Marketing Happy Hour - What Consumers are Craving This Year: Personalization + Intentional Connection | Michael Kaye of OkCupid and ARCHER

Starting point is 00:00:00 you're listening to the marketing happy hour podcast where we discuss career and industry insights with our peers in marketing we're here to talk about it all like the ups and downs of working in social media how to build authentic relationships in the influencer and pr space managing a nine-to-five and a side hustle at the same time, how to be productive in your life and career without losing your sanity, and more. Ultimately, we're here to build a community with you because we're all trying to navigate the world of marketing together. Are you ready? Grab your favorite drink and join your hosts, Cassie and Erica, for this week's episode.

Starting point is 00:00:57 Dating apps are so unique in that they're essentially a marketable product infiltrating one of the most intimate and personal experiences we have as humans, finding a romantic connection. And if you're on some of them, you know how exhausting it can feel as a consumer endlessly swiping before you find your perfect match. In this episode, we're chatting with Michael Kay, Director of Brand and Communications at Match Group, working on both 20-year legacy brand OKCupid and startup brand Archer. In our conversation with Michael, he outlines how each brand is breathing new life into the online dating space and standing out to younger millennial and Gen Z daters by staying timely and culturally relevant. We also chat through the fact that

Starting point is 00:01:37 today's consumers are craving personalization and real-life connections with the brands they know and love. Yes, including and especially dating apps. And Michael shares five strategy essentials to keep in mind during your brand's first 100 days. A callback to his experience launching Archer. Go ahead, grab your favorite drink and listen in to this week's episode of Marketing Happy Hour. All right. Hi, Michael. How are you doing? I'm doing well. How are you? I'm also doing great. I know that you're a listener, so you know that this is coming. But before we get started, I have to ask you a question that we ask all of our guests, and that is what is in your

Starting point is 00:02:20 glass this afternoon? Well, I'm currently drinking iced coffee, even though here in New York, it's less than 20 degrees. I really wish I was having an espresso martini, but I am doing dry January. So let's circle back in February with that one. Yeah. We'll check back in with you to see what you're, what you're up to back in February, but Cassie, what do you have in your glass? Oh man, I am super boring right now. I just have water, but I'm actually, um, gonna head over to Disney here in a little bit surprise and hopefully get a fun beverage there. So stay tuned on that as well. How about you? Uh, I'm just sipping on our listeners know that I love this brand is called Orabora. Um, this flavor is strawberry basil. It's a flavored sparkling water. And I

Starting point is 00:03:05 don't actually like a lot of the sparkling waters that are out there. I think they're always like too sweet or like don't have enough flavor or whatever. Ouroboros is awesome. So highly recommend. Yeah. Huge fan. Well, Michael, as Erica said, we're super excited to have you today. Just stoked to learn from you and your experience. But before we dive into that, do you mind sharing with us a little bit about your career journey and what led you to become the director of brand and communications role that you hold today with Match Group? parents told me I would end up in marketing or public relations. So naturally, I explored every other career path from journalist to teacher. And of course, I now work in communications and marketing. I spent over five years on the agency side working at boutique midsize and large firms, Edelman, Reuter Finn. And in early 2019, I actually got a cold message on LinkedIn from OKCupid's former CMO, Melissa Hobley, who's now the global CMO at Tinder. And she's a dear friend and mentor,

Starting point is 00:04:17 but we had not known each other yet. And she had mentioned that she had a role opening on her team for someone to lead PR for the brand in the United States. And eventually the role would expand into a global role. And admittedly, I had not heard about OKCupid prior. I was only on dating apps for less than a month when I graduated college in 2014. I am still with my partner that I met on Tinder almost 10 years later. And everyone's going to be annoyed with me. He is actually the first date I've ever been on. So we are one and done here. I'm a Tinder success story and I'm obsessed with that brand. So I guess I'm not surprised that I work in the same company as it now. But that's sort of how I ended up here.

Starting point is 00:05:06 And over the past almost five years, my role has continuously evolved and expanded. So I mentioned I started at OkCupid leading PR for the brand in the United States. I then got to work with our global director of marketing at the time and bring the brand to Australia, Germany, Israel, Turkey, and the United Kingdom. And now I'm focused on OkCupid US and OkCupid Israel. And for the past couple of years, I've also worked on a brand new app that we launched last summer, which is called Archer. It's a new dating app for gay, bisexual, and queer men. And for that brand, I sort of work on everything within the communications marketing umbrella from PR to influencer marketing, events, social media, partnerships, so really all over the place. But

Starting point is 00:06:02 that's what keeps it exciting. And it's nice to work on two completely different brands. One, a legacy brand that's been around for actually 20 years this month. And another brand that's very much a startup. Oh, I love that. Well, I want to ask you about storytelling. I can only imagine all of the stories that come out of just from users using the app, finding their partners, finding the loves of their life through, uh, through the experiences that they have with your guys'

Starting point is 00:06:29 applications. Uh, but on that, how are okay. Cupid and Archer both breathing new life into the online dating world. I know there's a lot of opinions and ideas about online dating. It's obviously changing very rapidly, uh, but just thoughts on that specifically. Yeah, it's changing rapidly, like you said, but it's also a very crowded market. I saw a report a couple of years ago that said there was over 1500 dating apps in existence, which is terrifying for me, but also just shows how attractive this market and this space really is. And I mentioned this a little bit before, but they're very different brands. So OkCupid is a brand that's just celebrated its 20th anniversary,

Starting point is 00:07:14 and we're targeting new users by adding matching questions, which is how we connect people on our app about what's top of mind for Gen Z and millennial daters from climate change to politics to reproductive rights to social justice. And nearly half of our daters are currently under 30 years old. So our marketing and positioning are working. That's how we really stay timely and culturally relevant and top of mind and use our product to bring in a new demographic. And Archer, in my opinion,

Starting point is 00:07:52 is going to really revolutionize dating. It was created today for today's daters, specifically gay, bisexual, and queer men. We really listen to the community, to every single one of their pain points when it came to online dating. And there's always pain points when it comes to online dating. And we created an app that will hopefully solve all their needs and only continue to evolve. So for example, catfishing came up a lot. So on Archer, every single profile is selfie verified. We also heard

Starting point is 00:08:27 that queer men were using dating apps at every stage of their life, from looking for dates or hookups to friends when they're moving to a new city. So Archer actually provides multiple filters and views. So you get to choose from multiple grid views. You can choose a linear layout. And that's all in place and designed to help users more easily find what they're looking for, because we know what you're looking for at 20, 30, or 40 might be different. And what you're looking for on a Wednesday morning might be a little bit different than what you're looking for on a Saturday night. Yeah. And it sounds like what is kind of the theme here, which seems to be

Starting point is 00:09:06 a trend for 2024. I think it was a trend in the past as well, but personalization is so important for just creating a unique experience for each individual person utilizing your product or service. And so on that too, how important is just research? I mean, you mentioned a couple of times you've listened to everyone using the application, just pay attention to what they want. And so for brands looking to create this experience that really meets the need of the consumers, what would you say about the importance of research and why that really goes into play when building a marketing experience or even just a brand experience overall? I think it's a mix of trusting the data and your gut. And there's always going to have to be that healthy balance. I wouldn't lean on one over the other, but we are a very data

Starting point is 00:09:57 driven brand here. So I mentioned earlier our matching question. So that's how we connect people. There are thousands of questions in our app on OkCupid. They've actually been answered 10 billion times since we've launched. So we're using data to inspire new product features, marketing campaigns, all the way down to the actual creative that you might see on a subway here in New York or the Bard in San Francisco. That creative was made because of a data point that we found about what our users are interested in, what they're looking for, and really who they are. And we're starting to take a very data driven approach to Archer as well,

Starting point is 00:10:40 looking at who's coming into the app, what they're looking for and what the trends are showing us. And that's helping us build our product roadmap. It's helping us come up with ideas for partnerships or maybe a brand campaign this year or in the future. So we lean on data a lot here for both brands, but really across the MatchBoo portfolio, in my opinion. But there's definitely that element of trusting your gut as well. I mean, we're all human. So I would say we're also listening to what we feel right, we feel is right. And, you know, we're listening to our hearts and our mind. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that balance. I

Starting point is 00:11:22 don't think we talk about that enough, but ultimately, you know, you know, your brand best out of anyone I think leadership comes from both title based roles, as well as just being able to step up even in an entry level position or so. And standing out as a leader, how do you feel you can develop those skills in marketing? For me, it's about understanding that there's no universal way of leading or managing that's going to actually work for every single person or team. I think people really need tailored approaches. We all have different needs. We have different levels of support that we desire. So for me, it's our job, whether we are managing an external agency or an internal team to really create an environment where people can feel supported and thrive. And I would say you know the bottom line is to really listen to what people are saying they need from you what I might need from my former CMO or my CEO is going to be very different than someone else on my team. And what my comms agency in Israel needs is maybe a little bit different than what my creative agency

Starting point is 00:12:53 in the US needs. So it's really about listening and having an open dialogue and tailoring that your approach. 100% active listening and empathetic listening are always what we hear when we ask that question of what makes a great leader in any sense of the word, whether you're in marketing or just in your own life practicing leadership. So I love that. Thank you for that. Okay. Switching gears just a little bit because Valentine's Day is coming up very, very soon here. We have to ask, are there any fun Valentine's themed PR plays or brand campaigns that you've been a part of at Match Group? Yeah. So everyone thinks that Valentine's Day is our Super Bowl. So the question comes up a lot. I would say you'd be surprised at how quiet some dating apps tend to

Starting point is 00:13:41 be around this time, but there was something that we did at OkCupid. We did it both in 2021 and 2022 that I absolutely loved and it was so incredible to be part of. So OkCupid released inclusive and honestly not suitable for work Valentine's Day cards. We were trying to think of something that we could do for the people that meet on our app. And we just got really tired of traditional cards. And we wanted all the beautiful, diverse couples that met on OkCupid to really see themselves reflected in something around Valentine's Day. So we created our own set of Valentine's Day cards that were designed by BIPOC and LGBTQ plus artists and reflected of the moment trending themes like mental health, politics, pro-choice, climate change, the list goes on. And we released them

Starting point is 00:14:42 in multiple countries and connected the images with copy that resonated with local communities. So even though you might see the same creative in the United States and Germany and Israel, the actual copy and language on the card tailored by market, matching the conversations that were happening on the ground in in each of those countries. So that was a really fun one for us. And we worked with the agency mechanism on that one. Oh, that is so cool. And I guess it makes sense that dating apps are probably a little bit more quiet around Valentine's Day because people might not want the pressure of like your first date being on Valentine's Day or whatnot. But I love that idea and what you guys did. That's a really, really great thing to do. And I'm wondering too, like, I want to hear your perspective on how other brands could utilize some of those existing holidays like Valentine's day or, or St. Patrick's day or whatever we have coming

Starting point is 00:15:36 up here to generate some PR buzz. You know, have you seen any great examples of that outside of what you're doing at your brands? Yeah, totally. I think holidays can be a really fun way for brands to work on creative partnerships with other brands. I would say they probably are really beneficial from a PR perspective because you have a moment in time to tie these collaborations to, but you can really do this all year long. There's a couple of brands that I'm really excited by right now. And I would say their collaborations and their partnerships are not married to a specific moment. I just noticed when I said married that I say a lot of dating relationship puns, but comes with the territory, I guess. I'm loving everything that Walmart has been doing. So big kudos to their CMO, William White,

Starting point is 00:16:28 and their entire team. They recently partnered with Daryl Brown on a streetwear collection inspired by planting seeds and growing flowers. I thought that was really fun for the brand. It felt new, but it also felt authentic because it's part of an initiative that Walmart has launched in the past. So that's a really fun one. And, you know, I obviously loved all the Mean Girls work that Walmart did and really balanced the needs of both brands was a partnership that I just read about between Delta and Spotify.

Starting point is 00:17:17 And they actually, they recently announced the Passport Sessions. the passport sessions. So what this is, is it's a docu series that's airing exclusively on Delta's in flight entertainment system. But it's where two artists will travel from their home city to another city that has a similar or shared culture and the four of these artists will actually create music together. And I think it's such a great partnership in my mind. There's the connection with flight and travel with Delta, obviously Spotify's mission of uplifting new artists and emerging artists. And I thought it was a really fun partnership to see. Oh, yeah. So good. And a lot of those partnerships you mentioned are just very seamless and you can see the synergy between the brands and you mentioned

Starting point is 00:18:09 mean girls. So I have to ask you really quick about this. Speaking of authentic collaborations, right? I don't know if you saw the new mean girls movie yet, but, um, I know there's a lot of talk right now about, uh, the inclusion of elf cosmetics in the movie. And so essentially those product placements were very obvious. It was very called out by the actors during the film. And I think a lot of marketers are kind of having these conversations about authentic product placements, authentic collaborations, and how nowadays consumers do not want something that is so in your face. So I'm curious if you have any tips for just making sure that collaborations are very true to both audience, they make sense, and they're kind of authentic and organic in a way without making it

Starting point is 00:18:58 too over the top, if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. So I haven't seen the new movie yet, and I'm someone who's not into spoilers. So I refuse to read or watch anything about it. What I will say though, about, you know, your question specifically, and this is something I pose to our agencies all the time is if you cannot sum up your idea in one sentence, I'm personally not going to move forward with it. And I think that goes for collaborations as well. If you have this really big, grand creative idea, but you two can't meet and summarize it in one sentence, it's too complicated. You're not going to be able to distill that message for a pitch. I think because my background is in public relations, I always think about earned media and how am I going to get a journalist to be interested in my story in a

Starting point is 00:19:50 couple sentences. So for me, if you really can't summarize the why and what of the partnership in one sentence, it's just too complicated for me. It's not something I'm interested in doing. To your point, it needs to be seamless. And if you're struggling to explain it, you're going to have a really hard time explaining why people should be excited about it. Yeah, for sure. Thank you for that. Yeah. Overall, love the movie. I mean, I love musicals and I love Elf too. It's just an interesting conversation happening right now in marketing. So I thought I would ask about that. But pivoting a little bit. So you wrote a piece for PR Weekly, which is amazing, by the way. So congrats on that. But about the five strategy essentials to keep in mind during your brand's first 100 days. So

Starting point is 00:20:36 we're definitely going to link that article below, but would love a little bit of insight or a couple of tips pulled out from that uh that you shared on in the article yeah absolutely so i have a really great relationship with with pr week it's actually a magazine that i've been reading since i was in college and one of the reasons why i wanted to get into this industry was their editorial coverage of the space so big shout out for them but um you know archer is the first brand the first new, the first startup that I've personally ever worked on. All of 2023 felt like a go-to-market crash course for me. So a few months after we announced Archer, I decided to write down some of the key learnings, many of which or some of which were tailored to reaching a niche audience. Our demographic

Starting point is 00:21:27 is queer men, so I'm going to remain focused on the more general terms that I think more people can actually use. But some of those tips included, find a way to market to communities and sub-communities. You can't be everything for everyone all the time. I think that's something that a lot of us have to be mindful of. It's a trap we've fallen into in OkCupid as well. So it's something we're always thinking about. Testing and learning is going to lead to flops and it's okay. You'll quickly find what's working and what isn't working. Meet your customers where they are, literally. Gen Z and millennials are all about in-person experiences. So find a way to authentically meet them offline, especially if you're an online brand like we are, we're dating apps,

Starting point is 00:22:19 and meet them in the real world. For Archer, that meant at launch during Pride Month to build brand awareness, I hired street teams and they were going into gay bars all across Brooklyn, Manhattan. They were showing up at Harlem Pride, Manhattan Pride, and really throwing the Archer name in people's faces over and over again, wherever they were. And then lastly, if you're able to, don't do it alone. I would never have survived last year without my agency partners, especially the ones that supported with event management and influencer marketing. And for me, it was really important to hire queer owned agencies. So that was something that when I was given a budget, I wanted to reinvest in the community that we were targeting. So that was something that we've seen over the past few years or so as we've come out of the pandemic era, just continue to thrive. And I think a lot of people were craving that for a long time, connection just with people

Starting point is 00:23:32 in general out in the real world. And I think authentically integrating whatever brand that you have into some of those moments is something that's going to stay with people. They're going to remember you. You're going to be top of mind because they're going to remember that amazing experience that they had where they met a new friend or they got the chance to have a, you know,

Starting point is 00:23:50 a nice coffee or whatever. A lot of those pop-ups that are happening always in New York where Cassie and I are always sending them back and forth. We're like, oh, wish we were there. But I think it's so important to do that, to meet people where they are out in the real world. So I love that you touched on that too.

Starting point is 00:24:06 I'd love to learn a little bit more about your experience as an adjunct instructor and a board member of the Impact Communications Institute. I assume that you're constantly exposed to new ideas about the future of PR and communications in these type of roles. So how do you expect the industry to change in 2024 and beyond? Yeah, I'm going to plug the Impact Communications Institute first, because there's a couple pieces to respond to here. So that, for anyone who's unfamiliar, is a nonprofit that works to educate professional communicators on the discipline of authentic and transparent communications and how it transcends

Starting point is 00:24:47 to positive impact. So I actually did a presentation with this nonprofit a year or so ago about OkCupid's work with Planned Parenthood in support of reproductive health care and reproductive rights for all. And then later on wound up joining the board because I was just in awe of all the incredible work that they're doing. In terms of, and then there's the adjunct piece. So I also teach, I'm a true Capricorn. So I need to be busy every second of the day and week and weekend. So I actually teach at NYU and I started teaching because I have a crippling fear of public speaking. So very early on in my career, I wound up doing a presentation at Fordham and I realized this New York State and wound up teaching at Mercy College in 2018, NYU a couple years later, and I now teach at NYU and UMass Amherst. back and talk about the incredible work that we're doing and that this industry is doing, but also be inspired by the next generation of leaders. I will admit, I use my students

Starting point is 00:26:12 sometimes as a focus group. So they inspire me and I love being with them. But when I think about 2024 and where this industry is heading, both in terms of what I'm seeing brands do and conversations that we're having externally, internally, and listening to Gen Zers. I think there's a few things that really come to mind for me as one artificial intelligence is going to impact every single industry from beauty to dating, hospitality, real estate, travel, everything. I don't think it's going to eliminate most of our jobs, but I think it's going to transform all of our jobs. And I think we're only scratching the surface of what AI can do for us in the communications and marketing space.

Starting point is 00:26:58 For me, we've used AI for years in terms of automation and things on the product side for OkCupid. I actually used AI for PR early 2023. So I decided to use ChatGBT to write our matching questions, added them to OkCupid, and positioned the brand as the first dating app to leverage Chat gbt in a creative and unique way and the launch was covered by business insider entrepreneur fast company mashable i went on nbc news to discuss it and in the first 24 hours after we announced it um we actually experienced the this is in february of 2023 we experienced the most logins okay keepupid had since November the year prior and logins were up 11% from the same day the week prior. And since then, our chat GBT generated questions have been answered over 3 million times. And I call out this case study because I think we need to be reminded

Starting point is 00:28:02 that you should never be afraid to be scrappy. You don't need a million dollar budget to have a successful idea. That was a huge win for me here at OkCupid, and there was no budget behind it at all. So I love using that as a case study. Another trend I'm expecting is we're really going to see the merging of public relations and social media more than we already have. That's already the world I'm in. I manage our social media channels for Archer and OkCupid, but I think on the PR side, we're seeing consumers turning to Instagram and TikTok

Starting point is 00:28:40 for their news. So we really need to be considering and prioritizing these platforms when we're developing our storytelling strategies, the same way we think about social when it comes to a campaign, a campaign announcement. And, you know, we were talking about this before, and you spoke to this, Erica, but there's, I think there's going to be a lot more opportunities for brands and consumers to interact in person. Again, I think Gen Z is craving real life experiences.

Starting point is 00:29:09 Many of them have had a college experience where most of it is virtual and it's online and they're at home. So now that the pandemic is further behind us, I think we're all really eager and excited to be back out there. Oh, such good predictions. Yeah. AI, I think to your point, definitely something not to be afraid of kind of experiment and test. And I love that that turned into an opportunity for you guys just to spread the word even more about the brand and raise

Starting point is 00:29:37 awareness there. So that's huge. Congrats on that. Well, as we close out, Michael, this has been so great. So thank you so much for sharing everything with us. And we're bummed that this episode is coming to an end. But we have to close out with one of our favorite questions one of my colleagues here, Sonia Oblite, who is a senior global director of marketing at Match Group, when you are invited to a meeting, you need to make your voice heard. You're in the room and at the table for a reason. I personally spent so many years as quiet as I could be and only recently have found value in my perspective and my point of view. And I've definitely come to find my voice. So I think, and I think this is something a lot of people can relate to. So I would say that's the lesson I wish I knew when I had first started my career, I would have spoken up a lot more. Yeah, absolutely. I have a little follow-up

Starting point is 00:30:51 question to that. Maybe someone's in the conference room and they're feeling a little bit shy and maybe they have an idea, but they just don't know how to convey or how to share it. What would you say to somebody who's in that position right now? Again, this is going to depend on your personality. For me, I actually know that sometimes being put on the spot makes me really nervous. So I will actually take notes before a meeting. And granted, this only really works when you know the context of the meeting. I used to be terrified of blind brainstorms that some of the agencies I did, that I worked at did. But especially for a brainstorm as well, I would actually brainstorm

Starting point is 00:31:30 independently, write down some of my ideas. Even if I wasn't looking at my notepad or the notes, just knowing that they were there gave me the confidence that I knew what I was talking about. So for me, it's just about preparing ahead of time. And that makes me more confident to speak up in these meetings or these rooms. Love that so much. I'm the same way. Earlier on in my career, whenever I would be invited to the all hands meetings or whatever, I would always take notes before I hand up anything I wanted to say or anything I wanted to bring up, even if I didn't get a chance to do it in that meeting specifically. So same exact experience here. But we are coming to a close, which is like Cassie said, such a bummer, but where can everybody find you follow along with what you're

Starting point is 00:32:13 up to? What OKCupid is up to and Archer? You can find me at Michael KPR on Instagram or Michael K on LinkedIn. You can follow OKCupid on Instagram and TikTok at OKCupid and you can follow Archer at ArcherDating on Instagram and TikTok. Amazing. We will link all of that in the show notes so everyone knows where they can find you. But thank you again for joining us. This has been so good. Thanks so much for having me. Espresso martini soon. Oh, absolutely. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Marketing Happy Hour podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. If you want more of Marketing Happy Hour, but don't know

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Marketing Happy Hour - What Consumers are Craving This Year: Personalization + Intentional Connection | Michael Kaye of OkCupid and ARCHER

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