Marketing Secrets with Russell Brunson - 2x Your Business Coaching Session with Ali Abdaal

Episode Date: September 25, 2024

When was the last time you got to be a fly on the wall for a live coaching session? Ali Abdaal recently interviewed me for his podcast & YouTube channel where I dive into a powerful business coaching session for his business! In this unique and public coaching session, we explore the complexities of scaling a $5 million business to $10 million while detaching the revenue stream from the founder's direct involvement. This conversation delves deep into the balance of leveraging personal branding for growth and making your business self-sustaining by building strong value ladders and evergreen strategies. Throughout the session, Ali and I tackle the challenge of turning sporadic launches into consistent revenue streams without losing personal freedom. We explore how to take successful live launches and transition them into evergreen funnels that can continuously bring in sales. You'll hear my take on solving "math problems" (like optimizing funnels and conversion rates) versus "drama problems" (psychological barriers that prevent scaling), and why getting clarity on these distinctions can unlock exponential growth. Key Highlights: Transitioning from live cohorts to evergreen courses: Best practices to maintain high engagement and profitability. The power of a well-structured value ladder: Offering high-value courses and coaching without burnout. Scaling from $5 million to $10 million: Strategies to double revenue while reducing direct involvement. Math vs. Drama: How solving psychological barriers can accelerate business growth. Creating effective ads and webinars: Tactics for converting organic and paid traffic. Tune in to gain insights on creating a scalable business that frees up your time while continuing to grow your revenue! Don't forget to check out this awesome deal from Mint Mobile! https://mintmobile.com/funnels And if you want to enjoy the Marketing Secrets Show ad-free, check out https://marketingsecrets.com/adfree Get 70% off on Welch Equities' retail price at wealthyconsultant.com/secrets And if you're interested in joining my Inner Circle, check it out here: https://innercircleforlife.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. So I first came to Edward Jones with a great deal of trepidation when I first met with my advisor, and I really was feeling vulnerable about what I would have to share. I was, of course, pleasantly surprised to find that there was absolutely no judgment and a lot of support.

And when it was time to get serious, he really took my hand and helped me to do that. Edward Jones. We do money differently. Visit edwardjones.ca slash different. Hey, good morning, everybody. This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast.

I hope you guys are doing amazing today. I got something really cool for you. So a couple, almost probably two months ago or so, there's a YouTuber who I follow, who I look up to, who I love his stuff. His name is Ali Abdaal, and he came to Boise, Idaho to speak at the ConvertKit event, which is kind of funny because you look at ConvertKit and ClickFunnels are both out of Boise, Idaho, two great tech companies doing amazing things. And anyway, Nathan Berry over at ConvertKit does his, and they just changed their name to Kit. I think it's Kit.com now. Anyway, he does his big events here in Boise, Idaho and brings in amazing speakers. So once or twice a year, we get a handful of rock stars show up to Boise to come and speak. And I saw on his lineup

that Ollie was coming to speak and I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. So we messaged him and asked if, uh, if he'd be, if we want to hang out, we can get to know each other a little bit. And luckily for me, he knew who I was. He bought my stuff in the past. He'd been on my email list for like, he's like 20 years. He's like 14 years old or something crazy. And he also said he always thought I was a scammer, um, which was kind of funny. And then he read Dotcom Secrets, and it changed his life. And he went from making very few dollars to making a very lot of dollars online. And it was really cool. And so we had a chance to hang out. And if you listened a couple episodes ago, probably two months ago now, I did a podcast episode where I was interviewing him about how he grew his YouTube channel and stuff like that. And it was really cool. In fact,

it was an awesome episode. If you want to go deep on YouTube and understanding that world, I'd highly recommend going and, um, going back in the archives and finding the episode, him talking about that. But then, um, uh, after I got done doing the podcast interview with him, then he was like, Hey, can I do a podcast interview for you, uh, with you? And first I was like, sure. I'd love to. And he's like, I want to do like this. We're basically pretend like I just hired you for a hundred thousand dollars. And I want you to coach me through my business to show me what to grow. I was like, ah, you are very smart. So he flipped it into a consult call where basically I had a chance to sit with him and just kind of consult him on his business, look what he was doing and, uh, show him how to grow and scale it beyond where

he's at right now. I think he said, I can't remember top of my head now. I think it was five, five or $6 million a year and wanted to know how to get get to $10, $20, $30 million a year. That was the context of the conversation. It was awesome and we had a lot of fun. Anyway, that's what this episode is going to be. We're going to show you guys the behind the scenes of the consultation with Ali Abdaal, showing him how to take his info product business and scale it. I hope you enjoy it.

It's a really fun one. Before I kick you guys into the episode, just one other note. As you guys know, I have my inner circle, which is my high-end coaching and mastermind group. And that's one of my favorite things I do in this business. And we meet together a couple times a year. We mastermind. We have 100 entrepreneurs in it at any given time. And it's amazing.

Now, one really cool thing about the inner circle is, um, when I first launched the inner circle back in the day, I facilitated all of the mastermind sessions over the last three years. I haven't, I've got facilitators who facilitate, but I miss doing it. So this, um, this session, I'm actually personally facilitating all the inner circle mastermind groups, which are starting in like three weeks from now. And we have inner circles almost sold out. There's a handful of spots left. And so if you are someone who has done over a million dollars in sales and you have interest in becoming part of my inner circle and having me literally facilitate your coaching, there's a lot of cool things happening in circle.

There's one that happens next month. We come to Boise for two days and I will facilitate a mastermind group with you and about 25 other amazing entrepreneurs. That's number one. Number two is in the beginning of next year, we have a big group mastermind where you can hang out with all 100 other inner circle members. And then number three, we have a thing called deck in a day where you come out and I even do one-on-one consult with you. So if you get value from all these consults, imagine me doing one-on-one with you specifically inside your business. The only way to get that done is number one, be Ollie and have a huge YouTube channel and ask me to be on it. Or number two is to be part of the inner circle. So if you're

interested in potentially joining the inner circle, we do have a rigorous application process to make sure you're a good fit. But if you're interested, like now is the time I would need your applications in this week because our first mastermind meeting started the very first week in October. So yeah, if you're interested now is the time. And if you go to innercircleforlife.com, that's all spelled out, innercircle, F-O-R-L-I-F-E.com. If you go there, that'll take you to the registration page where you can go and you can apply and be part of Inner Circle. It has more details. It shows you some of the cool people that are in it. And then you could be out here in Boise getting your own consult here in the next couple weeks. So anyways, check that out if it makes sense for you.

InnerCircleForLife.com. And then outside of that, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode with my consultation with Ali Abdaal on how to grow his dental product business. And I'm sure you'll get two or four or ten or a hundred things from this that help you in your journey as well. Thanks so much, and I hope you guys enjoy this episode. In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars in my own products and services online. This show is going to show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson and welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast.

Okay, Russell. So I was hoping we could pretend or act as if this is a business coaching session. You have people rocking up to your office for consults and stuff, people in your mastermind. So if I rocked up as like a new client or something, how would a business coaching session with you, like what would that look like? How do we start? It depends if we're just met. If we just met, like I try to figure out what in the world we do. So I kind of know what you do. It helps a lot. But I guess the biggest question is there's always a gap to where you are and where you want to be.

What's that gap? What's it look like? Because I know where you're at right now, where you're trying to get to, and then we can kind of figure out what's missing. Okay. So last year we did about $5.5 million in revenue we're operating at about like 55 60 percent uh growth operating profit pre-tax whatever the EBITDA whatever the number that is um and that's cool and what percent was it uh like 55 60 something like that um and what I would love to do in the game of entrepreneurship is to go from five million to 10 million and also ideally try and dissociate the business revenue

from me having to show up and continuously film YouTube videos. So I guess those are our two main things. Grow revenue, but do it in a way that doesn't necessarily require, yeah, allows me to take a month off without the business then tanking. Yeah, for sure.

Where's the revenue breakdown? Like course sales versus other stuff versus what's the, where's the revenue of that 5 sales versus other stuff versus what's it where's the road that five million come from yep nice so about two million ish is from our content which is sort of adsense on youtube videos and sponsorships and the other three million ish is from course sales and so last year the only course we had was our part-time youtuber academy which is just a single product uh we were we were doing that as a live cohort for about three years and then last year we switched it to evergreen we did a final cohort did a big launch to two million for

that launch which is nice and so we have that as a thousand dollar self-paced course now and we also have a 5k a year kind of coaching program for youtubers our youtuber accelerator where um my team gives people one-on-one support for growing their channels. We think 5K for 12 months is probably way too cheap, given how much of a nightmare it is to fulfill on that. So we're now thinking of turning that into- And other people charge for something similar. Yeah. Because we were feeling like, oh, we need to give so much value. And then we're like, oh, crap. We've sort of signed ourselves up for this 12-month thing. So we're thinking of turning

that into 5K for three months, which feels-month thing. So we're thinking of turning that into like 5K for three months, which feels a bit more reasonable. We're thinking of turning our YouTuber self-paced course into a $1,000 a year community membership type thing. We're thinking of maybe adding a $300 product. But then a month ago, we created a new value ladder for productivity, which is the thing that I'm known for. It was a bit accidental that we ended up making all this money from YouTube

because I'm not known for the guy who teaches people how to grow on YouTube. That's not my shtick. My shtick is how to be more productive. So we launched Productivity Lab, which is a $1,000 a year membership community. And we sold 500 spots within 48 hours. And we capped it at 500. And that's been going for a month now. And people love it.

And it's great. And so we really want to scale that up, but without diluting the quality of the community by having too many people in it we're thinking maybe adding like a one-on-one productivity coaching offer on the back end and maybe a sort of 300 course above uh sort of at the top of the value ladder as a way of getting people in so i'm just through a lot of that i see if any of that makes sense 100 yeah now um right now so basically each of those you sold during a launch, right? So you did a launch, you got to say that you're sending emails,

you're creating videos specifically for it and then anything else is happening when you're launching those? Yeah. So we launched, we start by building a wait list by funneling traffic from socials and from YouTube occasionally

and from my newsletter into this wait list. We build up a wait list and then we do like a launch sequence, like 10 to 15 days worth of emails to that wait list. And then that's how we do the launches when we were doing launches for our youtuber academy and when we did the launch for productivity lab but where i'd love to get to and i'd love to get your take on this is for me like launches are quite a stressful way to run a

business and it when we were running live cohorts for our youtuber academy three times a year it was a real like fingers crossed like this one week where we can get sales out of, like, a four-month period. Like, let's hope we make enough money. And that feels kind of stressful. So I'd love for the revenue to be a little bit more, like, chill, a little bit more recurring. Yeah. Which is why we like the idea of turning YouTuber Academy into evergreen self-paced course. Yeah.

The launch scheme, like, people live or die by it because it's hit a launch and they get $3-5 million in sales. Then a year later, they just launch again and this time it hits $100,000 in sales. But they built up thinking it's going to be as big as the last. All that kind of stuff. It stresses me out. During the pandemic, the course completely printed cash. Straight after the pandemic, it stopped printing cash and we were like, uh-oh.

All of our projections were based on this continuing to print cash. Money does not grow in trees. This is kind of bad. So I want to avoid that kind of state of affairs. So right now, if you're not doing a launch, those sales aren't coming in. Is there evergreen kind of working now? Yeah.

So we have one evergreen product. Okay. So we have a – actually, if I draw it out, it might be easier. So we kind of have – nice. Oh, nice stick pens. So we have our sort of YouTube value. We have our sort of productivity stuff. So on the YouTube, we have a $1 self-paced course,

which upsells people into a 1K self-paced course, which in theory gets people to apply for the 5K 12-month program. You can say apply, so you can call them on the phone to sell it? Yeah, we had a sales guy. So they would apply, and then the sales guy would go and call with them and then if they were the right fit great um we've closed sales for this right now because we want to revamp the offer because it was a bit much so this is a dollar just for oh it's like a youtube for beginners course okay um so roughly we get like maybe i don know, 200 sales a week of this, 200 per week. And roughly 4% of people take the upsell to the $1,000 product.

And overall of the $1,000 product, we get like 20 to 30 sales per week. So this is doing like 20K a week. But I'd love... And this is just evergreen coming through? This is evergreen. And this is currently closed because we are trying to figure out what to do with it. And this is only... Is this like they buy this and it's like an upsell like in funnel or is this happening?

Is there some other mechanism that you're selling this out? Oh yeah. So they could either buy this directly. There's a $27 order bump. Thank you for that idea. Of which maybe 30% of people take that. And then also they could just buy this directly. So some, a handful of sales each week trickle in from the upsell,

but a bunch of sales come in directly from them just landing on the thing. Because this is really aimed at complete beginners. This is how to get your first two videos out there. Whereas this is more like the whole shebang, like everything about growing on YouTube. Yeah. Okay. And then do you sell this through a webinar or just a VSL?

A landing page. A really, really long landing page that really needs to be shorter. But that's the only way we sell this. Is it copy-based or video-based? What's on the landing page? There is a video at the top, but then there's shit tons of copy. Why do you want to make it shorter? I don't know.

I just feel like it's a bit too long. Actually, interestingly, our conversion rate on this landing page is about 0.4%. 0.4% conversion rate on this landing page is about 0.4%. 0.4% conversion rate on this landing page. So from person visiting landing page to sales by 0.4%, which feels a bit low because it's mostly organic. I mean, we started doing paid a couple of months ago. And I actually don't know what the conversion rate is of like paid versus organic. So that's actually something to think about. P versus O. organic so that's actually a something to think about um p versus o and then are people like

the organic side is it you have videos specifically promoting this or every video like in description impressions or what's yeah good idea yeah good point so we have every video promoting this thing but also i have a handful of videos on my channel that are like how to grow on youtube those get evergreen traffic and i casually mentioned oh by the way i've got a course and i think people are clicking on those although and we have utm tracking but i haven't looked at it in a while so that's a good point cool okay i understand that you understand this and then on this end we basically have this 1k per year kind of community membership type thing which we launched last month the idea behind this is that it's like peloton for productivity so every day there's like Zoom co-working sessions. Every week we're

doing facilitated weekly planning. Every month there's a session. Every quarter I do a quarterly webinar to plan your next quarter. We want to do in-person events and everything. And all of this is 1K a year. And at the moment we've got 500 people in this. We've been doing it for a month. They're all really happy. And we'd love to scale this value ladder and also this one to get us to this goal of 10 million in a way that doesn't require me to always be showing up in churning videos and the revenue from this versus this this is this did about 3 million last year okay and this so far has done well 500k oh yeah it's 500k cool uh which one are you more passionate about this one really interesting i love talking about productivity i no longer love talking about

youtube um this is our youtuber academy and so i'd kind of love to love to get to the point where like to be honest like my team is now more youtube experts than i am i just like it's so systemized i just rock up and do my thing yeah and so my youtube producer is like an actual expert on how to grow on YouTube and so I want him to be doing like mini courses and webinars and stuff within the YouTuber Academy because he's like boots on the ground our editors are freaking amazing and so I want them to be doing stuff I don't know anything about video editing anymore so it's like yeah yeah whereas this productivity is kind of my jam this is what I enjoy um was it hard to sell the thousand dollar a year thing like for your like yeah so we had a wait list of like 30 000 people this was so they signed up before

they knew what the price point was and we did some post sign up segmentation and found like 70 of them were making under two grand a month so they wouldn't qualify for the product anyway um but no we sold 500 within two days within the like 10 minutes, we got like half the spot sold. So it seemed like there was a lot of demand for this offer. But also my whole shtick is productivity. We've got like 5.5 million subscribers for productivity. And this was the first time we've released a product other than my book, which is about productivity.

So yeah. Very cool. Did you close down signups for that or just? Yeah, this is not closed. Yeah. And we're building a waitlist we've been now got 50 000 on the waitlist for this uh but again like our post thingy segmentation is a bit dodge so i don't exactly know how many of them would actually qualify to

buy this yeah and you're making them qualify by how much money they make or by what um one of the questions is how much money do you make and that's helpful do you only sell people who qualify or do you sell to anybody? I don't sell to anyone, but it's, it's more like, cause it's, it's a,

it's a low friction sale. They can just sign up. Um, but I'm assuming that if someone makes less than 2K a month, they're not going to buy this. You'd be blown away. Really? I'm also assuming that if like they're outside of the U S the UK and Europe,

they're also not going to buy the thing. Um, which kind of broadly holds for like 70% of our us average age is 38 uh so they all have jobs slash entrepreneurs yeah i'm gonna tell you a funny story about hermosi so when hermosi shifted from going out and doing gym launches for people he started selling uh the license to his product the very first phone sale he did it was for he sold it for 6k and the guy was like done he's like oh so then the next call he's like uh it's 8k and guys like done he's like oh so the next guy is like 10 he kept going up till eventually it landed i think like 36 000 a year

to sign up but the crazy is the average gym owner only takes home 25 000 a year so they're paying more than their yearly take home for this thing because they believed it was gonna help them to make more so anyway just oh and from a pricing standpoint people will buy what they want not what they necessarily can afford or need anyway but and and price elasticity is huge especially on something like this where if you have someone launch a youtube channel how much money a year could or should they be making off of youtube channel oh if it's big then stupid numbers yeah but for an average person like someone who's like, the person who's coming in here and starting,

what do you think, year one? Like nothing. I think for beginners to YouTube, YouTube is not a make money scheme. It's only a make money scheme for a very small number of people. Is it positioned as a make money thing? No, it's positioned as it will save you time on the journey of growing your YouTube channel. Maybe you'll make money, maybe you won't, but I guarantee in two years, if you do it every week,

it'll change your life. That's our whole pitch. And our most common customer is the 38-year-old accountant who always wanted to start a YouTube channel because she has a passion for knitting and wants to share that and doesn't really care about making money from it. And of course, if she made money from it, it's a bonus. So that's about 70%. They just want to talk. Yeah, they just love it. And 30% is like, I'm an entrepreneur. I've got an offer.

I want leads. Help me out. Gotcha. We also sort of, in the background, we're trying to do like a 10K a month thing, which is sort of done for you videos, where we have, I think, your friend Ryan Dice as our first client.

Oh, cool. So we're working with him to try and do done for you for his youtube channel like he is filming edit you're just editing or so he's he's filming the stuff and then we're doing all the editing the titles the thumbnails the whole shebang so one of my team members is sort of leading on this and trying to grow this as a mini agency yeah that's really cool that's a bit of a experimental one you see if you like that business yeah Yeah. Yeah, we'll see how it goes. Okay. Awesome.

So with any business, there's like a thousand things you could do. Yeah. Someone's looking at like, if this was mine and if I was to take, like say I bought this company from you tomorrow, like what would be the first thing I would do? And so like I think the, I mean, I think I would focus here first because there's bigger revenue and i feel like also right here you're you're not ready to turn this into 5 000 people right because you said you're nervous

about just the fulfillment and keeping the community yeah but you have a thing you want to make more money but you want to keep the community small it's like yeah i want to weird i know yeah so i want i want more people to come into this but i want i want the experience i don't want the experience to be diluted we're trying to figure out ways to do this like do we do quarterly launches where i do a quarterly planning webinar and then we do like a 90-day cohort so that then they're in a smaller group of people and so they feel as if they're part of a small group we're thinking of spilling them in like harry potter houses within that so there's another smaller group and so if we can if we can

nail how do we cut this community into smaller groups that they feel that that personal connection in then this can really scale we haven't nailed that yet so we're still in the experimenting our next cohort for this is launching like next month and so we're gonna let in a couple hundred more people and experiment with this 90 day model and just figure out how do we get this to scale without it is there progression over time inside of here like for your programs like they're trying to get to this level and like even is there progression in it or is it uh more circular it's so the idea the promises will help you double your productivity um and so we they do a survey at the start and so at the end and like actually we're actually

pretty close to doubling people's productivity is just doubling uh in just a month which is kind of nice but it's sort of like it's it's not like it's going to take your business from 10k to 100k it's more like hey these are just generally useful habits where every day you rock up and do some deep work every week you do a weekly review and it's just a thing that keeps on going but is there stuff where like the reason i'm asking is like i don't want to solve this problem if there's like a progression of like okay someone comes into this and they're going to go through this and then they're going to graduate or get a certificate or something right they they've accomplished this now they're going to move to the next step and like there's there's milestones is there milestones that someone can progress through is it more circular

which is like you keep it's more circular it's more like uh crossfit like exercise classes yes you could go to the i mean ultimately fundamentally you keep showing up to the exercise classes yeah to stay in shape okay into. It's that sort of idea, but for productivity. Gotcha. Okay. There's probably some reason. Because my biggest fear on this one for you is like, what I've noticed with people, if there's subconscious blocks in growing something,

they won't grow it. It's like right now you have a subconscious block because you don't want to mess up the community. And so for you to go from 500 to 5,000 members would not be hard technically. Subconsciously, you're going to fight it because you're like, you know what I mean? Interesting. So yeah, usually it's almost always psychology that keeps people back. It's very rarely tactics. Okay.

So that'd be the thing is like, I think if you can fix that problem, then that one will open up. Yep. So like the way, again, I don't know the answer, but like we're doing this right now in our certification program because we had the same thing where people were coming in and all of a sudden, we're selling it throughout the year. So you come in and you have someone who's been going through the program. They're great funnel builder, doing all sorts of stuff. But then the problem is like brand new person comes in and they're asking questions.

And the person who's been doing this for a year and a half is like annoyed by this whole thing. And so we were restructuring ours and it's really, really cool. But it's based on there's, there's, um, modules and milestones, right? So I look at a timeline here where it's like, you come in and then this is the first milestone. So in our world, it's like you make your first 10K as a funnel builder. Then the next milestone is 50K and there's 100K and then there's a million, right? So there's these goals you're moving towards. And inside there, there's these little badges people have to do to get the next goal.

Nice. And what's cool about this is we have a process where it's like when you first come in you have you have um you was like the you know or me who like the guru teaching but then internally there's there's mentors so people who are past the 10 000 mark they're like part of their role to get to here is like to become mentors so they're coming in and instead of being annoyed like oh this person's a beginner they're like hey i'm a mentor so they help get somebody to this spot yeah and as soon as you get to this spot, then you get the new mentors who have been here, and then you also become a mentee for people who are behind you.

So now there's like, they're always, they're moving towards, but also pulling back. And then what's cool is then you can keep dumping people in here and they're going through this. And when someone's on a call or a question, you're like, oh, well, I'm on level three right now. I'm level four. Then they know exactly where they're at.

And then you or the people know how to help them like oh i was stuck level three too biggest problem is you you got to figure out how to do blah you know and help smooth the progression so this gives you the ability if we could have 5 000 people it doesn't get overwhelming for the community if you can figure out some version this for years i don't know exactly what it looked like but nice that's until you're pumped about getting 5 000 people in there it's gonna be hard for you to get more than that you know what i mean yeah because right now if we 10x it overnight i'd be like oh my oh you're right you're subconsciously i will we'll definitely burn that to the ground before i let you get there okay interesting yeah yeah so once we nail yeah nice something like

this milestone small group experience something like that at the point where i feel like hell yeah we can scale this to 5 000 then it becomes a lot easier to do yeah because it's not it's yeah there's always like it's either a math problem or a drama problem. A math problem or what? A math problem or a drama problem. A math problem you solve with like, okay, we just create a funnel, drive some math. That's easy. The drama problem, it's not real, but it's in our heads.

And that will sabotage us solving the math problem because we're like, ah, you know what I mean? So that would be like solve that then we can talk about the funnels there this one i feel like this seems like it's all in place where like if you went to 200 a week you wouldn't stress out no i would love that yeah you'd be fine so this is the easier one to solve right now because it's just math problem versus this is a drama problem interesting that's fun i'm gonna label this this is great i have never heard of this framing of it before but that's cool so this is math and this is drama solve the drama we'll do the math that'll be yeah i got it from brooke castillo who's like the greatest life coach of all time she came to our audience and started

talking about like see the math or drama and it's funny because we did a whole q a and people stuck and every time they come in it's okay before i answer this is math problem or drama problem like it's drama okay let's just solve that because it's not real. It's just psychology versus actually solving it. That's really, really good. So, okay, so then going back, okay, the math problem we've got to solve is just this because everything else is all, you've got to raise this to like 15K or something.

But that's, the biggest thing is this is the bottleneck that if you fix that, because if you get 20, 30 a week organically off of 0.4 conversion rate yeah um yeah you if you fix this piece that becomes 200 weeks not hard because you're going to still get the organic and then it gives you ability to try on ads yeah um so i should get to see this page so this page right now i'm assuming you're saying it's yeah it's like really yeah video sales letter of you selling it? Yep.

And then long form. How long is the page, do you think? Like tens of thousands of words. What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. I've got something really cool for you today from my friend Taylor Wells. Taylor spoke at our last Funnel Hacking Live because I wanted him to share a really cool concept about what he calls the revolving pricing method. And today he decided

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We've installed Microsoft's hotjar equivalent, whatever it's called, found out what areas the heat map are like more. It's like, okay, cool. Some of the testimonials are outdated and the graphs the growth graphs that we have are outdated so there's basic things that we can do to like tweak that yeah so the bigger thing is that i i'm sure there's ways you optimize this usually optimization you go from 0.4 it's like 0.6 or something so it's not

like oh it's not a radical shift yeah. The radical shift is like shifting the funnel. The way you're actually selling it. Because selling a $1,000 offer through a video sales that are long for a page is like a less... It's a tool, but it's not the most effective tool. Oh, okay. What do you mean? So shifting the tool is how you do it. For me to sell a $1,000 course, there's two tools that are the best in the world to sell

a $1,000 course. And one is a webinar, one's a challenge. And so it's shifting the tool. Because on a webinar, if you get people on a webinar and they watch the presentation, if you do a good webinar, 10% of people who come to the webinar will buy.

So it changes the math of it all, right? And are we talking like live or are we talking about fake live? The very first time is live. And I do it live a few times until you master the pitch. Nice, yeah. And then you transition.

So, for example, I launched ClickFunnels. The very first, we tried six different times to launch ClickFunnels. And I was trying sales letters. I was trying the wrong, the tools that work but not well. And I was trying things. And then like four or five months into ClickFunnels, I got asked to speak at an event. And all the older versions I was selling just like a trial, like sign up for a trial. And it was costing us like $200 or $300 to get someone to sign up for a trial.

It was just like, it wasn't working, right? Yeah. So my friend's like, hey, come speak at my event. I want you to speak. And then at the end of your presentation, I want you to sell ClickFunnels. I was like, nobody's buying ClickFunnels. He's like, well, make a $1,000 version that you can bundle it together and then make an offer. So I spoke to his event, did the webinar, and in a room of 300 people, we signed up like 100 and something people. I was just like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing.

So I did the webinar. It wasn't webinars. It was on stage. But I did the presentation, and it crushed. And what was interesting is when I was leaving the hotel to go fly home, I was in the lobby and there was this lady around to me. She's like, oh, your presentation was awesome. She's like, the problem is I'm a coach and so I can't use ClickFunnels. I was like, what do you mean? And she's like, well, during your presentation, you showed how you use Funnels to build a

supplement company, but I don't have a supplement company. I'm a coach and I can't use ClickFunnels. And I was like, I have coaching funnels too. This works for coaches. And she's like, are you serious? And she had no idea. So she ran back into the event room. It was still going on another day. And she grabbed one of her friends. They grabbed order forms. They came out, both of them handed me an order form. Like we had no idea this would work for coaches. I thought it was just for supplement people. I was like, oh my gosh, like I didn't, I need to mention the fact. So on the flight home, I take my, my, my presentation and I added in like a, like two or three slides. Like, Hey, if you're a coach, this is how it works. And if you're a, you know,

if you're, this is how it works. So I could tweak the webinar a little bit. So then when I got back home, I started lining up webinars to start doing more of these webinars. And I remember the very first day back, I had two webinars lined up. So I did a webinar in the morning. I think I had like 600 people register for it, did the webinar. And we did like $30,000 in sales off the webinar, which is not bad. I was like, this is pretty good. But then, um, before the next webinar happened, I had another webinar that night had about the same amount of people registered. And my, um, uh, my business partner, Todd, he went, he went in, he exported all the questions from the first webinar. And he was like, Hey, just, you know, a minute 12, everyone's asking this question. They're confused. I was like,

Oh, I looked at my slides. I'm like, Oh, I can. So I just resolved that. Like I added it. Right. And then he's like over here, they were confused. So like, we found all the sticking spots. And so I found all those things. And the offer, they were confused about the offer. So we tweaked that a little bit. We changed some stuff. And then I did a webinar, same size audience.

And that time we did over $100,000 in sales. And I was like, dang. So then after that, then Todd exported the questions again. And we did that 70 times. 70? 70 webinars. Whoa. To the point where it got so good, like, I can do the webinar by memory now.

But, like, every concern before it came up, I was able to resolve it. Like, if you watch it, it's just like you had to buy. And so long-term, definitely evergreen it. But short-term, like, you got to do it at least three or four times to go through that process and just figure out what those things are. Yeah. Because the first time, you never know until – audience will tell you exactly where they're confused. People are, yeah. So for me, that's what I would do first.

Let's create a webinar. It's selling 1,000 on our course. Let's do a live one to your audience. We test it. In fact, I literally just did this right now. Last week, I bought salesfunnels.com. We did a webinar there. We had 10,000 people register. Did the webinar. Found the mistakes. Tweaked it all. And then that was last Thursday. So today, I'm doing it again. We had 10,000 people register, did the webinar, found the mistakes, tweaked it all, and then that was last Thursday. So today I'm doing it again.

We've got 4,500 people registered for today. I'm going to do it again, and then we're going to tweak it again. And I'm going to do that three or four times, and then we'll have the evergreen version, then we'll turn it on, and then we'll have 30,000, 40,000 people want to watch that webinar for the next two or three years. We just keep driving traffic, and it's just crushing thousands of sales.

So the ads are getting people to the webinar and then you're just sort of measuring the effectiveness of, and that's figuring out your... And you figure out, okay, it's going to cost me, you know, $10 to get someone

to register for the webinar. From there we get 30% show up rate and 30% show up rate. We get 10% to buy and the follow-up sequence usually will double the sales and so you just look

at the math on that and say, okay, cool. Right now, we spend $10,000 a week and we make $30,000. So then you start, then go to $10,000, $100,000 a week and we make $30,000. So then you start, then go to $10,000, $100,000 a week,

make $300,000. Go to a million a week. It was just ramping up the equation. Just like a slot machine at that point. You put money in, you get it back out. Damn. But that's the magic.

For this, that's the best way to sell this is creating a webinar and just doing it three or four times. Once you're an audience, once it's cold ads, once it's traffic and you perfect it

and then now you evergreen it and then moving forward, that thing's just selling for you 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Dude, that's sick. Can I do webinars on ClickFunnels? 100%. Sick. Yes. You better do them in ClickFunnels. They don't work anywhere else. Okay. Talk to me about challenge. How does challenge work? So challenges are very similar to webinars. Webinars, traditionally, it's like a 90-minute presentation. So everything's coming register, 90 minute presentation. You make an offer, make the software at the end of it. And then there's a whole followup sequence and all this stuff. Challenges like traditionally

people would do a three day challenge or a five day challenge. It's the same script as the webinar, but it's broken instead of, um, like look at my webinar script is basically, this is the clock. So this is, this is an clock. So this is an hour. So I'm going to do, I break it down into four quarters. Like there's four things you teach during the webinar to break false beliefs to get them to want to buy. And then the second half, you're going to do 30 minutes, which is like your pitch, right?

And so it's a 90 minute presentation. With the challenge, it's the same structure, but it's broken up by day. So day number one, you do basically this part and this part day number two you're doing this part day number three do this and day number four is this it's just kind of broken up longer form so it's nice for like educators because you get you get to teach like here i'm 15 minutes talk about you got an hour or hour and a half to get more teaching time yeah you get more time in front of people the challenges were great.

The only downside of challenges is like, I don't know, doing a five-day challenge five or six times to perfect it is a lot of work. And it's harder to ever green a challenge just because there's more break-off points, right? Like there's people registering, the people show up on day one but not day two. And then day two, not day – you know, like there's more breakage points. Whereas here I try to max. So I'm a webinar guy. I love webinars.

I can maximize some people showing up and selling it. And I can, I can control this and tweak this a lot easier than, than a challenge. Um, but we have people in our community who just kill challenges. Like, so they both,

they're both good tools. It just kind of depends on the style you like better, you know? That's very interesting. And if we turn this into a 1k for 12 months type offer where you get access to the community as well and events and stuff it's the same thing like webinar is better to sell a 1k product yeah at that price point like yeah selling a thousand dollar offer off of off of just a straight sales page is very hard like one of the hardest

so 0.4 is not bad on a thousand dollar offer like that's not bad at all okay cool that's useful yeah because the conversion rate on this one is like 20% because it's a $1 product. And I'm like, 0.4%? I heard industry average was 1%. Surely we can double it. That's not a $1,000 offer, though. But then the other thing that was cool is someone registers for webinar and they go through. So if you look at my webinar sequence, so the way I do it is we start the sequence over every week.

So there's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And so this is the sequence, right? So we do is we buy ads Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and half a day Thursday. And then Thursday I usually perform my webinar. It doesn't have to be Thursday. It can be Wednesday. For me, for my audience, my time, I figured I found that's been like the best time for me. Um, and then that's done. And then what happens on Friday, then you give them a replay a Saturday. Then, then what I try to do is I try to think about different modalities. Everyone consumes things different ways. Some people like to watch YouTube videos. Some people like podcasts.

Some people like to read. So I'm trying to give them different modalities. Because some people are going to show up live. Some people will never show up live. So you might get 20% to 30% who actually show up live. 70% didn't. So I'm targeting those other 70%. I get them to watch a replay because they just want it on their time schedule. So then they have a day or so to go

through and watch it here on Friday. Then on Saturday, I start shifting. What are the modalities? I'm like, oh, the way we position is like, those who didn't have time to actually watch the webinar, I got a Clip Notes version of the webinar. You can actually read the whole thing. And I'll send them to this page right here. So this becomes like, this is the Clip Notes of the webinar. I got a Clip Notes version of the webinar. You can actually read the whole thing. And I'll send them to this page right here. So this becomes like, this is the Clip Notes of the webinar. So they can watch the shorter video, read it all. And so what happens is you start picking up a lot of people here, but most of them already went through the sequence. So the conversions will go up no matter what, because there's so much pre-framing that happened here and here. Then you get people to read it. So there's a different modality of people who buy here.

And then usually Saturday and Sunday, this is where we try to bring in urgency Sunday and then even Monday. And so what happens here is then we have urgency and scarcity. So basically, it's like this campaign shuts down Monday at midnight. And so you got to Monday to decide to go all in. And so it goes down there and then Monday at midnight, the offer closes down for everyone in this cohort. And so if they click on the links after midnight, it redirects them back to the registration page. They can go re-register, but it starts the whole sequence over.

But it does close down. They can't buy anymore. And then Monday we start back over. New ads, new funnel, start driving traffic, and then just keep it going through. Bloody hell. And so can people then buy this evergreen? Oh, okay.

So they can, but also... but it's it because people always say like why do you close it on the card they can still buy it like they they can like it closes down like this sequence like the sequence closes down and the offer disappears like you can't buy it through this funnel if they want to go they can go find this page they could buy it or they can go re-register and go through the whole sequence again but it's legitimate urgency and scarcity that we close this down at midnight where it's like you can't you can't you can't buy it so this happened last two weeks or last week we did the webinar 10 000 people register as soon as as soon as thursday started we turned off uh we turned off the registration page for the next week boom and

so what's been happening is last week thursday friday saturday sunday monday too like people are still registering from the ad so we had 4 4,000 people that lined up for today. And then we'll hit that one. And so today, they'll flip to the registration page. And it just keeps rolling and keeps rolling. Wow. That's so cool. Yeah.

And then do you connect these up to your CRM through ClickFunnels and stuff as well? Yeah. ClickFunnels is a CRM. Oh, it is? Oh, fine. We're in everything with ClickFunnels, yeah. Nice. Yeah.

That's so cool. And that's kind of it. And then I said, you can still do YouTube videos and like push to like, hey, go watch my web class about whatever. Yeah. Which is great. That's kind of a nice pitch because it's like a free thing. Yeah. And they're getting free web class. Yeah.

And then from an ad standpoint, like putting ads, webinars on ads is the best way we do it. Like we can, of all the things we drive traffic to, the thing that's most profitable to paid ads are webinars. Because we're making more money back here, right? But also we get so many leads coming in because, yeah. Damn. And the other thing you can do is that also is like this right here. So when someone registers for the webinar on the thank you page, you go, hey, by the way, Google my dollar thing.

So you'll start selling tons of these too just by having it in the sign-up flow. Okay, question. Should we have a $300 midpoint between these two things? Because we're thinking of making this $1,000 a year as a thingy with all of the stuff or a lighter version of

the YouTuber operating system for $300 as a self-paced course. Yes. I say yes, but where you position it in your sequence is key. Like you still want, like this would be still be the thing I'd sell on the webinar because it's got the highest price point, easiest for you to make money back and be profitable.

And then what we typically do is after the campaign closes down for them and, you know, Monday, midnight closes down, then Dean Gross, the OC and Tony Robbins do this the best. They call the no customer left behind campaign. So when Tony and Dean do the big launches and they close it down a week

later, the message everyone like, Hey, hope you enjoyed the challenge or the webinar. If you did enjoy it, if you signed up, congratulations, excited to work.

If you didn't, we don't want to leave anyone behind. You want everyone to leave with something. And so they have this other offer. So the offer they put out, it's called, it's a Tony Robbins inner circle.com. It's like a hundred bucks a month and you get a Tony Robbins lucky hat and you get whatever.

It's $100 a month and they send everyone to that after the sequence is over and they do like, I don't know, they do like $89 million a year off of this offer that's like on the backside of it.

So what I would do is after you've gone through this, you've done your best case trying to get this, then when the campaign ends and I come back and say, hey, for those who weren't able to get started,

we have this really cool thing. Maybe you can afford it. This is something that you started and get you blah, blah, blah. So that's where I would position that in the sequence. So that's how I – well, when it comes to ads. But like let's say if someone – if an organic lead from YouTube were to go to YouTuberAcademy.com or whatever, would you show that, hey, we've got 300, we've got 1,000, we've got to apply now? Like in your description you mean? No, just like on the page the page on the like if you

go on youtuberacademy.com say hey welcome to the youtuber academy we have these three things for you we've got a 300 thing we've got a thousand thing we've got a 5k thing is that like i think it's fine for organic but in the paid world no one ever sees that you don't they always they only see the funnel they see what you point into yeah yeah so yeah i wouldn't have any problem with that somewhere else but again i'm not as good organically so none of my people would ever see that yeah it'd be hard for them to find it like but yeah this is the thing so like even even with like brendan stuff like i signed up for his experts academy through an ad and i was trying to find it on google it's like why why does he make it so hard for me to pay money to him because

i'm trying to recommend it to people i'm like i literally can't find the url but yeah that's why yeah that's the one we're gonna to be able to control the buying situation, right? Because you think about it socially, of all this chaos, all these people. And for me, it's like, hey, take chaos or ads or whatever. It's like, I need to move them to a spot where I'm controlling the conversation. Yeah. And that's cool about funnels. It gives you the ability to slow things down and take them through the logical sequence

of events you need to be able to make the argument, why they need to buy your thing and all that kind of stuff. Okay. I always struggle with this so yakub who's our head of marketing will often he's been pushing me to do webinars for ages and he'll make the slides and then when it comes to the sales bit at the end i like blitz through it and i like my energy towards it it's very like oh yeah but you don't need to buy the thing it's all good and he's like tearing he's like bro what what are you doing you're such a content developer you don't want to buy the thing it's all good and he's like tearing he's like bro what what are you doing

you're such a content developer you don't want to sell like no yeah any any tips yeah um that's really funny yeah a lot of people struggle with that um and there's two things there's the there's the math and the drama which one you want i think it's a drama here's the drama yeah the drama is people feel uncomfortable selling yeah because they feel like they're doing something wrong or they're like, I'm doing this to you, which is what keeps people late. Especially people who are really good content developers. They've been giving so much content for free forever. They're asking specifically for you to do something. It feels awkward. The big thing is just, I think, really understanding that at least my belief and what I've

experienced, like if people don't pay and they don't pay attention, like they get free stuff and they, they feel good. But then the people who actually do something, it's, you know, it's like a funnel. Like the number of people actually do something smaller, smaller, like the people in my world have had the most success are also surprising as people who invested the most of my money because they pay, they pay attention, they keep showing up. And so I realized for me, it's like, I have love these people I'm serving and I love these people I care about and want to be successful. But if I actually want them to be successful, I have to convince them to make an investment themselves to get them off the sidelines and into the game.

Right. So that's the, that's the thing. So like when I believe that, and it's not just like lip service, but like I subconsciously believe, like if I don't convince this person to, to buy, then I can't actually help them. Then it shifts everything. I'm speaking on the stage of selling. I literally pray before I go out there, please help me to have the ability to convince these people so I can get them, so I can actually be successful. I can't do it just by giving them free stuff

because they're not going to commit. I need to get them to do something. For me, it's no longer hard for me to sell because as much as I love and care about these people, the only way I'm actually going to be able to get them to do the shifts they need is I have to get them to invest in themselves or they won't. So that's the biggest part. That's the drama. You got to convince yourself of that. And then the math is just like here's how we structure that.

We have to structure it. You know what I mean? It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no.

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Does your guy, does he do his pitch side similar to how I do mine, like stacking, stuff like that? So the biggest thing is like, the people I've seen have been uncomfortable with it. It's the ones who are trying

to like, to be me or they're trying to, like, there's a way to make it your own. It's not me, right? Like,

I have my method and so a lot of people like try to do it my way and they're like, I feel so uncomfortable. Like, yeah, well, you're not me. Like, the psychology method it's a lot of people like tried in my way and like i feel so uncomfortable like yeah well you're not me like the psychology is there the psychology is like um you're making them offers and you're making it off right and there's there's value each thing and um if if i show you like when i was like trying to learn how to speak from stage i went to every i went for four or five years i was going to two or three events uh a month just like watch people speak and how they were selling and like what most people would do

i think we've transitioned a lot like in the last couple years but most people do is they would like they would talk about what they have to offer right they're like the first thing you're gonna get is this and then you're gonna get this and it's like they share like this is the thing that they have that's worth like ten thousand dollars then this is the bonus that's worth a thousand dollars this is my bonus worth you know fifty dollars and then this and, they get down to like, usually the last bonus is like the worst one. Right. And then from there, like, so the price, you know, it's worth, it's worth $5,000, but I'm

only going to charge you $1,000. Right. But the problem is the human mind, you probably know this better than I do, but the human mind only really remembers the last thing that it was told. Right. Especially in the moment. So right here, I'm telling you that there's a $5,000 offer. And, um, and, but all your members, like that bonus telling you that there's a $5,000 offer. And, um,

and, but all your members, like that bonus you gave me is not worth $5,000. And also you have this internal conflict. I'm like, it'd be for a thousand dollars. Like, but this is worth a thousand dollars.

Like they forget about the thing. Right. So the way the stack works, and again, I do it more, more salesman style. That's my, my style.

But if you understand the psychology, the psychology is like, if you're making an offer, right, the first thing you got to do is like here's here's the first component of the offer and you explain it you talk about you show us why it's why why it's awesome and then we do is create a stack slide to show like so the first thing you're gonna get is this and here's the value associated with it right so that's how much it's worth then you're gonna do the next thing right you talk about that and then you come back and then you have to stack it so you show the next thing it's like so what that means is you're going to get this thing plus this thing.

If you add those two things together, this is the value of it. Then you introduce the third thing, so on and so forth. And then the end of it is you come back and like, then you have all of the things they're going to get in the offer. And this is where you introduce like whatever the value is because then they associate with this, not this. So that's the psychologist. You can do it in a way that's less Russell Brunson, used car salesman, pitchman, whatever you want to call me, right? You can do like the Ollie version, which could be different. It could be as simple as like not even using slides. You could like print out a copy of the course.

This is the first thing you're going to get. It's going to be amazing. Like I'm going to put it right here. And this is the course I would sell for $1,000. Then this is the next thing. Like, you know, and you can figure out your version. It's just the psychology of helping them see so that when they see everything they're going to get, that the price differential makes sense. And that way, when you drop the price, it's like, oh, this actually is a really good value. You know what I mean?

Yes. I've seen people who have done it where they write out the things on a whiteboard and they cover it with tape and they just pull it off. Like, oh, that's what it's going to be. I see other people who don't do slides at all. They're just explaining it. Yeah. They explain the parts and they show pictures of it. You know what it is like oh that's what it's going to be i see other people who don't do slides at all they're just explaining it yeah they explain the parts and they show pictures of it and they show you know it is so just figure out a way that you feel comfortable because you're just going to your friend and like saying like this is the cool like let me show you all the cool things i'm going to give you for a thousand bucks and then

you think about that way hopefully yeah like if i had someone looking over my shoulder and being like hey what's in the course i'd be so i'd be like there's this and there's this and there's a camera confidence course bundled in and also there's a creative printer course bundled in. But for some reason, when it's on a webinar with slides, which I guess slides that someone else has made. So maybe, yeah, hearing you say- And you don't even have to do slides.

I'm a slide guy, so I do slides. Dean Graciosi, if you watch him, Dean's got one slide and it's this one. He does the entire thing, teaching, serving, doing it the way he does stuff. And the very end, he's like, here's my slide slide and so it doesn't have to be again think the psychology it's like taking the site the destruction psychology of it and then making a version that's your own especially like your people are coming off youtube like they're used to seeing

you in a very certain light like i would do it at your desk i'd have you know like make it look like a youtube video yeah um and just make it feel your style. Don't do my style. Do your style. Yes, nice. Yeah, I think in my mind, I had to copy you because I've seen you do this on YouTube a bunch of times. And I'm like, that feels weird. But you saying that, oh, I can just do it my own way suddenly makes me, oh, yeah, I can do it my own way. Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm more the Dean style than the you style.

It's like, great. Like, I've seen him do it as well. And it comes across as very nice. Yeah. It's like so friendly. It's nice. See, for me, it's like I do it my way for a couple reasons it's like when you teach um when you teach you know it's like if i'm teaching for whiteboard like i'm freestyle i'm going but i'm trying to sell like i

don't freestyle because i have this very certain things i need to do so for me to remember where i'm going it's it's all slide driven yeah um so for me it's like the slides help me to remember the story and the thing and where i'm going so that's why i do it that way yeah um some people don't need that or some people have their own style you know like we talked earlier about youtube videos yeah your three things like you know here's the things they cover just follow that that process and make it your own you know that is very cool um okay next question. This is absolutely sick, by the way. Thank you. One thing that, so we had a great chat with Ryan Dice. And one thing we were talking about is, you know, I was saying this thing around, you know, we want to try and dissociate business revenue from me showing up to make YouTube videos.

The problem is sort of right now our our entire company is... Oh, whoops. It's sort of like, you know, I'll give you a company and there's sort of like the content team and then there's sort of like the commercial team, which has these two courses, the YouTube course and the productivity course. And we're sort of doing some software stuff on the side, but we don't need to talk too much about that. What Ryan suggested was that think of sort of doing some software stuff on the side, but we don't need to talk too much about that. What Ryan suggested was that think of sort of YouTuber Academy

and Productivity Lab as like almost separate entities with Ali Abdaal Media as like your content arm. So that means the team for Ali Abdaal Media can just be focused on creating content and growing the email list and driving book sales. Great, nice and easy. YouTuber Academy team would have a head of growth and a head of product.

And they can, you know, Alibaba Media can drive leads to this and drive leads to Productivity Lab. But actually these guys are now trying to get their own like paid ads and stuff. And having a dedicated head of growth for this thing, which is kind of two million a year, trying to grow it to five.

And then this is probably going to do like 1 million this year and we're trying to grow it to 5, this would also need a head of growth and a head of product. And so then Ali Abdaal becomes just one of the lead gen channels for each of these two different products. And by separating them out into their own mini businesses, mini companies with their own like ClickFunnels account, their own like CRM, their own like landing pages or whatever,

it means that these then become more saleable assets, whereas no one's ever going to buy Alibda Media. I wouldn't buy it, but you know, just kidding. What's your take on this approach of separating out the different products into different websites, assets? I agree with that. My structure is very similar because I've got Russell Brunson. I don't call it Russell Brunson Media, but it's like there's me doing the stuff I'm doing, right? Yeah.

And then we've got the ClickFunnels company. We have the Russell Brunson. I call marketing secrets with all my info product businesses. Yeah. Then I've got Dan Kennedy's business we bought. I got Secrets to Success with my personal loan business. And each of those has their own team of an integrator, operator who's running it, and things like that. Then we have one ads team who are who

are working across all of them though that would make sense it would make sense for ads to be like a shared service across the business like media buying and stuff like other hr stuff that's all shared but as far as like you are correct it's like there's not someone focusing on the business the growth it'll just actuallyrophy and die over time. Yeah, because we have, like, one marketing guy who was previously trying to grow, like, all the things, and it's just, like, split focus. Similarly, we found for social media, when our social media person is trying to grow all the platforms, they grow at a tiny rate. When she focuses on just one thing, it grows massively. Yeah.

Sort of like, yeah, the focus thing. I keep on seeing this so often in business that I just always forget that it's a thing. Yeah, for sure um speaking a little bit philosophically one drama thing i often run into is uh this is a good distinction from math and drama a drama thing i often run into is do i even need to grow the business to 10 million like what's the point i've got enough money like uh am i just being like a capitalist pig greedy blah blah like and then part of it's like no, I enjoy the game of entrepreneurship. This is fun.

I love talking about this. This is so cool. I'm looking forward to diving in and thinking about these funnels and things. Do you get this sort of drama with people that you coach and talk to? Yeah. It's a different culture, too. You think about it, America is probably a different culture than Europe, right? Oh, yeah.

I think you guys struggle with that more than here. Here it's like cutthroat. We're capitalists like that's the American culture. But overseas, other places we work for clients, it's definitely harder I think sometimes. But I think for me it all comes down to like the motives of it, right? Like if this is your game, like if you're an athlete, like you want to be the best athlete in the world, right?

That's, you know, there's people who go on a team that are there, but they're not trying. But you think about this, if your sport is entrepreneurship business and you're an athlete on the team, what's the point if you're not trying to do something? Yes, I have enough money. Michael Jordan is like, yes, he won a championship. But what else are you going to do with your life, right? It's like I feel like we're on this, you know, the time we're here on the earth, it's a short period of time, obviously. But at the same time, it's like, there's not a lot to do.

It's like, I spend time with my wife, my kids, and there's still like eight hours a day to do something. I can watch Netflix or I can create something of value that fuels me, but it also changes people's lives. Yeah, I think when you, at least for me, when I started transitioning less to like, I got to make $10 million to like, if I make $10 million, the amount of people I'm going to be able to affect is double. That fires me up even more so, just realizing that part of it. And then you start seeing the ripple effect of that, right? When we launched ClickFunnels,

that was one of the coolest things. Initially, it was like a vehicle and tool for me and my business partner, Todd Todd to make money and then we started seeing people having success like whoa those guys are making money it became more exciting like look how much money

these guys are making and then the obsession became like helping them and then what was cool was like then these people who are all small entrepreneurs they start hiring teams and people

and like I remember one time we did an audit we tried to figure out just ClickFunnels active users how many employees each person had it was like on average like 2.5.

So like that's, that's 250,000 employees that have jobs because of the ClickFunnels ecosystem. Right. And then we started thinking about, I started looking at each individual entrepreneur, like, uh, like Caitlin Poland launched Lady Boss and they had like 1.5 million women on the email list who were following them. They had like a hundred thousand active customers who bought their products, who lost weight. And I was like, that one entrepreneur that affected, you know, 100,000 plus people. And he started looking at the ripple effect, how it starts going.

And then for me, like that's what fires me up more than the 10 million. It's like, how many lives are changed because you did this thing? Like that's the more exciting thing, right? And this actually, I'm going to caveat this because this comes back to a question you asked like an hour ago.

But like the ads, like how do you create ads long-term? But like if you start shifting if you start looking at this differently like the the um the first level ads people have is like them telling the story like hey i'm ollie i'm successful i'm successful go watch my webinar right which is a which is good but then what's what's better is when you come down and and you talk about or your customer stories like this is a much better story and it's a much better ad. Having this person come on and be like, I went through Ali's course and blah, blah, blah,

and it changed my life, it was amazing. If you guys want to check it out too, boom. That ad will out-convert you doing the ad, right? And you have tons of these people. Every time you give someone a success story, you capture them telling the story, and that becomes the ad which fuels the thing. If you're talking about you have 30, whatever,

Alex told you, 30 ads a month or whatever, they don't have to be you doing 30 ads like get 30 people success stories and those people each create three ads now you got ads for the next 90 days right so it's like looking at that like there's like the the first tier which is most entrepreneurs focus on themselves and then the second tier which most people never get to is like the focus of the customers and then that becomes the success stories that drive the business to the next level and beyond so anyway it gets more it gets more fun that way because then it's like yeah we change someone's life and you capture that so like for us when we started i started realizing this when someone would have success and they went to comic club or something like we fly them to boys we fly to them we um dan usher on our team uh he bought a he bought a like a camper

trailer and he took like four months off and just drove around the country to people's houses to capture these stories we brought him back and they became a little mini documentaries they became videos they came in ads they came like all the social assets and like hearing you know gabe schillinger in san francisco who was a musician the fact that he never won a grammy but he's got three two comic book awards on the wall he his music beats. That's way more fascinating than I sold a potato gun 25 years ago. Let me tell you my story. That's inspiring. That's fascinating. And it opens up a whole new world of people. It's also tough because in our audiences, people who like me, they don't like me, right? Or they relate to me or they don't.

But when Caitlin Poland came and she did her whole story, like she's a female entrepreneur. And all of a sudden that brought all these female entrepreneurs in our world. And I had somebody else tell a story. Like it brings different segments of the world in that, that may not relate with me or with you or whoever it is. Anyway, so that kind of maybe hopefully answers two questions. Yeah, no, that's great.

Like what I'm, what I'm getting from that is like, actually, you know, in my mind I've been thinking, oh, the goal is 10 million because various people have said, oh, it's useful to work back from a revenue goal. But just changing the framing of it more towards, no, the goal is to change more people's lives with these products. And like, yeah, sure, the videos are good and sure the book is good but like really the people for example going through productivity lab and some of the people who've gone through youtuber academy have genuinely had their lives changed and are just like raving fans now yeah and if we could get like more like those are the people we're serving and shifting from that i want to get to 10 million revenue because it's fun and more towards i want to serve more people because it's fun and just nice and just like it's what i do and i need something to do to pass the time that makes it feel a lot better and probably means that i'd be less subconsciously sabotaging myself on route to yeah and then i guess the revenue takes care of you

start taking these people and you start putting them on a pedestal then other people aspire to that as well it's like oh my gosh like so much of these are bringing these people on your youtube channel they're telling their story on youtube channel other people like oh my gosh like if i'm successful maybe you'll have me. If they start working harder, like we started doing two comic club awards. People started seeing it. Then they're like, I want that. And they all started, they became more aspirational and start working harder because they wanted

that thing too. You know what I mean? Nice. Dude, thank you so much. This has been absolutely wonderful. Any final parting advice? Like we've spent a couple of hours together, so you have a sense of like what my stuff is.

Any unsolicited feedback, any advice advice anything you would say um yeah i think the biggest thing i said we need the right webinar the right funnel to sell a thousand our course like you have so much traffic and eyeballs on the front end for free that i'm so jealous of and i think converting those people through three free web class will make you money but then again the ability to turn on ads I think scaling to an extra five million dollars when you turn ads on

is not going to be that difficult the profit margin will shift you did I think you said earlier 60% profit margin like when you're doing paid ads you're close to probably 25-30%

it's more so just realizing that as you're doing paid ads profits shrink a little bit but I think getting to 10 million won't be like

so you get the ads thing working, you'll be able to scale past that a lot quicker. Does that make sense? Remember when Hermosi first joined your circle? The first call was like, Michael, if I can make 20 grand a month, I'll change my life forever. I was like, dude. I get yelled by talking that he was going to be insanely good.

I was like, if we're going to make you 20 grand a month, we did everything wrong. To get an extra $5 million in sales. And right now you're doing what, two product launches a year and you're at 5 million, you know, whatever it is. Like you turn on every group of people can buy every day instead of twice a year. Like you should at least double, you should at least get to 10 million. If you don't go aggressive with, if you go aggressive with that, I think you get 20,

30 million just by pushing it hard, you know? So I don't know. Thank you. Oh, final question um any key hires that you think like important who's to help like facilitate this should we like at the moment we're working with an ads agency but should we bring it in-house we've got about 20 people on the team about 10 on the content side and about 10 on the courses side um i wonder yeah who are some key hires to think about that's such a hard so specifically ad stuff

in the short term obviously you don't want to shift your focus like let me learn how to build a paid ad scene but over the long term it's also tough like working through an agency because agency by definition is like you have a percentage of their focus and their time which makes it harder um because ideally if you had somebody who's in-house long-term, who's looking at all the content you're making right now, how can I take that and how can I turn that into paid ads? Because you're doing more content than anybody right now. You have so much out there.

Every video you put out there could turn into four different ads. But you need someone who's able to see that. But an agency is not going to do that because they're going to come back and be like, hey, here's six scripts. They're going to give you that versus like someone, so maybe see me like somebody just an ads focused content person

on your team whose only goal is like watch what you're doing and then from there figure out what are the sound bites we can turn into ads to push to the course, you know,

and like, and pulling those things out for an agency because the agency's just not going to give you the hands-on you need. But in the short term, you also don't want to build an ad agency.

That sucks too. So maybe like having someone on your team just focusing on pulling that kind of stuff out. Honestly, I would have some... Maybe you already have this person, somebody who is in charge of the funnels, watching it, optimizing it, tweaking it, looking at stats, looking at numbers. It's funny. you know, it's, it's funny. I went to, I don't know if you know, Andy Elliott, he's very sales driven. I went to his office and he's got 90 sales guys and two people running their funnels. I was like, so fascinating. You come to my office and we've got, you know, one sales person and like 30 people working

on the funnels. Cause I'm funnel focused. I were optimizing conversion and numbers and stats and trying to figure those things out. So having someone who can do that because the difference in getting your landing page conversion from 30% to 40% doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Other than that means you get 25% more people to show up to every single webinar, which is insane. Over time, that's an extra $2 million a year by just having someone focusing on that or focusing on getting showup rates or focusing on the closed, like all those little pieces. It's just like, that's like a little,

you know, a little hinge that swings a huge door because so much traffic is coming in there and sells out the back end. Yeah. It's like having someone

who's just focused on the funnel and the optimization of it would be probably the other one that I think would be really helpful for you. Amazing. Great stuff. Thanks, man.

Good session. That was really fun.