Marketing Secrets with Russell Brunson - The Atlas Shrugged Interview - Part 4 of 5

Episode Date: November 30, 2020

Welcome back to the 4th part of this interview series. We are getting near the end and the topics keep getting more interesting. In this episode you hear them talk about the influence their parents had on their lives in business. If they feel misunderstood as entrepreneurs and how their ability to communicate might be able to change that. Russell explains how he realizes that Clickfunnels is a team effort and that’s what help him stay so grounded. Then they discuss what each liked most about the Atlas Shrugged book and what character they each associate with most. So tune into part 4 of this exciting interview! Hit me up on IG! @russellbrunson Text Me! 208-231-3797 Join my newsletter at marketingsecrets.com ---Transcript--- What's up everybody, this is Russell. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets podcast. All right. I hope you guys have enjoyed the first three. We are moving into the fourth episode of our interview. My interview with Josh Forti talking about Atlas Shrugged. Again, during this series, we've been talking about religion and politics and all the things you're not supposed to talk about, but we've done it all through the lens of Atlas Shrugged, which I hope you've enjoyed and had a lot of fun with it. Hopefully it's made you want to go and actually read the Atlas Shrugged book, which I think would be really, really cool. With that said, I’m going to queue up the theme song. When we come back, you have a chance to start listening to part four of my interview with Josh Forti. Josh Forti: So, what did your parents do right for you? One of the things that I try to say, I try to say it a lot but I don't even say it enough. My parents have played a absolutely tremendous... I owe so much of who I am today to my parents indirectly in a lot of ways. My parents didn't teach me about money or things like that. That wasn't their gift, but the principles of hard work and family values, biting your tongue, even though it doesn't seem like I bite my tongue. Oh my gosh. Every day, right? Russell Brunson: It could be worse guys. Josh: Right. It could be way worse. Some people would love that, but you know, deescalating situations and having those... I owe so much of who I am to those. Yeah, they messed up in a lot of ways like you said, but what were some of the things that your parents did right? What are the things that you remember from your parents? Russell: Yeah. I love my parents. I was very blessed with my parents, for sure. I don't think my dad was super engaged when we were younger just because he was in the phase where, like trying to figure things out and make money. It was different back then. Josh: Is he an entrepreneur? Russell: Yeah. He also had a job, but he did side business so he was always trying to figure things out. I saw him doing these things. I saw the job he didn't love and then I saw him doing stuff he did love and I watched him work really hard. Then when I started wrestling, I saw my dad... That became the thing that me and him connected with which meant the world to me and it was so important to him. What's cool was that my dad showed up to every wrestling practice. He came to every single match. His day job was State Farm insurance, he built up his book of business where by the time I was wrestling, he was able to take off as much as he wanted. It ran itself and he was making money and had residual income. I remember my dad was the only one, as soon as wrestling practice got done, my dad would walk in and we would do practice afterwards. Never missed a match. He was always there. I remember just thinking, I want to make sure I have a business or something like my dad was for me. That was so important to me. Like I said, he wasn't super around when we were younger and I think he struggled because of the younger kids, which I understand. That phase in my life, he was there and my best friend and it was just, it was awesome. I love that and I've been trying to have my kids now. Especially at times where maybe I wasn't as good of a dad, I was too busy. I'm trying to connect more. That was my dad for sure. Then my mom, for me she was just... I wouldn't say I'm a people pleaser but I'm very much an achiever. I think when I started wrestling and I saw my dad got closer to me and then I got a win and I saw him get excited, I wanted to win because I wanted to impress my dad. To this day, I think I still have that. Part of the reason I'm in this business and I'm doing stuff is I love when my dad sees it. There's something, I love impressing him. To this day I love that win. With my mom, she loved me even when I didn't win. that was something that was so foreign to me. I remember I'd be cutting away for wrestling, I hadn't eaten for three days. I'd be so tired, so miserable. She'd come down and sneak in my room, bringing me food. I'm like, "Mom, I can't eat. I'm not going to make weight." She's like, "Why don't you just quit then? You don't need to do this." She was the opposite of my dad. She loved me no matter what and didn't care that I was trying to win or succeed. Couldn't care less. She loved me just because I was me. That was weird but so cool as well. It's both those principles, it's something I've tried to weave in. I've got two different sides I'm trying to weave that into my kids. Again, so far from perfect, but I think those are the two things that meant the world to me, that I'm super grateful for them those things for me because I still remember those things now. Josh: So there is... Which by the way, that's awesome. There's a lot of people in this world that are growing up without a dad, without a mom. It's interesting because I think a lot of my social media posts, I kind of come across sometimes like the heartless a-hole, you know what I mean? A little bit, they're like, "Josh!" You know what I mean? You talk about, take personal responsibility for your life, everybody can do anything. If you're broke it's your fault, that's one of my favorite sayings. If you're broke in America it's your fault, right? They're like, "Josh, you don't understand. You grew up and your parents are still married. Not only do you have parents, they're still together and they still actually love each other." It's not even necessarily they're still together. You're like a percentage of the percentage of the percentage in a lot of ways. I don't even know what question I'm asking you, but what would you do? Where could somebody find that? What can we do as a society or just as entrepreneurs, as producers to help those people? I feel like that's a really big need. Russell: For sure. Josh: One of my big struggles with this is I always want to point it back to the church. I had a really awakening, come-to-Jesus moment back when I posted, this is probably a month ago or so. I posted it on Instagram actually. I think you liked it, actually, so I know you saw it. I said, "Defund the media, defund fear, defund career politicians. Fund orphanages, churches and schools." I posted it on Facebook and I posted it on Instagram, and I was shocked at how many people were like, "Dude. Fund the churches? They're a bunch of pedophile people there too." So many people had such this negative view of the church. I grew up in the church, that's what I knew. How I knew how family works is because I saw our own family and then I saw the church family and I saw the community and how the church was involved in the community. The church that I went to, after I moved out Grable, Indiana, I worked three doors down from it and that's where people went to vote was in their gym. And the fair, that's where people parked. The church was such an integral part... that word, a part of the community. So when I saw all these people that had this negative view of the church, that broke my heart because that was my solution. There are so many things. Like, if you don't have a dad, you can go to the church. If you don't have this, you can go to the church. Said, "What?" If that's your answer, that's cool, but how can we as producers of society and the people that are going out there and making the money, how can we help those that don't have what you and I had? Russell: It's interesting. What Mormons believe is the family is the central everything. That's God's plan. Husband and wife starts a family. That's an eternal principle, right? If you look at the adversary, Satan, whatever you want to call him, his job, if he can destroy the family, everything falls apart. That's the war we're in right now. We think we're in a lot of different wars. The war we are in is, Satan is attacking families. That's it. Josh: Okay. I want you to finish this, I have to say this though. Guys, and this is not Russell saying this, this is me. This is why I hate the Black Lives Matter organization. Not movement, the organization so much. Because, their whole principle is bragging about the traditional family values. Anyway, I'm not speaking for Russell. Russell: Yeah, if you Google "The Family: A Proclamation to the World," you'll see my beliefs on family. We have it printed out eight foot on my wall in my house. That's my belief. Family is central, everything. So, Satan, the way he destroys societies and nations and this world is, destroy the family. So when you see families are broken, they're single mothers and single fathers, it's heartbreaking. I think it's the saddest thing in the world. I don't know the right way to solve it. I do know that it's vitally important. I remember first time I met Tony Robbins and started learning from him, one of the principles he talked about in relationships is masculine, feminine energy. The masculine and feminine is key to a relationship. I could go on for four hours just on masculine and feminine. Oh, that's the most fascinating topic in the world. If you ever see how Tony fixes relationships, you look at the traditional view of traditional counseling, there's a problem. They're like, "What's the symptom of the problem?" They try to solve the symptom of the problem and counseling takes years because it's a symptom of the problem. All the issues, they're all symptoms of problems. The real problem is when there's a masculine and a feminine, and it doesn't matter. Again, this is true with gay, straight, doesn't matter. Feminine, masculine energy. You take a masculine and a feminine and that polar opposite, that magnetism, magnetize together, right? That's what creates attraction, passion, everything. What happens is you have a masculine and feminine, they're attracted together. That's how you start. That's how any relationship starts. Right? Then you look at people getting married. It was interesting because what Tony talked about, he said you look at typically in a relationship, there's what they call the seven-year itch, and why is that? He talks about the way the feminine causes change is... Some day I want to write a book on this. I don't know perfectly enough to- Josh: Russell needs to become a writer. My word… Russell: Yeah, I've got a lot of books to write. But, this is how it works in traditional marriage. Masculine and feminine. What happens is one of the ways that feminine causes change is they criticize, right? I see this with my wife, with friends, with girls. If they want their friend to change their hair they don't say, "Hey, you should get a haircut." They'll criticize to try to cause change. Right? What happens is that a feminine- Josh: Yo, wow. That's so true. Interesting stuff. Russell: Yeah. That's just one example of- Josh: Dave! Russell: Feminine… Josh: Right, right. Russell: So, feminine and masculine come together. This is just an example. They'll start criticizing the man, but a masculine man doesn't care, it bounces off him. Like, "Okay. Okay." Right? What happens after seven years of that happening? Eventually instead of it balancing off of you, which is the masculine response, you start taking it personally. Like, "Oh." As soon as you take it personally, guess what happens? You are shifting physically from your masculine into a feminine. You start shifting and what happens is you shift from masculine to feminine and boom, the attraction breaks, and it starts falling apart. And then all the other problems start happening. The problem isn't solving the fact that you leave the toilet seat up or that you don't communicate well. The problem is that the masculine-feminine attraction is broken. If you fix the masculine and feminine, you can make men become men and women become women. Attraction comes back, all the other symptoms disappear. It's fascinating. That's from a marriage, family, relationship standpoint. Josh: Okay. I want to- Russell: I'm telling this because I want to talk about this from the family with kids in a minute, but yes. Josh: Okay. But I want you to now give me another example that Tony Robbins has said, because what you made it sound like there is that the way the woman does something is the thing that's causing the bond. I know that's not what you meant. Russell: Oh, it could be, yeah. That's- Josh: I just wanted to do that clarification. Russell: It's the same thing with the men where the men are responding over and over, where women now become defensive and they become more masculine and it's the other way. Yeah. Sorry. That's not the only example. I was just- Josh: Right. Russell: The one- Josh: I just wanted to make sure we clarify that because I know thing's have been taken out of context before. Russell: Somebody is going to be angry at me. I apologize. I'm stupid. I get it. But conceptually, does that make sense? It's the break of the masculine and feminine that causes the split, which causes the disharmony. And if you bring the masculine and feminine together, I think that's what causes attraction and causes passion and causes all these things. I look at my life when we were struggling in our marriage, it's because I'm showing up feminine. When I show masculine, everything's great. Where my wife comes in masculine and I'm masculine, we butt heads, it's fascinating. Anyway, I don't want to get deep into this because there's so much stuff. There's another show on this, because you look at this thing. You've got a family and the mother and father split and then there's kids who go with either the mother or the father, and now what they have is they've got either a very masculine person they're learning from or feminine, but they don't see both. And so it shifts them and it shifts their relationship. So many problems. I think the way we help the most, or can help the most is... Hormozi does this. Alex Hormozi does this. He donates his money to... Do you remember the name of the charity? He got our first Two Heart award. It's afterschool kids. These kids, like men who... There's these kids trying to play basketball or lift weights or whatever, who don't have masculine energy in their life. They come and they donate their time and they help the kids to brig masculinity. All of us, we need male and female perspectives. Josh: Right. Russell: It's designed to have those things together. When you lose one of them, it's a tragedy. I think the way we can start helping is, how do we bring programs where they can see masculine energy and see the way to make it a positive and not a negative thing? A lot of times, all they know is masculine energy left and oftentimes there's a lot of anger between the people. They hear talking trash about the spouse and talking trash about these traits which are traits that are essential for them to develop. I don't know. I don't know if that's the right answer or not, but I feel like that's how we could help those things. Help them understand, like the kids who don't have a father or a mother. They need that energy in their life to understand it, to be able to... I don't know. Josh: Okay. This is seemingly unrelated to this, but I think that I can tie it back in because it's a question that I think fits in here. I'm going to start with a super-basic question, which I think the answer is obvious, but we'll go down this road. Do you feel misunderstood as an entrepreneur? Russell: I did early on, less so now. Josh: Why is that? Russell: When I was got started... Entrepreneurship has become more of a cool thing in the last decades. Since Shark Tank and stuff. Back when I first started it wasn't. Everyone was confused. Like, "Why would you do that?" It is cooler. Also, I think the more you talk, the more you either alienate people or you attract people, and I think a lot of the people who I have alienated have been alienated and I think they are attracted by attractive. So my bubble of people around me are people who understand this lingo, who relate to it. So it's less hard now than it was initially. Josh: I believe that one of my superpower... Your superpower, your art, your format is marketing and funnels, funnels specifically. That's what you do. I feel you could just sit there for hours and hours and days and forever for the rest of, all of time. Russell: Yes. I love it. Josh: My superpower thing that I like to do is this. Communication. I love constructing words in a way that people can understand. I'm sure not, but the Kanye West interview that Joe Rogan just did three days ago. Russell: I've heard about him… Josh: This has been a long awaited episode. No one thought it was ever going to happen because it was teased and it wasn't, didn't happen. Finally happens. So I see this, I had no idea what's coming. It drops and I'm a huge fan of Joe Rogan and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, this is amazing!" I sit down and I look online and all these people are like, "Terrible interview. Not worth your time. Couldn't get past the first 20 minutes." Anything like that. I'm like, what? So I go and the first 20 minutes are kind of like, eh whatever. I get done with this three-hour interview. It was like, top three interviews of all time. What's interesting is... Do you know Kanye? Like, how Kanye communicates at all?   Russell: No.   Josh: Okay, there's so many references that I want to use that you won't get. Kanye sees the world fundamentally differently and how Joe describes it in there and the way that I described it is... You wouldn't know this, like I said, because it's psychedelic, it's like a drug or whatever. But imagine being on a psychedelic drug in a small format at all times. That's how his mind works. He sees everything, it's like expanded. So even Kanye said, "The reason I have such a hard time communicating sometimes is because I see things in three-dimensional and then I have to put them into a two-dimensional conversation." I'm not trying to compare myself the way I think to the way that Kanye thinks, ubt this concept of people think he's beating around the bush when really he's just trying to explain something. One of the things I love doing is taking a concept that and figuring out how to describe it in a way that the average person can understand. I live in a different world, just like you live in a different world than the average person does. I live in a different world and that is by choice. I do not see the world the way that most people do. I intentionally do not want to see the world the way that other people do. Everything that I do, I will intentionally engineer where my life is different than the average person because I want to see the world differently, but I want to be able to communicate that in a way that they can understand. My question is, do you think that there's a lot of great ideas stuck inside of producer's heads that if more people understood them and thought like that, we could change the world for the better? But because they're stuck in their head and that person doesn't know how to communicate it well, or is not focused on that, that that effect never happens. Russell: Gotcha. Yes. That's why I think for me the study, this art of funnels and copywriting and story does, is so fascinating. That's what it is, right? I always pitch, like when we have an idea, in my head it's like this big granite block, right? It's like, this is the idea and give it to somebody, like, "This is the idea." You're like, "I don't get it." Right? Josh: Right. Russell: Then you start thinking about, who is it? Start chiseling away at the stone. You start chiseling, chiseling, and eventually you have this amazing statue. This thing that people can see and they can understand and they gravitate towards. I feel it's the same thing with communication or with any kind of idea you're trying to sell. The funnel is one thing. Right now, like, "Hey, you should buy my coaching programs." Why? Like, "Ah, it's too big." I need to take them to a path, simplify that. So there's a step-by-step process which is like chiseling away. Then inside each step of the process, there's the words and the stories, the things you communicate to simplify it to get more and more fine tuned. That's why for me, when we create a funnel and we launch it, it's like taking this big granite block and chiseling it down to now something that somebody can come in on the side of it go through a process. By the time they're done at the end, they're going to get some money, they're going to get a product and something's going to change for them. I think that's what marketing is. it's that process of trying to simplify the message. I think a hundred percent, that's why most ideas don't get out. I don't know, how many times have you had... This kind of comes back to talking about, who knows, an hour or two ago too, but four or five people get the same idea, but then one person executes on it. It's like the person who understands the communication the best is the one typically who gets it out, right? How much of your life or my life has been focused on the communication? I don't necessarily like that part as much. It's not my favorite part, but it's such an essential tool. I remember when I got in this game and I was trying to sell my very first product, Zip Brander. I put it up, I had a picture of it, Buy Now button and tried to send traffic, and nobody bought it. Someone's like, "Well, you need a headline," so I'm like, okay. So I put a headline. "Tell us what this does." So I found some sites that kind of modeled what they did and the people started buying it. It was learning that process of, how do you communicate? I remember thinking, I never want to learn how to write copy. That's what we all thought back then. "I don't want to write copy, I don't want to do that. That sounds horrible." I wanted to hire someone, but the people I tried to hire was expensive, it was 10 to $20,000 for a sales letter. I couldn't afford it, so I'm like, I have to learn this art and how to communicate. I'm so grateful because that's how everything we built has been, off the communication of an idea, and doing it in a way that gets people to move. Josh: How do you decide what you're going to communicate? You have a lot of ideas in your head and you have a lot of different thoughts on everything and you choose to share funnels and marketing primarily. Then you have some religion in there, which I would say probably is number two, maybe ish, of what you communicate. But that's it. How do you decide... Russell: The battles I want to choose? Josh: Yeah. Russell: What battles? That's a good question. I think part of what's interesting, like why did I want to do this interview? I read the book, it was fascinating. I don't know the answers and I thought this would be a fun way to talk it out loud. This is fascinating. Funnels are fascinating to me because I can apply it to so many things. You know when I talk a lot about wrestling, but not the community you bump into but for wrestling, I talk about that. I think it's just the ideas that fascinate me that I feel have the most fluidity and can do the most. Again, as an introverted person, I'll typically go out and have conversations with people as much as I can, but when I find something that does cause and effect, that's why I practice telling my story so many times and I'll do a podcast. I know now when I'm on stage in front of 9,000 people, the stories can get people to move because I practice it. So I think it's putting a lot of things out in the water and then seeing what things people relate to, and then I go deeper on the ones that are like, "Okay, this one had an impact." There's a lot of stuff. I remember in first version Dotcom Secrets, there were seven or eight chapters more that never got published. I was going to publish… Josh: Do you have copies of this? Russell: Yeah. It was like, all my best stuff at the time that I knew that I was going to publish it and it was all in the book. I remember I heard an interview with Tim Ferriss and Ryan Holiday... Ryan Holiday at the time and they were both talking... Anyway, they were talking about their books. Both of them said that when they write a typical book... You know, Tim Ferris's books are like this fat… My first draft was like, twice as big. It's like, to make your book go from good to great, it's not adding more. It's cutting. Like, I cut two thirds of my book to give you this one. I think it was Ryan said the same thing. The first draft is usually twice as big as the final one. Then the next section, it's cut, cut, cut, cut. I remember going back to Dotcom Secrets that night and I was like, "Okay, based on that, what would I cut and how would that do?" I cut seven chapters out and after I was done, I was so scared because I love these things, but those things aren't that important to get people what they need to actually be successful. Some of those things ended up being in Dotcom Secrets and Expert Secrets, and different places, but yeah. I wonder how that first version- Josh: I was going to say, I wonder if she just published the first day or if she had a 2,700 page book and cut something out of it. That's crazy. Okay. Back to the question in the car, and I want to tie this back to the book. How has growing a multi-hundred million dollar, making hundreds of millions of dollars having a roughly billion-dollar company, being the CEO of 400 employees, how has that changed your perspective of the world? Russell: So many things I could respond. I think there was a season of my life where I thought that if I was going to create something, if I was going to do something, the way I was going to do it, by me. Does that makes sense? Josh: Yeah. Russell: In fact, if you look at my history, the first decade of business, the businesses were about me. They were me. I was the sole owner, the sole person. On this journey, when we started, it was so different. It was like, what's the team look like? Todd was my first time I had a partner. That was so scary for me. Then it's been the greatest thing I possibly could have done. Right? Then we brought in other partners and then employees and stuff. I don't know. It's been fascinating just realizing that to build this, it wasn't about me. It was about... I don't know, just that whole thing. I think anything great, a lot of times there's a person that gets credit for it. Like, Elon Musk gets credit because whatever or Bill Gates or whoever the people are, they get the credit for it. You start really seeing how many people are involved to make something amazing. You know what I mean? I think that's the biggest thing for me as I started growing it. It's frustrating. Not frustrating for me. I enjoy it. People are always asking, "Russell invented ClickFunnels." I literally don't know how to code anything. There's not one dot of code in that word. Maybe once I leaned over Todd's shoulder, put a button in that and he had to delete it. I think it's cool that you see how many... Before Funnel Hacking Live, every time we start we bring our whole team together. I'm the one who's on stage, but I am fully aware that it is not me. This is us. If it wasn't for this team and these people, all you guys, all your contribution, this was impossible. I want to always ground that because I think sometimes the leader or whoever gets a big head where they think it's them. I see that with a lot of people who are on big stages where they still drink their own Kool-Aid so they think it's them. That's my shift in the world, just understanding the great things, the things that we remember. The things that are legacies that go on and on and on. There may be a head or a person that the branding tied too, but there's this group of people that created something amazing. That's… know what I mean? Josh: How do you stay grounded? I am a huge fan of Russell because for me, you're the person I look up to as not just, hey, you taught me how to make a lot of money, but I want to have the character that you have. I don't want to have... I look at Grant Cardone. You don't have to talk smack about Grant Cardone, but I can. Grant Cardone is really, really full of himself. Don't get me wrong. I learned a lot from Graham Cardone, especially about money. He's changed my perspective about a lot of things. I'm eternally grateful for that, but if I grew up to be Grant Cardone, where that was the focus.., I mean, I watched him, I was there at the stadium down in Miami or whatever. It was all about him. I think he even got up on stage and was like, "Oh yeah, everybody says Russell is the greatest salesman, but I'm the one that packed the house." I'm like, dude! You know what I'm saying? Why? Why is that necessary? How do you stay grounded? It's so fascinating to me to watch different types of people. I know Tai Lopez for example, for awhile there, it was all about Tai and now he's gone more behind the scenes, but each person that I watch whether it's Tai or Gary or Grant, they all have a different way about them. You have your way about them. The one that I see as the most grounded, humble... There's nobody that's looking at you. You get up on a stage and you're like, "Oh yeah, I'm Russell!" You know what I mean? Russell: Everyone awkwardly, like, "Yay." Josh: Right. Then you walk up and Grant's like... But you, it's just yeah, it's that awkward, "Hey, I'm just over here." How are you grounded in that? How do you not let it get to your head? Because it would be so easy for you to get wrapped up in your own head. Russell: Someone told me it's because of my wife. They said, "If you'd married anybody else, your head would be so big." Josh: I met your wife for the first time today. I mean, we had crossed paths, but I said when you were getting your haircut, "So what's it like being married to Russell?" She goes, "Hes just the sixth child of mine." I was like, oh boy. The big kid. Russell: That's awesome. I think I would say it's two things. We kind of talked about this earlier, but I'll tie back to it. The first one is that I am fully aware that these ideas are not mine. I didn't invent the funnel. I didn't invent any of this stuff. All I know is that I was on a path, in a journey. I was given the thing and the next thing, and I was freaking out and I was putting them together. That's part of it. This stuff's not mine. It's stuff that was given to me and tested and so I'm so grateful for that. It's never me like, "Oh, look what I invented." That's so annoying because it's not. Again, come back to these ideas, these thoughts, these desires and things that were given to us. I think that's the first part. The second part of it is, and I see this a lot in people in my world who, they had some success and then they're like, "This is my person. I made them a bajillion..." I hate that too. Like, you helped them in a piece but they did the work. I'm very careful to always when I'm talking about any of our success stories, I didn't make that person. We had this super-cool opportunity to be a piece to their journey. Right? We helped them give them some ideas and a tool, but they're the ones that killed. I don't know what it takes to build what they're building. I didn't do that. They did that. I'm grateful that they did and I'm even more grateful that I got to be a little piece of that. I got to be part of that journey. I got to see that and just have the impact of, oh my gosh. Because I killed myself and wrote those books and because Todd killed himself and wrote software and I was able to communicate it, they're able to do this thing and it's not all me. I'm fully aware it's not all me. I know what every entrepreneur has to go through to be successful and it's not a mentor who gives you everything. It's just a lot of people who are a piece. I've had mentors who gave me a piece that I'm so grateful for, but then they try to take all the credit, like, "Oh, this is when..." I hate that too. So I think those two sides. Number one is again, I don't think these ideas are something that I came up with. They were given to me and I was a good steward of them because I was able to aggregate and there's the thing. The number two is just my belief that I didn't help anyone. Even when you said, "You and Katie," I felt awkward. I didn't do anything. Josh: Right. Russell: Luckily some of the stuff resonated with you and it was a little piece of your journey. I'm so grateful for that. The fact, to see you do stuff now, it's so much fun for me to watch you. Just knowing, "Man, because he bumped into me, maybe something happened and now he's doing this stuff and this work and it's so cool seeing how you're impacting people." I think those are the reasons why I don’t think my head gets big, because I don't think it's me. I'm grateful that I get to be a piece of it, of the journey, but I'm not the creator of it. Josh: All right. I want to loop back to the book. Russell: Go ahead. Can we just read it? You guys want us to read it to you? Josh: Yeah. What was the thing that fascinated you about it though? When you've asked me, you were like, "Dude, I read it and I'm geeking out about it, I just want to geek out about it." What about it had you so fascinated? What did you want to geek out about it? I have a question that I want to ask later on about it, but what was the thing that just made you geek? Russell: There are a lot of things. I think the biggest thing that I was really excited, we talked about earlier was just… The biggest thing earlier was just this cons-... Again, for those of you who are tuning in late in here, there's the whole, it talks about greed. Right? And that concept of greed versus charity. Again, the book very much is like, greed is good, it's the thing that causes production and you should care about yourself and then good things will happen, it will create jobs and everything else will take care of as long as you're caring most about yourself. Which I thought was kind of cool but then also I had the other side with my beliefs in Christ and Christianity and all these things like that, where it's just like, how does that reconcile with faith, hope, charity and love, and serving everybody else? That's probably the thing that got me the most. I think about that a lot, especially in politics. Again, I'm not deep into politics, I'm not going to talk about who I'm voting for, not voting for, it doesn't matter. But I see that on both sides. I feel like on the Republican side you see a lot of this stuff, like this. Then on the Democrat side, you see a lot of the charity stuff. Again, in my notes I wrote this actually initially, because I wanted to talk about this. I'm a big believer that there's not a right and wrong. There's good in both sides. Josh: There's not a right or wrong side. Russell: Yeah. Things are messed up on both sides. It's how the world works. Satan, there's this eternal struggle between God and Satan and Christ, this is always happening. So there's two sides and there's God-like principles and things on the right that are amazing and then there's Satan that's twisting things and jacking them up. Same thing on both sides. I see everyone fighting tooth and nail and I bet you, if we all sat down, the majority of all issues we'd all agree on. But then it's these fringe things that causes so much hatred and fighting and just drives me crazy. I think that this book is the perfect example of what I believe so much in some of these principles, but there's also the opposite principles that I also believe in and they're both right. If you missed the beginning part of the interview, we talked more about that but the greed, the growth and contribution, that transition is the key that just fascinates me. Josh: Yeah. What parts of the book contradicted the most with your faith? What part of the books did you have the hardest time with because of your faith? Russell: Yeah. The producers in the book, the minds, the people that I connect with, because I self-identify as a producer, someone who's obsessed with production and creating. That’s why I relate with Hank Rearden, Dagny, all these people are cut from my same cloth. It's as they're growing this stuff that they didn't give back, that they didn't... That's the thing. I felt like they weren't rounded out characters and that's the biggest thing for me. The first half of the book, I want to be Hank Rearden. He's fricking the man. Like yes, that's all I want to be. I wanted to see him have that change of heart where he's Christ-like and he gives of his own free will. Not because the government came with the gun and told him he's got to pay taxes. I wanted to see his character develop and realize that, "Oh my gosh, I should be serving people because I love them. Not because of the government's force." That's the piece that I wish. Josh: It never took that turn. The book, you almost expected it and then it didn't happen. Russell: It got worse and worse and worse and then they waited until just everything... People were dying, everything collapses and then the lights in the yurt go out, wooh, and they're like, "Okay, now we can come back and build." Josh: Now we can go back and build, but even when they come back and build, it was built by our new law of basically... Actually, one of the things that's fascinating about that was... Gosh, it was towards the end. Was it Galt? I think it was Galt. Yeah, I think it was during his speech when he was like, "The minds society, we gave all this stuff to you guys basically." Trying to be like God there, but every day, we created all this stuff, we created these jobs, we created these resources. We gave it to you and all we wanted from you guys was for you to let us be in our own head. Let us, our minds be free and not be controlled by anything else. You took all that and not only did you take it all, then you said, "No, you're bad and we're going to take that away too. So we're all going on strike because of that." You relate to that so much and then it's like, yes! Then they explained how they live and it's like, you expect them to have that change of heart rather, but no. It's because we are amazing and because we are the great minds and we must live by this code. It has nothing to do with actually giving back or actually contributing to society. It was like they didn't care about contributing to society. It just happened to happen. Russell: Yeah. Which is cool, which is why again, governments should let producers produce because the byproduct is really good. Josh: Right. Russell: For everybody. So that part is so much I relate to. Part of this is probably because Ayn Rand didn't believe in God. You know what I mean? That wasn't part of her values and so it's tough because she weaved that... I just wish at the end of the book, it would have been like, and then Hank Rearden realized that he could help all these people himself and so he built orphanages and changed all these kids' lives. Like, yes! That would have been amazing. He found about OUR and he went and donated money to save all these children. Josh: Right. Russell: But he did it of his own free will because he had that change of heart. I don't want to die at the end of my days and... I produced some great jobs, but I didn't care about people. I feel like that missed the mark. Josh: Hank Rearden you say is the person you related to really most in the book? Russell: Yeah, I think so. I wanted to be Francisco though, he was pretty sweet. Josh: Who do you think I related to most in the book? Russell: Oh. Who was it? Josh: It was a relatively main one. You were close. Russell: Oh, was it Francisco? Josh: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Yeah. Russell: He was cool. Josh: Right from the beginning he fascinated me. I knew right when, the plot twist of where he ran off and became the playboy or picture, he was obviously a playboy or whatever. I knew right then and there. I don't know what the plot, I don't know what the connection is but I know this is going to come back around and it's not going to be how it seems. The mind doesn't shift and then he stays in the scene or whatever. He fascinated me because, or he strikes me as someone... Hank Rearden didn't care about the crowds. He did not at all. He hated going to the wedding. It was by force that his wife drug him out there that one time. It was always, "I just want to work in my office." I'm actually not like that. I am actually much more the... I do like the crowds, but I don't like the crowds because I need praise. Don't get me wrong, I like being on stage and doing this type of stuff or whatever, but for me, I like the crowds because I love people. It's funny because I actually don't get along with a lot of people in real life. Whenever I go to the airport, I'm like, I will pay whatever it takes. Put me on a plane first, the least amount of people I have to deal with, whatever. I don't want to have to interact with people that I don't want to interact with. But I love studying and understanding people's minds. For me, one of the reasons I am so fascinated by Donald Trump is because of how he can control the crowds. You look at his rallies. Dude, you can't ignore them. They're just huge. My fiance's parents, or her mom and Kirby went yesterday, I think it was last night, to Omaha. 29,000 people showed up in the bitter cold of Omaha, a last-minute notice. That type of control or not even control, but that type of influence to be able to go through, what is it that makes people go and do that? So Francisco in the book, he was the partier guy and he went and he was with the crowds and he was very good with words and articulated, but he sold me at that wedding. I'm telling you. Russell: That was good. Josh: To me, there's more than two ways, but super simplified down, there's two ways to influence people. There's one, which is the indirect, which is build a software company, it's build a product, it's build an iPhone. You're not directly influencing them with your words or whatever, but it's influencing their behavior by creating a product, by creating a service that's going to go out and change the world. Then the other way is to actually go out there and change them with your words. That's why Jesus, for example, Jesus didn't build the product. He did it through His words kind of, sort of, but to me that's so fascinating. If I can figure out how to do that, that's how I can affect real change in the world. And it's funny because you've had had such a massive influence on my life, but probably a year and a half maybe ish into me knowing ClickFunnels, I was like, "Man, Russell's doing it all wrong." I had this thing of, if Russell would communicate more about stuff besides funnels, he would have a bigger impact. I had this limited belief of, this is the only way you can influence and impact people, is by going out there and actually speaking to them. But that's my superpower and my gift. In the book, Francisco was the one I think that best represents my style of trying to go out and do things. I find it interesting by Hank Rearden with you… Russell: I'm the same way. I would rather be in here building funnels, doing some stuff. There's scenes of Hank in the book where he's sitting there looking out over the factories at night and he sees, he watches the steel being poured, it's glowing. He's enjoying that. For me, it's similar where I do the stage thing and things like that. I get less value… interactions are hard, but I spend a lot of time on social media at night, just looking at the people that I know are in our world and watching what they're doing because that's me watching the steel. My mission is not to go teach people how to do what you do. I'm giving you a blow horn so you can go do it. That's more fascinating to me to sit back and explain to my wife. Events drive her crazy because then it'll happen and it'll get done and then I scurry off and I don't want to talk to anybody. I sit in the room and I just watch what people takeaways and then who they're talking to. I spend a lot of time just watching. That's for me like looking over the steel and being like, I gave them a trumpet or I gave them a blow horn and now their messages are going out there and I can just watch it. So for me, I don't want to teach personal development and this and that, but I want to empower or give tools or whatever tools there are so that you can and whoever all the other influencers are to be able to do those things. Does that makes sense? I'm an amplifier. I'm an amplifier of other people's messages and my message just happens to be, "Here's the amplification that you need to amplify your message," and then letting everybody else go and do it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody? It's Russell. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. All right. I hope you guys have enjoyed the first three. We are moving into the fourth episode of our interview, my interview with Josh Forty talking about Atlas Shrugged. Again, during this series, we've been talking about religion and politics and all the things

you're not supposed to talk about, but we've done it all through the lens of Atlas Shrugged, which I hope you've enjoyed and had a lot of fun with, and hopefully it's made you want to go and actually read the Atlas Shrugged book, which I think would be really, really cool. So with that said, the cube theme song, we come back, you have a chance to start listening to part four of my interview with Josh 40. So the big question is this, how are entrepreneurs like us who didn't cheat and take on venture capital for spending money from our own pockets? How do we market in a way that lets us get our products and our services and the things that we believe in out to the world and yet still remain profitable?

That is the question and this podcast will give you the answer. My name is Russell Brunson and welcome to Marketing Secrets. So how did your parents, what did your parents do right for you like what are the things because like one of the things that i try to say i try to say it a lot but i don't even say it enough like my parents have played a absolutely tremendous like i owe so much of who i am today like to my parents indirectly in a lot of ways like my parents didn't teach me like about like money or like like things like that like's not what, that wasn't their gift, but like,

like the presence of hard work and like family values and like, like biting your tongue, even though it doesn't seem like I bite my tongue. Oh my gosh. Every day. Right. Like, like,

you know, not like, like it could be a way worse. And like, some people would love that, but like, you know, like deescalating situations and like having like,

I owe so much of who I am to those and like yeah they messed up in a lot of ways and like like you said like so what were some of the ways like what were some of the things that your parents did right like what are the things that you remember for your parents yeah um i love my parents i was very blessed my parents for sure um you know my dad i don't think my dad was super engaged when we were younger um because and um just because he was you know he was in the phase where and i try to figure things out and make money and like it was different back then yeah but he also had a job but he did side business so he was always trying to figure things out and i saw him doing these things i saw like the job

he didn't love and i saw like him doing stuff he did love and i watched him work really hard and then when i started wrestling i saw my dad like like that did love and I watched him work really hard. And then when I started wrestling, I saw my dad, like, like that became the thing that made him connect to it, which like meant the world to me. And it was so important to him. And what's cool is that my dad showed up to every wrestling practice. He came to every single match. I mean, he, basically he built up his, he worked as his day job as a state farm insurance. He built up his book of business where by the time I was wrestling,

he was able to take off as much as he wanted and it ran itself. He was making money and had a residual income. I remember, like, my dad was the only one. Like, as soon as wrestling practice got done, my dad would walk in, and we'd meet him to do practice afterwards. Like, never missed a match. He was always there. I remember just thinking, like, I want to make sure I have a business

or something so that I can be there. Like, my dad was for me. That was so important to me. And like I said, he wasn't super around when we were younger. I think he struggled as a younger kid, which I understand i would like that phase of my life like he was there and my best friend and it was just it was awesome i love that and i've been trying to have my kids now and especially times maybe i wasn't as good of a dad i was too busy i'm trying to like now another port spots try to connect more um that was that was my my dad for sure and then my mom um my mom is uh for me she

was just like i think i wouldn't say my people pleaser but i'm very much like a cheaper right like like i think when i started wrestling and i saw my dad got closer to me and then like i would win i saw him get excited like like i wanted to win because i wanted to impress man to this day i think i still have that. We're like parties. And I'm in this business. I'm doing stuff. Cause I love when my dad sees it.

And it's just like, you know, like, like there's something like a love, like pressing into this day. Like, that's just like, I love that. When my mom,

it was like, she loved me. Even when I didn't win, like that was something that was so like foreign to me. I remember like, I'd be cutting weight for us. I had eaten three days. I'd be so tired,

so miserable. And she's like, she'd come down and sneak in my room like like bringing me for my mom i can't eat i'm not gonna make weight she's like why you just quit that like you don't need to do this and she's trying to get like and she's like the opposite of my dad and she'd love me no matter what and i didn't care that i was trying to win or succeed or didn't couldn't care less like she just wanted me to be you know she loved me like just because i was me and like that was weird and but so cool as well. And so I think both those principles, like, it's something I've tried to weave in, you know. I got two different sides.

I'm trying to weave that into my kids. And, again, so far from perfect, but I think those are two things that meant the world to me that I'm super grateful for them, you know, having, like, doing those things for me because I still remember those things now. So there is, which is by the way that's awesome um there's a lot of people in this world that are growing up without dad uh without a mom and like it's interesting because like i think a lot of my social media posts like i kind of come across sometimes like that heartless a-hole like you know what i mean like josh like you know what i mean like you talk about like take personal responsibility for your life everybody can do anything it's like if you're broke it's your fault like that's one of my favorite sayings like if you're broke if

you're a broken american it's your fault right like there's like josh like you don't understand like you grew up and your parents are like still married like you like not only do you have parents like they're still together and they still like actually love each other it's not even that so together like it's like you're like a percentage of the percentage of the percentage in a lot of ways so like what i don't even know what question i'm asking but like what would you do like where could somebody find that and like how can what can we do as a society or just entrepreneurs as like as producers to like help those people because i feel like that's a really big need sure and like it's one of those things where i'm like one of my big struggles with this is i always want to point back to the church

i had a really awakening come to jesus uh moment back when i posted uh this is probably a month ago or so and i posted on instagram actually and i think you liked it actually so i know you saw it i said uh defund yeah defund the media defund, defund fear, defund career politicians, fund orphanages, churches, and schools, right, and, like, I posted on Facebook, I posted on Instagram, and I was shocked at how many people were, like, dude, fund the churches, they're just as, like, they're a bunch of pedophile people there, too, they're, you know, like, so many people had, like, such this negative view of the church, and, like, I grew up in in the church. Like that's, that's what I knew. Like how I knew how family works is cause like I saw that our own family,

then I saw the church family and I saw the community and like how the church was involved in the community. And like the church that I went to, like after I moved out, like Grable, Indiana, like I, I worked three doors down from it and like they were, that's where people went to vote was in their gym and the fair, like that's where people park. Like the church was like such this integral integral part that word uh part of the community right and so like when i saw all these people that had this negative view of the church like that broke my heart because i'm like that was my solution right like there's like so many things like if

you don't have a dad like you can go to the church like if you don't have this like you're going to church it's like what and if that's your answer like that's cool but like how can we as producers of society and the people that are going out there and like making the money how can we help those that don't have what you and i had it's it's interesting because um you know what what mormons believe is the family is the central everything that's god's plan is uh husband and wife starts a family that's like that's a that's a an eternal principle right and so you look at like the adversary satan whatever you want to call him like his job like if he can destroy the family like everything else falls apart like that's that's the war we're in

right now yeah we think we're in a lot of different wars the war we're in is is satan is attacking families that's it okay which i want you to finish this i have to say this though guys and you this is not russell, this is me. This is why I hate the black lives matter organization, not moving the organization so much because their whole principle is breaking apart the traditional family values. Anyway, I know that's not your,

I'm not speaking for Russell just, but yeah, if you, if you Google a family, the proclamation to the world, you'll see my beliefs on family that we haven't printed out eight foot on my wall in my house like that's my belief family is essential everything and so satan is the way he destroys societies and nations and this world is to destroy the family and so when you see families are broken they're single mothers and single fathers like it's it's

heartbreaking it's the saddest thing in the world and i don't know the right way to solve it i do know that it's vitally important like um i remember uh first time i uh met tony robbins started learning from him like one of the principles he talked about in relationships is masculine feminine energy like the masculine feminine is key to like a relationship like i could go off like four hours just on masculine feminine like i'm oh it's like the most fascinating topic in the world um but you look at like if you ever couldn't see how tony fixes relationships But you look at like, if you ever couldn't see how Tony fixes relationships, like you look at traditionally,

if you had a traditional counseling, they're like, there's a problem, right? Like what's the symptom of the problem? They try to solve the symptom of the problem. And they, they counsel takes years because it's a symptom of the problem.

And Tony's like, like all the issues are all, they're all symptoms of promise. The real problem is like when, when there's a masculine and a feminine and doesn't matter. Again, this is true with gay, straight, doesn't matter. Like feminine, masculine energy, right? You take a masculine and a feminine, and it doesn't matter, again, this is true with gay, straight, it doesn't matter, but feminine, masculine energy, right?

You take a masculine and feminine, and that polar opposite, that's magnets that magnetize together, right? That's what creates attraction, passion, and everything. What happens is you have a masculine and feminine that are attracted together, right? That's how you start, that's how any relationship starts, right? And then you look at people get married, and it's interesting because what Tony talked right and then you look at people get married and it's interesting because what tony talked about so you look at typically in a relationship there's

like what they call a seven-year age and why is that and he talks about because the feminine the way the feminine causes change is um how much i got somebody want to write a book on this i just don't know i don't know perfectly enough to to explain this to become a writer but can say yeah i think my word i got a lot of books right but uh so this outworks in traditional marriage right so masculine feminine what happens is one of the ways that feminine cause change is they criticize right like if if i see this with my wife with friends with girls like they want their friend to change their hair they don't say hey you should get a haircut they'll they'll criticize to try to cause change? So what happens is that a feminine woman... Yo, I... Wow, that's so true. So...

This is... Yeah. Yeah. That's just one example of feminine energy. There's a million... Right, right, right. But like,

so feminine and masculine come together. So like, this is an example. It's like, they'll start criticizing the man, but a masculine man doesn't care. Like, it bounces off them like,

okay, okay, right? What happens after seven years of that happening, eventually, instead of it balancing off you, which is a masculine response response you start taking it personally oh as soon as you take it personal guess what happens you are shifting physically from your masculine to effeminate you start shifting what happens you shift from masculine to feminine and boom the attraction breaks and it starts falling apart and then all the other problems start happening so the problem

isn't solving the fact that you leave the toilet seat up but that you don't communicate well that the problem is the masculine feminine attraction is you leave the toilet seat up, but that you don't communicate well. But the problem is that the masculine and feminine attraction is broken. If you fix masculine and feminine, you can make men become men and women become women. Attraction comes back and all the other symptoms disappear. It's fascinating. And so that's from a marriage, family, like relationship standpoint. Okay. Can I?

Yes. I want to protect. I'm telling this because I want to talk about it from the family with kids in a minute. But yes. Okay. But I want you to now give me another example of that Tony Robbins has said, because what you made it sound like there is that the way the woman does something is the thing that's causing the bond. I know that's not what you meant.

Oh, it could be, yeah. I just want to make, I want to do that clarification. It could be the same thing with the men, where the men are responding over and over, where women now become defensive and they become more masculine and it's the other way. Yeah, sorry, that's not the only example. I was was just right the one time i just want to make sure we clarify that because i know things we're taking like someone's gonna be angry yeah i apologize i'm stupid like i get it um but conceptually does that make sense like it's it's the the the break of the masculine feminine that causes the split which causes the disarmament if you bring the

masculine feminine together i think that's that's that's what causes attraction and causes passion and causes all these things i look at my life like when we're struggling in our marriage like it's because i'm showing up feminine when i show masculine everything's great or my wife comes in masculine and and i'm asking we butt heads like it's it's fascinating and so um anyway i don't want to get deep in this because there's so much right right stuff but there's no i'm sure it's because you look at this thing like now you you got a family right and the mother and father split right and deep in this because there's so much stuff. But the reason I'm going to share this is because you look at this thing. Like, you've got a family, right? And the mother and the father split, right? And then there's kids who both either the mother or the father.

And now what they have is they've got either a very masculine person they're learning from or feminine, but they don't see both. And so it shifts them, and then it shifts their relationship. Like, so many problems. And so I think the way we help the most or can help the most is, like, Hermosi does this., Hermosi does this. Alex Hermosi does this. Like he,

he donates his money to, do you remember the name of the charity? He got our, he got our first two hard award. It's afterschool kids. So like, like these kids where they go to the, like men who there's these kids trying to play basketball or lift weights or

whatever, who don't have masculine energy in their life. They come and they donate their time and they help the kids that's awesome masculinity so they have they admit all of us we need male and female perspectives like we have like it's designed to have those things together when you lose one of them it's a tragedy it's like i think the way we can start helping is like how do we bring programs where where they can see masculine energy and see the way to like to make a positive not a negative thing and like um because a lot of times all they know is you know masculine energy left and and oftentimes there's a lot of um anger between

between the people when they hear talking trash about the spouse and talking trash about these traits which are like traits that are essential for them to develop and i don't know i don't know if that's the right answer or not but i feel like that's how we can help those things. It's just like helping understand like, like the kids who don't have a father or a mother, like they need that energy in their life to understand it, to be able to, I don't know. So. Okay. So this is seemingly unrelated to this, but I think that I can tie it back in.

Cause it's a question that I think fits in here. I'm going to start with a super basic question, which I think the answer is obvious, but we'll go down this road. Do you feel misunderstood as an entrepreneur? I did early on. I did less so now. Why is that? When I got started,

entrepreneurship has become more of a cool thing in the last decade. It's a shark tank on stuff back when i first started it wasn't everyone was confused like why would you do that uh it is cooler um also it's like i think the more you talk the more you either alienate people or you attract people and i think a lot of people who i have alienated have been alienated and i think i've attracted people i've attracted so like my bubble of people around me are people who understand this lingo who relate to it so it's less hard now than it was initially do you ever feel so like i believe that one of my super like your superpower like your art your format is like marketing and funnels funnel specifically like that's like what you do and like i feel like you could just sit there for hours hours and days and

forever for the rest of all the time right like my superpower thing that I like to do is this like communication. I love constructing words in a way that people can understand. Right. Um, did you, I'm sure not, but like the Kanye West interview, Joe Rogan just did like three days ago. I've heard about it. Okay. So like, what's up everybody. This is Russell Brunson.

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And the Working Genius is awesome. Like this test, I had actually blocked out an hour to take it because I was so excited for the new assessment. And it only took me like 10 minutes or less to get it done. Yet, even though it takes only 10 minutes, like you can actually apply this immediately. I took it for myself. I had my team take it. And what's cool about it is from there, we figured out exactly what people's working geniuses are. And that's important because if you're building a team or a company, you got to figure out, make sure that you have first off the right people, but make sure the right people are sitting in the right seats on the bus. And this is what this assessment will teach you how to do. Um, normally this assessment, you can go to workinggenius.com and there's two G's in

the middle, workinggenius.com. But I got you a 20% discount on the assessment, which is only $25. So don't stress. It's not an expensive test at all. But you get a 20% discount off when you put in the keyword secrets at checkout. So go to workinggenius.com. Again, two G's, workinggenius, two G's in the middle, workinggenius.com, and then use promo code SECRETS, S-E-C-R-E-T-S at checkout. You get 25% off. But then go take

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This has been a long-awaited episode for like, nobody thought it was ever going to happen, right? Because it was teased and it wasn't, didn't happen. Finally happens. And so like, I see this, I had no idea it was coming at like drops and I'm a huge fan of Joe Rogan. Right. And I'm like,

Oh my gosh, it's amazing. Right. And I sit down and I look online and all these people are like terrible interview, not worth your time. Couldn't get past the first 20 minutes, like anything like that.

I'm like, what? So I go and the first 20 minutes, we're kind of like, and whatever I get done with this three hour interviews, like top three interviews of all time. Right. And what's interesting is like, do you know Kanye about like how Kanye communicates like at all? Like, do you know? Okay. So like Kanye, there's so many references I want to use. Like, so like, like Kanye, like sees the world like fundamentally differently and like how Joe describes it in there. And the way that I described it is like you wouldn't know this like i said because psychedelic

it's like a drug or whatever but like imagine being on like a psychedelic drug like in a small format like at all times like that's how his mind works like he's like sees everything it's like expanded and so even kanye said he's like the reason i have such a hard time communicating sometimes is because i have to like i see things in three-dimensional and then i have to put them in in a two-dimensional conversation right now i'm not trying to compare myself the way I think the way that way Kanye thinks, but like that, this concept of like him,

people think he's beating around the bush. Right. When really he's just trying to explain something. Like one of the things I love doing is taking a concept like that and figuring out how to describe it in a way the average person can understand. Cause like, I, I live in a different world.

Like just like you live in a different world than the average person does. Like I live in a different world and that is by choice. Like I do not see the world the way that most people do. I intentionally do not want to see the world the way that other people do. Like everything that I do, like I will intentionally engineer where like my life is different than the average person. Cause I want to see the world differently, but I want to be able to communicate that in a way that they can understand. And so my question is like, do you think that there's a lot of great ideas stuck inside of producers heads that if more people understood them and thought like that we could change the world for the better but because they're stuck in their head and that person doesn't know how to communicate it well or is not focused on that that they that that effect never happens

yes yeah so i would say and that's why i think for me the this study this art of like funnels and copywriting and story does is so fascinating because Cause that's what it is. Right. Like I was, I was pitching, like when we have an idea in my head, it's like this big granite block, right? It's like, this is the idea. And to give it to somebody, like, this is the idea you're like, I don't get it. Right. Right. And then you start thinking about, uh, who is it? Start chiseling away at the stone, right? You start chiseling, chiseling, which eventually you have this like amazing statue, right? Of like this thing that they, people can see and they can understand they can they gravitate towards i feel like it's the same thing with communication right or with any kind of idea you're trying to sell

like the funnel is one thing like right now like hey you should buy my coaching programs like why like oh it's too big like i need to take them to a path simplify that so it's like a step-by-step process which is like chiseling away but then inside each step the process there's like the words and the stories and things you communicate to simplify it just to get more and more fine-tuned like that's why for me like when we create a funnel we launch it it's like they're taking this big granite block and chiseling down to like now something that somebody can come in on this side of it they go through a process by the time they're at the end they're gonna give us money they're gonna get a product and they're gonna change like something's gonna change for them i think that that's what

marketing is right it's that process of like trying to simplify the message um and i think 100 that's why most ideas don't get out right how many times like i don't know how many times have you had this guy comes back to talk about who knows an hour or two ago too but like four or five people get the same idea but then one person executes on it's like the person who understands the communication the best is the one typically who gets it out right like um how much of your life of my life has been focused on communication and i don't necessarily like that much that part as much like it's not my favorite part but it's such an essential tool i remember when i was learning uh when i got in this game and i was trying to sell my very first product zip brander and i was like i put it up i did a picture of it

buy now button and like tried to send traffic nobody bought and someone's like we need a headline something okay so put a headline like we need like tell us what this does and so i like found some sites that kind of model what they did and the people started buying and it was just like it was like learning that process of how do you communicate i remember thinking like i never want to learn how to write community like for me it was copy like that's what we all call back to like i don't want to write copy like i don't want to do that that sounds horrible um and i want to hire something but like people i tried to hire was expensive it was like 10 to 20 000 for a sales letter i couldn't afford it so i'm like i have to learn this art

of how to communicate and like so grateful because like that's how everything we built has been is off like the communication of an idea and doing it in a way that gets people to move how do you decide what you're going to communicate like you have a lot of ideas in your head yeah and you have a lot of different thoughts on everything. And like you choose to share funnels and marketing primarily. And then you have some religion in there, which I would say probably like number two, maybe ish of like what you communicate.

But I was like it, like how do you decide the battles I want to choose? Yeah. Yeah. That's a good question. I think, I mean, part of it was like, what's interesting. Like, why did I want to do this interview? Like I read the question. I think, I mean, part of it's like,

what's interesting. Like, why did I want to do this interview? Like I read the book. It was fascinating. Like, and I don't know the answers and I thought this would be a fun way to talk it out loud.

Like this fascinating funnels are fascinating to me because I can apply it so many things. You know, when I talk about wrestling, but not bump into, I talk about that. so I think, I think,

um, it's just the, the, the ideas that fascinate me that about that like um so i think i think um it's just the the ideas that fascinate me that i feel like have the most validity and can can do the most you know again as an introverted person i don't typically go out and have conversations people because i'm like uh you know as much as i can but if i find something like that does cause an effect right that's why like i practice telling my story so many times and i'll do a podcast and because like i know like now when i'm on stage in front of 9 000 people the stories and get people to move because i practice excuse me i practice it so i think it's i'm putting a lot of things out in the water and then seeing what things people relate to and then i can go

deeper on the ones that are like okay this won't have an impact a lot of stuff i remember yeah i remember in first version.com secrets um there were seven or eight chapters more that never got published i was going to publish them all you have copies of those it was like yeah all my best stuff at the time i knew and i was going to publish it and it was all in the book i remember i heard an interview with um tim ferris and ryan holiday he's right holly at the time and they're both talking anyway talking about their books both of them said that when they write a typical book you know tim ferris's books like this fat my first draft was like twice as big it's like it's like to make a book go from good to great it's not like adding more it's cutting it's like i cut two-thirds of my book to give you

this one and then i think it was ryan said the same thing he's like it's not like he's like saying that my books start at the final the first draft is twice as big as the final one then next section just cut cut cut cut i remember going back going back.com secrets that night. And I was like, okay, based on that, if I like, what would I cut and how would that do? And I cut seven chapters out.

And after it's done, I was like, so scared to make, this is like, I love these things, but I was like, those things aren't that important to like get people what they need to actually be successful.

Some of those things ended up being in.com secrets and expert secrets places. But yeah, I wonder that first, I was going to say, I wonder if she just published the first thing or if she like had a 2,700 page book and cut something out of it. That's crazy. Okay, back to the question in the car.

And I want to tie this back to the book. How has growing a multi-hundred million dollar, like making hundreds of millions of dollars, having a roughly billion dollar company, the ceo of 400 employees like how has that changed your perspective of the world i think so many i could respond i i think there was a there was a season in my life where i thought that like if i was going to create something if i was going to create something, if I was going to do something that like the way I was going to do it by me, does that make sense? Yeah.

And in fact, if you look at my history, the first decade of business, the businesses were about me. They were me. They were, I was the sole owner, the sole person,

you know, person. And on this journey, when we started, it was, it was so different. It was like, how do we, like, what's the team look like? How do we, we started, it was, it was so different. It was like, how do we like, what's the team look like? How do we like who, you know, Todd was my first time I had a partner.

It was like, that was so scary for me. And then the greatest thing I possibly could have done. Right. And then run other partners and then employees and man and like stuff. And like, I don't know, it's just, it's been fascinating. Just realizing that like to build this, it wasn't about me. It was about, I don't know, just, just, it's been fascinating just realizing that like to build this, it wasn't about me. It was about, um, I don't know,

just, just that, that whole thing. And I think, um, anything great. A lot of times there's a person that gets credit for like Elon Musk gets credit.

Cause he's whatever Bill Gates or whoever the people are, they get the credit for it. But it's like, you start really seeing, um, how many people are involved to make something amazing. You know what I mean? I think that's the biggest thing for me was I started growing it and it's,

it's frustrating, not frustrating for me. Cause I enjoy, I like, I like, you know, people, I was a Russell,

but that's a click funnels. I was like, I literally don't know how to code anything. I got one dot of code in that word. I like, maybe once I leaned over Todd's shoulder, put a button in, then he had deleted.

Like, you know, I think it's cool to, we see that like the, like how many, and I, before fun hacking live, every time we start, we bring a whole team together. And I see, you know i think it's cool to we see that like the like how many and i before fun hiking live every time we start we bring a whole team together and i see you know i'm the one who's on stage but i am fully aware that like that is not me like this is us like this like it wasn't for this team these people like all of you guys for all your contribution this was impossible

i want to always ground that because i think so many times that the leader or whoever gets a big head where they think it's them. And I don't know. And I see that with a lot of people who are on big stages where they still drink their own Kool-Aid and still think it's them. And I think that's my shift in the world, just understanding the great things, the things that we remember, the things that are legacies that go on and on and on. There may be a head or a person that like that the branding tied to but it's like there's this group of people that created something amazing that's but how did you like how do you stay grounded like one of the things that i like i am a huge fan of russell brunson right like i like because like for me like you're the person i look up to as not just, hey, you taught me how to make a lot of money.

But like, hey, I want to be like, I want to have the character that you have. I don't want to have, like I look at Grant Cardone. You don't have to talk smack about Grant Cardone, but I can, right? And like Grant Cardone is really, really full of himself, right? And like, don't get me wrong. Like I've learned a lot from Grant Cardone, especially about money. Like he's changed my perspective about a lot of things. I'm like eternally grateful for that.

But like if I grew up to be Grant Cardone, like about money. Like he's changed my perspective about a lot of things. I'm like eternally grateful for that. But if like, if I grew up to be Grant Cardone, like where that was the focus, I mean, like I watched him, I was, I was there when, you know, is the, the stadium down in Miami or whatever. Right. When it was, you know, it was all about him. And it was, I think he even got up on stage and was like, Oh yeah, Russell, everybody says Russell's the greatest salesman, but I'm the one that packed the house. Right. And I'm like, dude, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, like why, why is that necessary? And so like, how do you, how do you stay grounded? Right. Because like, I think there's, it's so fascinating to like watch different type people. And I know like Tai Lopez, for example, like for a while there, it was like all about time. Like now he's kind of

like gone more behind the scenes, but I'm like each person I watch where there's Tai or Gary or Grant, like they all have a different way about them and like you have your way about them like the one that is like the most grounded humble like is like there's nobody that's looking at you you get up on stage and you're like you know what i mean like you know right and then you walk up and grant's like but like you it's like yeah it's that awkward of like hey i'm just over here like how are you grounded in that like how do you how do you not let it get to your head because it would be so easy for you to to get wrapped up in your own head um someone told me it's because my wife they said if you married anybody else you had to be so big

i think um well so i like met your wife for the first time today. I mean, like we had cross paths, but I said, when you were getting haircut, I was like, so what's it like being married to Russell? She goes, he's just the sixth child of mine. I'm like, oh boy, the big kid. That's awesome. I think I say it's two things. And we kind of talked about this earlier

but i'll tie back to like the first one is that i am fully aware that these these ideas are not mine right like i didn't invent the funnel i didn't invent any of the stuff all i know is that i was on a path in a journey i was given the thing and the next thing and i was like freaking out i was putting them together and like that's part of it's like i think this stuff's not mine it's it's it's stuff that was given to me and tested and so like i'm so grateful for that like i'm it's never me like oh this look what i look what i invented like that's so annoying because it's not right like um these are again come back to these ideas these thoughts these desires things that were given to us and so i think that's the first part the second part of it is and i see this a lot in people my in my world who who um they have some success and then they're like this is my person

i made them a bajillion you know and like i hate that too because it's just like like you helped them in a piece but like but they did the work right i'm very careful like to always like when i'm talking about any of our success stories like i didn't make that person like we had this super cool opportunity to be a piece of their journey. Right. We helped them give them some ideas and a tool, but they're the ones that kill. I got to work takes to build what they're building.

Like I didn't do that. They did that. And like, I'm grateful that they did. Um, and, and I'm even more grateful that I got to be a little piece of that. Like I got to be part of that journey.

I get to see that and just like have the impact of like, Oh my gosh, because I killed myself, wrote those books. And because Todd killed himself, wrote software and I was able to communicate it. Like, like they're able to do this thing. And it's not all me. I fully watch it on me. Like I know what every entrepreneur has to go through to be successful. And it's not a mentor who gives you everything. It's just like a lot

of people who are peace. And I've had mentors who, who gave me a piece that I'm so grateful for, but then they try to take all the credit, like, oh, this is when, and I hate that too. And so I think, I think those two sides, number one is like, again, I, I don't think these ideas are, are something I came up with there. They were given to me and I was going to steward them. And so because I was able to aggregate them and like, there's the thing. And then number two is just, um, my belief that I didn't help anyone. Like, even like when you said like you and Katie, like I felt awkward, like, Oh, like

I, I didn't do anything. Right. I, I luckily some of the stuff that you resonate with you and itie like i felt awkward like oh like i i didn't do anything right i like luckily some of the stuff that you resonate with you and it's like a little piece of your journey i'm so grateful for that like the fact to see you do stuff now it's like so much fun for me to watch you and like just knowing like man because he bumped into me like maybe something happened and now right he's doing this stuff and this work it's so cool seeing how you're impacting people and i think those are the reasons why my head gets big because i don't think it's me um i'm grateful that i get to be a piece of it of the journey um but i'm not the creator of it all right i want to look back to the book okay can we talk can we just read it you guys want us to read it to you yeah what was your like what was the thing that fascinated you about it like

when you boxed me dude you were like dude i read it and i'm geeking out about i just want to geek out about like what like what about it how did you so fast like what did you want to geek out about it because i have a question that i want to ask like later on about it but like what was the thing that like just made you geek there are a lot of things i think the biggest thing that i was really excited we talked about earlier was just i know you that's good the biggest thing earlier in your direction yeah the the biggest thing earlier was just um this this cause again if those who are tuning in late uh in here uh there's a whole it talks about greed right and that concept of greed versus charity like um again the book very much is like greed is good as the thing that causes production and

you should care about yourself and then good things will happen like you'll create jobs and everything everything else take care of so as long as you're you're you're caring most about yourself which i thought was kind of cool. But then also I had the other side of, uh, with like my beliefs in Christ and Christianity and all these things that hours just like, Oh,

like how does that reconcile with faith, hope, charity and love and like, you know, serving everybody else. And like, and so that was like, that's probably the thing that got me the most.

I think that I keep, I think about that a lot, especially in politics. Cause again, I'm not deep into politics. I'm not going to talk about who I'm voting for, not voting for. It doesn't matter.

Um, but I see that on both sides. I feel like on the Republican side, you see a lot of this stuff like, like this. And then on the Democrat side, you see a lot of like the, the charity stuff. And, and, and again, my notes, I wrote this actually initially, because I wanted to talk about this. Like I'm a big believer that like, there's not like a right and wrong.

There's, there's good in both sides. Right. There's not a right and a wrong like right or wrong side yeah like there's there's like things are messed up on both sides like like i think that there's like it's just how it's how the world works like satan and like there's eternal struggle between god and you know satan and and and christ like this is always happening so there's two sides and there's like there's there's god-like principles and things on the right that are amazing and then there's satan that's twisting things and jacking up same thing on both sides like i see everyone fighting like tooth and nail i'm like i bet you if we all sat down the majority of all issues we'd all agree on

but then it's like these fringe things that cause like so much hatred and fighting and just drives me crazy and i think that this book's a perfect example like where i like so much hatred and fighting and just drives me crazy. And I think that this book's a perfect example, like where I believe so much in some of these principles, but there's also like the opposite principles. I also believe it. And they're both right. And it's like, and that's what, you know, I mean, if you, if you miss the beginning part of the interview, we talked more about that, but it's like the greed and the growth and contribution that transition is like the key that just fascinates me yeah so like what part of the like what part what parts of the book contradicted the most with your faith like what what what part of the books did you have like the most the hardest time with because of your faith yeah um uh the producers in the book the the minds the people i connect with because like that's who

i i i self-identify as a producer someone who's obsessed with like production and creating. And like, right. Like I, I really, so Hank Reardon, these Dagny, like all these people,

like I really like, like they're cut from my same, from my same cloth. And it's, it's as they're growing this stuff that they didn't give back that they didn't like, that's the best thing. Like,

I felt like they, they weren't rounded out characters. And like, I think that's the biggest thing for me it's just like i don't want to be like i like first i want to be a fan career and like he's freaking the man he's right like like yes that's what i want to be but i wanted to see him have like that change of heart where he's christ-like yeah of his own free will not because the government came with the gun and told me i pay taxes i wanted to see his character develop and realize that,

Oh my gosh, like I should be serving people because I love them. Not because the government's forcing me. Like, like that's, that's the piece I wish. Cause that's, that's like never,

it like never took that turn. Like the book, it was like, you, you almost like expected it and then it didn't happen. It got worse and worse and worse. And then they wait till everything's like people are dying. Everything collapses.

And then like the lights in New York go out and they're like okay now we come back and build now we can come back and build but like it even when they come back and build it was built like by our new law of right of like basically so actually one of the things that's fascinating about that was um was it in gosh it was towards the end when was it gall i think it was gall who was like basically yeah i think it was during speech when he was, um, was it in cash? It was towards the end when was it gall? I think it was gall. It was like basically, yeah, it was, I think it was during speech when he was like, um, all we, all we wanted was like, we, we gave the minds of society, like we gave all this stuff to you guys basically. And like, kind of being like God there, but like we get like here we day, we, we created all this stuff. We created these jobs. We created these resources. Like we gave it to you. And all

we wanted from you guys was for you to let us be in our own head like let us our minds be free and not be controlled by anything else and you took all that and not only did you take it all then you said no you're bad and we're gonna take that away too and so we're all going on strike because of that and like i you relate to that so much and then it's like yes but then they explain how they live and it's like you expect them to have that change of heart but it's rather but no it's because we are amazing and because we are the great minds and we must live by this code it has nothing to do with like actually giving back or actually contributing to society it's like they didn't care about

contributing to society that just happened to happen yeah which is cool which is which is why again government should let producers produce because the byproduct is really good right right for everybody it's like that part is so much i relate to but then and part is probably because ayn rand didn't believe in god like so that wasn't you know i mean it's like that wasn't part of her values and so yeah it's tough because she she weaved that i mean i just i just wish at the end the book would have been like and then hank gruden realized that he could help all these people himself and so he built orphanages and right and changed all these kids lives you're like yes he's like ah like that would have been amazing you know he found about oh you are and he went and donated money to save all his children right but he did his own free will because he

he had that change of heart um because that's like i don't know i don't want to die at the end of my days and like i produced and created jobs but like i didn't care about people like ah like i feel like that missed the mark you hang green you say the person you related to most in the book um yeah i think so um i wanted to be uh francisco though he's pretty sweet who do you think who do you think i related to most of them oh um who is it is a relatively main one was it you're close oh is it francisco yeah yeah for sure for sure yeah he was he was cool right from the beginning he he like fascinated me and like i knew like right when like that she introduced the or the plot twist of where like he like ran off and became the playboy or like picture himself as a playboy or like whatever like i knew right then and there like i was like i don as a playboy or like whatever like i knew right

then and there like i was like i don't know what the plot like i don't know what the connection is but i like know this is gonna come back around it's like not gonna be how it seems right like because like someone like the mind doesn't shift and like then he stays in the scene or whatever but like he fascinated me because i like he striked me as someone hank grady didn't care about the crowds he did not at all right like he hated going to the wedding he hated going like it was by force that his wife like drug him out there that one time it was always like if i just want to work in my office like i'm actually not like that right i am actually much more the like i do like the crowds but i don't like the crowds because like i need praise it like don't get me wrong like i i like being on stage and you know

like doing this type of stuff but like for me for me, like, I like the crowds because I've, I love people and I don't, it's funny because I, like, I actually don't get along with a lot of people. Like, like, like whenever I go to the airport, I'm like, I will pay whatever it takes, like put me on a plane first, the least amount of people I have to deal with, whatever. Cause like, I don't want to have to interact with people that I want to interact with, but like, I love like studying and understanding people's minds. Right. And for me, one of the reasons I am so fascinated by Donald Trump is because of how he can control the crowds. Like you look at his rallies, dude, like you can't ignore them. Like they're just huge. Um, uh, my, uh, fiance's, um, parents, like they went or her mom and, um, her mom and her, he went yesterday. I think it

was last night to omaha like 29 000 people showed up in the bitter cold over on like a last minute notice like to you know and like that type of control or not even control but like that type of influence to be able to go through like what is it that makes people go and do that like and so like francisco in the book like he like he was the partier guy and like he went and he was with the crowds and he was very good with words and articulated and then he but he sold me with the crowds and he was very good with words and articulated. And then he, but he sold me like at that wedding.

And I'm telling you, but like, it was good because to me there's, there's more than two ways, but like super simplified down, there's like two ways to, to affect, like influence people.

There's one, which is the indirect, which is like build a software company. It's build a product. It's build an iPhone, right? It's like, you're not directly influencing them with like your words or like whatever, like,

but it's like influencing their behavior by creating a product, by creating a service is going to go out and change the world. And then the other way is to actually go out there and change them with your words. Right. And so that's why like Jesus, for example, Jesus didn't build a product, right? He did it through his words, kind of, sort of, but like, to me, that's so fascinating. And I'm like, if I can figure out how to do that, like, that's how I can affect real change in the world.

And it's funny because like, you've, you have had such a massive influence on my life, but probably like a year and a half, maybe ish into like me knowing like ClickFunnels. I was like, man, Russell's doing it all wrong. And cause, and I had this, this, um, thing of like, if Russell would communicate more about stuff besides funnels, like he would have a bigger impact. Right. And like, I had this like limited belief of like, this is the only way you can influence impact people is by like going out there and actually like speaking to them right but like that's my superpower my gift so like in the book francisco was the one i think that best represents like my style of like trying to go out and do things i find it interesting about hank greater with you because i think it's like i'm so i gotta

be in here building funnels doing some stuff right like there's scenes of hank in the book where he's sitting there looking out over the factories at night and he sees he watches like the steel being poured it's glowing and yeah he's like enjoying that like for me it's similar where um like i do the stage thing and things like that um i i get less value out of like even interactions hard but like i love i spend a I spent a lot of time on social media and I just looking at the people that I know are in our world and watching what they're doing. Cause that's like me watching the steel. Like, like I'm not like my,

my mission is not to go teach people how to do what you do. Right. I'm giving you like a blow horn so you can go do it. Yeah. It's like, that's more fast for me to sit back and it's funny to my wife. I, and then to drive her crazy cause then it'll happen and it'll get done.

And then I, I scurry off. I don't want to like talk to anybody i sit in the room and i just like watch like what people do takeaways and who they're talking to like i spent a lot of time just like watching that's for me like looking over the steel and be like i gave them a trumpet or i gave them a blow horn and now their message is going out there i just kind of watch it and so for me it's like i don't want to teach personal development and this and that that but i want to like empower or give these tools or whatever tools are so that so that you can and and you know whoever all the other influencers are to be able to do those things that makes sense like i'm an amplifier i'm an amplifier of other people's messages um and my message just happens to be like here's the

amplification thing you need to amplify your message yeah letting everybody else go and do it hey everybody this is russell again and quick, I just opened up a texting community, which means you can text me your questions. And right now I'm spending anywhere between 10 and 30 minutes every single day answering questions through text message to people who are on the podcast. And so I wanted you to stop everything you're doing, pull your phone out and actually text me a message, okay? And the phone number you need to text is 208-23 3 7 9 7. Once again, it's 2 0 8

2 3 1 3 7 9 7. When you text me, just say hello. And then what's going to happen is we'll add you to my phone and then they'll send you back a message where you can add me to your phone. And then we can start having conversations on top of that through this texting communities, where I'm going to be giving out free swag, giving away free copies of my book, let you know about book signings, about times I'm coming to your local area, and a whole bunch more. I just want to make sure you are on this list. On top of that, every single day I'm sending out my favorite quotes, my favorite frameworks, and things you can get for free only through my texting platform. So what you need to do right now is pull out your phone and text me at area code

208-231-3797. One more time, that's 208-231-3797. I can't wait to hear from you right now.