Marketing Happy Hour - The Secret to Creating Scroll-Stopping Content | Rachel Lewis of Lonely Planet

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

This week, I’m joined by Rachel Lewis, Senior Social Media Manager at Lonely Planet, to hear her secrets behind managing the social media presence of one of the world’s most iconic travel brands. Rachel shares her journey into the world of travel marketing, the non-negotiables that guide her content creation, and her predictions for the formats that will dominate social media in 2025. We also dive into actionable tips for crafting compelling copy and short-form videos, balancing a remote career with personal passions like yoga and gardening, and Rachel’s advice for excelling in social media and brand marketing. Whether you’re a seasoned marketer or just starting in social media, this conversation is packed with insights to level up your strategy. Key Takeaways: // Social Media Non-Negotiables: Rachel’s top principles for impactful content creation. // Future Trends: Predictions for the content formats and strategies that will thrive in 2025. // Engaging Content Strategies: Pro advice on writing compelling hooks, voice-over scripts, and short-form video editing. // Tips for Effective Remote Work: Strategies for staying productive and connected while working remotely. // Work-Life Balance: Why pursuing outside passions enhances professional success and personal fulfillment. Connect with Rachel: LinkedIn Follow Lonely Planet: Instagram ____ Say hi! DM me on Instagram and let us know what content you want to hear on the show - I can't wait to hear from you! Please also consider rating the show and leaving a review, as that helps us tremendously as we move forward in this Marketing Happy Hour journey and create more content for all of you. ⁠ Join our FREE Open Jobs group on LinkedIn: ⁠Join now⁠ Get the latest from MHH, straight to your inbox: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our email list!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow MHH on Social: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Where is our audience at? What are they like that we posted in the past? And then what are our competitors up to? The other thing I try to really think about is purpose. I think when you're in social, it's really easy to get that kind of hamster wheel effect of we have to post something every single day, so we're going to just post something. Are we putting something out there just to put it out there? Or is it really serving a purpose? Is it going to connect with our audience? Welcome to Marketing Happy Hour. I'm Cassie, consultant, podcaster, and your host. Every Thursday, you'll hear episodes packed with insights from brand leaders on an array of topics, from crafting effective marketing strategies and hitting career goals, to building

leadership skills and launching your own business. Inspired by those unfiltered happy hour combos with peers, this show is all about practical, empowering chats to support your professional journey. So grab your favorite drink and let's get to the episode. I am so excited. This is a long time coming, I feel like, but having Rachel Lewis on the show, senior social media manager at Lonely Planet. She has nearly nine years of experience and we're just going to kind of explore her journey just overall career wise. Of course, here on the show, we always talk about career and just tips there, but also non-negotiables for creating impactful content, predictions going into 2025, things to just

kind of keep in mind as you're building your strategies in the new year, actionable copywriting and short form video tips as well. One thing we haven't dove too far into is some of those voiceover script strategies. So super excited about that. But Rachel, welcome to the show. Hi, I'm so happy to be here. Yes, I'm excited to have you too. And we were talking kind of off record prior, but you have something fun in front of you that you're sipping on. What do you have today? Yes, we have a little D'Soie here. The packaging honestly is what sucked me in. I've been enjoying these. I love something just tiny and cute in a can. Yes, we had Amruta from D'Soie on the show. We've actually had their CEO as well on the show, but Amruta was a part of designing that packaging. So she shared a little bit about that, but I'm a huge Dessoir fan. So got super

excited when you had that in front of you and that flavor is my absolute favorite. So I think, I think you'll enjoy it. Have you tried it before? Is this your first time? I haven't tried this flavor. I've tried the other ones, whichever one comes in the pink can. Yes. Yes. Summer, but I'm definitely doing the kind of sober curious thing and just kind of trying out all of these really nice brands that have been popping up in the last couple of years. Yeah. It's so good. Also just going into January as well. Dry January. A lot of people celebrate that, whether you're sober curious or just kind of cutting alcohol out in general. And it's such a great time to try a lot of those brands. So that's so fun. I'm so excited for you to check it out. Yeah, me too.

Yes. Okay, Rachel, well, tell us a little bit about your career journey. How did you land at Lonely Planet? I feel like like most millennials, I've done a good amount of job hopping around. When I was in college, my degree is in creative writing and professional writing and rhetoric. So the first time I really used social media was for one of my classes. It was one of the professional writing classes and we had to kind of tweet our homework out every week. So that's why I created my Twitter in the first place and was good kind of practice of starting to network on this very, very tiny scale.

And when I was in college, I worked at the writing center. So, you know, working with students, helping them with their papers. And I ended up helping them out with just the writing center social media. So that was kind of my introduction to social media as a professional versus just like posting on Instagram in 2013 and what that was with the filters and everything. And I really liked it. I kind of came to see writing through those classes in a little bit bigger of a way. I got really used to collaborating with other people on papers. I took a grant writing class that was really interesting as far as getting feedback, again, in a more professional sense. And I

realized that, you know, writing wasn't necessarily just sitting down and writing a paper. It could be something more creative. It could be something like a tweet. And I think that that kind of kick-started my larger career. So throughout my career, I've had solely editorial roles. I was one of the last senior editors for Bitch Media, which now is sadly closed. And for that, I was just fully editing all day, every day, as far as, like, digital pieces. I've also had social media roles that were full-time, like my role in Lonely Planet. And I always tell people, you know,

when I'm interviewing or just talking to other people who are interested in social, writing is writing at this point, you know, whether you're writing a really long Instagram caption or writing a voiceover script. And I just enjoy getting to write in a professional sense. I don't think I would have imagined this career for myself back when I was graduating in 2015, just with social becoming what it is. But it's an excellent space to be in. I think if you can handle the, you know, changing algorithms and more and more platforms popping out. But yeah, after college, I got my start as a freelance social media writer, freelance social media manager and a writer, places like Brit & Co,

Refinery29, just kind of doing the women's media space. And one of the very first freelance social media roles I had was for a candle brand that I had included in a roundup for a Brit & Co article. And they were just kind of looking for someone to help out. And I really enjoyed that role. It was very interesting. It was my first time, you know, kind of setting up flat lays and taking candles out into the grass and taking photos and getting more into the product photography. And Instagram always like to tell people that, you know, Instagram stories has not always been around. I remember my manager and I at that internship, you know, hopping on a phone call and being like, what is this? What are we going to do with these Instagram stories? So things have obviously changed a lot in the last couple of years there.

And my first full-time social media role was with Her Campus Media, which is sort of part magazine for college women, part agency for brands who are trying to get in front of that audience of college women. And that was really my first time really delving into social in full. I ran all of our social media channels. I also did all of our branded content for social. From there was promoted to senior editor, so managed a couple of our editors. And I learned a ton in that role. It was very fast paced. Social grew really quickly in those couple of years. I was also working in social when Facebook sort of transitioned from giving people traffic

and being a space where people were engaging to what it is now. So kind of working with that drop off. I think that role was definitely my first time learning like a lot of social media managers do that you really can't put all of your eggs in one basket and rely on a single platform. From there, I joined the team at Bitch Media, where again, I edited all of our kind of digital content. I also wrote a series called Very Online, which was a column about internet culture. So that kind of pulled me back into the social media realm. I ended up writing a lot about TikTok as that sort of took off closer to 2019, 2020. And then after I was at Bitch Media, I worked at a startup for about six months called Expectful. And it was a meditation app for women. I think it was acquired by BabyList recently. And that was interesting

because it was a startup. It was very quick. We were a very tiny team. So when I was at Expectful, I was doing everything from finding UGC for Instagram, starting to test out some stuff on Pinterest and TikTok, to just like testing out the app, working with engineers who were in different countries. It was very, very hands-on, definitely the most fast-paced role I've ever had. And what was interesting when I was working at the startup, and I'm sure lots of people who've worked at startups can attest to this, is we had very specific KPIs of like, how many people are downloading this app from Instagram? How many people are actually engaging with it when we

post on Pinterest? And then I ended up at Lonely Planet, which has been so much fun. It's this legacy brand. You know, it's interesting coming into a space where we're sort of, we've been known for guidebooks for 50 years, but obviously people travel in different ways than I did 50 years ago. make travel interesting to Gen Z? How do we get Gen Z to think about a guidebook? We have a really large international audience. We have millions of followers. So it's been really fun and challenging to be a part of the conversations of how do we appeal to these legacy followers who've been a part of the brand for ages? And I'll be traveling and someone will say, oh yeah, I used it when I was backpacking in Thailand 20 years ago. But also having these people who are like, I follow you on TikTok. Why should I buy your books? So it's a really fun brand to work with.

Travel translates beautifully to social, of course. And there's so many great visuals there. But it's definitely been an interesting space to work in as we think about that audience question and as social just turns into what it is. different industries is kind of alluding or adding to your experience overall as a marketer and just enhancing your skill set overall because I feel like sometimes I've spoken to people where they feel a little bit you know out of alignment with working in different industries but I always tell people I'm like the more spaces that you can work in and tap into I think let's say you come from one industry going into another there's so much that you can work in and tap into. I think, let's say you come from one industry going into another, there's so much that you can take from diverse industries and pour into what you're

doing in a present time. So I'm just curious how you have kind of approached that over your career experience so far. Yeah, that's a great question. I think when you work in social, working in different industries is really valuable and working in different verticals is really valuable because they're all going to use social in such a different way. I see people talking about this a lot, you know, on Substack and LinkedIn of social media manager is a title that means something, but it can also kind of mean nothing at all because it's been completely different at every single job I've worked at. I've had jobs where being a social media manager meant writing copy for Facebook and Twitter all day every day. I've had jobs like the one I'm at now where I don't really do that much on Facebook, for example. It's really about what we call our kind of original content channels and TikTok and Instagram and Pinterest. And I think that one thing that's been really helpful for me working in different industries and different verticals is realizing that you're not necessarily

the audience and that's fine. And what you have to learn to do is to think about that audience, to validate that audience, to really keep them at the forefront. I've worked in roles where I've had coworkers really struggle with that idea of maybe they used to be the audience, like at her campus, for example, when they were in college, you know, the content came really obvious to them of what are their friends talking about? What are they like? Perfect. Let's create content around that. But you get older and you're not necessarily that audience anymore. So how do you continue to tap into their interests? And I think it's a really valuable lesson for social media managers, but also really anyone in marketing to be able to think about their audiences. Yes, I should like the content,

but me liking the content is actually not the most important thing. I think a lot of people who've worked in social have probably had that experience of making something they're really excited about and it flops and nobody's interested in it, but then you're learning from the content that is performing. So I think being able to be comfortable in that space is really valuable and can also just kind of extend your career as a social media manager of it's not just that I can create great content because I'm the audience and I'm really interested in it but it's I can understand people who aren't necessarily me and what they're looking for when they're scrolling on their phone so I think that flexibility can be really key in that

awareness of audience as well yeah I could not agree more. And I think too, we as marketers, especially within a brand are so close to that topic and so close to that content. So to your point, expanding your perspective a little bit, and really, even if it's just asking your consumer, Hey, what are you looking for? What questions do you have? Or what do you need? Because a lot of times I feel like we can overlook some simple topics or themes just because we are so tied to that brand. So getting out there as much as possible and kind of expanding that vision around a topic, I think is super important. Yeah.

Absolutely. And one thing on that too, I think is just remembering how people actually use social media. I think like you're saying it, when you're really close to the content, every post feels really important and really precious. And you're like, of course, everyone's seeing this and engaging with it. And if they didn't like it, it's because they didn't like it. When in reality, so often is you're competing with tons and tons and tons of content.

Did they just miss it? Did they not see it in the first place? I think something that can be really valuable is learning how to tweak content and repost content and just kind of challenge yourself a little bit more versus saying, well, that didn't do well, so we're never going to do it again. Really remembering there is someone on a phone who was scrolling and that's what their experience is like. They're not at the desk in Canva, in CapCut, panicking about every single thing. Yes, there are a lot of variables to it. So yeah, don't get discouraged. Try to learn from it as much as possible and then use those learnings moving forward to your point. That's such great feedback. So I appreciate that.

I'm just curious too, when you're going to create content for social, whether it's a one-off piece or you're building a bigger campaign, are there any non-negotiables or things that you consider, think about when you're building a piece of content, no matter what it is? Yeah, I think when I'm creating a new piece of content, the first thing I go to is audience. It's, you know, digging through Sprout, seeing what's performed in the past, seeing what hasn't performed in the past. I like to really think about that data-driven approach as let's see how our past content has performed, but let's also see how other people's content has performed. I've always had kind of a running list of competitors that I'll check in on every so often, especially before we launch a new franchise or branded content or series and say,

if everybody is talking about Italy right now, should we talk about Italy? Maybe there's some benefit to that, but also maybe everyone is sick of talking about going to Italy for the summer. And there's something new that we can kind of inject into that conversation online and get that scroll to pause for a minute so they can engage. So I really like to think about, again, where is our audience at? What have they liked that we posted in the past? And then what are our competitors up to? The other thing I try to really think about is purpose. I think when you're in social, it's really easy to get that kind of hamster wheel effect of we have to post something every single day, so we're going to just post something. I've really, as I've gotten more into my career and more comfortable in my role, especially

at Lonely Planet, where I have this great team and we're all really supportive, it's nice to kind of pause even after you've put in the work and say, is this good? Like, does anyone want this content? Is this going to do what we want it to do? Maybe I thought it was funny a week ago when we started working on it. And now it's just kind of meh. Like, are we putting something out there just to put it out there? Or is it really serving a purpose?

Is it going to connect with our audience? Because we've always seen brands put something out there and maybe it flops a little bit. And even if it's not top of mind, it might shift how you think about the brand. And especially working on a brand like Lonely Planet, that's so beloved. I want all of the content to reflect our larger goals and keep people inspired and energized about travel versus just saying, here's our 50th guide to where to go to Italy. So I really try to think about the purpose of, is it necessary? Is it going to connect with our audience? And then gut checks too, I think are always really top of mind for me. Luckily, we have a pretty big team where I can reach out to,

you know, the editorial team or the designers even and just say, how is this? Like, is there anything that's kind of standing out for you? Especially at Lonely Planet, since we're creating content for an international audience, there are times where we'll spend a lot of time on a guide to a country where maybe there's a hurricane, maybe there's some other tragedy that occurs. We want to be really aware of what's happening on a global scale, which can be hard to do when you're one person on a small social team. So yeah, I really just always try to think about when it comes to creating new social content, what is our audience interested in? Is this even good in the first place? And is there any way that this could kind of land the wrong way? Yeah, absolutely. And I know a lot of brands can resonate with

this, but just having so much to potentially cover, I mean, travel is such a vast, exciting topic while also staying in line with launches, like as you all are launching guides, like making sure you're properly promoting that. How are you kind of thinking about varying content in a way to keep things interesting and different on social while also ensuring you are promoting those things coming out and making sure you're pushing conversions forward?

For example, what's that kind of experience that you're crafting looking like on social right now? Yeah, of course, that's something we talk about all the time. So myself and our amazing social media director, Deepa, we really think a lot when Deepa's putting together the calendar of, you know, what are these kind of larger moments where we can think ahead of, you know, holiday travel, summer travel, spring break, for example, people graduating, what can we kind of lock in in advance?

And luckily, we do have the books calendar to kind of sustain us as well when we have these really awesome launches coming out, maybe it does make sense to do a ton of content around Italy. When we have a new Italy guidebook coming out, we have the benefit of having these brilliant editors and contributors on the ground who can provide that first person touch that'll stop that scroll. So making sure we're not missing out on that as well. But I think within our calendar, we do a pretty good job of building in room for just interesting

things that come up. I think in general, when it comes to building a calendar and planning social, it's obviously smart to plan in advance. I think right now we have our calendar fleshed out for like the next couple of months, but there's flexibility within there, being able to drag and drop and move things around so that nothing is getting stale. And so that again, you know, what seemed exciting three months ago might not seem so exciting when that actually comes up. And as we know, too, the platforms are always changing themselves. When I was at Lonely Planet, I think it was last year, it might have been the year

before, when Reels sort of took over on Instagram, that was definitely a time we had to kind of pause and pivot and say, okay, we were doing pretty much photo posts at that point. Reels came in, Instagram is saying, you know, use Reels, you're going to get a lot of impressions on there. We had to kind of pivot and say, okay, do we do original video on Instagram? What does that look like? We have a video team with all of this excellent premium content. How is that going to translate to Instagram?

So being able to pivot while also having that calendar built out, I think can be really helpful so that you do have room to get creative, but also not to get to the week and say, what are we posting this week? Yeah. And I just love this overall trend of some of the insights you've shared so far about paying attention to insights, looking at what consumers are saying, but also seeing just what's happening in a current time. Because I think to your point, as a social media manager, content creator in general, just being able to be adaptable and flexible all the time and not being married to

a plan that you set several months ago. I think just culturally it's important, but also to your point too, what's happening on these platforms. Like, is there a new, uh, is there a new, you know, activation that we need to do on social that's different than what we thought several months ago? Our carousel is a big deal now, et cetera. So there's so many different factors to it. So I think just always remaining adaptable is such a huge, huge, huge, important strategy, no matter what you're developing. Absolutely. And I think when you've put a lot of time into something, it can be easy to be married to it. But I think it's always important to remind yourself that it's not actually for you at the end of the day. It's for your audience. It's for the brand that you're working with. Exactly. Exactly. Could not agree more. Okay. So I'm very excited to talk about

voiceover scripts. I'm so glad that you mentioned this just when we were chatting previously prior to this interview, because this is something we were chatting previously prior to this interview, because this is something we have not tapped on a whole lot, but it is something that is very relevant on social right now of just creating compelling and engaging voiceovers. So do you have any tips around that? Are you always including a hook in your voiceover script? Kind of what is that looking like right now for you? So when it comes to writing voiceover scripts for social, I have the benefit of having this really excellent video team to lean on. I am not a video editor by any means, but when you work in social these days, you have

to have some video skills, and I'm sure most of us are used to. And these days, especially with TikTok and Reels taking over, voiceover is a really excellent way of adding a personal touch to that and just making it a little bit more interesting than text going on screen, though that has its own place too. So when I'm writing scripts, the first thing I really think about is length. It's very easy to think that, oh, this is one page, it won't take that long. But something that I practice on my own is writing a script and reading it out loud a couple of times because you'll be surprised at just how long it takes to actually explain something in a page.

So length is definitely really important. But I think also just keeping it really interesting, keeping it chatty. You have to remember how much voiceover you're competing with when it comes to TikTok and Instagram or even other platforms these days where video is taking over like threads, Pinterest, for example. So when it comes to visuals, something that we really think about is that first second or two of having an action. Working in travel, of course, makes that a little easier because we can have someone, you know, jumping into a waterfall in Mexico, which is immediately going to be really appealing and look fantastic. But I also think about how do we have that sense of action and energy in a voiceover

script? And a lot of that is really getting to the point. It can kind of come automatically when you're writing online to like have this paragraph that's kind of guiding you into it and starting with that kind of funnel approach of we're gonna give you a lot of broad information. When it comes to social video, your best bet is really to get rid of a lot of that.

If you're telling people the best places to go in Mexico, just say, these are the five best places to go in Mexico. I also like to think about where we can personalize it a bit so we don't necessarily wanna say, these are the best places to go in Mexico. I also like to think about where we can personalize it a bit. So we don't necessarily want to say these are the best places to go in Mexico. If you're 30 and you're from New York and so on and so forth, but maybe it's these are the best five places in Mexico for adventurers. These are the best places for someone who wants something that's a little bit more of a luxury experience. So how can you tailor that to the sort of person that you think is really going to be interested in this content? And the other thing I think about is, again, just keeping it kind of relatable. When we're online and we're looking at articles, we'll maybe scroll through it a little bit

and we'll sit with some extra copy there. But how can we just keep it short and sweet? Like, what is the sort of thing you would actually send to a friend that would make you then want to go and book a trip? So I think just being really honest with yourself about, is this what has to be shared? Can I take out some of these adjectives, for example? Can I make this a little bit shorter? Because even a 45 second video is probably going to do a little bit better than something that's closer to three minutes, but it's full of a lot of fluff and stuff that you could probably get rid of as long as it's not going to hurt your feelings too

much. Yes, yes, absolutely. I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to watch a video and like sit there and waiting for the outcome or waiting for the content that you were promised at the beginning. And it takes like two and a half minutes to actually get that information. So I love your strategy of just cut as much fluff as possible, get straight to the point, tell people what you said you're going to tell them and get to it. I think that's great. And super easy too, if you think about it. Absolutely. And something else I'll add to that when it comes to writing voiceover is if you're something that I'll run into that's really interesting at Lonely Planet is there are times when I'm writing a script for a trip that someone else took. So we'll have to leave

some blanks in there. So it's kind of a unique exercise to say, okay, what do I want to know from this person? What does our social audience want to know for this person? And also how do I kind of build a skeleton for a script that I'm handing to someone who's a traveler or an expert local, but who doesn't necessarily work in social. So just kind of bridging all of that together and saying, for example, you know, these are this person's favorite places to go in Mexico. I want to know what they ate. I want to know what they drank. Did they go swimming somewhere? Did they jump into any waterfalls? So just kind of building the bones for that. And two, helping guide people in recording their own voiceover is something that

I've done that's been really fun. So we'll normally tell people, you know, if you don't have a full-on studio or even a microphone, like most of us don't, you know, go into a closet, hide under a blanket, speak into voice memo and then send that to me. And it honestly turns out pretty well for the most part. Yeah, for sure. That's a great idea too. I'm just curious to, you know, as we're recording this towards the end of 2024, going into 2025, what content formats and feel free to specify in specific platforms or hone into one only whatever

you want to kind of do with this question but what content formats do you predict are going to be really big and either up and coming or coming back if they haven't been popular for a while just going into the new year at this point I think it's tricky because there's so many platforms. I know we've seen like seven different Twitter X variations at this point. I think something a lot of social media managers will say is pause. Like it's okay not to be on every single one like silence brands thing where you'll see a lot of brands talking to each other. So when it comes to running threads for Lonely Planet, something I really like to do is just be a little bit chatty. So we'll do things like sharing really great visuals from our photographers on there. We'll just ask people like, what would you like to see here more? Something we've seen people ask for is like more expert advice. So we've had our editors do a couple of takeovers on there that has been kind of a nice throwback to when Twitter used to be a place where people

did that sort of thing of one of our editors did something about like being a tourist and why that's okay. And like, there's a reason that some of these sites are as popular as they are. So infusing that personal touch on threads where you can, I think is really important. Pinterest, I think it's always going to be about the visuals there. We've also seen a lot more video taking over there, which I think is really interesting. Something else I'm really keeping my eye on is Pinterest doing collaborations with different brands. I think it was REI where they did something around like holiday shopping. And I thought that was a really interesting idea of why not work directly with Pinterest? I love Pinterest. It's so fun. On Instagram, I think that's where we're seeing the most variety.

So I think when we think about utility content, when it comes to travel, carousels are always going to be helpful there. I think it's a great pairing of copy and inspiration as far as the photos go. I'm really interested in long form video over there. I think we're starting to see on YouTube shorts, for example, and TikTok as well, like being able to get closer to like 10 minutes and longer.

A lot of us, I think going into 2025, and I'm seeing this from people my age, I'm seeing it from Gen Z and even younger, being like, how do I increase my attention span a little bit? So I think that those longer video lengths are going to be really interesting. And when it comes to verticals like travel, sometimes it's just nice to see a lot of really gorgeous stuff and imagine that you were the person actually taking this walking tour through Dublin. So I'll be curious to see what happens with long form video over there. But when it comes to personalities and like local experts and travelers, I think short form video is going to continue to really be what people are going for there. So just having a person on selfie video saying, I just got off this plane.

Look at this. That's always going to grab our attention, I think, just as human beings and being able to really put ourself in that person's shoes. And as far as TikTok, TikTok is still a bit of a mystery for me. I'm on it all the time, but I think on TikTok, I'll be curious to see if they continue leaning into the carousels. I think there's always an interesting space for vlogs, especially at the top of the year. I love a good vlogmas myself. That's how I find so many people that I want to follow and copy all

of their travels around the world. But I think on TikTok, I kind of feel like they're going to throw something else at us. I don't know what it's going to be. I don't have any reason to be saying this or insider information, but I'll be curious to see how they kind of follow up on the explosion of TikTok shop and if we're going to see more product or less product leading into the new year. Yeah, I think so too. I mean, if you think about where these platforms were a year ago, I mean, it's completely different than how it is now. So it's going to be very fascinating to look back at this episode and just in general and see what actually did happen in 2025 because it could literally be anything. I think it changes,

feels like it changes like every single day. So I feel like we all have whiplash as social media managers, but it's also, it keeps things fresh and interesting at the same time. So I don't know, we'll see what happens. Absolutely. They'll keep us on our toes. Yes, for sure. Okay. So I don't know. We'll see what happens. Absolutely. They'll keep us on our toes. Yes, for sure. Okay. So I want to kind of go back to copywriting too. Copywriting is such a powerful, powerful tool for social and just other platforms as well, digitally, of course. Do you have any kind of strategies that you recommend for copy for social specifically? Are you seeing longer captions work well, shorter, shortest possible work well? What are you kind of seeing there and how do you approach copywriting for posts? Yeah, when it comes to copywriting on social, again, I like to really

put myself in the audience seat. So for example, on Instagram, we've really been experimenting with just like short little titles on all of them. So like saying guide to Alaska, and then the information is above just thinking about like, when they see the post, and they're scrolling, they're only going to see a little bit, what do they actually have to know there? I think it can be sort of instinctual to say, I want to write a lot of this, like, I have so much to say, how do I fit it in there? So just kind of working on balancing what actually needs to appear in the carouselel or in the closed captions on a video versus what can live in the caption itself. But then two, maybe it's that you have a short caption in the post itself, but then you're expanding on

in an Instagram story. So what is that actual journey like for the user? I also just like to do a lot of scrolling myself. I mean, I think the trickiest thing about social is we all just want someone to come in and say, okay, if you have a 15 word caption, everyone's going to love it. It's going to go viral. It's going to take off. But it depends so much on the content. Something that we experiment with a lot is having first person quotes from people that can really add something nice.

So if I'm working on a guide to California, for example, actually going through our California guidebook, finding an awesome quote from an author who's lived in California for 20 years and pulling that in there. So I personally like to sort of Frankenstein content around. So maybe building a carousel post that's actually made up of some articles, some guidebooks, some research that I'm doing on my own, finding gorgeous visuals to go with that. And I think that that packaging can help with the copy as well, because you have a really good sense of just what you're trying to do with the post in the first place. If you feel like the carousel does what it needs to do, keep the caption short. Why repeat yourself in multiple places? I also, though, just like to read from a

lot of different sources. I like to look at sites like The Kitchen's Instagram, I think is really great. New York Times is always kind of inspirational. The Cut is always fun. So even if the voice itself isn't necessarily the one that I'm using in the brand that I'm working with, just having a good sense of how people are talking online so you stay kind of on top of things and pretty fresh there. Substacks, I think, are really helpful to just be kind of on the cultural pulse of things. So having a good sense, again, of how people are communicating, what they're interested in. And then I also like to go on Reddit a lot. I think that that is definitely a space that will keep you on top of copy. People have no problem shaming brands on Reddit. So I think really kind of being vulnerable, looking up the brands that you work for, seeing what people are saying about

yourself. I always tell people one of my favorite parts of working in social is that they're going to tell you if they don't like it and they're going to tell everyone and they're going to be very direct. So there have definitely been times where I think a post is great, but everyone in the comments is like, who even made this? Like, why are we doing this? So really taking that feedback to heart and being willing to adjust. But I think more broadly when it comes to copywriting, just being willing to learn, being curious. I've definitely taken copywriting courses before. I did the I Love Creatives copywriting course, and I thought that was really helpful just to be around other people who are thinking about words in that way. And just

preventing yourself from getting stale. When you're writing a lot of posts, it can be easy to say, okay, we're just going to say, you know, whether this or this every single time, that's not actually going to be that interesting. So challenging yourself there and remaining creative, I think can be really helpful when it comes to copy. Yeah, so good. And thank you for mentioning that course. I think that's such a great resource too. And I've talked to a lot of people who are always just interested in outside of work, how can we expand our skill set and just improve in what we're doing? That's going to serve you very long term. So thank you for mentioning that. Okay, so I have to ask you about remote work. So you worked remotely your entire career. What strategies have you found to be most productive and just stay

connected with your team, stay energized, even just being at home most of your week? Yes, very pro remote work. I've had times where I go into the office just to be around coworkers. And I think it has its place, but I think it's very dependent on your work style and your personality. And I just want to talk to everybody. I just want to walk around and drink coffee. And that's not nearly as productive as me being locked here in my office by the windows and just focused. Something that I really take to heart is blocking out my calendar. So when I'm building my to-do list week over week, that really looks like me going in a

sauna, looking at my tasks and what my supervisor has assigned me for the week, and then literally dropping those into my calendar so that everything is color coded. And I can say, I actually can't have a meeting on Thursday because I have four hours blocked out for writing scripts or working on content ahead of winter week, for example. So I'm very strict with myself as far as my calendar and kind of use that as my guide to all things. And it's also a good check because when I realize I'm running out of space, I'm like, okay, we need to recalibrate here and look at our to-do list and see what's actually

the most important and what can maybe wait until Q1, for example. I think my other main piece of advice when it comes to working remotely, though, is to find ways to make yourself be very present for your other co-workers. That is some good feedback that I'm proud of getting when it comes to review season is that even though I'm not in the office, people do have a sense of who I am. They feel like they're hearing from me. So being the person who's willing to say, we haven't talked in a bit, like, can we just do a 20 minute coffee on Thursday? I think there can be some hesitancy to that when you work remotely, because you're like, well, I'm all the way over here. And am I bothering them? But in reality, like when you go to the

office, people go get coffee, and they go for walks, and they have those chats. So building those in where you can and not making yourself feel weird about it. Like we're all adults. We should all be friendly and just have a good sense of even just working styles, what people have going on. There have definitely been times where I have those chats and I'm like, I did not even know you had all of this stuff going on, or I didn't even know you had an interest in learning about this, which can be really beneficial.

And I think doing that across teams too, it doesn't just have to be an official business reason. I'll definitely have calls where I'm like, what is your job? What do you work on all day? What are your goals look like? And those have been some of my favorite chats to date. And then you feel a lot more comfortable with each other when it comes to, you know, getting and receiving feedback or having a brainstorm about something. So I really try to be present in those ways, even just on Slack. You know, if I'm in an all staff and I see someone I haven't seen for a while, just sending a DM like, I like your sweater. I haven't seen you for a long time.

Like, what do you have going on? So just reminding people that you exist, I think can be a good and important part of remote work because I see a lot when people talk about work from home and working remotely, people saying, well, are people going to lose those social skills? I think these days, even just with my friends, we FaceTime. We don't necessarily hop on a plane and go see each other all the time. So getting really comfortable building that same kind of conversation, but in a more professional way, I think can be really important and just remind people like you are there, you're around, you're interested, you're invested in the culture, you're just doing it in a little bit of a different way. Yeah, honestly, such great networking advice just in general,

even not within your company, like externally too, of just doing those quick little check-ins and sending someone a quick note. That's so good. And I also love how you alluded to just honoring your time blocks on your calendar. I've definitely been guilty of this where I've had a deep work session on my calendar. I'm a big time blocker too. And I'll have a client ask me, Hey, can you meet at X time? Uh, and I, and I say yes, because I'm like, Oh, I can just move this deep work session, but honoring that on your calendar and just making that work happen and treating that almost as a external meeting or whatever. Um, and making sure you keep with that time that you book for yourself. I think that's so huge. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Well, you're also a yoga teacher, which is so

awesome. So how do you prioritize passions just outside of your full-time job while also working a nine to five and why has that been so beneficial for you to do so? Yes, I am. I'm a brand new yoga teacher. I just finished my teacher training a couple of months ago. And I always like to remind myself that a lot of my best work happens when I am not sitting at my computer. I'm obviously very lucky to work from home. I'm very lucky to work for a company that really encourages us to just like be a part of the world and be a part of culture and to be curious in general. And you need time to think. I think these days it's really easy to say, okay, I'll just work more or okay, I'll just get more side hustles and I'll just stay more tuned in. But like, you have to go for walks and you have to get outside

and you have to just like get off of your phone for a minute sometimes. And I think we kind of underestimate how much it can hurt our workflows and our creative processes when we're not just like thinking and having an empty mind. I always joke when I go to yoga classes, like my co-workers want me to be here. Like I'm going to be a better contributor. I'm going to be a better creative and I'm not going to take things to heart so much, right? Like yoga for me is definitely A, one of my favorite things because my phone is not in the room and no one can contact me and I cannot scroll on TikTok, even though I really want to. But B, it just makes me more self-aware and helps you kind of put things in perspective a little bit. Not to turn this into a whole pro yoga thing, but I think if there's any kind of

hobby or passion project or something you can do that is not directly related to your work, it's still going to benefit your work because you need that time to just be a person and take a deep breath and pause. I think that it can be really harmful to just scroll and scroll and scroll and not actually interact with other people. Something I really value about teaching yoga and doing yoga too is that it just gets me into different spaces than I normally would be. It gets me talking to different people. So I'll hear a coworker say like, oh, I'm going to Iceland. And immediately I perk up and I'm like, why are you going to Iceland? What are you doing in Iceland? And that can inform a guide to Iceland that I'm doing in a couple of weeks too. So being around people is helpful, even if most of your day-to-day is building more digital communities and spending

more time online. Oh, I love that so much. I almost did my teacher training back in 2021, and I'm very much encouraged to pursue that again. So thank you for that. That's so much. I almost did my teacher training back in 2021 and I'm very much encouraged to pursue that again. So thank you for that. That's so awesome. And congrats on, on getting your cert and everything. That's amazing. Thank you. If you ever want to talk about yoga, let me know. Yes, I definitely will. I appreciate that. This has been such an awesome conversation. I have to ask you one more question just as we close out here. Is there, if you were to share one piece of career advice you'd offer to those looking to excel in social and brand marketing, what would you say? I think the main piece of advice I would give someone who wants to work in social and marketing

is just to be kind and curious. I had a boss once who told me that I lead with kindness and that really stuck with me. Because I think we're in this interesting kind of cultural moment of like, I don't have a dream job. Like I don't dream of working, but like a lot of us are working and do have jobs and we might as well be kind while we're doing it. I think it's always going to get you further. And I'm not even necessarily saying you have to be nice. You know, you can still take time for yourself. You can still have boundaries, but I think as cheesy as it sounds, just being like a kind person who is warm and who people feel comfortable coming with is always going to get you further at work.

And I think curiosity is just always going to be key, especially when you're working in marketing. You know, it's about people. It's about connecting with people. So even if that just looks like going to a yoga class or going on a trip to somewhere you've never been, or just sitting down with a print magazine and flipping through it for a while, I think if you're interested in the world around you, you're going to have a much easier time just like remembering what people want and they want to be inspired. They want to be interested in what they're doing. As easy as it is to just like make people mad on social, that's not really the stuff that we remember. We remember the posts that we saw and we were like, oh, like maybe I should go to Iceland. This is what I'm

going to do when I go to Iceland. So I think remembering that like there's people at the end of the day and that's who you're creating for can be really helpful. But yeah, curiosity and kindness I think would be my favorite. I love it. I love it. Such good advice. Thank you so much. And so simple, but it's like so good to go back to just those simple principles every once in a while. So thank you for that. Rachel, too, where can we follow along with you personally, but also Lonely Planet as well online? Yeah, Lonely Planet. We are at Lonely Planet all over the place. Don't forget about guidebooks. It's so fun to just sit with a book, even if it's somewhere that you're never going to go and just look at how gorgeous the world is, as cheesy as it sounds.

I have looked at so many photos and been like, where is this? I didn't even know the world could look like this. We're a lonely planet across the internet. And then I am Rachel Charlene L really everywhere and on TikTok and on Instagram, trying to become one of those, you know, LinkedIn social media girlies and posting some thoughts on there. So always around and always happy to talk social. Amazing. Thank you so much for everything today. We'll have all those links below so you can follow Rachel and Lonely Planet. Rachel, thanks for sharing all of these insights

and advice with us today. This has been such an impactful conversation. So really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for the invite. It's an honor. Thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, I would love your feedback. And if you're ready to take things to the next level, sign up for my weekly newsletter in the show notes. You'll get weekly career and marketing insights straight to your inbox. And if you have an idea for a future Marketing Happy Hour episode, shoot me an email.

Hello at marketinghappyhr.com. Thank you again, and I'll see you next Thursday.