Marketing Secrets with Russell Brunson - No Ads Needed: Katheryn Jones Lish on Mastering Joint Partnerships

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Recently, I sat down with Katheryn Jones Lish, an expert in joint ventures and partnerships, for an insightful episode of the Marketing Secrets podcast. Katheryn and I dived deep into a tactic that played a pivotal role in building ClickFunnels to $10 million in revenue without a single ad purchase during its first two years: joint ventures. We unpacked how these partnerships can provide a powerful alternative to paid advertising, offering a scalable and sustainable way to drive traffic and sales. Katheryn shared her incredible journey, starting from her dorm room with limited resources to mastering the art of joint ventures. We discussed the framework she developed for creating successful collaborations, including how to identify complementary partners, position your offer effectively, and use step-by-step systems to ensure both parties achieve their goals. Her approach has delivered transformative results, and she offers actionable insights that anyone—from beginners to seasoned entrepreneurs—can implement. Key Takeaways: Understanding Joint Ventures: What they are, how they work, and why they’re a game-changer for traffic and sales. Complementary Partnerships: How to identify partners whose audiences align perfectly with your offer. Breaking News Method: Katheryn's strategy for standing out and positioning yourself as the go-to choice for collaborations. Repitching for Success: Leveraging results to turn one-time partnerships into ongoing collaborations. Avoiding Common Mistakes: Why proving your offer and pitch matters before approaching a potential partner. Whether you're looking to break free from ad reliance or scale your business to new heights, this episode is packed with strategies that can redefine your approach to growth. Tune in and learn how to make partnerships your secret weapon! And if you want to enjoy the Marketing Secrets Show ad-free, check out https://marketingsecrets.com/adfree Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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the Selling Online or the Marketing Secrets Podcast, depending on when you are listening to this. We just finished recording a really cool episode about one of my favorite things to talk about, yet one of the things that are probably the, I'd say one of the least used marketing tactics of today. And it's the marketing tactic we used to grow ClickFunnels. A lot of people know we didn't buy any ads in ClickFunnels for the first two years. We grew our businesses, the business from zero to over $10 million a year completely through joint ventures and partnerships. And I'm lucky enough that this week we've got Katherine Jones Lish, no, Katherine. I almost just messed that up.

Here in the office, it's been a long week going live every single day, but she's here and she's someone who is one of my favorite people to talk about joint ventures with. And so we just finished a really cool conversation about that. So if you want more traffic, you want more sales, you don't want to pay Mark Zuckerberg or dance on TikTok or anything, but you want to get a lot of traffic into your offer, selling your products and services. You are going to love this conversation about how to do joint ventures. So with that, let's jump right into the podcast.

In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars in my own products and services online. This show is going to show you how to start, grow and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson and welcome to the Marketing Secrets podcast. All right, so I'm back right now with the second of our interviews today with Katherine Jones-Lish, I almost keep forgetting to say the last name. So sorry.

I worked really hard for that last name. I searched high and low. The amount of dating apps. Let me have it. Okay. Come on. We should cut out Jones then. Just Katherine Lish.

That seems easier to say. I know. But here's the thing. I was Katherine Jones for too long, but I have to have it. It's true. And I used to always think Katherine Zeta Jones. That's how I never forget it. My nickname in middle school was Zeta. So I'm telling you what, I'm open to it. It's true and I used to always think Catherine Zeta Jones. That's how I never forget it. My nickname in middle school was Zeta.

So I'm telling you what, I'm open to it. I'm here today with Zeta and we're gonna go deep into a new topic. No, we did a podcast interview a little bit ago. So listening to the podcast was our last episode probably. But this one we're gonna go on a different angle. We talked about selling sales funds last time, which is one of the genius things you are genius at. But the second thing we'll talk about is actually joint ventures and partnerships

and things like that. And I wanted to talk about this for a couple reasons and I'll kind of caveat this right now to see some context of why this is fascinating in my head right now. But when I got started in this business way back in the day, we did not have Facebook, we did not have Instagram, we didn't have TikTok,

we didn't have any of the social platforms. In fact, I remember when I was in college, the very first social platform I was aware of was called Friendster. Do you remember Friendster? So it's probably- I don't even know, I don't know what that is. It was called Friendster.

And I remember people freaking out, like you can go and you can find friends, you can connect. And that was a big thing. And then, like everyone was blowing up as this huge viral sensation. And then from there, this new company came and disrupted it called MySpace. And everyone's like,

we're leaving Friendster to go to MySpace. And everyone's on MySpace. So like, this is like where I got in the internet, right? And you couldn't buy ads called MySpace. And everyone's like, we're leaving Friendster to go to MySpace. And everyone's on MySpace. So like, this is like where I got in the internet, right? And you couldn't buy ads on MySpace or Friendster. You could buy Google ads. That was like the one thing we were buying Google ads. There was this guy named Chris Carpenter, wrote a book called Google Cash.

And it was insane. This is like, insert my potato gun story here. Cause like you read Google Cash and it was basically like, you go to Google and you buy an ad, you just pay five cents a click, and then you make you know a dollar over here and you could do affiliate offers or anything so everybody who read that book got rich it was like 100% success stories if you read that book because it was so simple. It was just like the perfect time the perfect demand.

Yeah the algorithms the price were cheap the algorithm worked it's like you'd go to Click Bank you'd find any offer you pick it up you go to Google you buy an ad and you just and it was just free money. And so everyone met, it was just crazy. I'm new to potato guns, I'm new to everything, like we're all doing that. And it was insane. I was like this, I'm the smartest person on the planet. Like I thought I was genius, right?

And then came the horrible Google slap, right? And it shifted and all of a sudden all the prices changed. And at that point for advertising online just got hard. And most people I knew were making a ton of money disappeared. I never saw them again. And there's been these waves that happened throughout the 25 years I've been playing this game where how would you make much money? And then some changes and they all disappear.

And so I've been on this cycle for a long time. Anyway, so for me, because of the Google Slap, I got so scared. I started trying to figure out how else can I get traffic, and we didn't have other places to buy ads from. So 100% of my traffic for the next decade and a half-ish came from joint ventures, from partnerships. And we used to go to internet marketing events,

and when you go to these events, all the speakers, all we talked about were how to do joint ventures and partnerships, and that's what all the conversations were. There were no conversations on funnel building, no conversations on traffic, or SEO, or Facebook, or anything, like all we talked about were joint ventures and partnerships.

That's how we all got traffic back then. And then what happened is this thing called Facebook came out and it got easier to get Zuckerberg to send you traffic than to talk to somebody else and have to build an actual physical relationship and talk to people. And so everyone switched to Facebook ads and that became the thing. And then I saw the Facebook slaps have happened over the decades

and same kind of thing. But what's fascinating is last year, so I have my inner circle and we have a $50,000 a year level, $150,000 a year level, $250,000 a year level. Everyone was in this room and I got up and I did a presentation on joint ventures. And of all the things like in my mind this is like a simple thing and people's eyes were popping they were going nuts. People like wait a minute you're saying we can get traffic and not have to pay Zuckerberg money. You're saying we can like I was like this is so fascinating for me like for the first

decade of my business this is all we ever talked about and no one talks about it now and so I want to have this conversation because I remember which funhack two funhacking lives ago I had you come and speak on on joint ventures and of the 20 some odd years I've been doing joint ventures and teaching and talking about it that was the best presentation I've ever seen so I'm not just saying that to make because you're sitting here I said that at the back of the room I've been watching like this is insane and it was amazing so I want to talk about that now I'm gonna so this is the longest intro of a podcast. I mean, it's making me feel good about myself.

So keep going. What else do you have to say about me? That's the best speech you've ever heard. What else? And then, okay, and then again, when I, my first meeting you, I was like watching you do your design hacking. That was the world. And also you started this campaign.

And I remember it was such a good campaign. I was literally messaging you, like, what are you doing? And you were talking about this sunroom and this house you bought and these things, like you're changing everything. And I was like, I was so engaged in this launch that you were doing, I didn't know what it was. And so I know that it became a lot

of this joint venture thing. So I'd love for you to lead with like, telling your sunroom story and the transition and then let's dive into like the actual mechanics of these joint ventures, how we can get traffic and things like that. Yes, okay, well maybe I could say this because I don't know who's coming to this podcast.

Like, I guess I think, well, just knowing you attract like very, very beginnings and you attract like the $250,000 a year people. And even the $250,000 a year people, like you said, they're like eyes are growing big because they don't even know what a joint venture is. Because sometimes you hear about it and it's like, oh, like are you getting VC Monday?

Are you like acquiring the whole thing? And the answer is no. Like what a joint venture is, is you have one party that has a product and one party that has an audience and you both agree to launch that together. So ultimately the person with the product pitches into that person's audience. And so one person supplies product, one person supplies audience, and then you split it 50-50. So anyway, so yeah, so how I got started with this was like you said, like I had built this course all about how to design funnels, but I didn't have a way to get traffic to it when

I first started. I'd only made 20 sales. I was living in my dorm room, literally in a shared room. I had like an Ikea bunk bed where you had like the bed on top and the desk underneath. And like I would like try to face my camera so you couldn't see the top of the bed. Like that's where I was at. I'd made 20 sales and I was just trying to figure it out. I could sell funnels, but I didn't know.

I was trying to learn how to sell a product still for my own and the nuances of all. I knew that my funnel works. When I got people to it, people were buying because I was good at funnels, but I was like, I don't have money for ads. Anyway, so long story short, I was like, I got to figure out how to give traffic to this dang thing. Because if people get there, they're buying. But I was tired of, I was just like DMing people, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I'm not, I don't want to like dance on social media. I like don't didn't know how to do that. Yeah. And honestly, nobody needs to see that.

And the next thing is I was like, SEO is really cool, but it takes too long. Facebook ads are risky because it costs too much. And so like like though I like had money for my funnel building business I was just like too afraid to like spend it on ads like I just I was too scared. And so I was like I got to figure out how to get traffic to this thing. I had heard about this concept called joint ventures and on paper it's the sexiest thing in the world right like just find somebody with an audience and then just convince them to let you pitch your product to their group and then they don't have to do any fulfillment, it's great for them and then you just split it 50-50.

I'm like. And you don't have to pay, it's not like Facebook where you're gambling ahead of time, like I'm gonna give them money and hopefully make sales. Like that person makes the sales and then you pay them a cut. It's so awesome. So zero dollars up front.

And then you only pay on the backend. It is so sexy. And then it's like, yeah, let's do it. And then you're like, dot, dot, dot. Like what, how, what do you mean, right? And so like you go look at all the advice and it's like, go to networking groups, develop relationships with people, blah, blah, let's do it. And you're like, dot, dot, dot. Like, what? How? What do you mean? Right? And so like, you go look at all the advice. And it's like, go, like, go to networking groups, develop relationships with people, blah, blah, and like, very comparable to my other story. I'm just like,

too impatient. I'm like, and I'm like, I don't even what do you mean, make friends, like, make friends. And then what like, that doesn't seem very friendly to me, like, I'm gonna make friends with you. So that dot dot dot, you'll sell my product, like, it felt a little bit like, like, to me, right? I was like, I don't like that. But I, right? And I was like, I don't like that. But I could see the math in it, right? Where I'm like, oh, I could, if I can just find, rather, the goal is always a million dollars, make a million, make a million, make a million. So I sold 20 units of my $1,000 course. I was at $20,000. So

I was like, okay, I could either sell a thousand people into this course and just pick them off one by one. I was like, or if I just find like 10 people that let me pitch their group and to make 100 sales per that, it just was like numbers to me. It was like, I got to figure this out. Anyway, and so again, we'll go into the mechanics later, but long story short, I figured it out how to get people to say yes to me. And it was just the most amazing thing ever because I would go, I'd pitch into a group and it was a warm group.

Like people who trusted me because their group leader trusted me. So they'd be like, it's like, like this selling alignment, like a lot of people don't know me from Adam, but they're like, because Russell says she's cool. She's cool. Then all of a sudden people are like, she's the expert, but they don't even know who I am. And they're like, Russell said, right, it was the same thing. You go to any group, Catherine's the best at this while, while they're like, I don't

know her, but he said so sure, you know, so you go in and I would literally just do my webinar to them and we'd pitch it and then we'd get people into our program and we would just track the people that came and we'd sell in the backend and it worked so well that I was like, why would I spend money on ads? So I just, and the beautiful thing about joint ventures is if they work once, they're going to work again. Like if that audience liked it one time, they work again. And if you set it up the right way, then what we would do is we'd just set up a joint venture so that every six months to a year, we're just like going back to the same groups, which is even more awesome because you convert typically higher and higher on the following ones, because the success stories that you

show in your pitch are just success stories from that group. So like, Hey, you don't believe me? No, I came here six months ago and for every single example I'm about to show you is from people in your group, every single example, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so I loved it. It was awesome. But the reality is I was like never intending to turn it into a product, which is seriously the same with funnel design. It's like so funny. I just like run into a problem and

I'm annoyed that everybody's answers take too long. So I just like figure out a way to do it better. Anyway, so I'm just doing this and I started having people ask me like it, because when you look at the advice online, which is like you kind of need to schmooze people, a long time the advice was like which is like, you kind of need to schmooze people. A long time, the advice was like, send people like gifts in the mail, and then maybe you'll get their attention and maybe they'll talk to you.

And you know, you're something that gets a lot of gifts in the mail. I don't get as many as you, but like I literally got one two weeks ago, or a week and a half ago. And it was actually this really nice, like picture of like Jesus and all that stuff. It was like sweet, cause I love Jesus.

And I also am like, I don't know who you are, and I don't even know what you want to talk about. Like, I mean, why? Like, and so I'm like, and it's like this, like, he looks like a middle-aged dude, and I'm like, I'm not gonna just like start a relationship with a middle-aged dude. Be like, yeah, like I don't know you,

but like, but if he would have sent me a pro, like how, hopefully we'll talk about today, like, hey, this is my intention in contacting you. This is why I think it'd be awesome. I think we should partner together. And I'm like, I understand exactly what you're talking to you, the nature of the relationship, why this is gonna be so cool. Dude, yeah, let's do it. Anyway, but there's just so much false advice or just I thought ineffective advice on how to go

about it. And so anyway, people are like, how are you getting other people to do that? And that was, I think a lot of the reason and why how I got your attention is because like a lot of people in your inner circle were promoting my thing. And so, so that we like didn't know each other. When I did kind of like make my initial pitch to be like, Hey, notice me, right? It wasn't like, who's this random chick? I don't know, maybe you can tell your story, but I don't think it was. And anyway, and so long story short, people like, how do you do this? How I'm just telling them, telling them, telling them in my systems, OCD brain is like very like methodical. And so they're like, oh my gosh, like this is amazing. So like one friend would call another and then another cone and all of a

sudden that's like, oh, I'm, I think I have a product here. And the thing that's so cool is I kind of fell in love with it because I love my initial, like my first big product took off with CF Design. So, you know, and I love that because it can take, it can allow anybody genuinely to make money online. It's so fun. And you make money online by helping other people make money. It's just like this beautiful gift that keeps giving.

But I loved partnerships because there's just like this beautiful truth that you could do more together than you could do apart. And I just like, I was just like so meaningful for me to be like, oh my gosh, like because we decided to work together, there's a result that neither of us could do separately. And it just like came alive to me. And so I loved like that concept on how to work with people. But I also didn't know like, I don't know, I didn't know if it was just like, Oh, I just had a good offer or like, Oh, maybe I was charismatic. Like, I don't know. And so I started teaching other people,

but I for real wanted to see if my framework would work for other people. So enter this, this video you saw. So my husband and I, we bought this house and we, it's a 1955 house and we loved it because the whole, like the, the, the back thousand square feet of it, that makes it sound like it's a huge house. It's only a 2000 square foot house, but half of it is glass. And we were like, ah! We just fell in love with this random house. We literally like, it is like in this old cutie neighborhood. We were obsessed with our neighbors. But you know, when God's just like mind and heart, it was like, you were supposed to live here. And we loved it. So we took it and we're like, it'll be so romantic. We're like, read it in the house. It was romantic and it was insane. It was insanity. My husband's like, let's do this again.

I was like, should we? I don't know. Maybe we can't, but we can't live in it at the same time. It was like too crazy. But, but so we have this house, but we finally finished the house and like we were living in shambles. Like we stripped everything down to the floorboards, like everything. So when, by the time we finally had a house, like it was the most amazing. You're like, is this the most beautiful house that has ever lived? Like I'm like, I'll put up any mansion. And you know, when you like put something in it, it'd be so funny. We'd drive by a huge house, be like, our house is better. It's so funny. Anyway, so we had this sunroom. But again, because we ripped it to shambles, we had no

furniture and we're both coming from apartments. We didn't have furniture anyway, so we had to buy furniture to furnish the house. So I was like, why don't I need to prove that this joint venture concept is true? So why don't we just leave our house open? Because it was just like, it's basically like 2000 basically open square feet because we like knock down every wall. And, and it's kind of like an event center almost. I was like, why don't we just like have people pay to come here and I'll teach these concepts. And I decided to do it because I really wanted to see if it worked. So rather than people buying like, hey, come to my house one time, they would buy like three sessions. So they'd come month, month one, month three and month five.

And then I had a second group that came on two, four, six. And so I'd be so like in month one, I'd be like, okay, this is what you need to do. Go do it. And then month three, how did it go? And then, okay, go do this and that. And the whole purpose was to build an offer. And then can you actually go sell it via joint ventures? Anyway, and so we called them sunroom sessions.

And so this campaign that I did was like, I'm burning everything to the ground, blah, blah. And so essentially it was just like, I used to be the funnel girl, now we're starting on this venture. And the reason I still love funnel, but it was just like rolling, you know? It was what it was.

And you know when your soul just calls you to do other things. So it was running, we actually had to have ads, we were doing a job Ventures to it, but it was living its life and it was fine. It was like, it's ready to build like the next step of the value ladder. Anyway, and so that's, I remember you messaged me, you were like, don't, you're like, don't burn your message. He's like, you could sell this, like you could sell like dough.

And I was like, don't worry, I'm not selling, like I'm not doing that. I just remember you saying like, don't burn it down. Good hook, good story. Yeah, I was like, it's good. I got him. I like messaged him. That's awesome. Anyway, so we did, we had people come and I was like, it's good. I got it. I like messages. That's awesome.

Anyway, so we did, we had people come and I was telling the back end, we intentionally invited any and everyone. I wanted to have really established entrepreneurs and brand new entrepreneurs because I wanted to see where the framework broke because I just wanted to make sure if I was selling it, it worked. For me, I feel like I want to be really, really, really, really sure because if I'm really, really sure, then I can go on I can like pitch my face for days But if I don't then I I feel like I'm like lying, you know, it's like it gets a little slimy

So I had people come and it was awesome. It was so fun First of all, I love doing events in my house because I don't I just wake up and I didn't have any furniture So it's like guys come on in it was like fun like our kitchen wasn't even done yet. Like it was crazy It was so fun that we just like on in? And it was like fun. Like our kitchen wasn't even done yet. Like it was crazy. It was so fun. We just like catered food. It was so great. But we just had people come and I was like, okay, step one, great, step two, great.

And it was really, it was really fun because of the people that came, we had a hundred percent success rate for the people that did everything I said. And if you didn't, or you tried to improvise, or you tried to get crazy, they did not succeed. And so it was like, okay, great, works, love it. And anyway, but I think the reason it works is a lot of why all my other principles

work like my brain just like loves to find the patterns that work over and over and over and over and over and over again. And because when I can find it, then I'm like, oh, I can repeat it. And something about that makes myself feel calm. Like, like I literally like, I don't have one right now. But when I was when I was in college I had a personal assistant and she'd like do everything for me it was the best her name is Maddie and I would just make like so I'd make a standard operating procedure for everything I'd be like okay like every new season I want I need like six new six new outfits you know just freshen up the wardrobe and I'd be like this is exactly what I want to look

like here's why I want you to model do this go there's my sizes great go and it was done and then like every every at the beginning of the week every week here's exactly what I'm done great every like six months this is what I want done on my car great done and so it's just so nice it's just like I know it's done I know it's documented it's taken care of for those who being like this girl's insane yes I know okay and sorry it's just not my framework but but anyway and it's really interesting because I don't care if anybody else lives that way. I'm like, I shared a room all in college and I'm like, girl, your side of the room is messy,

could care less. Mine will be pristine, you know? But anyway, but for me in business, if I can't understand the process, it gets really overwhelming to me. So for things like building funnels or joint ventures, anything I want to sell, I really want to make sure that I know the process. And so, again, we had people come to the sunroom, we tested it out, like anything that like didn't work, we ironed it out.

And oftentimes, you know, like when you start to pitch things, you're like, oh, I set the right thing, but you interpreted it the wrong way. So I need to say it a different way. And so like, it was so fun. So over those six sessions, we like ironed out how to teach it and how to say it and blah, blah, and then started teaching it to other people and having clients for other people. And anyway, it's been really, really fun to kind of learn like what's the best way to

sell this and how does it work. But yeah, I love partnerships. It's amazing. That's cool. What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. I've got something really cool for you today from my friend, Taylor Wells. And Taylor spoke at our last Funnel Hacking Live because I wanted him to share a really

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So go treat yourself to some wardrobe upgrades today at quits.com slash clicks. Before we get into like some of the frameworks and how the process works, two questions prior. I'm gonna step back. So you said you did $20,000 in sales of your own course and then you started enjoying ventures. Do you remember like the first one or one that was like a very impactful one that you did and what the numbers kind of look like? Well, I'll tell you my very first one and then I'll tell you my next one.

Number one and number two were the best. The best because they taught me the most. The first one I did was with a girl named Lauren Golden, you know her. And she, I actually did a master class in her group and I didn't even pitch but afterward people liked the master class so much that I had like 10 to 15 people coming by my program and Again, some of those first 20 sales and so she messages me. She's like, hey, like I want credit for this She's like, why don't we just do it again, but actually pitch and I was like girl love it But I was so far I had never done it before but I was like trying I was like I almost like I was trying

To do it. I was like, I'll do a master class. I'll do this You know, I had like a 10-step plan and all of a sudden I went from like steps 2 to 10 already cuz you're like Let's just skip the steps go like so I didn't really know what I was trying to do it. I was like, I'll do a master class. I'll do this. You know, I had like a 10-step plan and all of a sudden I went from like steps 2 to 10 already. She was like, let's just skip the steps and go. So I didn't really know what I was doing. So I was like, okay, but I'll give you 90%. Is that insane? I was like, I'll give you 90% and I'll keep 10. Because I was just so afraid I was gonna whiff it. And I was like, that way if I fail, like she can't be mad at me. Just baby-calf. And I was so scared. So she was like 90 and I was like, yeah.

And she was like, you want me to be like a good case study for you? And I was like, for sure. That's what I do. Yeah. You know? And she was like, I mean, I don't care if you give me 90%. We have since renegotiated our contract. I will say that. But, but anyway, so we pitch and I, we ended up doing like, it was like 34, 35, 36 sales. And, and again, I kept mostly nothing of that because I gave

it all the way to her, but it was amazing. I was like, holy crap. Like I had just spent like six weeks, like really like trying to like get those first 20 sales. And then because she said yes to me and I just like pitched 90 minutes in an afternoon and she had a warm group. Then I just like made 36 sales. I was like crap. This is awesome. So then I went to the next one and maybe it wasn't the next this is awesome. So then I went to the next one. And maybe it wasn't the next one. There's a few in that for the next one was with somebody also in your group named Doug Boughton. And so we do it with him. And this time, because I'm always trying to like learn and apply. I was like, okay, great. Like I knew he had a group. And I was like, I wonder if this is when I introduced something called tiered bonuses, where I was almost like,

I wonder if I can get the group to like sell for each other. So I go in, do the pitch. But then at the end, I was like, okay, great. Like if 50 people or if 20 people buy, I'll unlock this bonus. If 50 people buy, I'll unlock this bonus. If 100 people buy, then I'll unlock this bonus. And it was just like a test because I was like, I'm not pitching to a cold audience. Like I'm pitching to a tribe. And, um, and so I like, I wonder if I can leverage that to like get them, dude, it was, I got to show you screenshots. It was crazy. Like they'd be like, what number are we at? And they'd be like, so, so get your butt in this program.

You've been talking about this for days. Like, what's our number? Oh, we're at 36. Come on, you guys, like, let's go. And like the countdown happened and Doug and I are like, this is awesome. And so like, I literally was like, man, if I make like 50 sets, like, I'm like just starting awesome and so like I literally was like man if I make like 50 cells like I'm just starting at this I'm like a $50,000 launch in an afternoon that's like what most people make in a year I'm feeling good about that right and I paid $0 and I I would almost always do 50 50 split it just

kind of felt like it's just a no-brainer like it just felt easy so I was like okay because then if I hit 50 it's 25 25 just again free money and and then it was like, okay, because then if I hit 50, it's 25, 25, just again, free money. And then it was like amazing. And all of a sudden like people are just like going and going and I just put the hundred out there like just to see, I don't know, but I'm like, they're not gonna get it, but whatever. Dude, they did it. We passed 100, so we made 120 grand on that pitch.

And I was just like, what just happened? And it was just like this idea of like, okay, like I recognize the nature of this pitch as I'm pitching to a tribe, which is like one of the beautiful things also about a joint venture, right? Like you're not, you're pitching to people that like each other, like commonly united and they just like kept tagging each other and they'd be like, we need seven more sales. We need six.

And like literally people are on like being like tagging people like figure I'll give you a loan. Like I was like, this is awesome. This is amazing. So then that was the joint venture. I was like, this is the coolest thing. And then the next one, I got to tell you the third one too, because in the next one I did one with a guy named Spencer Mecham, you know him too. And it was actually Spencer's idea. I wish I was smart enough to come up with this, where we pitched and it went so great. We did 26 sales. And it

went so great that he was like, hey, how fast did you say people get results? And I was like, I was like 15 to 20 hours before they make their first sale. He's like, why don't you want to just like come back in a few weeks and just like show people that did it. And I don't know, maybe we make a few more sales. I was like, crap, dude, that's amazing. So I was like, yes. So I just like go, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm just like screenshotting people's

results. We go back in. That had bought from his group. Yeah. So when I pitched in his group, those 26 people, we followed them. I took screenshots of all the results. I went back two weeks later into his group and I was like, I'm just going to try this repitch thing. And it's so fun. I'm telling you what, repitches are the most fun thing because you just get a brag. You just get a brag about like, everybody put in the chat, tell us how awesome is Susan, blah, blah.

And if in the way that I structured my course, which I 10 out of 10 recommend everybody do it this way, is I broke it up into like mini challenges that people could do. So when they did challenge one, they earned badge one when they do challenge two, they earned badge two, which is awesome because my course had nine badges. And because I had nine badges, like if you think of a typical course, it's like, okay, great, you started the beginning and then at the the end you get a testimonial if they get the result. But because I had nine badges, there were nine different places where they were taking

screenshots that they were making progress to the result. So I basically got nine testimonials per each person, if that makes sense. So even if somebody hadn't made a sale or hadn't reached the end result in those 10 to 15 hours. Let's say the only thing they did was badge number one, which was they signed a contract that said, I'm in. I would still use it because I'd be like, oh my gosh, Jerry, he signed a contract. You guys, he started.

How many of you guys have wanted to start something you just don't and you don't and you don't? But look at Jerry. The man signed a contract. He's in the program. He's working hard. And Jerry means the world to me, this hypothetical Jerry, but like Jerry without the badge system, he'd be nothing to me.

Like he'd done nothing, right? But because you like set these many milestones, then all of a sudden this like bragging session, you can brag about the people that made money, you can brag about the people that are three quarters of the way through the program, halfway through the program because they are earning different badges. So I would just go through and I would just be like, if we had those 26 people buy, I just showed the progress of each of those 26 people. Some of them had made money, some of them were on badge six, some were on badge four,

some badge one, some badge seven, right? And I went through. And then at the end, like the transition into the repitch is basically just like, the only reason I could figure out why you wouldn't buy is because you thought it was too good to be true. So here are literally 26 people that purchased two weeks ago that are already getting results. So what are you waiting for? Yeah.

So do you want to come? And then, and so I'd be like, so I was talking with Spencer and he had the crazy idea we should open this thing back up. So we decided to open it back up for one more, like three more days or whatever. And then I would just go through the entire stack over again. And the lowest we ever did was an additional 25% of sales. And with Spencer, we did 100. So we made an additional 26 sales because it's like, if it's not broke, don't fix it.

And so I was just like, ah! And so it's like, yes, this concept, you have a product, you have an audience, and finding the right one is magic. And then these other principles of leveraging the fact that you're pitching to a tribe through like tiered bonuses, through repitches, like made this concept of joint ventures just lethal for us. And anyway, so fun. Loved it.

So cool. All right. How many guys listening right now are excited about joint ventures? I wish I could see all your faces, but, um, it gets me fired up and I'll tell one story and then I want to jump into process, but when we launched ClickFunnels, a lot of people don't know this. I didn't actually buy, I think it was almost two years

in before we bought our first ad for ClickFunnels. It was 100% the first year it was all driven off the joint ventures. And so what our strategy was is I would do a webinar with somebody and we'd pay them 40% commission. And then, but we had a two tier affiliate program. So I would do the webinar with them and then I try to pay the person as fast as possible so we do a webinar on Thursday we close down

you know Sunday at midnight so Monday morning I'm sending him a check for 40 grand or 50 whatever they just got right so here's the check thanks so much for promoting by the way we have a two-tier affiliate program and we pay 10% second tier so if you have any friends who would also like a big check like you just got we'll give you 10% of all of them. They're like, are you serious? And so all of a sudden they'd get eight, 10, 12 people. They'd email out, hey, Bryce's Brunson's webinars,

it crushed, I got 40 grand off it. And they made, most people, they all contact us back. Boom, we go and they had to run the webinar to all five of their lists, right? And then that person got 10% from all their friends' lists and they get 40%. I wired them the money, wire, wire, wire, ask them the same question and boom.

I did, I think, I can't remember, it was like between 70 and 80 webinars live the first year of ClickFunnels, all of that. It started with me doing one webinar that turned into 80 webinars that took us from zero to over 10 figures in sales. And then year number two, we did the same thing except for we evergreened them.

And it was just, we would have the joint venture partner record an intro and I took a recording of me that I'd already done the webinar a million times I knew it word for word and we would just edit the video put their bumper on it make an evergreen funnel for it and they would drive traffic and then they had evergreen funnel that now would sell the same thing and we just kept doing it and doing it and that was that's how we grew ClickFunnels and two years in right we should probably buy some ads now we've done webinars everybody you just got a list at this point so yeah it, it's all joint venture. So I 100% agree that's like the best way to do it. But it's scary because

how do you ask them like, hey, I want to be your friend, we promote my stuff. So I want to talk about your process because I think it's brilliant. And yeah, I'm not sure exactly where you want to go with it. I love you had a breakdown what people should be looking at after like, okay, I want to join ventures. I want to grow and scale company this way. Like what's the what's the path? Yeah, well, and here's what I learned. Yeah, as we go through this again, my systems break. So I was like, dang, how do you, because it feels like, hey,

why don't you let me come to your audience and you spend a lot of time and money to build, to pitch my product, the way they'll give me money and now they're in my ecosystem. It sounds like such a slimy, like terrible thing. So I was like, gosh, how do you do this, right? And so what I realized is that, what I realized is that at the end of the day,

what my potential collaboration partner wants, my potential venture partner wants is the same thing as me. They want sales, they want status, right? Like let's say I partner with you, right? Like we are partnering right now with the cell phone thing. So what do I get? I get sales, right? I actually get money. The next thing I get a status because my name is now attached to yours. So thank you for that.

Great vibes, right? The next thing I get is impact and impact is just helping people change their lives. And then the next thing is time. Like I'm able to do more because we're partnering together. So more with less. And so I was like, that's what I want. And I was like, they probably all want the same thing too. So I was like, so rather than me coming in and being like kind of needy and being like, wait, like, can I use your group? Like blah, blah. I was like, can I, can I present this opportunity, this offer to them in a way where it's like, oh, if I say yes to Catherine, I'm also going to get sales. I'm also going to get status. I'm also going to get impact. And I'm also going to get my time back. And so I started to think through like, well, what could that

look like? And I wasn't Russell Brunson. I'm still working my way to become Russell Brunson numbers wise. But I know you're like, you've been in the game for 25 years and I'm at number eight. So I'm like, I still got time. So I got time. So watch out. But that being said, that being said, I was like, I was just a nobody, right? Like nobody knew who I was. I was just, you know, had a thousand and 12 followers on Instagram. I don't have much more right now, but like, but I was like, how can I do it? So I was like, okay, let me like walk through again. I want sales, I want status, I want impact and I want time. That's what I- Write those down. Those are the four to write down.

Yeah. Sales, status, impact and time. That's what they want or that's what I want. And that's what they want too. That's what every business owner wants. So I was like, okay, how, let's start with sales. How can I provide them sales? And what I thought is like, okay, if I can come in and provide a complimentary product, right? Not a competing product, because if I come in and I pitch something that's a competitor of theirs, I'm not giving them sales. I'm taking away customers.

But can I find an audience where if I came in and pitch my product, I could actually extract more buyers from their lists. So like one example, like I can give because people know your audience, right? Like you teach funnels, but you don't like dive deep into like, oh, here's a product on like how to do ads. You have traffic secrets, but you kind of teach like here are the true principles, but like you don't have a course on ads. You just like don't. And so what, so when I came to FunLiking Live, I I went through and taught, here's the nuances of joint ventures. And so because of that, more people might have come to this funnel event that maybe

wouldn't have come because they were interested in traffic. They're like, Russell's not going to teach that, but he has a friend who's teaching that, so I'm going to come now to Russell's event. So I might go into a group, again, like yours, they teach funnels. I'm not really going to buy Russell's Funnels stuff. Like I'm here. I don't know. I got here.

I bought a freebie, but like, but I am interested in traffic. And so somebody that you weren't monetizing before is now monetized because I'm offering the next step, right? Like a complimentary product. And so that gave a big clue to like, oh, these are the types of audiences that I want to try and partner with people where they're typically step one and I'm step two so so the the product that I did the best with with joint ventures right was Was the first one that I did was just this funnel product, right? Funnel designs I was like, okay

Well who who was step one and if I'm step two like who's a who's a group of people that that need a funnel? So I was like, oh anybody does any kind of ads right? Like if they do Facebook ads the ads go somewhere, they need to go to traffic. So I had a ton of success partnering with people that had gathered Facebook groups, email lists, blah, blah, blah around this concept of Facebook ads. And I was like, Oh, well, then what about YouTube ads? Oh, and then what about Google ads? Great. Like, like all of a sudden, because like it makes total sense, like they don't teach funnels, but I am the next step. And so I wasn't competitive. I was complimentary, and so they were able to actually provide

an amazing service to their audience. All the while, they're making sales from something they would never make sales from because they're never going to make a product on funnels, right? And so all of a sudden I was like, dang, if I can go be complimentary and just find audiences where I'm not competing with them, but they come first in the customer journey and I come next in the customer journey, then I will be able to bring sales because I can extract buyers that they wouldn't typically extract. And that made like a ton of sense to people.

They were like, oh, no, that makes sense. Or like, you know, people have been asking for that. Yeah, sure. Let's do it. Or like, that makes sense that it's the next step. And so then we come to the next, the next tier of like, okay, that's how I can get them sales. Even though I'm a nobody, because I offer a complimentary product, I can extract buyers. And then it's like, okay, great. How can I give them status?

And there's two ways. Number one, it's so crazy. If you do bring in a complimentary product, all of a sudden they're like the good guy. Like, thank you, Russell. Gosh, I've been needing help for this. Thank you for having cool friends. But then the other thing is I like to call having a breaking news method. So the reality is like with the CF Design School program that I had, there are a bajillion product courses out there teaching funnel design. They're just like are and that actually is a good thing. It means that the market wants it. But it's like, okay, how do I stand out? And so what I called is a breaking news method. So how can I be so strikingly different

from everybody else that I'm kind of breaking news? That it's, it's like, oh, I'm not getting on the news because I'm a big name. I'm getting on the news because how are you so different? And so what I would do, and when I developed my product, I was just like, okay, can I help people get this result of funnel design in a way that just basically rejects all the things that everybody else says that they have to do? So other people were like, oh, you need coding, you need Photoshop, you need graphic design skills. And what I said is, oh, you can get that same result without coding, without Photoshop, without graphic design skills. And so what happened is not only did I become breaking news, but I was able to get picked over other people because

instantaneously they became irrelevant, my competitors, because they're like, oh, you need these things. And I'm like, oh, no, there's not. And here's proof. And so even though my competitor maybe had 10 years experience with me and made way more money than me and it made more big following than me, they were old news because they aren't breaking news. And so all of a sudden it was of value for this no name Katherine to come into their group to teach this new thing because it was this breaking news method. So for a lot of people too, they even ask like, how do you keep speaking on these big stages? Blah, blah, blah.

You don't even have that big of a font. I'm like, breaking news method. Figure out, because the reality is, let's say Oprah also taught how to sell funnels, or even do joint ventures or whatever. If Oprah taught that and I taught that, and my method was like, oh, I'm like Oprah just a little different. I mean, I would pick Oprah over me. Oprah's Oprah, you know?

But if Oprah's like, I help people sell funnels, but you have to go through graphic design college, or Catherine teaches funnels, but you don't have to do it, and you don't have to do coding in Photoshop too, I will get picked over Oprah for that particular skill set, right? Like- You think about, and you just call it breaking news method,

but I know our world, I don't feel like people do this, but when I got started, I was trying to figure out how to get on TV. I wanted to get on Oprah. I wanted to get on your shark take all the different shows, whatever back in the day. And so I hired a publicist and stuff like that. You look like what a publicist does.

And obviously you know this, but the publicist's job is to take the boring thing you do and figure out a cool spin on it. The news is gonna care. Cause the news stations, they all get 500 pitches a day. So it's like, what's the breaking news? What's the news stations they all get you know 500 pitches a day so it's like what's the breaking news what's the thing that's gonna be like oh that would pop off on a headline at news tonight at five o'clock and that's how you know I had a really good publicist and got me a ton

of shows because they took the ordinary thing I did but figured out a way to spin it where it's like it was breaking news and all of a sudden like like literally I was trying to get a whole bunch of news clips I can start pitching a bigger news thing so she lined it up like every weekend I was on a local news station somewhere around the country I was just flying get a whole bunch of news clips so I could start pitching a bigger news thing. So she lined it up, like every weekend I was on a local news station somewhere around the country. I was just flying thing to thing. And she's had different hooks. She was practicing or trying out there.

But that's the same thing here, right? Like I look at me at this point, like I mean, we get hundreds a month of people trying to join ventures with me. And I get everything from boxes to packages to people showing up randomly to their office, to emails, to DMs, to to all kinds of stuff, right? It's tough because it's like same thing with publicists.

They're getting 500 things and like they got to build a show. They need attention. How is what you're doing bringing that attention? Like what's the hook? What's the story that's unique, you know? So I think looking at that lens is like, yeah, you're pitching to a joint venture partner but I think you're pitching the producer at the news station, that's gotta find out something tonight that's gonna get people to flip the TV on,

click on the link, whatever it is, like what's that thing? So anyway. Yeah, no, I love it. So like when we're trying to give them sales, like the thing that you really wanna nail down with your product is your like tangible result. What's the result I provide people?

Because if you can get really clear on that, then you can very clearly show them like, no, you're here in the customer storyline and I'm here on the customer storyline. Like we're not competitors. I'm actually like such a gift to your people, right? I'm the next step. And then the next thing is get very clear on your, you called a vehicle, right?

What's your new, what's your breaking news method, right? How am I different from everybody else? Because that, because they might see like the first thing they're like, oh, you're right, you are the next step. But then what you don't want them to do is be like, I should get a funnel design person, but I'm not picking you, right? Like that's what you don't want. Thanks for introducing the idea, but I'm going to pick that person.

And so what you do is you also need to make sure you have a breaking news method to say, hey, not only do you need this, I'm exactly the girl you should pick, which then leads us to impact, right? So at this point they might be considered, and I'll tell you too, like how you can actually like tell them all these things. I almost like consider them like coins. Like you need to pay them a sales coin. You have to like pay them the proper like compensation for getting access to their audience.

So like you pay them the sales coin by showing them where they fit in the storyline. You pay them the status coin by having a breaking news method, but then they also want to have impact. They want to make sure that they don't bring someone into their group and it's a major dud. That's not going to help. What do you need to have impact? You need to help people actually take action.

I like to make sure that my breaking news method actually is very step-by-step. This is what you need to do because if it's step-by-step, people will take the steps and then also have case studies. Like this works for more than just me because people need to have faith that they actually can do it. It's like not just like this one thing. And so then the final thing is time. And this I think is really important because I'll have like a lot of like service providers

or coaches want to be like, oh, I want to do joint ventures. And there's like a million recipes of joint ventures that you can concoct up. But the reality is, is that the most profitable joint ventures are when you do it with a mass distributable product, right? If you have a course that you can sell infinite amount of, because that's very alluring to the partner. If you come in and you're like, oh, I sell Facebook ads, but I have three openings for clients. They're like, well, then I cap it up three. Like, I don't want to do that. But if you're like, oh, I sell Facebook ads, course. And if we sell 4,000 units today or 26,000 units, all the better, right? Like nothing breaks. That's like really

alluring. And that's where we can pay them this time coin, right? Where you get more for you, you do more with your time than you then you're doing now more with your time with me than you can before and they don't have to fulfill. So kind of having those things in place, like you're very clear in your result that can pay them with like sales because they understand how they fit in the storyline and the customer storyline.

You're very clear in your breaking news method. That's how you should pick me instead of somebody else, making sure you have a step-by-step method so that people actually get results and they are praised for bringing you in rather than like, oh, you like pitch me on this product and Catherine was a dud. And then you make sure you have a step-by-step method so that people actually get results and they are praised for bringing you in rather than like, oh, you like pitch me on this product and Catherine was a dud. And then you make sure you have some sort of mass distributable product.

And I might add on there too, making sure your sales pitch works. It's really awkward if you come in and you pitch. I've never had, I haven't had that happen, but I can imagine, right? Because you sucked, right? And that's your fault. You should do the work necessary. So whenever I tell people, oh, can I start doing ventures?

I'm like, can you get people results? And do you have a pitch that works? And usually if you get to 20 sales, you got there. That's really all you need. And I say 20 sales because that's when I started. Your pitch is good enough that you got 20 people to say yes and they can go from there. Hey, this is Russell Brunson

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Visit your Toronto area Ford store or ford.ca. Anyway, so when you have those things, then all of a sudden it's not like, oh, like, can I like, you know, like, what's it called, mooch? Can I mooch off your audience to pitch my product? It's like, no, like you'd actually be kind of crazy to say no to me because I have a product that your people need. You're step one, I'm step two. And I'm better than everyone else at it or different as you would say, right?

Breaking news method. I can help your people get results faster. I have a step-by-step method which guarantees whatever, as much as I can help your people get results faster. I have a step by step method which guarantees whatever as much as I can their success and your earning value is infinite because it's mass distributable. Like would you want to partner together on this? That's like a pretty alluring offer rather than like hey like you want to be friends and maybe I can use your list and blah blah blah or like I'm going to send you a million gifts. That's the other thing I don't like about gifts either. I love gifts. If anyone wants to send me a gift, I'm not mad about it. But if you send someone

gifts for the intention of partnering with them, it feels really transactional. Like all of a sudden you're like, oh, like it almost feels like you own them something or like, oh, like when are they gonna come in with their big ask? You know, like, yeah, like here it comes and you're like, oh, like that's not like how a fun relationship works. But again, like that guy that sent me that Jesus stuff, if he would have been like, Catherine, you do this, I do this. I can extract more bias from your audience. Sales done.

And here's why I'm different from everybody else. Breaking news method. I think we should partner together. Plus case studies, here's all the people I've helped before do it because I have a step by step method and I sell it in a course so we can sell an infinite amount of things. Would you want to move forward on this? Also, I'm like, hey, let's chat that actually makes a lot of sense It's a very sexy offer and then someone can at least say yes or no to cuz they know what you're doing I'm like I like still haven't even said thank you, which is rude of me

But I like haven't even cuz I'm like, oh, I don't know what the conversation is gonna be. Yeah, what's the intentions here? I don't know like I don't know and and again, I'm like very grateful and if he's listening to this I'm like very grateful for the gift But the reason I'm responding is cuz I don't know the intention of the gift like I just don't know like I don't know and and again, I'm like very grateful and if he's listening to this I'm like very grateful for the gift But the reason I'm responding is because I don't know the intention of the gift like I just don't know But that's what I love about this like step-by-step so often with joint ventures people just like don't know how to approach it Which is why there's all this like really fluffy I think kind of fake advice because people don't actually know what to do which is like go to networking groups make friends do this Wapa and the reality is you're always going to have better conversions with a warm audience.

Always. Whether you're trying to sell a joint venture or sell a $17 ebook, you're always going to have better because they already trust you and like you. But the reality is, is that like, okay, well then great. How do we make that connection quickly so that then we can present an offer to them, right? Like I think that so often it's like, oh, well you need to be in network green group and you need to be friends with them for a year before you ask anything.

Like for me, warming them up is just like, oh, you want to be on my podcast? And then literally immediately after the podcast, if it makes sense for me to do a adventure with them, I will pitch them on the idea right there. Why? Because what's a sale? somebody's in pain and I have a remedy So hey, you have a audience that is in this pain. You just told me on your podcast you do this I'm the next step like did you know that I do that? Would you want to partner together on that? Let me tell you I'm the best. I have a breaking news method. I've step-by-step We've helped clients do this this and this and it's actually in a product

We do a 50-50 split on the back end Is that something you'd like to move forward on? Let them say yes or no to you, right? But I think we just like build this whole thing up, partnerships, all this thing, and we're like, oh, we gotta fly these people out. We gotta schmooze them. We gotta wine them and dine them. And like, you know, there's so much status and ego,

like the higher and higher up people get. And I get it. Like, it's just what it is. And people do create barriers and all these different things. But what I love about partnerships and what I think like God was good to help me discover is they are so accessible to the beginner.

They're so profitable for the advanced because they have huge lists. But man, people are sleeping on like, some of my best joint ventures were with people that had a Facebook group of 500 people. Because if somebody has a Facebook group of 500 people, those 500 people are like loyalists Because they're why are you following this no name? It's because they like love they're like one of the OG's You know foundation which means they're even I would I would dare call them a hot audience rather than a warm

It's like my conversions would be crazy. So people are like, oh, I don't pitch them. They have a tiny group I'm like go to the tiny groups like cuz I would just make like 10, 30, $50,000 just like that. It's a 90 minute pitch. So awesome. And so that's what I love about this concept is like, yes, the concepts still apply at like very, very high levels. Which again, we've had clients in the eight figures, nine figures, but the reality is that the framework works at the beginning, but you need to make sure that you can prove

you have a tangible result, you're a breaking news method, you actually have case studies, you can prove that you've helped people step by step, and it's in mass distributable. And if you have those things, then you're, I call it like joint venture ready. And so anyway, but I think it's really cool. And I think where people can go wrong sometimes

is they try to approach a joint venture without being joint venture ready. They're just like, oh, well, no, you should just do it. And it's like- Perilous stuff, why? Yeah, or even like a lot of like established entrepreneurs, like, like you, right? Or like whoever, like, they're like, no, like, I'm good. I'm good. So like, I'm just going to pitch. And so they try to do a joint venture with like a brand new product, but they've never pitched it before. And I'm like, just prove it. Don't waste that opportunity. Yes, because that's like, you

may have one shot. Exactly. And because like, oh, the first time I'm pitching this is to a joint venture audience, and I kind of whiffed it, then all of a sudden, like you said, if you can nail it for the first one, then you can get them to refer, and then you can get them to refer. So I always like to say, even if you're the best marketer in the world,

you, right, practice it one time so you know, and then you can make sure that you nailed on the other ones. Yeah. So I'm curious for you, just thinking about the tangible side of like, okay, I understand the principles, how do you actually message those people? Like what are you doing? Because I start to feel like, am I sending an email? Am I showing up at their house?

Like what's the, like, how do you have that conversation? Like what are some of the easy ways to do that? Yeah, it's actually very simple. It's a two-step formula. You want to hear it? Number one, get their attention. Number two, present your coins. I call them coins, your sales coin, status coin, impact coin, and time coin.

So what I like to do, like to get their attention, I did this to you. What did you do to my attention? You marched out everybody. Oh, I seriously did. Okay. Well, and here's the thing that I have to point out. When I tell you what I did to get Russell's attention, people are going to be like, that's so simple.

He must be getting hundreds of those a day. Let me ask you this, how many people have sent you a funnel that looks like that? Or a request that looks like that? That all the pieces of yours are multifaceted too. Yeah. Right? Yeah, like here's the thing, like I think people think that

they're like sending stuff like that all the time, and it's actually not that common. Like people will send you gifts or all this stuff, but like a direct pitch like that, not as much. So anyway, so what I did for Russell is I was like, okay, how do I get his attention? I'm like, what does this man love funnels done? And what am I gonna funnel design? So I just built a funnel that said hey Russell. I made this video for you. And then in the video, what did I do? I was like, hey, here's the storyline. You're here. I'm here your funnel

You remember you like your funnel hackers are great, but they're missing out one thing. They need funnel design Yeah, I was like your your funnel hackers are in desperate need of funnel design. I was even kind of bold. I was like, is that being rude? I don't know. But I meant it. So sorry. But here we are. So it worked out great. Okay, anyway, so you're funnel and I teach funnel design, right? So tangible result. You're here, I'm here, I can extract these new buyers, right? And then the next thing I literally said in the video is

and on the page was, and I do it via no coding, no Photoshop, no graphic design skills. Here's my breaking news method. So yes, they need funnel design. Here's why you should pick me. Then I said, I do it in a six step science, step by step. I showed case studies. Here's all the people I've helped before.

I settled in a program called Steve Design School. And then I just direct asked, I would love to present this to your audience. We'll do a profit share from the sales that come from this. Great. Do you want to partner? And so that's what I did to you. And here's what I want to point out is that the route is that you just have to get

their attention and then present the coins. So some people are like, oh, I'm not good at funnels. That's okay. Like do it in a video. You could do it in a slide deck. You can do it in a PDF. And you came, I mean, you joined, well the 2CCX and you were at an event and you brought

a box that got me hooked to actually go watch the funnel. Yes, because he like saw the funnel. He was like really cool but I'm writing my traffic secrets book. I'm a little busy. He's like I'll follow up. So I'm like trying not to be creepy, you know. And I don't even know the rules to join Ventures yet, right? Like I'm just like trying.

I don't even know. And so like one week passes, two weeks, four weeks, five weeks, six weeks. I'm like this dude's gonna forget about me. And I'd like sent like a few follow-up, four weeks, five weeks, six weeks. I'm like, this dude's going to forget about me. And I'd like sent like a few follow-up messages. If you're just leaving me on red, it hurt. I want you to know, but it's what it was the reality of the situation. So I was in one of your coaching programs, but again, you like didn't know me. So what I did again, what's the framework, get their attention, pay them the coins. Right. So it was like,

how can I get this dude's attention without being annoying? Right. So what I did is I just like made a box, I put his, your face on it, and I put my face on it. And then when it was just like so loud, it was like so colorful, whatever, I may try like sat in the first round and just like put the box up. So when you're on stage, you can see it. And then when you had a break, I just like walk the box up and I was like, Hey man, this is for you. And you were like, what the crap is this thing? But when you opened it up, it wasn't like some random gift. What was it?

I like literally had a QR code to a video that said, Russell, you're here in the story. Like you haven't followed up. And I literally just called it out to you. I was like, hey, like it's been six weeks. You left me on read. I don't know how long is long. We used to you're going to follow up. But I mean, come on, man.

So I was like, if this is too soon, sorry, but I'm good. I'm talking to you. And I just like normal about it, you know? And so anyway, and I said, you're here in the storyline, I'm here. You're funneling this, I need this. This is my breaking news method. These are the results I've gotten and here's my product. I'd love to do a profit split from you.

And anyway, and so it was just like, get their attention, show them the coins, get their attention, show the coins. And it's really interesting because like you try to go after someone like you, right? Like I call you like a tier A person, right? Like I'm going to need to go to a little bit more length to maybe get your attention. Whereas these joint venture groups or these Facebook groups have 500 people in them or a thousand or even 10,000. Oh my gosh, depending on like where you're at in business, it's all subjective. Are you ahead

of me or behind me? Like, who cares? But like, a lot of people will see you and be like, oh my gosh, like Catherine's ahead of me in business. And so they're just like happy to receive a Facebook message, right? Like, or if I just like and be like, oh my gosh, like Catherine's ahead of me in business. And so they're just like happy to receive a Facebook message, right? Like, or if I just like go live like, like, hey, so and so like, I just thought your group would be amazing, I had this crazy idea. I think between what you do and I do, there's like amazing room to collaborate.

I kind of have an idea for something really cool. Can I, can I walk you through it? That's my get their attention. And then they're like, yeah, sure. Like let's chat. I'm on a Zoom. What do I talk to them on Zoom? Storyline, you're here, I'm here.

Here's my breaking news method. Here's this, here's this. So like so often it's like, oh, I have to do this whole shebang. I'm do this whole fun. I have to do something this whole video. And again, for like people like you, I had to get creative on how to get your attention. But again, we just sleep so often on these smaller groups or these mid sized groups, when they're just their customers gathered ready to buy. And that just want that just want them there. I remember when I got started, like, cause I first learned about Join Ventures, man,

20 whatever years ago. And I remember seeing the big names, right? So like Joe Vitale, Tony Robbins, I had the names. I made my list of these people. I remember I sent them all messages and like no one responded. And I was like devastated. I kept sending messages.

I'm like, why? And then I started getting angry. I'm like, these people think they're too good for me. Like, what's wrong? And like, don't they remember what it was like when they were, you know, I had all the attitude stuff that I had and stuff. And then I remember about the time there's this new guy

that popped up his name is Mike Phil Same. And he had just did a little launch. It wasn't huge, but he had, I saw him. He obviously he just sold something. Someone promoted it. So I, he's a new guy. So I messaged him and he responded right back. I'm like, this guy, he wrote me back.

Like, oh my gosh. And then I was like, hey, Mike, I saw your product. I bought a copy. It's so cool. And I was like, I have this product over here. He looked at mine. He's like, that product's awesome. He's like, I just got a new list.

Can I email for you? I'm like, I didn't even ask him. I'm like, yes. And so he promoted it. And then when he promoted it, then we got on the phone, we're talking. He's like, oh, have you met Gary Ambrose? And so he named three or four people.

I'm like, no. And so he introduced me. And it was like, we all were at this little level right here. He's like, Oh, have you met Gary Ambrose? And so he named three or four people like, no. And so he introduced me and it was like, we all were at this little level right here. And back then all of us, you know, my list at the time was 217 people. So it was tiny. Two 17. Yeah. I still remember very specifically. And that's how big mine was. And like, but we had four or five, we were all at this level. Right. And I remember we were talking like, yeah, I tried to get some, some known responded back, but we're all this level. So we all started doing these little promos back and forth, and what happens,

all of us started getting more successful, and then there's this next tier of people that all of a sudden one of us broke into that tier, and then we introduced, and all of a sudden we're all this tier, and then the next year, and eventually, Tony Robbins called me, I didn't call him, eventually Joe Vitali, because they kept seeing, they saw our group coming up,

and they're like, oh, these are the up and comers, and they started reaching back down to leverage our status. But it was understanding that. And I think for a lot of people, it's like, don't freak out if you can't get ahold of Russell Brunson. That's not the thing. I have people all the time, like, I made a dream 100, Russell, but it's a dream one

and you're the only one. I'm like, you failed then. Yeah, you don't get it. Don't try to get to me. Get the people down here that are one step above you and start doing there and then your list will go and your success and your influence, your status will grow and then it cut. Well and I think too that like you bring up a really good point I think with your story

of like growing and growing like you like people are like oh I made a list and it's you right? It's like you missed the point because I think how they're trying to use you is not the way we talked about. They're trying to use you as like a silver bullet like if Russell promotes my stuff everything everything's free. And it's like, well, you haven't, you don't have the currency, the sales coin, the status coin, the impact coin, the time coin required to leverage Russell. So at that point, it becomes that like transactional, like, oh, I'm just going to mooch off of Russell, right? But when you are like, like be where you're at, it's like so

amazing, be where you're at and like, do grow. And like, some people are like, well, I don't even know it's like so amazing. Be where you're at and like do grow. And like, um, some people are like, well, I don't even know anybody with a Facebook group. Here's what I, here's what's like the most amazing thing. Like some also my best pitches have been because I went live on somebody's personal profile page. They didn't even have a group. Like, but they have an audience and you just go.

So like, if you're just like trying to figure it out and start like these principles apply, the name of the game is you have a product and can you leverage somebody else's audience? And if they are complimentary, then it's a gift to that audience, you know? But yeah, I just, it was a, I think it was a gift for me. Like I love to that you start with 217 people. Like I just, I didn't know, nobody knew who I was. So I couldn't leverage status the way people ever said. I couldn't leverage sales the way that people, I I had to really get smart about the marketing of it. To be like, why would somebody want

to partner with Little World Me? And it's because the product I have and the way I deliver it is lethal. And that's what I think makes this game really accessible. Because if you really are an expert in your craft, the way that we teach joint ventures and partnerships, what we'd like to say is that it allows the people that deserve the microphone to be on the stage. Because if you actually have a product that works, then you're going to be able to book these things. And you're going to be able to skip the line. But if you don't, I mean, I'm telling you what, you pitch a bad product. I mean, it dies fast because it's all in reputation, right? Anyway, so I love that.

Trey Lockerbie I want to add one more thing to this interesting that I want people to also know is like, sometimes you're a lot, not sometimes, most of the time we pitch someone and they'll say no, or it's not going to work the way you want it. And you're actually a great example. Because you pitched me on promoting the webinar and I've never approached a webinar. Right? And now we know each other, did we say six years, eight years?

Which is rude, Russell. I don't remember. Sorry. Yeah, but think about it. It's been a long time. And so like you made that pitch to me and it didn't make sense for me to promote it, but I had a gap where I was like, but I know your skillset now.

And I was like, I feel like you'd actually be, you could serve my audience here, like plug you in and you were there. And that gave you status and stuff like that. I'm sure you made sales from that, but it wasn't directly, I didn't promote you. I just, I gave you a platform. I think it's been four times now, right?

Yeah. And then now six years later, we're working on a certification program. Those who watch the sales pitch, we're like, we were on the phone back and forth. And also it's like, what if we partnered together and we take your program, my program, and push it again? Like, and now we're doing a whole promotion, which is technically promoting that. A joint venture, yeah. But it's put together. So, yeah, sometimes it takes a little while, but there's always

other value that comes from it. It's not like they said no, or it didn't work right now, the whole thing falls apart and you ditch them. It's like stay connected. Like Tony Robbins, I was working with him for a decade before he did the first thing that promoted, but he gave me value throughout the relationship because I kept showing up, right? Like he had me speak at a business match in Fiji. He had me do these things. And like, you know, it wasn't what I asked for, but it was these other things. And then eventually it was like, then it made more sense could be a trust and rapport. So it's also like there's a short-term game It's also a long game just understanding like if you treat the relationships as relationships more stuff can blossom grow from as well well and I think they're like truly is a strategy behind that too like

When I was like a funny guy kind of reveal I call it the collaboration ladder, right? So it models your value ladder But ultimately like the more audience exposure that you want from somebody the more value you need collaboration ladder, right? So it models your value ladder, but ultimately like the more audience exposure that you want from somebody, the more value you need to provide, right? And so often, but there's other collaborations that you can do, right? You can speak on each other's stages, you can do a virtual event, you can do a masterclass, you can be on their podcast, they can be on your podcast, right? And what's so crazy is that oftentimes people are like, well, if I can't do a joint venture

then I don't want a relationship with them at all. When in reality, like you can leverage, you can get sales and you can get status and you can get impact in time, even if you don't directly pitch, right? Like I did that mastermind with Lauren Gold in the very first thing and I made 10 sales. I need him pitch, but I was able to provide value and so people were able to come back. And the thing that's most amazing is like, if you can get what I call on somebody's collaboration ladder, like, like if you can do a collaboration with them, even if it's them on your show, you're not even on their show, then all of a sudden you

have a relationship with them. And what have you done? You've gotten their attention. And because you've gotten their attention, what can you then do? You can present to them other opportunities. And so you can either, you can just slowly climb the value ladder you can do. But like, that's the thing that is like you ended up, uh, I asked for a joint venture and you didn't say joint venture, you said, Hey, why don't you come speak at Funnel Liking Live? I said, great. And since then we've done like a ton of, uh, master classes together.

I've been in your virtual events. I've spoken at your in-person event multiple times. You've been on my show. We're now doing this together. Like, um, and I, and I, again, I think that oftentimes we also only see like this game of Dream 100 or Dream Ventures is like, it's 100% or zero. When in reality, what we're trying to do again is leverage somebody's audience. And you can leverage somebody's audience to make sales even without a direct pitch.

Like this, for example, like people are going to listen to this and some people might go check out my Instagram, which might... Where would the Instagram be? Oh, Catherine Jones Lish, right? Like, but I am being serious, right? Like people are going to, and so people are like, oh, well, what I'm not gonna do is be, this hasn't been like a webinar,

but I'm leveraging your audience, right? And if you come to mind, you're leveraging my audience. And anyway, so I do think that that is like, seriously though, why I love this game. It's like so amazing that like what I've built can help you even though your business is way bigger than mine. What, what I'm offering you right now is actually helping your business and your business is helping my business.

Like it's just like so amazing that, um, that when you, when you figure out how to pair the right people together, it, it kind of like, uh, it's like no respecter of persons. If you actually have a good product for real, have a good product, then you can infiltrate and it just becomes really, really fun. So. So excited. I'm so glad to talk about this.

I'm not mad that you said that. I was actually, I cried. I was so excited when you asked me to speak at the event. So me giving you sass, there actually is no sass whatsoever. I was only excited. Oh man. Well, thanks for, thanks for first off being on the podcast, second off being a Boise this whole week,

hanging out, doing the sales, sales funnel challenge, but also sharing the stuff on joint venture, I think for my audience specifically. It's like, everyone gets so tied into Facebook ads or their free, or whatever the traffic source is, it's like, you know, when I wrote Traffic Secrets book, like the introduction was like, there's a storm coming and it happens all the time.

Like platforms are deplatforming people, the counts can shut down. And it's like, if everything, if I lost everything tomorrow, if everything disappeared, if I got all my social profiles shut down, everything like, join Ventures, I'd be fine. Like I would just like, okay, well, I've got a lot of people I've worked with over the last decade, two decades. Like, who am I going to call? I make a couple phone calls and be back on top. And if you don't have people that you've worked with over the past decade, what do you do?

Start. Start. And how do you do it? It's seriously so easy. Just like you have to start a full blown podcast. Just start a show. Literally just like name a show and go live on your personal profile page on Facebook and then also you have a show. Welcome to the Russell Show. Yeah, exactly. And then all of a sudden you have a relationship with people you've gotten their attention. So then what do you do next? Hey, that was so awesome. I think between you and you do and I do have a great time We'd be able to collaborate would you could I pick could I tell you what I'm thinking about and all sudden you're like opening

The doors to all these different things and what it cost you was a 30-minute podcast episode and Now even if you don't have a Rolodex from decades like I didn't you can just start to play the game Yeah, it's awesome. I love it. So cool. All right everybody, if you're listening at home, wherever you are, it's time to do some joint ventures. Yes! Add that in. Cause if you're only relying on Mark Zuckerberg, Zuckerberg means you've got one joint venture partner

and he's not the nicest guy. He will shut you down without even thinking twice. So diversify your traffic, do joint ventures, have some fun, get to know cool people, and it'll make this whole business so much more fun as you get to hang out with really cool people. Awesome, love it. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Appreciate ya. Bye! Bye.