Marketing Happy Hour - Why You Should Be Customer-Obsessed as a Brand Marketer | Paige McCloud of Victoria’s Secret

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

What does it really mean to be customer-obsessed in today’s ever-evolving brand landscape? In this episode, I sit down with Paige McCloud, Manager of Brand Strategy at Victoria’s Secret, to unpack how she builds consumer-first marketing strategies that blend data, creativity, and real-world experiences. From navigating experiential marketing to tracking emerging trends like AI and creator-led campaigns, Paige shares how she’s shaping the future of retail storytelling—while offering practical advice for marketers looking to evolve their careers and deepen their connection with their audience.Key Takeaways:// What it really means to be customer-obsessed—and how to build that mindset into your brand’s DNA// The evolving role of experiential and in-person activations in retail marketing// Skills marketers need to execute memorable IRL brand experiences// Common traps brands fall into when trying (and failing) to be consumer-first// Strategies to stay inspired and avoid burnout as a brand leader in a fast-paced industryConnect with Paige: LinkedIn____Say hi! DM me on Instagram and let us know what content you want to hear on the show - I can't wait to hear from you! Please also consider rating the show and leaving a review, as that helps us tremendously as we move forward in this Marketing Happy Hour journey and create more content for all of you. ⁠Join our FREE Open Jobs group on LinkedIn: ⁠Join now⁠Get the latest from MHH, straight to your inbox: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our email list!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow MHH on Social: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

As marketers and as brands, we get so laser focused on a specific generation that we want to speak to, but we forget that the buying power is shifting so frequently. Where is Gen Z spending their dollars? They're aging up. How are they influencing the wallets of their parents who are millennials in Gen Z's? What can we do to pivot our strategies and our approaches to be talking to these customers as our older customers are aging out? How do we think about bringing new customers in?

Welcome to Marketing Happy Hour. I'm Cassie, consultant, podcaster, and your host. Every Thursday, you'll hear episodes packed with insights from brand leaders on an array of topics from crafting effective marketing strategies and hitting career goals to building leadership skills and launching your own business. Inspired by those unfiltered happy hour combos with peers, this show is all about practical empowering chats to support your professional journey. So grab your favorite drink and let's get to the episode. I am super stoked to have Paige McLeod with me today. Paige is the manager of brand strategy for Victoria's Secret, a classic brand that I

know and love very well. So stoked to have you, Paige. Welcome to the show. Thank you. So excited to be here. Absolutely. We haven't had anyone from your brand on the show before and it. So excited to be here. Absolutely. We haven't had anyone from your brand on the show before and it's been on my wishlist. So when you reached out,

I was like, this is perfect. Yes. Yeah. It's such a, like I mentioned, it's such a legacy brand and it's, it's evolved so much. Right. And obviously, you know that because you work with the brand. And so I'm really just excited to hear all about your personal journey and just what the brand looks like today, but also your personal marketing strategies and things that you're thinking about in your role. But before we dive into that, I have to ask what has been in your glass lately?

Yeah, so I've been really obsessed with London Fog lattes. You can get them at Starbucks. They're delicious. They might be a little off the beaten path and might sound a little odd, but it's an Earl Grey tea with whatever your milk of choice is and vanilla flavoring. Again, like sounds super odd, but it is so delicious. Yeah. I'm just so hot. I've been really into them lately. It's like the only thing I've been getting. Yes. I can confirm they're delicious. I'm a huge fan of tea. I love tea with milk in it.

Very British of us to do that. But it's so good, like you said. So definitely try it, please, if you haven't had it. They're delicious. Yes, absolutely. Well, Paige, I would just love to know your journey. What is your story? How did you land at Victoria's Secret? Yeah, my journey, I'm so grateful. I've had, you know, a really exciting experience where I've kind of, I like

to say, like had the retail gambit in Columbus, so to speak. But I started my journey here in Columbus where I attended Ohio State University. I joined college thinking I love data. I love numbers. I'm going to study accounting. I took a few accounting classes and said, absolutely not. This is in no way, you know, right for me. All the power to all the accountants out there, just, you know, not my forte, but I like, I was like, you know, I really, I really still love numbers.

Maybe there's this world where I want to study statistics because I had taken a stats class and I really enjoyed it. I did really well in it. So I changed my degree to actuarial science, which for those that don't know, it's like a very in-depth mathematical degree focused on statistics and business. Fascinating. Again, took a few classes and came to this realization, I don't think this is right for me. And I took a hard look at, okay, well, what do I like? What am I doing with myself? And I was like, I

really love fashion. I've always really loved apparel. So I was like, maybe I can study that. I think maybe I do that as my minor. What is this whole communications thing my friends are doing? I wanted to check that out. So I took some summer courses. My honestly at that point, it was like the end of my sophomore year going into my junior year and I changed my major for the third time and just fell in love with my comms major and my fashion retail study. So I graduated with that degree and I hadn't always known I wanted to go into retail. But it being a very competitive landscape, you know, I recognize that. So I had some really amazing opportunity prior to working in retail where I worked for a children's magazine my first year out of college. And it was just such an amazing experience. The team was so smart and they really offered me tons of opportunities to really dive in and learn marketing and, you know, get my

hands wet, do email and insights and data. And it was just phenomenal, but I was so craving retail. And I honestly, I feel like I kind of lucked into my, my first retail job, which was at Victoria's Secret. Like, yes, I'm a boomerang. I started there. I left and I came back. Um, that I, I was offered this amazing opportunity to join their paid media

team as an analyst and like, truth be told, I didn't even know what paid media was. I was like, oh, I got this awesome job. I'm working for Victoria's secret. I'm doing paid media. Like, what is that? I have no idea. Um, but it was a great first role because of that data mathematical background. Paid media is so data driven, so numbers driven.

It was a very easy forte for me into the marketing space. Um, after I spent some time with VS, my first go around, I had an awesome opportunity to join DSW designer shoe warehouse here in Columbus, where I joined their paid media team, did that for a little while and had this really, you know, insightful look at my career path and what I wanted to do and made a shift over to brand strategy and was so grateful for my leaders and the team at DSW to allow me to do that. After that, I went to Abercrombie where I spent some time on brand strategy as their manager, brand strategy for their Hollister and Gilly Hicks brands.

Again, like I said, retail gambit here in Columbus, I was really popping around. That at my time at Abercrombie is where I really found my passion for customer centricity. They just did such a fantastic job of understanding who their customer is. And I was like, wow, I love knowing more about the customer. I loved taking those insights and figuring out

what that means and how we translate it. And after spending some time at EpicCurrentB, I had the really amazing great fortune of coming back to Victoria's Secret, which is where I am now. I spent some time the second girl round on our third party business, working on marketing for that team.

And now most recently, like you said, I'm on the brand strategy, specifically I'm leading the beauty business, which has been such an amazing journey. My background is completely in apparel, so learning a whole new vertical has been exciting and fun and learning how that customer operates and thinks and just really a new challenge for myself.

Yeah, and I always love these shifts that some of our guests make, these small pivots throughout their career where there's still a lot of similarities to past roles, but it's grasping what do I really enjoy and kind of making that brief shift there. So I'm curious too, like your initial move from paid into brand strategy,

you mentioned it being a very customer focused decision is that kind of what sparked that initial jump or did you learn that you loved customer insights a little bit after that I'm just curious like what was the inspiration be behind making that initial shift there? I think the inspiration honestly it kind of goes back to the same questions I was asking myself when I was in college and taking all the data, mathematics classes, well it's it's something I'm really passionate about and I love you know I was very early in my career and I was looking at my manager and I was looking at the director and all these you know

really admirable leaders in the business and I was saying okay if my career grows to that height would I want their job? And I had this realization, like, I don't think I would. I love the data, I love the insights, but I don't think I'd want to do that, what they're doing. And I really felt like I was missing and craving the creative aspect of marketing and, you know, how do we get a little bit more fun and exciting? Not that paid is fun and exciting, but it was just so driven, right?

And again, like it was kind of the same question where I was like, I don't even know if I really knew what brand strategy was, but DSW had this opening. And I said, I think the team is really connected to the product and it looks like they're doing some more creative type of storytelling and thinking. And can I try that? And I just fell in love. And the, the customer piece definitely came after when I got into the brand strategy side of the world and started to understand how that operates a little bit more in depth, saying, okay, it's not just I'm doing this really fun story.

It's not just we have this really beautiful product. It's also, well, what does our customer want? And how are we serving that to him or her in a meaningful way? Yeah, oh, I love that. And I love these little questions of curiosity, of just sparking interest in something and saying, you know, maybe I could try this. And then also, I love what you just said

about asking yourself, looking at your leader and saying, is this something I would wanna do? Like looking at their role. I think that's so important just to be paying attention to the people in charge of you. Is that a role you'd eventually want to move into? And if the answer is no, then that's probably a sign you may need to make one of those slight pivots, right?

So that's, I love that. I have not heard that before. So thank you for sharing. I'll be too. Well, so you already mentioned this obsession with the customer and meeting a need and providing something to them that they'll love. And so how do you bring that mindset now into every brand initiative that you're touching?

Yeah, I mean, it's actually funny. I am going to reference a TikTok that I saw the other day, which is like whatever that means, right? And it was funny, it was this TikTok about what makes someone a good spy, which I was like, okay, that's interesting. But what are marketers, if not spies, right? Trying to see the customer behind a closed door and what they're actually doing. But the way that the person who is talking was bringing it up is how do you understand

the difference between perception and perspective? And I was like, yes, that's exactly right. Like taking a seat in the consumer's mindset and looking at it through their lens. I think a lot of times it's really easy for us to get lost in ourselves as marketers. We're constantly thinking of like, what's my perception of what the customer thinks? What am I perceiving important to them? What does this actually mean? But I think we actually need to take a step back and say, well, okay, that's my perception. What is their perspective?

And how are they actually seeing those things? So really leaning in, right? And thinking about what are the data and insights that point you to what the customer is showing you. And I think that can be something super qualitative. Like we have all this data insight within the business. This is how they're shopping. This is where they're spending their dollars. We can actually see that. Versus a qualitative insight where something's trending on TikTok.

Again, I just use it as an example. Like that's where people are all ages. What are they doing? What's exciting to them? We need to look at the macro environment, right? But again, it's really about shifting that mindset, which can be really challenging. We get so caught up in our own thought process every day, like I'm guilty of it, right? But being able to take a step back

and really think through the lens of what do they want and being able to serve them that, right? Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of times to your point, we're just a little too close to what we're working on. And a lot of times it just takes a couple conversations or some research or whatever, serving our audience to just make that little shift

that we need in order for a message or a campaign or whatever to be effective. So that's always an important reminder really to any marketer, even if you're outside of the brand marketing space, it's what is the customer needing? What are they looking for? How do we communicate to them effectively? And it's just something we need to always be doing. I feel like it could be something too, as simple as just getting out there and asking your customer, if you're not at a business or brand that has a large retail footprint,

go where your customer is, right? Like whether it's a mall or a restaurant or whatnot, and take a moment to stop them and ask them, well, what are you doing? Why are you doing it? What motivated you to do it? Um, and start sourcing that data. I think, you know, as someone who's been in retail quite a, quite a long time, try to do that by getting into the stores, right? And what's my customer doing?

Where is she shopping? Like, you know, talking to my store associates, what are you seeing the customer is doing? What are they voting on? What are the things they're enjoying? So it doesn't have to be a massive lift. I think it could be truly as simple as just asking people you know or posing the question out on Instagram or Facebook. Like have people see what you can get. Yeah, absolutely. So I want to pivot a little bit to experiential.

This is obviously a hot topic in the world of marketing. It has been for a little bit. So what role do IRL activations play in your overall marketing mix strategy today? I mean, it's such a fascinating question. And I think experiential can play a multitude of roles in your mix. But ultimately, at the end of the day, it's really going to come down to what are you trying to achieve? And what are your goals as a business and brand? And then back to what we were just talking about, what is your customer looking for?

Right? Like, what can we serve up through this activation? And I think it can go so much beyond just what you're seeing out there on LinkedIn, right? Oh my gosh, someone did this trendy pop-up. It's the trendy pop-up, trendy pop-up, trendy pop-up, right? There's so much beyond that in experiential on ways that you can activate your customer in a tangible experience. I mean, I think a really great example, right, is if you're a DTC-only brand, you have to

start thinking about, okay, how am I delivering product or my goods to this person in a very tactile world? If I'm only online, unless this person purchases, they have no way to experience my service or my good, and they're not going to purchase unless they have that trust and that credibility. So what can I do to serve them something firsthand and really develop that relationship with them? Again, like whether that's a trendy, trendy pop-up or it's me just like walking around on the streets and saying, hey, have you tried this?

Have you experienced this product? Have you experienced this service or good? Um, it's just thinking about different ways that you're getting the product in the hands of the customer. Again, it doesn't have to be like a pop-up experience as well as in real life experiences and activations delivering benefit to brands that don't have a tangible in-person footprint. I think it also does, you know, support brands that do have footprints as well.

And it can be excellent traffic drivers, right? Like you can think about experiential as traffic drivers to your stores. What can you do in your store to activate with your customer to come in? I think in this world where brand loyalty is waning more and more and customers are less loyal to you, can you use this as a way to drive them into your store, develop that sense of community, provide them something a little bit incremental on top of your product that shows them like, I get you, you're part of this. We want you to be part of this. We want you to experience the brand with us beyond you just coming in and voting with

your dollars. Like we can give you something a little bit extra. I think you see some brands doing some really fun things in their stores, just, you know, finding unique ways to differentiate in the marketplace. And then, of course, too, like there is the trendy trendy pop-up, right? There is this really like unique and fun idea of driving brand awareness, no matter the size of your brand or the footprint, creating these like really bespoke emotional moments that stand out, whether it's like to a customer

that already knows you or someone who doesn't, when you're walking by and you see something and go, oh my God, that is like the coolest thing I've ever seen. It has that social virality moment to it. It's gonna drive the massive awareness and earn media value for you. But again, it all goes back to, what are we trying to do? Do I need that awareness?

Do I need that earned media value? Am I trying to give someone product to try? Is my goal sampling and I just want to get a million units of my product out there? I think there's so many different ways that you can activate a customer in an in real life tangible way outside of like the one that's always face value. I pop up there's there's a million different things we could do. That's another good reminder of just thinking about it outside of the scope of the pop ups that we're seeing to I know that's something experiential is being noticed that noted as

so much today but you're right like even just thinking about that general in-store experience or somewhere where the consumer is touching and feeling your product. And I want to hear, too, you've touched on a couple of different skill sets or mindsets that marketers should have when approaching those IRL experiences. Being customer-centric, having that strategic brain

of thinking about what is our goal with this experience. But is there anything else that you'd say just skill set wise that marketers should be developing or that you would say should have in order to step into a role managing those kind of experiences? That's a great question. I mean, I think you definitely hit on a lot of them. Obviously, the customer centricity piece of it, understanding of business goals and your objectives and what you're trying to achieve. I think there's also this innate layer of understanding cultural relevance as well.

I think a really good example is in the scheme of IRL and pop-ups we've been seeing lately in the marketplace, cafe is trending right, like food. Whether that's like a brand opening up a cafe or food or even sensorial marketing where you're seeing brands aligning their product to food to create that emotional experience. So how do you tap into some of those marketplace trends

to drive relevance? And then at a more personal detailed level, I think it's just agility, flexibility, right? I guess one in the same, but there's a lot of need to be able to pivot quickly when you're creating in real life activations and of course like attention to detail and you know I've learned with so many great folks that I've worked with on experiential marketing. I learned from each person I work with who everyone brings a different unique mindset to these that, right, there's these little things that I would have never thought about.

I remember at Abercrombie when I was working on in-store events with Billy Hicks, one of my coworkers was managing one of the events and she was like, oh my gosh, we should do branded napkins. I was like, oh my God, branded napkins, like, duh. Why didn't I think of that? And it's something as small as that, but being really in tune and attention to detail. And then listening to the folks around you too.

Like I said, I learned something every day from my peers and it makes me a better marketer for it. Now when I'm doing events, I remember to think about the branded napkins. Yes, yeah. I have kind of an interesting question for you just on this notion too of being customer first and customer centric.

What are some common mistakes that brands make when they think they're being customer first, but they're actually not? Yeah, I don't know if it's necessarily a mistake, right? I think it goes back to what we were talking about earlier around like how do you manage against perception and perspective and it's getting lost in our own mindset a bit too much and just not being able to see through the trees so to speak.

And I think it's just more so how do you continue to focus on the customer, really think about that. And I also think it's grounding yourself in the data too. You know, brand marketing, consumer marketing, it's as much of an art as it is a science. Trusting your gut instinct as a marketer and what you know and using that against the data that you have as well. So just really trying to take all of your knowledge from everywhere it's coming from. But again, like I don't know if there's any true mistakes and there's never really a mistake in marketing, right?

We always learn from, we try things and we learn from them. So we pivot and we get better. But it just really goes back to what does she need or he need, they need, what does the customer need? And how do we serve that in a meaningful way and let's stop assuming or taking what we think is right and actually ask them. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then to, you know, are there any strategies or trends in branding or consumer behavior that marketers are maybe underestimating right now, or just something that they should be thinking about more? I mean, I know we've talked a little bit about this already,

but anything as of 2025, we're recording this in May that we should be just considering in our strategies overall. That's a really great question. I think the one thing that really fascinates me is the ecosystem of the consumer landscape specifically as it relates to the millennials, Gen Zs, even Gen Alphas, right? I think as marketers and as brands, we get so laser focused on a specific generation

that we wanna speak to, but we forget that the buying power is shifting so frequently. I mean, just like we think about ourselves, right? Like my buying habits have changed even within the last year, let alone the last five, 10 years. So how do we start to think about the buying habits shifting?

Where is Gen Z spending their dollars? They're aging up. I mean, even Gen Alpha, I think the oldest Gen Alphas now are 10, 15 years old, and how are they influencing the wallets of their parents who are millennials and Gen Zs? What can we do to pivot our strategies and our approaches to be talking to these customers as our older customers are aging out? How do we think about bringing new customers in?

So that's something that is always a top ofmind curiosity for me. And then as well as a retailer who has worked in, you know, traditionally stores and digital brands, I'm always considering the trends on how you start to bridge the digital and physical retail landscapes. I think we've definitely gotten better at it. The world is such a different place, even when I started in marketing 12 years ago where like they were two distinctly different channels.

Now marketing is so much better about thinking of our marketing mix more holistically. But how do we start to think about bringing digital into the physical landscape? We think about yourself, right? We're so connected to our phones. Like I just mentioned TikTok earlier. We're literally on it all the time.

What does that mean when I go into a store now? Like, am I using my phone in store? I'm probably not, but there probably is opportunity to and how can we provide those opportunities and give the customer something really meaningful? And then in a similar vein, like what can you do in your digital space that ties to your physical space? Like if someone can't get into a physical space, is there something we could do digitally to create that experience for them? I think too, just time goes on and technology advances.

There's going to be more and more opportunities to create moments like that. But it's truly fascinating. I think I even have seen on social people walking around with AR glasses. Am I doing that? Absolutely not but like who knows where we're gonna be in 20 years from now. I don't know Maybe people are gonna be walking around with AR glasses. And what does that mean for our digital physical shopping experiences? Just yeah

Yes, absolutely And you've talked a lot about just being aware of what's going on in the company overall, whether it's on online shopping, so keeping tabs on the e commerce team and what they're finding the retail environment. So how important to you is communication internally, cross functionally within different departments departments and how are you maintaining slash building those relationships internally? So you are aware of what's happening all across the board and you're able to pull those insights, but also you've built this relationship with your team where that's kind of easy to share and to collaborate. Such a great question and it's definitely a skillset

I think that takes time to hone in on. I remember being early in my career and being in a meeting where my manager was speaking to business and she was talking margins and all these KPIs I didn't understand are related back to retail. And I was like, I need to take a step back because I have no clue what's going on. And I had an honest conversation with her and I said, like, hey, I would really like to understand what you're saying in these meetings. Like, how can I do that? And she had a really great advice for me where she said, well, why don't we find mentors for you across the business where you can meet with them on a specific cadence and they

can inform you on how their business operates and the things that they look at. And quite honestly, it was one of the most beneficial things that I had done in my career. I had worked with a merchant who became a merchant mentor of mine, and I was also hooked up with someone on finance who became a finance mentor of mine. And I was able to sit with them. I think I met them on a monthly cadence, and they literally would print out their reports for me and be like, this is the report I'm looking at.

These are the KPIs I'm reading, and this is what it means. That alone, in and of itself, just was so helpful that I was able to be more informed when I sat in on business meetings, right? And like say, okay, I understand what my peers are talking about. And I think that helps with your communication because if you can understand someone, right, it might not be at the level in which they understand it, but you understand it enough to be dangerous. You can have meaningful conversation. Hey, I hear you. You know, your margin is suffering. What can I do to support you? Are there things we can do? Can we scale back on offers? Can we talk about certain things in the marketing mix, right? Or, hey,

finance, I hear you. We're missing budget or we're super exceeding budget. Like, now what does that mean to my marketing strategies and how I start to pivot? And just being able to like have those thoughtful conversations. So I always highly recommend if there's things you don't understand, don't be afraid to ask. I am a big believer of curiosity mindset. There's no such thing as a dumb question truly and find those mentors. And if you're too afraid to ask someone, like I'm sure someone's like manager or leader can help facilitate that for you, which was what I did.

I had my manager facilitate that for me and set it up. But then once you get more comfortable with asking those questions, I think natural relationships become a bit easier because you recognize, okay, there's things I need to understand, so I can't hold back. I have to reach out to my digital and e-commerce partners

and I have to create that relationship, specifically in brand strategy as well, where you become the centralized point of view sometimes for a brand or a business, it's really important to understand what your peers are doing and being able to provide the relevant information for them so they can do their jobs better too, right? Like, if I do my job well, that means you're doing your job well, vice versa. So we want the business to succeed. So again, like I said, it's a skillset

that takes time to hone in on. It's something you have to actively force yourself to do and maybe get out of your comfort zone a little bit and say, okay, like I'm not comfortable with this but I have to do it. I'm gonna set up touch bases with these teams and we're gonna talk and we're gonna meet and I'm gonna come prepared with questions.

Even if I think they're dumb questions, I promise you they're not. Like just push yourself to do the uncomfortable. And you know, I think people really appreciate that. And a lot of it too, I talk to especially younger professionals who are building this confidence for speaking up, asking questions, even presenting ideas. You know, sometimes you just have to kind of throw yourself into the deep end and just do it. And it's scary, but the more that you push yourself in those areas where you're not as confident or comfortable, that's how that confidence grows. Do you have any other tips or encouragement for younger professionals who are a little bit hesitant to speak up or they don't feel like they're able to speak up? I've heard that a

little bit too, which makes me really sad, but I think a lot of times It's just even having that permission to be able to do that. But yeah any any encouragement there? I I feel that I so feel that cuz I've done been there before where I've been in a meeting and I'm like, oh my god I'm entry-level this room is full of managers directors. I there's no way I can speak I would say trust your gut and speak but if you truly feel like you can't Certainly approach your manager and leader and raise your hand and say, you know, I'm interested in having more visibility with leaders I'd like to present more I'd like more opportunity to do this if there's one thing I've learned about growth and development is that you truly have to own it for yourself and Not to be afraid to ask.

Like we're our best number one advocate. I'm going to be the person who can best advocate for myself and my career and that's just always how it's going to be. I'm always going to have amazing leaders. I've had amazing leaders who have also advocated for me, but they advocate for me because I advocate for myself first and I say, hey, I'm really interested. I want this. So don't be afraid to ask on a one-on-one basis if it's not something we can do in a larger setting.

And just raise your hand, ask questions. And again, one-on-one setting, it's really hard. You really have to push yourself out of the comfort zone. The other thing too that I always find really helpful when I feel like I have an idea or something I want to bring to the table is it goes back to my data brain. I really try to ground my thinking in a data or an insight point of view so that it feels like when I'm bringing to the table it feels meaningful and relevant and it's not something that's just, oh this will willy nilly, right?

Out of the blue idea. It's like, oh, hey, I heard you say this. I read this article that said that actually beauty shoppers are shopping on TikTok, like, oh, cool. Like, how do we use that? Right. Like, I think there's all sorts of ways that you can leverage insights, whether it's an industry related, business related to help give you the confidence to present because then you're coming to the table with something that feels tangible to the people

you're presenting to. Yeah, absolutely. And just kind of another career-centric question for you. Our industry is so fast moving. There's changes every single day. There's so many different areas that we have to stay attuned to, pay attention to, speaking to our consumers, reading the data, etc. How are you just keeping up with everything? Are there certain resources that you're paying attention to? Are you prioritizing learning on

your own? And then how with that too are you avoiding or trying to navigate your piece per se as we are managing this fast-paced environment? Yeah, that's such a good question and it really is a fast-paced environment. I think firstly though, it's helped to understand why we're fast-paced. Again, it's probably exhausting hearing me talk about the customer at this point, but again, the ecosystem we live in is fast paced because our consumer is fast paced. They're changing their minds on the daily and to be able to serve them, we need to be

able to operate in a way that gives them what they need when they need it, especially in the digital world, which is, as we all know, like it's on demand. So how do we pivot very quickly? So I think that in and of itself, just like setting up your frame of mind to say like, this is why it's happening is helpful. But for me, it can be hard to prioritize your time. We're all really busy during the day to day managing our jobs and making sure we're getting things done.

I really, as best as I can, I really like to try and carve out time, whether it's in the mornings or even just an hour on Fridays to read through industry articles and insights. I highly recommend finding the ones that you gravitate towards. I think there's the obvious, like the ad age and the ad weeks of the world. For me, because I'm in retail, I really love NRF, the National Retail Foundation, being able to read that. And then simply TikTok, Instagram, really great Foundation, like being able to read that. And then simply like TikTok, Instagram,

like really great resources to see what other brands are doing. Follow your competitors, follow brands that you find interesting outside of your vertical. There are really great brands across all industries doing really interesting and exciting things so you can find inspiration anywhere, truly.

So really just staying on top and social. And I think it's also about approaching your day with an abundance mindset. I had a leader say that recently and I really liked it. And I'm taking that to heart and I am trying to translate that into everything we do is an abundance mindset. With all the change and agility, it brings good things, right?

We have a new project coming in now. Let's stay curious and let's get excited about it. Okay, things shifted, but what's the benefit coming out of it? We're going to be able to pivot and do something really different and unique now where we're serving up a new product to the customer. So really trying to find and pull out, you know, the positives. And sometimes when your day is feeling just absolutely wild, be like, okay, wait, no, there's all good coming from these crazy shifts.

Then I'm realizing your time after work, right? Log off at five. I'm a big proponent in that. We got it, we have to protect our personal hours. Log off, close your computer. It's so hard if you work from home. I know it is, but really try to. You're off when you're off.

It was so much easier when we were in the office because you would leave the office and you'd be done We don't have the luxury of that anymore. So you really have to force yourself to do it Yeah. Oh my gosh such good advice amazing. I mean this whole episode has just been absolutely wonderful I feel like I have a million other questions for you. So I'll have to have you back. So stay Yeah, no pages has seriously been awesome. Again, thank you so much. I would love for everyone to have the opportunity to follow you along personally online and then also let us know where we can follow Victoria's Secret.

I know it's pretty self-explanatory, but what are some channels that you'd love to call out right now? Definitely make sure you're following VS on Instagram and TikTok. Get some great social content. Go to our website. We have a beautiful product right now across all of our categories. Bras, swim, apparel, sleep, beauty, hint, hint, because I'm on the beauty team so I have to hint at it. Amazing fragrances. The product really is wonderful and the social content is top notch, really beautiful and

fun. So I highly recommend following along there. If you want to follow along with me, I'm on LinkedIn. You could follow me on social. I don't know you're going to get a ton of great branded content. I am not a social first girly, but you're more than welcome to find me there too. That's totally fine. Isn't that funny how we personally just don't really care that much sometimes.

I think it's totally fine. We put all of our energy into our work. It's cool. We love it. I love it. Paige, thank you so much again. Really appreciate you being here today. Of course. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It was a blast. Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, I would love your feedback. And if you're ready to take things to the next level, sign up for my weekly newsletter in the show notes. You'll get weekly career and marketing insights straight to your inbox. And if you have an idea for a future marketing happy hour episode, shoot me an email. Hello at marketinghappyhr.com.

Thank you again, and I'll see you next Thursday.