Marketing Secrets with Russell Brunson - Matt Gray & Russell Brunson: Rewiring Your Subconscious for Business Breakthroughs | #Marketing - Ep. 47

Episode Date: June 25, 2025

In this episode of The Russell Brunson Show, I sit down with my friend Matt Gray for a powerful conversation about the hidden force driving (or sabotaging) your success: the subconscious mind. We go deep into how the beliefs you carry beneath the surface can either accelerate your success or quietly sabotage everything you’re trying to build. Matt and I share personal strategies we’ve used to reprogram our own thinking, uncover hidden mental roadblocks, and create breakthroughs in our businesses. If you’ve ever felt stuck despite following the right playbook, this episode will help you understand why. I also loved hearing how Matt approaches content - especially how he taps into the fears and dreams of his audience to create messaging that converts. He shares a brilliant (and simple) survey strategy you can use to build high-impact content from your customer’s subconscious beliefs. We even dive into the history of propaganda, PR, and the psychology behind why some people succeed with the same tools that others struggle with. This episode is a crash course in rewriting the internal script that’s holding you back. Key Highlights: How your subconscious beliefs quietly shape your business results - whether you know it or not The difference between conscious decisions and the stories your subconscious is really acting on Why traditional mindset work often falls short - and what actually rewires your beliefs Matt’s 3-question survey method to uncover exactly what your audience is thinking and feeling A candid breakdown of the “art vs algorithm” debate - and how to create content that stays true to your voice while still performing online The surprising link between Freud, propaganda, and modern sales psychology This episode will challenge the way you think about success - and give you the tools to shift from self-sabotage to unstoppable momentum. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://sellingonline.com/podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://clickfunnels.com/podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Special thanks to our sponsors: NordVPN: EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://nordvpn.com/secrets⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! Northwest Registered Agent: Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠northwestregisteredagent.com/russell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to start your business with Northwest Registered Agent. LinkedIn Marketing Solutions: Get a $100 credit on your next campaign at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn.com/CLICKS⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Rocket Money: Cancel unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠RocketMoney.com/RUSSELL⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Indeed: Get a $75 sponsored job credit to boost your job’s visibility at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Indeed.com/clicks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up everybody? This is Russell. Welcome back to the show. I hope you're all having an amazing day today and excited to hanging out with you. So a couple weeks ago I did a podcast episode with Matt Gray and he actually flew out to Boise and I got to interview him and it was a great conversation. And afterwards he wanted to do a podcast on his channel and he was like, what do you want to talk about? And I'm like, well if I get to choose what I want to talk about, I want to talk about how your subconscious mind either holds you back from success or it's the thing that propels you towards success. Hey, you started geeking out, I was geeking out and we had so much fun. So that's what this episode is. You can go watch on his channel

but I thought it would be fun to replay it here as well so you guys can just hear the conversation and hopefully give you some ideas. We're going deep right now in all things success and subconscious mind and a whole bunch of other cool things that we have coming out for you guys later on towards the end of summer. And so this will be kickoff towards those conversations

and I hope it gets you guys excited. So I appreciate you all. Thanks for listening, thanks for hanging out. And enjoy this episode with me and Matt Gray. This is the Russell Brunson Show. Well first off, this is amazing because you just gave me, which is a huge gift, so thank you.

I am really excited about this. What if I told you that the biggest bottleneck in your business isn't your strategy, it's your subconscious. Today, I'm going to go and meet up with my mentor and friend, Russell Brunson, and we're going to dive into how your subconscious can either be the biggest contributing factor to your success or it can actually sabotage their success. These are all the subconscious feelings, right? If I want to be a millionaire or a billionaire,

whatever the next level is for you, it's like, was a billionaire believed differently than I? We're trying just a lot of like trial and error around that, seeing like what sticks. You got me so excited. We're gonna show how your subconscious can influence things like your marketing, your content, your sales. And when you get it dialed in,

it's gonna help repel you to your goals and help you avoid massive failures that are in front of your face every single day. I never thought about the subconscious belief and building it that direction is fascinating. We're gonna share a lot of different tactics and systems that I haven't shared anywhere else. And I also learn a ton of things that help me go and avoid sabotaging my own success.

So I can't wait for you to see this. Let's get into it. I feel like I've uncovered something that I think we're both into, but I'm sure in very, very different ways, which is the power of the subconscious mind and its influence on different aspects of business and your personal life.

Jam on that, chopped up. Yeah, exactly. Get into it. We've got kind of the subconscious side of things, let's say, mindset side, and curious to dive into some of your kind of like practices, tactics, what you've seen really work, because obviously we got the sales side, which I know is something that you're super passionate about. And then the content side of things, which is something that we're both really passionate

about. From reading over the years, from mentors, podcasts, and just talking with fellow entrepreneurs, I've come to the realization honestly that what's going on in your subconscious is way more important than what even is consciously happening. The idea of not just programming your subconscious by thinking or writing certain things, but actually feeling them being the most important aspect is something that me and Russell jam on here. Most people that I know that talk about subconscious,

they start with like the mindset side, that's what they're focusing on. And for me it started the other way, it started with sales. And it's actually fascinating if you look at the history of it, again, I'm a book nerd. If you look back, the first person that discovered and started talking about like unconscious subconscious was Freud. And he was doing it from this whole like therapy angle. But Freud had a nephew named Edward Bernays. He was listening to Freud talk about stuff. He said, this is amazing. So Bernays came here to America, he started taking these concepts that Freud was trying to do for mindset and for

psychology and for, you know, therapy, stuff like that. He's like, I think I can use this to like, to make money and to change people's thoughts and perceptions. So he wrote a book called Propaganda, which is an insanely good book, taking Freud stuff, but using it for mass persuasion. How do we persuade people? How do we move people? The very first like big project he got was for the government. And at the time, whatever war it was, World War I or something, most people did not want to go to war, they were fighting against it. So the government brought him in and said, like, use stuff you figured out to get the whole country on board with going to war. And so he built these big, huge propaganda campaigns and then he went out there and he

persuaded and literally shifted the entire country where everyone was behind the war, excited for the war. So that's kind of the beginning of him testing out Freud's stuff in mass persuasion psychology. And he kept going, going in again, that time he writes this book called Propaganda, showing how he's doing it. But then propaganda becomes this very negative term. And so he goes back, he's like, we need to change this. So he renamed Propaganda Public Relations, which became PR. And he was the head, he was the one who founded PR. And so I came into the sales world learning about the subconscious, like through that lens of like the same way that I get somebody,

if I'm in an audience and there's, you know, 5,000 people in the room and I'm trying to get them to run to the back and buy my thing. Like understanding the psychology of that, it's the same psychology I need to actually change myself. And so then it's like turning it inwards. And then for the last two and a half years in my life, that's my obsession is like changing myself, my own mindset, through this same persuasion technique, subconscious understanding.

So that's kind of how I connect those things together. Oftentimes we think we're being conscious with decisions that we're making, but the truth is there's other stories going on in the background. I've gone and become consistent about every single night listening to a certain meditation. I love this one from Bob Proctor and this one from Wayne Dyer. And I also go and read a one pager that kind of creates my dream scene of where I'm looking to be over the next year.

And when I'm reading that, I'm really feeling into those emotions. And that surprisingly sounds like he has a similar strategy. I think one thing that'll help just make sense for people too, is like understand the difference between conscious and subconscious, right? The conscious mind speaks in questions.

So a lot of times we're asking questions over and over and over again. Whereas the subconscious deals with stories, which is why when you're doing yourself a night, you're not asking yourself questions, like you're painting a vision, you're painting a picture, you're telling a story for your subconscious mind to see and to understand, right?

And that's the thing that a lot of people miss. I'm consciously deciding, like, what is the thing I wanna change in my life? Or consciously seeing the thing that is broken, right? And then what we try to do is we try to consciously try to solve the problem, but like, you know, that doesn't actually work. A lot of entrepreneurs come to my world, they see like, we have an award called the Two Comic Club Awards. They see, I'm gonna make it two comic, it's a conscious, like I decided I want to win a Two Comic Club Award and they start going towards

it. And it's crazy. Some people like, it's very simple, they just go and they get it, right? And other people, it's like, they just can't, they think after thinking, they, no matter what they do, they can't figure out how to get it. And it's not a conscious thing. We give the same training, same frameworks, the same systems to everybody, but some have success and some don't. And the reason is because of the subconscious, like the story that's told inside their mind, right? Somebody who grew up in a family where the family, like, thought money was easy to get, and they just have this subconscious belief. Like, the story they told us, like, oh, it's easy to get money. There's money in abundance.

Whereas somebody who grew up in a family, maybe where people were like, money's really hard, it's very difficult. And they just have this belief, like that's this belief they have. When I understand that, it's like, you know, I have to figure out how to change that subconscious belief.

And there's a lot of ways to that, like what you're talking about, you're telling yourself these stories, putting that pattern into your mind versus the other one. Yeah, you know, you see it all the time, like whether it's like someone, they know they need to make content, they need to be putting their brand out there,

but they're worried what their team's gonna think. Or what are my investors gonna think? And sure enough, they have these stories in their head that are tripping them up and preventing them from doing the thing that they really know I think in their heart of hearts and like it's part of their calling in life to get that thing done.

But there's just these like stories that are sort of tripping them up. So the most beautiful thing about your subconscious mind is that you can actually go and influence it. I have a bunch of strategies that I've used, things like my board meeting strategy, and Russell's got a bunch of strategies that he's also used to evolve into a founder

of a multi-billion dollar company now. So we chop it up on those inside systems that we've used. I was pretty surprised actually to learn a few of his because they're new practices I'm gonna now integrate into my daily routine. Oftentimes it's that drama side of things, not the math side of things. It's really tripping people up. What's like the core thing that you sometimes find is like this is like a way to help others

or what's on your own life to get people over that. Let me explain on sales side because it makes it for me it's easier to explain here. It sounds like that's like where it's all started like it's all there and then it filtered down to what's like I rip it. I'm the worst ever one-on-one salesperson. I'm not good at that. It stresses me out but I'm really good at one to many sales. So the problem with one to many sales

is there's a whole audience of people and I don't know what their individual concerns are. You're kind of just like shotgunning out a whole bunch of things and hoping for the best, right? And so when I'm doing a presentation that I know the goal is to get somebody to go buy something at the end of it. For them to go buy something, I need them to believe this is gonna work for them, right?

And then I reverse engineer, like why would they not believe that? Like what are the stories they already have in their mind? And so it's like, well, one of the case studies I would share, cause it's like kind of a goofy one, but easy, it's like, let's say, let's say you're selling someone a network marketing opportunity, right?

As soon as I said that, I can show everyone listening, like you had an instant like visceral reaction. You're like, I love network marketing. You're like, this is the most evil thing in the world. Or put an idea into your head and you instantly, subconsciously had a feeling, but they have, they have this story that like, if I join network marketing opportunity, I'm gonna lose my friends and my family.

That's the subconscious story that happens. So I gotta think back, why do they believe that? Something happened in their life that caused them to do it. And again, I don't know each person individually. As a whole, what probably happened? So usually what happened is that either they joined a network marketing opportunity, they called their friends and their family and they got, you know, yelled at and they got hung up or they had somebody that they knew joined and the person kept bugging them.

From their heads, no matter how good I am at selling or persuasion, they are never gonna run the back of the room if that's the belief they have. Even though I'm giving a presentation or consciously speaking, I know that they have a subconscious belief that will keep them from ever buying my product. So I gotta figure out, okay, this is the story they have. What story do I have that would trump their story? Because if I can replace their story with my story, then they will move. If my story will trump their story, that story will fall away.

And then the new story will take over. And now when I pitch them like this is me, they'll run to the back of the room if they believe my story. And so that's that's how we do in sales. And so my sense the same thing. I come back and I'm like, what's the story I actually have right now? Like I have to tell myself a better story to rewrite the false belief. Otherwise it's not going anywhere.

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saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash clicks. Terms and conditions apply. Are you hiring? Indeed is all you need. All right, Funnel Hackers, let's have some fun for a second. One of the hardest parts about B2B marketing isn't getting attention. It's getting the right attention. I'm sure you know what I mean. Isn't it a pain when you see the weirdest ads showing up in your feed, ads for things you know you would never use in a million years, and you start thinking, that person is wasting so much money targeting me for a product or service I will never use?

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slash CLICKS. Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. So your subconscious doesn't just influence your mindset, but it can also go and help you with content. I go over some of my most favorite tactics here for really helping you understand what's going on in the mind of your core consumer so you can go and leverage the stories that they're telling, the dreams they have, and their biggest fears to then influence the exact content that you can create that's gonna help them convert.

Now I found this actually with on the content side, I see a lot of founders, when they're coming up with a content strategy, pull it out of thin air, you know, and they're like, I don't know where to get content from, where do I come up with these ideas? And one of the core tactics that I find is most useful to actually just create content that people either consciously or subconsciously want is to just go and

create a type form survey as an example, and go into survey your existing amazing customers and ask them a few questions. No, number one, you know, what's keeping you up at night right now? Number two, if you were to wave a magic wand, what would you want my help with over the next year? And number three, what is your biggest dream right now? And then taking all of those answers when you've gone to maybe survey, let's say 20 people, and then using that as the backbone to your content strategy.

So you're starting to kind of now craft content that solves those insane problems that they're keeping them up at night that they may not even consciously know that they totally want these things solved, that you can even solve this, but can kind of then spin that into a content strategy that not just attracts these people, but like really converts them to your thing because you're inherently solving those really burning problems or helping them really see that dream

in a way that if they're doing it right, they feel like you're almost reading their mind. Yeah, when I first started really executing on this, the coolest thing that happened with the sales stuff is they're more willing to buy, but then second off, sometimes you can consciously convince somebody to go buy something from you,

but then them actually implementing it falls apart. Those are the ones that people refund or they give up and they don't have success. Whereas if you do it correctly on the sales side, where you break those false beliefs during the sales cycle, their ability to actually have success afterwards exponentially goes up because those false beliefs are no longer holding them back. And so it's almost like the better you get at this and same thing on the content side, you break someone's false beliefs during the content when they do enter your world and decide to invest with you or get coached or

whatever the next step is inside your funnel. You've already done the work of rewriting the false police upfront. They're way more likely to comply and actually get the things done that you need to. It's quite interesting too, there's like that quote that like people don't buy what you sell they buy what others want to buy and so it doesn't always need to be just you breaking those false police if you can find obviously other amazing success stories from similar people whether it's an agency owner just getting started or that person running their first just you breaking those false beliefs. If you can find obviously other amazing success stories from similar people, whether it's an agency owner just getting started

or that person running their first SaaS business and showing their success stories. Yeah, they're not just hearing it from you. They're seeing like themselves in that other person who also had those negative beliefs and those things that were holding them up and go, shoot, I'm just like that. And look at the success they've been able to have

from leading into it. Okay, now I'm gonna subscribe to this trainer. So just like every company has its own intellectual property when it comes to your customer list or maybe even your tech, I believe that you also have content intellectual property. These are the common phrases that you use that become almost the monikers of your brand, the things that people come to know and love you for.

Now I went and discovered a kind of new strategy that I formulated with partly my own subconscious and leveraging chat GBT, which I share with Russell in this next bit. And I'm pretty sure it blew his mind. I want to run something by you. Something I've been playing with on this sort of level recently was inspired by Mel Robbins.

I just kept on thinking, Mel Robbins is such a genius marketer. Like these like different terms that she's invented, like that or the five second rule. My wife's a huge Mel Robbins fan, so I hear about it every day. She's crushing it. It's like number one on Amazon, number one on Apple.

I'm like, what is going on here? Basically, I went and thought, what is she doing here? What is happening? And it hit me that maybe something that's kind of happening is that she's taking all of these psychological barriers that oftentimes her audience has. When I did this with my own audience, I was like, go and chat with GBT.

Come up with the top 20 limiting beliefs or psychological barriers ranked from top to bottom that someone in my audience is probably facing. Overwhelm, maybe there's like imposter syndrome, fear of others, let's say, and like a bunch of others. And I had this thought of like, it feels to some extent that what she's doing is taking that feeling when it comes up in someone

and then like inserting like a catchy phrase that's like a trigger reminder of like oh what someone should do when they feel that way so as an example I've asked her one book you know she's got one concept let's say let them write the whole idea that maybe you're worried about what someone else's thinks instead of letting your brain go into that direction say let them think whatever they think and let me go and control what I can control move on but that feeling that trigger that comes up like 30 times a day. Yeah.

Like in different ways. Oh, I'm going to talk to Russell today. I hope I'm on my, you know, on my best today. And it's like, you know, at a certain point stop worrying about this. Like let Russell think what he's going to think and I'm going to do what I do and let's see where this goes. Yeah. Similar to our book, Five Second Rule, when you're procrastinating or when you're putting

off that thing that you should be doing, like using that rule constantly in your life. Or again, it probably comes up 20 plus times a day and thereby in some senses, like Mel Robbins concepts are like coming up in your brain, like 20, 30 times a day. And so I started thinking, okay, what would it look like to, with each of these like core blockers that my audience has either consciously or subconsciously, what are like different phrases that I have or could invent that help people overcome that? So say for a fear of others and what they're gonna think, maybe like a phrase is like, do it messy.

This whole idea of like, do it messy. Like launch this like thing that's kind of shit, launch a draft, like it's okay. Like if it's a bit messy, just go for it. Coming up with this basically like a phrase cloud that all of these phrases then deal with all of these like subconscious or conscious like blockers that people get into.

Then you have all these phrases, you can test them in like short form content, in tweets, in YouTube videos, see what catches fire and then kind of like double down on that as almost like your content intellectual property. It was crazy cause when I was reading her book, it was interesting the first 15 pages she's coming up with like,

so where do I even come up with this concept? I actually put a short form video out. Oh, really? And I shared this because my daughter had said it in the backyard. And sure enough, this video caught storm got like 20 million views in 24 hours. And she made a podcast around it. And it was like the number one Apple podcast around that. And she's like, okay, now I'm going to write a book around this.

So I'm curious on your side, like, yeah, what you do around this or how you're thinking around it, any strategies, you've been a genius with this in your own way like the concept like inventing a funnel I was like people were kind of thinking like I want to you know drive people from traffic to like a website I don't like a product like that's a funnel. Okay, like how do you think about that? I bet first off this is amazing because this left hand column these are all the subconscious feelings, right? When you have a conscious decision and these are things you're feeling though That's what you got to be aware of. And so it's like, why do I have the fear of others? Why do I have the imposterism? Why do I have those? Well, you just gave me, which is a huge gift. So thank you. It's just like, I never thought about that

lens of what Mel's doing or how to do in content. But this is what hit me. I don't know what she's doing this, but it felt, it felt, it feels like that. I think you're dead on. She may not even consciously know what she's doing, but that is, I am really excited about that as well. What this is doing is what we said earlier, it's just trumping the story, right? So like you do a messy, you're gonna tell a story about that. Next time someone has it, they're gonna default to like fear of others,

and that's the story, and then it's like, oh wait, I can replace it with this story, do a messy, and then that gives them encouragement and power because you trump a story. And it's like interesting because in the previous thing we were kind of talking about, like how to then come up with a content strategy around this, it's like, well, you have like maybe a chart

of like 20 of these fears or limiting beliefs or subconscious like various people have. Like that one thought, which in her case was let them, but in this case, maybe it's like, again, do it messy. And it's like, how do you then start to create like a bit of a content waterfall off of that? Basically put it in front of like a focus group online and like kind of go and go, okay, I'm going to make like a YouTube video off of like kind of go and go, okay, I'm going to make like a YouTube video off of this and then I'm going to go and I'm going to create six like IG, you know, reels off this, six

TikToks off that. I'm going to create like an email newsletter to just put it in front of enough people and see if like when you're in conversations with folks, like are people kind of like, oh man, like I was like having this trouble, man I was so worried about what my family was thinking, I was so scared and like honestly I just came to grips, I just gotta do a messy, like I love that change, and you're like, are you getting DMs around it now, or people are actually using that language, and you're like, okay shit, this is like a sticky idea. I think it's brilliant, like I always create content

based on, begin the hook or the external thing. I never even thought about starting it with the subconscious belief and building it that direction is fascinating. When I'm speaking from stage, consciously talking to them, I'm subconsciously telling stories, right? First phase I'm doing when I'm creating presentations, thinking, what are the false beliefs somebody has?

When I'm creating content, I'm not doing that. I'm not starting with like, what are the subconscious beliefs that's holding him back? Like, say when you're doing these big events, this one to many selling, the thing I didn't realize for so long is that there's actually two events going on. There's like the event that others are seeing, but then there's also this event that you're doing underneath all that, which is like understanding their beliefs, the beliefs that they need to overcome, inserting those stories where they just think it's this awesome thing that you just kind of put together and it's like amazing, like this is quite the show. But underneath that, there's

a lot of belief breaking, belief inserting, new stories you get. And I think that that's like the opportunity for both of us. My first mentor, Dan Kennedy, he had an event called the Influential Writing Workshop. And it was all about writing good sales copy. What we made all of this do is we had to go and list out all the false beliefs that our potential customer has. And then from there, we had to write a story for every single one.

And he's like, you need to build a repository of stories. He's like, most people, they show up hoping that a story will appear, right? So we made a sit down there for like hours, writing down every false belief, and then figuring out like a story from our past that would, for every single one that we could tell. And it was like kind of a long, brutal process.

But I look at the last decade of my life, literally 90% of stories I tell came from that exercise, right? I was looking at it from my writing copy, doing a presentation, and I've always looked at content separately, which I don't think is correct. So struggled with content stuff,

and I think that's probably one of the core reasons is I just haven't even thought about, same way I thought about everything else. It definitely noticed that about you, just while I was talking in person. You're like a story bank, like it's impressive. Yeah. I know I'm learning too from you, like that makes sense.

I feel like that exercise was quite transformative. It feels like it had a ton of dividends. Cause it seems like it's like created this repository in your brain. Like, okay, this new person that did a e-commerce business, this person that had that belief that was screwed up, this person that thought that network marketing was ugly or whatever the heck.

And after you do that the first time, then every time you see a story, you're like, oh, I can use it. And then also you become more aware of it. So first it was very much like a written out thing. And over time it becomes more aware, you know, a lot more in your head, but it's just, but it opens up your eyes to all different ways to use story.

So most people, you know, all of us, we'll go and buy something and I don't know about you, but when I purchase something, I'll go back and go, what exactly happened there that caused me to convert? Over the years from having been on enough sales calls, delivered enough myself, trained enough sales teams across my portfolio of online companies.

I think it's important that you really prepare for the subconscious script going on in any sales call. So we're going to go and break down how you can go and plan the different beliefs, the objections and the specific stories that you want to make sure that you're planting into the subconscious of any prospect. So they're convinced of your solution, your product and ready to buy. When you do your content stuff, where do you lead initially?

Where do you start? Do you start at the subconscious belief level? These days I am leading into this like subconscious, like belief side of it, with like those phrases that I just showed you. So me and the team, like we went and took like all the 20 most popular and limiting beliefs people have,

and then went and drew up either new phrases, kind of again, content IP, that's like unique, it's only owned by me, like people haven't heard it anywhere else, so that it's got like a stickiness factor that can then be associated with our brand. Yeah, we're trying just a lot of like trial and error around that, seeing like what sticks.

That's like, I think a more like advanced level, I don't think you need to do that out the gate. I do think that the thing that everyone should be doing out the gate is like the survey of three questions. Yeah. We live in a cool day and age where you can use again, type form or whatever you want to use for that Google forms doesn't matter.

And then even upload the whole CSV to chat. GBT analyze this and just come up with like, what are like the top 20 how-to videos I could create that would help the people in my audience? What are the top 10 lists? These people would enjoy and think about like the format that you most enjoy for whatever piece of content or platform you're making it for and see what ideas you can get from that. So we took all like 1500 podcasts, episodes I've done, uploaded my books, found all my presentations I've ever given. So we took basically everything I've ever said publicly,

threw it into Jad, GPT, and Manus, a couple different things. And then it's been so cool to be able to like ask it questions and pull out our analyzing patterns. Like what are the it's helped me just the last couple weeks speed up like pulling out ideas for for all these different type of things. I'm excited to run through the lens of the like what are the phrases or even like based on stories I'm telling what are the false beliefs I'm trying to break, you know, and like start reverse engineering what we've been doing over the last two decades and start figuring those things out. I always think about this like conscious mind has got to be a guard for our subconscious.

Cause if we're not careful, like you are allowing these beliefs to bypass your conscious directly into your subconscious. And you can see the results happening on the backside of it, right? And we have to consciously be a protector of like what we allow in number one. But number two, it's like auto suggestions,

all about like figuring out the things we do want. Like what are the things we need to believe, the things we gotta tell ourselves to like get our subconscious mind to point us in the correct direction, right? If I know this is the destination and I'm someone who models, right? So if I know like here's people I know who've gotten here, what do they believe? Like I got to figure out what they believe. If I want to be a millionaire or a billionaire, whatever the next level is for you, it's like, what does a millionaire believe differently, right? What does a billionaire believe differently

than I believe? What does a founder, what? What is whatever the goal you want, right? And so we modeled that and then reverse engineered, here's the things they believe that I struggle with. All right, let's create suggestions to give us to have the same beliefs that we need to have to get there, right? And at your current level, is there any content stuff that you're currently

noodling on on your own side that you want to chop it up on? We've been playing a lot with that recently to try to figure out my unique voice. I feel like we've been struggling a little bit. There's platforms we have like for me, it's like live events or podcasts where it's like, I can speak and connect to people in a certain way. But now, and when the internet got started

or social media got started, it was all based on like, we get subscribers, we give a message to our subscribers here now. But for most social platforms now, it's no longer subscriber based, it's algorithm based, right? So it's like a lot of times that we're, I'm having to create content in a way that's not the way I would normally do it

to be able to feed the algorithm and I struggle with that a Debate as old as our time our Versus algorithm so often I talk to founders and they get so caught up in the views the comments the likes And while the stuff is important as it can give you a general sense of how a piece of content is performing It also can lead you astray. So I guess for me the question is just understanding like how do you make it match to make it work? You know what I mean? Yeah, I think it's like this like battle that like every like founder and creator is going

through. It's you know, art versus you know, like algorithm. When you weight yourself maybe as like a founder where inevitably like there's got to be some like profit on the other side of this or else you can't afford to have the whole team around you. You have to consider the algorithm, but you don't want to ignore the art. When I ask like 60% of people that come and work at Founder West like what was it that caused you to want to do this together? A lot of it comes down to like some kind of commentary on like your vibe or energy. And if I just simply go and maybe optimize for the algorithm, I'm like scripting out word by word. I'm like crafting it exactly the way that I know that when this video went viral, they said this and I have this thing

there. And while you're architecting it like immaculately maybe for the algorithm, you're missing like the vibe, the energy. And then suddenly now it's like, oh, this is just some scripted BS. And I think we live in a day and age, especially right now on a lot of these platforms, we swung so far algorithmically, I think it's just like a online creator community. More than ever like just off the cuff behind the scenes, the authenticity like really is crazy. It drives me crazy as a consumer because I go see like 30 videos of the same thumbnail, same time, you know, say it's their version but it's like everyone doing the same thing like copying each other versus again like you said the art of here's what I want to teach, what I want to share. Yeah so the things that I think like that are worth like looking at in terms of the algorithm are like,

let's just say, use the example of a short form video. It's like, you know, like the general like word count you can go for. So obviously you're not gonna just like go on like maybe a 20 minute ramble for like a minute video. You know that you got about 130 words that you can do. And so like learning to like package up your ideas into that amount.

I think like the most important thing obviously is like the hook. On that side, what I've seen successful is like knowing the hook that you're going to start with, like lock yourself in a room and read these 10 books, they'll change your life. But then from there, just get into the 10 books that really change your life. It doesn't need to be scripted from there. What I also found useful, this is kind of I guess, kind of more of a Steve Jobs thing, right? It's like the rule of three.

Like, because you don't have that much time oftentimes to get into a given idea, potentially packaging up your idea when you're talking about it off the cuff into like the three core things someone needs to know. Where like art and algorithm, I think, mix is like finding like your, your brand. People are going to be able to stop the scroll more if like you're instantly recognizable. And where I think a lot of founders get tripped up because they think they're optimizing for the algorithm. But what they're quickly doing is like they're making a video that looks just like Hormozi's videos. And they have the same color scheme, the same font, the same hooks. And suddenly they just are watered down version of Hormozi, let's just say. Instead of sort of doubling down on what is your like color, you know, core color of your videos, right? let's just say, instead of sort of doubling down on what is your like color,

you know, core color of your videos, right? What's the core, you know, font? What's like your unique b-roll? What's like the sound that you use? It doesn't just have to be all the algorithm sounds of what's blowing up, like what's the sound of your brand? Like what do you listen to when you're wrestling or when you're writing? Like that becomes like, oh, I'm like in Russell's world, where we all get tripped up sometimes is that the platforms quickly tell you how many people like or view your stuff, but likes and views don't equal cash. And they can be really deceiving

because the things that actually reward views and likes, oftentimes it's like beginner content, viral content, controversial content, mass appeal content, but oftentimes we're not even talking to you. 100,000 are mastermind. Yeah, exactly. These are not even the people oftentimes that we're trying to really capture and talk to. And so you may actually see when you execute a more balanced, like art approach, where

it is more unique to you, you're talking about things that matter to that corner of your audience that you will see your likes decrease and you will see your views decrease, but you're actually talking to the right people. It's this like idea of like, you know, signal over noise, right? Noise being like the likes, the views and all that. What matters a lot more to me is like, I say follow like you and like a hundred other entrepreneurs on Instagram that like I respect the hell of. And if I see you comment on something or my friend, Daniel Dailin,

comment on something who I like respect a lot, who has good tastes, like successful, they know a good idea when they see it. That's 10,000 likes. So I'm kind of like trying to get a read on like the signal of a piece of content versus just like the views of it or the likes. It's especially useful for those of us that aren't just targeting beginners all day long, right? When you have a more sophisticated buyer inevitably inevitably you're probably gonna do your job right when you do have less views or likes, and that's okay.

The algorithm may show you that certain formats work, but again, if you just copy that format, not you, but anyone, you end up just being another one of those. So can you be more inventive in a format? It's not gonna get necessarily as many views or likes, but the right people are gonna see it and like save it, share it with a friend, and be like, how do I get in a room where Russell's doing this, which is the exact kind of person you

want potentially. For sure, that's awesome man, I love that, thank you, it's really helpful. Well listen it's been great hanging and a dream come true in many senses man and I appreciate and all the that you've done to contribute to the founder community over the years and you continue to inspire in so many ways and just really appreciate just all your generosity over the years and you continue to inspire in so many ways and just really appreciate, yeah, just all your generosity over the years. It like means a lot. It's changed my life. It's changed a lot of other people's lives.

And I definitely wouldn't be doing this in probably a lot of things in my life right now had it not been for a lot of the stuff you've shared. So just want to say thank you. I appreciate that, man. Thank you for letting me know that. Awesome. Finally making this happen.

We were talking about it for like a year. Yeah, exactly. We finally made it. Exactly. No, I appreciate it. Yeah. Awesome. Very cool. Thank you, Russell. Thanks.

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