Marketing Secrets with Russell Brunson - The Atlas Shrugged Interview - Part 3 of 5

Episode Date: November 25, 2020

Welcome back to part 3 of this special episode series. Today Russell and Josh try to answer the question, “does everybody need to be an entrepreneur?” They also talk about celebrating other people’s success and how having kids has changed the way they work. So listen in and enjoy part 3 of this very special interview. Hit me up on IG! @russellbrunson Text Me! 208-231-3797 Join my newsletter at marketingsecrets.com ---Transcript--- What's up everybody. This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to Marketing Secrets podcast. We're about to start the third part of our five-part Atlas Shrugged interview series. I hope you guys enjoyed part one and part two. I'm sure there are things that you agreed with, I'm sure there are things you disagreed with, that's okay. This whole thing is not about me trying to force anything on you, it's more just to get us all thinking and open the conversations and help us look at things from both sides. With that said, we're going to move now into the third part of the interview series. Again, we broke down our three and a half hour interview into five podcasts episodes. I know these are long, but I hope you're enjoying them. And hopefully it's just getting the wheels spinning. Hopefully, you're enjoying it. And I really hope that it gives you the desire to go and read the Atlas Shrugged book and kind of see some of these principles through that lens. So, with that said, we'll queue up the theme song. When we get back, you'll have a chance to listen to part three of my interview with Josh Forti. Josh Forti: Okay. I want to circle back to one quick thing and then we can move on. Russell Brunson: Okay. Josh: So the question I was trying to ask was, when you were like, "Hey, there's the technician or there's the plumber, there's this, or there's that or then there's the person that comes in and makes it rain." There's only a few people in an organization that like, make it rain, right? Like you in ClickFunnels, you make it rain. You're the one that brings it in and, I'm sure there's other people to a certain extent, but you are that person. And you probably have what, 100, 200 people on the support team? That don't actually make the company any money, but they do play a critical role in the sense that the company couldn't function without them. And so, to those people there, how does somebody who... Two-part question. One, can you live your best life in a position like that? Can you be most alive and fulfilled and live a great life, doing something average like that? Number two, does that person need to go learn how to make it rain? Does everybody need to be an entrepreneur? Does everybody need to be... Like, you are so fascinating, you got this whole community of funnel hackers and like, "We're going to go out and choose a world. We think differently. We do it differently. We got all this stuff." Would it be good if the whole world thought that way? Or do we need people that don't think that way? Russell: There was a time in life where I thought everyone should think that way. I don't think so now. I have family members who love what they do and they're obsessed with the art, like the art is what they do. Some people... I've had good masseuses and bad masseuses. Some masseuses, that is their art, you can tell, you're just like, "Oh, my gosh. They're the best at their craft." And I think that's okay, I think if it brings fulfillment, that's more important. But people aren't fulfilled, that's the second question. If you're not fulfilled then why, you know? And I think one of the most powerful things, Myron Golden taught this at Funnel Hacking live, and he taught it at two comma club a couple times, he has a thing called the four levels of value. It's so fascinating because… Josh: Such a good one. Russell: Yeah, it's so good. The first level of value, for those who haven't heard this before, is it just talks about I'm going to not do it justice, Martin's the man. One of the greatest speakers of all- Josh: Tell YouTube. Actually I don't even know, if it's on YouTube. Russell: It's on my... Anyway, yes. So bottom level is, people work their hands, right? And this is the hardest work. Like, the person that's actually building the building. Or typing, you're doing support, or whatever the thing is, they're working with their hands. That's the lowest level of value, right? Like the most you make when you're, when you work with your hands is maybe 50, 60, $70,000 a year, but you're tapped out, you can't get higher than that. Now, if that's your calling and you're good at, and you love it, go all in. Become the best in the world at that thing, and that's totally cool. But you cap out on salary, you can't make more money at a certain point. Because that's the value of that tier value. The next tier value, if you move up one tier, is management. Somebody who can manage all of the workers. And there's people... One of the big mistakes we made inside of ClickFunnels, we took the people inside of our team who were the best workers and we upgraded them to management and they were horrible managers, amazing workers moved into management. And they weren't managers, this is a different mindset. They can go learn that, but that's not where they were gifted. And a lot of times it was irreparable, we couldn't move them back down because in their mind, like, "Oh I'm a manager now." It's like, "No." I think one of things we learned is someone can be a worker and make more money than the manager. Just because sometimes their skillset, like the programmers and developers, getting an amazing programmer to code something is, a lot of times, worth more than the managers managing that person. But in most businesses, most organizations, manager's next tier, right? Because you make more money as a manager because you're managing a lot of workers, as opposed to one. Then you go up the next tier value and it's the communicators. People learn how to talk and to sell, that's the next thing. You make more selling and you do managing, and you typically make more managing than you do actually doing the thing. And not everyone's going to be great salespeople. I think it's a teachable skill. I think you may have seen my early videos, everyone thinks this is a gift that I was born with. It is not, it is something that's been developed. Josh: Guys, you should go look at Russell's old videos, they're so embarrassing. Russell: They are the worst ever. Yeah, when I was your age I would not have been able to do this, it's crazy. So that tier is the communicators and the top tier are the visionaries. Imagining it, you're using your brain to make money. So your use your brain, your mouth, your management skills or your hands. Those are the four tiers of value. So I think wherever you fit in there, that's cool, we need people all the tiers, but like... I did a podcast about this the other day, I'm like, "Whatever you going to be, don't just be a person doing it, become the best in the world." We were in Oakville Tony's Event and we're in a hotel and it was kind of weird because there's a spa, so like, all excited to get massages, but it's also COVID right now. So the masseuses have masks on, they have plastic gloves, it was weird. And I got my very first massage, they paid for two massage it. So I was like, "It'll be fun." The first massage was so bad. I was like, "I never want to get a massage again, ever." It was so bad and I'm sitting there on the table, it was only an hour long massage, by the time it was done I was like, "I want to get out of here, this is just weird and horrible." I did not enjoy it. And I'm a massage person. Josh: Yeah. I love massage. Russell: And I was to the point I'd never want massage again, but they'd already booked us for the next day for the second one. And I was annoyed. I went to the second one and same thing. She's got plastic gloves on like we have to do and the mask. And I'm just kind of like, "Oh, I don't even want to be here." And then she puts her hands on me and it's just like, it was art, it was different. And both of them are doing the same job, right? But somebody was like, "I want to be the best the world." Versus, "Oh, I'm just doing the thing." And you see that in every area of life, the chiropractors, there's chiropractors, that are good and there's ones that are great. Doctors, dentists, business. I'm more, wherever you're at, don't just be mediocre, become the best in the world there. That's more important to me than... You know, if you can be a plumber, be the plumber who you walk in... Like we've had, our house, so many plumbers come in. We had some that come and they fix the leak and then something else breaks and they go “uh…” And other guys should come in to check everything, they make sure it's perfect. I want that person, I want the artists I want the person that this is their art and not just like, "Ugh, best job I could find." Josh: Yeah. All right, so now I'm about to ask you a question and I understand this is totally your opinion on it, maybe you have something to base it on. So, the person that is at those lower levels of value, the average worker that's out there, that's doing their thing, especially in today's super soft victim mentality America that wants to vote for free stuff. Makes me so mad. Anyway. The average person that's out there, looks up at people that make a lot of money and the general consensus, I think, or the way that America slash the world is going is, rich people are bad, right? Like, "You're so greedy, man. You got all his money and you're not giving any to me, you get to go sit in your massive house and your cars and you can do whatever you want." And so, even if they are doing what they are called to do, they'll look up to a millionaire, a billionaire, somebody that has all this stuff and they'll look at it as bad. Like that shouldn't happen. How do you create a society? And this is why... I know this is big picture type stuff, but how do you create a society that allows people to be okay with being the best version of themselves where they're at without looking at you and being like, "You're bad."? You know what I mean? Russell: Yeah. Well, it's not going to happen in our lifetime. It's not going to happen, my belief, till Christ comes again. And when he does, it'll be a perfect, you know, things will be great. But until then, it's not going to happen because humans are humans. Right? Josh: You mean Donald Trump's not going to just fix everything? Russell: Oh, if he does that'd be amazing but I'm not holding my breath. But I would say more so just, for anyone who feels that way, I would look at that more... And I did a podcast about this, if you're not someone who celebrates other people's successes, everybody, I don't care if you hate the person, if you're a big fan or you're not a big fan, if you don't celebrate their success, then you are going to struggle to ever be successful because you're going to be so scared of other people not celebrating your success. I remember... I am not a huge Gary Vee fan, you know this, for reasons I'll talk about in my next book. But- Josh: When I tweet this out on Twitter, Gary, when you follow me, shout out, by the way, The Patriots won the Superbowl more than The Jets. Just throw that out there. All right, continue. I just guaranteed he'd never come on my podcast. Russell: I do like Gary, I just, we had a thing, but whatever, he doesn't remember it, I'm sure. But anyway, he got the shoe deal with... Whatever the shoes. Josh: Adidas. Russell: And he's going to market and for half a second, I was like, "That sucks." And then I was like, "You freaking he's in our industry and he got a shoe deal!" And I ran to my computer. Josh: Or K-Swiss, yeah. Russell: The K-Swiss. I bought the shoes. I got them… And I did a podcast, celebrating the fact that someone in our community got a shoe deal and all these things. And most people that I know were like, "I thought you're not a big Gary fan." I'm like, "I'm not, but that's a huge success, we should celebrate success." Because if you don't, then what's going to automatically happen in your head. If you're Not celebrating people's successes then you have the subconscious fear that someone's not going to do yours. And so you're going to stifle yourself and be successful. So I try when anybody around me is having success. Whether I like them or I don't like them, I always am like, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to try to celebrate it." And then by doing that it changes your brain to the spot where you're okay having success, because you're assuming everyone's going to celebrate like you. And they're not going to, but it's different subconsciously. If you are not celebrating other people's successes it will stifle you from ever having your own. And so I think that's a big part of... If that's where you're at right now, it's something you got to change. And when you start making that little shift and start celebrating people's successes above you, it's freeing, it's amazing. Because then all of a sudden you're unlocking yourself, like I can succeed because they did and people are going to celebrate me. And it shifts those like psychological things that you do and it changes everything. It's weird. Josh: Do you think... You're not political, like hardly at all. Like, do you even pay attention? Russell: No, not too much. I was like, so those who read the book, Hank Rearden, and this is part of his demise, is he doesn't pay attention to it at all. So as I read the book, I'm like, Hank Rearden, doesn't pay attention, I don't pay attention. Real quick, can we do a shout out for these shirts again? You guys have seen them? By the way, how many of you guys would like one of these shirts? Josh: Ooh let's make them comment for this first. Russell Brunson: Okay. Josh: Guys, how many of you want to shirt? Yes or no. Comment yes or no down below. Russell: So this is the Rearden Steel one. And this is who is John Galt? One. Josh: Very dope. I'm not going to lie though. Like that was pretty dope, but this one wins for one reason. Russell: The quote is cool. We can put that quote on this one too and make it silver. Josh: Ooh. Ooh. Russell: Okay. This is my selfish pitch. Can I do- Josh: Hey guys, can Russel do a pitch real quick? Russell: Is it okay if I sell something? He says something to you. Keep in mind. I make no money off of this. I don't even know what he's doing. No, we have a little fun site we created just because that'd be fun called TshirtSmackdown.com where we have two shirts and then people vote with their wallets, which shirt they want better. So if you guys want these shirts, you could actually buy whichever one is your favorite, or both if you like them both. Just got to go to TshirtSmackdown.com and they're up there right now. And guess who was the models on TshirtSmackdown? I assume. Are we the models? Anyway, go to TshirtSmackdown.com, you can get one or two- Josh: Oh my gosh. Look at that big your team. Russell: We're super models! Josh: Your team's amazing, dude. They put it together that fast.. Okay. Let's geek out the book here for a second. Russell: Yeah. Josh: The audible door. That, the password that was audible. When I read that I was like, "Yes!" That's a brilliant mind at, it's like you have to say it. And the part that I thought was interesting was, it wasn't just the words he's like, and it's programmed to where it will not open unless the person that is saying it is actually like saying it with conviction or something to that effect. They actually have to like, mean it. Can't just be like, "Duh duh duh duh duh. Okay, I'm in." Like, now you guys want to read the book so bad. Okay. All right. We'll come back to the TshirtSmackdown, comment. down below. Let us know and let us know guys. Let's not go down the comments, if you're listening on audio you can go leave a rating and review and leave us in the comments. But like, if you're just listening, YouTube, Facebook, wherever, comment down below your favorite part of the conversation was so far. I think that'd be super cool. Okay. Let's geek out on the book for a second here. I actually have a lot of questions about the book, but I want to know, what was your favorite scene? Russell: Oh, Oh, so many good scenes. My favorite scene in the book. So it's kind of like the crescendo of the whole book. Because the whole book is asking, who's John Galt. Who's John Galt. Josh: Okay. Hold on. Sorry, David's sitting in the background. Have you read the book, Dave? Okay. So I'm just making sure that you're not just sitting over here, like freaking out. Dave's like I have to read it too. I was like, I need to talk to somebody. Dave, go read this. I'll see you in six months. Russell: So the whole books leader, who's John Galt, who's John Galt. We're kind of introduced to him a little bit when Dagny meets them. And then she leaves and goes back to the real world. And all of a sudden, there's this part where the looters and the government are trying to do this broadcast. And all of a sudden… (static noise) the broadcast is interrupted and they're trying figure how to fix it. But all of the people who would fix it have been taken- Josh: Because all the great minds as society are gone. Russell: And all of a sudden over the loud speaker comes John Galt and he starts the speech. And the speech I think is 80 pages in the book. It's four hours on the audio book, four hours. This is why you don't watch you to movie you by the way. Cause it's less than 30 seconds in the movie. Josh: How do you take out four hours? Russell: Oh, it's such a good... Anyway, he gets on this microphone broadcasting to the entire world, nobody can cut them off. And he gives this speech about… Josh: The entire book. Russell: I’m just freaking out… The set up. It was so crazy, all of a sudden it happened. I was like, "Whoa." And anyway, that was my- Josh: And he ends with this and he goes, and I'll say it one last time “I pledged my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man nor ask another man to live for mine.” Russell: Anyway, that was my favorite part. Josh: The 80 page. Four hour long version of it? Okay. Russell: Oh yeah. So good. Josh: Okay. I like that. My favorite part of the book, I read this and I was like... So, I like play my life on and act like I'm in a movie, right. Sometimes I'm like, do this. So do you remember what the wedding? Russell: Oh, Francisco speech. Dude! Josh: That might've been better. I promised Leah I would be done after this chapter. And it ends, and I'm like, "No!" Russell: The John Galt had a better buildup and then I didn't know it was coming, there's a wedding and everything. And then all of a sudden it starts happening. I was like- Josh: Out of freaking nowhere. Russell: Yeah. So Francisco, he gives a speech that was like, yeah, I wasn't expecting it. So I think it was less buildup, but it was amazing. Yeah. The John Galt buildup was like, this is like, I was waiting when you said movie. Because I was like, "It can be amazing." Then it's like, come on. Anyway. Yeah. Those are the two best parts. Josh: Yeah. Yeah. At that wedding... I'm reading this and it was like that moment I was like, "Okay. She finally made it all..." And that was relatively early on in the book. I was like, Oh, if the book follows anything like this, this is going to be such a good book. Right. Because he gets done with that and you're just... It's something you'd want to watch out in real life and know that somebody thought this up and they wrote down. You're just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was so good. That was, that was hands down my favorite part. Russell: I want to read the book again, I wish it wasn't 1200 pages because I want to go back to experience it but it's so big. Josh: Okay. Have you read the cliff notes version of the book? Russell: No. Josh: Okay. So yeah. So there is there's, I think there's the cliff notes, like the one that you buy. I think it's like a four-hour audio book, I haven't listened to that one. But usually on cliffsnotes.com, can like read the book. You can basically get a summary of the whole book in like, 30 to 45 minutes. I read it. Russell: It's still worth reading though, you guys. Josh: Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. But that's the reason I'm bring it up because I notice 1200 pages, but if you just read the Clifton, but you're like, "Oh, okay. Cool storyline." But you miss the effect of it all. Russell: One of the things that I thought was fascinating. Just because I'm working on my next book, which is not a how-to book, so I'm learning how to write differently. So I've been- Josh: Ooh, you want to tell us all about it? Russell: I'm really proud, excited for it. But one thing was interesting, if you look Ayn Rand did the dialogue in the book, she did all the dialogue, but it's just one person speaking. So it's fascinating. Every time you notice that, like when her partner was in the cafeteria with some guy we didn't know, you only hear his words, you never hear the other side. Josh: That's so true. Russell: Most of her dialogues were just, you heard the one person talking and you could get the gist of the conversation by reading one side, but they never had the other side and I'd never seen someone write that way before. And there's a lot of cool things like that where it's just like... Again, I've written three books now, but I wrote books with Google Docs, with editors and people. Like imagine writing a book in the fifties with a typewriter. Think how much forethought has to go to something like this. Josh: Yeah, that's wild. Russell: It is insane to think that. Yeah. So I have so much respect for people who wrote then. And especially, I'm trying to learn how to write as a story as opposed to how to, and the art of it is just fascinating. As a book, it's worth reading just to see how she wrote is fascinating as well. Josh: What was your biggest... Actually, I want to go down that rabbit hole a little bit further. So writing, is your next book fiction or not? Russell: No, it's just the next book is about bootstrap.com. Bootstrapping is the ClickFunnels story, but it's not like the how-to, it's telling the story as the story, which is going to be cool. Josh: Oh, that's going to be so good. Russell: First thing we're doing is all the core people who've been part of ClickFunnels story. We're flying them out and interviewing them for... I've been mapping out the entire timeline of events as close as I can remember and I'm going to interview... All the pieces from their point of view. Trying to get that from like 50 different people and then take all that stuff, think the timelines up and write the book as a story. So it's a different writing style I've never done before. Josh: That's interesting. Russell: Oh yeah. Dave wants to tell you the cool part. So I'm also like been re-geeking out on The Hero with a Thousand Faces and The Hero's 2 Journeys and all that stuff. Because I want to make sure... Well someday I want to try to sell it to Hollywood or something. So who knows? I don't have the end of the story yet, but like- Josh: Which is by the way, super fascinating because of how the concept concept of going for a target and then going towards it. Like, you don't know the end now you're just like, that is so cool. Russell: Oh yeah, and so it's cool. But I was like- Josh: Russell's so much fun to watch. Russell: So I've been, I've been geeking out on the hero's journey. So I'm like, I'm trying to sync the timeline of the ClickFunnels startup story to the timeline of The Hero with a Thousand Faces, all the core things. To see if I can get it to fit inside that framework, which I think we'll be able to do. it's going to be amazing. Then what I'm trying to do in my new office is I'm going to build the rumors, like a timeline, so the entire room wraps in a huge chalkboard with a timeline that goes around and it has the dates and the years of the journey and stuff. And then writing in each core thing on the wall. And then, you know how in the spy movies, you have like a string that goes and you have the pieces of paper. Josh: Yeah. Russell: As I'm writing the book, I'm going to have the whole thing timed out in a square room. And so you see it all and they can see all the pieces, how they all fit together. And then when the book's done, in that room, that'll be the wallpaper on the room. Josh: Oh my gosh. Okay. All right. So here's deal. Here's a great idea. So you do that up until a certain point, like this is modern day, and then there's an end of the wall. And then from that point to there, that's when you're writing and when you get to the end of the wall you have to sell everything and go into hiding and become John Galt. Like that book's done, I’m out. That's fascinating. Russell: But I get to write a story that's way different. It's not, like all my other books are how-to books so they're written differently. And so it's just been fun- Josh: Which by the way is why when I first got into entrepreneurship I was like, "I don't know why anybody would write a book that's not like that." Like I'm like, "Why would anybody write a book like this? This is so lame." And now I'm reading it and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, this is so cool." Russell: I tend to respect the books I'm reading now, I just finished Shoe Dog, which is the story of- Josh: Oh that's a great book. Russell: American Kingpin, which is the story of the silk road and the dark web, one of my favorite stories I've ever read, I've read it twice already. And the writer is probably the best writers I've ever. I read it and I was so depressed. I was like, I'll never write... Because I tried to hire him to write my book for me. And he's too busy. Josh: I will give you a blank check, just write this book. You're so much better than I could ever dream of. Russell: So I had to go and learn how to do it. Josh: What was the most fascinating thing about Atlas Shrugged, to you? Like, the way it was written or the concepts of the character, anything. What was the overall, the most fascinating part for you? Russell: Character development was so cool. I think the coolest thing for me was... I'd love to see a sim diagram because I don't know it, but each of the characters each played, like they were a character, they played a role that is like this magnified society as a group, almost. Right? Josh: Yeah. That's actually super true. Russell: Like, you have Hank Rearden and Dagny, and then... Josh: James Taggart. Russell: Taggart's wife. All the people, they were humans, but they were personification of a segment of society, which is really cool. And so seeing that where you're getting this micro versions, macro problem. That was cool because I never, again I don't study politics, I'm not deep into it so I don't know all these things. And you hear this character and you hear the story, and all of a sudden you're like, "Oh my gosh, that represents this group of people that I..." And so for me, it was cool because I was able to understand things at a different level. And I'm not the best at this, I always try to put myself in other people's shoes. I try to understand... That's why I'm not super political, because they get so divisive and I see good on both sides. Like, I understand, I can love people on both sides of it. I think it was so cool for me because you see the pros and the cons of each thing. Right? You see the positives, negatives, each belief pattern. Josh: Yeah. Russell: I think Rearden, as much as I related to him, it was like, there's the good and evil, right? And all of them have that. So it was just cool because it gave me this perspective, I didn't know of so many different segments of society. It made this really cool tapestry and picture for me. Josh: Huh. All right. So now the polar opposite. What do you think the book lacked in? Or didn't communicate well or left out? Russell: I think, something we talked about today, I do feel like most of the producers in the book, they didn't have the other side of it. Right? The social stuff is important, helping other people is important and I get why she did it. Like I said, the Phil Donahue interview, she's like, "People should be social. They shouldn't do it with a gun." But she never showed that she, didn't show, Hank Rearden going in like, "Oh, this is a cause I care about like, let me go and..." Josh: At all, in any part. Russell: I think that stuff's important, that's why we talk about political. On the left side, what they're trying to do is good it's right, it's from God, it's so good things. Right? But there's ways that people twist and all sorts of stuff like that. And I wish they would have showed more of that because I felt like the characters were one sided where it's just, the people that are looters and the people that are producers. And I feel like there's more blend for all of us, we have blends of those things. And they did a good job as dissect- Josh: Super, yeah. Russell: You know? I think we all have all those things, I want to give, I want to serve, I want to do things, but I also want to produce, I want to do both those things. like how do I, what's the world look like where we do both of those things. And I don't know how to. In my little universe that I've created for myself and my family, I'm trying to produce. I'm trying to contribute and try and do my version of what I think is right. All we can do is what we think is right in our own little world that we create. And so this is my world I've created, I'm trying my best to do it. And I wish that they would have showed some of that side. But I think that that was a part, I feel, that the characters were missing just that part of it. Josh: So what's interesting- Russell: Christ-like, charity, love stuff. Josh: Okay. Well, and I'm so glad you brought this up, what I think is interesting, the thing that I felt like the book was lacking the most is nobody had kids. Russell: I didn't think about that. Josh: Think about this, none of them... Because one of my questions, she was going to be like, "How Was having a kid?" And I kind of asked her... Kind of changing perspective, but I'm like- Russell: Interesting. Josh: Nobody had kids. And I don't have kids. I'm not married, I don't have kids. I'm getting married. Russell: Yeah, woo hoo! Josh: By the way. Shout out to my beautiful fiance. All right. But for me, I'm so focused right now. So I grew up in a big family, right. Eight kids. I'm the oldest living. I had one other brother who passed away, but like six younger siblings. And like, my whole life changes once there's kids in it. And I know that even though I haven't experienced it, because I've seen it. And so for me, and Leah and I have talked about this like, "The twenties are for us, thirties are for kids." And so I'm like, "I got to make as much money as I possibly can before the because ah!" And I even told Colette this, I said, "If there's there was one thing that I would sacrifice my career for in order to be able to do, it'd be to homeschool my kids." I can't fathom sending my kids to public school, that's just me because I grew up homeschooled or whatnot. But as I was going through the book, I'm like, "I can relate to all of these people, but like they're leaving out like this key component." Imagine being Hank Rearden and living like he did, with your five kids. Or do you have? Russell: I have five. Josh: Yeah, I was going to say, before I was like, "Oh my gosh." So think about that. You know what I mean? And so I feel like one of the, because there's a lot of people I know that I've read Atlas Shrugged, like, "Heck yeah man, this is the greatest book ever, like for-profit blah, blah, blah." And I'm like, "Yeah. But like imagine living your life that way with a family." Imagine living your life like that with the kids and responsibilities, people that you actually like. How- Russell: I think about this. Because like our timeline, it comes back, we talk about growth and contribution. Right? So most of us, we get born. All of us, we get born right. Only way to get here, we're all born. Right? And from when you're born until you're, whatever, for me I got married at 22, I was 22. And so it's like the first 21 years, it's all about you. Right? It's selfish, it's growth. It's whatever it is, it's you, you, you. And everyone's very inward focused. And then all of a sudden you meet this beautiful person and then you fall in love, that's amazing. And also what happens is it shifts from you, you, you, to us. And you're giving, taking, giving taking, and it's cool because, all of a sudden all your focus isn't on you, it's on somebody else. But they're focused on you too and it's this amazing thing where like, I'm giving, but I'm also getting, it's this amazing thing. It's this transition that's easing you into kids because then kids come out and it flips now where it's like the opposite where you're just serving a hundred percent, especially the very beginning with kids. I was joking my kids about this one night when they're like, "Why are you guys so mean?" And I'm like, "Do you realize we get no value from this. We don't get paid a penny from this, there's nothing in parenting. We kill ourselves, we serve, we don't sleep. We work. We hate money." And that's not true, there's value. Josh: I'm just sitting here imagine Russel telling his kids, "We get no value, you do not pay us." Russell: I'm like, I'm killing myself. Josh: To be fair, you do get a tax break. Russell: Yeah. But especially when they're first born, they're cute and you get lots but they're in the selfish space now where you're giving a hundred percent and they're not giving back. Other than they giggle and cute and you're like, "Oh, so cute." But for the most part, you get this time where you're selfish and then it's like, "Oh, I'm serving someone else, but they're serving me." And amazing, then all of a sudden it's a hundred percent service there. And I think that that's a good point. Hank Rearden had only done this thing. And then, he never had a chance to like, a hundred percent serve somebody else and see what that's like. Because the value you get as a parent is when you serve a hundred percent of kids and you see like who they become, that's the value. But it doesn't come from the quid pro quo that you normally get with like, "I'm going to buy this thing or pay for this thing." Josh: Right. Russell: It's like, "I'm gonna serve, and serve, and serve." And eventually hope that someday they turn out to be cool. Josh: Yeah. And that's a super interesting point. And maybe that's why she left that part out of it because she was like, "None of these people would ever have kids-" Russell: And she didn't have kids, so that's a big… that might be the part, she's never seen that. At least not that I'm aware of, I'm pretty sure- Josh: That's crazy. Because going through I'm like, "This book I think would mean so much diff..." So when I first read it, like I said, whenever I first learned about this, back in high school, right. I read it. I hated reading. I publicly declared, and it's actually funny. When I graduated high school, I bought myself a pickup truck, I stood on the top of the pickup truck and I publicly declared to the world, I would never read another book ever again in life. I hated reading. So that's funny because now I'm reading 1200 page books and I've read every one of those books back there. It didn't really take on the same effect as now, being an entrepreneur, being someone at... Like at one point I had five employees and I'm 26 years old. So now I'm reading it and I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." But if I read it with kids, I feel like that would even give you a completely different perspective on like... How has having kids changed your... Because you're an entrepreneur basically from day one, right? You never really had a job. Right? Russell: I've served tables and stuff, I didn't have a job more than three months. Josh: Okay. So you're, you're a failure in the normal society, right? You can't hold a job, you get fired for... But how's having kids and having to balance... Because man, like, dude, you're running a... ClickFunnels is a billion dollar company. Right? We're allowed to say that? Like that's a thing, right? Like roughly, I'm not off on that. All right. Russell: The value is based what you will pay for so hopefully somebody pays that some day. Josh: So we're going to say a billion dollar company. So you're running this billion dollar company, you've made hundreds of millions of dollars, you've been payed a million dollars an hour from stage before... By the way, big props, congratulations. How has balancing work now with that, with the kids growing up, I feel like now they're at, because you're oldest is what, 12, 14 or 15. Right? So how has that changed the way that you view your work? Do you struggle with that? Like the balance. Russell: Yeah. Especially now with COVID stuff happening. Kids being homeschooled. Because before it was easy to separate because they're going to school, I'm going to here. Separation is easy. Now it's harder because it's they're still home. And it's like, "Oh, should I be there?" It's definitely tough. Yeah. It's interesting. I have so many entrepreneur friends, I always tease them because it's like, who don't have any kids and they're doing amazing things. I'm like, "Yeah. But I'm doing this stuff and I got five kids and a beautiful wife and I got callings in my church." And there's so many things. I hired a trainer, Dave knows a safe trainer. I remember when he started working with us, he said the biggest thing he knows me start working with me is that you'll be shocked what your body can actually endure. I think that most people don't understand what they could actually do. How do you run a company this big and have a family and have a successful marriage and have these... You can do it, and most people don't because they sedate. And like, I don't watch four hours of football a night because I have all these other things. Right. I don't know, it's just you take away the excuse of sedation you can produce so much more than people are able to understand. I don't know. So it's interesting. And then it's been such a weird thing too, with kids, because I think when you first start having kids, you assume they're all going to be like you. Like, "Oh, they're all going to be entrepreneurs." And then I had twins, it was crazy, our first two that came out are twins. Now they're 14, almost 15. It's crazy because I assumed they'd all be the same, the same as me or the same together. And they are so polar opposites. Josh: Yeah, I didn't even know, I just found out today that they were twins. I had no clue. Colette's like, "Yeah they're both turning 15." I'm like, "Wait, what?" Russell: Yeah. They don’t look like each other, they don’t act like each other. One's more entrepreneurial. One's more, if you look at disc profile, I have a DI and we have an SC. Josh: Oh my God. Russell: Introvert, extrovert. All the things are different. And I always thought, you know, my kids are going to be entrepreneurs like me and now I don't think they have to be. It goes back to what we talked about earlier. With my kids, I'm like, "What do you want to do?" And I think some of my kids are very entrepreneurial, a lot of them aren't. I think some of my kids are super smart, hard workers who are going to be amazing at the roles they play in something, they're going to be a huge part of changing somebody's world, but it's not going to be the front person of it. And so it's been interesting watching that and fulfilling and hard and it's all the things wrapped into one. It's an interesting experience, you're going to love it. You should start having kids right away. Josh: Yeah. That's not going to happen. But why though? Russell: Because you should know, it takes time. Josh: Okay. But how long did you go? How long did you wait? Russell: Uh, two? Let's see, we had our 18 year anniversary, the kids are turning 15. So almost three years. We tried earlier, but we had fertility drugs, stuff like that and everything, But yeah, so about probably two years and when started trying. Josh: Yeah. I can't... Kids scare me dude. But it's interesting because like I grew up with six younger siblings. So I was definitely old enough to remember the whole diaper phase and like, you know... Obviously I wasn't a parent with it. And the church that I went to, eight was like average to small amount of kids. A lot of them were like 13 kids, 12 kids, 14 kids, whatever. I think the smallest in our whole church was four, and they were the weird ones. Russell: "You only have four kids? What's wrong with you?" Josh: Right. And so everywhere we went, that's just what it was. So for me, I had that rebellion phase, if you will. I don't want to call it rebellion phase, but where I was like, "I don't want any of this. Why would you... They're expensive and they suck all the time. And I can't go do this." I'm like, "I want to be so filthy read before I go having kids." And I taught Sunday school and was very involved in the church growing up and things like that. So for me it was like, "I want to go build my business, doing that is more fun." The interesting thing about kids. And I told my parents this, I don't remember when it was, but my parents aren't super wealthy or successful when it comes to business or anything like that. But I look at my parents as some of the most successful people that I've ever met in my life, because my mom's favorite... There's little things that my mom told me over and over and over again. And one of her famous lines is, "The only thing I need to know in life is I just need to know that my children walk in truth." Right. And my mom, particularly, and my dad too, like both of them, but I relate it with my mom, cause she'd keep saying it, it's like my mom's definition of success and achievement was, "Do my children walk in truth?" That is what was success to her. And she's like, "Yeah, money would have been great, like all these different things." But that was kind of the pinnacle of success for her is, do my kids walk in truth. And so as I have gone through my own journey of faith, which has been, I mean, it has been rough at times, right? I've watched her struggle with it and freak out because she's like, "I just want..." But that's not her journey to bear, but it is at the same time. And so it's always been interesting, kids are this thing where I feel like once I have them, obviously I'm there for the rest of my life, but I feel like there's this stress or there's this new piece of my life that's unlocked that I've never explored before. I don't know anything about it. And I'm like, afraid isn't the right word, but I'm pushing that off as long as I possibly can because once that's opened then I never get to close it again. And that mystery is almost fun to like look forward to, but at the same time, I get to focus over here. Russell: Essentially I remember thinking about this a lot, especially for the first two years. I was like, "his is so much harder than I thought it was going to be." Flat out, way harder. But also remember feeling and thinking out loud, "This is so much cooler than I ever dreamt it was going to be." Like this double-edged sword. And I was like, "Man, I didn't realize how tired and worn out." And all these things. But then so much better than I thought. It's funny. Cause I had a lot of friends who are like, “well, I want to make money, and then I’ll have kids”. I don't think, I don't know. It's different. I would just have kids, you can do both. It's not impossible. Especially when they're first born, they just sit there. I would spend a year or two and just not- Josh: Right, right, right. Russell: But I wouldn't wait until like, "Oh, I need a million bucks in the bank." I get people all the time, I know people that are broke, that have eight kids. They're not that expensive. Like, Cheerios are not that expensive, if you need to. It's just being willing to be there and be loving and be being present for as much as you can. Another thing that's been interesting, especially now that our kids are going to be teenagers, it's like so much harder. That's harder. Josh: Really that's harder than when they're young. Russell: Oh, for sure. Yeah. Josh: Dave's over here just laughing. Russell: It's different- Josh: Oh gosh. What am I in for Dave? Oh no. Russell: Yeah. The young part is like, "I'm tired." That's a hard part when they're young. When they're older, it's just like, am I messing these kids up, I just want them to be successful. That's the bigger fear. I remember a little thing that gave me some grace, Tom Bilyeu, I heard of this Instagram post about him talking about being a parent, and it was so funny because he's like, "Who here is scared that you're going to eff up your kids?" That was how he would have said it. Josh: Right, yeah. Russell: I would say “mess up”. Who's gonna mess up your kids. And everyone's hands like, "Yeah. I'm scared." He's like, "Guess what?..." I got to make sure I gets right. He's like, "My parents messed me up. You're going to mess your kids up. But guess what? We turned out okay in the end. Just be okay with the fact that you're going to mess your kids up because you are." And I remember, I was like, "Okay, everyone messed up their kids, that's part of it." That's part of the whole journey, that's the journey. And it gave me some grace of just like, "Look, I'm going to do my best. I'm probably going to mess them up." But at the same time you have to have faith, they're going to do their thing and they're going to hopefully make the decisions. And if not, that's why we have God. That's why we have repentance. And just in the kind of leaving it to leave it to him and do your best. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up everybody, this is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to Marketing Secrets Podcast. We are about to start the third part of our five-part Atlas Drugged interview series. I hope you guys enjoyed part one and part two. I'm sure there are things that you agreed with. I'm sure there's things you disagreed with, and that's okay. This whole thing's not about me trying to force anything

on you, it's more just to get us all thinking and open up conversations and help us look at things from both sides. With that said, uh, we're going to move now into the third part of the interview series. Again, we broke down our three and a half hour interview into five podcast episodes. So I know these are long, but I hope you're enjoying them and hopefully it's just getting the wheels spinning. Hopefully you're enjoying it. And, uh, I really hope that gives you the, um, the desire to go and read the

Atlas Shrugged book, um book and kind of see some of these principles through that lens. So with that said, we'll keep the theme song. When we get back, we'll introduce you or you have a chance to listen to part three of my interview with Josh Forte. So the big question is this, how are entrepreneurs like us who didn't cheat and take on venture capital, we're spending money from our own pockets. How do we market in a way

that lets us get our products and our services and the things that we believe in out to the world and yet still remain profitable? That is the question and this podcast will give you the answer. My name is Russell Brunson and welcome to Marketing Secrets. Okay, I want to circle back to one quick thing and then we can move on okay so the question i was trying to ask was like when you were like hey there's the technician or there's the plumber there's this or that or then there's the person that comes in and makes it rain right like there's only a few people in an organization like make it rain right like you in clickfunnels like you make it rain like you're the one that like brings it in and i'm sure there's other people like to a certain extent but like you are that person and there's

probably what you probably have what 100 200 people on the support team that don't actually make the company any money but they do play a critical role in the sense like the company couldn't function without them right and so like to those people there how does somebody who like two-part question one can you live your best life in a position like that? Like, could you be most alive and fulfilled and like, like live a great life doing something average like that? And number two, like, does that person need to go learn how to make it rain? Like, does everybody need to be an entrepreneur? Does everybody need to be like, you are so fast and you got this whole community of funnel hackers and like, we're gonna go out

and change the world. And like, we don't get, we think differently. We do it differently with all this stuff. Like, does it would it be good if the whole world thought that way? Or like, do we need people that don't think that way? There's a time in life where I thought everyone should think that way. I don't think so now. I think some people are like, I have family members who love what they do and they're obsessed with the art. Like the art is what they do. Like some people, like some, like,

I've had good masseuses and bad masseuses. Some masseuses, like their art you can tell you're like oh my gosh like they're the best at their their craft um and i think that's okay i think what if it brings fulfillment like that's more important um but if people aren't fulfilled that's that's the second question is like well if you're not fulfilled then why like you know and um i think one of the most powerful things myron golden Golden taught us Funnel Hacking Live, and he taught it two, a couple of times. He has this thing called the four levels of value. And it's so fascinating because- That's such a good-

Yeah. So the first level of value, for those who haven't heard this before, is, and it talks about, and I'm going to not do it justice, like Myron's a man. One of the greatest speakers of all time. Go YouTube. Actually, I don't even know if it's on YouTube. Anyway, yes. But so bottom level is people work with their hands right and this is the hardest work like someone building building

persons like actually building the building or typing you're doing support or like whatever the thing is like they're working with their hands like that's the lowest level value right like the most you make when you're when you work the hands is maybe 50 60 70 000 you're like you're tapped out you can't get higher than that now excuse me that's your calling and you're good at you love it like go all in like become the best in the world, that thing. And that's totally cool. But you're not, but like you cap out on salary. You can't make more money at a certain point. Cause that's the value of, of the, that's your value. The next year value. Then if you move up one tier is management, right? Someone who can manage all of the workers, right? And there's people who like

one of the big mistakes we made inside of ClickFunnels. We took the people inside of our team who are the best workers and we upgraded them out into management and they were horrible managers amazing workers moved to the management management they weren't managers like this different mindset and so it's like they can go learn that but i thought where they were that's not where they were gifted right and a lot of times it was irreparable we couldn't move them back down because in their mind like oh i'm a manager now it's like no i think you know one of the things we learned is like someone can work that be a worker and make more money than the manager right because just because sometimes their skill set like like a programmers and

developers like getting an amazing programmer to to code something is a lot of times worth more than the managers managing that person but in most businesses most organizations managers next tier right because you make more money as a manager because you manage a lot of excuse me a lot of workers as opposed to one then you go up the next tier value it's like the communicators right people learn how to talk and to sell like that's the next thing you make more selling and you managing and you typically make more managing than you actually doing the thing and not everyone's going to be great sales people like i think it's a it's a teachable skill i think you may have seen my early videos like anyone thinks this is a gift that I was born with, it is not.

It is something that has been developed. Guys, you should go look at Russell's old videos. They are so amazing. They are the worst ever. Yeah, when I was your age, I would not have been able to do this. Like, it's crazy. And so that tier is the communicators, and the top tier are the visionaries. Like, imagining, like, you're using your brain to make money.

So you're using your brain, your mouth, your management skills, or your hands. Like, those are the four tiers of value. And so i think wherever you fit in there it's like that's cool like we need people all the tears but like i did a podcast about this the other day i'm like um if you're gonna be whatever you're gonna be at like don't just be a person doing it become the best of the world um like we were in uh oaksville catoni's event and uh we're in hotel and it's kind of weird because there's a spa so i'm all excited to get massages but it's also covid right now so like the masseuses have masks on they have plastic gloves it was like it was weird i got my very first massage we sent they uh they paid for some massage with two massages so i was like it'll be fun first massage was so bad i was like i

never want to get massaged again ever like it was just it was so bad and i'm sitting there on the table it was only an hour long massage by time it's not like i want to get out of here like this is just weird and horrible i did not enjoy it and i'm a massage person yeah i love massage yeah and i was like the point like i'd never want to massage again but they'd already booked us for the next day for the second one and i was annoyed i went to the second one and same thing she's got plastic gloves on that we have to do with a mask and it's kind of like i don't want to be here and then she puts your hands on me and it's just like it was art like it was different and i was like both of them are doing the same job right but somebody's like i want to be the best in the world versus like i'm just

doing the thing you see it in every every area of life you look at chiropractors there's chiropractors the good and there's ones that are great doctors like dentists business like like i'm i'm more of like wherever you're at like like don't just be mediocre like become the best in the world there that's more important to me than you know if you're gonna be a plumber be the plumber who you walk in like we've had our house so many plumbers coming we had some to come and they fix the leak and then some of those breaks and they go and other guys come in they check everything making sure it's perfect it's like i would rather like i want that person what the artist want the person like this is their art not just like best job i could find like yeah anyway all right so now i'm about to ask you a

question and i understand this is totally like your opinion on it. There's nothing, but maybe, maybe you have something to base it on. So like the person that is at those lower levels of value, right. The average worker that's out there that's doing their thing, especially in today's super soft victim mentality, America that wants to vote for free stuff makes me so mad anyway so like the average person like that's out there looks up at people that make a lot of money

and like kind of the general consensus i think or the way that america slash the world is going is like rich people are bad right like like you're you're so greedy man like you got all this money and like you're not giving any to me and like you got all this money and like you're not giving any to me and like you get to go sit in your massive house and your cars and you can do whatever you want and so like even if they are doing what they are called to do like they'll look up at to a millionaire a billionaire like someone has like all this stuff and they'll like they'll look at it as bad like that shouldn't happen like how do you create a society and this is why like i know this is a big picture like type stuff but like how do you create a society and this is why like i know this big picture like type stuff like how do you create a society that allows people to like be okay with being the best

version of themselves like where they're at without like looking at you and being like you're bad like you know i mean yeah well it's not gonna happen in our lifetime it's not gonna happen my belief till christ comes again and we when he does it'll be a perfect you know things would be great but until then it's not gonna happen because humans are humans right um you mean you mean donald trump's not gonna just fix everything oh if he does that'd be amazing but i'm not holding my breath um but i would say more so just for anyone who feels that way like i would look at that more and i did did a podcast about this. Like, um, if you're not someone who celebrates other people's successes, um,

everybody, I don't care if you hate the person, if you're a big fan or you're not a big fan, like if you don't celebrate their success, um, then you are going to struggle to ever be successful. Cause you're going to be so scared of other people, not sobering your success.

I remember I'm not, I am not a huge Gary Vee fan. You know this. Yeah. Um, for reasons I'll talk about in my next book. But, so when I, when I tweet this out on Twitter, Gary, when you're following me, shout out, but by the way, the Patriots won the Superbowl and the jets,

just throw that out there. All right, continue. I just guaranteed you'd never come on. I do. I do like Gary. I just, we had any way to think, but whatever. He doesn't remember it. I'm sure. But anyway, he got the shoe deal with whatever. Yeah, Adidas. And he's in our market. And like for a half a second, I was like, oh, that sucks. And then I was like, he freaking, he's in our industry.

He got a shoe deal. And I ran to my computer. The case was I bought the shoes. I got them. I was like, I did a podcast, like celebrating the fact that some of our community got a shoe deal and all these things. And a bunch of people that I know, right. I thought like, you did a podcast, like celebrating the fact that some of our community got a shoe deal and all these things. And a bunch of people that I know, right. I thought like, you're not a big Gary fan. I'm like, I'm not, but like, that's a huge success.

Like we should celebrate success because if you don't, then what's going to automatically happen in your head, if you're not celebrating people's successes, you have the subconscious fear that someone's not going to do yours. And so you're going to, you're going to stifle yourself from being successful. So I try when anybody around me is having success, whether I like them or I don't like them, like I always am like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to try to be yours. And so you're going to, you're going to stifle yourself from being successful. So I try when anybody around me is having success, whether I like them or I don't like them, like I always am like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to try to celebrate it. And then by doing that, like it, it, it changes your brain to the spot where, um, you're okay having success because you're assuming everyone's going to celebrate like you and they're not going to. Um, but it,

I don't know, it's different. Um, subconsciously you are not celebrating other people's successes. Um, it'll stifle you from ever having your own and so i think that's a big part of it like if if that's where you're at right now like it's something you got to change and we start making that little shift and start celebrating people's successes above you um it it's freeing it's it's amazing because then it's also like unlocking yourself like i can succeed because they did and and people are going to celebrate me and like it just it shifts those like psychological things that you do in it. It changed everything. It's weird.

Do you think, you're not political, like hardly at all. Like, do you even pay attention? No, no, not too much. Like, I was like, I was like, hey, so those who read the book, Hank Reardon, he like, and this is part of his demise is he never, he doesn't pay attention to it at all. So as I read the book, I'm like, Hank Reardon doesn't pay attention and this is part of his demise. He never, he doesn't pay attention to it at all. So as I'm reading the book, I'm like, Hank Reardon doesn't pay attention.

I don't pay attention. Like, and real quick, we do shout out for these shirts again. You guys seen them? By the way, how many of you guys would like one of these shirts? Ooh, let's make them comment for this first. Okay.

Guys, how many of you want a shirt? Yes or no? Comment yes or no down below. So this is the Reardon Steel one. And this is the, who is John Gall one? Pretty dope. I'm not going to lie though. Like that one's pretty dope, but this one wins for one and this is who is john gall one pretty dope i'm not gonna lie though like that one's pretty dope but this one wins for one reason like the quote is cool we could put

that quote on this one too and make it silver oh okay this is my selfish pitch okay yeah can ross look hey guys can i do a pitch real quick you guys okay if i sell something can he sell something to you keep in mind i i make no money off this i don't i don't even know what he's doing no we have a little fun site we created just because it would be fun called T-ShirtSnackDown.com where we have two shirts and then people vote with their walls on which shirt they want better. So if you guys want these shirts, you can actually buy whichever one is your favorite or both. If you like them both, you just got to go to T-ShirtSnackDown.com and they're up there right now. And guess who is the models on T-Shirt SmackDown?

I assume. Are we the models? Anyway, you go to T-ShirtSnackDown.com can get uh you can get one or two oh my gosh look at that your team's amazing dude they put it together like that fast okay let's geek out on the book here for a second okay the audible door related to the password that was audible when i read that i was like yes that's like a brilliant mind at work right it's like you have to say it and the part that i thought was interesting was he it wasn't just the words he's like and it's it's programmed to where it will not open unless like the person that is saying it like is actually like saying it with

conviction or like something that effect like they actually have to like mean it yeah you can't just be like okay come on man like it now you guys want to read the book so bad you want okay all right let's we'll come back to the t-shirt smackdown comment down below let us know uh and let us know guys let us know down in the comments and if you're listening on audio you can like go leave a rating and review and like leave us in the comments but like if you're listening youtube facebook wherever like comment down below where the best part of your favorite part of the conversation was so far i think that'd be super cool okay let's get out of the book for a second here i actually have a lot of questions about the book, but I want to know like, what was like your favorite scene? Oh, oh, so many good scenes. Um, my favorite scene in the book. So it's kind of like the crescendo

of the whole book. Cause the whole book, that's in who's John Gall. Who's John Gall. Okay. Hold on. Sorry. Dave, Dave is sitting here in the background. Have you read the book, Dave? Okay. So I'm just making sure you're making sure that you're like, you're not just sitting over here. Like I was freaking out. Dave's like, I have to read it too. I was like, I need to talk to somebody. Dave, go read this. I'll in six months okay favorite book so the whole book's linked who's john gall who's john gall we kind of introduced him a little bit when dagny meets him and then she leaves and goes back to the real world and all of a sudden there's this part where the looters and the government are trying to like do this broadcast and all of a sudden the broadcast

is interrupted and they're trying to figure out how to fix it but all the people who would fix it have been taken like they're like because all the great minds of society are gone and all of a sudden like over the loudspeaker comes john gall and he starts the speech and the speech i think is 80 pages in the book it's so it's like it's four hours it's four hours on the audiobook four hours this is why you don't watch the movie by the way because it's less than 30 seconds in the movie. Like, how do you take out four hours? Like, it's such a good. Anyway, he gets on his microphone broadcasting the entire world. Nobody can cut him off.

And he gives this speech about big. The whole book. I'm just like freaking out. The setup was so crazy. Also, it happens. I was like, oh. And anyway, that was my. And he ends with this.

Yeah. And he goes, and I'll say it like one last time. I pledge my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man nor ask another man to live for mine. Anyway, that was my favorite part. The 80-page, four-hour long version of it. Okay. Oh, yeah.

So good. Okay, I like that. My favorite part of the book. I read this. I was like... So I like play my life out and act like I'm in a movie, right? Sometimes I'm like, do this. So do and like, act like I'm in a movie. Right. Sometimes I'm like this. So do you remember at the wedding?

Oh, Francisco speech. Oh yes. That might've been better. I get done with that chapter. And I'm like, I promised Leah, I would be done after this chapter. And like, it ends. And I'm like, I remember. Yeah. I do think – so the John Galt had a better build-up.

And then like – I didn't know it was coming. Like there's wedding and everything. And then all of a sudden it starts happening. I was like – Out of freaking nowhere. Yeah, so Francon – Francisco Deaconia. Yeah, Francisco Deaconia.

He gives a speech that was like – yeah, I wasn't expecting it. So I think it was less build-up, but it was amazing. Yeah. The John Galt build-up was like – this is is like i was waiting to see that movie because i was like amazing then it's like come on like come on anyway yeah those are the two best parts yeah yeah at that wedding like i'm reading this and i'm like that was when like it was like that that moment i was like okay she she finally like made it all, and it was relatively early on in the book. I was like, oh, if the book follows anything like this, this is going to be such a good book, right?

Because, like, he gets done with that, and, like, you're just – it's, like, something you'd want to, like, watch out in real life. And, you know, if somebody thought this up and, like, wrote it down, you're just like – Yeah. So good. Yeah. Yeah. That was so good. That was hands down my favorite part.

Why don't I read the book again? I wish it wasn't 1,200 pages because, like, I want to go back and experience it, but it's so big. Okay. What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. I've got something really cool for you today from my friend Taylor Wells. Taylor spoke at our last Funnel Hacking Live because I wanted him to share a really cool concept about what he calls the revolving pricing method. And today he decided to sponsor the podcast to give you guys more access to this super cool strategy that you are going to love.

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Take this test for yourself and for your team, and I promise you it will change the working dynamics amongst everybody and help your company to grow. Have you read the Cliff Notes version of the book? No. Okay. Maybe that's what you got to do. Yeah. So there is – I think there's the Cliff Notes, the one that you buy. I think it's like a four-hour audio book.

I haven't listened to that one. But if you just go to CliffNotes.com and read the book, you can basically get a summary of the whole book in like 30 to 45 minutes. I read it. It's still worth reading though, you guys. Oh, 100%. It's just worth reading though you guys oh oh 100 100 but and actually that's the reason i bring it up because like i know it's 100 pages but like you don't like if you just read the cliff and you're like oh okay like cool storyline but like you miss the effect like the the oomph of it all one of the things that i thought was fascinating this is because like i'm working on my next book which

is like i'm it's not a how-to book so i'm learning how to write differently so i've been you want to tell us all about it i'm really proud i'm excited for it um but one thing was interesting like if you look at how ayan ran to the dialogue in the book she did all the dialogue was just one person speaking so it's fascinating every time you notice that like when um when uh her partner was in the cafeteria with some guy we didn't know, you only hear his words. You never hear the other side. Oh, that's so true. Most of her dialogues were just you heard the one person talking.

And you could get the gist of the conversation by reading one side, but they'd never had the other side. And I'd never seen someone write that way before. And there's a lot of cool things like that where it's just like people. And, like, again, I've written three books now. But, like, I wrote books with Google Docs, with editors and people. Like, imagine writing a book in the 50s with a typewriter. I think how much pre-forth thought has to go to something like this that's wild like it is insane to think that yeah so like i have so much respect for people who wrote then and especially i'm trying to learn how to write uh as a story as opposed to how to and it's like the art of it is is just

it's fascinating and anyway as as a book it's just like it's worth reading just like to see how she wrote it's fascinating as well. What was your like biggest, actually, I want to go down that rabbit hole a little bit further. So like writing and is your new, like is your next book fiction or not? Uh, no,

it's, it's just the next book is, uh, I bought bootstrap.com. So it's bootstrapping. It's the click funnel story. It's not like the how to, it's telling the story,

um, as the story, uh, which is going to be cool. Oh, that's going to be so good. The first thing we're doing is all the core people who have been part of the ClickFunnels story are flying them out and interviewing them. I've been mapping out the entire timeline of events as close as I can remember and interviewing all the pieces from their point of view. I'm trying to get that from like 50 different people, and then I'm going to take all that stuff, sync the timelines up, and write the book as a story.

Anyway, so it's a different writing style i've never done before that's interesting uh because oh yeah dave wants to tell you the cool part so i'm also like uh been re-geeking out on like here with a thousand faces and the hero's two journeys and like all that stuff i want to make sure well someday i want to try to sell to hollywood or something so who knows i don't have the end of the story yet but like but so which is by the way super fascinating because like the concept of like going for a target and then like going towards it like you don't know the end now you're just like yeah it's so cool it's cool but i was like russell's so much fun to watch

so like i'm writing i didn't so i've been i've been geeking out on the hero's journey so i'm like i'm trying to sync the timeline of the click funnel startup story to the timeline of the hero a thousand faces like to all the core the core things to see if i can get it to fit inside that framework which i think we'll be able to do that way it yeah it's gonna be amazing and then uh what i'm trying to do in my new office is um i'm gonna build the room where it's like a timeline so the entire room wraps in a huge uh like uh like a chalkboard with like a timeline that goes around has like the dates and here's dirty stuff right and then like you know you're like writing in each each core thing on the on

the wall and then you know like the you in the spy movies where you have like the string that goes you have the pieces of paper yeah so like as i'm writing the book i want to have the whole thing timed out in a square room and so you see it all and they can see all the pieces how they all fit together and then that'll when the book's done in that room that'll be the wallpaper on the room forever oh my gosh

okay all right so here's here's a great idea so like you do that up until like a certain point like this is modern day and then there's like an end of the wall

and then like from that point to there that's when you're writing when you get to the end of the wall you have to sell everything and go into hiding and become John Galt like that book's done

I mean there we go that's fascinating anyway so when they get to write a story that's way different it's not You have to sell everything and go into hiding and become done goal. Like that looks done. I mean, there we go. That's fascinating. But I get to write, try to story. That's way different. It's not like a, all my other books are how to books.

So it's like, they're written differently. And so it's just been fun. Which by the way is why I, I was like, when I like first got into entrepreneurship, I was like, I don't know why anybody would write a book. That's not like that.

Like, I'm like, what, why would anybody write a book like this? This is so lame. And now I'm like reading it. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's so it's so cool yeah i have a ton of respect like the books i'm reading right now like i just finished shoe dog which is like the story oh that's a great book uh american kingpin which is like the story of the silk road the dark web my favorite stories i've ever read twice already and the writer is probably the best

writers i've ever i gave i read it i was so depressed. I was like, I'll never write as busy. I tried to hire him to write my book for me, but he's too busy. I will give you a blank check. Just write this book. You're so much better than I could ever dream of. So I had to go learn how to do it. What was your most – like what was the most fascinating thing about Atlas Drugged to you? Like the way it was written or the concepts or the characters, like anything.

What was the overall like the most fascinating part for you? Man, the character development was so cool um i think i think the cool thing for me um was like each and i i would love to see some diagrams i don't know but each of the characters each played like they're a character, but they played a role that is like this magnified society as like a group almost. Right. Like, yeah,

that's actually super true. And Dagny. And then like, um, James Taggart, my taggart's wife. Yeah. Like all the people,

they were like, they were, they were humans, but they were personification of like a segment of, of society, which was really cool. And so it was like seeing that where you're just like, you're personification of like a segment of, of society, which was really cool. And so it was like seeing that where you're just like, you're getting this, like this micro versions, macro problem. Um, that was cool because like, I'd never, again, I don't study politics.

I don't, I'm not deep into it. So I don't know all these things. And like, you'd be, you hear this character and you hear the story and I'll see like, oh my gosh, that represents this group of people that I, and so for me, it was cool. Cause I was able to understand, um, things at a different level. And I, I'm not the best at this, but I always try to like put myself in other people's shoes. I try to understand like, like that's what I'm not super political.

Cause they get so divisive. And I'm like, I see good on both sides. Like I understand, like I can love people on both sides of it. I think it was so cool for me. Cause I was able to like, you see the pros and cons of each thing,

right? You see the positive negatives of each belief pattern, right? As much as I related to him, it it's like there's the good and evil right yeah there's good like all of them have that so like it was just cool because it gave me this perspective i didn't know of so many different segments of society made this really cool tapestry and picture for me huh all right so now the polar opposite like what do you think the book lacked in or like like didn't communicate well or like left out um i think something to talk about today like i do feel like um most of

the producers in the book um they didn't have the other side of it right like the social stuff is important like helping other people is important um i get why she didn't like i said the phil donahue interview she's like people should be social they shouldn't do with the gun we should ever show that she didn't show hey career and going and like oh this is the cause i care about like let me go and at all you know in any part and i think that stuff's important like that's why you know we talk about the political on the left side like like they're what they're trying to do is good it's right like it's it's from god like it's just so good things right but there's like but there's ways that people twist and all sorts

of stuff like that and i i wish they would show more of that because i felt like the characters were one-sided where it's just like you know it's like the people the looters are the people that are producers and i feel like there's more blend i think for all of us we have blends of those things yeah and they do a good job of dissecting super yeah you know i think we all have all those things like i want to give i want to serve i want to do things but i also want to produce i want to We have blends of those things. And they do a good job of dissecting. You can see it. I think we all have all those things. I want to give. I want to serve. I want to do things.

But I also want to produce. I want to do both those things. What's the world look like where we do both of those things? And I don't know how to. In my little universe, I've created for myself and my family. I'm trying to produce. Then we've got OUR. We've got these things.

I'm trying to contribute and trying to do my version of what I think is right. All we can do is what we think is right in our own little world that we create and so this is my world i've created i'm trying my best to do it and um and i wish that they would show some outside because i think i think that that was the part i feel that the characters were missing just that part of it so what's interesting in christ like charity love stuff okay well and i'm so glad you brought this up. What I think is interesting is my takeaway from, or like the thing that I felt like the book was lacking the most is nobody had kids. Oh, I didn't think about that.

Like, think about this. Like, none of them, like, because one of my questions to you was going to be like, how has, how has having kids, and I kind of asked earlier, like kind of changed perspective, but I'm like, nobody had kids. So like, and and and i don't have kids i'm not married i don't have kids i'm getting i'm getting married yeah by the way shout out to my beautiful fiancee all right but um like for me like i'm so focused right now so i grew up in a big family right eight kids i'm the oldest living i have one older brother passed away but

like six younger siblings and so like for me i, man, like my whole life changes once there's kids in it. And like, I know that even though I haven't experienced it because I've seen it. Right. And so for me, and like Leah and I have talked about this, like the 20s are for us, 30s are for kids. Right. Like, and so I'm like, I got to make as much money as I possibly can before then because I, and I even told Colette this, I said, if there's, if there was one thing that I would

sacrifice my career for in order to be able to do, it like to homeschool my kids like i can't fathom sending my kids to public school right that's just me because i grew up homeschool or whatnot but like as i was going through the book i'm like i can relate to all these people but like they're leaving out like this key component like imagine being hank reardon and like living like he did with with your five kids or do you have i'm fine yeah okay i was gonna say before i was like oh my gosh so like think about that you know anything and so i feel like one of the because there's a lot of people i know that have read atlas drug they're like heck yeah man like the greatest book ever like for profit blah blah blah and i'm like yeah but like imagine living your life that way with a family yeah like imagine living your life like

that like with like kids and responsibilities like people that you actually like love. How do you think about this? Because I think of our timeline and it comes back. We talk about with greed and contributions or growth and contribution. Right. So most of us, we get born. All of us, we get born. Right.

Only way to get here. We all get we all born. Right. And from like when you're born till you're whatever. For me, I got married at 22 i was 22 right and so it's like um the first 21 years it's all about you right like it's selfish it's growth it's like whatever it's you you right and everyone's very inward focused and then all of a sudden you meet this beautiful person and you fall in love like this is amazing and also what happens is it shifts from you you

to like us and like you're giving taking giving and it's cool because like, all your focus isn't on you, it's on somebody else. And, but they're focused on you too. And it's like this, this amazing thing where like, I'm giving, but I'm also getting, it's like this amazing thing, right? It's like this transition that's easing you into kids because then kids come out and it's, it flips now where it's like the opposite where you're just serving a hundred percent, especially the very beginning of the kids. Like there's nothing like, I was joking to my kids about this one night when they're like, why are you guys so mean? I'm like, do you realize we get no value from this? We don't get paid a penny from this.

There's nothing in parenting. We kill ourselves. We serve. We don't sleep. We work. We pay money. And that's not true. There's value.

I was like, I'm just sitting there imagining Russell telling his kids, we get no value. You do not pay us. You know, I'm like, I'm like, I'm killing myself. You do get a tax break. Yeah. It's just funny. Cause I'm like, I'm like, you know, and so, but especially in the first board, like they're cute and you get less, but they're in the selfish space now where you're giving me a

hundred percent and they're not giving back other than like they giggle and cute. Oh, it's so cute. But for the most part, it's like, if you have this like training at this time where you're selfish and it's like, oh, I'm, I'm'm serving someone else but they're serving me an amazing now since like 100 service there and i think that that's a good point like hey career had only done this thing and then you know he never had a chance to like 100 serve somebody else and see what that's like because that the value you get as a parent is is when you serve 100 of the kids and you see like who they become and you know yeah and that's the value but um but it doesn't come from like from like the the quick pro quo that you normally get with like i'm gonna buy

this thing or pay for this thing right ever right it's like i'm gonna serve and serve and serve it and eventually hopefully someday you turn to be yeah well because i and that's a super interesting point and maybe that's maybe that's why she left the part out of it because she was like none of these people would ever have she didn't have kids so kids. So that's the big, you know, she's never seen that. At least not that I'm aware of. I'm pretty sure. That's crazy. Cause what,

like I was, you know, going through it and I'm like, this book I think would mean so much different or like, so like when I first read it, like I said, whenever I first learned about this back in high school, right?

Like I read it. I was like, I hated reading. I publicly, and this is actually funny. Like I, when I graduated high school, I bought myself a pickup truck. I was on top of the pickup truck and I publicly declared to the world that I would never read another book ever again in life. I hated reading. Right. Um, and so that's funny. Cause now I'm reading 1200 books and I've read every, every one of those books, um, back there. there um like it didn't really take on the same effect as like now like being an entrepreneur like being someone like at one point i have five employees i'm like 26 years old you know and so like now i'm reading and i'm like yeah yeah yeah but if i read it with kids i feel like that would even like give you

like a completely different perspective on like it how has how is having kids changed your because you're an entrepreneur like basically from the one right like you never really had a job right i've served tables and i've never had a job more than three months okay so yeah so you're you're a failure in the normal society right you can't hold a job you're you know yeah you get fired forever but like how has changed or how's having kids and like having to balance – because, man, like, dude, you're running a – ClickFunnels is a billion-dollar company, right? We're allowed to say that?

Like that's a thing, right? Like roughly? Like I'm not off on that? All right. The value is based on what people pay for. So hopefully people pay for that. So we're going to say a billion-dollar company. So like you're running this billion-dollar company.

You've made hundreds of millions of dollars. You've been paying a million dollars an hour from the stage before. Big props. Congratulations. of dollars you've been paid a million dollars an hour from stage before what big props congratulations um like how has balancing work now with that like with the kids like growing up i feel like like now they're at because you're old this is what you're too old 14 almost 15 right so like how has that changed the way that you view your work like do you struggle with that like the balance yeah especially now with like covid stuff happening kids being homeschooled right now it's like before it's easy to separate like

they're going to school i'm going here separation is easy now it's harder because like they're still home and it's like oh should i be there like you know it's it's definitely it's definitely tough um and it's it's interesting i have so many entrepreneur friends i always tease them because it's like who don't have any any kids and they're doing amazing things. I'm like, yeah, but I'm doing this stuff and I got five kids and a beautiful wife and I got callings in my church. And there's so many things.

I think it's just, I think I hired a trainer. Dave knows a safe trainer. I remember when he started working this, he said, the biggest thing he knows when he started working with me is that you'll be shocked what your body can actually endure. I think that most people don't understand what they could actually do.

Like, how do you run a company this big and have a family and have a successful marriage and have these like you can do it and most people don't because they sedate and like i don't watch four hours of football at night because i have all these other things right like like i like i don't know it's just like if you take away the excuse of sedation like you can produce so much more than i think people are able to understand. I don't know. So it's interesting. And then it's been such a weird thing too with kids because I think when you first start having kids, you assume they're all going to be like you, right? Like, oh, they're all going to be entrepreneurs.

It's so much fun. And then I had twins. It was crazy. Twins, our first two became our twins. Now they're 14, almost 15. It's crazy because I assume like they'd all be the same, the same as me, or at me or these same together and they are so polar opposites right like yeah i didn't even know i just found out today that they were twins yeah like i had no clue call it's like yeah they're both turning 15 i'm like wait what yeah they're looking at each other act each other and like

one's more entrepreneurial one's more like if you look at like this profile we have a di with sc like oh my god extrovert like all the things are different and um and i always thought you know like my kids are entrepreneurs like me and now it's like no i don't think they have to be this kind of goes back to talk about earlier like you know with my kids i'm like now like what do you want to do and and you know i think one of my things some of my kids are very entrepreneurial a lot of them aren't i think some of my kids are super smart hard workers we're going to be amazing at the roles they play in in something they're going to be a huge part of like changing somebody's world, but it's not going to be the front person of it. Right.

And so it's just, it's been interesting watching that and I'm fulfilling and hard and it's all the things wrapped into one. You know, it's, I don't know. It's, it's an interesting experience. You're gonna love it. You start having kids right away. Yeah, that's not going to happen. Okay. But why though? You know, you should take time. Okay. But how long did you go how long did you wait uh two let's see let's see we had our 18 year anniversary this kid's been 15 so almost three years yeah three years before

we tried earlier but we could we had fertility drugs stuff like that and everything bs about two years and we started training yeah i can't kids't, kids scare me, dude. And I'll tell you, but so like, it's interesting because like I grew up with six younger siblings. So like I was definitely old enough to remember like the whole diaper phase and like, you know, obviously I wasn't the parent with it, but like, and the church that I went to, like the eight was like average to small amount of kids. Like a lot of them were like 13 kids, 12 kids, 14 kids, whatever. Like I think the smallest in our whole church was four. Like, and they were the weird ones, right?

You only have four kids. And so it's like everywhere we went, that's just like what it was. And so for me, like I had that rebellion phase, if you will, which I don't know how to call it rebellion phase. But like where I was like, I don't know what to call it rebellion phase but like where i was like i don't want any of this like why would you like they're expensive and and they like suck all the time and i i can't go do this i'm like i want to be so filthy rich before i go like having kids and so and i like taught sunday school and like was very involved in like the church growing up and things like that and so for me it was like i want to go build my business like

building off like doing that is like more fun. The interesting thing about kids, and I told my parents this, I don't remember what it was, but like my parents are not like, my parents aren't like super like wealthy or like successful when it comes to business or anything like that. But like, I look at my parents as like some of the most successful people that I've ever met in my life because my mom's favorite, like there's like little things that my mom like tells me over and over and over again. And she's like, one of her favorite lines is the only thing i need to know in life is like i just need to know that my children walk in truth right and i'm like my mom particularly and my dad too like both of

them but like i related with my mom because she keeps saying it is like my mom's definition of success and like achievement was do my children walk in truth do my children like that is what was success to her and like she's like you can take you know like yeah money would have been great like all these different things but like that was like kind of this this pinnacle of success for her like do my kids like walk in truth and so as i have gone through my own journey of faith which has been i mean it has been rough at times right like i've watched her like struggle with it and like freak out because she's like i just want i'm like but it's not like that's not her journey to bear but like it is like at the same time and so it's always been interesting like kids are like this thing where i feel like once i have them

obviously they're i'm there for the rest of my life but like i feel like there's this distress or like this new there's this new piece of my life that's unlocked that like i've never explored before i don't know anything about it right and i'm like afraid isn't the right word but i'm like pushing that off that is as long as i possibly can because once it's open then i never get to close it again and like that mystery is almost like fun to like look forward to but at the same time be like i get to focus on it i mean it's interesting i remember um thinking about a lot especially first few years i was like this is so much harder than I thought it was going to be.

I thought it was going to be way harder, but I also remember feeling and saying, this is so much cooler than I ever dreamt it was going to be. It was like this double-edged sword. I was like, man, I didn't realize how tired and worn out and all these things, but then so much better than I thought.

It's funny because I know a lot of friends like well when i make money then all the kids i don't think i don't know it's different like i would just have kids like you can do both it's not it's not impossible especially the first born they sit there and they're like you know and i would throw i started spending a year or two and just nod right right right but like i wouldn't wait till like oh i need a million bucks in the bank i get people all the time like i have i know people that were broke they have eight kids like just they're not that expensive right like cheerios are not that expensive like if you need to you know like um it's just it's just it's just being willing to be there and be loving and being um being present for as much as you can um another

thing it's been interesting uh especially now that our kids are into teenagers and it's like so much harder that's been harder just like really that's harder than when they're young oh for sure yeah it's dave's over here just laughing it's different oh gosh what am i in for dave oh no yeah the young heart is like i am tired i like that's that's the hard part when you're young when they're older it's just like if i mess these kids up like i just want them to be successful. I think that's the bigger fear. And it was interesting. I remember the little thing that gave me some grace, like Tom Bilyeu. I heard an Instagram post he had of him talking about how being a parent.

And it was so funny because he's like, who here is scared that you're going to F up your kids? That was how he would have said it. Right, yeah, yeah. Who's messing with your kids? And everyone's hands like, yeah, I'm scared. He's like, guess what? Yeah.

Let me make sure I get this right. He's like, my parents messed me up. Your parents like, you're going to mess your kids up. But guess what? We turn out okay in the end. Like,

just be okay. In fact, you're going to mess your kids up. Cause you are. And I remember I was like, okay, like everyone messed up their kids. Like that's part of it.

Like, but that's part of the whole journey. That's the journey. it's like that's part of it i think you give me some grace of just like look i'm gonna do my best i'm probably gonna mess them up but at the same time like you have to have faith like they're gonna do their thing and and they're gonna hopefully make good decisions and if not that's why we have god that's why we have repentance away all these things you know and just and kind of leave it to leave it to him and do your best. Hey, everybody, this is Russell again. And really quick, I just opened up a texting community,

which means you can text me your questions. And right now I'm spending anywhere between 10 and 30 minutes every single day answering questions through text message to people who are on the podcast. And so I wanted you to stop everything you're doing, pull your phone out, and actually text me a message, okay? And the phone number you need to text is 208-231-3797. Once again, it's 208-231-3797. When you text me, just say hello. And then what's gonna happen is I'll add you to my phone

and then they'll send you back a message where you can add me to your phone and then we can start having conversations. On top of that, through this texting community is where I'm gonna be giving out free swag, giving away free copies of my book, let you know about book signings, about times I'm coming to your local area

and a whole bunch more. So I wanna make sure you are on this list. On top of that, every single day, I'm sending out my favorite quotes, my favorite frameworks and things you can get for free only through my texting platform. So what you need to do right now is pull out your phone and text me at area code 208-231-3797.

One more time, that's 208-231-3797. I can't wait to hear from you right now.