Marketing Happy Hour - Tips on Navigating the Job Market and Career Uncertainty

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

Trying to build a freelance business while job hunting? Feeling stuck in your career and unsure of your next move? You’re not alone. In this episode, I sit down with Ashley Cohen, a brand strategist and marketing consultant, who’s in the trenches figuring it all out.We get real about what it takes to stand out as a freelancer, price your work with confidence, and actually land clients. Ashley also shares her perspective on the current job market, what hiring managers are really looking for, and how to network without feeling cringe. Whether you’re exploring freelance, looking for a full-time role, or somewhere in between, this conversation is full of honest advice to help you take your next career step—without losing your sanity.Key Takeaways:// Freelancing vs. Full-Time: The realities of balancing both and how to navigate career uncertainty.// How to charge appropriately and manage client expectations.// Trends in hiring and advice for marketing professionals.// How to position yourself for freelance work or full-time roles.// Overcoming self-doubt, staying adaptable, and keeping doors open.Connect with Ashley:  LinkedInVisit Ashley’s Website: Website____Say hi! DM me on Instagram and let us know what content you want to hear on the show - I can't wait to hear from you! Please also consider rating the show and leaving a review, as that helps us tremendously as we move forward in this Marketing Happy Hour journey and create more content for all of you. ⁠Join our FREE Open Jobs group on LinkedIn: ⁠Join now⁠Get the latest from MHH, straight to your inbox: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our email list!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow MHH on Social: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

If it is a no, it's not necessarily on you. It could just be you weren't an exact fit for the team, not based on your skill set, not based on who you are as a person. When you do get a no, be ambitious enough to ask for feedback. What did the other person who landed the job, what qualities did they have that I didn't? Were they a better fit and why wasn't I? And just show that willingness to grow and move forward because that will make a difference. Welcome to Marketing Happy Hour. I'm Cassie, consultant, podcaster, and your host. Every Thursday, you'll hear episodes packed with insights from brand leaders on an array of topics

from crafting effective marketing strategies and hitting career goals to building leadership skills and launching your own business. Inspired by those unfiltered happy hour combos with peers, this show is all about practical, empowering chats to support your professional journey. So grab your favorite drink and let's get to the episode. Today, I am stoked to be joined by Ashley and Ashley has an awesome experience from the past, which we'll get into. But right now she's kind of navigating this self-employment space and building a freelance brand. And so I'm excited to dive into just standing out and doing that, how to land clients and also just navigating career

uncertainty, looking for jobs, et cetera. And we have a lot to cover today, but Ashley, welcome to the show. It's so good to have you. Thank you so much, Cassie. I have a lot to cover today. But Ashley, welcome to the show. It's so good to have you. Thank you so much, Cassie. I am so excited to be here. So appreciate you setting this up. Oh my gosh, absolutely. You and I have gotten the chance to get to know each other over the last several months. And it's been such an honor to just meet you and learn more about you. And we'll talk through just kind of your story here in a second. But I got to ask, of course, first, what's been in your glass lately? Or do you have anything fun right now in front of you? Yeah, honestly, right now, I just have my trusty hydro flask with me. Honestly, what's been in my glass lately, I actually got like a matcha kit over the holidays.

So I've gotten like very into making my own matcha lattes at home and like doing the whole thing of like straining it and doing like all the different types of syrups in it. Very much into living my alter ego of having my own cafe one day. Oh my gosh. Oh, that's so good. That is one thing that I need to get more into. I absolutely love matcha. So I'm curious. I'll have to pick your brain offline, just about your experience with that. Oh, I love it. I love it. That's like me. I just started dabbling in like sourdough making, which is like a whole thing. So it's a lot of work, but, um, yeah, I'm like super excited about that. And it's very, I feel like it's kind of similar, like matcha. There's so many different approaches and like ways to prepare it and grades of matcha and

like all this stuff. So yeah, it's fun. I'm excited to hear more from you about that. Yeah, no, I'm always down to chat. Honestly, like very therapeutic too because it's a whole process to make it. So it's a nice way to start my mornings. I love it. Big fan.

So Ashley, tell us a little bit about your journey. What led you into marketing in the first place? And then how have you kind of transitioned over time into freelancing? Yeah, so I originally just got into marketing. Actually, prior to that, I was a sports journalist for a few years. And I really wanted to work in sports really wanted to tell stories. So actually ended up going to the University of Florida to pursue journalism and then while I was there I just really figured out the power that social media held in like amplifying those stories even more and connecting with others and I was like oh this is actually a line of work that I could go into realized really

like the magnitude that it held so ended up graduating with a degree in public relations and kind of just fell back into marketing as it related to building social strategy and helping brands amplify themselves. So worked for a performance marketing agency right out of college and then just really worked with a lot of different sports startups and sports leagues to tell their stories and help amplify narratives through that. So kind of like very like grabbing go as I related to building my marketing journey so far. And then my most two recent full-time roles, unfortunately were impacted by company restructures. So where it was kind of just thrown into the world of freelancing. I had done a little like freelance client work in the past while I was working full-time, but it was kind of the universe's sign telling me that, okay, like, this is your chance to like, actually bet on yourself and, you know,

build your business and make it grow. So I've been freelancing for almost two years now. And I love that mindset, too, by the way, because I think I mean, it's, it's really hard, like, don't get me wrong to just be in that situation and not feel like there's no way out, right? Like, just feeling like your only choice is just to, okay, I'm going to search for another job until that comes up. Like, I'm just kind of here in a holding and waiting period. So I think to your point, just taking your past skill set and saying, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to try this on my own and just start to, you know, obviously make income, but just broaden my experience and continue to

grow and develop in that way. I mean, I think that's so, so incredible to be able to make that choice. And although it's an unfortunate jumping point, I hope, you know, this time has been really beneficial to you. And I think as we were talking about just offline anyways, freelancing is such a great experience for expanding outside of your, your past and your current kind of industry and realm that you're in. And so I tell people all the time, I'm like, if you're feeling stuck or like you want some sort of creative, um, just kind of push, like doing some of that side work, if you're allowed, of course, with your job, um, kind of dabble in that. And, and I think there's a lot to, to learn from that. So I don't know if that's kind of dabble in that. And I think there's a lot to learn from that. So I don't

know if that's kind of been your experience so far. Yeah, no, it honestly has. Like I kind of mentioned as well, I've been in the sports space for a majority of my career and I was really hungry to see what else was outside of sports. Like what could I go into? What could I experiment in? And being a full-time freelancer has allowed me the flexibility and the opportunity to now work with clients that are outside that space. So I'm working with clients in the nonprofit space, in the sports adjacent fitness space. So I've been able to kind of hone in on my skillset that is transferable to other industries and really explore and have fun with the new opportunities that I've been able to create. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, there's a lot of professionals kind of facing career uncertainty

right now. You know, the job market is hard, like no, no sugarcoating that, right? So what has your experience been kind of with the freelancing role, developing that and growing that and building your clientele and serving your clients, while also still just kind of exploring what's out there full time wise. Like, how are you kind of approaching that mindset wise and also just time and kind of balance overall? Yeah, I mean, I think at the end of the day, like you still need to be bringing in income. So I kind of was like my hand was forced and, you know, freelancing and pursuing that as opposed to solely just focusing on a job search. So it's it's really kind of outlining your priorities and understanding, OK, what do I need to do at the end of the day? But also how can I push myself forward?

So I've been able to build a good like base clientele that I know that I'm bringing dollars in at the end of the day to pay my bills, to pay my rent. But I'm still pushing myself forward as a marketer and as a professional. So I'm able to be selective with what kind of roles I want to go after because like you mentioned, the job market's insane right now. I've been freelancing for the last two years because I haven't been able to find a full-time role that aligns with where I want to go. So I've been fortunate in the fact that I've been able to build my freelance business

and find clients that allow me opportunities to explore new career paths and explore new skill sets to only make myself in a better position to find that full-time role that I want to go towards. As it relates to kind of finding that balance, because it is a lot, because finding a full-time role is a full-time job, it's just being really selective and tailoring your experiences and your whole journey to figure out where you want to go next. Going in and really perfecting who you're talking to and building your network and constantly taking advantage of what's in front of you and making the best of it and being scrappy to push things forward. Yeah, that's great advice.

And we're going to pivot back into that here in a minute and just talk more about kind of approaching the job hunt and what you're doing now just in the scope of 2025. But first, I want to talk about just growing your freelance business. This is something, as we were talking offline about, that there's a lot of younger professionals and even professionals several years in their career who are kind of looking to maybe dabble in that and yes, make a little extra income, but it's also, again, a very valuable way to just broaden your experience and gain more expertise, not only providing creative and marketing content to different industries, but also just flexing your experience of like being your own boss and managing a number of different functions. It really, in my opinion, is a strong lesson in organizational aspects and other things.

So I'm just curious, like talking specifically with that, first and foremost, what do you feel have been some of like the must have skills that make you as a freelancer stand out in social media and content strategy? Yeah, I think it's a great question. And I don't know if there's like a single right answer that's going to apply to everybody. But I think for me personally, you know, being a student of what's constantly evolving, this industry is constantly evolving, whether it be the algorithm, whether it be content that is, you know, being pushed and so forth. So just being proactive and being able to adapt as needed and being able to articulate that to whoever you're talking to, whether it be clients you're currently working with or even like future clients that

you're wanting to potentially work with. Being able to really showcase your knowledge and your skill set and your passion for the industry really does go a long way. I think it's easy as when you're working in the industry to feel like you're in a bubble and you think that everyone knows how things operate and how things are supposed to be. But people want your services because you're an expert in the industry and you're an expert of what's going on.

So it's important to kind of reflect on that and realize that and being able to talk confidently and what you have to present as services. And then even kind of just going into the confidence aspect, you have to sell yourself as a freelancer. You know, a lot of times as a marketer, you're kind of, you get presented a brief, you get presented the project and you work on it, but you're also doing the other aspect of this now and selling yourself, selling your services as to why it would be essential to a specific client. So it's getting comfortable with that and just building that confidence and being able to talk

about what you have to offer and why it would be a good fit for those brands. Yeah. And speaking of that, the communication piece and kind of clarity of messaging is obviously very important. And with that comes this whole pricing conversation of like, how do I price my services and then explain the value that a client is receiving from those services? And obviously, definitely not asking you to share your pricing. You do not have to do that. But how have you kind of approached pricing what you're offering? I know it's kind of different. Like a lot of us marketers are so used to collaborating with agencies, for example, where there's like six people that you're working with at a time and offering a one to one service is a little bit different. Right. consulting and I'm still figuring it out. Like I, I do not have all of the pieces together. There's some, I'm slowly learning, but I'm curious to hear, like, how are you kind of deciding what

that looks like depending on not only the value that you're providing, but the deliverables themselves too? Yeah. So I think that's kind of a twofold answer. I was talking with a mentor of mine and I, when I was first starting out, because I was like, I have no idea how to go about this. Like, what do I price myself out for? Like, what is, what is like too ambitious? And people are going to be like, what the heck are you doing? And what is like very much so underselling yourself? So having a conversation with my mentor, he kind of just gave me the advice and was like very blunt and was like, look at your expenses that you have month to month. What can you do at a bare minimum that, you know, it makes sense for you and

makes you comfortable, but also allows you to get the job done at the end of the day. So taking that into account and then just being transparent with others in the industry, talking to them, I think there's still such a stigma around talking about pricing, talking about what you're doing month to month from a financial standpoint and being able to just have those conversations and be real. And so you know what market rate typically looks like. So you can make sure that your skill set and what you're offering matches that is key. Yeah. And then with that too, just getting yourself out there as a freelancer, you know, there's always this, if you start freelancing, all of a sudden you've been in a corporate setting for a while, for example, let's say it's this task of then

having to present yourself as a freelancer and get that word out there and start to build clientele. So I'm just curious, like what has been the process for you for landing clients? Is it just starting with your network first and growing from there? Or what's kind of been the strategy of just landing different opportunities? Yeah, I think the best strategy is honestly word of mouth. I've always been a very savvy networker. I view networking as making friends, to be completely honest. So I've always been one to build my network and just constantly talk to people about, you know, whatever is in my mind at the moment, whether it be marketing or elsewhere. But being able to have that strong network to rely on has been like

instrumental in the success that I've had so far as a freelancer, just because I, you never know who knows who. So I got connected to a Nike gig and worked with Nike around the world a couple years back because I had a friend of a friend who knew that they were looking for an opportunity for someone to come in and kind of lead a strategy for a project for Nike. So working in sports all my life, that was kind of what I consider as peak of my career. But that wouldn't have happened unless it was word of mouth and my tenacity and building my network and growing. I can't overstate the value of nurturing your network because it really will go a long way. Oh, yeah. Okay. So question on that then,

like, what do you mean by that? How are you approaching networking? This is like one of my favorite topics ever. Like you mentioned, and I love how you said you're kind of approaching it like friendships. Like Like I absolutely love that because in my mind specifically, and I'm curious if you agree or this is kind of what you're thinking, but if you approach building a network like you would just building a regular relationship, like the way that you should be pouring into a regular relationship, like think about your network in that way. Like are you checking in with people? Are you, you know, congratulating them when, when something happens in life or whatever. So I'm just curious, like what, you know, what does nurturing those relationships look like for you

and how are you kind of currently building your network? Yeah. So I actually, funny enough, gave a seminar on networking to high schoolers when I was in college. And it was like, you have to treat networking like dating. Like you have to go out, shoot your shot. Cause the worst thing that someone can say is no. Um, you have to go out, shoot your shot and then nurture those relationships as it relates to like following up with them, you know, making sure that you're celebrating their wins and making them feel valued. If you want to feel valued It's about just opening that line of communication and keeping that line of communication open because at the end of the day, like for me, as an example, when I was impacted by my last company's layoff,

I knew I could talk to people because I had those relationships open. It wasn't me going to people that I haven't talked to in months and being like, Hey, can you help me find a job? It was more so like they knew the position that I was in because I had that open line of communication already. So that way they were much more willing to help versus me almost cold outreaching to them. Yeah. And just to your point, like being open with what you're working on and what you're looking to do and dropping those seeds over time. And I think to your point, the hope is like if something opens up that someone hears about, like you would hopefully be one of the first names on on someone's mind for that opportunity. challenges or hurdles or things that you faced first starting out with that that you have since

overcome and like how have you kind of overcome that roadblock I know with running your own business there's a number of things that are always happening but anything that was kind of like surprising to you that you've since overcame yeah I think I knew what my skill set was as it related to like building brands, building out social strategy, building out communication strategy. And so I really had to learn the art of selling myself and going out and being like, I can do this, this and this. So I think I got really ingrained in learning how to sell myself. I almost felt imposter syndrome about what I was selling because I wasn't regularly doing that. So I think it's important to give yourself grace if you're starting out freelancing, just because you are doing so many different things.

And in being confident in yourself and knowing that, you know, I'm selling myself because I know that I can do what I'm selling. So it was reflecting on that. And then on the flip side of things, once I sold my services, and I had all these opportunities in front of me, it was figuring out, okay, how do I structure my days? Because I don't have one single boss necessarily. I'm working with a lot of different clients, so it kind of is an agency in that aspect, but it's not because you're doing a lot of different work for a lot of different clients. So being able to structure your days. I'm personally not a morning person.

I would much rather wake up, take my time, and then afternoons are where I work best. So I did that strategically with what I was working on day in and day out. I was able to structure my days, make a to-do list every day that allowed me to follow that flow of work. Yeah, I loved talking about that with you in our last conversation of just, it's like a lesson in self-awareness too, like knowing when you're best showing up and being able to optimize your day. I think as freelancers, consultants, we have the luxury, fortunately, of doing that, which is really great. But I think if you're also in a corporate setting, like, you know, being transparent with your leader and saying, hey, I do these kind of projects best this time of day and just seeing if there's any flexibility there.

But so I want to kind of pivot into the job hunt conversation. So what trends are you seeing right now just overall in hiring? And is there any advice you'd pass along to other marketers just looking to land full-time roles right now? Yeah, I don't know if this necessarily relates to trends that I'm seeing because I have been on the job hunt for almost two years now, which is crazy. And then when you say that at face value, it can be kind of undermining to like what you, who you are as a professional and like feeling down on yourself. So I think the biggest thing to keep in mind as you're going through the job hunt is to be tenacious and being able to push

forward and like really overcome adversity because I know I'm not the only one in this position. There are so many talented marketers that have been affected by layoffs over the last few years and I this might just be me being an optimist but I do see a lot more marketing roles being posted now which is very assuring and very encouraging. So it's it's being able to be mentally strong to get through the job hunt that's going to make the difference. And also just blindly applying just does not work nowadays. So it is that much more important to really nurture that relationship and nurture your network, like I previously mentioned, because that's really made a difference in my job hunt so far is being able to rely on connections to being able to like utilize referrals or just make a connection to someone who works at a company

to land those interviews and really shine from there. Yeah. Thank you even just for that, that optimistic mindset and approach. And just a reminder there, because it is it is can be exhausting. It can be frustrating, you know, to kind of go through this. And to your point, not just blindly applying, because I think that almost adds to the frustration of in your mind thinking like, well, I've applied to 150 jobs in the last week, like what's happening. And I think more to your point, it's like making sure each application is intentional and you have some sort of connection if possible to the brand. So that's a good reminder too, of just like optimizing your energy that you're putting

into the job. It's it's? It really is quality over quantity. I cannot emphasize that enough. Like when I was first starting out, I was applying just like left and right because I was like, oh, that's what I know. That's what's landed me in the past. And then when I literally probably applied to 100 jobs, did not get a single interview. And I was like, what is wrong with me? Like it's easy to fall into that mindset of, okay, I'm not good enough for this. Am I not really like as good as I am? And then it's important to be able to take a step back and also like lie on your network as well in that aspect.

Let them validate you because it's easy to fall into that trap of being of imposter syndrome and not thinking that you're as good as you actually are. And taking a step back and really thinking strategically about how to go about those applications, tailoring the resumes as annoying as it is, tailoring your resume to every single job that you're applying to and finding any and every connection you have to the company. If you have, you know, a previous coworker that is a second connection to, you know, the hiring manager, utilize it. It's the same mindset that you need to have when it comes to networking. You need to shoot your shot because the worst thing that someone can do is leave you on read or tell you no. And you're never going to

know if they can connect you to that unless you actually take the risk on yourself and make it happen. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, such good advice. So kind of on that, you mentioned tailoring your resume, which is a really, really great point there. Anything else or even just going deeper on that, like how are you approaching building your resume? And then also, let's say you land an interview, like what are some strategies that you've seen be effective in the interview process as well? So tailoring your resume, I like to really dig deep into the job description itself and look at what I have to offer, whether it be existing bullet points on my

kind of home resumes, like to call it, and seeing how I can edit accordingly and make it fit the job description to the best of my abilities. And then taking things a step further, once you're able to land an interview, which is a feat in itself, honestly, in today's job market, once you are able to land an interview, this might be very type A of me, but I literally create Google Docs for each individual interview that I'm having, where I'll lay out the job description, I'll lay out what I did on my resume, and then I'll go into ChatGPT and plug in the job description and say what could be some potential interview questions that I will have for this. Lay that all out in that Google Doc, and then I will think of the

answers to how I'll answer that, and then practice those answers. It sounds like overkill, but it's really helped set me up for success in all the interviews that I'm having now where I'm able to be almost overly prepared for the interviews. So the time that it comes, I'm able to just have that natural conversation because I have that base knowledge to work off of. Yeah, that's so good. The preparation is really important. It's same with like thinking about going into a presentation at work or whatever, like coming back with research

and just insights that you can pull there are really good. So following an interview, how are you kind of managing the follow-up of that too? Because I hear a lot of people ask like, when should I follow up after the initial interview or the second interview or however far? And then let's say, for example, it's a no. How are you maintaining the connection, if at all, with that previous hiring manager? And do you feel that's beneficial just to keep the door open just in case? Like how are you just

kind of approaching networking, I guess, with the hiring managers in general so I think it's important to keep in mind that it's so important to not burn bridges even if it is a no and it's also important to keep the mentality of the fact that if it is a no it's not necessarily on you it could just be you weren't an exact fit for the team not based on your skill set not based on who you are as a person it's just they found someone that was a better fit, better mesh. And so just allowing yourself to not get derailed by that at all. And even if you are upset about it in the moment, allow yourself to be upset, but then keep on moving. It's so important to just keep trudging forward and just keeping that mentality in mind throughout everything. So as an example, when you do get a no, be, you know,

be ambitious enough to ask for feedback. Ask, you know, what did the other person who landed the job, what qualities did they have that I didn't? Or why were they a better fit and why wasn't I? And even if they don't respond to you, I've definitely had a, you know, a handful of hiring managers knock it back to me when I do ask for feedback. That's okay. You have to do your due diligence on your side and just show that willingness to grow and move forward because that will make a difference. And I still do keep in touch with hiring managers that I haven't landed roles at just to keep that door open, just because you never know when there will be an opportunity to present itself.

Oh, such good advice. Yeah. And I'm just curious, too. I've been having a lot of conversations with people just about this idea of personal brand. And I think a lot of times we think of personal brand, we just think in the corporate space like how are you kind of developing your own personal brand and communicating your value whether it's on a resume on LinkedIn etc and any just advice for kind of developing what that looks like absolutely I am such a big advocate for personal brand. I was building my personal brand before I even know there was a term for it when I was in high school looking to break into the journalism industry, which is crazy to think that I was a high schooler looking to do that. That was when Twitter was in its heyday, when it was still Twitter RIP. I just saw so much value in the ability to just connect with literally anyone you wanted to

all over the world and I actually made my twitter name the short girl ash because I am not even five feet tall and I was like oh that's like my indicator because I remember seeing like a tweet that was like oh you know like Becky with the the good hair or like you know you know the tall girl that plays on the volleyball team and I was like like, what is my indicator? Like, what do people know me as before they actually know me? So I just made it the short girl lash and ran with it. Like my professional email is literally the short girl lash at gmail.com now, because that's how people know me. And that's how people knew me because I grew my personal brand on Twitter. I was building my own content strategy before I knew what a content strategy was. And it was just, that's how I was positioning myself and making those connections but so I've always

been a huge advocate for just you know building your brand and advocating for yourself and not necessarily keeping it all like polished and buttoned up because in the day we're all humans and people want to connect with other humans so I always kept that mentality too in building my personal brand of I know what I'm good at I know I you know, really excel when it comes to professional landscapes. But I'm also a person at the end of the day, I'm also still a personality. I also still want to, you know, have friendships. So being able to blend the two, I think is is really integral when when building a personal brand, just because people want to connect with people. Yeah. Well, I have to ask you too, like,

I love the confidence that you exude and just the excitement around what you do and everything. Like how has developing that confidence been for you and like any just tips for, for doing that ourselves, like as we're either navigating our careers or just even personally, like what have been some things that you've kind of thought through in terms of just building that confidence for yourself? First and foremost, I appreciate that because it's definitely something that I'm still working on. So I love to hear when people are like, oh, you're so confident. And even if I don't feel the most confident, I'm like, oh, that's cool. Like I's amazing. It's amazing. I really appreciate it. But I think it is kind of keeping that mindset of fake it till you make it

if you don't have it with you on that certain day. And going back to when I was in high school and when I was being super ambitious and talking to people, I was 18 years old trying to pitch myself for media companies and writing. Again, I was 18 years old. I had no experience aside from creative writing courses in high school. But I knew what I was passionate about. I, I was 18 years old. I had no experience aside from like creative writing courses in high school, but I knew what I was passionate about. I knew I was passionate about sports. I wanted to write about it. I wanted to talk about it. So I took that passion, was able to replicate that on Twitter and then connected with, you know, a lot of people in the sports space. I ended up leading to a job for me in college where I wrote for SB Nation for all four years of college because I had built myself on Twitter and was confident in what I had to offer. So having that as kind

of my foundation has just helped me grow even now, 10 plus years later of still having that mentality and still being ambitious, still putting myself out there and just moving things forward. I love it. Great advice. And I just am curious, like as we close out to you've shared some really good advice for just like getting unstuck and approaching whether it's freelancing or searching for a job, building your career in general, but anything else you'd share of just if someone is in this space where they're like, I don't know what to do next, or I know what I want to do next, but I'm just feeling this frustration of trying to get there. Like any additional words of encouragement or advice for someone kind of in that position currently? So in addition to being confident, it's also super important to be open minded. Even in my current job search, I am being very open minded. I've kind of built my bread and butter in social and digital marketing, but I am super interested and super passionate about growing my skill set outside of that experiential looking at even relationship management, because that's something that I've honed in over the

years. So being able to be open-minded while also being confident in what you have to offer really does go a long way. Like as an example, maybe even looking outside of marketing, I'm currently looking at even customer experience and customer success roles because those are such transferable skills from relationship building, from stakeholder management in marketing that you can transfer outside. So just really being able to be willing to be open-minded about, you know, what that career next step looks like. Yeah, that's such a good reminder too. And I think not discounting those other experiences too, that you,

you could potentially get, I think like to your point, a customer experience role or something where you're literally speaking to clients and everything one-to-one, there's so much that you can learn from that to reattribute back to marketing. Let's say you jump back into that space down the road. And so I think I love this mindset of like being open to the different opportunities out there that you could potentially step into because A, you never know what that could lead to. And then B, I think all of this stuff that we collect over time is so valuable. I was recording with someone earlier today, Kyle from Morning Brew, and he said this quote that was so good. And he said, you have to collect the dots before you connect the dots. And I was like, that's so brilliant. Yeah. And so it kind of reminds me of that because I think a

lot of times we like get to a point in our career and we look back and we're like, you know, I worked at Starbucks and I did this and like all this stuff didn't make sense. And it's like, no, there's like really valuable things, not attributing a customer experience role to working at Starbucks. But you know what I mean? Like there's, there's these things that we collect along the way that a make us who we are and then be make our experience what it is. And I think having specifically that one-to-one experience with customers directly, you learn so much about like marketing wise, how to, how to message and how to solve problems and all this stuff and all of those different steps along the way are so valuable. Yeah, no, absolutely.

And, and kind of just honing in on, you know, being open-minded while I've been going through this freelance process. Like I mentioned earlier in the episode, it's important that you're making enough money to pay the bills at the end of the day. And there were, you know, a couple months where it just wasn't hitting it what I needed to. So I took a step back and was like, maybe I just find a part time like local role that is like in person somewhere, whether it be at a restaurant, like as a host or like a waitress, or like a front desk associate somewhere so I actually ended up working for a local Pilates studio here in New York and I'm still working with them on a part-time basis as supplemental income and that led to my fitness marketing client that I now

host and now yeah so it's really like just reflecting and being scrappy like how can I break in and differentiate myself in the market? Because just throwing myself out on LinkedIn maybe isn't going to work right now. So how can I, you know, kind of get back to the grassroots and be able to break in in that aspect? Because you never know what's going to happen there. It's so good. It's such a fresh perspective. And so thank you for just sharing that. Because I think, again, a lot of times we're like very hesitant about making a certain step because we're like, how is it going to look? Or, you know, how is it going to make me feel to like do this one role that I'm not used to? And I think it's just good to to be open and see what happens with that.

And the thing is, and I tell people this all the time, I'm like a career move or a position. It's not forever. Like you don't have to stay in this scope that you're in right now for the rest of your life and so just being open to trying and if it doesn't work out it doesn't work out and like you can pivot from there so exactly yeah I can't can't emphasize that enough like it really is just about trusting the process and yes being willing to take a chance on yourself because you don't know what's going to happen down the line if you do. Oh my gosh, so good. This has been so amazing, Ashley.

I'm so excited to keep checking in with you and just seeing like where you're at and what you're building and love chatting with other consultants and just people in the marketing space, of course, as well. And so thank you for sharing this today. I want to know where can we follow you along? Where can we learn more about like your services

and what you provide? How do we get in contact with you? Yeah. So there are a few different channels that you can go through. So one just added me on LinkedIn, Ashley Cohen based in New York. I know Cohen's a pretty common last name, but so LinkedIn is one, or you can even check out my website, which is ash Cohen, A S H C OH-C-O-H-E-N.com. As well as even shoot me a note, like I mentioned earlier, the shortgirlash at gmail.com is the best way to get a hold of me. Always down to chat, always down to jam. And yeah, no, thank you so much again, Cassie. This has been fantastic.

Amazing. Ashley, thank you so, so much. This has been so wonderful and so glad we came across each other several months ago. And I'm just thankful that you pass along this encouragement. I think this was a really refreshing conversation. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. No, likewise, Cassie. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, I would love your feedback. And if you're ready to take things to the next level, sign up for my weekly newsletter in the show notes. You'll get weekly career and marketing

insights straight to your inbox. And if you have an idea for a future marketing happy hour episode, shoot me an email. Hello at marketinghappyhr.com. Thank you again, and I'll see you next Thursday.