Marketing Secrets with Russell Brunson - Jay Abraham Q&A Interview - Part 1 of 4

Episode Date: May 23, 2022

On today's episode, you get to hear the first part of a recent interview Russell did with Jay Abraham. Hit me up on IG! @russellbrunson Text Me! 208-231-3797 Join my newsletter at marketingsecrets.com ClubHouseWithRussell.com Magnetic Marketing Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, what's up everybody? This is Russell, and I want to welcome you to some special episodes of the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Some of you guys know that the two, who are the big two marketing legends in our space? If anyone, you know, who knows, if you just sit down, like, who would you see if you could see, like, the ultimate fighting, like a smackdown of the greatest marketers of all time, who would they be? And I think arguably you'd have to say that the two greatest are Dan Kennedy and Jay Brand. I love those guys. I've learned so much from them. I study them. I like, they're amazing. And while obviously over the last year, I've had a chance to really get to know Dan Kennedy a lot more. Jay, I don't know quite as well. And recently Jay actually had me on a coaching call with some of his clients. And it was really cool because, you know, obviously I've

learned from Jay a ton, but this time he went and he interviewed me and asked me questions. And the interview was about 90 minutes long. And I asked him afterwards, like, this is really good. I'm like, can we use this? Can I, can I share it with my people? And luckily for me and for you, he said yes. And so this is going to be broke up into four different episodes. And you're going to have a chance to hear Jay Ram ask me questions and I get to respond. It was so much fun. It's such a huge honor and hopefully you guys get a lot of value from it. You'll see it's interesting when Jay does the interview, he'll ask me three or four questions and tell me to answer whichever one I want to. And so it was kind of interesting interview that way.

But from that came some really cool things. So anyway, over the next four episodes, we're going to break up this interview. And this first one, some of the questions that I have a chance to answer from Jay are things like, where do I get my entrepreneurial drive? And I talked about my very first infomercial I ever saw. I talked about bridging old school marketing into digital marketing. We talked about potato guns and Google slaps and upsells and a whole bunch of other really cool things. We talked about building leadership teams and A players versus B players. Talked about disc tests and personality profiles, how to hire the right people. And this is just the first 22 minutes. So anyway, it was a really fun interview.

I hope you enjoy the first of four episodes here on the Marketing Secrets Podcast with Jay Abraham interviewing me about business and life and a whole bunch of other stuff in between. So the big question is this, how are entrepreneurs like us who didn't cheat and take on venture capital, we're spending money from our own pockets. How do we market in a way that lets us get our products and our services and the things that we believe in out to the world and yet still remain profitable? That is the question and this podcast will give you the answer.

My name is Russell Brunson and welcome to Marketing Secrets. This is a privilege for me and I'm going to, with your permission, Russell and Hero, I'm going to take it down a number of paths because I think Russell's career and his ability and his knowledge and expertise lends itself to not just sharing expert ideas, but sharing a mindset and showing you how to take your business from wherever it is to a higher level, think bigger, scale and do things. So you need to know that Russell, I think, and Russell, I'm going to explain this, but everybody, I'm ADD, so I'm going to explain it. And also, I have a parenthetical comment to Russell, is that I believe entrepreneurship is seen by a lot of people when you're young, when you're 15, 16. I used to buy and sell bicycles.

I did all kinds of things. And Russell, you were an entrepreneur from what, 16? Yeah, maybe a little bit before that, actually. Yeah, started really young. So what I found interesting about your career was that you applied and studied almost every business opportunity offer out there on TV, in the magazines, direct mail, to see what they were doing and how they did it. You want to explain real quickly, even going back, what the drive on that was?

Yeah, it actually started. So I was probably 14 or 15 years old. And my dad was watching late night TV one night. And usually he made me go to bed. But that night he didn't. And I remember when the news got over and then some of the TV shows, then an infomercial came on. And I'd never seen that before. And it was a guy, Don LaPree, selling how to make money with little tiny classified ads. And as a 14-year-old, my eyes got this big. And I was like, I can't believe this is possible. And I remember it was $40 to call on the phone and buy the kit.

And so I begged my dad for money. And he told me no. I had to go earn it. So I mowed lawns for the next four weeks, $10 a week, mowing lawns, saving up my $40. I remember I wrote down the phone number and then after I had my $40, I called the number that night and I put it in and I ordered the how to make money kit and it came to me. And that was the first thing I'd ever bought in my entire life. It was the first thing I'd ever, you know, any kind of marketing I'd ever seen. And I remember getting the kit in the mail and reading it and getting so excited. Um, but I was a 14 year old kid. I had no money to actually buy ads or even place

classified ads or anything. And so, uh, but I was kind of hooked. And so I started learning and started finding, um, here in the States, there's a magazine called the small business opportunity magazine. And I got that magazine. and I called every single 1-800 number and ordered their info kits. And I started getting direct mail every single day. As a 14, 15-year-old kid, I was getting stacks of direct mail. I would read the sales letters,

and I got obsessed with it. And so that was kind of how I first started learning this. I saw people doing it to me, and it got me so excited. And then fast forward later in my life is when I started thinking, oh, I could do this with my products and my services and that kind of shift and transition to that. And to put it in perspective, everybody listening and watching. So Russell was on the

very precipice in the beginning of when digital marketing really exploded. He was on the cutting edge. And I'm going to pre assume that a lot of the direct response methods that he learned in the mail order methods, which are direct response, he was able to adapt and adopt to all the things he started doing online. Is that a reasonable assumption? Yes. In fact, I remember making that bridge that connection. I was like, I mean, email is just like direct mail fact, I remember making that, like bridging that connection. I was like, I make email is just like direct mail. And I remember thinking website or back then blogs, blogs were just like the newspaper and podcasts were like radio. And I was like making these connections and I was like, Oh, I can do the same things here, but I don't have to put a stamp on an email. So this is going to be cheaper. I could actually do it while I was in college,

but yeah, completely just kind of modeled what I saw over here and used it over on the online platforms. Now, I'm going to ask another, thank you. And I'm ADD, so if I don't acknowledge I heard it, so bear with me because I've never had the privilege of interviewing you. And I'm doing it as an advocate, but I'm also a fan. So one of the things I think is very important, and I used to do it at my expensive seminars, I would actually walk people through the progression, the hierarchy of experiences that I encountered to get to wherever I was at that period of time. So they would understand the lessons I learned and how they would apply to anyone, either directly or through adaptation. And if you'll let me, can we go through some of the, like, let's consider you a supersonic jet taking off to 40 or 50,000 feet altitude,

but you're going through these different phases of progression. You mind going through some of them with us? Yeah, from the very beginning. Whatever you think would help. We have entrepreneurs of all kinds, but many of them use digital marketing, social media marketing. You understand a lot of things. I'm going to bring you very quickly to sharing some techniques because your knowledge is probably well ahead of theirs and it can be a great gift, but also I think appreciating what, what brings somebody to where they are makes people, um, embrace what they share with a lot more, um, a lot more, uh, authenticity and a lot more belief. That's just my belief. Yeah, for sure. So, um, the first time, cause I'd learned all, I'd seen those things when I was a kid. And the first time I ever like decide I'm going to make my own product, I'm going to sell something. Um, it was

actually, uh, I don't know if you guys have these where you're from, but I I'm from Boise, Idaho, which is like potato capital of America. And so one thing we do for fun is make potato guns. And I remember at the time I was in college, I was wrestling my university. In fact, I just got back from wrestling tournament where I was wrestling this weekend i still wrestle i got a cut open eye because of it um but i was wrestling for my university and um i just married my wife and so we you know i was trying to figure out how to help support her and pay some bills and that's when i had this idea i was like we're making potato guns i wonder if if anybody else would want to buy information on how to make a potato gun.

That was the big idea I first had. And so I started doing some research, and I found out at the time there were 18,000 people a month searching for information on potato guns. And so that was going to be my first idea. I remember my friend and I went, and we got a video camera and recorded ourselves going and buying the PVC sprinkler pipes and cutting them and gluing them together. And then, you know, making an actual gun. And if you've ever seen them for, they're like seven or eight feet tall and you jam a potato on one end of them. And then you spray hairspray in the back and you kind of put a cap on the end of you click a button and it makes a spark, which shoots the potato out like a hundred yards, a lot of fun. So we went, made one and we filmed ourselves making it. And then we put that onto a DVD, and that became my very first product I ever created.

And so back then, 20 years ago, when I did this, the only really advertising platform that was on the Internet was Google. And so I went to Google, and I started buying basic Google ads. And I was spending about $5 or $10 a day on Google ads, and from that, I'd sell one or two DVDs. So I'd spend $10 and maybe make $30 or $40. And so as a college kid, that was, that was great. You know, I'd make $20 a day net profit every single day. And it was just, it was, it was really, really cool. And then, um, for those who have been following digital marketing for the last 20 years, the very first, uh, they call it the Google slap, the first Google slap came. And what they did is they changed their algorithm and they increased the pricing. And overnight I went from spending $10 a day to

make $40 a day to, I started spending 50 or $60 a day to make $40 a day. And within a week of that, I was like, this is not working. I'm losing money. I got to figure something out. And so I turned all the ads off and I thought that I had, you know, I thought, okay, digital marketing doesn't work. It's too expensive. And then I had a friend who had a similar thought that I had, you know, I thought, okay, digital marketing doesn't work. It's too expensive. And then I had a friend who had a similar business to mine and he told me, he said, the problem right now is that you're just selling one product. He's like, you gotta think more like McDonald's. McDonald's has upsells.

He said, you know, when you go through the drive-thru and you order a big Mac, they always say, do you want fries and Coke? He said, you need to add an upsell and then you can make more revenue from every person who buys your DVD. And I was like, well, I'm selling a potato gun DVD. Like, like what kind of, what can my upsell and then you can make more revenue from every person who buys your dvd and i was like well i'm selling a potato gun dvd like like what kind of what could my upsell be and he said well what do people need immediately after they buy your dvd right you you sell them something you sell all the problems so i sold them a kit on how to make a how to make a potato gun next problem they had is they had to go drive them by the pipes and the glue and all the things they would need so he said well they make a kit like create a kit and sell the kit for an upsell. And so I actually found a partner who was making

potato guns and we partnered together. And, um, for $200, he would ship them out a potato gun kit. And so then we came back and I turned my ads back on and it still costs me $50 to sell a $30 DVD. So I was losing money, but then like one out of three people would buy that upsell. And all of a sudden I was, I was in profit. And that was the very first, you know, we didn't, we didn't even know what to call it back then. Nowadays we call it a funnel, but it was the very first time I'd ever, I'd ever created something like that. And I remember I was just like, I think we figured something out. This is a big deal. And obviously the potato gun market is really, really small, but I was like, could we do this in other markets? And so I found people who had like, uh, I had a friend who had a speed reading course and said,

okay, well you're selling speed reading courses, create an upsell and a downsell. And we did that, his business and it blew up. And we tried it with a dentist. We got a thing and we created it and rain upsells downstairs and their, their business blew up. And we started applying these principles to tons of different businesses and all of them had little, little tweaks and changes we needed to make, to make it work in their, their industries. But that's kind of how this, this concept, this principle of funnels was born, at least for me. And, um, the next decade of my life, I was just doing that for my own businesses, for other people's businesses. I was doing some consulting where I would go into a business and I would just go and apply these,

these principles, these, these funnels, and we'd watch these businesses explode. And then, um, about eight or nine years ago is when we had the idea to build software. And I think some of you guys are familiar with our company, ClickFunnels, which is software that makes this funnel process simple. But that's kind of how it happened. It was us trying to figure out how do we solve our own problem. Then we solved it. And then eventually we started creating software to really simplify it for other entrepreneurs as well. You're being very, very humble, but you also are known for your mastery of all kinds of digital marketing and techniques. And you also have been very masterful at growing or scaling. Let's take both of those topics and break them into discussion. I want to ask a simple

question that I think will help everybody because very few people know mentally, they don't have the mental construct, they don't have the strategy, they don't even have the self-belief to go from little to bigger to bigger to expand. Can you talk a little bit about the mindset? Yes. It's funny because I've had friends who told me, oh, I wish that I could just have my own ClickFunnels company. And to put it in perspective, and I don't know the size of them as businesses here, but we have 400 plus employees, almost $200 million a company. And so it's big, it's heavy. And I always laugh. I said, if somebody would have given me this, it would have crushed me initially. And I think that one of the, I mean, I believe business is one of the best personal development environments in the world because you have to learn so many skillsets. You have to learn,

you know, how to create a product, how to write copy, which is persuasion, right? You have to learn how to manage a team, how to, how to, how to hire a team, how to find people, how to scale, how to, like, there's so many things you have to learn along the journey. And I think that what's interesting though, is that luckily we don't just, you know, someone doesn't have a $200 million business in day one. You have this chance where you try, you start growing and you know, it collapses around you, but then you, you increase your capacity and you get a little better than you try again and you try again. And actually one interesting thing, I don't know if you ever knew this story. We were, ClickFunnels was about a year old and actually got a text message from you and you invited me to go speak at an event out in London.

In London. Yeah. And so what's crazy is we'd been around, ClickFunnels has been around for about a year. At that time we had outgrown our infrastructure and the software kept having these glitches and things were happening. And, um, I jumped in a plane and with my family, we were, you know, disconnected for however long the flight is. And when I landed and I connected my phone back up, there were thousands of text messages from all of our customers and people and click-throughs had been down for four or five hours. And, you know, I, I know what to do. I was so scared. I'm like, what do we do? Like, you know, I've never, this is my first time being a CEO. I'd never had this kind of opportunity, let alone all these other people where their businesses relied on mine. If my business was down, their businesses were down.

And it was interesting because people in that situation aren't very nice and they were angry at me and they, you know, it was, it was hard. And I think by default, what I wanted to do, um, is I wanted to just ignore it or blame somebody else or do something. And, and I sat in my hotel room with my family. I was like, Hey kids, you got to sit over here for a few minutes. I got to figure this out.

And we're sitting there. I was like, I have to, I can't hide this. I need to like come out and it's not okay that we're down. Like I'm upset. They're, they're upset.

Rightfully so. And so I remember I did a Facebook live, um, from the hotel room in London, going to our entire audience, all of our customers, all of everybody. And I said, this is what happened. And it was not okay. It's not acceptable. Like my business is down. Your business is down. from the hotel room in London, going to our entire audience, all of our customers, all of everybody.

And I said, this is what happened. And it was not okay. It's not acceptable. Like my business is down, your business is down when you trusted us. And like, I took ownership, even though I was so scared to do that. I took ownership of it. I told what was happening. I kept updating them. And over the next couple of hours, we finally got the platform back live. And from there, we're able to transition and get things stable. And, you know, it's been great it was it was a scary moment it was my first time ever like having this pressure of everything and it's like how do i how do i do this and i want to run and hide it's like no i have to i have to step into it i have to be vulnerable i have to share what's actually happening it was crazy to me still to this day i was expecting that we'd have you know thousands of customers cancel or leave during this this window And we didn't see any decrease in cancellations.

In fact, after I came forward and I was vulnerable, I told people what was wrong and I apologized. People rallied behind us. They were like part of our team and it just transitioned to everything. And so that was like the first time as a leader I had a chance to feel that. It was like, okay, this is moving forward. This is what we need to be. We need to be vulnerable as a company. We need show we have problems we don't hide them we talk about them we put them out there and it transformed the entire culture of our of our customers our

company and and everything and so those things happen all the time as you know as you're as you're but it's great it's a great story i didn't know it did you end up at least having a good experience after that yes my kids loved london Thank you for setting that up with a great time. No, I told you. It was holiday time. I thought it would be really beautiful there. It was, yeah. It was Christmas time.

It was right before Christmas. That's fun. What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. I've got something really cool for you today from my friend Taylor Wells. Taylor spoke at our last Funnel Hacking Live because I wanted him to share a really cool concept about what he calls the revolving pricing

method. And today he decided to sponsor the podcast to give you guys more access to this super cool strategy that you are going to love. It's something we've been implementing into our high-end coaching program as well, and it is amazing. But to kind of give you some context about this offer he's making for you guys, as you may or may not know, a few years ago, JPMorgan Chase did a study, and guess what they found? They found that the average small business only has about 28 days of operating expenses in reserve. That's right, less than a month of cash on hands. Now, if you're like me, the idea of your business being one bad month away from disaster is enough to make your stomach drop. Am I right? Especially with how the economy's been lately. It's not the time to be

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It's at 70% off. And I promise you guys as a customer of this, you are going to love it. So if you're serious about growing your business with real stability, this is the model you need to add into your funnels. So go over to wealthyconsultant.com slash secrets, grab your 70% off deal, and let's start turning your clients into long-term revenue. Again, that's wealthyconsultant.com slash secrets. Do not miss out. Hey, this is Russell Brunson. And I want to jump in really quick to share with you a new

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Let me ask you this. And I'm going to get to your specific business acumen, but you introduced something that, I mean, my observation, because I've been involved in the Japanese entrepreneurial market for 20 years, and I believe that the idea of leadership is something that could be really profound if you'd share whatever you've learned about leading as you scale and about hiring great people and about enabling them to be great colleagues, collaborators, maybe non-equity or equity partners, but just some random thoughts that you think have had a profound difference and an impact on your success and will continue to have that impact.

Just to share, not just management, but again, leadership, cultural beliefs, things like that, that I think would really be a godsend and be very helpful for a lot of these people. Yeah, I can think of two or three that might be helpful. One of them that when we first started hiring people, you know, and that's not something that's natural to me. And I was very, very scared. And so I think by default, what, well, at least for me, I think a lot of people, a lot of entrepreneurs, I know the first thing is like, they're trying to get a deal on people like, well, how can I lower my labor costs? And, and we started that way for the first probably week or two. And it was just, it got really,

really hard. Like we couldn't get the right people. They couldn't stick. They couldn't figure things out. And then we had this thought like what if instead of hiring people that we can afford what if we hire the best people in the world at as many positions as possible and i remember my business partner who's the developer who built click funnels um he found an article it said something like an a player is worth i think it was like 2 000 times more than the b player and i was like that's true and i don't know if it is not but if that's true it means one a players were two thousand b players so i was like how about this what if i had four or five really good a players who are just you know top notch the best in their

industry and bring them in and then have them kind of manage each their own divisions what would that look like and so it was scary at first because to do that you mentioned equity like a lot of times we couldn't get an a player to come in for just like a salary and we couldn't afford their salaries anyway so we said okay well i don't have the best in the world and we're going to give them a little equity or give them uh some profit share something in there but by doing that we were able to recruit our first our first handful my first man seven or eight nine people that we brought in were all rock stars and each to them there were people i didn't have to micromanage i didn't have to like they all had a vision of of what they want to do individually in each of their departments. And so they were then able to go and create and do their things while I was able to do my thing, which was so good because

I'm not someone who's great at management. And if I would have had to like shift and learn and become master managing people, I don't think I would have had nearly as much success as we have, but because we brought the right people initially, it was, it changed everything. And so that's one that was big. Um, the second one that I learned probably probably four or five years to our ClickFunnels journey was, um, when we used to hire people, I would get a resume from somebody and I like to get video resumes. So I make a video, send it to me and I can see if I like your energy and if you're, if you're a good fit. And so I would get these, these, these, you know, I get a hundred applications. I watch all the videos. I'm like, Hey, these are the five or six people I think I'd really like to work with. And I had a coach that I worked with and I sent her,

I sent her a bunch of these, um, these videos that these people want to hire. What do you think? And she looked at them all and she said, these people are all just like you. These are not the right people for the, for the roles. And, um, she said, well, what I would recommend doing is step back and instead of hiring based on like how well you get along with somebody, you should hire off of personality and which I'd never understood that at all. And she said, I want you to do tests. I want you to go back to all these hundred applications we got and make them all take a personality profile. So either disc or, uh, Myers Briggs or whatever, you know, there's different, different personality profiling. Um, I did theC test, which is one that we hire off of nowadays.

Had them take the DISC test. I actually learned it from Tony originally. Tony was the one that got me into DISC. So we gave them the DISC profile, took it all, and then we said, okay, for this specific role, what is the personality profile that we need for this person to be successful? And so we figured out exactly what that personality looked like,

and then we went back through all the resumes, and we only pulled out the people whose, whose personality matched what we needed, uh, for the role. What was interesting is that none of the people that I had selected earlier made the fit. And my coach told me, she said, of course it is. She's like, you pick people who are just like you. She's like, you don't want somebody just like you and your company. Like they're good at sales.

They're charismatic. Like those people sold you on a video, but they're going to be horrible at the job. And she's like, the person that's going to be ideal is going to be from a – if he has no disc, you understand. For the role, I need an SC, not a DI. And so anyway, we ended up doing that. We got the SCs in there, and none of them wanted to do a video interview. They were all awkward, and they've all been rock stars who have been with us now for four or five years and changed everything. And so we started coming back and instead of just hiring based on resumes or personnel, you know, who we like the most, we figured out for each role, like what is the perfect personality profile of this person?

And then we apply the first thing we get is the personality profiles. If they match, then we go to resumes and interviews and things like that. That's great. And tell everybody, because they're not familiar at all with the disc and what an SC is, just tell them. But before you do that, also, just for your information, I'll give you a little minutia, little factoids. Tom Phillips and Bob King, who were the collaborators in Phillips Publishing back before Agora was big, they had a philosophy, hire the best and cry only once. I love that. That's so good. It's really true. And also you get you get you're right.

And whether the multiple is 2000 times better, 220, you get so much. Most people don't realize, Russell, that the biggest the biggest underperformance we get in business is not really just our marketing. It's not our advertising. It's not our lead conversion. It's not our failure to get greater lifetime value. It's we don't get optimal performance out of our team. Part of it is we don't hire correctly. And the other part is we don't train and develop

correctly you could talk towards any of those or none of those yeah no i 100 agree and um i remember when we did that i said my goal is i wanted you know before i was trying to how do we pay the less how do we pay less taxes i was like instead i'm going to change my mindset it's like i want to have 10 people on my team who max out the tax bracket. And that now becomes a goal and a vision. And also it's like, how do I pay people more? And then they start working harder. And then it changed everything as opposed to like, how do I pay less?

How do I not pay? It was like, no, I'm going to get 10 people. We're going to max out the tax bracket on all 10 of them, meaning that they're all going to be paid a million bucks a year more. And then you get a handful of people making that much. They have ownership. They're more likely to show up. They're going to do more and take so much pressure off of you having to be the visionary

of every single thing. And that was a, you know, for me, that changed, that changed everything. I love the cry once instead of crying a lot. But they're motivated. They're more motivated to see you grow and prosper than even you are. Oh, for sure. And it's nice because like, again, when, when I was in London it's nice because, like, again, when I was in London, everything went down. Like, I'm in the airplane, and they're up there pulling, you know, all my hiders, working, getting everything up because they're invested in it as well.

It wasn't just like, well, this is Russell's company. Like, when he lands, we'll figure it out. They were like, no, we have to make this, we have to figure this out. And they were just as invested as I was. And, man, it's so nice to have, you know, if I'm going to go to war, I want to see people who are invested with me,

not just me being out there, and hopefully the people are, you know, if I'm going to go to war, I want to see people who are invested with me, not just me being out there. And hopefully the people are, you know, going to, going to back me up. Love it. It's great. Thank you for listening to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. If you've loved this episode, then please take a screenshot on your phone and post it to Facebook, Instagram, or wherever you post stuff and be sure to tag me and let me know why you like this episode and what you'd like to hear in the future. That'll help me to know what's great for you. Also, Dan, Kenny,

and I would love to give you the most incredible free gift ever designed to help you make maximum money in minimum time. This free gift comes with almost $20,000 worth of pure money-making information for free, just for saying maybe. You can get this gift from Dan and from me right now at nobsletter.com. Not only are you going to get the $20,000 gift, you you can get this gift from Dan and for me right now at no BS letter.com. Not only are you gonna get the $20,000 gift, you also can get a subscription to two marketing newsletters. It'll be hand delivered by the mailman to your mailbox each and every month. One from Dan Kennedy and one for me to get this gift and your subscription.

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