Marketing Secrets with Russell Brunson - From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty

Episode Date: December 2, 2024

Recently, I had the privilege of sitting down with Simon Devlin, a brilliant entrepreneur from Australia who’s mastered the art of blending offline and online business strategies. Simon runs a unique cigar business that combines the exclusivity of private clubs with powerful marketing principles. What makes Simon’s journey remarkable is how he has applied continuity, ascension models, and direct-response marketing to transform a traditional retail business into a thriving membership-based community. In this episode of the Marketing Secrets podcast, we explored how Simon started with a small cigar shop and grew it into a luxurious experience with tiered memberships, private lounges, and engaging customer interactions. From his early inspiration through Dan Kennedy’s teachings to building a systemized return path, Simon shares strategies that any entrepreneur can adapt—whether their business is online or offline. His approach to creating an unforgettable customer experience while driving retention and loyalty offers lessons that are both practical and profound. Key Highlights: Building a “return path” to ensure customers keep coming back, even in traditional retail. Transitioning from offering products to creating membership offers with unique perks. The power of hiring for the “service gene” to deliver exceptional customer experiences. How a cigar business grew continuity with engaging ascension models, from lockers to luxury experiences. Applying these offline strategies to online businesses, including creating personalized “lifetime value calls.” This episode is packed with actionable advice for anyone looking to build a lasting connection with their audience and drive consistent revenue. Tune in to discover how you can apply these principles to your own business and take your customer relationships to the next level! And if you want to enjoy the Marketing Secrets Show ad-free, check out https://marketingsecrets.com/adfree Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Two freshly cracked eggs any way you like them. Three strips of naturally smoked bacon and a side of toast. Only $6 at A&W's in Ontario. Experience A&W's classic breakfast on Now. Dine in only until 11 a.m. Sure, I could tell you winter's coming or that it brings cold dry air, but you already knew that. What you might not know is that Dove Deep Moisture Body Wash

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slash Marketing Secrets podcast. We're still in the middle of transition with the names, but I'm excited to be with you guys here today. We are actually at the PrimeMover mastermind meeting here downtown Boise, Idaho. And before the event started, I was looking at people who were coming to Boise and I was like, I want to do some interviews. and the person I pulled for you guys this time is really fascinating someone from Australia I'll announce his name during the official intro but what I think you're going to get a lot of benefit from this one is he's got an offline business selling cigars and he's using continuity and he's using offers and he's using all the things offline a lot of us internet nerds do online but he's doing offline at a really cool level.

He's using Ascension, he's doing like a whole bunch of really cool things. But then secondarily, a lot of you guys who have online businesses, you have online continuity or membership sites. Some of the things you'll get from this conversation are really fascinating on ways you can increase your retention, get your stick rate, get people to not cancel,

get people not to message your support desk, which is the greatest thing of all, and a whole bunch of other things. So I really enjoyed this conversation. I'm excited if you guys jump in to learn about continuity income and both online and offline, how it's gonna change your life. In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur

to selling over a billion dollars of my own products and services online. This show is gonna show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets podcast. I'm excited to be hanging out with Simon Devlin from Australia all the way here in Boise, Idaho, right? I'm very excited to be here. I'm glad to have you here too, man. So this is a podcast I'm actually really excited for because I've been watching you now for a

couple of years. You came into the Dan Kennedy world, right? After we bought Dan's company, yep, you came to a mastermindmind Boise and then at the most recent super conference you were in Lederhosen on stage. So I got to kind of know you a little bit through that but I've also been watching you and your business for a little bit and so I'm excited to to get to know you a lot better and your business and some of the things you're doing that are unique. I think a lot of times when I have people on this podcast we're solely like internet marketing nerds whereas you have a business that's a little bit different, but you're using similar principles and stuff, which I think will be a lot of fun.

So to start off, we do want to tell people a little bit about your background, your story, what your business, I know you got a lot of stuff you're doing, but what your core businesses are. Yeah, so I started my business back in 1997, importing, wholesaling and distributing cigars. So I have retail stores in Australia and a private club as well. Like a cigar club? A cigar club, yeah. So it's a physical location, you know, where people pay an annual membership fee to be a member.

It's a great, great community. And we also distribute cigars for some of the biggest brands in the world. And we do retail online as well. So I have a different separate business, which is, I started a couple of years ago to try to do something a little bit different with a different character to sell cigars online. And yeah, it's been an incredible journey. It was 2010 that I actually first found Dan Kennedy and started learning about. So 2010 was Kennedy.

When did the cigar business start? Started in 1997. Okay, so three years, wait, no, 13 years later. 13 years later, interesting, okay, how'd you find out initially? What was the I was actually a guy? That I met it was actually a basketball Australian basketball who actually played for the Australian team his name Damien and I met him we had lunch and we had these amazing conversations and we had sort of similar philosophies And he

said, you need to meet a mentor of mine. He lives on the East Coast of Australia and you're going to absolutely love him. And his name was Gary Dean Atkins. And so I go to the other side of the country. One time I meet this guy and I'm like, wow, this guy's amazing. He's got similar sort of philosophies. Anyway, he me a book which was Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz. One of the greatest. Yeah and Dan Kennedy and that of course blew my mind. Oh you got the co-author version with Dan. The co-author version with Dan and then I was like who's this guy?

Dan Kennedy guy and so then I searched him online and I found the ultimate sales letter. And I read that book and then I was like, oh wow. I miss a lot of cigars. Yeah. And I was like, up until that point in time, I thought, hey, I'm pretty good sales guy. But then that just changed my world, just all the different pieces of it. And then I just started buying everything I could have. It was GKIC days back then where it was was also piecemeal and I was buying, you know

CDs and DVDs and just consuming it all and I saw the entire bookshelf old Dan Kenny's CDs and DVDs I I was the same way. So the other day I got a young guy working for me and I'm teaching him marketing I'm giving him a marketing apprenticeship in the moment and I was like, oh I need one of the things wasn't in the whole. I said that to him. I'm like, do you have a CD player? And he's like, uh, CD player. So I go online and buy like a DVD player and I buy a stack of blank CDs and I'm like, I'm going to burn it. And then I can't wait this out. That's so awesome. That's why I learned who though I bought every course, every manual, every CD, every DVD and that's like you're glued to it. You know, driving CDs or TV with the DVD watching to learn, you know, back in the day that's

how we all consume stuff. But it was so exciting. Okay, so I'm Mormon. I've never smoked a cigar in my entire life. So what should I know about cigars that I don't know? I think the biggest thing is cigars are all about flavor and taste. So people think, and this has been a problem in Australia, and when I actually started the cigar business back in 1997, you couldn't buy cigars anywhere.

It wasn't part of the culture, whereas it had been more part of the culture in the United States. People just saw it literally as a big cigarette. Now I've never smoked cigarettes in my life and never will, but cigars are actually about flavor and taste. You don't actually inhale a cigar. You actually just draw it in your mouth and you blow it out. But I think the true value of cigars and why so many people smoke them and successful people

actually smoke them is people think it's a status symbol, but it's actually because it's the only time that really busy people stop. Because it actually takes time to enjoy a cigar. Generally, we don't say smokers enjoy a cigar generally you don't say smokers have we enjoy a cigar it's there is a rhythm to the to the breathing almost you know I often say it's like a form of meditation you know and when you can share that with other people yeah it's it's pretty amazing experience does it have like nicotine tobacco similar stuff like that in it or yeah it does… You're not going deep into your lungs.

Yeah and so the thing is about nicotine is what makes it highly addictive in cigarettes is the other chemicals that they add into cigarettes to make the increase of the uptake of the nicotine into the bloodstream. So that was the movie with Russell Crowe, the insiders was all about is how they worked all that out. So I was thinking about this actually this morning. So I smoke cigars, I love cigars, I would have, on average, a couple of cigars a day, which is which is a lot of cigar. Like most people might have one cigar a week kind of

thing. I left home a week and a half ago, I haven't had a cigar. You're not like going crazy. And I hadn't even thought about it, you know. So I really, really enjoy the experience, but I don't feel the need to want to have a cigar. So yeah, it's interesting. It's a very, very enjoyable pastime. My only experience with cigars is Mark Ford and Rich Sheffrin did a mastermind event and Mark Ford, Michael Masterson, aka Mark Ford, he's got a cigar bar in Florida. And

so that was where the event was at. So we all flew out there. And there was like 300 internet marketers jammed in this little tiny room and everyone's smoking and like video and filming and everyone's like influencing. It was just like, it was total chaos. But it was, you tell like it was a cool vibe and people were hanging, you know, like when there's not 300 people jammed in a little tiny room

it's probably like a really cool situation. Yeah, yeah, the smoke can get a bit much there and the eyes come water a little, I imagine 300 in a room. Yeah, so my question, first question then, so you went for 13 years running a business before you met Dan. How did it, so how did that part of the business change and transform you went from like

running a traditional business to like applying Dan Kennedy style marketing into a cigar business? Yeah so it really it started out as a well it started initially importing, wholesaling and distributing cigars and I actually had a had a business partner at the time that I had in the early days. And I found that he wasn't my kind of guy and we didn't really know each other. Perhaps our values weren't quite aligned. And we kind of split and he took over

the wholesale distribution at the time. And then I took over the retail side, which was in a tiny little cigar shop in a little beautiful little alley called London Court in Perth. And that shop is so small I always joke that you have to go outside to change your mind right so it's this tiny little shop and then so really I in 2002 as almost like a one-man band. And, you know, just learning, learning how to have team members, learning how to, you know, make sure that you've got the right cigars and teaching people and those sort

of things. And that progressed and eventually I put on some more team members and I kind of worked out, well actually I had a problem. So first of all I put on some team members and their sales were nowhere near what my sales were. They were just, I couldn't understand. You know I think it's not that hard you guys, come on. Yeah and I hired people that were passionate about cigars so I at first I thought oh is it technical knowledge and then it was like okay no it's not it's not the technical knowledge um so what is it and then I started observing what it was about my own interaction that was different.

And what I realized was I never actually talked about cigars with the customers first of all. I actually talked about them and I got to know them. And then eventually we would get round to cigars. Like there was a different level of engagement. And by that time we'd kind of made friends, if you like. And you know, that whole thing, people made friends if you like and you know that whole thing people want to do business with people they know and like.

So then I said oh great that's all I need to do I need to teach my guys how to build rapport right like how to and so I started to create this idea of an engagement funnel so rather than a sales funnel like how to truly engage with the with customers and clients when they came in. And I taught them this. And but the sales that I got a bump, but I didn't get to where I definitely thought we should be. So I, I was a bit sneaky. I actually there was a it was a tiny little shop and I would hang out just around the corner from the shop and actually listen to their interactions to see actually what was actually happening. And the interesting part was is it just sounded really clunky.

Like it sounded put on. Like the way they were interacting was just, you you know natural. Yeah, it wasn't natural That's not what they naturally did and therefore they weren't getting the benefit out of it. And I was like, okay So I actually need to hire a different type of person. I actually need to hire someone who most naturally does that someone that was more similar to me and and that's where I started developing this idea of who that person was. And eventually it evolved over a number of years where I realised that person is actually someone we call, that has the service gene. So someone that has not only the desire but the innate need to want to look after people. And that was quite a point where I turbocharged my business.

Because then I had a system for finding the right people. And then when I found them, I taught them how to fly with their most natural, what they do best. And so my business really started to expand fast because people were having incredible experience. They were getting incredible engagement. It was actually, it started out in that little cigar shop and on a Friday afternoon, people would come and they would smoke cigars inside the, and you could smoke inside back then, they'd smoke cigars inside the little shop and also in the London Court alleyway as well and they'd bring a bottle of wine and it became this huge thing until some Fridays there would be 30 or 40 people kind of hanging out there because they were coming for that community

and that engagement as well. So that was where I really worked out that whole experience and engagement circle. But what I was kind of missing was how do I consistently get them to come back again and again? And it wasn't until 2010 when I discovered Dan Kennedy and magnetic marketing that the next piece of the puzzle really fell into place.

And that was the return path. That was having a system to get people to come back again and again. That whole number one reason why people stop doing business with you is they forget about you and you constantly sticking up your hand and saying, I'm here, I'm here. Don't forget about me. Right. And I hadn't actually done that. The experience and engagement, that's the rocket fuel that can turbocharge the return path. But that was the next step. So then I started thinking about how can I add different pieces to the puzzle?

And then that eventually evolved into into a membership. It actually started with private cigar keeps, putting private cigar keeps in the next evolution of our store. Is that like a locker? Yeah. They put their own stuff in? Yeah. And I'm like, oh this is this is like a little real estate play, right? Like a tiny little box you can charge them an annual fee. So how that were you, how much would you charge people for that? So look I I think originally when we originally opened, so that that Subiaco store we opened in 2000 and 2006, sorry, no, 2003.

And I think we were maybe charging like five, $600 a year for the keep. It was a small amount and it was us dipping our toes into what would people pay? You know, like I think often as business people and marketers, we always undervalue it, right? And we're testing, you know, how much people would actually pay for it as well.

Then I guess the next evolution was, so that was in 2003. In 2006, the smoking laws were changing. We actually had a, we'd built a joint venture with a private club in Western Australia, which was the oldest private club at the time. And we built a cigar lounge as a joint venture with them called Churchill's. And they had a membership business, you know, they were a private club. And the smoking laws were changing and we weren't going to be able to have it there

anymore. We'd opened another store in Subiaco, so that was in 2003 that I was talking about before and we worked out we needed another location and there was an opportunity across the road. And I thought, okay, maybe we build a private club at the back of the retail store. And we make it really, really discreet. And I, as often as marketers do,

I sold it before I'd made it and sold these memberships. So I sold these founding memberships, which were based around the keeps. We had originally 60 odd keeps in there. And you had one of these keeps, you had access to a private lounge behind the retail store, which has swipe cards and like nondescript doors, you know, it was kind of get smarty and it's how you get through to the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. And that that became our private club. And so 2010, I had this private club. But we had one level, you know, and I hadn't really worked out,

we were under selling it. And it hadn't It was 500 bucks a year still at that point? did you get a shit change now that you had the club? No, I mean our initial membership was like $550 a year, right? We hadn't really worked out that whole thing and then learning for the first time about ascension and you know ascension equals retention and you know and the different ladders and you know, ascension equals retention and you know, and the different ladders and you know, that sort of thing and then going, oh, okay. So I need to stop making this about the keep, about the product.

And now I need to make this about an offer. You know, all the different things that we actually add into that offer stack and call it membership rather than just your locker. Locker, yeah. Right? Your locker. What's up everybody?

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And I promise you will change the working dynamics amongst everybody and help your company to grow. I have a question because there's a place in Vegas, I get all my clothes done and they have a locker system like that where they in the locker, everyone's got their own whatever like whatever they want to keep in it. It usually just looks like there's a liquor bottle and some other stuff that they can have.

So my question for you is like, so people would buy cigars and they put their own cigars there. So when they carry them back and forth, they just have it there. That's the whole reason there, right? Dr. Justin Marchegiani So you'd sell them the cigars and then they would place it in the locker. Dr. Justin Marchegiani The stores. Dr. Justin Marchegiani When you come hang out with us.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani Absolutely. And when you come out and they could put a bottle of whiskey in there or they could put, you know, you know, some would have their locker absolutely full of cigars and then others would come in and their locker would be empty and they would just buy a cigar on consumption as well. But they had that, you know, and it, you know, it gave us different things to sell as part of the membership and as part of the office.

I keep thinking, because I have an event center that we're launching and it's like a library museum thing. I was like, wouldn't it be cool to have, when I saw the one in Vegas, I was like, that'd be such a cool thing. I'm like, what are the people gonna put in there? Put their book in there that they wanna read and they come back, you know, I'm like, I don't know. But it's crazy that'd be such a cool thing. I'm like what are people gonna put that? Put their book in there they want to read and they come back you know like I don't

know but it's crazy they would buy a cigar from you and put like I could sell a book in there they could store the book. Yeah well we could do a JV and I could sell cigars and they could put some cigars in there maybe a little bit. So fascinating. Okay so started there and then you started bundling and offer stack in other stuff memberships you could increase the value, right? Yeah and we started adding in different products to our store as well. It went from being a cigar shop to a men's luxury gift store where we were selling writing instruments and beautiful writing instruments and we were selling you know luggage and wallets and you know great great things like that so it

really evolved into being a what I call a big boys toy store but still always had a heavy focus on the cigars and but all the beauty of cigars is actually the toys that go along with it you know the different cutters and lighters and humidors and they're just beautiful accessories as well. So we started selling, you know, all of those products as well. And then just kept adding to the membership. So, and realizing that we could keep adding membership levels and then our members would want to ascend. Now because we did the experience

and the engagement part so well, they just love hanging out there and it's become quite an incredible community. We're just an amazing bunch, predominantly men, though women are incredibly welcome as members and we and we do have some fantastic ladies as members it tends to be that this they it's the men that generally join enjoy the cigars more just by their nature but yet we've got an amazing amazing group of members there we walked there what is so

what are the levels look like? What do you charge these levels? Like what are people getting at these levels? Yeah, so it's evolved over time. So first of all, there's a joining fee. So we charge a joining fee. So the joining fee is currently $995. And then they, and then there's the different levels. So we've actually changed it recently.

So we used to have a bronze level of membership but we've done away with that. And the opening level of membership is a gold level of membership. And with that they get their private cigar keep. They actually get a 10% discount on everything in the store as well. And they also, we added things into the stack, which are from outside vendors, which is a really, really good thing.

So if you go to this restaurant, you get an entree. If you go here, you get that, or you get an entree, you know, if you go here, you get that or you get access to a private dining room or you get access to different things as well, which we found was really, really valuable to add in to the stack as well. So that's gold. They pay around about $1,600 a year.

Then we have our platinum. So they get everything obviously that's in gold. Plus they actually get a whiskey keep. So actually, so the cigar keeps, there's two walk-in humidor rooms with private cigar keeps. So there's now 500 private cigar keeps. We started out with you know 60 and the platinum members actually get a whiskey keep as well which is actually inside the lounge so that is a keep which actually has like a like a mesh to the front of it and it's lit up and so you can see what bottles they have in there in their keep and they can keep whiskey in their wine or soft drink,

whatever. We obviously don't mind on that. But they also get four platinum member lunches a year, which are special lunches that we actually host in the lounge itself, and they're just fantastic. They're some of my favorite events. Just a great bunch of guys. We now have about a hundred Platinum members, but it started out as a very, very small group. And they're fantastic days where we have three cigars and we have a huge amount of food, a lot of barbecue, American style barbecue stuff as well. Got a great guy barbecue events, Australia they look after us amazing and Little bit of wine a little bit of whiskey as well

and of course now we made it kind of a sales event where we we have a Particular raffle item which will be something really really special hard to get or you can't get If you purchase a certain amount of boxes of cigars on the day, you can actually go into the drawer for that as well. And you get a platinum members jacket. Oh, so which is a smoking jacket, which is really cool. And of course, you get a platinum members pin. We follow the formula, the platinum members pin and platinum members card as well. All those things which are really, really important. And then we have platinum plus, which is sorry, platinum doesn't have the jacket platinum plus has the jacket. Again, different card, a couple of other different events as well, which are even more exclusive

because there's only a 30 or 40 of those. And finally, we have our membership that we launched this year, which actually, it actually came to me in the mastermind meeting with Dan. And it was like, I was telling him about all the memberships and all the rest of it and he's asking questions I'm like oh yeah there's a waiting list for platinum waiting list for Platinum Plus and he goes you know what that means right?

And I go yeah and he goes your membership's too cheap you need another level so we just created a Devlin's black and that's ten thousand dollars a year and we wanted to make that really extra special. So we didn't actually market that. I literally came to, I hand selected the people that I wanted in that very, very small group of 15 and I went and invited them individually and they get a beautiful Devlin's Black card which is a metal card and they get access to things that other people don't get access to. For example, Theresa, my partner and I, we go to a, we get invited every year to a special cigar dinner which is in LA which is hosted by Joe Mantegna, the actor and Andy Garcia and for their foundation and it's a bit of a who's who of Hollywood, Arnie was there last year like it's a it's a

pretty special event and it's a cigar thing and we've been lucky enough to get invited and we're like okay so if you're a Devlin's Black member you are gonna get a golden ticket to this event you get to get your way from Australia and your accommodation and all the rest of it. But you get to come with us. And we took our first group in early September and they just had most incredible time as well, which just cements that whole relationship as well. So you handpicked those people

and invited them personally. It wasn't like a here's a sales letter. Did, what was the close rate? Did you get all of them? invited yeah there were they were just there were two guys that because of their circumstances they couldn't and they I know they really really wanted but it was because of their personal circumstances at the time and I can really my close rate come on yeah yeah and like the first you know the first five I was like

you're like no one's gonna say no. I am and I'm batting a hundred percent here. I'm the greatest ever. Yeah I'm the greatest ever. You know and we we did it the guys will listen this podcast and be like hey bugger. I knew what you were doing. But we had these Devlin's Black cards made and I put individual numbers on them. But I actually, before I went and sat down with these people, I had their name written already engraved on the card. I can't not say no. And so, you know, I'm going through my perfect webinar pinch and and then I and you get this card and I hand it over and they turn it over and their names on it as well. And look, the guys, the guys were amazing. They just really appreciated

being invited to it as well. And, you know, some guys were like almost to tears, you know, like, wow, you've included me in this, which was really, really cool. Because the truth is they're actually my buddies as well. So it's, yeah, but it's great. If you can offer that next level, and I'm sure you have it with your Atlas group and your other groups as well.

So cool. So if somebody cancels or leaves or doesn't re-up, do you take the jacket and the cards and the pins back or they get those forever? No, we take them back. Do you really? Well, you know, let me take your coat back. Yeah. Well, you store it at Devlin's.

Oh, gotcha. Yeah. So that's gonna be a huge pain of disconnect knowing like, oh man, this is my... And that's what you have to do, right? It's the pain of disconnect. It's like With the Devlin's black everyone has their own number. So I am my number is triple zero And then there's zero zero one zero zero two zero zero three I mean we've never numbered anything like that memberships before And so and now what we did is we built a whole new set of whiskey keeps. Teresa actually organized it and they were only actually installed this week.

And they're three times the size of the other whiskey keeps and they're a different color and then next to each other. And then there's a plaque on there. And everything that we do with the Devlin's Black is all their number. So it's 00002, you know, and then their surname as well. So the pain of disconnect is you want to spot you. Do I want to give up 007 or 008 or, you know, all of that as well. So in fact, even at our events, so we actually did something with the Devilins Black quite special in that we actually did,

instead of just doing the events at Devlins, we actually have a private dinner at my house, or at our house, I should say. And there, Theresa had organized, you know, they have a steak knife, which has got their number and name on it. There's a Riddell Black tasting glass, which is a completely blind tasting glass. So the glass is completely black black and it's got their name and their their number on it And you know, there's a napkin embroidered with their name and their number on it So just making things ultra special as well. What a cool experience for people I'm thinking like obviously It's funny because normally when we talk about continuity and memberships and was like all membership site

They think online really easy. Like, I don't know how this would work offline, right? And then as you spend offline, it seems so cool. Like, well, that would never work online. But it's like both these principles work both ways, right? You know, I think when I got into the Dan Canyon world before we bought the company back then, I mean, you were in it, right? GKIC had, there was like what?

There's diamond, diamond plus, gold, gold plus, peak performers, titanium, titanium, there's like 20 different levels. When I got it, I think there's like six or seven still and I was like, I can't handle all these levels. So we shrunk it down and simplified it but now we're like starting to reopen different levels but I think, you know, I want to make sure people are listening to this and you're not going to be like, oh well, I don't have a brick and mortar so I can't do lockers so it's not going to work. It's like, the concept is you create an offer at each level and like these exclusive things where people like,

they feel status, they feel excitement, they feel these things to be able to be there and that's what they're plugging into, right? It's not that it has to be a locker, it's just the concept of how you structure the offer and then how you give status and these things that people don't wanna lose. Yeah, and I honestly believe

there's not a single business in the world that you can't add a membership to. So Theresa and I have just acquired a venue which is going to be a great new hospitality venue which is not far from Devlins as well and there's great obviously synergies there. It's actually part of it is actually the worst business in the world, which is the restaurant business, right? 100% the worst business in the world But if you do it differently and add a membership into that then that changes the numbers completely You know, and so one of the things actually that I'm this is my this week thing is getting my office stack right maybe you can workshop that with me so so basically the first part to the

membership at this venue so the venue is called the embassy it's it's gonna be opening in February and it it has a restaurant at the front it also has a bar there's actually three different levels to it and it has a restaurant at the front. It also has a bar. There's actually three different levels to it. And it has a rooftop as well, which would be a whiskey and cigar lounge, which is awesome. And it has some private cellars down underneath, which we're calling the symposiums, which are private dining rooms where you're actually in a wine cellar as well. And so I'm looking for all the, what are all the different parts that I can put as part of an office stack as well.

So we'll do like a wine club to start with as well where people that love their wine, they'll open the menu, there'll be two different prices on there as well. There'll be the member price, the wine club member price and then there'll be the normal price and there'll be quite a difference in those prices. So they're like, oh, how do I get that? Oh, you need to be a member of the wine club. You know, we'll do we're about to do a founding membership for the embassy, where it'll be for probably two or three years, and we'll

we'll we're I'm in the middle of creating that stack, I'm trying to work on what to put in and what to leave out, you know. But that just changes the business of the restaurant business because going back to our model of experience, return path and offer is we do experience incredibly well. So only people that have the service gene will work in this venue. So they will be automatically engaging with people but how do we get them to consistently come back? And that is you must have that systemized return path. And that systemized return path must include a membership. Like that, I think with retail and hospitality, I've got a book coming out. Can I plug it?

Yeah, it's cool for it. Okay, so that framework, the Experience Return Path and Offer, the first book is actually on retail, and it's called The Two-Legged Stool, Why Your Retail Business is Destined to Fail. And it's because so many businesses, if they're just concentrating on the offer, which a lot of businesses do, they'll fail in the first 12 to 18 months, right?

Because if they don't have the experience and engagement sphere- People come and they'll come back. Exactly. Right? Like, what's this? Great. They concentrate on the offer. We sell cigars at this price.

This is what our store looks like. It's beautifully merchandise all around. That's the offer, right? The experience is the rocket fuel that makes people truly engaged, but it's the return path that gives you the rivers of gold. You know, that is the, yeah, that's the whole thing. So the two-legged stool is,

you've probably been to a restaurant before, you had incredible experience, you know, the food was amazing, maybe the wine list was amazing, you know, the staff were fantastic. On the way out, you said, you know, thank you so much. And the major dealer owner said, yeah, please come again. And like you've never come back. Two years later, like, let's go back that place.

And then what happens is, you hear in the newspaper, which is happening a lot in Australia at the moment, I'm sure it is in the United States, Much Love Restaurant closing its doors. And that's after three years, four years, five years. And that's because the owner's been sitting on this two-legged stool and not wondering every morning whether is it going to be a busy day, is it going to be a busy week, is it going to be a busy month, and business just continually goes up and down like that. But with different systemized return paths with all kinds of different return paths, which include membership continuity,

that completely changes. You can pay your rent. It's my goal with the embassy that we actually are making the repay payments on the building from our continuity program. So then that changes the whole dynamic. Shop deals on gifts now on Amazon. Like makeup for the beauty lover, electronics for the tech pro, and even gift cards for

the more particular people in your life. Shop great deals now on Amazon. He's a master. Featuring Patrick Gibson, Christian Slater, special guest star Sarah Michelle Geller with Patrick Dempsey and Michael C. Hall as Dexter's inner voice. I wasn't born a killer, I was made. Dexter Original Sin, new series streaming December 13th, exclusively on Paramount Plus, a mountain of entertainment. So it's funny, cause like you think about every, now every single customer's coming into your,

into your business, walks through the front door, it's like, it's compounding on the continuity over time, right, that's like what I teach in the linchpin, I'm like if you structure this correctly, like every time you sell something, it's compounding your continuity versus just a one-off sale that you gotta go pay Zuckerberg for another click and another one and you know,

this thing that we get into where it gets more and more expensive versus like if one out of 10 of those people turn a continuity member over time, that starts stacking and stacking and you know, with Cliffhorns we had that, the point we had a hundred thousand active members it's just like it's insane the revenue from that we never could have matched in bringing new people in the front door ever you know what I mean it's crazy and that's the and that is the true lifetime value right that that is

the thing I actually took our framework and wanted to know whether I could take it online so I'm kind of the opposite of going back from off down. Yeah, right. So I was like, okay, could I do experience and engagement? So I knew I could do return path and I knew I could do offer but could I take the experience and engagement online and therefore get the same kind of jet fuel propulsion into my return path. Sorry, I keep hitting the mic. And so I decided to create a completely separate cigar business.

So Devlins is our business. And call it something completely different, create an attractive character out of thin air, a guy by the name of Joe Box was called CigarBox.com.au and the attractive character is this guy called Joe Box. Is it something you know or is it like a cartoon? No, no, cartoon character. He's really awesome.

G'day mate, how are you? I'm Joe Box here. And so when we write copy, that's how we write it all, right? Like in, g'day, how are you, mate? It's kind of crocodile hunter meets, you know, cigar guy, right? Anyway, so we created this attractive character and then the only, and cause you can't advertise.

So- You can't advertise cigars? Yeah, cause it's a- Anywhere just Australia. Well, in, in definitely in Australia because it's a tobacco product, right? So it's illegal to advertise. So we couldn't do, we couldn't drive traffic. And I, and I was not gonna use my tobacco product, right? So it's illegal to advertise. So we couldn't do, we couldn't drive traffic.

And I was not gonna use my existing database, right? So because I wanted to be a completely separate business at different price points as well, mainly focused on the East Coast of Australia. So the only thing that we could do was SEO and word of mouth. So we had to make sure that every person that came in stuck, right?

So the first thing that I did was like, okay, how do we change that whole experience thing? Like you buy something online and there's no human interaction and stuff arrives and all the rest of it. So I created something that I call a lifetime value call. Initially I called it a stick call, but basically what it is is it was a welcome call.

So the first time you ordered from Cigarbox, you would actually get a phone call from a team member and originally it was me being Joe Box and literally just welcomed them to the Cigarbox family. So welcome to the Cigarbox family. So it literally, I'd call you and you'd answer and I'd say, good day, is that Russell? And you go, yeah, okay, it's Simon Devlin here.

Well, I wouldn't say Simon Devlin. I would say it's Joe here from Cigar Box. Just saw you place your first order with us and wanted to give you a call and welcome you to the Cigar Box family. Now it was not an add to cart call, which goes against the grain a little but it was plugging the experience part you're missing exactly and then we would just say to them hey

just to let you know what happens what's happening we're packing your beautiful cigars today and we'd always make sure we ship same day and we're gonna send that out and you're gonna get an email letting you know about all of that and you know do you have any questions? And they'd be like, oh wow, thank you so much for calling. Like I've never got a call before when I've purchased something online. And often they'd have questions

and often they would do their own ad to cart, but it was completely different. And then I would say to them, whereabouts are you on your cigar journey? And they might say, oh look, I'm just starting out. And we'll say, do you want us to send you some fact sheets on cutting and lighting or joining a cigar? I've been smoking cigars for a long time.

We'd say, hey, do you want us to send you a fact sheet on pairing your beverages with cigars? And they go, oh, wow, that's amazing. And then they'd get a follow-up email straight away. And then they would actually go into an 11 email welcome sequence as well. And when they got their first order, it'd have a handwritten note in there with a little gift of cigar cutter as well. Now, just that welcome call, people would write reviews before they even got the product. Like off the charts. And these reviews, I was like, I don't know if I can use them it looks like I wrote it myself. You know things like I have never

experienced service like this online before. This is you know old-school service that sort of thing. So then when we started making offers in our return path like our weekly Ligador, the uptake on it is huge all because they have a different interaction. And the other thing that happened is, you don't get as many calls, people calling up saying, what's happening with this, what's happening with that,

because you've built a level of trust that they haven't felt before. So in fact, so much so that one of the other things that we do with that whole experience and engagement is sometimes they call up and they're like, hey, my parcel hasn't arrived. It was sent with Australia Post. I can see that you guys send it. I know it's not your fault, but is there anything you can do? And we were like, yeah, no worries. Let us follow this up. And they might say, oh, I followed up with Australia Post. And they said,

if you haven't received it in two weeks, then call us back. And what we would do is we would offer to resend the entire package. And generally it's like three or $400 worth of cigars. And they'd be like, oh, okay, you just resend the whole thing? And I'm like, yeah, we just resend the whole thing. And when the second package arrives, you let us know and we'll give you a postage

to send it back to us. Now, there's a lot of trust there, right? You're trusting that people will send it back. The reason why they send it back is that first welcome call. Now, what actually happens is this. The second package always arrives the day after the other one, it's like they kind of push each other out there out of the system and then we call them and we say hey you can send it back or we'll give

you a 10 or 15 discount off the second package and you can keep it. Now 90% of the time they go all right I'll keep it. They'll keep it right but that experience and engagement they have not experienced before and it completely changes the model and we took that business from literally zero To now doing you know over a million dollars a year in a couple of years and now we're adding in the true continuity Program, which is our new thing which is a cigar of the month. So at this point that that all off there's no continuity That's just a straight. Yes So we so we have an offer that we send out every week which is called the weekly ligador which is so ligador means master blender actually most

people cigar people don't know that it was kind of a name i was looking for a name spanish master blender is called ligador which is a seven or eight stick offer and and we will throw in a couple of other things with it as well. And it changes every week. And you know, people, we just send that out and we go deep on the stories behind all the cigars as well. Like not just going, this cigar is like this and it tastes like this and we do the, we do the the storytelling, right. And that just changes everything. So now we are now launching the continuity program, which is called Family of the Leaf. So Joe we are now launching the continuity program, which is called Family of the Leaf. So Joe is always talking about brother of

the leaf, you're a brother of the leaf or fellow brother of the leaf or sister of the leaf. So we're creating family of the leaf, which is the cigar box among which you sign up for with three different levels and that's launching early next year as well. So that's cool. You know the price points will be at those three levels? Yeah so we need to really finalize it but I think it'll be 197, 297 and 597. That's a monthly or quarterly? Monthly. People have $590 a month in cigars? Do you know what cigars

in Australia are crazy expensive like because the tax is really really high like your average cigars You know fifty sixty seventy dollars really yeah. Yeah, I had no idea. Yeah Huh, sir. Yeah, it's you gotta you gotta really love them, but mind you they yeah, the average wage in Australia is a lot higher Yeah, what's your what's your margin on that? Oh should I say on maybe not? It's reasonably healthy is a lot higher than what's your margin on that? Or should I say on a maybe not? I don't know. I don't even know. It's reasonably healthy. Let's just say that. Well enough that you're in Boise, Idaho

hanging out this today. No, that's fascinating. Okay, so I wanna recap a couple of things. Number one, so your three parts you always talk about, walk through those three things again. Experience engagement. So we write as a Venn diagram because they are overlapping circles. You know, what becomes part of your experience

engagement becomes part of your return path becomes part of your offer. And the bigger you make those circles, the closer they come in together, and the faster they spin and throw off cash. You know, so it's experience, return path and offer. You know, and once you start laying that framework over your business in terms of retail or hospitality, and in fact, a number of my friends who have other businesses, they're like, no, no, no, mate, this works in everything,

but that's what I know. You will just be picking the diamonds out because you realize where you can tweak things. You know, oh we actually do experience reasonably well but now I know why that person is amazing and that person is not. You know, so we need to find some more of those people or okay I have great experience and engagement I have a good offer but I don't know where my customers are coming from. So, okay, I need to put a membership in it. So that's the other thing too,

I'm always saying to people, don't think subscription, think membership. There's a difference. You can subscribe to something and turn it on and off, but with a membership, the pain of disconnect is greater because you're actually gotta be part of something. So we actually have something called the lifetime value pyramid.

So the idea is obviously the money is in the list, right? But it's actually, the money's actually not in the list, it's in your relationship to the list. Experience and engagement is what changes that. So at the top we have customer and client. So at the top we have list, which is really cold. No one wants to say, like, Hey Russell, he's on my list.

Let me introduce him. Customer and client. Then we have herd, then we have tribe, then we have community. And finally we have the richest vein, which is what we call BFM, which is business family members. So you're part of the ClickFunnels family. You're part of the Magnetic Marketing family.

And it's where they not only feel like that, but they're treated like that as well. It's where they identify like that. I mean, that, you know, you know, funnel hackers, they're your BFM's there. And they're the most hyper responsive to your offer is where you could get them into BFM's and it's the experience engagement circle that pushes them down that lifetime value pyramid. You want the, you want to get them all to be BFM's as well. So that's the, I love it. So, so powerful powerful and I think it's really cool

to see how you did it in a local business and then now how you do it on the online. I think a lot of people online say things like how do I create an experience? They're buying on through a funnel and we ship them something, you know? Just the way you took that and weave that in is really a unique way to look at it too for everyone,

which is awesome. Yeah, I said to a man of mine, he had a purely online, actually a guy that I met, had a purely online business. And I asked him, and it was recently sizable, I said, how many people do you have in customer service? And he said, I have four. And I said, what do they do? And he's like, ah, mainly answer calls,

what's happening with this? How does that feel? You know, all the rest of it. And I said, oh, how quickly do you ship? And he's like, oh, we ship within two or three days. And I'm like, okay, take your two best customer service people and just have them call every single person on their first order

and do this lifetime value call, this welcome call, and then fire the other two people. And solve all your problems. Cause you don't need them anymore. Cause you're not going to get the inbound because they're like, oh wow,, I already know what's happening. You know, plus, I said, get all your people, put them into your warehouse, and get to shipping same day. People think that Amazon win because of price. It's not. Amazon worked out and they actually got it from really the company that

bought Zappos but they worked out they needed experience and engagement but the best way for them to do that was to get the product to someone as quickly as possible and make a no questions returns policy. They were the two things that actually matter more than price. And you know that makes so people don't need to compete on price all the time. They just need to compete on customer service and and speed of delivery. That's so cool. Well, dude, you make 25 ideas for myself. So I'm actually really, really excited. I hope everyone who's been listening to this gets ideas. Again, we have some people who are online businesses. I think the things you're doing offline

will help them but I think also there's a lot of we have a lot of offline businesses who are like I don't understand these funnel things. How could it possibly work for me? And I think you showed kind of both sides of that which is super fascinating. So I appreciate you coming in. Sharon, is the book out live? Is it live already? So the book officially comes out in February. book out live is the library. So the book officially comes out in February. It's if you go to Simon Devlin, calm forward slash book, or you can actually go to the two legged stool book.com. Either one, you can start ordering a pre copy. If they're down perfect, or some cigars to come to the shop and

absolutely great to the top level of membership. If you make the little flight out of the 30 hours to get cigars, I promise you it'll be completely worth it. And if you're in Australia, and I'm sure there are there are so many click funnels, people in Australia as well. Yeah, we're in we're in High Street, Subiaco and the new venue opens up also in early February, which is called the embassy and that's on Rockabee

Road. Very cool. Are you ever going to do the online business here in the States as well or are you keeping it local to Australia because of the laws and regulations? Yeah, the laws and regulations. Actually what I'm working to now in the States is why I'm coming here is really the coaching information business. I worked out that framework and I worked out how badly it is needed in retail and hospitality.

And I really came to the Renegade Millionaire Masterminds to work out how I was going to do that in Australia. And it was actually Dan and Darcy and Marty that actually said to me, hey, don't do it in Australia, come and do it here so I'm partnering with some people here Kim Walsh Phillips and and hopefully we're gonna teach that framework here and find millions of people with service genes and give them another boost in life as well as we teach them what their superpower is and Yeah, and have another great business and have a lot of fun doing it which I think is is my calling. It could America more often, so keep your second home in Boise. Absolutely, my second time here and I love it.

Awesome, I appreciate you being here and that was an awesome episode, so thanks so much. Thank you, really appreciate it. Cheers.