Marketplace - Who’s gonna win an Oscar this year?

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

From “Oppenheimer” to “Poor Things,” 2023 boasted a bevy of Oscar-buzzworthy films. The ceremony isn’t till Sunday, but today  we asked New York Times critic at large Wesley Morris for his best actor, actress and picture picks. He also talked about the life of a critic and how he goes about preparing to review a movie. Plus, testing is becoming more common in hiring.

In which we talk about getting a job, we talk about going to the movies, and we talk about when going to the movies is your job. From American Public Media, this is Marketplace. In Los Angeles, I'm Kyle Risdahl. Monday, today, March the 4th. Good as always to have you along, everybody. Today being the 4th, makes Friday the 8th, which according to the handy-dandy calendar provided to us by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, means we are going to get the February unemployment report at the end of the week. The advanced tea leaf reading should be starting any minute now, not here, of course.

But we are going to start with the labor market today. Who gets hired and how and why? Artificial intelligence is, as you know, changing that whole hiring process. It's making it easier for job seekers to tailor their resumes and harder for recruiters to get a real understanding of who a candidate really might be. There have, of course, been for a very long time, ways for would-be employers to predict how a job applicant might do, screening assessments they're called. And they are pretty common. But they're also a bit more fraught here in this era of AI.

Marketplace's Megan McCarty Carino gets us going. Welcome to the gamified phase of the modern job hunting process. This game is called Robot Inspector. Welcome to the gamified phase of the modern job hunting process. This game is called Robot Inspector. Josh Millett is the founder and CEO of the assessment platform Criteria. He's walking me through a five-minute pre-employment test. It's divided into three different games with 40 questions each. Here we go. It's going to show me a whole sequence of robots.

And again, what we're doing is answering whether we think they're the same or whether they're different. The game shows us a pair of cute cartoon robot dogs. They both have googly light bulb eyes and tails that look like vintage joysticks. But one has a line of orange bolts on its legs. And we have only six seconds for each one. Oh, shoot. Feel free to yell out answers. Different. Different. Right, right. The tails. Yep. Now the robots are coming rapid fire, and the differences are getting harder to spot.

Oh, that one's got ears. I should note that the fictitious job we're applying for is not robot inspector. This game can be used for applicants in engineering, accounting, nursing, IT support. This is measuring the very sort of narrow scale of attention to detail. It's one of dozens of different assessments Criteria offers employers looking for more than a CV and cover letter. How candidates are viewed is moving from being kind of a rear view, like, hey, what's on your resume and what have you done, versus like, show me what you can do. Lindsay Zulaga is the chief data scientist at another assessment platform, HireVue. It uses artificial intelligence to assess one-way video interviews of applicants, answering questions like, how would you deal with a difficult customer or adapt to a last-minute

change? We train those algorithms on thousands and thousands of answers that have been rated by humans with a rubric, kind of what a high, medium, low answer looks like. But AI trained on historic hiring data can amplify historic biases, like women being less likely to be hired as engineers or men as nurses. Zulaga says HireVue's algorithms are regularly audited and adjusted for bias, something now required for AI hiring systems under a New York City law. We're trying to improve upon a really broken thing, and there may be missteps and there may be imperfections along the way. Because without more objective measures, employers can fall back on their own biases,

like focusing on college degrees, says Audrey McHale at the nonprofit Opportunity at Work. We ask executives, think about the top three to five skills that you deploy every day in your job. Where did you gain those skills? And pretty much universally, they'll say, oh, I learned them on the job. And not in college. More than 60 percent of U.S. workers don't have four-year degrees. She says with proper guardrails to ensure fairness and accuracy, pre-employment assessments could open doors for a lot of people, as long as they don't become an added barrier. When you are used to being blocked at every turn in your career journey, things that we might not fully appreciate the impact of can be incredibly demoralizing and act as disincentives. She says employers should keep tests simple, say what they're for, and give feedback about how applicants can improve.

And they should be short, or applicants should be compensated for their time. Back in the criteria assessment, I've gone from the robot game to a new one. It's called words of a feather. If the words have a similar meaning, you click same. If the words have the opposite or different meaning, click different. Boredom and tedium appropriately placed at the end of the assessment. Which is only five minutes long. I'm Megan McCarty Carino for Marketplace.

Speaking of boredom and tedium, quick. What's 71 pages long, chock full of monetary policy, and honestly, a little bit dry. If you guessed the Federal Reserve's semi-annual monetary policy report to Congress, go straight to the head of the class. It came out on Friday. Fed Chair Jay Powell is going to be up on Capitol Hill Wednesday and Thursday taking questions about it. We will, of course, let you know what he says. Wall Street on this Monday in early March, not a whole lot of enthusiasm, let's just say.

We'll have the details when we do the numbers. For approximately the umpteenth time on this program, immigration is a labor market story. A couple of three weeks ago, the Congressional Budget Office reported that higher rates of immigration through 2026 will add an average of about two-tenths of one percentage point to economic growth every year. And a paper a couple of years ago from economists at MIT, the University of Pennsylvania, and Northwestern, also the Census Bureau, showed that immigrants are 80% more likely to start a business than are native-born individuals. To wit, today's installment of our series, My Economy. My name is Augustin Ayunzima.

I am a photographer based in Manchester, New Hampshire. to New Hampshire. So my family and I moved to the United States in New Hampshire in 2007. I am originally from Burundi, East Africa. I always had a passion for photography at such a young age. When I went to college, that's when my love for photography really grew.

And I was actually the sports photographer for four years of my time at King's State College. I had to work two jobs just to be able to buy a camera lens because it's so expensive. I started my photography business in 2014. I currently have a full-time job right now. My goal is to definitely make photography as a full income source. Lately, it has been very challenging to be able to find clients. And I think after COVID, a lot of things changed, especially for small business owners.

Different ways that I had to be creative to be able to gain new clients was to give a half price for any new client. Most people will say, then how are you actually making profits from it? But I think sometimes you kind of have to go beyond for your clients. One of my favorite partnerships that I had with a nonprofit, I was able to capture moments

of the event that they were giving out computers and laptops and iPods to the underserved students. I was taking photos of these kids and one of the kids, she walked up to me and told me that one day they want to be a photographer. And it was something that gave me a motivation about seeing this kid. You know, I was like, wow, thank you. You know, I'm lots of words, honestly. I was like, wow, thank you. I'm lots of words, honestly. My goal is to definitely have a studio in my community. You know, I can have something that I can invite every kid out there

who wants to become a photographer or just who wants to learn about the photography business. That's definitely my goal. Augustine Nyonzuma, snapping photos up in Manchester, New Hampshire. We cannot do this series without you, no matter what you do, no matter where you are. So please, tell us about what's happening

in your economy, would you? There's a place you can do that at marketplace.org slash my economy. Coming up. I just really want to try to tell a story about the thing that I'm writing about. Everybody's a critic, right? Well, that guy, he really is. First, though, let's do the numbers. Dow Industrials off 97 points today, a quarter percent, 38,989. The Nasdaq dropped 67 points, about four-tenths percent, 16,207.

The S&P 500 dipped six points, about one-tenth percent, 51 and 30. Apple declined two and a half percent today after the European Union fined the company almost $2 billion for anti-competitive behavior toward music streaming rivals. The European Competition Commissioner estimated the fine represents about a half of 1% of Apple's global turnover. Competitors Spotify cheered the ruling and Spotify stock rose 2.4%. JetBlue and Spirit Airlines have called off their plans to merge a couple of months after a judge blocked the deal due to concerns it would be anti-competitive. JetBlue rocketed up about four and three tenths percent. Spirit plunged 10.8 percent.

You're listening to Marketplace. This is Marketplace. I'm Kai Risdahl. We're doing an every now and then series on the program, revisiting the conversations that I've had with all kinds of people, writers, filmmakers, artists, people we just wanted to hear more from. In that vein, and given that the Oscars are on Sunday, we decided to give Wesley Morris a call. He's a critic at large at the New York Times, also the co-host of the podcast Still Processing. We have been talking to Wesley for years about movies, about takes of his on movies, hot and otherwise? I don't mind the superhero franchise in theory.

Yeah, huh. But in reality, what it's doing is it's ruining this whole other aspect of moviegoing for me, which is the experience of movie stars, which I love. I love movie stars. So when we got him on the phone this time, we started where we almost always do. Just because you're a movie guy, we're going to start with movies. What do you like this year?

I want the top three. Picture, actor, and actress. Of things that, like, my preference? You're asking me my preference. You're asking me what I think is going to happen. What do you think ought to win? Well, that's, i think is gonna happen what do you think ought to win well that's yeah i want to know what you think ought to win um actor um i don't know i feel like of those five people it really would come down for me to uh paul giamatti or bradley cooper um yeah there's something going on that is way beneath the surface

of both what bradley cooper is doing in maestro and what paul giamatti is doing in the holdovers um and i kind of like that sort of acting where i think you know the thing about giamatti is the the writing facilitates that depth so that, you know, there is material there to bespeak all of the sort of pain and embarrassment and humiliation and disappointment that that character is dealing with. But the film itself is a comedy that needs him to operate at a particular frequency for its entire length. It's so interesting to hear you explain that because I watched that movie, The Holdovers, and I came out of it and I was like, yeah, I like that movie. And you've got this whole subtext that doesn't even occur to me. Okay. I really enjoyed Paul Giamatti. Here's my thing about it. It seems like that was just a classic Paul Giamatti role. It just, you know, you knew

it was Paul Giamatti, right? That was the whole thing. So I liked it. Here's the thing with Bradley Cooper and Maestro. While I think he did a spectacular job, I found the physical resemblance, props to the makeup people, I found the physical resemblance almost distracting. Okay. I don't know.

You give me the layered analysis because that's my superficial take. I mean, I seem to be one of the few people who feels this way about this movie, but i don't think the movie is really that much about leonard bernstein oh yeah i think that the what bradley cooper is doing in maestro it is a performance of great weightlessness right this guy is almost literally running everywhere. He's always in motion. He's always, and that's a conductor's job.

All the deep stuff in this movie happens when he's just sitting there and taking something. There's a scene where Carey Mulligan and where- Carey Mulligan plays Bernstein's wife, we should say. Right. So the Bernsteins are essentially having an argument in one of the rooms in their great house. Yes. And the house is on Central Park.

And up Central Park West comes the parade. The Thanksgiving Day parade. Yeah. And he's sitting there and just like being told the truth. And just like being told the truth and he has to literally sit in it long enough for it to register what it is she is saying to him. And it's kind of shocking the speech that she gives because in these movies, the wife of a of a closeted gay person or a semi closeted gay person, however you want to think about what Leonard Bernstein is at that moment. and however you want to think about what Lerner Bernstein is at that moment, if you think about the person he's playing and the fact that nobody speaks to him this way and she's standing over him,

she's conducting him at that point. It's just such a great... I'm also describing good directing here, but I'm also thinking about what it is that he has to give you as an actor to believe that he may or may not have received the message. And, you know, at the end of the scene, here comes Snoopy. And it's just I don't know.

Right. I know. I think I think Cillian Murphy is going to win because. Do you? I do. Well, I mean, I I'm bad at these things. Kai, you've had literally your job. How can you be bad at it? My job is not to predict the doings of 10,000 people.

That's true. Actress, with a little bit of brevity here, please. Okay, I'll go quick. There's one winner here. Her name is Emma Stone. You think? Oh, man. Oh, my God.

There's so much going on in that performance from the standpoint of the body, language. And, you know, it's a funny performance it also at every point is so technically sound but i also stopped noticing how technically sound it was and was just focused on the the adventure and and good time this woman is having coming into her humanness last thing and then i have actual substantive stuff i want to talk to you about um who do you what do you like for best picture oh it's oppenheimer city baby you think oh my god yeah sorry is that just like is that just like inertia or this you know the fact that it came as part of the barbie he. I mean. No, because if that were the case, Barbie should be winning the Oscar, not Oppenheimer.

But I also think that there, I mean, it's a serious movie about a serious subject. It is almost too serious in a lot of ways. They like its seriousness. I also think that they like that Christopher Nolan made a thing they can finally give an Academy Award to, including giving one to him. All right. But before we go further down the other category rabbit hole, here's what I want to touch on. And this goes back to what we were talking about with the Bernstein movie, I think. When you go in to watch a movie and look, I know you've been doing this like for a career for 15 or 20 years. And so I'm asking you to sum it up in a couple of minutes, but when you go in to watch

a movie, see a movie, um, how do you do it? What, right. I mean, does that make any sense? Right. What are you thinking when you go to see a movie? Cause when I go to see a movie, I'm like, all right, I'm going to go see a movie. You're a professional. How do you go in the door? With a notebook and a pen. Do you? I mean, that's for starters. I think, I mean, mostly I just want to feel something. I want to have a thought about something. I want to be surprised in some way or gratified.

I don't know. There's like a whole range of experiences I'd like to have as a moviegoer. Because at the end of the day, Kai, I'm going in the same way you're going in. It's just I am tasked with having to publish a response to my experience. And that's, you know, I mean, I have to sort of be prepared to do that in some way. The notebook really helps. It also really helps to have an open mind because you just never know. Related question. And here's why we've had you on after such a long period.

So we're going back and we're talking to people that I've talked about or to in the past and just running extended versions of those interviews because you guys have interesting things to say. And I say this as a way to set up two things. One is, if you have Barry Jenkins' phone number, give him a call because we're trying to get him on. But he apparently isn't... Well, his people tell us he's in a writing phase now, so he's gone silent. Oh, good. That's great for all of us. That is good news, right? Barry Jenkins and Moonlight and Underground Railroad and all that jazz. So we're going to get him eventually. I have confidence because we've had him

in the past. But here's what that made me think of with you. And I went back and I read some of the recent stuff you've written about J-Lo and all kinds of other things. And this is related to how do you go watch a movie. Your writing is it has been described as electric. In fact, in, in your own newspaper of record. Um, and I don't argue with that at all. It is absorbing and it is, it is propulsive. Here's what I want to know. You are a critic

at large for the New York times. You have a voice, you have a platform, you have, I forget how many Pulitzer Prizes. Okay, two. Here's what I want to know. When you sit down to write, whether it's about a movie, about this one or J-Lo or whatever, or about culture, which is part of your remit, right? And we've talked about that. Justice, racial equity, all those things. How do you approach the blank page?

Oh, my God. I usually I usually know. I mean, I'm lucky I don't sit there and well, that's not true. Sometimes I do. I sit there and I hope for the best. I just start typing and it's just like every day, every day. I sit there and I hope for the best. I just start typing and it's just like, every day, every day. We're not using that. I mean, my time when I die,

not that anybody's really going to think to do this, but like if anybody really wants to get an insight into a writer's soul, you know, in the, in this part of the 21st century, just, just try to get access to their time machine. If they're, you're,

they're a Mac user, there's going to be some drafts in there that are going to blow your mind know i'm glad i'm sure tony was like when tony morrison died i'm sure she's like i wrote it all down it's all in a notebook and lives at princeton and you will never see all my drafts but i mean not that i'm tony morrison just to be clear but i mean i think that for any writer who has to write on a deadline and sort of record an experience that other people are probably going to have, there's a relativity at work here. There's a subjectivity at work here. There is a factual accuracy component. But mostly I just really want to try to tell a story about the thing that I'm writing about. And often it's just about the most prominent feeling about it. And sometimes you can do that by setting the scene of the movie itself to take some examples from the thing. I mean, I like a nice concrete example as a place to start or a story, you know, that I'm or the problem in the culture or like the joy of the culture, this cultural object is giving lots of us.

Last thing and then we both have to go. And hopefully this one is an easy one for you. What is the job of a critic in this culture today, do you think? job of a critic in this culture today do you think um i think it's mostly to facilitate people's understanding that it's okay to to have strong feelings about things that aren't also categorical um to to be ambivalent is okay One of the ways in which I think about this job is basically to furnish people a way to look at an experience they either already have had or are probably going to have. providing a particular kind of service and i've always resisted the idea of criticism as like a as a service mostly because i was rejecting that feeling in the way that that roger ebert and gene siskel had had used it which is by using their thumbs essentially um not only that's not all they did by the way they're also great writers about the movies um but the reduction was the thing i was thinking about and in terms of um the service criticism provides but really the service is is is really like a means to to think and to look anew wesley morris is uh a critic at large at the new york times also

with jenna wortham uh the co-host of a podcast called Still Processing. Wesley, thank you so much. It's really good to talk to you. Hi. I'll come on anytime. It's great to talk to you. I know. We'll call you sooner. It won't be another four years.

All right. All right. Be good. Okay, talk to you later. Bye. See ya. This final note on the way out saw this on Axios today of interest, perhaps, to high school seniors and their families. Even as there are increasing concerns among those seniors and their parents over whether a four-year college degree is worth it. The numbers say a four-year college degree is indeed worth it.

Numbers from the New York Fed, by the way. In 2023, recent college graduates, that's 22 to 27-year-olds, working full-time made $24,000 more a year than 22 to 27-year-olds with only a high school degree. Here's the kicker. The wage gap is only increasing. Back in 1990, it was $15,000 a year. Our daily production team includes Andy Corbin, Elise Hassan, Richard Cunningham, Maria Hollenhorst, Sarah Leeson, Sean McHenry, and Sophia Terenzio. I'm Kyle Risdell. We will see you tomorrow, everybody. This is APM.

All over the country. We need to improve reading in Wisconsin. Schools are changing the way they teach reading. I'm calling for a renewed focus on literacy. We have gotten this wrong in New York and all across the nation. And it's happening because of a podcast. I think your podcast has changed my life. And I'm going to share this podcast with everyone I meet.

Sold a Story investigates how teaching kids to read went wrong. New episodes of Sold a Story are available now.