Marketing Secrets with Russell Brunson - How to Increase Sales by 76% - with Jeremy Miner

Episode Date: February 23, 2024

In this episode, Jeremy Miner shares his game-changing sales techniques that have led to a remarkable 76% increase in sales for those who use them. Say goodbye to old-school sales tactics and hello to a fresh approach that focuses on genuine connections and understanding clients' needs. Hit me up on IG! @russellbrunson Text Me! 208-231-3797 Join my newsletter at marketingsecrets.com ClubHouseWithRussell.com Magnetic Marketing Secrets of Success Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Welcome to the Marketing Seekers podcast. My name is Russell Brunson, and I'm what you call a serial entrepreneur, but with a twist. You see, 50% of my time, I'm the CEO of ClickFunnels, helping over 100,000 brands to grow their companies with funnels. And the other 50% of my time, I'm actually in the trenches using ClickFunnels to grow the startups I believe in.

During this podcast, I'll take you behind the scenes and show you how we are bootstrapping ClickFunnels and my other businesses from startup to nine figures and beyond. Welcome to the show. What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. I'm going to be starting to include some interview series here in the podcast, which I'm excited for. In the past, there's basically, you've only heard me talk, I think twice, maybe three

times we've ever had somebody else besides me on the podcast. But recently we've been relaunching YouTube and going deep and I've been interviewing some fascinating people as part of it. And so number one takeaway I want you to have is like, you should go check out the new YouTube channel. It's performing really well. We're dropping new videos every single week. Um, some unique content, some really unique stuff we're doing. But, um, number two is I'm going to let you listen in on one of the conversations that was on this, this, um, this week's YouTube. So it was a conversation with me and Jeremy minor. Jeremy

is someone who's in my Atlas program. Uh, last year he was in category Kings and he has a big company teaching sales. And we actually recently fired him and his team to help us with our sales process and building out our back and call center, stuff like that. And just anyway, someone who I really enjoy and like and admire the way he does things. And this interview was great. We went deep into sales and psychology and a whole bunch of really fun things. And so I'm going to share this interview with you.

But do remember that if you want to see the visual of this one, which is really cool, head over to YouTube, type in Russell Brunson, go to the new channel, make sure you subscribe and then look for the new video that says the video titles, Jeremy Miner changes everything we know about sales. Check out the video there as well. And I hope you enjoy this and other future interviews we'll be showing here on the marketing secrets channel. Thanks so much, and I hope you enjoy this interview. My biggest year as a salesperson that I made commission was about a little bit over 2.9, something, 2.9 million straight commission. My background in college was behavioral science and social dynamics, how human beings make decisions.

If you want to be like top 1% salesperson, you have to view that selling is collaborative. It's like you working with the prospect to help them find and solve problems that maybe they didn't know they had. So if the prospect have problems and your solution solves those, then what's the missing link?

Why are they not buying from you? Well, the missing link is you. All selling is, is change. That's it. There is a direction you're taking somebody. Is there a script they're working off of? There's five tonalities you really have to master. You have to master the, you know, curious tone.

Like then there's the confused tone, like a playful tone, a challenging tone, a concerned tone. I might lean in and be like, what's really holding you back? So it's like how you shift your tone, like that really cause a prospect to actually engage with you. Do I believe in scripts? Yes. Do I believe in sounding scripted? What's up everybody? Welcome back to the channel. Today I'm excited to be interviewing one of my friends, Jeremy Miner. And I'm excited because I feel like in the last hundred years, there's a lot of people who have taught sales, but the most part it's just kind of been the same thing. And you popped up up started popping up in my news feed probably two years ago started seeing it and at first i was like oh no someone

teaching sales like what's going to be new from here and then as i started digging into your stuff and watching your training and going into it i was like oh this is actually unique and different and and really cool so much so that i know i'm under nda but like we're using everything he's doing inside of our for ourselves teams stuff i know When you announced that yesterday in the mastermind, I'm like, I thought we had an NDA. I'm not really sure. Okay. There we go. I'm bad at keeping secrets.

You should all know that. I know. Matt's like, do not say anything. We're under an NDA. I'm like, lips are sealed. There's only like three or four people in the whole company that know we're doing this. And then Frusticum's like, oh, yeah, by the way, Jeremy, 7 Levels is about to start training our salespeople. I'm like, oh, well, sure. Okay. Yeah, there we go. It was interesting, too, yeah, by the way, Jeremy, you know, 7 Levels training are about to start training our salespeople. I'm like, oh, well, sure.

Okay. Yeah, there we go. It was interesting, too, like just to have context. Like we built a sales team, man, probably 15 years ago, 60 full-time sales guys. Like we were one of the first in this industry who were doing like sell something online, call them on the phone. Okay. And nowadays, a lot of people are doing that, teaching it, talking about it. But again, like I said, what you guys are doing is a different level, which is why I wanted to talk to you here.

Yeah. But to begin with, I want to get context for you. So before you started doing sales training, you were doing sales. And I know a basic of your stats. Hopefully I would have been in sales before I did sales training. But when you get a sales, how good were you? Brag about yourself a bit. What would you like to know?

I saw stats somewhere. I don't know the exact number, but actual sales commissions in the year, which is ridiculous. My best year, like commission only, because I only like negotiated commission only jobs. So like after my first year, because I started like selling door to door, like for what you would now known as Vivint in Salt Lake City, Utah. I started with Pinnacle Security, then moved to Apex and went to Vivint. And then so I was used to like, like straight commission. So then I got into the B2B world after that. And then everybody would be like, we'll pay you like, you know, this huge salary and like tiny commission. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want any salary, but I want like this percentage of commission, you know? And they're always like, that's great. And I'm like,

yes, that's really great. See, I've covered in my sales process, but my biggest year as a sales person that I made commission was about a little bit over 2.9 something, 2.9 million straight commission. But there were several years in a row where I was making over like 2.4, 2.5 every year. W-2 or 10 and 9. It's crazy because I see the top tier salespeople. And rightfully so. They're like bragging, I did a million dollars in sales this year or whatever, which is great. On a seven-figure closer.

Yeah. I'm like, no, you're really not. Yeah. In my world, you is great. On a seven figure closer. I'm like, no, you're really not. Yeah. So it's fascinating. In my world you're not, but yeah. So how did you get, I mean, outside of negotiating commissions, but like, what were you doing differently do you think to? Well, I probably had an unfair advantage. So my background in college was behavioral science and like social dynamics. So it's like really like, I don't want to give all the nerd stuff, but it's really the study of the brain and how human beings make decisions. So I started learning just, you know, just how to work with human behavior, I would say. So I started taking like courses from like people like you would probably know, like

Robert Caldini and stuff like that. I started taking like advanced courses from just, you know, weird stuff, like psychologists and stuff that really didn't have anything to do with selling. I started taking like, I wanted to learn like advanced tonality and body language. So I would hire like acting trainers and stuff that would like train you how to use your facial expressions to like convey a different tone and so that really probably set me apart than just like reading a traditional selling book like you got to set goals you got to work harder you know like that stuff was really boring to me closes you can yeah 1,365 closing techniques. I'm just like, it's so transactional

and so like non-human that it triggers sales resistance. So I learned how to like, the one thing that we really train salespeople in any industry is how do you get the prospect to let their guard down? Like initially where they become open to what you're even talking about. So I started learning how to do that and selling became pretty easy at that point. Yeah. Yeah. And then you coined the, I don't know if you coined the phrase or the term, but NEPQ is your methodology, right? Yeah, that is our methodology. So NEPQ stands for neuroemotional persuasion questioning. So it's just my methodology that I developed over like about an 18 year sales career. I was in four different industries, two B2C, two B2B, made seven figures a year in commissions in all of

those industries, multiple seven figures in three of those industries per year. And that's why I always say like when people come back and they're like, oh, I'm a seven figure closer. I wanted to go back to it because there was like, I'm a seven figure closer. I closed 2 million in sales. I'm like, so you made 250 grand. That's great. But like to be a seven figure closer, you like, in my mind, like you have to be earning that much per year in commission. So, yeah. So NAPQ comes from like my behavioral science background. I'm like a nerd. Yeah. Yeah. So I think in my world is two, there's two types of people who are probably listening to this. One is like the marketing nerds like me, who are like, we sit, we market something and then we had a phone call in the back and then there are people

who are doing sales or want to do sales. And so maybe let's start from the sales standpoint. So give us some basic, uh, understand the principles of NAPQ, like some core things that someone could grab onto and like start applying right away. I mean, the biggest thing with us, with NAPQ is like, you know, just one core principle that we would teach is to listen to what the prospect means, not just what they say. And that's a big difference. I think most salespeople just conceptually don't understand. Like I might ask you what we would call a commitment question, like to get you to commit, to take the next step. I might say, you know, do you, do you feel like

this could be the answer for you? And you'll be like, yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean, that tells me that you're uncertain that you've got concerns. Whereas most salespeople be like okay and like he said yes let's go let's sign the agreement but that to me like i'm hearing your tone and that tells me you're uncertain you're concerned i might just i don't seem like you don't seem you seem a bit unsure like what's cool you know what's behind that you know i want them to open up so that's just one concept that we would teach like listening to what they mean not just what they say interesting we had um this was a sales position but one of our tops customer support people had a conversation with them and I was like how are you so good

like you answer everyone's ever loves you yeah and they said the same thing like they I don't respond what they asked me I respond what they're actually saying yeah like they're saying I don't want to teach that or how to coach that because it's like right it's you know human dynamics like how do you actually know what they're saying but yeah that's why he was so great because he was able to look at that. And how do you teach that? It's something that everybody, I think there's this myth out there in the world of selling. And I think you've been marketing that people are born with these skills.

You know, like I grew up on a freaking like cattle ranch in the middle of Missouri outside of a town with less than 800 people in it. Like, you know, I wasn't born out of my mother's womb with like advanced questioning skills. You know, I wasn't born out of my mother's womb, like advanced tonality. Like I wasn't born with advanced, you know, objection prevention or handling skills. Like I just acquired those skills. Like I learned those skills. So if, if I can learn them, right. Coming from a farm, that means anybody can acquire those skills. And in fact, we always hear like, salespeople be like, I'll do a keynote and like somebody will be like, oh, I've got the gift of the gab. You know, like I'm so, you know, I'm going to be so great. It says, I remember I'm training this pest control company over the East Coast here about six months ago. And I asked him

some question and one guy randomly said in the back, and he's like, I'm brand new. I haven't started, but I got the gift of the gab. My mom said I could sell anything to anybody. And I'm like, actually the gift of the gab is probably going to hurt you because you ever heard of that that saying set you know telling is not selling the gift of the gab actually we have to train salespeople like actually how to like stop talking so much like how to like slow down and verbal pace the questions that you're talking about because a lot of a lot of times like salespeople ask questions they're good but they ask them so fast that the prospect has no time to internalize what they're actually asking. And so that's why they get like a knee-jerk, like surface-level answer.

Let's say you go into a car dealership, right? And the salesman comes up, hey, how's it going? How can I help you? Real quick, you're like, oh, just looking. Yeah. Right? It's a knee-jerk reaction. But if I slow down my tone, let me try to get the right tone. So they walk in.

I might say, hey, welcome into the dealership. Are you guys out just maybe kind of looking around today or what's going on? I just slow down my tone. Are you out looking around? Yeah, we're looking around. Do you know what you're maybe looking for? Like I'm kind of confused, right? So I draw them in. Perfect.

So it's like how you shift your tone like how you slow down like verbal pace your questions out that really cause a prospect to actually engage with you super interesting so I I'm not a good one-on-one salesperson probably the worst in the world because you because you talk really fast well just you're obviously the best marketer but I'm great on one to many right like I and so it was interesting because then when I was trying to learn how to do that like and again people watch me and they're like you talk too fast russell um which i do but uh at the same time like um i was studying i was studying when i was trying to learn how to speak from stage like really good presenters it wasn't just people selling it was

like religious leaders and it was other people and that was a thing i noticed a lot was like their ability to use tonality like speed and like loud and quiet it's like yeah it's like I start fluctuating your tone yeah I would practice I go and then I stop yeah they come back quieter yeah see the audience so they lean in lean out it's like I say that from that standpoint yeah um it's kind of what Tony Robbins does yeah if you you know I mean you know Tony right so if you watch Tony like he'll like he'll get really fast and like really emotional and then he like slows down like verbal pause he's a master that you know obviously that's not something he was born with somebody taught him that like president obama i'm not into politics but like president obama was really good when he was speaking and that's why he engaged so many people is he would say something really

you know prophetic or whatever his beliefs were then he would kind of like verbal pause and like slow down his sentences and like let people internalize and think about it like you know like i know, like I love them, you know? So that's, that's that those type of things like make the difference in influencing somebody or like somebody buying something from you compared to just, you know, asking scripted questions where you sound like a robot. Yeah. So with your, when you do work, people talk about it. Cause obviously there is a direction you're taking somebody. Is there a script they're working off of or not? Or how does it work? So I believe in like sales structures, like, you know, you go back to like Hollywood, you see like the best actors and actresses and you watch her movies and everything they say is pretty much a hundred percent scripted.

But does it sound scripted? No, that's because they memorize their lines. So as a salesperson, you have to have a structure in your mind. You have to have questions you've got memorized. Now, that doesn't mean because let's say if I'm what we would ask. It's called an NAPQ situation question to find out what their situation is. And if they say something different, you know, that I'm not necessarily used to, I'm going to have to kind of change that next question I'm asking on the run. But I'm still in my framework. Does that makes sense. So that's why at NPQ, we have everything from connection questions to situation questions, to problem awareness, to solution awareness, to consequence. And so that's why we've been able to

go into any industry. We're in 161 industries now and be able to duplicate that process. And it doesn't matter if it's selling insurance to coaching and consulting or cars or cybersecurity, doesn't really matter. The industry, we're able to duplicate because we have all these salespeople on this framework where they know what they're looking for. And sometimes they have to relanguage the question based on the answer they're getting from the prospect. Does that make sense?

So do I believe in scripts? Yes. Do I believe in sounding scripted? No. Yeah. That's the difference. I've seen, I mean, you know, you get on the phone with salespeople and the worst ones, ones where you like throw a little detour in and they're like, and they don't

know what to do. And they're like, come back. And then they just go to the next question. Yeah. They're like, ask you the same question again. You're like, I just, you know, they sound like a telemarketer. Right. And it's, that's bad, but it's, it's also, it's kind of like, it's both are bad. It's like the ones that just kind of wing it and don't really know where they're going. Like that's not going to work and you can't sound scripted. So that's where your tone comes across. You know, we, we train like there's five tonalities that you really have to master. You have to master the, the, you know, curious tone. Like, uh, walk me through it. What do you guys do to, you know, generate new leads and clients now? Like if I'm selling leads to say a real

estate agent, whatever, you know, then there's the confused tone. Like, hi, I'm not understanding. How did, how did you mean when you said X, Y, Z, that's a confused tone, right? So why do I use a confused tone when I want them to clarify a pro because that would cause the prospect's brain to be like, and they don't even know what's going on, but it causes their brain to be like, oh, I didn't like really tell him. I didn't really explain that really well. I need to clarify it better. So that causes them to go deeper into that, like maybe problem they were talking about. So it gives them to relive their pain, right? So a confused tone would do that.

If I didn't use a confused tone there, you know, if I used a curious tone, like, oh, what happened when you said that? It doesn't do anything, right? It doesn't get them to internalize. Then there's like a, know a challenging tone so you're not going to use a challenging tone at the beginning of a conversation but i might be halfway through and i might be say so so what happens if you don't do anything about this and the situation gets worse so that's kind of a challenging tone where they kind of push back like no i need to do it now right but if i didn't use that tone i wouldn't get that emotional reaction. And then

there's like a, you know, a concern tone. I might lean in and be like, you know, what, what's really holding you back? You know, like tone that shows empathy. Right. Because then that communicates, see my tone is how the prospect interprets the intention behind every question I ask. Right. So they feel I'm concerned. They will typically trust me more and start to emotionally open up more. If they don't feel I'm concerned, they shut down. And then there's like a playful tone. Let's say if somebody comes to a call and they're late, I might say, well, what are we going to do with you, man? What's going on? Or I might, if they're like, hey, how are you doing today? I'm like, oh, just hanging out, being the boring guy. What about you? Playful tone. So all these type of

tones influence the way the prospect's brain will react. Do you try to hit all of them in every conversation or is it, is it based on the type of question or just kind of depends? Based on the type of question, right? So typically if I'm in, and it depends on the industry, right? Like, so if I'm a, let's say, am I asking connection questions to like take the focus off me and put it on them, I'm going to use more of a curious tone. Like, oh, you know, you saw the ad, like how long have you been following Jeremy for? Oh, you follow him on IG, you know, just that's a connection question, you know? So I'm going to use more of a curious tone there. A confused tone would probably be more used like if I'm probing, you know, like if you tell me a problem, hold on, how long has that been going on

for? See, that's a confused tone, right? So if I'm probing, I'm probably using more confused tone. And it's something I actually learned on the, I know it's crazy, but it's something I learned on the doorstep. So when I started selling door to door, there just wasn't much training, right? They give you a script. Here's two books by some gurus who haven't sold anything for 40 years. They're like 90 years old. And I'll be 90 one day too. So I'm making fun of myself. But they're like, Hey, just go out there. It's going to be easy. And so I learned when I knock on the door and be like, Hey, you know, it's, it's Jeremy. I'm with XYZ company.

And the reason why we're out here and they'd be like, slam, not interested, you know, just really quick because I would just go into like talking. And that's what every other salesperson that was knocking on the, we're selling anything was saying every day. So I'm like, okay, if what, what am I supposed to do? And this is when I first started learning what we would call pattern interrupts. I didn't call it that back then, but I'm like, how do I break this pattern where it triggers curiosity? Because I was learning about how do you trigger curiosity in the human mind?

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Go check it out at WorkingGenius.com and enter the promo code SECRETS for 20% discount. Take this test for yourself and for your team. And I promise you it will change the working dynamics amongst everybody and help your company to grow. So I knock on the door and I started like changing everything I wore. So I started wearing like khaki shorts and everybody wears them now. I don't know if they got it from me, but khaki shorts, regular like t-shirt. I would wear like the old man, new balance shoes, you know, the white old man shoes, the comfortable ones. I'd wear that. I put a tape measure on the side because you got to tape,

you know, measure where the alarm's going to go. And then I would wear like these weird, like just regular glasses. I'd wear like a $10 like Walmart watch. And then I would have like this, like those metal clipboards type of thing. Like you're like a $10 Walmart watch. And then I'd have like this, like those metal clipboards type of thing. Like you're taking a survey, right? I wanted them to view me as like the survey guy or the meter reader. And then I bought like this construction. So I'd buy like a, I bought like a lime green one or like an orange one. I knock on the door. And so I'd be like, like looking around the roof roof and everything, not to, and they come out and they're like, how, how can I help you? I'm like, yeah, are you guys the, um, are you the, the, the property owners here? And they're like,

yeah, we're the property owners. What's going on? Like instantly patterned rough triggers curiosity. And so I learned just how to do that. And I, instead of knocking a hundred doors to get a sale, I literally could knock on five and I would sell three out of five. And everybody's like, you know, this guy doesn't work hardly at all. And he makes five times more money than all of us. Like what the hell's going on? So that's kind of how I started learning how to like trigger curiosity from the doors. That reminds me of, um, a Dan Kennedy or no Gary Halbert story. Gary Halbert was doing direct mail campaigns. And like, he was doing, he'd go to the seminars, like, Hey, this is how you do direct mail. You do this. And so he'd be like, do the same thing. And he was doing, he'd go to the seminars, like, this is how you do direct mail. You do this.

And so he'd do the same thing. And one day, someone asked him a question, like, if your family's life depended on somebody actually getting the mail opening, what would you do different? He's like, well, I wouldn't have body copy on the envelope. I'd make the stamp crooked. I'd use blue ink.

And so he went to exercise, and he's like, what if I did a campaign that way? And so he wrote this one-page sales letter. It's famous. It's called the Coat of Arms sales letter if you want to see it. Had a whole team of people who'd handwrite in blue ink, put a crooked letter on it, mailed it. I think that letter got mailed like 100 million times. Like the most mailed direct sales letter of all time.

Made him a multi-billion, you know, whatever. But it's because of that thought of just like, everyone's doing this. How do I do the opposite and see what happens? It's always the opposite because like when you, you know, like I'll do a reel on like cold calling. You know, there's this like, there's this one industry where we've like really dominate. I mean, it's the, you know, the second largest industry to train now is real estate. So that's like commercial real estate agents, you know, um, residential real estate, and then, uh, investors that call distressed properties. And so there's this huge company,

you, you probably know them, but anyways, I can't say who they are. There's this huge company that we train and they were like, you know, we suck at cold calling. Like we have these lists. And so I wrote this cold clients group. We're actually getting a 71%. So when a prospect answers cold, straight cold call 71% now moved from them answering to booking a next step appointment, which is unheard of in cold calling. And so what I did is I'm like, okay, I've got to learn how, I've got to do a pattern interrupt. So I can't sound like all the other cold callers calling these properties like, hey, I'm with XYZ, you know, real estate and we like your house. And would you be willing to accept a, you know, a cash offer 30 days, you know, and they're like, yes or no.

And then that's it. And like 99.9% say no, right? Because they're just salesperson selling me something. So like, I'm like, okay, so here's what I want you to do. I want you to go print off the property tax records of these homes you're calling. They're like, what? I'm like, no, just do it. Cause you gotta be authentic. I want to literally print off the property. You can get property tax records of all these homes you're calling. And so when you're calling them, I want you to hold them in your hand and I want you to like make noises with them. So like when you call, so it's So when you call, it's bread.

It's like a total pattern. Because when you call, you want me to do it? Yeah. I have to do it, okay? I've got to get the right tone. Yeah, you've got to, yeah. I need actually some papers. It'd actually be better.

We have paper back here? Anybody got any papers? We got any papers? Oh, yeah, perfect. Give me some papers here. Let's see if I get it. So when they call, let's see if I can remember this. They're like, you know, this, perfect. Give me some papers here. Let's see if I get it. So when they call, let's see if I can remember this. They're like, you know, this is Jenny.

Yeah, Jenny, it's Jeremy Minor with XYZ Company. I'm holding a copy of your property tax records of your home there in 55 Willow in Savannah. I was wondering if you could help me out for a moment. They're always like, yeah, sure. Because nobody's going to always like, yeah, sure. Because nobody's going to be like, not interested when you say I'm holding a copy of your property tax records of your home on 75 Willow Street and see, I'm doing this. They're hearing that. They're like, yeah, what's going on? I'm like, well, and I'm not even sure if it would make sense for us to talk. So that's like a push them away type of thing. But I'm not even sure it would

make sense for us to talk. I represent a group of buyers that are actually looking to acquire. There's like five or maybe six different properties there by your Willow Wayne property. And they were having me go through your property tax records on that home. And they asked me to call you to see if you would be opposed to having a conversation about possibly even selling it. Should we be talking about that? 71%. Yeah, sure. What's going on? And it just triggers curiosity.

So a couple of things that I just said there. When you're doing this, so I remember I did a reel on this one time. People were like, that would never work. I can't believe it. But then people in the company that we were training, they're like, dude, we're getting like 71% response rate. Like you guys just keep doing what you guys are doing. Like it's not going to work, but it's just an example of a pattern interrupt because nobody's going to hang up the phone because you're holding a pop copy of their property tax record. So it triggers curiosity. How'd you get my property tax director? Who are you guys again? What's going on? And

that's all I have to do is I just have to trigger that pattern interrupt to get them to want to engage back and forth and then just build the gap so this is an example so cool interrupt so the last set of questions i'm going to ask you now because obviously from a sales standpoint this is the same like all these are such cool things but after you were a salesperson you went and you built your company now where you're doing sales training stuff like that so a lot of the people who follow me are marketers or funnel builders or doing stuff like that. And so, yeah. But I remember for me, I was an internet nerd. And so before we ever had people on the phones, I was like, you sell things through email.

And that was how we did things. I remember the very first time I actually had a friend working with me. He worked at a call center. And he was kind of shocked the other way. He was like, I can't believe people are buying things through email. We had to do it on the phone. Yeah, yeah. And this is, man almost probably 18 years ago uh

that's awesome he's collapsing yeah and i was like how do we save this and he was like let's figure out a way so um i sent an email i sold i remember it's a free dvd people buy the dvd and then he called him on the phone he's like hey you bought the dvd and then he sells something and we did that in the very first month we made a $5,500 offer. And first, um, or seeing the first week he sold it, he sold 11 of them. And I remember I was like, we made more money here. And he was like, anyway, so it's like this yin yang of like the funnels online marketing and the, and the phone sales. I just love you to talk about like for people who are primarily just doing the internet stuff, like adding this piece on the back

end, like how can you transform a business? Yeah. I think it, I think you have to have the, the, the, I think you have to have the right, you have to know what to do. So there's so much, like, there's so much out there. Like you said, like everything's been the same for a hundred years. Like to me, communication goes all the way back to like the dawn of mankind. You know, like I'm, I'm like very philosophical, but like, if you look at like, you know, you've studied the Bible, like the war of heaven, right? Everybody's like, Oh, there's a war of heaven. But like, do you really think about what that means? Like there, was it a war of like tanks and like guns and like swords and like fistfights? No, it was a war of words. It was a war of

influence. It was a war of persuasion. So to me, like selling, like when you understand what selling means, it's not like adversarial, like it's not you against the prospect trying to win them over so you can make money. Like that's what average salespeople do. Like it's not you against the prospect trying to win them over so you can make money. Like that's what average salespeople do. Like if you want to be like top 1% salesperson, or if you want to, you know, a company that scales, you have to view that selling is collaborative. It's like you working with the prospect to help them find and solve problems that maybe they didn't know they had. Like you heard me in there talking about like, well, how are you seeding a problem in their mind? Like, you know, cause a lot of people just don't know what they don't know.

So I think a lot of marketers out there, I think you're so great at seeding problems. I think if you just took what you're doing in marketing and actually applied it to sales, because you're good. All these marketers are so great at seeding problems in their copy that the prospect starts to internalize and maybe didn't think they know they had. But then when their salespeople get on there, it's like they ask two questions. You know, what's your biggest problem? What are you looking for in a solution? And then the prospect tells them a problem.

They're like, oh, well, let me tell you, we solved that. And they go right into their pitch, right? It's like exactly opposite of what you're doing in your marketing. So like once you learn how to, you know, ask the right questions at the right time, the right tone, and you help the prospect find problems in their mind that they didn't know they had, they start to view you more as like the expert, right? Like the authority, that's how they view you in marketing, right? So if you transfer that into sales, which that's what we do, human behavior, it's actually really easy to sell because what I always say here is like, when we train salespeople or companies, we're like,

who has the problem? You or the prospect? And they're like, well, the prospect has the problem. Yeah, the prospect has the problems. Who has a solution to solve those problems? You do. So if the prospect have problems and your solution solves those, then what's the missing link? Why are they not buying from you? Well, the missing link is you. It's what you're saying. It's what you're not asking. It's how you don't understand how to use your tone because the prospect has the problems. Your solution solves those. It should be a pretty good match, right? And so what we train salespeople is like, how do you get the, since the prospect has the problems, how do you get them to do all the work? See, I don't have the problem, right? Prospect has the problem. So how do I get the prospect

to do all the work? How do I get the prospect to sell themselves? How do I get the prospect to overcome their own concerns? And how do I get the prospect to pull me in? Whereas traditional sales training would be like, you got to do the work, you got to do the convincing, you got to do the persuading, you got to overcome their own objections, like you got to push and pressure. And that's only going to get you to like a certain level. And I think that's where a lot of marketers just, you know, they don't know what they don't know because they're so great at marketing that what they're doing in marketing, if they just learned how to put that into their sales team, they would actually blow up times 10. And that's, that's what we do. Yeah. Yeah. So cool. Bunch of boring stuff, you know? Yeah. Tons of money. Well, I appreciate

you coming out and, um, and sharing the stuff. Like I said, I talk about marketing by people whenever we talk about sales and like I said, I'm super impressed with just how unique your angle and direction is on it. So I think like, like I said, it's like so many marketers, like I see your stuff and everybody's stuff is so good at seeding doubt in the prospect's mind through just things they say and they ask and framing and looping. And I'm like, they just don't understand how to do it on the sales side. And they're just so used to like, you know, our salespeople are going to buy this book from the sales trainer that hasn't sold anything. Read this book and figure it out. It's like, you know, like boiler room selling type of techniques. And it's such a disconnect from the prospect going from their company, which seeds that and like sets them up. And then they

get on a sales call and it's like, you know, they're trying to like, you know, push and pressure them. Now that doesn't mean you get to the end of a call or a zoom appointment or in person. You're like, well, let me know if you're interested, you know, email me back. Like that's not going to do anything as well. You have to like, we always say you have to build a gap, right? It's like you have to help the prospect understand what their real situation is because as you know, when you do copy, most prospects don't really understand what the real situation is, do they? Right? It's your job as a marketer or salespeople to help them understand. As a salesperson, you can't tell them what their real situation is. You can't tell them their problems because you're biased. That's just going to go in one ear out the other. Your

questions have to get them to start to internalize and tell themselves what their problems are. And what that does is it starts to build a gap. So we call this like their current state or a current situation, building a gap to what we would call their objective state. Like what does their future look like once the newfound problems are solved? How do you build a gap? Like I said, you can't tell them what the problems are. Your questioning, your tone allows them to internalize and to tell themselves their problems. And what that does, like you guys do in marketing, is it builds massive urgency for them to want to change. You know, what's the biggest emotional driver in a human being that causes them to want to change?

Pain or the fear of future pain. So if you can help the prospect relive their pain, or at least have the fear of future pain, like what are the consequences if they don't do anything, then they don't feel like they need to change. And if they don't feel like they need to change, there's no urgency for them to do something. So, you know, that's the biggest, that's the biggest thing. And I always say selling is about change. There's nothing else, but how do you get a human being to change? Because human beings don't like change because you have to help them overcome that fear of change to actually get what they want. Yeah. So good. Crazy stuff. Yeah. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats, but iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice. Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no,

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it's definitely not bad. Don't overthink how you hydrate. Life's full of choices. Smart Water is a simple one. So you started following me two years ago, huh? I mean, we weren't even that big. Well, we were decent size two years ago. Yeah, for the first time you came to your circle, I was like, hey.

Oh, really? I remember because you kept coming through NEPQ. I kept seeing that over and over and over again. And at first I was like, oh, he's rapping something different. But then I kept seeing it so consistently. And when people are consistent, I'm always like, they're doing something or they're not going to be this consistent. I started looking deeper. And I was like, oh, this is actually different.

This is really cool. Yeah. Like I said, behavioral science, social dynamics, there's not much out there on that. So we have a little bit of an advantage, you know. But there you go. Well, it's interesting. As I've been, you know, we started down this journey with you guys, start working with you, just finding other people I knew,

right. Oh yeah. They're, they're training our whole team and they're doing this. Like it was really fascinating. Oh, they're everywhere. Yeah.

How many people's hands you're in applying the stuff and just making the, the sales world better from, from the inside out, which is amazing. I mean, it's really fun for me. Like it's, um, I really like it.

Like, you know, we had an offer to like, you know, for a, a company to, to buy us. And had an offer to, like, you know, for a company to buy us. And we're like, Chad, but it was so much fun. I mean, it's just money.

Like, I should really better have fun, you know. I think for me, like, when I started teaching funnels to people, my favorite part was seeing all these other industries apply. Like, that I'd never been in, but I was like, I knew they still work. Yeah. Probably similar for you. It's like, I can't believe this works here and here. Yeah, because I was only in four industries. I was in two B2B. I mean, so I was only in four industries. I was in two B2B.

I mean, so I was in like financial debt, relief services, B2B. I was in network marketing, made a lot of money there, B2C, you know,

door to door, B2C. And then I sold like financial events that B2B and B2C. So I was only in four industries. So when I started seventh level, like late 2018, which was just being my assistant,

I actually won that two combo parts. You want me to tell you a funny thing. So that year that I started as me and my assistant for my job, and I did three webinars, made like 1.3 million in sales, and I spent 1.8. So I'm like, I lost 500 grand my first year. I'm like, oh, it's not good to keep losing 500,000 every year. I'm like, how many more years can I keep losing half a million a year and then have to un-retire and go back to work? So I'm like, then know, then I started like figuring out like, oh, I need a team and I need to learn how to do some stuff, you know, because you can have, like you said, you can have the best product or service in the world, but if you don't have a

team around you to market it and to, you know, to like a great CEO, to run the business and those type of things are really, you're going to struggle, you know? So it takes a while to, it takes a while to grow. It's frustrating, right? Because you like, you have a because you like you have a successful career like oh i'm just gonna go in here and like in a month we'll we'll be up here and it's like oh well you have to build like an infrastructure and like all this stuff you know that i didn't know about you know thanks for being here appreciate you oh thanks for having me on about apq and you and everywhere's the best place for them to go uh let's have them go we'll give them one of our free facebook groups uh let's have them go to sales revolution dot pro we'll get about a hundred thousand people in there sales people all different Let's have them go. We'll give them one of our free Facebook groups. Let's have them go to salesrevolution.pro.

We'll get about 100,000 people in there, salespeople, all different industries. And you can go there. You know, we'll give them little nibbles. And we go live in there two or three times a week, two or three times a week, different trainings and interviews with clients from all industries. It's kind of fun. And if they want to purchase one of our books, they can go to barnesandnoble.com. We have a Barnes & Noble bestseller and Wall Street

Journal bestseller, Amazon bestseller. Don't buy it from Amazon. We have a deal with Barnes & Noble. I will get upset. And type in the new model of selling Jeremy Miner or Jerry Acuff, new model of selling barnesandnoble.com. It's a good book. Yeah. Bezos is the guy with the money. Don't go to Amazon. I know. Don't go to Amazon. Please. I think it's like 50 cents more from Barnes & Noble. So we have a deal with them. The more books they sell online, the more shelves in their bookstores over the United States they put. So no Amazon. I like Amazon. I'm sure we have book sales there, but there you go. That's awesome. Thanks for having me on, man. Appreciate you. And hope you guys enjoyed this interview. I've been enjoying like just doing the, the just walk around of your office and seeing like all the, the books you collect and all that stuff. Like I'm an avid historian. I'm like a geek. I like watching like the history channel and like documentaries all night. Saturday

night, I'm like, Oh man, this is great documentary. I'm like the German collapse of the, the world war two, like in Bulgaria, you know, like people are like, why do you watch that weird stuff? I'm like, I don't know. I just really like his stuff. So cool. So I love seeing all your stuff, you know, especially with the LDS church and stuff. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Good stuff. Very cool.