Marketing Secrets with Russell Brunson - Unlocking the Secrets to a Profitable Funnel Agency with Katheryn Jones Lish

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

Recently, I had the pleasure of speaking with the incredible Katheryn Jones Lish, a powerhouse in the funnel-building world. Katheryn first came into the ClickFunnels ecosystem back in 2015 and has since made an impressive career out of building and designing high-converting sales funnels. We just wrapped up the "Sell Sales Funnels Challenge" at the ClickFunnels office, and in this episode, we dive into how anyone can turn funnel building into a lucrative business. Katheryn shares her journey from college student to successful entrepreneur, driven by a passion to impact both her family and the world. Katheryn's story is one of transformation and purpose. She recounts her experiences, including early struggles, learning how to market online, and how she found ClickFunnels. We also discuss the resistance she faced, such as personal challenges that tested her entrepreneurial aspirations. Despite the doubts of others, Katheryn's faith in her vision empowered her to design a life that balances family and a thriving career. Our conversation touches on the powerful concept of “enabling and providing opportunities” and how this shaped her approach to business and parenting. Key Highlights: Strategies for building a funnel agency and scaling to a full-fledged business. Finding clients who are in need and effectively communicating your value to them. How to leverage funnel hacking and design hacking to create high-converting funnels. The journey from basic funnel design to advanced optimization and agency building. Insights into balancing entrepreneurship with personal and family life. Whether you're a budding funnel builder or looking to elevate your skills, this episode is packed with insights to help you turn your passion for funnels into a profitable venture. Join us and discover the opportunities that await in the funnel-building world! And if you want to enjoy the Marketing Secrets Show ad-free, check out https://marketingsecrets.com/adfree Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Product availability varies by region. See app for details. What's up everybody, this is Russell. Welcome back to the podcast formerly known as the Marketing Seekers Podcast. Now probably going to be shifting to the Selling Online Podcast. I don't know if I've updated it by time you listen to this episode, but that's one of my evil plans. So anyway, working on that rebrand right now of the show, but I want to welcome you guys on the show today. Today we're going to be talking about one of my favorite topics wrapped in a really cool rapper.

Obviously, you know my favorite thing in this world besides my wife and kids and wrestling and sushi. This beats sushi for sure. My favorite thing is sales funnels. Today we're gonna talk about selling sales funnels. How can you become a funnel builder and actually get paid as a career building funnels for other people. And the last couple of days,

we've actually been doing a challenge here inside the ClickFunnels office called the Sell sales funnels challenge Which has been so much fun and have had Catherine Jones Lish up here Who is someone who came through one of our very first certification programs back in the day? She learned how to sell sales funnels made a huge career out of it And then since then we decided to partner up with her program and our program to make something insane in this podcast Episodes gonna be giving you guys some of the core beats of what we talked about during this challenge

But hopefully you guys introduced you guys to a really cool opportunity, which is the fact that you can make a career out of building sales funnels for other people. It's gonna be a lot of fun. So that said, let's jump into the podcast and hang out with Catherine Jones Lish. In the last decade,

I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars of my own products and services online. This show's gonna show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Seekers podcast. All right, so today you guys,

I'm excited to be here with Katherine Jones-Lish, which now we've added a new last name. Can you believe it? Your girl got married. I know, no one thought it could happen. Myself included. God is good. Congratulations. Thank you. It's been a couple years now, this is old news. Yeah, you've got a baby now too. I know no one thought it could happen Congratulations, thank you. It's been a couple years now. This is old news. Yeah, you got a baby now, too I do in fact have a baby

Alright, well, let's jump. Sorry a lot of people just jumped on podcasts. They don't know we're even talking about right now So I'm gonna take a step back. So I'm excited to be hanging out with Katherine today and she's someone who When did you first come into the click funnels ecosystem our our world? I don't even know exactly what year it was. It was 2015. 2015, okay. So it's been a little bit. Yeah, 2015, maybe 2016. I was like just learning about like making money online. I was using lead pages, forgive me.

I didn't know. Wow, you put them out of business. I know, yeah. I know you seriously did, but that's what I was using for anybody listening. And I, you know, when you're like in that phase of business where you're like, I don't know what I'm doing, so I'm doing everything and I'm on every webinar that's ever existed So I was on a public speaking webinar and it was at the very end and it was a Q&A and somebody in the chat Asked what software did you use to book say pitch the product?

Yeah, what software did you use to build your order form page and just like on a one-off the guy was like Oh, he's click funnels and he just like went on and I was like click what? Yeah, and I just like I'd never heard about it So I just like googled it or so I just like looked it up and then of course you know you're retargeting me I got like an email for your.com secrets book read the book cried in my college dorm room cuz I was like finally this all makes sense to me and then you know one thing after another it's like amazing anybody that's following you it's like you tell us what

you're doing to sell us and we even know what's happening when it's happening and you're like dang it you're like here's my money I even know what you're doing it's not even like mind tricks you're like crap anyway so it started with the book and then i've gone through all your programs and anyway now we're partnering and doing fun stuff now yeah it's so cool um so we're going to talk about this podcast and by the way for those who are going to be hearing in i'm going to be two episodes with captain today she's here in boise because we just finished a challenge together called the sell sells funnels. So sell SELL and sales SELES funnels. The sell sell funnels challenge about selling sells funnels because there's so many opportunities in the funnel world, right? There's you can

be a funnel, you can be a copywriter, you can build your own funds, you can do e-commerce or info product, all sorts of stuff. But one of the coolest, I think, opportunities that's out there that most people don't even know about is the fact that you can sell funnels as a living, you can build funnels and sell them and you can make this. And so for you, one of the first things, I mean, you did other things, but one of the things that you did initially was actually start building funnels

for other people and doing stuff like that. I love to hear just the transition from you learning about funnels to, I don't know if there's a moment or a ha of like, I could actually do this for people and get paid and this could be a career for me. Yeah, so honestly like how the whole thing started, I like never envisioned myself as an entrepreneur. I was just in college and I kind of bounced around majors,

but they're all art majors. I was like a piano performance major and then I was a film major, like I just bouncing around and, and then I went and served a mission for my church. I served in LA and I served in like kind of ritzy areas, like Beverly Hills, Bel Air, and then like in Compton and Watts. And I remember, yeah, exactly. And I remember coming home and like, as a true millennial, I'm like, I'm almost embarrassed to say this. I'm like, so contributing to the stereotype, but I just came home and I was like, I don't

know what I want to do, but I just want to help people, you know? Um, And I didn't know what that meant, but I knew that it would be easier to help people if I had money. So I came back and went to my university and I was like, hey, I want to switch my degree to business. And they were like, you have way too many credits. Like, you got to get out. You know, you got to finish your major. And it ended up again, like just being the best thing that ever happened to me because

I was like, well, I guess I got to figure out by myself. I didn't know what that meant. So I started reading like investing books and personal finance books. And you know, like one of my favorite guys is Rameet. As I say, yeah, one of my favorite authors ever is his name is Rameet Sethi. He writes like personal finance. He's got a Netflix series. He has a Netflix series and he's just like a step by step guy for me.

I was just like, he's like, number one, put your money here. Number two. I was like, thank you. Like, find something to tell you. It's called How to Get Rich, right? Yeah, I want you to be rich. Great book. Recommend 10 out of 10 to everyone.

He's like, so awesome. Anyway, and so and then, you know Or something like that. Yeah, I want you to be rich. Great book. Recommend. 10 out of 10 to everyone. He's like so awesome. Anyway, and so, and then you know, you like start getting in all this stuff. I'm starting getting ads and it kind of like bleeds into personal development, which bleeds into internet marketing, you know, like all the ads. And I didn't know what was happening. I remember seriously being like, I'm like getting emails.

I'm like, how are these people getting my email? And the thing that's crazy is I had to have put it in somewhere, you know? I just like, I didn't understand how it worked. I was like, this is, or like, I'd like search for something. Then I get an ad. I'd be like, that's not enough. How did they know? I didn't know. I didn. I was like this is or like I'd like search for something then I get an ad I'd be like that's no, no I didn't know about like pixels and we're talking anyway, but one thing led to another I'm like I'm they're like people are offering me courses and and again, I'm just like I gotta make money I just like gotta figure out how to make money and

Another one of the big polls like one of the reasons why my soul just like kind of lit on fire when I found Internet marketing was at the same time. So I grew up as the second oldest of eight. And so yeah, so my mom was pregnant for all the nineties. So God bless her. What a queen. She's awesome. But I loved it. I didn't know anything different, but I just truly like somehow my parents are so cool.

We ended up all being friends was amazing. So I always knew that I wanted to be a parent. But I also knew I felt this thing inside my soul that wouldn't go away. I wanted to take over the world. I wanted to help and serve and contribute and grow. So I knew that I wanted to have impact outside of my home, but I also knew I wanted to be a really present parent. And just logistics-wise, I didn't know how it looked like until I discovered the internet.

I was like, oh my gosh. So I discovered internet marketing, and that's one of the big reasons why I cried when I read your book, because it wasn't like, yeah, you're a marketer. I'm so emotional. It was like, oh my gosh, like if I'm not an idiot about how I build this thing, like maybe I actually could simultaneously, like I said, like having impact inside and outside of my house. And so anyway, so again, I didn't know exactly what form that looked like. I'm on all these different things. I'm like launching courses. And like, I didn't even know, I don't even have skills, right? But I was like, I don't know. So the first course that I launched it was to young adults on social skills Which you can you guys can all judge whether or not

Selling that I don't know. I was like, I don't any I don't know anything. I was like course on social skills Yeah, like so like and like how not to be awkward and like it I just I didn't know I was like but I have to like Practice I have to like try and I sold the course for like 127 bucks I think I made six sales it was I didn't I spent more on like software isn't learning and courses to do it but like I got in you know I got in the game and anyway so then I discovered funnels and which I was just it was just so systematic to my brain who just craves you know order and structure and I was just like crap that just makes so much sense to me.

You just put things in an order. It's like a step-by-step process, a step-by-step series of web pages. And so I started to do it for myself, and then all of a sudden I realized I could do it for other people. And then I discovered you had a certification program. I actually was working for my dad at the time. So my dad was an entrepreneur as well. My grandpa was a huge entrepreneur, and then my dad bought entrepreneur as well. And my grandpa was like a huge entrepreneur

and my dad bought his company and so that I was working anyway, like this whole family of entrepreneurs. I love it. I love it. But yeah, but my grandpa was like an entrepreneur in like the 60s and 70s. So like totally different game. But I learned about this program. So I told my dad, I was like, dad, you got to read this book, right? So I like got it on on that. And so I also got my dad on Rameet. So we always whenever we'd have a business question, we'd always be like, what would father Rameet and uncle Russell do? We'd like always like, that's what we do. So my dad, like we'd have a random present.

He's like, what does uncle Russell think? I was like, I don't know, let me go check his book. Like we didn't know you, you know what I mean? Like it was like, like 10 years ago. But my dad, he was always like, like even today, I was like calling him last night. He's like, how's uncle Russell? I was like, he's doing great, dude.

Like love him, like he's so awesome. One of the funny stories, this is obviously, you know this, but I was at an airport somewhere. I don't know. Usually nowadays I get spotted at different places and stuff like, and some guy who's very tall, how tall is he? Six four. Yeah, way taller than me.

Walks up and like taps me on the shoulder and he's like, Hey, excuse me. I don't want to be awkward or weird, but my daughter's Catherine Jones or something. I was like, Oh, hey, randomly some air. I think we were at some random airport. So anyway, that's how I met your dad for real. Yeah. So we're so yeah. So the Jones family is fans of Uncle Russell. Anyway, so it was great.

And so then it was actually my dad that discovered the certification program, because of course, he got on all your email stuff and he was like, we need this for my business. I need this for all my other businesses. Like if I paid for you to do this, would you do it for us? And I was like, oh, I'm obsessed because I'm like working for him and I'm like doing my own us?" I was like, I'm obsessed because I'm working for him and I'm doing my own stuff. I was like, yes. So I do it and I end up building funnels for them, which was awesome.

At the same time, I was getting clients on the other side. It was awesome. I ended up finding two or three people that were ads people and they were really good at ads and they needed funnels. I would just build lead funnels. They just pay me 500 bucks a pop. Lead funnels are so easy. So after work, and I was good at design, so they look good, so they would pay me. And so after work and on the weekends,

I would just pound out however many leads came in. So anywhere from like one to 10 lead funnels a weekend, because they're so easy. You just like duplicate it, put it in, put on the right stuff. And so I would just like make all this money on the side. And I was like, oh, nice. And anyway, so that's kind of how I started. Then I started finding my own clients and it was awesome. But then people started asking me like, why do your funnels look so good? Like, whoa, what does this look like? And again, my system's brain turned it into a framework,

turned it into a course and everything from there. But that's how it started is I was just desperate to find a way to be like, can I build a business that allows me the flexibility, the actual monetary gain, the influence to have impact inside and outside my house. It's always fascinated me how people come to our world because there's so many different ways.

It's like for you is dot com secrets and funnels. Some people it's like they read expert secrets and they that's like that's their calling or everyone's got different paths in. It's always fun to see that you told a story. The very first fun I can live you spoke at you told a story I love for you to share it because it's probably a little vulnerable, not as much nowadays, but a lot of people when they get started in entrepreneurship, the people that are closest to them, the most important usually are the ones who reject it, right? It could be a spouse,

could be a family member, could be an ex-boyfriend, could be whatever, but I know you went through that and you tell a part of the story because I think hopefully it'll help other people who hit that. I see so many people who are entrepreneurial, who fill that call to contribution, but then there's someone around them who kind of knocks them off the path. And a lot of times they don't come back from it. And you did, which is interesting. Oh my gosh.

Yeah, with many stumbles. Yeah, so yeah, here I am. I'm in college, right? And I'm like, I cannot explain to you how X among the O's I was. Like literally, yeah, it was just so crazy. And so yeah, I can't, I cannot explain to you how X among the O's I was. Like literally, I, yeah, it was just so crazy. And so yeah, I'm like working, but like I'm staying up late. My friends are asking me to go out.

I'm like, sorry, gotta watch a webinar, you know? Like I was, yeah, anyway, I was just living such a different life, but I ended up meeting this boy and you know, when you meet someone you're like, thank, like, thank you. Like, you're so easy to talk to. He was like, we're so charismatic. He was really kind. He was just like, he was a good boy. Anyway, and so we dated for eight, nine, 10 months and we started talking about getting married. And I can't tell you how happy I was. Like, I don't know if you've been dating someone, someone starts talking about that and you're like,

oh, I love and honestly may just you. But we started talking about it. I was like, yes, it felt so good. It felt so awesome. And so it was just really fun and exciting. And then in our second or third conversation about it, he said to me, he's like, Catherine, like, I got to bring something up to you about getting married. And I'm like, what is, you know, like, I'm thinking he's like venue, you know, like, there's my honeymoon. And I was like, yeah, what, like, what is it? And he looked at me and he's like, I doubt your ability to mother because of your business aspirations.

And I was like, what? And at this point, I discovered Funnels. I actually was on my own at this point. I wasn't working for my dad anymore. So I was on my own doing a full-fledged thing, full-fledged agency. I just launched a bestselling book and it was kind of like the first time I was like, I'm doing this. Like, this is happening.

Yeah, like I'm in. And so he, we were kind of dating at like kind of my first rise, you might say from like, I don't know what I'm doing to like, I'm actually making a full-time income. And so he repeated, he's like, yeah, I doubt your ability to mother because of all of your business aspirations. And he said that to me, and I couldn't understand it. I was like, what do you mean? And he's just like, if we're going to do this, you got to be home. That's how I want to, that's, that's how I want to raise my kids. That's how I want to raise my family.

And like all credit to him, like his mom was gone all growing up. She was a nurse and she worked and his dad left them. So like, I get it. Like I, I, I get where he came from. And, but the way that he expressed it was like, you're done. It's over. Like you don't get a choice. Like you're at home.

And for me, the way that that felt was like, you're never going to expand. You're never going to grow. You don't get a choice like you're at home and for me the way that that felt was like you're never gonna expand You're never gonna grow you don't get to develop as a human and that doesn't mean that you don't do it with parenting I think it's like almost exponential or more, but it was just this fact that he was like I'm deciding your life and and that somehow business became evil like me trying to serve and contribute and make money like It got painted in this, like you're doing a bad, wrong thing. You should not want that. Like you're not pursuing, like the way you phrased it,

it was like, you're not pursuing the path of God because you should just want to be with your kids, you know? And it just like, it was so crazy because I was like, I'm going to marry this kid. And to have somebody that I loved and trusted, I'd like opened my heart to him in that way. I was like, oh, he doesn't get it. Like he doesn't understand or see the situation. I understand because the whole reason I got into this was again, like impact inside and outside my home. Like I felt the

calling to do both. And anyway, needless to say, like it just, we couldn't ever get on, he couldn't see how I saw it and I could not see how he saw it. And it just like, it ended up not working out. And I like genuinely was depressed for like six months like I'm usually like a get back up on the horse kind of girl and I could not get back up on the horse I was just like and I think so much of it was because it was like so identity crushing for me where I really did question like am I doing the wrong thing and so much of that was because I had never seen anybody do what I was trying to do like and I know that like sounds so crazy because there are like a ton of female entrepreneurs like a lot of them

And again, I'm not saying anybody's path is wrong. I think everybody's path is the smartest again It's their best educated guess they're like doing they're supposed to do but the way I wanted to do it Was like can I build systems so that like a nanny isn't raising my kid? But me and my husband are raising our children and and I'm not like not married I'm kids this one, but I just like felt it in my soul so much But I started to question like am I wrong for wanting this? Is that bad of me? And it's so interesting because I think that men and women both think about this differently. I think just based on the Industrial Revolution and so many things like gender roles, I've just become what they've

become. And I think there's actually a lot of beauty in them, but I also think that they're not set, you know? And so like, it was really interesting. I just felt like I wanna make sure that I contribute. I wanna make sure I contribute in, and I want a husband that actually wants the same too. Like, I want a husband that wants to be with our kids, you know, that like doesn't just get to see them at these times and these times.

I mean, I'm not saying anybody's path is wrong. It was just what I wanted, but I really started to question whether it was. And so I just am like diving into like any material I can find about parenting. Cause I started to think like, am I seeing this wrong? Like, am I being selfish for that? Am I like seeing this the wrong way?

Am I seeing business wrong? Am I seeing parenting the wrong way? Like, is it possible to do both? So I'm diving into like any parenting book from like New York Times bestsellers to like the good word, you know, everything between and what I found like the theme over and over and over again was that the ultimate role of a parent is to nurture. And do you know what the definition of nurture is? It's to enable and to provide opportunity. And I remember when I learned that definition, I was like, well, what in

the world is entrepreneurship then? Enabling and providing opportunity. That is exactly what you're doing. That's exactly what I'm doing. And so I thought once I understood that, I was like, okay, old boyfriend, sit down, you know, because I was like, then I could see that the that me being an entrepreneur, which was enabling and providing opportunity was only refining myself for what I was doing inside the home, which was enabling and providing opportunity.

And that what I was doing inside the home would one day sharpen what I was doing outside and outside and inside. And so, and also I was just like, it's actually just the same game. It's just like, where are you putting your focus? And once I learned that, then also I was like, it makes sense that my soul is like yearning

to like enable and provide opportunity for my children and for others. It wasn't like, oh, I wanna be a business owner and I wanna be a mom. I was like, I'm just actually looking at this all the wrong way. What I want to do is do what I think we've been divinely programmed to do.

God is the creator of this earth, right? We learned Genesis 1, that the first thing he teaches us is I, God, am your father, and so I made you, and I made the earth. Like I'm a creator, I'm a creator. I enable, I provide opportunity. And so I think as his children, right, enable, provide opportunity. And it just like made so much clarity for me so that when I found people that encountered

me or my path of life, whether it was someone I was dating or a culture mate or a family member or whatever, it like, it was just okay. It was just like, I felt grateful. I felt like God led me to truths that like in my mind and heart, like it made sense to me. It felt right in my heart. I prayed about it. I was like, that is true. That is I think why I feel called to do all these things. And if you see it differently, that's just also okay too. And I'm like here to believe that like, God might've called you to live a different life. And that's only rad that you're following that. But for me, it just really took me to understand it.

What it took me to was getting to the depth of the question is why am I trying to do what I'm trying to do? Like, why am I so obsessed with being on these webinars? Why am I so obsessed with trying to learn how to make money online? Like, and it made me kind of like that is the game. Like what's the balance in terms of where I put my focus? But that is the skill set. Like that's what I'm doing. And hopefully on this podcast, hopefully when I see my baby in an hour, right? Like how can I enable Lucy and provide opportunity for Lucy in the next four and a half hours before she goes to bed? That's my job.

And then while I'm on this podcast, how can I enable and provide opportunity for everybody that listens to this? That's my job right now. Anyway, so yeah, so I think it is just brutal when people don't have the same eyesight as you. But I also think it's a gift because it forces you to say, well, why do I see things so differently than you? And am I wrong in that? Or do we just have different views? And it's just okay. Yeah, I think God's made a lot of people a lot of different things. And it's like it's like for each of us is important to find Like what we're specifically called to do, you know and how it works It's my story is not nearly as cool as yours but I kind of a similar experience where

I'd run my business for like, I don't know 15 years and I always in like there's business and then there's like The spiritual things in life and they are separate and I had a big divider I had a really good coach and she one time, I can't remember what the conversation, I just remember she was like, you don't see it, right? I'm like, see what? She's like, the thing that you built, that is your calling from God.

I was like, what are you talking about? God doesn't care if I make money or if I help people make money. She's like, and she was one of our clients. So she's like, you understand? She's like, yes, you helped me make money, but she's like, do you realize what you actually gave my husband and I? My question is like, we were in bondage and you came in,

you showed us how to make money, which freed us. And now because that we go on mission trips, we serve people, we serve our church, we're able to donate money, all these things, because you like freed the shackles of this. And she's like, this is the calling God has given you to do this to these two people, to you, to us. So you changed our life because of that. And I was like, I never even in my mind considered that they were together. And our life because of that. And I was like, I never even in my mind considered that they were together. And for me, as soon as I realized, I was like, I believe now that like, what I'm doing,

I believe what you're doing, I believe it is a calling from God, like if you feel that call to contribution, that's what Sharpen calls it, Alex Sharpen is like, this call to contribution. I love the way he says it, it's like if you feel that call to contribution, like that is God putting these things in your heart, like to pull you towards something, right?

That call. And even though it doesn't make sense, it's like your role in his whole grand scheme of things is to do this piece, right? And it opens up doors for other people. So thanks for sharing that. I was not in the direction I was planning on going, but I think it's valuable for everybody listening.

Hang in there. Specifically, yeah. Okay. Awesome. What's up everybody? This is Russell Brunson. I've got something really cool for you today from my friend Taylor Wells. Taylor spoke at our last Funnel Hacking Live because I wanted him to share a really cool concept about what he calls the revolving pricing method. And today he decided to sponsor a podcast to give you guys more access to this super

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at quints.com slash clicks. So let's get into, again, we talked about funnel building as an opportunity and as a career. Because I think this is the thing that, obviously what we've done in the last three days here, we've been doing this selling, sells, funnels challenge to help show that to people that this is the thing that obviously what we've done in the last three days here, we've been doing this Selling Sells Funnels Challenge to help show that to people that this is a real thing that they can do, that it can become a career for them.

I think that people hear about that, some people get excited and some people get nervous and like how does this actually work and there's all this fear, but I would love to kind of go through the, almost like the levels of it. With you when you first, the program I first became familiar with you, you had, like, you know, like, what's that first level look like for them to be able to start an actual business doing this for other people? Yeah, that's what I love about this. I called a game of like building and selling funnels is that there are levels to it.

So there's some things like brain surgery. They're not levels like like if you only know like part one through two, you should not operate on somebody's brain, right? But that's a beautiful thing about funnels is that it actually really is broken up. So if you only have mastered kind of this first skill, you can still monetize it and then you can master another skill monetize it. And so what I learned really easy again, my like framework brain, like, because what a funnel is, if anybody doesn't know, right, it's just like a series of web pages strung together and it acts as a 24 seven salesperson for you. And so again, they're just like baby stepping, holding the hand of somebody through

the sale. And so what you want to do as a funnel builder is like figure out like, okay, well, what do I need to put on page one to get them to buy? And then what do I need to get on page two to get them to upsell? What do I need on three? Blah, blah, blah. And so my systematic brain was like, okay, well, what's the patterns in this? And ultimately, like what a funnel all comes down to is you need to have a strategy. And then, so like what actual pages am I putting together?

Almost like an instruction sheet. And then you need to have the assets. So like, what are the words? Like, what actually am I actually gonna type on the pages? Do I need a video on there? Do I need images so you need all like the materials and then you actually need to assemble them all together like design I always say like building a funnels like IKEA furniture like you need a set of instructions and you need all the Misassembled pieces like video ads or like screws and and wood and then you actually like need to put it together so it looks into something good and

And I think for so long the skill was taught of like you need to be a master at strategy and you need to put it together so it looks into something good. And I think for so long the skill was taught of like you need to be a master at strategy and you need to be a master at assets and a master at design. Which is hard to do. Oh well it just takes a while like it just takes a second right? And especially if you're like doing it on your own right and don't have you as a coach but like it can just take a second and people are like yeah but like maybe it's not but I always like to go back to IKEA, like seriously imagine that somebody comes to you and is like, hey, like, design a set of furniture from scratch. And

then like, I not only want you to like build out the instructions, right to do it, but I want you to like somehow cut the wood in a way that can like get them together and then go build it. Like I'm like, I don't even know. Right. But if somebody handed me a piece of IKEA furniture in a box with instructions, they would like, yeah, they bought it. They showed up the house like, and they're like, Catherine put this together.

I don't need, I really don't need that much skill to do it. And that's actually the beauty of funnel building is like, it's such an easy to entry market because most funnel, because there's opportunity like that with the design game. So a lot of people, like you're doing a ton of the educational work yourself to like get people on board. This is what a funnel is your business. needs a funnel, funnel, funnel, funnel. So people go and build a funnel and they realize they don't know how to build a funnel and they also really don't care to build a funnel.

They're like, oh, like I want to sell online dance classes like to couples and they're like I could care less about learning marketing. I just want to find clients to sell my actual thing to. So they went through and tried to build a funnel. So they got a strategy. They like figured out some sort of strategy. They have like a video. They have even words, right? But like they put it together all in the wrong order on the like, it's not optimized. Exactly. So what is so awesome is that there's so many people out there who have step one and two pretty locked down. And oftentimes they can do that because they are an expert in their actual craft, right? Like I know how to talk about ballroom dancing for couples because I've been teaching ballroom dancing for couples for 20 years, right? Like they know how to talk about ballroom dancing for couples because I've been teaching ballroom dancing for couples for 20 years

Right like they know how to talk about so they have They're pretty close on the strategy if they haven't nailed it already And then they they're really good at their assets But like they go to actually build it in the software and they like either logistically don't know how to use the software or they Build in it's ugly or the actions about what you know saying so ugly so like people in case you're running There's a study from Stanford and Google people determine the credibility of your website in 0.05 seconds and over 90% of what you're judging is your design So you could have the most incredible offer in the world But if people don't stay on your site long enough to actually see what you're selling it you lost the game

So not only does your site need to look good. It needs to be optimized as well It's like it's one thing to have it look good But it needs to look good in the way that people want it to look good. Like a funnel that's selling the ballroom dances, ballroom dances for couples should be designed differently than if you're selling a fitness program for mom, then should be designed differently if you're selling a fitness program for college boys. Like just think about how different a fitness page for mom

and a fitness page for college boys, they should look different. The design should be different. Anyway, and so, but that's what I love is that like the market, like there's so there's such high demand for this skill because every funnel, every product need, every product needs a funnel.

But there's also such demand for this lowest like, lowest hanging fruit of just funnel design work. Because a lot of people have tried themselves to build a website to build a funnel and like it's not making money. They have the assets they know what they want to do. They know they want a funnel, and like, it's not making money. They have the assets, they know what they want to do. They know they want a funnel, but they like can't get it. And that's where I think this like really low hanging through a funnel design, the skill that doesn't take long

to learn if you know the right way to do it is so amazing because you don't have to reinvent the wheel, you just go build IKEA furniture. It's like, oh, you put together the bookshelf wrong, let's unscrew the bolts and make sure we put it in the right order and there you go, your bookshelf or funnel actually works now. So a lot of people might be hearing this stuff,

but that's great, Catherine, but I'm not a designer. And I think about this, like, when I launched ClickFunnels initially, I'm like, how do I, because for me it was tough, because I'm like, there's a dozen different ways to do funnels or more, right? But there's a bunch of things, I'm like, how do I, I can't teach somebody, here's 12 ways to build a funnel, and they hope they're gonna figure it out,

understand it, and like, you know, and so for me, it was like, how do I, I can't teach somebody, here's 12 ways to build a funnel and I hope they're gonna figure it out, understand it and like, you know, and so for me it was like, the concept I came out was like funnel hacking. So find a funnel you like, you want to sell an ebook, find some sell an ebook and then funnel hack it, right? Buy all the pages and that's the strategy, just model their strategy. That's why I was trying to like show people,

or you wanna launch a book, or you wanna launch a webinar, like go and like funnel hack someone, look at the strategy, that gives you the blueprint, you have the strategy and then you can go build it. And then, so I called it the funnel hacking obviously, when you came with yours, you called it design hacking. So for someone who's not a designer,

how do they use design hacking to be able to quickly like, oh, I'm gonna build, like to know what to build and actually assemble the thing correctly versus like just making another worse version with the person already tried. Yeah, well, and maybe if I can rewind the story really quickly, like I was saying, like I was just making lead funnels like all the time. But at the beginning, they weren't

actually converting. And it was because they were so ugly, like they just really were. And that's when I came across that study that was people determine the credibility. And I was like, dang it, you know, like, and I honestly was embarrassed. I was like, that's not a little good. I don't know what my name is associated with that. So I go to go figure out like, how do I design? And everybody was like like go back to design school, go learn Photoshop, you need to learn coding. And I never want it like actually is comical to me that I have made the name for myself in the funnel space as a design girl because I'm not a design girl.

I just wanted my crap to work. Like I'm just like, I'm just trying to have impact inside my home and outside my home. I'm trying to build a business. I have kids one day and like dang it, you know. And so everyone's telling me to go learn all this design and I was just too stubborn to do it. And so I was like, there's got to be a way to not do that. And so that's kind of what led me to this hacking idea, I'd been introduced to it by you. And hacking just means modeling, like find the patterns, and then model those in your own. And that's when I was like, I don't need to be a designer, what I actually need to do is just be really exceptional

at finding the patterns that are working. And so for me, like it really is simple as comes down to like, okay, if I'm like building a funnel for the couple that's or for the person that sells ballroom dancing, right? Like I'm going to go online and I'm going to see, I'm going to go try to find other people that are either selling ballroom dancing or are selling like fitness classes over zoom or anything like any like live service over the internet, and just see what their funnels have. What patterns am I seeing with the fonts they're using?

What patterns am I seeing with the hero section? Do they have a big picture of the leader in the front? Do they have a huge headline? What is the color scheme? It's crazy. Sometimes there's some niches. Sometimes it's like, wow, yellow is the color. And like a dark yellow, you're like crazy.

Everyone's using yellow, but you're like, great. I mean, like- Must be reason to. Yeah. And that was one thing too, because is the color. And like a dark yellow, you're like crazy. Everyone's using yellow, but you're like, great. I mean, like, and it's, yeah. And, and that was one thing too, because I wasn't trying to be a designer. I just really wanted it to work that like, I didn't care in the beginning to be like, oh, well, like, how do I know that this works or blah, blah, blah? I just kind of assumed like, okay, if this person has money enough to do ad spend, which I know that they do because their pages are like ranking on Google or I'm seeing on Facebook, then like, they must know something more than me because I'm not paying for ads but at the

time right. So I'd be like great like they are steps ahead of me in their business. They're actually betting money on this page that it works because I can see it's sponsored on Google or a Facebook ad or whatever. So I'm going to trust those pages and use those as a model. And so that's just seriously what I did. Like I didn't try to be designer. I didn't try to be like okay let's come up with this like cool concept idea, which

I do. I do have to say like I meet designers and I'm like, I wish I had your skills, but I don't like anything that looks good that you've ever seen me produce, whether it's a funnel or slide deck or anything is literally like, like for these slides that I just did, I just literally went to your selling online event. I was like, okay, how do you do his pitch slide? I said, nice, love it. And I just like, okay, I like what is working? Go on, put it in there. Anyways, and so that's how it worked. And so it really is really interesting.

I even think with like the game of marketing, like sometimes I think marketing or I'm a marketer can feel like so magic almost. And it's really just an organization problem. Marketing is all organization. Like, can you get the right pieces in the right place? And so for this term, like funnel hacking, which is finding the patterns and modeling or design,

finding the design patterns and modeling, it's just organizing. hacking, which is finding the patterns and modeling or design finding the design patterns and modeling It's just organizing like can I find the patterns and can I put those patterns in the same place and my stuff and move on? And so and so in that way we're I was able to you know, quote-unquote hack the design system And that's how and that's how it started. And so I think for anybody like I'm not a designer Welcome to the club Yeah, I remember we first launched ClickFunnels, I was trying to figure out a way to promote it. And so I remember Lewis Howes at the time,

he had hired Digital Telephony to do his landing page. I know that because I bought a company from Digital Telephony. So they're an amazing designing team, like insane. And they charge, we tried to hire them one time, they charge for like a blog design. It was like, I think it was like $70,000 for a site or if you wanted a full branding package, $150,000. And Lewis had paid it.

And so I remember one of my first things I did when we were launching ClickFunnels, it was like, hey, check out, here's Lewis's $75,000 site design. I'm gonna show you guys so I can build it. I opened my monitor, left-hand side, I had Lewis's, right-hand side, ClickFunnels, and I literally just went element by element and I just like design

hacked right. I'm like okay took his logo put it right here color background and I did it within like 15 minutes I'd replicated his $75,000 funnel design and it was insane. It looked amazing. It was look like you wouldn't have been able to tell that which one was Lewis's which one's mine right and like that's what you're talking about like you can go and find the greatest designers in the world. You're looking what they do and then you're modeling them, right? Yeah. And that's the thing that I always find amazing too

and with design hacking, right? Is like, we're actually not trying to be good designers. What we're trying to do is model or design in a way that converts. So sometimes like I'll go through the process and I have to check myself. Like it's so interesting even like, so we did this selling funnels challenge

and then we have a certification program, right, that like teaches people how to do it. And when I was doing the training for the certification program, I was doing it, I like made a funnel for one of my neighbors, because I was like brand new, but it's like, let's see. And one of my neighbors who's trying to sell like her online coaching services.

So I literally go and I like show everybody like, here's how you find the funnels that are working, like here's how you know the funnels to, or the pages to actually take patterns from. So I'm taking patterns from it, I'm like writing it all down and then I start to design it and I was like I don't like how that looks I'm gonna tweak it and then I like even so I was like actually it doesn't matter what I think looks good it's what the market decided and so I'd like go back and I'd be like okay great learning

but it's like amazing because sometimes we catch ourselves like I don't like how that looks and there's a difference between like oh I'm designing for things to look pretty, because who cares if your thing looks pretty if it doesn't make you any money. So it's really interesting. Like, like sometimes you'll see like in the supplement world, I'm like, especially sound old, I shouldn't say older people, people that are older than me, 60. I know, literally, oh my gosh. But if you're selling to older people, like

if you have a really sleek design, it's really interesting. It converts worse because it's overwhelming. Whereas if you have like a website that kind of looks like it's from the early 2000s, it's, and it, to me, it like hurts me, like, because I'm like, ah, it's so ugly. But I think that's the beautiful thing about this concept of funnel hacking or design hacking is you're just, if the true objective at the end of the day is cash flow and sales. And so what you want to do is just find the patterns and you kind of have to put aside what you care about, how it looks, because again, you're trying to optimize it for the avatar that's going to come through. It reminds me, my supplement for diabetic neuropathy, about the time we were launching ClickFunnels,

and we had the same thing, we made the sickest, coolest site and did not convert. And then we went in our avatar there older you know 70s 80s 90s years old and they didn't want to watch videos with this amazing best-sells videos ever we made and we shifted this long form thing with no images it looked like it was built in front page and crushed it's just like crazy like that's what they responded to but I you know me trying to be a designer and a funnel builder all stuff and I messed up till we reverted back to what that market and it came back to doing a little research and finding some things.

Yeah. But it goes back to, I think, this concept of like enabling and providing opportunity, which like you have to get yourself out of the way to be like, okay, like my main objective is to help somebody who's in pain to not be in pain. And what you have to do is you have to get the person in pain to actually listen to you. And so like if you're marketing to Gen Z's, you got to figure out how to get them to pay attention to you. If you're marketing to boomers, you got to figure out how to get them to listen to you. And, and, and I just think it's actually, it's just amazing. Like, I think to come into the game at this point, I mean, like you were one of the late stage pioneers of like this internet marketing, right? Where you kind of took us from like

Physical marketing right like like mail. I can't what's it called direct response I can't remember I don't even know I didn't do it to like internet marketing But that's what I just think we're so lucky because like you're never having to reinvent the wheel There's so many people out there that are doing it good that you can model it and there's also so many people out there doing It bad that you have so much opportunity like yes. It's so many people out there that are doing it good, that you can model it. And there's also so many people out there doing it bad, that you have so much opportunity. Like, yes, it's so awesome. You just have basic understanding. Yeah.

I wasn't at one thing, because a lot of people, whenever I talk about stuff, they're always like, well, how do you find these funnels? I don't even know where they're at. And so I'm gonna show them, I'm telling my secret. Maybe yours is similar. I love it.

But when I know, and right now we just built, at Funnel Hacking Live, you saw we launched a new plugin called Barnum PT, which is a free plug-in for funnel hacking You go from hack screenshots and pictures like I'm the process right now if I'm rebuilding my swipe house. I'm funnel hacking I'm buying everyone's project like but I'm trying to find different markets. So for me example, I was like, okay I want to I want to go see everyone's got a green drink offer So first thing is I grab my phone and I just start talking by it because everyone knows this is a thing now, right? Like so I was like green drink. I want a healthy by it. Because everyone knows this is a thing now, right? Like, so I was like, green drink.

I want a healthy green drink. I'm looking for some green drink. I want something that's gonna be healthy, red drink, green drink. And I started thinking, I just started talking to my phone and all of a sudden ads start showing up. And then I go to Facebook and I start searching for how much things.

And I go to Google, I search, go to Instagram, I search. And then I just, I'm done. And over the next two weeks, I'm gonna get hit with 500,000. Ad, emails. And they pop up, I click on every single ad, go to the page, open up bar and PT, screenshot, screenshot, every single page of the funnel, right? If I wanted to do baby diapers,

I would go and I would start having the same baby diapers. And like, I save my ex by phone, type it four or five places, and then I sit back and they just all start coming to you. Is this similar for you? Yeah, I just Google search as if I am the person trying to buy the product. And so like same thing. Yes, exactly. And so you go and I click on everything and I do it and then I bet what I love

About what your processes to is is oftentimes like you get the best sample size if you wait for a few days Because people are gonna retarget you people are gonna do this We're just talking with our friend Greg who does the program with us He's like I click on every single ad and in my Instagram I have like folders for like, these are great internet marketing ads and these are great this and this is amazing funnel. It's like so cool but it just really is amazing.

If you understand the process for how to find the highest converting items to incorporate into your funnels, when you understand how it works, it's just there. You just get to actually just take it and put it into your own. And you start clicking on those things, then Facebook and Instagram, the algorithm will get trained and they're like,

oh, this person's looking at that stuff and then all the other companies you couldn't find just start showing it magically. And it is amazing. A fascinating thing, I don't know if you've ever done this, but one time I grabbed my wife's phone, I thought it was mine, I opened it up, and I opened it up Facebook,

and I was like in this whole new world, this whole new land. Oh yeah. I was like, what is this? And I was like, oh, this is what Facebook looks like for my wife, because she's searching for way different things in the world. And I was like, this is a is what Facebook looks like for my wife, because she's searching for way different things. And I was like, this is a whole different experience. It was so cool. Cause I saw all these other funnels that never even knew existed.

Right? Yeah. Well, like my parents, so my Gen Z, my Gen Z siblings, they're all about TikTok, but my parents are also on TikTok. I love it. But they also will be like, oh yeah. Like they'll always be like, you're on the wrong side of TikTok. Cause my mom is on TikTok for gardening videos, crochet videos. She has workout like, like a stay flexible videos, right? Because she's just turned 60 this year, like how to keep your mobility. My dad is like so funny, he loves like back cracking videos and but he also loves like Napoleon Hill stuff and like business stuff. And then my Gen Z siblings are like Ariana Grande, you know, like Taylor's not even as far as two millennial. I don't even know what they're listening to. But like, it's so interesting when it's called like, oh, you're on the other side of TikTok.

And in one way, it's actually amazing that the algorithm just conforms to what you want. In some ways, I think there can be some negative side effects to that in the world. But from a marketing standpoint, it is awesome because you basically have, it's a search engine tool specifically for products that are marketing. And so you're like, oh, again, if they have money to run ads, they probably got, it's not nothing happening, you know, and so it's an amazing thing to model.

So cool. All right, so that's tier number one. So tier number one, somebody learns the basics of design, how to find those things, look for the things, and then now they can go and start getting clients selling design. So what are the price points, if someone's just doing the design,

what could they sell the design services for? Totally. It's usually anywhere from three to four figures per build. And typically the way that I have people do it, because again, you're not building the strategy, you're not like building assets, it's literally like reorganization. Is typically it's just like a flat rate per page.

And so the more you build and the more you have like a portfolio to show, the higher you can do it. And so like, I would say, I would say like on average, once people are kind of getting into it, you're making anywhere from two grand to five to six grand per build, right? Like, cool, awesome. Because again, you're taking all their stuff, redesigning,

taking all their stuff, redesigning, taking all their stuff, redesigning it. And so some people seriously like, I mean, before we joined forces, that was all they ever told people how to do was like design and they built this full on business. They didn't even like have to read your books, which I always told them to, don't worry.

But they didn't even have to, right? Because like we're not focusing on strategy. We're not focused on- Yeah, the person's coming to them, I need a book funnel, I tried, it's not working. You're like, cool, let me fix it. Or I'm trying to do a webinar funnel, it's not working. Yeah.

As opposed to like, what should I build? Right? Yeah, exactly. Because yeah, because they would come to them and the target audience would always be like, I know exactly what I'm trying to build. I know exactly what product I'm trying to build, blah, blah, blah. Whereas when you start to go to this next level, which is hey, I'm going to get really good at strategy, which is essentially again, thinking of IKEA, I'm like really good at figuring out which funnel you need. So somebody comes to you and they're like, I want to sell, like I'm an online, I will just keep going to this example, right? I teach bottom dancing to couples and I want to take it online. And most times that's like all somebody knows. They have no idea what

a funnel is or if they do, they don't know which funnel type to build. That's when you can come in and when you start to know strategy, then you can start to charge a lot higher dollar because then you also know how to start creating their assets. You know how to start building their copy. You know what video scripts to make them. Like it becomes really, really exciting. And so at that point when you master that you go from three to four figures per build to four to five figures per build. Because again, and some people I think money is always tricky for people. Everybody comes with money baggage, good, bad, and ugly, you know.

And sometimes Sally can feel really hard and all these different things. But the thing that I love and why I don't feel any hesitancy in charging people multiple five figures for a funnel build for me now is because I do understand strategy. I do understand asset creation. I'm really good at design. So I know that what I'm building them is not just like, oh, here's some web pages that will never do anything. It's, oh, I just built you a selling machine. I built you something that's going to make you money. And when you can build something that makes people money, you can always charge people money. Like you always have a skillset that people will pay money for.

So really like phase one, and what's so amazing about this is again, is like the road to entry is just so easy. You can start making money by just designing, right? Getting things in the right places. And then when you are like, Oh, I want to start making higher dollar for this, learn the strategy, learn the assets, put it all together. You start making your custom furniture, right? And you can go from there and turn into a full blown career. And then this is something that I love too, because, because we were like, okay, then the game's over and it's like, Oh no, you only just began. Because then what you can do is you can optimize them because like a true funnel, right? Like if you have a funnel up, like the best funnels are living, breathing,

optimized, changing, right? Like you have 100 people go through or 500 people go through the funnel and like you should be smarter than when it started. And so you take what you learned like, oh, like, tweak, tweak, exactly. And then 500 people more go through and you tweak and 500. And so then you can start to charge even more in terms of like oh like you're you can pay me anywhere from a thousand to five thousand bucks a month to just like keep optimizing your funnel. There's a company we use uh off and on it's 25 grand a month and they just log into your ClickFunnels account and then they just tweak stuff they all the traffic's coming in and they sit and tweak stuff and tweak stuff and it's called called CRO excuse me it's called CRO

because it sounds fancy, conversion rate optimization. Yeah. And it's just, it's being a funnel builder who's just like, okay, let's test five different ideas today. Let's move the headline here, let's move the button, let's try different things. And like, you're tweaking to see what, what's the thing. And it's worth it for someone like me or someone who's getting a lot of traffic because, let's say I'm getting, let's say I'm getting a hundred thousand visitors a month to a site, right? I'm converting 3% of those. So I should have picked Neasher. What's the math in that? That's a hundred thousand, 3%, 3000.

Right? Sure. Yes. Or 300. Anyway, whatever that is, right? I go from a 3% conversion to a 5%. That seems like, oh, you increase a little bit. But we have that much volume. Yeah, it becomes like that could add

an extra million dollars a month to someone's bottom line. Like that's the reality. So someone will pay, again, $25,000 or more just to sit there and just tweak your page and just see what's gonna. Well, I remember I saw a training video of yours once and you actually showed like a Google spreadsheet of like a video that had,

yeah, a guy that somebody had sent you. And it was like, okay, like, here's like the 40 active tests we have right now. I was like, that's the hottest thing I've ever seen. I love that you have 40 funnels to test on, like active funnels. And that was like not even all of them, but you're like, okay, here's the test.

And he just like, and he had the rows highlighted, green, yellow or red. And it was like green if that test worked, yellow if it's like, like we need to run a little bit more traffic to decide, like it's still cooking. And then red is like, oh, that test didn't work. And it was so like amazing to me again,

like seeing the volume. And that's the thing too, like whether you have a hundred thousand visitors or even a thousand visitors, like it like, and it's so, so cool to be like, oh, I remember it was like such a small thing. It was like, oh, I remember it was such a small thing. It was like, oh, we increased the conversion to like a 6% to a 6.8. And then the next column on it was how much year revenue did that add?

And it was like $217,000 because it went from 6 to 6.8. I was like, dang, I freaking love this game. But it's just a game, right? And I think it can feel overwhelming. You're like, oh, tweet the headline, do this. It can feel like random and sporadic, but there's just like, there is patterns with design and patterns with assets and patterns with strategy. There's patterns with optimization or it's like, okay, we know that this is the first

thing we test. And then if that works, great. If it doesn't work, this is what we do next. Or if it works, great. Then we'll also see if the next thing works. The next thing works. But I love that. That's just what my soul loves about this game is that it like everything is a process

and it's just like start here move forward start here move forward start here troubleshoot move yard anyways that's what I love too because then you can start trading recurring and then if you love it right and you can get smart about it like knowing that funnels and the game is all broken up you're like oh I need strategy I need assets I need assets. I need designing, the optimization. I like, if you want to really blow it up, you can start to build an agency where rather than you wearing all those hats, you can be like, okay, like I actually hate the design part, I'm going to throw somebody on design. Awesome.

I hate the strategy part. We have a strong strategy, but I love copy or whatever. And then all of a sudden you can increase the amount of clients. And so that retainer just goes up and up and up. So you're not just making three to four figures a build, you're making three to four figures per month, per client, right? And it just actually becomes like a living,

breathing business. Yeah, it's really cool. And what's interesting is I've seen people who go to build an agency initially, they find those core people and they're running through client accounts and eventually they shift from like, I'm just gonna charge somebody to do this thing

to like, I want equity in a company. I showed a video of the challenge of Noah Lenz, who's a 14 year old kid who takes equity for every funnel he builds. There's equity there, right? And then later it's like, when you have your own ideas, your own project or things you want, then you can plug it into that same system.

That's what I love. I'm telling you what, like sometimes I can't believe it. I tell that I say this to my husband all the time, it's like, it is a crazy world we live in that like, I can just have an idea. Especially when you sell education products, like, because all education products are is somebody's figured out the pattern to something, and then you sell the pattern. Like, that's it, right? So like, I sell products on design, it's because I figured out the patterns, right? Like I sell products on like, partnership traffic,

it's because I figured out the patterns. But like, it's amazing. It's just like ideas that you have and you figure out the patterns, I can get results. And then it's just amazing. And I'm like, I can just film a video and like, it's almost like I'm like paint, like coloring a page online and then you make money. I'm like, it's crazy. It's amazing. But the thing that isn't me, it's not unethical.

It's just like, it really, it really is just like the ease right now of if you understand the game, taking product to market and then market to money in your bank account can be really fast. And the first time's always the hardest, right? But as soon as you get through it, I tell people the very first time they're building a funnel for themselves or someone else,

like you do the whole process, and then after you've done it once, oh, I know all the, the hardest funnel I've ever built was my potato gun funnel. Because I had to learn how to like, this back in the day, how do you set up a domain?

How do you point it to your web host? How do you do FTP? How do you do- I bet that was terrible. Cause I don't even like doing that now. Yeah. It was so many steps. It took me like six months just to figure out how to get an image online.

And then like, I kind of get front page to connect to this. It was like this huge thing and I finally got it. And I did all the work and I had to figure out how to write copy and how do you get images and how do you hook it to an order for me, right? All the things. It was a nightmare, right? Click phones order for me? All the things, it was a nightmare. ClickFunnels makes it way easier now, but then it was a nightmare. But since I did it once all the way and then I bought my first ads, my Google paper click,

pushed in my potato game DVD and it was working and then I was just like, oh, I know how to do it. And then next time I was like, okay, step in one, boom. And then second funnel took me like a week and the next funnel started getting really, really fast and so it's like just getting the process down once. I was gonna say one thing that we talked about, like initially usually it's you doing all these pieces, right, you're learning.

And then eventually you start building a team or agency. And I look at, when you said that, I was thinking about my company. Like ClickFunnels is just basically that. Like there's me, I like the strategy. So I'm like, oh, strategy, right? Underneath me then there's Morag. So I tell Morag, who's our project manager,

Morag, here's the strategy. He's like like, oh strategy, right underneath me. Then there's more acts I tell morag who's our project manager more. I here's the strategy say cool. She's got it and then she goes and we've got I think the best designer on the planet Jake Leslie Jake and he's got a team of three or four designers They go and they design the thing right and then Nick is my funnel builder He goes and connects all the things because again, Heath is my copywriter he goes and writes all the copy and then and then there's a couple of people like Like that's all we've done I've got I've got four or five people who are insanely good at all the different pieces and then I have copy. And then there's a couple of people, but like that's all we've done. I've got four or five people who are insanely good

at all the different pieces. And then I have an idea and then we go through and then we launch it. And then people, how do you launch so many funnels so often? It's like, I got the best team in the world. Like we could do agency work, but at this point I make more do my own things. So I'll do my own work.

Yeah, you have your own internal agency. You're the only client. I can make as many ideas as I want. I know it's really fun when we start working on projects together. It was really fun to kind of see your internal processes because I'm like, oh yeah, like my agency does that. His agency does this.

It's like fun to see. But the thing that I loved was you just have like a, it's just like a submit form. It's just a magic form. Anything you want. Like if you want to funnel a video, a design, anything. Magic goes off. Literally like I kept asking questions because I'd be like, okay, because again, for my agency, I'm like, I know I wear this hat, but like this person wears this, this,

this. I'm like, who do I talk to? And they're like, just put it in the form, just put it in the form. And it comes right out. And I'd be like, okay, we need video for this. Who do we ask? Put it in the form. I'm like, great.

And then you're like, but it's so beautiful. It just like shows you how an agency can work. Like you genuinely are so removed from the entire process. But I think the beautiful thing about it is you're wearing the right hat. And for me, I kind of like to be involved in the process, so I still want to wear this hat and this hat and anyway, but I just think that's the beautiful thing too is you can, it's just a lever you can pull. If you only want to do this on the weekends or before work or while your kids are napping,

like because there's low hanging fruit, you can still make money and it doesn't require a lot of time. Like you can still play. Whereas if you want to make this a full-blown career where you're like, oh, I'm here and I'm managing all these people, like you can have a million dollar a year agency. And anyway, that's just what I love. Again, the game is accessible to anyone if you understand the patterns involved so that you can reach the appropriate level fruit,

I guess you could say. That was fun. Hey, this is Russell Brunson, and I wanna jump in really quick to share with you a new assessment I found out that is insanely cool. You guys know I'm obsessed with personality profiles and assessments, but this one is different because not only does it help you understand yourself,

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See app for details. So, again, this is like, I think the coolest career side hustle, whatever it might be. We had someone on the first VIP day who was like, I signed up this, I wanna do this as a side hustle. Like, I think this could be my career, right? Yes, exactly. Yes.

Yes, if you can make 500 bucks on a weekend, you can make 500 bucks a day, you know, or whatever the numbers are, like if you just, if you put the energy and effort into weekend, you can make 500 bucks a day, or whatever the numbers are, like if you put the energy and effort into it. Okay, the next set of things I wanna ask you about around this, because I know that there's the two sides of it, right, like can I do the actual funnels? The second is like, how do I find people to be clients?

Like, and so I love your ideas on, and we're gonna have to go super deep, but some ideas like, how can someone find clients who are looking for the stuff so they can take those two things and match them together? Yeah, and I just have to say, for all of my analytical logical friends who are like me, this is the scariest part, but it's only scary again

when you don't understand the pattern. And for me, whenever I feel afraid about something, it's just like, oh, I don't know the plan. I don't know how I'm gonna do it. But once you're like, oh, that's how it works, then it's like, oh, I don't know the plan. I don't know how I'm gonna do it. But once you're like, oh, that's how it works, then it's like, oh, it's just a numbers game. It's all the steps. And so for me, when I was like,

okay, well, what actually is selling? Because I think selling can get a bad rap because people are slimy about it, right? They trick you into buying something that you don't want, or they convince you that you have a problem that you don't. It can get really slimy really fast. But when I think selling is done right, it means that somebody has a pain and you provide

the remedy and both parties are happy at the end because the person with pain no longer has pain and the person with the remedy got compensated. And so for me, when I'm a funnel builder, what does a funnel builder do? They build sales funnels, funnels that bring sales. So that's the remedy, I bring sales. So when I'm looking for clients, what I'm actually doing is I'm looking, that's the remedy. I bring sales. So when I'm looking for clients, what I'm actually doing is I'm looking for somebody in pain. And what is the specific pain I'm looking for? I'm looking for somebody that needs sales. And the fun part is that

that's everybody in business. Is there any company that doesn't need more sales? Exactly. But the reality is that also everybody needs food. But depending on when you catch them in the day, somebody needs food more than other people need food, right? So if you haven't eaten for 24 hours, that person is in a lot more pain than somebody who's like, well, yeah, I need food later, but I just had breakfast, right? And so what I like to do is, yes, every business needs more sales, but there are some people

that are in more pain than others. And the most beautiful thing is that people are typically loud about their pain and they gather. Like, it's like scientifically proven that people with common interests and common pain gather together and like not just on person but primarily online. And so like you, for example, you're like an amazing person that has gathered people of similar interests and therefore produce similar pains, right? And you're like, build funnels online business, blah, blah, blah, but because you're new and they don't know, right? It's like, oh, I built a funnel, but, blah, blah, but because you're new and they don't know, right?

It's like, oh, I built a funnel, but, dah, dah, dah. It didn't pan out the way that I want because they didn't understand the strategy or the asset or whatever. And so what I like to do is I literally just like to go to the ClickFunnels group or online business groups or internet marketing groups, whether on Facebook or I follow YouTube people, look for people in the comments or Instagram or whatever. But I literally just go and people will ask questions all the time. Like literally we just did this three day selling challenge.

Every example I gave was an example that happened from the day or the day before. Like I just literally went to the group and I said, oh, look it, here's a person in pain. Like look at the timestamp. It happened four hours ago, right? Or like, oh, look it, this happened this morning. It happened at 827. And literally like what pain looks like is people are saying like, hey, I'm trying to get this funnel working, it's not working or I want to sell this product

but I don't know how to start or blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And all of a sudden you're just looking, you're like, ding, ding, ding, that is a person in the pain that I can solve. Like that's a person that needs more sales and I know I have the skill set to build something that can bring themselves. And so when I think about it that way, just like a very logical approach, it's not like, oh, like I got to go find, it's not like, oh, I got to go find somebody to give me money, blah, blah.

It's like, no, I'm just going to go find somebody in pain and I'm going to be a homie about it and I'm not going to let them wither on the side of the road. I know how to help them. So I'm going to help them and that can become the game. And so it really becomes, I think so often we think like, well, what do I say in the sales pitch? How does it work? And yes, there's like an art and a science to selling. But at the end of the day, you're just a person

helping a person. And so like going into the comments and saying like, Hey, you need help. I know exactly what you need. I'm an expert funnel builder. Do you want to hop on a 15 minute call or Hey, I'm going to slide into your DMS. I'm in chat. Sometimes I don't even get on a call with them. I'm like, let me just help you in the DMS. We can just take care of this right now. But, but what I like to always say to my students is this concept like be 10% better. You have to be amazingly better, but like be 10% better. So if like, let's say that there's like four people bidding for the attention of this person that needs help with their funnel, what happens if you send a video, like just like a selfie video

that's 15 seconds long rather than like, Hey, so what do you need help with? Dot, dot, dot. Right? Like if you're like, Hey, Sally, I saw your post. I'm Catherine. Like so excited for you. You're selling this product. Awesome. It seems like you're kind of having a little bit of like a little bit of trouble. I kind of checked out your stuff. I actually have a really clear idea of what you might need to do looking forward. Do you want to hop on a call right now?

And then all of a sudden she sees that I'm not going to like abduct her. No stranger danger, right? Like I'm normal. I like invested in her stuff and that's that. And it took me three extra minutes. Then the guy that slid into her DMs was like, Hey, I can help dot dot dot, you know, like, I was like, I don't know, do I want to get on call with you? Anyway, so that's what I love. And so I think for anybody freaking out just like realize it's not like some magic words to say. It's just can you

find somebody in pain and then just offer them the solution to the pain and be a normal human about it. I think that's it. One of my favorite example, you know, Ben Moot, obviously, Ben's on my team. Ben, I eventually stole him and now he's like my right-hand man working on projects all the time. But before that, he was doing funnel, like he was building funnels for other people. And I asked him his process and it was so cool. He's like, everyone hears you talk about funnel hacking and everyone understands it, but no

one wants to do it. So he's like, I would offer to do funnel hacking for people. So I charged, I can't remember, 300 bucks. And so like someone was like trying to, anyone ever seen a funnel that does this? Or, you know, like they ask those questions. And he's like, hey, 300 bucks, I'll go funnel hack 10 funnels for you.

And so they like basically the ride and check 300 bucks. He goes out there, he go find 10 funnels, same process we talked about, right? Go start searching for things, find them, go through the process, funnel hack them. So he'd take these 10 funnels and then send them back to the person. Like, here's the 10 funnels.

And by the way, if I was you based on these 10, I would do a funnel like this and you map out, here's the strategy I would do. Here you go. And then the person's like, well, that's insane, that's amazing. And then the next question is like, cool. So you can do that on your own if you want,

you can hire me, I can do that for you. And like 95% of people who like, he did the funnel build for, hired him to do the thing later. Cause like, you know about this market, you understand like you see the vision like this is it like you understand the strategy. This is insane. And it was the most simple, like non-threatening thing. Like I'll do the work and you can do funnel hatch people for free. Just like I'm going to go do it for you for free. This is what you know, just give them the recommendation. Like you putting forth

that effort is what gets the person like I'm, I can hire the 14 people that slid in my DMS, you know, saying, saying can I help you, sir? Versus, you know, the person who went out there and like did the data research and showed them like on a silver platter, this is what I would do if I was you and like, please help me. Well, and that's what I think about clients too. I think we like, like, or even in selling,

launching a product, we build it up to be so much more than it is. And it's so interesting, even like, like with getting healthier, losing weight, like everybody actually knows what to do. What do you do? You move more, you eat less or eat better, right? Like that, at the end of the Like everybody actually knows what to do. What do you do? You move more and you eat less or eat better, right? Like at the end of the day, that's what it is.

And there's always gonna be circumstances like some people have crazy hormones or whatever, but like at the end of the day, like basically everyone knows at least how to- You burn more calories than you eat and you're probably gonna lose weight. Yeah, like we know that. And yet we still hire coaches over and over

and over and over again. Why? Because we're just like afraid. We're like afraid to take the steps or we need accountability to take the steps. And I think about that so often with selling too. Like everybody knows what to do actually. Like I don't know how to find clients. You do know how to find clients. Like just go find somebody that's hurting and help them. But we're almost too afraid to do it. And I always, I always wonder, like sometimes I'll make deals

with myself. I had talked about this the other day with somebody with, when you were there, but I was like, like you're not allowed to freak out and tell dot dot dot. Where I'll be like, oh, what if the assignment isn't to make money? What if the assignment is more something I can control where I'm like, oh, I actually have to have conversations with 100 people and try to pitch 100 people on selling my service. And only after 100 people am I able to freak out. But like the assignment isn't to make money right now, the assignment is just to go talk to 100 people and that is something I can control and if money happens, great.

Like if it doesn't happen, whatever. But like I learned this phase honestly from dating, I learned it from my friend. And she called it like, she called it the two week data, two to, two week data, where she's like, you know, sometimes you're dating a guy and you're like, I don't know and like she's like, I just got so overwhelmed. Some days I'd be like, oh, I love him. The next day I'd be like, he'sweek data, where she's like, you know, sometimes you're dating a guy and you're like, I don't know. And like, she's like, I just got so overwhelmed.

Some days I'd be like, oh, I love him. The next day I'd be like, he's so annoying, right? And she goes, I call it two-week data. And she goes, for two weeks, I'm not allowed to do anything. I'm not allowed to feel happy, sad, whatever. It's just data acquisition. So if I have a great day on Monday with him, but he's kind of a loser on Tuesday, whatever, data, you know?

And then at the end of the two weeks, I can look at all the data and be like, oh, it's like overwhelmingly positive or overwhelmingly negative. And therefore I have enough data to make my decision. I was like, that's so smart. She's telling the guy before the day, you got two weeks, then we'll decide if we're going to go on a third day. I know, but I'm like, that's kind of genius. So I started implementing those principles. You're not allowed to freak out until dot dot dot, right? And so it's like, okay, like before I call quits or sleep on this opportunity or decide to have a major freak out or whatever,

it's two week data or whatever. So I'll be like, okay, until I pitch this X amount of times, it's just data. And even though it's hard and my nature is to attach, because you put so much into it, right? My nature is to attach my worth sometimes to that funnel. So if that funnel does great, I'm incredible. That funnel does terrible. It's like, I've never done anything good in my life, you know? But when I like make these

contracts for myself, it just like, because so much of the game of creation, like not just funnels, but creating anything in general, there's like a physical production part to it. And then there's also this emotional component to it. Like so many people have the skills to be incredible entrepreneurs and funnel builders, but they lack the emotional fortitude to actually start. Or there's a lot of people that are like, I can do anything, but they never learn the skill set. And so they kind of suck too, right?

And it requires both. And I am definitely, I think, more steady in my skills. I think my technical skills are pretty great because I've done so many reps. And sometimes I just get scared and I get nervous and I just like want to do such a good job for people and my family that like I like can get quickly critical and like blah blah blah and all these different things and so I just have to make deals with myself to be like, Catherine, remember it's all just a game and like it's all just to help you with this. So like don't waste energy on that so you're not allowed to freak out and tell dot dot

dot. So that might be something too, of like people like considering this game. Before you even learn the skill set, just go try to sell 10 people. If somebody says yes, then you'd be like, okay, well, I guess I'll go learn it now. Right? Like, but I think that I think we build it up so much in our head, because we're trying to make it something more than it is. Or if they say no to me, they're they say no to this deal, they're saying no to me. When in reality, what's actually happening? We're trying to help people in pain be out of pain. And that's all it is.

And so anyway, so if any free, anybody freaks out like me, just, I literally like write contracts and sign them with myself. You're not allowed to freak out and tell it that that dot. I know. And you want to know what's so interesting is when I get to the end of those contracts, um, whether it goes good or bad, I'm not freaking out because it becomes a very logical non-emotional decision because I have data sets before me. The emotion happens in the peaks and the valleys, you know what I mean? You get a bunch of those and it starts usually, it flattens out to the point where you're

like, now you need to make a decision that's not so scary. Well, you know what's interesting? So, McCall and Tanner, my brother and sister-in-law, they came and spoke a few days at your selling online event. And so they came back, I was like, tell me everything, you know, because I always want to hear you sign the scenes. I just love everything you guys do. And so they're telling me and they're like, and they said, you want to know one of my

favorite things that I learned from Russell? And I was like, what? And you even said like this new selling online event is like one of the best, highest converting funnels you've had in a while. Like it's just crushing it. And so you sell this product at the end and it was actually my brother that told me this. He's like, man, I just loved it. And he goes, because like all of a sudden they pitch and they come off and like it kind

of took a while for like the first five sales to come through. And he's like, and when Russell heard that, it wasn't like, oh shoot, only five sales. It was just like, okay. And then they just moved on. And then like you don't freak out, right? And you like continued through the portion of it and you like had day two and day three or whatever afterwards and like the followup sequences.

And then it ends up becoming like one of your highest converting funnels. But like there was an opportunity for you to be like, oh, like those first few sales didn't come in as quickly as we wanted to like, I'm calling quits, you guys suck. Like, this is so bad, we got to rewrite the whole thing. But like, we don't even like play it out long enough to see if it actually works and turns. And then it turns out to be like one of the best converting funnels. And so like Tanner McCall,

they just came back and they just realized that like, oh, like, like we didn't realize, like how much more steady we could be in this process, because it is so fun. Like it's so rad when you have like the table rush. it's so awesome when you're like, oh my gosh, like I sold out this thing before I even got off live. Like it's so fun. And also like people are people and sometimes people need time, whether to buy or whether you need time to learn how to do the skill. And then again, I just think there's just so much beauty and like allowing yourself

time. Don't pull the plug before you before you even give yourself a chance to to win. Yeah that's cool that's like got out of this that's fascinating. Okay so I know we're gonna be doing another podcast interview here in a little bit going deeper into traffic and joint ventures and partnerships and stuff but I want to kind of wrap up this one with obviously we've been here this whole week doing the selling selling sales funnels challenge. I can't.

You're better. You go for the tongue twister. I just say cell funnels. Like that's cell phones and everyone's like, okay, cool. I'm like, no, no, like cell funnels. Like, yeah, we are selling the funnels for a decade. So it's not a big deal. I know it's a big deal because SELL, SELL, S-A-L-E, cells.

Anyway, so the best or the worst idea we had, if the name changes, you guys will see. I thought it was clever, but I don't know. Very clever. So the sell sells follow challenge and I'm assuming hopefully we'll have an evergreen version up in the future So if you someone goes to sell funnels comm se ll oh, sorry sell funnels challenge comm Yeah, se ll funnels challenge comm we may have an evergreen version But for those who don't we do we did during the challenge made an Offer for somebody to come into like our training, our certification program, which is kind of cool. Behind the scenes, obviously you had your design hacking program that you sold for years, four, five, six years now, and had tons of success helping people do that.

Level number one, which is like finding a client, do the build that's, you know, anywhere from a hundred bucks to a couple thousand bucks and you took that program which was fun is during those who who watched it live you went and showed like 20 minutes of screenshots like this guy's first challenge was like a hundred dollars five hundred thousand like this guy made thirty four dollars his first funnel like all sorts of things there's this like person after person right so we took your program which has been insanely helpful for people in our clickfunnels community forever and we took the clicknels certification program which dives deeper into like the strategy and all kind of stuff and we smoosh them together into the coolest training program ever for someone

who wants to learn how to like become a funnel builder to be certified to be able to do this. I love you just I don't know we have tons of time but briefly talk about what the program is specifically kind of the timeline because it's different than like you're gonna learn a bunch of stuff this is like here's the sprint we're going on to get you to this result this result this result I love you kind of talk about what that looks like from the outside. Yeah. Well at the end of the day People opt in to sell sales funnels because they want to make money And so what we did I I flew to boys we all work together and we said, okay There has to be three primary objectives that they determine all if anything that happens in this program, it's to make the funnel builder money, it's to make their clients

money in both as quickly as possible. And so if there's anything in this program that does not directly contribute to it, it's fluff. No matter how cool it is. And I had some cool stuff that- And he did. And I did tell him kindly, I was like, Russell, it's amazing. It's not for this program. I'm like, just sell to them. Make a payment ready for this. You have to understand the different way our brains work. So as you guys may or may not know, in the last 18 months I've bought in, or sorry, last two years, I bought 18,000 books.

I'm building a library. I just want to have every piece of resource known to man at my fingertips in case I ever want it, even though I'll probably never read most of them, right? And a lot of my programs that way, it's like you have every resource you ever need. And when you first came, you're like, wow, are people stressed out? I'm like, I don't, I wouldn't be stressed out. And you're like, my brain does not look like a work like a library. Mine works like a, like a path. That means that a path, right? Step by step. Like, let's take your library and let's plug just the pieces someone needs to go from step one to result step. And then

from that result, the next result. Yeah. Because well, because I have like a very OCD checklist brain. So like I think and like my husband is a lot more like you, which stresses me out. Like he could take a book and he'll just like skim through it and like read a few pages and then he puts it back on the shelf. And like my brain is like, ah, what do you mean? Like I'm like, you didn't read the book. Like I'm like for my board to fill check mark red for me, I'm like, I read the cover, I read the acknowledgments.

If there's an appendix, I like to go through the appendix. It's like, it's not done, right? And so like for better or worse, that is how my brain works. So when I go into a program that has like, oh, and you also get access to this and this and this, like I feel like I have to do it all before I can start. And so for me, I'm like, oh no, like please don't give it to me.

Like I'm here because I want this result and I don't want anything else. I've taught people and other programs and stuff how to actually create a course and the prompt I always give them, and this is exactly the prompt that we went through for this, is for this new Funnel Builder coaching and certification program, is I say, I want you to imagine that you and your customer or whoever's going through the program with you, you're locked in a room. You're not allowed to eat, you're not allowed to sleep, you're not allowed to go to the bathroom, you're not allowed to leave until they achieve the result. How are you going to get it

for them? And at that point, you're not like, you know what, this would be a cool like extra training, like go watch out in the corner for a few hours. He was like, I need a sandwich. I'm starving, like get the job done. Right. And so like, that's what I always like to think of, like you, you will be locked in that room and eventually you will die if you don't eat and if you don't sleep and then you're gonna have to go to the bathroom, the corner is gonna be ugly, right? So like, how quickly can we get you to that result? And that's just like how I want programs to be made. So that's how I make them myself. And I think a lot of people are like that because there is so much information online. And if you find a guru like you, who like actually

knows what they're doing, it can be be really wonderful but sometimes it really can be super overwhelming and I actually think that the best programs have both where you have like a very clear path and then if you want to dive deeper you want to become an expert in certain things or you have like some like crazy extenuating circumstances it's like great you got the library in the back and that's what this new program is and so it just takes you assuming you know exactly nothing and you've made exactly zero dollars online, but you want to make money selling sales funnels online, it takes you from step zero to step one, to

step two, to step three. And so what we focus on is, okay, great, let's get you money as quickly as possible. And so rather than like learn the whole gamut of I need to learn design and then assets and then strategy and then optimization, and then we'll go try and make money a lot like how colleges like go through four years and then good luck, we learn a micro skill and then we monet then strategy and then optimization and then we'll go try and make money. A lot like how colleges like go through four years and then good luck. We learn a micro skill and then we monetize the skill. And then we learn a micro skill and then monetize, learn micro.

And so like in my old program that we incorporated into here, people started what's called like the money by the weekend challenge, because it's just like, okay, well, I just, I don't have to learn the whole thing. I just need to learn a little thing. And like, can I, by the time I buy this on a Thursday to the time Sunday ends, like, can I go monetize this? And people do, it's like amazing. So that's what it looks like. So we like first teach

you all through design, like let's teach you how to design, let's teach you how to monetize design. And then you can decide at that point, do I want to build a full business out of this or do you want to learn the next step? And so if you do, then we teach you strategy and assets is where we dive really deep into your concepts and we, but we put them in chronological orders. We take your beautiful library brain and for me little OCD people. Yes, exactly. So like you guys know, like I'm like going through his content. I'm like, okay, from minute 12 minutes and 14 seconds to minute 15 minutes and 11 seconds. I'm like, don't clip that.

That's what we need. What about the other three hours? They're so fun to talk about. And I'm like, it's in the library. That's where it is. You don't need it. Okay, because we're locked in the room. Anyway, but then we teach you strategy and assets and then we monetize it.

And then if you want to learn more, we teach you how to optimize, right? Like tweak this funnel headline here, blah, blah, and then monetize it. And then if you want to learn more, we teach you how to optimize, right? Like tweak this funnel, headline here, blah, blah, and then monetize it. And then if you want to scale it, we teach you the principles of building an agency so that you can scale and go from there. And so that's what I love about this new program is that people do get results really quickly because it's learn, monetize, learn, monetize, learn, monetize, rather than like learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, and then like good luck monetizing, hope it works out for you. It's like, no, like the whole point is to make you, yeah, to get almost, it's almost like you get paid to learn. It's like, no, like the whole point is to make you, yeah, to get almost, it's also you get paid to learn. It's like really, really amazing. So it's amazing program.

It's so fun. It's been like so fun kind of morphing both of our frameworks and strategies together in like a really chronological order. It's been like so fun. I'm proud of it because it's like something that like one of my sons, he's like, he's like, I think I could be a funnel builder. Like this is something I can plug my kids into. If, if I had a friend or family member that lost their job, like I would buy this for them. Like if you know, because again, it's not something that's like a lot of programs I have is like, you're going to learn how to become an expert and how to write, you know, that takes a lot of time.

There's a lot of things that have to happen for you to be able to do this. This is like you're leveraging other people's stuff. You're coming in and just being that key integral part that makes it go live for them. Because you don't have to be the face of it. You don't have to provide a product like Like you let other people provide the product. You just build a selling machine. And so it really is amazing. So we honestly have had 10 year olds go in Stephanie

Dove Blake's, you've talked about her. She's like really being in community. Her kids have gone through it. Like it's been like a really beautiful thing, but because it is step by step, whether you are a 10 year old or in your sixties or seventies or you've never done anything before or homeless, like every single one of those

avatars have been through the program and made money with it because it's just like don't try to learn the whole thing just learn step one. Which badge do people usually make their first dollar buy? So we like broke up the program right and so like from um so again because I'm trying to get us out of the room as quickly as possible so we don't die. I like broke everything up into micro challenges and so people on average are 15 to 20 hours away from their first sale and so that that's over the course of like six little challenges. So some people could do it in 15 to 20 hours straight or you can do over a week or over a month but like depending how much time you put into is that's where most people are ahead getting their first sale. In the 15 to 20 hour mark and that's what I really love like when we were going through the challenge today, I was like, like the average college

degree takes you 1800 to 2400 hours and that's over four years. And you don't get paid. You're not getting paid. And even at the end, you might not get paid. Right. But like what we're saying is not only are you learning a skill set, you're actually monetizing the skill set in 15 to 20 hours. And people are like, that seems too good to be true.

What does this look like? And like what I have to tell them is because it's a step by step process, it's because there's such high demand. And it's because we're not trying to learn the whole gamut we're doing the lowest hanging fruit. And again, like some people don't believe me. So what I would do is I would like, I like one of the biggest ways I sold this product was through joint ventures. So I love this. I would like go into people's groups, I would pitch the product. And then what I would do is me and my assistants assistants we would wait and we'd like get the email list of everybody that joined and we'd like stalk them in my Facebook group over two weeks and

To get to like earn a badge it have to like take a screenshot and post in the group And so then what I do is I'd go back into that same group I pitched in two weeks later and I would literally just be like here's the 46 people Yeah, so I wouldn't even agree like once I learned this I I'd never agree to do a joint venture unless I'd let me come do a repitch because we do 25 to 100% of sales. Same thing, because we'd just go, we'd stalk people and in two weeks time they'd already get results and then we'd come back in and we'd be like the only reason we could think that you didn't join this program is because you thought it'd be too good to be true and

be like you want to see what your own kin, what your own people have done in the last two weeks and we'd just be like they did this, they did this, this person made money, they did this, they did this, they did this, this person made money, they did this, they did this, they did this. Like, do you believe me? Like, they did this, they did this. And be like, okay, like you're, whoever your group, they're so awesome. They decide to open it up again. So three more days and we do again, like 25 to a hundred percent of original sales.

But that is also the beauty of like, of this skill set that, but the reason I tell that story is just to show that when you, when you break down process, I mean, you break down the skill of funnel building into design, into assets, into strategy, into optimization, into agency, rather than trying to learn the whole thing at once, you can monetize from the very beginning and get paid to learn more and learn more

and learn more as you grow your business. The coolest thing ever. So I'm pumped for everyone who's on the challenge and a chance to go for the last three days through this. We made a special offer. Most people jumped in and are going on that path, which is really cool. For people on the podcast, they had a chance to go flash three days through this. We made a special offer. Most people jumped in there going on that path, which is really cool for people on the podcast. Obviously, number one, hopefully have an evergreen version of the challenge. If you go to sell

funnels challenge, I'll call me able to see that in the near future. But if you're like, this sounds like the thing for me, I want to see my career, I want to go dive in, I want to go through that. I want to get on the path. Do you remember the link? Oh, you bet. It's in grants tattooed on my arm. No, just kidding. funnelbuilder.

www.funnelbuilders.com. All in. All in. Okay. So grab it. If you're homelessness in your car, pull over real quick, grab a pad of paper and say one more time. funnelbuilders.com.

All in. All in. So check it out there. And there's a spot where you can go and you can get started and jump into the path. Hang out with Russell strategies mixed with my OCD brain. I mean, what could be better? Come on, guys, come on. And if you're an adult and you're like,

I got a kid who's useless, like plug him into the program. Like, I'm just kidding. But if you have somebody struggling, like this is like, you just talked about your dad, you're working with your dad, your dad's like, we need this. And he plugged you into our first version of this program. It was helped you go through this, right? Like, so for any of you guys, it's like,

it could be for you, it could be for spouse, it could be for a kid, like being it for Christmas or birthday present for somebody. Like, this could be their future, this could be through this, right? So for any of you guys, it could be for you, it could be for spouse, it could be for a kid, like being it for a Christmas or birthday present for somebody, this could be their future, this could be their career, right? You can go give them a college education and spend what, 60 grand a semester at Duke or whatever, or Princeton,

or for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction, I give them this thing that within 20 hours they can make their first sale and then keep going and keep going and growing into it. And this could be the coolest career in the world. This career opens up so many cool doors. Like that's how I met Tony Robbins because of the skillsets. How I met most of the famous people I know is because of this skill set.

Because they had a product but they needed a funnel to sell it, right? I remember when Tony Robbins launched his book, he hadn't launched a book in 20 years. It was the his first finance book. And so, you know, Tony's a busy guy. I'd met him a couple of times before, I know him great. And I just sent him a text message, "'Dude, you're launching a book. Do you have a book funnel?

What's a book funnel?' And you're like, ding, ding, ding. The next thing I know, Tony Robbins calls me on the phone. "'Hey, you need a book funnel. What's a book funnel? This is how it works.' He's like, what would it take to build one? I'm like, well, I have the software,

I'm gonna click files to build funnels, but I need to film you. So, doing all the sales videos. So can we hang out? Can I film you?' I was like, can I come spend a day at your house and film you so doing all the sales videos so can we hang out? Can I film you? I was like can I come spend a day at your house and film you? He's like nope. I'm like okay well how can I film you?

He's like I'm speaking in Las Vegas next week I can give you an hour in a hotel room. I was like done and a week later I'm in a hotel room filming Tony Robbins. We put together a book funnel, launched on ClickFunnels. He loved the platform like at the hotel we showed him the whole thing. He loved it. Next one I can have you speak. It's just like crazy because I was like, he needs a book funnel, I know how to build a book funnel.

Hey man, you have a book funnel? Boom, opens huge door, right? Like anyway, so it'll change your life. You had the skill sets, the number one thing you all needed to learn and master. So anyway, thank you for hanging out with me. Well, thanks for introducing me to this world. What a beautiful place it is.

So awesome. It's so much fun. So all right, everyone who's been listening at home, hope you guys enjoyed this episode. If you do and you're ready to get started, go to funnelbuilders.com slash all in. Um, or if you want to watch the whole challenge, hopefully I have an evergreen version up soon. Go to sell S a L L cell funnels challenge dot com. There you go. All right. Thanks, Catherine. Appreciate you. See you all soon.