should put some like beauty stuff on there, especially the Addison Rae session. I feel like that. Oh, yeah.

But we actually just launched Glossy Pop, which is why we have a TikTok now. Glossy Pop is definitely more consumer facing. And we have a really great reporter on that team, Sarah, who's just like leading the way on all of our more consumer facing coverage, which is obviously new for us. But there's a lot of interesting stuff going on. She just wrote a great story about props. And I read everything that she writes.

It's great. Awesome. And it's Glossy writes. It's great. Awesome. And it's Glossy Pop. And that's a new outlet you have? Yeah, Glossy Pop is a new vertical inside of Glossy. It's just more consumer facing. So for example, Sarah wrote a great story probably a month or so ago now about the like cheapest designer item trend on TikTok. So

Glossy Pop covers a lot about like trends, new products, new brands, which is great for consumers, but I argue it's also really great for marketers to be like, hey, here's just one article all about this trend. Here's how to get in on it. And here's like what's authentic to this trend um so i have a feeling that a lot of our regular glossy business marketing readers are also reading pop to stay on top of trends and like gen z and everything like that um but it's also great just from a consumer facing uh angle too because i'm pretty sure we've done a couple articles now or at least one about like brands to look out for that just launched um so it's it's really fun that is super awesome I will be reading that for sure yes and speaking of what's trending uh the next question actually that we have for you is what predictions do you have for the future of events um will we continue to see virtual

gatherings on the rise or do you think now that everyone of events? Will we continue to see virtual gatherings on the rise? Or do you think now that everyone's getting back to going out and being on the town? Will we really just be looking at more in-person events moving forward? Personally, I think that people do want to get back to in-person events. I notice it now. I feel like there's a little bit of burnout with virtual events and people are looking to get back in person, but it's so like, it's developing so quickly. Like only a couple of months ago, I was like, there's no way people are going to be ready to go back to in-person events because, you know, if people are getting to travel for the first time now and over a year, why would they want to go to an event? Would they want to go somewhere with

their family? But people are ready to go. we started on our publishing summit which is like our big big tent event that we do twice a year and like people are so ready to be there in person i don't know if it'll be the same for every coverage area but i've i've at least seen it for for publishing um i think that honestly not and this is no you, it might sound bad for me, but I don't think, I don't think it is. I think that the speakers at our events are going to become a little bit less important. I think that if you're, or at least for the in-person events, I think that if you're going to an in-person event, you're there for the networking experience. And not that the speakers aren't important, but hey, maybe you wouldn't mind as much watching, you know, 50% of the sessions be pre-recorded or

virtual because you're there to network, you're there to meet and connect with other people. Whereas before I feel like there was a little bit more pressure to get speakers there in person. Now I feel like people are really just looking to connect again with people and, and, you know, the speaking content will be available online anyways. So it's like, it just gives you the opportunity to go in person is more of the draw over the content. Um, but the content is obviously still important. Um, I'm just thinking that people are going to be more occupied with wanting to network than wanting to listen to speakers, which is fine. I'm just thinking that people are going to be more occupied with wanting to network than wanting to listen to speakers, which is fine. I'm happy that everyone

wants to get back to that. And we're also going to make our event content available online after events are over. So even if you weren't there in person, you still have the opportunity to watch it. So it still gives us an opportunity to make really great content that, you know, people are going to enjoy. Yeah, I think it's going to be interesting to kind of see, you know, the trends in consumer, you know, what they continue to do and how they continue to want to consume event content. You know, I think obviously online events were popular pre-pandemic and they will continue to be, but it's going to be interesting. I'm excited to kind of watch you guys pivot and and you know, how your strategies and change through that. So one of the last questions that we have for you before we close out, and this is a favorite one of ours that we love to ask everyone, but what did you learn in your career early on that you wish you knew before? Or what did you kind of learn over time that you wish you knew early on in your career early on that you wish you knew before? Or what did you kind of learn over time

that you wish you knew early on in your career? Yeah, I mean, for me, it's all about like, being bold and asking for what you want. I feel like I can be even though I'm still a very outgoing person, I can be timid and asking for what you want. I think a lot of times too, is like women were like a little bit more timid in the workplace when it comes to that. Maybe we don't always want to, and especially just me personally, you don't want to necessarily step out of your shell and like be, you know, seen as greedy or as bossy or pushy. But I think that, you know, there's been things that I've asked for what I want. And I was like, you know, I'm just going to do it and I'm going to sweat through it, but I'm just going to ask for it. Like, for example, you know, shortly after I started at

Dish Day, they were already like, hey, let's, let's hire another event coordinator. Like our team is growing. We have our events business is growing. We're going to need another person. And that person will focus on brand and retail events. And I kind of was like, Well, I want I want to do that. I don't you know, I don't want someone else to do that. I have a good time programming all of our retail stuff. So I was like sweating, but I was like, Hey, listen, I don't think we need to hire someone to do that. I can we hire someone to maybe work on like the more media and publishing focused events, and I'd be happy to focus on brand and retail stuff. And now that is like my whole shtick. They call me the CMO whisperer internally. So I like it's all about

just being bold and ask for what I want honesty on. Like, you know, when I have my weeklies with my boss, I'll be like, Hey, listen, I don't feel great about where this event is at right now, which thankfully doesn't happen that rarely, but it's so much better just to kind of get it off my chest and be honest about it. And then like, and be consistent about it. Hey, listen, we're still in the red on this. And then that way, at least, you know, no one's surprised when, you know, if something doesn't go the way it's supposed to. So honesty and being bold, I think are, are the two most important things that I wish I knew earlier um but I've definitely learned it quickly yeah I love that the CMO whisperer that's hilarious yeah you know what I can't take any credit I really think it's just chance and obviously I

honestly I give it all to our editorial team because they're the ones who write such great articles and pieces that get gets us noticed by really great corporations whose CMOs then want to participate. So I give all the credit to our editorial team. I just get emails from PR like, hey, our CMO wants to participate in this. And I'm like, great, of course. I love that. And that's such great advice about being bold and being honest about where you're at and stuff. Well, thanks, Kaylee. Can you tell everyone where they can connect with you at on Instagram or LinkedIn? Yeah, LinkedIn is great. My Instagram is at Kaylee. My name is spelled C-A-Y-L-E-Y underscore Plotkin, P-L-O-T-K-I-N. Or if anyone's interested in learning more about speaking opportunities

or anything, you can email me, Kaylee at Digiday.com. that's it for this week's episode thank you so much to kaylee for joining us if you enjoyed this conversation please remember to rate and leave a review we truly appreciate it don't forget to follow along on our marketing happy hour instagram that's at marketing happy hr