Marketing Secrets with Russell Brunson - "Outwitting The Devil" with Josh Forti - Part 1 of 3

Episode Date: April 28, 2021

Welcome to the first part of a special three episode series! On this episode, Russell and Josh start talking about the book “Outwitting The Devil” by Napoleon Hill. They discuss some of the background of how this book was published, and then go into detail about the premise and the lessons that it teaches. Hit me up on IG! @russellbrunson Text Me! 208-231-3797 Join my newsletter at marketingsecrets.com ---Transcript--- What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets podcast. So I told you guys a couple episodes ago, I told you about one of my new favorite books, which is Outwitting the Devil by Napoleon Hill. I told you a little bit about the book and why you should read it. I told you I was doing a podcast interview with Josh Forti where he was going to ask me a bunch of questions about the book. We did that and it was really, really fun, and so I'm going to actually... I want to stream that interview to you guys over the next three episodes here on the podcast, and it's fun. The interview went way different than I thought it was going to go, and so I think you're going to enjoy it. The first part we talked about the book and the story behind it, and the breaking down the doodle and explanation, and the difference between faith and fear, some of the basic stuff. The second episode, we start talking about my biggest takeaways from the book and why personal development is important, and then Josh start asking questions about a time in my life when I used faith over fear and stuff like that. The story that came out, most people probably haven't heard this about ClickFunnels crashing and a bunch of other stuff, and so that episode two is going to be really fun for you guys. I'm excited, and episode number three is about my next book, so that was what the interview was about. It was really fun. It was a little over an hour long, and so we decided to break it up into three episodes for you guys, and so that's the game plan. So this is episode one of The Outwitting the Devil interview with Josh Forti, one of three. So when the theme song comes back, we'll cue that up. You'll have a chance to listen to the first one. Make sure you listen to all three episodes over the next week or so because I think you're going to enjoy it. The first one is really cool because you understanding why I'm so excited about this book, the biggest takeaways, but then some practical application, episode two and then episode three, we'll talk about the new book, why, what we're talking about, and a bunch of other cool stuff. So I'm excited. With that said, we’ll queue up the theme song. When we come back we'll jump into the first part of my interview with Josh Forti. Josh Forti: What's up, everybody! Russell: We're back. We're back. Josh: We are back. Russell: Four months, we're back. Josh: We're back. We're back guys. What is up? Welcome back to another episode of Think Different Theory, I'm going to claim this one, episode of Think Different Theory. Russell: And I'll probably also use it on the Marketing Secrets podcast; we'll use it for both. Josh: That's perfect, a dual episode. Guys. We are back. We were supposed to do this last week, but Russell's- Russell: Circumstances didn't allow it. Josh: Yeah. Russell was in a bad mood. So we have to do this, but guys, welcome back today. I'm really, really excited because we are discussing- Russell: One of my new favorite books. Josh: One of your new favorite books, Outwitting the Devil, which you recommended to everybody, the whole world, what? Like three months ago, four months ago. Something like that. Russell: Yeah. I'm shocked when people read it. If you haven't yet, go buy it on Amazon. There's two versions. I got to share this real quick. He'll share that while I'll tell you guys about this. Josh: Perfect. Russell: There's two versions of it. This one's got Sharon Lechter's notes, one doesn't. I'd get the one with Sharon Lechter's notes and oh, I talk to the camera here. Hey, what's up camera. And also you get the audio book. It's awesome. Because in an audio book, you can actually hear the two voices and one voice is the devil. One's Napoleon Hill. And it's amazing. Should I tell the story about the books? Josh: Okay. So actually I want to do that. I actually want to do this because how I want to open this up is, I want to take it back. Kind of take a step back because you've built Clickfunnels and now I feel like you've gone into kind of this new stage. You start reading a bunch of books and then you like geek out on Atlas Shrugged, and then you geek out on the next thing now we're at this book. So back us up, how did you find this book? Where did it come about? And then let's dive into it because I feel like context is important. Russell: Yeah. So, man, a lot of things. So obviously those who've read any of my books. I feel like I'm done. I wrote all the marketing books, I'm out of secrets. That's it. Trilogy is done. Work is finished. It's over. Josh: Guys, we're done with Russell forever. Russell: But then for me it's like, I don't know. I think in any area of life there's a point where you get mastery and it gets harder and harder to find new things. So there's all these incremental things, but there's not a whole bunch of new stuff I can discover, like oh my gosh, ah, freak out. Josh: Right, something about marketing you've never seen before. Russell: Yeah, so it's harder. And so for me, I'm a learner. I'm always pursuing education ideas and things. And so I started just kind of re geeking out on personal development stuff just because I miss it. I'm trying to think about things in my life. And so I was going through a bunch of different things and rereading a bunch of books I read back a decade ago, like Think and Grow Rich. Which by the way, that's kind of ... This Is the first edition printed Think and Grow Rich. Russell: Josh knows I'm kind of a geek with old books. You guys will see why more in about 18 months from now. We're doing some cool things, but this is first edition Think and Grow Rich. Think and Grow Rich was written by Napoleon Hill in 1937. It's the most, outside of the Bible, it's the highest personal development book ever sold. And it's really, really good. And so I was reading that again and then people kept tell me about this other book. And there's a lot of books. Right here, this is Think and Grow Rich, this is the Laws of Success. I'm trying to acquire a first edition Laws of Success, which is, I was telling you it's insane, expensive. Josh: It's crazy expensive. But Russell's over here, geeking out on all the books. Russell: I love old books. Josh: Actually a side note on that guys, the very first time ... So this is back at, I think it was the first or second offer. I can't remember mind lab mind, the big one. Offer mind you spoke at it and you were coming off stage. And I walked out and it was you and Dave and I like ran up to you as you were getting on the elevator. Do you remember this? Russell: Yes I do. Josh: And remember I was like Russell. And I didn't know you hardly at all this time. We kind of knew, basically, we had had some interactions. I was like, I'm trying to dream 100 you, what's a good gift? And you're like old books. Ding, the elevator door shuts. You're on the elevator, I'm off the elevator. And I was like, all right, that's all I have to go on. Russell: And you sent me some amazing old books. Josh: Yeah. Russell: So, very very cool. Josh: Yeah. Russell: Yeah. And so I just, again, I'm kind of going back through and I'm relearning from Tony again and from other people and stuff like that. But then this book keeps coming up and for some reason the title didn't grab me. I was like, Outwitting the Devil, it sounds stupid. I didn't want to read it. It never even crossed my mind as a book I was going to read. It's not something that I would really care about. And then one day I downloaded it on Audible. I download almost all the books I buy physical copies of- Josh: A hundred percent. Russell: I do it Audible too just in case. And I'm one of those kind of people that when I'm in a mood for something, that's why when I travel, it drives my wife crazy. I'll bring a backpack with like 40 books. I don't know what mood I'm going to be in. Russell: And she's like, why don't you bring a Kindle? I'm like, because like paper and I wanted to be able to hold it and see where the bookmarks at. Josh: Yeah, yeah. Russell: And the same thing is true with Audible. So I just download all the Audible just in case. And so one day I was working out, I was trying, anyway. This is a longer story, but I was trying to buy success.com at the time, it ended up falling through. I didn't get it. But Napoleon Hill was actually one of the original, he wrote for success in 1980. In fact, hold, this is kind of cool. This is Napoleon Hill's, he started a magazine. He actually talks about it in Outwitting The Devil. So he started a magazine called Hill's Golden Rule. This is one of the original, this one is from 1919. But anyway, he was also an author in the original Success Magazines back in 1800, I have a whole bunch of copies, actually 1800's and Napoleon Hill's articles in Success Magazine. Josh: Dang, that's so cool. Oh my gosh. Russell: So I had just gotten some of these things. And then one morning I was working out and I was looking at my playlist and Outwitting the Devil popped up. And for some reason I was like, all right. So I clicked it and it start talking about this magazine, talked about Hills Golden Rule, talked about Success Magazine, which I was trying to acquire the time and all these things. I was just like, oh my gosh. And so the very beginning he tells the story, he's kind of telling the story, I don't really know what I was going to go. He's telling this story about his life. And then all of a sudden transitions to this conversation is happening with the devil. Russell: And as you know, you've read it. Josh: It's so good. Russell: It's just like, I started getting like, oh my gosh. Why did nobody tell me about this before this is ... Let me put in perspective, I've read a lot of personal development books. I love Think and Grow Rich. This is so much better than Think and Grow Rich. Josh: It is, I agree with that. Russell: And, do you want me to tell the story behind or do you want to tell? What's the... Josh: Full behind... Russell: Just what the book is, where it came from. This is an amazing story. Josh: I just want to pass it over to you because I have questions about it. So I want to kind of hear things from your perspective here on this thing. I think a lot of people do as well. It's funny though, because when you put this on, gosh, I kind of picked up reading halfway through last year. I made a public declaration when I graduated from high school, I literally, I bought a pickup truck. Russell: I don't read anymore. Josh: And I put down the tailgate, I got up there, I stood up, I held my arms there and I literally yelled audibly out loud. I will never read another book ever again, outside of the Bible. Literally I was so done with reading my mom made us do all this reading in high school. Right. I was like, I'm so done. And thankfully that's not the case. Russell: Do you know what that reminds me of? I got done wrestling my senior year in college and after my last match. I've publicly said I will never run again. And then I gained 60 pounds, now I run. Josh: And now you run. Yeah. Russell: We had a similar experience. We were like- Josh: We'll never do that again. But six months into last year I started picking up reading more or whatever. And actually I've been averaging three books a month this year, which is freaking awesome. But, I'm halfway through. I can't remember what book it was. I see on your Instagram story. And you're like, everybody read this book. Russell: Every chapter, it was like, oh my gosh. Josh: Right. So I immediately go and buy it. And as soon as I finished the next book, I read the whole thing. And I think I read it in two sittings, right? Like the whole day I was like, oh my gosh, this is so good. So I do. I want you to kind of break it down for those people out there that don't know what it is. It is a story of Napoleon Hill interviewing the devil essentially. So I have a lot of questions just after you kind of explain the context of it all, but why don't you just kind of give people some context around what that is. Russell: By the way I spent last little while trying to take the entire book and put it into a framework like I do. So that's what this is back here, we'll talk about this. And some of the things… Josh: We have this here too. Russell: That hopefully serve as a framework for you guys. If you decided to read, here's some stuff to help. But, okay. Russell: So there's the story. So Think and Grow Rich was published in 1937, the next year. And if you've read Think and Grow Rich, there's times in here where he's like having conversations, people would pass away. People died, he's thinking about them and having these, in his head, these conversations that they come into the book. So it's pretty cool. So in 1937, 1938 he writes the manuscript for Outwitting the Devil. Josh: Yep. Russell: And so it's a year later. And the premise of this is literally, he talks about, I don't know if this is a little interview or if this was a physical, just something in my head, but this is the conversation I had with the devil. Josh: Yeah. Russell: And it's less of just an interview, but more like he's putting the devil on trial. He's on trial and he's like, you have to answer my questions. These are my questions. Josh: And the during this time, the devil, I can't remember how he explained it in the book, but the devil is forced to have to tell the truth 100% of the time. So any question that he asked him, he cannot lie. He has to be able to tell the truth. And that's one of the questions in there is he even says, it doesn't matter if you're religious or not. It doesn't matter whether you think it's a metaphor or whether you think he actually sat down and interviewed the devil. No matter what it was, the principles still reign true. Which is why I love the book. And you basically take that element out of it. Don't let that belief get in your way, still read the book. So, yeah. And 1938 is when he wrote the book, but didn't get published in 1938. Russell: Yeah. So imagine, this is one of the coolest stories ever. So 1938, he writes the book and in the book, he actually talks about the devil's like, if you ever publish this, it'll destroy your life, it will destroy your family it will destroy everything, because all the people fighting against this are going to destroy you. And so he finishes this book a year after Think and Grow Rich, has the manuscript. And he's so scared. He never actually publishes it. So he ends up dying. I think in '78, I believe. He passes away. His wife, second person gets the manuscript. She reads it. And she's like, I'm not publishing this. Josh: Yeah. Russell: She refuses to publish it. Later, she passes away. Napoleon Hill foundation gets the book. It gets to them, they read it and they're like, oh my gosh, this is probably the best thing he's ever written. Russell: And then they actually contacted, this is cool. I talked to Sharon Lechter last week. So I called Sharon Lechter. She's right here. Says- Josh: No way. That's awesome. Russell: Right here. Sharon Lechter. So she was probably the fourth person to ever read the manuscript. They sent it to her, what do you think we should do with this. So she says she got it. She sat down and she was reading it. And she's like, this is one of the greatest things ever published. If you don't know Sharon Lechter. She was the one who helped with all of the Rich Dad, Poor Dad books. She was the CEO of the company for a long time. She helped build the biggest financial education company on the planet. And now she's coming over here to this mission and she takes his book and she's the one who takes it, gets the manuscript ready for print. Inside of here's got her notes, which is kind of cool. Her notes taking it from, it was published back in, the last big crash what were the two- Josh: Eight, yeah. Russell: 2008. So she's sharing things in here and how they relate back then, which is kind of cool. But anyway, so she published it. Josh: And it's in the audio book as well, she kind of goes through and comments. Russell: She jumps in. Josh: There's a devil's voice. And then there's Napoleon Hill's voice. And then there's her kind of commenting, which is actually kind of cool through the thing. Russell: Yeah. Josh: Yeah. Russell: It is kind of cool to make it natural or make it kind of tied to the time. But I think even nowadays, a decade later, whatever, it's even more- Josh: Well. Russell: Applicable. Josh: And that's, what's crazy is you read the book and if you didn't know that it was written back in 1938, you'd be like, oh, he's totally talking about right now. Russell: Yeah. Josh: You have no clue he's talking about- Russell: Because some of the references he's talking about Hitler and Mussolini. All of these people and we're like, okay, well, the dictators nowadays are different, but that was who- Josh: Right. Russell: The things that were happening. Josh: Yeah. Russell: Right then in time. Josh: Yeah. Yeah. And just the craziness of fear and economic turmoil and depression. I'm like, huh. Sounds like where we're at now. So anyway. Russell: So that's, the cool story about it. It's just this book that this manuscript has been lost for generations from literally the best personal development author of our time. Josh: Yeah. Russell: And to bring it back. I was just visualizing myself as Sharon Lechter reading that original. Can you imagine just reading the manuscript and be- Josh: Being the first part of the third or fourth person to ever read it? Russell: So insanely cool. So anyway, that's kind of the backstory and then you get into it and it's fascinating. So that's the story behind the book. Josh: That's why you guys have to read it, how cool is that? Yeah, it's super, super cool. And kind of what I'd love to do, I want you to go through, because I think this is important. For the sake of time, I mean, we could probably talk for four or five or six hours on this book. But for the sake of time, the time constraints, I think this summarizes the book super well. Josh: And so I'd love to go through the book. I'd love to see your interpretation of the framework and kind of explain it. And then, it's funny because whenever I go through personal development books, you see everything through the world of funnels and marketing and things like that. I cannot read a personal development book without looking at whether or not the fundamental principles of it are true or what they align with. Right. So they align with Christianity or Atheism or whatnot. So I have questions about, because I'm a huge fan of the book. You're a huge fan of the book. Right. But there's some certain things in here that he talks about that I have questions that I'd love to know your opinion on. So I think if we go through and kind of talk through the overall context of the book here and then kind of pivot towards that towards the end, I think that would be awesome. Russell: Well, one thing to just kind of address that before we get too deep into it. Because I know a lot of people have this fear of reading, anything of what if I don't believe it. Well, I'm not this belief therefore, I can't. And I'm such a big believer in there's truth in most things, I think there's truth in all things. And I can read something and be like, oh my gosh, 97% of this, I believe spot on. 3% I don't really agree with, but I can still appreciate the 97% and love it and enjoy it and be grateful for it. In fact, I do the same thing in my personal relationships, I can talk to somebody I don't agree 100% with. And I still like them afterwards, which is something I think our world needs to learn how to do better. But. Josh: Yeah, even if you lose Bitcoin bets. Russell: Hey, now. Let’s talk about frameworks… That's 3% of him I can’t stand right now. Anyway, okay. So the way my mind works, when I read it ... So I read the book first time and I was just in this whirlwind of, oh my gosh, there's so many things. And I was re listening today as I was working out, trying to ... This is a framework, but there's so many levels and layers and things go deeper and deeper and deeper. So the first time I listened to it, I was just kind of overwhelmed because there's so much good stuff. Russell: And the second time I was going through it, I was like, okay, if I was trying to doodle this to explain to somebody what's the overarching- Josh: Yeah, what's the promise of the book? Russell: The framework. Josh: Yeah. Russell: That's just kind of the way if you've read any of my books, that's how my brain works. I read like 30 books and from there I'm like, okay, this is what I think they're saying. So this is kind of the premise. I'll walk up to the board and kind of show you guys this. But the basic concept is all of us, me, you, anybody. Right. We have a decision comes to us and we've got two choices every single time. And that's kind of where this whole thing starts from. So should I go over there? Josh: Yeah. Yeah. You take my mic too. Russell: Okay, I'm taking mic. So I know you guys can't see this perfectly and this is going to be the words they're all small, so I'll kind of talk through it and hopefully that'll work. So here's me or you. And this is us and we have decisions come to us. They come to us. Am I audio right here? Can you hear it? Cool. So we have decisions all the time. So the biggest thing is, if something comes to us, we can make decisions based on one or two things. Right. We're either making decision based on faith or based on fear. That's it, those are the two things. And obviously, especially in the last year, we've noticed, I think that this has been amplified. Where do most of us make our decisions? I think the way you'll find is that people traditionally make their decisions one way or the other. Russell: Either they make all their decisions towards fear, or all of them towards faith. And so that's something start thinking about personally yourself, as I start thinking about when I'm making decisions, am I doing them through fear or through faith? And I feel like people, not a hundred percent, I think you tend to favor one of these. And it's important because when you start understanding Satan, how the devil is using these as tools, it starts helping you think, I got to start making my decisions differently or else I'm doing what he wants. So I'm going to start on the fear side. So his initial goal is to get people to make decisions based on fear. If he can get that, you become what he calls the drifter. So drift or somebody who's drifting through life- Josh: I'm going to stop you really quick. Russell: Yeah. Josh: Really quick. I'm just going to take my mic back really quick. I think one of the things I want to just cover here really quick, is kind of the premise of how this, even before we dive into this, how this came about. Because in the book, basically Napoleon Hill asks the devil. He's like, Hey, listen, I want to understand what you, as the devil are doing to try to control people. Because in the book, one of the things that he claims, and I guess you have it up here, the 98%. Is that the devil controls 98% of people on the earth by getting them to do drifting, which we'll talk about here in a second. Right? And so the whole premise of this book is basically Napoleon Hill is interviewing the devil and getting the devil to explain how the laws of the universe work and basically how the devil is using those laws of the universe to pull people towards him. And then he also draws contrast of that, of how God uses them to draw people towards God. And so it's basically understanding the laws of success, the laws of the universe, how they work and it's, what is it? The secrets of freedom and success. So if you understand he's asking questions with the specific intention of trying to figure out how the world works, how the devil is using those, and then how we can use those things to ultimately have success if we can figure out how they work. Is that? Russell: Perfect. Josh: Good. Yeah. Russell: Cool. Thank you for adding that. That was awesome pre-frame and I think that ... Hope that works. When you understand that it's like, that is this that's the war we're in every single day, right? I mean, it's every movie. Right and wrong, good and evil. Right? That's the fight. Right? And so the devil here is showing, this is my playbook. This is how I get people to come to my side. And so his side, he calls them drifters. Drifters, people who are drifting through life. They're not ambitious, not doing anything. There's kind of there. And when you're a drifter, he controls you. And he said, 98% of the population he controls by getting them to drift. The first thing does that by initially, decision comes, you act in faith or act in fear. If you act in fear, you are moving down towards being a drifter, okay. Now he starts going through what are the most effective ... Ugh, so good. So many good things. But so he said, how does he get people to act towards fear? So he's like, these are my six tools. I have six tools. Off camera: Are we good on volume? Russell: Is the volume good? Do I need to yell louder? Okay. These are the six tools, the most effective tools I use. I have to get people to act towards. So the first one is poverty. If you can get them to fear poverty, oh, if I do the thing I might could be poor. Then I'm going to be fearful instead of having faith. And, I don't care if I'm poor, I'm going to go for it. Right. So he gets people to fear through poverty. Through criticism. How many of you guys have had a decision to make, and you have fear. Oh, what if people criticize me? That's one of his tools, right? Health. Ah, I don't know if I can do that. Because I'm not healthy enough. Loss of love, old age and death. So those are the six most effective fears that the devil uses that get you to take fear over faith. And he said of those six, the two most powerful are poverty and death. He can get you to be scared of, I'm going to lose all my money. I'm going to be broke. Or, oh, if I do that, I might die. Or, I might not... Those things. Those are the two most powerful tools. So that was really fascinating for me. I look to that because I have so many times in my life when I have decisions, I am scared of criticism or I'm scared of loss of love or whatever those things might be, right. Entrepreneurship. How many times you trying to gamble everything. If you're scared of poverty, right? Then it's like, ah. In fact, I have entrepreneurs all the time. This is a conversation I have way more often than you would think where they're coming to me. And they built the business to a certain point and they're stuck and they're so scared. And the thing that I always had to come back to them, what's the worst case scenario? Because there's a spot where they're so fearful. They can't act and they can't make decisions. They can't do anything. And they just are frozen and they start shrinking right there. You see them going from people who have the presence to be able to take action. Do things. These people are stuck and frozen. And I literally, my conversation I have over and over and over again, it's like, well, what's the worst case scenario. Because if you're not okay with the worst case scenario with poverty, with death, these things. If you're not okay with those, there's no way you're going to have faith to move forward. You have to break yourself of the worst case scenario. And so I see this in my own life. I see it in so many entrepreneurs, coach, I see this as the cycle for them getting to fear. So everyone take a personal reflection. Which one are the ones that you're most afraid of, is it poverty, criticism, ill health, loss of love, old age or death. Josh: And I'm actually just going to stand up here. Because I think it'll be easier. And one of the things that... So what he's trying to do is he's trying to use one of these six things to get you to become a drifter. Ooh, we just moved the screen. That's the key thing. And I'm looking at this camera here. Okay. That's the key thing that he's trying to get you to do is the devil wants you to become a drifter because if the opposite of being drifting is, and it's the characteristics of a non drifter over here, is you have definitive purpose. You have mastery over self, you have a learning from adversity, controlling environmental influence, time, positive thoughts over time. And then thinking through plans before you act on them. So if you have those things, that's the opposite of being a drifter. If he can get you to drift, then you don't have definitive purpose, then you're not actually going after anything. Then you're not going to be able to have control over it. And then he has control over you. And that's the comparison that he keeps drawing in the book, right? If he can get you to drift, then he has control over you. But if you're not a drifter, then guess what? Then he doesn't have power over you. And then you're ultimately going to have success and freedom in life. And so, these are the things that he lays out in the book and it's like, okay, look, if you choose to be a free thinker, if you choose to be someone who is like, this is what we're all about. Has control of your mind. You're going to come into this spiritual, mental, and physical freedom category versus the drifter category. Russell: Yeah. It's amazing. And yeah, I think what... In fact, I almost called this column here, definitive purpose. Because it's so in fact if you read Think and Grow Rich, he talks to the whole chapter about definitive purpose. People who say, this is the thing I want going to go through it. I'm at a definitive purpose. No matter what happens, no matter what obstacles, trials I'm going to go get the thing that's definitive purpose, right? Again, that's the big premise of Think and Grow Rich. And here he comes back to it. Again, I almost made the title of this, but it's not- Josh: I think it fits better. Russell: It does. But it's not an opposite, where this is freedom versus drifting is the opposites. And this is what it actually says in the book. Josh: If we just summarized it as one word drifters versus freedom. Russell: Yeah, yeah. Spiritual and physical freedom. Yeah, because freedom of mind, this whole thing is he trying to control the mind if you control your mind, you win. Josh: Yeah. Russell: And so, yeah. The definitive purpose, that's the number one characteristic of a non drifter is definitive purpose. Right? So, you're coming here. I'm an act. And you're like, oh, I got fear. I got fear. What if, what if, what if they criticize me? And you don't act. Where here you're like I've got definitive purpose. This is my mission. This is the goal. I don't care what happens. I'm going to go for it and you just go for it. And that's where you're acting in faith. I don't know the path. I don't know where I'm going, but I believe in my skillset, I believe in my mission. I believe in my calling. I'm going to go and you start moving and eventually you show up and you end up over here. Josh: Yeah. Russell: So anyway, and then these other ones are all amazing. We can go deeper, but. Josh: Yeah, we can go deeper. And I think we can hold this. This is the same thing. Right? Russell: Okay. Josh: So we can hold up there? Russell: All right. Josh: And that way we can get kind of back to poor Brandon's over there. Brandon's over there like, yeah. Russell: You're ruining my mic. Josh: Yeah. So one of the things I want to dive deep down in on this is specifically on here, you have this thing called hypnotic rhythm. And if I were to do this, as an overview, it's basically, there's a human and then there's the devil. And then there's God, this is basically how he describes it in the book. Right. There's the devil and there's God. And there's the human and the human is going through life and there's the devil pulling for him and there's God pulling for him. Right. And then that person has the choice. Russell: It's like two angels, devil on your shoulder Josh: Yeah, pretty much. Right. And then you have the choice to either choose faith or choose fear, which is why, one of the things that I've been so adamantly kind of fighting right now is, don't live in fear. Why is anybody fearful of anything? And I know that's easy for me to say, because I'm not afraid of death. Right. And that's literally one of the top things that he uses to control the mind. Right. And you look around the world today and everyone's so afraid of dying or it's like, who cares? Whatever. I know where I'm going when I die. But, that's one of the things that I've been fighting so strongly. So, I have a fear and I become a drifter or I have faith and I become someone with definitive purpose and I have freedom ultimately in my life. But there's this thing underneath that is kind of the core crux of what ultimately keeps us there. And it's, I actually have notes on it, but it's this thing called hypnotic rhythm. Russell: It was interesting because he talks about hypnotic rhythm after he talks about drifters. And he's like my goal is to get them into hypnotic rhythm. He says that if you go from routines to habits you have, it's going to be habitual. And they're habitual, they become hypnotic rhythm where you're stuck in this cycle. And he says is that how you control the drifters. That's how the universe controls everything. Josh: Yeah. Russell: Positive and negative. That's why, if you look at the bottom here, it's got the little whirlpool at the bottom for hypnotic rhythm. It's the same thing. So if you have good habits and you're doing things, do you get a spot where eventually it's a pattern that you're just stuck in. It's easier to stay in the 2%. If you're in the 98%, it's easier to stay there too. Hypnotic rhythm serves all things. Josh: And that's the thing I think is so interesting about it is the way that he explains it is hypnotic rhythm is the thing that keeps the world in harmony. Right? And one of the quotes out of the book that I wrote down is nature, which in this particular case he's talking about nature in the form of hypnotic rhythm. "Nature is not interested in morals, as such she is not interested in right or wrong. She is not interested in justice or injustice. She's interested only in forcing everything to express action according to its nature." Right? So when you go into hypnotic rhythm, either positively or negatively, you get into the rhythm of nature, right. And nature is interested. And if you look at it purely from an objective standpoint, he's saying that nature is only interested in making the thing, the object, in this case you do what has been designed to do. So if you're choosing to be in hypnotic rhythm in the spiritual freedom side of things, nature is going to keep you in that. And that's why, it's almost rewiring your whole brain and your whole life for success. It's why successful people continue to have success. And it's why non-successful people do not have success. And I think understanding that and understanding that hypnotic rhythm is, I almost like to think of it as the subconscious mind. Right? Once your subconscious mind goes into the hypnotic rhythm to just do the same thing over and over and over again, it's very, very difficult to escape that. Russell: Yeah. And you see it happen in your life all the time. There's times in my life, when I was wrestling where I had so many routines, so many things where that structure in my life was just, it happens on autopilot because that was what I did. Right. And so it was perfect. I didn't have to everyday figure out, how am I going to be successful? How am I going to have definitive purpose? It become part of me. Right. Josh: Yeah. Russell: It’s something in business, or other parts. I think that it's true. We get these patterns, these ruts, these things, wherever it is. Either positively or negatively, but that's the hypnotic rhythm where that's the goal is to get in those. But in the positive side, not negative side. Because you see it's a downward spiral. Josh: Yeah. Russell: Right. Upward spiral positively or downward spiral negatively. But if you get into hypnotic rhythm, that's the thing that keeps you in that spot. Josh: Yeah. Russell: Does that make sense? Josh: Yeah. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to Marketing Seekers Podcast. So I told you guys a couple episodes ago, I told you about one of my new favorite books, which is Outwitting the Devil by Napoleon Hill. I told you a little bit about the book and why you should read it. And I told you I was doing a podcast interview with Josh Forty where he was going to ask me a bunch of questions about the book. And we did that and it was really, really fun. And so I'm going to actually, I want to stream that interview to you guys over the next three episodes here on the podcast. And it's kind of fun that the interview went way different than I thought it was going

to go. And so I think you're going to enjoy it. The first part, we talked about the book and the story behind it and kind of the breaking down the doodle and the explanation and the difference between faith and fear and some of the basic stuff. The second episode, we start talking about about my biggest takeaways from the book and why personal development is important. And then Josh started asking me questions about time in my life when I used faith over

fear and stuff like that. And the story that came out, most people probably haven't heard this, about ClickFunnels crashing and a bunch of other stuff. And so that episode two is going to be really fun for you guys. I'm excited. And episode number three is about my next book. So that was what the interview was fun about. It was really fun. It was a little over an hour long. And so we decided to break it up into three episodes for you guys. And so that's kind of game plan. So this is episode one of the Outwitting

the Devil interview with Josh Forty, one of three. So when the theme song comes back, we'll cue that up and have a chance to listen to the first one, but make sure you listen to all three episodes over the next week or so, because, um, I think you're gonna enjoy it. Um, the second one's anyway, the first one's really cool because you understand why I'm so excited about this book, the biggest takeaways, but then, um, some practical application episode two and then episode three, we'll talk about the new book. Why we're talking about a bunch of other cool stuff. So I'm excited. With that said, we'll keep the theme song and we come back.

We'll jump into the first part of my interview with Josh Forte. So the big question is this. How are entrepreneurs like us, who didn't cheat and take on venture capital, who are spending money from our own pockets, how do we market in a way that lets us get our products and our services and the things that we believe in out to the world and yet still remain profitable? That is the question, and this podcast will give you the answers. the things that we believe in out to the world and yet still remain profitable? That is the question and this podcast will give you the answers.

My name is Russell Brunson and welcome to Marketing Secrets. What's up everybody? We're back. We're back. We are back. It's been like four months. We're back. We're back.

We're back. Guys, what is up? Welcome back to another episode of Think Different Theory. I'm going to claim this one as an episode of Think Different Theory. We'll probably also use it on the Marketing Secrets Podcast. We's been like four months. We're back. We're back. We're back, guys. What is up? Welcome back to another episode of Think Different Theory. I'm going to claim this one as an episode of Think Different Theory. And I'll probably also use it on the Marketing Secrets Podcast. We'll use it for both. We'll use it. That's perfect.

A dual episode. Guys, we are back. We were supposed to do this last week, but Russell's in a bad mood, so we have to do this. But guys, welcome back. Today, I'm really, really excited because we are discussing one of my new favorite books. One of your new favorite books, Outwitting the Devil, which you recommended to everybody the whole world, what, like three months ago, four months ago, something like that? Yeah.

I'm shocked how many people have read it. If you haven't yet, go buy it at Amazon. There's two versions. I got to share this. Real quick. He'll share that while I'll tell you guys about this. Perfect. There's two versions of it.

This one's got Sharon Lecter's notes. This one doesn't. I do want to share in Lecter's notes. And oh, I talked to the camera here. Hey, what's up camera? And also, if you look at the audio book, it's awesome because in the audio book, you can actually hear the two voices, and one voice is the devil, one's Napoleon Hill, and it's amazing. Should I tell the story about the books? Well, okay. So actually, I want to do that. I actually want to do this because how I want to open this up is I want to take a step back because you've built ClickFunnels, and now I feel like you've gone into kind of this new stage. You start reading a

bunch of books and then you like geek out on Atlas shrugged. And then you like, you got the next thing. Now we're at this book. So like back us up when, where, like, how did you find this book? Where did it come about? And then let's dive into it because I feel like context is important. Yeah. So man, a lot of things. So obviously those who've read any of my books, I feel like I'm done. Like I wrote all the marketing books. Like I'm out of secrets. That's it. Trilogy's done.

Work is finished. It's over. Guys, we're done with Russell. Forever. But I was like, but then for me, it's like, I don't know. I think in any area of life, there's a point where you feel like you get mastery and it's like, it gets harder and harder

to find the new things. So like there's always incremental things, but it's like, there's not like a whole bunch of new stuff I'm like can discover and like, oh my gosh, like, oh, freak out. Right, something about marketing you've never seen before. Yeah, so it's harder. And so for me, it's like, there's not like a whole bunch of new stuff I'm like, can discover and like, oh my gosh, like, oh, freak out. You know? Something about marketing you've never seen before. Yeah. So it's harder.

And so for me, it's like, I'm a learner. I'm always pursuing education ideas and like things. And so I started just kind of re-geeking out on personal development stuff. Yeah. Just because I miss it. I'm trying to think about things in my life. And so I was going through a bunch of different things

and rereading a bunch of books I read back, you know, a decade ago, like Think and Grow Rich, which by the way, that's kind of, this is the first edition printing of Think and Grow Rich. Josh knows I'm kind of a geek with old books. You guys will see why more in about 18 months from now, we're doing some really cool things. But this first edition Think and Grow Rich.

Think and Grow Rich was written by Napoleon Hill in 1937. It's like the most, outside of the Bible, it's like the highest personal book ever sold in a long time. The number one, yeah. And it's really, really good. And so I was reading that again. And then people kept telling me about this other book. And there's a lot of books.

This is like right here. This is Think Girl Rich. This is the Laws of Success, which right now I'm trying to acquire a first edition Laws of Success, which is, I was telling you, it's insane expensive. It's crazy expensive. But Russell's over here like geeking out on all the books i love old books actually side note on that guys the very first time so this is back at the i think it was the first or second offer i can't remember mind lab mind the big one offer mind um you had spoke at it and you were coming off stage and i walked

out it was you and dave and i like ran up to you as you were getting on the elevator do you remember this yes i do and i was like russell and i didn't know you like hardly at all this time like we kind of knew like we knew babe basically like we had some interactions i was like i'm trying to dream 100 you what what's a good gift and you're like old books ding the elevator door shuts like you're on the elevator i'm off the elevator and i was like all right that's all i have to go on and you sent me some amazing old books yeah very very cool yeah um yeah I just, again, I'm kind of going back through and I'm relearning from Tony again and from other people and stuff like that. But then this book keeps coming up.

And for some reason, the title didn't grab me. I was like, I wouldn't the devil. It sounds stupid. I didn't want to read it. It never even crossed my mind as a book I was going to read. It's not something that I would really care about. And then one day, I download. On Audible, I download almost all the books I buy, physical copies do an audible just in case and um i'm one of those kind of people that i when i'm

in a mood for something that's why when i travel it drives my wife crazy i'll bring a backpack with like 40 books i don't know what mood i'm gonna be in and she's like why don't you bring a kindle i'm like because i like paper and i want to be able to hold it and see where the bookmarks are yeah yeah and same thing through an audible if i just download all of an audible just in case and so one day i was working out. I was trying – anyway, this is a longer story. But I was trying to buy success.com at the time. It ended up falling through.

I didn't get it. But Napoleon Hill was actually one of the original – he wrote for success in 1918. In fact, hold on. This is kind of cool. This is Napoleon Hill's – he started a magazine. He actually talks about it in Outwitting the Devil. So he started a magazine called Hill's Golden Rule. This is one of the original.

This one is from 1919. But anyway, he was also an author in the original Success magazines back in the 1800s. I bought a whole bunch, I have a whole bunch of copies actually, 1800s and Napoleon Hill's articles in Success. Dang, that's so cool, oh my gosh. So I just got some of these things and then one morning I was working out and I was looking at my playlist and Outwitting the Devil popped up and for some reason

I was like, alright, so I clicked it and, um, it started talking about this magazine or talk about Hill's golden rule and talk about success magazine, which I was trying to acquire at the time and all these things. I was just like, Oh my gosh. And so at the very beginning, he tells the story. He's kind of telling a story. I didn't really know where I was going to go. He's telling the story about his life. And then all of a sudden transitions to this conversation he's having with the devil. And as you know, you've read it. It's just like, I started getting, I'm like, oh my gosh, like, why didn't nobody tell me about this before? This is, um, it put in perspective, I've read a lot of personal development books. I love Think and Grow Rich. This is so much better than Think and Grow Rich. It is. I agree with that. And do you

want me to tell the story behind it? Do you want to tell her what's the, what the book is, where it came from? There's like amazing stories behind this. I think I actually want to pass it over to you because I have questions about it. So I want to kind of hear things from your perspective here on this things I think a lot of people do as well. It's funny though, because when you put this on, like I, gosh, I kind of picked up reading like halfway through last year.

Like I made a public declaration when I graduated from high school. I literally, I bought a pickup truck. I don't read anymore. And I put down the tailgate. I got up there. I stood up, I held my arms in the air and I literally yelled audibly out loud.

I will never read another book ever again outside of the Bible. Like literally I was so the tailgate. I got up there. I stood up. I held my arms in the air. And I literally yelled audibly out loud, I will never read another book ever again outside of the Bible. Like literally, I was so done with reading. My mom made us do all this reading in high school, right? I was like, I'm so done. And thankfully, that's not the case. Do you know what it reminds me of? I got done wrestling my senior year in college.

And after my last match, I publicly said, I will never run again. And I gained 60 pounds. And now I run. And now you run. Yeah. Anyway, we had a similar experience. Yeah. So there you go. I'll never do that again. But six months or so it's like six months into last year i start

like picking up reading more or whatever and like actually i've been averaging three books a month this year which is freaking awesome um but i'm in the middle like i'm halfway through i can't remember what book it was i see on your instagram story and you're like everybody read this book oh yeah every like every chapter i'm like oh my gosh right so i immediately go and you know buy it. And as soon as I finish the next book, I read the whole thing. And I think I read it in two sittings. I like the whole thing.

I was like, oh my gosh, this is so good. So I do. I want you to kind of break it down. For those people out there that don't know what it is, it is a story of Napoleon Hill interviewing the devil, essentially. So I have a lot of questions just after you kind of explain the context of it all. But why don't you just kind of give people some context around what it is? And then, by the way, I spent the last little while trying to take the entire book

and put it into a framework like I do. So that's what this is back here. We'll talk about this and some of the things. We have this here too. That'll hopefully become a surface of framework for you guys. If you decide to read, here's some stuff to help. Okay, so there's the story. So Thinking to Grow Rich was published in 1937.

The next year, and if you've read Thinking to Grow Rich, there's times in here where he's like having conversations with people who have passed away. Like people died. He's like thinking about them and like having these, you know, in his head, these conversations that come into the book. So it's pretty cool. So in 1937, 1938, he writes the manuscript for Outwitting the Devil. And so it's a year later. And the premise of this is, uh, is literally, it talks about the beginning. It's like, I don't know if this is a literal interview or if this was a physical, you know, just something in my head, but this is the

conversation I had with the devil. Yeah. And it's more, it's less of like, just like an interview, but more like he's put the devil on trial. Like I'm, he's on trial. He's like, you have to answer my questions. These are my questions. And, and, and the, during this time, the devil, I can't remember how we explained it in the book, but like the devil is forced to have to tell the truth 100% of the time. So any question that he asked him, he, yeah, he cannot lie. He has to be able to tell the truth. And that's one of the questions in there is he even says like, it doesn't matter if you're religious or not. It doesn't matter if you think like, whether you think it's a metaphor or whether you think he actually sat down and interviewed the devil, whether, you know, no matter what it was,

like the principle still reign true, which is why I love the book. And like, he basically like takes that element out of it. He's like, don't let that belief get in your way. Like still read the book. So yeah. And 1938 is when he wrote the book, but didn't get published in 1938. Yeah. So imagine, so imagine this is one of the cool stories ever. So 1938, he writes a book and in the book, he actually talks about the devil's like, if you ever publish this, it'll destroy your life, destroy your family, destroy everything, because all the people fighting against us are going to destroy you. And so he finishes his book a year after Thinking We're Rich, has a manuscript, and he's so scared,

he never actually publishes it. So he ends up dying, I think in 78, I believe. He passes away. His wife, second person gets a manuscript. She reads it and she's like, I'm not publishing this. She refuses to publish it. Later, she passes away. The Napoleon Hill Foundation gets the book, gets the manuscript. They read it and they're like, she passes away. Napoleon Hill Foundation gets the book, gets the manuscript. They read it and they're like, oh my gosh, this is like probably the best things ever written. And then they actually contacted,

this is cool. I talked to Sharon Lechner last week. So I called Sharon Lechner. She's right here. It says- No way, that's awesome. Annotated by Sharon Lechner. So she was probably the fourth person

to ever read the manuscript. They said to her like, what do you think we should do with this? So she says she got it and she sat down and she was reading it. And she's like, this is one of the greatest things ever published if you don't know sharon lechner she was the one who helped uh with all the rich dad poor dad books she was the

ceo of the company for a long time she like helped build the biggest financial education company on the planet and now she's coming over here to this mission and she takes this book um she's the one who takes it gets the manuscript ready for print inside of here's got her notes which is kind of cool you hear her notes taking it from from, it was published back in, like the last big crash was 2008, 2009-ish. So she's like sharing things in here

and how they relate back then, which is kind of cool. But anyway, so she published it. And it's in the audio book as well. Like she kind of goes through and comments it. So there's the devil's voice

and then there's Napoleon Hill's voice and then there's her like kind of commenting, which is actually kind of cool. Yeah. It's kind of cool to make it natural or make it kind of tied to the time yeah but i think even

nowadays you know decade later whatever it's even more applicable and that's what's crazy is you read the book and if you didn't know that it was public or like that it was written back in 1938 you'd be like oh he's totally talking about right now yeah like you have no clue you know because some of the references he's talking about hitler and mussolini all these people are like okay well the dictators nowadays are different but that was who you know, the things that were happening right then at time. But. Yeah, and just like the craziness of like fear and economic turmoil and, you know, depression.

I'm like, huh, sounds like where we're at now. So anyway. So that's the cool story about it. It's just like this book that, this manuscript has been lost for generations from literally the best personal development author of our time. Yeah.

And to bring it back, like I had, I was just visualizing myself as Sharon Le leckner reading that original can you imagine like just reading the manuscript and just be like like be the first part of the third or fourth person to ever read it so insanely cool so anyway that's kind of the backstory and you get into it and it's it's fascinating so that's that's the story behind the book yeah you guys have to read how cool is that yeah it's super super cool and like kind of like what i'd love to do is i i want to i want you to go through because i think this is important like for the sake of time, I mean, we could probably talk for four or five or six hours on this book, right. But for the sake of time, uh, the time constraints, I think this

summarizes the book super well. And so I'd love to like go through the book. I'd love to like, like see your interpretation of the frameworks and kind of explain it. And then like, it's funny because how I, whenever I go through personal development books, like you see everything from the world of like funnels and marketing and, you know, things like that. Like I cannot read a personal development book without like looking at whether or not the fundamental principles of it are like true

or like what they align with, right? So they align with Christianity or atheism or like whatnot. So I have questions about, cause like I'm a huge fan of the book. You're a huge fan of the book, right? But like, there's some certain things in here that he talks about that I have like questions that I'd love to know your opinion on.

So I think if we go through and kind of like talk through the overall context of the book here and then kind of pivot towards that, towards the end, I think it'll be awesome. One thing to just kind of address that before we get too deep into it, cause I know a lot of people have this fear of reading anything of like,

well, what if I don't believe it? Like, well, I'm not this bleep, therefore I can't. And I'm like, I'm such a big believer in this truth in most things, I think there's truth in all things. And I can read something and be like, oh my gosh, like 97% of this, I believe spot on 3%. I don't really agree with, but I can still appreciate the 97% and like love it and enjoy it and be grateful for it. In fact, I can say the same thing in my personal relationships. I can talk to somebody I don't agree 100% with and I still like them afterwards, which is something I think our world needs to learn how to do better.

Yeah, even if you lose a Bitcoin bets. Hey now. Yeah. All right. That's 3% of him I can't stand right now. Anyway. Okay. So the way my mind works, when I read, so I read the book first time

and I was just like in this whirlwind of like, oh my gosh, there's so many things. And I find I really listened today as I was working out, trying to like, like this, this, this is like a framework, but there's so many levels and layers and things go deeper and deeper and deeper. So, um, the first time I listened to it, I was just like kind of overwhelmed because there's so much good stuff. And the second time I was going through, I was like, okay, if I was trying to do the list to explain it to somebody, like how, like what's the overarching framework that I do. And that's just kind of the way I,

if you've ever read any of my books, you know, that's how my brain works. I read like 30 books. And from there I'm like, okay, this is what I think they're saying. So this is kind of the premise. I'll walk up to the board and kind of show you guys this. But the basic concept is all of us, me, you, like anybody, right? We have a decision that comes to us and we've got two choices every single time. And that's kind of where this whole thing starts from. So should I go over there?

Yeah, yeah. You can take my mic too. Okay. I'm taking a mic. So I know you guys can't see this perfectly and there's going to be the the words are all small. So I'll kind of talk through it and hopefully that'll, that'll work. So here's, here's me or you, and this is us. And we have decisions come to us. They come to us in my, in my audio right here. Can you hear it? Cool. So we have decisions all the time. So the biggest thing is like something comes to us. We can make decisions based on one of two things, right? We're either making a decision based on faith or based on fear. Like that's it. Like those are the two

things. And obviously, especially in the last year, we've noticed, I think that this has been amplified. Like where did most of us make our decisions? I think that what you'll find is that people traditionally make their decisions one way or the other. Either they make all their decisions towards fear or all of them towards faith. And so that's something to start thinking about personally yourself. That's what I start thinking about. Like when I'm making decisions, am I doing them through fear or through faith? And I feel like people, not a hundred percent, but I think you tend to favor one of these. And it's important because when you start understanding Satan, like how the devil is using these as tools, it starts helping you think like, I got to start

making my decisions differently or else I'm doing what he wants. So I'm going to start on the fear side. So his initial goal is to get people to make decisions based on fear. If he can get that, you become what he calls a drifter. So drifter is somebody who's drifting through life. I want to turn the mic back really quick. I think one of the things I want to just cover here really quick is kind of the premise of how this – like even before we dive into this, like how this came about. Because like in the book, basically Napoleon Hill asks the devil. He's like, hey, listen,, I wanna understand what you as the devil

are doing to try to control people. Because in the book, one of the things that he claims, and I guess you have it up here, the 98%, is that the devil controls 98% of people on the earth by getting them to do drifting, which we'll talk about here in a second, right? And so the whole premise of this book is basically Napoleon Hill is interviewing the devil

and getting the devil to explain how the laws of the universe work, and getting the devil to explain how the laws of the universe work and basically how the devil is using those laws of the universe to pull people towards him. And then he also draws contrast contrast to that of how God uses them to draw people towards God. And so it's like basically understanding like the laws of success, the laws of the universe, how they work. And it's, what is it? The, the secrets of freedom and success. So like, if you understand, he's asking questions with the specific intention of trying to figure out how the world works, how the devil's using those, and then how we can use those things to ultimately have success. If we can figure out how they work,

is that perfect? Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Thank you for adding that. That was, that was awesome. Preframe. And I think that, um, that works. Um, when you understand that, it's like, that is this, that's the war we're in every single day, right? It's like the, I mean, it's every movie right and wrong, good and evil, right? That's the, that's the fight, day, right? It's like the, I mean, it's every movie, right and wrong, good and evil, right? That's the fight, right? And so the devil here is showing, like, this is my playbook. This is how I get people to come to my side. And so his side calls them drifters.

Drifters are people who are drifting through life. They're not ambitious, not doing anything. They're just kind of like there. And when you're a drifter, he controls you. And he said 98% of the population he controls by getting them to drift. And the first thing he does that is by initially, the decision comes to act through faith or act through fear. If you act through fear, you are moving down towards being a drifter. Now, he starts going through like what are the most effective –

so good, so many good things. But so he said, how does he get people to act towards fear? So he's like, these are my six tools. I got six tools. Is the volume good and I yell louder? Okay. These are the six tools, the most effective tools I use, I have to get people to act towards fear.

So the first one is poverty. If you can get them to fear poverty, like, oh, if I do this thing, I could be poor. Then I'm going to be fearful instead of having faith and be like, I don't care if I'm poor, I'm going to go for it, right? So he gets people to fear through poverty, through criticism. How many guys have had a decision to make and you have fear like, oh, what if people criticize me? That's one of his tools, right?

Ill health. Oh, I don't know if I can do that because I'm not healthy enough. Loss of love, old age, and death. So those are the six most effective fears that the devil uses to get you to take fear over faith. And he said, of those six, the two most powerful are poverty and death. If he can get you to be scared of like, I'm going to lose all my money, I'm going to be broke, or oh, if I do that, I might die, or I might not hit those things. Those are his two most powerful tools. So that was really fascinating for me to look to that because I have so many times in my life when I have decisions, I am scared of criticism or I'm scared of, of loss of love or like whatever

those things might be. Right. Entrepreneurship. How many times you try to gamble everything, if you're scared of poverty, right. Then it's like, ah, in fact, I have entrepreneurs all the time. This is like a conversation I have way more often than you would think where they're coming to me and they're like, they built a business at a certain point and they're stuck and they're and they're and they're so scared and the thing that I always have to come back to them is like what's like what's the worst case scenario because they're in a spot where they're so fearful they can't act and they can't make decisions they can't do anything and they just like are frozen and they start shrinking like they're you see them going from like people who are who have the like the presence to be able

to take action do things like these people are stuck and frozen and I literally my conversation I have over and over and things, it's like these people who are stuck and frozen. And I literally, in my conversation, I have over and over and over again, it's like, well, what's the worst case scenario? Because if you're not okay with the worst case scenario with poverty, with death, with these things, you're not okay with those, there's no way you're going to have faith to move forward. You have to break yourself of the worst case scenario. And so I see this in my own life.

I see it in so many entrepreneurs I coach. I see this as the cycle for them getting to fear. So I want everyone to take a personal reflection. Which one of these are you most afraid of? Is it poverty, criticism, ill health, loss of love, old age, or death? I'm actually just going to stand up here because I think it will be easier. And one of the things that he's – so what he's trying to do is he's trying to use one of these six things to get you to become a drifter. Ooh, we just moved the screen.

Like that's the key thing. I'm looking at this camera here. Okay, that's like the key thing that he's trying to get you to do. The devil wants you to become a drifter. Because the opposite of being drifting is, and it's kind of the characteristics of a non-drifter over here, is you have definitive purpose. You have mastery over self. You have learning from adversity, controlling environmental influence, time, positive thoughts over time, and then thinking through plans before you act on them.

So if you have those things, that's the opposite of being a drifter. If he can get you to drift, then you don't have definitive purpose. Then you're not actually going after anything that you're not going to be able to have control over it. And like, then he has control over you. And like, that's the comparison that he keeps drawing in the book, right? It's like, if I had, like, if he can get you to drift, then, then he has control over you. But if you're not a drifter, then guess what? Then he, he doesn't have power over you. And then you're ultimately going to have success and freedom in life. And so like, these guess what? Then he doesn't have power over you. And then you're ultimately gonna have success and freedom in life.

And so like, these are the things that he lays out in the book. And it's like, okay, look, if you choose to be a free thinker, if you choose to be someone who is like, this is what we're all about, like has control over your mind, you're gonna come into this spiritual,

mental and physical freedom category versus the drifter category. Yeah. It's amazing. What's up everybody? This is Russell Brunson. I've got something really cool for you today from my friend, Taylor Wells. And Taylor spoke at our last Funnel Hacking Liveunson. I've got something really cool for you today from my friend Taylor Wells.

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Take this test for yourself and for your team. And I promise you it will change the working dynamics amongst everybody and help your company to grow. And yeah, I think what, like, in fact, I almost called this column here definitive purpose because it's so, in fact, if you read Think and Grow Rich, he talks this whole chapter about definitive purpose. Like, who are the people who say, this is the thing I want, I'm going to go through it, I'm going to have definitive purpose, like, no matter what happens, no matter what obstacles, trials, I'm going to go get the thing. That's definitive purpose, right?

Again, that's a big premise of Think and Grow Rich. And here he comes back to it. And I almost, again, I almost made the title this, but it's not. I think it fits better. It does, but it's not, it's not an opposite. Where this is freedom versus drifting is the opposites. And this is what it actually says in the book. So like if we just summarized it

as one word drifters versus freedom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Spiritual, mental, physical freedom. So it's like, yeah. Cause it's freedom of mind. Like this whole thing is he's trying to control the mind. If you control your mind, he wins. Yeah.

And so, yeah, it's been a defender of purpose. Like that's the, that's the number one characteristic of a non-drifter is definitive purpose, right? So it's like you're coming here, I'm gonna act, and you're like, oh, I got fear, I got fear, what if, what if, what if, they criticize me, oh, and you don't act. Where here, you're like, I have a definitive purpose,

this is my mission, this is the goal, I don't care what happens, I'm gonna go for it, and you just go for it. And that's where you're acting in faith. Like I don't know the path, I don't know where I'm going, but I believe in my skill set, I believe in my mission, I believe in my calling, I'm gonna go, and you start moving

and eventually you show up and you end up over here. Yeah. So anyway, these other ones are all amazing. We can go deeper, but. Yeah, we can go deeper. And I think we can hold this. This is the same thing, right? So we can hold up in there.

And that way we can get kind of back to poor, poor, uh, Brandon's over there. Brandon's over there. Like ruining my mics. Yeah. So one of the things I wanted to dive deep down in on this is specifically on here you have this thing called hypnotic rhythm and like if i were to do this like as an overview it's basically like there's a human and then there's the devil and then there's god like this is

basically how he describes in the book right there's the devil and there's god and there's the human and the human has is going through life and there's the devil pulling for him and there's god pulling for him right and then that person has the choice. It's like the two angels, what devil on your shoulder? Pretty much. Right. And then you have the choice to either choose faith or choose fear, which is why,

like, I mean, one of the things that I've been so adamantly kind of fighting right now is like, don't live in fear. Like why, why is anybody fearful of anything? And like,

I know that's easy for me to say, cause I'm not afraid of death. Right. And that's literally one of the, the top things that he uses to control the mind. Right. And you, you look around the world today and everyone's so afraid of dying.

Who cares? Whatever. I know where I'm going when I die. But that's one of the things that I've been fighting so strongly. So it's like I either have fear and I become a drifter or I have faith and I become someone with definitive purpose and I have freedom ultimately in my life. But there's this thing underneath that is like kind of the core crux of what ultimately keeps us there. And it's like, I actually have notes on it, but it's this thing called hypnotic rhythm. It was interesting. Cause he talks about hypnotic rhythm after he talks about drifters. And he's

like, he's like, my goal is to get them hypnotic rhythm. He says, if you go from, from, uh, from routines to habits, your habits become habitual and they're habitual. They become hypnotic rhythm where you're stuck in this, this cycle. And he says that how you control the drifters. He's like, that's how the universe controls everything. Yeah. Positive and negative. That's why if you look at the bottom here, it's got the little whirlpool at the bottom for hypnotic rhythm, it's the same thing.

So if you have good habits and you're doing things, you get a spot where eventually it's a pattern that you're just stuck in and it's easier to stay in the 2%. If you're in the 98%, it's easier to stay there too. Like hypnotic rhythm serves all things. And that's the thing I think is so interesting about it is the way that he explains it is like the hypnotic rhythm is the thing that keeps the world in harmony. Right. And one of the quotes out of the book that I wrote down is nature, which in this particular case is talking

about nature in the form of hypnotic rhythm. Nature is not interested in morals as such. She is not interested in right or wrong. She is not interested in justice or injustice. She's interested only in forcing everything to express action according to its nature. Right? So when you go into hypnotic rhythm, either positively or negatively, you get into the rhythm of nature. Right? And nature is interested in, if you look at it purely from an objective standpoint, he's saying that nature is only interested in making the thing, the object, in this case you, do what it's been designed to do. So if you're choosing to be

in hypnotic rhythm in the spiritual freedom side of things, like nature's going to keep you in that. And that's why like, it's almost like rewiring your whole brain, your whole life for success. It's like why successful people continue to have success. And it's why non-successful people do not have success. And I think like understanding that and understanding that like hypnotic rhythm is like, it's like, I almost like to think of it as like the subconscious mind, right? Like it's the subject, like once your subconscious mind goes into this hypnotic rhythm to just do the same thing over and over and over again, it's very, very difficult to escape that. Yeah. And you see it happen in your life all the time. Like there's times in my life when I was wrestling where it's like, I had so many routines, so many things that

that structure my life where it was just, it happens on autopilot. Like, cause it was just, that was my, what I did. Right. And so it was perfect. I didn't have to like every day figure out like how am i gonna be successful how am i gonna have defender purpose like it was like it become part of me right yeah and something in business or other parts i think that it's true like we get these these patterns these ruts these things whatever it is either positively or negatively that's the hypnotic rhythm where that's the goal is to get in those but in the positive side not the negative side because you see it's a downward spiral yeah right? Either, or excuse me, an upward spiral positively or downward spiral negatively.

But if you get in that hypnotic rhythm, that's the thing that keeps you in that spot. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. Hey everybody, this is Russell again. And really quick, I just opened up a texting community,

which means you can text me your questions. And right now I'm spending anywhere between 10 and 30 minutes every single day answering questions through text message to people who are on the podcast. And so I wanted you to stop everything you're doing, pull your phone out and actually text me a message. Okay. Now the phone number you need to text is 208-231-3797. Once again, it's 208-231-3797. When you text me, just say hello. And then what's going to happen is they'll add you to my phone and then they'll send you back a message where you can add me to your phone.

And then we can start having conversations on top of that through this texting community. So I'm going to be giving out free swag, giving away free copies of my book, let you know about book signings, about times I'm coming to your local area and a whole bunch more. So I want to make sure you are on this list. On top of that, every single day, I'm sending out my favorite quotes, my favorite frameworks and things you can get for free only through my texting platform. So what you need to do right now is pull out your phone and text me at area code 208-231-3797. One more time. That's 208-231-3797. I can't wait to hear from you right now.