Marketing Secrets with Russell Brunson - Family, Faith, and Business: A Deep Dive of “Atlas Shrugged” with Josh Forti (4 of 5)

Episode Date: November 6, 2024

In this episode of the Marketing Secrets podcast, I continue my in-depth conversation with Josh Forti, exploring the ideas in Atlas Shrugged and diving into the intersection of personal beliefs, entrepreneurship, and family values. Throughout this series, we’ve tackled sensitive subjects like religion, politics, and the evolving role of family, all framed within the philosophy of Ayn Rand’s classic. In this fourth installment, Josh and I examine the driving forces behind entrepreneurship, the challenges of staying true to core values, and how these principles influence both business and personal life. Josh and I discuss how our upbringings and relationships with our parents shaped our outlooks and entrepreneurial spirits. We reflect on how pivotal those early family values were to our development, particularly the roles of our fathers as hardworking role models and our mothers as sources of unconditional support. We also talk about the significant impact of maintaining a balance between masculine and feminine energy in relationships, a concept I first explored with Tony Robbins. Key Highlights: Parental Influence: How family dynamics and values shape entrepreneurial drive and personal development. Masculine and Feminine Energy: Insights from Tony Robbins on balancing energies in relationships and their importance in family stability. Entrepreneurship and Influence: The role of communication in making complex ideas accessible and influential to a broad audience. Philosophical Conflicts: Navigating the concepts of charity and self-interest in Atlas Shrugged and reconciling these with our faith and moral values. This episode is packed with personal insights on navigating life as an entrepreneur while remaining grounded in one’s values. Join us as we reflect on the intersection of philosophy, family, and business and how they shape our path forward. Don't forget to check out this awesome deal from Mint Mobile! https://mintmobile.com/funnels And if you want to enjoy the Marketing Secrets Show ad-free, check out https://marketingsecrets.com/adfree Get 70% off on Welch Equities' retail price at wealthyconsultant.com/secrets Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up everybody's Russell Brunson welcome back to the marketing series podcast today We're jumping into part four of our Atlas Shrug series as you know over the last couple weeks. I've been giving you guys access to parts of a Five or six hour long interview I did a Josh 40 back in 2020 after I first read the book Atlas Shrugged So we're jumping right now into part number four if you missed any of the prior ones Make sure you go back in the podcast and get episode one, two, three. That way you have some context of what's happening right now.

And with that said, I hope you guys enjoyed this part of the conversation. As a Pride mover, as someone who's trying to change the world, this conversation should resonate with you. Thanks so much, we'll jump right into the episode right now. In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars of my own products and services online.

This show is going to show you how to start, grow and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson and welcome to the Marketing Seekers podcast. So how did your parents, what did your parents do right for you? Like what are the things, because like one of the things that I try to say, I try to say it a lot, but I don't even say it enough. Like my parents have played a absolutely tremendous, like I don't even say it enough. My parents have played absolutely tremendous. I owe so much of who I am today to my parents, indirectly in a lot of ways. My parents didn't teach me about money or things like that.

That wasn't their gift, but the prince of hard work and family values, biting your tongue, even though it doesn't seem like I bite my tongue, oh my gosh, every day. It could do worse. Like it could be a way worse. And like some people would love that. But like, you know, like deescalating situations and like having like, I owe so much of who I am to those and like, yeah, they messed up in a lot of ways. And like, like you said, like, so what were some of the ways, like what were some of the things that your parents can write? What are the things that you remember for your parents?

Yeah. I love my parents. I was very blessed with my parents for sure. My dad, I don't think my dad was super engaged when we were younger because, and just because he was in the phase of weird and I try and figure things out and make money and like, it was different back then. He was an entrepreneur? Yeah. But he also had a job, but he did side business. So he was always trying to figure things out and make money and like it was different back then. Yeah, but he also had a job but he decided business so he was always trying to figure

things out and I saw him doing these things. I saw like the job he didn't love and I saw like him doing stuff he did love and I watched him work really hard and then when I started wrestling I saw my dad like that came the thing that made him connect to it which like meant the world to me and it was so important to him and was cool is that my dad showed up to every wrestling practice. He came to every single match. He basically he built up he built up his day job as a state farm insurance. He built up his book of business where by the time I was wrestling, he was able to take off as much as he wanted and it ran itself. He's making money and had residual income. I remember like

my dad was the only one. Like as soon as wrestling practice got done, my dad would walk in and we'd meet him to practice afterwards. Never missed a match. He was always there. I just thinking like, I want to make sure I have a business or something so that I can be like, like my dad was for me. That was so important to me. And I say he wasn't super around when we were younger. I think he struggled as a younger kids, which I understand. But I would take that phase in my life. Like he was there and he was my best friend and it was just, it was awesome. I love that. And I've been trying to have my kids now and especially times where maybe I wasn't as good of a dad, I was too busy. I'm trying to like down other port spots, try to connect more. Um, that was them. That was my, my, my dad for sure. And then my mom, um, my mom is, uh, for me,

she was just like, I think I wouldn't say my people please her, but I'm very much like a cheaper, right? Like, like, I think, I wouldn't say my people please her, but I'm very much like a cheaper, right? Like, like I think when I started wrestling and I saw my dad got closer to me and then like I would win, I saw him get excited. Like, like I wanted to win because I wanted to impress my mom. To this day, I think I still have that where like part of the reason I'm in this business, I'm doing stuff is I love when my dad sees it and just like, you know, like, like there's something I love like pressing it to this day.

Like that's just like, I love that win with my mom. It was like, she loved me even when I didn't win. Like that was something that was so foreign to me. I remember like, I'd be cutting weight for us. I had to eat in three days. I'd be so tired, so miserable. And she's like, she'd come down and sneak in my room, like, like bringing me food.

My mom, I can't eat, I'm not gonna make weight. She's like, why you just quit that? I'm like, you don't need to do this. Who you think? And she's like the opposite of my dad. And she loved me no matter what. And I didn't care that I was trying to win or succeed or didn't, couldn't care less. Like she just wanted me to be, you know, she loved me like just because I was me. And like that was weird. And but so cool as well. And saying both those principles, like it's something I've tried to, to weave

in, you know, I got two different sides of trying to weave that into my kids. And again, so far from perfect, but I think those are two things that meant the world to me that I'm super grateful for them, you know, having they doing those things for me because I still remember those things. So there is which is by the way, that's awesome. Um, there's a lot of people in this world that are growing up without dad, uh, without a mom. And like, it's interesting because like, I think a lot of my social media posts, like,

I kind of come across sometimes like that heartless a-hole, like, you know what I mean? Like, Josh, like, you know what I mean? Like you talk about like, take responsibility for your life, everybody can do anything. It's like, if you're broke, it's your fault. Like that's one of my favorite things. Like if you're broke, if you're a broken American, it's your fault, right? Like, there's like, Josh, like, you don't understand, like you grew up and your parents are like still married, like, you know, like not only do you have parents, like they're

still together and they still like actually love each other. It's not even that sort of guy. Like, it's like, you're like a percentage of the percentage of the percentage in a lot of ways. So like, what, I don't even know what question I'm asking you, but like, what would you like, where could somebody find that? And like, how can, what can we do as a society or as entrepreneurs, as like, as producers to like help those people?

Because I feel like that's a really big need. And like, it's one of those things where I'm like, one of my big struggles with this is I always want to point back to the church. I had a really awakening come to Jesus moment back when I posted, this is probably a month ago or so. And I posted on Instagram actually, and I think you liked it actually. So I know you saw it. I said, defund the media, defund fear, defund career politicians, fund orphanages, churches

and schools. Right? And like I posted on Facebook, I posted on Instagram and I was shocked at how many people were like, dude, fund the churches. They're just like, they're a bunch of pedophile people there too. They're, you know, like so many people had like such this negative view of the church. And like I grew up in the church. Like that's, that's what I knew. Like how I knew how family works is cause like I saw the, our own family. And then I saw the church family. I saw the community

and like how the church was involved in the community. And the church that I went to, after I moved out, like, Grable, Indiana, like I worked three doors down from it, and they were, that's where people went to vote, was in their gym and the fair, that's where people parked. The church was such this integral part, that word, part of the community, right?

And so when I saw all these people that had this negative view of the church, like that broke my heart because I'm like, that was my solution. Like, there are like so many things like if you don't have a dad, like you can go to the church. Like if you don't have this, like you go to the church. It's like what? And if that's your answer, like that's cool.

But like, how can we as producers of society and the people that are going out there and like making the money, how can we help those that don't have what you and I had. It's interesting because what Mormons believe is the family is the central everything. That's God's plan. Husband and wife starts a family. That's like an eternal principle, right? If you look at like the adversary, Satan, whatever you want to call him, like his job, like if he can destroy the family, like everything else falls apart. That's the war we're in right now.

Like we think we're in a lot of different wars. The war we are in is Satan is attacking families. That's it. Okay, which I want you to finish this. I have to say this though, guys, and this is not Russell saying this, this is me. This is why I hate the Black Lives Matter organization, not movement, the organization so much,

because their whole principle is breaking apart the traditional family values. Anyway, I know that's not your, I'm not speaking for Russell, just. But yeah, if you, if you Google family, the proclamation to the world, you'll see my beliefs on family. That we haven't printed out eight foot on my wall in my house. Like that's my belief. Family is central, everything. And so Satan is the way he destroys societies and nations and its world is destroy the family. And so when you see families are broken, there's single mothers and single fathers, it's heartbreaking. It's the saddest thing in the world.

And I don't know the right way to solve it. I do know that it's vitally important. I remember first time I met Tony Robbins, started learning from him, one of the principles he talked about in relationships is masculine and feminine energy. The masculine and feminine is key to like a relationship like I could go off like four hours just on masculine feminine like I'm that's like the most fascinating topic in the world. But you look at like if you ever see how Tony fixes relationships like you look at traditionally

if you had traditional counseling they're like there's a problem right there what's the symptom of the problem they try to solve the symptom the problem and they like counseling takes years because it's the symptom of the problem? They try to solve the symptom of the problem and like, like counseling takes years because it's the symptom of the problem. It's like all the issues are all, they're all symptoms of problems. The real problem is like when, when there's a masculine and a feminine and doesn't matter again, this is true with gay, straight, doesn't matter like, but feminine masculine energy, right? Take a masculine, feminine and that polar opposite, that, that's magnets that magnetize together, right? That's what attracts, creates traction, passion and everything.

What happens is you have a masculine and feminine that are attracted together, right? That's how you start, that's how any relationship starts, right? And then you look at people get married and it's interesting because what Tony talked about, so you look at typically in a relationship there's like what they call the seven year edge and why is that? And he talks about because the feminine, the way the feminine causes change is, um, how much I got somebody want to write a book on this? I just don't know. I don't know perfectly enough to, to, to become a writer, but can say, yeah, my word. I got a lot of books to write, but uh, so this out works in traditional

marriage, right? So masculine feminine, what happens is one of the ways that feminine cause change is they criticize, right? Like if, if I see this with my wife, with friends, with girls, like they want their friend to change their hair, they don't say, hey, you should get a haircut. They'll criticize to try to cause change, right? So what happens is that a feminine- Dr. Justin Marchegiani... Yo, I- wow, that's so true. So-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani... This is- this is- Dr. Justin Marchegiani... Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Justin Marchegiani... That's just one example of feminine energy. There's a million different types, right?

But like, so feminine and masculine come together. So like, this is an example. It's like, they'll start criticizing the man. But a masculine man doesn't care. Like, it bounces off them like, okay, okay, right? What happens after seven years of that happening, eventually, instead of balancing off, which is the masculine response, you start taking it personally. Oh, as soon as you take it personal, guess what happens? You are shifting physically from your masculine to a feminine.

You start shifting. What happens, you shift from masculine to feminine and boom, the attraction breaks and it starts falling apart. And then all the other problems start happening. So the problem isn't solving the fact that you leave the toilet seat up, but that you don't communicate well that the problem is that the masculine feminine attraction is broken. If you fix masculine and feminine, you can make men become men and women become women. Attraction comes back and all the other symptoms disappear. It's fascinating. And so that's from a marriage family like relationship standpoint. Okay, can I? Yes. I want to protect. I'm telling this because I want to talk about this from the family with kids in a minute. But yes.

Okay, but I want you to now give me another example of that Tony Robbins has said, because what you made it sound like there is that the way the woman does something is the thing that's causing the bond. I know that's not what you meant. It could be. I just want to make sure I want to do that clarification. The same thing with with the men who are the men are responding over and over where women now become defensively become more masculine and should be the other way. Yeah.

Sorry. That's not the only example. I was just right. The one time I just want to make sure we clarify that because I know things were taken. I come in being. Yeah. I apologize. I'm stupid.

I get it. But conceptions that make sense? Like it's the break of the masculine and feminine that causes the split, which causes the disharmony. If you bring masculine and feminine together, that's what causes attraction and causes passion and causes all these things. I look at my life, like when we were struggling in our marriage, like it's because I'm showing up feminine. When I show masculine, everything's great.

Or my wife comes in masculine and I'm masculine, we butt heads like it's fascinating and so uhm, anyway, I don't wanna get deep in this because there's so much stuff. Right, right, right. But, there's no more show, because you look at this thing like, you got a family, right? And the mother and father split, right? And then there's kids who go through the mother and father. And now, what they have is they've got very masculine person that they're learning from or feminine but not, they don't see both. And so it shifts them and then it shifts their relationship.

Like so many problems. And so I think the way we help the most or can help the most is like, Hermosie does this, Alex Hermosie does this. Like he donates his money to, do you remember the name of the charity? He got our first two heart award. It's after school kids.

So like these kids where they go to, like men who there's these kids trying to play basketball or lift weights or whatever who don't have masculine energy in their life, they come and they don't have the time and they help the kids. They're doing masculinity. So now they have, all of us, we need male and female perspectives.

Like we have to think, it's designed to have those things together. When you lose one of them, it's a tragedy. So like, I think the way we can start helping is like, how do we bring programs where, where they can see masculine energy and see the way to make a positive, not a negative thing. And like, um, cause a lot of times all they know is, you know, masculine energy left. And oftentimes there's a lot of, um, anger between, between the people when they hear talking trash about the spouse and talking trash about these traits which are like traits that are essential for them to develop and

I don't know. I don't know if that's the right answer or not but I feel like that's how we can help those things is just like help me understand like the kids who don't have a father or a mother like they need that energy in their life to understand it, to be able to, I don't know. So. What's up everybody? This is Russell Brunson.

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So anyway, I love this assessment. Go check it out at workinggenius.com and enter the promo code secrets for 20% discount. Take this test for yourself and for your team. And I promise you will change the working dynamics amongst everybody and help your company to grow. Okay, so this is seemingly unrelated to this but I think that I can tie it back in because it's a question that I think fits in here.

So do you, I'm gonna start with a super basic question which I think the answer is obvious but like we'll go down the throat. Do you feel misunderstood as an entrepreneur? I did early on, I did less so now. Why is that? When I got started, entrepreneurship has become more of a cool thing. That's true.

In the last decade, since Shark Tank and stuff. Back when I first got started, it wasn't. Everyone was confused, like, why would you do that? It is cooler. Also, it's like, I think the more you talk, the more you either alienate people or you attract people. And I think a lot of people who I have alienated have been alienated. And I think I've attracted people I've attracted.

So like my bubble of people around me are people who understand this lingo, who relate to it. So it's less hard now than it was initially. Do you ever feel so like I believe that one of my super like your superpower, like your art, your format is like marketing and funnels funnels specifically like that's like what you do. And like, I feel like you could just sit there for hours, hours and days and forever for the rest of all the time, right? Like my superpower thing that I like to do is this like communication.

I love constructing words in a way that people can understand. Right? Did you I'm sure not, but like the Kanye West interview Joe Rogan just did like three days ago, I've heard about it. Okay. So like, this has been a long awaited episode for like, every, no one thought it was ever gonna happen, right? Because it was like teased and it wasn't didn't happen. Finally happens. And so like, I see this, I had no idea it was coming. It like drops and I'm a huge fan of Joe Rogan, right? And I'm like, Oh my gosh, it is amazing, right? And I sit down and I look online

and all these people are like, terrible interview, not worth your time, couldn't get past the first 20 minutes, like anything like that. I'm like, what? So I go, and the first 20 minutes, we're kind of like, I get done with this three hour interview, just like top three interviews of all time, right?

And what's interesting is like, do you know Kanye, about like how Kanye communicates like at all? Like, do you know? Okay. So like Kanye, there's so many references I want to use. So like, like Kanye like sees the world like fundamentally differently and like how Joe describes it in there.

And the way that I describe it is like, you wouldn't know this like I said, because psychedelic is like a drug or whatever. But like imagine being on like a psychedelic drug, like in a small format, like at all times, like that's how his mind works. Like he's like sees everything. It's like expanded. And so even Kanye said, he's like, the reason I have such a hard time communicating sometimes is because I have to, like, I see things in three dimensional and then I have to put them

in, in a two dimensional conversation. Right. Now I'm not trying to compare myself the way I think to where the way Kanye thinks, but like that, this concept of like him, people think he's beating around the bush, right? When really he's just trying to explain something. Like one of the things I love doing is taking a concept like that and figuring out how to describe it

in a way the average person can understand. Cause like I live in a different world, like just like you live in a different world than the average person does, like I live in a different world and that is by choice. Like I do not see the world the way that most people do. I intentionally do not want to see the world the way that other people do.

Like everything that I do, like I will intentionally engineer where like my life is different than the average person. Cause I want to see the world the way that other people do. Like everything that I do, like I will intentionally engineer where like my life is different than the average person because I want to see the world differently. But I want to be able to communicate that in a way that they can understand. And so my question is like, do you think that there's a lot of great ideas stuck inside of producers' heads that if more people understood them and thought like that, we could change the world for the better. But because they're stuck in their head and that person doesn't know how to communicate

it well or is not focused on that, that effect never happens. Got you. Yes. So I would say, and that's why I think for me, this study, this art of like funnels and copywriting and story is so fascinating because that's what it is, right? Like I was pitching like when we have an idea in my head, it's like this big granite block, right? It's like, this is the idea. And to give it to somebody like, this is the idea. You're like I don't get it, right? Right. And then you start thinking about uh who is it? Start chiseling away at the stone, right? You start chiseling, chiseling. So eventually you have this like amazing statue, right? Of like this thing that they people can see and they can understand and they can they gravitate towards. I feel like it's the same thing with communication, right? Or

with any kind of idea you're trying to sell. Like the funnel is one thing. Like right now like hey, you should buy my coaching program. It's like, why? Like, ah, it's too big. I need to take them through a path to simplify that. So it's like a step-by-step process, which is like chiseling away. But then inside each step of the process,

there's the words and the stories, the things you communicate to simplify it, just to get more and more fine-tuned. That's why for me, when we create a funnel and we launch it, it's like taking this big granite block and chiseling down. Now it's something that, somebody can come in on this side of it, they go through a process, and by the time they're done at the end, they're taking this big granite block and chiseling down to like now it's something that somebody can come in on this side of it they go through a process by the time they're done at the end they're gonna give us money they're gonna get a product and they're gonna change like something's gonna change for them i think that that's what marketing is right it's that process of like

trying to simplify the message um and i think 100% that's why most ideas don't get out right oftentimes like i don't know how many times have had, this guy comes back to talk about, who knows, an hour or two ago too, but like four or five people get the same idea, but then one person executes on it. It's like the person who understands the communication the best is the one typically who gets it out, right?

Like how much of your life and my life has been focused on communication? And I don't necessarily like that part as much. Like it's not my favorite part, but it's such an essential tool. I remember when I was learning, when I got in this game and I was trying to sell my very first product, ZipRander,

and I was like, I put it up, I had a picture of it, buy now button and tried to send traffic and nobody bought. And someone's like, we need a headline. So I'm like, okay, so put a headline. We need, tell us what this does. And so I found some sites, I kind of modeled what they did and the people started buying. And it was just like,

it was like learning that process of how do you communicate. I remember thinking like, I never want to learn how to write, like for me it was copy, like that's what we all call back then, like I don't want to write copy, like I don't want to do that, that sounds horrible.

And I want to hire someone, but like the people I tried to hire was expensive. It was like 10 to $20,000 for a sales letter. I couldn't afford it, so I'm like, I have to learn this art of how to communicate. And like so grateful because like that's how everything we built has been is off like the communication of an idea and doing it in a way that gets people to move. How do you decide what you're going to communicate?

Like you have a lot of ideas in your head and you have a lot of different thoughts on everything and like you choose to share funnels and marketing primarily and then you have some religion in there which I would say probably like number two, maybe ish, like what you communicate. That's like it. Like how do you decide? The battles I want to choose? Yeah. Yeah. That's a good question. I think. I mean, part of it's like, what's interesting, like why did I want to do this interview? Like I read the book was fascinating, like, and I don't know the answers and I thought this would be a fun way to talk it out loud. Like this fascinating. funnels are fascinating me because like I can apply it so many things.

You know when I talk about wrestling but not the community you bump into. But wrestling I talk about that. So I think it's just the ideas that fascinate me that I feel like have the most validity and can do the most. You know, again as an introverted person I don't typically go out and have conversations with people because I'm like, uh, you know, as much as I can. But I find something like, that does cause and effect, right? That's why I practice telling my story so many times

and I'll do a podcast and think, because it's like, I know like now when I'm on stage in front of 9,000 people, the stories can get people to move because I practice, excuse me, I practice it. So I think it's, I'm putting a lot of things out in the water and then seeing what things people relate to and then I can go deeper on the ones that are like, okay, this one had an impact. There's a lot of stuff.

I remember, I remember writing first version.com secrets. There are seven or eight chapters more that never got published. I was going to publish them all. Do you have copies of those? It was like, yeah, all my best stuff at the time I knew and I was going to publish it and it was all in the book. I remember I heard an interview with Tim Ferriss and Ryan Holiday. Who's Ryan Holiday? At the time and they're both talking. Anyway, talking about their books. Both of them said that when they write a typical book, you know,

Tim Ferriss' books are like this fat. My first draft was like twice as big. It's like, it's like the make you go from good to great. It's not like adding more. It's cutting. It's like I cut two thirds of my book to give you this one. And then I think it was Ryan said the same thing. He's like, it's not like, he's like saying that my books, the final, the first draft is twice as big as the final one. Then next section is cut, cut, cut, cut. I remember going back to Doccom secrets that night and I was like, okay, based on that,

if I like, what would I cut and how would that do? And I cut seven chapters out. And after it was done, I was like so scared. I'm like, this is like, I love these things. But I was like, those things aren't that important to like get people what they need to actually be successful some of those things ended up being in dot-com secrets and experts places but yeah I wonder that first I was gonna say I wonder if she's probably the first thing or if she like had a 2,700 page book yeah and cut something out of it that's's crazy. Okay. Um, back to the question in the car. And I want to tie this back to the book. How has growing a multi-hundred million dollar,

like making hundreds of millions of dollars, having a roughly billion dollar company, being the CEO of 400 employees, like how has that changed your perspective of the world? I think so many things I could respond. I think there was a season in my life where I thought that like if I was gonna create something, if I was gonna do something, that like the way I was gonna do it by me. Does that make sense?

Yeah. And in fact, if you look at my history, the first decade of business, the businesses were about me. They were me. They were, the first decade of business, the businesses were about me. They were me. They were... I was the sole owner, the sole person.

And on this journey, when we started, it was so different. It was like, how do we... What's the team look like? How do we... Like who... Todd was my first time I had a partner. It was like, that was so scary for me. And then the greatest thing I possibly could have done, right? And then run other partners and then employees and man and like

stuff and like, I don't know, it's just, it's been fascinating just realizing that like to build this, it wasn't about me, it was about, I don't know, just that whole thing. And I think anything great, a lot of times there's a person that gets credit for it. Like Elon Musk gets credit because he's whatever Bill Gates or whoever the people have to get gets credit for it. Elon Musk gets credit because he's whatever Bill Gates or whoever the people have to get the credit for it. But it's like, you start really seeing, um, how many people are involved in making something amazing. You know what I mean?

I think that's the biggest thing for me was I started growing it and it's, it's frustrating, frustrating for me. Cause I enjoy it. I like, I like, you know, people are also meant to click funnels. I'm like, I literally don't know how to code anything. I got one dot of how to code anything. Dot of code in that word. I think maybe once I leaned over Todd shoulder put a button and then he had deleted like, you know, I think it's cool to see that like the like how many and I before fun hiking live every time we start we bring all team together and I see you know, I'm the one who's

on stage, but I am fully aware that like, not me. This is us. It wasn't for this team and these people. For all of you guys, for all your contribution, this wasn't possible. I want to always ground that because I think sometimes that the leader, whoever gets a big head where they think it's them, and I see that with a lot of people who are on big stages where they still drink their own kool-aid, they still think it's them. I I think that's my shift in the world, just understanding the great things, the things that we remember, the things that are legacies that go on and on and on. There may be a head or a person that the branding is tied to, but it's like there's this group of people that created something amazing.

How do you stay grounded? Like one of the things that I, like I am a huge fan of Russell Brunson, right? Like I, like because, like for me, like you're the person I look up to as not just, hey, you taught me how to make a lot of money, but like, hey, I wanna be like, I wanna have a character that you have. I don't wanna have, like I look at Grant Cardone, and I don't, you don't have to talk smack about Grant Cardone,

but I can, right? And like Grant Cardone is really, really full of himself, right? And like, don't get me wrong, like I've learned a lot from Grant Cardone, especially about money. Like he's changed my perspective about a lot of things. I'm like eternally grateful for that. But if like, if I grew up to be Grant Cardone, like where that was the focus, I mean, like I watched him, I was, I was there when, you know, it was the, the stadium down in Miami or whatever, right? When it was, you know, it was all about him and it was, I think he even got up on stage and was like, Oh yeah, Russell, everybody says Russell's the greatest salesman, but I'm the one that packed the house. Right. And I'm like, dude, like, you

know what I'm saying? Like, like why, why is that necessary? And so like, how do you, how do you stay grounded? Right. Because like, I think there's, it's so fascinating. You like watch different type of people. And I know Ty Lopez, for example, for a while there, it was all about Ty. And now he's gone more behind the scenes. But I'm like, each person I watch, whether it's Ty or Gary or Grant, they all have a different way about them. And you have your way about them.

The one that I see is the most grounded, is like there's nobody that's looking at you, you get up on stage and you're like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, like, right. And then you walk up and grants like, but like you just like, yeah, it's that awkward of like, Hey, I'm just over here. Like, how are you grounded in that? Like, how do you, how do you not let it get to your head? Because it would be so easy for you to shoot, get wrapped up in your own head. Someone told me it's because my wife, they said if you'd married anybody else, you had to be so big.

I think. Well, so I like met your wife for the first time today. I mean, like we had crossed paths. But I said when you're getting your haircut, I was like, so what's it like being married to Russell? She goes, he's just the sixth child of mine. I said, when you were getting your haircut, I was like, so what's it like being married to Russell? She goes, he's just the sixth child of mine. I'm like, oh boy, he's a big kid.

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and a whole year to return. You've got nothing to lose and a whole bunch of really cool cashmere to gain. So go treat yourself to some wardrobe upgrades today at quits dot com slash clicks. I think I say two things and we've had talked about this earlier, but I'll tie back to like the first one is that I am fully aware that these ideas are not mine. Right? Like I didn't invent the funnel. I didn't invent any of the stuff in there. All I know is that I was on a path in a journey

and I was given the thing and the next thing and I was like freaking out and I was putting them together and like, that's part of it. Like this stuff's not mine. It's stuff that was given to me and tested. And so like, I'm so grateful for that. Like it's never been like, oh, look what I invented. Like, that's so annoying, because it's not, right?

Like, these are, again, come back to these ideas, these thoughts, these desires, these things that were given to us. And so I think that's the first part. The second part of it is, and I see this a lot in people in my world who, they have some of success, and then they're like, this is my person. I made them a bajillion, you know,

and like, I hate that too, because it's just like, like you helped them in a piece, but like, they did the work. Like, I'm very careful like to always, like when I'm talking about any of our success stories, like I didn't make that person, like we had this super cool opportunity to be a piece of their journey, right?

We helped them give them some ideas and a tool, but they're the ones that kill, like I don't know what it takes to build what they're building. Like, I didn't do that, they did that. And like, I'm grateful that they did takes to build what they're building. I didn't do that, they did that. And I'm grateful that they did, and I'm even more grateful that I gotta be a little piece of that, I gotta be part of that journey,

I gotta see that and just have the impact of like, oh my gosh, because I killed myself and wrote those books, and because Todd killed himself and wrote software, and I was able to communicate it, they're able to do this thing, and it's not all me. I fully realize it's not all me. I know what every entrepreneur has to go through to be successful and it's not a mentor who gives you everything. It's just like a lot of people who are peace and I've had mentors

who gave me a piece that I'm so grateful for but then they try to take all the credit like oh this is when and I hate that too and so I think I think those two sides. Number one is like again I don't think these ideas are are something I came up with. They're they were given to me and I was just stewarding them because I was able to aggregate them and there's the thing. And then number two is just my belief that I didn't help anyone. Even when you said, you and Katie, I felt awkward.

Like, oh, I didn't do anything. Luckily, some of the stuff that resonated with you and is a little piece of your journey, I'm so grateful for that. The fact to see you do stuff now is so much fun for me to watch you. And like just knowing like, man, because he bumped into me, like maybe something happened and now he's doing this stuff and this work.

It's so cool seeing how you're impacting people. And I think those are the reasons why my head gets big because I don't think it's me. Um, I'm grateful that I get to be a piece of it, of the journey. Um, but I'm not the creator of it. All right. I want to look back to the book. Can we talk? Can we just read it? You guys want us to read it to you? What was your like, what was the thing that fascinated you about it? Like when you box me, dude, you were like, dude, I read it and I'm geeking out about I just want to geek out about like what like what about it? How'd you so fast? Like what

do you want to geek out about it? Because I have a question that I want to ask like later on about it. But like, what was the thing that like just made you geek? There are a lot of things. I think the biggest thing that I was really excited we talked about earlier was just, I know, that's good. The biggest thing earlier, yeah, the biggest thing earlier was just this, this cause again, if those who are tuning in late, uh, in here, uh, there's a whole, it talks about greed, right? And that, that concept of greed versus charity, like, um, again, the book very much is like greed is good as thing that causes production and you should care about yourself and then good things will happen. Like you will create jobs and everything. Everybody will take care of themselves as long as you're,

you're, you're caring most about yourself, which I thought was kind of cool. But then also I had the other side of, uh, with like my beliefs in Christ and Christianity and all these things like that where it's just like, Oh, like how does that reconcile with faith, hope, charity and love and like, you know, serving everybody else and like, and so that was like, that's probably the thing that got me the most, I think that I keep, I think about that a lot, especially in politics.

Cause again, I'm not deep into politics. I'm not gonna talk about who I'm voting for or not voting for, it doesn't matter. But I see that on both sides. Cause I feel like on the Republican side, you see a lot of this stuff like this. And then on the Democrat side, you see a lot of like the charity stuff and you and and again and my notes I

wrote this actually initially because I want to talk about it's like I'm a big believer that like there's not like a right and wrong there's there's good in both sides right there's not a right nor like right or wrong side yeah like there's there's like things are messed up on both sides. Like, like I think that there's, it's just how, it's how the world works. Like Satan and like there's eternal struggle between God and you know, Satan and, and, and Christ. Like this is always happening. So there's two sides and there's like, there's, there's God like principles and things on the right that are amazing. And then there's Satan that's twisting things and jacking up sitting on both sides like I see everyone fighting like tooth and

nail I'm like I bet you if we all sat down the majority of all issues we'd all agree on but then it's like these fringe things that caused like so much hatred and fighting and it drives me crazy and I think that this book's a perfect example like what I believe so much in some of these principles but there's also like the opposite principles I also believe it and they're both right. And it's like, and that's what, you know, I mean, if you miss the being part of the interview, we talked more about that, but it's like the greed,

the growth and contribution that transition is like the key that just fascinates me. Yeah, so like what part of the, like what part, what parts of the book contradicted the most with your faith? Like what part of the books did you have like the most, the hardest time with because of your faith? Yeah, the producers in the book, the minds, the people that I connect with, because like that's who I self identify as a producer,

someone who's obsessed with like production and creating and like, right, like I relate, so Hank Reardon, Dagny, like all these people, like I relate, like they're cut for my same cloth. And it's as they're growing this stuff that they didn't give back, that they didn't, like that's the best thing. I felt like they weren't rounded out characters.

I think that's the biggest thing for me. It's just like, I don't wanna be, first I was like, I wanna be Hank Reardon. He's freaking the man. He's crazy. Like, yes, that's who I wanna be a fan career and like he's freaking the man. He's right like like yes That's all I want to be the other I wanted to see him Have like that change of heart where he's Christ like yeah

I have his own free will not because the government came with the gun and told me that pay taxes Wanted to see his character develop and realize that oh my gosh like I should be serving people because I love them not because the government's forcing like Like that's that's the piece. I wish cuz that's that's like never I mean it like never took that turn like the book it was like you you almost like expected it and then it didn't happen they got worse and worse and worse and then they wait to everything's like people are dying everything collapses and then like the lights in New York go out and they're like okay now we can come back and build now we can come back and build but like even when they come back and build it was built like by our new law of right of like basically.

So actually one of the things that's fascinating about that was, um, was it in cash? It was towards the end when was it gall? I think it was called who was like basically, yeah, I think it was during speech when he was like, um, all we, all we wanted was like, we, we gave the minds of the side to like, we gave all this stuff to you guys basically. And like kind of being like God there, but like, we get like here we did, we, we created all this stuff. We created these jobs, we created these resources, like we gave it to you and all we wanted from

you guys was for you to let us be in our own head. Like let us, our minds be free and not be controlled by anything else. And you took all that and not only did you take it all Then you said no you're bad and we're gonna take that away, too and so we're all going on strike because of that and like I You were you write that so much and then it's like yes But then they explain how they live and it's like you expect them to have that change of heart But it's rather but no

It's because we are amazing and because we are the great minds and we must live by this code. It has nothing to do with like actually giving back or actually contributing to society. It's like they didn't care about contributing to society. That just happened to happen. Yeah. Which is cool. Which is, which is why again, government should let producers produce because the by-product is really good. Right? Right. For everybody. It's like that part is so much I relate to. But then, and part is probably because Ayn Rand didn't believe in God. Like, so that wasn't, you know, I mean, it's like

that wasn't part of her values. And so it's tough because she, she read that. I just, I just wish at the end of the book it would have been like, and then Hank Rood realized that he could help all these people himself. And so he built orphanages and changed all these kids' lives. And you're like, yes, he's like, ah, like that would have been amazing. You know, he thought about, oh, you are, and he went and donated money to save all his children. But he did it on free will because he had that change of heart, because that's like, I don't know, I don't want to die at the end of my days,

and like I produced and created jobs, but like I didn't care about people. Like, ah, like I feel like that missed the mark. Hank Redden, you say is the person you're related to most in the book? Yeah, I think so. Um, I wanted to be a Francisco though. He's pretty sweet.

Who do you think? Who do you think I related to most of the book? Ooh. Um, who was it? Is a relatively main one. Was it? You're close. Oh, was it Francisco?

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. He was cool right from the beginning. He, he like fascinated me and like I knew like right when like that she introduced the plot twist of where like he like ran off and became the playboy or like picture of himself as a playboy or like whatever. Like I knew right then and there, I was like, I don't know what the plot like I don't know

what the connection is buying like no, this is going to come back around. It's like not going to be how it seems. Right? Like, because like someone like the mind doesn't shift and like, then he stays in the scene or whatever. But like, he fascinated me because I, like he's striking me as someone, Hank Redd didn't care about the crowds. He did not at all. Right? Like he hated going to the wedding. He hated going. Like it was by force that his wife would like drug him out there. That one time it was always like, I just want to work in my office. Like I'm actually not like that.

Right. I actually much more the, like I do like the crowds, but I don't like the crowds because like I need praise it. Like don't get me wrong. Like I like being on stage and you know, like doing this type of stuff. But like for me, like I like the crowds because I'm, I love people and I don't, it's funny because I like, I actually don't get along with a lot of people. Like I'm like, whenever I go to the airport, I'm like, I don't, it's funny because I, like, I actually don't get along with a lot of people.

Like, I'm like, whenever I go to the airport, I'm like, I will pay whatever it takes, like put me on a plane first, the least amount of people I have to deal with, whatever. Cause like, I don't want to have to interact with people that I want to interact with. But like, I love like studying and understanding people's minds. Right. And for me, one of the reasons I am so fascinated by Donald Trump is because of how he can control the crowds. Like you look at his rallies, dude, like you can't ignore them. Like they're just huge. Um, uh, my, uh, fiance's,

um, parents, like they went or her mom and, um, her mom and her he went yesterday, I think it was last night to Omaha, like 29,000 people showed up in the bitter cold over on like a last minute. And I was like, to, you know, and like that type of control or not even control, but like that type of influence to be able to go through, like what is it that makes people go and do thatinist, and I was like, to, you know, and I'm like, that type of control, or not even control, but like, that type of influence to be able to go through, like, what is it that makes people go and do that? Like, and so like, Francisco, in the book, like he, like he was the partier guy, and like he went, and he was with the crowds, and he was very good with words,

and articulated, and then he, but he sold me, like, at that wedding, and I'm telling you. But like, because to me, there's more than two ways, but like, super simplified down, there's like two ways to, to affect, like, influence people. There there's, there's more than two ways, but like super simplified down, there's like two ways to, to affect like influence people. There's one, which is the indirect, which is like build a software company. It's build a product, it's build an iPhone, right? It's like, you're not directly influencing them with like your words or like whatever,

like, but it's like influencing their behavior by creating a product, by creating a service is going to go on and change the world. And then the other way is to actually go out there and change them with your words. Right? And so that's why like Jesus, for example, Jesus didn't build a product, right? He did it through his words, kind of sort of, but like, to me, that's so fascinating. And I'm like, if I can figure out how to do that, that's how I can affect real change in the world. And it's funny because like, you've, you have had such a massive influence on my life, but

probably like a year and a half, maybe ish into like me knowing like click funnels. I was like, man, Russell's doing it all wrong. And because and I had this, this thing like if Russell would communicate more about stuff besides funnels, like he would have a bigger impact. And like, I had this like limited belief of like, this is the only way you can influence impact people is by like, going out there and actually like speaking to them. Right. But like, that's my super proud, my gift. So like, in the book, Francisco was the one I think that best represents like my style of like trying to go out and do things. I find it interesting by Hank greater with you because I think it's like, I'm saying I gotta be in here building funnels, doing some stuff.

Right. Like there's scenes of Hank in the book where he's sitting there looking out over the factories at night and he sees, he watches like the steel being poured is glowing and yeah he's like enjoying that. Like for me it's similar where um like I do the stage thing and things like that um I get less value like even interactions are but like I love I spend a lot of time on social media night just looking at the people that I know are in our world and watching what they're doing because that's like me watching the steel like like I'm not like my my mission is not to go teach people how to do what you do, right? I'm giving you like a blow horn so you can go do it. Yeah, it's like that's more fascinating to sit back and it's funny for my wife. I advance it drives her crazy because then it'll happen. It'll

get done and then I screw you off. I don't want to like talk to anybody. I sit in the room and I just like watch like what people would take away and then who they're talking to. Like I spent a lot time just like watching that's for me like looking over the steel like I gave them a trumpet or I gave them a blow horn and now their message is going out there I just kind of watch it. So for me it's like I don't want to teach personal development and this and that that but I want to like empower give these tools or whatever tools are so that so that you

can and and you know whoever all the other influencers are to be able to do those things. That makes sense. Like I got an amplifier. I'm an amplifier of other people's messages. And my message just happens. Like, here's the amplification that you need to amplify your message. Yeah. Letting everybody else go and do it.